Episode 494 | D-Dot and Tracey Lee Bring The Law and Disorder

00:00:00
Speaker 1: No Willian, no doctor, welcome back. We uh we lost our dear brother Maul to Iceman. He is not here with us.

00:00:42
Speaker 2: Prayers up.

00:00:48
Speaker 1: Maras and I are here, and we have also two people that I consider absolute fucking legends, and just by proxy through Guru, we are all family. I am here with the legendary d Dot and Tracy Lee outside crush off an album, Big Class. Where do we want to begin? Because I know both you guys have.

00:01:13
Speaker 2: A lot to say.

00:01:14
Speaker 3: I can tell you where we can start at proxy? Can you talk to the people? Can you you know the definition of proxy? I'm playing. I'm playing. I'm playing.

00:01:23
Speaker 2: I know what it is. You don't like?

00:01:27
Speaker 4: You know, well, I ain't gonna say you don't like when we started using vocabulary.

00:01:31
Speaker 2: You know, he gets a little you know what is that? Even though I know what it is? I know, yeah, yeah, being the smartest.

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Speaker 5: I don't even know how we even linked up. How long ago it was. I know Guru initially introduced me and Tracy a long.

00:01:46
Speaker 2: Time ago and he was like, do you know this is? I was like, yeah, what fun? This is? Like?

00:01:51
Speaker 1: Yes, what's up? I can't remember how you're not connected? I can't either, yeah, I smoke, so I don't it's nicely, it's foggy at the maximum.

00:02:03
Speaker 2: I don't remember. But it's been years. How in years? How did you two connect? Who? Me and Trey? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh, Howard University's that's where everything started with where everything's done. What was in the water at that time with you guys, Guru and we you know, I'm sure puff will end up somewhere in the story, but we all got to focus on puffshit law.

00:02:23
Speaker 2: But what what was in the water in Howard at that time? The fountain of youth. It was a youth movement.

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Speaker 3: When I got there in nineteen eighty six, hip hop was you know, uh we had to wop ever being rock Kim, you know, it was, it was.

00:02:43
Speaker 2: It was special.

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Speaker 3: So and when I got to Howard University, it was a New York really a New York regional thing. It spread, obviously it was in other places, but New York was at the time we were ruling the dance hall.

00:02:58
Speaker 2: So if you were.

00:02:58
Speaker 3: From New York, then you had a little bit of extra cachet, you know what I'm saying. As far as that scene went, and So and me coming already being a rapper, coming on campus rapping to a certain degree, having all the tapes that were exclusive, the Kid Capris, the Brucey Be's and all these type of tapes, they were exclusives to the campus. So hip hop was it was like seed and you could just see the roots playing in it so firmly in the ground and getting ready to grow.

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Speaker 1: So was there three different movements where because we've seen photos of like Big Redman Pot everybody at Howard at that naughty by Nature out there was everyone moving within that what would be bad boy time?

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Speaker 5: Because I've talked with Guru about this as well.

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Speaker 1: He was like, yo, we were doing something completely separate, but we would still work with them at the same time.

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Speaker 5: Was that an actual movement with everyone that early?

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Speaker 2: Do you think Guru was much younger than me? Not much, but he was ninety He came in ninety two. Yeah, he was like four years after Yeah I was.

00:04:09
Speaker 3: I was there eighty six, So Gurus grus movement. Yeah, so his vision, even my.

00:04:13
Speaker 2: Movement was different than him. Yeah. I came two years after him. Yeah. Yeah, hip hop has changed that fast from eighty six to eighty eight. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: The artists that were coming in the style of rapping that was coming in. So by the time the ninety hit, we was in a whole nother you know area. So in eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight, there was a learning movement like we're listening and we're just all just absorbing this thing, like what is this. By the time Trey got there in eighty eight, me, Ron and and Harve and a little bit of puff. At the time, we moving towards what we've been hearing. Harve is rapping, I'm rapping. We already moving towards it. Probably like him when he got there in eighty eight. Of course he's rapping, but we focus on school. Yeah, we're here for school. So when he touches down, lo and behold for him, it's there. It's in his face, like, oh so if he had the bug, it was right there as soon as he touched down. Soon as he touched down, and was like, oh shit, they got mics.

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Speaker 2: In their hand.

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Speaker 4: And that's exactly what happened. Like, I don't mean to cut you off, exactly what happened. Because when I got to Howard, I have been trying to get a deal when I was in high school, you know, much like in eighty six, you know, that was a bit of a renaissance period. But then when I got there, I decided, you know what, I'm gonna just get my education, go ahead and become a sports broadcaster because that's another one of my passions, just sports in general. But I saw this guy Roman in front of this place we called Blackburn Center, which is like the central location of where everybody goes for you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean. You know all that, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: So I've been Howard homecoming times as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah right right, yeah, So when he talks about the bug, I immediately because it was right there. It's like, oh, I can't stop this ship now because it's here, you know what I mean. I thought it disappeared because we were going to be on a college campus.

00:06:11
Speaker 3: And we were in d C. And d C was a go go town, you know what I'm saying. So when I first got there, I had never been to DC. So when I got there, it was a black, black and he black town.

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Speaker 2: I loved it, but it was dungle doore everywhere you went.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't bad, but it was like I want now, you know, I want my hip hop. I need that. So the tapes became the records, the wax became like.

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Speaker 2: Gold and you had them, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, that was what was in the water.

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Speaker 1: Also at that time was the rich Porter Alpo thing with Howard and everything going on with.

00:06:48
Speaker 2: What was it Rafel Edmunds.

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Speaker 1: What was that energy like where music wasn't dominating. Who was controlling the area at the time more or less.

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Speaker 3: Well, they were there, music was you know, you know, you go to those clubs. It was just like being in the you know, you go to those clubs. It was just like being in a New York club. The drug dealers, the pretty girls, the people that was there. But they did mostly they heard the go go. Hip hop was like, you know, they throw it in there because it was popular, but it didn't take over the town yet. It wasn't a full takeover yet. So yeah, but at those times I lived right around the corner from them. To try to tell you, I lived right around the corner from right for em in Northeast. So the alley I lived in, my back alley was their back alley to their block.

00:07:35
Speaker 2: That's crazy, right.

00:07:36
Speaker 3: So and then I hooked up with I'm sure you heard of the Madness Connection. They were the clothing line right on Georgia Avenue. Shout out to my big brother Larry. He ran the Madness Connection and that was like the hub for unity, meaning go go hip hop artists.

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Speaker 2: He was one of those people that embraced it all he sold.

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Speaker 3: So I was able to go inside there. And now I'm learning that they just like us, like they like what we like. It's just this is their culture, you know what I mean. So the Madness Connection was a big part of DC's culture for us to see, like you said, what was in the water and see what how that water we can throw it on some seas and where it was going to go.

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Speaker 4: But also to bring it back to when I came in, just to show you the difference. Like let's just say he was and there's you know that the eighty six era and those people that came in there, and they were like the roots.

00:08:33
Speaker 2: So we began the trunk of the tree.

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Speaker 4: And I would say we were the beginning stages of a renaissance because you had like you know, Anthony Anderson there, you.

00:08:44
Speaker 2: Had Marlan Wings there.

00:08:46
Speaker 4: You had the group Shied there, you had Annanda Luis there, you had Taraji p Henson there, you had Mark Pitchteare you had all of these you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Started the Oka, Yeah, all the news, yes, and guests, all of them, the noontime guys that ended up going down South and doing all that stuff with them at the same time at the same time, puff me Harf Trey.

00:09:10
Speaker 2: So if you later yeah, so.

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Speaker 4: If you could just imagine that, you know what I'm saying, Like so in the entrepreneurial spirit, right, it was the entrepreneurial everybody had a quest, whatever that route was, they were going to make something of themselves and become that thing that people kind of reached for later on in lib Planet biggable planets at the same time.

00:09:36
Speaker 1: Right, I just feel like from eighty five to ninety five needs to be a doctor just on Howard University in itself where every everything you.

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Speaker 3: Got, Lawrence I forgot, were you guys there for bigs first performance?

00:09:55
Speaker 5: I was what please walk us through? That stepped over.

00:10:01
Speaker 2: Of them?

00:10:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was simple Howard University as a circuit.

00:10:04
Speaker 2: On hip hop, well, let's start there.

00:10:07
Speaker 3: When you're doing your promos that then you had to hit Howard at all the HBCUs Howard was the one you had to hit one.

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Speaker 2: It was in DC two.

00:10:17
Speaker 3: It was the most convergence of hip hop and an HBCU from all places. Yep, so and so we knew so and Big new that I went there, Puff went there.

00:10:28
Speaker 2: So we made a movie out of it.

00:10:30
Speaker 1: You know.

00:10:30
Speaker 3: We had cameras following us and all types of stuff went on stage. And that's when Howard first really started letting people perform on campus like that.

00:10:40
Speaker 2: So we were one of the first that they allowed for that to happen.

00:10:43
Speaker 1: What was one of your first memories of Big, like when y'all first connected.

00:10:48
Speaker 2: When I first met him.

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Speaker 3: The day I met him, I went to reach my hand out to shake your saint, saying, I know who you are, like how you just did with Trey you I watched your video music box.

00:10:57
Speaker 2: You know, I was trying to be humble and shit.

00:11:01
Speaker 3: You smoked like it was like you smoked. I was like, of course, and that was it. And then you know after why I didn't stay long because I was just there on some meeting. But after that, you know, I remember, Uh, he didn't necessarily ask for me, but I came one time and he was.

00:11:16
Speaker 2: Like, Yo, you ain't been around in a minute.

00:11:17
Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, you know, because at the time I was working, I had a job. I couldn't be at like them, up under them, So I was like, yea, I gotta come around when I can.

00:11:25
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, man, coach spent some time, man, fuck with you.

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Speaker 3: I knew a couple of old g's from around his way, So and then we just we just connected like that, smoking talking and you know, he liked the fact that I was kind of I kind of wasn't up under them, but when I came around, Puff showed me like a little bit different respect than people that work for him, you know what I'm saying.

00:11:44
Speaker 2: So yeah, we clicked instantly.

00:11:46
Speaker 1: Yeah gee, and like what were those sessions because we've seen docs and movies and everything where you know, they make Puff look like Morpheus and a VERSACEI shirt of certain sessions of like here you go, here's juicy, Like what were those early days of even before Hitman just putting together that first big project and what would become bad Boy in itself because the sound started with y'all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, my role at the time, I wasn't really involved with Ready to Die to that capacity.

00:12:24
Speaker 2: I was there, I was around, I was in sessions.

00:12:27
Speaker 3: I think everybody got to put in perspective that if you close your eyes and envisioned this session, there's Biggie, who's nineteen or twenty.

00:12:36
Speaker 2: There's Ce's who's fourteen or fifteen.

00:12:38
Speaker 3: There's a bunch of cats from Brooklyn around Big who've never even probably been in the studio that Big before.

00:12:43
Speaker 2: There's Puffy who.

00:12:44
Speaker 3: Has had a certain amount of time in the business, but not ten twenty years yet. And there's probably the producers, like the Pete Rocks, like the of the beginnings of what's the name.

00:12:56
Speaker 2: Track Medicines and then get credit for Juice.

00:13:00
Speaker 3: Beat, and all these other people were there, but at that time, nobody was you know, Quincy Jones.

00:13:08
Speaker 2: Nobody was the outs, you know.

00:13:11
Speaker 3: So I understand all their things, but I sit back and laugh because everybody was babies.

00:13:17
Speaker 2: Everybody was babies.

00:13:19
Speaker 3: So to act like, you know, Polk would have made a better record than Puff or Pete Rock would have made a better record, we don't know that. That's like arguing championships with Jordan and Pippen. We don't know what they would have did you know what I mean? I mean, we know what they did without each other. They didn't win, So we can honestly say that Puff's role in that was probably the most experienced in record making in that studio. So seeing him doing what he's done record making, it was record making. It wasn't rapping, it wasn't beat making. It was you know, take a song, an artist, a writer, a situation. He's able to cook it and making a nice meal. So at that moment he probably was the most experienced at that time, at twenty three, twenty four or twenty two whatever.

00:14:11
Speaker 2: How Oldie is so all of hate and all this? Who was supposed to do it?

00:14:16
Speaker 3: If y'a say, say yourself, if he wasn't doing it, then who would have did it?

00:14:22
Speaker 2: Did he form the Hitman? It was his idea? Okay, it was his idea? And what what was with?

00:14:28
Speaker 1: Because it was three off y'all told the right four it was I know more got at it at some point.

00:14:32
Speaker 3: At the initial initiue Hitman was four of us. It was myself, Stevie j Nasheemen wrongos. Yeah, Chucky was already by defaul his number one hitman because of the coming off Mary and the first thing. But at that time, Chucky had started Chuck Life. God bless Chuck. You know R and P R n P Chucky. He started Chuck Life Productions, so he was ready to start his vision. So he wasn't the main sauce anymore for Puff come ninety five ninety six years around. So Puff decided he needed to find a replacement for Chuck, which was Stevie, but not a replacement a bullpen play somebody else that can come in when Chuck ain't there, And Stevie was very talented instrumentals, if you will.

00:15:20
Speaker 2: Another musician.

00:15:21
Speaker 3: We needed a musician to make some of these other things come to life that sample producers couldn't do, and the musician may not have had the vision to do it.

00:15:30
Speaker 2: So again, all these haters.

00:15:33
Speaker 3: Have to understand what a producer is and not a beat maker. So Puffy was able to take musicians and say, play this bass over for me, so we can filter out the sample and have a more thicker base, and then it I can tell you, you know, I'm gonna skip a little bit just to give you that understanding. When we tried to clear hypnotize herb Apput initially said no. The cousin Randy Randy Badass, who was put co produce on it with him and was on the song. He heard it and convinced his cousin because he said, listen to what they did to it. They didn't just loop it.

00:16:09
Speaker 2: I never heard it.

00:16:09
Speaker 3: They put basslines on it, they played other chords on it, they took through and they put it throughout the whole song. So they took hours. But listen to what they built on it. So it's not totally just taking your creation, mister her you know, Alpera, God, thank you, but we added on to it, and that genius comes from the producer that can see the vision.

00:16:33
Speaker 1: It's funny mentioned that because just I think yesterday I got a story to tell by Big the original one came out It's elite, and then I didn't realize what Chucky had done to that recordactly was absolutely insane exactly.

00:16:47
Speaker 2: But it took Puff to say.

00:16:49
Speaker 1: It's usually the sample version sounds better, right, I got a story to tell. Version now to me, is better than the one that leaves like Chucky replayed that shit and made it ten no better than what it really was.

00:17:01
Speaker 3: Exactly, And that took the visionary of the producer to say this is what's needed in order for us to overcome this hurdle, which was we couldn't clear the sample. So most people would have just made a new tried something else, tried another sample, but it was so infectious to us as producers. Me and Puff sitting there, we can't. Let's just slide. So let's figure this out.

00:17:26
Speaker 2: D what we're gonna do? All right, Let's let's get Chucky see what he could do. Let's go.

00:17:31
Speaker 1: Was there immediate chemistry between the four y'all when Puff brought everyone together?

00:17:36
Speaker 2: Well?

00:17:37
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Me, Ron and Nash already knew each other. So Stevie was the new guy. So but I mean Stevie could he was he could play.

00:17:49
Speaker 2: I mean, he'll tell you twenty two you know what I'm saying.

00:17:52
Speaker 3: But initially when I met him, he was playing four, which was more than enough than what we needed.

00:17:58
Speaker 2: He probably played.

00:17:59
Speaker 3: More, but he was playing keys, drums and both guitars, you know what I'm saying.

00:18:04
Speaker 1: And not not to get off where we're at here, but the first day that Stevie j ended up on love and hip hop?

00:18:11
Speaker 2: What was your thought.

00:18:14
Speaker 1: The first day when he showed up and say, my name is Stevie jal to Loving hip Hop Atlanta to me, he's been that.

00:18:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:18:24
Speaker 3: I just laughed because I ended up managing him for a second when you know while he's doing that, so I know what he's doing. He's very calculated dude. He's a scorpio too, so let's not get that twisted. You know, very calculated dude. So it didn't surprise me at all. I already knew what the what the rainbow that he was looking for at the end of that one, the pot that he was looking for at the end of that rainbow.

00:18:44
Speaker 1: I've never met STEVJ, never been around him, nothing, but obviously I knew who he was because I'm a fucking nerd. So but I also watched Love of Hip Hop and I was sitting there with my girl at the time. I said, that has to be a different STVJ. That's not the same Stevie J from Hitman. I thought it was another Stevie Jack.

00:19:02
Speaker 3: It was the saying you know, actually you're you're right, but in the opposite. I wanted him to go in there and play instruments to show that part.

00:19:10
Speaker 2: They almost didn't.

00:19:11
Speaker 3: It was almost like they didn't want him to, but that it took it to a whole other level if they would have saw his him just you know what I'm saying, like you know what I mean, and he does it effortlessly. That's the that's the part, like it's like, wow.

00:19:26
Speaker 1: What's what's some of your favorite memories of the life after death sessions and putting that album together?

00:19:35
Speaker 2: Hmm skitch uh huh, skitch Nah, I mean the more John blazing that.

00:19:42
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:19:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:19:43
Speaker 3: The skits were fun most believe it or not, most of those skits were done when Biggie wasn't even in you know those skits where I'm laughing I'm saying, you know, get you all them type skits.

00:19:53
Speaker 2: Biggie was in l A doing those in his truck.

00:19:56
Speaker 3: Like like you know those phones that you have back in the day where it's like black and you could put if to put this, put the phone on speaker like office phones. It's just like this. We had the mic onto the phone. I'm on the phone with Big on this side. He's in the truck and his voice is coming through the speaker.

00:20:13
Speaker 2: We got the mic.

00:20:14
Speaker 3: Then I'm going to get you on the faith and I just bust out the affort like all the type of all the type of those were. Those were super funny, But I just think the freedom of.

00:20:27
Speaker 2: The free.

00:20:28
Speaker 3: For me, it was the freedom of being able to put my stamp there for me with a visionary that kind of gave the the outline but didn't box us in and allowed me and Big any other artist. The locks makes all of them to just say, go for yours. But I needed to hit this mark. I'm not gonna tell you how to hit the mark, but it got hit the mark. And that's kind of how anybody kind of wants to be coached, you know what I'm saying.

00:20:57
Speaker 2: I would think we're trying to get here.

00:20:58
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna take you step by step to get to it because I know you got some things, but the goal is to get here. So if you don't get there, then I'm gonna, you know, put some things and tell you signs of things that can help us get there.

00:21:10
Speaker 2: That's what his role was. People.

00:21:12
Speaker 4: And and if I recalled like because we had to listen to session at Daddy's house, you know what I'm saying, you know, drinking, and there's a lot of pictures out there with us in the studio drinking and shy and all some shit.

00:21:24
Speaker 2: But he was super proud of the of the end product.

00:21:28
Speaker 4: To me, that's the vibe that I got, you know what I'm saying, Like you know, because every time a song would go off, be like, Yo, trade what you think?

00:21:34
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying for another trade what you think?

00:21:37
Speaker 4: Like like he was really vested, you know what I'm saying in that in that project.

00:21:41
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

00:21:43
Speaker 1: Life after Death to me, you can make a case with all eyes on me as well. But I think it's the only classic double disc that exists in music history.

00:21:53
Speaker 2: Is Life After That.

00:21:54
Speaker 1: We think about that and it's there's not a skip on a double disc where I don't even know how you achieved something like that.

00:22:02
Speaker 2: Was outside of juicy.

00:22:03
Speaker 1: Most of Ready to Die was pretty fucking grimy, like it wasn't palatable.

00:22:08
Speaker 5: The way Life After Death merged both those change.

00:22:13
Speaker 1: Was that like intentional when you guys started that with big like, bro, we're going juicy all the way on this one.

00:22:23
Speaker 3: The album starts off with previously on Life After Previously, I'm ready to die.

00:22:29
Speaker 2: Because it was almost like.

00:22:35
Speaker 3: We bought it back to life like and usually when people come back to life, they have a new take on life.

00:22:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's coming off suicidal thoughts.

00:22:43
Speaker 2: Yeah right, that's what it's coming off of. So I wasn't in favor of the concept.

00:22:50
Speaker 3: You know, they knew that back then. That's that's been never been. I didn't go there in photo shoots. I didn't like all that cemetery shit. I was definitely not in favor of it at all. But you know, it wasn't my place at that time. So but I understood, and I understood the magnitude because I've said on other places we did that album.

00:23:12
Speaker 2: We storyboarded that album.

00:23:14
Speaker 3: So so what your comments are, it makes me feel great because that's what movie directors and producers and execuive producers want. We storyboard this thing because we wanted to have this impact, and Life After Death was storyboarded like a movie. Yeh, that's what I'm super proud of that, you know what I mean. And they got to hear it, that's the that's the beauty of it. He didn't die not hearing his finished product.

00:23:40
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I'm I can only imagine that's like really speaking words into existence. And I don't want to get too dark in that, but it's crazy that you thought that out the gate of like, I don't want to be part of something called life after death. Like unfortunately it manifested itself in that regard, but.

00:24:00
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be a part of it. I just conceptually, I just didn't think. You know, my mind doesn't go that dark. I guess that's what it is. Yeah, you know, I don't even talk death and all that. You know, I just don't speak it up.

00:24:13
Speaker 4: So but the records didn't even indicate such like you don't look at the album Puff and then you listen to the music.

00:24:19
Speaker 2: Again, that's purposeful.

00:24:20
Speaker 3: I'm sitting in there saying you ain't gonna have me talk, ain't gonna have me and making records like this. I mean, me and Big have had our back and forth about verses and songs and you know, nah, aside from Puff because nobody really wanted Puff in the studio because you know, he's a hands on person. So those moments you talked about, that was I was proud of when me and Big were able to just and I was able to say, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

00:24:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, where was a big actual mind that during the pock Then of course you got the ball of reasonable doubt and Shoul probably have two PACs whatever, but never got like a real I think a deal of bust rhymes.

00:25:02
Speaker 2: Ship leaked.

00:25:05
Speaker 1: That record is incredible and it's crazy that Big from Diamonds on my Neck was I think you can find it. It leaks and it gets deleted people listening, you can find it somewhere I think in the depths of the internet joint.

00:25:27
Speaker 3: So they came off the presses, I was like, oh lord, I have merced it.

00:25:32
Speaker 1: As cool as Big played a lot of that stuff of looking like he wasn't affected by any of it. I can't imagine that there wasn't conversations about everything that was going on.

00:25:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:42
Speaker 3: The story real quick is you know, back in the day's videos was getting announced. They came in the studio one day. We happened all being.

00:25:49
Speaker 2: There, you know, hit him up, that's coming on the TV.

00:25:53
Speaker 3: You know that's what you tuned in, you know what I mean, And he just was in there like, oh, Ship, the word is like that, Like we didn't know it was like that.

00:26:06
Speaker 2: It's like that.

00:26:08
Speaker 3: So of course first people heard the story about digg him up and all of this stuff, because that was a conversation you know what I'm saying, like, is he really dead now? Like we're gonna you know, like, but that was we weren't the antagonists. That's not our style. So our bigg's response was, Wow, I'm not like that. I gotta let this dude know that. That's not me, you know what I'm saying, Like, what's happening here? But this is a blood sport and I ain't no sucker and we ain't no suckers. So chess is chess, so we're gonna play chess. So we didn't I think was let's just beat him with hit records. We ain't gonna do all this. Let them do all that. Every time they turn around, bam boom boom, upper cut. You know what I'm saying, that's that was us.

00:26:55
Speaker 2: Fuck it.

00:26:56
Speaker 5: I cannot believe how mature Big was.

00:26:59
Speaker 2: He didn't want to be let's not get his twisted. He wasn't looking like gentlemen. Four year old.

00:27:03
Speaker 5: To have that reaction to that is admirable to be.

00:27:06
Speaker 2: The reaction was brit reaction was.

00:27:13
Speaker 3: Everybody, you know, he got gutter, he got d rock, he got banger, he got.

00:27:17
Speaker 2: All these dudes.

00:27:17
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, he got a ruger, he got all these people that ready to you know, but that ain't us overall. When remember there's a pot at the end of this thing, we kind of get to we still got a goal to achieve. And that's when a twenty four to twenty five, twenty six year old comes in. Twenty seven year olds come and say, I ain't come this far.

00:27:37
Speaker 2: To come this far?

00:27:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So think about it, we're all under thirty making these type of decisions that critics sit back and be looking at us like we were fifty year old presidents of companies.

00:27:50
Speaker 2: We're all in our twenties.

00:27:53
Speaker 3: Children children in the business, not children because we fathers. We we grown ass men. But these situations weren't how to business for dummies. We didn't have these books. We didn't have OG's guiding us like that in the community or in the business. So I hate when these dudes sit back with this criticism as if we were giving these books and given this law and given these commandments and we didn't follow them correctly. You know what I'm saying, that's that's that's that's so when a young lady asked what we want to talk about, we want to talk about hip hop's creation of folklore, hip hop's creation of opinions where they believe their opinion is so powerful that they start to believe it to be true. So who shatcha wasn't a group effort to citiz here said let's make this long ass five minute record about clock, Like, are you fucking serious?

00:28:58
Speaker 2: Five minutes? We're gonna get it, dude, five minutes. We're not doing that. Yeah, we're not doing that, So squash all that.

00:29:04
Speaker 3: So that's what I'm saying. These guys come in and it must have been or what if? And you know, and and I'll be like, yo, facts, if we just talked to facts, all this would be they would be boomed. So I mean, Big love Pop until it became time was evident that it was just a game we're in. So that's when you start realizing that these relationships are temporary, necessary and temporary.

00:29:33
Speaker 2: And it's outside.

00:29:35
Speaker 3: So like on our new album, we explained that because we had a moment and we decided that we couldn't let this game change some of the things that we went through that they had to have some meaning. So for Big, some of those moments had meaning because you hear Big daddy came talk about how when they brought him together, talk about moments when they were together. You know, he got stories about his wife, they made up stories, whatever the stories are, but you got to deal with that in real life. So why go through all that if the relationship ain't real?

00:30:08
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, right, So you know that that was kind of a do you feel like that it's been a bit exploited with everything that is now like it's it's become a whole genre in itself on YouTube when it comes with pop and big and yeah, because everybody they're like, they're interviewing random pedestrians that happened to be walking by that day at this point that are giving full narratives to what happened.

00:30:36
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, so at this point you can't change it. What I just am going to be totally against is when I hear someone trying to rewrite history.

00:30:46
Speaker 2: Yeah there wasn't even there, that wasn't even there.

00:30:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, That's when I step in and say, not that I'm the you know, I'm the history police or nothing like that, but if my legacy is attached to that and it starts to get a little tarnished when I try to keep my shit polished, and then I have to speak up. Yeah, and that's what my issue is with some of these stories. So Big love Park. He wanted it to work out. It didn't work out. Unfortunately, life took us on that crazy turn. Yeah, it was that Trey was there to with. You know, we were actually at the party that night.

00:31:24
Speaker 2: He was there too. I had left.

00:31:27
Speaker 4: We all left like together together, and I remember I recalled and basically we left.

00:31:33
Speaker 2: Big was right here.

00:31:34
Speaker 4: We both left out, and I was I was feeling kind of a I don't know what I was feeling, but it was just awkward. And he was like, yo, trade was the matter? I said, I don't know, man, I just don't feel He's like, no, chill, PLAYBOYD were about to go to the Playboard mansion. We was at the Hugh Hefner's joint right after that. You know what I'm saying, He goes to the right, I go to the left. Next thing I know, Mark Pritch gets a call two minutes later. You know what I'm saying, he got shot.

00:32:01
Speaker 1: What What did y'all do? Did y'all go right to the hospital? Yep, yep, right out shot.

00:32:06
Speaker 4: Matter of fact, I probably get because Mark went in and Mark came out with the news.

00:32:11
Speaker 3: First before it even hit the masses outside came out first through the side of the Yeah right, seeds ran out through the side ambalance entrant first right, screaming shirt offs, pulling the shirt up. Everybody in the front of the hospital's yeah, I just don't see so me and Chris Ladham was shot to seize on that side.

00:32:28
Speaker 2: Mark came with me and Mark walk front and.

00:32:30
Speaker 3: Then that's why that's when everybody knew crazy.

00:32:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's pick this up. Yeah, yeah, you got going real quick, pick this up. It was not you know, let's pick this up, No maul.

00:32:47
Speaker 1: Your family reached out to me over the weekend. They are very concerned. It was just just notified that you are overpaying for your wireless right now, and your family is very concerned because you could just unlock savings with twenty five dollars a month forever with Boost Mobile. It's a permanent price, it does not change, and your family.

00:33:05
Speaker 2: Is sick of this. I'll keep the same number. You can keep the.

00:33:07
Speaker 1: Same number, the same phone, and someone will come and just just do it for you. They could come right here. Yes, yes, so stop terrifying your family. I'm tired of getting these calls. They're concerned for you. This is an intervention.

00:33:17
Speaker 6: This is an intervention based on average annual single line payment of AT and T Verazon and T Mobile customers compared to swelve months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January twenty twenty six. For full off of details, visit boostmobile dot com.

00:33:34
Speaker 5: All right, coming off a very morbid part.

00:33:38
Speaker 7: Yeah, New York after Big did pass, Yeah, New York was in a very interesting place between Na's already being nas Hove, bubbling Wu tang, the lane was open.

00:33:54
Speaker 1: What was that like in ninety seven when it was wide open of who was going to be number one in New York City? I mean, that was the least They went right, went right to you. That was it started Volume one.

00:34:07
Speaker 2: That was the least of our thoughts.

00:34:08
Speaker 3: Our thoughts were the person who started this, which was Puff, was ready to quit. So you're a journalist, so you know back in the days the Puffs album originally was called one time it was called Hell Up in Harlem, and one time it was called a good Fellas. You never knew that the one I was like that shit ain't gonna work for me, you know what I'm saying.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: Why not?

00:34:31
Speaker 3: Because you know, reality is that's my friend always. But he wasn't a real rapp up, So for us to take the approach like this is going to be a statement, it was different. But he was ready to quit because it was just a lot his friend, you know. So that's when I came up with the title no Way Out. So we were already thinking about anybody else because there was there was no competition.

00:34:51
Speaker 2: Jay was still not yeah a reasonable doll, So like thirty thousand.

00:34:55
Speaker 3: We weren't anythinking and and Park was already gone, and no disrespect to anybody else, just there was an iconic level that they had achieved that it was going to take a lot.

00:35:08
Speaker 2: Nas is not like nas.

00:35:10
Speaker 3: Is one of those people you can't really put him in anybody's box because his stripes have been earned through the mud and and his his his general, his his admiralship is earned. It can't be taken away, it can't be boxed in. So there was enough nobody that we were concerned with. The calls came in because they knew that the sound.

00:35:36
Speaker 2: Was still happening as they were speaking.

00:35:40
Speaker 3: So even Buster Rohms came out with a record that had a similar bop and vibe to the Benjamin. It was dope separate, but in my humble opinion, it was in that in that vein.

00:35:54
Speaker 2: It had that boom.

00:35:56
Speaker 3: And then I was telling you earlier, we get the call from Rockefeller. Yeah, because there's a rush to get We want y'all sound. We don't know who's going to be the next, but we need that sound. So Rockefeller called they that Big died in March. Rockefeller's album that Volume one was out in December.

00:36:17
Speaker 1: So can you clear up if those were throwaway big beats? Sunshine City is Mine? Like where those throwaway big beats?

00:36:25
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's already what I was talking about. Where does the term throwaway come from? Since when does anybody throw away anything of value?

00:36:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's what I'm saying.

00:36:43
Speaker 3: When you guys make up terms and run with it, there's no imagine me saying, Yo, these is my throwaway beats?

00:36:53
Speaker 2: Right, throwaway beats. Now, I understand the concept.

00:36:56
Speaker 3: They might not sell as much as another one may sell, or I may give them to an artist that is not as hot as whatever, But there was no such thing as throwaway for nothing. First of all, Big was a custom fitted artists, meaning you could have played Big twenty beats. It don't mean they wasn't hot because Big ain't take them. It just means Big ain't feel them. Big didn't like the world is filled srange every time the Locks didn't like the Benjamin cringe. Now because the Locks didn't like it, it's a throw away beat.

00:37:32
Speaker 2: That's idiotic. And that's what I'm saying.

00:37:34
Speaker 3: The journalistic terms that people come up and run with is where I'm like, well, you're getting throw away.

00:37:40
Speaker 2: No, they were beats.

00:37:42
Speaker 3: It's like a thousand other beats that Primo Mayor came for Big, that Buck Wild might have played for Big and.

00:37:48
Speaker 2: He didn't like them.

00:37:49
Speaker 3: They don't become throwaway because Big didn't like them. Yeah, they become someone else's. So there was no such thing as throw away Bigs like, gonna use this for Big, but it wasn't hot enough to We'll give it to Jay Ship. Don't make no sense. It might have been Big didn't like it, or Puff didn't like it.

00:38:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, for what we were doing to fit the project, I mean for Volume one, like I always felt it, Volume one was the best representation of the hit Men. To me, I know that's like not a popular take, but if you go from the difference of a Sunshine to Stevie j doing Lucky Me to you doing where I'm From, that's the craziest range of musicality I've ever seen. Sunshine where I'm from. It was like, yeah, what dog, how do you do both of those things?

00:38:37
Speaker 2: And what did do?

00:38:38
Speaker 3: Didn't na do the one where he sold jokes to his moms. Uh, he's oh uh miss miss miss miss not missing me.

00:38:49
Speaker 5: You must love me, you must love me, you must love me.

00:38:51
Speaker 2: That was not seen to me Stories Volume one is I know he's high.

00:38:59
Speaker 1: You go through everything you guys did, would marry everything you guys did with with Big. But to me, after total ones, everything to me volume one is the quintessential. This is what the hit men are in the arrange. You must love me like that? That's even crazy. I don't even know that part like right for for for artists.

00:39:21
Speaker 3: That's not bad Boy, that's not directed by Puff. That's not y'all think it's programmed by Puff because he didn't do that in reality, but people think so.

00:39:31
Speaker 5: No, not even remotely close. But yeah, I'm it's still.

00:39:39
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just poshing iOS a classic but crazy.

00:39:43
Speaker 3: I don't really do list, but I've seen this out there, and what's crazy to me is one of the songs from off of Volume one is still one of his top five songs out of all them albums and blueprints and all that stuff. You're talking about Where I'm From Rolling Stone name did his number one? So on I to say is his, but he told me to my face he ain't did a show where he ain't did Where I'm from.

00:40:05
Speaker 2: You got it.

00:40:05
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this because you're sitting on the couch. That's my favorite hip hop. It's either Shook One's Part two or Where I'm From beat that are my favorite beats I've ever had done, my.

00:40:13
Speaker 2: Favorite j records Like it ain't even close. It ain't. It's the woman to beat.

00:40:17
Speaker 4: And I'm not just saying that because you're my man. But that ain't like out of all of the records that Jay got, and you got a lot of them, you gotta pluck through.

00:40:25
Speaker 1: That joint right then, Where I'm from? Did you have hope in mind when you were making that?

00:40:29
Speaker 2: Or No? That's my point.

00:40:32
Speaker 3: No, no, how we how was the beat when it was fresh off the Prusses. But it's it's we make our own Stanley Steamers. If I sat around and had to please another artist Palette, I would be broke.

00:40:54
Speaker 5: It's a bar.

00:40:56
Speaker 3: They have to get into our space. That's the relationship. I play you something, my vibration cues yours, and even if you're a rapper and you're dope, your vibration may cue me to make something, but you still gotta love it in.

00:41:14
Speaker 2: Order for it tom to come to fruition. That's real.

00:41:18
Speaker 3: I can't just make anything because I think Nahs is gonna like it. Yeah, and then you play it for him and he looks at you like that, ain't it so? No, I don't know producers that you know unless actually you're working on a project. Like if Justin Timberlake or Chris Brown or somebody came to me and said I won't work, then I'm doing my homework on those artists, and I'm probably gonna cater to that artist. But if I'm just like these average guys making beats and waking up and getting a new NPC sample and just making a beat, I'm sure.

00:41:47
Speaker 2: They're not saying this.

00:41:48
Speaker 3: Is for Drake and when I send it to him, he's gonna love it.

00:41:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:41:54
Speaker 3: No, I made this beat. Drake gets it, Jay gets it. Whoever gets it?

00:41:59
Speaker 2: It's are you? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.

00:42:04
Speaker 5: Did y'all think Jay was going to be what he was at that time?

00:42:09
Speaker 2: Yes? I did?

00:42:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I was around it. So his work, ethic, his study, you know, he studied. Come on, man, guys, just he just louck up his dudents. Just don't look up. They put in the work. Did you think I.

00:42:26
Speaker 2: Did you think? Well?

00:42:27
Speaker 1: I was six when reasonable talking about so I went back the first.

00:42:31
Speaker 2: The first J album I heard was like two old.

00:42:35
Speaker 1: The first J album Meyer was was Volume two and Jay was already not a star at that point. But yeah, he was Jay by the time by the time I heard that.

00:42:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, Volume two, Yeah he was he that that's Volume That's another thing.

00:42:49
Speaker 2: So how old were you when Volume one came out?

00:42:51
Speaker 1: I was seven? Okay, so yeah, ninety seven was Volume one? Right, So think about this, So think about this. How hard is it.

00:43:02
Speaker 3: To listen to albums that predated you or predated your ear for when you really became a fan. How can you honestly judge that album if you weren't in that moment of time. So I may have a love, I may have the love for Stevie Wonder's albums. I may think he's one of the greatest artists, which I do of all time. But my appreciation for Stevie will never be the same as my mother's. It will never be the same as somebody of when it impacted. Because music is the sign of the times, not of the future. In most cases, and nine times out of ten, music expresses the times that we are in. So if you catch on to an album ten years later and are able to criticize it and not able to put yourself in those times, is that criticism fear.

00:44:00
Speaker 1: So I agree with you, but I think that's the definition of timeless. I was not there. I was not there for a reasonable doubt, And this is kind of like my I almost sound like the old man get off my lawn in this regard, because I think that's what's lacking in music now that I don't think this is going to be Thomas. I was not there in nineteen ninety six when reasonable Doubt came out. But I can hear that and see the embodiment of genius and classic in it. I don't need to be there for that, because that's times I don't need to Marvin Gaye was going on, I don't need to be there to know this is but instill hitting my soul. So so with that said, I have, like you know, I was in my late teens early twenties during the blog era. There's certain mixtapes that hold near and dear to my heart. But if I played that for somebody that wasn't there for that, they'd laugh at me and go like, bro, you like this? Yeah, because I was there. You wasn't there, You don't know. Timeless to me is reasonable doubt. Timeless to me is life after death. I don't need to be there to understand how amazing this music.

00:45:07
Speaker 3: I didn't say understand it, I said critique it. See there's a difference someone from it.

00:45:13
Speaker 1: That's the difference. Like someone can critique the blog air shit if they wasn't there. It's cool, I get it. If you wasn't. There's little Wayne mixtapes that I know people are like, bro, you really like this?

00:45:22
Speaker 2: Years later?

00:45:23
Speaker 1: Of course I do because I was there. There's also timeless shit like what y'all did that? My daughter who's three years old when she's fifteen, when I play Hypnotize.

00:45:33
Speaker 2: She's gonna feel that like right.

00:45:36
Speaker 1: But if I play her a mixtape record from Big crit from the blog era, she'd be like, Dad, what are you blaming me?

00:45:40
Speaker 2: Right?

00:45:40
Speaker 1: Right?

00:45:40
Speaker 5: But that's the difference to me with Tom.

00:45:42
Speaker 2: Why can't you continue to dude?

00:45:44
Speaker 3: I'm not saying you can't critique it. I'm saying how you critique it is. So, for example, you can't compare Future in this moment in time to a classic made in the nineties for many reasons.

00:46:01
Speaker 2: But some of the critiques.

00:46:03
Speaker 3: That come based on what I hear, and I'm saying not everybody does it. I'm saying one technology changes everything. Some of these dudes are able to put themselves in your ear and in your faces more so.

00:46:18
Speaker 2: Than we were.

00:46:20
Speaker 3: So to even get one of our songs, you had to work at it, right. So if you critique in someone's album from back then, the work that went in to put a tape on that machine to get this sound that we wanted out of it pruscious to know that we only had even though it said forty eight, we could only really use forty six because we had to use one for sympthy, and you had to keep one away from the sympty, So we were putting three things on one track to make it sound a certain way.

00:46:53
Speaker 2: So the critique is like, huh, do y'all know.

00:46:56
Speaker 3: What we had to go through to get this song to this point for your Whereas these guys can go online and say, give me a beat that sounds like future or sounds like drake and it's pop up like a toaster.

00:47:09
Speaker 4: But isn't the end result the end result, like at the end of the day, regard of what the process was, the end result of the end result is dope or not?

00:47:19
Speaker 3: We don't what is the end result. So my question is what is dope? And who gets to critique the dopeness? And my thing is to your point and our future is not the example. But there's plenty of artists that would not be artists right now unless it was a lick. They realize you and I'm telling you you also get a fan base that does the same thing.

00:47:41
Speaker 1: They're not music fans. They just want to be heard and critique something. But I definitely everyone has a voice now, so you can critique something without listening to it at all. You're not even really a fan of music, you're a fan of critiquing, So.

00:47:57
Speaker 2: I think that's what I'm saying.

00:47:58
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying that I wouldn't even focus on that because those people wouldn't be speaking unless it was trendy together. They're not really critiquing, but you just want to.

00:48:09
Speaker 3: Speaking it because they're filling the spaces in that. Me and Trey talk about this all the time. If we were able to get around some of these blockages that are because of opportunity and technology, what you're asking for would probably filter through.

00:48:27
Speaker 2: But in order for people like us in our.

00:48:29
Speaker 3: Age, there's a whole wall of system that you have to go through simply because I can critique, so I will. And if you multiply that, and what's the word exponentially or exponentially exponentially, it's people like you said that could just wake up and say I don't like that, and here's why, And then there's a bunch of followers and people that will now jump on that train just because they can't.

00:48:59
Speaker 1: It's monetization because I can get paid by X right now by typing something out, and the most engagement is going to be focused from a hateful world it's negativity is going to spread way quicker than anything. And it's the same way with artists that makes shitty music. You wouldn't be an artist unless you knew it was a lick. You wouldn't be a critiquer unless you knew it was a lick. It's more a lick at that point.

00:49:22
Speaker 2: I get it.

00:49:23
Speaker 1: Even now, it's it's trendy to hate jay Z now, even when he's about to fund he's selling out Yankee stadiums three nights ye, And it's become trendy to hate on him because if I put up a tweet on X right now, that is your hoves of fucking rapist, terrible rapper.

00:49:42
Speaker 2: I can make money off that.

00:49:43
Speaker 4: But that, but that baffles me with I mean, you know, it's outside of music.

00:49:47
Speaker 2: Jalen hurts every blogger. Every you mentioned Jalen hurts.

00:49:53
Speaker 4: Your hits go up exponentially, you know what I'm saying, Or any type of hate towards Jalen like chance to that that that probably would never talk about him. He's always in the forefront of every.

00:50:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I Puff, if I spoke on Puff the way that other people did and went and told Derek Angeletti's stories Boom. I probably have seven point eight million follows right now. I probably you know what I'm saying. So that's what I mean. Like, the sensationalism of it is a little difficult to get around when you're trying to do what you're looking for and find timelessness in some of this. So it's almost like we talked about, is there ever going to be a hit record again?

00:50:40
Speaker 2: Can I call you hypocrite real quick? Yes?

00:50:43
Speaker 5: You and fifty invented this ship, invented what they hate.

00:50:47
Speaker 1: How to rob is the first troll that's ever existed.

00:50:55
Speaker 2: But it came with a disclaimer. But they don't hear that.

00:51:00
Speaker 3: They don't hear hear it this serious the disclaim them You know what I'm I can say. I went into it saying, Yo, this record is crazy, but this is what happens when we get high and when you broke. So we put a disclaimer on it and it was funny. So I do understand what you're saying. I'm joking to.

00:51:28
Speaker 2: Facetious, you know what I'm saying to you.

00:51:29
Speaker 3: Yes, some people and took it and ran with it because it's something that my og told me that he said in this business, there's almost a certain level of minimal minimum, minimal minimum consequences. Yeah, so some of these actions that happened became really big to us because there's much more crimes and much more hateful than things that have been done. And people didn't get punched in the faithful, people didn't get shot for.

00:51:55
Speaker 2: People didn't do this for so.

00:51:59
Speaker 3: That record to show, Wow, he could come out because all I got calls from, you know, God bless pun and Missy was a little upset and people were upset. So what you're gonna do about it? How upset are you? You weren't that upset because nothing happened in fifty as a result of it. The beef he got into some street other stuff had nothing to do with the records. And I knew from me being Derek Angeletti in the business, what you're gonna do to me?

00:52:23
Speaker 2: I wish the nigga would That's how I was feeling, you know what.

00:52:25
Speaker 3: I'm saying, Like it was like it was like so my point is my point of saying is we might initiated it, but we came and said we're keeping it within the realms of fun.

00:52:37
Speaker 2: But that's some of the dreams from from from big you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, it's just the same type.

00:52:42
Speaker 1: Of ultimate because I've seen, like some of the streamers that do the troll and shit from their their basement everything talk about like, well I learned from fifty.

00:52:52
Speaker 5: This has always been my difference with that.

00:52:54
Speaker 1: Yes, fifty is a troll, but fifty is also beefed with the craze easiest people in New York City his entire career and was outside and accessible.

00:53:04
Speaker 5: Anything Fifty said he had to deal with.

00:53:07
Speaker 2: I agree totally.

00:53:08
Speaker 1: Like that to me, that's not like I'm joking when I said it was trolling. But fifty went head to head with ship we won't even talk about on this podcast, Like he said something and was there to deal with the consequences of what the fuck he was talking about.

00:53:25
Speaker 2: And again nothing, fifty was.

00:53:27
Speaker 5: The first troll.

00:53:27
Speaker 2: He was a troll. He was outside, he was outside, you roll him behind the computer, you know.

00:53:33
Speaker 3: I agree totally. And nothing came to fist the cuffs. Nothing really, you know, it did a little bit here and there, but nothing to the point where you know, hip hop had to come.

00:53:42
Speaker 2: And say, we need to cut this out. This is just beyond we lose part we already lost, Biggie.

00:53:48
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, Like I think, I think there's just a level of entertainment that I wish everybody would embrace. And I wish that the hip hop purists would understand.

00:54:00
Speaker 2: That you're never going to get that.

00:54:02
Speaker 3: I know I'm never gonna get it, But it has to be said that they have to remove themselves from thinking that the game we are playing, that's a game, should have some keep it real rules to it.

00:54:19
Speaker 2: So that's the part of saying, I hear you business.

00:54:25
Speaker 3: There's a sector people that think that even though we don't even have an ounce of control of the game that we're playing, we signed contracts, we get in it, we do all of this stuff, and we want to create another set of rules for keep it real within this game. And when guys like us stepped out and said, we're not gonna be in your box with that underground, backpack purist shit, We're gonna try to go for the bread because that's what this business called.

00:54:54
Speaker 2: It is called the.

00:54:55
Speaker 3: Record making business, the song business. So why would I go into it and not want to sell the most music I possibly can't?

00:55:06
Speaker 2: That's idiotic and stupid.

00:55:08
Speaker 3: But these guys believe that we're supposed to keep it so real that I should damage my pockets to please a group of people.

00:55:19
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said it.

00:55:21
Speaker 3: That's the most dumbest And that's why when I have these conversations, would say, hip you gotta what's real hip hop?

00:55:27
Speaker 2: You know what real hip.

00:55:28
Speaker 3: Hop to me is it's like a jungle sometimes and make a wonder you want to stay there. So all those guys that scream real hip hop, those are the guys usually that are broke, didn't make it, they got some issues because it didn't happen.

00:55:44
Speaker 2: They're still wearing the same style of clothes they wore it when they were hot. Those are the guys that screamed that.

00:55:51
Speaker 3: Those are the guys I would never sell out them records and these records are not Yeah, how okay, then go through it in the train station.

00:56:00
Speaker 2: It really means that much to you. Don't try to get to get in the business. This means that much to you.

00:56:07
Speaker 3: Like do like the Israelites do, like the Pacific Jews or whatever, and they go out and they stand on the corner and they give the gospel. Don't make no money from it. Don't do merch. Those underground guys, I guarantee you. I bet a thousand dollars for anybody when they go on the road. They don't invite everybody to their room to read books. Let's find out what the new book is this week. Let's have a leadership meeting about what's happening in the black community. And I'm sitting there down in Memphis with all these country chicks. No, they fucking they drugs. They're doing drugs, They're doing all that shit. It's all of them guys that change their names and all this crazy shit. I've been looking at them like sucker, just posturing for whatever if it makes no sense.

00:57:07
Speaker 2: That's real.

00:57:08
Speaker 3: They fucking the bitches that got sneakers on fits baseball hats. They fucking just like us, them niggas. They sitting around trying to do what's the new booklest What were you reading this week?

00:57:23
Speaker 2: I was reading France Fan, What were you reading? They're not doing that.

00:57:28
Speaker 3: They make y'all think that they're so for our community, and they so that every day in their lives. It's fit try the better. The hip hop communities getting these dudes. It's crazy. Five baby, mothers just like the rest of us.

00:57:41
Speaker 2: For ship.

00:57:42
Speaker 4: Listen, man, what these niggas would Yeah, man, I think that was that was definitely a straight and they hit a couple of people.

00:57:50
Speaker 2: I hope it hits what spot. Just let hip hop be hip hop. It's it's it's vast the ray, It's.

00:57:58
Speaker 3: It's the United Colors of been in it been that way, big big what you pey? When dude said hip hop started when we were in the community, we were doing this, I like them to name five records from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty five that any positivity in it except for the.

00:58:14
Speaker 2: Message that's real. Five records.

00:58:17
Speaker 3: I know when that movement came when I was in Two Kings in the Spher ten years later. This hip hop didn't start off with nothing but being broke and talking about it, having skills and talking about it. I never heard Mo d make a positive record in my life. I never heard Busy be get up there and say to the bop and we need to stop.

00:58:38
Speaker 2: Shooting each other, let's go. I ain't never heard that ship.

00:58:45
Speaker 3: I heard I'm Getting Money is popping in Yeah.

00:58:49
Speaker 1: Harris one was volin yeah Yeah, And then all these guys talking about the eighties.

00:58:54
Speaker 3: Guys like the eighties guys rock him. What I recall I loved you know the guard is I love the God the Guard at Dollar signs on his own man chains. He was a fop per center. But you can't tell me he wasn't about.

00:59:11
Speaker 2: Getting money thinking of a master plan.

00:59:13
Speaker 1: It's with Eric b Okay, what was the name of the album?

00:59:20
Speaker 2: This ain't nothing but sweating side niggas talk about this real hip hop? What about E p m D. Their names was Eric in Parish baking word that the word hip hop worded. They were super hip hop. But they was trying to get paid. You got died in his bag, ladies and gentlemen, you got paid.

00:59:44
Speaker 3: There was never a moment in hip hop when nobody was trying.

00:59:48
Speaker 2: To get paid.

00:59:50
Speaker 3: Even in two Kings in the Cipher, we were making trying to make hit records.

00:59:55
Speaker 2: It wasn't all just we are neighbors, we are.

00:59:59
Speaker 3: It wasn't just that we had a record on our unquo with our neighbors. It wasn't just that.

01:00:04
Speaker 4: So man got a big long caddy, not like to bill written right on the side.

01:00:08
Speaker 2: To be re dressed to kill wright.

01:00:10
Speaker 3: So all of this hip hop was about positivity hip hop.

01:00:14
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't.

01:00:18
Speaker 3: We had one record that these guys made and all of a sudden we put the whole genre in the message, one record.

01:00:28
Speaker 2: That he didn't even write. Why is this?

01:00:30
Speaker 1: So?

01:00:30
Speaker 5: I was literally it was before you guys.

01:00:32
Speaker 1: Came on the phone with my man Jesse Boykins and we were joking about the the neo soul image of ship and I'm like, yo, these hip hop heads think slum Village is this positive ship?

01:00:43
Speaker 5: Jay Dillar starts off the first record, What's up with the three.

01:00:45
Speaker 1: Screw Man clip that.

01:00:53
Speaker 2: I'm just saying. I'm just saying, what my problem? Those are?

01:00:56
Speaker 1: My guys love? I've ever like pause, Jamie Ler sayo, what's up with the three?

01:01:03
Speaker 2: When the audiopogies come from?

01:01:05
Speaker 3: And that's from people sitting around creating their own thing and then running with it.

01:01:10
Speaker 2: You know.

01:01:11
Speaker 3: I'm from Brooklyn, New York from the seventies. I was twelve years old when Rappers Delight came out, so I'm fully aware of what it was, well, fully aware of the lyrics. I'm fully aware of what it was. So by the time all these other records came out, mind you, they were records out before rappers are like that was a commercial success. There was white boys rapping in seventy nine. There were records with white men doing hip hop and white women in seventy nine. You could look on the list when you look on the list of records that came out seventy nine and eighty. So by the time we get to eighty five eighty four, you got Slick Rick, you got ll you got run DMC rapping over rock records.

01:01:56
Speaker 2: How hip hop keep it real?

01:01:59
Speaker 3: Is this when one of the greatest acts of all time got seven records with rock beats under them, rock beats they wasn't around and that No, I'm just saying to you that just shows you the globalness of where we were going back then.

01:02:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure one. DMC didn't have a whole bunch of records of Kumbay.

01:02:20
Speaker 1: Y'all was trying to give Aerosmith, right, right, So I'm just saying MTV.

01:02:27
Speaker 2: They were trying to get the TV. The goal was.

01:02:29
Speaker 3: Always get money in hip hop from the time it started. Sylvia Robinson did not form The sugar Hill Game to be a gospel group at the at the at the b MB and back.

01:02:43
Speaker 2: And going to gospel. Gospel. That's not what she did, That's not what this was for. And she got ghost writers for it, right.

01:02:50
Speaker 3: So let's let's let's keep it one hundred. I don't understand all this.

01:02:56
Speaker 2: Let's keep it real. Let's go back to real hip hop.

01:02:59
Speaker 3: Now that yeah, which is what all bullsh the entire they ain't right now that ship. Who Let me ask you a question, and I want you keep it one hundred. Who got more white fans? Puffy or Wu Tang Wu tang Wang? Who's not even who would you consider more hip hop?

01:03:18
Speaker 2: White people love hip hop? I'm asking you who you would consider more Wu Tang or Puffy. You gotta think about that, not really who is it.

01:03:30
Speaker 6: I'm curious on Rory's answer because he's we talk about white people who like hip hop.

01:03:34
Speaker 2: That's why I got quiet. Oh you're saying that.

01:03:36
Speaker 5: Oh, I've been.

01:03:38
Speaker 1: Speaking for it for ten years and impartial to everything with Puff after that video, this and that, I've been one of the loudest advocates of Puff having the greatest ear next to Quincy Jones.

01:03:49
Speaker 2: I think I've heard you say that.

01:03:50
Speaker 3: I think Puff is I just said, if you ask the average hip hop, I.

01:03:54
Speaker 1: Can't who's hip hop embodies. If you were to look up hip hop in the fucking dictionary, puff like just say majority won a majority like the Yeah, the nerdy wipe Yeah, they would say not even nerdy.

01:04:07
Speaker 3: White people purist hip hop backpacks. When you say hip hop, you don't think Jermaine dupri or Puff Daddy when you say hip hop, when you say rat music to me, which is the same the same to you. But there's clearly a separation, as you can see. That's been one of our biggest things. It's clear separation between real hip hop and what the rest of you guys do.

01:04:32
Speaker 2: That's not us making that up. That's coming. You've heard that. So and so there's a line where it might say Wu.

01:04:41
Speaker 3: Tang is considered real hip hop, Puffy or the Jermaine's or the likes of a rat music because they make a certain type of record. And I'm saying hip hop is the time man hip hop has. All of that is hip hop. But there's been some type of separation. So for me, I wish somebody tell me that I ain't hip hop like but I'm.

01:05:11
Speaker 2: Saying to you, but it's been for you produced.

01:05:14
Speaker 3: But I'm saying it's been said simply because of the style of records that has been made and the way the raps go and who your audience is. So because if you target a certain audience that ain't hip.

01:05:27
Speaker 4: Hop is rappers, that light hip hop, absolutely hip hop, right, But because you know somebody took the baseline from Good Times, they'll probably say, oh no, that ain't hip hop.

01:05:37
Speaker 1: So I've had this conversation with Ninth Wonder and I've had the conversation with Fonse. They have a brilliant theory of where the split you guys are talking about happened. It happened with it was written and day Light Soul stakes is high, and everyone just went this way. You either went underground or you went that side.

01:05:57
Speaker 2: I tell you, that's that's howday Okay.

01:06:03
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's that's my point. Before that, it happened way before that.

01:06:07
Speaker 2: Okay.

01:06:07
Speaker 1: That's where they say that the whole split happened between the Underground and if you liked Flossy Ship it was it was due.

01:06:15
Speaker 3: Happened way before that. Happen Wait before that, it happened during my era. If I had to give an opinion on when it happened. It happened during my era when I was rapping, clear separation of positive rap, gangster rap. Day Last Soul is another one of those groups that, as great as they were and as great as they are, didn't dictate the direction of hip hop musically. The albums were great, but there's no second or third Day Lost, There's no repeat.

01:06:54
Speaker 1: Ironically, their biggest record would be considered not hip hop, which is what me myself and I why would that be considered that?

01:07:02
Speaker 2: That's more sellout me when I look at them.

01:07:10
Speaker 1: But they're considering real hip hop, but their biggest record would because they're not.

01:07:15
Speaker 3: My point is for them, nothing about them is any separation. They were the type of group that can do a to Z and it was hip hop, That's what I mean.

01:07:25
Speaker 2: So they didn't so so like.

01:07:29
Speaker 3: You had a comment about what's what's the name of the album jay Z's Volume one? It sounded bad boy ish or they're artists that sound you know, masish or locksish or.

01:07:45
Speaker 2: Couldn't duplicate day No show me? How how how do you duplicate that with? Who would watch? How? So they kind of boom and what's the other group you said, they said, uh, Nas, it was written and then day.

01:07:58
Speaker 3: That was just by the time it was written was out, which was ninety six, Okay, right by the time that happened, we had already uh crowned Nas. But again, NAS's albums, and I'm just speaking from a guy who was in the game at the time, weren't blueprints on how to make albums because he wasn't doing the universal Daylight thing, or the universal bad boy thing, or the universal Doctor Dre and Them thing. He tried it with If I Ruled the World.

01:08:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, but that was a nice point with the fans.

01:08:41
Speaker 1: The fans either went to Daylight, which then gets you into the slum village like that.

01:08:45
Speaker 5: Or dealer worlds, or you go with if I Rule the World, which.

01:08:48
Speaker 2: Then you go to im with Nas. And now you're back with Puff. Hate me.

01:08:51
Speaker 3: Now you're not back with Puff, You're back with the what we do. We're in the music business. You see what you just said. It almost seemed like Puff is the face for when you go commercial. Yeah, and I'm saying that's not the case. Puff was doing what Doctor Dre, what baby face with Princeton, Michael Johnson.

01:09:10
Speaker 2: We're all trying to go commercial.

01:09:12
Speaker 3: Why all of a sudden did he become the poster boy for commerciality.

01:09:17
Speaker 4: But then there were other splits involved in that too. It ain't just the Nia's way or the Daylight way. There was a West Coast sound, there was a down South sound, there was a there were many, but they all trying to make it That's what I'm saying. But there were many directions that didn't cause a split per se.

01:09:34
Speaker 2: Even then.

01:09:35
Speaker 1: It was just watching the California Love video with Pocking Dragon, right, does that look like trying to keep it real for it?

01:09:40
Speaker 2: No's they trying to sell fucking records record And.

01:09:43
Speaker 3: I don't understand why you signed to a label and theydn't want to tell everybody to keep it real, and you broke as hell. I don't even get it, So that didn't make sense to me. So I was never on that real hip hop. I don't even use that term real hip hop. I don't even know understand what that means. It's all hip hop, it's all birth from the same original birthplace, and it's gonna have his branches. Older cats ain't gonna like certain things, Younger cats ain't gonna like them certain things, and that should be more than okay, that should be more than okay, you know what I'm saying, but it's not for some people.

01:10:17
Speaker 2: They and then, like I said, you got these.

01:10:19
Speaker 3: Kids that are maybe in their twenties now and would actually say something about jay Z is ridiculous to me. It'd be like, you know Lebron, which he never did. Lebron can't never speak on Kareem.

01:10:35
Speaker 2: Abdul Jabal, doctor j Byrd.

01:10:38
Speaker 3: He can't ever say anything out of his mouth. He wasn't there. And they've earned their space in time. And if the generation after us would understand that there is no comparison where we didn't try to do that. We just tried to take with Kain and Rock Kim and KRS and LL and Slick and g Rapp was doing and make it better.

01:11:00
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. That's it.

01:11:02
Speaker 3: So these kids will evolve want to say dead kill y'all, like cut it off, y'all mean nothing. The foundation you standing on is what we built. So that's the mentality that throws me off a little bit about these critiques and about this thing.

01:11:22
Speaker 2: It's not just a critique, it's almost like.

01:11:24
Speaker 3: Go away, die, you meant nothing to this game were we already knew, and this is how it's going to go.

01:11:30
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01:12:55
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01:12:57
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01:13:02
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01:13:06
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01:13:19
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01:13:37
Speaker 2: The beard too though.

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01:13:38
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01:13:54
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01:13:55
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01:14:58
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, are you okay?

01:15:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're the.

01:15:03
Speaker 2: First person or maybe the second termed me a mentor.

01:15:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said that out of his mouth before though he has yeah, that you were mentor Okay, Well, I mean he did that bullshit. He said that the ghosts produced for you whatever the that was credit.

01:15:20
Speaker 2: That's another one of those terms. Yeah, and that that got made up.

01:15:23
Speaker 3: But the Kanye that I see now is a different Kanye. And what I mean by that is he's still He was genius when I met him in the making.

01:15:34
Speaker 2: So that's I didn't do that. I didn't mold that guy.

01:15:38
Speaker 3: The irony is when I met him, he was living in Chicago, he had his mother, His girlfriend's name was alexis my daughter's name was Alexis. His mother was a teacher. My mother was a teacher and a principal. We had so much in common. He's a Gemini, my wife was. I'm married to a Gemini. My daughter's a Gemini. So when I met him, he was hungry. He wanted to wrap. He had to go getters. He was pushing him and his boy, the tall one. I forgot his name. He was really tight. He had John Monopoly in the mix, but John Monopoly was kind of more like a road manager because Free and I were actually managing him. Yeah, he produced for Trade, so Trey was around me. Did two three songs on Trey's Life, I mean five that never got released.

01:16:22
Speaker 2: And he was hungry. He moved.

01:16:24
Speaker 3: You know the story, just real quick. He didn't move to Jersey for Rockefeller. If you watch the he moved because he wanted to be closer to me, because I was showing him how to make records, real records. And he said his dream was to be a hitman. And he I didn't manage him because I found him. I managed him because he asked Free.

01:16:43
Speaker 2: To find me.

01:16:45
Speaker 3: Because his sound was my sound was the closest to his. Out of everybody. If you compare our songs, I agree. So he requested to meet me, and when I met him, I said, oh shit, it was to a little bit degree a lot but here d Dot Midwest. But this dude's is for that. You know them other soul sounds are just yikes. You heard that, and that I need him here. Talked to his mother, got him to Jersey, shopped him around. Did think so I wasn't traumatized.

01:17:26
Speaker 1: I was more said to because when they say that Kanye is a no I D baby and I love Dianna's is to me one of the one of the I've always I always felt like he was trying to sound like you, I mean to me, to me, Kanye, you know, you know Kanye looked up to no I D.

01:17:46
Speaker 2: But at the time that I got Kanye came.

01:17:49
Speaker 5: Around Blueprint, Kanye is more no I D. But the early Kanye was not.

01:17:54
Speaker 3: I'm just the way that I'm saying. He talked about no id.

01:17:58
Speaker 1: Off story as I'm saying, as far as his production before you get to the Blueprint era was not the soul not.

01:18:09
Speaker 2: It was your ship, but.

01:18:10
Speaker 3: Yeah it was, and he was he was still learning because remember he's coming from New York. Now he's he's coming from Chicago. Now he's living in New York, New Jersey. So now he gets to hear on a more consistent basis, a different radio sound terrestrial radio at the time, you know what I'm saying.

01:18:26
Speaker 2: And then different rap styles.

01:18:28
Speaker 3: He's in the studio with Trey trades from Philly, so now he's just there with Trey and the raps is it's not the same as you're not hearing these cadences, these twangs. It's different. His lingo was different than my lingo and we ain't about an hour and a half away from each other. And slangs and flows and textures. So I was showing them all of that. He did a video where said he went to the studio with Jay and he didn't know how to coach Jay because that's not being a producer.

01:18:54
Speaker 2: Then, so I taught him how to say Yo, Trey the fuck man? What is that?

01:19:01
Speaker 3: Say the word like trying to tell you we'd have those conversations producing. So I taught him how to be a producer outside of track making.

01:19:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, versus producer, not versus added on to your arsenal.

01:19:17
Speaker 3: Be able to produce the song and not just do the beat and you think you hear the finished product, but you can't you know how to get it.

01:19:25
Speaker 4: I recall there was one record that we did catch twenty two Cat. Chucky Hope produce that record with Kan. Kanye and Chucky and Dot were in the studio. I think this is the beginnings of him being a producer. I'll never forget it. We were in Daddy's house actually mixing the record. He wasn't there first, so him and Chucky's Dot and Chucky it came, you know, did some things or whatever, and he comes in there later it's like, wait a minute, what are y'all doing.

01:19:55
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this. He was like, wait a minute, what are y'all doing?

01:19:59
Speaker 4: And there was certain things that died and chuck me between with but kind of you know, didn't elongate it if you will, and didn't and he was like, no, you gotta have that part right here, and he was doing an arrangement right before my eyes. And I had never seen Kanye like that in Crazy Cat, right in the beginning stages of it. So I think because of what you're talking about, you know, I think he picked up on a lot of the things that DoD was talking, and he came in there and I actually seen him in real time take control and produce, Like I got another base right, oh ship right, I got more?

01:20:36
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, so of course yeah, works goes, Let's do that. Let's do that.

01:20:43
Speaker 1: What inspired y'all to start law Disorder?

01:20:47
Speaker 3: Like?

01:20:47
Speaker 1: What was the first conversation between the two y'all? Like, I think we want to start on this album?

01:20:53
Speaker 2: Must it be one?

01:20:55
Speaker 1: No?

01:20:56
Speaker 3: Over the last couple of years, I've been just trying to make records with Trey, putting them on freestyle and stuff like that. So I was working on a song called Appreciate the album called Appreciate the Hate back in twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, we did a freestyle, so I told him I wanted him on this song. He came, which ended up being be warned, never shot a video to it because at the time, you know, I had my teeth was all messed up, so I got some new gibs in my mouth. So back then I wasn't really in front of the cameras. So somewhere along the line, I think I was trying to send him some beats for something and whatever whatever, and we were just trying to We were always, over the years have conversations about our place in hip hop. And then recently there was a time when I'm noticing that our generation is not being as critiqued as much, not being as told you can't do it. And then albums are coming out from people older than us our age and younger than us that's within that five to seven year span, and I'm like, wow, this is this is good and I so, I said, you know, and I'm doing Black Rob. So I dropped Black Rob. So I'm like, you know, Trey, so we need to work on something. And Trey said, well, you know, and it's time that we gotta. We should shoot a video to be worn that we made years ago. Be Warn is seven years old now people didn't know that we know it now, but so we shot a video to it and the response was as if we made the record.

01:22:25
Speaker 2: The week before. Yeah.

01:22:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I think that triggered the ept's three songs.

01:22:31
Speaker 2: Let's do three or four songs.

01:22:32
Speaker 3: We got to those songs and I was like, this shit gonna come and go in a day, and I just feel like making more record.

01:22:40
Speaker 2: So Trey was like let's go.

01:22:43
Speaker 4: Now and then let's keep it one hundred through. You had a chip on your shoulder a little bit. Yeah, look, I got a chip on my shoulder, Yeah, a little bit. Because I don't think, you know, going back to all of the story we just had with Dot and his history and who's work where b bly, I don't think he gets the proper credit in my in my mind for being one of the top producers of all time. You see what I'm saying, And I don't think people properly heard me as a lyric sty I was hoping, you know what I'm saying, because of the magnitude of the first record that you ever heard from me, which is the theme is Party Time, which is a monster record, and this is the reason why I still get phone calls. But I don't think that people heard the dynamics of the lyricism that I think that I put my blood. He always teases me, teaches me about it, because everything that I write has a purpose, and it's intricate, and it's all kinds of shit. It's layers and layers that a lot of the audience just got, you know, a Party Time on their mind, and they just think.

01:23:49
Speaker 2: That that's all it t really is.

01:23:52
Speaker 4: So that was also a part of the motivation to creating.

01:23:57
Speaker 3: And Big on versus just about thirty year combo about Big, because you have to ask yourself why we got them? Why would Big do a record with Trey? So there's a part of us that says, we still need you to know why one of the greatest, that you think is the greatest did a record with this guy and didn't do a record with you, Because most of the questions are coming from people that are envious are the fact that Trey even got to do a record Big and they didn't.

01:24:24
Speaker 2: That's that's real rap. Yeah, I was gonna let your shit. I ain't want to, I'll say it.

01:24:29
Speaker 1: But I also think too, like you know, hip hop me and the youngest genre, which's talking about off Mike, like we're finally seeing how it can age because a lot of times when we saw what would be quote unquote older rappers, it looked like he was the old guy in the club. But now we're starting to see Na's doing six projects with hip hooy. It doesn't sound you don't sound like you're trying to be young, right, And there's there's also a whole audience. I'm thirty six. There's my cousin is forty seven. He wants to listen to the rap he grew up on, and he wants them to keep making music. That's a whole other day. He's not even trying to listen to what's out now. He wants to hear nas rap again. To me, it's saying it's important to show that hip hop can age gracefully where it used to be no country for old men.

01:25:16
Speaker 5: And I don't think that's the case anymore.

01:25:18
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it's the case anymore either, But I don't think that the youth having bodied that sent to me yet. I think that our generation has decided that there's nothing else. It's almost like by default they got we got to an age where some of this young shit. I try, but I just can't get to it. So now the Drake's, the j Cole's, and above the Little Wayne's.

01:25:40
Speaker 2: And all of them.

01:25:41
Speaker 3: If that's what I have as a fifty eight sixty year old, then I might have to leave that to the kids. So then what's left for me? Because I can't like I love Drake, and I love Lil Wayne, and I love Cole and Kendrick and all these But I might not be able to relate all the way to what.

01:25:57
Speaker 2: Their time is.

01:25:58
Speaker 4: And you keep it in the even to buck shit day forty Well yeah, so you know what I'm saying.

01:26:05
Speaker 2: But but but still, that's the other thing. Older than me eighteen.

01:26:09
Speaker 3: Twenty fifteen years is a huge difference for the way we've been programmed in hip hop. So fifty eight years old and fifty sevens and fifty five's and all that. When that opportunity came, I think it was more by almost by the fall, because our generation is like, Wow, I turned on terrestrial radio. I'm not gonna hear you guys. So rock the Bells grew out of that. Yeah, all these old school stations grew out of the necessary need to feed a machine of people that said, if it ain't nos and met the man with new albums. I might like a Drake song, I might like this, I might like I even might like a Chris Brown song. But I'm gonna lean more towards Usher, but I might get a new christ My wife, my wife likes Chris Brown. She ain't you know Usher comes out? She going to the concert. Chris Brown goes out, comes out. She might go to the concert, but it ain't all. It ain't all hands on deck, you see what I'm saying to you. So all I'm saying that I think we found a way to feed out generation properly, and if we can deliver music like I think we delivered on Law and Disorder, where it's it's we're not reaching. We got songs like like this that's reminiscent of old but it feels new.

01:27:15
Speaker 2: To need a lawyer like that.

01:27:18
Speaker 3: Yeah right, right, right, right right, So trying and then also, like I said, his story of growth going from rapper to going to law school, passing the ball, actually being a working an attorney and then still being having a skill set to keep up with whoever you think is hot and the record making skills that whereas we got guys from our generation that haven't gone on in law school, that haven't become firement and teachers and they still doing it and their record making skills haven't shown any.

01:27:50
Speaker 1: Growth, Yeah right, yeah right, and the law disorder is growth. The most positive thing I've seen from the disgusting part of hip hop media and comments was actually when Andre three thousand did his flute album, and he did an interview and he said, I don't want to wrap what I'm rap about getting coln ospi, and everyone in the comments said, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know we're all at this age. No, no, that's exactly that's exactly what I don't hear you wrap about. Right, But that's like because we're growing with you as well.

01:28:22
Speaker 2: Like. But again, from his perspective.

01:28:25
Speaker 1: Four forty four was the best thing Hole ever did to pivot to the people.

01:28:30
Speaker 2: That grew up with them to be adulthood.

01:28:31
Speaker 3: Yeah right, And I'm saying to you, not every artist wants to put their lives on wax for the audience. So if it's not for entertainment purposes only, then why am I doing it?

01:28:44
Speaker 2: So, for example, tell me something you really know about Buster the Rooms. From a personal standpoint.

01:28:51
Speaker 5: From his records, he's the greatest dapper of all time.

01:28:54
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, if you, if you, if you need your back crack, he will daput and break your clear.

01:29:06
Speaker 2: When he sees you.

01:29:06
Speaker 3: Absolutely, But he's clearly decided he's not gonna spell out his life for your wax. See, so his record making is gonna be for entertainment purposes only. You know, be here bust to make introspective records.

01:29:21
Speaker 2: See, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you.

01:29:23
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you pushback in page if we have to mark this because we can't hear it.

01:29:26
Speaker 2: Best I can worrhapsody with that album.

01:29:30
Speaker 4: Well, that albums though that album is as the body of work.

01:29:40
Speaker 3: As a body of work, that's not what you heard. So some people may love that, say something it's really good. Some people may say at this age, yeah, I should be rapping about this, but I'm almost fifty eight, about fifty eight, and on this album, you ain't gonna hear nothing about me having a thrite this in my neck and my back. You ain't gonna hear nothing about the problems I'm going through with my daughters, raising daughters and all this other stuff unless I'm doing it in such a way that can entertain you.

01:30:07
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm saying.

01:30:08
Speaker 3: So at the end of the day, record making still comes down to how do I entertain you enough for this story for you to like and love this story.

01:30:16
Speaker 1: And we brought up four forty four. I think Na's life is good is the better exactly? But I love that albums just raw emotion.

01:30:23
Speaker 2: Ship. Life is good. Life, it's good.

01:30:25
Speaker 1: It's the same content with records that you could do.

01:30:30
Speaker 2: That, right, that's what.

01:30:32
Speaker 1: But on the Buster side, Busted to me is almost he's almost Chris Brown, like where you're a legend, you have hit records, you have all this.

01:30:41
Speaker 5: You've never given us a quintessential.

01:30:42
Speaker 2: Like I don't. What's the Buster album? I mean, that's that's the whole of a subject. I just content wise.

01:30:48
Speaker 3: There's some artists that, yes, you're growing with them, but you're not growing with them in there in there, in in the sanctions of their lives. They're not take get you through every part of what they're going through in life.

01:31:03
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying to you, Some artists do that. Jay.

01:31:06
Speaker 3: We know Jay's mother, we know he shot his brother, we know he sold drugs. We got stories that we can talk. We know what happened with him and the guys that got locked up. We know what happened when they came home, how we put them on. We know the guys he sold drugs with. You got an artist like Buster, who's one of the greatest artists we ever have. You don't have a lot of those records from him because he didn't want to put that out there. So at fifty five fifty fourve old he is you probably won't. You shouldn't expect all of a sudden for this turn to happen, and all of a sudden you're gonna learn all about mister buster Romes.

01:31:39
Speaker 5: In one song and both of what you're talking about.

01:31:42
Speaker 4: This still is a it still has to be in order for you to be considered dope, in my opinion, you still have to have a creative aspect to it, like whether you're talking about your life story or you just talking about you know what I'm.

01:31:53
Speaker 2: Saying, how nice you are on the mic. You know what I mean.

01:31:57
Speaker 4: And that's what Lauren Disordered is to me. It's beat and rhymes. It's it's essentially we won't give you a peek into and a little bit of this, that and the third. But it goes down to the beach and rhymes and how creative the flows are and what pockets where in the in the in the production, and what pockets we're choosing to get in and out of that production. I think, especially at this stage in the game, in order for us to be palatable to not only our age group, but even those that are just being introduced to us for the first time, if it's not appealing to the ear, no matter what the subject matter is. And that's where the creativity comes into play, Like how can you say certain things? May we may give you bragged nocio throughout the whole album, but but but how did they say it?

01:32:43
Speaker 2: Like how did it come off?

01:32:45
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, And that, to me is the essence of what we call hip hop.

01:32:49
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

01:32:50
Speaker 3: And I think Lord Disorder is exactly that. It's at my age, I don't feel like I have nothing to prove. I have a chip, but the chip I don't wake up every day right, and it's weighing me down. It's just like any other person, you have to ask yourself, you know, did I do enough? You know what I'm saying, Like, you know, I'm an achievement oriented person. When I sit out to do something, I don't have to be number one at it, but I gotta get it done, you know what I mean.

01:33:20
Speaker 2: I'm a get it done person.

01:33:21
Speaker 3: So this album was to show the world that I'm out of space in my life and he's at space in his life. Where this is semi easy for us and we're just gonna have some fun.

01:33:32
Speaker 2: But we're not trying to take it back.

01:33:36
Speaker 3: To eighty eight, right right, it's set the record straight type of thing we're gonna I feel like we grew as lyricists.

01:33:45
Speaker 2: MC's flows and you can hear it.

01:33:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as a producer some of these albums, I hear that some of the some ones you named.

01:33:55
Speaker 2: Or some of thems we didn't name, I don't hear growth.

01:33:59
Speaker 3: I hear moments in time for them, and it's a good opportunity to drop an album, But I don't hear growth. I don't hear a space that now I can see the maturation because of how you set me up as opposed to I'm gonna take you back to eighty eight. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Disorder is not a take back. It's a wow. This reminds me of but it's now.

01:34:29
Speaker 1: I was watching a Chris Rock interview when Tribe Thank You for Your Service came out and he was describing why that album was good, and he said, it's the first time I've heard older rappers not rap about what they used to do. Right, you become the yesteryear, like, yo, you remember we were legends and we did all that.

01:34:50
Speaker 4: To your point, let me say this because I don't think this gets across enough. You know what I'm saying from the time that I did it, And I'm not just saying it.

01:34:56
Speaker 2: Because it's me.

01:34:58
Speaker 4: How many lawyers they used to be chop chart topping artists are they out there?

01:35:04
Speaker 2: Well, there's no one.

01:35:06
Speaker 1: There's a reason why that'd go against the system, right, But you have an artist that's also a lawyer.

01:35:11
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

01:35:12
Speaker 1: But and that's the reason the universal would like that.

01:35:19
Speaker 4: But I just like, that's why I damnedn't mentioned it in every song because I don't think you understand the magnitude of what this ship is, like this is some real ship, like like what you know what I'm saying. But but yeah, that's that law and disorder. Of course, if you can put it together, I'm the law and that's.

01:35:36
Speaker 3: And and and you know it's it's it's a culmination of people know me as the mad rapper, they know beats. But it's also just saying in these times to produce a rapper what I haven't heard except maybe a little bit with Dre and Snoop because any of these guys having fun right like you named albums them sessions don't sound fun. I mean them just sound intense dark. The weed is black, like it just sounds like the liquors dark brown. Nothing sounds like they was having fun. It all this sounds so serious, like they got all this other ship going on. I'm in the studio. I got slippers on incensely. Ye were watching pawns. I got in the air.

01:36:23
Speaker 2: We're doing all of that. I'm not doing that wine.

01:36:27
Speaker 3: Yeah he got wine, I got whatever I got everybody, but we having fun, you know what I'm saying. Like it's like imagining being in a Rihanna session during them times, Like how fun was those sessions? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm trying. That's where we at. We had to say that I'm sending songs and I'm giggling when I said to your to You're gonna enjoy this one so much, you know what I'm saying. Not like your fam We got ain't all none of that.

01:36:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, none of we passed that. That's on disorder. And I'm always going to be an habitual line step anyway. You know what I'm saying. So that's just the Disorder party, you know what I mean.

01:37:07
Speaker 1: Well, I really appreciate you guys pulling up long. Disorder is out now, And just for my own selfish reasons, I want to tell you guys, this makes podcasting not a job to me.

01:37:20
Speaker 2: Is sitting with guys like you. I appreciate it.

01:37:25
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, little Rory, like when he was fucking ten years old, I couldn't imagine sitting on a couch with guys like you.

01:37:33
Speaker 2: So this this is something.

01:37:34
Speaker 3: That that's that's real. Suburban Little Rory would like to beat you guys. That's just that he was smoking.

01:37:41
Speaker 5: He was smoking black mouth. But cople people real quick?

01:37:45
Speaker 2: You for you finished?

01:37:46
Speaker 3: Oh Jiz, Yes, Riz Deluxe, Sherry John, God Bless Black, Rob DJ, Blinks down there Blink's Basement, and everybody else participated. Man, just Eric going to artwork. Yeah, Cherry John out of Brooklyn. She sang on the album US did a beautiful job. So all those people, I just right, is just everybody good looking? Because you know platforms, they watch your platform you know what I'm saying, So I want to make sure that they know we recognize their efforts.

01:38:21
Speaker 2: And helping us pull this thing off, and we appreciate you having us. Yeah. Do we get a live show? What does that mean? Yeah?

01:38:30
Speaker 5: Sure, what I'm saying, we get a live a live show. Y'all got on tour anything?

01:38:35
Speaker 2: Oh you mean you mean are we doing?

01:38:37
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, we got so I'll send you all of that. We gotta just yeah yeah all summer long. Yeah, I was, I was like, you want to get up here?

01:38:45
Speaker 2: Just no no album?

01:38:58
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, throwing DC next week. We got Brooklyn, Brooklyn the block party.

01:39:09
Speaker 2: Come please.

01:39:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're doing that. Letting they see for Charlie Macingham Joints. That's the twenty info. Yeah, off the top of my head. You know we have the other person here have it.

01:39:24
Speaker 5: I don't know all that.

01:39:28
Speaker 3: That's the other part, Rory, keep it real. I love playing artists right now. Usually I'm on the other side.

01:39:32
Speaker 2: This ship is so fun to me.

01:39:34
Speaker 3: I get to show up, smoke and do me on the camera. I don't have to order new cars, worry about where he at, where she at somebody else. That ship is love, grown grow with grown men. That ship is like, yeah, like this so this whole Lord dis Orders just fun.

01:39:52
Speaker 4: Just that We just to make sure y'all go cop that man platforms.

01:39:57
Speaker 2: Out now listen to him, Please beg, appreciate you. I love no Willian now