379. I got an STD in my 20s, now what?

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Before we get into it, I want to let you guys know that this episode and The Psychology of Your Twenties is.

00:00:29
Speaker 2: Now on Netflix.

00:00:32
Speaker 1: That is a wild thing to say, but it is true. If you want to watch the video version of this podcast and you are in the US or Canada, you can go to Netflix right now look up the Psychology of Your Twenties, and you will see my face and you will see our podcasts.

00:00:50
Speaker 2: It goes without saying.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: It is such an honor and I'm truly so grateful to you all that you have given me this opportunity. The entire feel, the vibe is incredible. I think it's so personal. It brings a whole new element to it. And if you want to feel like you are sitting in your living room, in my living room with me having a chat, now is your opportunity. Go to Netflix, look up the Psychology of Your Twenties. I'd love to see you over there. But without further Ado, Let's get into the episode. Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here, back for another episode as we break down the psychology of our twenties. Just a heads up, today's episode will be naturally covering topics like sex, sexual assault, and other mature themes, but also difficult themes. So if this is something you may find hard to hear, please consider your own headspace and wellbeing and whether or not now is the time to listen to this episode. It will still be here in a month a year for you to come back to, so just remember to.

00:01:59
Speaker 2: Take care of yourself.

00:02:01
Speaker 1: So, guys, today's episode is hopefully going to be like the big sister slash best friend version of the sex education class you.

00:02:09
Speaker 2: Never had in school.

00:02:10
Speaker 1: We cover so many, obviously, I think important topics on this podcast, like breakups and work and specific mental health issues, all things that you have to do without twenties. But sex is a part of our twenties I don't often talk about, and sdis STDs are a part of that as well, not just a physical part of it, not just a risk part of it, but a psychological part of our twenties for so many of us. Sdis are so common. They are also treatable or at the very least manageable when you have access to healthcare. But socially and emotionally speaking, they have such an impact still to this day on how we date, how we see ourselves, how we see others, how.

00:02:54
Speaker 2: We see our future.

00:02:56
Speaker 1: Even if you are the most sex positive, therapy literate person and on the planet, I still think there is a huge taboo around sexually transmitted infections or diseases, and finding out you have one is always going to be shocking. It's always going to be or feel life altering or scary, and it brings a lot of shame. And that's why I want to talk about how to approach this situation if it is the one that you found yourself in, from when you're diagnosed, to bringing it up with a person you're seeing, to dealing with the shame or emotional toll that it may be taking on you. I just want to say it's going to be okay. You're going to be okay. Sdis have been a part of human history since human history began, and the medical advances we have had recently as a society means that you're going to be taken good care of. And you know, we probably don't even realize how many people you talk to, walk by, admire, or are friends with have this experience as well. You know how many people as well still get their love story and still have a relationship and have sex and get to know themselves and trust themselves and get their health back again. So that's exactly what I want to focus on today. Quick note, this episode is more educational, it's not medical advice. So for personal guidance or if you feel like you might be experiencing any of these things we talk about on the show today, please go talk to a sexual health clinic or healthcare professional who can give you a bit more informed medical information. But without further ado, let's get into it. So before we dive further in, just a little clarity on the difference between SDIS and SDDS because I used to use these interchangeably, like I think a lot of people do, even medical professionals, and then one of my friends called me out on it, and I really appreciated her doing so. Because SDI is sexually transmitted infection. This is the broader term to describe infection caused by viruses, bacteria, or parasites that are passed through sexual contact. Someone might have an SDI without having any symptoms at all, meaning it can be passed on without people knowing that they even have it. You usually catch them at this stage if you go for routine checks. STDs. Sexually transmitted diseases is when the initial infection has advanced to a point of significantly noticeable symptoms or disease. So basically, if an SDI is left untreated, it can, but not always, developed into an STD. A lot of professionals now actually advocate for the term SDI to be used more generally than the term disease because I think just diseases just feels like a stigmatizing term. But I think that very simple language lesson language shift is one that we can all integrate.

00:06:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, just for the better.

00:06:02
Speaker 1: I think if you grew up with the sex education that a lot of us had sdis, you would think that they are the worst thing that could ever.

00:06:10
Speaker 2: Happen to you.

00:06:11
Speaker 1: Number one, that you would your life would be over because of all those fear based stories we were told. You might also have absorbed this idea that sdis are really really rare. Something that happens to you know, they happen to reckless people or people who are careless. But oh my god, you would be so wrong. Globally, sdis are way more common than you think. And this, I think is the first step to feeling less isolated in this experience, because if we don't talk about this openly, you you truly think like you're the only one to have ever had this experience. But get this, The World Health Organization estimates I think that it's more than like a million curable SDI acquired every single day, day daily, And in twenty twenty it was estimated I think three hundred and seventy four million new infections of the foremost curable sdis so chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, and I can't remember the third one were diagnosed during that year. Here's another very important scientific fact that I want to bring up as early as I possibly can in this episode chliminia, gonerrehea, syphilis, HIV, HBV, herpies. Every single SDI has either a preventative intervention, a cure, or a highly effective treatment that manages symptoms, every single one, and with early detection, the chances of seeing no symptoms, no changes or very minimal symptoms or getting to a full recovery is so much higher. Here are some positive things to know about recent treatment developments. If you're scared in the wake of your own diagnosis, or you're scared to find out or to go get tested for starters, chlamydia, gonneriea, syphilis. Some of the most common sdis that you get in your twenties are all curable with antibiotics. That is some good news. Some more good news. In twenty twenty five, researchers in Melbourne got one step closer to developing a cure for HIV. I think that is the SDD we are most fearful of right now. Though people on medication for HIV have the same life expectancy as people without HIV, some of them may never experience any symptoms. Let's keep going with the good news. Twenty twenty five, again, Australia announced it was on track to eliminate cervical cancer, which has basically completely caused due to HBV. Last year as well, a new treatment for herpes that dropped the viral load by ninety four percent moved to phase two trials, the first ever gonnorrhea vaccine is being rolled out in the UK as we speak.

00:09:00
Speaker 2: Like.

00:09:00
Speaker 1: The reason I emphasize all this is because when you get that call from your doctor or the sexual health clinic, or get a text from a partner that's like, hey, you have this or you're at risk, it can feel like the flaw has dropped out from beneath you and that this is the end. It can be physically painful as well. It can be disruptive in many ways to our lives. Sometimes all that emotion can overwhelm us and can prompt avoidance. It's easier to look away from the situation than to face it head on. And I don't want that to mean that you don't pursue treatment immediately or get the help you need because you assume there isn't any You assume that your life is now over there. You believe a lot of the narratives that I think we were told when we were kids that were very scary and very harmful. I know, I've I speak about this all the time. I hate when people try and put a positive spin on everything and try to make you think you have to be almost like optimistic about you know, about your circumstances what you're going through. But with how much fear mongering and shame surrounds SDIS, I feel like it's necessary to just balance that with some truth you are going to be okay. The fact that we're not emphasizing this more in society the way, you know, we always talk so positively. You always see in the news when cancer trials have been successful or dementia trials have been successful. We never do the same for like SDIS. And I think that also proves how prejudiced out collective attitudes towards SDIS are that medical winds never get the attention, but also how much people still think that fear and shame is going to somehow make SDIS go away by scaring people into not having sex. Because we just emphasize the worst case scenario. People who still believe that, like at this stage are so they're idiots, Like it doesn't stop shame doesn't stop people. It's almost like this weird reverse psychology thinking of like if we talk about how common and readable this is, then people will be careless because there's this assumption that only carelessness is what makes someone get an STI that is not true. What that means is that when we do, we're terrified and we think our life is over. We don't get tested because we're scared to know the outcome, and you don't get the help you need because you think everybody's going to judge you. And then the problem gets worse, symptoms get worse. Perhaps the infection, the virus, the bacteria gets passed on. Nobody is better off. Getting an STI is a shock physically, and it is a health concern that needs treatment and medical care. But emotionally, I think the toll is also quite high because of the stigma. And that's really what we're talking about here. Some psychological researchers even labeled getting an STI as a traumatic event. It may trigger a similar emotional reaction to the experience of grief, you know, denial, anger at the person who gave it to you, anger at the world, bargaining, but also social withdrawal and isolation. You know, I had a friend of mine get an SDI from a guy she'd been singing for like six months. It was the first person she'd ever slept with. Whether he cheated on her or had it before, we may never know, but I remember she didn't tell us for like almost a year because of fear and the fear of judgment. And I think I remember her being like, I just felt like it was said something about me as a person, like it's a literal verdict on my character. And psychology, sociology explains what that feeling is. It's called the spoiled identity effect. It's when people start to see themselves defined by condition that supposedly says something about their character or who they are. At some stage, someone put this insidious idea in our head that sdis are what happened to careless people, im moral people, undisciplined people, impure people, and so I must be all those things. That judgment is a human judgment. It's a moral judgment that is man made. And it really comes down to how we treat sex and how most of us are raised in a culture where sex is already very taboo, something you meant to be very discreet about, not admit that you want, and definitely not make so called mistakes around. So when you throw into it an infection caught through sex, suddenly it's like, what did you expect? Like this was a choice you had, We can hold you accountable, and that's ludicrous. There's a really striking piece of social psychology research that shows how powerful that moral contamination narrative is in stopping people from getting help and actually making sdis worse. Across five separate experiments published in the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, research has found that simply adding unprotected sex to a list of possible ways of disease could be transmitted made people judge an infected person more and made participants believe that if they got the disease, others would see them as less moral to so the infections of the diseases, the conditions on this list stayed the same. Some of them were like neurological decline, cancer, hair loss. But once sex was associated in any way with these diseases, these studies showed that people just saw them differently immediately, even though nothing had changed except for that label. It's so funny to me, because if we eat out at a restaurant and the food gives us food poisoning, you would not turn that on yourself and be like, oh my goodness, I'm so immoral and disgusting because I chose to eat there, and other people wouldn't think that.

00:14:47
Speaker 2: Of you either.

00:14:48
Speaker 1: You're just someone who fulfilled the human need to eat, and you got unlucky with what you ate. So if we engage in another human need and we have sex, and we get unlucky and we catch an SDI, why is that different? It's a leading question. We all know why because of the way against society has tried to control sex for generations upon generations, using shame as their number one.

00:15:13
Speaker 2: Tool to do so.

00:15:14
Speaker 1: To understand the stigma further, let's get a little bit historical for a second. Sdis I don't think would be so stigmatized if sex wasn't so stigmatized because it wasn't used to control men and women, but mainly women, and it wasn't used to control women to get them to behave in a way that suited.

00:15:31
Speaker 2: The needs of others.

00:15:33
Speaker 1: A huge part of why sdis are seen as and I oh, I hate using this word, but as dirty is because sex, particularly casual sex, is seen as impure, and that contrast to a lot of the you know, purity language that religion likes to use, both as a spiritual category that you're peer of mind, pure of heart, and also as a social mechanism of control women's bodies. Is something that can be virtuous, can be clean, can be controlled, or conversely can be sinful and tainted and dangerous. There are so many ways that religion idolizes the pure woman, idolizes virginity literally to the point of biological impossibility, like virgin Mary being a virgin but being pregnant. And in contrast, this also shamed sex and it shames impurity, uses it as another way to judge the morality of someone. Historically, we ask we have to ask this question, why would women need to be shamed for having sex? Why would they have to be shamed for having casual sex? Because in many ways, I think they were treated like property. They were meant to be solely bound to one man so that he could know the children she bore were his, so that his wealth, his inheritance would go to something, his kin, that belonged to him, not.

00:16:52
Speaker 2: Some other man.

00:16:53
Speaker 1: And a woman that could give him that almost like security because she was a virgin when she met him, because she stayed control when she was with him, she was an asset. If we want, and if they wanted, more women to act like that, the easiest way to make them do so is to find ways to humiliate those who wouldn't, and to basically change behavior through social learning and vicarious learning of us witnessing the experiences of people who acted out of line anything to do with sex that's not done in quote unquote traditional the traditional way therefore becomes shameful. But especially STIs, and not just for women, but for anyone who was like acting out of line with how people should be having sex. Queer sex is another area where we see that. You know, we can't talk about the shame around STIs and not talk about the AIDS epidemic and how HIV and AIDS wasn't treated as the medical crisis that it was in the early days, it was framed as a moral crisis. There was all this language of like innocent victims versus guilty victims, and entire especially gay men, were blamed, de humanized, left to suffer as if illness was a deserved consequence of deviant sex. Again, because of religion and how it determined right and wrong and good and bad. In this way, this is where we are now. Sdis act as kind of a moral barometer that you've crossed a line or you've made a bad choice, contrary to how people think you should behave if you think about it, like, the only other kind of biological impact to unprotected sex is like unplanned pregnancy, which also has its own moral connotations, but again predominantly affects women. Now I can hear like people's brains ticking and being like, you know, you could make the argument that back in the day as well, shame was the only public safety mechanism people had against sddiyes like sdis back then were deadly, They were very serious, They would kill you. The only option they maybe had was preventive and was to use emotional levers to promote abstinence or monogamy to stop the spread. There is an argument for that, but nowadays that's not the case anymore. As we've spoken about, there's a lot more medical care. The shame primarily lingers because of this moral shadow that's cast by history and religion and perceptions of good and bad, right and wrong, pure and dirty, amongst other things. And the reason the reason I'm lingering on the history of this is because psychologically it's important. This is what creates attitudes and cultural memory that mean that you are carrying shame and mean that there is this mental shortcut that SDI equals irresponsible sex equals risky. Diagnosis equals humiliation equals life over. If you have an SDI and you're managing internalized or even outside stigma, I think getting treatment is obviously step number one. Step number two is knowing you're not alone. But step number three is being able to interrogate why exactly people want you to feel bad, Why they want you to self police and internalize your shame, why they want you to not talk about it. Sex isn't bad, Casual sex isn't bad. Getting an SDI doesn't make you dirty or damaged goods. I hate that word quite literally, like anyone could get one, anyone simply from being born with it, from drug use, needle use, blood transfusions to on consensual sex. And guess what, even if you got it because yeah, you just didn't use a condom or you didn't know the person that well, still doesn't make you deserving or immoral or whatever others want to convince you. There are no innocent and not non innocent people in this because no one's done anything wrong. Let's talk about the fourth thing that you may feel as weighing pretty heavy on you right now, which is your beliefs about the future. A big concern for people who get an SDI in their twenties, especially one that maybe doesn't go away immediately or ever, is about relationships and how an SDI will impact how they'll meet people, bond with people.

00:21:08
Speaker 2: Whether they'll be accepted.

00:21:15
Speaker 1: Stigma often gives us a much more negative view on how conversations about SDIS with potential partners.

00:21:22
Speaker 2: Are going to go.

00:21:24
Speaker 1: We often anticipate I think harsher, judgment, disgust, and maybe a rejection, even though medically, socially, relationally, a lot of people build very healthy, loving lives with these diagnoses because as we've seen, there are still steps you can take to minimize or eradicate risk. The painful part is when you have that one negative experience or that one moment where you do come up against stigma. Also, the painful part is thinking about that moment and the potential of it, and that can really start to shape how you act, and you might avoid dating, avoid intimacy, stay in relationships that aren't right because you feel disqualified from wanting more, or you kind of you wonder if anybody's gonna want you. You know, I had a friend of mine she got herpies a couple of years ago. Now, yeah, a couple of years ago, and she was like, I remember her having this moment of being like, is this the dating pool for me?

00:22:22
Speaker 2: Now?

00:22:22
Speaker 1: Is it just gonna be smaller? Is it just gonna be people with herpies? Is that the only people I can date?

00:22:27
Speaker 2: It? Those my options?

00:22:29
Speaker 1: And you know there's not exactly a filter on hinge that's like people with herpeus yes or no, or like a filter to like figure it out, or a prompt that that's hard, that's hart. And the easiest thing is again to avoid dating altogether, because avoidance temporarily reduces anxiety, so it can become the default coping strategy, even though it goes against your hopes for the future. And I know, I know it can be really difficult to believe that you'll find someone who who will understand this and who won't pass judgment. But there are so many accounts of this happening I would highly recommend. And I know this is going to be weird, but going to Reddit pages and support pages and looking up like dating with herpes, dating with HIV, dating with hepbe because the stories are so honest and beautiful and just kind of matter of fact, like their matter of fact, which is what I like. Basically their like relationships are hard, dating is hard, this is hot, but there are always success stories regardless of circumstances. You don't even have to look that far. You will find genuinely very romantic stories of people who are probably in a similar situation to what you are in. Now, let's talk about when you should tell someone you have an SDI, because I feel like this is kind of controversial.

00:23:50
Speaker 2: It's like upfoo debate.

00:23:50
Speaker 1: People have different opinions about it. I got a lot of info on this from the SDI Project and also from this amazing article from the website them dot com, but also from friends who have been in this situation and how they've dealt with it in a couple of ways. Obviously, the only constraint is that you want to tell somebody before you have sex or before like transmission is possible. It's then your call from there when you want to do it. I have a friend who tells someone on the first date. I have another friend who tells them on the fourth or fifth date, like when things are kind of going to like sexually speed up. The other constraint is that it's probably wise to not tell them in the minutes or moments before you're about to have sex, mainly because, let's be honest, you're in a vulnerable position if they get angry or frustrated. But also sometimes nobody is thinking clearly and you want to both have a clear risk assessment over text or over a callers often really wise or a nice way to do it, or in a nice, quiet public spot where you feel safe and feel like people like emotions are going to be manageable. I think on the whole, a good structure for this would go something like number one, Like, signal to them you want to talk about health and sexual health. Make that clear, put it in the subject line, share the diagnosis with their matter of factly, share what you do to manage the risk and how much of a risk there is, and kind of invite any questions and like give them time. I think brushing up on your own knowledge and research and education is also great. They'll probably have a lot of questions and you will be a great person to answer them. Give them stats. You know, almost two thirds of the population either has the herpie simplex virus one or two. Treatment has lowered my viral load. I'm not having an outbreak. My doctor has given me this specific advice or that specific advice. I know that there are the preventative rates of vaccines. Whatever it is. A lot of the time, your ability to share this with the other person is going to be appreciated because that's trust, that's honesty, that's maturity, that's a beautiful way to handle a situation. And I think even at times, it deepens the connection to have this thing that you've shared with them. Also, this was advice from my friend actually, she was like, you can tell a lot about someone from their reaction. You can tell a lot about their character, about how they'll handle surprising news, how open they are to learning from their reaction. Listen, there is that chance that you might share it with somebody and they might reject you, rejection of any kindness upsetting. But when it's something as sensitive as this, it's going to feel really personal and I'm really sorry. I'm sorry, especially if you saw it going somewhere or you like really clicked with them, I know, especially it can be hard to believe the age old like, well, they just weren't right for you, because you know, it's not something about your person. It's not something about the situation, it's just unfortunate biology, and that can feel really brutal that if things were different, it could be different. If you feel that real sting of shame or embarrassment, you didn't do anything wrong. You haven't done anything wrong. In fact, it's the complete opposite. You disclosed so that the other person could make an informed decision. You exhibited honesty and kindness, and a lot of people don't do that. Maybe the reason you got an sdis because somebody else didn't do that. Even if the outcome hurts, you did the emotionally mature, ethically solid thing, and you will always have that knowledge about your own character. The thing is they are allowed to have a boundary about risk. People's risk tolerance varies. Some people might be more cautious. Some people might have health anxiety. They might be immunicompromised, some people have past trauma. Some people just aren't ready for a situation that requires extra care from them, extra communication, extra extra thought. Their decision is simply a preference in a boundary they have.

00:28:07
Speaker 2: It's not a verdict.

00:28:08
Speaker 1: It's not a verdict on you as a person, even if it does hurt a little. I think a good response is a simple, grounded one, something like, thanks for being honest. I understand you have to do what feels right for you.

00:28:20
Speaker 2: That's enough.

00:28:21
Speaker 1: A lot of people's immediate reactions as well, comes from outdated narratives on sexual health rather than medical understanding. Even very smart kind people can have massive gaps in sexual health knowledge because sex is taught pretty poorly, still not talked about.

00:28:38
Speaker 2: Literally.

00:28:39
Speaker 1: I got my sex heed from like my forty five year old gym teacher, and he couldn't tell me how lesbians had sex, Like he couldn't tell us anything. So that is the knowledge that a lot of us are coming into this with. People often react to the idea, not the actual risk. You know, the humans we operate on very easy, the mental shortcuts, and this is like a prime example of one of them. That being said as well, if they do react with extreme judgment, pointed insults, character insults, they've gone past the point of just showing respect in a boundary. They're using stigma to position themselves as superior. That that's not a person who is safe for vulnerability. If it's via text and they're getting very harsh, you don't owe them a debate, you can simply stop responding it. This might sound controversial. It's not your job to educate everybody. Your mental health is worth more than proving you're not gross or tainted or whatever they're saying. I hate those words, but like it's you don't.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: Have to be the one who changes their mind.

00:29:47
Speaker 1: Send them some resources, send them the stats, and then leave the situation. Okay, as we wrap up, let's quickly do some Let's do five rapid fire tips I got from friends, sex therapists, articles, sexual health clinics on how to date and live with an SDI.

00:30:06
Speaker 2: Number one.

00:30:07
Speaker 1: This is when I heard from a lot of friends. Have a pre written outscript of info. If you're actively dating and you're trying to find your person, that barrier of having to tell somebody like we just said can be really overwhelming and honestly exhausting when you're you know, maybe seeing a few people, maybe getting rejected, having success in other ways. Save yourself the effort every time, and save yourself the mental load or the emotional load of this discussion by just having a pre typed message, I really like you, so I want to be honest. I have this If you want to say I got it X amount of years ago, whatever. If you don't have to it impacts me in this way, it impacts my life in this way, or not at all.

00:30:47
Speaker 2: The risk to you is this.

00:30:48
Speaker 1: If you want to keep seeing each other, this is maybe what is necessary. Number two on our rapid firelist. Tell your friends. If you haven't already, I'm going to be real. Your friends don't care except to the extent that this is emotionally or physically hurting you. And if they do care beyond that in a judgmental way, they are not your friends. Friendships, like marriages, I think should be through sickness and health, good times and bad times. This is included. This is one of those times in general, Like I just want to say, every time a friend has told me, I have never thought anything other than what do you need from me? I've never It's never been a moral judgment float across my mind. It just isn't a big deal for me and I and I think the more educated we get, the more most people realize it's not a big deal to the extent that they care about you, and it's a big deal for you, but they still love you. You will also connect with so many other people that maybe mutual friends or even your friends who have a similar experience, and you will find so much kinship in just being like I'm not alone. Tip number three keep up with the latest science. I'm going to quote doctor Ali Carr here. The meaning of safe sex changes every decade, so you have to keep up. Every year they develop new strategies, new methods, new science, new drugs. You can live a full life now, undoubtedly, but I think there is so much more optimism coming out in this space. I actually saw this article that said sexual health research and medical research in sexual health space is one of the most optimistic places for research right now. That's great news. We're not trying to be like toxically positive, We're just trying to be informed and just yeah, see the future for what it is with the most information. Tip number four obviously, continue to practice safe sex always. Book tests every time you have a new partner, or every three months, no matter what, even if you haven't had a new sexual partner, even if you have no symptoms. Many sdis never display symptoms until it's progressed. Chamydia, for example, especially in women. HBV is another one. Same with her bees. You might not know until you have a flare up. Consider it like if you're having regular sex. Consider it like getting your haircut, all your nails done like, Integrate it into your routine as part of your hygiene and your health care. And finally, remember that the shame isn't yours to carry. People have been getting sdis since human history began. It is as normal as childbirth, as heartbreak, as any illness. Society has mixed it up with morality in a way that is very, very painful, But so many people have been in your position and made it through the physical and emotional aspects of it. A diagnosis doesn't mean again, this word doesn't mean you're dirty. Makes you informed about your health and wellbeing, which lets you do the most adult thing, the most caring thing possible, which is to get treated, protect others, protect your health, and communicate.

00:33:58
Speaker 2: Communicator honestly.

00:33:59
Speaker 1: So I have a lot of love for the situation you're in right now. I hope the stories of people that I know who've been through this is comforting. If you don't have people in your life you are open to talking about it, I hope that you can take those stories and feel like those are your friends and you can be having those same chats with them and feel completely safe with that and know that you are completely supported and never judged, and then it's all going to be okay.

00:34:29
Speaker 2: I promise.

00:34:31
Speaker 1: Thank you to Libby Colbert for her research contributions to this episode. As always, she is amazing and she was a great help with this episode. Until next time, be safe, be kind, specially be gentle with yourself. If this episode resonated with you at all, you have all my love and we will talk very very soon.