Superintendent Series: Preparing Champions Golf Club for the U.S. Women’s Open

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Toro. Those big agricultural tractors you see working on golf courses with their clutch and complicated lever polling sequences. In a turf maintenance application, they're like stepping out of the first tee not knowing which swing you.

00:00:21
Speaker 2: Have that day.

00:00:22
Speaker 1: Toro's new Outcross nine thousand and sixty can do everything those clunky tractors can, but with tons less stress on the operator and on the turf. With automotive controls and programmable attachment parameters, even rookies on the crew can be trusted with air raiding, top dressing, mowing grass, loading sand, and removing snow from around the clubhouse in the winter. The Toro Outcross nine thousand and sixty is like having all of your best golf shots save ready for use each and every round. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor to schedule a demo. All right, Today's episode is a US Women's Open special. We sit down, not sit down, virtually sit down on Zoom with Chris Ortmeyer, Director of gronomy at champions Golf Club, which is the host for this US Women's Open, a unique host in the sense that due to the December rescheduled date, they will be hosting it at both of their eighteen hole courses, Cypress Creek as well as the Jackrabbit Course. So we talked to Chris Ortmeyer, director of agronomy there, as well as Darren Bivard, who is the director of Championship Agronomy for the USGA. So unique little conversation between the USGA agronomus and the host superintendent Chris and how they prep in different experiences through the years, as well as what we should see ahead of this week's US Women's Open. So hope you guys enjoy this conversation and without further ado, here is Chris and Darren.

00:01:57
Speaker 3: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:02:00
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:02:02
Speaker 3: And when I find my ball in.

00:02:04
Speaker 4: A bright egg Frida egg the dreaded Frida egg Frida, egg Frida, egg bri egg Frida egg bride egg.

00:02:09
Speaker 3: Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course with it.

00:02:21
Speaker 1: With COVID imagined having two golf courses. Uh, to prepare for a championship has been a little bit more stressful for you, Chris, huh.

00:02:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no question about it, And even anticipating it beforehand, it really hasn't has it surfaced as much, I would say, until just recently here the last twenty four hours.

00:02:47
Speaker 5: The biggest thing, by far is just with two golf courses.

00:02:50
Speaker 4: It's it's not only twice the amount of areas to prepare, prepare and maintain, but it's twice the amount of people and and from the vall and tier standpoint, you know, bringing in thirty five individuals who are very good at what we do but essentially never been on property has been by far the greatest challenge up into this point. The logistics, the planning, the preparation to get them all here, to get them somewhat familiar with the property, the jobs they're going to be completing, and then ultimately you know, completed at a high level for the championship this morning has required significantly more than we kind of originally anticipated.

00:03:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Darren, obviously, thirty six hole prep isn't our thirty six whole course prep isn't that new to you, But it's new in an open sense. And Darren, you you know, obviously with every all the amateur events that the USGA runs are typically over thirty six holes. From your sense, how does it differ from an eighteen hole prep, Well, I.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: Think the biggest thing is, you know, again when you.

00:04:02
Speaker 6: Trying one to have the courses placed similarly, not necessarily to each other, but so that on Thursday and Friday, when the players are playing over two days, that you know, the players experience that play Cyprus on Thursday experience the same thing that the players on Jack Rabbit experienced Friday, so to speak, so that it's a fair comparable challenge across thirty six holes. Whereas you know, if you have a situation where something changes on an eighteen hole golf course, Andy, it's a situation where everybody's playing the same golf course every day, so the variation is not as big a deal. But you know, and again just it's you know, it's the same stuff. It's twice as many people. It's trying to to, you know, get the little details over twice as much property in that type of stuff. There there's it's just a matter of wanting, you know, won the playing conditions to be great, but it's also the player experience, uh, and all of the little things that we do for the player experience to be the best that they you know, can have.

00:05:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, something I wanted to talk about is obviously you guys have been coordinating working together on this project, this tournament for for years. Can you guys walk us through kind of you know, from each of your perspectives how a us Women's open setup, in the relationship between host course director of agronomy Chris and in the USCA agronomy team kind of you know works from a few years out till this week.

00:05:57
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'll start.

00:06:00
Speaker 6: Just because it's something that I'm used to doing. I believe the first time I was on this property with Chris was either late twenty sixteen or early twenty seventeen. And you know, it's developing a relationship. One we have to trust each other, you know, we've got to know that you know, hey, what I'm trying to accomplish and what he's trying to accomplish.

00:06:28
Speaker 3: Are the same thing.

00:06:30
Speaker 6: And it's just developing that relationship, learning personalities while also learning agronomy and learning the golf course. And then you know, in this case, champions undertook a putting green renovation to regrasp and rebuild the greens on Cypress Creek, which made it so that Chris got to learn a whole different set of agronomy, at least compared to what he was dealing with on Cyprus before. All positive, but you know, and then beyond that, it's just the progression leading into the event of starting to dial down to you know, details. You know, Chris knows his golf course infinitely better than I do. I know how the USGA conductor Championships and what things are important from our side, so.

00:07:25
Speaker 3: It's meshing those things up.

00:07:27
Speaker 6: His expertise with champions Golf Club and my expertise with USGA Championships.

00:07:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I think I'd say the same thing Andy.

00:07:40
Speaker 4: I mean, like Darren said, I think we signed the agreement back in like February of sixteen, we found out we were going to be hosting it, So it really is neat how the relationships developed over the last three or four years. And then Yeah, I mean, like Darren's that a lot of coordination before, during, and after the construction of the putting greens and bunkers on Cyprus Creek and then also back in the spring, you know, when we found out about the date change, and then ultimately the second golf course comes in, and then in corporation of a bunker renovation project on the Jack Rabbit Golf Course, all while significant travel restrictions are placed on Darren and his inability to be here.

00:08:31
Speaker 5: You know, definitely complicated things, but.

00:08:37
Speaker 4: I'd say equal to or maybe even even just as much or maybe more than I would say the enjoyment and preparing for the event. I think ultimately successfully completing the championship on Sunday would be the relationships that we've developed, you know, Darren being one of them, and the rest of the USJA over the last three or four years have been really really good in things that I'm looking for or to taken with me, you know, for the rest of my career.

00:09:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to talk about the jack Rabbit Course because obviously, in in early spring, you guys find out, you know, obviously you get postponed and then all of a sudden, you know, the Jack Rabbit Courses is now a co host of the opening two rounds, and you know, you guys do a bunker project over the summer, but walk us through you know, the prep for that and understanding the golf course from a setup standpoint. Usually, you know, this is something that you guys on the USA would evaluate for a couple of years. And with the limited travel are you know, are you going to be leaning more on Chris and his staff than typical or you know, how's that how's that whole process work for you guys?

00:09:52
Speaker 6: Well, right now it's kind of evened out pretty quickly. But because of travels, frictions, because of not knowing until you know, March or April that this change was going to be made. The first time I saw jack Rabbit golf course was Thursday, warning, the first time I ever even been out on it at all. So, you know, again relying heavily on Chris in terms of you know, hey, our programs are the same, The greens are very similar in terms of how they you know, perform speeds and those type of things, which by the way, has turned out to be one hundred percent true from a course set up for you know, the actual you know, tease whole locations and that type of stuff. That's Shannon Rollard, who is our director of this championship. She's director for the Women's Open, and you know, even for her, the learning person was really steep. She was able to make some trips out over the summer. But yeah, it's just you know, you're focused on Cyprus Creek. That's what the focus has been all the way up until April, and all of a sudden, it's like, oh, now we have another eighteen hole golf course to figure out, you know, you know, how we how we make it the best that it can be and present the best tests of the players, and uh, we had to figure it out in a short period of time.

00:11:29
Speaker 3: So it's just different.

00:11:33
Speaker 6: Now that I've been on site for four or five days, what I've found out is Chris knows his golf courses really well, and everything that he predicted would happen has happened, which that's a credit to him and his staff.

00:11:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris, I'd love to hear about the bunker projects. I don't, but from what I read, it wasn't planned until you know, the uh, the you.

00:11:59
Speaker 2: Guys knew you were doing doing the two course setup.

00:12:03
Speaker 1: Talk about just you know kind of obviously, twenty twenty has been a strange here for everybody in their workplace. I imagine that this bunker project was kind of a you know a little bit of a surprise, and then it was probably it was a fun project to undertake on a on a deadline.

00:12:21
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure.

00:12:22
Speaker 4: I mean very quickly after we kind of had settled on the date and the second course came into the picture, everyone kind of agreed that improving the bunkers on jack Rab would not only help, you know, from an inclement weather standpoint and our ability to if we do get a heavier rain event during the tournament, get them back and play as quick as possible, but have them essentially play as consistent to the Cypress Creek course as possible. And so yeah, within a couple of weeks we were kind of you know, reaching out the contractors, trying to touch base with architects and try to get everybody on the same page so that we could make a decision quick. And one of the things early on, at least with the kind of the coronavirus pandemic, is a lot of companies kind of put some of their projects on hold. So the first thing was was kind of confirming availability. And we're fortunate to have a really good partnership with Heritage Links Construction company John O'donald doug Right. Those guys over there, they actually office just down the street from us. They were the ones that helped us out with the Cypress project, and so very quickly got them involved, started trying to define scope. Reached out to Bowelling Design, who he and Shane had some history on the Jack Rabbit golf course, which was originally a George Fozio design back in the sixties, renovated by Tom in the early two thousands, who Bowelling and Shane were working with the Fazzio group, and so, uh, get the engine or get the architect figured out, get the construction, you know, the contractor figured out, and within a few weeks we're breaking ground and so.

00:14:12
Speaker 5: Fortunate to have thirty six holes here that we could close.

00:14:15
Speaker 4: One to nine at a time on Jack Rabbit to the membership and everybody was very understanding and supportive there. But the work, I mean it was it was a total reconstruction in the bunkers without any substantial changes to kind of you know, placement or playability.

00:14:38
Speaker 5: But essentially now we're.

00:14:40
Speaker 4: Left with with tremendous bunkers that will perform and play very well for not only the ladies.

00:14:47
Speaker 5: This week, but the membership as well.

00:14:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, just in terms of something that's been a common theme so far in the conversations a little bit has been consistency on the two courses for the championship over two days.

00:15:04
Speaker 2: How do you.

00:15:05
Speaker 1: Guys go about and Chris from your standpoint of weeks leading into the tournament, how are you you know, trying to achieve.

00:15:13
Speaker 2: That with what you're doing?

00:15:15
Speaker 1: And then Darren maybe you can rebut with you know, how you guys at the USGA attempt to do it week of or you know, days leading into it, it'd be interesting to see kind of the long range plan leading into the week of.

00:15:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think for us Andy the I mean, I would say for all Superintendent's one of the biggest things they push for every day is consistency throughout the property.

00:15:41
Speaker 5: And so.

00:15:43
Speaker 4: We treat you know, every green, every hole the same in terms of daily practices and scheduling in order to ensure that all the surfaces play is not only as good as they can, but as consistently as possible. And so you know, thankfully all thirty six holes operates out of the same shop with the same crew, and so didn't take a whole lot in terms of training and preparations for our guys, but really.

00:16:12
Speaker 5: Just kind of interacting with the Darren and.

00:16:16
Speaker 4: The rest of the USGA to define some objectives and then developing some programs and putting things in motion.

00:16:23
Speaker 5: To make sure that.

00:16:25
Speaker 4: We were able to achieve the results that the USGA wanted for the week of the Championship.

00:16:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I would say from a setup standpoint that.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: You know, and fortunately the greens.

00:16:41
Speaker 6: One both of these golf courses can handle similar speeds, so I think they'll be very close, but it's not necessarily from our perspective of both sets of greens need to be the same speed. But kind of like I said in a convoluted way earlier, I want Jack Rabbit to play the same on Thursday and Friday if possible, and the same with Cyprus Free. So from the us GA side, we're actually collecting putting green uh speed data every morning on every green, get additional readings in the afternoon to see, you know, are.

00:17:22
Speaker 3: They slowing down.

00:17:22
Speaker 6: Similarly, we're checking firmness every day again to just to make sure that our ranges are within reason on both golf courses. And you know, fortunately with the weather that you know, is currently here with cool temperatures, low do points. It really does make it nice to prepare putting greens because there's there's there's not a lot of surprises when the weather is like this.

00:17:53
Speaker 3: But it's just collecting a lot of data.

00:17:56
Speaker 6: It's getting feedback from our course up team in terms of you know, the the numbers are quantitative data, but it's the qualitative data that you hear from our core setup team to say that you know, hey, they're putting great, everything's working really well.

00:18:14
Speaker 3: We really like where we're at.

00:18:15
Speaker 6: So there's a there's a fuel component to it, and then there's a hard numbers component to it that we make work together.

00:18:27
Speaker 1: You sound like you know, a scout, you know, saying this guy passed the passes the eye test, and then you got the numbers too to back it up.

00:18:36
Speaker 3: Correct. It's very similar.

00:18:39
Speaker 6: Where again, you you have to have baselines to know, hey, did the greens get firmer, did they get softer, did they get faster, did they get slower? And if you don't have that, otherwise you're just guessing. So and it's it's common for someone to say, you know, what's the number today, and you know you give them a number and they say, oh, really, they feel faster than they were yesterday, and it's like, well, they may feel faster, but we have the data suggest they're pretty much the same as they were yesterday.

00:19:10
Speaker 1: So Darren, I'm curious that this is just a follow up in your experience with the USGA. Obviously, I imagine it's a huge advantage having both courses on the same property, and as you have alluded to, you know, Chris has done a good job. It's they're very consistent with each other, and then you know, the style of the greens is very consistent.

00:19:31
Speaker 2: Have there do any championships.

00:19:34
Speaker 1: Jump to mind where you maybe had host courses in different locales that made it, you know, extremely challenging, or you know, even had a weather event one place that you know, because oftentimes these host courses might be twenty minutes apart, where you had a weather event one place and nothing at the other course.

00:19:54
Speaker 6: I personally have not run into that situation with the weather yet, thankfully, but you know, I've certainly, you know, been in situations where you know, the golf courses maybe ten or twelve miles apart or even further, and.

00:20:10
Speaker 3: The golf courses can be completely different.

00:20:14
Speaker 6: You can have bent grass greens on one golf course and pola greens on the other, you know, an old style Donald Ross golf course with sharper contours and then a newer style you know golf course that's you know, flattered.

00:20:29
Speaker 3: Greens, and so yeah, it's.

00:20:34
Speaker 6: It is nice having one the same variety of grass on the putting greens and again being in a situation where both golf courses are run by the same golf course superintendent. So a lot of times when you're doing the two host site, one of the biggest challenges there's two completely different maintenance programs run by two completely different people. But in general it's it goes very smooth. If we've done the work that you know, we're supposed to do. Leading into a championship, it's generally not a problem. But again with the short lead in that we've had, I'm certainly glad that I'm rolling with the same guy on both golf courses for this Women's Open, that's for sure.

00:21:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely it's a it's a blessing, you know, with the venue you guys had set up that you weren't scrambling to find another course in town that could host it and champions had the ability to just say, oh, we could just do it at our other course. With kind of thinking about Chris from your standpoint, how would you describe, you know, the similarities and then also the differences in each golf course for viewers.

00:21:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, so again, one of you know, our founders, Jackie Burke and Jimmy Demerit, one of the things they were dead set on was bringing champions to Houston, Texas and bringing championship golf to the South.

00:22:14
Speaker 5: And so from from inception, they they kind of.

00:22:20
Speaker 4: Had a vision for both golf courses to be capable of hosting major championships and and so they also wanted to have a little bit of variety between the two.

00:22:31
Speaker 5: So so two different architects.

00:22:33
Speaker 4: From the beginning, Cypress Creek was a Ralph Plumber, very very big greens, and then you know, Jack Rabbit was built a few years later by George Fazio with again a little bit smaller greens, a little bit more contouring there. And then when Fazio readd Jack Rabbit nearly two thousands, really made an attempt to move as much earth as possible. We're still limited in Houston with how much topography we have to work with, but trying to provide a slight contrast between the two golf courses, but.

00:23:11
Speaker 5: Both great golf courses.

00:23:15
Speaker 4: And I'd say the biggest difference would be to me, putting greens on Cypress Creek average about ten thousand square feet apiece. We've got a couple of them up near fourteen thousand square feet, So just massive, relatively massive greens over there, and a little bit kinder complexes where I would say Jack Rabbit averages about sixty five hundred square feet of green, but a little bit more movement in the complexes, and I think with that can play a little bit more difficult depending on the conditions.

00:23:47
Speaker 5: For the ladies this week.

00:23:49
Speaker 4: So you know, the both courses played host to the amateur back in ninety three that we hosted, and so I'm excited to see Jack Rabbit kind of back in the spotlight and anxious to see how the ladies handle it this week.

00:24:03
Speaker 1: Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Toro. For more than a century with cutting edge turf equipment and irrigation solutions, Toro has had your front nine covered and your back nine two. In fact, Toro's always had your back period. Toro is as committed to your long term success as tour pros are committed to their shot. That's down to top notch customer service from Toro and it's dedicated local distributors, both of whom are passionate about delivering turf equipment and irrigation solutions that solve real world problems. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor today. Now back to Chris Ortmeier and Darren Bivard.

00:24:41
Speaker 2: Darren, in terms of.

00:24:45
Speaker 1: December date, how does it change, you know, the potential agronomic conditions for versus a May date.

00:24:55
Speaker 2: And I guess this is a question for both of you guys, like is there.

00:24:58
Speaker 1: Anything that you're really happy with? Like happy that it's in December for is there anything that you know you wish you had the Bay Day for if you could take the best of both worlds and you get, you know, one, a couple of things from May and a couple of things from December, what would they be.

00:25:15
Speaker 6: I'll start with the December date since we're here right now, the fact that we're prepping two golf courses and again trying to get volunteers and equipment and everything squared away. Bermuda grass isn't growing very aggressively right now, so it offers us some options to you know, not have to fully mow out both golf courses every day. We can remove due and on one course mow out the other course, and visually and from a playability standpoint, h they're both still really good. If we were you know, if you were two courses is in a May date, it would certainly you'd have.

00:26:02
Speaker 3: To mow both of them.

00:26:05
Speaker 6: But the other thing I believe is that the I think the performance of the greens with the weather right now is from really from what I've learned in the last you know, four or.

00:26:18
Speaker 3: Five six days, is very predictable.

00:26:22
Speaker 6: You're not going to get surges in growth of the grass and that affects speed and those type of things. So from that perspective, I think it's been very positive. Probably the one thing I wish I had from May was the rough with a frost that just hit early last week. The rough has gone off color, it's not growing as aggressively as it's not growing at all for the most part, so it may be a little more forgiving.

00:26:54
Speaker 3: Than a typical open setup.

00:26:57
Speaker 6: But and you know, I have to wear like three layers and gloves and everything in the morning.

00:27:04
Speaker 2: I could Chicago. You're not going to get any sympathy.

00:27:08
Speaker 3: From me, I hear you. But I could go for a little bit warmer temperatures in the morning.

00:27:14
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd say the same thing.

00:27:16
Speaker 4: The biggest difference being the weather, and I think there's pros and cons to both. Right, the spring early summer date would have provided much more predictability in terms of the range of temperatures we could have, as well as potential for inclement weather's pretty minimal. There where kind of long term planning coming into December. You know, we could be as high in Houston, we could be as high as eighty five or as low as twenty five. The wind can blow from every direction. You know, we got snow on December tenth in twenty seventeen. So that was the hard part for me, was I got to be prepared for anything because we could be you know, fortunately, we're cooler and it's not requiring you know, as much out of us to get the speeds and the conditions we need.

00:28:09
Speaker 5: But three weeks ago, you know, we.

00:28:12
Speaker 4: Could have been double cutting and rolling to try to get us where we need to be. And and I mean really the the rof didn't shut down until just last week we kind of had our first frost and where everything was still lush and growing, you know, I would say still still green. Uh you'll see on TV. It kind of shut everything down in the rough, which is nice. It's provided a pretty good look I feel like for the golf course that not many people get to see.

00:28:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, while the while the rough might be not be quite as thick, it could could be a little bit less predictable in a way, you know, and it almost might encourage people to try out, try out and try try for some shots they might not have if it was thicker.

00:29:00
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, absolutely, and it's it's certainly it's consistently inconsistent as.

00:29:12
Speaker 3: You go through the the golf course.

00:29:14
Speaker 6: So you could get the players could draw a lie where the balls you know, sitting up and looks great and you know, conversely it can sit down and the rough's kind of clumpy because it's not growing evenly anymore.

00:29:30
Speaker 3: And so yeah, it's gonna.

00:29:32
Speaker 6: Be you know, offer the situation too where somebody may think they have a better lie than they do and try to do something that.

00:29:42
Speaker 3: You know maybe they shouldn't so, and that you know, that's fun. It's it's fun to watch, and you know, part of the skill of the game is being able to.

00:29:52
Speaker 6: Read that lie in the rough and make a decision on how aggressive you can be.

00:29:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. Uh.

00:29:58
Speaker 1: I recorded a podcast US with Tom Doak last week about his uh, you know, Coarse Memorial Park, his renovation there, and he watched the Houston Open, obviously the first year they played, and he remarked about how how he didn't he I guess he didn't understand how unpredictable that Bermuda rough was going to be for the best players in the world. And I imagine compared to you know, the the thick, lush, pretty pretty penal, you know, it's what you see is what you're going to get. That Bermuda adds almost another layer of of of challenge for in the rough, for for the best players in the world.

00:30:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that's accurate. I mean, when you're you know, Kentucky.

00:30:42
Speaker 6: Bluegrass rye Grass rough, it's it's lush, it's thick, it's heavy, you know, especially I mean if you look back at wing foot in September for sure where the Bermuda is. You know, it's a little more unpredictable anyway, and it's I think it's really going to be unpredictable with just the fact that, again it's not growing aggressively. But they had done such a good job leading in of getting the rough up to the height that we thought we wanted. So it's still going to be thick. It's not like it's you know, it's not going to be a layup at all, that's for sure.

00:31:25
Speaker 1: Hey, Chris, you've had a you know, since you take over the job as director of agronomy there, you've had kind of a crazy you know, weather events, and now you've got the championship that you're preparing for that gets moved. I'm interested. How does the stress of a major championship week compared to that of a five hundred year flood with Hurricane Harvey.

00:31:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, both both were I would say both are stressed, and I'm trying to think back to kind of compare the two.

00:32:05
Speaker 5: You know, Harvey was about a year after another flood. So my first.

00:32:12
Speaker 4: Flood when I was here was kind of what we call the Tax Day floods, which was sixteen and that was, honestly not as much rain, but it fell in a shorter period of time and had significant silt deposits and things like that. And that's the first experience I had at all with kind of flood remediation on a golf course and so figuring out how to in a very short period of time, you know, remove all the silt deposits and all that was very stressful. Thankfully, through that event we had figured out the process so that when Harvey came, we kind of were a little bit more prepared. But nobody's prepared for thirty seven inches of rain to a certain degree. So you know, that one was definitely tough. The tournament, you know, in a slightly different regard. You know, I spent prior to my time here at champions spent several years at Colonial Country Club up in Fort Worth, and so thankfully had a little bit of a base in terms of kind of prepping for a large tournament. However, you know, PGA Tour versus USGA Championship, USJA Major is definitely different.

00:33:26
Speaker 5: Eighteen holes versus thirty six holes, So.

00:33:29
Speaker 4: You know, I, honestly, Andy, I would say both of them are tough, but It's been my experience and I've grown to really love preparing golf courses for championships.

00:33:41
Speaker 5: And to me, the higher the bar, the sweeter it feels.

00:33:48
Speaker 4: When it's over, when you can kind of work through everything and then ultimately kind of relish in the success of the event after the fact.

00:33:58
Speaker 3: So I.

00:34:01
Speaker 5: Would say that's how I compare.

00:34:03
Speaker 1: To Yeah, I imagine that that one is like you're just you're kind of a loathing, you know, stress.

00:34:11
Speaker 2: Of of the of the flood.

00:34:13
Speaker 7: And then you know, with a championship, it's more of an excited stress where you're you know, it's it's a lot of work, but it's you know, you're building towards something, and the other one you're just trying to pick up the pieces.

00:34:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:34:25
Speaker 4: Again, superintendents spend most of our careers mad at mother nature.

00:34:29
Speaker 3: So.

00:34:32
Speaker 5: That's that's probably not a typical.

00:34:35
Speaker 6: I think the other important thing about that, too, is that the stress of championship preparation is wanting to get it right and wanting to put everything out there absolutely as fast as you can, and you have a lot of time to plan for that stress, and you know, some of that stress I think we keep upon ourselves because we want to do a great job and we want the players to have a great experience.

00:35:10
Speaker 3: The stress that.

00:35:11
Speaker 6: Comes from mother nature is stress that we don't have any control over, and it's hard to plan for. So, I you know, working championships, Andy, I've been involved in both where I'm worried about the stress from weather and I'm worried about the stress for just course preparation, you know, all wound up into one. And I'll tell you I'll take the stress for course preparation every time because I feel like I have a little bit more control over that.

00:35:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've adgined that the weather app refresh rate is always high for you, Chris, like any week my wife. I think every golfer pays attention to the leather more than like.

00:35:53
Speaker 2: My wife always makes fun of me.

00:35:54
Speaker 1: She's like, you always know what's going on in the weather, and I'm like, well, you know, cut it. But like for a superintendent, you already do that a ton, But for a championship week, for both of you guys, it's just got to be like every like hour occurrence.

00:36:08
Speaker 2: Huh.

00:36:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, I will say it's extremely nice. The USJA has an on site meteorologist here and Jake gives our updates every day and he's been extremely accurate. So it does slightly reduce the amount of time I spend on my phone staring at models. But there's almost kind of a because of the comfort level that I've developed with kind of I guess acclimating to the apps that I look at year round. Even with the on site professional, I still find myself corroborating that with the apps and all the things that I normally do.

00:37:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, and from from my perspective, it's funny when you talk about the refreshed rate on the weather apps. When you look at the seven day forecast or the ten day forecast and it's favorable, you look at it and you go, man, that is great. This is gonna be awesome. And when you look at it and it's unfavorable, you say, oh, but that's seven or eight days away.

00:37:23
Speaker 3: It can change. So it's it's, uh, you know, when it looks good, you kind of think, you know, okay, this is spot on.

00:37:30
Speaker 6: When it looks bad, you hope it changes, and you know, you just deal with it as it comes.

00:37:36
Speaker 1: I guess it's like the all that well forty percent chance to right. I mean that's sixty percent chance that it won't rain.

00:37:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:37:44
Speaker 6: Unfortunately the USGA for our championships, we we don't have a good track record with the sixty percent chance that it won't range.

00:37:52
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's uh, I agree with that. It's it always seems right.

00:37:58
Speaker 1: But hey, Darren, with you from your perspective from an agronomic sense, you know, do you guys approach women's championships and men's the same or is there slight differences in how you prepare the course for the different styles of play or is it pretty uniform.

00:38:22
Speaker 6: The our preparation Realistically, for all of our championships, we try to have a consistent philosophy, consistent protocols. Obviously it's a matter of degree, But I would say for respective championships Andy, for Women's Open versus Men's Open, there is no difference in the agronomic preparation. Now, there may be difference of course set up, the rough may not be as tall, obviously you're not playing the golf course as long in those type of things. But from an agronomic perspective, no, there's not, you know, there's we put every bit as much thought and effort into the the Ladies Championships as we do there, you know, male counterparts. So it's it's all about challenging the best players in the world, and you know, it's it's about having a healthy golf course when we've done, when we're done as well, you know, we're here for a week.

00:39:30
Speaker 3: We're a guest.

00:39:31
Speaker 6: Chris gets to pick up the pieces on December fourteenth and has the membership champions to then please as well. So we're very respectful of you know, hopefully leaving the golf course in really good condition when we get out of here.

00:39:49
Speaker 3: But now it's uh, you know, speeds on these greens.

00:39:53
Speaker 6: Obviously the greens are different Indy, but in terms of actual speeds they'll be every bit as fast as they were for the US.

00:40:00
Speaker 1: So mm hm with uh with the Cypress course, Uh, what are some holes in particular? You guys are excited to watch play out just for the viewers obviously, Jack Rabb Scott, but you know, more listeners of this will probably see a lot more of Cypress Creek.

00:40:24
Speaker 5: Darren, you want to go first, you want me to take it?

00:40:27
Speaker 6: I'll go first because I'm just sitting here as he's asking the question TOI get my head. I'm excited to watch number six, Part four with the water hazard or penalty area of front right really along the whole right hand side of the green.

00:40:46
Speaker 3: If you, if you, you know, get moving.

00:40:49
Speaker 6: Right a little bit, it's pretty easy for that hazard to come into play. And probably the thirteenth hole, I'm just interested because it's kind of a mite off as much as you can shield on the t shot as you hit it down the you know, hit it down that golf all so I'm interested to see how they play the hole. Those those are the two that I would pick out.

00:41:21
Speaker 5: Yeah, both both those are gonna be good.

00:41:22
Speaker 4: I would add number four, which is a long part three over the creek, over Cypress Creek with some with some challenging whole locations that because of the length, and then the kind of greens contour is going to have to kind of work a bowl in the front part of the green a little bit. It'll be anxious to see then play that one. And then I would probably say fourteen as well. Fourteen similar to six, as Darren describe, a longer part four with water front left of the green, but again one of the biggest actually it is the biggest green on Cyprus at about fourteen thousand square feet, and so you know, just because you're on the green, that's necessarily mean you've got an easy ride home.

00:42:14
Speaker 5: So those would be the two that I'm looking forward to seeing.

00:42:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, fourteenth seems like it could play wildly different depending on where you guys put the pin.

00:42:23
Speaker 6: Mm hmm, Yeah, it's it's both of those wholes six and fourteen. Not surprisingly, the Greens work towards the water, so again the players would have to be careful. But one thing I've learned is they're really really good at what they do.

00:42:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're The precision is just unbelievable at the from from the women professionals, it is astonishing to watch. It's they're so good at what they do. It's out of this world.

00:43:02
Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun to watch.

00:43:04
Speaker 1: All Right, we got to get a story time in, Chris. I know this, I'm putting you on the spot here, but I need your best Jackie Burke story.

00:43:14
Speaker 5: Oh geez, I'm not a good storyteller, But Andy, do you know mister Burke? Have you met him before?

00:43:25
Speaker 1: I've not met him. I've read a decent amount of it. I've had some friends that have met him playing doubt at that Champions Cup, but they say he's just incredible guy.

00:43:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, So again, anybody that knows him knows that one. He's from a different generation, right. He's ninety seven years old. He was a marine, played professionally through the fifties early sixties, had an accomplished playing career Masters champion, PGA champion. But he's ninety seven years old and he's still at work seven days a week at ten am or nine thirty, kind of on the money and just eats, sleeps and breeze golf. So kind of the story I'd say I've been telling here lately is going back to what Darren talked about with kind of date change to December focus, you know, on conditions and how we prepare the golf courses. And one of the things we quickly identified was growing up the rough, and to us, one of the best ways we did that and preserved it was to put carts on path early. So October one we decided we're going cart path only both golf courses, and so October second and third rolls around, and of course we've got some unhappy members that are kind of struggling to be able to even play with some physical limitations and things like that. And so Thursday afternoon staff meeting rolls around and we're in there kind of talking about options and handicapped flags and you know, how do we try to manage that and keep people honest and everything else. And mister Burke's sitting there and he kind of looks up at the group and straight faced as he can be, says, you know, what kind of a pansy do you have to be to put up handicapped flag on the back of your golf cart. I mean, that's got to be the most embarrassing thing you can do.

00:45:37
Speaker 5: And you know, again, I.

00:45:41
Speaker 4: Would say for most golfers, if they have the opportunity to have a handicapped flag and get off the path and play the golf course that way, they'll take it every chance they can get. I would say most places they struggle with doctors writing notes for each other to have a handicapped flag.

00:45:58
Speaker 5: And here mister Burke is ninety seven years old.

00:46:01
Speaker 4: A true marine and textan that takes a lot of pride.

00:46:06
Speaker 5: In what he does.

00:46:07
Speaker 4: Uh, And you know, me and the head pro kind of looked at each other and we just kind of take.

00:46:13
Speaker 2: Cards you guys are thinking, so how do we message this?

00:46:19
Speaker 3: Sure?

00:46:20
Speaker 5: And again there was a couple of other explicitives in there, but I'll leave.

00:46:24
Speaker 1: So dared, I'd love to hear kind of I guess like maybe your favorite you probably got so many, but one of your favorite championship memories from your uh, from your long history with the usgah, whether it be pre setup or during or post championship.

00:46:47
Speaker 3: Oh boy, that's a tough one. Andy. You kind of put me on the spot.

00:46:54
Speaker 2: I know, I know, putting both of you on the spot.

00:47:00
Speaker 6: You know it's probably and thinking about the US Open at Marion in two thousand and thirteen, sitting in there was a lot of debate about certain greens, obviously number five in particular, and Matt Schaefer, who's the golf court superintendent there, if you know, who's very colorful to begin with.

00:47:29
Speaker 3: It's four thirty in the morning and.

00:47:33
Speaker 6: We're having a conversation about whether or not we're going to roll the fifth green or not, and Matt's starting to raise his voice. I mean, Matt and I have a great relationship, still great friends. And John Zimmers at the time as a superintendent Oakmont is now Inverness looks over and he goes, Darren, I think, if you don't give in, Matt is gonna yell it. And I thought him, I said, well, he can yell at me all at once, because Matt Schafer's name is not on the bottom of my pay check. So anyway, after some long conversations, the decision is finally made that we will indeed roll the Fifth Green and Andy. I just remember going out there for the first groups that came through.

00:48:19
Speaker 3: And sitting in the grand stand. I was the only one there. There's nobody else.

00:48:23
Speaker 6: There, and watching to make sure that the whole location still worked after we had rolled the Greed.

00:48:30
Speaker 3: So unfortunately, most of my memories.

00:48:33
Speaker 2: Are you know, the anxiety level.

00:48:39
Speaker 6: Anxiety level being extremely high, there's no doubt about it. But yeah, that's I remember that one in particularly, just just because you've got John Zimmers, who's you know, a great superintendent, there's own right sitting there stirring the pot between me and Matt Schaeffer, and so there's always trouble making around.

00:49:01
Speaker 1: I had a couple buddies that worked for Matt Schaefer who ended up in Chicago and their respective clubs and their Matt Schaefer stories were adadless.

00:49:11
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:49:12
Speaker 6: Well, and yet Scott Bordner who came out to Chicago Golf Club for a while. Brian Palmer, Yeah, but you know it's funny though, real quick. The story that Chris told about mister Burke. I remember, I think it was the second time that I was here. I was on the eighth green and looking at something or whatever and mister here's mister Burke. You know, I've met him a couple of different times. He's the owner of Champions Golf Club. He can do whatever he wants to do. And he pulls up in his golf cart. He stops on the path, gets out of the cart, and walks over to where.

00:49:56
Speaker 3: We're all standing.

00:49:56
Speaker 6: The thought of driving that golf cart, you know, anywhere that it didn't belong, just never occurred to him, and it made a heck of an impression on me that morning that you know, hey, here's somebody that really gets or you know, walks the walks and and speak. So it definitely it's been fantastic getting to know him a little bit.

00:50:22
Speaker 1: My uncle was a golf pro and I remember playing around with him when I was younger and we were in carts, and I parked the cart like, you know, a yard away from a car path, and and I'll never forget him him saying to me, he goes, you know, Andy, I'm glad you parked that there. I was talking to the pro beforehand at this course and he was telling me that the membership's really worried about the car.

00:50:48
Speaker 2: Pass gang worn out.

00:50:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's they are.

00:50:54
Speaker 1: And every time every time I'm near a car path and a cart, I think about that.

00:50:59
Speaker 2: That's the first thing that comes into my head. And you know, I've used it a few times on my buddies. But hey, I have a.

00:51:07
Speaker 1: Really stupid this is a stupid question, but I've always thought about it. And this is something that I've wondered. When you're in between days, right, do you guys cut new cups but you have the same pin on the same course, you know, for Thursday and Friday with this split setup and you mow and roll the greens every morning? Do you cut a new cup? How does that work? Or is the cup just stay there? This is a dumb question. I've gonna sound like an idiot, but I just have always wondered about this.

00:51:42
Speaker 3: It stays word is no new cup, no jack Gravit will have it.

00:51:47
Speaker 6: You know, on Thursday and Friday, we'll have the same whole location and unless they're we inspect the cups and everything andy to make sure there's no damage or no problem.

00:51:57
Speaker 3: But as long as the cup is in good shape, they'll.

00:52:00
Speaker 6: Be in the same spot on Cipherston Jack Rabbit both Thursday and Friday.

00:52:04
Speaker 2: So to get any new paint nothing, Nope.

00:52:07
Speaker 6: Yeah, we definitely repaint them all right, touch them up, make sure they look good. So but yeah, absolutely, we put a new code of paint on them.

00:52:16
Speaker 2: I was just curious something I've always thought about.

00:52:18
Speaker 1: It's like they do they put it back in, mow it and then recut it or is it just they just leave it as is.

00:52:27
Speaker 3: Yeah. We just always always tell the maintenance team, whether it's a mower or roller, make sure you go center cut over the cup, nothing on the ads or whatever. So but yep, they stay in the same spot and usually it works out pretty good.

00:52:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. All right, Well, hey guys, you guys have a busy week.

00:52:49
Speaker 1: I want to get you out of here so you can get back to much more important things than talking to me. But congratulations on getting this all worked out and and I can't wait to watch this week and uh and I'm hoping for for a great weather and no rain for you guys.

00:53:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:53:08
Speaker 6: Thanks from my perspective, really appreciate it, and I really appreciate the time. And I'm excited to watch the championship unfold.

00:53:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, Andy, thanks a bunch for having me on. Really enjoyed the talk.