Saturday Sickos: All-Underrated Offense

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Speaker 1: It's a tough sports not for everybody.

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Speaker 2: You gotta be a little sick to love this game.

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Speaker 1: And we got some sicos.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to NFL Daily where yes, it is a Saturday Sickos Show, Episode two. Thank you to Josh Allen for introducing us each and every Saturday. It's me and it's Ali Connolly over in Manchester, England. He has been grinding the tape and we got a fun show. Ali. We are doing an all underrated team only on the offense today because we decided we would go too long to try to stick in an entire team.

00:00:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, even just defense. My eyes naturally with my background, go to the defensive side of the bowl. We would probably spend two hours just on linebackers. And I know, I'm so happy the cicicos can all join us. All the people doing the Saturday commutes tridging into wood seeing we need daily on the weekends sickos can unite here we are.

00:00:51
Speaker 3: I love it. So wait, did you scout defense more when it was your job or that's just naturally what you like?

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Speaker 1: Yes, six years exclusively as a linebackers scout just linebackers and then yeah, you filter everything through what the linebacker just kind of feeds into everything else, and how people attack them is kind of how I view the offensive side of the game. So yes, more defense than offense.

00:01:14
Speaker 3: That really outlines some of your analysis over the years. You've been good on like Edgerrin Cooper, and you do just the light goes on in your eyes when you're talking linebackers. We'll get to the defense, well, I think we'll do that next week because I love this exercise. We'll go through the offensive positions. Ali's going to carry me on the offensive line. I don't want to start with quarterback because that was the toughest one for me, and I don't just want to start where I struggled. So why don't we start with the running back position? And I will let you go first, like we can give extra people their flowers. So if you know, if you want to mention the honorable mentions that you consider that, that's totally fine. But start off with who is your all underrated running back?

00:01:56
Speaker 1: This is difficult because it's difficult to know where to place the what is rated pop Where does some more fall in the underrated versus overrated? Because I feel as Devon ay Chan's season is kind of been underrated. His start just graze underrated almost historically, and the play style is different. The guy I just keep returning to is being like, I think this guy really really has the goods is Kyle Manongai. And it's tough to throw a rookie onto an all underrated team, but I feel like we're overlooking at us so slightly. How impressive he's been as a fifth round pick stepping into that offense.

00:02:28
Speaker 3: That is great, and I would I would like to go back to h and for a little so Managui runs with a ton of juice. What else do you see? Just you know from like learning the position perspective that that's impressed you as a rookie.

00:02:44
Speaker 1: The aggressiveness is the thing that just pops of, like whoa. This guy attacks the line like very few people. And when you see DeAndre Swift, who is way more hesitant, he's got more top end speed, he's more of the home run hitter, Manonguy just comes down with violence like very few guys you see walk the league and just like pop people on first contact. As a rookie, you don't see that all that often. And it's really the pass pro stuff you get the real downside with DeAndre Swift, so much of the more complicated protections, particularly in the play action game. The way they build it is like there's one standalone bag. He has a full scan read at the field. So it's a difficult assignment because you got to read the entire thing and be kind of the plus one ad into protection, but you also get a full panoramic view of what's happening in front of you, and you go through the DeAndre Swift snaps, it's like, well, this thing is a roller coaster. He's in the wrong spot all the time. Then Kalamanunga rolls on the field. He's in the right spot every single time, and he makes a bunch of mistakes there and he whiffs. But to just be in the correct place as a rookie walking into the league is like a really difficult step for a lot of these guys to get to you. So I am really really bullish on what his future looks like.

00:03:43
Speaker 3: So you think they have found their version of David Montgomery for lack of a better comp They've kind of found the thunder that's gonna be there, and you think, like, what is the ceiling for this guy in this Ben Jonson offense over the next few.

00:03:57
Speaker 1: Years, probably being like the frustrating fancy guy because the exciting player isn't on the field as much as you want and he vulges all the touchdowns in the red zone. Is what I imaged is he's gonna be Whiles Ben Jones, Like, I'm never letting this guy leave the building. He's just the f Like eight years running contract off to contract is what I see him looking like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's OK. Hey, if if David Montgomery is the ceiling, that's a pretty good ceiling, even for fantasy. By the way, like he helped my son Walker to a couple titles a couple of years ago. And yeah, there is something about running backs where like you you can't teach there's no metric exactly for runs his face off per snap, but manung guy is super high and very often it is the young running backs that lead the league in that h Chan is a different style of runner. I don't know why I've like maybe been too low on him compared to consensus over the years. Is the year that he won me over. He should have won it before. But as like a totally complete back, what have you seen just in terms of his development, if we're going I give him an honorable mention.

00:05:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think him just being viewed as a speed guys become like slightly outdated over the past eighteen months. That he really does have toughness between the tackles. It's not like he's gonna do the manunguy stuff as you mentioned, kind of just run through people's faces, but there is real wiggle and vision and creativity in the hole and making guys miss and you can bounce to the outside and go make plays. But having started in the interior line where it used to be, Yeah, they would just kind of try and throw it to him in the flow, or they try and get mut a toss something towards the permits. They do feature him a lot more between the tackles now, and you still see the crazy juice.

00:05:32
Speaker 3: Okay, So I considered a few people, though they were not among them. I kind of like yours. I was like, is Jalen Warren still underrated? I've always loved Jalen Warren. I think he's been as good or better this year than ever. He just forces miss tackles. Javonte Williams is such a big story this season, but it's almost like he's gotten thrown in with the entire Cowboys offense. He's he's better, I think than he's ever been, and better than I thought he could be. I mean, this is a guy. When I was at Cowboys training camp, everyone there was telling me Miles Sanders was gonna be the way I want to start. It's like, what, but I'm gonna go with a second year player, quibanie Videll. I love me a and you look very surprised, and I like that. I love me a guy that can do everything well as like a late round draft pick. And maybe I'm a little, you know, too much of a prisoner of the moment coming off a game against the Raiders where you know, he busted a million miss force tackles. But when I went back through like his tape, he's forced a ton of miss tackles all year. He's in the top you know, five or six in terms of miss tackles force per. You know, run and he presses the hole like he's pretty patient. But when he makes a decision to go like he goes. He's good in pass protection, Like I did watch a decent amount of that, and I was trying to think of like a comparison there was. There was a play against Devin Lloyd against the Jaguars where he just does a stutter and go, and so he was like a little more juice than I expected. He is not a guy to build an entire running game around, but whatever they wanted out of Naja Harris, to me, he can be a long term, really good one bee, so to get that out of your sixth round pick, and I think he is my kind of guy. I was trying to think of a comp for him long term, maybe not exactly playing style, but a bigger guy who almost plays in some ways like a smaller guy more agile, like a Chester Taylor type who was the backup to Jamal Lewis and then became the guy for a year or two in Minnesota. But it's just good in a tandem. I like kimani Vidal and I know the Chargers like him a lot, and I think he's gonna be there as a nice one bee behind Hampton over the next couple of years.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really fun, good shout the past person. I'm not as there with you on that. So he's an interesting one where the f is all out. I can't quite tell if he knows he's blocking the right guy or not, and it's hot to tell with that group anyway. The whole thing is just like shell within two seconds. So it's just demolition derby in the backfield and you can't figuret who was supposed to be picking up who. I got a sense based on some of the post hit reactions that guys look at him going where will you? Why you stood over there? So he actually, like one on one, is he willing? Does he wants he up for the fight? I will co sign that. The picking things up and being in the right positions I think is still a challenge. But hey, the profile you just kind of read out at the player is what everyone is looking for. And that's why people don't go and spend the sixth overall pick on running backs because you can pick up a commandy via the later in the draft.

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Speaker 3: Right. And he's not a guy, And I know he had the fifty yard touchdown and he's had some big plays, but I don't think of him as some sort of speed guy. But so many of his good plays this year is where he reads the play correctly that he should just bounce it right away and he does beat everyone to the edge in the In the Steelers game, for instance, that was more up the middle, but Patrick Queen must have missed four tackles against him.

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Speaker 2: And I know Patrick Queen, Yeah, that's not the craziest thing I know, but that was one game, Like he literally could not tackle kimani bydel So I just feel like he hasn't gotten a lot of poppy.

00:09:07
Speaker 3: Was not a guy I thought had much upside. I'm not even sure the Chargers did either, because he bounced around on their practice squad and he was not in the plans for this year, but I liked him a lot. Quinshawn Juggins is another guy who's who I just think, in a better system, would would be living it up. We saw him live and like, who would you take right now? Between Judkins and Ashton gent Y long term?

00:09:29
Speaker 1: Not close. I would take Queen Shawn Judkins. I honestly think that if Queen Shawn Judkins just played behind a stable, okayish offensive line, that he would already be considered like the fullth or fifth best back in the league. Behind those guys you can just do everything. He's not gonna be the guy who can do everything for you. But in terms of everyone, every single fan base going, why don't we have a guy like that on all team? I think he just put down in a stable group. That's why he'd be out already.

00:09:53
Speaker 3: So he he could probably fit because I do not think that the average fan and he just hasn't got a lot of popping and the numbers even for fantasy like for instance, haven't been great of late. But I totally agree. I am convinced he is going to be a real deal top ten back for a while. So he's underrated as well. But I figured for the exercise, let's give some shouts to some lesser known guys. Let's go to receiver, give me your well, let's just start with one receiver each. We'll go back and forth.

00:10:20
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Kaishambuti, who I feel is almost been He's almost being tossed in as like part of what we've seen with Drake May, people will throw into the conversation. I know you love a conversation is like Drake May's downfield targets. An outrageous look how out of control Drake May is throwing the ball down the field, and it's not quite added on at the end of sentence, how good Kaisham Boti is being to complete that stuff. These are tight, tight window throws. He does not create a ton of separation, but he's got unbelievable hands, late hands, separates really late in the route, which is the way to do it down the field, and you just go through his like epay per target figures and he's putting monster production. It's like him and then JSN every filthy, but it's him at JSN and everyone knows what a dominant season Jaysn is having. But I feel like Booty's kind of getting almost hamstrung as though it's because of Drake may As opposed to his own excellence.

00:11:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was one of my two receivers as well. Some of the numbers are crazy. I mean, he's only had forty two targets this year. He did miss some time with an injury. Of those thirty catches that first of all he's catching, he caught thirty out of forty two passes, which you know, it's over seventy percent and the average up the target is seventeen yards down the field. That is just an insane combination. So he has sixteen explosives and you're right, Like if he ever separates, it's like in the last half second, like whether he somehow uses his physicality to get away from the receiver. We do have if you're watching on YouTube, we love you, like the touchdown against the Dolphins, and this is nothing more than like when the ball's in the air, he really locates it well. And this is one where he like almost ducks under the defender at the last second. So I don't know why it's an underrated skill, like how good you are at literally catching the ball? But he is excellent at that. He beat kool aid mckinnistry a couple of times in the Saints game with some tough grabs, and I'm with you. You know what's sninky about him too. He's only twenty three years old, so like he came into the season, I think they believed he would be the guy that he is. He was kind of their starting X from the first day of training camp and they said, no, really, he is going to be that guy. And yeah, I think part of it is he is younger than people realize and maybe has a higher ceiling than people realize.

00:12:30
Speaker 1: And funny because he's drafted almost in the Belichick you mold member, Bill, you slove taking the guys who are like high school superstars and the creer wasn't quite what you wanted to be in college. And he's like, I'll bet on the athlete, the lethleticism, and we'll coach it up, and we'll draft Dominic Geazley with no knees in the first round. It feels like that kind of throwback with Booty. What's interesting is forty percent of his route to go bulls. But and that puts me in the bracket of like a Marvin Mims and a Taekwon Thulton, where it's just a true down the field berner to create space for everyone else. And Yeah, I think he's just way more advanced developed in that. I think the late Hans stuff that grabs the tight window catches. He almost has more of an all around Jordan Nunnison type mold frame, but just plays the ball infinitely better, and I think with more tenacity and aggression than out the side does.

00:13:14
Speaker 3: Yeah. I looked at like the contested catch numbers because I just figured they would be good. He actually had less targets than I expected. He was five for seven, which is an incredible percent According to PFF, and those numbers can be a little wonky. And one thing I noticed is like like half of the top receivers in the league were Patriots, like to Mario Douglass was somehow near the top of that list. Mac Collins has been been good, so May puts it in a good spot, and his receivers have been doing a good job for m all right, that was one of my two receivers. I'm gonna go with the more obvious, like underrated, but it's it's been a tweet that I've just we retweeted of myself every once in a while this season. So that's what you know, you really are putting your flag on the ground. It's Alan Alec Pierce because I my line is, no matter how good you think al Pierce is, he's still probably better. And you know he started the season. He only had one catch in Week one and it was a throw I remember that I put up as a Throw of the Year nominee against I think it was the Dolphins. But the catch is so awesome too. And one thing you notice looking at Pierce's film is how quickly he beat so many cornerbacks right off the snap, So he is good at releases like he beat Razia Douglas on that play. He turns inside the balls to his outside. It's a good ball by Daniel Jones to get away from Minka Fitzpatrick, and he locates it so well in the air, like in terms of size and speed in ball skills. To me, he's just everything you want. So I'm gonna be fascinating to see what kind of money he gets if the Colts let him get to the free agent mark. I just don't think they will. They'll have to franchise tag him if they don't give him a monster contract.

00:14:54
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that because you have to put your annual freezens lists together and it's a pretty shallow pool if you go look at it this season, and so I imagine his agent, he's gonna be twenty six going to next season. You can't teach that kind of size and speed blend. They go hunting for these guys and they draft every single season. You end up with Dante Thornton not getting a single snap essentially for the Raiders. You can go and build in a ready made I mean he has if you go through some of the next gym figures on like average speed. He's like the second quickest guy in the NFL on a per step basis, so to be able to go and find that kind of production, I do wonder if they're gonna have a tough time bringing him back. If they've got to do the Jones contract, I guess that pot committed because they're gonna have to bring Joe's back. They did the Sauce deal. But if he does hit the markets, it's probably gonna be a pretty tasty deal.

00:15:37
Speaker 3: Well, Ady Mitchell was supposed to be. I think the backstop to probably well, we probably can't play pay Alec Pierce. You know they want Josh Downs is another guy that should be there long term. They've already paid Pittman. But now that you traded Adie Mitchell and that didn't work out, I think that has to work. What have you seen out of him becoming a little more of a complete receiver now the routes where he does do different things, like he has a good contested catch against her tan going across the middle, like he like stand out to me. But then when I went back for this exercise and went through it, maybe he wasn't quite as versatile as he thought. He still was a little more like he does moss people. That's what he does best and and that is the most exciting part of his game. What do you think about how he's developed in his career.

00:16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see any of that development. I think sometimes we tried to pat ourselves in the back to the like we know ball and we watch more film than other people. It's like, no, really, he does just do the go deep stuff.

00:16:34
Speaker 3: Less of it. There was way less of it than I expected. But when when he does it, it does it great. There was another play last week which are our Ace producer Eric has Ready, where he beats Kamari Lassiter for the tough Again. It's it's just so fast and so that that's the combination where it's not like he's a stiff coming off the line of scrimmage. Uh. He wins like immediately and makes catch. I love me some Alex Pierce. All right, give me your second wide receiver on your team, assuming you're at least lining up two wide receivers. You're not going to go in like a three tight end formation or anything. I really wanted to. Then I looked at my tight ends on my We're gonna be pretty slow. I don't know how we're gonna move the ball. I'm gonna stay with the Colts and go with Josh Downs. I know he's like incredibly well known and he's almost become almost a meme of like could you get more production out of him? I just think there's so much more to his game than they even use him. They are kind of pigeonholed with pierces the go shut guy. Downs is coming off the field slightly more now because they want to get some more two tighten stuff. It limits what he can do with the top of their route in out twitch in the middle of the field. I just think he is so true vintage what we used to have as a slot receiver. Now everyone's a power slot and it's straight London. It's these big guys, it's Puka Nakua.

00:17:47
Speaker 1: And he just to me is in the old school moll of Julian Edelman. You line him up in the slot, they get a two way go on a slot guy, liquid hips. No one can keep up with him and he's just opened consistently.

00:17:57
Speaker 3: Liquid hips. Is that like a new term or I probably stole.

00:18:01
Speaker 1: That from DJ in like twenty twelve.

00:18:03
Speaker 3: I imagine liquid liquid hips. I wish someone would tell me I had liquid hips. That's amazing. Yeah, I love me some Josh Downs. I fell way more in love with him actually when I was studying Drake May in college and I realized, like, like, the biggest difference between one year to the next is he doesn't have Josh Downs. And Josh Downs is incredible. Not that I didn't love him in the NFL, but you really saw his potential there at UNC and he makes a ton of catches away from his frame. This isn't just like I mean, there's the one against the Texans, which is probably the most common one that people will have seen, which is the sideline grab where it's over the shoulder and he goes and gets it off the sideline essentially.

00:18:43
Speaker 1: But he plays so much bigger than he actually is. He is not typically my kind of guy. I like my receivers who come in and do the dirty work and they get involved in the action. Someone like Puck who's really invested in the blocking game, someone like Drake London, Jacoby mayas those kind of guys typically where I look with the underrated A think justh Downs is a real gravitational pull on a defense and yet they don't quite scheme around him in that kind of way. I think they leave a bunch of production on the field with him.

00:19:08
Speaker 3: So Booty was my number two on this team. The other guy just want to give a shout out and not saying like you're going to build an offense around him. But how about Wandell Robinson just being in the top ten of receivers in the NFL. How about Wandell Because when I watched them the last few years and they like it almost became a joke how he was their entire offense last year a seven yard pass to Wandel Brom But I always thought like, well, that's not his fault and he can play a role for a good team and they're asking him to do more. But the fact that like he's doing a little more downfield, he has had a few more contested catches, it's not a great idea to do that. He has gotten leveled on some throws from Jackson Dart and Jamis Winston this year and he hasn't come up with all of them, but he has held on to a different amount. I just like he is maximizing the guy that I think Wandell Robinson can be he's gonna end up with like a twelve hundred yards season thrown into his career. So shout out to Wander Robinson, just give.

00:20:05
Speaker 1: My guy in that carrier will be Jacoby Mayas, who I know you've discussed a bunch on the show. He gets an addo amount of love on NFL Daily for that that kind of player, but his toughness in the middle of the field and him joining the Jackson Them saying, now our offense is built around you and Brenton Strange. That is the offense. Forget Brian Thomas Junior. Travis Hunter's gone down. Liams like, I finally have my guy. It was Jacoby Mayas all along and now the offense works. That to me is pretty cool.

00:20:30
Speaker 3: Okay, Wait, so is Brenton Strange one of your tight ends because he is one of mine.

00:20:35
Speaker 1: I feel like he almost has to be. Because the underrated aspect is that Leam Cohen got to Jacksonville. We're all excited about them trading up for Travis Hunter. Them having Brian Thomas Junior, who just looks so sensational as a rookie, was completely uncoverable as a rookie, was basically open every other play when he was like investing in running what they're asked him to do. Liam Cohen gets says, like, I am, I'd be in the lab. I'm one of the geniuses of the league, and I've decided to design my entire offense around Brenton Strange. That was what he came up without it and it worked. And then Brentan Strange goes down and the offense doesn't work. He returns, it works again.

00:21:06
Speaker 3: So when you say they design their entire offense out of Brenton Strange, maybe explain for the listeners how you mean that. Because even though he has been productive and he you know, he missed that month with the injury and immediately productive when he comes back, it's not like off the charts production. So when you say the whole offense is kind of a round Strange, what do you mean by that?

00:21:26
Speaker 1: What they do with formationally, with the strength of the formation, how they get to their base run game, or the pulling of movement and creativity they want to do is based on him being the guy who can pin and play like a tackle, so you can pull a move guys around him as though you had no lineman in the then you get the overlay of the play action and being pretty neutral and balanced in your drop back game because you feel like he can threaten the seam too. And it's the exact same description of Kate. Often it's can you block on the move? Can you sit and pin like an offensive tackle when we're up with the line of scrimmage, and can you slice across the formation of what people on the move? Those are usually two separate skill set with tight ends. The NFL is either the big guys who blog and can drive people vertically, or you get more of the Dallas Gotta who is an unbelievable blocker on the move. Those are two distinct skill sets. Typically, he can do it all and so it opens up every single thing you want to do as an offense is only viable because one guy can do three key functions for the entire like build of the offense.

00:22:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he was my first thought for this too, So I started looking like, are they using him differently than a year ago? Now? In terms of him being like in line or in the slot, it's about the same. He's sixty percent in line, he's twenty five percent in the slot. You know, they put him in the backfield or out wide a significant amount of plays. But certainly he's not majoring in that, and it wasn't that different before. But he's moving. He just moves really fluid.

00:22:45
Speaker 1: He is.

00:22:45
Speaker 3: He has great ball skills. I mean, Trevor Lawrence's percentage is throwing to Breton Strange are so much higher than anyone else. And they're not all short passes like he's come up with some ground balls. He's come up with some high throws from Trevor Lawrence. So he's good at that. And you know, to my eye, he is a good blocker, like a very good blocker in the running game that I've seen, and it's just maybe the prototype of like, yeah, tight ends take take a minute to really develop. It's such a hard position and I've loved watching him this year. Give me another one of your tight ends.

00:23:18
Speaker 1: Has to be Aj Barner with the Seahals, which is a very similar thing with Cohen and Strange, as with Kubiak and bon Who gets to Seattle and they've got all the fun pieces on the permitter and he's like, I'm going to design the offense around Aj Bonner. The we have to have tight ends staying to block a hoole bunch. They developed this true undescented drop back passing game, trying to throw it back to like the nineties every single time. For the first eight weeks this season, they dropped back from one ascent to which was a decent amount. Donald's eyes were immediately on AJ Barnett. That was all they were looking to do, is the payoff play of us selling that it's even going to be play action. So there's like a bit of a delay in what we're going to do as a defense or fitting up against. The room was just to try and find AJ Bonne down the scene. That's like the entire point of the offense. I would just would not have expect to go into a year that that would have been one of their like a plus game planances we gotta find Bonner. That's just not what you would have thought. No, not at all.

00:24:10
Speaker 3: So I'm curious at the comparison of these two guys because maybe I'm overstadi it. But if I made a list, is Breton strange to me? Just quality? He might be a top ten all around tight end. Now I think he is. Is AJ Barner potentially getting to that level of overall play possibly?

00:24:32
Speaker 1: I think strangers significantly better running off the ball on the blocking game. You can do more with him in the blocking game was with Bonn and they tried to get him some kind of help or the tried to cheat the mechanics to get him out of there as quickly as possible. Whereas I just think there's more on the menu with Brenton Strange as sentence, I never thought I would say it's like everything is on the menu because Brenton Strange is on your team. I think Bonn is a little bit more limited. But still if you look at the top ten guys, to me, it's a distinction of do we have a play making guy. That's the number one thing anyway, I don't care if we can do everything. If we've got a better guy than they have, I'd Robert has have Trey McBride, l sem Lapoult or something just gonna make plays the way some of these other guys won't be able to do. If you get into that all around cat degree, which I think is a distinctive CT degree, then for this season alone, Bond would be in the top five.

00:25:18
Speaker 3: So if I'm and I am putting two tight ends on the field. Sorry Wan Dale, My other options would be Ronde gatst and who is somehow having like one of the most monstrous rookie tight end seasons ever, and yet I feel like he's underrated just so I just wanted to give him a shout. And he's certainly not that all around guy, but Danny moves well like he is an incredible weapon for that offense. Hunter Henry just for being old, reliable, and a lot of their offense. I think what you're saying about building it and not like it's built around Hunter Henry, but he he is a foundational piece of one of the best offenses in the league. He would finish. And then I don't know if we've now gassed up Darnel Washington enough. He doesn't even qualify here, but we at least got to give him a shout out.

00:26:02
Speaker 1: That is the concern. You know. I love don I'll wash him more than some members of my family. He's really important to just my life and my well being. But I feel like he's become almost like a meme at this point that he's like close to maybe being slightly overstated for his impact. I do think he's a guy. If you gave him to Josh McDaniels would be like, we'd be talking about something really special. He's stuck with Art the Smith and he's throwing John nib out there all the time.

00:26:25
Speaker 3: All right, who would you throw out there? Then? I agree, he doesn't really fit the exercise between Gadsden and and Hunter Henry all reliable.

00:26:38
Speaker 1: I mean, Tunges hasn't played as much. Tounges looks really really impressive, like really impressive, Yeah, really impressive. Who else would I throw?

00:26:47
Speaker 3: No, I wanted I was asking, I'm not putting you out spot to choose between Gadston and Henry for my second.

00:26:56
Speaker 1: I can't go with Hunter Henry. I understand what you're saying. They do design an awful lot of around him, but he's also like the fail point from all that base of you, all those rushing figures being a disaster, not just because the offensive line isn't good enough, Like there's a lot of fail that happens when he's up at the point of attack. So maybe lean Gadston, but no, he has no idea the kind of all around him. Back Now, if you're doing two tight ends, we need the playmaking guy. So then you throw he throw Gatston on the team.

00:27:20
Speaker 3: He is that playmaking guy. He is my slot. I like my team so far. Let's take a quick break. We're gonna come back and we're gonna do the quarterbacks and Ali is gonna run through his all underrated offensive back on NFL Daily Hope. And Ali is not too mad at me for including Mari Lassiter in the Alec Pierce dunk on him Highlight Crew. Real. I know, I know you're a big Lassiter fan. You can throw him out there for the for the defensive team.

00:27:57
Speaker 1: We'll get the the only negative play he's had all season. You managed to find the film.

00:28:03
Speaker 3: It's brutal. It's fair, that's fair. Okay, let's get to quarterback. I didn't know where to go. I guess it's partly because of the position, like what is underrated at quarterback. I could have chosen a million quarterbacks here, or it was very difficult to choose just one. So I'll put you on the hot seat to start.

00:28:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I found this the toughest one just because I feel like it's covered so well as a position that everyone feels well slotted. There's still an element of me about how many years can I go on saying that I feel like Jared Goff is under discussed for an undervalued for what he does. Jordan Love I just feel is so special, yet still gets thrown into a camp of like, is he isn't he? And I just think that he is, so I toyed with that. The one I settled on was Bryce Young in the sense that I think he's an NFL calibristart, and yet there's still conversation of should they pick up the options, should they not pick up the option? What will the extension look like? And it's pretty hard to find NFL caliberstats is even with the number one overall pick, it's pretty tough to do. You go look at the recent history of that thing. It's not strung. And I think that Bryce's development has been fascinating this season in a bunch of like under the hoodways that give me some confidence that he can at least be league average for a sustained degree of his career. And that's no poll thing. And so I think he's become slightly underrated for the actual player he is.

00:29:20
Speaker 3: That's that's fascinating to me, because I know you've had your doubts about him. I have given up listening to the read optional for lent or no just for this show, for the Saturday Sico show. But everyone should check out Ali's great podcasts with John Ledyard. It is worth signing up for his sub stack for the writing and for the podcast. And you've wondered, you know, in the offseason, whether Bryce Young was really like a great fit for what this Dave Canalis offense was trying to be when it was trying to be so traditional. And it has been an up and down year for Young, Like the good games have been incredible. The bad games, especially early in the season, like some of his first quar orders were just disastrous. What has he done in terms of development under the hood you're talking about that you've seen that gets him on this list.

00:30:08
Speaker 1: I just think the level of mental and physical toughness is like the super skill he has people. When I've already talked about Bryshuing, I wrote this giant column in the off season about Bryshung where I effectively have like a mental breakdown trying to figure out a player I just couldn't understand. I just couldn't get with what was happening with him in his development. And I've got asked when I've done the podcast rounds about that piece of well, what is the super skill? And I think the super skill is the intellect and the toughness. And there's been plenty of guys who've had unbelievable careers where those are the two super skills, And so his ability to stay composed on the fire has limited. There have still been disaster plays. You go and watch the Niners game. This disaster plays everywhere. I get it, but it's less than it used to be. And he's still in an ill fitting setup, which gives me belief that if it was slightly more well suited to his natural game, which is in the gun playing point guard, which they can't do at the moment because the team around him and because the way the coach wants to play, that he could have a stronger crime, be a viable start, which is just not where certainly I was at at the end of even less season.

00:31:07
Speaker 3: I don't think the fifth year option decision is that difficult. I did say a month ago on the show that I thought it was going to be an important that was coming off his worst game of the year. It was going to be an important stretch run for him, because if he threw in a lot more games like that, and it didn't show development. Would they bring in competition in the offseason for him. He's had some of his best games of the season since then, so that I think is going to put that to bed, and the fifth year option decision to me is less difficult even if they ever wanted to bring another quarterback there. It's twenty six point five million dollars at this point. That's pretty low for like a starting quarterback. Even if you don't low like love him, you just have to kind of get used to what the salary cap numbers are. That's low, Like he could not even have his starting job going into his fifth year, and that's not that crazy or be battling you. You got to see the development. And you know, I've been compying him to Alex Smith his whole career in terms of what his career art could be, especially with that brutal rookie year bounce back to just stable second year, and I think he's sort of still on that path, even if they're different players.

00:32:16
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's a weird one because I was so down and dower on Dave Kanala's and how he kind of viewed the game and went about coaching get particularly how he approached Bryce early on. Then I was really impressed with how he completely overall this systant to be like, I just got to accept who my quarteback is and I'm going to roll with that that I've now pivoted to being if you had to pick one of the two of them, I would pick Canalas over Bryce Shung, and I would be all for bringing competition and saying, for example, if they had cam Ward in that system right now, would be I think better and a way better long term fit. But I just think that Bryce's skill set has showed me that if he went and he was the Cardinals quart back next season or whatever it was, that he would be a viable starter, even with the concerns people have. I think the touch, the downfield throw a no false script creativity. He has a super process in his head. He just sees things and reacts so quickly to everything that's happening that he could have a Alex Smith career is a great example that he could have in eight years. He gets with his wife, his version of Andy Reid is and the team is really good and competitive, but he's just never going to quite be one of the fifty twelve best quotesbacks in the league on a given season.

00:33:22
Speaker 3: And if he's twenty four years old and he's got that super processor in his head, that's going to get better, and that advantage could become a bigger advantage as he has more time in the league. So I like that shout out. I like Dak was where I started to land, and I might get there. I'm going to just talk it through with you and we'll decide, because I just think he's been incredible this year's he's having a peak that year, which means he's as good as any quarterback in the entire NFL. And so to me, that is for how he's talked about, he is underrated lower on the list. There are some options now the way I've heard people talk about Mac Jones of like, hey, you could trade for mac Jones and make them the guy in New York. It's like, Okay, he is no longer underrated. That it's a terrible idea, But for what he did, I always kind of wonder, well, what would have happened if Kyle Shannon actually had We found out, you know what, he's second in success rate this year. He's behind Sam Darnold. He is ahead of Stafford May, Daniel Jones, Like go through all the names, he's literally ahead of everyone else. Even if you're looking for more like big play type of numbers EPA per play, it's almost identical to what Purdy is there and at QBR And I do think Perty is a better player. And the way I've now like Mac is getting elevated to like he's that next Daniel Jones, I'm not so sure, but I was glad I got to watch him in this offense. I think, do do a few things. What did you see out of Mac Jones that tell me I'm not just crazy that it's not all the system that he did something in this system that were impressive.

00:35:01
Speaker 1: No, he throw he rips balls down the field all the time. That's too. He was at Alabama, he was the best deep thrower in the country. You would throw with all this loft on the day. I mean they had like a you know, Heisman room of receivers when he was at Alabama, So you just throw it up somewhere down there and those guys would find it. But they were running a really difficult, complicated offense Alabama at the time, and he would rethink so well. And I always though with him when he was with the Pages, it worked well with McDaniels. When mcdanial's on the stood the asign which was this guy is like an eighteen pass attempts, a game type player, and he's probably gonna give us two absolute moonshots down the field when we want it. But we cannot put the ball on this guy's hands to decide games and point guard us down the field as though we've got Brady or something. I think you saw that mow of Shane. There were games the Ramsey and where the balls in his hands a lot, and then you get the two you know, brain thoughts or errors. But if you put him on the Vikings next season and it's like we're just gonna throw the ball twenty times and if you can just have one mistake and two you know, absolute hero shots down the field, we feel pretty good about that.

00:35:56
Speaker 3: That's a good landing spot. If he was going to move on to another team, I think the forty nine ers will have zero interest in trading him except for for a huge price. And I don't think anyone's gonna want to give him a huge price. They've got him under contract for a low cost perty has had his share of injuries, like that's very valuable to them. All right, Well, Eric kind of made the decision for me. Mac Jones Baby, if you're watching, if you're watching on YouTube, he put mac Jones Baby as my all underrated QB. I you know, I was still debating between him and then I did want to give a shout out to one of Chris Westling's favorite quarterbacks back in the day, Marcus Mariota just getting it done, like runs that offense. Well, I actually was surprised some of his under the hood numbers weren't like as great as I thought, because to me, he's passing the eye test. But he is doing his job. He is everything you want as out of a backup quarterback. So I love him kind of realizing his his best self here with the commanders.

00:36:50
Speaker 1: And if you look at you know, I mentioned how shallow the fragant pool is. Those all these teams saying do we bring in a veteran to compete to we go and find a bridge guy, Go look at the veteran quill at the box going to be availab in the all season. It is absolute nightma fuel mugs. Mario is gonna get paid really really well to come in and compete for someone next season.

00:37:07
Speaker 3: Sneaky young somehow, still only thirty two years old. Don't let the don't let the gray hair fool you. And it is funny because I think about West all the time. With Mariota and Winston, we just for some reason spent half of our you know, three of a three year period debating between the two, and here are they are still sort of on these twin tracks and now they're just these fun backups that are that are playing well and elevating their teams when they do play. All right, let's go to the offensive line. We will wrap there, and I'm leaning on you here. I have one thought, but I'm actually gonna see the floor. Let's start at the tackle position. Give me your two tackles you have on the all underrated team.

00:37:48
Speaker 1: So I went left them right tackle, as you should do with teams. You should put them in their perferent positions. So and left tackle. To me, it's it's a straight shootout between menad Ryman and Paris Johnson. I went with Paris Johnson. I did enjoy. He had a quote about a month ago about how much better life is essentially with your Cobrasett in the building and not having to deal with Kayla Murray about how much easier it is to fight and be engaged in football. So that's been fun to watch when he's in there. I think he's still only twenty four. He's really figuring things out now that he's not quite I don't think as athletically gifted to be one of the five best in the league for a prolonged stretch of his career with a sixth through overall pick, you really hope you can go and get yourself someone with the physical capabilities of like a Milata, But he just plays with such veteran savvy. It's as basically as like, just stay in front of the guy, stick on and try and sustain through the block as best as you can. And that really is the best you can hope for with when we've had so many duds who have like the right athletic profile coming into the league, and he was built as a super athlete, he just doesn't quite move that way with the springs to keep up with the dominant guys. I mean, he got crushed by Mike cah Parsons crushed by Josh heinz Allen. So against the tier one guys, he just can't sink and bend with their true great ones, but he'll shut down the B tier rushers, which a really similar profile to Bernard Ryman, where you really want to have a top five left tackle in the league, but it's really viable to have one of those guys six through twelve. And I think that Paris Johnson's has made his way into that group.

00:39:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, you, because when I watch him, he does seem to move and have basically every everything that you want. But you're seeing him because he is young as like closer to I'm trying to think of like the level of career, like a Jake Matthews type of career, than possibly being a top five type of guy.

00:39:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you look up and you're like, that guy's been there for twelve years? Has he been in the league that long? But he says you can't find a replacement. It's dumbed to go and chase something better. But yeah, he's not Trent Williams and you just have to live with that. And it's really valuable even when you go through some of his pressure figures. I went through and I looked at some of the pressures and I think a lot of the stuff is just not on him. It's really hard to tabulate the pressures, particularly if it's one of the chip ones where it's like database on how close they are to the quarterback. A lot of that is Kyla moving into pressure. A lot of guys like blown blocking mechanics where he's in the right spot and then he gets dinged with the pressure because it's off his side, but he's you know, blocking up correctly based on the line coal. So I think if you go through like true pressure's way he struggled. It's really only being against the TI one players, and most guys struggle with those guys. I just watched Trent Williams, good is, you know, get whooped by Miles Kara over and over again. That's what happens against the great plays.

00:40:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when Jacoby Presett is holding the ball for about three and a half seconds, that's that is Jacoby. I love how man. If he could just not be like inexplicably inaccurate on about four throws a game, he's freaking awesome. I guess that's been a case for him because he just hangs in there. But man, he is holding the ball forever and he's making it harder on his offensive line, and you know they've been better some weeks than another. Bernard Ryman is a good shout out too. I I thought, you know, for this extra like I thought when Zach Tom signed that big contract, then everyone was going to start just talking about him as one of the best, you know, right tackles, the best players in the league. And from what I've watched, I think he's having a great season. But still I don't think he's really getting that left. So I throw Zach Tom out there still as underrated somehow, despite other money.

00:41:12
Speaker 1: I would always throw Zach Tom in there. If you saw putting together the list of best right tackles, you get to his name like third in line, Like he's just right there. He is, even if you just go by skill set, the slick feet, the base, everything is as good. The fluidity, he's as good as anyone going. He's just not quite in that A plus tier of like Eline Johnson, where it's like, oh, here's a Hall of Fame in their prime doing it at the highest level. He's another guy who I remember last season when he had Will Anderson, Daniel Hunter, and he was just in an absolute blend. He's like, I Am not as physically capable as these guys, but you put him against all the other a minus B plus cause he just locks down the really really good plays in the league. And he is an absolute killer in the run game, to which the rest of the group is just, you know, pretty much a travesty. And that only ever flows when it goes through through Zach Tom.

00:41:57
Speaker 3: It is funny because you're you're saying how it's not easy to tackles and yet you know, switching back to Ryman, who you mentioned the left tackle for the Colts, they did find like the Anthony Costanzo like replacement exactly after and so it's not hard for Chris Balladin. It's had a good job with that. And I went to look, I remembered he signed that contract last offseason, four years, one hundred million dollars, sixty million dollars guaranteed. They kind of got ahead of it with Ryman, and that's going to age very well I think for the Colts. All right, let's go to the interior line. Who are your guards?

00:42:29
Speaker 1: My gods, we have to start with Damian Lewis from the Panthers, who might now be my favorite player in the NFL. Wow. An absolutely bowling ball of a human being. He is the tiniest, squattest interior lineman we have and he just is out there to take souls. And what can you not love about an interial linman who it's just out there. Krishianvone who rarely ever loses one on one in pass Pro. I've watched him go up against Milton Williams and Dane Walker, Zach Sila, Josh Einzell, and we mentioned the Trayvon Walka went up against both those guys one on one. He just nails people immediately at the point of contact and the rep is just over not as quick moving side to side in passbo, but in the wrong game he is just an absolute killer. He's so low to the ground he just gets open under people, immediately gets into position, can twist and control anyone that you like, crazy crazy grip strength despite having these really tiny arms. He just locks into people and can maneuver even the best in the game and can reset the line on the zone. The Packers film is like all time, like just going watch one guy on his own mall a front one on one. They keep sending different bodies out and like someone else get the Lewis assign and he's like, I'm good, I'm gonna go reck that guy's afternoon. So, Damian Lewis, I have just fallen in love with.

00:43:41
Speaker 3: I love that you set me a clip that I guess is common on tables. He's just like four yards down the field blocking his guy. You're seeing that a lot. That's turned into a great free agent pickup. I think that was one of Dan Morgan's first signings that was kind of there what they planted their flag doing, and it it got some side eyes, I think for people in the media and around the league, and it sounds like it's worked out incredibly well.

00:44:07
Speaker 1: He used to be very oddly flailing. I don't know if he was concerned about having short throws who just kind of flail out there. Now he's just like, I'm just gonna go and set the terms myself as if I get in someone's face. The snap is of which is why, as you said, you get there the snaps way, He's three hours ahead of the rest of the line of soul throwing up on themselves and panicking and he's just out there hanging and chilling.

00:44:27
Speaker 3: Yeah. They I was trying to think who else. Who is the other guy that they signed that they gave the huge money to is Robert Hunt who's been on injured reserve this year. But it did, it did give them a bit of an identity really the last two years, certainly last year running the ball. And that's a good shout out. Give me your other first team guard.

00:44:44
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Mike On when who who just come in and being as rediscovered himself, I would say as a stable force. He does not quite move people in the roong game the way he did when he was peaked Mike on Winu And it used to be he was this imposing Rombloca and what considers is you have the feet to really move. In past pro, you have to hide him and sneak him around. Now it's kind of flipped where he looks a little bit stiff getting off the ball, and it's not always sweet and exactly what you won. But in pass pro he's gone up against some of the best in the league toe to toe and taken on Dex Lawrence and Vite Devey or Malik Collins and Jeffrey Simmons and just looked everyone down.

00:45:22
Speaker 3: So Michael Wanu with the Patriots. Of course, it's a dangerous spot here. First of all, you know there's a lot of Patriots talk here on this underrated team, so we could be accused by second, I should have I should have mentioned for for the listeners, Damian Lewis is a Panther, was on the Seahawks. I know he's not a household name. So so next time you're watching the Panthers, uh, check out Damian Lewis road grading for for Rico Dawdle there in the backfield. Owenu is interesting because so many people form their opinions on offensive linemen based on PFF, and I feel like he has been a PFF darling, but he's also have been very up and down in his career, kind of an unpredictable career arc where it's like year to year, position to position. You know, he has moved around quite a bit, but you kind of feel like he's stabilized and like he's gonna be on this team because it's funny. In the preseason, there was some talk that he might be on the way out, kind of like Kyle duggar, but instead here he is on Ali Connelly's all underrated team whatever.

00:46:26
Speaker 1: And I will say the right Gods spot is a little tough because Sam coused me has miss time with health and I feel like he's still underrated. An and Dominic Pooney, who was like the I thought he was gonna be really really specialists, had a pretty difficult second year in the league. It's hot to say he's he's underrated this point. So he kind of looking through and going, well, everyone knows Quinn Minus is the best right guard in league. He just is. So you get to this almost like second team All Pro, and you're looking around like the John Travolta meme, like okay, where are my right gods that we can try and throw into this team? And I just feel like when I think having Morgan Moses having a stable presence to the right side is what has allowed him to be so strong and passed port just having some degree certainty like, Okay, we're not gonna win every single rep with Mogan Moses, but at least I know that guy knows where he's gonna be. He's gonna know who to pick up. And it's not like me looking around and panicking because the thing on Wendy strugs with the most is when there's some kind of exchange and he's got a look one way and then reset and go the other way, if at least have some degree certainty the event understands the assignment. I think you can just play quicker and that's why he's improved this season.

00:47:23
Speaker 3: There are so few values in free agency, especially on the offensive line, but you can find this on the defensive line too. You can, like the one place you can find value is like the thirty four thirty five year old just like get us through a season Morgan Moses type. Like those guys keep being out there. They don't get paid that much and they play as well or better than guys paid a lot more that are a lot younger, and they get you by for a season. Let's wrap up with your center choice.

00:47:55
Speaker 1: This is a tough one. This is like a head and hot situation for me, because I think the Luke waltimbag with the Broncos is maybe the most underrated to play it. But I'm sure to some people like who is that person? Who is Luke Wattenberg? Is that a realized that a lull for them. Is that a guy who plays in the NFL. So yeah, he's one of the best centers playing in the NFL. But I have to say it's Aaron brew with the Dolphins, who I think should probably even be Creed. It's always tough, but he's got a real shout for being the first team All procentto this season.

00:48:23
Speaker 3: Wow, that is a great shout out, you know, by the way, on Wattenberg, who agrees with you. A contract that we did not hit on this show was a four year, forty eight million dollar, only thirteen million dollar guaranteed contract by the Broncos a couple of weeks ago, or maybe even just a week ago. Sean Payton did it again, like he has a way of finding these interior guys and getting them signed for way too little money, like Jarry Evans, like those guys back with the Saints were like some of those underpaid players in the league for a while because they signed these early contracts. So Wattenburg could go down like that. Tell me more about Brewer though, And I know you like Patrick Paul's development too for Miami, But Brewers do that that's unique among centers.

00:49:02
Speaker 1: Just the explosiveness he might be the twitchiest guy out of his stants in the league. The snap and ghost stuff is like not an easy skill for a lot of these players to figure out. You go and watch someone like Zach Frazen. He comes to anyone's like, this is the greatest center prospect in years. You go and watch the first year film. He struggles to snap and then move. It's like pretty difficult when you're trying to figure out all these giant bodies in front of you and remember what the rum mechanics are. And we've got a lot of plays. It's not college football. You watch Brewer go, he just moves at a different speed and tempo to everyone else. He rarely loses one on one in pass Pro, so you get all kind of like the Lindabaum run game upside with the speed and the strength and the intellect without any of the like, let's just take giant El's every third drive in pass Pro.

00:49:42
Speaker 3: And yeah, I was gonna say, speaking of taking giant El's, poor Chris Beard. Chris Greer like this was a giant w for him and he's not still around to enjoy it. So shout out to Chris Greear for this.

00:49:53
Speaker 1: The other thing I love about Brewer is he knows how much better he is than other people in the league, and he plays with like a real disday. When he's played the Bills this season, there are so many instances of him looking around like sick at how bad the competition is. After the play, he's like, how dare you step to a field with me? I'm Aaron Brewer and I'm great.

00:50:11
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Uh, and not comforting if you're like Eric Roberts is producing here a Bills fan. Let's wrap up with Eric's idea. He just wanted one matchup here, Ali that you're looking to. We're heading into what I think is the most interesting slate of the season. We've got, you know, three really important intriguing games in the early window on Sunday. All the primetime games are gonna be really huge in terms of playoff leverage. What is just like a matchup, whether it's a player, you know, a passing offense, whatever it is that you're you're most looking forward to this weekend.

00:50:47
Speaker 1: Uh, this might be a little off the wall, so I apologize, but seeing how the Cardinals defensively want to get after the Rams because that staff more than most in the league, puts the fun film the ev one goes and steals. Now, they don't have the talent to compete necessarily at the level everyone else does, but seeing what they cook up against Sheil McVeigh, they are the ultimate like bespoke game plan staff, we didn't have the holess, we didn't have the talent. Let's try and figure out something crazy we can do to steal a couple of possessions. Does not always work, as we see by the record and the late game collapses. But I have a feeling they'll put some stuff down against the Rams that works to steal a drival to the other people will then go and steal moving into the playoffs.

00:51:28
Speaker 3: That's really interesting. And they play them twice down the stretch here, and I brought it up on the show. I wasn't sure how much to put into it, but they they did hold the Rams to a combined twenty three points last year, and the talent's probably better overall. And even the defense, like the numbers will tell you, this is like a borderline Top ten defense. It still has been a good Cardinals defense. They're one of the best. You know, damning with fan praise. Three nine teams I've ever seen in my life. They will make the Rams offense work. So that's a fascinating shout out, Like what have you as we wrap up, what have you liked about this Cardinals defense this year?

00:52:03
Speaker 1: Not an awful lot. Frankly, I'm not with you on them being one of the best three and nine teams. I think now to their credit, they've had so many injuries in the secondary. They're rolling guys in and out all the time trying to.

00:52:13
Speaker 3: Figures about I'm just saying they're a five or six win team. They could easily be six and six, and it.

00:52:18
Speaker 1: Would be like they should be six and six they had not blown games, they would be six and six. My number one thing with the Cardinals where I'm like, oh, I do not like this. This is not good for my soul is the decline of Buddha, who is the perennial all underrated player off just like the Hall of Fame guy, like you don't realize we had Troy Polamal who return to the league and he's just playing out in Arizona. On the teams. It's really unfair to see us a dip in Buddha's form, And I'm wondering can we get him maybe to another team where there's like a second resurgence in a second life. Would they allow him to try and do that or is it just once the decline comes for that position, that's just a problem and a lot of stuff. They do their most creative stuff, and they are probably the one defense in the NFL is this is the coverage shell. Here's where everyone is. And then Buddha, you just go and do what you want to do. You just figure it out on your own. That works really well when he's at peak athleticism, peak mentality, can read the game quicker than anyone else. When that takes even a three percent ding, you get all kinds of issues and coverage.

00:53:20
Speaker 3: We put you on the spot, and you delivered like Buddha Baker does so often. They gave him an extension in December last year. It's always a weird time for an extension, and so he's probably not going anywhere that would be tough to trade. But he is one of those players I agree with you that i'd like to see in a different uniform at at some point in the spotlight making playoff runs. They're not doing that anytime soon. All Right, that's it for the all underrated team on offense. I enjoyed doing it. I think we should do the defense next week and then we don't even have to come up with another idea. Another Saturday with for the Sikos. Thank you Ali, Thanks great, will be back. The Saturday obviously are the last time before you hear us before the recap show. Jordan rod Rieg, who's been away on assignment, should have mentioned at some point this week for the athletics, we'll be back in the studio with myself in Patrick Clayband and Nick Chook in Cleveland or the recap show, we'll see them