Episode 326

<v Speaker 1>Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
<v Speaker 1>not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
<v Speaker 2>Same to realize I need to step up and be
<v Speaker 2>a better mom.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I hate to be the bearer by news,
<v Speaker 3>but you're not going to get the opportunity for a
<v Speaker 3>long long time.
<v Speaker 4>Not only is the steak and to have custy of
<v Speaker 4>your children.
<v Speaker 5>You're going to.
<v Speaker 3>Jail today, if I have my way, You're going as
<v Speaker 3>an accomplished to murder.
<v Speaker 6>Some knights start with laughter and with sirens. No one
<v Speaker 6>sees it coming until it's too late. Some knights are
<v Speaker 6>simply born under a bad sign. You likely won't even
<v Speaker 6>feel it at first. The music's loud, the drinks are flowing,
<v Speaker 6>and it all feels harmless enough. But violence rarely announces itself.
<v Speaker 6>It rarely sends an R s v P with a
<v Speaker 6>self addressed, stamped envelope. Often it builds quietly, bubbling beneath
<v Speaker 6>the surface until it does what all bubbles do, and
<v Speaker 6>it bursts without warning. And when it does, the people
<v Speaker 6>who pay the price are rarely the ones looking for trouble.
<v Speaker 6>They're the ones standing too close when the world suddenly
<v Speaker 6>tilts towards chaos.
<v Speaker 7>Okay, how many times have been stabbed?
<v Speaker 5>I watched it happen.
<v Speaker 8>The guy had been He stabbed him in the shoulder.
<v Speaker 7>Say that he has.
<v Speaker 6>On April twenty third, twenty twenty three, at about three am,
<v Speaker 6>deputies from the Hawking County Sheriff's Office were dispatched to
<v Speaker 6>a remote cabin talked deep in the woods of Sugar Growth,
<v Speaker 6>a lovely village in the wonderful state of Ohio, which
<v Speaker 6>we love so much on this program, namely because of
<v Speaker 6>all the wonderful and colorful people that lived there, had
<v Speaker 6>all of the wonderful content they bring us. When deputies
<v Speaker 6>finally arrived to their destination, they found a group of
<v Speaker 6>young adults gathered near the front porch of the cabin.
<v Speaker 6>They were visibly shaken and clustered around a young man
<v Speaker 6>sprawled on the ground. The young man was covered in blood.
<v Speaker 6>He had been stabbed several times, and time was running out.
<v Speaker 5>Charlie, yes he is.
<v Speaker 9>Billion, I was back.
<v Speaker 6>Deputies learned that the young man's name was Charlie. While
<v Speaker 6>waiting for paramedics to arrive, his friends hovered close, supplying
<v Speaker 6>makeshift bandages and holding pressure on his stab wounds. They
<v Speaker 6>urged Charlie to hang on and keep fighting.
<v Speaker 5>You got it, You're so tough.
<v Speaker 4>Come on, Charlie, Yeah, you got it.
<v Speaker 2>On, Charlie, so good, Come on, you're so strong about.
<v Speaker 10>How strong you're gonna be.
<v Speaker 4>You're the strongest person I know.
<v Speaker 11>Anybody can make this like this, it's huge.
<v Speaker 3>There we goes squats here.
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, come on, Charlie.
<v Speaker 5>I'm so proud.
<v Speaker 13>I'm so proud.
<v Speaker 14>You're knowing so good.
<v Speaker 15>Keep pushing for us, all right, model to the neck,
<v Speaker 15>you guys, I'm not quite sure he has seals.
<v Speaker 6>After several agonizing minutes, paramedics arrived on scene and Charlie
<v Speaker 6>was gurneyed into an ambulance.
<v Speaker 4>How don't you shout?
<v Speaker 9>Nine sty went one two thirty four five one on
<v Speaker 9>his back, next six.
<v Speaker 16>Six thats two to the right, john slash year, one
<v Speaker 16>of the neck, one of the.
<v Speaker 7>Top part of his like his trap, one of the
<v Speaker 7>boys said, and one on the back.
<v Speaker 6>Charlie was in critical condition, and he was soon airlifted
<v Speaker 6>to the nearest trauma center, where doctors and surgeons would
<v Speaker 6>attempt to save his life. Back at the cabin, deputies
<v Speaker 6>began the grim task of piecing together what had gone
<v Speaker 6>so violently wrong?
<v Speaker 7>A wait us the stabbing.
<v Speaker 4>I saw everything you saying.
<v Speaker 7>So who else it? You? Two?
<v Speaker 17>Just you two?
<v Speaker 16>Okay, all right, I got some detectives coming.
<v Speaker 6>Roughly fifteen to twenty potential witnesses remained at the scene,
<v Speaker 6>all of them in their early twenties. Deputies corralled the
<v Speaker 6>group around a nearby fire pit and waited for detectives
<v Speaker 6>to arrive. When the inside of the cabin was searched,
<v Speaker 6>deputies found all the markings of a fun college like party.
<v Speaker 6>Decorations hung from the ceiling, beer bottles littered every surface,
<v Speaker 6>The kitchen sink overflowed with dishes, and a table in
<v Speaker 6>the living room showed signs of a recently played drinking game.
<v Speaker 6>Back outside, the first detectives pulled up and questioning began.
<v Speaker 18>So, first of all, what time did you get here?
<v Speaker 19>I got here yesterday, okay, so.
<v Speaker 18>It's now almost six o'clock on Sunday mornings.
<v Speaker 10>I got here on Friday Friday. I helped decorate and
<v Speaker 10>set up.
<v Speaker 18>Okay, So when you say, it's a great setip, but
<v Speaker 18>what was this?
<v Speaker 19>Uh his twenty first, twenty thirty birthday?
<v Speaker 18>Okay, so this is Dalton's twenty third birthday.
<v Speaker 6>The two story wood cabin had been rented for the
<v Speaker 6>weekend by twenty three year old Dalton Flag as part
<v Speaker 6>of his birthday celebration.
<v Speaker 10>All right, so this is your birthday party? Yes, okay,
<v Speaker 10>so walk me. How long have you been here this year?
<v Speaker 18>The whole weekend? Yeah, we got here Friday like four pm,
<v Speaker 18>I think it was.
<v Speaker 6>Dalton arrived at the cabin that Friday evening with his
<v Speaker 6>girlfriend and roommate. The three of them started setting up,
<v Speaker 6>decorating the space and anticipation of what they hoped would
<v Speaker 6>be a carefree weekend of partying with friends. Naturally, Dalton
<v Speaker 6>had sent out the invites, including one to twenty two
<v Speaker 6>year old Charles Starner, known to most as Charlie or Chuck.
<v Speaker 6>Charlie was a manager at a small pizzeria where he
<v Speaker 6>employed several of the friends, He was engaged and the
<v Speaker 6>father of a nine month old son. That night, Charlie
<v Speaker 6>showed up to a party with his fiance and two
<v Speaker 6>close friends.
<v Speaker 3>So you get here tonight around seven pm?
<v Speaker 10>Okay, you wrote down with Charlie, Caleb and Rachel. Okay,
<v Speaker 10>what happens when you guys get here? Everything is fine
<v Speaker 10>and dandy.
<v Speaker 18>Everything was fine.
<v Speaker 20>That kid wasn't even here when I first got at
<v Speaker 20>your ead inchuke for the kids. That step Charlie wasn't
<v Speaker 20>here for hours when I was here, and everything was.
<v Speaker 10>Fine, okay.
<v Speaker 6>The atmosphere at the cabin was everything you'd expect from
<v Speaker 6>a typical college aged party. People were drinking heavily, some
<v Speaker 6>smoking weed, and a few others were openly using cocaine.
<v Speaker 6>The hot tub was in use, drinking games were underway,
<v Speaker 6>and everyone seemed to be having a great time until
<v Speaker 6>suddenly they weren't.
<v Speaker 18>It was pretty chill. Then, how did we get to this? Honestly,
<v Speaker 18>I don't know where were you at.
<v Speaker 21>I was inside and I just heard people screaming, so
<v Speaker 21>I ran out to look because obviously I'm nowsing, but
<v Speaker 21>me and Ryan like heard them yelling, so we ran
<v Speaker 21>out to check it out. And he was just fighting, which, uh,
<v Speaker 21>it was just a bunch of the guys.
<v Speaker 18>So there's more than two people fighting.
<v Speaker 21>It wasn't really fighting. Everyone was just yelling at each other.
<v Speaker 17>And then.
<v Speaker 21>We went inside because we didn't really think anything of it.
<v Speaker 21>Then we heard a bunch of screaming and I came
<v Speaker 21>out and that's when I saw, like the guy.
<v Speaker 18>I don't even know who he was, So the guy
<v Speaker 18>you're talking about, the person who was hurt.
<v Speaker 21>Or the person that was hurt. I see him where
<v Speaker 21>I think his neck, I don't know. I just seemed
<v Speaker 21>blood like dripping down him and that freaked me out
<v Speaker 21>and I took off running into the woods because I
<v Speaker 21>was scared.
<v Speaker 6>One of the first challenges detective's face was that not
<v Speaker 6>everyone at the party had witnessed the stabbing. To make
<v Speaker 6>matters worse, many of the attendees were strangers to one another,
<v Speaker 6>having met for the first time that night. When questioned,
<v Speaker 6>several had trouble recalling names, making the investigation difficult to untangle.
<v Speaker 18>Do you know who did this or were you told?
<v Speaker 7>No?
<v Speaker 19>I know his name, okay, Isaac Pince, Isaac Paince, I
<v Speaker 19>don't know how to spell it.
<v Speaker 18>He's the one. Everyone said it. He was the one
<v Speaker 18>that drove the car, pulled the car out of here.
<v Speaker 18>I don't know what kind of car. Will see him leave.
<v Speaker 18>I'll see him peel out with the car. Who's anybody
<v Speaker 18>with him?
<v Speaker 7>I think it's fiance.
<v Speaker 6>Despite the challenges, detectives managed to determine who had been stabbed,
<v Speaker 6>and perhaps more importantly, who had done the stabbing. Over
<v Speaker 6>and over, the partygoers pointed to one person, a young
<v Speaker 6>man named Isaac Pence.
<v Speaker 10>So you guys are hanging out. When does Isaac arrive?
<v Speaker 20>I couldn't tell you, like an exact time.
<v Speaker 22>And if I didn't guess, i'd.
<v Speaker 10>Say the weaven who's he arrived with?
<v Speaker 18>And is that his fiance?
<v Speaker 10>I think I think their may engaged.
<v Speaker 7>Maybe I'm non positive on that work, Okay, I.
<v Speaker 18>Know the data for sure.
<v Speaker 6>Twenty year old Isaac Pence arrived at the cabin with
<v Speaker 6>his fiance, Sabra Flag, who was the sister of the
<v Speaker 6>birthday host, Dalton Flag. Sabra was the only reason Isaac
<v Speaker 6>had been invited in the first place, and it didn't
<v Speaker 6>take long for detectives to learn that Isaac and Dalton
<v Speaker 6>had a rocky history.
<v Speaker 18>How he and Isaac been together like four years? So
<v Speaker 18>do you know Isaac?
<v Speaker 19>Yeah?
<v Speaker 7>Who is he?
<v Speaker 18>What do you mean? Play good person? I'm a good person.
<v Speaker 19>When he's not drinking.
<v Speaker 18>Yes, when he's drinking Isaac was drinking.
<v Speaker 19>Yes, and time he drinks.
<v Speaker 18>He's very violent, has Isaac and never had bad blood before?
<v Speaker 5>Yes?
<v Speaker 19>Because he just he doesn't treat Saber well at all. Yeah,
<v Speaker 19>but they never got along.
<v Speaker 23>And I told like, I like Saber wanted to come,
<v Speaker 23>and Dalon's like, Isaac would only allow her to come
<v Speaker 23>if he came with her, And Dalton was like, not
<v Speaker 23>okay with it, but he said, as long as he's
<v Speaker 23>not drinking.
<v Speaker 19>But as soon as he came to the house he
<v Speaker 19>was drinking.
<v Speaker 18>In trouble before for drinking for one.
<v Speaker 19>I know he's on probation for something he's not supposed
<v Speaker 19>to be drinking, and he is.
<v Speaker 6>By nearly all accounts, Isaac Pence had a reputation for
<v Speaker 6>being a violet drunk. He had only just recently been
<v Speaker 6>released from jail for assaulting Sabra and Dalton's mother. Dalton
<v Speaker 6>knew Isaac was trouble. He didn't want him at the party,
<v Speaker 6>especially not in a secluded cabin in the woods, but
<v Speaker 6>to keep peace with his sister stir, Dalton gave in
<v Speaker 6>and allowed Isaac to attend. That would turn out to
<v Speaker 6>be a grave mistake.
<v Speaker 10>Who was Isaac West? Who did he sleep with?
<v Speaker 16>My sister?
<v Speaker 24>Sabrify She stays with Isaac and his parents, So she
<v Speaker 24>lives with Isaac and his parents and Isaac's had issues
<v Speaker 24>in the past. He's put his hands on my sister,
<v Speaker 24>and he's just literally went to jail three months ago
<v Speaker 24>for putting his hands on my mom.
<v Speaker 10>How old was Isaac?
<v Speaker 12>Twenty twenty one?
<v Speaker 6>By this point, detectives had started to piece together the
<v Speaker 6>key relationships and some of the night's events, but this
<v Speaker 6>information hadn't come quickly. Hours had passed and partygoers were
<v Speaker 6>now sobering up. Many were growing restless and increasingly impatient
<v Speaker 6>with the process.
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to fucking go home. I've been sitting here
<v Speaker 5>for fucking hours. I'm freezing. We're not I get it.
<v Speaker 5>I am fucking old as fun.
<v Speaker 7>You understand it, bro?
<v Speaker 5>Why are you? Why are you choking?
<v Speaker 12>Why are you choking?
<v Speaker 5>Why do you get your record recordish? Hey, records that
<v Speaker 5>have a fuck?
<v Speaker 4>You're choking?
<v Speaker 7>Now?
<v Speaker 6>That guy was taking a jail for disrupting the scene
<v Speaker 6>of an emergency. And the interviews continued. As detectives continue
<v Speaker 6>to ask questions, they eventually learned how the party was
<v Speaker 6>turned into a scene of chaos and violence.
<v Speaker 10>All right, so what started this whole argument?
<v Speaker 24>So everyone, like most people were leaving, Isaac was beyond
<v Speaker 24>drugging and he was calling everyone like names. I don't
<v Speaker 24>even like, I don't even know why he was acting
<v Speaker 24>where he was because everybody was leaving and everything, like.
<v Speaker 18>Everything we roll done.
<v Speaker 24>He started acting, pushing other people, me and my o
<v Speaker 24>over there and say heyboy, like just see he's like
<v Speaker 24>you're fine, You're good, like just you're good.
<v Speaker 25>Just leave.
<v Speaker 20>Like from the leave he got super mad and they
<v Speaker 20>started to raise their voices at each other.
<v Speaker 18>For some reason, he pushed a rising really hard, like into.
<v Speaker 20>A table, okay, And then that was when things like
<v Speaker 20>really escalated because now Dalton was super mad because his
<v Speaker 20>girlfriend got pushed and they.
<v Speaker 10>Were just like screaming at each other.
<v Speaker 19>He didn't want to leave.
<v Speaker 12>He came charging, pushed me.
<v Speaker 13>On the ground and charged at Dalton, and then that's
<v Speaker 13>when Dalton came back at him, and everyone pulled him off,
<v Speaker 13>and then he started coming at everyone else in the house,
<v Speaker 13>and then that's when.
<v Speaker 19>It went outside.
<v Speaker 6>Several witnesses explained that the violence started when Dalton asked
<v Speaker 6>Isaac to leave. In response, Isaac shoved Dalton's girlfriend, arising,
<v Speaker 6>sending her crashing to the ground. The moment people saw
<v Speaker 6>Isaac put his hands on a woman, the atmosphere snapped,
<v Speaker 6>voices exploded in anger, and the confrontation spilled outside onto
<v Speaker 6>the driveway of the cabin.
<v Speaker 10>What happens when they get outside?
<v Speaker 13>There was a group of people telling him to leave.
<v Speaker 13>We told him we were about to call nine one
<v Speaker 13>one if he didn't leave. Everyone say no, no, his or
<v Speaker 13>his baby arms say.
<v Speaker 7>No, no't call nine one one.
<v Speaker 11>He's on probation.
<v Speaker 12>He's gonna get in trouble.
<v Speaker 6>A crowd quickly formed. A large group surrounded Isaac, telling
<v Speaker 6>him to leave. At the same time, a smaller group
<v Speaker 6>held Dalton back, trying to stop him from launching into
<v Speaker 6>a fistfight with Isaac like I was trying to.
<v Speaker 18>Come out and Cray and all them me like it's
<v Speaker 18>not worth it. Just he's leaving. Cray Yeah, crazy right?
<v Speaker 10>There is that real name?
<v Speaker 7>Yeah?
<v Speaker 18>I think it's like c One.
<v Speaker 6>Sorry to interrupt the flow of the story here, but
<v Speaker 6>I have a question, ask what the hell's going on
<v Speaker 6>with the names at this party? Cray, Sabra, Horizon, Teca,
<v Speaker 6>and Cinnamon, just to name a few.
<v Speaker 1>What the hell?
<v Speaker 6>What kind of dope smoking bead wearing crystal charging music festival,
<v Speaker 6>attending double wide living minimum wage earning ANTIFA supporting wannabe
<v Speaker 6>hippie parents named these dumbass children, we gotta set up
<v Speaker 6>your kin for success with a name like Cinnamon. By
<v Speaker 6>the way, Sure that'll keep her off the pole. Next
<v Speaker 6>up on stage, Cinneamon. Anyway, Dalton was being held back
<v Speaker 6>by his friends who were telling him not to fight Isaac,
<v Speaker 6>while several others were shouting at Isaac, telling him to
<v Speaker 6>get into his car and pedal is a little lass
<v Speaker 6>out of there?
<v Speaker 10>What did you see or observe from that time forward?
<v Speaker 13>A whole bunch of pushing okay, shouting, yelling, pushing, yelling,
<v Speaker 13>shoving okay, And then what happened?
<v Speaker 18>He was essentially carried to his car by life three.
<v Speaker 22>Or four people trying to get him to like there
<v Speaker 22>wasn't no him wanting to leave like he was.
<v Speaker 10>Definitely, it was more like a forceful.
<v Speaker 22>Like he had the yeah, like there was multiple guys
<v Speaker 22>grabbing him and trying to shove him in his own car,
<v Speaker 22>trying to get him to just be gone.
<v Speaker 10>Okay, and where.
<v Speaker 20>Is yes in the car.
<v Speaker 10>With him into the passenger seat okay.
<v Speaker 6>Several guys dragged Isaac to the driver's side of his
<v Speaker 6>car at about the same time, Isaac's fiance Sabra, hopped
<v Speaker 6>in the passenger seat of the same car.
<v Speaker 26>So at this point they're in the car and there's
<v Speaker 26>a couple of people like banging on the windows. He
<v Speaker 26>gets mad and opens and he opened the door, and
<v Speaker 26>Charlie was one of the people that were.
<v Speaker 18>Trying to get him in the car and get him
<v Speaker 18>to leave, and he.
<v Speaker 20>Just happened to be the guy in front of the
<v Speaker 20>driver's door, just grabbing him for whatever reason and started
<v Speaker 20>stabbing him.
<v Speaker 18>Like it was like six times too. I saw Charlie
<v Speaker 18>fall to the ground.
<v Speaker 10>Does he immediately get back in the car and leave?
<v Speaker 18>What?
<v Speaker 10>What's the next course of action?
<v Speaker 20>Just gets in his car, slams the door and spends tires,
<v Speaker 20>drags up the drop one d was.
<v Speaker 18>Just so crazy.
<v Speaker 13>I walk inside and then I think, like ten minutes after,
<v Speaker 13>they come out and he.
<v Speaker 12>Said he just stabbed him. He just stabbed him. What
<v Speaker 12>is going on? What are you looking for? She's like,
<v Speaker 12>Charlie just got stabbed.
<v Speaker 6>When Isaac was forced into his car, he reached into
<v Speaker 6>the center console, pulled out a small work knife, grabbed
<v Speaker 6>the nearest person and just started stabbing. I mean, that's
<v Speaker 6>what I always do when I'm frustrated. His unlucky victim
<v Speaker 6>was Charlie Starner. With no warning, Charlie was struck multiple times,
<v Speaker 6>including potentially fatal stabs to his back and neck. He
<v Speaker 6>collapsed to the ground, bleeding heavily, while Isaac slammed his
<v Speaker 6>car door shut and sped off with Sabra, you know,
<v Speaker 6>like the hummus.
<v Speaker 8>I was standing up for a porch, and I watched
<v Speaker 8>him get stabbed right there next to my truck, and uh,
<v Speaker 8>Jimmy and the guy who's covered in blood. He carried
<v Speaker 8>him over here to the other side of my truck.
<v Speaker 12>Where the big pull of blood is.
<v Speaker 8>And I opened up the back of my truck and
<v Speaker 8>started rummaging through and grabbing my mid kids.
<v Speaker 6>Among the guests at the party was a young woman
<v Speaker 6>named Amanda Chapman who had a background in ems. When
<v Speaker 6>Charlie went down, Amanda rushed to her truck, grabbed a
<v Speaker 6>medical kit, and began doing everything she could to help.
<v Speaker 10>Tonight was a story, and that was terrifying.
<v Speaker 26>I understand completely well, the two that were out here,
<v Speaker 26>can you identify both of them?
<v Speaker 12>So Charlie is the one that I was of a
<v Speaker 12>sternal reb on.
<v Speaker 10>I don't know the guy that was in the car of.
<v Speaker 12>That stabbed him. I guess his girls lost with him.
<v Speaker 8>Okay, everybody that's here right now, I really don't think
<v Speaker 8>anything was malicious, but the dude who fled.
<v Speaker 10>Like was out to kill.
<v Speaker 6>Multiple people at the party called nine one one. As
<v Speaker 6>they waited, they hovered helplessly around Charlie, watching Amanda and
<v Speaker 6>a few others render what little aid they could. As
<v Speaker 6>Charlie was bleeding out on the ground. Everyone hoped that
<v Speaker 6>help would get there in time.
<v Speaker 18>Did Charlie say anything?
<v Speaker 7>I have.
<v Speaker 18>I heard no words come out of that man's mouth.
<v Speaker 18>And that's what I think.
<v Speaker 7>That's what the most.
<v Speaker 18>Charlie conscious or unconscious for while he was conscious, I
<v Speaker 18>couldn't be outside for the rest of it.
<v Speaker 7>I couldn't see to call his mom, let him, let.
<v Speaker 18>Him know what's going on. When Charlie was conscious, he
<v Speaker 18>didn't say nothing.
<v Speaker 7>He didn't say nothing.
<v Speaker 18>He didn't say what happened.
<v Speaker 7>No, he couldn't, He couldn't, he couldn't. He was please No.
<v Speaker 6>While first responders were en route and throughout the rest
<v Speaker 6>of the morning, Dalton's girlfriend exchanged text messages with Sabra,
<v Speaker 6>who was presumably still sitting in the passenger seat next
<v Speaker 6>to Isaac.
<v Speaker 26>Did you have any contact with the suspect or Saber
<v Speaker 26>after they left here?
<v Speaker 12>She texted me, and I texted her back.
<v Speaker 10>Okay, what did the text me to say?
<v Speaker 13>She started two fifty six. I'm going to need my
<v Speaker 13>shoes and my purse back.
<v Speaker 12>Hello. I need you to answer right now.
<v Speaker 10>Hello.
<v Speaker 12>I said, we have your shit. You'll get it tomorrow.
<v Speaker 12>She said, I have to have it. What the hell
<v Speaker 12>was that?
<v Speaker 7>Hah?
<v Speaker 13>His friends jumped him. I said, you're not getting it
<v Speaker 13>till tomorrow. I said, you show up with you and Isaac.
<v Speaker 13>It's all going to be bad.
<v Speaker 6>What stood out most about this text exchange is what
<v Speaker 6>wasn't said. At no point did Saber ask how Charlie
<v Speaker 6>was doing. Her only concern was retrieving her purse and
<v Speaker 6>a few other meaningless belongings she'd left behind at the cabin.
<v Speaker 13>She said, I'm going to need my glasses, shoes, and
<v Speaker 13>purse or 'all going to prison. She said, the key
<v Speaker 13>to my goddamn work and if I don't get it back,
<v Speaker 13>I'll call the fucking cops. And then she texts me
<v Speaker 13>out four point thirty two. I need my shit, what's
<v Speaker 13>going on.
<v Speaker 6>Once paramedics arrived, Charlie was quickly rushed to a trauma
<v Speaker 6>center and prepared for emergency surgery. Back at the cabin,
<v Speaker 6>detectives got to work interviewing witnesses, searching the scene, and
<v Speaker 6>trying to understand exactly what had gone down. While doing this,
<v Speaker 6>they got some interesting news.
<v Speaker 4>Right yeah, allegedly suspects on his way back here.
<v Speaker 7>It's awesome.
<v Speaker 4>So they went to the hotel room where sabers mam
<v Speaker 4>is sang.
<v Speaker 10>She told him to get their shit and get out.
<v Speaker 5>And I don't know if she doesn't know if he's
<v Speaker 5>coming back.
<v Speaker 10>To Tennis when he started or what.
<v Speaker 6>The detectives learned that Isaac Pence was still furious and
<v Speaker 6>it was headed back to the cabin. Apparently stabbing someone
<v Speaker 6>several times hadn't been enough for him. He wanted more blood.
<v Speaker 6>He wanted to finish what he had started. In the
<v Speaker 6>early morning hours of April twenty third, twenty twenty three,
<v Speaker 6>twenty two year old Charlie Starner was clinging to his
<v Speaker 6>life after being stabbed multiple times at a party at
<v Speaker 6>a secluded rental cabin in the woods of Sugar Grove, Ohio.
<v Speaker 6>And I mentioned how nice Ohio is at this time
<v Speaker 6>of year. Ohio really is the heart of it all
<v Speaker 6>when the heart isn't being stabbed, that is. As detectives
<v Speaker 6>scrambled to make sense of this chaos, witness after witness
<v Speaker 6>identified the attacker as twenty year old Isaac Pence. They
<v Speaker 6>also warned police that Isaac wasn't done. Apparently he planned
<v Speaker 6>a return to the cabin to finish what he started.
<v Speaker 6>To prevent another wave of violence. Officers were posted at
<v Speaker 6>the end of the cabin's driveway where they braced for
<v Speaker 6>Isaac's return, but he never showed. By morning, police shifted
<v Speaker 6>gears and went looking for him. They found Isaac fast
<v Speaker 6>asleep at the home that he shared with his mother, stepfather,
<v Speaker 6>two younger siblings, and his fiance, the infamous Sabra Flag.
<v Speaker 6>Officers took both Isaac and Sabra into custody and began
<v Speaker 6>questioning Isaac's mom.
<v Speaker 4>Do you normally keep their children on a regular Basela?
<v Speaker 3>Okay?
<v Speaker 5>And they go out and do whatever?
<v Speaker 4>Any history of drug us in abouse?
<v Speaker 22>No?
<v Speaker 4>How about alcohol, yes, between both of them or one of.
<v Speaker 7>Them her so much.
<v Speaker 4>But you know Isaac drinks just about every weekend.
<v Speaker 5>Would you say has anger issues?
<v Speaker 10>Oh yeah, totally, okay.
<v Speaker 3>I mean sometimes he does get really mad when he's drinking.
<v Speaker 6>When detectives arrived at Isaac's home, they were met with
<v Speaker 6>a few surprises. First, they discovered that Isaac and Sabra
<v Speaker 6>had two young children, a one year old and a
<v Speaker 6>four month old. Neither of them seemed to be carrying
<v Speaker 6>themselves like parents, are you surprised or are you starting
<v Speaker 6>to recognize patterns yet? The day to day care of
<v Speaker 6>the children fell mostly to Isaac's mother, who also informed
<v Speaker 6>investigators that her son struggled with alcoholism and a history
<v Speaker 6>of violent behavior.
<v Speaker 7>Nuh duh.
<v Speaker 5>How long have they lived here?
<v Speaker 4>Isaac's been here his whole life.
<v Speaker 5>Sabra has been here on and off for the last
<v Speaker 5>two years. Three years.
<v Speaker 4>Is that about how long they've been together. They've been
<v Speaker 4>together four years, four years?
<v Speaker 19>Okay.
<v Speaker 6>Once they gathered enough background information on Isaac and Sabra,
<v Speaker 6>detectives turned their focus to the night of the stabbing.
<v Speaker 6>They asked Isaac's parents what they knew about the party
<v Speaker 6>at the cabin.
<v Speaker 12>Do you know where.
<v Speaker 4>Isaac and Sabra were at last night?
<v Speaker 3>There's no clue, Okay, do you know what time they
<v Speaker 3>arrived back at the home.
<v Speaker 4>They showed up about five o'clock because they're working me
<v Speaker 4>up beating on the door. Okay, so they were beaten
<v Speaker 4>on the door. Arrived back here at about five am.
<v Speaker 4>Did they say anything when they came in? Not really,
<v Speaker 4>did you notice anything out of the norm. It just
<v Speaker 4>seemed like they were like irritated and like mad.
<v Speaker 5>Okay.
<v Speaker 6>Another thing that took detectives by surprise was the state
<v Speaker 6>of the home. You see, it was completely filthy. There
<v Speaker 6>was trash thrown about everywhere, and the stench of urine
<v Speaker 6>and dogshit was just oh overwhelming. Then again this was Ohio,
<v Speaker 6>how long has your house.
<v Speaker 17>Been like this?
<v Speaker 18>So the scores, you know, a hole here there at
<v Speaker 18>the wall, and trash and the order what I'm talking
<v Speaker 18>trash in the house.
<v Speaker 9>Oh yeah, yeah, we've we've had a health time trying
<v Speaker 9>to keep everything cleaned up since you know, we don't
<v Speaker 9>have any health at all, and like I'm recuperating from
<v Speaker 9>a heart attack. So we just had a heart attack
<v Speaker 9>and I was the one that had I had a
<v Speaker 9>tester erical and it's pemonia level in your house is ridiculous.
<v Speaker 6>Concerned by the smell detectives tested for ammonia levels inside
<v Speaker 6>the home. The results were off the charts, which is
<v Speaker 6>an extreme health risk, especially for children. When asked about it,
<v Speaker 6>Isaac's parents pointed the finger squarely at Isaac and Sabra.
<v Speaker 9>But the whole doll thing that they've had that bed
<v Speaker 9>roude the whole time that they've had that doll here.
<v Speaker 9>They don't take it out to use the bathroom for
<v Speaker 9>an elfandles just she's the bathroom everywhere.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.
<v Speaker 6>After removing Isaac and Sabra from their disgusting home, officers
<v Speaker 6>transported both of them to the Sheriff's office. Once there,
<v Speaker 6>Sabra was the first to be interviewed.
<v Speaker 2>My brother's the one who's through the party for his birthday, right, yes.
<v Speaker 5>For his birthday.
<v Speaker 2>Darlon's black and he I already talked it with him,
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, you because they've you, my brother
<v Speaker 2>Isaac have had some issues in the past, but they
<v Speaker 2>were trying to get over.
<v Speaker 11>It because my brother wanted to be more involved in
<v Speaker 11>my life. He wanted to be more involved in his
<v Speaker 11>nephew's life.
<v Speaker 4>And I was like, well, he's.
<v Speaker 11>Part of my life, you know.
<v Speaker 7>I love them.
<v Speaker 11>I want to work things out with him. He's to
<v Speaker 11>bothering both of my kids. So he was like, yeah,
<v Speaker 11>this fine, you guys can come, you know, just no drama.
<v Speaker 11>I was like, yeah, he's fine.
<v Speaker 2>He's probably not even drinking, and if he does, he's
<v Speaker 2>all I want to drink a little bit because we.
<v Speaker 4>Have to go home.
<v Speaker 18>I have to open.
<v Speaker 6>Saber began her interview by explaining how she and Isaac
<v Speaker 6>ended up at her brother Dalton's birthday party at the cabin.
<v Speaker 6>She admitted Dalton didn't want Isaac there, but she had
<v Speaker 6>convinced him that there would be no drama. That promise,
<v Speaker 6>of course, was broken. Sabra went on to describe how
<v Speaker 6>the night changed from fun and happy times to horrible,
<v Speaker 6>bloody violence, and all of.
<v Speaker 2>A sudden, I hear this that, like, you know, arguing,
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh my gosh, please, it's not
<v Speaker 2>with Isaac.
<v Speaker 5>I go out and I hear like a bunch.
<v Speaker 7>Of different stories.
<v Speaker 2>Isaac and a few other people are saying that he
<v Speaker 2>accidentally pushed Horizon, which is.
<v Speaker 11>My brother's girlfriend.
<v Speaker 2>Then my brother was sitting here saying he intentionally pushed her.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he intentionally pushed her. He's not the
<v Speaker 2>type of person. He's not violent, especially with girls, so
<v Speaker 2>I know he's not that type of person.
<v Speaker 11>And they're sitting here arguing.
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to talk to Isaac to calm down, because
<v Speaker 2>I'm like one of the only people that can coming down.
<v Speaker 11>I'm like, okay, let's just you.
<v Speaker 2>Know, if anything, let's just go in your car, sit
<v Speaker 2>for like a couple of hours, and then he can
<v Speaker 2>go home. And then they followed us outside. They all
<v Speaker 2>start like like trying to fight Isaac all at the
<v Speaker 2>same time. I don't know exactly who it was because
<v Speaker 2>there were so many people, but I know that there
<v Speaker 2>was like three or four people trying to fight Isaac
<v Speaker 2>at the same time.
<v Speaker 6>Sabra's version of events clashed with just about every other witness.
<v Speaker 6>According to her, Isaac wasn't the aggressor. He was the
<v Speaker 6>victim back into a corner and forced to defend himself
<v Speaker 6>against a group of guys just looking for a fight
<v Speaker 6>out of nowhere. Oh my gosh.
<v Speaker 2>And it was like ten guys, all my brother's friends,
<v Speaker 2>and this guy I think his name is Clay.
<v Speaker 11>He pushed Isaac and Isaac got flying back into a
<v Speaker 11>car and Isaac I don't know if he like pushed
<v Speaker 11>him or back or what he did, but I tried.
<v Speaker 2>To intervene and I was like, and he's just trying
<v Speaker 2>to protect himself.
<v Speaker 12>Like there's like ten guys jumping him.
<v Speaker 11>And I was like, I was like, it's not his soul.
<v Speaker 4>And somehow I.
<v Speaker 2>Fall and they were like trampling all over and I
<v Speaker 2>have big bruise on my knee. And then I still
<v Speaker 2>hear them fighting over here and Isaac he got in
<v Speaker 2>the car and he goes, Saber.
<v Speaker 1>Come on, come on, come on.
<v Speaker 2>Then I got in the car and he drove off
<v Speaker 2>because I think people were coming back at him.
<v Speaker 11>And he was like, OK, God, I'm done, and so
<v Speaker 11>we just drove off.
<v Speaker 6>There was one glaring omission and Saber's story. Did you
<v Speaker 6>catch it? I'll give you a hint. It has to
<v Speaker 6>do with pointy things going stabby stabby. Weird how she
<v Speaker 6>missed the most interesting part of the story, huh. Naturally,
<v Speaker 6>detectives pressed her about this.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know someone got stabbed until way after
<v Speaker 2>it left, and I was like, I think I sat
<v Speaker 2>that dude.
<v Speaker 5>I think I stabbed him.
<v Speaker 11>I was like, what the heck do you mean he's like,
<v Speaker 11>I think I stabbed him.
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh my god, I like you literally
<v Speaker 2>ran away, like not what you should do.
<v Speaker 6>Saber claimed she hadn't seen anyone get stabbed, and that
<v Speaker 6>she only heard about it afterwards. She wasn't too curious
<v Speaker 6>about it either. In fact, she doesn't seem to be
<v Speaker 6>too curious about anything really. When asked where she and
<v Speaker 6>Isaac went after fleeing the cabin, she said they made
<v Speaker 6>a quick stop at a friend's house, someone named Justin,
<v Speaker 6>before heading home.
<v Speaker 7>So when you were at Justin's house, what did you
<v Speaker 7>guys do there?
<v Speaker 2>So we sed to self there to look at Isaac's car,
<v Speaker 2>and then I went in and p our use of
<v Speaker 2>afron and I came out and I was looking at
<v Speaker 2>Isa's car with him and Justin.
<v Speaker 11>They smelled to Sarah and then we left and then
<v Speaker 11>we went straight home.
<v Speaker 6>This brief stop at Justin's would eventually become an important
<v Speaker 6>part of this case, but more on that later. After
<v Speaker 6>questioning Sabra, detectives moved on to Isaac.
<v Speaker 7>Who you live there with my mom? Instead of do
<v Speaker 7>I get a little brother? Litle's okay?
<v Speaker 16>Then Sabra and my two kids and my fielance.
<v Speaker 11>Okay, all right, And how old are your children?
<v Speaker 7>One is one and one is four months. How far
<v Speaker 7>did you make it through school? About? I think eleventh grade?
<v Speaker 7>Eleventh grade? Okay, did you get your ged or anything?
<v Speaker 22>Now?
<v Speaker 16>I went straight into concrete as sin as I turned eighteen,
<v Speaker 16>and I wanted to go and get a different career.
<v Speaker 7>But every time I go, when I started different jobs.
<v Speaker 5>It's like, oh, well, just pull it off, pull off,
<v Speaker 5>pull it off.
<v Speaker 7>Okay, so I'm wanting to at some point.
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Detective's got more background info from Isaac, this overachiever.
<v Speaker 6>This criminal background wasn't extensive, but it was certainly concerning.
<v Speaker 7>Have you been in trouble or anything at all?
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, okay, for what I've got an assault change on
<v Speaker 16>her mom, you know, assault charge on her mom.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, agos out this month.
<v Speaker 11>Yeah.
<v Speaker 7>I cannot win with the family.
<v Speaker 6>I cannot win with this family, he said, after admitting
<v Speaker 6>to an assault charge on his girlfriend's mom, you know,
<v Speaker 6>his kid's grandma. He says this matter of factly and
<v Speaker 6>completely un ironically. I swear you'll never convince a retard.
<v Speaker 6>They're not a genius. Going forward, You'll start to see
<v Speaker 6>a pattern here with Isaac. If you're smart enough to
<v Speaker 6>see patterns. Nothing is ever his fault.
<v Speaker 5>So it sounds like you guys came up here for
<v Speaker 5>a birthday party. Is that correct?
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it was brother's birthday. Me and her brothers never
<v Speaker 7>get along.
<v Speaker 16>Okay, it was in their whole time, and it's like,
<v Speaker 16>this is a b idea I want to make her happy.
<v Speaker 7>It sounds like, you know, I will try to put
<v Speaker 7>my PRIs on it. Let's go ahead and go. Okay,
<v Speaker 7>we were there. Thing was good.
<v Speaker 16>Well, everything was completely fine, and we're having a good time.
<v Speaker 6>Isaac claimed that he didn't want to go to Dalton's
<v Speaker 6>birthday party, but out of the goodness of his heart,
<v Speaker 6>he decided that being there would make Saber happy. What
<v Speaker 6>a selfless stand up guy he is.
<v Speaker 16>We're all seeing right here in the hallway, and someone
<v Speaker 16>did pushing me, so I pushed him back. Well, Dunton
<v Speaker 16>thought that I pushed his girlfriend wise, and so he
<v Speaker 16>got all of his stuff. That's when everyone tried to
<v Speaker 16>jump me. Well, I kind of know what I'm doing
<v Speaker 16>a little bit, so I started throwing them to the side.
<v Speaker 16>I went outside, and that's when they started trying to
<v Speaker 16>him at me. It was all at once and so
<v Speaker 16>I was just tossing to the side and they all
<v Speaker 16>just kept going.
<v Speaker 7>So I went to my car. I shouldn't do her.
<v Speaker 7>S Hey, if you want to go, then where you want.
<v Speaker 7>Well they came and they got the.
<v Speaker 16>Hoss car and they took her sunglasses, I know, her
<v Speaker 16>actual glasses, and her purse out trying to keep her
<v Speaker 16>just stay.
<v Speaker 7>There, and I was like, well, with everything going on,
<v Speaker 7>like I'm going to leave.
<v Speaker 6>Much like Sabra Isaac's version of events clashed with every
<v Speaker 6>other witness. That's because absolutely no murder and the history
<v Speaker 6>of mankind has ever started with a completely innocent dude
<v Speaker 6>getting pushed and mobbed at a festive gathering for absolutely
<v Speaker 6>no reason. But don't let common sense smack it across
<v Speaker 6>the face.
<v Speaker 16>Once they started sitting there trying to bust the glass
<v Speaker 16>to get to me, that's when I put out a knife.
<v Speaker 7>I was like, hey, you need back up, and they
<v Speaker 7>didn't want listen. No one want to listen. So you
<v Speaker 7>were in your car, So what did you do? Did
<v Speaker 7>you open the car a little back up? No, they
<v Speaker 7>ended up opening my car door. They did. Yeah.
<v Speaker 16>It was two or three guys were sitting there and
<v Speaker 16>they're just yanking. I was trying to hold it as
<v Speaker 16>good as I could. They want I was like, listen,
<v Speaker 16>just start poking.
<v Speaker 7>Out a little bit, okay.
<v Speaker 16>I didn't try to do it to physically hurting body
<v Speaker 16>really bad, but I did just like like, hey, I
<v Speaker 16>have a knife, come down. They wouldn't stop. They just
<v Speaker 16>kept going. So I tried to step the one guy
<v Speaker 16>in the arm just so they would get it.
<v Speaker 7>So he was right there beside you. Yeah, he opened
<v Speaker 7>my corriwor and he's coming trying to grab me. He's
<v Speaker 7>coming to try to grab me. Yeah, that's why I
<v Speaker 7>st to have his arm.
<v Speaker 27>Well.
<v Speaker 7>As soon as I stepped him in the arm, they left.
<v Speaker 16>The Let you guys took off completely, okay, And that's
<v Speaker 16>when Saber got.
<v Speaker 7>In the car and I took off.
<v Speaker 6>Isaac also claimed that he only stabbed Charlie in the arm,
<v Speaker 6>but the detectives obviously knew better. After all, they weren't
<v Speaker 6>retarded like Isaac. They of course knew Charlie had been
<v Speaker 6>stabbed multiple times all over his body. This was a
<v Speaker 6>careless lie on Isaac's part, and one that would make
<v Speaker 6>him look way more guilty.
<v Speaker 7>He stabbed the guy in the yarm one time. I
<v Speaker 7>think it was voice twice. Are you? Are you sure
<v Speaker 7>wasn't more than that, because there's more stab wounds than that.
<v Speaker 7>I didn't think I was.
<v Speaker 16>Because I'd tried to just get him to go with.
<v Speaker 16>I was not trying to hurt him, didn't want he added,
<v Speaker 16>I just wanted him to go with because there's fifteen.
<v Speaker 6>Us as a friend, Jean stabbing someone as a preventative measure.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, okay.
<v Speaker 6>After giving this bullshit version of the stabbing, Isaac went
<v Speaker 6>on to tell two more lies that would later come
<v Speaker 6>back to haunt him.
<v Speaker 7>So did did you go? Where'd you go after that?
<v Speaker 7>I went straight home? Okay, you're knife. You don't know
<v Speaker 7>exactly where you put it.
<v Speaker 16>They're looking for a new car right now, no clue wordness,
<v Speaker 16>it's in my car or it that was that property.
<v Speaker 6>Not only did Isaac's story contradict at least ten other
<v Speaker 6>witness statements, but it didn't even align with Saber's story.
<v Speaker 6>These two idiots couldn't even get their story straight. He
<v Speaker 6>told detectives that after the stabbing, he went straight home,
<v Speaker 6>conveniently leaving out the stop at Justin's house. Naturally, detectives
<v Speaker 6>were curious about why he would lie about that. They
<v Speaker 6>planned to reach out to Justin and question him about
<v Speaker 6>Isaac's early morning visit to his house, but before they
<v Speaker 6>got the chance, Justin called them, Tarry friend.
<v Speaker 25>Showed up to my house like breath thirty this morning, drunk,
<v Speaker 25>and he was flipping out, like saying that he got
<v Speaker 25>jumped at some party that he was at and he
<v Speaker 25>had to use an IF on someone.
<v Speaker 10>And I told him they didn't want.
<v Speaker 25>To hear antonom he needed to leave and turn himself
<v Speaker 25>in because he can't just make something like that go
<v Speaker 25>away for a He threw the knife over there.
<v Speaker 6>Justin told detectives that Isaac tossed a knife into a
<v Speaker 6>bush near Justin's driveway. Police then recovered the weapon, which
<v Speaker 6>was still spattered with Charlie's blood. In a follow up interview,
<v Speaker 6>Justin also revealed something else Isaac had talked about returning
<v Speaker 6>to the cabin to do even more damage.
<v Speaker 7>He did say.
<v Speaker 25>Stuff like that of your house kind of it was
<v Speaker 25>more of like he just wanted to go back and
<v Speaker 25>beat up the other people that were trying to jump him.
<v Speaker 7>Okay, all right.
<v Speaker 6>As the investigation deepened, more of Isaac's lies unraveled. Detectives
<v Speaker 6>learned that after ditching the knife, he and Sabra made
<v Speaker 6>yet another stop, this time to visit Sabro's mother.
<v Speaker 5>So they did end up coming to your place.
<v Speaker 11>Yes, they were there fifteen twenty minute.
<v Speaker 5>I don't even think twenty minutes.
<v Speaker 19>He's just talking about how he was going to get
<v Speaker 19>what he needed.
<v Speaker 5>And he was going out out there.
<v Speaker 6>By now, detectives had gathered multiple witness statements that pretty
<v Speaker 6>much proved both Isaac and Sabra had lied about what
<v Speaker 6>led up to the stabbing, the stabbing itself, and what
<v Speaker 6>they did afterwards. But the most damning evidence was still
<v Speaker 6>to come.
<v Speaker 12>There is a camera on cabin six, Is that correct?
<v Speaker 11>Yes?
<v Speaker 12>Would it have been.
<v Speaker 7>Recording at all or doing any kind of recording last.
<v Speaker 9>Night video but on audio audio.
<v Speaker 22>I need that video preserved, and I need to get
<v Speaker 22>that video here at our office as soon as I
<v Speaker 22>can get it.
<v Speaker 6>Detectives contacted the owner of the rental cabin, who turned
<v Speaker 6>over surveillance footage from a motion activated camera mounted on
<v Speaker 6>the front porch. Though it didn't capture the stabbing, it
<v Speaker 6>revealed the moments leading up to it. The footage showed
<v Speaker 6>what several witnesses had already described. Near the front porch
<v Speaker 6>of the cabin, Dalton's friends physically held Dalton away from
<v Speaker 6>Isaac to keep him from fighting. At the same time,
<v Speaker 6>a group surrounded Isaac gesturing for him to leave. There's
<v Speaker 6>no audio, but the body language is clear they weren't
<v Speaker 6>looking for a fight. Then Isaac threw a wild punch
<v Speaker 6>at the crowd. It missed. Someone shoved him back against
<v Speaker 6>a parked car. A few partygoers then grabbed Isaac and
<v Speaker 6>carried him towards his car, right out of the camera's view.
<v Speaker 6>See how that series of events actually makes sense? Or
<v Speaker 6>are you also from Ohio? Yeah, I'm talking to you.
<v Speaker 6>This footage was pretty important as it showed the partygoers
<v Speaker 6>were not trying to hurt Isaac. They just wanted him
<v Speaker 6>to leave before things got worse. But this wasn't the
<v Speaker 6>only video that detectives recovered.
<v Speaker 8>Well, I flew off the porch so fast and I
<v Speaker 8>ended up on record of my truck because I thought
<v Speaker 8>Isaac was.
<v Speaker 2>Going to in my car, so I started recording the
<v Speaker 2>video in the circumstance.
<v Speaker 28>That he hit record, and I captured the entire stabbing.
<v Speaker 6>Remember Amanda Chapman, she's the young woman who rushed to
<v Speaker 6>Charlie's side after the stabbing. She had the presence of
<v Speaker 6>mind to pull out her phone and hit record when
<v Speaker 6>the fight started. What you're about to hear comes from
<v Speaker 6>Amanda's cell phone. These are the final seconds just before
<v Speaker 6>the stabbing.
<v Speaker 12>My car Watch It.
<v Speaker 6>Savages. Amanda's footage begins with Isaac halfway sitting in the
<v Speaker 6>driver's seat, his door cracked open, and his one foot
<v Speaker 6>on the ground outside of his Several people are trying
<v Speaker 6>to close the door, but Isaac resists, pushing back against them.
<v Speaker 6>People are shouting, get the hell out of here and
<v Speaker 6>get in your car. No one is threatening Isaac, no
<v Speaker 6>one is swinging. They just want him gone. Charlie Starner
<v Speaker 6>is among the voices the video shows, embracing against the door,
<v Speaker 6>trying to keep Isaac in the car. Then, without warning,
<v Speaker 6>Isaac grabs a knife from the center console. He stands,
<v Speaker 6>slips part way out of the car, and opens the blade.
<v Speaker 6>What follows is horrifying. In the audio, you can hear
<v Speaker 6>the metallic click of the knife being opened, right before
<v Speaker 6>Isaac swings again and again, plunging the blade into Charlie's back,
<v Speaker 6>neck and anywhere that Isaac can reach. Fair warning, this
<v Speaker 6>next bit of audio is not an easy listen.
<v Speaker 11>Car.
<v Speaker 6>The video cuts off, but witnesses filled in the rest.
<v Speaker 6>After the stabbing, Charlie collapsed, his friends dragged him away,
<v Speaker 6>while Isaac slammed the car door shut and sped off
<v Speaker 6>with Sabra or whatever the fucker name is. Later, more
<v Speaker 6>surveillance footage surface, this time from Justin's house. On it,
<v Speaker 6>Isaac can be seen tossing the knife into a bush
<v Speaker 6>before disappearing into the night. Isaac had already lied to
<v Speaker 6>detectives during his first interview, but now armed with this
<v Speaker 6>overwhelming evidence, they questioned him a second time, and they
<v Speaker 6>had some devastating news.
<v Speaker 3>What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody.
<v Speaker 3>He's dead and died.
<v Speaker 5>He died at eight thirty one this morning. The world
<v Speaker 5>lost a father.
<v Speaker 4>He leaves behind a nine and a half month old son.
<v Speaker 5>Named jet Okay. A mother and father lost their son.
<v Speaker 3>A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on
<v Speaker 3>for several minutes waiting.
<v Speaker 5>For a medic to get there to try and save
<v Speaker 5>his life.
<v Speaker 4>He died at Grant's morning, and you're facing murder charges.
<v Speaker 6>Roughly five and a half hours after the stabbing, Charlie
<v Speaker 6>Starner died at Grant Medical Center in Columbus, Ohio. Despite
<v Speaker 6>the doctor's best efforts and emergency surgery, Charlie's heart gave out.
<v Speaker 6>With his death, the case shifted and got a whole
<v Speaker 6>lot more serious. Both Isaac Pence and Saber Flagg were
<v Speaker 6>now facing murder charges in a lifetime behind bars. On
<v Speaker 6>April twenty third, twenty twenty three, twenty year old Isaac
<v Speaker 6>Pence and his fiance Sabra Flag were taken into police
<v Speaker 6>custody after a night of violence at a cabin party
<v Speaker 6>that left twenty two year old Charlie Starner dead. Isaac
<v Speaker 6>and Sabra lied repeatedly during their first interviews with detectives,
<v Speaker 6>hoping to cover their tracks, but when detectives brought them
<v Speaker 6>back for a second round, this time armed with overwhelming evidence,
<v Speaker 6>their lies began to unravel. They started with Sabra and
<v Speaker 6>quickly broke the tragic news that Charlie was dead.
<v Speaker 4>So, mother to mother, you.
<v Speaker 29>Love your children, right, okay, and you want to see
<v Speaker 29>your kids again some day because today somebody.
<v Speaker 4>Actions made it so.
<v Speaker 29>A mother lost her son, a father lost his son,
<v Speaker 29>somebody lost their boyfriend. Okay, several friends lost another friend
<v Speaker 29>who bled out at the hands of someone that you care.
<v Speaker 4>About, and you know something, I really I don't. You
<v Speaker 4>were there, Yeah, but I didn't.
<v Speaker 11>I didn't know he got stabbed.
<v Speaker 4>I didn't.
<v Speaker 11>I didn't know that until after he would left.
<v Speaker 10>I swear, if.
<v Speaker 3>You're trying to protect this man, you're going to go
<v Speaker 3>down as an accomplished from her.
<v Speaker 7>I'm not. I promise.
<v Speaker 3>You know something, and your allegiance to this man is
<v Speaker 3>going to get you nowhere, because let me tell you,
<v Speaker 3>he's going to prison.
<v Speaker 7>I didn't.
<v Speaker 17>I didn't.
<v Speaker 12>I swear on anything.
<v Speaker 11>I did not know he got subbed until after we left.
<v Speaker 11>I'm not trying to protect him.
<v Speaker 4>So what did he say after he stabbed him? Because
<v Speaker 4>you guys drove away together, he had to up said something.
<v Speaker 12>He didn't.
<v Speaker 11>He really didn't, he said, I don't want to think
<v Speaker 11>he said anything. He just got in the car. I
<v Speaker 11>want the car.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know, and I didn't know until ten or
<v Speaker 2>so minutes later that he said, I.
<v Speaker 11>Think I think I stepped someone and someone something along
<v Speaker 11>the lines of that. I didn't know, because if I
<v Speaker 11>would have known, I would have left.
<v Speaker 6>That promise detectives confronted Sabro with the harsh reality of
<v Speaker 6>her situation, but she continued to resist coming clean. She
<v Speaker 6>maintained her efforts to downplay Isaac's behavior and minimize what
<v Speaker 6>he had done.
<v Speaker 7>He died, he's dead, he's gone.
<v Speaker 2>You know, So.
<v Speaker 7>You were honest you today.
<v Speaker 5>See, it's the paramount of what we need now.
<v Speaker 7>Okay, I spoke to your mother on the time.
<v Speaker 5>So did I want you to be honest? I'm not.
<v Speaker 7>You know he's against wim correct. He's been violent before
<v Speaker 7>against swimming.
<v Speaker 5>Correct. He was violent against your own mama.
<v Speaker 11>Talking about he so, yes, he did push my mom?
<v Speaker 2>Did what he pushed my mom because he went to
<v Speaker 2>court for it.
<v Speaker 11>He told me earlier that he would never do that
<v Speaker 11>to a woman. Correctly, I totally forgot about my mom.
<v Speaker 10>I'm so sorry.
<v Speaker 5>I help you get your mom.
<v Speaker 7>How can you forget about your mom?
<v Speaker 5>He trying to protect him.
<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm going to tell you that I talked to
<v Speaker 3>his parents and they said that he's an explosive, angry,
<v Speaker 3>violent and drunk.
<v Speaker 4>He is.
<v Speaker 7>He is.
<v Speaker 2>He's never been like like aggressive to me. He just
<v Speaker 2>he gets aggressive and he'll like he pushes back when she'll.
<v Speaker 11>He does stupid things when he's drunk. I always the
<v Speaker 11>first swim with thought.
<v Speaker 6>This was another lie. Out of all the detective interviews,
<v Speaker 6>was the last one, the very last person to admit
<v Speaker 6>that Isaac had a habit of becoming violent when he drank.
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to tell you right now that my specialty
<v Speaker 3>is domestic violence, sexual assault, and crimes against children and
<v Speaker 3>the living conditions that your children are in.
<v Speaker 30>Our crime a deplorable, sickening crime. I'm thirty five years
<v Speaker 30>old and I could barely breathe in that house. I
<v Speaker 30>went to where you sleep, like, do you think that
<v Speaker 30>this is normal, that this is an okay situation? Is
<v Speaker 30>this what you want your babies growing up in?
<v Speaker 27>Definitely not.
<v Speaker 11>We were trying to save up for an apartment at
<v Speaker 11>our house.
<v Speaker 2>We were just trying to find some somewhere to go
<v Speaker 2>on our own because we don't.
<v Speaker 5>I vaguely am the mess on Isaac and you.
<v Speaker 3>There's dog feces everywhere there.
<v Speaker 4>The ammonia in that house is horrible.
<v Speaker 29>We've made a.
<v Speaker 4>Referral to have your children emergency.
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to tell you that the living conditions, the trash.
<v Speaker 30>The bugs, the cobwebs, the lack of running water.
<v Speaker 5>That's it's not normal. Your babies are going to get sick.
<v Speaker 4>And if you care anything about your baby's take to
<v Speaker 4>heart what Lieutenant m Night is telling you. I'm gonna
<v Speaker 4>tell you know how. I know you're full of shit.
<v Speaker 3>You went to your mom's, you went to Justin's all
<v Speaker 3>before you went back to the house.
<v Speaker 4>I talked to your mom.
<v Speaker 18>I did go to the moms.
<v Speaker 11>I'm totally forgot. I'm so sorry.
<v Speaker 28>Are you forgetting because you were drunk, or you forgetting
<v Speaker 28>because you were high because she doesn't.
<v Speaker 7>Want to tell us?
<v Speaker 6>The truth was smacked with more and more evidence that
<v Speaker 6>exposed your bullshit, and it just kept coming.
<v Speaker 4>You told your mommy you were going.
<v Speaker 5>To come back to the house.
<v Speaker 3>Of the matter of fact, you said you were going
<v Speaker 3>to stop by Isaac's house and you guys.
<v Speaker 4>Were coming back to the cabin because you were going
<v Speaker 4>to get your shit. I don't you texted, You texted
<v Speaker 4>a horizon.
<v Speaker 5>I saw the messages. You said.
<v Speaker 29>I need my purse, I need my shoes, I need
<v Speaker 29>my glasses. If I don't get those things back, somebody,
<v Speaker 29>I'm calling the cops.
<v Speaker 4>Those were your priorities.
<v Speaker 29>Not hey, my man, sab somebody, how's that kid's condition?
<v Speaker 7>Not once today have you asked about how he was?
<v Speaker 18>I had you have no care?
<v Speaker 4>Oh did you know that he has a ten month
<v Speaker 4>old son.
<v Speaker 5>I didn't name jet.
<v Speaker 11>I honestly had no clue.
<v Speaker 5>So now you.
<v Speaker 4>Left another baby without a parent, just like your kids are.
<v Speaker 3>Going to be left without their parents because you guys
<v Speaker 3>are gonna go sit in PRIs for the next twenty.
<v Speaker 4>Five years to life for murder.
<v Speaker 6>When faced with a lengthy prison sentence, the only thing
<v Speaker 6>these idiots understand. It seemed like the detectives had finally
<v Speaker 6>broken through to Sabra and she agreed to tell the
<v Speaker 6>full truth. At least that's what she claimed.
<v Speaker 24>His time to stop lying and tell us the truth
<v Speaker 24>because you're leaving stuff.
<v Speaker 5>I don't trying to sugarcoat it.
<v Speaker 7>All we're asking for you to do is the truth.
<v Speaker 7>The only thing you have is your word, and you're
<v Speaker 7>not telling us.
<v Speaker 11>The whole truth or a Now, okay, I'll start a promise.
<v Speaker 7>What did you see about the stabbing.
<v Speaker 5>And see it?
<v Speaker 2>And I'm being completely trustful on everything. I didn't see
<v Speaker 2>any or get stabbing and see anyone fall to the floor.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see anything.
<v Speaker 6>When someone says they're being completely truthful, that's a sure
<v Speaker 6>sign there not. Sabra continued to insist that she hadn't
<v Speaker 6>witnessed the stabbing, and the cell phone footage somewhat supports
<v Speaker 6>her claim. Though the video is dark and grainy, it
<v Speaker 6>seems to show Sabra distracted, focused on something else and
<v Speaker 6>not looking in Isaac's direction when he attacked Charlie. It's
<v Speaker 6>possible she didn't realize that stabbing had taken place until
<v Speaker 6>after they fled the scene. That said, there is a
<v Speaker 6>moment just before the stabbing where Sabra reaches into the
<v Speaker 6>center console and it looks as though she may be
<v Speaker 6>handing something to Isaac. This raised the question did Sabra
<v Speaker 6>provide the murder weapon? Unfortunately, the view of the center
<v Speaker 6>console is obstructed, so we're not likely to get an
<v Speaker 6>answer to that question in truth. Once Saber agreed to
<v Speaker 6>be completely honest, her story didn't change very much. The
<v Speaker 6>biggest shift was in how she talked about Isaac. Based
<v Speaker 6>with a looming threat of prison time, she suddenly seemed
<v Speaker 6>far more willing to throw him under the bus.
<v Speaker 12>Me and Brito on stairs, we were wanting to go
<v Speaker 12>in the hot tub, and I was like, well.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if Isaac will freak out or not,
<v Speaker 2>because he was He's very you know, he doesn't.
<v Speaker 11>Like if I'm like in a bathing suit around a
<v Speaker 11>bunch of guys.
<v Speaker 5>He's very jealous, so controlling.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Then all of a sudden, I hear people arguing constantly,
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, what the heck is going on?
<v Speaker 5>So we all run back into.
<v Speaker 2>The house and it's like it's a big huddle with people,
<v Speaker 2>and on time figure out who was arguing.
<v Speaker 4>And then I realized it was Isaac.
<v Speaker 11>I didn't know who he was arguing with.
<v Speaker 2>They were like trying to push him out, and I
<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, let's just go, Like, let's just go,
<v Speaker 2>and he was sitting He's like, no, just shut the
<v Speaker 2>fuck up.
<v Speaker 12>I'm sitting here with people.
<v Speaker 11>He was starting cussing out the people. I'm just like,
<v Speaker 11>come on, let's go.
<v Speaker 5>And I was crying.
<v Speaker 2>I was like, just please, let's go, and he's like, no,
<v Speaker 2>fuck this, fuck that, fuck everyone.
<v Speaker 6>Unlike her first telling, Sabra now admitted that Isaac had
<v Speaker 6>been the aggressor at the party. Surprise, surprise, this version
<v Speaker 6>of events was far closer to the truth.
<v Speaker 4>Can you tell you where he stabbed him?
<v Speaker 11>No, he said that he thought he stabbed him in
<v Speaker 11>the arm.
<v Speaker 5>That's what he said.
<v Speaker 12>And I was like, okay, Like, did you stab.
<v Speaker 5>Him anywhere else? I don't think so.
<v Speaker 3>Do you know that this gentleman was stabbed six times?
<v Speaker 3>I did not know that her stab in the jaw
<v Speaker 3>right here, in the side of his neck, around his back,
<v Speaker 3>twice in his chest, and another one in between his.
<v Speaker 4>Head and his neck.
<v Speaker 7>Oh my god.
<v Speaker 11>He shouldn't have stabbed anybody. It should have been a calm, cool,
<v Speaker 11>collected night. This was one night though me and him
<v Speaker 11>didn't have any kids.
<v Speaker 3>And I mean, I know that you guys hardly ever
<v Speaker 3>have your kids, because Ginger told me she's raising your kids.
<v Speaker 4>You guys, go and do however you want, whenever you want.
<v Speaker 4>She's stuck with these kids. She's raised all over her own.
<v Speaker 4>You know, you guys are going out and drinking and
<v Speaker 4>living your lives.
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, you don't have kids.
<v Speaker 11>And this made me realize I need to step up
<v Speaker 11>and be a better mom.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I hate to be the bearer by news,
<v Speaker 3>but you're not going to get the opportunity for a long,
<v Speaker 3>long time.
<v Speaker 4>Not only is the steak and I have custy of
<v Speaker 4>your children. You're going to jail today.
<v Speaker 5>Am I really?
<v Speaker 7>Yeah?
<v Speaker 11>But it's true I did.
<v Speaker 4>If I have my way, you're going. As an accomplished
<v Speaker 4>to murder.
<v Speaker 6>With her updated story on record, this dumb bitch was
<v Speaker 6>handcuffed and taken to jail. Next to face off with
<v Speaker 6>detectives was her fiance, Isaac Pence.
<v Speaker 5>You were at a house party.
<v Speaker 4>Kind of walked me through the events of the evening,
<v Speaker 4>well the rest of night.
<v Speaker 7>It was all completely fun, and so everyone got way
<v Speaker 7>too drunk.
<v Speaker 16>I was standing in the hallway and someone got in
<v Speaker 16>my face, so I pushed it on the way and
<v Speaker 16>then that's when about fifteen of them all wanted to
<v Speaker 16>come outside and tried and Joe me and who got.
<v Speaker 7>In your face? I'm not even sure who it was.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, who did you push out of it?
<v Speaker 7>Away?
<v Speaker 16>I pushed that person out of the way and they
<v Speaker 16>fell into a rest and they tried to say that
<v Speaker 16>I pushed her rest because as soon as she got touched,
<v Speaker 16>everyone just flipped.
<v Speaker 7>Because he just started running at me.
<v Speaker 6>At this point, Isaac was completely unaware of the mountain
<v Speaker 6>of evidence that detectives had gathered against him, and he
<v Speaker 6>didn't know that Charlie Starner had died, so naturally, Isaac
<v Speaker 6>stuck to his lies.
<v Speaker 16>After I get in my car, they all started trying
<v Speaker 16>to rip my door open, and once they got the
<v Speaker 16>door open, I just grabbed myne real quick. I was like,
<v Speaker 16>get get away, and they weren't listening. So when I
<v Speaker 16>tried to put him in the arm.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, he sat him once in the arm, and what
<v Speaker 5>happens after that?
<v Speaker 7>He kept coming, so set him again.
<v Speaker 5>So you stab him a second time, and what happens.
<v Speaker 7>I'm pretty sure that you left.
<v Speaker 16>I kind of blacked out after I got him at
<v Speaker 16>the same time because I sat shit and then I
<v Speaker 16>just kind of blacked out.
<v Speaker 7>I think I just said twice of them left.
<v Speaker 6>Conveniently, Isaac slipped into the tired excuse of blacking out.
<v Speaker 6>Funny how sharp his memory had stayed right up until
<v Speaker 6>the point where he stabbed someone to death.
<v Speaker 5>Take off from there, and where do you go? Oh?
<v Speaker 27>Think, try that again? No, okay, So it's Justin's house
<v Speaker 27>for a second. Okay, then for Justin's house, went at
<v Speaker 27>her mom's house.
<v Speaker 5>Then went well, so I'm gonna tell you. The only
<v Speaker 5>thing you have left in this world is your integrity.
<v Speaker 5>You know what integrity is?
<v Speaker 6>Do you know what integrity he is?
<v Speaker 12>I love that.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you're honesty, and I'm going to tell you that
<v Speaker 5>I have found about forty one.
<v Speaker 3>Holes already in your story. The last thing I want
<v Speaker 3>is your bullshit. Okay, what you did last night is
<v Speaker 3>fucked up. You killed somebody. He's dead and did Yeah.
<v Speaker 5>He died at eight thirty one this morning. The world
<v Speaker 5>lost a father.
<v Speaker 4>He leaves behind a nine and a half month old
<v Speaker 4>son named jet Okay.
<v Speaker 5>A mother and father lost their son.
<v Speaker 3>A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on
<v Speaker 3>for several minutes waiting for a medic to get there
<v Speaker 3>to try and save his life.
<v Speaker 4>He died at Grant this morning, and you're facing murder charges.
<v Speaker 5>He did because you didn't stab him twice.
<v Speaker 4>You sad him multiple times, way more than twice.
<v Speaker 5>I'll talk to your mom.
<v Speaker 3>I know you were a very violent, explosive person. I
<v Speaker 3>know you drink almost every weekend. You left her in
<v Speaker 3>the care and custody of your two children, Draco and Whaleen,
<v Speaker 3>who are thirteen months and four months old.
<v Speaker 4>Up been inside your bedroom, up been inside your car.
<v Speaker 5>I've had a very deep conversation with.
<v Speaker 4>Your girlfriend, your girlfriend's mother, and everyone that was at
<v Speaker 4>that cabin. You get one shot at this with me,
<v Speaker 4>and that's it. You want to start over, Let's go.
<v Speaker 6>Detectives hit Isaac with the same reality check they'd given
<v Speaker 6>to Sabra. Afterwards, he appeared slightly more willing to tell
<v Speaker 6>the truth, but much like Sabra, he couldn't stop trying
<v Speaker 6>to minimize his actions.
<v Speaker 5>How much did you drink that night?
<v Speaker 16>I think he's drank. It's pol Pagan Miller. I took
<v Speaker 16>a couple of shots of Hennessy and a bottle of cream.
<v Speaker 16>It's like green cellar apple snops.
<v Speaker 5>You drank a lot of alcohol.
<v Speaker 4>No way that you have an explosive personality when you're drunk.
<v Speaker 14>And if I tell you that, I have literally witness
<v Speaker 14>statements written witness statements of you ed pushing a horizon.
<v Speaker 7>That's what they're trying to say.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, and you're telling me that that's not true.
<v Speaker 7>I don't think that I pushed her.
<v Speaker 4>Is it possible that you could have pushed her and
<v Speaker 4>you blacked out? Given me the copious amounts of alcohol you.
<v Speaker 7>Drank, I could have, but I really I do not
<v Speaker 7>believe that I did.
<v Speaker 5>Do you think it's okay to put your hands off
<v Speaker 5>the amounts ever the sisters? Okay? Do you think it'd
<v Speaker 5>be okay for your sons to do the same? Would
<v Speaker 5>you like it if Dalton shoved sober?
<v Speaker 6>Now, I remind you this is the same guy that
<v Speaker 6>had just recently gotten out of jail for assaulting his
<v Speaker 6>baby mom's mother, his children's grandmother, So take that with
<v Speaker 6>a grain of something. Isaac claimed that he didn't or
<v Speaker 6>couldn't recall shoving Dalton's girlfriend to the ground, which was
<v Speaker 6>the act that ignited the whole night's chaos. Unfortunately for him,
<v Speaker 6>multiple witnesses, including Dalton's girlfriend, said that he did.
<v Speaker 10>He pushed you onto the ground inside the cabin.
<v Speaker 13>Yes, right by the door, two open hands, honey, clearly
<v Speaker 13>shot me okay by your chest or yeah, like my
<v Speaker 13>shoulders and chest right.
<v Speaker 6>Here after Isaac shoved Horizon, Dalton understandably exploded with anger,
<v Speaker 6>and from there the night spiraled out of control.
<v Speaker 4>Dalton comes to you.
<v Speaker 7>And says, what, uh, he was just freaking out. Then
<v Speaker 7>he's gonna be my ass and everything.
<v Speaker 16>And then once he did the anyone else jumped in
<v Speaker 16>and there is about five ten people and we went
<v Speaker 16>outside and they were all.
<v Speaker 7>Trying to hit me.
<v Speaker 5>What if I tell you that I have some mail
<v Speaker 5>on this video of them just saying it's time to leave.
<v Speaker 5>It's time to leave.
<v Speaker 7>No, because when we went because that's probably all this
<v Speaker 7>is where they're hitting me.
<v Speaker 3>Well, a scuffle ensues, but they're trying to push you
<v Speaker 3>out of the cabin and Sober was telling you it's.
<v Speaker 5>Time to go.
<v Speaker 7>Oh, I don't remember it, okay.
<v Speaker 6>Once again, Isaac's selective memory failed him, but the evidence
<v Speaker 6>was clear nobody at the party wanted more violence. Witness
<v Speaker 6>after witness confirmed that everyone simply wanted Isaac to leave.
<v Speaker 18>That in the house, I was.
<v Speaker 22>Trying to like stop him from fighting and screaming at
<v Speaker 22>each other, and we're just trying to get him to
<v Speaker 22>leave Isaac, Like everybody was.
<v Speaker 10>Just telling that kid to leave.
<v Speaker 6>Surveillance footage from the cabin backed up the witness statements,
<v Speaker 6>showing several people dragged Isaac toward his car, trying to
<v Speaker 6>get him away from the situation.
<v Speaker 5>And when you get your car, what happens.
<v Speaker 7>A knife he's pulling on the door.
<v Speaker 4>I thing I'll tell you that I have a footprint
<v Speaker 4>that tells me they.
<v Speaker 5>Were trying to close Does this Does this sound familiar?
<v Speaker 5>Now we're trying to get back out of the car,
<v Speaker 5>you know, one.
<v Speaker 3>Foot out and or you're trying to push open the
<v Speaker 3>door and somebody takes a foot.
<v Speaker 5>And closes the door.
<v Speaker 3>I have a footprint to corroborate that, and in the
<v Speaker 3>side of your equinox that says they were trying to
<v Speaker 3>get you back.
<v Speaker 5>In the car. Okay, do you remember any of that?
<v Speaker 5>At what point do you reach for the knife?
<v Speaker 7>I'm not completely sure.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, And you what happens when you grabbed this knife?
<v Speaker 7>I think just start stabbing him?
<v Speaker 4>How many times do you think you stabbed him?
<v Speaker 5>Okay? Did you say anything as you were stabbing him?
<v Speaker 5>Couldn't sell you. Did you say anything after you stabbed him?
<v Speaker 7>I think it's just left.
<v Speaker 6>Not only did the physical evidence contradict Isaac's claims that
<v Speaker 6>he was being attacked but a man the Chapman's cell
<v Speaker 6>phone video clearly showed the exact opposite. People were pushing
<v Speaker 6>on Isaac's car door trying to shut it. They weren't
<v Speaker 6>trying to pull him out. Isaac was the only one
<v Speaker 6>looking for a fight, shoving back, trying to force his
<v Speaker 6>way out of the car. Tragically, he succeeded with a
<v Speaker 6>knife in his hand.
<v Speaker 5>Because what was your next move when you left that cabin?
<v Speaker 5>That's nobody's house, And what did you say when you
<v Speaker 5>got there? I don't know what if I tell you.
<v Speaker 3>That I had your surveillance at his house and I
<v Speaker 3>have all the camera footage, and you literally look at
<v Speaker 3>Justin and say, I just fucking stab this guy?
<v Speaker 5>Is that right about? Okay? What do you do with
<v Speaker 5>the weapon when you're in there? Because certainly it wasn't.
<v Speaker 4>In the car or at the scene, like you told
<v Speaker 4>the detectives.
<v Speaker 5>You know exactly where the.
<v Speaker 4>Murder weapon was the whole time, But you told us
<v Speaker 4>the knife.
<v Speaker 3>Is definitely in the car, It's definitely at the scene
<v Speaker 3>the whole time. You sat here, knowing that we were
<v Speaker 3>on a wild goose hunt.
<v Speaker 5>You just didn't think we'd find a knife, did you?
<v Speaker 5>No knife, no crime? Is that what you were hoping for?
<v Speaker 7>Okay?
<v Speaker 6>The fact that Isaac hid the murder weapon became a
<v Speaker 6>key piece of the case. It showed a clear consciousness
<v Speaker 6>of guilt. Isaac could claim memory loss all he wanted,
<v Speaker 6>but his actions and the lies he told afterwards spoke.
<v Speaker 6>Volumes are thrown on the bush, quite through it.
<v Speaker 5>Why would you throw it?
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, okay, and we're sober.
<v Speaker 7>It's just a silicer. I think she was marching tiktoks
<v Speaker 7>on her phone.
<v Speaker 5>Washing tiktoks on her phone. No one, her boyfriend just
<v Speaker 5>stabbed someone. It's pretty normal behavior, right. I mean, hey,
<v Speaker 5>you went home and took a nap like it was
<v Speaker 5>just another day in the park for you.
<v Speaker 11>Right.
<v Speaker 5>No, I would be able to sleep if I stab somebody.
<v Speaker 7>I was too drunk and then really remember it when
<v Speaker 7>I got home, but not too.
<v Speaker 4>Drunk to drive, not too drunk to dispose of the
<v Speaker 4>murder weapon.
<v Speaker 5>Jumped to try and cover up your tracks.
<v Speaker 6>Surveillance footage outside Justin's home captured Isaac ditching the knife
<v Speaker 6>in some nearby bushes. Interestingly, Sabra was inside using the
<v Speaker 6>restroom when he did this, meaning once again it's very
<v Speaker 6>possible Sabra didn't know Isaac had hidden the weapon. This
<v Speaker 6>was another lucky break for her. As for Isaac, he
<v Speaker 6>wasn't ready for the night to end. After disposing of
<v Speaker 6>the knife, he planned to return to the cabin, this
<v Speaker 6>time armed with a gun.
<v Speaker 7>And then I remember going home me and I said,
<v Speaker 7>they got into it?
<v Speaker 5>Why did you guys get into it about?
<v Speaker 7>I think I was trying to get into the gun safe.
<v Speaker 5>Why are we trying to hit the gun sick?
<v Speaker 7>I think to get back there.
<v Speaker 3>And do well?
<v Speaker 5>Finished the deal? What else would you do?
<v Speaker 7>I think it was just to scare them because they
<v Speaker 7>wouldn't kill me.
<v Speaker 28>So you went home and you're rattling the gun safe
<v Speaker 28>trying to get into it. You took a hammer to
<v Speaker 28>the gun to see, okay.
<v Speaker 5>And what happens grabby and.
<v Speaker 7>And we end up getting in a fight over it?
<v Speaker 5>Did she punched him in the face? The black does
<v Speaker 5>left die?
<v Speaker 3>You know about that?
<v Speaker 5>You know that you just had a heart attack, and
<v Speaker 5>he's raising your kids again. Stabbing somebody wasn't enough. Today
<v Speaker 5>He went home and.
<v Speaker 4>Assaulted an old man on top of all the things
<v Speaker 4>you could have done.
<v Speaker 6>Finally, after stabbing Charlie, hiding the evidence, and assaulting his stepfather,
<v Speaker 6>this drunken, dangerous ass clown passed out in his own bed.
<v Speaker 6>He woke later that morning to the sound of police
<v Speaker 6>knocking at his door.
<v Speaker 3>So here's the problem with this whole thing is that now?
<v Speaker 3>One time today, have you or somebra asked how that kid?
<v Speaker 5>Right?
<v Speaker 7>I was thinking about it. I just didn't want to ask.
<v Speaker 5>Why not?
<v Speaker 7>I didn't want to hear it. Did you have any inclination?
<v Speaker 7>I have a feeling.
<v Speaker 5>Do you know his name was Charlie.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Charlie was just an innocent guy at that party.
<v Speaker 4>You never met Charlie before.
<v Speaker 11>That, did you.
<v Speaker 4>He grabbed Charlie by the neck, and he didn't stab
<v Speaker 4>Charlie two times.
<v Speaker 3>Stab Charlie six times the side of his neck, right here,
<v Speaker 3>on his face, twice in his side.
<v Speaker 5>Once in his back, and somewhere in between his head
<v Speaker 5>and his neck, and you left.
<v Speaker 4>You left Charlie to lay there and bleed out on
<v Speaker 4>the ground.
<v Speaker 5>Charlie didn't die right away, but Charlie, he coughed it
<v Speaker 5>out in a trauma bay.
<v Speaker 3>He made it in an airplane to a hospital in Columbus,
<v Speaker 3>made it through the surgery and then he could put
<v Speaker 3>his heart gave out. Ain't know what his kid isn't
<v Speaker 3>the only one out of dad, because Draco and Whale
<v Speaker 3>and aren't.
<v Speaker 5>Going to They're not going to have their mom either.
<v Speaker 3>She went to jail today well, she do complicity to
<v Speaker 3>murder because she knew what she didn't do anything about it.
<v Speaker 6>Isaac and Sabra were charged and booked into jail. Initially
<v Speaker 6>both faced murder charges, but eventually Saber's charges were downgraded.
<v Speaker 17>According to court documents, Isaac Pence has been arrested and
<v Speaker 17>charged with murder. His girlfriend, Sabra Flag, is accused of
<v Speaker 17>leaving the scene with him and lying to detectives about
<v Speaker 17>what happened. She charged with obstructing justice. Pens and Flag
<v Speaker 17>were in court this morning and both pled not guilty,
<v Speaker 17>the judges keeping them both on a one million dollar
<v Speaker 17>bond each.
<v Speaker 6>Saber later accepted a plea deal. She served just six
<v Speaker 6>months in prison for obstructing justice, and as far as
<v Speaker 6>anyone knows, she's now a free woman. As for Isaac,
<v Speaker 6>he took his case to trial and he lost. He
<v Speaker 6>was convicted of murder and a long list of related charges.
<v Speaker 6>His sentence was eighteen years to life. In my humble
<v Speaker 6>and ultimately meaningless opinion, that's far too lenient. Isaac could
<v Speaker 6>be a relatively young man if he walks out of
<v Speaker 6>prison one day, this time as a felon and a
<v Speaker 6>convicted murderer. What happens next time he picks up a drink.
<v Speaker 6>Whose life will he destroy then? And what judge will
<v Speaker 6>completely skirt responsibility for letting him out. That's frustrating is
<v Speaker 6>Isaac's sentences. There is another detail that makes this case
<v Speaker 6>even harder to stomach. Isaac and Charlie didn't even know
<v Speaker 6>each other. They were complete strangers. Charlie died because he
<v Speaker 6>happened to be standing in the wrong place at the
<v Speaker 6>wrong time, at the hands of a violent man that
<v Speaker 6>he had never met. That's how easy it is, folks.
<v Speaker 6>That's how quickly it can all end.
<v Speaker 10>And how did Charlie get involved in this hole?
<v Speaker 13>He was literally just standing right there as far as
<v Speaker 13>I know, he was standing right.
<v Speaker 12>There by the porch.
<v Speaker 10>And so Charlie and him had no beasts prior to this.
<v Speaker 12>You know, I don't even think they talked, Okay, Yeah.
<v Speaker 10>So he just kind of was the unlucky, yeah, victim
<v Speaker 10>in all of us.
<v Speaker 6>Charlie Starter was just twenty two years old. He was
<v Speaker 6>a young father, soon to be husband, and by every account,
<v Speaker 6>a good man who loved his family and friends fiercely.
<v Speaker 6>His future was full of promise, but all of a
<v Speaker 6>sudden it was stolen in an instant when he tried
<v Speaker 6>to do what good people so often do. He stepped in,
<v Speaker 6>hoping to calm a situation before it got worse. Charlie
<v Speaker 6>wasn't reckless, he wasn't looking for a fight. He was
<v Speaker 6>trying to protect and he was trying to help, and
<v Speaker 6>that one moment of courage cost him everything. The unfortunate
<v Speaker 6>truth is that sometimes the safest choice and the smartest
<v Speaker 6>way to protect yourself is to step back when danger
<v Speaker 6>bears its teeth. But this case isn't a warning against
<v Speaker 6>being brave or helpful, of being a good Samaritan. It's
<v Speaker 6>simply a brutal reminder that evil doesn't need a reason
<v Speaker 6>to destroy what's good. And you never know what someone
<v Speaker 6>else is capable of, or how quickly a night of
<v Speaker 6>drinking and partying can spiral into something deadly. Sometimes all
<v Speaker 6>it takes is being in the wrong place, facing the
<v Speaker 6>wrong person at the wrong time. You know that time
<v Speaker 6>when you're done recording an episode of swords Gilts, fresh
<v Speaker 6>off the presses, you're ready to put it out, but
<v Speaker 6>you just know, you just know, deep down inside, that
<v Speaker 6>some fat monstrosity with a septum ring and clown hair
<v Speaker 6>is going to accuse you of being a misogynist simply
<v Speaker 6>because you called a dumb bitch dumb. Well, you see here,
<v Speaker 6>maybe I am a misogynist. Maybe I am. Maybe if
<v Speaker 6>being a feminist means you side with someone just because
<v Speaker 6>they have a pair of tits like you do despite
<v Speaker 6>not having a brain, or I don't know, morals means
<v Speaker 6>what you got to stick together? Girls, just remember this
<v Speaker 6>little lesson we've hammered into your brain over and over
<v Speaker 6>and over again. Beware of the company you keep. If
<v Speaker 6>you side with idiots with loose morals, then maybe that's
<v Speaker 6>exactly who you are too. But who am I other
<v Speaker 6>than just a dumb male kind of like the other
<v Speaker 6>idiot in this story, which I don't side with at
<v Speaker 6>all because I'm not a maleist or whatever they're called.
<v Speaker 6>Because having a brain is more important than having a dick.
<v Speaker 6>See how that works, nah, you from Ohio to