Around the NFC in 48 Minutes 2023 Season Preview

00:00:00
Speaker 1: The Around the NFL podcast is still.

00:00:04
Speaker 2: Working on the theology podcast from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's Around the NFL. I Am Dan hansis Heroes here, Greg rosehal Mark Sessler.

00:00:20
Speaker 3: Part two of our season preview Wednesday.

00:00:26
Speaker 2: Around the AFC in exactly forty eight minutes Today, Around the NFC in exactly forty eight minutes and plus time outs, plus time outs and TV timeouts at the chort least one and then NFL media sanctioned timeouts.

00:00:43
Speaker 3: You're gonna notice when it lands in your feed.

00:00:45
Speaker 2: Wait, why is this one hour and twenty seven minutes not really our fault?

00:00:50
Speaker 3: It's out of our hands.

00:00:52
Speaker 1: Well, there's the top of the show, there's the ads, there's the NFL plush Reid.

00:00:58
Speaker 2: You know who's gonna be super mad live local games? Scott Hanson.

00:01:02
Speaker 4: Well he'd know, or he may find it delightful that it's going on longer than that.

00:01:06
Speaker 2: Scott is a straight shooter, an honest man. And if it's gonna say in forty eight minutes in the title and then it's one twenty seven, we might lose Hanson.

00:01:15
Speaker 1: No, well, no, I think so. I mean to him, what's an hour and a half. That's that's nothing. He also seen.

00:01:21
Speaker 3: I mean in terms of pe breaks.

00:01:22
Speaker 1: I mean, well, just in terms of like a length of a show. He's used to nine ten hours. But he also seems like someone who would listen on two point twenty five speed. I don't know why that is, but I just imagine him on like on a treadmill lifting weights, listening to us on two point twenty five to be like.

00:01:36
Speaker 3: This is a fit test. Did a Hanson test?

00:01:38
Speaker 2: Yeahah, because Hanson famously reached out to me privately asked about these episodes specifically, and we've been constantly talking about him ever since. Will he hit me up with a text about, Hey, guys, here's the speed I listened to. Hey, I was offended by the lengthy episode or I wasn't. Hey, I haven't pee since you we texted four to eight.

00:01:57
Speaker 4: I think I think I would imagine that he peas regularly when not on that show.

00:02:01
Speaker 5: I don't think I never saw that one. That's not a life thing.

00:02:04
Speaker 4: I says, a life thing that's a certain day of the week during a certain part.

00:02:09
Speaker 2: Of the year.

00:02:11
Speaker 3: Doesn't need it. Ben doesn't even have indoor plumbing.

00:02:14
Speaker 5: Not necessary, it's not necessary at all.

00:02:16
Speaker 2: All right, So we're gonna get to the NFC in just a moment, and we're gonna bring in our buddy Shook to help us out as the fourth just like Clayban was a mensch for the AFC. But before we get to that, the NFL world lost a giant, a Hall of Famer Gil Brandt, passed away at the age of ninety one on Thursday. Gil is seen as the godfather of modern scouting. He was the guy before the Jarra era in Dallas that built up America's team, the Roger Staubach Cowboys of the seventies and eighties and kind of seen as a forefather of the scouting combine and the using using data and he was like he kind of introduced, shepherded in the idea of using computers and data mining in a different way.

00:03:13
Speaker 1: It was like the original Draftnick the.

00:03:15
Speaker 2: Original Draftnick Well said Gregi and also in later years of his career was at NFL Media and we can get into it Mark and Greg. But Gil was kind of a major presence around this media group when we started at the company, and we had a lot of back and forth with Gil. So yes, Gil leaves us this week and it's very sad. But what a life for Gilbrandt.

00:03:45
Speaker 4: I mean, because there's the historical Gilbrandt and everything you mentioned. There are some incredible NFL films documentaries about how the Combine came to be, and he's obviously front and center, and like I learned a lot from that because we just got plopped in, you know, a decade plus ago where the combines going full steam and even has grown since. But it was an unusual situation for us because we would at the Combine, like he'd come over to our table, you know, he's essentially his coworkers, and just talk shop. And it's like other people were like, holy crap, Like gil Brandt's walking around like he was a mythical figure to some you know, beat reporters that had been around.

00:04:20
Speaker 5: For a long time.

00:04:21
Speaker 4: But he'd come up to us and just sort of talk shop, and like I always found him delightful. At the Combine, there were two things happening. So in the lead up to the Combine, we'd be in the newsroom here in LA and he'd call up from some pro day you know, Texas Northern Texas Tech or something and just start rattling our job was to take note verbal notes from Gil Brand over the phone and you know, put together a back then a blog post that described what happened at Northern Texas Tech. And he'd just rattle off names and forty times. And I remember being like, I don't want to take this phone call because he's just going he's unhinged with information.

00:04:55
Speaker 5: So it's like someone else will take the call, but.

00:04:57
Speaker 2: Like, well, the problem was and I think an in the early days on the desk for Mark and I, that was a call that you would get. And it would be like if you grew, if you kind of did newspaper reporting like I did part time in early days, you would never want the track and field coach to call in and get that when you were in the bullpen, because your agate would be a forty minute reporting of every event. Gil was so thorough and what happened was and it happened to you too, Mark. But I think in retrospect I look back on it with fondness because I think about where we started the company, where we are now. He would ask for us, He would start calling and ask for his marketer, his Dan there for us to do because he liked our write ups and in general. I always thought he was a very nice guy. Every time I spoke with him, he was very friendly. He would always be at the Super Bowl in the press box. I always remember hours before the game and I'd be looking at Gil. What is Gil doing? And I'd ask Gil, what are you doing? As the guys are warming up on the field. Gil'll be like, I'm tracking the quarterbacks completion percentage in his warm ups. I'm like, that seems insane. But Greg, he a system and that maybe didn't make sense to us. But you know what, way back in the day, what he was doing probably didn't make sense to people, and he became kind of a legend in the industry.

00:06:09
Speaker 1: He like took ownership of the Combine in the draft. I remember I was writing one thing and going to the draft in twenty thirteen, I think early in NFL days, and I had a piece of information about a guy surgery and he calls me up and he explains it all to me so I can correct it and everything. And he felt that way about the Combine. But I think of him not primarily, but like the reason he's in the Hall of Fame is the way that he changed scouting in terms of using computers and using data was massive, but also in how he looked for players and specifically black players. And I think about the Legacy Bawl which is happened in at my old Alba Mada to laying this weekend, Steve Weisch is announcing that and that's the HBCU Legacy Bowl, And like, who did more from a team perspective in bringing in black players from historically black colleges into the NFL then Gil Brandt. Now he was doing it because it was in the Cowboys' best interest, but it was at a time when it just wasn't thought of. And he found so many players that became Hall of Famers late in the draft, middle of the draft using this data. And you really see a lot of it. Bill Belichick said, like when it comes to scouting and the methods he used, Gil would be the first person he would have been put in the Hall of Fame. So it is fascinating because how many other Hall of famers did we like work with closely? That's not something we did.

00:07:29
Speaker 2: So no rest larger than life figure mark. And another thing, if he would call and he'd be looking for us, so you'd have to call him back and you'd call him at his house in Texas and his wife would pick up. Yeah, you'd call it. It's a landline. I think his wife, her name was Sarah. She would pick up. You could even hear it. It was like an old rotary phone. You'd ask for Gill, you could hear it. Kind of put the phone and then you hear hell out and then he just there's your twenty five minute conversation with Gil. So like looking back on it now now knowing what the figure he is, it's cool that we had that interaction.

00:08:05
Speaker 4: Oh I no, I treasure it now because it's like, you know, we haven't seen it. We hadn't seen him in a while, and you know, it's so those memories are are from a different period of time in our career. I one other little thing that he used to do, and this would probably tweak other Beat reporters, but he'd come up to our table, like when Mantiteo was at the combine and it was like an absolute like mob trying to get me, like, hey, Mantitayo is gonna be here in a five minutes. Did you never know where they're gonna ride? They don't tell anyone, so you can tap me on the show, He's like, you go get a front row seat. So I just like go Trallo up to the front row and be like how look, like what are you waiting for him?

00:08:33
Speaker 5: Like I don't know?

00:08:34
Speaker 2: Then like bang mantitaio. That reminds me of the other thing. I mean, he was a figure with major clout at this media group. Like with the NFL draft, he would be the one who you learned from, like who was being invited.

00:08:45
Speaker 3: To the draft, He's pick me there, he would select them.

00:08:48
Speaker 2: And as Gil passed away at ninety one, this is he was in his eighties and he was still kind of, you know, steering things around, and you know he caught. There was some controversy later.

00:08:58
Speaker 1: And I never forgave him for that first day him in that no joke. Everyone thought Aaron Rodgers is going top five.

00:09:03
Speaker 2: There was some controversy later in his life and even in the past year or so about some comments he made on the radio. And I remember thinking myself, like, Gil should have never been even in that spot because he knew he was getting older and slowing down. And I remember thinking he shouldn't have said that.

00:09:18
Speaker 3: But I kind of thought to.

00:09:19
Speaker 2: Myself, shame on them for putting him in that position, and you didn't really hear from him much after that, And I kind of that bums me out a little bit.

00:09:26
Speaker 3: That was like his final, like public spotlight moment.

00:09:29
Speaker 1: He did get to make the Hall of Fame. It was only four years ago to have that moment. I even remember thinking at the time, felt like eighty seven years old to have that sort of moment. Not many people get to have that, especially someone that loves a good way to look at it, That is kind of the legacy. In the PostScript on his career, gil Brandt passes away at the age of ninety one.

00:09:51
Speaker 2: Rest in peace, friend. All Right, with that said, let's bring in a man that we also enjoy, another friend, another friend. It's amazing he could even make time for us, the way he builds that physique. And actually I watched that Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary on Netflix, which is wonderful.

00:10:15
Speaker 4: Just a body double of of Shuck in some some respect. But like you would think, Schwarzenegger, how did he do it? How was he able to be mister Universe and then become the biggest movie star in the world and then become the governor of California.

00:10:26
Speaker 2: It's just drive. It's relentless drive. And that's what's got Nick in the position he is with this media group.

00:10:32
Speaker 3: What's up, Shook?

00:10:33
Speaker 6: I did the push ups, I did the curls, I did pilates. Yeah, it was a great documentary. Pilates, by the way, underrated training method.

00:10:41
Speaker 1: I suggested, did you do.

00:10:43
Speaker 2: This entire episode in your Schwarzenegger impression that that would be fine with me?

00:10:48
Speaker 4: At least do at least one team fully in that voice.

00:10:52
Speaker 2: It's you know now that I'm looking at Chuck and he is a striking presence. Shook is from Cleveland from his home office. Right now. You're a little too young for the old Nintendo game Mike Tyson's punch out right, Shook, Yah, I mean I dabbled, Okay, if Shook ever wanted, And this is for the image for people, because some of these people are like not as much anymore. But before we were doing a lot of videos to be like, I can't I didn't think you guys looked the way you look at all.

00:11:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, which I never took as a compliment.

00:11:19
Speaker 3: No, it never was. But Shook, if you ever wanted to do with a deep pull costume soda Popinske from if you have a certain age, you know what I'm talking about, and and maybe Shook if you ever go to like a Halloween party with a bunch of old's popinske is.

00:11:37
Speaker 2: The way to go.

00:11:39
Speaker 5: I thought you were going to go with that. Who's the hippo guy that you have to punch in the stomach.

00:11:42
Speaker 3: King hippo hippo? Yeah, the man was morbidly obese.

00:11:45
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that that's what Shook looks like.

00:11:46
Speaker 4: I just didn't know what which you know, boxing opponent you were gonna reference.

00:11:49
Speaker 3: Shoo cutting, I mean that shook king hippo.

00:11:52
Speaker 2: You had to know when he lifted up the arm, you think you just go stomach right, left and then he doesn't get up.

00:11:58
Speaker 1: Do you know Sodake's original name in the arcade version, before they had to he was a Rusky pc it up. His name was called the vodka Drunkinski.

00:12:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go.

00:12:08
Speaker 5: What is it not pc to suggest that Russians.

00:12:11
Speaker 1: Like well, and I guess they also just didn't want kids asking the question of what does that mean?

00:12:16
Speaker 2: Right?

00:12:17
Speaker 3: It does?

00:12:17
Speaker 2: As someone with Irish heritage, I always find it strange that it's it's okay to like talk about Irish people love to drink in their drunks. But then Soda Pepinske has to get his name changed, right, you know, well, it doesn't feel right, It doesn't feel fair. Anyways, next episode, we'll see you Monday.

00:12:36
Speaker 6: I had nothing further to that.

00:12:39
Speaker 2: You've said it all, all right, let's get into it real sea around the NFC in exactly forty eight minutes. We start with the defending conference champion Philadelphia Eagles and Mark Sessler.

00:12:54
Speaker 4: All right, nobody has repeated as NFC East winners in twenty years. Okay, But ever since he escaped that shed to win his power struggle with Chip Kelly, Howie Roseman has operated as a five foot eight magic user.

00:13:06
Speaker 5: The Eagles always find a way.

00:13:08
Speaker 4: They're offensive and defensive lines or this defense had seventy sacks last season. They're one of two teams to rank top six and both offensive and defensive EPA per play. When most top heavy teams coming off a Super Bowl would have lost guys like Darius Slay, James Bradbury, Fletcher Cox, they kept them all and stole Jalen Carter in the draft. Sam Monson at PFF noted that the entire Eagles backfield DeAndre Swift, Kenneth Gainwell, Rashad Penny, and Boston Scott costs less than the Jets paid Dalvin Cook. No other team in the NFC operates with such cunning who or what stops them?

00:13:44
Speaker 1: Just like bad luck? I mean, because they did win a lot of close games. Bill Barnwell brought that up on the over Under podcast that we did injuries. They were a healthy team. Although one of the reasons I'm so confident in them and I agree with everything you say.

00:13:57
Speaker 3: I love them.

00:13:57
Speaker 1: I think their weaknesses are not that important golf ball linebacker, maybe secondary depth. Their backups are great, and I think the thing that I'm most excited about is can the guys in their prime continue to get better? Can aj Brown actually go up another level? Can DeVante Smith continue to improve? Is this Dallas Goddards All Pro year? Can Jalen Hurts show that he's like the Super Bowl Jalen Hurts like that is all possible? That they get better on offense and maybe that makes up for a little defensive decline.

00:14:23
Speaker 6: Shookie, I mean, the one thing I worry about last year down the stretch, I know they had injuries, Jalen Hurts miss some games, but I worried at the time did they peak too early? And then they ran through most of the playoffs and got a little bit of luck in the NFC title game. Can you sustain that?

00:14:37
Speaker 2: Now?

00:14:38
Speaker 6: It's great that they draft well, and it's great that the majority of their key players are back, but I get that sophomore slump five. I worry about the sophomore slump.

00:14:46
Speaker 2: Five.

00:14:46
Speaker 6: I'm not necessarily saying that they're gonna slump, but it's hard to get back there. It's very difficult, and this is a very strong team. I feel fairly confident, but I back of my mind worrying about that slump is going to hit them.

00:14:57
Speaker 2: This year, it felt like such a special season for the and it was, and as we talked about, you kind of get the feeling of Jalen Hurts gets that ball back in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. They probably are the defending champions right now. Maybe that works in their favor and against the idea of a sophomore slump. Shook that they didn't get to the mountaintop. They're still hungry and angry how that game turned out, but I'm with you, guys. I feel like and credit to Howie Roseman escaped the Pocono's and has built this studley roster and they are locked and loaded and ready to go, and short of a Jalen Hurts injury, it's hard to imagine any team, like picking any team with more confidence to win twelve games in this conference.

00:15:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, and people point to like two new coordinators, Sean de sci who A lot of people say this guy is a total m effort behind the scenes, so a great gotta egos.

00:15:42
Speaker 1: Fans are happy they don't have Jonathan Geint.

00:15:44
Speaker 5: I think so too.

00:15:44
Speaker 4: But Brian Johnson, they're QB coach who's now the OC has known Jalen Hurts since he was a youth, So I don't think this transition is a problem.

00:15:54
Speaker 3: He called timeouts earlier.

00:15:56
Speaker 2: Wow, I got it.

00:15:57
Speaker 3: I gotta call it early.

00:15:58
Speaker 5: Time did this yesterday.

00:16:01
Speaker 2: I think it's important because you who did you just refer to as an mfor Sean de Saie, I think it's important.

00:16:09
Speaker 3: Distinction.

00:16:10
Speaker 4: Do you mean like a bad I think he's like a like a guy's guy, and he like he commands like a bad M.

00:16:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, good, A good way if you just.

00:16:16
Speaker 3: Call someone an mfort it's almost like the worst insult.

00:16:19
Speaker 5: This is a good time out to clarify the language.

00:16:22
Speaker 3: But maybe you mean he's a bad like a terrible guy.

00:16:24
Speaker 5: I just heard that he is talented and commands.

00:16:27
Speaker 4: He's a bad Yeah, that it's not like a step down that it's like this guy is going to come in and the Eagles who had seventy sacks a year ago, who knows what the sky what the limit is of it?

00:16:36
Speaker 3: You know why I didn't want to leave our audience at all confused with what you were saying.

00:16:41
Speaker 1: Mother, I forget who it is. Is it McCarthy like someone loves taking like an early first quarter timeout? It's just like a trademark. That's dance thing.

00:16:49
Speaker 3: Now, that's me Greg. The Dallas Cowboys, all right.

00:16:53
Speaker 1: I was putting together the NFL dot Com predictions and I struggled with, well, maybe the Cowboys are that team that doesn't make it back to the playoffs, just thinking of their history of ups and downs and not being consistent. And then and then I was like I kind of slammed myself out of it and thought, on paper, this is their best team since twenty sixteen, and maybe better, maybe the best defense in the NFL. It's not just Parsons and Lawrence. They're deep at edge rusher in terms of their backups like Sam Williams. I love their safety group. I love what they did add in Gilmour like, I don't know what this team's problem is other than the Dallas Cowboys. It's kind of crazy that I was even thinking to keep them out of the playoffs, and yet they are the Dallas Cowboys, so that feels like it's still somehow possible with this schedule. I don't I don't know what to do with this team. They look so good on paper.

00:17:45
Speaker 6: I'll tell you what a thing that that disappoints is Dak Prescott. You can look at the interception total from last year and talk about that, but really I think there is a little bit of riding on the wall or maybe just an underlying theme there with the whole acquisition of Trey Lance. They're gonna deny that, They're gonna you know, it doesn't matter what they informed Dak or not. I think that the confidence in him is a little bit rattled from last year. I go back to the one game they lost to Jacksonville late in the season where I was like, there's their weakness, there is their fatal flaw, and did that come back to bite them in the playoffs. Not necessarily, but if you're talking about getting to a super Bowl, you got to have consistent play, turnover free play from your quarterback. They just didn't get that last year. And at this point, it feels like, you know, Dak's debut season, which he's set the league on fire, feels pretty far away, even if they are super talented.

00:18:28
Speaker 4: And I would say also when he has to come out and say, you know, I'm gonna only throw this many interceptions, I don't like the idea of that, you know, counting that stat as you're going along and it reducing your desire to make fiery throws. That if you've become too conservative. And I also wonder with Mike McCarthy calling plays, did they get more conservative? I mean I thought that Kellen Moore was a tend to be quite aggressive and Mike McCarthy clock management issues were always an issue in Green Bay.

00:18:54
Speaker 2: So I says positive or not well depends. I mean, it was more behind the is the way these two seasons ended. So who knows, But like I don't know. I thought you made a good point the other day, Mark that there does seem to be a heaviness around Prescott and a weariness almost like it's toughy in the Dallas Cowboys quarterback, especially when the years start to pile up and you haven't done anything substantial as a team. I think it's a big year for Dak and I do think Greg that as much as like everyone just said, Okay, they got Brandon cook so they addressed that, the missing playmaker. That's the only thing. I like this team a lot, and I think they're going to give the Eagles a real run for their money potentially. But I don't know if Cooks was the upgrade that made me feel like, Okay, they've addressed that.

00:19:36
Speaker 1: Now he's looked good. But it's partly Jalen Tolbert look good in camp, like Gallup is another year who we talked to on the podcast away from surgery. I just think they have answers at almost every position on the depth chart. Running back worries me a little bit, but if that's your biggest worry and you still have Tony Pollard, it's not that bad.

00:19:56
Speaker 2: The New York Giants, it was impossible even for Greg not to have some begrudging respect for what the Giants pulled off. The g Men finished the DUMA and finished the regular season with a negative point differential negative DVOA, but they still had a winning record.

00:20:19
Speaker 3: They claimed a wildcard.

00:20:20
Speaker 2: Spot, they took out the paper Tiger Vikings in the first round of the playoffs, and then reality a bit hard with the Eagles.

00:20:28
Speaker 3: But you know that happens even with that slice of humble pie.

00:20:31
Speaker 2: The season was a success and few teams were coached up as well as New York A year ago. Day Ball and DC winker back Daniel Jones signed long term. Darren Waller joined Sakwe Barkley. It's a nice little NBA jam style one two punch. The consensus theory here is that the regression monster will bite hard. Greg's about to say that, But if Dable and company are building something here, is it possible the Giants get better that that was a stepping stone year and they are in the mix once more.

00:21:00
Speaker 1: I think they could be better in the record wouldn't be better just because the division. I think that's the same with the Eagles too, and the Cowboys just because of the schedule. I am torn because I think the coaching staff is really good and on paper, I think they are a better roster you're seeing now in year two under Joe Shane some development. I am curious they're starting two rookie corners on the outside. Deonda Banks first round pick not a surprise there, Trey Hawkins sixth round pick, who they just love. Those are your starting players in a defense that puts a lot on their cornerbacks.

00:21:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the back seven on defense is a bit of a concern. I here's the thing though, like how can they be better? Well, the reports on jail At Hyatt are have been great, that he's been lighting up camp like there's a different there's multiple there's multiverses you could have gotten with Darren Waller, and all the reporting on him is that he and Daniel Jones have been fantastic together and Waller looks like the old Waller, And I think it comes down to, like you know, they were they were trying to focus on Daniel Jones the pass or more at the end of last season and they still is that running ability in that floor, but do you get that Brian Dable Josh Allen type of bump where you get more touchdowns and you keep the ball safe, which has not been true of Daniel Jones before last season. If he improves, I think this team is a playoff team. I picked him as a wild card team.

00:22:16
Speaker 2: Spoiler spoiler for who.

00:22:20
Speaker 1: For the people that are waiting for that Monday season predictions, I.

00:22:24
Speaker 3: Mean the people who listen to the show for Nick.

00:22:27
Speaker 5: All right, well, guys, that's too Mark.

00:22:30
Speaker 6: All right, Well, I'm putting myself in line for a dart here, and that's fine. But I feel like Johnny Raincloud in this in this episode so far.

00:22:36
Speaker 1: But Cleveland, this is gonna test eric'ssonic darts, right, I just wasted ten seconds.

00:22:43
Speaker 6: Basically, I'm gonna tell you this. I agree with everything you guys just said. I think you have a great coaching staff or roster on paper is better. They should be better than they were last year. And yet for some reason, I just feel like they're not going to be any better and could be slightly worse. And it all comes down to Daniel Jones. Maybe in a couple of years you regret paying him. It's just I'm not inspired by his play, even though they figured out how to kind of get more out of him.

00:23:02
Speaker 2: Than any other staff did time out?

00:23:05
Speaker 5: What talk about clock management?

00:23:08
Speaker 2: It happens, so it happens sometimes.

00:23:11
Speaker 5: Is anyone else allowed to call it time out?

00:23:13
Speaker 1: By the way, right, But you have to have no when it got to do he turned it into a TV timeout which never even had exactly real or I'm not giving you this.

00:23:22
Speaker 3: What is there an injury on the field or something, that's the timeout?

00:23:25
Speaker 2: We get three and at the end of each division is a quarter break, there's a halftime break.

00:23:30
Speaker 3: It's just these things you.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: Have to know, all right, what is this for? What do you need it for?

00:23:34
Speaker 3: Finally, now I forgotten, shook. I forgot because you guys don't let me focus.

00:23:42
Speaker 1: All right, I'll let you focus. Will I say something? It is a good sign if we're going to keep talking giants that they were able to cut Jamison Crowder and Cole Beasley out of camp. That actually felt to me like, ooh, that's progress. Your receiver room actually stayed healthy enough. Your young players are looking good enough that you didn't have to keep the progress stoppers Cole Beasley and Jamison Crowder were at this point a year ago, those guys would have made the team.

00:24:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:24:07
Speaker 2: The point I was gonna make was that Daniel Jones one of the big story. And this is an example of how great the coaching was for the Giants last year. And I Thinkdable got Coach of the Year. He deserved it, he did right.

00:24:17
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, fumbling was a thank you.

00:24:21
Speaker 2: Bumbling was a major issue for Jones in his for initial three years in the league.

00:24:26
Speaker 3: They changed the way they used him to protect him just like Josh Allen struggled initially and then Brian da will figure that out, and they said, all right, if the first reason not there, get out of the pocket, scramble and use your legs, pick up first downs that way, and then you know when the pressure's coming, you're not gonna hit the blindside hits as much. All that was just so well done.

00:24:46
Speaker 2: And my final point, I guess was just shook coaching matters and the jump from Judge to Dable, the idea that they can continue to build something because they might have unlocked Jones.

00:24:59
Speaker 6: We'll see perhaps or that bump you get from good coaching was what got them to where they were last year. And now it's about personnel. And that's why I'm not confident. It's just the fact that he boosted them to that point.

00:25:12
Speaker 2: They totally should never give you guys. But I just think someone has to say because it's such a kind of boiled in take now to everyone's preseason conversation with the Giants are not rolled.

00:25:22
Speaker 1: Well, he's got him in the playoffs, Jody Batista. I just who wrote the great bit of Gil Brandt on the site, She's got the Giants in the playoffs. I heard tweet that too, See Giants. So two people that believe they give me twenty eighteen bills vibes. If you remember Joe Shane who was there in Buffalo, they made the playoffs that first year with Tyrod Taylor. They set the foundation. They had Josh Allen. The next year they actually almost seemed better, but they didn't make the playoffs. They were under five hundred.

00:25:48
Speaker 3: The Washington commander is Nick Shook.

00:25:51
Speaker 6: Ron Rivera has hitched his wagon despite my concerns about a month ago, to a second year quarterback with only one start under his belt. So we commenced to prove it year where Sam Halle has to prove he deserved the responsibility of being QB one. Chase Young, who played in just twelve games in the last two seasons combined, has to prove that he can stay healthy enough to be worth paying or even pursuing next year, and right now he's dealing with a stinger. In fact, Ron Rivera today said, I have no idea what the doctor is going to do, but I do know right now that he's told him that he can continue to progress and get himself ready to go. So he may not even be ready for week one at this point. And speaking of Ron Rivera, he has to prove to new ownership, but he's still fit for the job. Hell, the franchise might even change its nickname again. Everything's up in the air right now. So I asked this question, is this the start of a beautiful new era in Washington or the final chapter of what could be Washington's great prelude the Ladder?

00:26:46
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think Ron Rivera's in a tough spot.

00:26:48
Speaker 4: And one of the reasons he's in a tough spot is that the Commanders have had twelve starting quarterbacks since twenty eighteen. I mean twelve different passers. Like, that's how you don't make progress. They've not found a guy. I think though, if you have Sam Howell and he ends up being as spicy as you know, hints and suggestions say he might be that can change everything. I mean, I'm not sure that saves Ron Rivera's job though. It kind of feels like when Doug Collins got fired by the Bulls because they knew they had this star in Michael Jordan and you get someone real in there to coach him up.

00:27:19
Speaker 5: Well, different sports though very different, but you.

00:27:21
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, it's the Jordan in this scenario. Sam Howell, Well, we don't know speak. I don't think not Michael Jordan. I'm not making that comparison.

00:27:29
Speaker 2: Ron spoke with Bert Breer about the Week eighteen hal game, and here is the Ronaverta quote. I kept saying, if I would have known this, I would have played him sooner. When you only have so much time to show it, it's hard. I keep thinking, God, But after the game, everything told me this kid. Give him the opportunity to see what he does with it. Well, you wait until week eighteen.

00:27:48
Speaker 5: But that's what bugs me.

00:27:49
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, let's let's see if Rivera's eyes are right. But that seems taking too much out of a one game at the end of a season.

00:27:57
Speaker 1: I think I think he looked good in the priests. I think it makes sense to give him a shot and Sirian sure where they were. But to me, it's not about him. It's about this defensive line. This is year four for Ron Rivera. This defensive line has a chance not just to be the best defensive line in the league, but to be a defensive line that like Commandos fans remember forever. The first year post Snyder, we have Montes sweat who, to me, his power, his first step. He's one of the most underrated players in the league. To Ron Payin, a great player coming off a franchise tag his best season. Jonathan Tate Allen a literal All Pro. And Chase Young, the fourth best player on their defensive line, was the number two overall pick and maybe now he's healthy again. Like that group alone can be special, can make them worth watching. And I'm pretty high on them. We'll have to tell you how high on the next show if they get rid of Young. At some point Young and Sweaty is gone.

00:28:54
Speaker 3: Oh he got it in.

00:28:55
Speaker 5: I thought, that is absurd. I got it in by the buzzer.

00:29:00
Speaker 1: Let's go back then, you gonna let him talk back to you like that?

00:29:02
Speaker 2: That's what happens with the producers.

00:29:04
Speaker 3: They shoot, they pull the trigger once and then they can't stop.

00:29:09
Speaker 1: I think we need back.

00:29:09
Speaker 5: I can look at the clock like the tape on that one.

00:29:11
Speaker 2: I mean, pay attention America. That was a little social commentary from the old Seussir. All right, that was the NFC East.

00:29:24
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:29:24
Speaker 3: Let's now move to the NFC North. Right back to you next shock with the Vikings.

00:29:29
Speaker 6: All right, well, Minnesota. You called them a paper tagger earlier, and I agree because last year's surprise certainly isn't getting very much love this time around. Rightfully so. But it's also hard to love a team with so many replacements. Eric Kendricks is gone, Zadarius Smith get out of here, Adam Feeling go enjoy the syboard because you ain't retiring in Minnesota. Dalvin Cook probably the most, the highest profile of them all, Haye, life sounds like a Christopher Cross song from the eighties when you get cut between Minnesota and New York City, WA. He liked the bright lights of the Big Apple because you ain't see in the northern vits anymore. My friend thirteen wins last year, thirty first in total defense. There's a problem something here. Doesn't match up out goes ed Donna tell In Brian Flores, is his mastery of defense enough to propel them keep them really afloat. I think after losing so many key veterans on both sides of the ball, the offense will be okay even without Dalvin Cook. He still got Justin Jefferson, TJ. Hockinson just got paid. But I just feel like this team, we knew it wasn't what.

00:30:27
Speaker 1: Was the bad move though there. I loved all of those moves. I think that was what a smart team does is get rid of every single one of those players you just mentioned. Yeah, but they all sounds positive.

00:30:37
Speaker 6: It doesn't necessarily mean you win game.

00:30:39
Speaker 1: But who was good out of that group that like at their current salary? Maybe Cook, maybe that's it, but he was making thirteen million dollars.

00:30:45
Speaker 2: Dookaris.

00:30:48
Speaker 5: I like Darius Smith's a good player.

00:30:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think the Vikings are clearly they're building something different, and yet this is sort of like this was the worst defense a year ago. Obviously there's not a lot of evidence will be much better. They still Harrison Smith, Byron Murphy can play. I think the thing is that Flora is though uniformly. Everyone has talked about how much they love his system, how much they love playing for him. So if you can keep them around after this year and you get into that second part of the rebuild, I kind of like that from Minnesota a lot.

00:31:14
Speaker 5: I think Brian Flores should be a head coach.

00:31:15
Speaker 2: I think they were smart, and the salary cap played a role in this too, but I think they were smart not to get sucked in by what happened last year. Thirteen wins, You'll never see anything like that.

00:31:24
Speaker 4: Well, eleven and zero in one score games, Yeah, that's that is about as an anomaly show.

00:31:28
Speaker 2: They're turning things over, figuring things out, letting Kirk Cousins play out his contract.

00:31:32
Speaker 3: I think these were all wise moves.

00:31:34
Speaker 2: Why am I still though, kind of feeling in this division they're laying in the weeds.

00:31:39
Speaker 3: Yes, they could be in first place at the end of November.

00:31:42
Speaker 1: I just don't rule them out because I love the Jordan Addison pick. I think that offensively they could be pretty dynamic and defensively a lot of times it's less about just pure talent and more about energy and coaching, and Flor's to me, is the perfect coach for an under talented D. There's different coaches. It's like you want with talented players, like he can scheme up a bad group to be decent. I don't know if like he's the guy you want, like doing all this crazy stuff with the most talented group, But I think he could do a lot with this one. I'm with you, young young secondary. Though the worst team it was last.

00:32:17
Speaker 5: Year, it's not like they're how they can't be that.

00:32:20
Speaker 3: Lars is there, that's good, and they have justin Jefferson.

00:32:23
Speaker 2: He'll win three games with them alone.

00:32:29
Speaker 3: Detroit Lions.

00:32:29
Speaker 2: I love teams that enjoy a successful building block season and then they retain their brain trust. The Giants sime thing. The Lions won eight of their last ten games, became the talk of the league, and they returned this year with Dan Campbell at head coach Ben Johnson and OC Aaron Glenn running the d.

00:32:46
Speaker 3: The draft was funky.

00:32:47
Speaker 2: Jamiir Gibbs with twelfth twelfth overall seen as a reach middle linebacker Jack Campbell at eighteen was seen a slightly deranged and a clear Dan Campbell special, but other less heralded moves were made. They overhauled the secondary that was necessary for a d that improved as last year went along, but still needed work offseason. Hype and the Detroit Lions don't go together, but the logic here checks out that projects them as the best team in the NFC North, the most complete team ready to take that leap and get to the playoffs. So why can't I see it?

00:33:19
Speaker 3: I could see it here.

00:33:20
Speaker 5: I don't know.

00:33:20
Speaker 4: I think, like, I think it's sort of natural to when we talk about these teams for so long in the offseason that like you're on board and then suddenly you're like, I might be flipping her here into the other thing. And it's like you could point to Jared Goff and say, would there be a regression? But here's the thing I think they have that they carried over from last year. A really mauling, talented offensive line, so bang, that's nine or ten wins right there in my book.

00:33:42
Speaker 5: And a really good pass rush.

00:33:44
Speaker 4: And I think you've got these this talent upfront on both sides that kind of reminds me of the Eagles. I just think they're a team that can go beat people up and shore over some of their weaknesses.

00:33:53
Speaker 1: I love what they did defensively, and I think that's what stops the regression is. Yeah, I don't expect their offense to be as you're not gonna get as good as season out of golf. Your number two receiver is who exactly? I mean, it's it's like Josh Josh Reynolds. Eventually it's James and Williams maybe, but I mean I don't necessarily that's.

00:34:12
Speaker 2: How they'll view him, I think, but whether he can play the guitar.

00:34:16
Speaker 1: But I think in the secondary, adding CJ. Gardner, Johnson, Emanuel Moseley is going to be back there. Brian Branch, I really think they could improve from one of the worst defenses shook to an asset to a better than average defense and then you're then you're cooking with gas. But to me, this division's wide open. It's nice to have a division that's wide open. I don't feel like many divisions are like that. Anyone could win this division.

00:34:36
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that this is a team that's not going to need the offense to carry it so much this season. It's going to be a team that is more balanced, is going to take a bit of a step back offensively, just because you're not going to replicate that year by year with Jared Goff, who we know what his ceiling is. But I totally agree with what you said about the secondary. I think it's improved. And honestly, everybody crapped all over the first round picks, and even Sam Laporta that pick too. If come on, he caught some strays too, because he's an Iowa guy. You know whatever, Jack Campbell, if that's your guy that could be your guy for ten years at middle linebacker, and if that helps your defense get better along with the additions you made in the secondary, then go do it. You knew that was your weakness. Go get the guy that you think will make you better. I honestly, you know, we've talked about this team so much, and I agree that we're tired of it. We want to pick somebody else and go away from Chalk because the Lions should not be chalk, right, But I'm sticking with them. I think they're going to be solid.

00:35:28
Speaker 4: I do worry about them a little bit a week from now against that Chiefs team and what happens if they don't, if they get slaughtered.

00:35:35
Speaker 3: I'm taking the dart third year for Dan Campbell.

00:35:38
Speaker 1: We have a rule totally.

00:35:40
Speaker 2: I respect well Mark came in with the Chiefs are a hard team to beat.

00:35:44
Speaker 3: Take and that was my Dan Campbell opening. He took my opening.

00:35:50
Speaker 4: I'm we're saying psychologically, if they were if they were dissembled on national television in the kickoff opener, like that's I wonder what happens to that kind of team from there. They've not been in this place.

00:36:00
Speaker 3: We think they're mentally tough, though.

00:36:03
Speaker 4: I don't question their mental toughness at this point, but if they were to lose forty five, they're not going to They're gonna.

00:36:08
Speaker 1: Mark like grudgingly brought through that like six game winning streak at the end of line.

00:36:13
Speaker 5: No, it was because it's like.

00:36:14
Speaker 4: Hits on this show when you're when you're amped up to like through the ceiling, it's like what am I gonna just sit here and just absorb it, Like there's nothing you can do to be more energetic than Greg about the Lions all last season.

00:36:25
Speaker 5: So it's like, I.

00:36:27
Speaker 1: Also be you bury them in the middle of the season, so they were like a bad pick essentially, so that you know they came back.

00:36:32
Speaker 5: I thought they were fine. I enjoyed the experience as much as I chose.

00:36:35
Speaker 3: To Dan Campbell. This is his third year.

00:36:38
Speaker 2: If we if we subscribe to the thing that coaches don't get a fourth year if they don't make the PLAYFFS first thre years.

00:36:42
Speaker 3: Is he an outlier?

00:36:43
Speaker 2: I don't know.

00:36:44
Speaker 3: There is pressure, though.

00:36:45
Speaker 2: This will be seen as a disappointment if they don't make it. Apologies to the academy breaking the rules. Give me a trick, give me right in the face.

00:36:55
Speaker 3: Cheek, taking it right out of my cheek. The Green Bay Packers, Greg.

00:37:05
Speaker 1: I'm excited about this team. I don't know what's going to happen in this division. I think they had one of the best camps of any team in the NFL. The Green Bay Packers Bactiari's healthy, Jenkins's there. That might be the best left side of an offensive line in the league. The offensive line in general looks fantastic. I think they gave up one quarterback hit in three preseason games. I know it's a preseason. I think Jordan Love checked all the boxes. I think the two rookies that are going to play a lot, Musgrave and Jade Reid had nice camps and checked some boxes. I hate that they didn't make a change of defensive coordinator, but there is a lot of talent on the defense side. I just think they had a really perfect camp, and I do think there's a little bit of post Aaron Rodgers, Matt Lafleur, Jordan Love. Let's show them what we can do without the old gunslinger around.

00:37:53
Speaker 4: I'm so with you because I think as much as we have on a national stage, seen a transform Aaron Rodgers in terms of added happiness, contentment like the Packers, and I think Packers fans should embrace this completely new, mysterious leg of the journey. I mean, you're kind of freed from the expectations that were there with far. I think they have Rogers, but I think that's something about them is I feel I'm refreshed. I'm more excited about this division and this team in a long time because I think actually Love is going to succeed. I mean, it's like, I don't think it's a bad thing for some of these quarterbacks to sit and learn for a couple of years. I know that's no now you to throw him out there in Week one as a rookie, but it's like he may have benefited from being behind Aaron Rodgers mentally for a.

00:38:33
Speaker 2: Com he needs some help. I mean, Christian Watson really balled out as the season went along, so I feel good about him as a developing star. Romeo of Dobbs, you're gonna want him to take that next step. I think that's certainly possible. You have Luke Musgrave there. But again, I just can't get I have too much recent history. I can't get excited about rookie tight Ends. I just can't. But maybe he develops quickly. I like the idea of the theory of it that Matt Lafleur and Jordan Love. They're putting their heads together. Let's let's stick it to the football cognates Anti.

00:39:08
Speaker 5: With a clock.

00:39:09
Speaker 2: That pause is even worse. But you have to have the goods if they don't know yet. We don't know what Lafleur is like without Aaron Rodgers, and we don't know who Jordan Love is yet.

00:39:17
Speaker 1: Sure, but I think the line in the running game shook. Maybe it'll make the quarterback look better.

00:39:23
Speaker 6: Yeah, although I thought it was strange that they, you know, kick the tires on Jonathan Taylor. That was kind of interesting considering who they have it running back. But that's neither here nor there. What's more important to me is I got that feel good vibe through the TV on a preseason game, and usually preseason games are sleepy. It's just all right, we're gonna come out and see the starters for a couple series and then it's just gonna kind of peter out to the end. It was not the case in Green Bay. The young kids are now in charge. They've taken over this team. Do I think Jordan Love's gonna go be an all pro?

00:39:50
Speaker 3: No?

00:39:50
Speaker 6: But do I think that the release of the pressure with the departure of Aaron Rodgers can kind of invigorate this team that has a talented defense, It has a good running game, that has a good offensive line. Yeah, the young kids at receiver, you look like they're starting starting to take the next step with Jordan Love. I like this team, sneaky good team.

00:40:06
Speaker 3: Did you know the Cults in exchange for Jonathan Taylor asked for lambeau Field and the blood of the firstborn children of Milwaukee. That was what the trade offer was.

00:40:19
Speaker 4: I did not, But what what are they like the rules and regulations of this show.

00:40:23
Speaker 1: I mean, the man who started show business the two day ex let's respect, let's respect the trend very solemnly, you said that, and then it overrode.

00:40:35
Speaker 3: It was a good bit, so I had to get it out and I'm taking.

00:40:37
Speaker 2: The l And you guys are so stuck in your ways with your rules that you couldn't see a good bit when I was staring right in the face.

00:40:45
Speaker 1: Are you the first born? No one was questioning the bit. We all liked the bit. We just have respect for the game. We all like the bit. I'm not following any rules in great bit. I'm just gonna keep talking as much as I want to. I mean, Milwaukee is are from Green Bay. They're sort of in there, like a little bit of a rivalry. Hey, we're not Milwaukee.

00:41:04
Speaker 2: Oh far is Milwaukee from green Well?

00:41:08
Speaker 5: They used to play in Milwaukee like they used to play split home games.

00:41:13
Speaker 3: I have no ideas.

00:41:14
Speaker 1: It's pretty far.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: It's a major metro area. It's it's the closest major metro area from Green Bay, which is kind of a sleepy.

00:41:23
Speaker 3: Area of Wisconsin.

00:41:24
Speaker 5: You could still be still be a packer stockholder down there.

00:41:27
Speaker 2: Like I could have said the first born children of Appleton. Yeah, which is much closer but doesn't hit as hard as a bit Milwaukee's nice.

00:41:35
Speaker 4: Now you nail the bit not I don't think anyone's questioning that aspect of it.

00:41:38
Speaker 3: Dan one of the.

00:41:39
Speaker 1: Bits of the year.

00:41:42
Speaker 3: In Cleveland, Chicago, the Bear is mark. All Right.

00:41:48
Speaker 4: We have someone here at NFL Media, Michelle Magic. She is in our research department and one of the hosts of the ball Blast podcast, and she was the only one of all of NFL media who picked Matt Eberflus, who's just been a for those verbally taken down all offseason, to win Coach of the Year.

00:42:05
Speaker 5: And here's why. Let's hear from.

00:42:07
Speaker 7: Her now that he finally has a real wide receiver one in Dj Moore. Bears quarterback Justin Fields is ready to take that Jalen hurts us third year leap this year, and opposing defenses have already struggled to stop the bears dominant rushing attack, and now they're also going to have to worry about their passing game.

00:42:24
Speaker 6: That is brutal for them. But most importantly, they play in the.

00:42:28
Speaker 7: Very weak NFC where a wildcard spot is a very easy path with the Bears if they can put it all together, and I'm predicting just that, I think the Bear sneak into the playoffs this season, and if head coach Matt Eberflus can transform the worst team in the NFL last season to a playoff team in just one offseason, he is going to be a top candidate for Coach of the Year, no doubt in twenty twenty three.

00:42:52
Speaker 5: All Right, does it check out?

00:42:55
Speaker 2: If you speak with passion on a topic, you will sell me most of the time. Yeah, could be easily misled by a charismatic leader, and I think we just saw them.

00:43:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I liked you giving up your time. Also, there's a history. It's less work for me. Love somewhat underwhelming Bears coaches winning Coach of the Year Matt Naggi ever recent one, Dick durn two time winner. I believe am I making that up? At least won once. Lovey Smith, who is a better coach, but he won Coach of the Year too. It's a fine tradition.

00:43:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I understand the idea there, because the because they're so down bad last year, that helps relentlessly losing that If Fields makes a leap and these additions prop up the roster, they're gonna end up doubling their win total, maybe tripling their win total, and that's how Coach of the Year awards are handed out.

00:43:42
Speaker 1: I have my doubts about the Bears, but I think if you're trying to see what Eberflus and Polls are doing, it's in the secondary. I think that's the one area of the team that has a chance to be special other than justin Field's running. You know, they drafted Brisker and Gordon last year. Gordon's in the slot, Brisker was pretty spicy. Tyreek Stevenson was a guy that drafted this year, and then they still have Jalen Johnson in a free agent year, they still have Eddie Jackson. Like that, to me shook a sort of their vision is in that secondary. That's Ryan Poles's guys. Like if they have a special secondary, the defense can get a lot better.

00:44:12
Speaker 6: That's that's the part of the team I love the most. And I was I raised an eyebrow when Yanni kin Goakway signed with them, because I was like, don't you want to go play for a team that's that you said would be a contender. This is not a team that is necessarily that on paper. But I love that back end of the defense. I think it can be a lot better than it was last year. I'm not going to put them the playoffs. I'm not going to give Matt Eberflus to Coach the Year. What I am going to say is that I think we were just introduced to the cult of Mark Sessler. Now they say best coast, West Coast, best coast. I think best coast is Sess Coast. You know, let's just gather it all around right now. It doesn't have to be senter on the Bears. But you want to make that argument for any team or any belief, I'll probably follow you right in line. As for the Bears gonna be better, but the bar was low.

00:44:52
Speaker 3: What an interesting direction there.

00:44:54
Speaker 4: I well, it's Brett Zieros. So I guess I'll just keep talking because that's what we do in the show. Apparently get him drank your ace. It hit me right in the butt in the buttocks.

00:45:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Coach of the Year, Executive of the Year. Stuff. Gotta be careful now it's half time.

00:45:12
Speaker 5: What do you not care?

00:45:13
Speaker 3: Well?

00:45:13
Speaker 2: Just like, remember that Mike mccagnin once was the pro Foball Writers Association Executive the Year. That's the same guy that passed on Patrick Mahomes because he had Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg already on the roster's developmental quarterbacks sound move. Sometimes you get sucked in by one year, and I.

00:45:32
Speaker 4: Think it's I want to see a study on these guys, because a lot of times you win Coach of the Year because your roster was, you know, a one win outfit. Then you win nine and everyone's excited, but then you you know, you go back down and it's like when you win these awards, I think the year after, it's almost like an s I jinx. Like a lot of times they kind of crater or vanish and to your point, like mccagnin, like that couldn't have been a more disastrous, Like you know, he's celebrating too hard off his little trophy.

00:45:55
Speaker 1: Has Dickon, by the way, only one one coach because he had only one winning season out of five.

00:46:02
Speaker 2: Before we take a break, Greg, I know you do another podcast with a successful comedian, but just want to add a little more context on.

00:46:10
Speaker 1: Jessel Nick and Rosenthal Vandy project. Yeah, people should check that out.

00:46:13
Speaker 2: Yes, the bit from earlier, the context there was that the Colts are asking for a lot in these Jonathan Taylor faux trade talks. So me, I was me coming off the top rope and saying, send lambeau Field and the firstborn.

00:46:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.

00:46:33
Speaker 2: See it's all the payoff of it, Yes, but the football context is so important.

00:46:38
Speaker 1: That's one of the most important things about jokes. Are explaining him ten minutes later, I thought you needed I mean, I didn't need it. We all got the joke. It was a great it was a great joke, but ground so I understand that we all analysis, we all we all got it. And and I think I think it was trenchant. I think the Colts are up to no good with these asking.

00:46:58
Speaker 2: I think sometimes in this world people are afraid to laugh.

00:47:03
Speaker 5: Now you're poking.

00:47:04
Speaker 2: I like what you're doing, and I think it's okay to laugh when a bit comes off the top rope like that.

00:47:09
Speaker 4: I hope we can have a fourth conversation about this in a roughly eighteen minutes.

00:47:14
Speaker 2: All right, it's halftime. Let's take a break, and then we'll get to the back half of the NFC And exactly two twenty four minutes.

00:47:28
Speaker 3: And we're back.

00:47:29
Speaker 2: Before we get to the back half, we gotta talk about NFL plus next Thursday, the debut of Around the NFL and NFL Plus. It's about what twenty minutes of fun breaking down the week that was, the week that's coming up in that classic ATM style, kind of old school bits that we enjoy some new school flavor. Talked about it on the previous show. We're going to have the fan engagement as well by getting involved in sending us sub missions of questions, comments that we can react to.

00:48:13
Speaker 4: Mark I spoke with someone up on the third floor who said that, you know, since we've started to send the message out that this is going to be happening all season long, that the subscriptions are going crazy, because those are the people that understand what reality is about. If you're someone that thinks like I'll skate by this campaign this year, this season without being a part of this, you're that again. You're that person floating, floating through your society, your community, probably getting dumped left and right. You know, no traction in any sort of career.

00:48:43
Speaker 2: To borrow a Sessler is a floating trash bag.

00:48:45
Speaker 5: You're a floating trash that what you want.

00:48:47
Speaker 1: To be one and oh, by the way, you get football game. My good friend Dave best man of my weddy. He texted me and because he heard a stocking ENVI them. He's like, I didn't even realize because he doesn't have YouTube TV. Yeah, it's great if you do. He doesn't have any cable. He has no way to watch football games. You get your live local you know, you get the local games, to get the primetime games, he's just watching it on NFL bus. He goes to bars.

00:49:11
Speaker 2: How many jobs does Greg have?

00:49:12
Speaker 3: Can you peel off a couple of ben.

00:49:15
Speaker 1: He's doing fine, but he's, you know, a public school teacher. They're not paying them as much as they should. And he's got a million different services. So he goes out and he watches and he or he gets the illegal streams. A lot of people do that. Oh, a lot of young people do that.

00:49:29
Speaker 5: He's sort of backed into this whole.

00:49:30
Speaker 1: Now you've got NFL Plus and you get your games.

00:49:33
Speaker 2: So not only tells that Dave is not able to buy all these things, he's also stealing that's illegal.

00:49:39
Speaker 1: He was now he doesn't have to.

00:49:40
Speaker 2: He's he's signed up now star his last name and a social security He was like, I.

00:49:44
Speaker 1: Was surprised by the local games. I'll subscribe he's in.

00:49:48
Speaker 2: So if you want to as some mid videos ATM Fan of the Week at gmail dot com, NFL Plus plus at M. All right, let's get back into it. The NFC south Mark, Tampa Bay Buccanets.

00:50:01
Speaker 5: Okay, thank you, I will do Tampa Bay.

00:50:04
Speaker 4: I think the most casual fan understands that Baker Mayfield has played well in spurts in his career.

00:50:10
Speaker 3: Shook.

00:50:10
Speaker 4: You've seen that he played pretty well this preseason, but his overall sample size, I think it just spells out this defined ceiling that was tough for me to come to grips with in the past as a Browns fan, but you see it. I think three two three very big of me. Three teams have moved on from Mayfield. That is not a great lore there, and Kyle Trask is really nothing more than a project. So it kind of leads me to this more general question about the Bucks, like, why would any NFL team with a relatively attractive roster go into a season with such little juice under center? Because don't tell me like they're out of moves or they can't find anyone. Because creative front offices in twenty twenty three are finding a way to make almost anything happen in the draft on the open market to get that guy. There aren't many teams with this quarterback situation. So where do the Bucks think this will lead? When, like Bobby Joe, sixth grader knows, this light leads to disaster.

00:51:01
Speaker 2: I have a take. You know, it's the rage now post pandemic life. A lot of people are quiet quitting. Bucks are quiet tanking. It's quiet tank. It's a quiet tank. It's not an outright They have a lot of veterans.

00:51:13
Speaker 1: They actually went out of their way to keep those.

00:51:15
Speaker 2: I understand that, but they also don't intend to keep those guys, probably beyond this year. In many cases, I don't think they intend to keep the head coach or the quarterback. It's a quiet, quiet surrender.

00:51:26
Speaker 1: I hear you. And there's some guys who you write I think will be in there last year, maybe Mike Evans, maybe Shaq Barrett, Levante David came back on a one year deal, but they also gave like long term deal to Carlton Davis. They like Shaq Barrett is still there, Vita Vea is still there. They I don't think they're tanking. I think they have a huge cap hit with Tom Brady who's making thirty or and he's not making it, but he's thirty six million dollars. And at quarterback, they thought they could get by if the rest of the team is good enough, which it's not. It's not gonna be good enough.

00:51:54
Speaker 6: Yeah, they sold their soul and they attached themselves to a gamer of a quarterback who has more teams from the last year than than well most other things. So, uh did that did fall flat?

00:52:05
Speaker 3: You know it?

00:52:06
Speaker 6: But what I will say about the Buccaneers, the.

00:52:07
Speaker 1: Problem is the one minute warning stepped on it. You want to redo the bit?

00:52:14
Speaker 6: No, no, not at all, because it was terrible.

00:52:16
Speaker 5: You're the only one that doesn't.

00:52:18
Speaker 6: I would say the Buccaneers are this. They're a team that is in transition, that is, you know, paying for their title from a few years ago. And then they know that they don't have much room to operate, and they went with Baker, who you know is gonna potentially, you know, lead them to a few gritty wins. And it's gonna be that there's gonna be a lot of turnovers, there's gonna be a inn accuracy and inconsistency, and they're gonna have playmakers outside. They're gonna hope for the best and maybe their defense will be good enough to keep them in some some games. But it's a wide open division, so they feel like they don't need to be an elite team to win the division. I just don't think they're gonna win the division.

00:52:48
Speaker 5: When do we see Kyle Trask?

00:52:51
Speaker 6: I don't when the season is lost.

00:52:54
Speaker 1: I think I do like sixth round rookie Trey Palmer looked pretty spicy. I think he's gonna get Snap's kind of a fun guy to watch.

00:53:02
Speaker 3: The Carolina Panthers.

00:53:03
Speaker 1: Greg Roseenhal, I feel like I've been negative about the Panthers here. They were my number one pick as the under so let's let's spin it positive. I thought Bryce Young in the preseason actually looked exactly like you would think Bryce Young would look like. I do think he's gonna be someone do you have to watch. You're gonna have to watch him, maybe even on the All twenty two each week because his surroundings are gonna make it difficult for him. But I think there's a way for him to be successful. For Frank Rake to set a foundation for what he's gonna be without having incredible numbers, but he sees the field he can be that point guard. They're asking him to do a lot, I do. I think they're gonna ask him to do more than maybe any rookie quarterback since Burrow, at least in terms of really running that offense. And he's shown some anticipation, so he's gonna be someone be patient, but watch it. I think he's gonna look better on film than he will probably in the box score. What else matters with the Panthers. I mean, yeah, they to compete, but all that matters is Bryce Young.

00:54:03
Speaker 6: I mean, the vibes are high because of Bryce Young and because they spend a ton of money in their coaching staff. Greg I mean, run down the list, Josh McCown, QB's coach. You got a number of other notable guys on this staff. Frank Reich's here to change the culture, and they do have some leftovers and a defense that is sneaky good. I think was their best aspect the last three years was that defense, because the offense was just so lost with the number of quarterbacks that they switched in and out. Again, this division is wide open, so I don't think it's going to take all that much. All have to do is kind of string a few together and kind of figure it out. It's just that this team is attaching himself to a quarterback. He's gonna have a little bit of growing pains, but like you said, they're going to ask him to do a lot and I think he's equipped to do it as long as he can see down the field. That's the biggest issue that everybody's made a big deal out of, is this height. We're not height shaming here, but he is a solid player. Bryce Young is who I think is going to be doing a quality job with this team. It's just again, how high can they really go. It'll be better than where they were with Stam Darnold Baker Mayfield last year, and to me, that alone is an improvement in the first year of new regime.

00:55:02
Speaker 4: Well, and it's a point of departure, and there's hope because this is a different player than Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield, and you've got a different coaching staff and there that's not gonna get fired a month into the campaign. My concern though, because it's like you don't want to attach too much to the limited tape that we saw coming out of the preseason. But it's the offensive line because I think their strength is there is their defensive front. They got to, like you said, under the radar defense.

00:55:26
Speaker 5: But you've got to keep him protected.

00:55:28
Speaker 4: This is one quarterback because if it's its size and it's like, look at he can take hits. It's not that he's the first time he gets smacked, he's going to be out of there. But like some of this is a different situation than where you were in college, and that that offensive line spooked me the entire month.

00:55:42
Speaker 2: I think that in the next team we get to, I'll spell it out more. But like Tampa Bay and even like Atlanta who's trying to figure out their quarterback situation, this is a team in transition, and yeah, I think maybe they could hang in the division here if some things go their way, but I don't. I struggle to take them seriously as a team that matters this year. And that doesn't mean that this year doesn't matter if you're a Panthers fan, because there's an important building block season. There's not a lot of heat to me a host, not right now. The one team that's different is the Saints, and I think they are set up well for success this fall. In terms of what success means for the New Orleans Saints in the post Breeze and Peyton era, they have a solid defense with the veterans like Cam Jordan to Mario Davis, rush On Lottimore, a respectable offensive attack with an upgrade of QB. In my opinion, they have the very good fortune of playing in a highly mediocre and developing NFC South Division. You don't have to love the Saints to see them winning nine or ten games this year. In a way, Derek Carr was the perfect addition for this team, GREGI, because the Saints are the Derek Carr of NFL teams to me, good enough to be relevant, but not substantial enough to actually matter.

00:57:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:57:07
Speaker 1: Well, I think the Falcons and the Saints will matter because they have a chance to rack up wins in this division just based on the schedule. The Saints are feeling themselves. I'm a little wary of it, but the Saints and their fans are feeling themselves after this preseason. The hopes are much higher locally than I would have. But they look at Carr, and the line is pretty healthy right now, and Thomas and Olave and Shaheed and the deep backfield and kamaras back and they think with this defense, like we could win eleven or twelve games, we could be a top five to ten offense. That's what they're thinking. I'm not thinking that not.

00:57:42
Speaker 4: I mean, they play the weakest schedule that matters. I think you can, you can compile and add wins that you wouldn't in in a different part of the league. Their offensive defensive line not really impressed with either, not overly, but you have parts all over the place. I mean, to me, it's like any team with Derek Carr and I feel like I'm so negative on car. Like the floor is there, it's higher, it's higher than it would be with some quarterbacks, but the ceiling just feels shaky to me.

00:58:06
Speaker 5: And it's like, I but That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'm with you though, Yeah, that that.

00:58:10
Speaker 2: I think he'll help them and stabilize their offense in a way that Jameis and Winston and company haven't Jameis Winston and company haven't been able to do.

00:58:18
Speaker 5: Is he better than Jameis Winston? One?

00:58:19
Speaker 3: Oh, I think that a doubt person Jameson Winston will play.

00:58:23
Speaker 4: Oh, look, I think some of the highs with Jameis Winston are just like pretty phenomenal, and obviously there's the lows.

00:58:27
Speaker 2: It's way more variance with Winston.

00:58:32
Speaker 4: Carl living up car last year was not a good quarterback like you can in the league for ten years.

00:58:37
Speaker 5: The same size is bigger than that. But like he was a mess last year.

00:58:40
Speaker 4: He lost them games and so it's I always want to see where these Saints fans are two months from now.

00:58:44
Speaker 1: What do you think shook about the fact that the Saints punter was a professional scaffolder then owned a tattoo shop in Bali and Indonesia, and he's once played Australian his football, never American football until just like four years ago in his mid twenties. What do you think about that?

00:59:01
Speaker 6: That's great, that's appreciation. That's a little bit extra boost, a little bit extra energy into every punt. Maybe it'll even hit the roof of the of the Super Dome.

00:59:09
Speaker 1: Rookie, this is a movie waiting to happen.

00:59:12
Speaker 6: Yeah it is, and uh, I have nothing further to add on it.

00:59:16
Speaker 3: Bakers and Bryce Young are the quarterbacks of this division.

00:59:22
Speaker 6: This team is going to be last year's Vikings team. They're gonna win thirteen games and we're gonna realize they weren't that good.

00:59:29
Speaker 3: Real. Oh that's a good take. That's worth taking a trank for.

00:59:33
Speaker 5: I hope he picked the SA Division winner.

00:59:35
Speaker 2: Give it to him again.

00:59:36
Speaker 3: Oh he got him in the eye. Outfit him with a patch.

00:59:44
Speaker 2: Like when you see in modern times the guys that got the patch.

00:59:48
Speaker 5: It's like, how often are you encountering that bully?

00:59:51
Speaker 3: To you, my man?

00:59:53
Speaker 2: Because you look like a bad effort.

00:59:56
Speaker 5: It's a choice.

00:59:57
Speaker 3: Then you gotta grow out to go to you at that point, could.

01:00:00
Speaker 4: Go glass eye if you need it too. So it's it's definitely, it's it, but only if.

01:00:03
Speaker 3: It's like the contact with like the eight ball or something.

01:00:11
Speaker 2: Let's close out the South with the beloved Falcons.

01:00:14
Speaker 6: Nick Schook, Well, the hot topic in Atlanta is b Jeon Robinson. He's the new face of all things Atlanta that aren't related to the Braves. But I love the Falcons for some different reasons. One Arthur Smith is the coaching embodiment of the acronym that the kids love to use.

01:00:31
Speaker 2: D G A F.

01:00:32
Speaker 6: Don't give a you know what. He's gonna do it his way, And even if you criticize him, He can't hear you throw all that FedEx money. And reason number.

01:00:39
Speaker 2: Two is the NFC sound rich to Arthur Smith.

01:00:42
Speaker 6: Exactly can't hear you? I got the money phone up?

01:00:45
Speaker 3: What too?

01:00:46
Speaker 6: Rich? The NFC South is wide open, which we've spoken about plenty at this point, So why not the Falcons? Desmond Ritter might be why. I mean, you know, he had a nice little four game stretch last year, but you know there's not a huge sample size on him and a ton of comment at this point. But can he prove Arthur Smith correcting? Going with him? They added some veterans in the offseason, Jesse Bates klays Campbell. That tells me that these guys see a little bit of potential there. And they won seven games despite finishing twenty fourth in offense and twenty seventh in defense. And these changes in the offseason mean they have to be a little bit better, right. I mean, it could be much worse than Marcus Mariota quarterback, who is so bad last year that you just flat out committed to the run. And they have the easiest strength schedule in the NFL, so chances are they might be better than that seven win mark they've hit.

01:01:27
Speaker 4: They are going to be better. They had sixty eight sacks over the last three seasons. They've added some pieces. I'm not saying their defense will completely flip the switch out of the gate, but they added parts, reliable players. I just think this offense is going to be the one of the stories of the season. We've talked about it a ton on the show. I think other teams better get ready to pay the price. Their little front lawns are going to get burned down by the Falcons because I think this is a different type of team and Arthur Smith, you know what, I'll say one thing. I think he's tried to completely blow away the idea that he's some sort of Nepo baby.

01:01:57
Speaker 5: He's gone his own route.

01:01:59
Speaker 4: I don't know how much money coming into the bank account from FedEx, probably not a small amount, but I mean, he's his own guy, and I think he's in year three. This is an Arthur Smith team. It looks a lot like the way the Titans punished teams. It went out and it got the parts quickly and right now. I think they're so different than any other team out there, but I cannot wait to see them.

01:02:17
Speaker 1: That's why I'm in on Smith because he brings something to the table. When he arrived there, they were known as the worst offensive line in the league for like five plus years. Right now, certainly in run blocking and mostly with the same guys, you can look at them and say that might be the best offensive line in the league in terms of run blocking. He completely transformed their energy and that's something to build off. We'll see. We haven't mentioned Ryan Neil Sin's name once this offseason. That's their new defensive coordinator. He came from New Orleans. The talent's better on defense, Dan. I don't know if they're gonna be any better. That's a mystery. But you gotta mashers up front because of Arthur Smith in that mustache.

01:02:54
Speaker 2: You guys have warned me down. I can't do it anymore. I'm just it's time for the season to start. I think Taylor Heineke starts six games for this team. Ooh, maybe you still win ten because the division is dogs. But you guys can be very excited. I'm not going to say any anything negative other than.

01:03:14
Speaker 1: Disagreement's good.

01:03:23
Speaker 3: Last division.

01:03:25
Speaker 5: See what you did here, you snake draft?

01:03:27
Speaker 2: Snake draft.

01:03:29
Speaker 3: Last division is the San Francisco NFC West. Here is the San Francisco forty nine ers. Here is Nick Schuck.

01:03:35
Speaker 6: Back to back we go. The hottest topic in the Bay Area remains the same as it's been for most of the Kyle Shanahan and John lynch earrow, which is quarterback half the discussion retired officially when San Francisco traded Tree Lance to Dallas. I think we're all tired of that narrative. Anyway. The other half headed out to the beach house because turns out Rock Perty's gonna be fine. He's gonna be the quarterback week one, right, So what's left? Bosa still not with the team. He's still awaiting a look at the contract.

01:04:03
Speaker 1: Some weird whispers there, yeah, yeah.

01:04:05
Speaker 6: And Kyle Shanahan even said he can imagine a scenario which Bosa misses games because of this.

01:04:10
Speaker 2: Timeout last time out, stop the clock.

01:04:15
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the Nick Bosa thing. What are you hearing whispers?

01:04:18
Speaker 1: I just I suspect these are the types of whispers that actually happened before the two sides come to an agreement. But I think there's some conversation in league circles, is like, is Nick Bosa definitely on this team could get a could we get a surprise move?

01:04:34
Speaker 2: Before this season, Kyle Shanahan insisted there's no chance they are trading him, But you hear coaches say that all the time.

01:04:42
Speaker 1: I think he was responding to these whispers to be fair.

01:04:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one thing I'll point out is his older brother, Nick Bosa, had a highly contentious beginning of his pro career with the Chargers over money. So the Bosa boys and the Bosa family are not afraid to get their hands dirty and dig in. This is not the same team without Bosa. They need this man to be anchoring their line.

01:05:05
Speaker 4: I always tend to think this stuff will get worked out. But this is a team that you know, has given up a lot of draft picks that turn into nothing, and if you cannot make it work with this player, you could get a bounty.

01:05:15
Speaker 5: But I just don't see that happen.

01:05:17
Speaker 1: I don't either. I can't quite imagine, because the only way it makes sense is if you get veteran players back, which is just like a wild thing to do right now, Like this team doesn't wild things, it doesn't make sense for first round picks. I don't think in early September, maybe maybe maybe, I don't know, it'll be wild. Here's the Shanahan how about how about Chris Jones for Nick Bosa trade. Let's just do that.

01:05:40
Speaker 2: Fun now we're talking. Here is Kyle Shanahan's exact words. By the way, a little while ago you said this is the Bosa thing was going as you expected, would him designed.

01:05:49
Speaker 8: By right now, I thought it would come probably to this time, just looking at the history of those things, and I'm really hoping it gets done. I know they're working tirelessly out of John hamp Prague. I know there's their teams, but hopefully we can get him in here sooner than later.

01:06:04
Speaker 2: Anyway, you can imagine this team not having him on the team, saying that if this thing goes on into.

01:06:08
Speaker 8: The breakless season, yeah, I can imagine anything. Doesn't mean I like that picture, of course. Now, you guys know how we feel about Nick, and we all know how good of a player he is, so hopefully we can come to terms soon and get him here as as possible.

01:06:24
Speaker 6: I mean, it sounds like he's starting to get a little bit nervous, just because it's a little nervous hearing his voice a little bit there.

01:06:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, he expected him back. All right, time in Eric Robins.

01:06:37
Speaker 6: All right, we're back to what we're down this list of things, all right, Steve Wilkes replaces Demiko Ryans as the defensive coordinator. Another defensive coordinator. They've done a great did a great job in San Francisco, heads off to head coaching job Elsford. Can Steve Wilkes be the latest to maintain their league best defense? That is a question. If he doesn't have Nick Botha, it's gonna be a little bit more difficult. They did get Javon Hargrave in the offseason and probably paid him too much for too long, you know, based on the fact that he's already passed thirty. But you know that's neither here nor there. Are they gonna be good enough without Bosa? And when they get him back, is brock Perty gonna match the hype that he created for himself with his tour run through the playoffs all the way to the NFC title game last year? Those are the big questions. But this conference is ultimately not that strong. The Seahawks are their greatest threat in this division. I still expect them to be. There is just how good can they be?

01:07:26
Speaker 5: I think on the Steve Wilkes front.

01:07:28
Speaker 4: Like this, the Niners under Shanahan have just become accustomed to being the coaches being plucked so often, and the train keeps moving. And I think Wilkes, by the way, is not like a step down from anyone either. I mean, players love Steve Wilkes and we've seen that everywhere he goes, and I think that's a good thing for the Niners. It is hard to duplicate that year after year, and I think it's probably tough if you're a player to have to get accustomed to a new style of coach and new all of it.

01:07:53
Speaker 5: But maybe not.

01:07:54
Speaker 4: I mean, this guy's been around, and don't I just think the Niners are a team that I trust from perty do everything to keep going.

01:08:01
Speaker 1: I do too. But it's amazing how little we've talked about Purdy's ceiling and potential this offseason. This is a second year quarterback who played at an extremely high level for a rookie. If a top ten picks played that well as a rookie, imagine if Trevor Lawrence played like that. I know they're very different. I'm just saying he played at a very high level as a rookie. We haven't really talked about what Party turns into. Is he just that guy forever? I think that's where our mind goes. But there's a chance it was a mirage. There's also a very realistic chance he continues to improve like most young quarterbacks do, and then forty nine has really got something.

01:08:38
Speaker 3: I think what we.

01:08:39
Speaker 2: Saw from Jimmy Garoppolo in that offense helps inform me not to get too noivous about Rock Party, because I think Garoppolo is an average quarterback. Maybe he's looked great high and maybe it's higher. So I think because of the offense he's in, I think he's going to be good to maybe very good, maybe not quite great.

01:09:01
Speaker 3: The Seahawks, I like it. I like a lot of what I see here with the Seahawks. You know.

01:09:07
Speaker 2: I love their wide receivers. I like that Jackson Smith and Jigba is on track after suffering that injury.

01:09:14
Speaker 3: I like their running game if they can stay healthy. I like their defense.

01:09:19
Speaker 2: I like Bobby Wagner's back, and Tarique Woollen in year two can only get better. And there's even hell, I'll say it, Jamal Adams is back. What does he give them? Maybe he can juice them a little bit more. There is a Geno Smith question here. There's a little bit hot and cold as the season went on. But I think as long as Gino is somewhere in between there and I think it right around the Dalton line, I think it's as a playoff team, so he doesn't have to be the monster he was at the beginning of last year that kind of shocked the league. He just can't fall off a cliff and I think he'll probably be okay, too good, and that will be good enough for ten games.

01:09:58
Speaker 1: I'm worried about and enough passers, But when it comes to Geno, I am curious, like can he stay that aggressive? He was extreme, He goes for it and he did not have as many interceptions last year. I'll even admit as he as he should have. So to me that that creates a high variance. Is he is gonna go for it. He is going to try to fit that ball into tight windows, and that that's risky. Yeah.

01:10:20
Speaker 4: I think, like with with with Geno Smith, I I'm at the point where I trust that the first like three quarters of the season was really strong and it did tail off at the end. I mean it was kind of concerning to see, like how the Seahawks crumbled against the Niners. That defense just turned Geno Smith and the entire operation into a hot mess. But John Schneider, after making that Jamal Adams deal, which felt a little desperate back then, two of the best drafts potentially, like last year's draft was phenomenal and he's done. And again, if you keep doing that, you're gonna keep supporting Geno Smith, You're gonna support the whole operation. The Seahawks to me, are a sneaky Like throw him into the NFC title game, I would not be surprised. Like they could upset Dallas, they could upset potentially Philadelphia, they could beat the Niners at some point in the playoffs.

01:11:02
Speaker 5: They're right there. I think they're just on the outside. Look at that eight tier.

01:11:05
Speaker 1: I think they have a Niners problem, though tier point they do.

01:11:07
Speaker 2: They might have a Niners problem, but they you might get four wins out of the other two division opponents.

01:11:12
Speaker 6: Shook, Yeah, that's gonna boost you right out of the gate. But you know, I think as much concern as there might be or worry that Gino can't replicate that, I think that Pete Carroll's got the opportunity to go back to what he does best. We love to do the most is run the football. Look at their running back, I mean Kem Walker, they draft Zach Charboney, they still got DJ Dallas back there. They have enough guys to just continue to keep pounding the ball on the ground, which will open things up for Geno and allow him to do these things that he did so well last year. You know, they tied for eleventh and passing last year they were eighteenth and rushing. I think you see those maybe even flip this year. And defensively they can be better. But because of what like Mark just said, two really great draft classes, a ton of young talent on the defensive side of the ball, they're really rounding out this roster. And like you guys all said, this division is not that good outside of the forty nine ers. So I expect him to be in the conversation and probably be another wild card team. Maybe they won't be any better than they were last year. We'll see. I mean, I still think they'll be right where they were last year.

01:12:03
Speaker 2: If not. I had one more kind of negative Geno thing there, but I ran out of time, So Greg congratulations.

01:12:14
Speaker 5: Big congratulations for the game.

01:12:16
Speaker 1: I mean they're not respecting the game. I don't know where this trenk is. I should be getting it.

01:12:22
Speaker 5: That was a voluminous one.

01:12:24
Speaker 1: That was aggressive Greg the Rams, Okay, you asked me, I think last week Dan at one point like what young player? I think you asked about, like what young players have been stepping up? What are who are? I felt like it was a missed opportunity. We talked about the Rams so much, don't remember I I I have a couple of thoughts. One, Matthew Stafford's the reports in camp are out of this world. That like, he's looked really good. So that's at least intriguing.

01:12:51
Speaker 4: Me outside of communicating with the all these so called younger players like like five years, big.

01:12:55
Speaker 3: News, smile, he's got too, got those gleaming choppers.

01:12:58
Speaker 1: But number two, I think success this year is about these young players. So they have an edge rusher Byron Young, a rookie who's gonna start who I thinks look pretty good. They have a guard Steve Avila, what they believe is gonna be a foundation piece. In terms of a guard, Puoka Nakua is gonna play what a name Pooka nakoua slot receiver in the Cooper Cup Mold We'll see how good he is. And then they have a very young secondary couple second year players, including Darien Kendrick. They have Trey Tomlinson, the small cousin Ledanian like developing these guys in Stafford playing well to me, that success. We've talked so much about the Rams shook. I feel like I've we've talked, we've overextended ourselves on RAMS talk. I want to hear you talk about the Rams.

01:13:36
Speaker 3: Have we No.

01:13:37
Speaker 1: I feel like we've had a lot of RAMS talk this offseason just as a weird team.

01:13:41
Speaker 3: Uhh.

01:13:42
Speaker 6: I mean it doesn't help that you're right next door to the bat they play, But I think this is a team where you just lower expectations. I mean they they basically did that for themselves with the letter they sent the fans in the off season. Look, we're not going to be active in free agency. We are going to trade Jalen Ramsey or we just did we have to do this to be decent in the future, in the near futures to completely.

01:13:58
Speaker 5: Tearing it down.

01:13:59
Speaker 6: And that because you went all in, everybody saw you go all in and they got on board, and it got you a ring. And now you're just paying the price for it in a more straightforward way than the Buccaneers are doing, and that's perfectly fine. A successful season for them this year is staying healthy, is improving the offensive line, is helping Matthew Stafford develop a rapport with his younger teammates. Maybe, although how often are you really going to see that visualized on the field, I don't know, But I do like what they did, the minimal moves that they made in the off season. I love Steve Avila. I think that offensive line was their biggest need last year, very obviously, and I think he's gonna end up being there for a long time.

01:14:33
Speaker 3: That story from Stafford's wife maybe kind of sad.

01:14:36
Speaker 5: It is, but I would.

01:14:38
Speaker 4: I think it's just I think it's probably could have been like a bad day he had with or like a one day's sort of observation.

01:14:44
Speaker 3: Nobody plays cards anymore.

01:14:46
Speaker 4: We're all people are on cell phones. Guys and girls are staring at their cell phones all day long. A decade plus ago. This is not a new This is not just happening to the Rams locker room now. I mean I get to So.

01:14:55
Speaker 3: You're calling Matthew Stafford's wife a liar.

01:14:57
Speaker 1: Okay, No, not at all.

01:14:58
Speaker 4: I'm just saying that, Like, I think he's probably all older players have had to deal with this for a while.

01:15:02
Speaker 5: He's the second oldest quarterback in the league. That's kind of crazy.

01:15:04
Speaker 1: I think it was all kind of tongue in cheek, and Sean Jean McVay definitely uh took issue with it. It was just saying, like, look, he's a leak. I think this happens to any older players, right, you think Tom Brady and uh Nikhil Harry we're yucking it up.

01:15:17
Speaker 3: I like that you you said.

01:15:19
Speaker 1: That Pooka Poka.

01:15:22
Speaker 3: Was in the Cooper Cup mode. He's not a white guy, and that's that's good growth by.

01:15:27
Speaker 1: Everyone inside outside. How about pook especially, Well, what what.

01:15:33
Speaker 3: A time.

01:15:36
Speaker 6: Poka's brother and or cousin Kaiakula? That's worth it. I'll take another one. What is it kai Nakula?

01:15:44
Speaker 2: Okay, he's kind of kolah Arizona Cardinals. A fitting way to end things. I note, Mark Sessler, you.

01:15:51
Speaker 5: Gave me the jackpot here.

01:15:54
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, you've moved on from the heart and soul of the organization called McQuay. Uh you now mind through a deep lost in outer space. Good laughter, All seems lost, I think if you're a Cardinals fan.

01:16:06
Speaker 3: But bit good laughter.

01:16:09
Speaker 5: Here's the thing. I think people are too down on what's happening in Arizona. I really do.

01:16:13
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I think there is a light on the horizon. Okay, it's like one calendar year from now, we're very likely or very possibly talking about a team armed with a complete new like solar system in Caleb Williams. And then everything changed, and it's like I kind of think you got to get on board in this. But I would say, is there anyone here that is like morally opposed to the here no evil see no evil tank job? Because that's what they're doing, and no one's talking about it. No one, I mean they're talking about it. It's like we're just gonna this stuff just happens in the league does nothing about it. It's not what the NFL wants. But it's like when you cut Colt McCoy, you're only reliable.

01:16:47
Speaker 1: Veteran, like you're thirty eight years old, and what world was he reliable or necessarily better than Josh Stapp.

01:16:54
Speaker 4: I'm not saying he's an all pro. I'm just saying that the Cardinals are clearly going to this direction. I am saying I kind of don't care because if the if the ransom for this or what comes on the other side is the best quarterback coming out of college and you reset everything, I'm cool that to think there's some people that are getting like morally morally up, you know, thrown about.

01:17:11
Speaker 5: But because of the whole.

01:17:11
Speaker 2: Thing, well, just you know, if you're gonna charge full ticket prices and full parking and and ask your fans to you know, buy into the team and then not try which slashing prices would.

01:17:24
Speaker 5: You rather go?

01:17:25
Speaker 4: Like like a soft six win terrible team, not fun to watch it.

01:17:29
Speaker 1: They mightn't know that way if they overachieved and if Kyler Murray actually came back. But to your point, there is light at the end of the rison. If you get Caleb Williams or Drake May and you get picks for Kyler Murray, we'll see if they bring him back or not. I mean, it's kind of easy to try to lose games. It's hard to do something with it. After that. They're over under now shook I saw is down to three and a half. Wow, which is the lowest for any team. I believe, like THEE tied for the lowest ever along with the expansion teams that have been added to the league, like Panther.

01:18:02
Speaker 6: Well, this roster isn't much better than an expansion team right now. I mean, that's that's basically what we're looking at. At the quarterback situation and beyond. On both sides of the ball, there is just they lack talent and Mark you said you don't have a problem with this right Well you'll have a problem. I know when you'll have a problem week six, when you pull it up on replay and you're like, oh my god, I gotta sit through forty minutes of this team playing terrible football. I can't believe their fans have to do this.

01:18:27
Speaker 4: No doubt, but I think, like you, if you float through the wilderness with no quarterback year after year and they have Kyler Murray, but like I think they're clearly moving on from him at some point.

01:18:34
Speaker 1: It's the NFL. Though they could stumble into four wins, the difference between the medium teams and the bad teams, even a team this bad isn't that huge.

01:18:41
Speaker 4: And I would take a terrible season for the best quarterback. Like coming out of the college draft in years.

01:18:46
Speaker 3: Kyler Murray is one of the highest PID players in the league. Is on the roster.

01:18:49
Speaker 5: It's Kyler Murray.

01:18:50
Speaker 3: It's kind of beside the point to me.

01:18:52
Speaker 5: It's like, I think they're post Kyler Murray.

01:18:53
Speaker 2: This team is such a disaster. The decision making behind the scenes is a disaster. Every week there's a new story, like look into what there we just heard about Steve Kim and what's going on, and now we're talking about, Oh, it's okay to go one in sixteen because we could look forward to a new quarterback next year. You already had the guy Kyler Murray last year, you gave him a massive contract, and now we're already looking past him getting traded away. Hold on, no, wait a second, Why should I trust as a Cardinals fan that next year is gonna be any better based on the way this team has been run for half a decade.

01:19:32
Speaker 4: Okay, so, first of all, I don't disagree that the Cardinals organization has issues. I mean, in fact, they've basically like tampered to get their current coach. You probably will be fired after this year, So it is, it is messy. I'm just saying any any football team around your football team got Aaron Rodgers, everything's changed.

01:19:50
Speaker 5: If the Houston.

01:19:51
Speaker 4: Texans were in another world and now they've gotten a hope because they've got the young quarterback. It's like Kyler Murray was attached to the last coach in the last GM, in the last regime.

01:19:59
Speaker 5: It's all all new now.

01:20:00
Speaker 4: And if they want to move on from a guy that maybe football is not the most important thing on the planet to culinary or they're done with the experience, I get it. If you can get Caleb Williams, tell me Cardinals fans won't have a They'll they'll be fine a year from now.

01:20:12
Speaker 5: If that's the end result.

01:20:13
Speaker 1: I hear you. But I to Dan's point, the Cardinals are basically a lesser version of the Browns and Lions in terms of a team that's been as dysfunctional as possible. Now, they've had some higher moments in sans in this century that sort of make you know, make you overlook that, But the way they've been moved around it's been the same ownership. I hear that. And when you have Steve Wilkes and that's what you were referring to, testifying a very trustworthy source that ownership, and Steve kind like directed him to use this burner phone and use this It's like it's bad. And ultimately, yeah, you can change the GM and the coach and maybe that'll lead to better. But you know, they are not a fan base that has a lot of faith in the organization.

01:20:59
Speaker 2: And I I hate outward tanking because the one thing I think, and I've said it on the show before, don't take hope away from a fan base and just say sit through this year, pay us to take bad medicine here, and then everything's gonna be better next year with a shiny new toy under the Christmas tree. I just I'm not buying it that that's gonna be enough for Cardinals fans that are smart to feel like, oh, everything's gonna be okay if we just get through these next.

01:21:28
Speaker 4: Well maybe if you're smart, you're not a Cardinals fan to begin with, but you know, well.

01:21:32
Speaker 1: We're Jason Zumbaldt.

01:21:33
Speaker 2: Any of us were born into it, and that's what makes it so hard.

01:21:37
Speaker 4: Let me but during the whole Browns journey and shook, I wonder where you're this, like they try to do this and it doesn't work necessarily, Like they end up getting Miles Garrett and Baker Mayfield. It's like one of those players is excellent, the other is gone. So yeah, it's a total it's a total wild card move. But if you ended up getting like a top three quarterback, I'm just saying for me, it's a long distance journey of being a fan. I could accept this if you got a absolutely organizational altering Peyton Manning two point zero and then.

01:22:07
Speaker 2: But now we're talking a lotto ticket because how many Peyton Mannings are there?

01:22:10
Speaker 5: I know, but this is the way to swing to the defenses.

01:22:13
Speaker 2: How many bad teams? And as a Browns fan you knew this. As a Jets fan, I know this. You get the next great hope at quarterback, but then you give them a bad offensive line. Sure, don't give them good weapons, you give dysfunction behind the scenes. It's like you do not get the trust Cardinals for me to think you're gonna be okay if you just go through this bad year.

01:22:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, but typically functional teams don't pick number one overall unless they've done something insane to get up there. So it's like you like, it takes this kind of a player or a quarterback to come in and save and change organizations. When Brett fav came to the Packers, the Packers were an absolute disaster.

01:22:47
Speaker 5: They had been a disaster for a long long time.

01:22:49
Speaker 1: And all the same media. Okay though, because like the Cardinal and I think Cardinals fans are having this flashback after that four and thirteen and how embarrassing Kingsbury was. They had it a little bit with Steve Wilks, but for the most part since arians they've been in wizen Hunt, they've been fun. They've been frisky. From nineteen eighty five to two thousand and eight, that's a long time, same ownership. The Saint Louis slash Phoenix slash Arizona Cardinals had one winning season and that was a nine and seven Jake Plumber year. I mean that, and it's the same ownership. So you suddenly get these flashbacks that's like, oh, I remember when we were the old Cardinals and you're hoping those days don't come back.

01:23:27
Speaker 6: I feel I think it's it's dependent on the quarterback. Like Mark said, Caleb Williams could be that type of player, and I think that's why it's different. But I agree with you, Dan, because so many times you say, let's get the next great guy. But it changes based on is there.

01:23:39
Speaker 3: Really a Foeground conclusion with no Kyler Murray?

01:23:43
Speaker 1: Oh no, that so Drake may could be the number one overall pick for all we know.

01:23:46
Speaker 6: Ye, it's a good class.

01:23:48
Speaker 3: Is what is the consensus opinion right now that Kyler will be moved?

01:23:51
Speaker 4: Well, that's why it's a soft like tank. They're not like I think the way they treat that. And as the months go on, that story is going to grow. If if Kyler Murray clearly, you know, he says he's not ready himself, but if you get to the point that three months from now he's healthy and he's not playing now if they want, if they have one win, you kind of get that on some level, but like you've got to it's it's sort of unspoken that this team is clearly trying to get the number.

01:24:13
Speaker 1: I think if they got the one pick, Kyler Murray is more likely to be elsewhere than they are. Absolutely to put the pick up for sale, but you never know.

01:24:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd be surprised if Kyler Murray as the quarterback you're not very surprised.

01:24:25
Speaker 2: Um, and just looking at their schedule because I've mentioned over watch a couple of times. If they don't find a win in those first twelve weeks, ending with a home game against the Rams, they close at Pittsburgh by home, San Francisco at Chicago, doable at Philly home Seattle, So wow, playoff rount.

01:24:45
Speaker 1: You gotta get it. They have a game at Houston. You got to get a win in the division. You know those teams, Well, you just gotta. You gotta beat the Sea Extra the Rams.

01:24:53
Speaker 2: Probably all right, shook, You've said it all. He said so much, said so much, you can't even speak anymore.

01:25:02
Speaker 3: It's over.

01:25:03
Speaker 1: Uh.

01:25:04
Speaker 6: It was a bad time for the Cardinals to introduce new uniforms.

01:25:08
Speaker 1: Check out the grid Iron podcast, the only podcast I believe in America that the world that Chok host. That is an F one slash football podcast.

01:25:17
Speaker 2: No one ever thought to try this before Versatile.

01:25:20
Speaker 6: Luckily, my physical therapist suggested it and we were rolling.

01:25:23
Speaker 2: It's one of those ideas once you hear about it, like, I can't believe I never thought of that F one.

01:25:30
Speaker 1: I can believe it because I don't know anything about F one, but it's fun.

01:25:34
Speaker 3: All right.

01:25:34
Speaker 2: Thank you Shook, Thank you guys, everyone behind the glass mark, thank you, what a.

01:25:40
Speaker 5: Week well, thank you and thank your bit which.

01:25:42
Speaker 1: Was one of the best weeks of the year and it's leading to the actual best week of the year Week one.

01:25:48
Speaker 3: Go back and listen to that bit.

01:25:49
Speaker 1: We all liked it.

01:25:50
Speaker 3: Open ears heed the call.