Which Phillies have the most trade value?

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Jedie Warris. Welcome to The Philly Show.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Ruben Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury. I'm Todd z A lucky brought to you by Follo Territory Network, The Philly Show. It is Tuesday, November nineteenth, twenty twenty four. Gentlemen, We talk some.

00:00:24
Speaker 3: Ball, baby talk the ball.

00:00:26
Speaker 2: How about we did some We did more than ball talk last week. Did some horse racing talk?

00:00:31
Speaker 3: Yeah? That really fascinating.

00:00:33
Speaker 2: Worth. If you haven't listened to the Jason Worth episode or watch it on YouTube, I had a lot of people reach out to me and say they absolutely loved them. Mean, Jason like brought it last week in terms of telling great stories about horse racing. And he told some great Philly stories, the Pat Gillick story when he first came back to play for the Phillies. And I've never heard that before.

00:00:55
Speaker 3: Oh no, it's great. That's kind of sitting and it's real.

00:00:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean really good stuff.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

00:01:01
Speaker 2: You know you guys love the too. I know because we were texting back and forth afterward. How much fun we had.

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Speaker 1: Who did you hear from Todd that enjoyed the episode?

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Speaker 2: I just heard from a lot of like random like like friends and stuff like that that listened to the podcast, and man, I really loved you know, Jason. He was great talking about the horse racing, you know, he you know, he was a lot of fun talking about baseball.

00:01:20
Speaker 3: He loved me.

00:01:20
Speaker 2: Loved the story of Chase being superstitious covering his eyes as he looked out to the right field when Jason was playing out there because he thought it was jinxing the pictures, and and you know the stuff you had to say about Bryce, Bryce Harper as a kid, as a nineteen year old rookie or whatever he was it was, it was great as well. So, yeah, a lot of if you haven't checked that out, go check it out.

00:01:43
Speaker 1: Seems like everybody, everybody's got a good Chase story, you know.

00:01:47
Speaker 2: That's yeah, That's kind of why I've been anytime we have one of his old teammates on, I've I've made a point to ask because they've all got something like over the top that you really don't feel like you hear from a lot of When.

00:01:59
Speaker 1: When he said Chase would turn around and look at him at right field, it actually reminded me of the story that when during VP and infield practice, you know, pregame workouts. When Chase thought the infield was too dry and playing too hard and choppy, he would turn around to that window where Mike book Hold of the ground screw guy had his office, and he bombed the window with balls until Bookholder would come out and spray the field and soften it up. That reminded me of that.

00:02:30
Speaker 3: So the beauty about Chase for me was that what he presented to the world was way way different from what he was, you know, in the clubhouse. And you guys got a chance to see that. He and Worth and some other guys, you know, Worth showing sort of having more personality with you guys, and Chase always being, you know, mister stoic, mister professional. But he man, there's a lot of cool Chase stories and what he was about. I mean, the bottom line for Chase was it was all about winning a baseball game that day, right. All he cared about was figuring out a way to beat somebody else's ass.

00:03:07
Speaker 1: And Jason was always really uh, here was the first one on that high five line, right, Todd, was Jason.

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Speaker 2: He was exactly he was uh, you know, you remind me of speaking of this is a funny story that I heard over the years is that Chase was always get ready super early for a game, like an hour before the game. He'd be dressed in full UNI and Jason would just go have a good game, Chase Like Chase. Jason would be like in a towel an hour before the game, like not even close to being ready to go, and there's Chase at his locker like, all right, you gotta get checking himself up to get ready.

00:03:40
Speaker 1: Gotta get ready.

00:03:41
Speaker 2: So that was funny. Yeah, go listen to the Jason Worth episode if you haven't checked it out already. I promise you you will not regret it. But yeah, it's Tuesday, Tuesday. Uh, not a lot has been going on, guys, for the Phillies I've been I'm sure you guys have been getting askedes too, right.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: Like what are they doing?

00:03:56
Speaker 2: Why is it taking so long? So Ruben, I want to ask you because you were one of these guys when when you were in Dave Nebrowski's shoes and Jim and I were sitting there going are they these guys going to do anything? Or like what's going on here? So let me ask you what do you think is going on? Right now in the Phillies front office or in baseball? Do you think do you think it's teams sitting there going we need to see where Jan Soto's going is? Is that the domino that has to fall? Is that a total outlier from everything? Are teams that might be interested in Alec Bohm, for just for an example, sitting there going, I don't want to get involved in Alec Bowm until I find out if we get Alex Bregman. What's going on? Why why are things going so slow right now?

00:04:36
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it's a sort of a domino effect. And I think when one when you have one player of this caliber, I think, first of all, the agents are going to want that salary out there they go. They're going to want to see that that deal get done, because then it would drag everybody else. Now all of a sudden, like who's the next best you know, who's the next best free agent? Well, the next best free agent might be you know, I don't. It depends on you know, how you feel about it. It could be Anthony Santandeer. It could be you know, as far as you know, it could be task or Hernandez. It could be Alex Fragman. It could be you know, any number of you know, players that feel like the next one in line behind him, and they just want to see how far it gets dragged. So you know, he's gonna set the market for the free agents for this class and then there everybody else is gonna ride the coattails, baby, And and I think part of that is that, and part of it is teams are deciding, Okay, if Soto goes to Boston, then I gotta I gotta, you know, I gotta go Plan BE or Plan C. If he you know, you know, then New York's got to go. You know, the two New York teams have to figure out, Okay, now, what have we got to do to make ourselves better? Or is there somebody else out there now? And there may be some teams like the Phillies who probably see this guy as an outlier. You know, they did make a run at Yamamoto last year because he was a difference maker. Do they have the same sort of run at a guy like Soto? I don't think so if that's gonna happen, because I just don't think it's a viable thing fiscally. But I mean, shoot, it's not my money, and I don't really know how they want to handle it, but it sounds like they're gonna at least, you know, poke around a little bit. But I think there's a whole set of things that are happening. And it also affects trades because now do you have Soto or do you not have Soto? What do I have to do to improve my offense? What do I have to do to improve in different areas, you know, pitching wise, you know it. I don't think that is as affected by the Sodo signing. But but again, you know, it's about the money. Like you know, everybody's got a budget, everybody's has to figure out where they want to throw their money, and it's it's always really interesting. I always felt like it always felt like I had to I sort of for me, I like to work in the vacuum, like, Okay, these are the players that are like real targets for me. I can't wait around for X, y or Z. If X is not making himself available and that's the guy I want, then I'm gonna have to go to Y or Z because I'm got to make my team better. I can't let them dictate what they're going to do or I'm going to try to figure out a way what's best for my organization, what's best for me, and I can't necessarily wait around for the market to make it happen. I mean I've set the market at times. I did the Papal bond signing and and sort of set the market there, but I wanted the best, you know, closure, I try to make a run at Matson, couldn't get it done when it's a Paple bond, And so I think it's really a matter of just being able to manage the whole process. You know, you have your board, you have your the guys that you want, and then you sort of work your way down and uh. And I think it's it's really it's going to be frozen for a little while until Boris decides to do what he needs to do with Soda.

00:07:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Soda is going to hold up some things because it's you know, it's that old economichilosophy about high tide raises all boats. So he's going to raise the tide. And Anthony Santander, you know, though he's not in the same stratosphere financially, what he's going to get in contract is Sodo. He's going to see some some ripple effect and the Oscar Hernandez is and it's going to affect the entire free agent pool. And this number, we've talked about it a million times. It's going to be high. And you know, as we sit here at the start of a new week, November nineteenth, there's a report out there, and I don't know how valid it is, but there is a report out there but noted newsbreaker Carlos by Erga, my man, my teammate.

00:08:50
Speaker 3: He's beauty many.

00:08:52
Speaker 1: Carlitos Byga is reporting that Soda already has a six hundred and sixty million dollar offer from the Mets. Again, then I don't know if it's true, but apparently this is being reported, and I just find that number is so interesting because it is twice as much as Bryce Harper, which was a one that kind of set the world on fire, what six years ago or so.

00:09:19
Speaker 2: That's that's that is crazy double the amount that Bryce Harper is being.

00:09:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's true.

00:09:23
Speaker 2: I'm just right, no, I yeah, totally.

00:09:25
Speaker 1: I mean take it with you know, be forewarned. But it's being talked about, and we certainly can talk about it here on the old Toddpod.

00:09:34
Speaker 2: All right.

00:09:34
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any question that the number is going to be north of five hundred million. Yeah, I think so, It's not unrealistic. I think that there's a six in front of this number, you know. I know, Oh Todi set the tone with the seven numbers. So who the hell knows, man, who the hell knows? It's craziness. All I know is it is craziness. That is not my money.

00:09:55
Speaker 2: Thankful, Yes, exactly right, We'll be right back.

00:09:58
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00:11:00
Speaker 3: We are back, Rubin.

00:11:03
Speaker 2: We're talking about let's I wanted to talk about trades, and a lot of different phillies have been mentioned as trade possibilities. But one thing I want to ask you is how come it takes so long sometimes to make these trades happen? Like in other words, let's talk about like Roy Halliday, for instance, you would you might talk to Alex Anthropolis and then what you guys wait a week and get back to each other. How can you guys on not when I'm making fantasy football trades, I'm texting an email and I'm getting this stuff done in the day. You know, you guys drag it out for for weeks and weeks, like you know, for instance, like you go, he says, well I want Kyle Drebick and Dominic Brown. Why don't you just come back five minutes later say I will give you this guy, this guy. How came it takes so long to get these deals done?

00:11:43
Speaker 3: So squeeze, Yeah, I mean I'll hear three bears. There's breaking points and there's points that you get to to try to get a deal done. I mean the bottom line is I always felt like you have to give up equity for equity. I mean you got to give quality for quality. I think that's that was an important thing for me and it and the question is like how much is how much is enough? And when you're talking about iconic type players or players who are like really really good players, guys who have value in a certain way, Like when you start talking about guys like Alec Bohm and Brandon Marsh, they have value, like real value because they're under control, their salaries are not huge, they are product they have been productive players. So it does take some time. I mean you're talking about Roy Halliday, for instance, that's a that's an icon Like alex antoppos his first trade as you know as a GM for the for the Toronto Blue Jays. I mean, he better not missed, you know, he better get some pretty good players. And so it does, say takes some time. And then there's other deals that get done, like in like four seconds. You're like, Okay, I need that guy and I need that guy, and you know, and there's there's certain situations where where that'll happen as well. But you know, typically it does take some time because especially now, it's we live in an era now where people don't want to be fooled, they don't want to look like idiots, and I mean, I think that slows some things down. I think people are really creative. There's some creativity that's going on and stuff like that, and that's why it takes some time. You got two, you got three team trades, trades, you got all types of crack going on, and I think that that's part of it. But but I think in this day and age, everybody's so worried because everybody's judged on the trade like immediately, That's not how it works, man. I mean, you don't judge trades on what happens today. It's about what it does for your organization. And where you are as an organization and how that can help you today and tomorrow and the next day. And so, you know, I always felt like it was important for me to do us best for the organization, whether it's a move that was important for us right now or for a move that's that's for later on. So there's so many different dynamics that are going on right now. When a player becomes available, you want to make sure you maximize, you know, the the the value of that player. So if there's a two or three teams that are really interested in that, it's like you want to be a little bit like the agent, right you want to try to elevate that value as much as possible, get as much quality as you can't.

00:14:21
Speaker 2: Jim, what do you think is the on the trade? Uh? The guys that have been mentioned most by the Philly you know, Philly players have been mentioned the most as trade candidates. Who do you think might have the highest value right now?

00:14:32
Speaker 1: I think Alec Bohme two years of control, he's an assending player, is already a good player who still has upside, uh, and there are teams out there looking for third base help. I think he definitely has the most value. I think that's why we're hearing a lot of his name.

00:14:50
Speaker 3: Right ye, And I feel I actually feel badly for you know, those types of players, because it's not necessarily that the Phillies are like active throwing them out there, but probably just listening. I mean, we went through this with Bobby and Bray who had gone through this with a lot of different players, where you know, all of a sudden you hear this guy's name out there. Well, I mean Dave Dombrowski. Basically, his job is to try to create as much value with his team and do what's best for the team short term and long term. He's trying to win a championship, and so so he owes it to himself and the organization and the fans to listen to everything.

00:15:30
Speaker 1: Does they move him? If they move him, they better get a handsome package. Of course, I would move anybody for the right deal, for the for for a good package that's going to move me forward. So uh, they you know, it's it's only being responsible to listen. What I do think there's so much negativity attached to him because he was in a slump at the end, and he he showed some frustration Okay, he's human, you know. I think the main reason we're hearing is name, and I don't know, maybe a lot of this talk. Who knows, maybe it's uh, it'll light a fire under him and he'll he'll get over some of those frustrations and you know, put together six good months. But I am no rush to trade Alec Baum. I think he's a very good player. But you know it's in coming on any good front office to listen and see what what what's going to come back in a deal. But you know, Todd, you were talking about how long it takes to put together a deal and on on your on your fantasy football team, you're a whiz. But Holiday deal, you know, that Roy Halliday deal. I mean, we covered it. Rubin was working on that deal the summer before. But no, actually like two springs before, because didn't you go up to J. P. Richardi and the GM and the Blue Jays a couple of years prior and said, hey, if you ever moved Roy Halliday, make sure. So that's like two or three years in the making.

00:16:59
Speaker 3: I mean, and that was the same sort of thing I think with when you start talking about the deal that we ended up making for Cole Hamil's and talking to John Daniels the Texas Rangers at the time. I mean he had added, you know, real interest in him for a long time. So I mean, you just some could happened come together really quickly, and some just you know, sort of brew and they get to the point where they you know, they come to fruition.

00:17:23
Speaker 1: What do you think, Todd of you know, the value of a give me your take on the value of an Alec Bohm or Ranger as far as uh, well, yeah, you know.

00:17:34
Speaker 2: It's funny because you you kind of you mentioned it, which is Alec Bohm's getting mentioned a lot. And I feel like a lot of people are thinking, oh, the Phillies aren't happy with him, like you said, because of the slump, because he got benched in game two. He's he's slamming helmets and whatnot. I mean, you know, Chase, Chase Lettley broke a lot of helmets. He just did it in the tunnel or in the in the clubhouse when nobody could see it. But but but you're right, it's I feel like Alec Bohm's name is getting mentioned a lot, not because he slammed a couple helmets and he got benched. It's because if you're looking to make a trade with the Phillies, you know, you know, you're not getting Harper, you're not getting Turner, you're not getting wheel Er, you're not getting Nola. But Alec Boem would be available, and he's pretty cheap. You think he's projected to make a little over eight million dollars next season, and he's got two more years of team control, which is huge. So same thing with you know, Ranger Swarz. He's got one year left on his deal. I think he's got some valley because he's an All Star. He's started, he's he's pitched out of the bullpen, he's you know, he's gonna make around nine million dollars. So he's also affordable. So I think those guys that are mentioned it doesn't necessarily sarily mean Jim, like you said that, the Phillies are like, we got to listen, we're trade. We got to trade Boone. We've got a trade ranger. You know, if we can trade, we want to trade Crawford as well, or Aiden Miller whatever. It's like, No, these are the players that these are the players that teams actually think they can get and they would want. That would make sense. You're not going to go out and trade for Taiwan Walker, you know you're not. You would how Schwarbur would be valuable for some team. But you know, if you're Dave Dombrowski, you know you're gonna get as much bang for your buck, I guess, and get what you need to get in return.

00:19:08
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a matter of we want to trade this guy. No, the objective is we want to get better as a ball club, and sometimes that means parting with a good player to possibly get another good player back that could do different things for your ball club or improve a flaw.

00:19:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's interesting about the whole Alec Bohm thing is that we've talked about this, but they really need guys who can make contact and use the whole field. Well that's what he kind of does. He's one of their better hitters. Like you're basically eliminating or taking you know, a pretty good quality hitter.

00:19:43
Speaker 1: Now.

00:19:43
Speaker 3: I know he struggled in the playoffs and all that other business that happens. Everybody else struggled too, unless we forget so, I mean, I mean, the reality of it is, this is one of the better all around hitters gap to gap, line to line, makes good contact, put together good bat sees a lot of pitches, swings it, strikes. He does strike out some, but not a lot, I mean compared to some of the other guys in the lineup. So it's it's a it's difficult to part with the guy. And that's exactly what you're sort of looking for in a hitter. And uh, and so I know he's got a ton of value and if there's no way that they make a deal with that, that would be involving him unless they can't. They sort of have to win the deal. They sort of have to win the deal in order to move a guy like that.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: All right, go around the diamond, Go around the diamond, starting behind the plane, and tell me who is tradeable?

00:20:41
Speaker 2: Oh boy, wow, I mean, I guess you could trade JT.

00:20:44
Speaker 1: Real mute. You could.

00:20:46
Speaker 2: He's in the last year of his deal, right. Uh, he's had a down year, but he's still considered one of the better catchers in baseball. Now, I think there's enough free agent catchers in the market that you could kind of piece meal it together. I don't know if I would do that necessarily, but you know he's tradable, right, I mean on a last year of.

00:21:03
Speaker 3: His deal, he's tradable. He's tradeable.

00:21:05
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're going to get a lot for him.

00:21:09
Speaker 3: I don't know if you're gonna get the value. I don't know if you're gonna get the value of what he's going to bring to the table for the team. So he's not somebody I would necessarily trade because you've got to replace the guy you're going to place him with Mark Shawn, Right. Yeah, you don't even know if I can stay on the field for a month.

00:21:24
Speaker 1: So we've we've you know, talked to the value. There might not be what you need to move him. First base, you can't trade dot contract.

00:21:32
Speaker 3: No, he's going nowhere.

00:21:34
Speaker 1: Second base.

00:21:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's somebody that's not mentioned a lot. But I mean Bryson's stock to me, he's got what threes eligible for arbitration first time this year, projected to make about three and a half million in arbitration according to Fangrafts three more years. He won't become a free age until after the twenty twenty seventh season. But you don't hear him mentioned as much as Boem. He didn't have his I mean, he had a down year, got more control.

00:21:56
Speaker 1: I think he's really capable of improvement. He's showing better. He's a very good defender.

00:22:02
Speaker 7: So you know, if I'm a team, like if I'm any team that's a sort of building and rebuilding, Man Bryson Stott, I'm dying.

00:22:13
Speaker 2: Man, what about like the Brewers they lose lose Willied. I mean a team that needs a shortstop for instance. You know there's a lot of talk about how there's no shortstops on the market this year compared to the years past. It's Willie Thomas and not much else. Man Bryson and Stott would be kind of anstry. I'd call Dave and go, hey, you know what do you what do you think it would take to get him? But you like to maybe throw him over at shortstop?

00:22:32
Speaker 3: I don't know possibility certainly. I mean, hey, I would trust brighton stop that lest we forget, he was the shortstop when they won you know, the National League exactly shortstop.

00:22:46
Speaker 1: I don't think that the shortstops difficult to trade. He's own so much money, he's got so many years, and I just don't see the huge value anybody in the outfield, so it's third base and second base. You're you know, going around the diamond or your two areas of right.

00:23:01
Speaker 3: A couple more yeah, a couple more years are on Cassianos. It's a lot of money. He's been a productive player. But I mean, I don't know. I don't know if you're going to get the again, if you move the player, if you're going to get the value that's necessary unless you get somebody to pick up the entire tab and then you can you know, utilize that money to do something else with it. I just don't know. I mean, again, that's part of the creativity of being a creative GM. But but again, he was one of the more consistent players all year last year and it sort of saved them for a long time when other guys were going down.

00:23:33
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk ranger. Okay, I think we all agree that his second half decline probably would give the front office pause about an extension this winter. It probably cost him some money. It may have indeed been life changing for him. What about if your a rival GM, how much risk do you see there in possibly acquiring him with a year to go? But also that shakey second half? How do you weigh all that, Rubiny.

00:24:04
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I guess I'm closer to him and know him a little bit more. But I got to believe that this is a guy. If I am on the other side and trying to acquire, I would try to make a run at this guy. And for a couple of different reasons. One, I know there's some danger in the health. But I mean, think about what other teams have done, like with Tyler Glass. Now, they gave him a boatload of money, and this guy was never pitched more than one hundred and twenty innings or whatever the hell it was. And you're talking about a guy who is going to be pitching for a contract. He does not have the big money yet. He's gonna be arbitration eligible this year. He's gonna make a nice piece of change, But the big money's coming when he becomes a free agent. And when he does become a freeative, he puts together a year where he wins fifteen to eighteen or to twenty games and stays healthy and pitches one hundred and seventy to two hundred innings, he's going to make a boatload of money.

00:24:58
Speaker 1: Well, if he has that, I want him here this year.

00:25:01
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. That's that's that that's the difficulty in moving a guy like that because he's pitching for the big money and if he wants to then I would love to have him on a one year deal. Think about you know, we talk about this all the time. Nothing wrong with a one year deal, It doesn't matter what it is. And so you know, and that's basically what you have in Ranger Suarez and the ability and he has the ability to do a couple of different things. Even if he falters and he gets hurt or whatever, you can bring him back and put him in a pen. I mean, he's done it. And and so he's got some versatility. Obviously you want to pay him and play him as a starter, but my goodness, you know, he's got some he's got some pedigree in him. He's got some history and.

00:25:40
Speaker 2: Some postseason success as well. So if you're a team team that is looking to think you're a piece away, maybe not a piece away, but you know what I'm saying, a guy that they can you know, he's not going to shrivel up in a big situation. Rangers the guy and he just you know, every every time he goes out there. Even even in the against the Mets, he pitched competitively with after looking terrible really the last month of the season in the regular.

00:26:03
Speaker 1: Season, significant price tag coming back in a trade. So I think he's another one of those listen guys that I just I don't know if they can get what they need to get because it has to be in the back of their mind that this is his free agent platform year and boy, he could turn it on. You can really help you.

00:26:26
Speaker 2: It's call and Davis talked so much about the five starter spot and how it really killed it's filling half.

00:26:32
Speaker 1: So how do you.

00:26:33
Speaker 2: Feel that now you know you trade Rangers, that does Ranger help you get Garrett Crochet?

00:26:37
Speaker 3: Maybe? I don't know why that you know the Whites.

00:26:38
Speaker 2: It depends what the package would be for the White Sox, but that wouldn't necessarily make any sense. Maybe, But but yeah, who's feeling who's filling that spot because Andrew Painter can't pitch both spots.

00:26:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, And additionally, I know they're not thinking this way because they're thinking they're going to be a contender. But listen, if you know, all hell breaks loose and they have multiple multiple injuries, and they get to the trade headline next year in twenty twenty five, that guy Rajor Suarez, if he's healthy and pitching, okay, I don't know that there's a better pitcher that might be a helpful at that time. So you know there's a ton of value with that too. I would not move this guy unless unless, like you said, unless you winning the deal. I would certainly not move Ranger.

00:27:20
Speaker 2: And you have Brandon Marsh and Johann Rojas have been mentioned in moving with one.

00:27:24
Speaker 3: Of those guys obviously under control players. Brandon Marsh probably has a higher ceiling as an all around player. I think he's a good player, but he hasn't really taken the next step forward. A lot of strikeouts. You know, there's I like Brandon. I just feel like he's a guy that they sort of have to figure out where they can where can they improve, And I think left field centerfield is a place where they can improve the club.

00:27:49
Speaker 2: What about what about prospects? In what condition? Were you trade in Andrew Painter and Aiden Miller? Again, you know Andrew Painter was off limits to the trade deadline. Dave did not want to move him. I don't know about Aiden Miller. But just talking again to people, you guys have heard the same thing. Aiden Miller might be the best Phillies position player prospects since at least Chase Utley, going back at least twenty years or more, and that'd be tough to trade.

00:28:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Painter, they're not trading Painter. You can just tell why everything they say, the way they've treated him, and what he could be, they're not trading Painter. It's not even worth talking about. Looking you just did in the Arizona Fall League. Wasn't any picture of the year out there?

00:28:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's not saying much because there's not much pitching out there. I mean, you know, he's pretty great. He's really special. Man. He's got a chance to be really special.

00:28:46
Speaker 1: There's no chance there and Miller, you know, I guess you'd keep your ears open, but I think it would be very difficult. Crawford did. Oh yeah, but you listen on everybody because it's about one of the world's You think somebody can help you win the World Series. You got to do the deal right exactly.

00:29:04
Speaker 3: One of the pieces of difficulty for moving guy like Miller is that one he sort of has the profile of the player that they're looking for. The guy that doesn't strike out a lot, has good basically hitting is back to ball skills, you know, good swing decisions, all that stuff. And he's young, and he's got a chance to I know, he's away because prospects or prospects, I get it, but he has a chance to be that guy. Number one.

00:29:27
Speaker 1: He plays He plays short and third, which you know could be in flux in the next year or two.

00:29:31
Speaker 3: Right. And so the other part of that is that, you know, I mean to me, you've got some guys who are going to be on big numbers contracts, and they're going to be in the mid thirties soon, and then they're gonna be in the late thirties soon, and then you know, so their production is gonna you know, it's gonna work, you know, converse to you know, to their value of their contracts. And so you need young players who you feel can fill in roles that when you start losing some of that production out of those big contracts, he needs people to pick it up, especially when John Middleton says he wants several of those trophies back exactly right.

00:30:11
Speaker 1: You need you need that type of payroll balance. You need to be mixing, mixing in the lower salary as as your other guys get more and more expensive, and that's how you keep turning it.

00:30:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's easy to say, just keep spending guys and just hold on, you know, don't worry about that. But you have to have some of those young guys come up. What didn't wasn't Paul Owens. They said, you have to want to have two guys every year from your farm system come up and make contributions to kind of maintain the health of the of the system.

00:30:40
Speaker 3: He used to say, if you had one and a half players that was on average one and a half players a year who had impact on your major league team, then you're then you're doing a good job in your system. It's probably ring probably still rings true.

00:30:52
Speaker 1: What did you say about pitching Ruber, Like you needed eight or ten to get.

00:30:56
Speaker 3: You need fifty of them.

00:31:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the attrition rate is so.

00:31:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just so tough, especially now you know there's so you know, I mean, they're limiting innings and all that kind of stuff. Guys are going down. The velocities are so high that they're breaking down at a ridiculous rate. And so it's not it's no longer you need like six or seven. Now it's like you need you know, nine to twelve starting right, which is crazy, but that's reality.

00:31:25
Speaker 2: Well, I think like in twenty eleven the Phillies have that was like, you guys use like seven starters that year. It was an insane at the moment, Yeah, it was. It was like seven or eight maybe, and every year since then it's been eight or more, and it's usually been in the double digits of number of starters used. So I remember, Andrew Painter is probably not going to be up until mid season because he can't go out and throw one hundred and eighty ings. So you're gonna you need two guys, you know, if assuming well Ranger comes back, assuming Ranger comes back, and you need somebody to fill a fifth spot until Andrew Painter comes up, if he comes up. So it's funny because we've talked about these guys and it's like, I wonder who. We've talked about all the reasons why they're attractive, we talked about all the reasons why they might not be traded, why would be difficult to trade those players, But they're gonna have to trade one of those guys or two of those guys, right, I mean you would think, would you guys be surprised if you know, there wasn't a big trade that was made at some point, Yeah, I'd be.

00:32:24
Speaker 1: Surprised with not trade because they have holes they need to fill, and with the payroll climbing and you know, butting up against the third tax threshold, it's gonna have to as you tweak this team, it's gonna have to be a mix of trades and free agent signings. And they where their peril is they just can't do all free agent signings.

00:32:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's gonna be Uh, things will start picking up soon. You know, There's some some things coming up in the next week, in the next couple of weeks that will maybe get the ball rolling on some signings and stuff. In fact, I'm going to run through this real quick. So tonight, Tuesday night, six pm Eastern is the date that teams have to put players on the forty man roster to protect them from the Rule five draft. The Phillies right now, I think have thirty seven players on the forty man So we think, Mick Abel, right, we think and Moissey's Chasse are the two most likely guys to get put on. They could put a third guy on there. That could be there's a host of guys that they could pick pitchers, position players or whatever. But that's tonight six pm. Put guys on the forty man protect them from the rule five and then Friday night eight pm Eastern. I've canceled my Friday night plans, guys, because it's the tender deadline. So tender and really I think the only Philly player that probably will be non tendered it could be non tendered as Austin Hayes. I mean, Dave has really drops some serious hints that you know, we don't know what gonna do it Austin Hayes yet, So that indicates to me that he's he's in the mix there to get non tendered. You know, I think everybody else that's in there, Garrett Stubbs is on there. They could figure out a deal to keep him in the system if they wanted to, I guess. But most of those guys will be back. So you got those two things could open some things up, right, Guys getting non tendered.

00:34:19
Speaker 3: You never know, man, I love that non tender date because you can come up with a Jason Werther or two.

00:34:25
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, that's right.

00:34:28
Speaker 1: Names from other other You know, you're gonna have a bunch of free agents, new free agents, right, That's an interesting way to spend a Friday night waiting for the non tenders. Rubin, on the other hair will be out in Old City having underloin watching.

00:34:48
Speaker 5: Exactly right.

00:34:49
Speaker 3: And actually Friday night, believe it or not, I'm going to be honoring l A a lot is going to enter some.

00:34:57
Speaker 1: Hall of fame.

00:34:59
Speaker 3: Nice aactly what it is? But he said, yeah, he's entering, But I think the Philadelphia Broadcaster is hall of fame. Oh cool, be honored. So I'll get a chance to honor mister Larry Anderson. He's been a true joy and he made a great move by not accepting my offer to become our pitching coach. That's right, smart, smart move. That's that worked that well for him? It did? It did? Uh?

00:35:24
Speaker 1: Then?

00:35:24
Speaker 2: Well, so we'll be back later later this week, maybe some maybe the Phillies have made something go happen by then. If not, though there's plenty more to talk about. We could talk about the Hall of Fame ballot based BBWA today released his twenty twenty five Hall of Fame ballot. There's four returning Phillies, Bobby Bray, Jimmy Rewnds, Chase Le, Billy Wagner. Billy Wagner felt just short last year. This is his tenth and final year ofgibility. And then Wednesday night the nl Cy Young is announced and Zach Wheeler as a finalist for that. I think Chris Sale is gonna win.

00:35:55
Speaker 3: It, I do. Yeah, that's gonna suck good. Yeah, I think is where I think wheel should get it.

00:36:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think I think it's probably gonna be Chris. It would be an upset if if Zach, I think edged out Chris Sale. But I think I think Zach is worthy of course. So yeah, So we'll be back later this week. We talked a lot of trades. Now they just got to make some give us something to write about, give us something more to talk about.

00:36:18
Speaker 3: Let me make sure I get this right. Broadcast Pioneers of Philadelphia Hall of Bay.

00:36:23
Speaker 2: All right, cong congrats to Larry.

00:36:27
Speaker 3: La.

00:36:28
Speaker 5: La.

00:36:29
Speaker 1: La should be in the UH. He's in the People Hall of Fame too.

00:36:33
Speaker 2: He is all time good guy man.

00:36:34
Speaker 3: We love La.

00:36:35
Speaker 2: We love la All right, guys, We'll see you later.

00:36:38
Speaker 3: Smell snite yep.

00:36:40
Speaker 2: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, Follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Rubens analysis before, during, and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Rate four, WYP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Find Jim at all pH l y dot com. Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies Beat newsletter, and MLB Network