Podcast Extra: Ask Me Anything with John Kempf - April 9, 2026

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All right. So, first question

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here is from Dennis.

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Could you please explain the

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basic difference between the

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intended use of a biological

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versus

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the intended use of a

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biostimulant?

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I know the lines are often

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blurred, but I'm thinking about

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the concept whereby more is not

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better.

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All right, Dennis.

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And Dennis also has a follow -up

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question here, but I'll start

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with this question first.

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So,

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it's

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worth creating a distinction

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saying there is a regulatory

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framework and

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then there's practical

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application framework.

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There are certain regulatory

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frameworks for what gets called

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a biostimulant,

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and I think generally many

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biologicals,

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unless they are registered for

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disease control or something

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like that, many biologicals

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are called biostimulants from a

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regulatory perspective.

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It's interesting that that

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wasn't always the case, and

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that's why there's this

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historical language

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shift.

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So the

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way that I think about,

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maybe

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I'll say it this way.

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I think of biologicals and

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biostimulants as being in

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several distinct categories.

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I'm just going to run through

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this mentally.

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First, there is a biological

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inoculant

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for the rhizosphere,

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for the soil.

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Second, there is a biological

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inoculant that is an appropriate

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fit for plant foliage.

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Sometimes a

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single product can overlap and

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be an appropriate fit for both,

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but there are also distinct

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microbes that are best or that

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are exclusive only to soil, say

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mycorrhizal fungi for example,

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or exclusive to

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leaf foliage like phytosanitary

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bacteria and others.

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variety of different species

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that are

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only effective when applied,

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or that are only colonized and

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live on plant leaf surface as

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far as we know,

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or as far as I understand right

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now. So there are those

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different groups of microbial

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inoculants in two distinct

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categories. One is for plant

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foliage application, one is for

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soil and rhizosphere

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application.

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And then you have

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biostimulants.

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And

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here in this particular use

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case, I'm trying to describe

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this, I'm going to

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say biostimulants other than

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inoculants, other than living

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microbes.

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So these might be stimulating

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materials such as humic

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substances, such as seaweeds,

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such as amino acids and

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organic acids of all types and

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on and on the list goes.

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From a practical application

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perspective,

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I tend to

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categorize those

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in terms of plant biostimulant

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or microbial biostimulant.

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You have some of these

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biostimulant products

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which produce a very strong

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plant response and others which

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produce a very strong microbial

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response.

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And again, you have a few that

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are cross -categories that do

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both.

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And the reason I'm creating this

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distinction is because the

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way we design our products and

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our nutrition programs at

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Advancing Ecoagriculture

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is you get

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the most effective synergistic

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effects when you grow cross

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-domain and you create this

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synergistic stack

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that covers each of those

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domains, that covers each of

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those modules, if you will.

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And you could even create

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further distinctions in the case

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of the soil microbiome.

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You could talk about fungal

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inoculants versus bacterial

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inoculants. You could speak

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about fungal biostimulants

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versus bacterial biostimulants

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versus protozoa biostimulants.

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And what

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is unique about

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biological agriculture versus

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the historical

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or recent history, shouldn't

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call it historical, but the

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contemporary agriculture of

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today,

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is that when you're working with

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chemistry, it's

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relatively uncommon to

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get geometric effects

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where

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one plus one equals something

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more than two.

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It doesn't happen often if

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you're using soluble ions and

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using chemistry fertilizer, if

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you're using ammonium sulfate,

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urea, what have you.

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The only place that that really

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happens if you use those soluble

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ions in conjunction with plants

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to treat plants and not soil.

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So in many cases you can put on

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these soluble fertilizers as

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a plant treatment and you're

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harnessing the photosynthetic

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engine and you produce a

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disproportionate response.

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But when we're talking about

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soil application, it's not

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common to produce this

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disproportionate response with

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fertilizers.

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And it can be,

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I don't want to say it's easy,

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but it's also not that difficult

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to create

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a disproportionately large

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response with biology.

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Our observation has been that

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the greatest success occurs when

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you stack things together from

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different categories and you

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create these synergistic stacks.

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So if you have a

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let's say a bacterial inoculant

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plus a fungal inoculant

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plus a bacterial and fungal

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biostimulant

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plus a plant biostimulant.

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So you now have

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you've now touched all five of

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those different categories

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and

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Again, sometimes you have some

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products which are fairly cross

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categories, such as, let's say,

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fulvic acid, for example.

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But when you touch all of those

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categories and you create this

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synergistic stacking effect,

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now you have a much greater

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probability in biological

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systems of producing this

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disproportionate response, this

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geometric response where

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plus one is something very

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different from two.

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It can

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be 11,

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it can be 15, it can be five.

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It's unexpected results.

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And so that's the way that I

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think about

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biologicals versus

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biostimulants.

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Dennis

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has a follow -up question.

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Could cover crops be treated

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with revenant charge

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or soil primer as a method of

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fall application?

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And the answer is for

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sure not soil primer.

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I don't know. We haven't tried

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either of those as a seed

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treatment.

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I would much prefer the use of

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seed flare and biocode gold.

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My reservation,

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revenant charge maybe, but we

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have no experience with it.

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So I have a lot of hesitation

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around that when I think based

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on what I know and understand

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about its various mechanisms and

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modes of action.

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Revenant Charge with the sugar

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content is just too sticky.

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It'll create sticky seed and

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everything else that's a mess

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that you don't even want to deal

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with.

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But also,

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the microbiome that is native on

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the seed coat and within the

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seed,

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we don't want to...

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It's not harmful to add to that

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with BioCoat Gold or to enhance

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that with Seed Flare.

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I don't want to mess that up too

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much by adding sugar to it.

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So Revenant Charge doesn't

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contain sugars.

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And I'd be less concerned about

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that than I would be about

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Rejuvenate,

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but I don't think a seed

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treatment is the best fit for

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it. I would prefer to use seed

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flare as a seed treatment and

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then do a soil broadcast

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application of Revenant Charge

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or soil primer.

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Question from Dave Hobson, a

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couple of questions.

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Our planter is set up to put

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starter nitrogen on top of the

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ground two inches off the row.

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Will this be far enough from the

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seed to avoid having nitrogen

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interference with the roots in

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that critical one to three week

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period of ear and kernel row

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development with irrigation?

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Or does this need to be

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reconfigured to place that

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nitrogen in a true two by two

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configuration to ensure

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placement is off the seed and

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avoid the early nitrogen

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exposure?

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Dave, it depends a little bit on

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your soil.

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When you think about the

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nitrogen application on top,

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I don't know your context, but

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if you have sandy soil,

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as you could imagine, and you

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put on irrigation or rainwater,

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the nitrogen is, it is going to

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diffuse out in an upside down V

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a little bit, but it's mostly

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going to go relatively straight

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down.

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If you have heavier soil, then

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yes, you get a lot of sideways

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diffusion and

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distribution.

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And, excuse me,

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I do think it would be valuable

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to go down a couple of inches.

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to be below the seed or parallel

297
00:08:45,819 --> 00:08:46,619
to the seed.

298
00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:50,199
The second question,

299
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,940
the past two years we have used

300
00:08:53,940 --> 00:08:56,460
10 gallons of liquid 28 with 5 %

301
00:08:56,460 --> 00:08:57,759
of the mix being molasses and 5

302
00:08:57,759 --> 00:08:59,240
% corn steep liquor per

303
00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:01,680
acre out the back of the planter

304
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:02,480
as our starter.

305
00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:04,419
What is your recommendation

306
00:09:04,419 --> 00:09:06,600
given the comments on UAN or

307
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:07,919
ammonium sulfate for the sulfate

308
00:09:07,919 --> 00:09:08,719
part of the starter?

309
00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:11,769
So the UAN is a good material.

310
00:09:12,639 --> 00:09:14,000
And I think that's a good

311
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,500
material that's well placed at

312
00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:16,299
that point.

313
00:09:17,330 --> 00:09:18,450
I would consider,

314
00:09:18,789 --> 00:09:20,110
you could either liquefy

315
00:09:20,110 --> 00:09:21,430
ammonium sulfate or you can use

316
00:09:21,430 --> 00:09:22,409
ammonium thiosulfate.

317
00:09:22,909 --> 00:09:25,049
Either one of those can be a

318
00:09:25,049 --> 00:09:26,090
good sulfur source.

319
00:09:26,450 --> 00:09:28,049
Ammonium thiosulfate is probably

320
00:09:28,049 --> 00:09:28,849
the easiest and the most

321
00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:29,830
straightforward to add to that

322
00:09:29,830 --> 00:09:30,629
mix.

323
00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:32,639
And you just add in enough to

324
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,480
get a 9 to 1 or

325
00:09:34,919 --> 00:09:36,159
a 10 to 1 nitrogen to sulfur

326
00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:36,959
ratio.

327
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:40,529
The third question relates to

328
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,700
the second 40 pound,

329
00:09:43,059 --> 00:09:44,840
40 unit application at side

330
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,340
dress, you mentioned using urea,

331
00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:47,299
is that correct?

332
00:09:47,299 --> 00:09:48,099
Yes,

333
00:09:48,330 --> 00:09:50,720
I do prefer to use urea for that

334
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:51,559
second application.

335
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:54,779
And then the follow -up question

336
00:09:54,779 --> 00:09:56,679
is, the melted urea won't give

337
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,940
the same response soil applied.

338
00:10:02,279 --> 00:10:03,460
I'm interpreting your question

339
00:10:03,460 --> 00:10:05,519
here, I think if you're asking

340
00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:09,159
The melted urea won't produce

341
00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:11,059
the same plant response if it's

342
00:10:11,059 --> 00:10:12,419
applied to the soil as it would

343
00:10:12,419 --> 00:10:13,320
apply to the plant.

344
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:14,759
Yes,

345
00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:16,799
it will produce the same

346
00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:17,599
response

347
00:10:17,769 --> 00:10:20,269
or even bigger response when

348
00:10:20,269 --> 00:10:21,629
applied to the soil compared to

349
00:10:21,629 --> 00:10:22,429
liquid 28.

350
00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:24,539
So there's two possible

351
00:10:24,539 --> 00:10:25,620
interpretations of that question

352
00:10:25,620 --> 00:10:26,419
there, and I tried to answer

353
00:10:26,379 --> 00:10:27,179
both of them.

354
00:10:28,299 --> 00:10:30,230
So the follow -up question is,

355
00:10:30,309 --> 00:10:31,169
so what is your recommendation

356
00:10:31,169 --> 00:10:31,969
for the side dress?

357
00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:34,139
My recommendation is for urea

358
00:10:34,139 --> 00:10:35,019
for the side dress.

359
00:10:35,899 --> 00:10:38,620
I prefer urea rather than liquid

360
00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:39,460
28 or 32.

361
00:10:40,850 --> 00:10:42,730
We see bigger crop responses

362
00:10:42,730 --> 00:10:43,529
from that.

363
00:10:43,909 --> 00:10:45,629
And I

364
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,639
would, again, add thiosulfate to

365
00:10:49,639 --> 00:10:50,439
that

366
00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:52,049
or a form of sulfur of some

367
00:10:52,049 --> 00:10:52,849
type,

368
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:54,789
along with the carbohydrates and

369
00:10:54,789 --> 00:10:55,589
the carbon and

370
00:10:56,009 --> 00:10:57,009
molybdenum. You also need to

371
00:10:57,009 --> 00:10:58,029
include molybdenum in that mix,

372
00:10:58,110 --> 00:10:59,090
by the way. You need to put in

373
00:10:59,090 --> 00:10:59,889
at

374
00:11:00,139 --> 00:11:01,299
least a pint per acre of rebound

375
00:11:01,299 --> 00:11:02,099
molybdenum.

376
00:11:02,389 --> 00:11:04,129
And this is something that I

377
00:11:04,129 --> 00:11:05,049
can't really...

378
00:11:05,870 --> 00:11:06,909
I didn't perhaps emphasize

379
00:11:06,909 --> 00:11:07,809
enough in

380
00:11:08,309 --> 00:11:09,250
some of the webinars that I've

381
00:11:09,250 --> 00:11:10,110
done recently on hydrogen

382
00:11:10,110 --> 00:11:11,850
management, but molybdenum

383
00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:14,210
is the enzyme cofactor for the

384
00:11:14,210 --> 00:11:15,330
nitrate reductase enzyme.

385
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:16,990
It's required by both soil

386
00:11:16,990 --> 00:11:18,629
biology and by plants.

387
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:21,319
And it dramatically improves

388
00:11:21,319 --> 00:11:23,139
your nitrogen use efficiency of

389
00:11:23,139 --> 00:11:24,940
the crop when you have adequate

390
00:11:24,940 --> 00:11:25,819
molybdenum levels.

391
00:11:26,669 --> 00:11:28,289
So that's a fairly critical

392
00:11:28,289 --> 00:11:30,750
application. Every nitrogen

393
00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:31,970
application should

394
00:11:32,539 --> 00:11:34,019
include rebound molybdenum.

395
00:11:37,269 --> 00:11:38,450
Question here from Steve

396
00:11:38,450 --> 00:11:39,250
Schultz.

397
00:11:39,330 --> 00:11:41,330
We have some very sandy soils

398
00:11:41,330 --> 00:11:42,470
with organic matter less than

399
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:43,549
one and a half that

400
00:11:43,889 --> 00:11:45,330
has potassium levels less than

401
00:11:45,330 --> 00:11:46,309
100 parts per million.

402
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:48,460
We have historically been using

403
00:11:48,460 --> 00:11:50,039
potassium chloride with beef

404
00:11:50,039 --> 00:11:52,000
compost to supplement because we

405
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,580
have fairly high removal rates

406
00:11:53,580 --> 00:11:55,580
as well with either silage or

407
00:11:55,580 --> 00:11:56,379
forage.

408
00:11:57,009 --> 00:11:58,370
What is the best method and

409
00:11:58,370 --> 00:11:59,350
amount of potassium

410
00:11:59,350 --> 00:12:00,590
supplementation for a corn

411
00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:02,570
silage crop going forward using

412
00:12:02,759 --> 00:12:04,580
your regenerative methods?

413
00:12:05,289 --> 00:12:06,409
I don't own the license to them,

414
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:07,269
just to be clear.

415
00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:12,190
We've been advised to stop

416
00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:13,269
potassium applications,

417
00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:16,519
but I am worried about our soil

418
00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:18,139
being able to mineralize enough

419
00:12:18,139 --> 00:12:20,580
potassium to keep plants healthy

420
00:12:20,580 --> 00:12:21,379
and sturdy.

421
00:12:21,830 --> 00:12:23,190
We did use limited amounts of

422
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:25,450
foliar potassium acetate last

423
00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:26,649
year, but don't have enough

424
00:12:26,649 --> 00:12:28,049
quantified results to make a

425
00:12:28,049 --> 00:12:28,970
decision. This is pivot

426
00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:29,769
irrigated ground.

427
00:12:30,649 --> 00:12:32,110
Also on the same ground, we will

428
00:12:32,110 --> 00:12:33,909
try to graze standing corn this

429
00:12:34,149 --> 00:12:35,190
fall and winter with the fall

430
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:37,090
cow -calf pairs, trying to seem

431
00:12:38,019 --> 00:12:39,200
Scheme, my supplementation

432
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,379
strategy, we were thinking of

433
00:12:40,379 --> 00:12:41,659
using a split row planter with

434
00:12:41,659 --> 00:12:43,779
sunflowers to provide protein as

435
00:12:43,779 --> 00:12:45,259
well as building an understory

436
00:12:45,259 --> 00:12:46,919
of hairy veg. Any advice on what

437
00:12:46,919 --> 00:12:48,059
you can grow with the corn

438
00:12:48,059 --> 00:12:49,480
without seriously suppressing

439
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:50,279
yields?

440
00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:51,679
All right, two different

441
00:12:51,659 --> 00:12:52,459
questions there.

442
00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:52,959
I'll come back to the corn

443
00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:53,719
question,

444
00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:55,120
but potassium applications.

445
00:12:56,759 --> 00:12:57,620
So I

446
00:12:58,450 --> 00:13:01,190
think you are correct to have

447
00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:02,710
reservations about

448
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,940
removing potassium applications

449
00:13:05,940 --> 00:13:07,500
on very sandy soils.

450
00:13:08,340 --> 00:13:10,180
You didn't provide what your CEC

451
00:13:10,180 --> 00:13:10,980
levels are.

452
00:13:11,620 --> 00:13:13,860
But if you have potassium levels

453
00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:15,139
that are less than 100 parts per

454
00:13:15,139 --> 00:13:15,939
million,

455
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:17,950
many sandy soils just simply

456
00:13:17,950 --> 00:13:19,409
don't have large amounts of

457
00:13:19,409 --> 00:13:20,850
potassium and they don't

458
00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:21,930
mineralize it very well.

459
00:13:23,309 --> 00:13:25,990
So you didn't give your

460
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:27,750
application rates of your

461
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:28,870
historical potassium chloride

462
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:29,669
application.

463
00:13:30,419 --> 00:13:31,860
but we have

464
00:13:33,669 --> 00:13:35,570
both the pricing of potassium

465
00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:36,909
sulfate and potassium chloride

466
00:13:36,909 --> 00:13:39,230
varies. It's not always perfect

467
00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:41,440
analog one to the other.

468
00:13:42,789 --> 00:13:43,990
But we ran into this scenario

469
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:45,570
where we

470
00:13:45,879 --> 00:13:46,679
were

471
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,460
given this idea that we need to

472
00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:51,940
replace potassium sulfate with

473
00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:53,559
potassium chloride on a pound

474
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:54,539
-for -pound potassium

475
00:13:54,539 --> 00:13:55,440
replacement basis.

476
00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:57,320
That made the potassium sulfate

477
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,259
look very expensive.

478
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,639
So this is now going back, I

479
00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:01,840
don't even know the exact time

480
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,240
frame, but probably 15 plus

481
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,039
years ago,

482
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:06,549
we started experimenting with

483
00:14:06,549 --> 00:14:07,929
instead of replacing potassium

484
00:14:07,929 --> 00:14:08,729
sulfate,

485
00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:10,029
or excuse me, replacing

486
00:14:10,029 --> 00:14:10,870
potassium chloride with

487
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:12,629
potassium sulfate on a pound for

488
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:14,210
pound basis of potash,

489
00:14:14,889 --> 00:14:16,350
we instead started replacing it

490
00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:17,149
dollar for dollar.

491
00:14:18,269 --> 00:14:19,629
And wouldn't you know it,

492
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:21,629
if you replace potassium

493
00:14:21,629 --> 00:14:23,070
chloride with potassium sulfate

494
00:14:23,419 --> 00:14:25,500
on a dollar for dollar basis,

495
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,440
In many cases, historically,

496
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,299
you're ending up with putting on

497
00:14:29,299 --> 00:14:30,919
in the neighborhood of about 30

498
00:14:30,919 --> 00:14:33,000
percent or so less pounds of

499
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:33,960
potassium with

500
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:35,379
the potassium sulfate.

501
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,240
And yet

502
00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,240
we almost always

503
00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:42,649
in our historical data, it's

504
00:14:42,649 --> 00:14:43,930
been some time since I looked at

505
00:14:43,930 --> 00:14:45,049
this data or thought about it.

506
00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:46,029
But from

507
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:49,419
memory, I would say greater than

508
00:14:49,419 --> 00:14:50,419
90 percent of the field

509
00:14:50,419 --> 00:14:51,740
situations that we observe, we

510
00:14:51,740 --> 00:14:53,620
got a yield response, a positive

511
00:14:53,620 --> 00:14:54,980
yield response from switching

512
00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:56,399
from potassium chloride to

513
00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:57,299
potassium sulfate.

514
00:14:57,919 --> 00:14:59,080
even though we were putting on

515
00:14:59,080 --> 00:14:59,879
less potassium,

516
00:15:00,299 --> 00:15:01,700
fewer pounds of potash.

517
00:15:02,319 --> 00:15:03,159
So that would be my

518
00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:03,959
recommendation.

519
00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:06,360
And then the

520
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,899
foliar potassium acetate

521
00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:10,960
can be a good material.

522
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,419
We also have our Holo -K at AEA,

523
00:15:14,539 --> 00:15:15,339
which

524
00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:17,250
works in some settings and some

525
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:18,710
contexts. I don't know if this

526
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:19,669
is the right one for it.

527
00:15:20,769 --> 00:15:22,669
But foliar

528
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,669
plants do respond generally very

529
00:15:25,669 --> 00:15:27,090
positively to foliar potassium

530
00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:27,889
acetate.

531
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:29,840
And depending on the soil and

532
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,980
the context, potassium sulfate

533
00:15:31,980 --> 00:15:32,899
might also be a fit.

534
00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:36,509
Potassium sulfate to the soil is

535
00:15:36,509 --> 00:15:37,669
probably going to be your lowest

536
00:15:37,669 --> 00:15:40,250
cost and greatest

537
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,879
plant response would be my

538
00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:42,679
guess.

539
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:48,019
Actually, let me just finish

540
00:15:48,019 --> 00:15:49,220
that thought before I go on to

541
00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:50,019
the next one.

542
00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:51,519
The reason for my last comment

543
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:53,500
is because if you have very

544
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:54,679
sandy soil with limited

545
00:15:54,679 --> 00:15:55,639
potassium supply,

546
00:15:56,309 --> 00:15:58,330
The crop is going to need

547
00:15:58,330 --> 00:16:00,009
substantial poundage

548
00:16:00,509 --> 00:16:03,529
and there isn't the same

549
00:16:03,529 --> 00:16:04,830
degree of

550
00:16:05,299 --> 00:16:07,539
efficiency gains to be gained

551
00:16:07,539 --> 00:16:08,339
with

552
00:16:09,419 --> 00:16:10,240
potassium

553
00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:13,870
on light sandy soil as there is

554
00:16:13,870 --> 00:16:15,289
on heavier soil of soil

555
00:16:15,289 --> 00:16:16,730
application versus foliar.

556
00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:18,480
On heavier soil,

557
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,399
I think this research was

558
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:21,940
originally done by Patrick Brown

559
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,019
in

560
00:16:24,490 --> 00:16:26,080
California and I'm

561
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,200
The exact numbers are escaping

562
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,319
me right now, but I want to say

563
00:16:30,319 --> 00:16:31,940
he was reporting in the

564
00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:33,000
neighborhood of a two and a half

565
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:33,799
to three pound

566
00:16:34,370 --> 00:16:35,690
equivalency. That

567
00:16:36,190 --> 00:16:38,450
one pound of potassium applied

568
00:16:38,450 --> 00:16:40,430
foliar was the equivalent of two

569
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:41,250
and a half to three pounds

570
00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:42,110
applied to the soil.

571
00:16:43,539 --> 00:16:44,919
That math does change a little

572
00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:46,019
bit based on soil type.

573
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:47,740
Some soils can deliver potassium

574
00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:48,659
much more efficiently than

575
00:16:48,659 --> 00:16:49,960
others. And on your soil,

576
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:51,799
if you have light sandy soil,

577
00:16:51,899 --> 00:16:53,879
you do need a minimum

578
00:16:54,319 --> 00:16:56,379
physical poundage in quantity of

579
00:16:56,379 --> 00:16:57,179
potassium.

580
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,659
All right, coming on, moving

581
00:17:02,659 --> 00:17:04,599
back to the corn question,

582
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,460
I would suggest that you look,

583
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,240
without going into too much

584
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,039
detail on this,

585
00:17:09,630 --> 00:17:10,869
look at the research that has

586
00:17:10,869 --> 00:17:12,890
been done by Bob Recker in Iowa,

587
00:17:13,049 --> 00:17:14,210
by Lauren Steinlogge,

588
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:16,349
by Jason Malk in Indiana,

589
00:17:18,619 --> 00:17:21,289
Stock Cropper, Zach Smith in

590
00:17:21,289 --> 00:17:22,950
Iowa. There's a number of people

591
00:17:22,950 --> 00:17:26,420
who are experimenting with wider

592
00:17:26,420 --> 00:17:28,140
row spacing, either doing double

593
00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:30,220
60s, seven -inch rows, 60 inches

594
00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:31,019
apart.

595
00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:34,140
The short version is they

596
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:37,049
are growing corn in wider row

597
00:17:37,049 --> 00:17:38,009
spacing, and there have been

598
00:17:38,009 --> 00:17:39,289
lots of experimentations with

599
00:17:39,289 --> 00:17:40,769
different populations and

600
00:17:40,769 --> 00:17:41,569
sizing, but they're growing a

601
00:17:41,569 --> 00:17:43,049
wider row spacing with

602
00:17:44,259 --> 00:17:47,220
a larger population within that

603
00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:48,019
row or

604
00:17:48,420 --> 00:17:49,220
set of rows.

605
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,420
And that allows enough sunlight

606
00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:54,500
to move down through that they

607
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:55,779
can grow cover crops, they can

608
00:17:55,779 --> 00:17:56,579
grow forages.

609
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:57,720
And

610
00:17:57,410 --> 00:17:58,589
there's

611
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,440
a number of people who've been

612
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,539
doing really great work in this

613
00:18:01,539 --> 00:18:02,460
space, but they're essentially

614
00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:04,000
producing a full corn crop

615
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:06,930
with limited to no yield drag.

616
00:18:08,049 --> 00:18:08,990
And in some cases,

617
00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:11,059
even seeing,

618
00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:13,299
I know Ed

619
00:18:13,710 --> 00:18:15,390
Bass from Bass Hybrids spoke

620
00:18:15,859 --> 00:18:17,119
at an event

621
00:18:17,869 --> 00:18:19,130
We spoke at an event together in

622
00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:20,269
Iowa here a couple weeks ago and

623
00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:21,470
he was describing how they're

624
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:22,750
consistently seeing a yield

625
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:24,309
response, not a yield drag, but

626
00:18:24,309 --> 00:18:25,829
they're seeing a yield response

627
00:18:26,369 --> 00:18:28,150
consistently from cover crop

628
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:29,430
incorporation into wide row

629
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:30,230
spacing corn.

630
00:18:31,210 --> 00:18:32,809
So that's definitely something

631
00:18:32,809 --> 00:18:33,990
to take a look at.

632
00:18:37,339 --> 00:18:38,279
Question here from Leon.

633
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,380
I grew up in a family greenhouse

634
00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:41,180
business.

635
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,859
We're considering getting back

636
00:18:42,859 --> 00:18:44,099
into owning and managing a

637
00:18:44,099 --> 00:18:45,039
greenhouse operation.

638
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:48,069
One of my main concerns getting

639
00:18:48,069 --> 00:18:49,349
back into this occupation is

640
00:18:49,349 --> 00:18:50,529
disease and pest management.

641
00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:51,869
Was wondering if any of your

642
00:18:51,869 --> 00:18:52,990
information has practical

643
00:18:52,990 --> 00:18:55,029
solutions that are applicable in

644
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:55,970
horticultural greenhouse

645
00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:57,309
environment for disease and pest

646
00:18:57,309 --> 00:18:58,849
management and or prevention?"

647
00:18:59,990 --> 00:19:00,789
Leon,

648
00:19:01,089 --> 00:19:03,069
the short answer is yes.

649
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:05,509
Years

650
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:08,950
ago, I did quite a bit of work

651
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:10,509
on developing a potting media

652
00:19:11,329 --> 00:19:13,750
to grow very

653
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,440
high quality

654
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:17,740
transplant seedlings and

655
00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:21,640
vegetable seedlings that didn't

656
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:22,859
have all of the disease

657
00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:23,859
susceptibility, pest

658
00:19:23,859 --> 00:19:24,659
susceptibility,

659
00:19:25,009 --> 00:19:26,849
that were already loaded with

660
00:19:26,849 --> 00:19:27,890
microbial inoculants,

661
00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:29,470
that

662
00:19:29,450 --> 00:19:32,089
had appropriate nutrient ratios,

663
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:33,529
weren't loaded up with excess of

664
00:19:33,529 --> 00:19:34,849
nitrogen and excess of potassium

665
00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:35,649
and so forth.

666
00:19:36,890 --> 00:19:39,589
And that went quite well.

667
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:41,029
We don't really advertise it

668
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:41,829
very widely.

669
00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:44,289
But we do still have that

670
00:19:44,289 --> 00:19:45,190
potting media and make it

671
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:45,990
available.

672
00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:46,829
And we still have

673
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:48,509
growers that use it in very

674
00:19:48,509 --> 00:19:49,309
large volumes.

675
00:19:49,809 --> 00:19:50,890
Azure Standard, for example,

676
00:19:50,970 --> 00:19:52,250
uses it to produce all of their

677
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:53,049
vegetable seedlings.

678
00:19:54,099 --> 00:19:55,480
And so

679
00:19:56,559 --> 00:19:57,359
I

680
00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,759
spent a lot of time working with

681
00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:01,960
media formulations and thinking

682
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,119
about nutrition management in a

683
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,079
greenhouse context and

684
00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:04,879
environment.

685
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,319
So there's a few thoughts.

686
00:20:06,460 --> 00:20:07,259
One is

687
00:20:07,869 --> 00:20:09,849
the traditional media is

688
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:12,670
saturated with potassium and

689
00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:13,630
often with nitrogen.

690
00:20:14,250 --> 00:20:16,190
that produces all kinds of plant

691
00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:17,450
challenges. And it doesn't have

692
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:18,569
nearly enough calcium and

693
00:20:18,569 --> 00:20:19,789
phosphorus and trace minerals

694
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:20,990
are almost entirely ignored.

695
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:23,299
So we addressed all of those

696
00:20:23,299 --> 00:20:24,779
things with a different media

697
00:20:24,779 --> 00:20:25,579
design.

698
00:20:26,809 --> 00:20:28,390
And of course, when you start

699
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:29,410
adding things to media,

700
00:20:29,890 --> 00:20:31,390
it rapidly becomes much more

701
00:20:31,390 --> 00:20:32,190
expensive.

702
00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:34,680
But also, all of a sudden we had

703
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,680
media that had built in

704
00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:38,750
nutrient reserves and energy

705
00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:39,730
reserves. There was no longer

706
00:20:39,730 --> 00:20:41,230
the need to add time release

707
00:20:41,230 --> 00:20:42,710
fertilizer like Osmocote and so

708
00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:43,950
forth. And we had this extended

709
00:20:43,950 --> 00:20:44,789
release

710
00:20:45,349 --> 00:20:47,250
where we were able to grow very

711
00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:49,009
large flowers or strawberries

712
00:20:49,009 --> 00:20:50,849
for months and months at a time

713
00:20:50,849 --> 00:20:52,170
without additional external

714
00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:53,470
fertilizer applications because

715
00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:54,430
there was this inherent

716
00:20:54,430 --> 00:20:55,789
biological fertility that was

717
00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:56,809
held within the media.

718
00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:59,200
But then, of course,

719
00:21:00,109 --> 00:21:02,089
the other consideration is that

720
00:21:02,089 --> 00:21:04,109
in a greenhouse environment, it

721
00:21:04,109 --> 00:21:06,680
is so easy to supplement within

722
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,980
the irrigation water,

723
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:09,579
within the watering system.

724
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,079
and also within the spray

725
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:11,879
system.

726
00:21:12,089 --> 00:21:13,990
The reality is we have much

727
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:15,250
better tools available today.

728
00:21:15,269 --> 00:21:16,470
I don't know how long ago it was

729
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:17,269
that you were in the greenhouse

730
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:17,909
space,

731
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:19,619
but we have much better tools

732
00:21:19,619 --> 00:21:21,039
available today from a disease

733
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:22,240
control and insect control

734
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,980
perspective with biology

735
00:21:23,980 --> 00:21:25,299
management and nutrition

736
00:21:25,299 --> 00:21:27,339
management than we did even five

737
00:21:27,339 --> 00:21:28,139
years ago.

738
00:21:29,009 --> 00:21:29,809
We have,

739
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,819
in the context of disease

740
00:21:32,819 --> 00:21:33,619
management,

741
00:21:34,579 --> 00:21:36,359
we now have a product called

742
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:37,159
Pinion

743
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:39,599
that has actually been tested

744
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:41,119
extensively this last winter in

745
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,240
the greenhouse environments on

746
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,640
all kinds of houseplants and

747
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:46,970
all different types of

748
00:21:47,529 --> 00:21:48,769
horticulture production.

749
00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:50,269
A number of different operations

750
00:21:50,269 --> 00:21:51,190
across the country have been

751
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:51,990
trying it.

752
00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:53,980
And here's

753
00:21:55,059 --> 00:21:56,039
a material that's completely

754
00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:56,839
benign.

755
00:21:57,099 --> 00:21:58,519
It's registered as a biocontrol,

756
00:21:58,619 --> 00:21:59,839
but it's not a pesticide in the

757
00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:02,359
classical sense of hydrocarbon

758
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,759
-based pesticides.

759
00:22:05,309 --> 00:22:06,109
And

760
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:08,930
it's

761
00:22:09,369 --> 00:22:10,269
proving to be completely

762
00:22:10,269 --> 00:22:12,109
effective at disease control.

763
00:22:14,569 --> 00:22:16,690
The reality is there are not

764
00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:17,970
many people yet in the

765
00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:18,890
horticultural space

766
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:21,230
that I'm aware of that have

767
00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:22,690
really gone down the distance of

768
00:22:22,690 --> 00:22:23,509
figuring this out

769
00:22:23,849 --> 00:22:26,130
on scale for horticultural

770
00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:26,930
production,

771
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,359
but it is absolutely possible.

772
00:22:32,940 --> 00:22:33,740
There's a question here from

773
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:34,500
Mike.

774
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:37,430
I've been implementing the

775
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:39,049
Nitrogen Use Efficiency Protocol

776
00:22:39,049 --> 00:22:40,589
for a few years now, and I've

777
00:22:40,589 --> 00:22:42,089
also been using the Haney Soil

778
00:22:42,089 --> 00:22:43,769
Test on a bimonthly basis.

779
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:47,009
This past season, I applied 190

780
00:22:47,009 --> 00:22:48,670
units of synthetic nitrogen up

781
00:22:48,670 --> 00:22:49,630
front, broadcast,

782
00:22:50,650 --> 00:22:51,809
After using the nitrogen

783
00:22:51,809 --> 00:22:53,089
efficiency protocol with the

784
00:22:53,089 --> 00:22:55,069
mindset that if I was successful

785
00:22:55,069 --> 00:22:56,170
in having the microbes

786
00:22:56,740 --> 00:22:58,680
convert this nitrogen into a

787
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,359
complete protein, then there is

788
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,599
no benefit in side dressing,

789
00:23:03,579 --> 00:23:05,200
what I stumbled upon was my

790
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,660
total available nitrogen reading

791
00:23:06,660 --> 00:23:08,279
on the Haney soil test showed I

792
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:09,920
only had 40 units of available

793
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,240
nitrogen from start to finish.

794
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,799
This reading never changed

795
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:14,940
throughout the whole season.

796
00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:18,039
My hypothesis was that this

797
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:19,339
nitrogen was converted to a

798
00:23:19,339 --> 00:23:20,180
complete protein,

799
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,680
bound to carbon,

800
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:24,059
and was thus insoluble yet still

801
00:23:24,059 --> 00:23:25,480
available and the Haney test was

802
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,279
not picking it up.

803
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,720
I witnessed no signs of nitrogen

804
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,900
deficiency throughout the whole

805
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:30,700
season.

806
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:32,799
The one caveat I'm taking from

807
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:34,039
all of this is that I can use

808
00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:35,660
the Haney soil test to show

809
00:23:35,660 --> 00:23:37,539
whether or not I was successful

810
00:23:37,539 --> 00:23:38,920
in having the applied nitrogen

811
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,500
converted to a complete protein.

812
00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:42,630
The one question I have is

813
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:43,789
whether this would also be true

814
00:23:43,789 --> 00:23:45,009
if it was an amino acid or the

815
00:23:45,009 --> 00:23:45,990
ammonium form of nitrogen.

816
00:23:48,829 --> 00:23:49,629
Wow,

817
00:23:49,650 --> 00:23:51,509
Mike, there's a lot to unwrap

818
00:23:51,509 --> 00:23:52,309
here.

819
00:23:52,930 --> 00:23:53,849
Lots of question marks.

820
00:23:54,369 --> 00:23:55,470
So my understanding is that the

821
00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:56,690
ammonium form of nitrogen would

822
00:23:56,690 --> 00:23:57,769
show up on the Haney analysis.

823
00:23:58,730 --> 00:24:00,210
So I think that answer to your

824
00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:01,630
question is, to your last

825
00:24:01,630 --> 00:24:02,430
question, there is no.

826
00:24:03,769 --> 00:24:05,289
And the question about whether

827
00:24:05,289 --> 00:24:06,730
amino acids are picked up on the

828
00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:08,009
Haney analysis, that's really a

829
00:24:08,009 --> 00:24:08,809
question for Rick Haney.

830
00:24:09,049 --> 00:24:10,910
I don't know. I think the answer

831
00:24:10,910 --> 00:24:12,309
is yes. In fact, I'm quite

832
00:24:12,309 --> 00:24:13,430
confident the answer is yes,

833
00:24:14,269 --> 00:24:17,250
but the Haney analysis details

834
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:18,769
are not my domain of expertise,

835
00:24:18,769 --> 00:24:20,049
so I would defer to Rick on

836
00:24:20,049 --> 00:24:20,849
that.

837
00:24:22,109 --> 00:24:23,589
But I, yeah, I have lots of

838
00:24:23,589 --> 00:24:24,910
questions about your observation

839
00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:26,109
and your experience.

840
00:24:26,750 --> 00:24:27,549
What

841
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,299
were soil moisture levels like?

842
00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:31,009
Did you have periods of

843
00:24:31,009 --> 00:24:32,309
saturated soils?

844
00:24:32,410 --> 00:24:33,549
Did you have extended periods

845
00:24:33,549 --> 00:24:34,750
where the soils were really dry?

846
00:24:35,259 --> 00:24:36,180
What were the moisture levels

847
00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:38,579
like when you pulled your soil

848
00:24:38,579 --> 00:24:39,759
samples for hane analysis?

849
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:42,200
Because this is,

850
00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:43,640
the approach that you're taking

851
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,640
is an

852
00:24:46,769 --> 00:24:47,569
interesting one.

853
00:24:47,589 --> 00:24:48,750
I would suggest that you can

854
00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:50,990
still, if you applied 190 units

855
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:51,789
of N,

856
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,420
I think that is,

857
00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:55,150
it would be interesting to

858
00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:56,289
understand how

859
00:24:56,819 --> 00:24:57,940
much of that you still have left

860
00:24:57,940 --> 00:24:58,920
over in the soil profile,

861
00:24:59,339 --> 00:25:00,339
and if there are perhaps other

862
00:25:00,339 --> 00:25:01,539
soil analysis that can reveal

863
00:25:01,539 --> 00:25:02,339
that.

864
00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:04,430
It'd be interesting to know what

865
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:05,230
your

866
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:05,990
crop

867
00:25:06,309 --> 00:25:07,109
contained,

868
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:09,089
how much, how many pounds of

869
00:25:09,089 --> 00:25:10,029
nitrogen were in the crop.

870
00:25:11,349 --> 00:25:12,730
What we've been, as we've been

871
00:25:12,730 --> 00:25:14,650
working with foliar applications

872
00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:17,029
of urea and with

873
00:25:18,849 --> 00:25:20,130
split applications,

874
00:25:20,809 --> 00:25:22,150
side dress and planting and so

875
00:25:22,150 --> 00:25:22,950
forth,

876
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,339
it's not difficult.

877
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,279
We have

878
00:25:27,250 --> 00:25:28,750
I'd say the majority of farmers

879
00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:29,970
and growers who use that

880
00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:32,470
approach are at 0 .75 pounds of

881
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:34,710
nitrogen per bushel of grain or

882
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:35,509
less.

883
00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:38,559
And I don't know the, I'm

884
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:39,720
hesitant to put an exact number

885
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,299
on it, but a significant

886
00:25:41,769 --> 00:25:44,950
number at 0 .65 pounds per

887
00:25:45,259 --> 00:25:46,599
bushel of nitrogen or less.

888
00:25:46,619 --> 00:25:47,419
And that is

889
00:25:47,309 --> 00:25:48,970
pounds of applied nitrogen.

890
00:25:49,509 --> 00:25:50,309
So 0

891
00:25:50,589 --> 00:25:51,970
.75 pounds

892
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:54,210
of applied nitrogen per bushel

893
00:25:54,210 --> 00:25:55,190
of grain or less.

894
00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:00,440
And if you incorporate cover

895
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,660
crops or compost, some of the

896
00:26:01,660 --> 00:26:02,759
additives to the mix we have,

897
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,799
there's also a set that are at 0

898
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:06,279
.5 pounds of

899
00:26:06,589 --> 00:26:08,349
nitrogen that they can credit

900
00:26:08,349 --> 00:26:09,149
from or

901
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:11,500
that they know where nitrogen

902
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,359
credits are coming from.

903
00:26:12,869 --> 00:26:14,809
So I think if you're putting on

904
00:26:14,809 --> 00:26:16,390
190 units of synthetic nitrogen

905
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:17,190
up front,

906
00:26:17,170 --> 00:26:18,930
that to me is still it's a

907
00:26:18,930 --> 00:26:19,730
pretty high number.

908
00:26:19,849 --> 00:26:20,930
I think you can still get that

909
00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:21,869
down quite substantially.

910
00:26:24,849 --> 00:26:25,710
Question from Weston.

911
00:26:25,829 --> 00:26:27,250
How early in a plant's life can

912
00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:28,630
pinyon be applied and how long

913
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:29,829
would that protection last?

914
00:26:30,069 --> 00:26:31,049
Ah, Weston,

915
00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:32,609
love that question.

916
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:37,720
I don't know.

917
00:26:40,309 --> 00:26:43,109
I don't know. We have two

918
00:26:44,569 --> 00:26:46,490
observations now, two field

919
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:48,309
situations where an

920
00:26:49,170 --> 00:26:51,730
application of pinion the prior

921
00:26:51,730 --> 00:26:53,450
year on a perennial crop

922
00:26:54,869 --> 00:26:56,230
appears to have carried over

923
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:57,410
into the following year,

924
00:26:58,259 --> 00:27:00,160
just as changes of the plant's

925
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,920
microbiome, changes of plant

926
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:02,720
expression,

927
00:27:03,299 --> 00:27:05,589
where there appears to be

928
00:27:05,940 --> 00:27:08,599
greater disease resistance the

929
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:09,579
following year after

930
00:27:09,579 --> 00:27:10,500
application. So,

931
00:27:12,089 --> 00:27:13,470
in the case of perennial crops,

932
00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:14,750
it

933
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:18,750
appears that perhaps with pinion

934
00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:19,829
applications, we can actually

935
00:27:19,829 --> 00:27:21,150
change the plants to have some

936
00:27:21,150 --> 00:27:22,789
longer carryover, long -term

937
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:23,690
carryover effects.

938
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:25,930
But the challenge with,

939
00:27:26,329 --> 00:27:27,750
and so the answer of how early

940
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:28,650
can it be applied?

941
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:32,430
It's not a toxic material.

942
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:34,069
You could theoretically apply it

943
00:27:34,069 --> 00:27:34,869
within

944
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,539
a week or two after germination.

945
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:39,779
How long will that last?

946
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:42,309
I don't know. We haven't tried

947
00:27:42,309 --> 00:27:43,109
it.

948
00:27:44,299 --> 00:27:45,480
Haven't tried it quite in that

949
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,279
way.

950
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:47,960
And

951
00:27:48,509 --> 00:27:51,349
the challenge also, and I've

952
00:27:51,349 --> 00:27:52,650
spoken about this in

953
00:27:53,410 --> 00:27:54,569
the presentations I did about

954
00:27:54,569 --> 00:27:55,369
pinion this winter,

955
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,740
but pinion is turning out to be

956
00:27:59,740 --> 00:28:01,579
a very broad spectrum, very high

957
00:28:01,579 --> 00:28:02,539
horsepower material.

958
00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:04,180
However,

959
00:28:06,809 --> 00:28:07,609
because

960
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:09,579
pinions, all of pinions'

961
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,299
different modes of action are

962
00:28:11,299 --> 00:28:13,160
essentially activating the

963
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,859
plant's own pathways, activating

964
00:28:14,859 --> 00:28:15,900
plant immune pathways,

965
00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:17,599
activating genetic pathways,

966
00:28:20,839 --> 00:28:23,619
altering the plant microbiome

967
00:28:23,619 --> 00:28:24,419
expression.

968
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,420
And then of course, there are

969
00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:27,440
all kinds of interrelated

970
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,619
effects there that are occurring

971
00:28:28,619 --> 00:28:29,880
between the plant microbiome and

972
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,180
the plant genetic expression

973
00:28:31,180 --> 00:28:31,980
itself as well.

974
00:28:32,789 --> 00:28:33,769
There's lots of different things

975
00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:35,789
that happen, but all the degree

976
00:28:35,789 --> 00:28:37,289
of effectiveness, the degree of

977
00:28:37,289 --> 00:28:38,089
response

978
00:28:39,309 --> 00:28:41,309
is heavily influenced by the

979
00:28:41,309 --> 00:28:43,150
plant's oxidative stress.

980
00:28:44,650 --> 00:28:47,289
So the greater the exposure to

981
00:28:47,289 --> 00:28:48,329
oxidative stress,

982
00:28:49,509 --> 00:28:52,089
the proportionally smaller the

983
00:28:52,089 --> 00:28:53,589
response to pinion is

984
00:28:53,589 --> 00:28:55,289
theoretically going to be.

985
00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:58,019
This is theoretical, but we

986
00:28:58,329 --> 00:29:00,039
know that there have been

987
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:02,289
instances where one grower

988
00:29:02,289 --> 00:29:05,059
applied pinion and got 10

989
00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:07,579
weeks of protection against a

990
00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:09,180
certain disease on a specific

991
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:09,980
crop

992
00:29:10,089 --> 00:29:12,130
and another grower a few hours

993
00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:12,930
away

994
00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:14,500
needs to put on four

995
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:16,400
applications to get the same

996
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,200
effect that one grower got from

997
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,000
one application.

998
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:20,279
And it's because of the

999
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:22,200
variations in oxidative stress

1000
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,299
that their plants were exposed

1001
00:29:23,299 --> 00:29:24,359
to as a result of

1002
00:29:24,670 --> 00:29:26,210
environment and rainfall and

1003
00:29:26,210 --> 00:29:27,849
what their

1004
00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:29,660
soil was exposed to, their

1005
00:29:29,660 --> 00:29:30,980
degree of soil microbial

1006
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:31,880
recovery and so forth.

1007
00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:33,639
So

1008
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:36,319
I think it's just important to

1009
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:37,940
point out and for us to remember

1010
00:29:37,940 --> 00:29:38,740
that

1011
00:29:39,180 --> 00:29:41,400
your mileage is going to vary.

1012
00:29:42,259 --> 00:29:44,400
And it's kind of this

1013
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,720
interesting catch 22

1014
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:48,630
of the healthier your soil,

1015
00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:51,829
the more robust your microbiome

1016
00:29:51,829 --> 00:29:52,629
and

1017
00:29:52,819 --> 00:29:54,559
the less oxidative stress your

1018
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:56,779
plant is under, the greater the

1019
00:29:56,779 --> 00:29:57,799
response you're going to get

1020
00:29:57,799 --> 00:29:58,599
from pinion.

1021
00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:00,140
So that's a different way of

1022
00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:00,940
saying that

1023
00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:03,200
early on in the transition,

1024
00:30:03,619 --> 00:30:04,700
you're going to need more.

1025
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,039
Theoretically, you might need

1026
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:08,940
more frequent applications to

1027
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:10,039
produce the same effect

1028
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,579
than someone else might need or

1029
00:30:12,579 --> 00:30:13,460
that you might need a year or

1030
00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:14,259
two down the road.

1031
00:30:16,349 --> 00:30:17,430
There's a question here from

1032
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:20,309
Jameson Brown. Hi, Jameson.

1033
00:30:20,490 --> 00:30:22,470
Do potassium silicate foliar

1034
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:24,309
applications provide plant

1035
00:30:24,309 --> 00:30:25,109
available silicon?

1036
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:27,099
I've seen that potassium

1037
00:30:27,099 --> 00:30:28,160
silicate is effective for

1038
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,460
controlling powdery mildew, but

1039
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:30,900
it is unclear if this is because

1040
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:32,200
of the silica improving plant

1041
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,680
health or the high pH directly

1042
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,480
killing the mildew.

1043
00:30:35,390 --> 00:30:37,069
So that would be a good question

1044
00:30:37,069 --> 00:30:38,450
for Field Lark, Jameson, if you

1045
00:30:38,450 --> 00:30:40,349
want to dig deeper into the

1046
00:30:40,349 --> 00:30:41,149
various mechanisms.

1047
00:30:41,349 --> 00:30:42,410
The short answer, as I

1048
00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:43,789
understand it, is that yes, the

1049
00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:45,109
silicon that is in potassium

1050
00:30:45,109 --> 00:30:46,539
silicate is incorporated

1051
00:30:46,539 --> 00:30:48,039
directly into plant cells and

1052
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:48,859
into cell membranes,

1053
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,059
and that is its mechanism for

1054
00:30:52,059 --> 00:30:52,859
effectiveness.

1055
00:30:53,019 --> 00:30:55,059
And also, if I'm not mistaken,

1056
00:30:55,779 --> 00:30:57,700
I think silicon applications

1057
00:30:57,700 --> 00:30:59,180
applied as a foliar in

1058
00:31:00,329 --> 00:31:01,769
the ionic form, such as

1059
00:31:01,769 --> 00:31:02,569
potassium silicate,

1060
00:31:03,619 --> 00:31:05,539
aren't particularly effective at

1061
00:31:05,539 --> 00:31:06,680
being translocated and moved

1062
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:07,759
around inside the plant.

1063
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,720
So,

1064
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,720
It is incorporated into plant

1065
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:11,519
structure,

1066
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:12,579
so technically you could say

1067
00:31:12,579 --> 00:31:13,579
it's plant available, but I

1068
00:31:13,579 --> 00:31:14,759
don't think it moves around very

1069
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:17,250
far from wherever it lands.

1070
00:31:47,289 --> 00:31:48,349
It depends on the problem.

1071
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:52,089
It depends on the problem.

1072
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:54,950
It depends on the degree of

1073
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:56,470
economic response that can be

1074
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:58,089
expected from solving the

1075
00:31:58,089 --> 00:31:58,889
problem.

1076
00:31:59,470 --> 00:32:00,269
So, for example,

1077
00:32:00,769 --> 00:32:01,569
if

1078
00:32:01,509 --> 00:32:03,769
your entire soil systemically is

1079
00:32:03,769 --> 00:32:06,049
low in cobalt or low in selenium

1080
00:32:06,049 --> 00:32:07,210
or low in boron,

1081
00:32:08,009 --> 00:32:09,210
then in

1082
00:32:09,809 --> 00:32:11,910
most cases you produce a large

1083
00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:13,910
enough economic crop response to

1084
00:32:13,910 --> 00:32:15,150
justify treating the entire

1085
00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:17,029
thing and just treating the bulk

1086
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:19,069
soil environment and correcting

1087
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,259
whatever deficiencies exist.

1088
00:32:22,099 --> 00:32:23,099
Same holds true of zinc.

1089
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,779
number of different trace

1090
00:32:24,779 --> 00:32:25,579
minerals.

1091
00:32:26,430 --> 00:32:27,509
But if we're talking about a

1092
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:28,769
calcium application, you have

1093
00:32:28,769 --> 00:32:30,769
high CEC soils, and you're

1094
00:32:30,769 --> 00:32:31,569
growing wheat

1095
00:32:32,819 --> 00:32:33,619
in

1096
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:35,859
Washington or Oregon,

1097
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:37,839
and it takes,

1098
00:32:38,190 --> 00:32:39,789
mathematically, it takes five

1099
00:32:39,789 --> 00:32:42,000
tons of tons or 15 tons of

1100
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,500
limestone to

1101
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:46,740
correct soil pH and calcium

1102
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:47,539
issues,

1103
00:32:48,069 --> 00:32:49,670
then no, of course, it doesn't

1104
00:32:49,670 --> 00:32:50,470
compute.

1105
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:51,910
It doesn't work mathematically.

1106
00:32:52,029 --> 00:32:53,009
So how do you solve that?

1107
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:55,400
In that scenario,

1108
00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:57,240
I would suggest,

1109
00:32:58,650 --> 00:33:00,210
this is a real -world example

1110
00:33:00,210 --> 00:33:01,470
that lots of people experience.

1111
00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:03,519
In that scenario, I would

1112
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:04,319
suggest

1113
00:33:04,589 --> 00:33:06,990
banding applications at planting

1114
00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:08,269
or before planting with a strip

1115
00:33:08,269 --> 00:33:10,549
-till unit if that is feasible

1116
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:11,349
and makes sense.

1117
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:13,509
Because then you can create a

1118
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:16,049
localized zone and that is where

1119
00:33:16,049 --> 00:33:17,170
you produce the economic

1120
00:33:17,170 --> 00:33:18,549
response. So really I would

1121
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:20,009
suggest you should think about

1122
00:33:20,009 --> 00:33:20,990
it in terms of economics.

1123
00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:21,789
What

1124
00:33:22,019 --> 00:33:23,839
produces the economic crop

1125
00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:25,279
response and gives you a pathway

1126
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:26,700
to longer term remediation.

1127
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,380
Last question, what do you

1128
00:33:32,380 --> 00:33:33,619
consider are the most effective

1129
00:33:33,619 --> 00:33:35,279
and practical steps to improving

1130
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,339
soil microbial communities and

1131
00:33:37,339 --> 00:33:38,720
are there any common

1132
00:33:42,029 --> 00:33:43,190
Are there any common myths to

1133
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:43,990
watch out for?

1134
00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:48,640
I could talk about this one for

1135
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,440
a while.

1136
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:51,000
I won't. But what

1137
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,940
are the most effective and

1138
00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:54,319
practical steps for improving

1139
00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:55,119
soil communities?

1140
00:33:55,799 --> 00:33:57,140
Number one is

1141
00:33:57,769 --> 00:34:00,029
plant species diversity,

1142
00:34:00,589 --> 00:34:02,170
plant family diversity.

1143
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:06,839
Soil microbial community doesn't

1144
00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:08,159
thrive well in a monoculture.

1145
00:34:12,179 --> 00:34:13,980
Or maybe a better way to say it

1146
00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:15,019
would be that it becomes very

1147
00:34:15,019 --> 00:34:16,519
specialized in long -term

1148
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:17,719
monocultures, which usually

1149
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,219
isn't associated with optimal

1150
00:34:19,219 --> 00:34:20,739
soil health, at least not from

1151
00:34:20,739 --> 00:34:21,940
an agricultural perspective.

1152
00:34:23,809 --> 00:34:24,610
And so

1153
00:34:26,789 --> 00:34:28,289
plant species diversity,

1154
00:34:29,289 --> 00:34:30,469
I would say, is number one.

1155
00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:32,730
And then you

1156
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,519
can add microbial diversity.

1157
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:37,300
when seeding.

1158
00:34:37,659 --> 00:34:40,019
That is the greatest ROI

1159
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,059
application that

1160
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:44,719
we see consistently across

1161
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,420
almost all types of

1162
00:34:46,420 --> 00:34:47,679
applications. Putting on a

1163
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,780
microbial inoculant at seeding

1164
00:34:49,780 --> 00:34:50,580
is critical.

1165
00:34:52,329 --> 00:34:53,889
And then what are the myths to

1166
00:34:53,889 --> 00:34:54,690
watch out for?

1167
00:34:55,329 --> 00:34:56,130
Well,

1168
00:34:57,550 --> 00:34:58,590
there are two big ones.

1169
00:35:03,809 --> 00:35:05,829
One is—two big ones that I see.

1170
00:35:05,909 --> 00:35:07,329
One of them is targeted towards

1171
00:35:07,329 --> 00:35:09,010
compost tea applications, and

1172
00:35:09,010 --> 00:35:11,429
one of them is towards purchased

1173
00:35:13,090 --> 00:35:13,890
inoculants.

1174
00:35:15,219 --> 00:35:16,019
The

1175
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:17,769
one myth is that

1176
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,539
putting on a purchased inoculant

1177
00:35:20,539 --> 00:35:21,340
at

1178
00:35:21,969 --> 00:35:23,909
small application rates of a few

1179
00:35:23,909 --> 00:35:25,489
pints or a quarter, or actually

1180
00:35:25,489 --> 00:35:28,269
in this case, this myth is also

1181
00:35:28,269 --> 00:35:29,909
extended to compost tea, is that

1182
00:35:29,909 --> 00:35:31,469
whatever you apply out there

1183
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:32,800
is meaningless,

1184
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:34,860
and it's going to be consumed by

1185
00:35:34,860 --> 00:35:36,099
the native soil ecology.

1186
00:35:36,750 --> 00:35:38,090
and microbiology and it will

1187
00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:39,929
disappear in a matter of hours

1188
00:35:39,929 --> 00:35:41,329
or days or weeks and have no

1189
00:35:41,329 --> 00:35:42,130
effect.

1190
00:35:42,949 --> 00:35:43,750
I

1191
00:35:45,019 --> 00:35:45,820
beg to differ,

1192
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:47,980
and I would suggest that the

1193
00:35:47,980 --> 00:35:49,659
evidence also has a different

1194
00:35:49,659 --> 00:35:51,300
perspective because you

1195
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:52,920
look at the

1196
00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:55,409
history of the use of

1197
00:35:55,409 --> 00:35:57,289
mycorrhizal fungi or of the use

1198
00:35:57,289 --> 00:35:58,929
of rhizobium bacteria.

1199
00:35:59,030 --> 00:36:01,010
I mean, it's common industry

1200
00:36:01,010 --> 00:36:02,610
standard practice to

1201
00:36:03,269 --> 00:36:05,369
inoculate legume seeds with one

1202
00:36:05,369 --> 00:36:06,630
single strain of bacteria,

1203
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,080
rhizobium.

1204
00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:10,519
of course, a specific rhizobium

1205
00:36:10,519 --> 00:36:11,539
strain or species that is

1206
00:36:11,539 --> 00:36:12,840
selected for the particular

1207
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:13,640
crop.

1208
00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:16,230
But we put on this application

1209
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:17,030
and

1210
00:36:17,329 --> 00:36:19,329
we expect to see nodulation.

1211
00:36:20,530 --> 00:36:22,150
We consider this visual

1212
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:23,929
confirmation of the inoculation

1213
00:36:23,929 --> 00:36:24,730
being successful.

1214
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:26,170
And we also know that when we

1215
00:36:26,170 --> 00:36:27,829
grow a legume crop in the exact

1216
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:29,929
same soil over multiple cycles,

1217
00:36:30,769 --> 00:36:31,869
that over time the inoculation

1218
00:36:31,869 --> 00:36:33,880
becomes less necessary,

1219
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,699
but still beneficial to the

1220
00:36:36,699 --> 00:36:38,300
point where almost universally

1221
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:39,460
most legume seed is treated

1222
00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:40,260
today.

1223
00:36:41,590 --> 00:36:42,390
So,

1224
00:36:43,389 --> 00:36:45,289
and that's an application of

1225
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,199
tiny amounts of a single species

1226
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:49,500
inoculant that is effective.

1227
00:36:50,269 --> 00:36:51,170
So that's one myth.

1228
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,530
Another myth is,

1229
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:55,600
well,

1230
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,179
I kind of already addressed it

1231
00:36:59,179 --> 00:37:01,019
with the brazobium, but another

1232
00:37:01,019 --> 00:37:01,820
myth is that

1233
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,400
And a purchased inoculant with

1234
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,280
only a few strains cannot be

1235
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,080
successful.

1236
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,139
Rhizobium is Exhibit A.

1237
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,460
Mycorrhizal fungi inoculants are

1238
00:37:11,460 --> 00:37:12,260
Exhibit B.

1239
00:37:12,539 --> 00:37:14,039
There's a number of others.

1240
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,080
Yes,

1241
00:37:14,940 --> 00:37:16,619
single species, single strain.

1242
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:18,200
It's not ideal.

1243
00:37:18,139 --> 00:37:18,940
It's not how nature works.

1244
00:37:19,019 --> 00:37:19,820
Generally, it works in

1245
00:37:19,659 --> 00:37:20,940
consortiums and in communities.

1246
00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:22,519
But single species can be

1247
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:23,760
impactful and they can make a

1248
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:24,820
difference. And products with

1249
00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:26,320
only a few strains in them can

1250
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,340
also be very impactful.

1251
00:37:28,789 --> 00:37:29,590
And then

1252
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:32,250
there's also on

1253
00:37:32,849 --> 00:37:34,010
compost teas,

1254
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:36,289
I think

1255
00:37:38,010 --> 00:37:40,130
Another common myth is,

1256
00:37:40,449 --> 00:37:42,309
and this applies to both compost

1257
00:37:42,309 --> 00:37:45,070
tea and purchased inoculants.

1258
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:48,920
Most compost teas and most

1259
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,519
purchased inoculants do not

1260
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:51,320
address

1261
00:37:51,579 --> 00:37:53,699
95 % of the soil microbiome.

1262
00:37:54,909 --> 00:37:55,710
Why?

1263
00:37:56,179 --> 00:37:57,420
The very simple reason is that

1264
00:37:57,420 --> 00:37:58,920
the majority of the microbiome

1265
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,219
can only be propagated in the

1266
00:38:01,219 --> 00:38:02,960
presence of living plant roots,

1267
00:38:04,659 --> 00:38:06,099
not in a compost pile and

1268
00:38:06,539 --> 00:38:07,340
not in a laboratory,

1269
00:38:08,090 --> 00:38:09,690
unless the laboratory is growing

1270
00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:11,190
plants to propagate microbes.

1271
00:38:11,449 --> 00:38:12,510
And there are some laboratories

1272
00:38:12,510 --> 00:38:13,310
that do.

1273
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,940
That's how biocode gold,

1274
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,679
some of the materials and source

1275
00:38:17,679 --> 00:38:18,880
materials in biocode gold get

1276
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:19,680
propagated.

1277
00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:23,650
So actually growing plants in

1278
00:38:23,650 --> 00:38:25,090
compost piles and doing those

1279
00:38:25,090 --> 00:38:26,349
things. of things as the second

1280
00:38:26,349 --> 00:38:28,130
stage of inoculant development,

1281
00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:29,309
I think, are very important.

1282
00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:39,760
Question here from Thomas.

1283
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,260
I'm breeding squash on less than

1284
00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:42,060
ideal soil,

1285
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,079
sandy and low pH 5 .2.

1286
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,320
Moschata, butternut, etc.

1287
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,099
does well, but Maxima,

1288
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,460
Cucurbita maxima, is

1289
00:38:51,460 --> 00:38:52,860
ridiculously fragile, like

1290
00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:55,000
collapsing post first fruit when

1291
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,280
the soil runs dry.

1292
00:38:57,809 --> 00:38:59,110
Before losing any hopes of

1293
00:38:59,110 --> 00:39:00,349
maxima, I have this special one.

1294
00:39:00,409 --> 00:39:01,929
In 2026, I'm planning to use

1295
00:39:01,929 --> 00:39:03,489
biocode gold and the seeds of my

1296
00:39:03,489 --> 00:39:05,349
composite cross -population to

1297
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:06,829
reveal early in -season

1298
00:39:06,829 --> 00:39:07,949
biological intelligence

1299
00:39:07,949 --> 00:39:08,750
capacities,

1300
00:39:08,929 --> 00:39:09,869
the ability to foster

1301
00:39:09,869 --> 00:39:11,110
partnerships with biology,

1302
00:39:11,989 --> 00:39:13,329
using biocode gold as a

1303
00:39:13,329 --> 00:39:14,449
magnifying glass of those

1304
00:39:14,449 --> 00:39:15,250
capacities.

1305
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:18,269
Do you think it's a correct look

1306
00:39:18,269 --> 00:39:20,070
at biocode gold abilities?

1307
00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:21,530
Um,

1308
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,120
yes.

1309
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,560
Hmm.

1310
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:26,300
Thomas, this,

1311
00:39:27,019 --> 00:39:27,820
I enjoy,

1312
00:39:29,050 --> 00:39:30,429
One of my fascinations of the

1313
00:39:30,429 --> 00:39:31,909
things that I would like to do,

1314
00:39:31,969 --> 00:39:33,090
but will probably never get to

1315
00:39:33,090 --> 00:39:35,489
in this lifetime, is looking at

1316
00:39:35,489 --> 00:39:37,570
plant breeding and the

1317
00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:38,670
opportunities with plant

1318
00:39:38,670 --> 00:39:39,829
breeding. So I

1319
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:41,550
don't know what breeding

1320
00:39:41,530 --> 00:39:43,150
direction you have gone, what

1321
00:39:43,150 --> 00:39:45,090
selection criteria you have been

1322
00:39:45,090 --> 00:39:45,890
selecting for,

1323
00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:47,620
but

1324
00:39:47,519 --> 00:39:50,199
it can be very valuable to look

1325
00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:51,000
at

1326
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:52,820
the ability to colonize with

1327
00:39:52,820 --> 00:39:53,980
biocook goal. I know this is

1328
00:39:53,980 --> 00:39:56,050
something that Bass Hybrids has

1329
00:39:56,050 --> 00:39:56,850
been looking at,

1330
00:39:57,420 --> 00:39:58,220
and they found

1331
00:39:58,889 --> 00:40:00,829
that, to their surprise,

1332
00:40:01,590 --> 00:40:04,250
some varieties didn't show

1333
00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:07,489
good effects of mycorrhizal

1334
00:40:07,489 --> 00:40:08,289
colonization.

1335
00:40:08,699 --> 00:40:09,840
And intriguingly enough,

1336
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,559
this is where we're constantly

1337
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:13,360
learning,

1338
00:40:14,110 --> 00:40:16,489
constantly new things to refine,

1339
00:40:16,590 --> 00:40:17,869
but intriguingly enough, the

1340
00:40:17,869 --> 00:40:19,349
varieties that didn't

1341
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:22,760
form effective colonization with

1342
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:23,780
mycorrhizae, not just

1343
00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:24,820
biocotechol, by the way, but

1344
00:40:24,820 --> 00:40:25,960
also other mycorrhizae that they

1345
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:26,760
tested it on,

1346
00:40:27,610 --> 00:40:29,389
was one of the varieties that

1347
00:40:29,389 --> 00:40:31,269
had the richest native

1348
00:40:31,269 --> 00:40:33,980
microbiome vectored inside the

1349
00:40:33,980 --> 00:40:34,780
seed,

1350
00:40:35,099 --> 00:40:37,139
and that it had its own very

1351
00:40:37,139 --> 00:40:38,219
robust microbiome.

1352
00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:39,440
So there's

1353
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:41,179
lots of interesting things for

1354
00:40:41,179 --> 00:40:42,079
us to keep learning about.

1355
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:45,239
Question here from Mark.

1356
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:47,469
I have a question about frost

1357
00:40:47,469 --> 00:40:49,269
and boron use at a high rate of

1358
00:40:49,269 --> 00:40:50,190
three pounds to the acre.

1359
00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:52,320
I think you were talking about

1360
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:53,199
in a previous podcast.

1361
00:40:54,789 --> 00:40:56,070
Also, we are trialing

1362
00:40:56,070 --> 00:40:57,389
Pseudomonas fluorescens with

1363
00:40:57,389 --> 00:40:58,690
potassium silicate for frost

1364
00:40:58,690 --> 00:40:59,849
protection on turf grass in

1365
00:40:59,849 --> 00:41:00,769
Australia. Do you have any

1366
00:41:00,769 --> 00:41:02,030
suggestions or thoughts in

1367
00:41:02,030 --> 00:41:02,830
regards to this?

1368
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:05,140
I

1369
00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:09,590
think you're on the right track

1370
00:41:09,590 --> 00:41:11,489
with potassium.

1371
00:41:12,139 --> 00:41:13,000
I don't know if potassium

1372
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,340
silicate is the right source.

1373
00:41:14,539 --> 00:41:15,539
Well, let me say it this way.

1374
00:41:15,579 --> 00:41:16,659
I would suggest that in addition

1375
00:41:16,659 --> 00:41:18,079
to potassium silicate, you also

1376
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:18,920
need to make sure that you have

1377
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,139
adequate potassium levels

1378
00:41:21,019 --> 00:41:22,179
nutritionally inside the plant,

1379
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:23,780
which the potassium silicate may

1380
00:41:23,780 --> 00:41:24,639
or may not provide.

1381
00:41:26,070 --> 00:41:27,309
Pseudomonas fluorescens as a

1382
00:41:27,309 --> 00:41:28,829
crystallization or nucleation

1383
00:41:28,829 --> 00:41:30,210
material can

1384
00:41:31,059 --> 00:41:32,119
be interesting to look at.

1385
00:41:32,940 --> 00:41:34,159
I don't have a lot of experience

1386
00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:34,960
with this.

1387
00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:36,550
But why

1388
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,280
do you need frost protection for

1389
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,080
turfgrass?

1390
00:41:44,750 --> 00:41:46,059
That's kind of the first

1391
00:41:46,059 --> 00:41:47,519
question that comes to mind is I

1392
00:41:48,980 --> 00:41:51,980
obviously I have no I have no

1393
00:41:51,980 --> 00:41:53,239
knowledge of your context,

1394
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,559
but maybe it's a tropical grass

1395
00:41:57,559 --> 00:41:58,360
or something like that.

1396
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,320
But usually when I think about

1397
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,639
turfgrass, it can handle

1398
00:42:01,099 --> 00:42:02,280
cold quite readily.

1399
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:03,880
If it's that susceptible to

1400
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,159
frost damage then it's probably

1401
00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:06,440
overloaded with nitrogen would

1402
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,240
be

1403
00:42:07,139 --> 00:42:09,199
my guess, but there's obviously

1404
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:10,460
something that I don't know

1405
00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:11,320
about the situation.

1406
00:42:12,469 --> 00:42:14,949
In terms of boron applications,

1407
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:17,489
the threshold that we're looking

1408
00:42:17,489 --> 00:42:19,210
for is three parts per million

1409
00:42:19,210 --> 00:42:20,269
boron for

1410
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:21,880
a thousand parts per million

1411
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:22,680
calcium.

1412
00:42:23,619 --> 00:42:25,199
And yes, that will substantially

1413
00:42:25,199 --> 00:42:26,579
increase your

1414
00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:28,980
freezing susceptibility.

1415
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:32,650
It's a question here from Daryl.

1416
00:42:32,809 --> 00:42:33,989
How would you transition a

1417
00:42:33,989 --> 00:42:35,309
coastal Bermuda hay meadow from

1418
00:42:35,309 --> 00:42:36,210
synthetic nitrogen to

1419
00:42:36,210 --> 00:42:37,590
biologically supplied nitrogen

1420
00:42:38,219 --> 00:42:39,940
since nitrate fertilizers are

1421
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:41,599
best for vegetative growth?

1422
00:42:42,019 --> 00:42:43,980
Is that the best source to use

1423
00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:46,139
on coastal Bermuda in spite of

1424
00:42:46,139 --> 00:42:46,940
its additional water

1425
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,099
requirements? Water is

1426
00:42:48,099 --> 00:42:48,900
frequently an issue.

1427
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:54,860
Daryl, I've spoken

1428
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:57,920
at several of these webinars

1429
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:58,720
where I've talked about a

1430
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,760
nitrogen application protocol,

1431
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:04,380
and I would treat it similar to

1432
00:43:04,380 --> 00:43:05,180
a corn crop

1433
00:43:05,659 --> 00:43:07,340
in terms of I would bind

1434
00:43:07,969 --> 00:43:09,570
the nitrogen with humic

1435
00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:10,370
substances,

1436
00:43:10,449 --> 00:43:12,070
add sulfur, add molybdenum,

1437
00:43:12,789 --> 00:43:14,170
add some carbon to it,

1438
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,159
and spread it out over time.

1439
00:43:16,750 --> 00:43:18,619
And that process

1440
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,019
And then also in parallel with

1441
00:43:21,019 --> 00:43:22,719
that, use microbial inoculants

1442
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:23,719
that have the ability to fix

1443
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:24,519
nitrogen,

1444
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:26,739
obviously applied separately,

1445
00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:27,659
not in the same tank.

1446
00:43:28,530 --> 00:43:31,099
And that's really the pathway is

1447
00:43:31,099 --> 00:43:32,239
providing an on -ramp for

1448
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,940
biology while you slowly provide

1449
00:43:33,940 --> 00:43:35,219
an off -ramp for the chemistry

1450
00:43:35,219 --> 00:43:36,019
nitrogen.

1451
00:43:37,170 --> 00:43:37,970
And then

1452
00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:39,969
you're in a high temperature

1453
00:43:39,969 --> 00:43:41,230
environment. So the reality is

1454
00:43:41,230 --> 00:43:42,909
whatever form of nitrogen you

1455
00:43:42,909 --> 00:43:44,710
apply, large amounts of it are

1456
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:46,389
going to oxidize and convert to

1457
00:43:46,389 --> 00:43:47,650
nitrate fairly rapidly.

1458
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,000
And I wouldn't

1459
00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:53,579
I don't think it's necessarily,

1460
00:43:53,699 --> 00:43:54,679
I'm trying to think, coastal

1461
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:55,880
Bermuda grass, if I'm not

1462
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,219
mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's a

1463
00:43:57,219 --> 00:43:59,119
C4 photosynthetic pathway plant.

1464
00:43:59,940 --> 00:44:00,880
If that is correct,

1465
00:44:01,219 --> 00:44:02,019
then

1466
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:03,699
it's optimal.

1467
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,800
It's optimal ratio for

1468
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,199
optimal use. and optimal health

1469
00:44:11,199 --> 00:44:12,500
and performance is not going to

1470
00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:14,179
be 100 % nitrate.

1471
00:44:14,380 --> 00:44:15,400
It's more likely to be somewhere

1472
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,340
in the neighborhood of about 60

1473
00:44:16,340 --> 00:44:18,019
to 70 % ammonium and the

1474
00:44:18,019 --> 00:44:18,860
remainder in nitrate.

1475
00:44:19,449 --> 00:44:20,369
And that's of course completely

1476
00:44:20,369 --> 00:44:22,090
disregarding and not considering

1477
00:44:22,090 --> 00:44:23,730
biological nitrogen supply.

1478
00:44:27,619 --> 00:44:28,679
Question here from Carlos.

1479
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:30,639
Farm a pistachio orchard in

1480
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:31,460
Central California,

1481
00:44:32,130 --> 00:44:33,150
Central Valley.

1482
00:44:33,630 --> 00:44:35,230
Soil has extremely high sodium

1483
00:44:35,230 --> 00:44:37,010
and the well water does as well.

1484
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,480
I inject sulfuric acid into the

1485
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,079
well water to lower water pH.

1486
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:42,780
I have also balanced my calcium

1487
00:44:42,780 --> 00:44:43,580
and magnesium.

1488
00:44:44,170 --> 00:44:45,590
It seems as though the sodium is

1489
00:44:45,590 --> 00:44:46,390
still a problem.

1490
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:47,250
Is there a solution to this

1491
00:44:47,250 --> 00:44:48,050
situation? Yes.

1492
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:50,680
Yes, Carlos,

1493
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:51,900
there is a solution.

1494
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:54,300
And this is this is the this

1495
00:44:57,210 --> 00:44:58,849
is obviously, of course, as you

1496
00:44:58,849 --> 00:45:00,849
know, a very common widespread

1497
00:45:00,849 --> 00:45:02,610
shared problem in the region.

1498
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:05,420
So there are there are two

1499
00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:06,960
levels to two types of

1500
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:07,760
solutions.

1501
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:10,980
One is we

1502
00:45:12,449 --> 00:45:13,349
know that there are different

1503
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:14,929
soil additives and soil

1504
00:45:14,929 --> 00:45:16,650
amendments that can help.

1505
00:45:17,019 --> 00:45:19,320
remove and leach sodium out.

1506
00:45:20,929 --> 00:45:21,730
And

1507
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:23,900
there's all kinds of people with

1508
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:25,219
common recommendations to apply

1509
00:45:25,219 --> 00:45:26,679
gypsum. There's common

1510
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:28,239
recommendations to apply humic

1511
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,039
substances.

1512
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:31,130
And then we've experimented

1513
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:33,559
extensively with a microbial

1514
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:35,000
inoculant called Spectrum DS.

1515
00:45:36,329 --> 00:45:37,349
And we get the most,

1516
00:45:37,929 --> 00:45:39,469
the greatest effects when we

1517
00:45:39,469 --> 00:45:40,750
combine all three of those

1518
00:45:40,750 --> 00:45:41,550
things together.

1519
00:45:41,650 --> 00:45:42,889
It's definitely a case of one

1520
00:45:42,889 --> 00:45:44,150
plus one plus one equaling

1521
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:45,150
something more than three.

1522
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,360
If you put on gypsum plus humic

1523
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,659
substances plus Spectrum,

1524
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,039
you get

1525
00:45:51,650 --> 00:45:53,570
a much greater response than you

1526
00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:55,559
do from applying any of those

1527
00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:56,940
products alone or applying them

1528
00:45:56,940 --> 00:45:57,740
at different times.

1529
00:45:59,349 --> 00:46:01,230
So that's one piece that I would

1530
00:46:01,230 --> 00:46:02,469
look at. But then the other

1531
00:46:02,469 --> 00:46:03,429
piece I would look at

1532
00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:07,840
the story was shared with

1533
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:10,320
a grower in your region.

1534
00:46:10,519 --> 00:46:12,090
I don't know if you would care

1535
00:46:12,090 --> 00:46:13,429
to be named or not, so I'll keep

1536
00:46:13,429 --> 00:46:14,429
the name to myself for right

1537
00:46:14,429 --> 00:46:15,230
now, but

1538
00:46:15,849 --> 00:46:17,969
a fairly large vegetable farming

1539
00:46:17,969 --> 00:46:18,989
operation that you would

1540
00:46:18,989 --> 00:46:19,789
immediately recognize.

1541
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:21,510
And

1542
00:46:21,590 --> 00:46:23,909
they were working with green

1543
00:46:23,909 --> 00:46:24,710
cover seed

1544
00:46:24,929 --> 00:46:27,389
to incorporate cover crops.

1545
00:46:27,789 --> 00:46:28,829
They were doing cover crops

1546
00:46:28,829 --> 00:46:30,809
around tomatoes and I

1547
00:46:31,860 --> 00:46:32,960
forget the full spectrum of

1548
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:33,760
their crop lineup.

1549
00:46:33,699 --> 00:46:35,019
I want to say tomatoes and

1550
00:46:35,019 --> 00:46:37,440
peppers and perhaps some melons

1551
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,240
and some other things.

1552
00:46:38,059 --> 00:46:39,199
I'm no longer entirely sure.

1553
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,599
But they grew a diverse mix of

1554
00:46:42,599 --> 00:46:43,840
cover crop species,

1555
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:45,679
eight plus species,

1556
00:46:46,739 --> 00:46:48,960
for two growing seasons, if I

1557
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:49,880
have my story straight.

1558
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:51,830
And I

1559
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:53,570
want to say for two growing

1560
00:46:53,570 --> 00:46:54,449
seasons, I'm not talking the

1561
00:46:54,449 --> 00:46:55,489
entire season. I'm talking they

1562
00:46:55,489 --> 00:46:57,389
grew a single cover crop in the

1563
00:46:57,389 --> 00:46:59,150
winter months between their

1564
00:46:59,150 --> 00:46:59,950
vegetable crops.

1565
00:47:02,489 --> 00:47:04,010
Following the second crop, there

1566
00:47:04,010 --> 00:47:05,369
was a reduction in sodium levels

1567
00:47:05,369 --> 00:47:06,570
following the first crop, and

1568
00:47:06,570 --> 00:47:08,329
there was a further reduction in

1569
00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:09,410
sodium

1570
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,860
by upwards of 80 % in

1571
00:47:13,210 --> 00:47:14,389
the soil following the second

1572
00:47:14,389 --> 00:47:15,190
cover crop.

1573
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,920
And I've spent a lot of time

1574
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,159
talking about and thinking about

1575
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:21,739
quorum sensing and how these

1576
00:47:21,739 --> 00:47:23,000
diverse species of plants

1577
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,579
produce a quorum sensing

1578
00:47:25,579 --> 00:47:27,239
microbiome that can actually

1579
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,780
change soil chemistry and can

1580
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:31,360
change soil nutrient balance.

1581
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,619
So that was quite a remarkable

1582
00:47:33,619 --> 00:47:34,420
response.

1583
00:47:34,769 --> 00:47:35,949
And if you want to dig deeper,

1584
00:47:36,809 --> 00:47:38,670
Carlos, I would suggest having a

1585
00:47:38,670 --> 00:47:39,989
conversation with James Johnson

1586
00:47:40,210 --> 00:47:41,489
in

1587
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,840
Arizona, who has some of the

1588
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,059
most difficult water quality

1589
00:47:46,059 --> 00:47:47,099
that I have ever

1590
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:48,579
observed.

1591
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,719
And he's also had his water

1592
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:52,639
quality looked at by many

1593
00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:53,920
irrigation technicians who've

1594
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:54,940
shared that perspective.

1595
00:47:56,579 --> 00:47:57,760
And he is also growing

1596
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:58,560
pistachios.

1597
00:48:00,380 --> 00:48:02,500
And actually his pistachios in

1598
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:04,360
Arizona in an arid environment

1599
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:05,160
have,

1600
00:48:07,369 --> 00:48:08,489
I almost want to say they're now

1601
00:48:08,489 --> 00:48:09,690
without irrigation, have been

1602
00:48:09,690 --> 00:48:12,309
for several years as a result of

1603
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:13,829
the cover crops and the sheep

1604
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:14,750
grazing and the things that he

1605
00:48:14,750 --> 00:48:16,380
are doing. So I think that would

1606
00:48:16,380 --> 00:48:17,420
be a conversation that would be

1607
00:48:17,420 --> 00:48:18,400
very worthwhile having.

1608
00:48:21,530 --> 00:48:23,550
Question here from Dallas.

1609
00:48:26,539 --> 00:48:28,059
I've observed that even with

1610
00:48:28,059 --> 00:48:29,920
high -quality biologicals, it is

1611
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,380
incredibly difficult to break

1612
00:48:31,380 --> 00:48:33,920
into that established stool and

1613
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,179
re -establish the same high

1614
00:48:36,179 --> 00:48:37,920
-functioning symbiosis we see

1615
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:38,720
when

1616
00:48:38,869 --> 00:48:39,670
planting cane.

1617
00:48:40,849 --> 00:48:42,550
This seems to be a primary

1618
00:48:42,550 --> 00:48:44,809
driver of the raccoon yield

1619
00:48:44,809 --> 00:48:46,309
decline and perhaps a reason why

1620
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:47,809
sugarcane is often left out of

1621
00:48:47,809 --> 00:48:49,010
the regenerative conversation.

1622
00:48:50,139 --> 00:48:51,000
In your experience with

1623
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,199
perennial grasses or multi -year

1624
00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:53,599
systems, how do we solve this

1625
00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:55,179
holy grail of re -inoculating in

1626
00:48:55,179 --> 00:48:56,039
an existing stool?

1627
00:49:00,420 --> 00:49:01,300
Do you

1628
00:49:01,300 --> 00:49:03,980
see

1629
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:06,099
any future in the regenerative

1630
00:49:06,099 --> 00:49:06,900
space for these cropping

1631
00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:07,700
systems?

1632
00:49:09,150 --> 00:49:09,950
Yes,

1633
00:49:10,269 --> 00:49:11,130
there are people who are working

1634
00:49:11,130 --> 00:49:12,170
with sugarcane who have figured

1635
00:49:12,170 --> 00:49:12,970
this out.

1636
00:49:13,809 --> 00:49:14,690
I think your

1637
00:49:15,699 --> 00:49:17,440
observation is correct, but I

1638
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,300
think you're asking the wrong

1639
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:19,100
question, Dallas.

1640
00:49:19,219 --> 00:49:20,179
I think the

1641
00:49:20,820 --> 00:49:22,719
question is not, how can we

1642
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,500
inoculate? How can we re

1643
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:26,039
-inoculate and re -establish the

1644
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:27,139
same high -functioning

1645
00:49:27,139 --> 00:49:27,940
symbiosis?

1646
00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:31,670
The real question is, how can we

1647
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:32,929
keep from losing it in the first

1648
00:49:32,929 --> 00:49:33,730
place?

1649
00:49:34,250 --> 00:49:35,190
That's the question.

1650
00:49:35,710 --> 00:49:36,829
We answer that question.

1651
00:49:36,949 --> 00:49:38,210
We don't need to re -establish

1652
00:49:38,210 --> 00:49:39,010
it.

1653
00:49:39,780 --> 00:49:42,199
And I think the answer,

1654
00:49:43,650 --> 00:49:44,450
well, it depends on the

1655
00:49:44,389 --> 00:49:45,670
operational context, of course,

1656
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:46,630
but

1657
00:49:46,619 --> 00:49:48,690
herbicide and fungicide

1658
00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:50,110
applications play a significant

1659
00:49:50,110 --> 00:49:50,910
role.

1660
00:49:51,820 --> 00:49:52,920
And the

1661
00:49:53,420 --> 00:49:54,860
proportion of sugars that get

1662
00:49:55,139 --> 00:49:56,360
out through the root system to

1663
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,460
sustain biology also plays a

1664
00:49:59,460 --> 00:50:00,260
role.

1665
00:50:00,329 --> 00:50:01,610
But the big role is pesticide

1666
00:50:01,610 --> 00:50:02,410
applications.

1667
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:04,960
If we can change how

1668
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:07,239
we're managing diseases and how

1669
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:08,800
we're managing insects so that

1670
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,699
we get effective, particularly

1671
00:50:10,699 --> 00:50:12,219
diseases, we get effective

1672
00:50:12,219 --> 00:50:13,760
control of diseases with

1673
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,980
nutrition management and we

1674
00:50:14,980 --> 00:50:16,360
reduce fungicide applications or

1675
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:17,559
eliminate fungicide applications

1676
00:50:18,099 --> 00:50:20,019
and we eliminate herbicide

1677
00:50:20,019 --> 00:50:20,820
applications,

1678
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,219
that's the pathway.

1679
00:50:23,429 --> 00:50:25,750
to no longer needing to re

1680
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:27,190
-establish inoculation.

1681
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:32,340
Follow -up question from

1682
00:50:32,340 --> 00:50:33,940
Jameson. How can we treat hard

1683
00:50:33,940 --> 00:50:35,920
water for use in foliar sprays

1684
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:37,239
if we don't have an RO water

1685
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:38,039
purifier?

1686
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:41,039
You have two options.

1687
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:42,400
Option A is to collect

1688
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,200
rainwater.

1689
00:50:43,610 --> 00:50:46,400
Option B is to buy an RO water

1690
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:47,200
purifier.

1691
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:49,489
If you don't have one, get one.

1692
00:50:51,130 --> 00:50:51,930
That's

1693
00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:53,639
how you treat hard water.

1694
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:54,560
I mean,

1695
00:50:54,599 --> 00:50:55,539
sure, there are things you can

1696
00:50:55,539 --> 00:50:57,820
do by adding acidifiers to water

1697
00:50:57,820 --> 00:50:59,079
and things like that, but

1698
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:02,719
the crop response is not the

1699
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,400
same as when you work with clean

1700
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:05,200
water.

1701
00:51:07,139 --> 00:51:08,539
All right, we've got time for

1702
00:51:08,539 --> 00:51:09,639
one more question.

1703
00:51:10,650 --> 00:51:11,450
Got

1704
00:51:15,050 --> 00:51:15,969
a question here from Becky

1705
00:51:15,969 --> 00:51:17,510
Painter. Can you please explain

1706
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:20,090
in greater detail why putting

1707
00:51:20,090 --> 00:51:21,369
too much fresh,

1708
00:51:21,710 --> 00:51:23,469
non -decomposed organic matter

1709
00:51:23,469 --> 00:51:25,510
on top of or mixed into soil

1710
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:27,190
soon before planting ties up

1711
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:28,170
nitrogen and

1712
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,199
causes the burn and how that can

1713
00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:32,000
be prevented?

1714
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,420
Can more nutrients like

1715
00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:35,220
molasses,

1716
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,420
fish, emulsion, or milk be added

1717
00:51:37,420 --> 00:51:39,159
to that mix to increase the

1718
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:40,260
available nitrogen so the

1719
00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:41,400
microbes don't run out?

1720
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:43,539
Is it a carbon to nitrogen ratio

1721
00:51:43,539 --> 00:51:44,340
problem?

1722
00:51:45,769 --> 00:51:46,969
Isn't organic matter good for

1723
00:51:46,969 --> 00:51:48,369
the soil? Is it lack of microbes

1724
00:51:48,369 --> 00:51:49,170
that turn it over?

1725
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:50,840
All right.

1726
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:51,720
So,

1727
00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:58,989
Becky, I wish I knew more or had

1728
00:51:58,989 --> 00:52:00,610
more context for specifically

1729
00:52:00,610 --> 00:52:02,150
what problems and challenges you

1730
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:03,869
are encountering and how you're

1731
00:52:03,869 --> 00:52:04,670
encountering them.

1732
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:05,430
But the

1733
00:52:05,980 --> 00:52:08,380
short answer is there

1734
00:52:10,769 --> 00:52:12,630
are two different things that

1735
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:13,430
can happen.

1736
00:52:14,909 --> 00:52:15,809
One is,

1737
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:17,690
yes, you can have a carbon and

1738
00:52:17,690 --> 00:52:19,309
nitrogen ratio problem where

1739
00:52:19,309 --> 00:52:21,309
let's say if you let rye

1740
00:52:21,309 --> 00:52:22,110
residue,

1741
00:52:22,090 --> 00:52:24,130
let's say rye gets too tall,

1742
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,079
before it's roller crimped.

1743
00:52:26,809 --> 00:52:28,369
And you have a broad carbon and

1744
00:52:28,369 --> 00:52:29,170
nitrogen ratio.

1745
00:52:30,570 --> 00:52:32,690
That broad C to N ratio can

1746
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:35,170
absolutely tie up nitrogen in

1747
00:52:35,170 --> 00:52:35,970
the soil

1748
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,579
as in the process of that

1749
00:52:38,579 --> 00:52:39,960
residue decomposition and in the

1750
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,400
process of root biomass

1751
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,200
decomposition.

1752
00:52:43,139 --> 00:52:44,179
And that can create a nitrogen

1753
00:52:44,179 --> 00:52:46,300
deficiency in the following crop

1754
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:47,100
in the short term,

1755
00:52:48,190 --> 00:52:49,030
at the beginning of the growing

1756
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:49,949
season, right when it's needed

1757
00:52:49,949 --> 00:52:51,250
the most to get things started

1758
00:52:51,250 --> 00:52:52,349
in a healthy manner.

1759
00:52:52,650 --> 00:52:53,789
So that can happen.

1760
00:52:55,139 --> 00:52:56,739
That may be slightly different

1761
00:52:56,739 --> 00:52:57,659
from the question that you're

1762
00:52:57,659 --> 00:52:58,460
asking, though.

1763
00:52:59,010 --> 00:53:00,309
There's another possibility

1764
00:53:00,309 --> 00:53:01,829
which is if you have

1765
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:04,800
fresh,

1766
00:53:04,980 --> 00:53:06,480
if you have narrow carbon and

1767
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,059
nitrogen ratio material, let's

1768
00:53:08,059 --> 00:53:09,480
say you have a lush green cover

1769
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:10,599
crop that's at a vegetative

1770
00:53:10,599 --> 00:53:12,019
growth stage and you incorporate

1771
00:53:12,019 --> 00:53:13,480
it into the soil shallowly

1772
00:53:14,110 --> 00:53:15,510
in the top couple of inches,

1773
00:53:16,780 --> 00:53:19,960
there is a short -term effect

1774
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:20,760
where,

1775
00:53:21,739 --> 00:53:22,679
and this is something I don't

1776
00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:23,579
have a ton of personal

1777
00:53:23,579 --> 00:53:24,380
experience with,

1778
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:27,219
I'm just passing on observations

1779
00:53:27,219 --> 00:53:28,239
and experiences from other

1780
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,039
growers,

1781
00:53:30,780 --> 00:53:32,840
The general consensus is that

1782
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,219
you have two planting windows.

1783
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,519
Either A is you till it and you

1784
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:38,320
plant immediately,

1785
00:53:39,650 --> 00:53:40,450
or B,

1786
00:53:40,690 --> 00:53:42,869
you have to wait to allow some

1787
00:53:42,869 --> 00:53:44,289
of that residue to decompose and

1788
00:53:44,289 --> 00:53:45,090
to break down.

1789
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,460
a period of five to seven days,

1790
00:53:47,539 --> 00:53:48,599
and in some cases longer.

1791
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,599
There is variations based on

1792
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:51,679
what you're incorporating in

1793
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:52,679
soil moisture levels and so

1794
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:53,480
forth.

1795
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,400
But what can happen in that

1796
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:56,239
context is

1797
00:53:57,130 --> 00:53:59,630
you've just incorporated rich

1798
00:53:59,630 --> 00:54:00,730
green organic matter into the

1799
00:54:00,730 --> 00:54:01,530
soil,

1800
00:54:01,659 --> 00:54:03,119
and soil biology, particularly

1801
00:54:03,119 --> 00:54:04,760
bacterial populations, are going

1802
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,219
to consume that very, very

1803
00:54:06,219 --> 00:54:07,019
rapidly.

1804
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:08,559
And so you get this bacterial

1805
00:54:08,769 --> 00:54:10,329
population explosion.

1806
00:54:10,510 --> 00:54:11,469
You essentially, you have

1807
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,579
you have this fermentation that

1808
00:54:13,579 --> 00:54:14,579
occurs in the soil.

1809
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:16,470
And

1810
00:54:16,650 --> 00:54:17,450
that

1811
00:54:17,909 --> 00:54:20,369
rapid digestive process will

1812
00:54:20,369 --> 00:54:23,519
temporarily bind up minerals and

1813
00:54:23,519 --> 00:54:24,320
nutrients.

1814
00:54:24,989 --> 00:54:26,489
And I think this is something

1815
00:54:26,489 --> 00:54:27,949
that Irwin Westers spoke

1816
00:54:28,869 --> 00:54:30,710
about in my podcast interview,

1817
00:54:30,769 --> 00:54:31,570
some of the work that they're

1818
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:32,310
doing in Europe.

1819
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:33,920
There's lots of interesting, if

1820
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,059
this

1821
00:54:36,269 --> 00:54:38,690
effect is concentrated enough in

1822
00:54:38,690 --> 00:54:39,490
a small amount,

1823
00:54:39,909 --> 00:54:40,869
small

1824
00:54:41,210 --> 00:54:42,530
enough volume of

1825
00:54:43,039 --> 00:54:43,940
soil,

1826
00:54:44,730 --> 00:54:46,690
then it will actually,

1827
00:54:47,090 --> 00:54:47,969
first of all, it completely

1828
00:54:47,969 --> 00:54:49,230
changes the microbiome in that

1829
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:50,030
concentrated zone,

1830
00:54:50,699 --> 00:54:52,400
but it will also actively go

1831
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,900
after pests and diseases,

1832
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,579
insect larvae, pupae, eggs,

1833
00:54:58,699 --> 00:54:59,900
nematodes, and so forth.

1834
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,440
It will actively go after pests

1835
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:02,240
in that environment.

1836
00:55:02,969 --> 00:55:04,389
And in that process, it's also

1837
00:55:04,389 --> 00:55:05,949
tying up a lot of nutrition,

1838
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:07,989
not just nitrogen, but calcium

1839
00:55:07,989 --> 00:55:08,889
and other elements that are

1840
00:55:08,889 --> 00:55:10,150
contained within microbial

1841
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:10,950
cells.

1842
00:55:11,710 --> 00:55:14,349
So that is also a process that

1843
00:55:14,349 --> 00:55:15,150
can occur.

1844
00:55:16,539 --> 00:55:18,320
So I want to say thank you to

1845
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,739
all of you for submitting your

1846
00:55:19,739 --> 00:55:20,960
questions, for being here for

1847
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,659
the hour. I hope you've found

1848
00:55:22,659 --> 00:55:24,079
the information valuable and

1849
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:24,880
useful.

1850
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:27,030
And if I didn't get to your

1851
00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:28,010
question or if you have any

1852
00:55:28,010 --> 00:55:29,590
further follow -up questions,

1853
00:55:30,289 --> 00:55:31,090
I

1854
00:55:31,289 --> 00:55:32,929
would say there's two options.

1855
00:55:33,090 --> 00:55:33,890
One

1856
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,000
is sign up for FieldLark.

1857
00:55:36,139 --> 00:55:37,400
Go to fieldlark .ai.

1858
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:40,059
We've developed that AI.

1859
00:55:40,469 --> 00:55:41,489
to be able to answer lots of

1860
00:55:41,489 --> 00:55:42,289
people's questions.

1861
00:55:42,309 --> 00:55:44,010
So please dig into that.

1862
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,139
And you

1863
00:55:46,489 --> 00:55:47,710
can also sign up for our

1864
00:55:47,710 --> 00:55:49,269
newsletter and submit any

1865
00:55:49,269 --> 00:55:50,070
further questions.

1866
00:55:50,349 --> 00:55:52,269
And I'm sure this spring

1867
00:55:52,739 --> 00:55:54,500
season, I'm no longer traveling

1868
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:56,139
as intensely as I did this last

1869
00:55:56,139 --> 00:55:57,280
winter for conference season.

1870
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:58,599
And I'll

1871
00:55:58,940 --> 00:56:00,380
have these Ask Me Anything

1872
00:56:00,380 --> 00:56:01,820
sessions frequently and respond

1873
00:56:01,820 --> 00:56:02,620
to your questions.

1874
00:56:02,539 --> 00:56:03,340
So

1875
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:04,210
thank you all for being here.

1876
00:56:04,650 --> 00:56:06,130
And here's to a great growing

1877
00:56:06,130 --> 00:56:06,930
season.

1878
00:56:06,929 --> 00:56:08,650
May your rainfalls be timely,

1879
00:56:08,949 --> 00:56:11,170
and may diseases and insects go

1880
00:56:11,170 --> 00:56:13,190
to another place that is not in

1881
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:14,349
your field, and may you have a

1882
00:56:14,349 --> 00:56:15,210
happy growing season.

1883
00:56:15,409 --> 00:56:16,210
Thank you all.