Joe Maddon on Rizzo's hangover, Cubs CRAZY pizza party & NEW 2016 World Series stories w/ David Ross

Here we are at the Lovable Reunion Podcast interviewing our coach.
Joe Madams, coach, Anthony's coach, Anthony's plural two.
Time World Series champion one as a manager in the
three World Series, second most winning percentage of Cub's history
behind Frank Chance who ROSSI played for. And I say, Joe,
when you surprised everyone in twenty fifteen with signing with us,
it was the first block of building a championship team
and you literally under your leadership turned the Lovable Loser
franchise into expected World Series contenders. So thank you before
we get started.
But let's give it up for Joe mad Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
there were no players there, are you kidding me? Thank
you Anthony's and that was I remember that so well,
you know, just getting there in the first place. I
really didn't have any CUB tradition built into me. I
was an American leaguer, you know. I came from the Rays,
and Jed and THEO showed up down in your neck
of the woods down here Tallahassee and Navar Beach, and
I was in my RV at Navar Beach and they
come down there and they sit down, we sit down
in the back of my behind my RV on this
little little beach back there, and just start talking philosophically. Right,
and when you.
Had some history with them, I did with interviewing in Boston, Right,
That was many years before.
That was two thousand and four when Tito got the job,
and I really wasn't ready for that job at that time.
I even told them afterwards, you guys made the right choice.
It was a much better choice for me than me
at that particular juncture. But I was the best choice
at that particular juncture. I thought my time with the
Rays really helped me with the planning component of that.
I knew what I wanted. You know, you arrive at
a point in your life where you know what you know.
That sounds dumb, but some people really don't know what
they know. They they're regurgitators. They're always repeating things that
they've heard from somebody else. But by the time I
get to the Cubbies, and even after, I mean even
with the Rays, I knew, I really felt I knew
what it would take to put us into that position.
And of course you have to have great players. Don't
be deceived. I mean, managers are good because the players
are good, and if you have a really good pitching staff,
for even better. And if you have a real closer,
you could be the best manager there is. All that
stuff is part of the gig. But you guys are fabulous.
It was so interesting because the Rays are great. I
love Tampa Bay and we're here right now. But the
tradition of the Cubs walking into Wrigley Field every day.
I would walk in and look up and say thank you,
because I never I never experienced that. Anaheim was great
for a while, you know, I was, but I was
not a manager. And the Rays played at the Troup,
which is cool. But Wrigley Field, I think for me
is the best professional venue in all of sports. I
will go to Europe, all these soccer stadiums, whatever, and
I put Wriggly up against all of them, because on
a daily basis, those people of that ballpark you could play.
I'll shut up in a second, but remember we played
the Indians on a Monday and a makeup game. I
think it was twenty sixteen, makeup Monday at one o'clock
in the afternoon. I think it was Lester versus Clover. Clover.
Forty thousand people insane. It doesn't happen so anyway. Long answer,
but there's so much adrenaline and excitement in that ballpark
every frigging day. And then we have a combination. Now,
these guys are great players, but think of the charisma
of our group. And it started in fifteen, but it
really built into sixteen. But charismatically, you guys are so
cool to be with on a daily basis. And I
was with a bunch of men. I wasn't with a
bunch of kids, you know, And that's really was exciting
to me too. So there's a lot of contributing factors
to that. I was just I was fortunate and happy
to be there because I felt really good about that group. Well,
we mimicked the cool manager.
You are so outside the box and yeah, shaving the
head and spring training, but the shot to the press conference,
and I.
Remember that press conference like you do really well. Rossie
and I had uh we were doing an ESPN car
wash for the playoffs and fourteen going into fifteen. I
remember I remember talking to about our agents. We had
the same agents, and I was like, rossi's what we
need as a young team. And then you came over
and it was like, oh my god, and then we
signed Lester and Rossa. At your press conference, it was,
you know, I think you said, you said something along
the lines unless you can't be here unless we aligned
perfectly with the front office, right, And for a number
of years we did. You aligned perfectly at the front office.
And obviously later on the years, you know, things changed.
A little bit, risk up hitting and offense.
That was that was taxes and me hitting, and those
years were very consistent.
I got to get jab at you every once in a.
While, but there's just I respected you so much from
Afar as a young player. I was twenty one when
I got called up. I was in the big leagues
for four years before you signed, and I remember with
the rays you did, I think it was like a
with stock trip out with that. We did all the
things you did, and I'm like, this is what we
need because I'm like, as a rookie, like you're supposed
to get to the field at twelve o'clock for seven
o'clock game, Like why don't we.
Get yourself early? It's nuts?
And everything you did from Afar I aligned with. So
when we signed you, I was literally like a kid.
I'm still like a kid every time around.
You, so I appreciate it.
What did you try to implement coming in to Chicago?
Like what was you get a new job and trying
to learn everything, and what did you feel like when
you first got there. I really want to change this,
or you're really good about being yourself, But what what
kind of a new environment that's that's not easy?
I learned something in nineteen eighty five for something like
that with Jean Mark that goes back a bit. I
was running the instructional League in Arizona. I was the
field coordinator and a manager. I wasn't manager, but I
was leading that destruction league group. Gene comes in a time.
I'm out in the cage. I'm just throwing my BP,
but I'm I'm running the whole thing. And Gene walks
up to me and he says, in between he gave
me one of these, come over and speak with him.
You've created a great environment around here. And he had
his like polyester's on his here is perfect, smoking his cigarette.
He's loved to play golf, bridge, smoke a little bourbon.
Then he just takes off like a puff, you know,
he just disappears. And I thought to myself, what the
hell is he talking about? I had no idea what
he's talking about. And I think when you do things organically,
you don't know what you're doing sometimes, which is a
good thing. It's like the zone of being a coach
or a manager. But but I went home that night
and I thought, what hell was he talking about? So
I sat around and actually took no I wrote notes
by my At that time, I was a big note taker.
We built relationships, and when conversations and not just talking
to somebody, really listening to somebody, there's a different We
were talking about that before we started doing this, to
really listen to somebody. People will have a conversation kind
of but we really listened to one another, and a
lot of times the answer is no. But that's that
was my first takeaway. And then what happen because of that?
We trusted each other. I mean, and I know everybody
wants more ground balls, choreographed early work, all kinds of
dead information, booklets on the bench. Everybody wants. That's the
You don't start there. You start by relationship building, listening
to people. Then you build trust, and then you can
exchange ideas. In other words, like David and I have
different perspective or thoughts on something. So you give me yours,
I give you mine. And because we built trust and
we have a relationship, it's not going to be like, oh,
I'm not gonna listen to Joe. I'm just gonna he's
not listening to me right now. It's my way. I'm
not going to support them whatsoever. So you get this pushback.
So but if you establish those first two things, then
we can exchange ideas and I can disagree with you
and we could listen because that leads to constructive criticism.
Think about it. Think about it. I mean my best coaches,
the guys are really loved, the guys that told me
when I was wrong. Yeah.
Yeah, well you said honestly without conpassion, people's cruelty's I
took that with me as soon as I heard you
say that.
You said it early, when you first saw with us.
It was game changing for me as a leader, especially
as a young leader at the time. Was I can't
tell anyone what to do. They don't trust me as
a as a person. First, they need to know I
had their best interest, Because you go and tell someone
if any coach you have coaches all the time you come, hey,
you should do this, and I'm like, hold on, I
don't even know you. My name is Anthony. Nice to
meet you.
Perfect, Let's have a beer. Perfect, Perfect, And.
You instill that and you come over and you create
the greatest culture of a generation. Really, you were such
a pioneer and we were the first team to have
music at spring training. Every team, all thirty teams now
have music. Is everywhere, all the skits, right. You were
pioneer with analytics that was taboo back in the day,
and then you transitioned and became more of the see
and feel and analytical guy.
So it's like it's a combination of everything.
But the journey of Joe in your what fifty years,
sixty years, fifty I.
Don't even know. I started in as a coach in
nineteen eighty one, as a player in seventy six. But
I appreciate that because that's that's exactly how I feel
about it. It's a morphing of things. It's not just
data and analytics, it's also feel and experience and intuition.
I think you know you guys know you know Todd Green,
don't you? Yeah? Green? Do you know Todd Green? At all.
Green is one of my players with the Angels.
Scott Now we were to both catchers and trip away
our daughters of beautiful Man.
Beautiful man.
That's how I went to the hockey mass.
Okay, he kept getting his built as a bell rung
with that, I said, stop doing that anyway. So Greene
brought to my attention it's not old school, it's not
new school. It's being in school. You know. I think
we you know. It is great line because I don't
want to argue with you about what I learned from
Bob Clear in nineteen seventy nine as a coach, or
what I learned from Andrew Freeman in two thousand and
six or seven as a young manager with the Tampa
Bay Race or the Devil Rays at that time. That's
not the point, because I all of that is important
to me. When you fit. Extremism in any shape or
forming in our politics in today's world is awful. I'm
not into extremes. I think there's a balance to be
sawed and control and felt with everything. So I was
at the forefront of the data analytics in the early
two thousands. It was all my own stuff. Nobody told
me how to do this. But I got Bob Clear,
I got Gene Mack, I got Whitey Herzog, I got
Cookie Rojas, I got Marcel Ash I could go on
down seeah, I got don Zim, I got all these dudes,
come on. I got their stuff, and then I got
the newer stuff that started about two thousand and five
six seven with the Devil rays. And why would I
not want to use both sides of this thing? Why
would you want to rely heavily on one or the other.
Why can't you understand it's so how important it is
to morph these things together to really come to being
in school, Greeny was brilliant when he told that to me.
So that's where that's where we lie today. It's too
heavy handed eye leave one side being the more analytical,
data driven, controlling side, as opposed to the empowerment side,
which is the intuition, the feel, the experience side. For me,
if you really want to win championships on a regular basis,
learn how to bring them both together. Because I want
if I ever got to do this again, I want
the best analytical staff money can buy, totally but information absolutely.
But then I want the best tobacco spitting honest telling
experienced guys that hissed you off, and they tell you
the truth. Guys.
You told me that when I called you and I
got the managerial job, and we talked for like an hour,
and you told me, don't take for granted and forget
your experience, because that's going to guide you. And that's
really gonna like truy. You know, everybody says, you know,
we don't want to listen to our gut, but your
gut is your experience talking to you and the things
that you've been through and the dog out as a player, Like,
don't forget those as a manager because they they carry
a ton of weight and a ton of value.
I'm going to make a recommendation right now. I've read
a book recently. I'm reading it right now. It's called
You Already Know the Ladies professor from Northeastern University, Laura Loong.
I found somebody sent me like a little excerpt of
her work, so I got in touch with her. I
called her on the phone. Brilliant. This lady is a
young lady. She teaches at Northeastern and the whole book
is about experience, intuition, gout, feeling. Wow. Yeah, but she
really it's academic academia, but she explains it in such
a wonderful way. It's that it's very identifiable. And that's
the part part of the world today that I think
we're getting away from, Like AI is going to take
even further away from that, You're going to realize more.
Why do we want machines to tell us how to
live in, what to be, and how to do things.
Why even in a sport, why do you want to
rely on a machine, data, information, math, whatever you want
to call it. Why why is it so important to
do that? And why do you think I would say,
give me my give you the best coaching staff that
I could put together, and I'll battle your AI all
day long. And I mean there's no staff exactly, there's
no there's no definitives. And why you think just because
this data and information, this AI stuff. I'm here to
tell you if I get like the right group of
coaches together and I still want to utilize that, I
still want my information and you can utilize go ahead
and buy some good coaches yourself, But just give me
that opportunity. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna bust your balls, right,
down to the very end under those circumstances, and that's
what's missing, and it's the human element. God, Dan is
the human You're just talking about the culture and everything
else we had. You're not going to get that from
a from a computer. Now.
Well, I think that's what we I wanted to get
into because we feel like our coaches on that twenty
sixteen team were game changers, like can you walk through?
Just like the guys Bussy, Borsy Hider Jones and oz Bo,
Davey Martinez, I mean like and.
Ski and Ski.
Yes, guys that were in the trenches every day. And
it's like you were so good, Joe at distracting the media,
distracting the players from the media that I think guys
don't need to understand to where the manager has to
do so many obligations and then Davy would just come
in and that I had a phrase, prisoners run the asylum, right,
they let you guys, let us run the asylum. Of
course with structure everything, so often the wardens had to
step in and get us in line. But if there
was fires that be put out, either come and talk
to you or the easiest manager I've ever was able
to talk about or David would come and be, hey,
this is why we're doing this, or now we're not
doing that, and.
Like that was it? You love the Uncle? Sam posted right,
Oh yeah, that's one of the paintings we did. And
you know the main theme of that is the more
freedom given, the greater respect and discipline return totally. If
you're as a professional. I'm not going to do that
with fifth graders. Okay, I'm not gonna let a bunch
of fifth graders run the asylum. But if you're a professional,
you know, twenty plus year old, old enough to drink,
old enough to vote, old enough to die in a war, right,
and I'm going to tell you everything how to act
on a daily basis. No, the more freedom I give you,
the greater respect and to get coming back towards me,
and more freedom I give you, the more you can
actually listen to me totally, at least at least way,
at least way what I have to say, sure, right,
because I never I never. I could almost use the
word never created like an edict. You got to do this,
We got to do that. The closest I came to that.
You don't remember this in twenty fifteen and we did
cut off some relays. I hated it and I stopped everything.
I remember Starlin Castro, I remember all the dudes. I
remember a hobby just going through the motions. We started
doing relay catches. That's right. You realize we didn't screw
up a freak.
Cat because we can't take it too serious.
No know how to do the fun of that exactly.
You had three rules in twenty fifteen, do simple better
dress right, respect ninety and our dress code.
If you think you that's right you.
Said you said in that speech is spring trains, like
whoever made some putting a collar on a shirt?
That's the right, one is right?
And that that alone, to a young group that's still
learned how to win in fifteen, was like, this is amazing.
Don't you got pissed off? But we didn't play hard right,
you got seldomly did guys know you got pissed off?
But as we got to know you a little, we
could tell ye and if there was mental errors, hate
mental air, and that's what we knew. So it's like,
don't don't fuck up, don't be that person, and we
can literally.
Do whatever you wanted to.
And it was and the spring training.
You Sandon brothers.
It was a bandon brothers, and you gave us that freedom.
And I think that's how a team. A team needs
to be led.
By the players. Right.
Absolutely, But you would say in your speech and spring training,
you would say, you guys all know wrong from right.
She was right, it's correct, she was right, it's not
it's not hard.
I've been using that since like nineteen whatever, when I
managed the Idaho Falls Angels and the Salem Angels in
nineteen eighty one eighty twenty three. That would be part
of what I talked to these guys about. You know
what's right and wrong. I don't have to stand up
here and tell you with right and why. You grew
up in the family. But father, the mother, you had teachers,
you had coaches. You know what's right and wrong. But
like write it down on a piece of paper. Choose right.
Just choose right every time we're not that's right. We're
not gonna have any issues because I'm not going to
stand here and just lord over you and be your father.
I'm not your dad. I'm your manager, and I'm here
to make sure this runs properly. And for me, it's
about on the field. I want it. I wanted a uniformity.
I want a consistency. That's that's where I wanted to. Uh,
this could I don't want to use a word conformity,
but again, unity is probably the right way to put it.
Off the field, I wanted to do dress off if
you want it, or your hair out you want it.
I don't care how many earrings you were. I didn't
care about any of that. This isn't doesn't matter. But
when you got on the field, at that point, if
I gave you enough freedom to be yourself, you're going
to give me that respect back to play the game properly.
That's what I was thought.
I remember you getting flak. We picked a guy off
first in the Washington d C game, so outside of
the game, so now it was the first anyways, we
pick him off, and you were like, did you The
media was like did you call that play? You let
them do that? You're like, of course, we let them
do it. Like they see an opportunity, take advantage of it.
And I think that freedom, like you said, you handled
all of me and stuff. I never felt like there
was this curse, this thing hanging over because we were
our only new unit inside the clubhouse, and you let
us kind of have that freedom within that structure, and
I thought that's what brought out the best and and
all of us made myself included was that the last
the game, last out of the game, Yeah, pick him off.
Then we had that back paper. They're like, what if
he does the right field, was like, well what if
he doesn't?
You know what if you could fly?
The point was if it's the right baseball plate to do,
then do it totally. And if it doesn't work out,
well I'm okay with that, but it was the right
thing to do in the moment. And when you have
to worry about making a mistake, then you'll never do
the right thing because you're going to be Hobby right.
Absolutely, you literally I don't think Hobby knows this. I'm
sure he does. But how you handled Hobby and just
let Hobby be Hobby. He turned into the magician, He
turned into the wild man on the basis, and he
played into that. And that's why I believe he blossomed
because you see guys all the time in that type
of talent, well maybe not his talent, but come up
and just don't have the right mentors.
A baseball genius he is. I mean, he just sees
things that other people don't see, and then he's able
to react upon what he's seeing. Also, see if you
if you see something and there's any I mean any
kind of hesitation, then that moment's gone. So that's that's
purely reacted to a moment. And he's able to do that.
But he has to be able to he has to
know that if he does it and it doesn't turn out, well,
he's not going to the princes. I mean, if he knows,
he's going to know the principal's office every time he
could have tried this stuff about the place between third
and home, the running place where he's safe. Yeah right,
I mean stuff.
Like what what just happened?
Did you talk to him? Did you do you remember
conversations talking to him or now?
Oh yeah, Well most of the time when I did
talk Hi, when he was getting out of control at
the plate, That's when I would talk to him. I said, Hobby, right,
center counts. You know, that side of the field matters
accounts also, So I think primarily i'd be that my
conversations would be more when I thought he was getting
a little out of control offensively but on defense. Yeah,
what am I gonna tell me? There's nothing I could
help him with. I mean, that's another thing to know
as a coach, as a manager, even as a hitting coach.
And young Jim Edmonds, I'm up in Vancouver with him.
I'm the rowing minor league hitting instructor, and James is
just like tearing it up like he could right, And
I'm just going and I just I stand on the side.
I just watch him, and I'm watching he just tearing
it up. So I'm there for a couple of days
and he's like, you know, why come you're not talking
to me? Says I can't help you. I can only
serve the confusure right now, so please remit me to
just watch. I'm taking my notes. When I come back
in a town of things are right, I'll say something
to you, But for right now, I cannot help. It
can only hurt you. I feel them exactly.
That I want to sidetrack because this is like so
important to us. A little bit that has to do
with culture. But knowing your players and having all the
background you did the five levels of a big league Yeah, oh,
like that's the.
Compassion, the compassion you had for your players knowing kind
of where they were at and their journey was unmatched.
And I think that's different when you're actually a player
in the middle of it. And then as a veteran
I looked back, I was like, that's exactly right, Like.
Can you relist those real quick? Yea, let me tell
you exactly how it happened. Ninety five, six six, I
was the first base, first base coach. Yeah, with the
Angels and Marcel lash wonderful. Wonderful might have been ninety five,
but anyway, ninety first latch if things didn't work out well,
always took the hit. He always thought it was his fault,
and of course it wasn't. Marshall is one of the best,
if not the best, pitchy coach I've ever been around.
Lose a tough game in Nanaham Stadium, and I always
I would sit with him until he left because he
would just beat himself up. So We're sitting there and
I'm just I'm just observing. I don't know, I don't know,
I'm not I've never played in the big leagues. I
don't know. So I'm sitting there that night and I'm
taking it all in. I go back to my uncle Ricksaus.
I'm living with Uncle Rick up in Long Beach and
I get there and all of a sudden had this
epiphany and I again piece of paper by my bed,
wrote it down, what am I seeing here? What am
I seeing? So I don't know why I went five
levels level one happy to be here, because I was
writing and I was right there. I was only called
up a year year before. It must have been ninety
five happy to be here as level one, right, and
we all, like you said, I lost a brand new
leather bomber jacket at the Hurtz counter on my trip
from Vancouver to an On for my first trip to
the big leagues, because I was so excited, just happy
to be there. And then once you get there.
I got to the Big Leagues with the Dodgers and
didn't play, and like about the seventh day and I'm like,
something been triple A. I was so to be Alex
Corer actually told me, I said, he goes, how are
you doing? Russ's like, just happy to be here. He's
never say that I want to go back and play exactly.
So then you once you've arrived at we realize all that.
Then you get to the next point, Man, I really
like this. I want to stay here. This is really
good survival, and survival is very dangerous because when you're
when you're like happy to be here, you can help
the team. You're out there playing, you're pre wheeling it.
You have your blinders on, you don't even see the
third deck yet, the lights, whatever, you don't read the papers,
you don't care, so you're able to be productive and helpful.
But the moment the blinders come off, you start to
see everything, and man, I really dig on this stuff.
I want to stare. Then you become very cautious and
you don't want to make mistakes. You don't want anybody
yelling at you or whatever. I'm not playing you because
of that. So it works from happy to be here
to like, damn, stage two survival. I like this, I
want to stay here, dangerous, dangerous spot and guys in
that level really of course they can help you win,
but their their motivation isn't right. Their motivation is to.
Not to not yeah, almost selfish exactly.
And then here comes level three and this is what
you want to get to. And I remember, you know,
for me specifically, even as a coach, I be longer
I can do this. You know. That's a that's a
really strong epiphany, that moment when you look around at
your peers and you feel like you're as good as
everybody else here, everybody else out here, and you can
do this on a daily basis. I can contribute. I
know what to say in a meeting. I know how
to break this down because it's the same game, but
it's completely different minor leagues to bigleies. If we all
know that. So that's it. Level three, I be longer,
I can do this. Wow, that's when you actually exhale,
I think for the first time. Level four, I want
to make as much money as I thought you can,
right exactly. But it's true because it's it's a limit.
You don't do it for forty years. It's not like
you're a doctor or lawyer whatever, you could do this
for many you're you have a definite, finite time limit
regarding doing that.
So and that's a whole other pressure, right. I want
to have a good year because four.
Years there's a lot going on there. Man. So you
get to level four, I want to make as much
though as I can. And here comes level five. After
you've made some money, all you want to do is win.
And it's true. I mean, you go to the ballpark
and there's there's no weather agenda. You don't even think
about anything else but winning. That's it. I mean you you,
the blinders are on. You see this. Your your focus
is outstanding. You're not worried about all kinds of bullshit
or crap. You don't worry about it. You're just worried
about doing my job and then maybe helping somebody else
around me. And tonight's objective is to win, and how
do we do that.
We had a lot of those guys better and guys absolutely,
Oh my god, I think money.
I think what was great too, is because the mix
of veterans and young players help that it was so
easy to be level one through three, Yeah, but also
be level five because there was no one there that
wasn't expecting to win every night. And that was the
way your solid managing. You played pretty much win win
every night. Very rarely we laid it down, no, right,
that's right. Very rarely we punted, and when we did punt,
it was okay.
Yeah, it was okay.
When we went through a skid, like I remember Hinsky
saying all the time, I'll tell you one guy who
does not panic, and he would point at you all
the time. Your manager does not. I mean, I'm sure
you had your own emotions, but there's teams you're on,
and like you see all the structure starting to crumble
a little bit, that the coaching staff's starting to be
pointing fingers a little bit, And was that never.
I was so grateful it took me so long to
become a major league manager, you know, because I observed that.
I regret that I don't experience that.
Yeah, I mean, that's that's the honesty, got truth. I mean,
I I saw from so many different angles. Being a
minor league roving instructor was very helpful too. Just going
from town to town every five six days, you go
to a different city, see a different manager. You'rs see
a different manager theirs on the other side, And I
was always observing what was going on with these managers
and how they handle situations. So that's part of it. Also,
So by the time I get to the major leagues,
I knew, like I said, I know what I know.
I knew, I knew I could get you. I would
give you examples if you pointed out different situations. I'd
give you example, I would call recall situations where that's
where I learned this from, and that's why I was
able to process it the way I did. That's the
experienced component of it that I that I were just
talking about it, the control versus experience, the empowerment versus control.
I mean, I learned all that stuff. So when we
got the different situations, I swear to you, I don't
even know. I this is not like a bragging kind
of a comment. I don't know what it was with
you guys. If anything popped that I really had not
been through before.
When you put when you put Travis Wooden.
Like, well you remember that that was the night that
the lefty pitch matisya madis?
Yeah, oh that's the We've already discussed that game. Remember
remember CEO came in and pissed off the whole coaching staff.
Lesser told that story.
Yeah, it was, it was.
It was hairy. I remember we spoke about it, but
I remember the yeah, it was very came in, he
was waiting on everybody, My bad and then the squeeze bomb.
Squeeze, But I was sick, fearless. Well, the thing was
I give Deal a lot of credit because Deal went
on the walk during the game. He was so upset
with himself because the way the first was they scored
six runs in the first first two and three. We
need to to to you know, that's the kind of
stuff that bonds, that brings things down, there no doubt
about it. So you take chances when you're gonna lose,
or if you're losing, the sky is the limit, you
just throw everything out there. You could be way more
liberal under those moments, you're way more conservative. When it's tighter,
you just are. It's just it's the way the game's played.
So when you're losing or in the process of losing,
you do anything you can to possibly win. And that's
that was the wooty thing. And then we did it
with strophe and left field in Cincinnati one time or two.
That's what we The Joe West and the umpire are
really getting upset with me because I was like testing
the rules a little bit stuff playing that was talked
about and I talked about, but we he and I
talked about that. That was like really good. That was
your idea originally that was his idea.
Well, it permitted us to do the back picks with
Hobby and all kind of stuff.
So when you when you when you prep against the Cubs,
like there's so much to talk about, no doubt, so
much to talk about.
I want to I want to, like we talk culture
all day. One more thing I want to hit on.
How did you you said you've learned this. How did
you get the celebration after wins? That was a big
part of Pioneer. That was a big part of us.
Try to shots after we sweep, sometimes shots before the game.
Whatever it took. Man, I'm trying to think of, like
the first time the celebration, I was at the Rays,
and I can't remember the genesis of it, but I
do remember the genesis of the disco ball. I told
Wesley he was the clubhousk. I said, Westy, we need
some disco balls in here. So like the game would
be over, we'd walk away win and all of a sudden,
you like at nightclub, it was like the warm up
lounge and hazels, and that's what I wanted to look like.
So we walked in there and all this stuff's going on.
We had Chris Rock one night at the head of
the line. We won. We won he's yelling as we
walk in the locker room with the disco balls going.
So that was the first thing, and then it just
worked from there. It morphed into us Saint Paul girls signed,
It morphed into instruments Lonely brought in like a saxophone
that he was horrible at playing, but it was great,
and it just kept evolving Angel James. Yeah, and then
we turned ours into yeah. Then we took it to
another Well, we had an actual celebration. Yeah, we had
walked up. But it never got it never got No,
it doesn't get old. Celebrating achievement never gets old. That's right.
When that's and the best part about that is lose
for thirty minutes, right because there's so many games, and
it was like after thirty minutes, even if it was
a tough off, all right, that's it.
On to the next one. That was that was the
problem when I had with the Angels, when I in
the late in the middle to late nineties. Remember we
lost a huge lead to the Mariners in ninety six.
We were up by thirteen or fourteen games. I was
like I was on August, like August six or what August,
You're born on August eighth or ninth. Okay, how about
I knew that's all right, that's crazy. So we have
like a thirteen or fourteen game lead in the beginning
of August and we lose it. We have a one
game playoff with the Mariners at the end of the season.
We lost Ranny Johnson versus Langston in the Kingdom. I
was the first base coach anyway that team and teams
after that, I felt would take a loss and turning
into tomorrow's loss. Also, just by the way they reacted,
I'm watching guys come in the next day. They're sullen.
They can't even talk to each other. You know. Dave Hollins,
I love Dave Hollins, and David would be like you
never did. He did not like to lose, brother, but
I would like, I would like, always funny man, God
did he make me laugh. But you you come in
the next day and that we're still we just lost.
It felt like we just lost, and I hated that.
I knew that was why we're going to lose today
and possibly again tomorrow. Two we finally shake it get
back to being normal. So that that made me think
of that.
That that's simply the celebration one helped you in that day, right, right,
and then saying with about thirty minutes, like fine soft
for thirty minutes whatever on man, moving on, Yeah, people
can come in whatever.
It's just so easy to go through the motions win
or lose, like all right, well, not the treatment, I
have to do this now, right Exactly, It's like, hold on,
let's let's celebrate the guys of the player of the game,
that's right, or bring guys in and make everyone feel
a part of it. If if a reliever got big outs, right,
those guys are on islands for their pictures.
So it was it was incredible, but losing hard for
thirties also more because somebody may have had like some
guys have a good game too, you know, and then
but we've lost, so they expected to control all of that. Also,
there's there's respect built into both sides of that, whether
to celebrate because some guys when you win, had a
horrible day, but they stileft the rebel in the win.
Yes, that's all me.
Veteran team.
Yeah, when I would be bad or not play well,
I had to be so and it helped me get
over and not playing well because he's like winning cures everything.
Absolutely, I stunk and we won. It was like, all right,
and that's that's awesome. Not everybody's like that.
Yeah you know, yeah, but you gotta learn that skill
set from around good veterans leadership. It's like, no, no, no,
we won. I know you had a bad day, made
three errors and went over, but like back to tomorrow
because that's the one. I think that the short term
memory is so important in baseball in particular because it
is everything.
There's no coincidence.
I was coming back down three to one.
No, no, that was all literally two years of life
lessons that we're all learning from veterans to young guys.
Yeah.
It was just yeah. And when we were talking about trust,
I thought of I came into your office one day
and I was like, this is the type of manager
that you were to me. They were like a second
dad as my manager. And it was I was like, man,
last night, I think we went to the Aviary and
Chicago and they make these like crazy drinks and we
drink a bunch of wine. Emily and I, I oh
got after your last night.
Oh nice?
You asked me what I was drinking? How I was feeling.
I was like, all right, I just hit the middle
one today and it was like I walk out of there.
I feel so good.
I just told my manager I got absolutely annihilated last night,
and he supported me, and I probably went out.
And had a great game. Sometimes it's necessary, brothers, that
it's necessary. That's that's we play every day. We play
every day, and for those that have never played every
day have no idea what that feels like. And I'm
not just talking about physically. The mental part of this
game is the devastating part of this game. When you
can control your your thoughts and your actions mentally, that's
the difference between a superstarist and all that being a
big leaguer being a four A guy, guy that really
can never get over the hump from triple A to
that four eight. We call it four A because it's
the tweener guy between being a minor leaguer and a
major leaguer. But you can't get over that. It's not
because your skills aren't good. Your brain just can't deal
with it, man. And when you can deal with it,
when you learn how to like throw it away. I said,
tell guys, sometimes you see that big lake out there,
like I called you know, I called it a notionan
on the right home tonight. Take all those thoughts, put
wrap it on a big old rock and throw it
in that lake, and then come back tomorrow, because you
don't need those thoughts. Yeah.
I always said when I played, if I was able
to mentally shut off for one hour, it was equivalent
to two weeks reset. So like I'd go out on
Lake Michigan, or hang out with some friends, or go
out in Chicago or on the road.
Tso meet you and Happer at test. Yeah, I was
so hungover in the flight home when I was a
special assistant and I get I checked the box score
when we land him and half had the only RBI.
I'm like, yeah, that's one.
And I'm like, how on that Hecker they even seeing?
That's funny.
Yeah, I remember training morning, just spring training one year.
We go to Vegas every year.
Yeah.
You caught me in the office and I lined it
up perfect. I was going to play the first game.
You were giving me off the second. I was like,
let's set the whole night up right. Joe Cousman's office
may be a day or two before he goes Hey,
you know Vegas, you know, puts on a big show.
They need you to play the second game. It's like, oh,
and I told him I had this whole night. I'm like, oh,
He's like, don't worry about it. He's like, you're gonna
come in to have a great night. There's gonna be
three balls, try to hit the center one. And I
brought the idea up. I think of the Bloody Mary
station and the Mimosa bar. Okay, okay, And the next
morning we are in Vegas. We had a Bloody Mary
barfore the game, themsation and it was like we were
there to work and also have fun, and you if
you don't do both, it's.
You're gonna implode at some point. That's the point. It's
all about balance. The whole world's about balance. Your life's
about balance. You got a new baby right now. You
know exactly what that feels like. Once you have a
child of your own, you understand what the word sacrifice
really means. And until you have that baby, you'll never
really know what the word sacrifice truly means. Everything's exposed
to you as you go through life and in baseball
right now, and I'm just gonna pound on it for
a second, because right now the things we're talking about
are not really embraced anymore. They're not really considered important anymore.
And to me, they're the most important part of it.
All the other stuff that you want to teach me,
that's great, and I want I want, like I said,
the best coaches want, the best staff, whatever. But I
also want a pressure release valve. There's enough pressure being
applied to athletes. I was watching the the NBA game
last night. What does the Spurs and the Knicks all
of a sudden you're playing a championship game in the
first month of the season. Pretty much, My god, that's
kind of like the WBC Classic I guess right, you know,
a couple years ago when Tawny pitched that. But anyway,
I believe in the pressure release valve, and I don't
I don't know that enough people understand that. Everybody that
everybody that's really never done what you guys have done.
So much respect for which you guys have done. And
that's where my my perspective comes from. I never did it.
I was I was good maybe once two three times
a week at the most as a baseball player, and
so the guy that could play every day, I think,
the hell, how can he how can he maintain is
his focus, his sanity, and not only that, your physical
repetition of your skill. No, that's that's that's big because
you know to be able to do everybody takes it
for granted. But whether it's a good batting stroke, whether
it's a good throwing stroke, your good fielding stroke, whatever
it might be, to do that every day, it is
just than one percent of the population whatever. It's so
special you, and that's so different.
He was a switch I was a switch guy. When
he was playing, his switch was always on. Okay, so
he'd come in, he's playing whatever, fifth day, playing day,
of course, I tell.
You, And I was up Lesser's ass because I'm like,
if you sucking, don't get to hit, I only get
three at bats.
Four and then then then who hears about him? Right?
He had. I had a great argument one night of
one day of my lock in my office about something
I said, I pitched it for you or something like
that in Pittsburgh. Yeah, you came. He got really pissed off.
We had a great conversation. I can't remember exactly how
it went.
But you were always open. Well, I think it was like, uh,
it was in fifteen, and I think I get pinch
it for and from like little.
He was angry elf when he yeah, I was just like.
Yeah, it was just one of those things you always
hated getting pinch it for. But I didn't think the
guy pinch hit for me was better than me.
You know. It was one of those.
So it was al Contra or something like.
It could have been yeah, the little yeah switch do
it to pop? Yeah, he's never had the big league pop.
We tried to Pat. That's when it said, it me.
Off if you would get mad at me because I
would be off and I would keep my switch off
all the time.
Rossie.
You know, I could flip the switch at anytime, and
he's like, my switch always needs.
To be on.
What I managed. I came in and ripped the team
one day, just had an explosion, which there wasn't many
of those. But he afterwards he came to my off
and he goes I was almost I had to hold
myself back from laughing almost video. I was like, uh,
you know, but I want to get into fifteen and
talk a little bit about we have our our ideas,
but when did you think we were good in fifteen
when you're like, oh, these guys figured it out. Was
there a moment or what? What was we feel like
it was San Francisco, Remember I sleep in San Francisco
a game sweep?
Yeah? Yeah, is that August? That was like August? Yeah, yeah,
And that was also Addison at short stop and started
second base. KB had just oh was first question?
Sorry, I got to hit this a good one. Did
you how hard did you fight for KB KB to
break camp with us in fifteen or did you at all?
I didn't Did you have to say there was no
there was nothing I could do because it was it's
all about the rules. I mean, they could do that
as much as they want, but it's all about the rules.
Then you could do about that. Not a thing it
was going. It happened with Longloria here when it was
with the rings. Longo went down for a couple of weeks,
then came up and tore it up. Yeah. KB was down,
came up and tow it up.
It's not just nobody.
Yeah, it's nobody's fault. It's just the rules of the game.
That's all that was.
So there's nothing like division by what two games?
It's like yeah, but there's there's nothing to as a manager.
There's nothing I could have done as as okay as
a Gene mock manager. That would have never happened. As
a ear weaver, that would have never happened. I don't
even know if the rules. Oh my god, everybody, I
mean everybody was afraid to come into your clubhouse. The GM,
the assistant GM, anybody else that worked upstairs was afraid
to come in a big league club house. It was
that daunting. I love that, I'm not That is not
an exaggeration, That's exactly the true.
If the players take over the right way.
I think the good gms are the ones that are
in there every day, but in a positive way, right
like given, given, given better, better feedback. Yeah, and when
did you feel like we were good?
The famous Miggy Montero, we are, we are good.
When did I feel we were good? I was like,
honestly the San Francisco Series, because I remember driving to
the ballpark. We were good before that, I can't remember.
I can't give you specifically. Could we were building?
But we we never We couldn't win a bunch of
a row, but we didn't lose a bunch of row.
We just kind of. I thought that San Francis School
Series was the seminal moment because it was the Giants,
and I remember driving my pickup truck down Clark on
the way to the ballpark, and I'm getting myself jacked
up because I thought this is big. I mean, I
never apply more weight to anything, but I thought, this
one's kind of big to handle the Giants right now
could really send us on the trajectory we're looking for.
And it did. So we're going there and we win
the first street and then the last game they had
the bases loaded and nobody out. We're up three to
two and run. Don't get s out of it, but
don't gets out of it somehow? Is that right? Right?
But I thought that was a seminal moment in the
year where we after that we knew we were good.
We did. It's not about when I did. It's like
when the guys know you're good. Everybody's contributing. Everybody, but
our defense got tight. Our defense, I mean with Addison
and Starling over there, everything changed defensively, which really was
big at that point. Yeah, I think for me, if
I had a because I I'm answering the question based
on the fact I remember driving on clark Y Yeah,
I mean, that's that's pretty.
Well, Grandmam. I remember I was sweeping them and they
had two championships on that. But that was the other
part of the chance, right like, and they said, all
those guys Buster and yeah, all the boys Letscam and Bumgardner.
I mean they were loading.
Oh yeah, solute. Yeah.
In twenty fifteen, you had to move a superstar shortstop
from shortstop to second base, and he did it with
he was a great Starlin Casho was so he was
such a good leader, especially a Latin leader, which it
was like amazing for me. He was one of my
biggest mentors when I was young. But for it to
be able to do that and move him off shortstop
to second and him you feel good about it, was
like I have so much history in itself.
I remember we're talking right now. I'm sitting in that
little manager's office and Starling sitting right over there right
and I'm explaining things to him. You know, I'm sure,
I'm sure he hated it, right, but he never he
never was disrespectful. He listened all the way through. And
this is really the best part about that for me,
as a manager, because I think that's the way it
should be. It was just me. It wasn't like a
front office dude with me or anything like that. It
wasn't like I would I wasn't being supported or the
conversation didn't include other voices. Was just me and him,
as it should be. The only time you bring somebody
else in, you think there's going to be a fight
and the guy, and the guy's pretty big. But anyway,
he sat there and he took it, and I told
he wasn't going to play for a couple of days.
I told him that because we wanted to get him
used to second base and never cried or complained. You
remember how well he played after that?
Yeah, yeah, even Alfonso because Soriano was such a good
leader and he sorry would have like I think sorry.
One year played with the assistant is the entire YEA.
He wanted to play every day. Stalin taught me every
day thirteen I hit like two thirty. Hey, keep your
head up, we play every day. You play every said
that too, I don't care if we play every day well,
And I learned as a young player that's how it's valuable,
that's how you earned horse upmost amount of respectful.
When you're talking about that some of some advice I've
passed along that I use. It's like when I was managing,
it's like, you know, I tell the guys the truth
because if I lie to them, you know, like give
them that line, you know.
Yeah, I mean it's not only in baseball, but anything else.
If I if I tell you the truth, you might
not like me for a week or ten days, but
if I lie to you, you can hate me forever.
And that's such a truth. And going back on players experience,
and especially when I was coming up, it was a
little bit more. They would sugarcoat some things or not
to eat right, and all you wanted to do as
a man is like just tell me where I stand
right then it's on me. And you did a good
job of that. But that phrase I've used so much
just because it's like I again, you try to have
compassion with it, but I'm going to hit you with
the truth knowing I'm on your side. I'm on your side,
but I'm gonna just be completely honest and transparent because
I think that's the best way for you to be
able to deal with it and us.
To move forward. Everybody moves forward after this, right, exactly right.
Otherwise there's always this consternation, interpretation, what does you really mean?
All the stuff questioning you're ready gets it gets dragged out.
This is the sharp knife compared to the doll knife.
Always use the sharp knife. Always when it comes to
a tough decision, use the sharp knife, because then it
has a chance to heal more quickly. The dull knife,
you get a bad edge, it just gets uh, it
doesn't scar properly whatever, and eventually turns into like a
scar tissue that really never goes away. Use the sharp knife.
When you use the sharp knife, like you just said,
everything moves forward rather quickly after that.
Another pioneer thing was you would send the lineup out
the night before. Oh yeah, and that was I never
heard of that.
I did that. I don't know if you did.
Now it's hated now it's almost a customers standard practice
because if for me, thankfully I played every single day,
but I never worried about that in everything, but being
a leader on the team and say Halp wasn't playing
or short wasn't playing. You got to talk to them
off the ledge. And if you get to the field
and there they see that day that they're in the
line they're not, and then they're pissed off all day
over one sixty two. It just takes a little chink
of the armor. Yeah, you know, and you need all
guys pulling the same road.
Now. I'll tell you how I learned that. Darren urstat
do you guys know, Yeah, don't mess with I never
play with him. I love that man.
He reminds me a lot like he's like utly, like
he's gonna, yeah, he's gonna, he's gonna do whatever it
takes to win.
Correct. So with social as a manager, and we didn't
do that. We didn't put the lineup out the night before.
So uh, going the next day and I'm in charge,
I'm the bench coach doing all the paperwork and stuff.
I gotta go tell Arsty's not in the lineup. Oh
my god, he says, what do you tell me last night?
Because if you don't tell somebody the night before they're
not in the lineup and every day guy, then you
really don't have a day off. There's no night off,
right because because you go through your whole routine and
you get up at the same time, you eat whatever,
you want to eat, you come to the ballpark the
same time, so you don't. You really don't get a
day up unless somebody knows they have a day off.
A regular player the night before. The utility guy not
necessarily as much, but a regular guy really needs to
know the night before for him to truly have a
day off. So Erstye taught me that. So I used
to do that even before that, though I did that
in instructional leagues. When I did instructional leagues, I used
to put a week's worth of lineups up in advance,
so everybody knew when they were playing. And instructionally, you
play a different day service. You're not just an everyday guy.
But I wanted guys to requisition their work in a
way that you could maximize their work and they knew
what they had to do on a daily basis.
Yeah, so I believe.
But when I got to as an inter manager, I
was that. A couple of times with Agels, I would
I would have the lineups as they were walking out
the after the night game whatever on the on the
door as they walked out and be the next day's lineup,
And that's when I started doing it. So that was
in ninety six I was an interim manager and ninety
nine I was an intern manager. That's when. That's when
we did that there.
So I remember this. It was so good and I'm
gonna plug Corona here. Stroke by strophe was grinded for us,
or like in August or September and you told him
the night before you are not hitching tomorrow, and then
next day there was like a little blow up locker
with Corona or a little umbrella like a beach chair.
And I was dying because you you recognize that and
you're like, no, you you grind it for us, You're
you're down, You're do and enjoy it. And always for
me it was like when I was down, I knew
I wasn't playing for the most part, or I was
I turned off until like the biggest.
Wish, right it had to be like something dire that
we had to use it. But yeah, well, and.
Front office is now the one thing that I I
definitely saw as a player and try to use as
a manager, Like you give your everyday player off. It's
not an off day if you're expecting the pinch hit, because.
The guys now if you can't if you turn on
when you're an everyday player, if your mind turns on,
it's not an off day. Yeah, if so, when I
would like I would tell young guys. I told Anthony
Volpi he he heard his shoulder and he had a
couple of days off. I'm like, dude, just watch the
game with no expectation. That's what be a fan of
the game. Sit on the top step and like, enjoy
where you are and if you have to turn on
to get a pinch it, just do it. It's one
a bat like stay off because that's stress, that mental stress.
The value of off.
Days or the value of the everyday player. I backed
up Brian mccannon Atlanta. I was like, my one goal
is not to get this guy up off the seat,
you know, like that's how I get your person wanted
to win. I want to win today because I know
if we're winning, he doesn't pinch, hit for me or
of course for somebody and go in. But fast forward
to the end of fifteen a little bit. I think
the Pittsburgh Wildcard Game is the most important game it comes.
I think that the most wild game of all.
Right, how about it?
You let you let Arieta go see g Right, the
nastiest picture on the planet by far, but that that
would be so taboo in today's.
Game, are you kidding me?
Well, well, well, Mota just did it right with the dollars.
Yeh yeah, yeah, okay, but let me let me give
you the history on that one. You remember, we were
playing Minnesota in Minnesota and uh Jake pitches a nine inning,
complete game shutout. I think it was a four hitter.
It might have been a two four hit or whatever.
But we won eight nothing. So I got a lot
of crap because they did not pull him out when
we started leading eight nothing in that game. We were
it was a closer game, I think seventh or eighth inning,
we scored several runs and it eventually made it eight
nothing going into the ninth inning. I think he had
like that, right aroun one hundred and ten pitches easy
to pull him at that point. The thing that I
learned as a minor league coach, I thought, instructor, when
the dude walks off the mount with a complete game shutout,
changes them, changes them. And I thought, and I thought,
within within limits, let him go back out there. I
think he ended up with nine innings, twenty four shutout
and very limited number of hits.
Well, a both lot of confidence.
That's it. I mean, you mine once another one and
mine once stretched. How's a difficult time going back to
its original form? So the once you stretch your mind
to nine innings and I like this, it's a drug.
I want to do this all the time. I got
a lot of craft from the front office, quite frankly
about that. I love that. Why did you Why did
you pull him after I gave him the exact reason
I'm telling you right now. I can remember calling Charlie
pitching a complete game and palm springs and whatever the
year that was. I'm the roving instructor, David holridch same thing.
Guys you've never heard about. But it definitely enhanced their
their minor league careers at that point. But so when
he gets to the playoff game in Pittsburgh, Jack's done
that before. Why do I want to go?
No doubt in his mind.
He's tweeting, He's tweeting, I don't know if you saw
those like there because Pittsburgh was loud. I mean that
place when when Pad he made the air and there's
basis I couldn't even I couldn't hear myself breathe there.
I mean it was lit and they were they were nasty.
Pennsylvania all black.
The whole stadium was black.
Yeah.
And he's tweet before. It doesn't matter, it doesn't he
just goes out there. They try to hit him.
Tony Watson, Yeah, I remember that, yees little clear, right,
that's right.
That that too was another. That celebration after that was
like two hours.
Oh my gosh, I remember the war.
Yeah, and we beat the Cardinals, who were the gold standard.
That's right.
That was a big one.
R We had to take it from that's that. You
have to take it. Take it from them, and we
did because we didn't beat our ass. That's right. At
the beginning of the year, the games we lost in
Saint Louis, we didn't know how to win yet, that's right.
That's because we were were winning. And then they came
back and it was like these motherfuckers exactly. And then
I take the ball back, I said, I remember the coaches.
He's always come over to the weight room. Uh, hey, Ras,
what's up man?
How are you? The other Cardinal coaches, we started beating them.
They never saw that, never that beautiful thing, that's right.
Exactly right. That's but I remember the game in Pittsburgh.
My god, but it was one of the more we
play some almost perfect games, like in sixteen against the Dodgers,
when the clincher against the Dodgers Kyle Hendrick, that's like
almost a perfect game. That was like a perfect baseball game.
But that game in Pittsburgh, that really did put us
in a different stratosphere. Ye absolutely, I.
Remember how loud it got. We made one air in
that basis load of membory that and so.
I was saying double and you were like, whoa, I
was seeing stars stars. I never that was my first
time in the playoffs, the first game, I'm like, what dozing?
So in twenty fifteen, we beat the Cardinals, we roll
into the Mets, I'm fully convinced that we're winning the
World Series. That's that's first time winning our chemistry. And
we run into the bus saw of that gauntlet of
a pitching staf We get swept, heartbreak, did everything we could.
The magician, I think jack Hammer Magic was great, jack Hamer,
but like we left that feeling like I was heartbroken.
We come into sixteen and it was like we were
already the World Series.
Champions.
I felt that. I don't know if anyone else, I
feel like everyone that was the way. It was the
best camp I've ever had. All the skits that my
wife thank you, but.
In the back of it, that's a whole other show
in the back of the band.
But it was just everything was like so in flow.
Guys were doing their job. We knew what it took,
we were determined, we were hungry, and we go into
that season. We get off to this insane start. Right
what the third game, fourth game, Shoreber goes down, yea
huge blow, like devastating because he was a dog and
he was one of our guys. And as early as
Lackie's first start, the Diamondbacks put up what five or
six runs off of them in the first and we
just boat raced them exactly and it was like, we
can't be beat. It was insane that that start to
that season.
But that's where that's where it embraced.
The target came.
Man.
I thought, like, you know you, you had to kind
of marinate over that all off season, and there's so
many things that came from that that I still that
are kind of in my soul as a as a
baseball guy. It's like, you know, having the target on
your back is a good thing, and you know, just
know we're not perfect, right, Like it's and process and
the things that built us as a championship team with
the hunger of getting so close and losing the year before,
the process is fearless, constantly reduced, like the things that
you had on the Embrace the Target shirt in spring training.
Like all that's a culmination of the culture we talked
about earlier, going into a team that had a lot
of young guys but in a lot of expectations.
Yeah, that's that's kind of interesting, man, because that all happened.
That started in the winter meetings after the twenty fifteen season.
Might have been in San Diego. I'm not sure the
winter meetings were at the time. However, you remember the
manager gaggle. Everybody gets in front of the manager and
they start firing questions. Now, we have not won anything
since nineteen oh eight, and all of a sudden, now
you're being picked to win the World Series? Right, how
does that happen? So I remember we're there and I'm
getting all this stuff fired at me, and I did
not ruminate. I didn't think about this at all. But
all of a sudden, I just said, we just need
to embrace the target. That's how it came out. I
was being pressed against the wall. Hey, we just got
to embrace the target. And then from that all this
other stuff flowed out of that. That's exactly what happened.
But I do I've always had the mindset. I like
the word pressure a lot. I like the word expectations
a lot, not a little bit a lot, because whatever
you're doing, if you do not have pressure and expectations
apply to it, why do it? I mean, what am
I doing here? Even if you play golf, you want
at least a quarter?
You know, you said that in spring training, you said, guys,
the expectations are a good thing. Like, think about that.
You've said that and are a little out there on.
Those stretch feet. YEA, yeah it is. It's a good thing.
And I think too many times people run away from
those words and they see them as being a negative
or ominous, And I honestly believe it's completely the opportit
to think about it. And you just talked about the
most disappointing time you ever had was after the twenty
fifteen season, and that totally raised your level of expectation
the next year, and you ran right toward that and
whole thing, that whole shirt that we that I built
up on that that took me some time. That was
done on my iPad, and I wanted, I don't know why,
but I do things like that once in a while.
How could I make the point started with like nine
equals eight here with the Rays in two thousand and eight,
I did that, even like in nineteen eighty six or seven,
I had a shirt for the boys in minor league
and the minor league camp. Every day counts, So that's
where it begins.
This one had together and then after that was nine
is one.
That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. And that
was from that was from That line was from Kendrivisa.
Because I always showed all my stuff to Kenny. So
Kenny I was living in Long Beach too, and Kenny
was right down the street. I would run all my
stuff by the dirt bags before I said Kenny was
set up a meeting. I'd go into the clubhouse of
locker room with the Long Beach State and I would
run my spring training stuff these guys just to practice
rep Yeah, a little prep. That's it. And then Kenny
would always Kenny didn't like the processes frills, he didn't
get it at first, argued about that, and I was
just trying to tell them the process, wax emotion. It's
great if you if you stick to the process, you
could you do anything because you just you just stay
with this, this, this and this, and I don't feel anxiety, emotion, eagerness.
I don't feel any of that. I just I stick
with the process. So that was that was that part
of it. And then you know the parts of the
little ancillary things on the outside of it, you know,
just keeping yourself together. There's something there about uh coach Walsh,
Walsh with these forty nine ers. Was in there a
guy by named Welch with ge uh change before you
have to. I think all these different things are involved
in that, all the things I thought, Yeah, you know,
I just tried to encompass it in this big circle
with a narrow through. That was that was the target.
That was like that weird little aari But anyway, that
was me on an iPad trying to make sense because
how do I sell this to the team. That was
always my thing. All these different things I did in
spring training. With those meetings, I wanted to make it
interesting for you guys, and I wanted to get the
point cross it. Wanted something to hold your attention, and
even right down to the paintings that occurred later. And
also those paintings were for me, hopefully to attract young fans,
like kids that really weren't at the base. Well that's
kind of a cool painting. I mean, so all these
things had a purpose, and yeah, that was that was everything.
Everything had a purpose that I was doing. And there
was a lot of pressure on me in a good
way because I didn't want to disappoint I had I
had to try to outdo myself every year. That's why
I looked at that was my that was my edict
to myself do better than you did last year. That
was it, and that's what I tried to do.
We certainly didn't disappoint, Thank you the greatest second to
Frank Chance.
But Frank's got me two of them, two of them.
Yeah, well we got two rings. We got to think
for average.
That's why we do have to.
We boat raced all year. We had a little blunt
before they all start, which was virtually nothing in the
grand scheme of how I remember you saying, though, this
is what happens when you get off to such a
good start, you have room for error. And then we
kind of went on cruise control and then September, I
feel like the team ramped it back up and our
first our playoff journey was not easy. We have the
even year of the Giants, which is a real was
a real thing, and thank god we came back in
game four because we did not want to see Cuato again.
That's in game five, right, and a lot happened in
that series. Then we go and I'll see us where
we were talking about the move that you went and
with you pinch it al Mora and then they brought
him Blant and then you pinch it Maggie knowing that
Niggy just got a courtizone shot, right?
Did you know that? I did not know that, thank god,
would have mattered.
I remember seeing that that. That to me was like
one of the like the chess played there. You know,
there's things as a player every once in a while,
I was like, wow, our manager's man.
Well, did you know who would we pinch it for?
Originally with do you yeah? Of course you do a
roll this chat. We brought Champion earlier in that game,
and he was holding everything down and I moved them.
I double switched to the point I double switched to
the point where I thought he had never come up.
And then he came up, and the freaking bases are loaded.
So I'm not gonna let Chappie hit right there. So
it took a shot. And then yes, you have to
know in advance that if I send the right We
did the same thing against the Giants when when we
beat him in that fourth game. But anyway, you got
to know that if they do this, we're going to
do that now blind if you remember, it was also
kind of a reverse split guy. He had this that
cutter slider that came out on the left el and
he gets to an O two count, and that might
be one of the loudest home runs that I mean,
off the bat that I think I've ever heard.
I remember, I looking back, I remember Maggie on so
much off speed late in the year. Whether he would like,
you know, I just remember that vividly when he hit
that home run, I'm like, this slider is going to
go right into his But you know it did. Thoughts,
it did freaking he crushed that ball.
It was so loud. But yeah, that was so. I mean, listen,
I'm debating because, like I said, you double switch him.
I think we moved them eight hitters away from where
the leader piter was going to be. So that's that's sake.
We should be able to score some runs by then
then I could actually leave them in if we get
to that point. But sometimes the math doesn't work out.
And that's exactly what happened. And that's because I did
not want to take a roll this out of the game,
but we had to do it at that point, and
then you have to rely on the other dudes. But
that was a big moment and as well as saying
Game four against the Giants, to me, that was the
World Series.
How hard is it looking back now when you're in
that moment, you know, the double switches in the National
League where it's a mastermind of the dude, it was
so good? Or was it just because you love I
remember when you came over here. I love the National League?
The better it is much better, that's right. So but
you're in that moment where NLCS where one hundred and
eight years where we win that series for one of
the World Series. I've been there in what's sixty plus years.
Making those decisions in the heat of the moment is
not be easy.
Well it's not easy, but you think about them in advance.
I mean, that's the whole thing. I mean, I, like
I said, I knew he moved the mate spots, and
then okay, I wasn't worried about it until I had
to start worrying about it, and then you have to
start playing it all the way out and then there's
like who's going to be the pinch it or if
in fact we're going to do that. So that was
the beauty of the Nationalague game. And everybody poop poos
that I'm here to tell you, man, anybody that says
it's just like a double switcher. But I mean there's
so many things that go on. I mean there's times
Davy really helped me out because sometimes I would do
some things that required a lot of movement and I
get lost. Sometimes Davy and Davey would like help me
out with putting it back together, because when you start
doing all the things we did, like moving guys pictures
to the outfield in the back and things like that,
it can get kind of. But here's the thing though,
I loved it because I felt we could have an
advantage because if I know what I'm doing with that,
then that works as an advantage for us versus the
group that's not as bold, you know, doing something. You
got to be bold to do those things. And again,
if you're losing Sky's limit, do whatever you want. If
you're tired or winning, it becomes more difficult. And that's
what you We were up by a run.
Yeah, that's difficult to take your clothes.
That's right. Just trained it for that's right.
That's we got Chapman at that deadline. It was like
just another shot of confidence.
That's group.
I've been on teams for thirteen fourteen years and there
was one time at the deadline that I felt like
as a player. We won the deadline and I was
two and sixteen. Yeah, we traded for Chappy. We went
out and got the best reliever on the market to
solidify already a really deep backend, bultit and it was like, holy.
Shit, and I felt the same way. The only other
time I felt that way was twenty thirteen the Red Sox.
We won and they went out and got Jake pe
who at the time was the best starter at that
all part. You know, when your front office implants like
we know what you need and we're gonna go get
it for you. That's another part of like I think,
winning organizations that just goes unnoticed a lot of the
times because people play the long game. In the safe game,
you only have so often, right you don't I have
so often to.
Go for it. It's all about the long game anywhere. Man,
I don't even know that. Everybody's got a four or
five year plan and nobody ever wins. I mean, I
don't get it. I don't understand all that stuff. I
mean I understand what they're doing, but I don't understand
why they do it. Yeah, THEO made it. Then they
made a great move on that. YEA, well we don't.
We don't do that without all that, without how much
And I mean, listen, I you know, if you remember
at that time, I think Stropie got hurt right at
the end of that sea is that when he know
that's that when he hurt his knee. But he didtase
coming face. He did something right, so and Strophie was
out of the mix a little bit. Hector was like
not as good because he'd been a little bit impacted
by Chapman being there.
Well, I thought, I thought, that's the one thing that
you look back on, and you know, we got Chappy
and then kind of some of our horses that had
driven us got kind of sideline. And from a manager's perspective,
like I think I leaned a lot into veterans.
Like safety for the veterans for me.
But you really did a nice job of like Montgomery
and c. J.
Edwards and like Gris.
Guys, remember remember that, remember that getting out of that
basis loaded jam? What what is that when you see
that as that that your gut, that your your eyes,
you're right eyes eyes.
I think I'm for me, I think it's my eyeballs.
And listen, I I'm so grateful, like I said, or
I think I said it earlier, that it took me
so long to become a major league manager. I scout
it for a long time, and I still consider I
still consider the most important thing I've ever done in
order to become a big league manager successfully would be
to have been a scout, because I think I could
see talent before talent becomes talent sometimes, so Carl Edwards.
I mean, my god, I mean I love that boy. Yeah,
it was devastating. And then I mean, how about Montgomery.
I mean, and I didn't realize it at the time,
but of course bors he did. The last side of
the World Series, Martinez was sitting like one ten against
Lieutenant curveballs. So he's just feeding Mickey curveball.
Curving that you know right exactly, it's theirs. It had
not seen one at batanding.
And we know that that's what he did. That's what
our that's what I'm sorry. Guys were prepared. You're talking
about process and preparation, like everybody was on board doing
their job at that moment, and.
So you have you have that.
I thought it was a genius too, because Rajie was
going to steal that bad.
I couldn't believe you didn't go.
I couldn't believe. I was like, he's going right.
I for for a first pitch, I thought he was
going I think the left.
He scared him a little bit. You're right, just a
little bit. You're a little bit harder. So like probably
something that you don't equate for actually helps out because
I'm thinking, well, you bring him in before that was
like well, Raji's fixing steel. He's a second now Base
ties it out.
CJ wasn't good at holding runners on either.
No, no, no, no no.
What was your process? Like, what are you telling your
staff going into the World Series where all this pressure
on journey of your career. It's real, right, we did
a great job at quieting it, but you're the lead
bull with your with your coach. Is it business as usual?
Is it? Don't change your thing, don't change your thing,
No more meetings, don't get try to get smarter. Uh,
just just do what we've been doing all year. I
think that's the trap. Teams that try to get smarter,
add more information, We're scott to reports, more people in
the clubhouse, more more data, and uh at analysts coming
downstairs to try to help you out. I ran into
it with the late nineteen ninety Angels, which we didn't
never really got anywhere. But we get closer to the
playoffs at the end of the year, and all of
a sudden, everybody beat it. The skint of reports that
get bigger, giving guys more information.
More people around.
Oh my god, It's like, are you kidding me? It's
the exact opposite. Sure, it's less info, it's less people around,
it's it's status quo as much as you possibly can.
If you remember, I didn't take VP one time in
because I didn't want to go out to the soap opera.
That's that's finny bkab and I think that's two. We
just stayed in. You guys did all right well, but
that's because of back you gave us. We had that
level of confidence that we can do that. There's a
lot of guys that I feel like they have.
To go and do it. See, that's just that's just
that's the classic cover my ass situation. That is has
nothing to do with anything you know or believe. That's
covering my butt. That's all that is. All. This choreography
before the games is also a cover of my butt situation.
I want listen, if somebody needs ex work, I'm I'm there.
I'll be the first guy out there. I want them,
I want them out there. But if you don't necessarily
need early work or don't need it every day, an
athlete that is both mentally and physically not tired is
much better than all these different work that you want
to put out there that you're going to get a
mentally or physically exhausted. They don't realize people that really
haven't done it. You can't hold that many thoughts. You
can't hold that many thoughts. Too simple better, I'd write,
I don't want you holding that many thoughts. I can't
hold that many thoughts. Although I will say this, and
I've always said this, you could inundate the staff with
as much intel as you possibly want, but then it's
up to the staff to give you the nuggets that
we think are necessary. Like bors he's Bor's. He's better
than any analytical staff there is to prepare a game
plan on.
Any I used to have Borsey after every year Mike
started catching break me down fully what I wasn't because
it's so hard as everyday player realized where you're missing
when you're When year Freddie Freeman told me, he was like, hey,
we don't play you the rest of this year, and
I don't think we're going to see each other in
the playoffs. And he goes, you're not swinging at first
pitch breaking balls, and I'm like, what, I didn't know
that I get traded. It's twenty twenty one. I get
traded in the playoffs that year first pitch breaking ball
from Evaldi. I'm aware of this now, Gomer and the wild.
Card with the Yankees.
Information is powerful, it's crazy.
But sometimes you just don't know. And then of course
when you have people that you trust that tell you
these things. But if you don't trust them and they
tell you these things, you're.
Like, that's right, get out of it. It's it's not
it's useless.
At that point, Game seven start started talking.
I do want to start talking the World Series?
Yeah?
How special was that?
My god? Just yeah, you'd been throughing for with the
race I did with the Rays, then the Angels. So
we went with the Angels in two thousand and two,
but I was the bench coach, raise as a manager,
and that was think about it. That team, I think
when seventy games year before, you know, seventy I think
maybe sixteen, I don't even know. But then you go
and you we didn't win the division. We were the
wildcard team, but you end up playing the Phillies in
the World Series. We beat the Red Sox, so you
remember the ground ball. I mean we were up three
to one in that and you guys came back games.
That was eight.
We talked about the first time we met and we
had the same agent going through my lefting tickets young Buck, Yeah,
left in tickets.
I was with the Red Sox though, so I was
happy they won Game six. But we're there, yeah, and
we are down three to one. Yeah, And I was like, no,
this ain't happening because last year we were down three
when it was like our win was out of the sales.
But this year we last year we went in and
like we were talking and all this stuff and what
we leave in the clubhouse, we do if we just
won game five, right, because that was a gauntlet of
a game.
What was your take on? I had a pizza party
that night. My kids were in town. I had pizza
at the I was living right off Lake Shore. We
had a big room downstairs. I went at the I
don't know if I rented. We just got it it all.
My kids were there, A bunch of my mom was there.
Pizza party. I really felt good. I felt our pitchings
was lined up properly for the for the games in Cleveland.
I did. I never lost faith, absolutely not. We That
was Halloween. I wore a Halloween outfit on the bus.
It was like a suit with a bunch of daggers,
and I wanted to try to keep it as normal
as you possibly can. That's that's always been my method.
When you when you when you, when you stop being,
get a normal outside your normal pass that's what people
as I tend to go up. So my my main
objective is always to keep it as real as you
possibly can. But I never I never lost faith. I
never did. I Arieta and Kyle, I felt good.
I felt lesser.
Game five too, Chapman came in. I think in like
the seventh, there was no what else do you do? Yeah,
there's no Game six, there's no fun.
So that was the one thing. I think the only
thing I ever questioned was leaving him in to go
out in the ninth in game six, right, I just
hit the homer, that's right, And I remember the dugout.
Like can we get Travis Wooden? Like yeah?
And he went back out.
I think he looked a gun four straight pictures out
of him and I took him out.
That I think that was the only time because right
as a player, I would always I would always ask
you questions because I wanted to know like and I
felt like I knew you perfectly.
No you're right, I mean I was. I was torn
on that. When I had I already had talked to
I think Boss about getting somebody else up in case
something happening scored a bunch of runs. It was in
my head. The problem with me was that I've been
burning Cleveland in the past. In that particular bar I
had been. I mean just with the Angels. I think
we were leading like nine to one or nine to two,
either the eighth or ninth any with personal in the
game and lost the game. So it's just stupid stuff
like that. And but it worked out. But there's no game.
There's no game seven if you don't win game six,
that kind of thing. Also, so it's I can't defend
my choice right there. It worked out fine, But I
knew watching Chappie thwar to the first hitter, get him out,
he was like he was pissed. He
was pissed too, I thought he was, or yeah.
Six or yeah, it was like you run Homer separated, right,
that was.
A separator, right, but but no, But the point was
I bought him in because Lindor was hitting, and we
got out of a big situation with Lindor in that game.
And again, if you don't win that, you don't you
don't play game seven.
So well, and we I talked about going back to
the little bit that I got to manage is like
you get burned from a game, you know, like those
games that somebody comes back.
My memory is too good.
It sticks, It sticks, no doubt time out of times,
like yeah, this manager was burned because of this or that,
like they start telling stories about because you get like
you think it. You can't take any for granted, and
then the World Series is going to be No I
want the guy out there throwing a hundred Okay, how
much were up?
I know that was That's the one thing I agree,
and I've actually said that publicly that that's the one
thing that I knew was wrong. I did it and
then but we rectified it because he needed to pitch
the next day obviously.
Yea game in game seven? Did we do a shot
before Game seven? Did the whole staff?
I think we did. Yeah?
Yeah, so we all pregame do our shot toasts last
game of the season. Right, Well, you guys you told me, yeah,
you guys had a good conversation.
Yeah, great conversation.
Yeah, but what about what happened.
Your plan was. It's like you never really I hadn't
been in your office much all year, and you know,
you're always kind of down. You you keep things so
close to the vest as far as like, really, what
you're going to do in a game. And you told me, hey,
you're coming in with Johnny, I don't know when the
next the next day, and then uh remember going down
in a bullpen and how crazy that was. And then
I came in early, not knowing what's going on. We
had a me you and BOS had that conversation about
how's he look and I remember saying, uh, like, he
looks great, but I don't know how many bullets he's
got it right? He was firing I've never seen.
You said, is as good as you've seen him throw
the baseball? Something that yeah, he was, he was.
He was just wanted to go in the game.
That was right. And I didn't even consider that right right,
but I should have. But no, that's what you told me.
You told me how good he was. Yeah, and I
trusted and you.
Trust your players, beauty.
But that we talked earlier, like you're just you. You
didn't go in your office with an idea and you
not go I love it. You know what I mean,
Let's do it. I mean Lester taking me out of
the game. He told the story about you guys taking
me out.
Yeah, exactly.
He just came in your office like, I love it,
let's do it.
I was not thinking about that. Yeah, you know that
was all John Johnny.
He told me that that's like super cool. But I
remember when you took Kyle out. I'd never Kyle's stoic
right zen Master, he had his glove in his mouth.
I was fucking pitching around him because he pitched around
walks Intanna faced kidness because he kind of owned he
thought he owned kidness, and we.
Love the kidness matchup. I remember talking about.
Yeah, and that was the first time I ever heard
emotion from Hendricks. And now looking back with experience ten
years later, it's like, if if Hendricks knew that you
may have pulled him, he would have pitched to Santana differently,
because it was like, all if I, if I don't
get him out, then he starts maybe pitching a little scared, right,
So it's maybe in the moment you're like, no, he
should have pitched the kidness right, But it's like all
these things that pictures. When pitchers get that hundred pitch mark,
now they're pitched differently because if I don't get this guy,
if they're going batter to batter. So you look back
on it with more wisdom and it's like, thank God,
he didn't know the whole thing that he was on
a pitch.
The building was precipitated not by Kipness, but it was
by Lindor because we talked about Johnny and not bringing
Johnny to a dirty inning. I did not consider Santana
on first base only with two ounces of dirty inning.
I just did. Yeah, I didn't, That was not my
interpretation of that. But if Kidness gets on and Santana's on,
that's two guys on with two outs, and that is
dirty and that I did not want to bring Johnny
into that. So it was almost like I mentally my
hand was forced to do what I did when I
did it because I did not want to have Johnny
on that out there with multiple runners, and I liked
a lot the Kidness Johnny relationship. Johnny had warmed up.
That was the second time warming up already, so you'd
have sat down if he did not use him there
to warmed up the third time to bring him out
in the game, and at that point it worked out.
If he would have made a good throw, he almost killed.
There was a swinging bot and the defensive guy may
have shown his leg. No, no, I mean I'm talking
about I like, I'm not in there for my bat.
And then there were Johnny that you.
Hit the big home limit I did. It's not about
you though, It's.
Not about me. But no, I mean it was a
swinging bump from getting this. We had him two and
I threw it away and then Johnny knows. I remember
the Scalle report talking about Boresy no strike breaking balls
to Lindor. So he shakes the breaking ball throws. I
got thirty foot, its off my mask. I trip over
my leg. You know, two runs going right?
Wait a minute, what happens the game?
We just two back in?
I was it was.
It was nuts.
But so that's the people don't understand that the move
was made on uh the not dirty inning. If if
Kyle doesn't get out Kipness, then now it is bad.
But I do want to lefty on Lindor. Yeah, I
want him hitting right handed. So there's a lot going
on right there.
And Johnny up a third ten. That's the other thing
we talked about. Yeah, he's firing bullets and been up twice.
I probably can't get him back up.
And that's another thing. It's all it's very that's that's
a really difficult jigs up. And believe me, I'm thinking
all this stuff in that nano second. It's not like, oh,
it after us. It was. It was all going on now.
We had already wounded up Montgomery earlier in the game
a little bit, I think early on, because if you remember,
Kyle was being hit around a little bit earlier before
that some art contact. But then again, if you bring
Kyle in that particular situation, I mean Montgomery Mikey, then
Mikey doesn't get the last out of the game. I mean,
it's just like the world, the world would happen. Yeah,
it's just how the world played out. So I'm not
a revisionist historian. How it happened is how it happened.
That was real. So we could you could do all
the what ifs and how about whatever. It's exactly a
dock down buy stuff.
Right.
I say this with all due respects. I can say
whatever I want, right, that's right, that the fact that
that's right three days after we win the World Series
and the media is like, why would we they do that?
We just fucking wrote one hundred years how to pray
to a billion people, five million plus people, and there's
articles being written saying Joe should have did this, right,
get the fuck out of here my language.
No, not that. I mean that's what's done all the
time now, right. I mean that would have been like
normal pristandard procedure to get Kyle out in the fifth inning,
see and Kip this for the third time, that would
have been like because no one's even questioned exactly exactly
right going into that.
Season, Kyle was like third time through got hit a
little bit harder. Remember that.
Yeah, yeah it was, But it was only based on
what I'm telling you. It's just then the fact that
if Kipness gets on and I want Johnny on the door,
that would have been the dirty thing. I was not
looking for. That was so I was trying to get
ahead of that moment. Kip this with Johnny was a
really good matchup, and we got what we're looking for.
It's just a tough play that that ball rolled out
farther than you thought, that's what I saw? Yeah, for sure,
it kept going, kept going away from you. Yeah, so
fucking he's a he's a brick.
I rushed the throat my hand. He grabbed me a
little bit when stretched a little more.
What about when ra hits the homer?
Yeah?
What what are you thinking?
I said to Davy, I said, who's up for his
next inning? That's the first thing that I went, man,
that for his next inning? Right, who's up for his
next inning? That's it? I mean I thought that. And
then the the more difficult part was who to send
out in the ninth inning? We sent out said, right,
the fact that Chappie got through the ninth amazing is
like its owns.
How many times have you seen a closer blow it
in the eighth?
Right?
I don't think Miggie gets enough credit. I agree with
the break like like I look back on, I was
calling all heaters because I didn't catch Chappie that much.
We would we would he would come in with Miggi.
Or Contraras, and so I was like, we're catching scared.
Maybe, well, I knew the sky was said no sliders,
and then I didn't know the splitting wasn't really a
factor that year. So I just kept like, oh, it's
one hundred, he'll pop it up, and I did.
He just went further than I wait, just to it
done into his bathroom.
Ye yeah, and I looked. I remember looking, he's she
was choking on the back like Corona. Yeah, well plug there.
So Raj hits the home run. I'm at first saying this,
this fucking curse is real, like playing dirty numb, my
full body numb, and you're going.
That is like, that's why I said, I asked David
that immediately.
I never I moved. I turned the page a lot
as a catcher that I just remember. I kept going
back to God, dang it like Eli, like you know,
like it took me a minute just to turn.
A page, like you hit the home run rain delay. Right,
we're in there, Chappy just got traded. He's like he's
instantly one of our brothers. He's in there with tears
in his eyes. Right, feels so bad, and it's like,
how can you feel bad?
Do you?
You've thrown forty innings postseason right a horse and then
comes out later with your story with your dad's hate
And was that a moment that just came out of
nowhere for you.
That's twice I've done that. My dad was in the
dugout for the two thousand and two when World Series
for the Angels. Also wow wow. My dad passed in
two thousand and two, so he died in April fifteen,
two thousand and two. So we're the Angels in the
World Series in two thousand and two. I had his
hat in my backpack, which it took to every ballpark.
So I ran upstairs in that game against the Giants
and I brought it down. I used to have that
little table set up in Anheim Stadium in the corner there,
and I put the hat underneath my book looking out
at the field. So he was been to two World
Series victories. So that time in Cleveland, I went up
there and I said, screwed. I put in the back
my my pants like your belt is. I stuffed it
down and there so I thought nobody would see it.
And I think I had the jacket on it at
that time, so I figured it was not going to
be seen, so I put it. I was during the rainelay, right, yeah,
went upstairs and rangewl and did that. That's right.
Was amazing? Was uh?
When during that rain delay. Well, I mean there was
tears in the weight room.
I don't I don't go there. I I just I
went upstairs. I wanted to see the weather map. How
long this is going to last?
Seven?
Jed was there, Jed Hoyer was up there, were looking
at the map. I can't remember exactly what I talked
to him about, but it's a it's a real It's
one of those, you know, obviously horrible moments. But you
guys did you guys did great. I mean, after that
meeting with with Jason, I walked out in the field
and I said, damn, I mean, you guys.
Look like ghosts and ghosts.
Yeah, but y'all look like the game was just get
ready to begin. That's that's I mean, the energy was
outstanding before was leading off. He walks by me and
it's like he's like this guy throws me to cut around.
I'm not gonna you know, saw, and I'm like, I
was like rais in that sta. Remember we worked on
that during.
Series was lost this year on a bad secondary lead.
That's right.
We won arguably the Ones World series because of a.
Read that he stuff we had worked on.
Standards we did, We worked on that stuff. We were
protocol says, don't tag go halfway.
That's right. I'm read it, and I think I think
Hyder was screaming from the attack of the bank.
Yeah, really good coaches, Yeah yeah, yeah, it's how did
you celebrate when the whole thing was done? What went
through your mind on that that last out?
I was exhausted. I mean, I thought, when you caught
the ball, I thought one and eight. That was my
first thought, and I thought of my my my dad
of course, and then my family. But also I get
really happy for the coaches. Don't take that wrong, because
it's really important for the coaches, you know, the salary
they make compared to what everybody else to make. So
because I was a coach, so I'm really happy for
the coaching staff that this is going to be really
benefit their family. I really that's one of the first
things I think about. And then of course I just
watch you guys through the dog pile out there, and
it's you know, it's fabulous. So it's really weird because
it's such an exhausting moment. I mean, to get to
that point, to get to the seventh game of the
World Series, after everything that the prepp for spring training,
spring training, regular season, playoffs on top of playoffs, on
top of playoffs, down games, three games to one, come back,
get in a position, win and then actually win it.
Like you're saying, there's nothing to be critical over that point,
it's it's just like there's so many ebbs and flows
to that moment, and everything somehow is to break your
way at the right moment. It just has to. You know,
the base there's good baseball luck and there's bad baseball luck.
So maybe the good baseball luck and nobody talks about
is the fact that they they the Indians took out
Coco Crisp for defensive purposes for Martinez. Had they not,
then he's hitting in that particular spot and much more
formidable hitter than Martin. So so when you start, you
start what if what if? That's what if? It is life?
It's life, I mean, what if what if such an
iconic world you win Tito Tito as a manager, historic
Hall of Fame manager as well.
Well.
The Indians were sixty plus years, we're one hundred and
eight years. The fans were just so into it, everyone
was so happy we win. The celebration is just absolutely epic, right, Yeah,
and it changes our lives course whatever. Ten years later
we're talking about this reunion.
It's going to get even more prominent as we moved
along the the the war, the way that the fables
waste being told. Twenty years from now, thirty years from that,
I was going to grow.
Yeah, hopefully.
Did you feel like it was harder looking back on
setting expectations and twenty fifteen of how you were changing
the culture and the winning ways or managing the expectations
in sixteen, I mean it was a year to Yeah, I.
Think you know, just the way you describe that, just
they go hand in hand, right, I mean you have
to set the expectations and then you have to manage them.
I say, when it comes down to managing expectations, I'm
more about setting them, you know, and I don't really
necessarily worry about managing them. I think that if you
set it up right and you got the right group,
and you know, you work your day properly kind of
takes care of itself, I think. I mean I never
I never really think about that phrase to manage my expectations,
but I do think about setting them up if.
It feels like there's a couple of times that we've
talked that of, like you just stay in the process.
I do. I'm pretty good in a moment. I'm pretty
good present tense guy. There are certain times I'll get
I'll get outside of that process when you're tired a
little bit, you know, maybe something bad happening, You're just
your confidence might have taken a little bit of a hit.
But for the most part, I'm able to get back there.
I don't I don't know how much of it's kenra
visit and all the training I did with Kenny, even
as a coach. I mean as a player though I
was playing quarterback when I was ten, right, my own
plays when you're ten years old, you know, So there's
something to be said for that. I mean, I actually
called my own plays when I was ten, and they
stay Trooper Eagles, State Trooper Eagles huddle. I'm calling the
plays and I ad audibles to call to. So what
does that mean when you're ten years old? How does
that play fifteen, twenty thirty years down the road. I
don't know, but I did. And I was a captain
on almost every team that I played on. If I wasn't,
so you always have this responsibility kind of thing, and
do you be both are probably the same way. So
how does that actually translate into being able to stay
in a moment accepting responsibility. The probably way to lead
for me is not through intimidation, but through in communication.
That's the appropriate way to lead. And I think my
best dudes, and I've talked and talked about Bob Clear
in my book. Bob Clear was my guy with the Angels.
He was like the best baseball coach I've ever been around.
And then coach Bob Root my backfield, my quarterback coach
at Loafiat College. This man, God, I just one of
the best communicators to me. And if I came off
the field and I did the right thing or to
call the right play and he validated it, my god,
did I get puffy, you know, because I just respected
him so much. Communication.
Think about think about in your time not only with
the Cubs. We'll talk about the Cubs in specific, how
many lives you've touched as far as fans, players, legacy.
There's things that you said that I said today about
what I took with me as a player that I
used my whole life. And it was like, and I
tell you this ten eleven years later and you remember
these things. Yeah, it's not the Ricky Bobby. I was
high when I said that, Like you you genuinely, you
genuinely remember because in that moment of my life, it
was the biggest like aha moment for me that I
learned and took with me. And there's hundreds of players
that you've probably touched or along your journey, right which
is just insane to think about. You know, when you
live a life, what do you want to leave behind
the legacy?
And it's like you're you're pushing me back to my
minor league days right now too, absolutely, because I mean
starting out as a minor league coach in nineteen eighty one,
I was twenty seven, Like I had Dicky Scholfield and
Devon White on my first team in Idaho Falls as
an example. And if I wrote down all the lists
of the guys, you do unbelievable that I that made
the really good major league players. And it is it's
it's it's ominous to think that the one thing because
but you never think about that. I never think about that.
Ricky Lee Jones, songwriter, singer, she wrote, you never know
when you're making a memory.
You know.
Yeah, you just never know when you're making a memory
or whenever you're making an impact, because I've never I
never evaluate myself that way. I don't. I really appreciate
what you guys are saying.
You've made an impact for us?
Can too?
You don't bring cah Ken? Yeah right, yeah, bring this
story ken, Ken.
I'll say as quick, can have me do a drill
in spring training, close my eyes, do my whole pregame
batting routine, like from the on deck circle to the box.
It times me.
Yeah, He's like the elites get it within a second.
I got it within a second. He's like, you'll be
surprised how many guys go through their entire visualization process
and get it within like a second of when they
opened their eyes.
Okay.
And I carried that with me for every whenever I
was in a rut, I would go through my process.
I remember jumping on Aaron Judges back one time. Right,
oh yeah, you do that absolutely. I was all the
time about Ken and are you breathing?
Man?
Are you breathing? That's right?
And he would jump on my back if I was struggling.
Hey man, I gotta get on your back. You feel
the weight of the world get off your shoulder there,
and it's like these little things that just make the
biggest impact in lives, and you've certainly done that for me.
You've certainly done that for me. So this is like
I was, I'm so happy.
Look, this has been amazing. You've You've obviously impacted a lot,
and we're so thankful for how you impacted. This has
been really fun for us and we've got all year
to celebrate this. Any advice you would give Joe Madden
from you, you're talking a lot about minorly days to
now you're no longer managing and all the crazy impact
you've had in between, Like what advice would you give
to our baseball people that are listening or fans and
some of the stuff that's helped you out the most
that we can. Yeah, I mean we need one more
nugget from you.
Yeah. I actually put it on a T shirt once,
and I think the word comes out to authenticity. I mean, everybody,
everybody wants to be like everybody else. They're so we
have influencers everywhere right now, and of course I had
influencers too, no question, and watch the weight. I wear
white shoes when I play football because name of it whatever,
I wear bigger face mask. But at the end of
the day, don't run away from who you are and
what you believe in. And also know what you believe
in too. I mean, it's not that you can't be
you can't make adaptations or be flexible. You have to be,
but at the end of the day, just really know
what you believe in and put it out there. I
think to t times people will attempt to say what
they think somebody wants to hear. We've already kind of
covered this, but put out there with what you what
you truly believe in, and I think the respect you
get in return for that is greater that because even
if the person you're speaking with doesn't agree with what
you're saying, they'll probably listen to that and take it
to heart, and maybe you're gonna make an impact in
that authentic way, because if you if you choose to
not really be who you are or authentic, it's really
difficult to copy or put that fake thing out there
on a daily basis, which a lot of people do exactly.
It's it's it's very transparent, right. So I just think
the word authenticity had never run away from it, and
and and authenticity cannot be manufactured. It's got to be organic. Yeah,
thank you. Love done, guys, You got.
Why such you guys look back.
Und H