Mike Whan, the USGA‘s New CEO, on the Future of Golf

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at B Dratty. It is a fall. I am going to be on the ground at the Ryder Cup next week and I see some cooler temperatures in the forecast. So one new item that I just got. We gave them out at our most recent event at White Bear Yacht Club, the Regatta, and we have a new item that's going in the pro shop with this with a with a logo on it is the Dratty Sport Blair half sip. I believe it's named after Zach Blair. I'm not positive. It could be another Blair, it could be a first name Blair. I'm not sure. But anyways, this is a new half zip that is in the line for B Dratty this fall. It is awesome. It's that sport material that everybody knows, but it's done Dratty way, which is it's got a unique feel. The different she said from a lot of the sport materials that you feel like you're putting like a bag over yourself. This uh, this material, it's really soft, breatheable, but it's warm and it's it's a great fit. It's it's i'd say it's a little bit snugger than most dratis, So if you're kind of in between sizes, size up. But it is a great piece and uh, I can't wait for to have some of them in the shop. Of course, you can buy this on bdradty dot com today. You can use the code tf E twenty five for twenty five percent off and get ready for fallball in most of the north part of the States. So check out that Dratty Sport Blair half zip and thank you to be Dratty for all the support this year. Today's episode is with the CEO of the us GA, the new CEO of the USGA, Mike Wand. We have talked to Mike in the past when he was the commissioner of the LPGA. We interviewed Mike this week at Chicago Golf Club, one of the five founding clubs of the u s g A, and had a chat that centered around championship venues, municipal golf, and of course distance. So without further ado, here is the new CEO of the USGA, Mike Wand I miss a green for example, I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: A brid Egg Frida Egg the Friday Fridaygridagg Bride Egg, Lie, I'm about.

00:02:33
Speaker 3: Ready to run off the golf course. Mike.

00:02:58
Speaker 1: We're here at Caigo Golf, one of the founding five clubs of the USGA. I'm curious. I know you've been digging into the history of the USGA, and these clubs were fundamental in getting the USBA started. What do you think their role is now in American golf?

00:03:17
Speaker 3: You know, first, let me take the first part of your question.

00:03:19
Speaker 2: So when I got to the USGA, I went over to the museum, I think on my second day, and I asked for a little tour of, you know, through the history, and in the museum hangs the first page of the original constitution written by the five clubs. And I got to tell you, as a Chicago and as a Naperville guy, to see Chicago Golf Club, it hit me.

00:03:39
Speaker 3: And when today when.

00:03:39
Speaker 2: I got to the club in their lobby, their historian said to me, this is the only place this is on display, and it's the same thing. It's the first page. And I'm like, it's not the only place is on display. And what I did from the museum is I asked the museum to take a picture of that page. I had it blown up and framed and out hangs in my office because I want everybody who walks into my own to return to how the USJA was.

00:04:03
Speaker 3: Originally formed in eighteen ninety four.

00:04:05
Speaker 2: You know, I started the tournament the LPGA called the Founders because I wanted our members, my staff, my board, young girls to remember, like where the roots of the LPGA are and this place where we're sitting in Chicago, this is the roots of the USJ.

00:04:19
Speaker 3: So I think these.

00:04:21
Speaker 2: Clubs understood their responsibility for the future of this game before we did. And so I said to them, I feel a responsibility back to them and hope they still feel it to us that this was formed to create national championships. It was formed to create common governance and rules, and it was formed to make sure golf was better thirty years from.

00:04:41
Speaker 3: The time they signed the document. Now it's one hundred and thirty years.

00:04:44
Speaker 2: But I think we all still have the same responsibility, you know, to create championships where the best can play and showcase, to create governance whereby we can all play under the same set of rules and most importantly to make sure that our kids' kids have a better game than we do. And I don't think anything's changed eighteen ninety four.

00:05:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously the founder here, Stevie McDonald, was a big part of the founding of the USGA because you know, his many rules controversies were what was spurned. We need to have an ideal set of rules. You know, it might have been a store loser, but more and more so he needed the rules.

00:05:20
Speaker 3: So same thing might be true for the For the US Amateur.

00:05:23
Speaker 2: I think a few people were calling it their national ampat championship, and he didn't win those first two, so we decided those two weren't weren't weren't official, so let's make sure we create one official. Then of course, I think in the third amateur played, he won, so that one was now official.

00:05:38
Speaker 1: So with these with these clubs, obviously they you know, they founded it. I'm we're gonna see the country Club next year as a you know, hosting a national championship. You got Shinnecock National Championship. You know Newport's had national championships. Is that kind of you know, obviously the historical aspect a big part of them becoming more or championship courses or do they have a fundamental role other than just those are the clubs that started the USGA.

00:06:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't say that.

00:06:07
Speaker 2: You know, we sit around the USGA and talk about the five courses and what things that we're going to do with the five courses, but we're like anybody else.

00:06:14
Speaker 3: I mean, we're like any other business.

00:06:16
Speaker 2: You respect that when the NHL talks about the founding clubs and Chicago, you know gets the.

00:06:21
Speaker 3: Respect there too.

00:06:22
Speaker 2: It's it matters your roots, it matters where you started, and the fact that we can have championships at these at these facilities.

00:06:30
Speaker 3: Is cool.

00:06:31
Speaker 2: It's not mandatory. I don't think we don't think that that has to take place. But I think there's only a few clubs that can take the pride the fact that they that they envisioned the USGA before the USGA did, and I think as a result, there's there's always gonna be something special between us and them. I mean, when I walked down to this property, I felt the history not just to this property, but I felt the history of the of the foresight. You know, right wrong or indifferent the foresight to create, you know, a governing body, and I feel the responsibility to make sure that you know, in the next at least ten years, that I helped push that, you know, pass that baton farther and push the you know, the definition of what we should be doing for the game to a new level with.

00:07:10
Speaker 1: A you know, kind of pushing it in a direction. Obviously, there's a lot of things. Golfs in a boom right now, it's more popular than ever. So what are the big issues that obviously you're just getting your feet wet, you're first year on the job, and you know, what are the big you know kind of issues that are coming across your desk as as of now, Like, what are the kind of the things that you've focused on in your first few months.

00:07:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean i'd love to I mean, that's that's an answer that could take a while, but I think I could probably build it under a few key categories. It's what I'm asking all of us to do with the USJ is to is to assess our championships and make sure they're at least as strong as they were twenty years ago, and show me a plan to make sure that we believe they'll be even stronger twenty years from now. I don't think we want to take our national championships as a given. I think we want to continue to push ourselves and make sure we're we're pushing that, whether that's where we play, purses, television coverage, fan experience. I think I think we've got to keep asking ourselves, you know, wherever we thought we were in nineteen eighty five or or two thousand and five, are we going to be there in twenty thirty five. So we spent a lot of time on championships, I think we spend a lot of time on the topics of uniting the game, whether that's course ratings, world handicapping system, jins, all things we can do to make sure that players around the world can really get connected to this game. The other thing that I've spent more time on than I really thought I would spend time on is how are we being an efficient and effective partner in the game and for these courses. You know, we have an incredible agronomy program, an incredibly green section. Are we making that accessible to everybody? How can we take that to the next level? How do we make sure we're providing help and some courses, maybe Chicago Golf Club doesn't need our help, but maybe Springbrook does, and are we available to that. I only use Springbrook because it's my hometown growing up. Course, But you know, is the USGA being the kind of partner it needs to be across the board. And so I'm new, of course, and I'm just kind of looking at those things saying I want to make sure that I always say that the USJA is like the role player on a basketball team. I don't care if tonight you need me to set picks, guard their best scorer or be the best scorer. Let's agree that we'll be whatever it takes or whatever topic. So I think a lot of times, a lot of times big corporations like the USJ think they always have to be at the front of the preade, they have to be leading the initiative. I don't feel that at all. I feel like, if if Jay's going to lead drive chip and putt, how can we help. If Augusta is going to lead or a lead drive trip, how can we Jay's gonna lead firstd how can we help? If Seth is onto something at the PGA with regards to junior league. How do we get involved in help push that We don't always have to be at the front of the parade. Sometimes we just have to be supporting the parade. And I think there's so many good ideas in the game that we don't. I feel like sometimes at the USJ we almost are ashamed that all we did is row a check to somebody. Well, sometimes that's all that somebody needed, was a check. Sometimes they need us to actually take a much bigger role. And I don't want to be the kind of role I want to be the kind of role player that said, whatever golf needed, the USJA was a trusted partner that could be there for them. And sometimes that means we're gonna have to be in the front and at the microphone talking about what's next. And sometimes we'll be we'll be just one in the crowd helping them get there. But I think the game needs to count on us to be a partner where we're needed.

00:10:17
Speaker 1: It sounds almost like parenting maybe.

00:10:21
Speaker 2: Although parenting sometimes I feel like I feel like we have to do more of the scolding, and I think in this case we have to do more of the supporting.

00:10:28
Speaker 3: You know, it's maybe parenting once your kids get to college.

00:10:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that your answer brought up a topic that I was interested in talking about a little bit. It was what's the usba's role kind of in supporting municipal golf. Obviously we've seen varying levels of support from the USGA over the years from you know, you look at the Best Page Black situation, where that was you know, fully involved getting one of the great municipal facilities that in the United States restored and you know, bringing a championship there and obviously with Tory Pines this year, that was the last you know, championship golf event on you know, big time championship golf scheduled for municipal golf. And I think that's obviously the most obvious and visible us GA municipal golf role, you know, kind of collaboration. But I'm interested in how do you view us GA, the U s g A and supporting municipal golf, which is so fundamental in where people get the start in the game.

00:11:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna say something here that I don't normally say. And you'll get a kick out of this, but I don't normally say, if at all, I've got a lot to learn in that area, because usually I think I've of course got all the answers, but I do have a lot to learn in that area. I what I would tell you is, I think we spend too much time talking about championships when we talked about different venues, and not enough time talking about what do they need, period, because the championship is one golf course and it's one moment. But you know, we've got you know, we've got thousands of golf courses that we need to figure out how to become a better partner too. And what I've learned, if nothing else than sixty days, is there's not a one size fits all when it comes to venue support, when it comes to really being a partner to golf courses. Some of them need agronomy help, some of them want to really talk to the green section. Some of them need need you know, need guidance on how to run their own championships. Some of us need membership growth or gin support or how can we do a better rating. So what I think we've got to figure out a way to do is is how do we become a better consultant to the golf courses that want it and need it, and some don't need us at all. And I think we got to get over ourselves that if some don't need us at all, that's just fine. We don't have to be everybody's answers. So I really don't know yet. I've just I just fund I was just talking to somebody before you walked in, and I said, I can promise you in six or seven months, you're going to hear about Mike Wand's big bold leadership initiatives. I don't know what they're going to be yet, but there's going to be four or five things that I'm going to lay on the table and say, in the next five to ten years, we're going to get there. I'm not exactly sure what those what those what those initiatives are, but that's kind of what I've always done. I mean, when I got to the LPGA, I think one year, and I said, we're gonna get this. We're gonna get the future golf to fifty to fifty men and women. At the time, I think it was I don't know twenty percent of junior golf was women. It's, you know, close to it's almost forty percent.

00:13:11
Speaker 3: Now.

00:13:11
Speaker 2: So I didn't get there, but I'm not I'm not ashamed of the fact that I threw it on the table, made us challenge ourselves. I want to have some big, bold initiatives of what we're gonna do as the USGA. What what are we gonna sign up for and over the next fifteen to thirty years, not willing to back down on. And I've got my head around three or four of them. I'm just not ready to go public yet. But when we get there, there's there's got to be a few things. As a leader in the sport, we've got to be the one who wakes up every day and says, thirty years from now, we're gonna get here, because I don't think everybody else can spend time thinking about thirty years now. They've got members to serve and things to generate this quarter or this month of this year. But I want to be the one that says, in thirty years, here's what we're gonna get, we're gonna help golf get to and then not be willing to back down over the next thirty and getting those right and getting my members, my volunteers, and my board to get behind those I think is really is really my job.

00:14:04
Speaker 1: It's it's got to be an interesting transition. Obviously, you were wildly successful with you know, your leadership at the LPGA. I think you know where LPGA is today. Obviously it helped you know, television, more televisision exposure and highlighting the great players on the LPGA tour has has brought new popularity of this sport. You know, having that being probably was a little bit easier of a problem in the sense of it was it was so it's the LPGA, and we're going to focus on our core product. With the USGA, You've got so many different areas of the game of golf. It's really it encompasses all of golf and then also a lot more people that you know, you collaborate with within it beyond you know, just whether it be sponsors, tournament organizers and uh, you know, venues and players you have, you know, every you have, you have all those as well as many other people that you work with. How is the you know, kind of determining those key fundamental priorities is it Has it been a little bit more difficult than say the LPGA, or is it you know, how do you go about that process.

00:15:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are different, but I would tell you that one thing is completely true. You'll never show me a really successful business or brand that was.

00:15:26
Speaker 3: Pretty good on a bunch of stuff.

00:15:28
Speaker 2: They're great on a few things. And to be great at a few things, you have to say no to a bunch of other stuff. And and I think that'll be that'll be a challenge for me in this job. I mean, I think I think sometimes the USJA wants to be able to say, yes, we did no matter what the question was. Yes, we did a little bit there, and we did a little bit there, We wrote a check to them, we helped them on such and such, And I'd rather say no, we didn't a few times to be really great at a few things. And I think and I think that's you know, that's feasible. The good news for me is there's so many people in the golf industry, so many organizations and leaders that have taken a big, active and successful role in parts of the business that I don't need to go solve. I don't need to, you know, try to get my face on that poster that's working out all by itself. So I think the big challenge with the USJA and This is what I was talking about before, is I'm going to figure out the five or six things that we will not fail at. And unfortunately, when you think of when you hear those five or six things, you'll probably go, yeah, that sounds right, and then you'll want to naturally go but what about and you'll rattle off six or seven more. Just know, if they weren't in those five or six, I'm probably not going to spend a lot of time, at least my personal time on those other things. If we're going to succeed, we're going to be great at five or six things, and we're not going to be willing to fail at those five or six things. And yeah, that means we're probably not going to be we're not going to be involved in a bunch of others. But I think golf needs that. It's what's achievable. And that formula is almost identical to.

00:16:48
Speaker 3: What we did at the LPGA.

00:16:50
Speaker 1: That makes sense. It's like the maniacal focus more so, you know, it's so easy to get scatterbrained and chase a bunch of different things, and when you do a bunch of things, you never like the restaurant with two hundred things on the menu, Like, let's.

00:17:03
Speaker 2: Do if you want to be great at twenty things, go be great at four and then be great at four more, and then be great at four more.

00:17:09
Speaker 3: Don't try to be great at twenty in the beginning.

00:17:11
Speaker 2: So I think at the USG, we've got to decide what are the four or five or six things we're gonna hang on the board we are not going to back down from. And as we start knocking those off, fine, hang another couple of things on the board, but don't start with twenty.

00:17:24
Speaker 1: So obviously, in terms of championship, we just talked about how we talk too much about championships, but here we go and talk about championships. Go we you guys a big announcement a couple of weeks ago with the anchor sites of Marion and Oakmont partnership with Pennsylvania. Uh what what do the you know, anchor sites provide you guys? And I feel like everybody wants to call it a RODA, but you know, you guys have very much shied away from the RODA term that that RNA uses. How's it different than than a RODA?

00:17:55
Speaker 2: Well, first off, you know, we're we're not talking about going you know, going somewhere forever, and we're also not talking about it like a standard series of years. What I would say is what people have misread the in the anchor site pieces. In these cases North Carolina Pennsylvania, we have we've been able to say to both sites and states, if we bring it, can can we get behind it? In other words, what happens almost every time is you finish a championship with somebody and they'd say, you know, what would have been nicer if we could have put villas down the left side of this thing, Or it would have been great if we would have had plumbing back at the barn, because we could have turned the barn into it. Everybody knows after they run a championship the thing they wished they could have done. But you can't go do that without kind of guaranteed knowledge of revenue in the future. So when we can sit across the table and talk to a Pinehurst or talk to an Oakmont or a Marion or Saucan Valley and say, you know, if you know we're coming you know numerous times in the next twenty years, what can we go do together? What can we build to make sure these championships are better because usually usually you can't go build even if you're even if you're Oakmont and you don't know the USGA is coming back. You can have some grand plan, but how do you go out and really invest in that if you don't think there's revenue to come behind that investment. So I really feel like what the benefit of these anchor sites isn't that to know we're playing there in seven years or playing an amateur there in fourteen years. It's knowing what these sites and these cities and states can do in investing in these places, knowing that they're going to bring this level of excitement, beds and heads, fans, television revenue. It allows them to invest in a property, and when they invest in a property, we can create a better championship for our players, a better championship for our TV partners, and most importantly, we can create a better championship.

00:19:36
Speaker 3: For our fans.

00:19:37
Speaker 2: So the real the guarantee of us coming creates investment in the properties and in the states that we wouldn't get Otherwise we could just say, and you know, we came here and we may come back again later, but this is going to You're going to see real investments in these properties that came out of the knowledge of knowing that we were.

00:19:53
Speaker 1: Coming back in a way, you know, when you were describing that, it made me think of Augustin National and what they're able to do with the Masters and law and because they know it's coming back every single year, so they're able to make investments improve they can look at something and say, hey, this didn't work, the spectator flow didn't work here, and all of a sudden it's fixed next year. Their merchandise tents are seamless places because they know every year and year out. And what you're doing is, you know, as opposed to it being just an unfamiliar house that you're hosting a party and you're going back to those houses regularly in a way.

00:20:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would tell you this that the majority of the US Open, US Women's Open, US Amateur sites will not be tied to an anchor site, but we will have a small minority that are. And because of that exect, your point is exactly right. These championships will look at a championship and say, how do we invest in the next one because we know there isn't that we know there is a next one, and whether you're talking about North Carolina and the investment we're making together in our test facility and consumer facility, and therefore the champions or whether you're talking about Oakmont and Marion, we can make investments to make the did to make the actual championship better. I think you'll hear about another anchor site or two in the years to come, but you won't hear about five or six more.

00:21:08
Speaker 1: So, you know, opening that door. And as a Midwestern and a Midwesterner, I think everybody in the Midwest looks around and see his East coast and you can't tell me that Pittsburgh's Midwest as somebody from Chicago. That's just I've never ever thought that, you know, even though some people contend that it is. You see West coast anchor sites in the PGA move to the May to May is really limited major championship golf in the Midwest. So can we potentially expect to see some sort of Midwest anchor site.

00:21:44
Speaker 2: Anchor site, I don't know, championships, Yes, I mean I fully intend that we'll we'll see championships come through Chicago and the Midwest. I mean I would consider Pittsburgh, but I get it, I would come through the Midwest. But anchor sites are big your entities. It's more than just a club. It's a club, it's a county, it's a city, it's a state. I don't know if there's if there's appetite for that, maybe, but I but like I said, we're not in a hurry to roll out more anchor sites. We're you know, at the end of the day, these anchor sites will be few and far between, but they will create they will create some continuity and some investment.

00:22:20
Speaker 3: That'll be great.

00:22:21
Speaker 2: But I don't want to wake up in three years to your roto comment and go, well, I know what thirty through forty three is, and there's no room in there for us to introduce other sites, important sites one offs. I mean, there's a lot of great clubs that would like to do this once or maybe twice, but they don't want to do it every ten years. They don't want to do it every eight years. And I don't want to cross them off because they weren't part of some anchor agreement.

00:22:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's an interesting strategy because obviously when you have them planned out, it creates leverage and scarcity, but you also never know what's going to happen, Say one year, somebody might decide they want something, so you want to have some availability. It's got you kind of almost want to have a table or two available in case the celebrity comes in your restaurant, right.

00:23:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would tell you I'm without any hesitation, and I'm not bsing you there is no Anchor sites were not designed.

00:23:10
Speaker 3: To create scarcity and therefore hired demand if it works out there end.

00:23:13
Speaker 2: I'm saying that we didn't sit down and go, you know what we could do, If we could just lock up a couple of dates every decade, that would just mean two less slots for everybody else. Anchor sites came to the fact that if we could, if we could really get long term thinking, long term investment in some of the markets that we know we'd come back to anyway, it would be great if we could.

00:23:30
Speaker 3: And then it led to look what it turned into. But it wasn't designed to have fewer opportunities.

00:23:36
Speaker 2: And like I said, we'll be fully committed to making sure that there are one offs and there are regular stops that are aren't tied to anchor sites. We're never going to find ourselves waking up going. Geez, we'd love to really do a championship there, but anchor sites have nine of ten years locked up.

00:23:51
Speaker 3: That won't be part of our future.

00:23:53
Speaker 1: With all the championships there, I mean, there's so many shoes from I'm just curious. Is there one that you have highighlighted in your in your head as this is the championship I'm most looking forward to in the next couple of years.

00:24:08
Speaker 3: No, there isn't.

00:24:09
Speaker 2: I mean there's I mean, i'd be honest with you, there's one or two that aren't on the docket. I'd be most looking forward to getting over the over the hump. But you know the cool thing to me is, I mean, I've I've been floored with you know when you this summer, I've been going to all the different championships and yeah, you know, the country Club in Boston is gonna be unbelievable. Haven't been there in you know, thirty years, And I can't wait too, you know, I can't you know you start lying on the list.

00:24:33
Speaker 3: I mean, am I excited about L A c C. I am? You know I've played L A c C A few times.

00:24:38
Speaker 2: I lived out in California for a while and I know that it won't always won't just be a great championship for the athletes and for the sponsors that will be there, but there'll be people in LA that have never even seen inside that gates that'll walk in his fans and and see a great piece of property.

00:24:51
Speaker 3: So I'm excited about that.

00:24:52
Speaker 2: But but the best part about this whole USGA experience that I've had just this summer is every time I get on a plane and get off and get off a plane, I'm experiencing a country club or a golf venue that I've heard about, read about, but never been to, and they just don't disappoint.

00:25:07
Speaker 1: With the events that you attended this year. Do you have like a favorite moment or favorite story from one of the events that you know obviously that had to be a very cool experience this summer.

00:25:18
Speaker 2: I'd never been to a US Girls Junior before, and when I walked down to the US Girls Junior, there was a young girl, you know, Caroline, Caroline Title who played in my home was a member of my home course in Orlando, and I just saw on the range I walked in, I saw that that's Caroline, And I've got a thousand nicknames for And I saw her and her dad standing there and to me to stand there on the range and talk to the two them, and then they realize what this championship meant. Now, this is a younger who's qualified for the US Women's Open, played at the Olympic. I saw at Olympic, you know, so you think that would be an even bigger moment for me this summer, But you just realize how much these USGA championships mean to somebody's amateur career and then pro careers. I mean, they're just you know, there's there's places that they play and then there's a USJA championship, and it's it was special for me to talk to you.

00:26:09
Speaker 3: I like her, I like her dad.

00:26:10
Speaker 2: I feel that their family, and for them to say, you know, this was the thing we built our summer around getting here to Baltimore. This is where we wanted to This is where we wanted to play. And I'd seen her at the Olympic, you know, months earlier, but she I don't think she expected to qualify for that, But it's just it just reminds you that what you're doing matter at every age. You know, to see to see a lot of my really good friends at Brooklawn, you know, for the us Senior Women's I mean this is you know, just to sit there and talk to LPJ greats and then to have them just say over and over again how much they appreciate what the USJA was doing for them and to create this championship.

00:26:45
Speaker 3: Those are that's special. You know. I always tell.

00:26:47
Speaker 2: People, why work this hard if nobody cares? And in these cases, I really met athletes that cared.

00:26:53
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the neat things with with golf in general, and especially the USGAS as somebody that you know, spent their whole a lot of their life, you know, chasing USGA tournament trying to get in, and is the lower level tournaments like there there aren't a lot of other sports, like the NBA doesn't have amateur basketball championships, like you know, there's nowhere for twenty five years twenty eight year old mid A basketball players to go compete on a national stage. And I think that's one of the things is that I would, you know, say to a lot of people, is like those are some of the most fun championships to attend, Like I the most fun I've had attending an event in the last five years was the inaugural Senior Women's Open here where you know, you're out of this incredible golf course and you're seeing It's just there's a different energy at these, at the lower level events, even than the you know, the big Men's Open or Women's Open. And I'd say the Women's Open has a different energy than the Men's Open, and it's it's worth exploring because like being able to walk without the ropes around, I mean, it is a you know, I think those lower level USGA events don't get as much attention or love as they deserve because they are so neat, you know, even the big ones.

00:28:09
Speaker 2: I would tell you that when I came back from the US Open and Tory and I didn't interview the next morning. The next morning and of course they wanted to talk about Ram and it was unbelievable. It was a great week. But somebody said, what was the moment you most remember about that week? And I said, I said the Amateur dinner, which I think was on Tuesday or Wednesday night. Now, we couldn't do a dinner this year because of COVID, so and it was outside and it was drinks, but it was I think it was Andy North gave a little talk about you know what it meant, and up over the course of that I met every amateur in the field, and you know, these were young men that were in the absolute pinnacle of their career.

00:28:45
Speaker 3: It's funny.

00:28:45
Speaker 2: As commissioner of the LPGA, when I rolled into the US Open and the US Women's Open, my thinking was, we really ought to have more LPGA and PGA tour members exempt into these fields and fewer open slots because I mean, you use this, these open slots don't turn into u after the cut and wins and everything else. And after going to both and really getting into the into the process of qualifying, I realized that the US Open the US Women's Open are the most open championship in the world.

00:29:13
Speaker 3: Right.

00:29:13
Speaker 2: I mean, if if you've got if you if you've got a low enough handicap and you can get the ball.

00:29:17
Speaker 3: In the hole, you can play in the US Open. And I mean to your point before, I mean, I.

00:29:21
Speaker 2: Don't care how great your summer was, You're not going to be invited to play in the NBA Championship. Like there's just just doesn't matter how many shots you hit down in your neighborhood in your neighborhood pick up game. But if you're if you have that kind of summer and you can find you on you might just you might just tee it up at the US Women's Open. And finally, the word open meant more to me. I mean, I would throw the open word around pretty easily at the LBGA. But when you get here and you really look at what it took to get here and the qualifier from all over the world, it's it's one of the things that really makes it special because it's the most open professional and amateur championships in the world, and they're purely non discriminatory. The ball doesn't care what you look like, hold you are, where you came from. You can get in the ball in the in the hole with least number of strokes. You can be playing one of the greatest championships in the world.

00:30:06
Speaker 1: So I'd be remiss here if I if I didn't talk about, you know, the hottest topic in golf, obviously, but.

00:30:13
Speaker 2: You you're the best I've ever been interviewed with in my first sixty days in terms of how long it took you to get to this.

00:30:19
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, usually the over end a minute and a half.

00:30:21
Speaker 1: I want everybody to listen to the other part of the interview.

00:30:24
Speaker 3: So when you actually edit this, this is gonna be the first question you asked, right.

00:30:27
Speaker 2: No, no, no, we put it at the back because you gott to force them through all the stuff exactly.

00:30:33
Speaker 1: Exactly something I I'm always I've interested in. I see this word thrown around a ton, and I've never really understood who stakeholders means. So, you know, you see with the distant space, like, oh, we're gonna talk with stakeholders, Like who are stakeholders? You know, you know, like what what level does it go down to? You know, obviously I think everybody just assumes equipment manufact and PGA tour players and LPGA players, but like, what who are the stakeholders?

00:31:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I when when I talk stakeholders, I talk about entities in the game that both lead and push the game forward and have a lot to gain or lose from the decisions we make. So you know, you're right. I mean, it's it's it's equipment manufacturers, it's it's the tours, it's tour players, it's you know, it's it's it's golf course venues, so it's I think it's important that I think in this role, I've said this many times. In this role, I'm gonna have to lead in a huddle. I mean, I have to bring the huddle together. I'm gonna have to listen to the comments. At the end of the day, someone's gonna have to make a call and make a play. But I really think it's important that we actually lead via via the huddle. That doesn't make it easy, it doesn't necessarily always make it make it popular. But I do think there's a there's a lot about this game that I think goes unnoticed from the average fan. And what I mean by that isn't this is me and my soapbox. But I would just tell you there's I don't think I could be the head of the of the National Croquet Association, or the head of the National Darts Association, or or the Bowling Bowlers of America Association, because I'm not really sure that there's enough stakeholders in there that really move the game forward. When we announce a championship in golf, thirty percent of the advertising's gone already from manufacturers and supporters of the game that want to be part of that you don't get that in tennis. You don't turn on the US Open tennis tournament and see all the ads from golf from tennis balls and tennis rackets and it just isn't there.

00:32:31
Speaker 3: But it's there in golf, and I don't think you can. I don't think you can blow that off.

00:32:34
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that makes golf exciting is how much research is spent in this game. So when somebody says to me, well, that's easy, just have a tour ball shut down everybody in a distance and that's the new game, that's fine. But I think my job is really to make sure that there's as much energy about the future of this game three years from now that there is today, and twenty years from now that there is today. And I want I want engineers to wake up every morning and say, I see the rules that he put in place. But I'm going to spend a lot of hours today working on how to how to get excitement even within that space.

00:33:04
Speaker 3: I can't.

00:33:04
Speaker 2: I can't throw a wet blanket over that, or I think I'll lose one of the things that makes this game truly exciting and great. If I see a club out of the Christmas If I see a package under the Christmas tree that looks like a golf club, I'm just like anybody. I get pretty excited about ripping it open because maybe there's maybe there's two strokes a handicap in that box, and I don't want to I don't want to lose that.

00:33:23
Speaker 3: I don't want to lose that excitement.

00:33:24
Speaker 1: An interesting thing with the history of the game is that, uh, and this is with a lot of innovation in society, is that when restrictions are placed on engineers innovators, that's when the most creativity comes out. And obviously, like I think one of them if you go back to is like the when the Haskell ball came out. There was obviously a lot of debate, and then they got rules and specifications placed, and then they came out with a better ball like the week after they put the rules in that fit all the specs. So I think, obviously, I think that's one thing I always think about is that history is going to repeat itself. If you put regulation in, people are going to innovatee regardless, that's their job, right. One question I would have centered around that is like how do you manage people's financial obviously. I think this is where a lot of purists would come from, is the manufacturers, different entities, financial interests, with their feedback around centered around the you know, future of the game and sustainability.

00:34:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that.

00:34:32
Speaker 2: Everybody I talk to loses a lot of sleep about whether or not golf will be better fifty years from now than it is today.

00:34:38
Speaker 3: And I get that. I mean, that's not everybody's job, right.

00:34:40
Speaker 2: Some people have job to head a quarter, some people have job to get members paid, some people have job to you know, to get to get events on the schedule.

00:34:46
Speaker 3: I've had those different jobs as well.

00:34:48
Speaker 2: But I think I'm one of the few that that you know, that drives to work every morning thinking about whether not golf's gonna better in thirty or forty or fifty years than it is today. And and I think that's that's our responsibility. I mean, that's our job to be to be that voice. I do know that, as you know, we have a ton ton.

00:35:04
Speaker 3: Of roles at the at the USGA.

00:35:05
Speaker 2: Whether that role is rules, whether that role is championships, whether that role is green section and aground on me, or whether that role is being a cop. You know, and sometimes we have to be like the traffic cop and say this is how fast you can drive on this highway. It doesn't doesn't mean you'll love the cop, but it also means that you know, with that cop, at least you get order and and lack of chaos, and a and a belief in sort of the future. So I'm not going to back off the responsibility. In some cases we'll have to be a traffic cop and say how far, how fast. But I also don't think the way to get there is just to say innovation out. Here's the new here's the new ball, everybody plays it, and or here's the new club and everybody plays it, or here's the new rule, and and there's no way around it. I quite frankly, when you said, don't you think history is gonna repeat itself? I do. I think we're going to establish some guidelines. I think those guidelines are probably gonna slow some of the pace of progress over the next ten or twenty years. But are we going to figure ways around that to actually continue to push the envelope. I'm actually counting on it because I think that's what makes the game exciting. I also think that I have a responsibility to make sure that when you look at that over the next fifty years, the decisions we made to actually control some of that pace didn't obsolete every game in the you know, every every course in the country didn't make courses west of the Mississippi no longer an option, because that's when you wake up and say, whatever happened to dot dot dot fill in the sport because they didn't really care about the next forty years. They only cared about today. So finding that right balance is important. I'm going to work hard to find that balance. Whether or not we'll strike it exactly right, I don't know. But we can't shy away from the from the responsibility that that we have that quite frankly, nobody else really shares.

00:36:36
Speaker 1: Is there a can we you know, obviously everybody sits and talks about this. This is an endless debate. If you bring it up on social media, it'll be filled. You know, you'll be talking about it for a week. But you know, is there any imminent like when can we expect maybe something about that? Obviously the distance report came out and we're in this evaluation period. When can we expect to see something from this evaluation period.

00:37:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I think at this time next year.

00:37:03
Speaker 2: I think next summer we'll be talking about some real specific suggestions, recommendations and be going through the same process when in the beginning we would put out the distance results. We then talked about, you know, some of the errors we want to look at. We've listened to feedback. I think, you know, come this off season, we'll take all that feedback in and try to determine some specific directions and then we'll do the same thing. We'll put it out there and let people feedback. I don't expect everyone to say, Mike Usja, great job, because, like I said, being a traffic cups sometimes isn't the greatest. But I think at this time next summer, we'll be having an interview and you'll be saying, tell me about point number four, and that's what we'll be talking about.

00:37:37
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody likes change.

00:37:39
Speaker 2: You know, everybody likes change. They just don't want change in their game. Please change somebody else.

00:37:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting I think, like the whole thing, everybody's got biased. Like I love classic golf courses, so I'm biased. I know that. Like I write about classic golf courses, I don't want them to be, you know, extinct. One of the things I've always found interesting is that there's there's one stakeholder that has huge financial gain to be made from a distance, the distance to keep exploding, and they're golf course architects, and they're vehemently opposed to the distance, which is like amazing to me because like, Okay, if the golf ball keeps going further and the clubs keep getting better, they're going to have to keep building more back tees and keep adjusting golf courses and keep making more money. But they're the group that always is vehemently opposed to this whole thing, and it's just something that I always like find I chuckle about, are they a stakeholder?

00:38:36
Speaker 2: Well, I think the bottom line, when you talk about great golf course architecture, it's no different than you know, than great artists.

00:38:42
Speaker 3: I mean, when you finish, when you finish the painting, you don't want to be that.

00:38:45
Speaker 2: You don't want the painting to be obsolete again in twenty years just because because nobody cared about the painting twenty years ago. So I think I think it's one thing to just say I'm going to add back teas. But I've not met at a golf course architectur says, yeah, just put a tea back there fifty yards. I'm good because that's not what the original vision was or the original design. So I think they're a stakeholder. It's hoping that we protect some of the original vision of these great venues that they created. But there's a you know, there is there is a compromise here that will that will find you know, it won't it won't be overnight, and it won't be easy, but we'll find a compromise. That says listen. And at the end of the day, I still want long hitters to be long hitters. I still want them to have an advantage versus a short hitter. I want them to, you know, but if they go for it and too to have risks that maybe the guy who laid up doesn't have, that's part of the game. So I mean, I think the people that think we're going to wind everything back and you know, everybody's going to be the same one hundred and ninety five yards off the tee, come on, that's not realistic. And I don't think I don't think we want to take athleticism and strength and figure out a way to be sween the club harder if you can do it, and keep it in the fairway out of the game. So we're you know, long hitters are going to be long hitters. Difference makers on tours and different makers in your home club are still going to have those advantages. But I think if we just turn the other cheek and say nothing wrong with this game, the people who say that to me don't really care about golf forty years from now. They just please don't touch my game. Please don't touch my course, Please don't touch my tour. I get that, but I think if that's the answer, I think there's a real risk at forty years fro now, they're going to say, I've.

00:40:08
Speaker 3: Said this many times.

00:40:09
Speaker 2: You can make a critique on the RNA and the USGA that said, why have you waited this long to take a look at this? And I think that's a fair critique, But should you be looking at it? That's that's not even a realistic critique. Of course, our job is to make sure we keep the game as good as it was thirty years from now, if not better than it was today, and not paying attention is not an answer.

00:40:28
Speaker 1: Well, especially with what's going on globally with environmental concerns and sustainability. You look around the around the world and around the country, it's like golf courses take a lot of resources, and you do not want them to take more resources because that is something that you know puts the game at jeopardy.

00:40:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't want to go down the whole global warming path. But let's face it, when when a golf course has to get that long, it's expensive, it's expensive to maintain. If you think as a golfing population, we're not paying for that, you're kidding yourself in terms of fees and country club expenses and never else. More importantly, do you think there'll ever be an urban golf course built again? If it needs eighty six hundred yards to build a golf course. And people say to me, well, we don't need eighty six unless you're unless you're building a golf course for the top elite. But I've never met somebody who's got a plan to build a golf course who doesn't want to have a course that could host major championships. So I mean, I just don't think we want to make this game only a suburb game, you know, only only a game.

00:41:22
Speaker 3: For the wealthy.

00:41:23
Speaker 2: So again that's that's how you wake up and go whatever happened to So listen, there's no there's no single magic bullet, at least not yet. But we're certainly going to come with some suggestions and I think at a minimum, can continue to have excitement, can continue to have innovation at the same time protect the fact that you know, we want to make sure that our golfing venues can be our golfing venues in the future. And quite frankly, the only way to get to a golfing venue can't be to drive two hours into the country.

00:41:48
Speaker 1: So outside of this whole distance debate coming to some resolution, what are you most looking forward to in the UH in the coming years as as the CEO?

00:41:58
Speaker 2: Actually, I know it sounds crazy to say this, but I'm looking forward to this challenge because this challenge will require us to bring the industry together, even in ways where we don't like each other. But at least you know, to me, it's like I said, I think it's a fair critique to say where have you been? But I think it's be a much fair critique if in three years ago seriously, you did nothing. So I mean, I think that's I'm looking forward to figuring out how to do that with and for the industry, and and and again letting half people tell me I'm crazy and half people not. I mean that that's like being a commissioner.

00:42:24
Speaker 3: You get used to that.

00:42:25
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, you've got the job that nobody's ever going to be happy with you, you know, right, it's.

00:42:30
Speaker 2: Perfect, it's just But so I think that'll be fun. I think I think it'll be To me, it's exciting. Is a I've pretty much been a global guy my whole career, and i've been I was about taking brands global, whether it was Tailor Made and Adidas and you know, the LPGA or Crest Tooth based. But this is a time when I can really be an American, you know, and really focus on some of the things. And I've said this many times. I really believe that I'm frustrated that there's not you know, that there's not Team USA. And if a young kid is growing up and has aspirations in this game anywhere else in the world, they're going to find themselves on Team Sweden or Team New Zealand or Team Australia, not here in America. I think we can solve that, and I think the USGA ought to be at the forefront of solving that. I think that we've providing credible resources to golf courses, but we make it maybe too hard to find them or maybe too expensive to get a part of them. I think we can solve that. I think there is so much research not happening as it relates to water, as it relates to a golf course. I could promise you we're going to spend tens of millions of dollars in the next few years to really make sure that golf courses need half the water that they need now in the long term.

00:43:34
Speaker 3: And I think if we don't do that, who is going to do that.

00:43:36
Speaker 2: I think we can endow some of these great amateur championships if we put our mind to figuring out how to do it. So these are all things I'm trying to get my head around sixty or ninety days in, but I feel pretty comfortable by the time I get to twenty twenty two, I'm going to be blaying some of these things out in terms of action plans. But all of those things to me are necessary, they're doable, and the USGA ou to take the lead on them.

00:43:57
Speaker 1: All right, Mike, thanks so much for the time and really look forward to our next chat. And congrats again on the new rule.

00:44:04
Speaker 3: Thanks again, talk to you soon.

00:44:16
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode was edited by Garrett Morrison. As a quick reminder, we have the Ryder Cup coming up. The best way to stay up to date with everything in golf, it's easy, it's fun, it's for everybody, So for a golf nott, it's for a somebody that's just trying to follow golf is the Frida Egg Newsletter. You know, if you're already signed up, great refer our friend, we'd really appreciate it. You can sign up at the Frida Egg dot com. There's a bar that says newsletter right in the middle of the website. Sign up there and turn email and you're in and you will get golf's best newsletter. I say that with extreme bias, obviously, but I believe it. Three days a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday and during the Ryder Cup, we will have daily newsletters. So Thefrida Egg dot com sign up for the newsletter, whether you are a golf tragic or you're just trying to stay abreast. Actually, it's a good funny story. Uh, it's funny, just an interesting story. I had an old colleague when I started the Frida Egg. She she had just started dating a golf nut, and she told me how much she loved the Friday Egg because it gave her things to talk about with her boyfriend now husband. And you know, she credits a lot of her early relationship to the Fridagg newsletter. She knew nothing about golf. So that's what it can do for the common golf and the beginning golf. And sign up for the free The newsletter is free three days a week and you will know everything going on in the golf world. Will Nights does a wonderful job. Thank you, and we will see you next week with a couple episodes on the Ryder Cup.