Contract bargaining updates

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Sisters and friends and welcome to the
You Are the Current Resident podcast.

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This is the official podcast of the

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National Association of Letter Carriers,
the union that represents 280,000 active

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and retired city letter carriers employed
by the United States Postal Service.

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My name is Ed Morgan and
I'll be your host this week.

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Sitting next to me is our National
President, Brian Renfroe.

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Hey Brian, how are you this week?

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Eddie, I'm doing great,
glad to have you with me.

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On last week's episode, I talked about

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that it wouldn't just be
my voice going forward.

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So we're excited that you're here.

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Thanks, appreciate that.

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So I saw you're on the road this
week, can you tell me where you were?

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Yeah, I had an opportunity to
go down to Houston, Texas.

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Our Texas State Association held their

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state convention
and I was able to go down and address them

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and answer a lot of questions and they
had several hundred in attendance.

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It's a big state and was really impressed
and encouraged by everything they did

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there, handling business and
education and really active group.

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And those folks are, I hope,
left as energized as I did.

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So
it's always great to be with the members

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and certainly enjoyed being with our
brothers and sisters down in Texas.

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Terrific.

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Just to tell you a little bit about
myself, I've been on the letter carrier

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staff, lucky to be on the letter
carrier staff, since 2016.

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I'm originally from Philadelphia.

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Carrier from branch one five seven.

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The Middle City Post Office.

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Keep my route warm for me, fellas.

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Currently working on the Leadership

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Academy, some of the new social media
blurbs that you might have seen and some

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interesting projects that
are coming up in the future.

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Eddie, we're really happy
to have you doing this.

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Ed's done a great job and certainly with
the Leadership Academy, but also here more

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recently with what we're
doing on social media.

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Hope for our folks out there, our members
that are participating in social media,

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which I would guess most of you do if
you're listening to this podcast, that

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you've enjoyed some of the new content and
the creative videos and we intend to keep

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that going forward and Eddie's done a
great job in being involved in that.

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So we're happy to have you on the podcast.

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Thank you.

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So today we're going to talk about

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collective bargaining, which is
how NALC negotiates with the USPS.

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I sat down earlier this week and came up

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with some questions that
our members might have had.

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If I didn't ask your question during this

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timem, you always can reach us
through our Ask a Mailbag segment.

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You can submit your questions by emailing

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us at social@nalc.org. So can you
explain how collective bargaining works?

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Sure.

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So let's start with the
term collective bargaining.

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And it's a broad term that

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covers anytime you have a union and you
have an employer and you negotiate an

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agreement that applies to a lot of
different facets of the employees that the

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union represents a lot of facets of their
work life, including work rules and their

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compensation, their benefits
and all those type things.

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And for us, collective bargaining operates
a little bit differently than it does for

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a lot of our brothers and sister
unions in the private sector.

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And I'm sure we'll get into a little more

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detail here in a few minutes about
exactly how that process works.

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But essentially

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every few years, we sit down with
the Postal Service and we attempt to

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negotiate an agreement, and there are
provisions in the law that are in place in

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the event we're not able to
reach a negotiated agreement.

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In our case, if we do reach a tentative

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agreement with them, we have a process in
our Constitution where that agreement is

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mailed out to every one
of our active members.

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Those are the members that that agreement

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would impact, where they have the
opportunity to vote in ratification as to

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whether they want to accept
that agreement or not.

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So in a nutshell,

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it's a little more complicated
than what it sounds to begin with.

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But generally speaking, it's a process

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where we sit down with them and negotiate
over work rules and pay and benefits and

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all types of other things that
affect letter carriers every day.

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And for those of our newer listeners or

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new members, how long have
we had collective bargaining?

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in some form or fashion,
we've had it since 1962.

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So I'll do a brief history here.

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Our union was founded in 1889.

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The Postal Service, of course, was founded

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long before that, back in the 1700s,
and for the first roughly

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70 or so years, I guess
73 years of our union's existence,

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our representation was pretty much limited
to what we were able to advocate for on

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Capitol Hill and other forums
that affected our members.

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And back then, the Post Office, as it was

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known, was called the
Post Office Department.

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It was a full-fledged government agency,
just like now, for example, the Department

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of Labor is an example or any of the other
full-fledged government agencies.

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In 1962, however, then President John F.

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Kennedy, yes, that JFK, signed an

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executive order, and that executive order
gave us the right to bargain over certain

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topics, and they were all what
we called non-economic issues.

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So we had the pretty limited collective

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bargaining rights beginning in 1962,
where we got the ability to negotiate over

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things like work hours
and stuff like that.

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When it comes to economic issues, which

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includes pay, it includes fringe benefits,
really anything that involves money

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that is part of the compensation
for letter carriers.

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That stuff was still at
the time set by Congress.

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So when
you have to lobby Congress for something

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like a pay increase, that
becomes very difficult.

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So fast forward a little bit.

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Eight years later,
letter carriers went out on an illegal

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wildcat strike that began in New York City
in Branch 36 and at the time a rank-and-

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file letter carrier by the name of Vince
Sombrotto, who would go on to become the

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NALC's greatest President at the
national level, led this strike.

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And the reasons for the strike were
inadequate pay,

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very poor working conditions and the pay
was a result of, as we're all familiar

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with today, it was the same back
then, inaction of Congress.

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So part of the ask in the strike and what
letter carriers and then eventually other

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postal employees walked off the job for
was for full collective bargaining rights.

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So in 1970, this strike started in March.

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The initial agreement in April
involved an agreement by the President and

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by Congress to give letter
carriers an initial wage increase.

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And that was something like 6% retroactive
back to 1969 and then they also had an

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additional 8% increase that was contingent
on legislation that was in the works as a

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result of the strike to
reform the Postal Service.

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So in August of 1970, Congress passed a

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law and then President Nixon signed it
into law called the Postal Reorganization

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Act, which did a lot of things, but as far
as collective bargaining, it gave

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the postal employees and in our case the
NALC and City letter carriers full

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collective bargaining
rights that we have today.

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So since 1970 we have enjoyed full
collective bargaining rights and including

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a resolution process in the event that
we're unable to reach an agreement.

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And I'm sure we'll get into a
little more detail on that.

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Can you explain the difference between the

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public sector like us and
private sector negotiations?

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Sure.

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Well, one of the components of that law in
1970 that gave us full collective

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bargaining rights is what happens in the
event we're not able to reach agreement.

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So let's first start with what generally
happens in the private sector.

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So in the private sector, if
an employer and a union fail to reach an

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agreement, there's really
a couple of options there.

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From the union's perspective, you have the

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option to strike and try to force the
employer into agreeing with whatever your

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position or your demands are in
negotiations and for the employer,

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sometimes they will choose
to lock employees out.

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So in the private sector it's
essentially you go into bargaining.

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The leverage that you have if you're
a union is the threat of a strike.

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In the public sector it's much different
because it's controlled by law.

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In our case, it is illegal for
letter carriers to strike.

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But what we have as

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sort of in exchange for that when you look
back at the law in 1970, is a process

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called interest arbitration which we'll
get into a little more detail on that

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resolves any disputes that the
parties have in contract negotiation.

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So in private sector bargaining you've got
for profit companies that are private

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businesses that are
bargaining with unions.

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In the public sector it's a little more
complicated financial picture for the

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employers, typically, whether that's
bargaining with what we had pre-1970 in

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the post office department and several of
our sister unions here

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in America still bargain with
full-fledged government agencies.

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And then also you have independent
agencies of the government like

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the Postal Service that we bargain with
and their funding and things like that are

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in a lot of cases very different than
what we see in the private sector.

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And that's reflected in the laws that

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govern the collective bargaining process
for those different types of agencies.

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Who sets the agenda on our side?

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So NALC is really in contrast to
not all, but a lot of other unions.

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We are a very democratic union.

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And that goes beyond just simple elections

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of delegates to state and national
conventions or elections of officers at

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the branch level or the state
level or the national level.

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We have a long standing process where
every other year when we have a national

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convention, our branches and state
associations have the opportunity to

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submit resolutions
to the Executive Council that are

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presented at each of those
conventions and voted upon.

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And a large number of those resolutions
have to do with collective bargaining.

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So that is the first place that we go when

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we look at things that we
want to bring to the table.

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What happens at a convention when a

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collective bargaining
resolution is submitted?

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The Executive Council will review it, will
make a recommendation

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on just what the council's opinion is, and
then the delegates of the convention will

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debate that resolution and then eventually
either approve or disapprove it.

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Those resolutions that are approved become
official bargaining positions of the NALC.

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So it's a combination of those official

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bargaining positions that come
through that democratic process.

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Certainly whatever may be taking place at
a particular time you're bargaining that

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are the challenges that
we need to address.

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We here at NALC headquarters and out in

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our regional offices and all
the way down to the branches.

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There's a lot of communication between our

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members that are very
open and active in terms of communicating

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issues that could potentially be
addressed through collective bargaining.

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So it's a combination of
a number of those things.

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But ultimately our official positions are

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set through that process of
resolutions at our convention.

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But we also try to keep a very close ear

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to the ground, so to speak, on issues that
are happening at any particular time that

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may change our priorities, things that we
may need to address in whatever round of

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bargaining we happen
to be in at that time.

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Can you explain who owns
the Postal Service?

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Yeah.

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This is also a contrast in the public
and private sector bargaining.

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Private sector companies are typically
owned by individuals or they become

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publicly traded and are
owned by stockholders.

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In the Postal Service's case, it's an

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independent agency of
the federal government.

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So technically it's owned
by the federal government.

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Thus it's owned by the people, and it does

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not receive tax dollars for operating
reasons, for operating purposes.

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So its revenue from the sale of
stamps and postage is what funds it.

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In a lot of ways it's owned by the people

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of this country,
but revenue-wise, it's not funded by the

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people of this country, I think
is the best way to explain it.

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So now we're in interest arbitration.

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Can you explain exactly what that is?
Sure.

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So interest arbitration is a process that
by law we and the Postal Service are

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required to engage in in the event we
reach what's called an impasse or an

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inability to come to agreement on
a collective bargaining agreement.

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And this is a process that over the years
we've used less than half the time.

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We have negotiated 15

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collective bargaining agreements with
the Postal Service.

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I believe of those 15 collective
bargaining agreements we have,

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six of them have been decided
by interest arbitration.

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So what happens is if we are unable to

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reach an agreement by the time our
existing agreement expires so currently in

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2023, our previous agreement that
began in 2019 expired on May the 20th.

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By law, we have a 60-day period where we
are required to report to the federal

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mediation council and use a mediator
to try to resolve our disputes.

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We comply with the law,

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but just frankly speaking, mediation
has not been successful in history.

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So then we proceed to a process called
interest arbitration

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where it's essentially a hearing
as well as written evidence that both

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parties submit and ultimately
a decision is made.

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And I'm sure we can get into
a little more detail on that.

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Sure.
Great.

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So, like what happens at
an interest arbitration?

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Yeah.
So each party goes forward,

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00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:54,020
the Postal Service will
have their proposal.

232
00:15:54,050 --> 00:15:56,260
Normally in interest arbitration, the

233
00:15:56,290 --> 00:16:01,480
issues that are on the table are economic
in nature, pay,

234
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:07,220
benefits, things that also have an
economic impact on the Postal Service,

235
00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:14,580
such as the structure of the workforce,
those type of big-ticket economic items.

236
00:16:14,610 --> 00:16:19,900
And each side will have their proposal of
what they believe they want to achieve.

237
00:16:19,930 --> 00:16:25,380
And there's a three-person
arbitration panel created.

238
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:28,100
The union NALC will have an arbitrator

239
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,700
that represents our interest,
the Postal Service will have an arbitrator

240
00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:36,980
that represents their interest,
and then the parties will jointly agree on

241
00:16:37,010 --> 00:16:41,780
a neutral arbitrator to chair that
three-person arbitration panel.

242
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:47,540
In our most recent round of contract
negotiations back for the 2019 agreement,

243
00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:52,060
we went through almost the entire
process of interest arbitration.

244
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,780
Eventually reached an agreement prior to
send out for ratification, prior to

245
00:16:56,810 --> 00:17:03,620
receiving an award, but arbitrator
Dennis Nolan was our neutral arbitrator.

246
00:17:03,650 --> 00:17:06,010
Then what happens is to that three-person

247
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:13,660
panel, each side presents evidence to
support what their proposals are for us.

248
00:17:13,690 --> 00:17:19,860
That typically includes
expert witnesses that do things like talk

249
00:17:19,890 --> 00:17:25,290
about the difficulty of our job and
how important city carriers are.

250
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:26,420
The Postal Service

251
00:17:26,450 --> 00:17:30,900
there's economic factors that are involved
as far as what the world around us looks

252
00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:37,290
like and a number of other issues
that tend to change over time.

253
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,090
But those are the ones that
are pretty much consistent.

254
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,180
And then what happens is after this

255
00:17:42,210 --> 00:17:48,050
written evidence is submitted, there's
often hearings with witness testimony.

256
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,560
The three-person panel gets together and

257
00:17:50,590 --> 00:17:56,460
the role of the Postal Service-appointed
and the NALC-appointed arbitrator is to be

258
00:17:56,490 --> 00:18:01,940
sure the interest
of both sides are clearly understood by

259
00:18:01,970 --> 00:18:07,460
the chair, the neutral, jointly selected
arbitrator who ultimately will make a

260
00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:12,760
decision that'll set the terms of
our collective bargaining agreement.

261
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,330
So this is the one everyone wants to know

262
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,380
what's on the table at
this contract negotiation?

263
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:18,980
A lot of stuff.

264
00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:23,090
So let's start with where
we are in that process.

265
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:29,530
So we concluded our 60-day
mediation period on July the 19th.

266
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,500
Throughout that entire period,
we continue to negotiate.

267
00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:35,010
We continue to negotiate now.

268
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,600
I

269
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,810
n the reasonably near future, if we are
not to the point of reaching tentative

270
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,500
agreement, we'll begin that process of
selecting an interest arbitrator and

271
00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:50,380
scheduling that process that I
just described going forward.

272
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:57,500
The big things that are here for us,
economically speaking, is certainly pay.

273
00:18:57,530 --> 00:19:06,440
We are in a place where NALC believes that
we need a change in our pay structure in

274
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,530
terms of the way our pay
tables are out there.

275
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,700
We have two separate pay tables that both

276
00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:19,120
end up at the same top-end pay, but they
are different in table one, the old table,

277
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,770
99.9% of people in that table
are currently at the top step.

278
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,640
So for us, the main things that are on the
table and the goals that we want to

279
00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:33,090
achieve are increasing starting pay,
for sure, but not just starting pay.

280
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,280
It's also increasing our top end pay to a

281
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:41,570
level that we believe
rewards us for our contributions to

282
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,290
the Postal Service and reflects what
our value is to the Postal Service.

283
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,460
And if you look at the economy and wages

284
00:19:48,490 --> 00:19:53,560
in general in this country right now,
compared to where they were in 2019 when

285
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:57,980
we last negotiated, things
have drastically changed.

286
00:19:58,010 --> 00:20:04,770
Wages have gone up,
unemployment has gone at a record low.

287
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,010
There is a bigger challenge in some places

288
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,570
to hire employees than
we've ever had before.

289
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,500
And really, for all those reasons, plus

290
00:20:14,530 --> 00:20:19,090
the normal reasons that we present is
look, our job is not easy and our job gets

291
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:23,290
more difficult all the time and we take
on more responsibility all the time.

292
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,900
And the result of that, in our view, is
that letter carriers should be paid more.

293
00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:29,810
So those are the big things.

294
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,700
Now, there's a number of other
issues that are on the table dealing with

295
00:20:34,730 --> 00:20:39,380
work rules, of course, the problems we
have with things like compliance with

296
00:20:39,410 --> 00:20:44,330
Article Eight,
looking at stuff like route adjustment.

297
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,980
We currently have a joint process ongoing.

298
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,530
That's a big topic in negotiation.

299
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,080
What that'll look like going forward and

300
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:55,220
then addressing a number of the other
things that are currently hot issues.

301
00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:59,770
For example,
this alarming increase in crime we've seen

302
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,460
over the last couple of years, as well as
a lot of long-standing bargaining

303
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:08,010
positions that are a lot of them
are very specific to our job.

304
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,400
Stuff that's included in Article 41 of our

305
00:21:10,430 --> 00:21:14,860
agreement, which is a craft article that
lays out a lot of things that are very

306
00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:18,860
specific to letter carriers
and what we do every day.

307
00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:24,250
So we have made good progress
through our bargaining process.

308
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:29,770
We've gotten to a place where
we've come to tentative agreement.

309
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,240
You don't really have an agreement until

310
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:35,960
you have an agreement, but in terms of
some individual issues, we've got some

311
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:40,810
tentative agreement on a number of things
and we're working towards

312
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,090
and remain optimistic about our ability to
negotiate an agreement that we feel like

313
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,900
fairly rewards our members and that
we can send out to arbitration.

314
00:21:49,930 --> 00:21:56,460
But I always say that with
this piece to cap it is we also have been

315
00:21:56,490 --> 00:22:00,860
preparing for interest arbitration
really since we finished our last

316
00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:05,700
agreement, but in earnest for
approaching a year now since last fall.

317
00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:10,620
And if that's the route that we have to go
to achieve what we believe is

318
00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:15,180
fair for our members, then we will
not hesitate to go in that direction.

319
00:22:15,210 --> 00:22:17,420
That's great to hear.

320
00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:21,900
So after postal reform, the Postal Service
is fat with cash now, right?

321
00:22:21,930 --> 00:22:24,500
Yeah, I wish they were.

322
00:22:24,530 --> 00:22:28,330
There's no doubt they are in
a better financial position.

323
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:33,220
When you just look long-term,
it did not change a ton.

324
00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:40,380
As far as an in the moment thing here in
2023, their cash position has improved

325
00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:44,380
over the last couple of years and
some of that due to postal reform.

326
00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:48,380
But the impact of postal reform is
really more of a long-term impact.

327
00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:51,740
We're looking down the road at

328
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:57,900
things like the positive impact it has on
the cost for retiree health care and

329
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,900
things like that, which
is a piece of this.

330
00:22:59,930 --> 00:23:04,260
I mean, when we negotiate and dig deep in

331
00:23:04,290 --> 00:23:08,980
the Postal Service finances, which is an
important part of this because if you're

332
00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:13,480
the Postal Service or any other employer
for that matter and you try to make an

333
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:18,740
argument against giving employees x amount
of increased compensation, the best

334
00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:21,940
argument to make is I
don't have any money.

335
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,020
But there's a long-term impact too because

336
00:23:24,050 --> 00:23:29,740
whatever we negotiate, even if it's over a
three, four, five, whatever the year the

337
00:23:29,770 --> 00:23:34,660
term of the agreement may be, that does
also have long-term impacts on their cost.

338
00:23:34,690 --> 00:23:41,810
So there's no question postal reform is a
positive, will continue to be a positive.

339
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,900
But it's not

340
00:23:43,930 --> 00:23:50,780
the one thing that all of a sudden
really changes bargaining in terms of just

341
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:54,980
infusing them with billions of
dollars of cash immediately.

342
00:23:55,010 --> 00:23:56,740
It helps for sure.

343
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,680
And there are additional steps out there
that I'm sure we'll get into in depth in

344
00:24:00,710 --> 00:24:05,140
future episodes that are legislative in
nature or things that the White House

345
00:24:05,170 --> 00:24:09,640
could do, for example,
that would also further impact that and

346
00:24:09,670 --> 00:24:12,520
improve where we are in
terms of bargaining.

347
00:24:12,550 --> 00:24:15,180
But I would say fat with cash is a little

348
00:24:15,210 --> 00:24:18,740
bit of a stretch but definitely
in a better position.

349
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:23,700
Okay, so how do other delivery
companies make more revenue than us?

350
00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:27,260
Yeah, so other delivery
companies are private companies.

351
00:24:27,290 --> 00:24:33,860
We're the only public, so to speak,
or government delivery company.

352
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:36,700
And in a lot of ways we're comparable.

353
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,380
I mean, yes, they are competition when it
comes to our competitive products like

354
00:24:40,410 --> 00:24:44,940
parcels and some of the special
services and that type thing.

355
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,860
I think it's important to remember that we

356
00:24:46,890 --> 00:24:52,020
still have the monopoly
on the mailbox and first-class mail.

357
00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:58,740
So really the goals of private delivery
companies versus the goals of

358
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,050
the Postal Service are
different in a lot of ways.

359
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,160
For private delivery companies their goal

360
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:07,380
is to make as much money as they can
and make as big a profit as they can.

361
00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:12,860
For the Postal Service, the goal is
not about necessarily making a profit.

362
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,500
Certainly you want to be financially

363
00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:18,810
sustainable and have the ability to
reinvest in things like infrastructure.

364
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,050
And the best example of that is just how

365
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,780
badly we need to get the new
vehicles out on the road.

366
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,260
Those of you if you're listening to this

367
00:25:27,290 --> 00:25:31,420
and driving an LLV right
now, you'd certainly agree.

368
00:25:31,450 --> 00:25:33,140
But ultimately the goal for

369
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,380
the Postal Service is not
a profit, it's a service.

370
00:25:35,410 --> 00:25:43,260
So that's the biggest difference between
the way revenue is dealt with and for us.

371
00:25:43,290 --> 00:25:45,620
Our prices are capped by law.

372
00:25:45,650 --> 00:25:51,330
So there's some limitations on the way
the Postal Service is able to increase

373
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:56,090
revenue whereas a private company
is free to do whatever they want.

374
00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:00,090
I mean obviously if they increase
prices too much they'll lose business.

375
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:04,810
So just like any other business they have
a lot more flexibility in that regard.

376
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,570
But I'd say those are
really the way that they may end up with

377
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,940
more kind of bottom line revenue than
what the Postal Service would have.

378
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:17,380
Great.
So here's the big question.

379
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:20,050
Why do we negotiate in private?

380
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,740
Yeah it really has to do with our process.

381
00:26:22,770 --> 00:26:28,050
So I think if you look and those of you
that are listening that pay attention

382
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:34,050
maybe to the larger labor movement and
other unions that are out there, often

383
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,220
their negotiations
are very public and they have

384
00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:44,460
large campaigns where they hold
rallies and all those sorts of things.

385
00:26:44,490 --> 00:26:51,460
And typically that is effective for a
union in the private sector that has the

386
00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:56,220
ability to strike because
it raises the profile.

387
00:26:56,250 --> 00:26:58,240
They're able to educate people on what

388
00:26:58,270 --> 00:27:04,080
that strike could mean and therefore that
puts pressure back on the employer to come

389
00:27:04,110 --> 00:27:07,500
to the table with what
they want to bargain.

390
00:27:07,530 --> 00:27:12,700
In our world of collective
bargaining it's much different.

391
00:27:12,730 --> 00:27:15,660
Number one, we cannot strike.

392
00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:18,020
That's illegal for us to do that, that's

393
00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:23,080
also in our collective bargaining
agreement that we will not strike.

394
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,120
And number two,

395
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,380
if we were to do that, it doesn't
influence the Postal Service in any way.

396
00:27:31,410 --> 00:27:37,140
And the fact that a public type campaign

397
00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:42,810
without the ability to strike really the
only thing that does is get information

398
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,020
out there, cause
people to express opinions.

399
00:27:48,050 --> 00:27:52,620
That, frankly, the only positive that
could have actually, there's no positive

400
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,140
that could have in terms of our
negotiation, the only impact that could

401
00:27:56,170 --> 00:28:02,290
have would be a negative impact to cloud
the discussions that we're having.

402
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,260
And it's really important, and I say this,

403
00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:09,420
this is my fourth time,
my first time as president, obviously,

404
00:28:09,450 --> 00:28:12,810
leading collective bargaining,
but my fourth time doing it.

405
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:19,620
Twice I served as the chief spokesperson
with the Postal Service, and

406
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:22,620
one time we got an award
through interest arbitration.

407
00:28:22,650 --> 00:28:24,570
Three times we negotiated an award.

408
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,620
One of those was when we essentially

409
00:28:26,650 --> 00:28:30,330
finished our interest
arbitration proceedings.

410
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:35,900
So I've had a lot of
experience doing this.

411
00:28:35,930 --> 00:28:39,740
An important part of it for us is for our

412
00:28:39,770 --> 00:28:43,860
conversations and our negotiations with
our counterparts at the Postal Service,

413
00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:51,500
and vice versa, for us to be able to be
very open, very honest,

414
00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:58,810
and talk about things almost
sometimes in an informal setting.

415
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:06,200
So when you add
outside noise, so to speak, it tends to

416
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:12,420
have what we call a cooling effect, where
one side or the other gets into a place

417
00:29:12,450 --> 00:29:16,740
where they may not be as comfortable
talking about a particular topic.

418
00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:19,940
So the more open our discussions with them

419
00:29:19,970 --> 00:29:24,500
can be, in my experience, the
better opportunity we have.

420
00:29:24,530 --> 00:29:28,570
And I think they feel the same way
to eventually reach an agreement.

421
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,050
So as I tell our members, a lot of places

422
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,050
where we go and there are certainly things
I talk about, and our goals here, as we've

423
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,220
talked a little bit about on
this podcast, are no secret.

424
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:47,260
I think people know what we are trying
to achieve, at least generally speaking.

425
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,290
And I would love to tell every one of our
members every single thing that happens.

426
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,600
But the fact of the matter is,
while people want to hear that, and I

427
00:29:56,630 --> 00:30:02,200
totally understand that the only way it
can impact what we are actually doing, and

428
00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:05,810
ultimately we're able to
achieve, is in a negative way.

429
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,460
And my responsibility, as well as the rest
of our officers and staff here at

430
00:30:10,490 --> 00:30:14,800
headquarters that are involved in this
process, is for us to do everything that

431
00:30:14,830 --> 00:30:20,420
we can to achieve the best agreement that
we possibly can for letter carriers.

432
00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:23,600
And everything that we do as it relates to

433
00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:29,700
this process and everything that we say
or don't say is geared towards that goal.

434
00:30:29,730 --> 00:30:34,420
And I am very confident
in what we are doing.

435
00:30:34,450 --> 00:30:37,900
I'm confident in the progress
that we've made so far.

436
00:30:37,930 --> 00:30:41,290
I'm confident in our people
here that are involved.

437
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,200
I'm confident in the people that we deal
with at the Postal Service that we will be

438
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:49,540
in a position hopefully
to reach an agreement.

439
00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:51,480
And in the event that we can, as I

440
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:55,330
mentioned earlier, we are ready
to go in interest arbitration.

441
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,330
I feel great about the case that we could

442
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,810
potentially put on, including the folks
that we have involved, from our attorneys

443
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,860
to expert witnesses and professionals that
we hire from outside to letter carriers

444
00:31:06,890 --> 00:31:12,380
that we've prepared to testify
should that become necessary.

445
00:31:12,410 --> 00:31:15,740
Everyone has done a great job here.

446
00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:18,740
And one thing for those that have been

447
00:31:18,770 --> 00:31:22,260
around a while, you'll know,
this process does not move fast.

448
00:31:22,290 --> 00:31:30,330
And part of the reason for that is we have
the second largest single bargaining unit

449
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,020
that's under one collective
bargaining agreement in America.

450
00:31:34,050 --> 00:31:36,260
So this collective bargaining agreement

451
00:31:36,290 --> 00:31:41,540
has a huge impact on our members, has
a huge impact on the Postal Service.

452
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:48,570
So it's a very serious process and they're
really big decisions to make in these

453
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,940
negotiations regardless of which
side of the table you're on.

454
00:31:52,970 --> 00:31:59,020
But back to the original question, doing
it quietly and in private just allows us

455
00:31:59,050 --> 00:32:04,380
to have the most open conversations
and negotiations that we have.

456
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,720
And just the way our bargaining is
structured as a result of a lot of the

457
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:12,780
things we've talked about, the history,
what's in the law now puts us in a place

458
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:19,540
where outside noise, so to speak,
doesn't improve our process in any way.

459
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:20,740
It can only harm it.

460
00:32:20,770 --> 00:32:24,040
So as we will certainly update our

461
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:28,900
members, just like we have so far as we
move to different steps in the process.

462
00:32:28,930 --> 00:32:34,330
And
if we get to the point of interest

463
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:41,900
arbitration, that'll be something that
there'll be a little more detail about

464
00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:45,140
than just our normal
negotiating discussions.

465
00:32:45,170 --> 00:32:51,090
But just to be clear, as long as we
believe we've got an opportunity to reach

466
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,090
an agreement
that will reward our members and is fair

467
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,330
to our members, we will remain
at the table and negotiate.

468
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,980
And I can tell you
the Postal Service is committed to the

469
00:33:03,010 --> 00:33:08,380
same thing and has the belief as well
as we do that we can reach agreements.

470
00:33:08,410 --> 00:33:11,700
So we're optimistic about that.

471
00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:15,290
Well, there are the questions I had
this week for collective bargaining.

472
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,570
If you think I missed a question or you
have your own question about collective

473
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,050
bargaining, you can get into our
Ask the Mailbag segment next week.

474
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:29,460
You submit your questions, please just
email us at social@nalc.org

475
00:33:29,490 --> 00:33:35,380
social@nalc.org and we'll answer
your questions hopefully.

476
00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:38,420
We have a few this week from last episode

477
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:41,900
that I want to get into
of our Ask the Mailbag.

478
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,800
And our first question, if you
got a couple of minutes for that.

479
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:45,940
You alright, Brian?
Sure.

480
00:33:45,970 --> 00:33:51,380
All right, we have Oscar Cerna
from branch 14, Louisville.

481
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,180
Got to make sure you say that right.
Kentucky

482
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,260
Louisville.
Louisville.

483
00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:55,330
There you go.
Yeah.

484
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,000
My fat Philadelphia tongue is going to

485
00:33:57,030 --> 00:34:03,620
have a tough time getting around a few of
these cities, I apologize to begin with.

486
00:34:03,650 --> 00:34:05,330
But here's his question.

487
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:11,260
UPS is negotiating a higher
wage for entry level employees.

488
00:34:11,290 --> 00:34:14,500
Does this mean we have to do the same?

489
00:34:14,530 --> 00:34:21,340
The short answer is yes, but it's not as a
result of the agreement or the tentative

490
00:34:21,370 --> 00:34:25,780
agreement, I should call it,
between the Teamsters and UPS.

491
00:34:25,810 --> 00:34:29,940
That's been something, and I think I
mentioned this earlier in the podcast that

492
00:34:29,970 --> 00:34:33,740
is very important in this
round of bargaining.

493
00:34:33,770 --> 00:34:39,260
We've talked a lot about the CCA
classification in the past and how in its

494
00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:42,020
current form, it doesn't
work in our craft anymore.

495
00:34:42,050 --> 00:34:44,100
And a big piece of that is starting pay.

496
00:34:44,130 --> 00:34:46,540
But the same is also true

497
00:34:46,570 --> 00:34:52,100
with career employees and
where our PTFs start as well.

498
00:34:52,130 --> 00:34:54,980
So the short answer is yes.

499
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,940
There's no question that a higher starting

500
00:34:56,970 --> 00:35:03,210
pay is a big part of what we're seeking
to negotiate in this agreement.

501
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:07,300
And I feel pretty confident
about our ability to do that.

502
00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:12,900
But that's really a result of
just one, it's the right thing to do and

503
00:35:12,930 --> 00:35:17,780
reflects, I think, the value
of letter carriers to the Postal Service

504
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:20,620
and just what we deserve
for the work we do.

505
00:35:20,650 --> 00:35:25,130
But it's also driven by, in some
locations, the difficulty that we've seen

506
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,800
increase over the last few years in terms
of our ability to hire people, and in some

507
00:35:29,830 --> 00:35:33,900
of those locations,
difficulty retaining them.

508
00:35:33,930 --> 00:35:36,620
And there's nothing that improves that.

509
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,500
There's other things we can do and there's
other things I am pretty confident we will

510
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,460
do in this collective bargaining
agreement to improve that stuff.

511
00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:47,060
But there's nothing that improves it
more than a higher starting wage.

512
00:35:47,090 --> 00:35:51,860
So good question, and the
answer is an emphatic yes.

513
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:53,380
Great.

514
00:35:53,410 --> 00:35:57,300
Second question we have Don
Martinez from Branch 201.

515
00:35:57,330 --> 00:35:59,760
Is the NALC going to publicly address the

516
00:35:59,790 --> 00:36:03,720
rampant falsifications
of HIPP heat training?

517
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,940
Yeah, so I think we've done that.

518
00:36:06,970 --> 00:36:09,620
I've done multiple interviews with media

519
00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:13,210
outlets discussing a lot of
the issues with the HIPP.

520
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,820
If you go back and look at your postal

521
00:36:15,850 --> 00:36:19,780
records for the last few years, your
Director of Safety and Health, Manny

522
00:36:19,810 --> 00:36:24,260
Peralta, has written about this every
spring we put information there's a

523
00:36:24,290 --> 00:36:28,980
plethora of information on the website,
just notifying people of the HIPP.

524
00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:31,380
And for those that maybe don't know that's

525
00:36:31,410 --> 00:36:35,480
the Postal Services Heat
Illness Prevention Program.

526
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:43,340
So yeah, there's a lot of information
that we put out there about this.

527
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,580
I'll tell you.
Currently, each of our national business

528
00:36:46,610 --> 00:36:53,020
agents offices are reaching out to every
branch to find out whether this training

529
00:36:53,050 --> 00:36:56,740
was done or wasn't done
in every single location.

530
00:36:56,770 --> 00:37:00,380
And part of the reason for that is once we

531
00:37:00,410 --> 00:37:04,720
get a lot of that stuff, I'll go sit down
with the Postal Service and we'll go

532
00:37:04,750 --> 00:37:07,740
through and compare it to
what their records show.

533
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,740
And I'm pretty sure I know what
that's going to look like.

534
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:13,720
But
you can't just assume these sorts of

535
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:16,820
things on anecdotal evidence if
you really want to change it.

536
00:37:16,850 --> 00:37:22,100
And ultimately what we want to change
is we want our people to get trained.

537
00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:24,170
You really have to know what happened.

538
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,380
So if you're out there listening
and your branch hasn't gotten this

539
00:37:29,410 --> 00:37:32,900
information back to your NBA office or
you're just a rank and file

540
00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:36,100
letter carrier, hey, pick up the
phone and call your NBA office.

541
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,540
All they want to know is did the
training happen or did it not happen?

542
00:37:39,570 --> 00:37:43,340
And that'll help us in addressing
that here at the headquarters level.

543
00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:47,300
And our next episode is going to be
on HIPP training along with crime.

544
00:37:47,330 --> 00:37:49,580
If you want to get your question in,

545
00:37:49,610 --> 00:37:56,130
you could also just email it to
social@nalc.org, and if they're good, I'll

546
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,900
include it in my questions,
and we'll see how that goes.

547
00:38:00,930 --> 00:38:04,820
All right, we have another question
here from Colin from Branch 82.

548
00:38:04,850 --> 00:38:09,580
He wants to know about the recent Supreme
Court decision with the USPS

549
00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:13,300
Postmaster DeJoy, and what
that impact is going to have.

550
00:38:13,330 --> 00:38:17,540
Yeah, I guess I should give
a little bit of background.

551
00:38:17,570 --> 00:38:22,340
There was recently a decision
issued by the court in a case.

552
00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:26,900
The name of the case was
Groff versus DeJoy, and Mr.

553
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:30,020
Groff was a rural letter carrier.

554
00:38:30,050 --> 00:38:31,130
I forget where.

555
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,380
I think somewhere in the Midwest.

556
00:38:34,410 --> 00:38:36,940
And filed suit

557
00:38:36,970 --> 00:38:43,580
essentially saying the law should allow
him, due to his religious beliefs, to be

558
00:38:43,610 --> 00:38:48,620
excused or accommodated by not
having to work on Sundays.

559
00:38:48,650 --> 00:38:51,130
And this case was eventually appealed up

560
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,340
to the Supreme Court, and this was one
that we were very concerned about.

561
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:58,740
And NALC, along with

562
00:38:58,770 --> 00:39:02,440
several of the other unions and their
attorneys and the attorneys at the

563
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:10,620
AFL-CIO, we got together and strategized a
little bit, and we, NALC submitted a brief

564
00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:15,300
to the court where essentially what we
asked for was that this case should just

565
00:39:15,330 --> 00:39:20,100
be remanded to the lower courts for
them to apply the existing law.

566
00:39:20,130 --> 00:39:25,900
And the main reason that that was what we
asked the Court to do is

567
00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:32,130
if the Court was to rule on this and with
this Court, if that were to have happened,

568
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,100
more than likely they would have
granted that accommodation.

569
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:42,020
That would have triggered massive changes
to things like our collective bargaining

570
00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:46,380
agreement, article eight,
the way we schedule.

571
00:39:46,410 --> 00:39:50,900
It would be a very disruptive result.

572
00:39:50,930 --> 00:39:56,840
So by sending it back to the lower level
and just allowing that court to apply the

573
00:39:56,870 --> 00:40:02,260
law, then it would apply to just this
case and this individual lawsuit.

574
00:40:02,290 --> 00:40:04,820
So thankfully, the decision of the court

575
00:40:04,850 --> 00:40:09,690
was exactly what we asked for in our
brief, and that was to remand it

576
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:15,100
back to the lower court and let the
lower court figure out what to do.

577
00:40:15,130 --> 00:40:18,780
I don't think there's been any
movement in that regard yet.

578
00:40:18,810 --> 00:40:21,780
But the short answer to the most important

579
00:40:21,810 --> 00:40:24,460
question here, which is
how does this affect us?

580
00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:27,690
Is it really doesn't have any effect on us

581
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:33,170
at the national level broadly, on our
Collective Bargain Agreement, which is

582
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:39,380
a positive thing, particularly when you
look at the makeup of this Supreme Court.

583
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:41,460
It's one that

584
00:40:41,490 --> 00:40:46,900
for a lot of reasons, whenever there's a
case that could impact us, more times than

585
00:40:46,930 --> 00:40:50,400
not,
if you had to put your money on it, you

586
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,170
would bet that it's not
going to go our way.

587
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,740
But in this particular case, thankfully,

588
00:40:54,770 --> 00:40:59,860
it was the result that we
had asked for in our brief.

589
00:40:59,890 --> 00:41:07,820
So bump in the road, so to speak, but no
long term impact, at least not right now.

590
00:41:07,850 --> 00:41:10,080
So in some ways we dodged a little bit of

591
00:41:10,110 --> 00:41:14,940
a bullet there, but we'll see if the
issue comes up again in the future.

592
00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:17,210
But thankfully, this one turned out the

593
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:21,500
way that was best for our
members around the country.

594
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:23,170
Great.
All right.

595
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,130
That was our Ask the Mailbag segment,

596
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,540
so that's bring us to conclusion
of our episode this week.

597
00:41:30,570 --> 00:41:32,500
Hopefully I'll be back next week.

598
00:41:32,530 --> 00:41:36,020
If not, I'll see you on my
mail route carrying mail.

599
00:41:36,050 --> 00:41:40,300
Thank you for listening to this episode
of You Are the Current Resident podcast.

600
00:41:40,330 --> 00:41:44,500
Please subscribe to the podcast so that
you don't miss an episode and please share

601
00:41:44,530 --> 00:41:48,420
the podcast with our NALC
brothers and sisters.

602
00:41:48,450 --> 00:41:52,020
You can follow the NALC on social media,

603
00:41:52,050 --> 00:41:56,130
on Facebook, Twitter,
Instagram and Threads.

604
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,100
You can find links to our accounts in the
episode description, and you can follow

605
00:42:01,130 --> 00:42:05,500
President Renfro on
Twitter at brianrenfroe19.

606
00:42:05,530 --> 00:42:07,500
If you have any questions to submit or

607
00:42:07,530 --> 00:42:14,620
some feedback about this new podcast
again, please email us at social@nalc.org.

608
00:42:14,650 --> 00:42:17,500
I'd like to give you a
little treat on the way out.

609
00:42:17,530 --> 00:42:20,620
May your feet stay dry, your head be cool,

610
00:42:20,650 --> 00:42:23,690
may your bag be light and
your mail run in order.

611
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:27,740
May your steward be by your side
and your union have your back.

612
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:29,960
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.