Meagan Francis... a self-described "entrepreneur, conversationalist, and mother of invention". Ep 62

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode sixty two. Today we'll be talking with Megan Francis, who is one of Sarah and my favorite podcasters. She hosts The Mom Hour, which we've both taken to listening to and have listeners out there who are looking for a more parenting focused podcast. We would strongly recommend it. She and her co host, Sarah It's also another Sarah are very you know, straightforward and authentic, and yet you know they're having a lot of fun with it too. They have eight kids between the two of them and so going on but some fun stuff. They also do kind of extra episodes on things just like what's in my purse, which is surprisingly fascinating. What is in your purse? I don't know. I don't think anyone needs to know. What's in my purse is probably embarrassing. But good Sola run out of ideas personal so lot's to talk about with her later in this segment. But first, you know the introduction here. This is going to be airing in early October, which in my part of the world in Pennsylvania is a very beautiful time. Leaves changing, not so much in your part of the world, right, Sarah, No, it's like very disappointing. Everyone's all pumpkin spice, and it's like, huh, feels like July just darker because you you grew up up here and then you selfheads fall and so you exactly your pumpkin spice exactly. I'll just get my just desserts in January. But that's okay, that's exactly when the rest of it. What kind of fun fall activities are you guys going to do? So we have a fall fun list, just like we've had a summer fun list, and part of this Fall is one of my favorite seasons. I really love the leaves changing, the crisp weather, it's good for running, biking, that sort of thing. Also, just you know, getting the outdoor time before you go into the long, horrible winter season. So I make this fall fun list of the things like going for a hay ride and going for a hike somewhere through the leaves, going for a long bike ride. Last fall. I had put stuff like going to visit Cape May in the fall because the beach is actually a very fascinating and beautiful place to be in the fall, especially there because the birds, many birds stop there on the flight south, so there's some pretty incredible bird watching opportunities there too. So yeah, I've been making the activity list for this fall, and I think the hay ride is going to wind up back up on there. There's this amazing pumpkin fest type thing which I forgot what its name even is, but in one of the parks in philadelph they just have like thousands of carved pumpkins all lit up and it's it's a really cool thing to walk around and see. So I think that's gonna wind up on our list as well. So you're not going to do anything fall specific if there's no all the things you're saying, I'm just thinking I'm picturing being outside and it's like it's going to be eighty seven and very humid, and I don't know, I'm not I don't really have my I don't have fall mojo. I think the most thing I'm excited for Fall is just kind of getting into the routine of school. And you know, by the time this airs, we'll be thinking about Halloween and that's kind of fun. Yeah, I guess it'll be time for like the time change, by the times that's come out, I'm not quite you guys be into the flow of fall activities. You decided to keep things pretty simple this year, right, Yes, yeah, because of the baby and because I you know, she's going to need to sort of establish some sort of an app routine someday. I hope. I just try to go for one pick up basically for the two older kids, and so I'm generally not there, and my day of the week varies for week to weeks, so I can't know that, oh, every Wednesday I'll be there to help do some complex thing. I pretty much arranged it so the kids have something after school, but it ends about the same time, and then the one activity they have outside of the school. They're in it gymnastics together, which meant a little bit of a I sort of sacrificed. It wasn't the perfect class for my older one, but the instructor said it was fine, and I felt like fine with a convenient pickup was better than perfect and two separate classes which was going to make things crazy. So a little bit of a compromise, but I think I think simple as best for this year. Now that you guys have your spreadsheet all all up and running, I have my spreadsheet. I live by my spreadsheets here, so I made the fall activity schedule on a spreadsheet. So if you have listeners to this who would like a similar spreadsheet, you can just go to my website or ty. If you google VANDERCAM manage your time, it should pop up the version that you don't have to enter your email. But it's just like a thirty minute time log, the same one I used to track my time. So it has the days of the week along the top, the half hour blocks from five am to you know, four thirty am or whatever it is along the left side, and I fill in everyone's activities on the days of the week that they are and the reason to do this is so you can see visually, like, you know, does this work? A lot of our activities are offered multiple times per week, like karate meets six times per week, so you choose one or two to go to, which is great. But I knew this. I knew when they'd be offered ahead of time, so you know, it's the kind of thing that I could just plan ahead of time instead. Do you have like a mini column for each kid in the spreadsheet over But the reason, oh, okay, because I overlap it, because it doesn't actually help to Oh so you can overlap and excel like little overlays. Well no, I'm just typing in like s swim slash. Oh okay, this is not fancy. No, I'm to do any like calculations off of it. So it doesn't have to fit a certain form really, but that way I can sort of see visually what the week looks like. I had certain goals. I wanted to leave one day free, like activity free for you know, partly give a breather in the middle of the week. Also, so it's a day we know we can always do play dates or that, you know, I know I can work later if I need to I also tried to have a couple of days that you know, there was just one thing or something, because that way I could you know, or Nanna can just do the driving for that and I can also work. Part of part of the reason to this spread juice is to protect my work time because you know, I had this realization last year that I was ending my work days at you know, four ten more frequently than I really probably should have. Well, and spoiler for the episode up ahead, but you know that that can be a challenge for many of us, many people who work at home who don't have really firm kind of protection. Because Megan a little bit about that although she has she has a little bit of a different scenario. Yeah, and so that she'd have kids coming in, there's the things. I mean, the kids coming in as one thing, but then actually stopping to go drive people to swim at four ten is you know even more like then I'm not going to get to this stuff. And so I wanted to have you know, some expectations there. So Monday, I'm doing a lot of driving, Like I have to end my day at like four ten, and I will be driving through till about eight o'clock. But with you get to end your day at four, I get to end my day, and I won't. I'll be doing email at karate, I'll be you know, probably reading books that I'm reviewing while that's swim, or you know, maybe I'll bring my running clothes and try to run while somebody's at swim, and I'll use the time it also a little bit sounds that's good, good multitasking, and I'll be built in a break with that. With so I'm responsible for driving the eleven year old on that day, and there will be times that he and I can hang out for a bit, and I think that's probably gonna be a good thing. I think he's gonna need some of that, just the way things are kind of playing out right now. So he's going to be in middle he's going to be in middle school. I know, wow, But yeah, no, this thing is a And I also wanted to make sure that weekend afternoons were open, so all our kid weekend activities are in the mornings on weekends, so that way we have the ability to like take off at you know, noon or at eleven and go do a daytime activitily, go hike somewhere, or go and biking somewhere and instead of having something chopping it up in the in the middle of the afternoon. So I got to say, this is this is a thing of beauty. I made this spreadsheet, and I like, only you have one from last year that you could share? You know. Obviously nobody wants to put out there where their kids are every minute, but if you have like an old one, maybe you could post it. Yeah, although the places they're going are exactly the same as they are the show. Oh maybe not. Then you could you could make a fake one food. Yeah, if my children were in soccer, this is what they would get, exactly switched the days around. I don't know, you know, but I was so excited about it. I had to call my eleven year old in here to look at it, and I feel like he was like, did he appreciate it? I don't think he liked it. I was like, you need to promote a spreadsheet. He's like, Okay, it's an awesome spreadsheet. And I said, thank you, And then I sent it to our nanny and sent it to my husband. I you know, made it clear that I wanted both of them to like give me the appropriate praise for having cranked out this spread and did they just write like, okay, they were. My husband made a point of like, at the time, our printer wasn't working at home, so I had to print it up from the office. He was like, I printed multiple copies and looking at this, that's nice, that's good. The activity schedule, Oh my gosh. Well this this is a long intro. We got to get into Meghan. Okay, all right, let's go rite into Megan. Well, we are very excited to welcome Meghan Francis to the Best of Both Worlds podcasts today. Megan is the co host of The Mom Hour, as well as many many other things. And Sarah and I both listened to The mom All right, Sarah, it's one of your favorites. I do you listen to it too, That's awesome. I do. I started listening because you recommend it. And I knew Megan from way back, but I sort of missed that she was on the podcast circuit now. But you've had some reinventions, right me gu Yeah, I have. Yeah, And and hey, guys, really good to be on the show. Aria. We do go away, we go way way back, like I do, like eight nine, ten years. I mean, it's a long time. I'm not surprised that people don't necessarily know if they're kind of in my like inner circle, that I've been doing the podcast thing pretty much exclusively, because I feel like I've also sort of fallen off the face of the earth social media wise for a little while, which I'm trying to rectify now because that's got some drawbacks, like no one knows what I'm doing unless they're already listening to podcasts. So but yeah, I've I can walk you through, like I why did you first? You know, since I had my sort of stunted introer of youre, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to our our listeners and then talk a little bit about your you know, career and family journey. Sure, okay, Well I'm Megan Francis. I'm the mom of five kids. They are youngest is nine and oldest is now twenty. I I live in Michigan. I have gone through many pivots actually over the last fifteen or so years. I just recently got divorced, so things have been kind of wacky since then. I'll lead up to that, but that's led to some interesting career pivots and then pivot backs. But I started really my career as a freelance writer in the when I was in my mid twenties. I was It's kind of funny. I was thought of myself as such a young writer when I'd go to like Asja and stuff, and now, Laura, I think, I'm like exactly the age everybody else was when I got started, so exactly. You know, it's fun We used to be the young writers. Yes, we were the young writers, and suddenly we weren't anymore. I don't even know when that happened. Yeah, yeah, But I really focused on magazine writing for a long time, and then I had a blog, but I really didn't take blogging seriously as like any kind of career profession until like the late two thousands, and I started to blog The Happiest Mom, which later became The Happiest Home, and those really seemed to resonate and kind of found an audience and took off. And so I was really deep in that world, the influencer world as they call it, or they call it now, and they didn't call it that then for probably three or four years, and doing really well at it. But I started podcasting just for fun, and I've been podcasting since twenty twelve. I just kind of started it off really early. It really is, especially train Yeah, especially an hour, I think niche. I think before that there were a lot of like humor and like politics and tech and stuff, but like you didn't hear from a lot of women podcasters talking about stuff like family life and motherhood and work life balance and all that stuff. So I was pretty early. And then I kind of saw that start to take off around twenty fourteen. And at the time I had just been blogging, like it got to the point and maybe you guys can relate to this, especially you Lurk. I know that you spent a lot of time. You know, you did a weekly newsletter for a long time. I don't know if you still do. Sorry, I've also lost a little bit of track with my friends and sorry, nobody needs to keep opening my span. Yeah, but like you start to lose track of what you've actually written about. And I would be looking through my site and I would find stuff. I'd think, oh, I'm going to write about this or that, and then I would find the post that I had been planning to write. I would realize I'd already written it, and it was like three years earlier, so I thought, oh, I totally get that. Yeah, like I said, everything I need to say in this format right now, in this medium. And the funny thing is, I've always always always been a writer first and foremost, and I stopped writing. I just stopped, like I ran. I was also my marriage wasn't doing super well, and I was kind of the way I described it was, I was sort of like falling out of love with my life and and just looking for a different way to sort of talk about what was going on with me. And it wasn't the written word, which was interesting. You would think I'd be like hitting the page really hard and really working through stuff, and I wasn't. I didn't want to write at all for a while, so I didn't and I started podcasting instead. I really kind of doubled down in that. And at the time, the woman who was Sarah Powers, who at the time was working with me on my blog as a managing editor for it, I said, Hey, you want to start do you want to start a podcast together? And so we did, and so we've been doing that. The mom hour, which I would say now is like definitely our biggest show. We do have a network, and I'll talk about that a little bit, but we've been doing that for three years, and that, like, I was amazed, honestly. First of all, I think as someone who's a writer by trade, I have a really hard time letting go in writing. I perfectionist about it. I go back and check every period, placement and every word and like really massage it. And with a podcast you can't. We really don't have the ability to do that quite so much. So I found it very freeing just to kind of let go of that stuff. And then we just also found that the podcast community was so responsive and engaged. I was I don't know about you guys, but I was amazed by the amount of email we got. I didn't think that that would be the case, but people really responded to us in a very person way. It is. We do get a lot of email, and well not probably not not on the level that you guys get, but yeah, a lot of interesting voices, a lot of constructive criticism. Actually, I just listened to your most one of your most recent episodes, and you were talking about how that Sarah was talking about how that was one of the harder aspects. And I kind of get that because podcasting does feel very personal and when you put all that out there and then you get someone being like, wow, I don't see how that works. It can be it can be hard. But at that said, you can also learn a lot from those comments. And I think for me, it's stuff like I'll just let something slip because it's a conversation between a really good friend of mine, and you let something slide and like, oh, I never would have put that in an essay, Like I would have edited that way out, and it's already out there, and I'm not going to go remove the thought that I had, you know. And so we're very very honest, and people love that, and I think sometimes it also makes me feel like really exposed. So so yeah, So then two years ago, almost two years ago, my husband of nearly twenty years and night separated and during that time, I really, I like lost my mojo. It's the only way I can really put it. I I just I've always been someone who loves kind of the pitch and the thrill of the chase and finding the work. And I was still doing a lot of writing work, but not like personal writing. I was just doing like client content stuff, and I just I just didn't want to pitch anymore. I just didn't want to sell anymore. I didn't want to put myself out there anymore. And so I took a job like a nine to five at a marketing agency as a copywriter, and that lasted like all of ten months. I actually quit there. Yeah, you weren't quite going to go back into the Yes, it just agency life. I mean, it was just not what I was I have been self employed for way too long now I am spoiled, so I couldn't. Like it was fine for a while. I liked the people, it did some interesting work, but like after about nine months, well after about six months, I was already like trying to plan my exit strategy and figured out a way. Got together with Sarah. We figured out a way to make it. You know that we've been making money in the podcast and it's been profitable. So we've kind of just figured out a way to finagle it where I have a certain amount that I can count on and then I can kind of fill in any cracks and can really hit it full time. So that's what we're doing now. So it's been like since this time last year, right around this time last year. Actually, this may have been the day last year that I accepted the offer for the marketing. I think this actually was the date one year ago. So I started like a couple days after. And so it's been like a year, a crazy, crazy year, but all good, all good in the end. Well, and your business is you know, so you have the mom hour with the two of you, but then you're a whole network because is your business right, So the network is called Life Listened. And that was my dream. Like when I started the first podcast that I did, I thought, well, I'd love to have like a little network of female oriented podcasts like run by Women that are all the kind of cover all the lifestyle topics. And I thought all that stuff, but I didn't do it. And what I really needed to make that happen and to do it was Sarah, Like I really needed that partner who was good in the places I wasn't good and could focus on stuff that I'm I'm not out terribly focused sometimes I'm kind of all over the place. And that was really the special cell, Like that was the partnership that needed to happen. To make it happen, and we got together was it like a year and a half ago, and just made a plan and then we actually did the stuff we said we were going to do. We kind of keep joking that, like we said we wanted four shows in the network, and then six months later we had four shows in the network, and then we said we wanted to have two more, and then we had two more, and so we have a network now. So in addition to the show that we produce, we have four others that are current, and we you know, sell advertising for hours and for theirs as well. And now we're kind of developing that model into kind of like a boutique ad agency as well, so where we'll be able to bring in shows outside of our own immediate network and also sell ads on their behalf. And so we've got like a lot of irons in the fire right now. That's all exciting stuff. That's awesome, and you have it. You're juggling a very full personal life too. I mean, five kids is obviously a fair amount of children. Were you always one of those people who wanted a big family or that that just happened? No, I did, Actually I didn't. Five wasn't necessarily number I was that four or five. I came from a family of four siblings, and I liked that number. And I also liked the idea of kind of one upping my parents and going for the fifth. And I, you know, it's kind of funny, like I had four boys, and so everyone thinks that the reason I had the fifth was because I wanted a girl, and that's not really the case, because by that point I had totally given up on thinking I would ever have a girl, or yeah, a girl, and so it was more that I got to be ahead all my kids in my twenties except for my last one. And I was thirty one, and I remember saying to my now ex husband, like, you know, I'm kind of an on the fence about having another kid. Our youngest at the time was like two, and I said, so, if we're going to do it, we should just we should just do it, Like, if we're going to do it, this is it, because after this, I think the factory is going to be closed. Like I don't. I don't think I want to have one, like a caboose baby in my mid thirties, after spending my entire twenties basically breastfeeding, so he was like okay, and we didn't really take it super seriously and it took me like one months to get pregnant, so of course, yeah, of course, right, So but yeah, I love having fight, I love having a big family. It's totally different now than it was then. I mean, it was so insane for a while. Like I had five kids under the age of eleven, and at that time, you know, I couldn't leave them at home to go anywhere. So every time I went out in public, I had like at least four of them, and that's when I look back and go, geez, like, what a crazy time. Now it's like they're all kind of doing their own stuff, and you know, my youngest is selfish. She can make her own sandwich and get her own glass of milk. Like, they don't need me in the same way. It's more like getting them places and making sure they're keeping up with their schoolwork and stuff. It's just a very different kind of parenting now, which I know you can relate to as well, but yeah, it's just different. Well, one of the reasons I love your podcast is because you do talk about all those changes, and because you're partner. Sarah has younger kids although they're getting older. It's really cool to hear the contrast. And I have to say, like, there's definitely for those of you who haven't listened to the Mom Hour, if you want to hear a mom finding joy in some chaos. Megan does that really well. I mean, even though they are older, you've got a lot going on, and yet you kind of come off as quite relaxed under those circumstances. It's pretty inspiring. I typically am, and I think that's part of what allowed me. And I think one of the fun things about Sarah and I talking is that we have very different ways of approaching parenthood and but it's based on our personalities. Our personalities are really different. We agree on a lot of stuff, but we just come at it from a completely different angle. And so no, it's awesome, you guys, you your great compliments. Yeah, And I think one of the reasons that I was able to have five kids and not lose my mind is because things like noise and chaos didn't really ever bother me. And that can be a blessing and a curse is you know that also doesn't really incentivize you to get on top of it until sometimes it's a problem. So I've been on both sides of that. There's I've had to learn some workarounds, that's for sure. Yeah, well, I'm sure the logistics of getting five kids to activities is quite a quite an issue. And now you have the additional logistics. So you you and your ex husband have pretty much split custody, right is that? How? Yes? And so it's like half a week on, half a week off week how we do it week off? Was that? I mean, we could talk a little bit about the divorce. You've been amazingly honest about it on the podcast, which I think is also one of the reasons the podcast is so awesome, just the authenticity on there. But I'm pondering, like, boy, like the logistics, the sheer moving kids around from one household to another sounds like this added layer. I'm very curious how you guys make that work. Well, you know, it's been evolving. So the first gosh, almost a year we lived in the same house and he and I went and they called that nesting or something like that. There's a name for it. Oh, that's very interesting. I've never heard of that. But that actually, from the logistics standpoint, doesn't sound terrible. We lived in this big house and it fit everyone really really well, and we were kind of like, well, what would be the point of us both having to have like expensive big houses right now? And then like how like the uprooting for everybody, and like that just felt like a bummer to me and to everybody, And I think we neither one of us was ready for that. So we both had places outside of the house that we could stay at during or we also had the house kind of set up in such a way that we didn't weren't really in each other's spaces too much. So I think that that year was really good. It was very hard, and I would never do it again. But I'm not saying I wouldn't do it again, like I would. I don't regret it at all. I think it was the right thing for us to do, but like, I couldn't put myself back in that situation. And my son said to me kind of wistfully, like remember the one we just all lived in one house and we could just get like a really huge mansion and we could all live in again. And I was like, honey, I think we're all past that, Like we don't need to go back to that, and it wasn't hard, Like it wasn't hard in that we were in a personally fighting. It was more like, how you part of divorcing is creating something new out of something that's fallen apart or broken, and you can't really do that when things haven't changed around you like there was. It was really hard to find my own space. I tended to just kind of gravitate between the kitchen and my bedroom. I stopped going in certain areas of the house, like I didn't want to be in the living room anymore. So it like the house started to feel like very foreign to me, and I found myself avoiding it. So that was like, it was fine, and I think it was good. It was a good transition. But then now for the last gosh, I guess almost a year, well like ten months, ten eleven months something like that. He's lived about thirty minutes away, and we switched the kids on and off, and it's actually not that crazy. Part of it is because the two older ones are now so much older, they kind of get themselves where they need to go, and they kind of have their own lives too, like they sort of just float in and out. One of them is more full time with me, and one of them is more full time with him, and they're both working and both doing you know, their stuff that they've got going on, so or we don't really have to take them anywhere, and the other three have their stuff that's at dad's and they have their stuff that's at moms, and they have backpacks that they carry back and forth. And it just works. I don't know, like it's not perfect. The stuff that's the stuff that doesn't work is really annoying stuff, Like I realized, they really need to have each have two sets of extra hats, gloves, They need to have an extra swimsuit, they have to have stuff that just stays at moms or dads because it's always that time you need that thing that you don't have it. And sometimes things would happen like oh, a school book would get left at a house and we wouldn't have it. But their teachers have been really understanding, and it's just it hasn't been that big of a deal. It is a hassle. But then I have three days a week or I don't have any kids in my house at all, where I just had the yeah, because it's this complete difference between like lots of yeah and no kids. It's but it's weird. I mean, I'm very it's well, I'm still getting honestly, I am still getting used to just like getting to the point where I feel fine staying home for the evening and cook for myself. Like that's taking time to get used to that because for the first year we had the arrangement that we had when it was like my night off in quotes, I would leave, so I got used to not being there during those days. And then I'm like, well, now I have my house and like I can be in it. And like nesting was hard, and I used to be a big nester and I had to almost kind of retrain myself to do that. So I did end up moving out of the big house and into a much smaller house that felt like my space and was much more manageable, and that's worked really well, and I feel like now I can take care of it a little bit better and it feels fresher and like I'm just feeling a little more re energized on that front. But like the how to, like what do I do with myself stuff? It's amazing how quickly the time still goes. Like I tend to frontload my work week to the part of the week that I don't have the kids, so I do a lot of work when I don't have them. I've also been working like crazy for the last year, so like I had a full time job, plus on top of that, I was doing this radio morning show, which I'm actually letting go of because it's just too much. So I've been busy, like I just been out and not around that much. And I think that's what my solution, I think up till now has been just stay really really really busy and then I don't have to think about it. And now I'm coming into a phase where I'm just not gonna be as busy outside of my house anymore. And I think that's good. Like I think I need it to kind of recenter myself a little bit. But it's hard, it's not it's not easy for you. Or are you actually like cooking yourself? Well, I'll tell you what. I I don't eat over the sink. I do try to sit down when I eat, but I'm terrible, Like I'll I'm terrible about cooking for myself. I'm trying to get better at it. Like I've definitely come up with a couple of recipes that are just things I could just throw together easily for maybe me and then have like a leftover in the fridge for the next day or whatever. But like that's that's been hard too, Like I'm just figuring out, Like I feel like I'm still in this figuring it all out phase. I tend to eat stuff like a peanut butter sandwich because I don't care and it's easy and I eat all there's no shame in that whatsoever. Or that. Yeah, well, and you know it's a startup, new stuff and I made some new your career, new house. And for those following Megan on Instagram, I just saw the the dating site profile. Was that actually, oh yeah, how you know tell us about that? Oh yeah, well, I I posted a funny thing so about when you just give up on your dating profile and I put like one sarcastic sentence in it because I've had like I've changed my profile a million times and no matter what it is, it's always dumb and like, like I mean, the results are always dumb. So I've actually been on dating sites for like a year, and oh it's kind of the worst. I have to say, it seems like dating is really complicated now, like much more so than like I missed that whole thing. Yeah. Well, and I got married really young, and it was someone I knew from well, we went to high school together. We didn't date in high school, but we went to the same college and we had the same friends, and we just decided we liked each other. You know, It's like it was so simple, and now what what tends to happen? At least at my age where I live, And I live in a small town, which also complicates things, Like everyone I know my age is pretty much married, like most people aren't on their first divorces yet. I'm a little bit new, you know, early to the scene there, so they are still married or if or they're really early stages or for whatever reason, we're just not a good fit. So I have not met a single person, like through the usual channels who has been a really good candidate to date. So then it's like, okay, well what do I do? So everyone uses the apps? So I think the apps have become the usual channels. I mean, I don't did you read disease on Sorry's book? I think it was like modern romance or essays from it, And yeah, I thought it was spot on the one where he talked about what it would be like if you went up and swipe left on somebody's face because they didn't like the same team. Yes, yes, yes, And that's really what it's boiled down to. It becomes this very superficial like lists like laundry lists, like do I like the things that this person said in this paragraph? But otherwise, like what do you have to go on? Even at a bar, you know, you have a first impression that's created by their whatever they say or look like or how they're dressed. But the problem is an app doesn't leave anything for the next thing, which is having a conversation or getting to know someone naturally. So on the other hand, I have met some really interesting people that I absolutely would otherwise not have met. So it's kind of like and I don't have any problem, Like I can be out and start conversations with men. I do it all the time. I'm actually pretty good at it. And my millennial friends are like, wow, I can't believe you talk to people at the bar. That's like, well, that's what what you do, right, You go to the bar and you talk to people I don't think they're not in that world. Like my thirty young thirties friends are like, what that's not You wait and make sure that they think you're cute first, and then like you don't. There's not as much putting yourself out there because you both already bought in on each other. So to some degree, but to me, that takes all the fun out of it, because isn't part of the fun like figuring out if someone likes you or figuring out if you like somebody. So I mean, I don't know, it's kind of a hot mess. I'm I vacillate daily between turning them off, like deleting them for good because they get very boring. I've had some of the most boring text conversations of my life and some of these apps. But every now and then you're like, oh, this person's kind of interesting, interesting enough for a date. So I don't know. I keep hanging on because everybody else is. It just seems like the thing to do. But I'm not taking it very seriously these days. So I guess that's my long answer. Check back with me and like a good balance. So yeah, and I think most people aren't taking it very seriously. That's why nothing happens like nothing, there's no traction on anything because everyone's just kind of under screwing around and not really taking, not really expecting a lot, so their investment's very low. It's it's just a strange. It's a very strange little ecosystem that I'm living in at the moment. But it is what it is, right it maybe a one day i'llrite a book about it. I'd be great, Yeah you would read it. But what we want to know, you know, day in the life of Megan's now I know that. I mean our reader, our listeners love like sort of logistics and everything. Obviously, you have two very different days in life, because there's day in a life, yes it's without kids, and day in the life with kids. So if maybe you could do a quick run through of both, Like so if you don't have your kids with you, Yeah, does a day look like for you? Yeah? Well okay, so let me give you I'll give you the what it looks like currently, like right now, and then I'll give you what I'm hoping it's going to look like because I'm about to leave. So I've been doing this radio gig for two years. Right around the time the time I started separating from my ex, I was asked to co host a morning radio show, like Megan in the Morning kind of a thing. So I've been doing that. So that means I have to get up run six thirty and go in to the station and I'm there from seven until nine nine thirty, depending on the day. And so what was happening during the school year. This was just a crazy hot mess, which is part of the reason I'm letting it go, because like I would get my daughter, I would jump on the mic the days I had my kids in my kitchen while I'm making like my tea and bacon or whatever. And then between segments, I would be waking my kids up and like making sure they all had their stuff and making sure they get ready, and then I'd be like, shmum's on the radio, and then they would all shut up, and then I would do my segment and then I would jump off again. And see that sounds I'm interrupting because that's insane. Like that sounds insane. It was insane. There were like three and four minute segments. But like there's a lot of like you kind of have to be paying attention in between, because you maybe have two songs break, so it's not a lot of time. And on the days I didn't have my kids, it was super easy. Would just show up at the station and just you know, get on the mic and shoot the crap with my co host. It's not a hard job, and I always thought it was really fun. But in the days that I had the kids, Oh, and then I would always go in as soon as I dropped my daughter off at school, I would go in and be live in studio for like an hour because there was like people would come in for interviews, so I'd drop my daughter off and like zoomed the station to make sure I got there in time for my next segment. So it was insane, and I finally was like, this is why am I doing this to myself? Like just because I can do something doesn't mean I should, and like I'm not the point where it was really good for me. I think for a while, to have a reason to get up in the morning and get out the door and like be dressed and all that stuff, and have someone that I could talk to every day, that was like fun, and I think that was really good for me. But i'm i'm it's become more hassle than it's worth. So then I would have started the rest of my day, So then I would have gone home, and if my kids were home, like during the summer, you know, you just kind of end up on the days you have them, you know, you do that sort of like work at home mom, Like you're working, but then you're interrupted and you have to make a snack or a lunch, and then maybe you know, it's summer, so let's go to the beach, and it's like just a lot of back and forth. I've never really relied too heavily on activities because then I just find that that's one more thing I have to worry about, and like getting them there then picking them up or having someone else pick them up. So they have activities, but they don't. They've never had like full day camps that they've been doing. It's more like we have friends down the street that they can play with and we do a lot of swapping and stuff like that. So that would be a way it would look like in the summer and during the school year, I would I would just work at home, try to fit in a workout. I do the most mediocre workout ever, which is something I'm hoping to change because I'd like to get in better shape again. But what I'm hoping it's going to start looking like is that I will get up on the days that I have the kids, get them off to school, go to the gym, maybe do a real workout, you know, come back, and then have a nice long stretch of work day, like a four or five hour stretch. Then they come home around three thirty four and do some quality time, so like really not have those days, be super focused on work just enough, and then the days that they're not here basically just work. And that really hasn't changed too much. It's just that now two and a half days, two and a half work days a week, I don't have my kids at all, So those days I can just sit there and like do that zombie thing in front of my computer, you know, like we're all in showered and you're like kind of slumped over in front of your computer, like you haven't looked up in a while, and you forget to go to the bathroom. Like I'll probably have a couple days like that a week, which is gonna be good because I need to focus so you know, the slight irony to that is like I feel like many men kind of it's almost like they already have that built in, Like you have that because you actually don't have your kids with you a couple of days, but there's a lot like there are definitely days my husband like barely seize the kids, and that's just accepted, whereas it seems almost radical for you to have days to be fully I know, to be fully immersed. I'm not used to it. I have never really had that. And it's funny. When I was, you know, separated, but my ex was still living in the house. There would be days that I would be working at the house and a kid would wander into my room where I'm working and be like, Mom, do you think that I could have? First of all, they'd ask me something ridiculous like that they don't have to ask permission for, like can I have an apple? My kids know that they don't have to ask permission to eat a piece of fruit. And then I would just spoken for some love exactly, and I would be like sure, And then I would say where's your dad and they'd say, oh, he's in the kitchen. I would say, real that's funny walk three rooms away to ask me if I could do something that was in the same room where your dad is. And so we finally had to be a little more specific about like mom doesn't exist right now, Like I know I'm here, and I'll come out and talk to everybody later and i'll say good night to you before the end of the night. But like, as far as you're all concerned, dad is the only person parenting so and I think that was instructive for him, Like I think he learned a lot from that, and I think the kids learned how to become a little more just discerning about who they went to. So in some ways it was a really good thing because I feel like now they just and they're getting older too, which helps. But now I can say, you know, I really can't help you with that. For a few minutes I'm working, I'm gonna need like I'm gonna need an hour. And I'll say that to my daughter and she's like, Okay, I know what that means, and she'll go, amuse yourself for an hour and come back. But she's nine now, Like I can expect that if or I couldn't expect that when she was four in the same way. So yeah, some of it it's gotten easier, but some of that's also because they're getting older, not just because I don't have them in my house a couple of days a week exactly. So as you're going to be able to, you know, focus more on building your business, like what's next for life? Listen, how do you see this growing? Ever? Oh? All kinds of fun stuff. So one of the things we really want to do. All of our shows so far have been this kind of like conversational, like two person conversational show, just like what you guys do, and we would really like to experiment. I have been really inspired by some of the more narrative, more produced shows, the ones that are kind of NPR and I really love those. But those we've never been able to even think about doing something like that because we just don't have time. Like right now. It's you know, just the way how crazy my work life has been. And Sarah's three kids until this year, we're not all at the same school at the same time. Her youngest was in preschool, so she only had a few days and like they were all over town. So this is the first year where I'm going to be home and she's going to be home like for an entire school day Monday through Friday, which is really exciting, and it's going to make everything easier, Like you know, and you guys probably deal with this too, Like just sitting down together at the same time to record can be really challenging, so imagine when we have multiple times during the week we could do that and talk about stuff. So that's really exciting. We really want to get a community going, and I don't I don't know if you guys are familiar with Patreon or if you use Patreon. It's something we've thought about for years and it's basically like a membership model for people who don't know where for like a few bucks a month, kind of your super fans or or you're really engaged listeners can basically join this community and get access to premium content or back behind the scenes stuff, maybe like some kind of additional engagement that they wouldn't get otherwise. And it's just a really fun way to both support the show but also become part of its community. And that's something that we keep talking about doing. You know how it is, and like you're just squeezing everything in as much as you can with the time that you have, you talk about stuff and you don't make it happen. So that's one of the things we really want to do. And I mean, even if it's only one percent of the people who are listening to us, I think though, that one percent really wants it. So we're really Yeah, and that's a cool model because I mean, it's it's a revenue generator without it being I mean, we don't currently have ads. We don't have anything against ads, but but it's totally you guys, you know what I mean, Like you're not selling anything else, You're selling yourselves, which is really cool because that's the product that people come to your podcast for anyway. So I think that's great. Yeah, yeah, So and I don't know besides that, I think we just want to I want to be more. I need to stay more on top of what's happening with podcasting. Like when I first started podcasting, I was listening to podcasts all the time. I really I felt like I had a really good handle on sort of the the community around it and sort of that ecosystem. And it blew up. It exploded. In the last six years since I started that first show, so like I have not been able to keep up on what's happening, Like there's trends now, there's new shows coming out all the time that I want to check out, and I haven't really had the time to do that. So I'm hoping to listen more as well, which I'm excited about that because it's kind of hard to keep producing something if you're not consuming it ever. And I know for myself, I've always gone through phases where I consume more and then produce more, and consume more and produce more. But after a while you start to kind of like lose touch with what's going on around you. So yeah, that's another goal. The hazard of podcastings. There's so many good ones that you want to listen to out there, and there's only right you can't listen to more than one. Have you tried? Have you tried listening on like two times? Because I do I do. I do one point five and I probably could ramp it up. Actually, now that I'm used to one point five, my husband thinks I'm crazy. But then once you start getting used to that, then like the regular speed sounds, so then you want to listen to the regular go to. Yeah, exactly. I've listened. I've never listened to a podcast on higher speed. I've listened to audiobooks, and I find it really hard to get used to. So I'm worried that it would make podcasts listening that it's fun for me, but I might try it. Oh, definitely try the one point five you get used to. And I've listened. That's how I listen to your podcast, And you guys are, to be honest, the person who sounds the fastest when I do that is myself. And I don't know if it's because like obvious, because I actually speak quickly, or because my own head I'm like used to hearing how I hope. I don't know. It's very interesting, yeah, but yeah, you guys sound great on one point right. Good to know see if anyone's trying to squeeze us in a little less than an hour, and just try that way, make the mom our last forty five minutes or the mom forty exactly the mom forty you got it. We always end up our segments with our our love of the week. It is just something that is, you know, making life awesome for us. Right now, Sarah and I can go first, so that we yeah, please to be time to think. So my love of the week is Crocodile Creek puzzles. Yeah. These, it's just a brand name. I don't know which if it's one of the major toy companies that has this as a you know brand, but it's Crocodile Creek. They are pretty nicely like, they've got a little hef to them, so they don't completely fall apart, and they actually stick together pretty well. Lots of interesting ones, you know, like there'll be maps like you know, the glow the world or the US, or like under the sea or pirates. But there's just a bunch of them. But they've got a lot of you know, one hundred and two hundred piece ones and those are really doable with my age kids. So I also have just the thing for puzzles. I enjoy doing them myself, and so we've collected quite a few of these, these Krackata Creek ones, so I'm always on the lookouts more get up target again, I guess for more Sarah, how about you? Well, this is gonna air much later than school at the start of school for most people, but that's okay. We're preparing for it now and I had to buy new lunch bags for the kids. But so that's not my level of the week because there's not that many lunch bags that are washable. But when I find a good one, I will put that in there. But no, we have those metal lunch Bots containers that have like segments and they close and they're in perfect shape from last year. I don't think they're I think they're always just gonna I don't think they're ever going to destruct. So I love them. And if you're looking for a durable lunchwere then you might want to check them out. Okay, you guys, I have to admit, like I totally forgot you were going to ask me this. Okay, Okay, we're totally okay. Just let me think for a second, because while you guys were talking then I couldn't like I couldn't come up with any things I was listening to you guys. Oh, I know, I know, Okay, I know. Okay, So this is like a little bit random, But like I did mention that I've been trying to cook again for myself and I've been really actually trying to get into cooking, and I used my tegine. Do you guys know what this is, like, yes, yes, yes, it's like a Mediterranean like clay pot. I think mine's actually porcelain and the company that mine is a mel Henry, I believe is it's kind of fancy. But I made a Moroccan chicken last week and it was so good. I don't know what it was about. The It's like this funky shaped pot that like you can put on the stuff toop or you can put in your oven, but it has like this the lid is like a dome, and I think what it does is it traps the heat and circulates it, but it also traps moisture. So the chicken came out like really really good. And now I'm actually like it's I've had this for thing for three years. It moved with me twice and I finally was like, I'm just going to use this thing, and I did and I loved it. So do you guys put a link in your show notes to your loves of the week. Laura definitely can. Okay, yeah, I'll send it to you because you guys know people might be interested in it, and I'll send the recipe to it was so good, sounds good. It made my week cool. Oh, yeah, we can link the recipe. Everyone would want the recipe cool and you don't need the pot to make the recipe, by the way, you can make it with a skillet with a lid. But I just thought the tegine looks really cool and it's fun. We probably have a lot of people who have one of those, like sitting on cupboards, right, I know, looking for to break out the t What am I going to do with this thing now? You know? You know? All right, well, Megan, thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks guys, This was super fun and really keeping up with you guys, and weking on and I will definitely diving back into podcasts. You guys, I've already subscribed, but it'll be like hi on my listen list. So yeah, yay, awesome. Okay, this week we have a question and from Confused in Colorado. I love that people are starting to put things like that. It's like we're a you know what bagony at columns. We highly encourage that. Sleepless in Seattle, Yes well. Misconfused is a first time mom of a fifteen month old and an attorney in her fifth year. She had actually recently moved from government to corporate practice, where she has eminently reasonable hours, especially for a lawyer, and no travel. She is the primary parent for the limited logistics of a family with one toddler, drop off, pickup, music classes, and doctor's appointments. Her husband travels extensively, usually one to three weeks out of each month. Three weeks out of a month is pretty extensive and oft and over weekends because he goes to Asia. In general, things are working well and the flexibility he has when he is home is a great asset, but they struggle managing family communications while he's gone. Sometimes I feel like items I want to flag and disposition. I think she means lawyer to right word. I don't know. Yeah, that's a lawyer's speak. I only speak doctor speak, Okay. An invitation I want to accept and put on the count, for example, or making travel arrangements for an upcoming trip are a welcome an unwelcome intrusion that makes it hard to plan ahead for times when he's home, which I get her wanting to make the most of since he's away so much. By contrast, he likes to video chat extensively with our daughter while he's away. He's a wonderful and involved father and husband, but this can sometimes be disruptive for a toddler and for our routine. My question for you and Sarah is how and it says more for Laura because I don't really have it on the road spouse, But how do you develop a cadence when one of you is on the road. What are best practices for managing life when work takes one parent away and how much should a parents desire to be involved from a far factor into those decisions. Does this evolve with multiple kids as they age. Yeah, well, I mean I think it's a good question. People are listening to this know that we recorded an episode recently on families where both parties travel and sort of how you manage those STIs of that. But certainly there are families where one parent does and you're trying to say, well, how do you make that work so that parent can stay involved? And yet the person who's there is probably doing more of the logistics. And I mean, first half, I would say, if you are the primary parent who is there, you can set the guidelines because you're the one who has to live with him. I mean, that's the reality of it. And so I think what's happening here is that probably he's calling just as like their daughter's trying to go to bed, and that gets her wired up and like pushes her past bedtime, and you know, it makes it like there's a twelve hour time gap between a lot of the places people are doing business in Asia. So probably he wakes up in the morning and he's like gotten showered and he's you know, got half hour before needs to be at his first meeting. He's like, Okay, this would be a great time for me to call our daughter. Except it's not a great time for him to call the daughter because his wife's trying to get their daughter into bed, and so then she's up and wired and like you know, running around showing Daddy this and that, and then it's hard to get her back down. So you know, he needs to work around it. I mean, I think that's fair that if he's the one who's not there, she's the one covering it. He needs to respect their skull and there could be some compromise with that. But maybe it means he needs to start waking up a little bit earlier, you know, that maybe he can do that video call at like six am instead of seven thirty and so that he gets up a little bit early, does it before the shower, before breakfast. I suggested, you know, doing it so that he can entertain her while mom's making dinner or something that would actually be a useful function of these video chats, that she can hold the phone while while mom's making dinner and deal with that. I think partly what's happening with the emails that she feels like it's unwelcome intrusion is because he's not responding. But I think the reason he may not be responding to a lot of it is the same thing with when they're being sent and the twelve hour time delay, because if you think about it, she is maybe sending this, you know, after their daughter's in bed, she'll like think of stuff, or maybe you know, in the middle of the day. Well, if it's in the middle of the day, he's asleep, he is not seeing it. He's probably not processing his personal emails till the evening, which means that there's like a twenty four hour more delay between when she's sent him when he's reading it and responding. You know, same thing if she's sending them at night, you know, he's starting his workday, he's probably not going through it by the time he sends it at night. She's like, you know, in the middle of her night. It just doesn't The overlap is such that it appears that people aren't responsive, when in fact they are. It's just not a good time for them when it comes in. And so I think what you just have to do is maybe send the digest email. And then the assumption with the digest email is that you will get a response within X amount of time, right, like you can set whatever that is. But you know, if I send the didgust email at this you will respond to all items within twenty four hours, because that's what allows us to, you know, make a functioning schedules as a family that is in two separate parts of the world at this point. And there's a lot to be said for the digest email in general. I've needed to start sending digest emails to Sarah, sending them all the time. I realized, like, wa, wait, she's good with patients. She can't actually respond to this stuff like you know I do Inbox zero that you twelve separate emails during the day, and you're like trying to get down this zero every time. So, yeah, did you have anything to add to that. Well, it's so funny because well this we're going to get to her response. But before I remembered her response, I was like, you know, I think this is a great use of an online shared calendar because then you can just kind of stick stuff on there and he has a limited window to approve or not approve, and you can put a lot of details actually in like a Google calendar entry, like you can put a bunch of notes in there so that maybe he, you know, knows what you have planned for the upcoming weekend or a travel and then he can either accept it or not depending And as you know, this person actually replied to us and it turns out that they were doing something like that. So that is awesome. And I guess my other thought, what was my other thought is oh, just to mostly you know, I love that you're analyzing how well this is going early on, because I do think this is only going to become significantly more complicated with multiple kids and as the kids get older. And yes, some people may say, you know, you guys are talking about it in such a business like way, but again, the truth is, like if you manage the logistics, then they will not manage you or kind of mess you up later. Like it's really being proactive tends to pay off, and finding a mutually agreed upon solution is probably going to prevent fights they're unpleasant later on. So we greatly embrace the idea of like creating, you know, a specific an agreed upon system rather than just kind of if the status quo isn't working, just going with that. Yeah, so she said, she responded to us that instead of routinely sending three to six emails per day that week, she decided just send calendar invites and he could decline or write back if unhappy, but no dialogue needed on ninety percent of them where we agree. And I kind of like this too. I mean, you know, again, if he's not there, you don't actually have to ask him permission on all this stuff, you know, but it's kind of hard to put this, but you may as well make the schedule. If you're the parent who is primarily deciding these things, you can make the schedule and then he can say if he disapproves. But waiting for him to approve on some of this could just drive you insane. And so I think that that's probably the way to go. She talked on the still working on the best time for the FaceTime. She would really like him to call in the morning for their time, and so this is a question of trying to get him to find a break maybe later in the day after his meetings or before dinner with clients or whatever it is, to FaceTime with their daughter at that because unfortunately, Yeah, and my idea for that is maybe they could do a little bit of like make videos for each other so that it wasn't such a time sensitive or even like there's a voice app that a lot of people use, Voxer where they can like, you know, well, the fifteen month old probably isn't like, you know, talking in paragraphs yet, but he could tell her a whole little story and she could like speak something back in that way it's not so time sensitive and it might be kind of fun. Yeah, so that's a work in progress. But we love hearing back from people, and we write back on these emails and then people sometimes respond if they tried it and it worked or it didn't, And that's always great to know it too, because these things are always evolving. Well, anyway, this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking with Megan Francis, mostly the host of The Mom Hour, and we will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.