TURNOUT Episode 8: Georgia’s Secretary of State on why ‘integrity still matters’

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi. My name is Lindsay Louis. Cal Hope is here for you with three mental health resources. Go to cal Hope dot org to chat with a live person, call their warm line at one eight three three Hope. Hi. I'm Robert sex Reese, host of The Doctor Sex re Show, and every episode I listened to people talk about their sex and intimacy issues, and yes, I despise every minute of it. And she she made mistakes too, did she heal everyone at her wedding? But hell is real. We're all trapped here and there's nothing any of us can do about it. So join me. Won't you? Listen to The Doctor Sex re Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thursday, February ten, get off Super Bowl fifty six weekend with host Kegan Michael Key. Find out who will be named the eight most Valuable Player delivered by Pizza Hi, the Walter Bayden NFL Man of the Year presented by nation Wide and More Plus, but Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of Delivery with Uber Eats will be revealed. NFL Honors prisoned by Impizzilaw Thursday, the ninth Eastern eighth Central on ABC NFL network at ESPN plus all times lab except in the Pacific. Time's owner. Hi everyone, It's Katie Curic. And yet Georgia seems to be on everyone's mind these days, especially as it wraps up it's manual recount of nearly five million ballots. On Friday November, when the recount began, several news outlets had declared Joe Biden the state's winner. Now, if that still holds when the recount is complete, Joe Biden will be the first Democratic presidential candidate to win Georgia since If that weren't enough, control of the Senate now hinges on two critical Georgia runoff elections, which will happen in January. At the center of this national political storm is Georgia's Republican Secretary of State, Brad Rafinsburger. Good evening, Hi, Brad, and I had a chance to speak Monday evening, So listen and enjoy. What has it been like for you to be at the epicenter of national media attention? I mean, all eyes are on Georgia. Is that stressing you out? Brad? Oh? But when you look at two years ago, when Stacy Abrahams ran against Governor Kemp. He prevailed with the fifty three thousand margin, and so Georgia is more competitive. I thought, as a Republican it was going to go the other way, and right now it doesn't look like it's going to. I think some of that is us. President Biden had a very robust absolute ballot campaign and President Trump said, don't vote absentee, come out in vote the day of the election, and only less than a million people showed up on election day. If at one point three one point four million people would have shown up, he would have just one big time in Georgia. But why do you think he was so opposed to, in the midst of a national global pandemic, in fact, to encourage his supporters to vote by mail. In retrospect, wasn't that a massive mistake and miscalculation. Well, I think President Trump was looking at some of the other states where they just send out a live ballot and and how do you really identify those people? And that's what some people did. But in Georgia, we followed the law, and what that was is that you had your request an absodute ballot. So we have done that. We followed the state law. In fact, over this year because of some of the issues you could have with absolutely, we even strengthened the signature match. For the first time, we have Photo I D. If you used our online portal, then you required photo ID and you seamlessly to your driver's license, so we knew it was you that was applying for the absodute ballot. Were there are other things for people who may not be familiar with how things are done in Georgia. Were there are other things that you all put in place to assure the integrity of mail in ballots. Well, that was probably the number one thing, is making sure we had signature match with the paper application signature match you know, when the ballot came back, and then with online portal. But then we also made it more user friendly. From that standpoint, if you had an absolute ballot, we had an app called Ballot Tracks, so you can see where your ballot was in the process. And then we understood that way times were one of the biggest issues, and we wanted to keep all options open sixteen days of early voting, day of election, and so we helped work on making sure you can securely and safely move through those lines during election day, and we did that. We had an average weight time on election day have two minutes. You know, during the lead up to the election, a lot of people were concerned of people. Democrats were concerned that as a Republican Secretary of State, you know, they were on the lookout for any involvement in voter suppression. Now you are kind of the target of your own party. Well, we're the referee, and what our job is to make sure we walk that line of integrity because I like integrity still matters um and it's up to the candidates to run their races. We have the laws in place, we enforced the laws. We want to make sure that we have secure voting. As soon as I became elected. As soon as office, we worked on passing a bill that outlawed ballot harvesting. That ballot harvesting to us, I don't think it's secure, it's wrong, and so we outlawed it. So we want to make sure that voters understood that. We also made sure as soon as I became Secretary of State that we can join ERIC, which is the Electronic Registration Information Center. It's it's multi state, about thirties plus states. Now I'm part of it. So if you live in Georgia moved to Texas, Texas, will let us know that you registered in Texas. What that does is allows us to begin the process of taking off the vota roles. We want to make sure our voter roles are clean. Let's talk about the hand recount and the audit that you have ordered. Can you explain the recount process for us? And if you expect this process to change the results in any significant way, Well, what we're doing is a risk lamenting audit, and state law requires us to do a minimum confidence level. That means we'd have to pull up one point five million ballots. If we did confidence level, that'd be two and a half many ballots. You start pulling that many ballots out of five million, randomly, be minds with us count all five million. So we decided to do that. But instead of scanning those through the machines again, we said, let's go ahead and can't count these by hand, because some of these people are questioning are these machines accurate? Did that QR codes somehow change something? So everyone is looking at these ballots. Who did you want for president? Do you want Trump? Biden or Joe Jorgenson either one and it goes in three piles and then you count them by hand. And that's what we've done to secure and make sure that you know exactly what it is. Now, do we have some changes well today and Floyd County, what we found in the part of the audit process, there's about ballots that were counted, but they were not uploaded properly at the county level. It was a poll worker mistake, not a machine mistake. But regardless that appears at a President Trump picked up about eight hundred votes, So now we'll add that to the total. But in some of these other counties, uh, it's not changed one vote at all, and so it's been very very close other than this kind of kind of poll worker air. But that's why you're do an audit. That's why people audit books that they're looking for any mistakes, because we want to give voters a percent confidence. We know half the people are not going to be placed with this result and then the other path are going to be a static. We get that, and I think I may be the one that's not happy with the respults, but we're gonna do that they have percent confidence and when will that audit be complete. We've tasked them to be done by because we have to certify these elections this election on. Then if it is within a half percent, the candidate that has gotten the lower total can say I would like a hundred percent recount that we'll grab up all those ballots and we'll run them through the scanners and we'll do the same thing again because that is their right and will follow state law. And as far as you can tell to this point, will it be within that percentage point? Well, it is right now within that half percentage point, So the losing candidate could ask for another total. We have five million ballots, it's a fifty vote delta, and so we'll be well within that margin. Okay. And do you expect the Trump campaign to ask for a full recount? Oh, that is their decision, but state law allows for it and the state, uh state will pay and fund that for all the counties to do that. Trump supporter and an attorney that I happen to know name when would has alleged in a federal lawsuit which was wild Friday, that absentee ballots signature review procedures violate the US Constitution. The lawsuit takes issue with the settlement this spring between you and the Democratic Party of Georgia which required election workers to consult with two of their peers before rejecting absentee ballots because of possible mismatched signatures, and the suit alleges that change needed approval from the Georgia General Assembly. While we're really getting into the weeds here, but can you give us your perspective on this lawsuit. It's provolist, it's not going to go anywhere because in the end of the day, what were we kept signature match. And it really is if you did not think it matched, then you could have another set of eyes look at it. But if the other ice set of I say it doesn't match, it doesn't match, and then you can have the opportunity to come down and cure your ballot. And and then you can say, no, my signatures change because I broke my arm, whatever reason that is. But you have signature cure and so, uh, it's really not changing anything. And we kept signature match. You have to have signature match when you do your application of paper application application, and you also do signature match when you send the ballots in. So it's really there'll be three ballots on our three signatures on file, the original you've registered, then the application, and then with the ballot, and so you look at all three, line them up and see is this the same person? So you think Lynnwood is barking up the wrong tree. I don't know what tree is barking up, but I'm sure he's just daring a good lawyer's feed for, you know, following a frivolous lawsuit. But it's not gonna go anywhere. That dog won't hunt. Yes, Dan rather often said. Senators left Ler and Perdue, who are both candidates in the Senate runoff, released a statement accusing you of having failed the people of Georgia and asking you to step down and meet at least. What was your response to that, Well, I told him I'm not going anywhere. And all I would really tell them is you boast there in competitive races, and you best get at it and quit worrying about, you know, this election, because you've got a big runoff election, and as a Republican, you know, I want to see our Republicans prevailed. At the end of the day, I'm gonna walk that line of integrity and they're gonna win. If they win honestly, and everyone's gonna know that they want with an honest vote, and that's what I'm called to do as Secretary of State. We're gonna take a short break. We'll be right back. Hi. My name is Lindsay Louis. Cal Hope is here for you with free mental health resources. Go to cal hope dot org to chat with a live person all their warmline at one eight three three Hope. What's up? Guys have a shop aloud and I am Troy Millions and we are the host of the Earnier Leisure podcast where we break down business models and examine the latest trends in finance. We hold court and have exclusive interviews with some of the biggest names of business, sport and entertainment, from DJ Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross and Shaquille O'Neil. I mean our alumnilists expansive. Listen in as our guests reveal their business models, hardships and triumphs and their respective fields. The knowledge is in death and the questions are always delivered from your standpoint. We want to know what you want to know. We talked to the legends of business, sports and entertainment about how they got their start, and most importantly, how they make their money. Earn Your Leisia is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want to learn about the real estate game, unclears, how the stock market works? We got you. Interested in starting a truck and company or vending machine business? Not really sure about how taxes or credit work? We got it all covered. The Earnier Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnier Leisure on the Black Effect Podcast Network, I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What grows in the forest trees? Sure? No? What else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot Org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. Now back to my interview with Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raethinsburger. Don't you feel like secretary of state? If you're really overseeing election? Shouldn't it be a nonpartisan position? It sounds nutty? To me like and I you know, whether it's Democrat or Republican, it's automatically going to feel um, not necessarily fair and in partial if we've got a Republican running things or if we have a Democrat want running things. What what I mean it sounds nutty to me. Well, but we have a hundred and fifty nine counties, and I know that when we get some of our rural counties that voted eighty five percent for President Trump, that those elected election directors may actually then also may have voted for President Trump. But then you get into some of the urban areas and it goes the other way. They may have voted for Vice President Biden. But at the end of the day, they set aside their partisan you know, leanings, and they run the election. It's about process and that's really what it gets down to, is you run the process, You do the drill, and the results will be the results based on the candidate get his people out. And so as long as we have personal integrity, it works. Yeah, I guess, I mean, you know, I believe you want brings. Everyone has partisanship and biases, and so at the end of the day, we set that aside. And we follow what is the law say, what do the rules say? And that's what we do. What did Lindsey Graham say to you, Secretary of st Rappensburger, when he called you on Friday? I thought when he called, originally it was really to talk about two run offs we have for the U. S. Senate seats, since he's influential in that area. But he asked if the Ashleuty ballots can be matched back to the envelope. So I explained how it works in Georgia that the signature is matched when you make your ballot application, and then the signature has matched again when the when the ballot comes back, so there's two signature checks there. But once that happens, then the ballot is separated from the envelope and then you can't match them back. But then I felt that he implied that for us to audit the envelopes and throw out ballots of counties who had the highest frequency era of signatures, and I, you know, mentioned that that's not something we can do, and that's really where we left it. I told him I talked to my general counsel and would circle back, and there was no need to circle back. Because then President Trump put out his tweet about something along those lines, and it just appeared that they were already coordinating their campaign. And subsequent to that, I understand there's a lawsuit in Michigan really along those lines, and this attorney, Lynnwood has found a lawsuit. Uh, you know a about the Absolitute about process which you were going to defend. Did you feel the Republican Party, Lindsey Graham in particular, was exerting undue pressure on you and actually trying to find a way to toss legally cast ballots out of the system. I don't know. It wasn't undo because I said no. So at the end of the day, we are following our process. But the fact that he called you and asked you this, Brad, did you feel it was inappropriate? Yeah? I did, and that's why I didn't call him back. I talked to counsel uh, and we just kind of moved off. Fortunately, had a couple of my staff members on the call because I noticed. I understand everything that we do will be put under a Microsoft scope, And at the end of the day, no matter how this election falls, I want voters to have concent in the accuracy of the election, and as a Republican, I know I'm going to probably be disappointed that something is not going to happen during this audit, because as the numbers come in, it's just really substantiating that the vote was accurately counted on the election night. But that's how it appears right now. We had in Floyd County they never took out the memory stick in one of the machines used for early voting, and that added about votes, which gave President Trump eight hundred more. When you're when you're short fourteen thousand votes, it doesn't get you there. Maybe there's another county that also did something dumb and uh, and we'll we take them out to the woodshed later. But right now we're just working on our process of buttoning it up. But I don't think that will get them where they need to be. Senator Graham had a different recollection of your conversation. He said that if you found it threatening, you quote have a problem. What's your response? Uh, Well, Uh, I just haven't had a different impression. And I guess I just really want to make sure that I mind all my ps, all my cues so that we can run this election. You know right down, you know the center line, you know, with integrity, and so that both sides know this is how the results came out. I understand I've been saying this for six months, Katie, that half the people will be happy after people we said yes, the other half was very very sad and they didn't admit that. How did President Trump win? Well, now was going to be my side saying how did that happen? And I get that, But in Georgia, people won't be out of question results. There's spot and nine other states and all the secretaries have stayed over there going to run their elections. My job is Georgia and that's what I'm focusing on. So my George and have confidence. Senator Graham also insists that he called you on his own accord and it wasn't prompted by the Trump campaign. Do you believe him? Well, I'll take him at his word. Um, I know he's a Republican, and so am I and he maybe have been just concerned, and so who am I? I don't know what was in his mind and all that. That's that's just me guessing. I just didn't like to deal with facts. I'm an engineer and if I deal with facts in a secretary of State, that's gonna be a whole lot better. At the end of the day, when we talked to our voters and talked to both sides of the aisle, Democrats have called for an ethics investigation looking into this. Do you think they're justified? Well, that's Washington politics and I'm gonna tend to what we do here in Georgia. I love Georgia, and uh, this is where my home is and Secretary of State is where my focus is. We'll be back with Brad Raethlisberger right after this. Hi, my name is Lindsay Louis. Cal Hope is here for you with three mental health resources. Go to cal Hope dot org to chat with a live person all their warm line at one eight three three Hope. The NFL podcast network is your home for all things football. Do you love hearing analysis around the league with a touch of mirth, or maybe you enjoy breaking down X and os in the college scouting scene. Did you breathe, sleep, and eat fantasy football? Perhaps you love the funny headlines that emerge each week. What if you want in depth news coverage with reporters, or what if you want to know exactly how each team got its name while you're in luck Because the NFL Podcast Network has a show for everybody. Our best network has the NFL is best talent, bringing you right into the action of each There's always room to add more football into your podcast rotation, and our vast group of shows will surely keep you up to date with everything you need to know surrounding the National Football League. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After thirty years, it's time to return to the halls of West Beverly High and hang out at the peach pit on the podcast nine O two one o MG joined Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling for a rewatch of the hit series Beverly Hills nine O two one oh. From the very beginning, we get to tell the fans all of the behind the scenes stories to actually happen, so they know what happened on camera obviously, but we can tell them all the good stuff that happened off camera. Get all the juicy details of every episode that you've been wondering about for decades. As nine O two one oh super fan and radio host Sisson sits in with Jenny and Tory two reminisce, reflect and relive each moment from Brandon and Kelly's first kiss to shout. Donna Martin graduates, you have an amazing memory. You remember everything about the entire ten years that we filmed that show, and you remember absolutely nothing of the ten years that we filmed that show. Listen to nine O two one OMG on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You've been heralded as a nonpartisan leader throughout all of this. Knowing what you know now, Brad, when you think back to Brian Kemp's two thousand eighteen run for governor, should he have been running while serving as Secretary of State and overseeing the election process? Well, when I run for re election, I'm not going to resign for those few months as I run, so I'll still I'll be in office, and that has typically happened people throughout those charges. But I hope that what they'll see at the end of the day that I will not be putting my thumb on the scale. So when I run for re election, if I lose, I'll lose honestly, and I'll take my loss, you know, and I'll suck it up and I'll move on and if I win, and it'll be what it is. But my point is, should Brian Kemp have run for governor while simultaneously serving as Secretary of State and overseeing his own election? Doesn't that seem like a conflict of interest? It sounds like it is one, But there's you know, really the elections are run at the county level. It's a hundred county for running these elections. What they're doing is we we have oversight, but then they report those numbers up. You can't get in your Georgia is too big to get in your car and drive to all hundred counties and start stuffing ballots. So it was a fair, honest election, and Stacy Arams needs to get over She lost and she lost barely, and and that wasn't helpful then, and it wouldn't be helpful now for people to question what the results are actually are in Georgia. Having said that, you do credit her with bringing out voters and increasing turnout significantly in your state. She did two years ago. It's just that Governor Kemp turned out more this year. If you look at what happened her team and herself, they turned out voters. In fact, Senator Purdue had fourteen thousand, five hundred more votes in the metro region and President Trump did. And so there's a man going forward that Republicans need to have a message that resonates with more people throughout the entire state of Georgia and urban areas in particular. Yeah, and I think that bit by bit we can make inroads there. And I think that as we diversify and make our party really the party of achievement and opportunity, we can do that. I go back to Ronald Reagan days. He was my hero, and I think he had a great message. You have been called the most hated man and the Republican Party, and it's actually serious because you and your wife have have been receiving death threat Um. Are you frustrated that your party can't take the partisanship out of the process. I'm really disappointed that, uh, we have people, uh from our side of the aisle that would send my wife death threats. Uh. You know, you always think that we're if we're gonna do cops and robbers, you know, you know, or we're playing the Wild West show. Where the guys with the white cowboy hats and the other ones, you know, the other sides more with the black cowboy hats. Someone and Democrats to do the same with us, right verse. And when your own team, you know, you realize that you've got people desperados with the with the black hats, it's disappointing. I like, I thought we were above that, but obviously we're not. That's that's what is disappointing. We need to realize that the election results have been accurately counted. It's a hundred fifty nine counties and it really just shows you where we are as a as a state. The problem is when you live in your bubble of a Trump you know, district, you don't understand how it happens. But districts change over time, and that's why we need to make sure that we always, you know, build on our message and make sure that we're reaching out to voters before we go. It seems to me that one thing Americans probably agree on is that there probably need to be some reform, some some I know, it's state by state, and even if Georgia is going doing a good job, when you look at the big picture, Brad, what reforms would you institute to make make voting easier and and and more accessible for all Americans. I think for US Georgia already we have sixteen days of early voting, we have election day voting, and we have no excuse absolute voting. But I think that we really need to look at the guard rails for absolite so you don't have these questions, so you really can be certain. We added that portal with photo IP. It really gives people confidence you if you're using it, they're really checking that it is me. That's a good thing other people that know that you're using it. And then I think also being able to join what is callite talked about Eric, so when you move different states, we can update the voter roles with objective measures. When we just take people off without those objective measures, it seems very subjective, and that's what creates distrust. So we keep it more fact based, objective based. I think that's a good thing. I'm an engineer, so I think that way. I think at the end of the day, we need to get some more engineers as secretaries of state and less politicians. And what about like claims that dead people are voting or people are getting multiple ballots. Um. When you hear those anecdotally, I think it sometimes undermines trust in the system. Are there measures and guard rails, as you would say, in place that even if that happens, those votes are not necessarily counted. Well, when the Republicans had the State House for two years and Doug Colums did nothing the one thing he should have done because we've hit you know, headwinds with federal laws, but they don't let us update the voter roles ninety days out. But here's why it's so important. With seven point six million registered voters in Georgia and nationwide statistics say eleven percent move every year. That means that eight d Georgians are moving every year. Have to be moving within the state, within the county, but the other half to be moving to other states ninety days out. That's two people that have votd in ninety days. It's it's an awesome number. Like think, you know, we're so mobile, but if you can't update it, how do you keep up with your list that you could be off by up to a hundred thousand and a half of those are moved out of state, and so those are things that need to be addressed, that you have accurate roles so people aren't voting in two different states, and then also making sure we keep up with the death records and other situations. And that's why ERIC is is very objective. It's Democrat Republican states, so it's multi state. It was really headed up by fellow named David Becker. You should get him on sometimes he's with Center of Election Innovation and Research and he's done a really good job helping bring it both sides together to form ERIC because it's like Ronald Reagan said, trust but verify, and so sometimes there's not that trust, so we have to verify and I think that's a good thing. And ERIC again stands for Electronic Registration Information Center and there's a website called ERIC states dot org. Alright, well, Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Rathinsburger, thank you very very much for talking with us. Thanks really appreciate it. Good luck with everything, Brad. Thanks. Turnout is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Curric Media. The executive producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz. Supervising producers Lauren Hansen, Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pento. Editing by Derrick Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrick Clements. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and spe show thanks to my right hand woman Adriana Fasio. You can follow me all my election coverage at Katie Correct. Meanwhile, yes, I'm Katie Currect. Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see you next time. Meet Coco Villa Memory Plus with some of the most researched plant based nutrients, harnessing the natural compounds within the cocoa being to improve memory and brain function in just eight to twelve weeks. Try Cocoa Villa Memory Plus capsules. Order today at Coco Villa dot com. That's c O c O A v I A dot com and use coupon code c c V twenty to get off your order. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent disease. What girls in the fourt Our imagination and our family bonds, The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and discover the forest dot org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. Look for your children's eyes and you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.