Andy McCullough on Clayton Kershaw becoming Mr. 3000, Legacy talk

00:00:00
Speaker 1: When he was thinking about whether to retire after the twenty twenty three season, he was like, I don't care about three thousand strikeouts, even though he knew exactly how many he needed to get to three thousand, you know, it was like he's like, I'm not coming back for that.

00:00:16
Speaker 2: Hey, we're back with Andy McCullough, who writes for The Athletic and aside from Clayton Kershaw and everyone that's been a part of what he was able to accomplish. Today is also Andy McCullough day, because he wrote a book called The Last of his Kind. He put poured hours and hours of his life into highlighting moments like this. It's a biography of Clayton Kershaw. So this is the expert to talk about the topic. Andy Gray, to have you on, of course, book available everywhere, but tell us what last night meant to you in terms of covering Clayton for this time period.

00:00:49
Speaker 3: Look at that.

00:00:49
Speaker 2: You can even scan it as you're doing.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: WHOA, that's great. Yeah, I enjoyed Kratz's reaction. I also did not know my birthday is next week though, so you know, feel free to yeah, send me through something.

00:01:00
Speaker 3: And for me personally, like, you know, it's.

00:01:04
Speaker 1: It's a weird process writing a biography about someone. I think you spend a lot of time thinking about them and trying and talking to them and talking to people about them and trying your best to kind of explain things in a way that gets the person's perspective but also you know, the perspective the people around them, and then you know, kind of put them into the historical context, you know, within baseball. And you know, for me at this point, like I was just kind of watching as a person who enjoys watching baseball.

00:01:36
Speaker 3: You know, I wasn't writing about it.

00:01:38
Speaker 1: I've I've kind of written what I want to write, you know about Kershaw at this.

00:01:42
Speaker 3: Point, you know, so I was just kind of enjoying it.

00:01:45
Speaker 1: As a as a spectator. It was a really cool night in Los Angeles. It seemed like, you know, it was awesome for him obviously, it was you know, his family, all the kids were there with you know, his wife Ellen, and the reaction from Dodger fans was really really cool to see. So yeah, fun.

00:02:00
Speaker 4: Night, Andy. I hope this get your book sales up. Because we chatted in New York and we had a long talk in New York and the dugout and then cursh came over and we talked with him for a long time. We talked about multiple things. But what I want to know is, how did you get to be such a tight confidant?

00:02:17
Speaker 5: I guess of kurse because you know, he he's not He doesn't open up to a lot of people.

00:02:22
Speaker 4: Right from what little I've been around him, he's kind of and it's not a bad thing. He's a great guy when we talked to him, right, But how did you get to be the one to biographize him?

00:02:33
Speaker 5: Is that the right word to write this?

00:02:35
Speaker 6: Yeah?

00:02:35
Speaker 5: Biography? How was he?

00:02:37
Speaker 3: Why did he pick you?

00:02:38
Speaker 6: Well?

00:02:38
Speaker 7: Mostly because Tim Brown moved to North Carolina.

00:02:41
Speaker 3: I think it was no longer living in Los Angeles.

00:02:44
Speaker 1: Look, I mean I think I think that I don't proclaim to be like it's nice for you to say, I guess, you know, confidant or whatever, but like I just looked at it as like I covered him for you know, a decent stretch of time when I was at the Los Angeles Times. I've continued to write about him while I was at the Athletic. I've always you know, tried.

00:03:01
Speaker 3: To be fair.

00:03:02
Speaker 1: I've always you know, when I was covering the team for The Times, I viewed my primary mission as like trying to explain Kershaw to the readers because he was such an historically important you know, character and person and you know the history of the franchise. And I've you know, like he didn't really pick me for it. It was my idea to write it. And I think that he you know, he was very very gracious with his time, but he was also you know, kind of allowed me to like, you know, spend a lot of time with him, spend a lot of time, you know, with his family. You know, didn't ask to like read what was going to be in the book. He insists he still has not read it. You know, didn't ask for like money for it. It was you know, so it really was like kind of an ideal subject by you know, writer relationship, and so I'm very grateful for that. And I don't, you know, I kind of look at it as like he understood that he has had a career that someone was going to write a book about someday, and so when I approached him with it, he kind of looked at it as you know, well, you know, Andy seems like a fair guy, and you know he'll he'll do an okay job with it, and he's been very gracious about the whole thing.

00:04:14
Speaker 6: What do you think this number three thousand meant to not just Clayton, but Owen two and just his entire family as a family man that he is.

00:04:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny like in doing the book, you know, most of the reporting was done like two years ago or so, you know, in like twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, And when he was thinking about whether to retire after the twenty twenty three season, he was like, I don't care about three thousand strikeouts, even though he knew exactly how many he needed to get to three thousand. You know, it was like he's like, I'm not coming back for that. But I think that as he got closer to it, henowed he sort of was able to admit how important it would be to just kind of add that final capstone. And you know for the kids too, like they're in an age, especially you know, as two oldest you know, Cali in char like they they're actually like able to experience this, you know, they can actually sort of remember this stuff. It's not just going to be sort of like images in their you know mind that as they move forward and they can be more active participants. And so I think that part of the reason that he's wanted to keep going is because you know, he wants his kids to be able to, you know, just sort of be part of this more you know, actively than they had been when they were you know, toddlers. And so yeah, you could just see, you know, in all the shots of them at the ballpark last night, you know, in the clubhouse afterwards.

00:05:31
Speaker 3: You know, what a special moment it was for all of them.

00:05:34
Speaker 4: That's an amazing moment. What twentieth guy to get three thousand strikeouts. There's a couple of things that I noticed. One, Will Venable came out and was arguing the pitch. If you notice the video from the side, you can see Will Venable comes out and argues, Listen, dude, that's just three thousand strikeout right, Like, you can't argue that.

00:05:50
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm sorry, I mean it was in the.

00:05:52
Speaker 3: Strike it was close, it was close.

00:05:54
Speaker 4: We didn't catch it the best, but whatever, there's three thousand strikeout, Like, you're not you're not digging that way. And then second of all, it came right after Max's injury, which sucks, you know, so he had to kind of get back up after that whole long thing.

00:06:07
Speaker 5: And then the last thing for.

00:06:08
Speaker 4: Me is what would it have meant if they wouldn't have come back and won this game? Right, Yes, it would have been unbelievable he got the three thousand, But then for the Dodgers to come back and win the game the way they did it had it been even greater for Clayton.

00:06:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes it more of a storybook night, and it makes it easier for him to just kind of accept all the adulation that you know, he rightfully deserves for the achievement. I think it would have been a little bit more challenging to do that, you know, in a loss, but you know, at the end of the day, like losing a sort of random game in July. I think that he's gotten to the point where he understands that, you know, Like I think part of in the conversations I've.

00:06:49
Speaker 3: Had with him, you know, this year and.

00:06:52
Speaker 1: Late last year, like he really is trying his best to just enjoy this process, to enjoy being in the big leagues. He knows his time is running short, and I think that one of the problems.

00:07:04
Speaker 3: For players are who are that good and.

00:07:07
Speaker 1: Put and hold themselves to that standard and you know, accept nothing less than, you know, sort of everything from themselves.

00:07:15
Speaker 7: Is that it's hard to enjoy it.

00:07:16
Speaker 1: It's hard to enjoy the ride, you know, because the standards are so high, and so you're so relentlessly pressuring yourself. And I think that he is trying to maintain that standard while also acknowledging, like you know, to just soak it all in and to really appreciate everything he's been able to accomplish.

00:07:32
Speaker 2: Building a hair growth routine is easy only if you go with nutrifol. Why is that Todd Father?

00:07:39
Speaker 8: Nutrifoile? You think about hair? For me, sometimes the hair gets thinning. This thing will thicken your hair up as much as you need. You think about going to weddings, you're going to the beach, you're just hanging out with friends, and you want to take photos. You want your hair to look good, and this is the best possibility for it.

00:07:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thinning hair is different for men and women. So at one size fits all approach to hair growth, that's not it, Okay. They have multiple formulas for men and for women that are tailored to fit different stages of life. Okay, so go check out neutrifol. Building a hair growth routine can be easy and you order online. There's no prescription needed as well, free shipping, automated deliveries, and for a limited time, neutrifoil is offering the FTFM ten bucks off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrifol dot com and enter the promo code foul fo ul. Find out why neutrifoil is the best selling hair growth supplement brand at nutrifol dot com spelled n U t r A f o l dot com promo code foul.

00:08:34
Speaker 6: We know this is historic, like AJ said twentieth fourth lefty to ever do it? How about looking forward to the future? Is there are there people? Are there guys right now that you're like, oh yeah, they could get there because we've seen Clayton Kershall was the best historically, was the best pitcher for the first six years of his career when he finally made it to free agency and was paid that way. Looking forward, we can easily look back, But looking forward, is this a number that we're just not going to see for a long time.

00:09:09
Speaker 7: Kratzy, Are you suggesting he's the last.

00:09:11
Speaker 3: Of his kind?

00:09:13
Speaker 6: Did you write about it in the book, I'll look.

00:09:14
Speaker 3: Something like that.

00:09:15
Speaker 1: No, But I mean I think, like if you had asked me this two years ago, I would have said, I think Garrett Cole is going to get there, you know, but given just the health issues he's had, you know, missing a good chunk of last year and then undergoing Tommy John surgery, you know, I think it's going to be a really long time before someone gets to three thousand. And that's even in an arrow where strikeouts are are way more prevalent, and it's just yeah, part of you know, what I was trying to capture with this book is that, you know, Kershaw, along with you know, Justin Verlander and Max Schurzer, really are kind of the three last guys who really have that sort of connection to what it meant to be a number one pitcher in the same way that Tom sever and you know, Bob Gibson and Pedro Martinez and all those guys, you know that they were held to the.

00:10:03
Speaker 3: Same sort of standard.

00:10:04
Speaker 1: The game has changed so much so I mean, someone probably will get the three thousand strikeouts again.

00:10:10
Speaker 3: You know, but it's going to be a while for sure.

00:10:15
Speaker 5: Andy is Kirsha loved as much as he should be.

00:10:19
Speaker 4: I think people look at the postseason stuff in the past and say, oh, well, he couldn't do it in the postseas.

00:10:24
Speaker 5: He's got two rings. He's got two rings.

00:10:26
Speaker 4: And there are some moments where he has absolutely dominated in the postseason. But there's the Cardinals thing where they trolled it earlier in the year and that whole thing that they did. But is he appreciated as much as he should be, even if you did write a book about how great he is.

00:10:42
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly in Los Angeles, right Like, I think you can see the way that Dodgers fans have reacted to him, you know, not just last night, but even like after the parade.

00:10:52
Speaker 3: You know, in twenty twenty four, Kershar did not play a major role.

00:10:55
Speaker 1: You know, in the twenty twenty four season, he was injured for the postseason, and he gets one of the biggest pops you know, for his speech after you know, after they come back to Dodger Stadium. So I think in LA, yeah, he's probably properly appeached, appreciated.

00:11:08
Speaker 7: And I think among you know, like baseball.

00:11:11
Speaker 1: Heads, you know, real steam heads, people who like love the history of the game. There's a there's a proper you know, sort of recognition of what he's achieved. You know, he really is the best pitcher ever in terms of run prevention of like not letting guys score. There's never been a better pitcher at that. But you know, like around the sport, look, I mean, we live in a hater based culture and so like, of course, you know, Padres fans are gonna make fun of what happened in the postseason and Cardinals fans. I mean that's just like that's modern sports, and that's okay, that's kind of what powers the whole you know, sort of industry besides gambling, and so yeah, like it's that just kind of.

00:11:49
Speaker 3: Is what it is. I think in LA though, like he is certainly beloved.

00:11:55
Speaker 6: Any update on Max Munsey his schedule for his MRI this morning, Do you have any update?

00:12:02
Speaker 1: No, I mean, you know, we'll see. I suspect there will obviously be an il stint, you know, just a.

00:12:07
Speaker 3: Matter of how serious the injury is.

00:12:09
Speaker 6: Though, okay, so more broader when we look back at like other teams, like I look back at I think of like Cleveland back in the day, it was like whoa that all those guys were in that lineup. It's like this many Hall of Famers this Dodgers team. It made me think of it because Freddy Freeman. Now, I think he's third in the Live Ball Era in walkoffs from his walk off last night, I think he's got seventeen. How many Hall of Famers do you see guaranteed in on this team?

00:12:39
Speaker 1: Obviously, yeah, Kershaw, Freeman, bets Otani.

00:12:47
Speaker 3: Am I missing anyone obvious.

00:12:49
Speaker 6: There that's currently on the team?

00:12:52
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:12:53
Speaker 1: No, I mean yeah, those, but that's you know, if you have three at the top of your lineup that's generally pretty good, that usually that usually plays well. And also to like, I think that Freddy Freeman is like it kind of is like a historically underappreciated great player. Like I feel like every time I'm asked about him, I just think that I think he's just like the best hitter in the world, even if the stats, you know, don't say it, but like in terms of just a sense of the moment and you know, sort of the ability to rise to the occasion, like he really is as good as it.

00:13:26
Speaker 4: Gets play with him, Andy, play with him for a year and then tell me he's underappreciated because I got to play with Freddy for two.

00:13:32
Speaker 5: Years and sorry, twenty fifteen Player of the Year over Freddy. So yeah, you know, probably that probably cost him in fansized, But.

00:13:41
Speaker 4: No, if you play with Freddy and you see what this guy does every day and he wants to play every day, that's the key for me. He wanted to play one hundred and sixty two games every year, and that's so special to me. He goes through his ups and downs like every hitter. But if you need a big hit and you need a dude to get you a single right the game on the line, Freddy Freeman is tough to be.

00:14:00
Speaker 7: Yeah, I said, I think I've said this on the show.

00:14:02
Speaker 1: But like if if for some reason I was caught in some sort of hostage situation and there was a runner at second base with two outs and I was given one hitter to the needed to get a hit, you know, save my life, it would be Freddy Freeman.

00:14:13
Speaker 6: Certainly, I would really know.

00:14:16
Speaker 7: Why I would be.

00:14:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know why I would be in that situation, Like a lot of things would have had to have gone wrong.

00:14:21
Speaker 6: But theoretically, I would definitely want to know how any McCalla got in a hostage situation and how Freddy got him out by Freddie's like, who's this guy on the left side? Thank you, Freddy.

00:14:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm still Seeger on that one. I think, by the way, I don't know. I think I think that's out there, which is crazy the former Dodger. But yeah, those two probably.

00:14:46
Speaker 6: You're dying.

00:14:48
Speaker 5: And living. Scott you gone, Yeah, I'm gone. Corey Steger, I mean, it's a great try.

00:14:58
Speaker 1: If you're like he has he does have sort of like he does Jedi mind tricks where somehow they throw like a first stress ball.

00:15:07
Speaker 5: Like all the time.

00:15:08
Speaker 3: Boy, it's just like he has it.

00:15:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like he has like a homing beacon where he brings in a fastball and you're just like, how did why they do that?

00:15:15
Speaker 7: Did they not have scouting reports?

00:15:17
Speaker 6: They're like, there's no way swinging this time. It's only fifty five percent that he swings.

00:15:23
Speaker 2: We we did that the number of times for our postgame shows in twenty twenty three. We were like, yeah, I don't get it. What is everyone else seeing that we're not seeing that scout.

00:15:32
Speaker 7: Does some sort of mind trick.

00:15:33
Speaker 5: Yeah. Derek Lee, Hey, that was Derek Leeback.

00:15:36
Speaker 4: Derek Lee would have four bats and get four pitch four first pitch cheaters and get four hits, and you're like, why do they keep throwing them that?

00:15:44
Speaker 2: I don't get it. Andy, good talking you men. Appreciate the time. And one more little plug on the way out. Go check out the book as we showed you at the top. Give it a little skin Thanks.

00:15:54
Speaker 3: Andy, thanks for having me. It's fun.

00:15:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, Andy McCollough from The Athletic give him follow on twitch as well.

00:16:01
Speaker 5: Watch Venable Watchable right another dug out argument right here?

00:16:09
Speaker 2: Wait, Venable argued.

00:16:10
Speaker 5: When they went over whoever o Tani's shoulder?

00:16:13
Speaker 4: You can see Venable coming out of the out of the dugout to argue the strike three call.

00:16:17
Speaker 5: Like, dude, it's just three thousand strikeout, bro.

00:16:20
Speaker 6: I think Jim going to be a double switch. He was definitely switch.

00:16:25
Speaker 5: There's Nocher hitting it, like, wasn't Jim wol I think.

00:16:29
Speaker 4: Jim Wolf was the home plate onun bar Jim Wolves from l A brother Randy Wolf Like, trust me, Clayton wasn't if it was if it was anywhere, if the catcher caught it, it was strike three.

00:16:39
Speaker 6: Jim will I don't have a problem with that, like three.

00:16:47
Speaker 2: My thing is if this is, you know, September twenty eighth, and it's the thick of a playoff race with two teams that could decide the season. It's the White Sox against Clayton. I don't know what the box said.

00:17:03
Speaker 3: Was it in the zone?

00:17:05
Speaker 2: I mean it was, and I looked at the highlight. I didn't see it with the box, but it looked close enough.

00:17:09
Speaker 5: No, it's in the box. It dotted dotted.

00:17:11
Speaker 4: He was inside doing it dotted like the very other side of the strike zone.

00:17:15
Speaker 5: But again, dude, they're playing the White Sox.

00:17:18
Speaker 4: It's at home. Everyone knew that was his last hitter. They threw the guy out at third, They threw out Taylor at third, hurt Munsey's knee.

00:17:26
Speaker 5: Everyone knew. That's why the fans were going If you watch it, it was so cool. The fans were going crazy. They knew it was the sixth THNN.

00:17:31
Speaker 4: He got through six, right, grinded through six to get to this point.

00:17:36
Speaker 6: He had twelve two strike counts and he got three strikeouts. Twelve of them. He just could not get the last one. It's like, it's like that dude that's sitting on four hundred and ninety nine homers, and you're just like.

00:17:51
Speaker 5: Is he swinging for it?

00:17:52
Speaker 6: Is he trying too hard to get that last strikeout?

00:17:56
Speaker 5: Is he trying?

00:17:57
Speaker 6: Like he just couldn't get it done? And then he did. Now he's forever immortalized three thousand k's.

00:18:05
Speaker 2: They might need him down the stretch, and really more so in the playoffs. So you want to get more swing and miss out of Clayton.

00:18:12
Speaker 5: And he gave us a nine hit. But this is not the same league at all.

00:18:15
Speaker 4: But I was on nineteen ninety nine hits for my career and we were in Atlanta and we had like a four game homestand and my family flew in for it, and I was trying so and I couldn't even hit the ball because I was I just wanted to get that hit. So they were there, and then we went on the road in Boston and I got it like my first a bat, and there was nobody there and like the Red Sox didn't even acknowledge it, and it was kind of like, ah, it.

00:18:38
Speaker 5: Was like such a buzzkill.

00:18:40
Speaker 4: I mean, it was cool, you know, but it was such a buzzkill because again it's not the same level of thing. But for to get to that, I wanted, you know, my family was there and I wanted to be able to celebrate. It didn't happen.