AvTalk Episode 372: Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should

AVT 372 Transcript
EPISODE 372
[0:00:08] IP: Hello, and welcome to episode 372 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik. Here as
sometimes with –
[0:00:16] GL: Gabe Lee. Right here for what? It's my once a year appearance.
[0:00:20] IP: You're bi-yearly, semi-yearly appearance.
[0:00:24] GL: Yeah, I guess I manage twice a year.
[0:00:25] IP: Yeah. Although you're going to be on the podcast coming up again real soon in a
couple weeks.
[0:00:30] GL: Oh, yeah. It's going to be a busy summer for me.
[0:00:32] IP: It's going to be for you and, yeah, for all of us. A very quick reappearance.
However, it'll be a very slow event.
[0:00:40] GL: Right. Very slow flight.
[0:00:41] IP: Don't want to give too much away.
[0:00:41] GL: No.
[0:00:42] IP: We'll be bouncing around. While we're going to be doing that in the US, ILA Berlin
is taking place that same week and it's shaping up to be a pretty great air show and a fantastic
place to see. Let's see, this year, 750 exhibitors from 37 countries between the 10th and 14th of
June in Berlin. Lufthansa Group is going to have their A320Neo in the special 100th anniversary
livery. The A350 is supposed to be part of the flying display. You'll be able to go inside an A380.
And they're going to have the Airbus Racer highspeed demonstrator. So, that'll be pretty cool.
And let's see. What else? Ooh, the Leonardo AW249 will be shown for the first time at a
tradeshow flying display. That'll be really cool. And they also have a drone cage.
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[0:01:39] GL: I also heard that the Beluga is going to be there.
[0:01:42] IP: Ooh. So you know what we should do? We should send our colleague, Sophia,
who's Beluga obsessed.
[0:01:46] GL: Exactly. It would be wrong not to at this point.
[0:01:49] IP: I think we'll do that. She'll be there for the trade days. And if you want to chat with
Sophia about Rlightradar24 or just the Airbus Beluga in general, because she will be more than
happy to do that. You can get 10% off the trade visitor tickets using code ILA26_flightradar. So
all one word on the Flightradar. No 24 on that. Do that. Go to Berlin, or be in Berlin. Get a trade
visitor ticket, and go check that out. Sophia will be there for us this year. And we've already
decided that we're going next year.
[0:02:28] GL: Absolutely. It sounds like it's super fun event, and I'm really a little bit sad to miss
it. Also, we should mention that Sophia will probably have keychains.
[0:02:35] IP: Oh, that's true. So, if you've been angling for a Flightradar 24 key tag for a long
time now and you're anywhere near Berlin, that's what you should be doing June 10th through
the 14th. We'll put a link in the show notes for that.
And on to the rest of the show. We've had a good week here in Stockholm. Jason is in
Switzerland doing trains, and fairies, and cable cars, and all sorts of things.
[0:03:02] GL: But nothing that flies.
[0:03:03] IP: He was above a glider in the mountains, which was pretty cool, but nothing – well,
I mean, he flew to Zurich. I guess that counts. He'll be back next week to tell us all about his
deal on Air Serbia, of all places. From JFK to Zurich via Belgrade. That'll be interesting. But
we're here in Stockholm this week. We've got the annual spring meetup of the entire
Flightradar24 team. We are sitting in the office before the team redescends on the office for an
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evening of revelry. So, we should speak quickly before they all show up and ruin the audio of
the podcast. But that will be okay.
[0:03:44] GL: Yeah, we got to get this done.
[0:03:46] IP: Let's talk about what's actually happened this week in the aviation world. And then
we'll get into what we've been doing this week, because we had a lot of fun in the air yesterday.
And then we'll talk about what you've been up to and what you might be up to soon. Because
there's some exciting stuff coming up that I think is going to be super interesting to people.
Let's talk about something that happened last week that we got a lot of comments on social
media. And a bunch of people wrote in and said, "You're going to talk about this, right?" Yes, we
are going to talk about it. A popular YouTuber posted the idea of how to recreate cockpit voice
recorder audio by reverse engineering the spectral analysis that the NTSB includes in their
public docket of an accident investigation.
They held the investigative hearing. Two days of investigative hearings for the UPS MD-11
crash. Then, as part of the docket that was released for those investigative hearings, they
included the spectral analysis of the audio of the cockpit's voice recorder. As we've talked about
before, the cockpit voice recorder audio itself is by law never released by the NTSB. It is by law
prohibited to release the actual audio of the NTSB's in possession the cockpit voice recorder.
But this proposed technical idea, it's just a Reverse Fourier Transform. I mean, it's been around
since the 1800s, or the idea of it has been. This is not a new idea. But I'm not sure why this
particular person thought that it was a good idea to do this. Because as we know, if you propose
an idea to the internet, good or bad, the internet will do it.
[0:05:46] GL: Absolutely.
[0:05:47] IP: And so a couple folks did and posted what is recreated audio of the final moments
of this crew's life and posted it on the internet for all to hear. And the NTSB found out that this
happened and took down the docket system to figure out what to do next. And so they've slowly
been replacing the dockets to either not include the spectral analysis or somehow degrade that
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piece of the docket so as not to provide anyone with the ability to further go back and recreate
audio.
In the show notes, I have a very strongly worded statement that we're family-friendly podcast.
I'm not going to read verbatim, but I'm just apoplectic about how somebody thought this was a
good idea to say, "Oh, you know, you could. There's no need." This does not help the
investigation at all. It does not help this person's stated goal of helping other people understand
aviation accident investigations better. It certainly doesn't help the family of the victims of this
crash. That not only includes the three crew members who are on the plane, but 11 other people
on the ground. I'm throwing up my hands here. I don't understand how anyone could think this
was a good idea.
[0:07:05] GL: Same.
[0:07:07] IP: Hopefully, some folks have learned their lesson about introducing things onto the
internet just because it's an interesting technical exercise. What I keep coming back to is
Malcolm from Jurassic Park, where you were so busy seeing if you could, you didn't stop to
think if it was a good idea or not.
[0:07:26] GL: Exactly.
[0:07:27] IP: And I feel like that's the trouble that we've gotten ourselves into now.
[0:07:30] GL: Yeah. Stopping to think is not a very internet-friendly theme. Is it?
[0:07:33] IP: That's a fair assessment, I think, of one of the problems we've been addressing
today in multiple ways, and maybe bemoaning that just a little bit. But it's the sandbox in which
we play. So, I guess just be better than that, and hope that people follow our lead. Oh, boy.
Okay, moving on. We have a preliminary report on the investigation into what was just an
absolutely bizarre video to watch. I think I shared the video with you when it happened, or we
we talked about it briefly. Watching this China Eastern A350 smash into the jet bridge, full
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reverse thrust, smash into the jet bridge again, and then reverse thrust again, and then smash
in for a third time.
This is actually coming from the French BEA providing information based on the Chinese CAAC
investigation. This was the Chinese Eastern Airlines A350-900 in Shanghai. They're now saying
that a complete failure of all of the brakes on the A350 were what led to the initial collision and
then the crew's use of reverse thrust. This is a confirmation of what we talked about a few
weeks ago when some information was shared via someone got a hold of the China Eastern
maintenance logs that showed that there had been a full break failure. They have a bit more
information now.
The Chinese analysis says that after takeoff, the crew received an inertial reference system
fault. While carrying out the procedures to turn off that system, there were fault messages
appearing related to the brake system, including autobrake, the accumulator of the green and
red hydraulic circuits.
The aircraft was able to land safely, thankfully. But as the aircraft got off the runway, they started
receiving additional faults for breaking on all of the wheels. And then the total brake failure
occurred while the aircraft was taxing on the stand. The investigation will continue deeply to
figure out how that it should not be possible for all of the brake systems to fail on the A350
simultaneously. So something went very, very wrong.
[0:09:57] GL: And in theory, they had some braking to get off the runway.
[0:10:00] IP: Exactly. They were able to decelerate off the runway and turn off the runway, but
they lost all hydraulic braking of all kinds by the time they got to the jet bridge.
[0:10:10] GL: Fascinating.
[0:10:10] IP: So I guess better that that happened than to have no braking trying to break on the
runway. But that begs the question. And hopefully this will be answered in the either full
preliminary report or the final report is how much of getting off the runway was due to the use of
reverse thrust versus – because normally, reverse thrust is kind of an afterthought to how
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aircraft get off the runway. Aircraft are designed and certified to have no reverse thrust and still
be able to safely stop.
[0:10:41] GL: And in many cases, preferable not to use reverse thrust if needed.
[0:10:44] IP: Right. Exactly. And so this is an interesting – if they hadn't used reverse thrust,
what would have happened when they were landing? And how much of it was due to the
reverse thrust? Because then, obviously, they didn't have any brakes when they crashed into
the jet bridge. I think that'll be an interesting follow-up to see what happens there.
[0:11:02] GL: Yeah.
[0:11:03] IP: Let's talk about less destructive, but still not great news for the A350, because this
is something that we've been excited about for a while because we're obviously trying to be a
part of the launch of this whenever it eventually happens. The A350-1000ULRs for Qantas have
once again been delayed. Airbus is saying due to supply Air Qantas. And Airbus are saying due
to supply chain issues again. First deliveries are now set for early 2027. They were scheduled
for later this year.
One of the things that we will get to know sooner rather than later next month in June is the
initial routes for when they're finally delivered. It sounds like they'll be flying between Australia
and New Zealand to start as they get familiar with the roots and the aircraft and proof
familiarization. Because remember, these will be bespoke cabins that have all sorts of different
things that you might not expect.
[0:12:01] GL: Right. Primarily, this will be kind of cabin crew training.
[0:12:03] IP: Yeah, exactly. Cabin crew training. The A350 simulator training is up in full swing in
Sydney. And pilot crews are getting up to speed. But this will be more in situ cabin crew training,
obviously pilot currency and all that good fun stuff before they launch. What we don't know yet is
whether they'll go to New York or London first as far as the actual Project Sunrise fights.
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The more I think about Project Sunrise, the less I'm excited about it. And maybe this is just me
getting older. I'm not sure I want to be sitting anywhere between 19 and 22 hours. First class,
business-class, laying on duct tape to the wing, whatever. I'm not sure I want that.
[0:12:50] GL: It is a very long time. I've never actually done that length of flight or even really
close to it. I mean, 17 hours recently I did. That was my longest inflight ever.
[0:12:59] IP: I mean, it could be another – on the longest day, it could be another five hours.
That's another long flight.
[0:13:08] GL: Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, I still want to do it.
[0:13:10] IP: Don't get me wrong. I still want to do it.
[0:13:13] GL: I feel you though, completely.
[0:13:14] IP: I want to do it less. Maybe that's just me being a commercially old man. I don't
know. But I feel like we can maybe set our sights on this for 2027 now. I hope.
[0:13:23] GL: Yeah.
[0:13:25] IP: Let's talk about some shorter flights that we did this week. Yesterday, we spent
time with an amazing group of people at the Swedish Flying Veterans Association. These are
the folks that operate the historic Dc-3 based in Sweden, Daisy. They operate all sorts of
Swedish Saab fighter jets that we did not get to fly, which fine, whatever, be that way.
But we did get to fly in the SK16, which our US audience will know as the Texan, the T-6 Texan.
Well, we didn't personally. But there was also the SK50, the Safir, which was available to fly in –
oh, and the Chipmunk, which our colleague Alex got to fly in. And because of some scheduling
snafus earlier in the day, he didn't get to fly in the chipmunk until much later in the day, which
turned out to be great for him because he's the only one who got to do some aerobatics.
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[0:14:26] GL: Yeah, that looked really incredible and sounded really incredible. I mean, yeah,
I'm very jealous.
[0:14:30] IP: That was a lot of fun. By the time the podcast comes out on Friday, I don't think
we'll have a full video done on the experience yet. Look forward for that next week on our
YouTube channel, which Gabe is hard to work on. We'll talk a little bit more about that in just a
few moments, but we'll put some links. We'll put a blog post together of some of the best photos
and a little bit of the video from that. I think that'll be worthwhile. So, that'll be in the show notes.
But we got to fly on the Dc-3. And not only did we get to fly in the Dc-3. I was in the Dc-3 for this,
and you were in one of the SK16s in formation. I've flown in the T-6 before in formation way
back when it was team AeroShell. And that was a cool experience. But to be flying in formation
with two Texans in the Dc-3 was just absolutely incredible.
[0:15:21] GL: From my perspective as well. Seeing the Dc-3 like that so close and in the air.
And also, flying through quite a bit of thermals.
[0:15:27] IP: It was a bumpy ride for sure. There was a lot of – if you were standing on the Dc-3
during a flight, I mean, you really needed to have some shock absorbers in your legs going to
stay standing.
[0:15:37] GL: This was also my first time ever flying in an aircraft where you could open the
hatch.
[0:15:41] IP: Yeah, the canopy is able you just open it right up.
[0:15:45] GL: Open air. Just amazing. Great for getting shots also. Because the glass, not so
good.
[0:15:48] IP: Not so clean.
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[0:15:49] GL: I had to try not to lose my phone out the window while also maximizing the clarity
of the shot. That was a nice little exercise. And also, I couldn't hear anything. My headset didn't
work. And it was bumpy, and it was fantastic.
[0:16:01] IP: You had a suction mount action cam, GoPro or DJI, whatever. When I went up
later in the day, it broke. And I'll see if I have a picture of the floor well. But there's no floor.
There are two-foot rails for the back seat of the Texan. And you put your feet on those, because
it's a training aircraft. In the back seat, you can fly the aircraft. There's rudder pedals, you got a
whole instrument panel. And if the stick is inserted into the stick holder, for lack of a better term,
into the tandem flight controls, you can operate the aircraft wisely. They had removed that for
our flights.
But when we landed, the mount just collapsed into the aircraft. There's somebody somewhere
got either video or a photo of me feet up in the air reaching into basically the outer skin all the
way down there trying to grab the camera. My watch breaks and falls down. So, I'm reaching
down there and it was great. So, I hope that footage is good.
[0:17:03] GL: Yeah, I hope so, too.
[0:17:04] IP: Because if the footage isn't good, I'm going to feel really, really bad about that.
[0:17:08] GL: Yeah. Before we flew, when I did the SK16, Anders, the pilot, he said, "Can you
make sure not to have anything unsecured, like your phone or your cameras? Because if it falls
down there, the controls for the rudder and everything go through there, and we'll be delayed.
[0:17:21] IP: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. After, he's like, "You need to get down there and get that." I
was like, "Oh, no." And then after I get everything out, he goes, "Well, we got a grabby stick." I'm
like, "Oh, now he tells. I'm covered in grease." It was great.
[0:17:35] GL: Yeah. He also strapped me into a parachute and didn't really tell me what would
happen if I needed to use it.
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[0:17:41] IP: Yeah. What he told me when he strapped me in, he goes, "Okay, here's how you
do it." And if we need to get out of the aircraft, you just pull the harness off and then you go. And
he goes, "But we won't need to do that." I was like, "Okay, that's good to know. I'm glad that
we're not going to need to do any of this." That second flight was on, because then we were
flying in formation between the two SK16s. And that was bumpy because we did a low pass
through the airport. And that was a bumpy, bumpy. Because it was full through it. And that was, I
think, probably the most nervous. Because he did not communicate well that that's what we
were about to do, and then did it. And I was a little nervous as to what was about to happen. Not
like that anything bad would happen. I just didn't know what was about to happen. That was a
bit of a thing.
Stay tuned for all of the footage for this when it eventually comes out on the YouTube channel.
But the other thing that we did yesterday, we both flew the Convair 340 Metropolitan, and that
was an actual SAS. These were not full motion simulators, but real aircraft that had been sliced
behind the flight deck. And big screens and full thing. And they put all these together. And so we
got to fly the Convair 340, which was an entirely different kind of flying than I had ever done.
Real life simulator doesn't matter. Just my favorite part was the landing gear. The woman that
was directing us or captaining our experience, she was so passionate about the 340. It was
great.
[0:19:16] GL: Yeah. Kept telling us how she'd fallen in love with this airplane. Yeah.
[0:19:20] IP: It was absolutely fantastic. And super helpful, because she was doing a lot of the
work of making sure that I didn't crash into a mountain or anything like that. But the one thing,
the landing gear. You flip out this handle, because it folds flush against the center pedestal on
the first officer side. And so you pull out this handle. And then it's a real solid foot-long steel
aluminum bar that just "foonk". And it's just like you get purchase, and it just feels very official.
Like one of those old-school, like Frankenstein's monster electricity things.
[0:19:58] GL: I loved everything about that simulator. I wouldn't have expected that that would
be one of the highlights. Of all the simulators I've had the privilege of flying, it was sort of almost
the most fun. It was amazing. Yeah.
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[0:20:07] IP: I mean, and she was explaining, if you throttle up, this happens. So, you're going
to need to do this with the – and then when you throw back, she's like, you got to dive for the
runway. Do not flare until you are ready to land. Yeah.
[0:20:19] GL: Yeah. And keep the power up as you're nose diving. Very counterintuitive.
[0:20:22] IP: Yeah. What is that? And then it's all of a sudden, "Okay, power off. Flare now." And
you just kind of come in. It was fantastic. You got to do the DC-10 simulator.
[0:20:32] GL: Yep. I stuck around to do that one. That was cool. Funny enough, I thought I
would prefer the DC-10. The Convair was more exciting in a way. Also, the DC-10 was so
fascinating. But actually, I found it more difficult to fly in some way, actually. Maybe it was
because I got used to that funky way that the Convair operates, and then I was flying a jet,
which is a lot more – you can like lose track of altitude and speed much more quickly, for
example. But also very, very cool.
[0:20:57] IP: Yeah, that was entirely too much fun. And I'm really glad we got the experience.
And we say all this to say that if you make it to Sweden, you can actually do – we didn't do
anything that's not open to the public. You can come to Västerås and be at the airport and see
the once a week Ryanair flight, and also go fly these simulators and support this historic
aviation.
And not only that, it's a museum. And they have – oh, the Heron. This story is fantastic. I had no
idea that this was the last one in the world. They have the last flying Heron in the world. And
somebody from the US has just purchased it. And their plan is to make it airworthy again. So
this is the Havilland DH114. And it's a unique looking airplane. We'll put a picture. JetPhotos has
a couple of this particular one. And so we'll put a picture there.
It's one of those things where the flight deck and the cabin are not on the same level. But there's
no hump. It's just kind of a taller fuselage. And it's a four-engine prop plane. And it just looks
magnificent. They've cleaned it up. They're getting ready to fly it again. And then the new
owners are just going to take it from Sweden back to America. And we're going to try and be on
that flight.
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[0:22:20] GL: Yeah, whatever we can do. Whatever we can do.
[0:22:23] IP: We will push it to the end of the runway ourselves if we have to. That's fantastic.
Follow this space for more. We've mentioned the YouTube channel a couple times. We bring it
up from time to time in the podcast because there's a lot of fun stuff that you get to do that I am
in absolutely no way jealous of whatsoever.
Most recently, you were in the Caribbean with our colleague Sophia, who has just been
instrumental in getting us into a lot of the more crazy and fun things that we've done lately. So,
what can we look forward to on the channel besides the video of the Dc-3 in the next few
weeks?
[0:22:58] GL: Yeah, I mean, this shoot was one of the more jealousy-inducing shoots. I felt bad
actually a little bit telling people about what my next trip was going to be. Because, oh yeah,
we've just been invited by Winair, which is a major carrier based out of St. Martin to come out
there and just check out their whole operation. It's mostly Twin Otter flying to nearby islands.
Quick flights to really incredible places. And incredible on the aviation bucket list.
A couple of these experiences, they're doing them. Notably, St. Barts, which is an incredible
approach if you've ever seen it. We put it all over our Instagram, too. You can see some of the
sneak peeks of that there. And Saba, which is maybe lesser known, has the shortest
commercial runway in the world. Also, really lovely, beautiful island. Full of nice people. And
then, of course, St. Martin. Iconic always. Kind of a fascinating experience to see that in person
actually for a variety of reasons.
But yeah, Winair was amazing. They invited us out there and set everything up for us to sort of
check it out. They even sort of liaised with local tourism boards to help us get a sense of the
places as well. It wasn't just pure flying. It was a bit of exploring, too. Then we checked out their
ATR operation, which is a kind of a newer side of their operation and growing. They're trying to
serve more of the Caribbean. We took an ATR out to Dominica, which has one of the most
impressive, crazy approaches I've ever seen, actually. Unexpected highlight. And out to
Barbados as well, and then back. Just an amazing four or five days. Yeah.
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[0:24:16] IP: That's fantastic. Yeah, I'm not jealous at all. No, not at all. I don't know what you're
talking about. Anything else that has been a recent highlight that you think if you're listening to
the podcast, the next thing you should do is go to YouTube and watch this?
[0:24:30] GL: Recent highlights. I mean, still my favorite video that I've made of the year is the
DHL A300.
[0:24:36] IP: That's my favorite, too.
[0:24:37] GL: We were just talking about it recently. And it's a very special one, partly because
of the amazing access, what DHL actually was able to put together for me there to be present
for all of the whole process of checking out how the packages move through the facility, being
there for the loadings, do what you want kind of thing within reason. But I was just given free
access. And then flying through the night on this amazing A300 with an amazing crew. I mean,
it's everything lined up for the perfect – what a nice chance to like show this portrait of a piece of
aviation that a lot of people don't see. A lot of people are sleeping as this happens. Despite the
fact that I was very tired doing it, it was so worth it and so great.
[0:25:14] IP: Well, I mean I was going to ask you about that, because a lot of the most popular
videos on our channel – we were talking about a little bit about this earlier today. A lot of the
most popular videos on our channel are videos where you're working, you're night flying. It's
either cargo overnight, or it's east-bound long-haul overnight. And how does that – we think
about pilots who do it on a regular basis. But you don't necessarily do it on a regular basis.
Does it hit you harder? Or do you think because you don't do it as often, you're maybe spared a
little bit?
[0:25:46] GL: I mean, I'm a wreck after that. And I'm glad that I don't have to do anything related
to the safety of the operation in that situation, because I will generally not have rested. I will not
have planned for this in terms of getting a nap in the day.
[0:25:57] IP: Well, you're not doing controlled rest. You're doing filming for most of the flight.
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[0:26:00] GL: Yeah. My job, arguably less difficult, you could say, but requires a lot of focus and
attention, too. Often for me, it's still thrilling to do this. So, there's a lot of adrenaline going
through the thing of like, "Oh, wow. I get to be here, and I get to show this." And there's a lot
about that operation that's so fascinating. In the moment of doing it, it's usually good. I'm with
the pilots, I'm awake. But afterwards, it definitely hits me very hard.
But there is that thing that we were talking about too that's so interesting, where these night
flights, especially the longer haul ones. But it happened on this DHL12, which was not even – it
was Brussels to Milan. It was a short European flight. But something about the intimacy and the
coziness of a cockpit environment in the night. It just creates this bond, where you also bring out
that human side, human connection. And people kind of open up a bit more. That seems to be a
constant. And I think it's one of the things that makes these videos successful. We get to show
these pilots, this crew kind of their authentic selves in a way. Despite the fact that many people,
for good reason, might come into a situation where a camera's in their face while they're doing
their job, feeling a bit guarded and a bit don't know what this is going to be. In most of those
cases, it doesn't take very long for them to kind of relax and open up. And we just have this nice
bond where we can just chat and show what they do. And it's just such a beautiful thing.
[0:27:10] IP: Do you think there's any part of that that they don't have to look at you? They're
often in captain seat, first-officer seat, and you're usually in the jump seat behind them. There's
kind of a over the shoulder – does that lend itself to them being a bit more relaxed if they're –
you have to kind of get into a leaning position to it?
[0:27:31] GL: Yeah, there are multiple elements there. That's definitely one of them. It's where
they can be looking at a variety of things. They have things to focus on. They're not in the
spotlight in this way where you would be in a traditional interview, or when I hold my camera
near your face and like you talk to me. That can feel very off-putting to people. They would
struggle to relax. I understand. I would as well.
But in this situation, they're in their environment. They have their things they're doing. Part of
their mind is on this, whatever the case may be. And they're talking to me, and they can look
around. And it's a nice environment for that. It's a nice setup. There's also just that coziness of a
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cockpit at night. I think it makes everyone feel a bit kind of easy and warm in a way. The lights
and the sound even. The sort of rushing air sound is really nice.
And yeah, being in that sort of – even on a short flight then, I spent, say, three or four hours with
them. That's much different than showing up. And here's the person you're going to interview.
And they have 10 minutes with you. And here's the camera. This does give them time to sort of
disarm a bit and get relaxed with the fact of this camera being here. That also helps.
[0:28:27] IP: You're stuck with them for a while, or they're stuck with you for a while.
[0:28:29] GL: Yes. Yeah.
[0:28:30] IP: And you all have to kind of get along. Because, again, you said it's not a very big
space. Has that ever happened where anyone's just been been like, "Not." We've gained
access, worked hard with the airline, gotten the crew sign off, and even then, someone's like,
"Not."
[0:28:44] GL: Yeah, it's never been a full I'm not participating or I don't want this, but there is
often, I would say, one pilot in the mix who is just not into it particularly. And they'll take part.
They'll show things. They generally are not fully blocking me out. But they might say, "Listen, I
just don't want to be filmed right now as I do my thing." Or when they eat their meal or
something like that.
[0:29:02] IP: Totally understand that.
[0:29:03] GL: Yeah, totally fair. Totally fair.
[0:29:05] IP: No, that's actually why I'm here. I'm only here to film your meal time.
[0:29:08] GL: People want the food photos. Yeah. Yeah, it's really interesting. Sometimes it will
happen that there's usually one that has a less of a kind of – is less excited about being in it, but
it's not outright against it. That will have ideally been sort of sorted out before the fact, right?
© 2026 AvTalk 15
AVT 372 Transcript
But I have had it where a crew just didn't even really know what was happening that evening.
They had heard that someone was coming. And I've gotten on board. They're like, "So, what are
we doing here exactly?"
[0:29:30] IP: Whatever you want.
[0:29:31] GL: Yeah, exactly. And it actually often turns out great. I mean, I think a lot of pilots,
when they realize that I'm not out to get them, I'm not sort of looking for sensational stuff. I just
want to see what you do and hear about it, and what you think, and look at the process. They
actually realize this is a kind of a nice chance to show what I do. And to a lot of people, I've had
a lot of comments where a captain has said, "My family actually could really see what I do for
the first time because this shows it. I can tell them about it, but it's not the same."
[0:29:56] IP: I'd never even thought about that that they can. I mean, I know that some airlines
have used the videos that you shot for training purposes, but that's a whole new angle of like,
"Look what your parents do at work."
[0:30:06] GL: Yeah, exactly.
[0:30:07] IP: That's awesome. Well, we're going to get ready for some revalry here in the office.
So, let's call this an episode. Gabe, thanks so much for coming on semi-yearly. Although, you'll
be on in just a few weeks again. And I'm really looking forward to that. We'll have more to talk
about that in the coming weeks. And we'll be asking some hard-hitting questions about
nomenclature. What is this thing called and why?
[0:30:31] GL: Just how rigid is it?
[0:30:33] IP: Exactly. And just how rigid is it? This has been episode 372 of AvTalk. I am Ian
Petchenik. Here once again with –
[0:30:43] GL: I'm Gabe Lee. Sorry, I –
[END]
© 2026 AvTalk 16