Loveartpix: Overcoming Autism Stigmas, Embracing Artistic Expression, and Advocating for Neurodivergent Inclusion

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World.
Today's guest is Dez, also known as Love Art Picks,
an award winning multimedia artist and X five Award finalists.
He is currently working on a documentarian production and serves
as an art focused consultant. Dez is also autistic and
has joined us to share his story. We definitely appreciate
his participation. Thanks for coming on.
I was going to good Tonia.
I've been a few podcasts before I turn him down
because speaking on this topic, obviously, you know it's quite
there's a lot of different versions of how people see it,
and there's a lot of stigma around it too, and
I feel that there's a lot of weight on people's
shoulders to say there's no kind of one right thing
to say, is that you get your own troops. Just
for my own life experience. You know, I'm judge daily
and when I mean, I'm six foot three, look a
certain way, come across very confident. Yeah, I'm questioned on
when I say I'm autistic. No, you know, it's like
what and then I really am. That's part of the trauma,
the ideal with even now, you know, it's like I
find that traumatic that people have to say that.
Yeah, it's one of those kinds of things.
So when I was approached by I've forgot a name,
actually want to ask you that the.
Lady you message me, Yeah that was touring.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she messaged me on on LinkedIn and said, yes,
she's done this podcast and me you'd be great on that.
And then I looked up and I thought it'll be great.
You know, I think because you're in the States as well.
I think for me, I feel like it feels a
bit is out of the way, even though it's still global,
you know, like it feels different though in my head
it feels different.
Yeah, I get that, and I'm just really glad that
you came on. So when you get that kind of
attitude with them, saying that you're not autistic. How do
you deal with that?
It depends on who I'm speaking to, you know, and
who says it. But I'd just say, well, okay, you know,
because you can't argue with people. They've got a certain
version in their head. You can't tell them that the
opposite and they're going to leave it immediately. So I
just number to say, well, okay, and I say, well,
five ten years ago, I wouldn't believed I was autistic
myself until I stood it, you know. And then I say, well,
what is autism? And that's why I said that to them.
I say, you don't even autistic? Will you tell me
what autism is? And then every single time is just
there is a silence, and it's it's a complete ignorance.
And I really struggle with that. How people can be
that ignorant. If I told somebody that I had cancer,
you wouldn't question that.
Yeah.
I just feel like, yah, it's not there's that stigma
that really needs to be broken down, and that's what
hopefully I can be part of the movement to make
it better for future generations.
Yeah, that's a great attitude to have. That's one of
the biggest issues that I think I had talking with
people is the ability for others to understand what autism
actually is. Really, until I started this podcast a couple
of years ago, I was one of those people. I
didn't know what autism was. It wasn't in my family.
I didn't have any friends that were autistic. But after
having this podcast and listening to people tell their stories
such as yourself, it hopefully is going to open up
more dialogue where people will start understanding, and hopefully it's
just going to make the world just a little bit better.
Yeah, it's definitely that, and I think, like anything, I
think the more you normally it, the more it's spoken about.
As you say, you know, the bigger problem is that
there's different levels of it. People are very superficial and
they see things in one way and then it's like, oh,
well that's that. I understand it as that, therefore it
can't be that and that that is a big confusion
I think people have when it's like, well, there's many variations.
And since I got my diagnosis, then the immediate thing
from that was, I mean, you get the phone call
after three years of going through the process, we drawn
out process about the phone call, and you know, I cried.
It was the validation I pad on the phone as
I then was I basically, you're autistic. There you go
and you think that there's some sort of some sort
of help, and there isn't anything out there. You get
a couple of things and luckily enough in the area
where I am, which I mean that services shut now.
I had ten free life coach sessions, which was great,
you know, so I think it was during the third
session the lady mentioned nor divergent to me, which I've
never ever heard of unless I've heard it in passing
and not really take a notice of it.
When I looked into that, that was the key moment, not.
Just being autistic, but it was the key mode of
understanding how my brain works and how I process things.
To understand that there's neurodivergent and neurotypical. There's two neurotypes.
That's to me is the key and I figive a
lot more people understand that. I think it will break
things down. And I think in terms of treatment also
as well, if you treat everybody in a neurotypical this
nortypical umbrella mental health mental health on this side, you know,
mental health approach essentially dangerous to a lot of no
divergence as well who are autistic ADHD. You know, what
you're doing in that sense is not right, you know,
So I think there needs to be a lot of
big changes.
Yeah, I can't disagree there. So how old was you
when you was diagnosed?
I was I was forty one years old.
You have forty five nows I mean even in that,
it's just it's opened the key to the door.
You know.
It's like it's like I lived in a stadium analogy
other than like a stadium on my life, the lights
have been switched off.
I've been struggling around.
Now the lights have been switched on, and it's I
can see everything, but there's still tons to go through.
I'll go back through it all, you know, and I'm
trying to understand and everything does make sense come back
through it. But it's just this tons a bit and
it's just I mean, I don't even feel I mean
that I've supposed a lot of people who are diagnosis
and they have a lot of anger because they've not
been diagnosed. For I don't have any anger towards because
I feel if I would have been diagnosed earlier, it
essentially would have been a lot worse. I went through
a lot of racism, and I think being autistic on
top of that, with the stigma attached to it, it
wouldn't have been good, you know. So I think at
this moment in my life, it's the right time for
me to process it. And I have a lot more
understanding and different things in life, you know, So I
think it's the right time.
Now that you've been diagnosed, what were some of the
things that led you to believe that you needed to
get checked out and ultimately get your diagnosis.
Yeah, So I was diagnosed bipolar in my in my
early twenties before I call it the bipolar boom where
everybody was diagnosed bipolar, but I'd never I got just
diagnosed just before that. I'm coming into that I'd never bipolar,
and I was having a lot of issues going out
and you know, I've been meltdowns, which I'm now understanding
to meltdowns and sensory overloads.
I didn't know what was going on.
And then so for twenty years, twenty odd years, I
was under the mental health system, given every medication you
can take, even one of the psychiatrists I've seen and said, look,
you've had every combination you can have.
What else you want us to do for you? And
I was like, that's not what you want to hear,
you know.
So then my partner got pregnant and it was like
I need to get my I need to have a
better understanding of who I am now and I need
to take control of this to be a better father,
you know, to be a good father when my son's born.
When my child, I didn't know it's going to be
a son. So yeah, I had to fight for that.
I mean during the system, when I was in the
mental health system anyway, it's like you buy Paul, that's it.
And there was lots of messing around, and I had
to really kind of fight for that. And then I know,
they got booted off the normal health system a couple
of times because of the mistakes they made. I complained
about them and then there was like, no, it was
your fault, and I had to really fight and then
they come back and then they apologize, and then I said,
I need to sort this out. So they put me
through to the head psychiatrists who said, yeah, you're you're
shore signs of autism, which.
Had been meant many years ago before, but I never
really kind of looked into it. Again.
I didn't know much about it, and I didn't seem
like I fit in that, and I should have researched it.
In hindsight, I wish I would have done, you know,
But yeah, looking through that then that was the big
turning point. And once I looked into it, when they
mentioned it and I went for the initial assessment, I
was like, wow, it blue mead. I was like, how
have I not known this? Everything seems to make sense.
So yeah, I got the diagnosis from that. But then
since then I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I believe that
bipolar and ADHD are very similar, as but you probably
know as well's are very similar. I mean considering that
I've taken every medication for bipolar and it's never worked,
you know, and then I've now got ADHD. Yeah, I
feel like it's always been ADHD. And also being under
the NOE diverge and bracket as well, there's a lot
of mixing and you know. Yeah, so I feel like, yeah,
that's just what it is. And then since then I'll
be researching it even more. And I looked into there's a
lot of trauma that I have and which I always
thought the TRAM was from having racial abuse, growing up,
having a lot of racism, So I thought it was
down to that. Obviously the autism diagnosis, and I looked
into that further and there's a lot of people who
late diagnosed with complex PTSD, so I, you know, I
had the therapy for that as well. Saying that when
I when I did have the therapy for that in
the service, I said, initially on the under the NHS,
I said, can I speak to somebody who has an
understanding of nor divergent conditions? So I said yeah, and
then they came in, and then when we actually went
through the therapy, they said that they couldn't kind of
really finish it because their initial training is on a
neurotypical model. So again when it when we came down
to it at the end, it was like the risk
wasn't worth with the reward they could have. Obviously, you're
visiting a lot of memories and if in that could
trigger more. I mean I struggled with suicide ideation, it
did something like that, then that's not there. They're not
equipped to deal with that. So it wasn't Yeah, it
wasn't worth going into that. So they referther back to
my doctor and said, do not really refer and that
now I've suppoke to my doctor the other week even
and she said, unfortunately, at this moment in time, there
isn't any services out there that can help because and
which I do understand because being I've been late diagnosis,
there's not much research into it. It's fairly new in
terms of what the understand of it. So yeah, I
think we're at that kind of stage now where there
is research GREENTI, it's going to take a long time
before it gets really kicks in.
How have you changed your thought process and your daily
routines from the point of where you thought you might
be autistic until the time that you did find that
you were autistic? So how has that changed for you?
So?
Yeah, So when I was going through the process, I'm
a night person. I think a lot of no diversion
people are as well. You know, my brain comes live
at night, and so I've always been kind of creative.
So I started to create artwork on an app called
Pixart when I'm in bed at night.
That's what I did When'm up all night.
So it's just gives me a way of channeling my
focus on whatever rather than going down rabbit holes what
people do. You know, it was something that I could
really focus. I wouldn't call it. I don't call it
therapy art therapy. I call it art focused because when
I'm creating a hold my breath sometimes, you know, when
I'm creating a piece of artwork, it's like I'm burnt
out after it, mentally burned out to put with so
much focus on it.
So, yeah, I've created art work.
That's what that was kind of what I used my
life too, and now that helps me a lot, but
also as well just going through going from a life
thinking that I was damaged or you know which I
still think that the trauma is a massive elements of that.
But just to know that there's nothing wrong with me.
It's my neuro type, it is my condition. That's been
the big eye on all that. To realize that, no,
there's there's not nothing wrong with you, you know which
I've always thought of my life. So now to understand
that now and to understand there is a reason for it.
I'm not damaged, you know obviously. I mean on top
of that, there is damage, like I said, the trauma
side of things. Yeah, that's made the difference. One of
the things I when I was diagnosed by a polar,
when I was being a psychiatrist, who were saying to me,
what triggers it? What triggered I'm like, well, I can't
pit pinpoint anything. Something had just happened and that's it,
and there's no kind of pattern to it. But when
I look at it now, there is a pattern. It's
just any any change in that's in the slightest pattern.
You know, where I could walk into a room and
there be something out of place and that will completely
from it. You know, where it can be that's a
bit depending on how my moods are. So yeah, now
now I have a great understanding that my partner understands
that too. So you know, again it's not it's not perfect.
It's that I still struggle, you know, but just knowing
these extra things, I can put things in place. So now,
like I mean, when I spoke to you in the emails,
you know, I said that can we speak briefly before it,
you know, just I like to understand things go into
something blind, you know, and when any service that I
deal with, I communicate and said, can you just make
sure you communicate If you say going to bring me
this time, make sure you do. You know that these
little things kind of massive knock on effects. So I
try to be as open as I can to people
now to explain to them. So I'm trying to prevent
something rather than deal with it after.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. One of the things that
I like to do in my podcast is to have
conversations like we're having right now.
Yeah.
I feel that if the people that are listening hear
a good conversation, they're going to follow and understand what
you're saying and be more engaged because it just seems
more natural to them.
Yeah.
Add to that that you might give me an answer
that leads to another question and then it expands the
conversation and things just get better from there.
Yeah. I believe in that too.
I think before I've done I've done a couple of
radio calls before. There was one that I did and
that was kind of the game of the questions, and
I didn't like because I don't like to read over
it because then I'll overanalyze that. I'd ratherly put on
the spot to a degree and then I can get
the most natural an answer as much as trying to
give the you know, you asked me one question. I've
got a million thoughts in my head to answer that,
which can be overwhelming. So sometimes I'll go off pattern
as well as you can probably already realize I'm trying
to answer so much things. But you know, when it's
scripts and I think it's I'm not really great with
the scripts. I think it's just there's the natural flow
of things. I create my artwork that way as well.
I have a rough and night idea of it, but
I like it to be natural and organic.
Absolutely. When did you start your ARC work? Is this
something you've been doing recently or all your life.
I've always kind of been artistic my views and stuff
like that, but it was the main one I started
to focus on. It was when going through the assessment.
So it got diagnosed in for in twenty one, so
it was a couple of years before that, but I
really kind of focused on it more so during the diagnosis,
you know, and I realized I had a bit of
a talent about it. I'd like to say that, but
you know, I realized that I've got my own kind
of niche of my own style and it's helpful for me.
So I wanted to get my artwork out there, and
then there were certain people asking me to do piece
of artwork, and I thought it's a great way to
get my stuff out there. But I struggled a lot
with that as well, because I have my own style
and my own visions, and when people want something very specific,
you could give one hundred artists the same you know,
list to do, and they would come out of one
hundred different styles of the same thing, even they've got
five words that they've got to do, you know, off
the briefing. So for me, I think it's just your
own interpretation and if people can't see that, got to
kind of be open. So I like to express myself
in my own way, and I don't have one style.
I like to look at different styles, and because I'm
self taught as well, I like to take styles and
try things out, try new things out.
Yeah, I think that's just great. Is our main focus now?
Yeah? I mean that is my main thing what I do.
Because I found the art now and I'm understanding my
diagnosis and my neorotype. At this age in my life,
I want to really and I don't I hate sony
cliche when I say it. I want to really make
a difference. I want to help people. If I can
help anybody, I will do so. I use our art
as the tool. It's not something that I just you know,
it could have been the gym, you know, when I
was going through my diagnosed, I could have been one
of the gym. It's just that it happens to be
artwork and something it really helps me in so many
different ways. I think it's kind of niche in that
you don't have to leave the house, which I leave
the house once or twice i read max. Sometimes I've
not left the house in months. When I do leave
the house, it takes me a lot of focus to
go out, and then the burnout after it as well.
I mean even this meeting, now, where's this zoom?
You know, after this, I would burn out to this.
The preparation mentally for this, but I'm prepared for it,
and I feel it's for the greater good, you know,
in many different terms.
The art has just.
Really really come as as my tool for that. But
then from that, now I've got my first the first
ever no divergent art focus grouping a maximum security prison
it's never been done before. That's working with No Divergent prisoners.
That's the first time it's kind of'm collaborating with them.
I've got a group of guys and that's gone really well.
That one.
I've already been asked by prisons to go in there.
I've got my first art exhibition which will be in
Manchester in the UK in next year. It'll be early
next year. It should have been all late this year,
but there's been a few changes in that. It's my
first solo But then what I wanted to do as well,
I wanted to do a couple of collaborations with other
No Divergent artists to use my platform to help them. Also, well,
I've got my documentary. There's been filming me for two years.
So yeah, everything's geared towards They're all linked into twining,
to raising awareness and making a difference.
Yeah, I think that's awesome. How has it affected your family?
Have they accepted it or are they learning and growing
right along with you on it?
Yeah? I think some of my wider family.
I mean, I keep myself to myself, as I say,
you know, I only go out to only go out
once fast a week when I do go out. If
I go to family occasions, I have to drink. And
this is one thing as well that I've kind of
realized later on when people say, oh, are.
You all right?
Because when I go out, I'm a very confident person.
That's part of the masking, the autistic masking. So when
I go out, so I've reevaluated and I was thinking, well,
all these times these people have seen me, I've been drinking.
You know, I only see these people that family dos
are that, So you know, it's part of the mask
as well. And I do understand why people don't get
it because of the level of masking. The thing that's
struggling with is that if somebody, if you perceive somebody
is so confident, why would they lie about something that
has such a stigma around it to get attention With
you don't need attention, It doesn't make sense that I
think it's a reflection of people who don't believe it
rather than me, and I think that that's the something
about it.
Unfortunately, it's the big unknown, it's the big misunderstanding. So
many people do not even understand what autism is, so
because of that, they only have their perception of what
it is, which is rain Man. I had a person
tell me one time, she told a person that she
was autistic, and the comeback was, well, you don't look autistic.
Because of that, she wished that she hadn't told her.
The unfortunate part is the understanding is just not there yet.
So we just need to keep pushing all the information
we can and hopefully people can get more knowledge and
understanding about autism.
Yeah, it's you say, you know, And it's to me
a while to even get to this stage now where
I mean, the documentary is in editing.
They're in the editing stage of that.
Now that's quite dauncing when that comes out, because there's
a lot of personal stuff on that and that's got
a big reach, you know, and it's like you know
this as well, you know. But I feel like if
I'm not going to do it, who else is going
to do it? And that's that's not my own thing.
I know, everybody is doing their own bits, and that
I feel like it's on me too as a human
as somebody wants to make my part in society. That's
what I really want to make that change. And I
have the understanding and you know, a blog about this
thing as well, you know, and what I know, I'm
no specialist. I'm still understanding myself, but I do understand
a lot more than I would say that average job.
So yeah, I'm just trying. I'm just trying to get
it out there. And and like you say, it's just
it's just talking and breaking the stigma down, breaking that
stigma down. I think everything in the world has a label.
People talk about label. That's another thing, and they say, oh,
I don't like the label, but everythinge's label male female.
We learn as babies, as children by labeling that's food,
that's water, that's vegetable. It's the perception of the label.
One of the analogies I use is I mean, it's
not probably the greatest one, but it's if when people
are growing up, for boys, for example, you know, same
our son now, who's who's seven years old, if you
ask him doesn't want to be a football player when
he's order or a biman, I can guarantee you and
I know what his answer would be already, you know.
And that's just the perception of that role. The famous
Leberty you know what, the great the skills, but a
biman is just just as you know, just as good.
It's the perception of what it is. So if you
change the perception, we can change everything else. And that's
tell that negativity away from him, that there's positive is
negative and everything.
Absolutely. People have to understand that some of the most
intelligent people in the history of the world were autistic. Yeah,
so you're right. Perception is everything in the dynamics of
what people see and what they understand about autism.
Yeah, they can't link that.
You know, some of we probably wouldn't be speaking here
on my map book now right now who wasn't for
you know, nor divergent people, you know who think outside
the box. With my exhibition coming up, I'm working with
a range of no divergent. I think it's like seven
seven there is. I've got a late diagnosed lady. She's
a classic violinist, so she's created a piece of music
on how she feels socializing. It's about work to go
with that. I've got a gentleman as well. He's sixty
one years old. He had a late diagnosis of autism.
He's exploring his life now, you know, for the first
time ever, he's starting to He's a poet, great wordsmith.
So he's done a poem on masking. I've done a
piece of artwork to go with that. I've got two
young boys who are at school. They're artistic. I've done
some mat we collaborating a piece of artwork for that.
I just wanted to show the different styles and rangers,
just to promote that, you know, and I think the
more people can see it and just relate to it,
there's some good projects with them. So I'm excited about it.
Yeah, absolutely, you should be. And I love the shirt
that you have on. People can't see it, but it
says I woke up with autism today.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's when finding out. I just put something out
on social media today when I was going through the diagnosis.
Once I have the diagnosis sorry of autism, you research
it immediately like it wasn't. Even though I believe that
I wasn't. It would have told me I wasn't. It
would have been a blow because the way that I
think as well, which I think is very artistic trait,
is it needs to be factual to a degree. So
you know, even though I knew myself, if they didn't
tell me it wasn't, and it wouldn't have been and
I wouldn't have said that.
I was.
Yeah, when when you go away in your research it's
all about children, that the research isn't there in adults
fully yet you know we're getting there now. So obviously
you go on social media and you look out of them.
And there was a someone that came across called Born
Anxious and Kelly who runs that her son is autistic,
no divergent, and she's brought out all these she does
all these different clothing. I've done a clothing line with
her as well to promote farness and yeah, that's this
is one of the things there, and that's that's one
of the hats from the other day, Born Anxious. So yeah,
I think it's just once you start to speak to
people as well who are no divergent or just I've
been understanding it. Just it makes you feel like you're
not on your own kind of thing.
Absolutely. That's actually part of my intro and outro for
my podcast is that you are not alone in this world.
What would you like to tell people that you might
want to express to them about how you feel about
the autism and the community.
Just keep it so anybody doesn't understand it.
Listen to people who are autistic, you know, listen to
people are knowre a divergent, Listen to listen with an
open mind anything that you think, you know, just just
be upen minded about it. Anybody who is autistic as well,
or all think that they are all struggling. Just just
try to listen to yourself. And that is the complicated one.
You know, relationships are complicated, and there's a generational thing
too as well, you know, and you speak to people
and that they won't have it, and that can be
really damning, especially when you're trying to unmask for me,
isolating myself away from people who are negative, bringing myself
away and then reaching out to people on social media.
Social media is it can be poisonous in one aspect,
Like Facebook. Yeah, I stay away from Facebook. I find Facebook,
I don't like that. Instagram, I like Instagram. LinkedIn, you know,
LinkedIn is a great one for connecting with people globally.
Yeah, there's a lot of good ones out there. I
like Facebook. I get a lot of interaction on it.
Instagram is pretty good for me, Twitter not so much.
LinkedIn is good, of course. So yeah, it's just a
matter of using all of them and getting the most
out of it that you can so that it does
what you needed to do, and that's really all that matters.
Yeah, exactly.
There's there's a lot of platforms in the end, and
if you're trying to do them all for me, I
mean promoting myself and getting the story out there, but
also I was promoting just connecting with people, and I
speak with a lot of different people on Instagram. A
lot of people message me daily. I have a lot
more relationships with people on land than I have for
people out of my whole life. I speak to them
a lot more.
Yeah, I totally get that for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's just more of an understanding and once you
have that connection, that's it. And I think that there's
the less judgment as well, you know, for people who
understand it but on the same kind of things together out.
With Yeah, for sure. I think that with so social
media it's kind of like the real world. You have
to block out all the negativity and just only deal
with the people that are giving the positive vibes that
you're looking for in real life.
Yeah, yeah, definitely, that's that's the Yeah, that definitely. I mean,
my partner laughs, I've blocked people for fun I don't.
I don't do it as much anymorecause I think I've
blocked them out. Well, you know, I used to have
so many people on it, and I just think that's
just too negative. That's just too negative. And it's and
when you reopen to these things and a lot of things,
it can impact your mood, you know. So it's like
there's one image and it can impatch you so much. No,
I don't need to see that, you know. So, yeah,
I've stopped a few people on mind.
Yeah, I totally agree on that. Well, it's been a
great conversation. I really appreciate you coming on.
Oh no, thank you for having me on as well.
You know again, it's the first podcast that I've done,
so yeah, it's a thank for being for being welcoming.
How do people find you?
Yeah, on on Instagram it's love that pics and and
the same. I mean my website is the same. Ww
do moveboutpics, dot co, dot uk and any angles.
There's just love that. That's just easy to contact me
on that.
Well, that's great information. It's been a great conversation and
again I've really enjoyed this.
Yeah, definitely is I've been nervous all day.
I've been anxious about this, but yeah, you've made it
really comptable.
Yeah, it's been great. It's been a great experience.
Yeah, I agree, it's been great. Thanks again, Thanks for
taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen
to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it
as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If
you know anyone they would like to tell us their story,
send them to tonymantor dot com. Contact then they can
give us their information so one day they may be
a guest on our show. One more thing we ask
tell everyone everywhere about why not me? The world, the
conversations we're having, and the inspiration our guests give to
everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.