#410 - Bear Rinehart of NEEDTOBREATHE On The Time He Thought The Band Was Over + Still Liking Each Other After 9 Albums + Opening for Taylor Swift and One Republic + Playing Wide Receiver in High School Then Making The Band 'Watch Tape'

00:00:06
Speaker 1: Ten years in our career. We had just an absolute meltdown of all kinds for probably two to three years. There's no encouraging word for the show. It is just get through it, whatever it takes.

00:00:20
Speaker 2: Episode four ten. This is Bear, the lead singer of Need to Breathe. I'm gonna play a few clips the top three streaming songs from Need to Breathe. Here's Brother with Gavin de Graw, here is Multiplied, and here is Testify. The Caves World Tour is gonna head out with Judea and the Lions starting August eleventh and Green Bay, Wisconsin, and their ninth studio album, Caves is due. It's out September fifteenth. I am a Need to Breathe fan, Bear, Seth, Josh Randall, Tyler, this group of guys, I mean, they're really good, that the live show is really good. From Seneca, South Carolina. He talks about that how he got to Nashville. I started off Bear and his brother performed at a coffeehouse at Firman University, where Bear, who talks about why his name Bear was by the way, it was named after somebody famous in football and was also a big football player. The lead singer, So let's hear about it. That's pretty cool. He came to the house. I don't know. I guess I thought he seems a lot bigger, like taller. Well, no, like looking at him, I thought because I was, I thought he's like six or four. When I sat with him, not in a picture, I didn't go, I can't believe he's so big. And then he gets there and he's Danny DeVito. No, I didn't know how big he was. And he walked in and I was like, dang, dude's big. Maybe he was in boots, but he's also like ripped. Yeah, and then I knew he was like an excellent college football player. So but yeah, I wouldn't mess with him. If he would have said I'm five to six in this interview, I still wouldn't mess with him. Like, yeah, for sure. His wife was here too. She didn't say anything, and we did talk about her a little bit later, but she's sitting right there, right beside him kind of, and so that was interesting to watch him talk about her and see her face. I never really went to her because I don't know if she want to be on or not. He and not jumping in. Yeah, but then I learned after the interview they had done an interview together before, and I was like, thank, I should have brought her in. But you just never know. You know, Need to Breathe got a new album coming out. You can follow them on Instagram and TikTok at Need to Breathe. And here we go with episode four ten. Good to see you been a fan for a long time.

00:02:27
Speaker 1: Thanks man.

00:02:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cool. So I guess how we have been connected is my PR person, Christy said, hey, will you have on Bear or Need to Breathe? And I was like, yeah, when what day? Tomorrow? An hour from now? This is like a month ago. When she was She's like, well we just started working with them, and she's awesome.

00:02:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, well, yeah, that's all.

00:02:49
Speaker 2: I didn't And I didn't know you guys lived here in Nashville. Yeah, does the whole band live here?

00:02:54
Speaker 1: No, They're all over the place.

00:02:56
Speaker 2: And that's as a kid, I could never imagine a band living in different places, or a wrestling tag team, those like the two things that I thought living together all the time.

00:03:04
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's and it's tougher for sure. And in the early days, there was there was no way that would have been possible. We all lived in Charleston together for about ten years and then Seneca, South Carolina before that.

00:03:17
Speaker 2: One of my I guess, there are a couple of buddies of mine. They're in a country duo and one of them lives here now, one lives in Florida.

00:03:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:03:24
Speaker 2: But and what they were telling me is when you're on the roads, you're on the road. You don't have to ride there together to that you yeah, right, you kind of just meet there and if you've spent time together, you already know each other and know. So was that an issue with you guys when you first when you guys first started.

00:03:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a little bit. I think we just changed the way. It's mainly recording. It's the thing that's the tough part, the road stuff like you come in for a couple of days rehearsals and that's all here, which is nice for me, and they've chosen to have that extra part of it. But now we were like we'll get a house, you know, for a week to ten days or something and get in there and like do all the demos you know, that way, and like it just I mean, it's not even just living in the same town just growing up. You know, back in the day, it was like you're in the van together all the time, and so all the scheming goes on late at night when you're got nothing else is too and so we I feel like we have to kind of create that space now. But they but we kind of love that too. You know, we've turned your phones off and like stay somewhere for ten days and don't leave and just get go back to garage band style.

00:04:27
Speaker 2: Do you guys? And then I'm only half kidding, but you still like each other.

00:04:32
Speaker 1: We actually really love each other. Yeah, it's and that's you know, that's always an up and flow probably, but it's a huge I think as we've gotten older. I mean we're on the ninth record now, it's it's like it's become such a so important to everybody. So we put a lot of time into that part. I feel like the culture around you know, not just the band, but the crew and everybody just like, you know, if you don't want to be here and not enjoying it, you know, so of your family, it's not good for anybody.

00:05:01
Speaker 2: Our show is a bit like that, where the radio show that I do, it's me and basically all my friends and I didn't know what I was doing, and I hired what people didn't know what they were doing. And so like my coast Amy and I have been together for how long might you think, seventeen years? Yeah, my best friend Eddie and I have been doing this for like fourteen Lunchbox another guy on my show for like eighteen years, and it's kind of it's ebbed and flowed, very much like human relationships have. We had human relationships first, which became professional and there have been times with each individual person that it's not been great. But that's every friend that you ever have your whole life. You have a long term friendship with, you have, you go through good and badges because it's been so long since you guys have been together. And so I really admire that in a band who can stay together.

00:05:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not easy. It's been the hardest part. But I think early on, like we would meet like bands that we thought were here at the time, you know, and they're basically just stay together. That's the hardest thing to do. And so I think we always had it in the back of our mind and we are better at it now. I do feel like we have. I'm having more fun playing music than I ever have in terms of just like I know, it's what I love to do when I'm here to do, and that's comforting. You know, you don't feel like there's no exit strategy for it, because like this is your choice. You're in it, and so that's been good. And then it's just we keep it light too, man. It's it's and we still have fun like we're kids when we get together. It's very you know, summer campy, I guess or whatever. It is sort of a gang kind.

00:06:37
Speaker 2: Of passionate fan bases are often territorial. Yeah, you guys have a very passionate fan base. They are also very territorial. And there's balance with loving your fans and going I appreciate all the support and then also being like, yo, guys, chill out just a little bit. Yeah, you know, it's something you got to tell you. My people like, yo, chill out just a little bit. Like I know you you're in it, yeah, but but oh like, don't go as crazy on other folks for me, right, Yeah.

00:07:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:07:05
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel that way that you're because you have some diehard fans.

00:07:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do, but I would say it's good, it's interesting. Like they we started this thing, I don't know, ten years ago, we did started doing compadres tours where we were like, we'll bring our friends out and and we found out like it wasn't necessarily the music ties, it was more culturally the thing that mattered. So we brought out Ben Rector like it is a good example, you know, Drew Holkom all these guys that like I was buddies and played golf and stuff, and our fans really embrace those artists. And so now I feel like, at least if they're kind of under our umbrella, you know, like we kind of welcome them in and then they're really cool to that. And we haven't done a ton of the other thing we opened, you know, we've done We've done two opening tours our whole career, which was well, i'll say in the last fifteen years, and it was Taylor Swift and uh One Republic most recently. So that's the only time is when it's like, you know, and we'll get on the boards and defend the other bands because it's like this is ridiculous, you know what I mean, It just you know what I mean, it's stupid. They're getting wonderbout was giving us opportunity to play in front of these people, you know, they're fans, Like that's a big deal, Like treat them with respect. It's like, I don't care if you don't like the music or you don't like the way they do something, and I yeah, I think that goes it's it's it's that way every way. I mean, we have a sort of spiritual underpinning to what we do. So that's always been the tricky part because it's like, oh, they you played their song on this TV show. Now we you know, like you shouldn't have done that, You shouldn't have done you know, a lot of weird judgment without sort of seeing the reason behind it.

00:08:39
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, and someone it's just a numbers game too, right. I Mean, even with like my security issues, I've other people that try to like kill me. That doesn't happen because I'm like so good or so bad at why to do it? Just when you talk to millions of people, Yeah, you got a couple of nuts in there, and that's like security. But also with the popularity of you guys, when you get so big, you're just going to have some people that you got to be like, hey, you're don't really representing the brand like we'd like to have. Yeah, you mentioned Rector is my best friends and so. And I'm not going to speak for Ben, but with Ben some people will just insert meaning it in his songs. Wrote that song. But if that's what that, I want to fight with him about it. He's like, that's where you what you find in the song?

00:09:19
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:09:19
Speaker 2: Do you find that that happens a bit with you guys as well?

00:09:23
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, for sure, I think and I think it's I think we would say this about genre as well. It's just like, you know, when we were coming up like the niche things or like Emo or whatever, it was like my chemical Romance stuff like that. It was like a very like if you're not one of those bands, and what are you? You know, And we didn't like that. So the same we just don't like classification. You don't want you really don't want borders up to why people can like the music. That's ultimately and we were saying that out loud. But then at the at the Christian thing, it made us like Bristle even more. For some reason, I think mainly just because the truth is like most people when they're singing, they're singing in a derogatory way. They're trying to write all the music by saying it. But then we kind of had to look at it ourselves and go like, well, if we say this about these other genres or these other classifications, that we got to be able to say it there. So yeah, I think I think there's been more of an embrace of the idea of like, if somebody relates to your music, that's the point, you know, and and it doesn't really matter to us why. And I think in terms of songwriting, my whole like philosophy with it is like I come from like a Springsteen writing school of like, you know, the meanings are layered in there, and they're personal, and you hope that like a piece of that line really, you know, somebody that connects to them in whatever way. The power of it is that I didn't think of it, you know, And so I think that that is the same way. So if I'm if we're at a show and like someone's like raising their hands to like some song that has nothing to do with God, really, I just kind of have to be like, yeah, cool, you're into it, you want a hula hoop to it. What do we want to do? I think that's yeah. I think we just had have gotten better at we Still I still feel that pinch of like we were playing the House Blues like maybe a month ago or whatever, and I heard the bartender together who's playing that? You know, it's like some Christian band? You know. That stings to me because it's like, man, we really tried this whole time to like just be a band, and that feels like some way you know, limiting us to that. You know. So yeah, that's probably where the biggest struggle is still.

00:11:26
Speaker 2: Man, When someone calls me a DJ, that stings. I was trying to think of what my what the parallel was for me, and they're like, yeah, this DJ, And I'm like, I don't even care about the music I play. I don't play a whole lot of music. I'm hired to talk and every once in a while to be like, I like this song. But most people that came up the way I came were thought, well, that's called the DJ who plays music, right, So when I get to see yeah, it's like I like wind set, Like, oh I don't like that. But then I have to go Okay, I can't blame them, sure and what they heard and how they interpreted, but I I hate it making I want to punch some me in the face, like me a DJ. It's like, by the worst, you call me anything, just don't freaking DJ man, but you and again I am I guess And also I feel insulted for like real DJs, like a real talent. It's a real skill. But when somebody goes to that Christian band, you guys are I mean, you are a bunch of Christians and you are a band that was no, but you're not just that. And I do, I do feel that when you I didn't until you said that right there, but I was.

00:12:30
Speaker 1: Like DJ DJJ right.

00:12:32
Speaker 2: The first time I saw you, guys was at it was in Austin, Texas frank Rowin Center. Oh yeah, it's probably been ten years or so, and I hope this is not insulting. My friend was like, hey, there's a really good Christian band coming and I was like, okay, cool, But I didn't it didn't feel like and I grew up uh in church and going to a lot of Christian shows, but I didn't feel like I felt like a Yeah, I felt like a rock or like a like a blues type show. And I remember going, oh that, they're like, that's kind of like switch Foot. At the time, that's what I was. I was like a switch Foot. They're not going we're Switchfoot. We're a Christian band. We're guys who do like freaking good music and we're just also Christians. I remember thinking that about you guys then, And I could be totally wrong, but is there any relation at all to how they did their music like.

00:13:26
Speaker 1: A switch for sure? Career wise, I mean that was something that so I grew up like when dad was a preacher, we were and at the time, not now, it was like very conservative about that stuff. So I could only listen to Christian music when I was a kid, And so when something good came out that like had that crossover or whatever that you know, appeal basically my friends also liked it. That was a massive thing for me at fifteen sixteen, it was like, oh, you know this, this is not just limited to this thing this John. The truth is at the time I didn't really like and so seeing them do that and getting to know them over the years, like yeah, there was a lot of especially early on it was like, oh, how did you do it right? And John's like, don't do it, it's crazy, you know. But I think, yeah, we we admired the fact that like it was bigger than that that genre and and uh yeah, so I think that's probably where it like ends in terms of the comparisons where you have tour together, you know a good bit and.

00:14:24
Speaker 2: I MA asked the really dumb questions and insulted on my questions. No, no, no, it's not only curious, not at all, because again I've been to your shows. I've been a fan, you know, to see this version of you guys even now, because I don't feel like I feel like now you're doing things that or the music that you've been making, even over the past three five years or so, even like the live stuff that I have. Yeah, it just feels like anybody could take any message they want to from it in great difference. Yeah, but you could go play a show where no one even knows you have any relationship to Christianity, Buddhism, the forty nine ers doesn't matter. They just enjoy the music regardless.

00:14:57
Speaker 1: Well, and that I mean, I think it just goes back to the philosophy of like how you make music. It's like if you I just can't start out with thinking about like what do I want to teach someone with this, Like that's that's the end of like good music for me. If I start thinking about who the audience is or why they're going to like it, then it's over. So to me, it's more about like what am I feeling in this in this time in my life? And that's changed a ton over twenty years. So record to record the way we even even I would say, even the guys in the band going like, yeah, we're all Christians, like I think there would be there would be several hands in the band and like, ah no, actually don't think I want to relate to that right now. So we just don't make it that way. So I think that does lead to music that isn't that way. Really has become a business term.

00:15:42
Speaker 2: That's what mostly for me, and not just in where you are in spaces where a lot of my friends and even and I'll bring it back to Ben because he brought them up. He's like, I don't even know where I fit yeah, And he's like I don't have a place, yeah, So I feel like I fit nowhere and I think what's great about And I don't know if you and Ben still have a relationship. Oh yeah, okay, So Ben will come over and we just kind of talk sense into each other where he's like, I don't know. I'm like, dude, you're selling eight thousand hard tickets, like you'll play a send here in town, and so you will sell that place out, and you're telling me you don't have a place. There are artists that would give three fingers to sell eight thousand hard tickets all around the country. Yeah, And so he's like yeah, but and then the same way, I'm going, you know, I just don't know, And he's like, dude, you talk to five million people every day, you got two TV shows, and you're like, I don't know where I So it's like we need that other perspective because we feel a bit like we don't have a When I was in pop and hip hop, I was too country to be in pop and hip hop. Now that I'm a country, I'm off and her from the really country people. I'm too pop or I don't it's a hip hop anymore to pop, you know, to the country, And I can definitely see where that would also bleed over into the music side. When you're saying genres are they.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: Are they're constructed. Yeah, I'm in industry. Well when you see it like it's a double edged sword, I think because of this, Like but but Spotify and all those but you don't have meetings with them now, it's always like, well, genres are dead, it's over. It's vibes, you know. It's like playlists based on whatever they want to do. Which that is great for a band like us, where it becomes like, oh, this is this is what you listen to by the campfire. It doesn't matter what it is. The other the problem with that is like it's also the death of bands right because it's like the playlist is happening. They have no idea who they act is. And so I would say with Ben, you know, and with us, like I tell him this all the time, like, dude, it's it's the craziest thing to have a loyal fan base that doesn't care if you like, we're not going to get attacked if we don't play a certain song. It's not it's just they're not there to see that one thing. Everybody's not waiting till the end. Like the fact that you got people showing up and singing every song, every song, and they live their lives to it, you know, I tell everybody that's the thing I'm most proud of. It is like when when people send stuff in like yeah, birth to my child or this funeral or whatever, it is like that's the playlist that they're they're going to this music to lean on in a time like that, Like that's that's really I have to check myself constantly about it. But that is the ultimate goal, you know, Like that's I feel like that's why we're that's why we're making this stuff.

00:18:06
Speaker 2: I want to check my phone and see the song I've played from you guys the most. I didn't do this because I am a fan and I'm very professional too, So I'm gonna check my phone here because I'm just curious in my playlist the song that I've played most. I know it's going to be live, the live because you guys did a whole live record.

00:18:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that record was so good man.

00:18:25
Speaker 2: That's the one. And I always like the little bit of talking things. Not too much talking on my record, but I need a little bit of talking. So I know that you actually were there right really, because anybody you go on a studio and fake stuff. I mean you can fake talking, I guess, but the live record to me because you sound your band. You're so tired, obviously, but you sound so legitimate on the live record, because there are a lot of people who shy away from doing something live because maybe that performance aspect just isn't there sure, And I think vocally on the live record most of all, you really show that just how good you are. Is there a different kind of vulnerability when you're recording a live record that's different than like cage it's gonna come out.

00:19:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a different art form. I feel like we've always seen it as the one thing we could control. I think it was like early on when we signed with Atlantic first, and it was like, you know, you're gonna be the biggest thing, and then you're not. You know, then you realize like, oh, we've got to figure this out. The only thing we could fit we could like get a hold of, was like, well, if we can make this one hundred people, two hundred people next time and then kind of keep doing that, then you actually have a career. So I think we put a lot of weight into I don't feel like I feel pressure about the live records at all, because I really do believe like and our fans know this, like there's not nights off in terms of effort with us. There might be a night where it doesn't feel you know what I mean, just like anything going on. But I think in terms of I'm incredibly proud of that the way how serious we take it, Like we feel like every night is is the night, and even the smallest ones are the most important. Hang tight.

00:20:05
Speaker 3: The Bobby Cast will be right back, and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

00:20:18
Speaker 2: Did you do more than one live record? How many have you done?

00:20:22
Speaker 1: I have no idea more than two? No, I think it's either two or three.

00:20:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, well the one? Okay? Here? You ready to hear my songs?

00:20:30
Speaker 1: Once?

00:20:30
Speaker 2: I listened to the most sunshine heard of it? Yeah, what's funny because you didn't hear that? That's not keep your eyes open? Ye heard of that one?

00:20:41
Speaker 1: Ye?

00:20:42
Speaker 2: And lay them down nice? Yeah, those are the ones that I've listened to the most. What would that say about me?

00:20:48
Speaker 1: Oh? Up, tempo positive?

00:20:53
Speaker 2: Nothing talk says me more than that.

00:20:54
Speaker 1: All right, up positive? I don't know any Maybe that's what you need you gravitating, I think so, but I do love slow.

00:21:01
Speaker 2: My favorite music though is slow.

00:21:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love slow and sad to ask me too, because.

00:21:06
Speaker 2: I also want to know. I need you to tell me how I'm feeling sometimes, and I want to feel I can actually hear the words, yeah, like I can. I know melodies, but I don't really records.

00:21:14
Speaker 1: That's what I gravitate too. I think. I think when we're now, like if it were just me right at my place, it would be it's going to be like that pretty heavy ballot kind of stuff. But then making the records, you're trying to put yourself. We do it way more now than we ever have, Like we will put pictures up of us playing live somewhere, like just we're constantly trying to go, okay, put yourself on the moment. What would you want to play in front of ten thousand people? And then I think that gets an energy level because obviously you can't have a show where it's all ballads if people don't you know.

00:21:44
Speaker 2: That's my perfect show though, I just want to go and yeah, well sad show. Ever.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: I saw with the Bonny Bear like that it was so slow and quiet, and I was like I think my heart rate just slowed down. Just listen to it, like I'm into that. But I do think there's an energy level. I love the I played football in college as a small school, but like, yeah, this this like sort of on tin. I don't like sports where you're like have to be passive, you know. At tennis is one of those where it's like, you know, if you hit it too hard out but like so I don't like that. I want to I want to get you're an aggressive fellow, Yeah, yeah, igro when it's well, I'm quiet. So when it's like when I'm doing something like that, I want to just go full on. And the show is that kind of opportunity for me to like, you know, people both talk about like the flow state or whatever. That's that's me when I can't when I forget where I'm at, it's because I'm on tent. I'm going as hard as I can go. And I love that feeling. And so I think that's you need songs vehicles for that, you know what I mean. So that's probably where the rock thing kind of like continues to come. That's the reason for it. I definitely don't think if I have the songs that play at my funeral. They're not going to be you know, it's not gonna be kissed, you know what I mean, It's gonna be something.

00:22:54
Speaker 2: Uh where did you see Bonavara? Uh?

00:22:57
Speaker 1: Nine thirty club in DC?

00:22:59
Speaker 2: And so again I'm familiar. I can't say that I've set and listened to a lot of his music, but I when the Bonavera Grammy situation happened, I listened to a lot of for a brief period of time, right, yeah, and then he did some stuff of tailor and so I kind of experienced that. But I can't act like I'm a huge fan for a large period of time. But his whole show is like the music that I.

00:23:21
Speaker 1: Know, oh most beautiful thing. Like I was blown away by because this is a none thirty clubs like a thousand seed club in DC and one of the better live clubs in America, I think. But it was like like the kick drum would last a long time on a song and then the next time not you know what I mean. It's like the like that's like for live sounds nerdy, but it's like that's a hard thing to do in a live room because feedback and everything, so I feel like you go to these shows, they all sound the same in some ways, Like the band just sounds like it kind of sounds like a track because everything's been like notched out and everything. It wasn't that it was like it could breathe song to song and I was like that two drummers, strings, trumpets.

00:23:59
Speaker 2: All the brothers.

00:24:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:24:01
Speaker 1: It was crazy, yeah, not messy like that. It's just like they were doing different interesting things. I was. I was blown away by and still I mean, you're trying to create that situation for a fan that is personal, and that's still the challenge of Like I feel like obviously cold Play does a good job of that now where if like everybody gets their own light and whatever, it is, like, that's the idea, that's the reason to do it. It's like and I've always wanted to be like, I'm really excited about this whole dome thing. Well they don't call it a dome, the Vegas thing that you two is.

00:24:29
Speaker 2: Going to basketball or whatever you want to.

00:24:32
Speaker 1: I'm like the idea of like, but the seats literally shake and there's sound that comes there and they can blow wind on their face. The idea of having that just being immersed in it, I think, is what you're trying to do. So that's the way I felt at that show, which is I think the reason I gravitate.

00:24:46
Speaker 2: Towards them best show You've ever been to is that we said or one of the I think so.

00:24:50
Speaker 1: I think so.

00:24:51
Speaker 2: We were just talking about this. This isn't really on the spot because I'm not going to catch your scholarship if you miss it. But you're like top three or four live shows you've been to.

00:25:01
Speaker 1: I saw Springsteen at Hyde Park when he went over and got canceled, and it was like they tried to cut him off, the cut the speakers off, and he kept playing for another twenty minutes for whatever fee that was. Paul McCartney was there. It's like all I saw James Taylor when I was sixteen first started playing guitar, and I realized I would never be able to do that. The Black Crows in college first rocker. I was like into acoustic like Toad, the Wetsprocket and stuff like that when I was in college and I went to see them randomly because a friend asked me, and it was so rock and roll in like the old school way that I went out and got electric guitar the next day. It's like, this is this unlocked something to me? Yeah, I'm sure I'm missing some I saw. I saw the Food Fighters open for the Chili Pepperts.

00:25:48
Speaker 2: Me too. First I went to the same Yeah, they toured twice, and I went to both of those tours. The first time they opened, the second time they did a split headline Foo Fighters got Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think we're the same age, and I think just the music that we like and influence that's just very similar, you know, from the artists that you're even listing here. But yeah, the Food Fighters and the Chili Pepper is one of the greatest tours I've ever seen.

00:26:10
Speaker 1: It was great. I mean, and like I didn't I was a Nirvana fan, but I wouldn't say I was like totally immersed in that culture at that time. And so the girl thing like how big of a star he was, and that blew me away. He's like running around the thing. And then they did Hero and Chad Smith and him were playing drums together. That's like, all that stuff is incredibly formative. I saw the Chili's in this awesome We played a NASCAR event. We were on tour with Train. This is I don't know, eighteen years a long time ago, and we're playing the infield of a NASCAR event. But they Chili Peppers played to the grandstand right before they started and there was only like three hundred people between the stage, and then there was the track behind us in the grandstand right and they come out and do like four songs and it's four TV. But it's like the most energy I've ever seen anyone put into a show in my life. And I'm only there with like three other people. It was I mean, I'll never forget the way Flee came like this, just the it was palpable, you know, just like that sort of anyway, they got me excited for second stuff.

00:27:10
Speaker 2: Now, I I think when you mentioned the Food Fighters for me, I always I'll use the word I feel bad. But Dave Grohl is such a monster superstar now for food Fighters, for just the food Fighters. But people so much want to talk about Nirvana with him. Yeah, when by the way, he was like the fifth drummer. Sure he joined right when Nevermind the album was about to and he was very much a part of that three or even four piece. If you include Pasmer, you know with the band, but what he's done with Food Fighters it's not really paralleled with American rock music in the past twenty five thirty years. But because he was the drummer in one of the most yeah influential bands of a decade, he still is like the drummer of Nirvana and the lead singer of Food Fighters, where he basically has two Hall of Fame careers by themselves, and the Food Fighter one might actually be No, it is bigger. It's just I watched.

00:28:07
Speaker 1: The little documentary they did the Food Fighter's thing like that. I can't remember what it was called, but it shows all those him playing that first tour. They're playing like you know, First Have and all those kind of places, and then people are just yelling Nirvana songs like while he's trying to play the Food Fighter songs just to make me feel better. I like, you know what I mean, this guy had knew what he had and no one else like would give him time for I say, no one else, but there was still there was naysayers the entire time. That's comforting to me to know that, like, you know, whether he knew it was going to be as big as it was, Like I don't know, but just the fact that he stayed the course through all that. I can't imagine nothing that I'll ever face in terms of that will be as big as that, you know what I mean, Nothing will be as negative right in my face as that.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: When you're twenty five, let's say twenty three five, Where did you think this was going to get you? What was your prediction?

00:29:00
Speaker 1: But we're not, honestly, like, I don't know if I thought we were gonna be the biggest band in the world, but I had an incredible ambition at that time, and you know, very naive, and I didn't know any we like. We came from a small town, so so there were no other bands around us that we like. We were making every mistake possible we didn't and and so the good part about that was we have no comparison. For a long time, I didn't want to move to Nashville because of that. I felt like people would go there and they see all these other things, and then they feel lesser about themselves, and now it's not as confident on the road. Now it doesn't play in the Midwest as well. I always had that feeling. So I think for us, like there was this ignorance that I would have had at that time in terms of like what was possible, and so anything was and we really like in our little garage where we were practicing, we were like, this is the best, this is the best music, because anyone is making right now. So yeah, I definitely had that, and I think I was really naive to about the business side of of all that, like genres that we were talking about. And when we when we released the first record, we didn't have a Christian deal, Like, we didn't have anything in no business on the Christian side. When we saw with Atlantic Records, and then we because I had grown up like going to these little bookstores and listening to Christian music, you know, I was like would it be cool? Like should we put that in there for kids like us, you know, And and we went to the Atlantic president at the time and we're like, hey, would it be cool if we do that? He's like, I don't care. So I mean literally it was that simple of like. And then so we came down here the Nashville somewhere, It's like, hey, will you put this out? And then what happened was that first Christian single that they put out got bigger than the second one did first like oh wait, you know, Like so I was just naive at the time about what we were getting into. You know that, you know, we've learned a lot.

00:30:56
Speaker 2: But I think being naive but also having huge goals, if it's the right mix, it works awesomely. Because I was too dumbed to know what I was doing too, but I was smart enough to know that if I just went really hard at it, I was going to end up somewhere pretty good.

00:31:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know.

00:31:11
Speaker 2: What I was doing.

00:31:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. I love Well, I'll see that like I've got little kids now, it's like in the that sort of blind you know, there's there's an awesome confidence in that. You know that that's hard to get now. I think it's I think I have to really consciously get myself in a place where I'm making a record of like not knowing what the limitations are beyond it, or like how big could this record be?

00:31:35
Speaker 2: You know?

00:31:35
Speaker 1: All that stuff is really a work where I didn't have that. I walked into the room every day it's like we're about to make the biggest song in the world, and you know, this feels good. This is easy. So I feel like we're always trying to get back to that level of you know, blind confidence, which yeah, I do think it makes it art better.

00:31:55
Speaker 3: The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the Bobby Cast.

00:32:08
Speaker 2: How big an old boy are you?

00:32:11
Speaker 1: Oh what?

00:32:11
Speaker 2: How big old boy are you?

00:32:12
Speaker 1: Old boy?

00:32:13
Speaker 2: How big old boy are you? Yeah, I'm your aid to be your big old, big old boy.

00:32:16
Speaker 1: Oh I'm six six feet No, that's it. Yeah, my shrinking. Maybe it's the boots.

00:32:24
Speaker 2: Is that okay?

00:32:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, Boots.

00:32:26
Speaker 2: Maybe it's because I knew you were a college football player and I just expected you to come in take control.

00:32:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:32:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're but the way one one ninety. That's pretty good.

00:32:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hefty.

00:32:35
Speaker 2: You still hit it pretty good. No, it's not. It's good. Like I have to go hard all the time to even just maintain whatever this is.

00:32:43
Speaker 1: It's the opposite for me. I think I'm like, I'm I'm pretty Uh. I love ice cream a redneck when it comes to that stuff like I was just raised like that, you know, pizza, bagels and all that.

00:32:53
Speaker 2: Oh, I have like therapy, did not drink four three letters mountain do a day? Yeah, like we sit in it, Yes.

00:33:01
Speaker 1: And so that, so now I have to kind of like I have to take my breaks with that. And also after I got done playing football, working out was the last thing I ever wanted to do again. I wasn't, so I mean I was a mess. I didn't, you know, the first ten years of our career, I wasn't. I was skinny, but like the unhealthy soft kind of like.

00:33:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm skinny, but like he pushed me, and it's like that's not loan, bro, that's like skinny. So you played wide receiver?

00:33:29
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:33:29
Speaker 2: Good? How good a high school player? Were you good?

00:33:32
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, all state or something like that. I don't know. Something it was, it was, it was, I was. It was a time when wide receivers were this is too football for.

00:33:42
Speaker 2: This, but it's not.

00:33:43
Speaker 1: But it was a time when wide receivers were like six five well in Florida State and all that were really big. Every kid was six five sixty six. So like I got offers of D one stuff, but it was all like Miami Ohio or Rice or Duke or all that kind of stuff, and none of those teams were good at the time. And so that the reason I ended up going to firm was like if I'm gonna go to a smaller school as well go to a good one. I had enough sense to like, if I'm gonna get out of this small town, I probably need as many resources as possible. So that's kind of what led me there. But yeah, I think these days I would have had to pick like I was good enough high school player that and speed wise that like I would have had gone anywhere I want. You think, it's just change, It's changed totally, Like there wasn't slot receiver idea.

00:34:27
Speaker 2: You know, well you're like a high energy, high motor guy. So what i'd say about white guys high motoring.

00:34:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, I was definitely over the middle guy, I'll give you that. But really at the beginning, I was like a four four guy. So I was like, outside speaking, you can run four four yeah, and and uh so, and I would track. I ran track at firm into so like I was just I was a fast guy. Really, but just that that position didn't really that you know, like Wing Crabett and all those guys like they like opened that up. Now every receiver, every team has a guy like that just wasn't the thing when I was playing.

00:35:03
Speaker 2: But especially like the slot yeah, you know the Edelman's.

00:35:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's small routes.

00:35:09
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, it's extremely valuable, but can catch. But it sounds like you're faster than even those guys.

00:35:15
Speaker 1: For four.

00:35:16
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play quarterback in college. Thought four four is rocket?

00:35:20
Speaker 1: What can you do?

00:35:20
Speaker 2: Now? Can you do four? Right now?

00:35:22
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I do not share a hamstring about race like that. Yeah, it's embarrassing.

00:35:29
Speaker 2: Now do you play ball at all? What do you do recreation?

00:35:33
Speaker 1: I like golf. I mean I'm getting into it. I mean I've always been into it somewhat, but like now I've like, you know, Ben's one of those guys. He's always like he's annoying. Yeah, but when we toured together, we were really competitive at the time, and and I'm very proud of the the fact that, like I took a lot of his money when he toured with us. Then good yeah yeah, but now he would he would get.

00:35:54
Speaker 2: Yeah he's really good.

00:35:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's annoying, it is.

00:35:57
Speaker 2: And I'm like, so he's like, just we're playing, what do you mean you just started playing? Like a play I'm not as good as he's really good. Yeah, it's stupid.

00:36:03
Speaker 1: Well, you start video and you're swing and all that. It's like a different that I don't get you better.

00:36:08
Speaker 2: I got a track man in here right an better we went. We played a tournament at the same time. It was Tomlins Chris Tomlin's charity to tournament down at.

00:36:17
Speaker 1: OH four others was that Triuba door that's it.

00:36:20
Speaker 2: Tribu And I did this bit at the opery when I I was doing stand up over there and I was talking about that and I looked at the entire list and I was the least famous celebrity on the list. It's a bad place to be whenever the people that you're with or like, when's our celebrity getting here? And you're the celebrity.

00:36:36
Speaker 1: I've been that many.

00:36:38
Speaker 2: So and I was talking about that, and I was like, man, getting me at a celebrity golf tournament. It's like, you know, going on a a safari and seeing a horse.

00:36:49
Speaker 1: A horse anyway, you know.

00:36:52
Speaker 2: But I remember seeing you, seeing you were playing that too, and could you have a name that sticks out?

00:36:59
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:36:59
Speaker 2: Right, so, and then I remember seeing you warming up and you look like an athlete. So I didn't want to be your friend. I just stayed away from you. You completely because I like to be the off in my group. Yeah, I don't think that would be. That's the case if you me and so are you a good golfer? Now can you play?

00:37:15
Speaker 1: I can play. I'm a nine right now. You better than I.

00:37:18
Speaker 2: I'm an eleven.

00:37:19
Speaker 1: That's okay, that's playing. My thing is like, you want to be able to play fast so you can play with people. I think that's the you know what I mean. But now I've got too many of my friends. I've gotten good and that and that.

00:37:31
Speaker 2: Too many your friends at too much time, and I'm too competitive. Yeah, I know me too. I hate everybody. I hate myself when to them playing golf, I hate everything, but I keep going back. It's the one thing that I want to get better at that I really don't. I can feel like I'm getting so much better and then I go out on a Tuesday and I'm awful. I'm like, what just happens was a mental thing?

00:37:48
Speaker 1: Yeah? Everything for me is so team I think is like football and then and the band thing is very much like that that golf. For me, I like playing myself almost the most, and it's because I'll actually celebrate a shot when by myself. I'm quiet with other people. I'm never gonna be like but I'm by myself and I hate a good one. I'm like bear, yes, I'm like you know what I mean, I'm having a moment with myself. It's like therapy to me. It's like finally I can I can applaud myself or something. So I do like that element of the singular. There's no one to blame.

00:38:19
Speaker 2: Do you get I'm gonna use the word flat because my wife doesn't really care. But sometimes if I'm gonna go play a quick round, it's still six hours before i'm back.

00:38:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you have kids.

00:38:30
Speaker 2: I don't have kids. Is it ever like yo, dude?

00:38:32
Speaker 1: Yeah? Sometimes honestly, so this is true. Like a couple of years ago, I went to I was at a therapy session. He's talking to me about all kinds of what do the activities you do that give you life and all that kind of stuff, and I literally is like, oh, I've been playing golf on myself recently, and he was like, you should do more of that. And I came home with my wife and she was like, I'm in, you should do more of that. So maybe he should use that you know, doctor, Doctor, I said, if I'm gonna be well good husband, this is what it takes.

00:39:02
Speaker 2: So she's like, no, you wrote this, yea, trust me, trust me. So the new record is coming out of September. So Caves, I don't know, give me why Caves. Is there some sort of deeper meaning about Caves?

00:39:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's more and more I understand this, like because it's so cyclical, like when you're working on a record. To me, the artist's job at least, you know, as I see it, is that that you go into this some sort of subconscious place when you're trying to like you know, I'll use the word universe from it of like you're just trying to like receive and process this information and you try to stay there longer than most people would want to. I don't buy into the idea like you got to have a crappy life to have to write good songs. I don't buy into that at all. But I do buy into the fact like when those things happen, you need to marinate longer. And so that's what the Cave represents to me of kind of like it's really the song is you know, the line is coming out of the cave. That's what's really about of like, Okay, we've spent this time together, we process all this stuff, we put it on paper. We don't know what it is here you go, and now we're gonna all celebrate this together. So I think that's where it came from. And then yeah, the record is really interesting. Like we've always had a chip on our shoulder, I think because of being from a small town, all the Christian thing, all that. I feel like early on our careers, like everywhere we went, you know, we just had this angst about like we're about to dominate this. You know, it just looked and I feel like this is the first record, in my opinion, where we were able to get out of our own way in that way. Because what I look back and I go, wow, that's I can see that sort of like ego thing dripping into this song has no place there. It's not it's not serving this song at all. And and so I think when I hear it back, now that's what that's the takeaway I have from the record, which of just like there's a little bit of a freedom there. It's thankful, which is different for a rock and say probably just in the sense of like we get to do this, like we get to put the stuff out into the world and people appreciate it at whatever level that is. I think that's probably surprising to me, after all we've been through that, like we still have the opportunity and the sort of creative freedom to do it.

00:41:18
Speaker 2: Are you surprised you guys are still together?

00:41:20
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, now I can see it going a lot longer, which is crazy, But there was, I mean ten years in our career we had just an absolute meltdown of all kinds for probably two to three years of just like personal relationships are going to crap everything in the band. It's like my brother was in the band at that time and it was really rough and both of us were not good humans anyway. You know, at the time, we're just like really struggling with all kinds stuff. And then so it was separate dressing rooms. It was there's no encouraging word before the for the show. It's it's it is, just get through it, whatever it takes. At the same time, you have this crazy ambition driving everything that's not feeding the yard at all. Just it's absolutely like if we go harder, if we go harder, you know. So yeah, I think I think it was a time there for a while, Like I was sure it was over, and she was like, well, we'll just play this next tour and see how far it gets. So I'm yeah, I'm surprised.

00:42:22
Speaker 2: I was talking to Kicks Brooks, who's half of Brooks and Done. He was talking about playing a show and him and Ronnie weren't getting along and they had just been I mean, they're killing They had twenty number one to be doing in fifteen years or so. They just were not like any relationship, Like I mentioned earlier, it's not just a band, it's my friends do a radio show. It's husband white relationships. Anything has to be nurtured and you have to go through the bad times to make the good times even better. And it's a lot of survival. And he was like, we just want to do it anymore. Martle Haggard was like, hey, don't be an idiot, like you see all those people here. Yeah, he was like, you got to figure that crap out. And so they broke up. Yeah, but he always remembered that and they ended up getting back together. And I was like, man, we don't even feel like we really missed a beat, but he was like if I could tell people now, like it's like figure it out, go away if you need to, Yeah, get therapy for you, get therapy for other people, and then but stay together because of what they had with each other. And what you guys have is so rare, regardless of the relationship and how it is perfect, to actually find a unit that can do what you've done is so rare.

00:43:24
Speaker 1: I think it's easier now knowing like being able to value that or like seeing what we have. There was a time there where it felt like, you know, even though the thing was big, there was like some other future thing that we were trying to be that we weren't yet. So there was always this like frustration that I didn't I don't think I could feel back then that I feel now. So it I mean it's part of this aging obviously, or just like kind of getting some perspective.

00:43:50
Speaker 2: Do you feel like TikTok's been good for you and not so far?

00:43:54
Speaker 1: Not so far? I don't hate it. I'm I think of it as like the new like when I think of like the what was the Wonders movie?

00:44:01
Speaker 2: Was that like yeah the Wonders, Yeah, that thing you do.

00:44:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. So like when that song plays on the radio and they go running out in the street, like our careers changed. That's happening out on TikTok, you know. And it not just debands like this now a coon thing that's happening. I feel like this kid in town, Stephen Sanchez, like I'm watching, I'm watching actually good artists be discovered that way. Yes, there's a ton of other crap on there too, but I do think that's incredible and that's going to drive art in the future. It just feels like to me, like a kid can go like it doesn't matter where I'm from. I've got a chance. If I got something to say and it connects, then this is a vehicle to get it there. So I don't hate it.

00:44:40
Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter a genre you are either know a content great example, what is he bluegrass acoustics singer songwriter?

00:44:47
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is it?

00:44:48
Speaker 2: But he's just so good?

00:44:50
Speaker 1: Great? Yeah, and and and it's just it just like speeds that process up so much. It's like then it becomes like who the label is and all that? Does that really matter?

00:45:00
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:45:00
Speaker 1: Like so but we came in. It's so like when it was like the beginning, and everybody's just doing dance videos and stuff, and that was like so off brand for us, Like even smiling was off brand really at the time. And I was just so the idea of like, you know what I mean, just like, oh, we're gonna get on making cheesy video. It's gonna make it's going to undermine everything we've said and done up until now. Now that it feels like more creative in the sense at least we can put the music on there stuff. I don't. I don't sort of mind that part. But like chasing algorithms and stuff is I mean, it's not for me, actually, you know that's really that's it's definitely somebody else's job. I can't.

00:45:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And I think the people that ended up setting the algorithms are the ones that don't chase them.

00:45:42
Speaker 1: Right.

00:45:44
Speaker 2: But when I think of you guys as music, I can just see a lot of people finding you guys and enjoying it with no expectation because you're just swiping. I mean, there's an artist that I love, Jackie Vinson's a blues artist from Austin, Texas, and I just I watch a videos. I'm just I'm just blown away, right, Yeah, I would have probably not discovered her other than it's kind of like the other music that I listened to, Yeah, and I didn't have to know much about her to enjoy what she does. And I can feel that with a lot of artists where it doesn't matter if you know what kind of music they're doing. What does that even mean? What kind of music they're doing? Yeah, it's just a place where if sonically it kind of fits into what you already liked. I could see you guys like really really thriving in that space to people who like, I don't know how to how to explain your music, but like really authentic instrument based yeah, strong vocals type stuff.

00:46:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's I mean, I think that's we're trying to learn the language now. It's like when we first got into it, there was you know, you get these partners to help you do it, and it's like now you're doing exactly like some other artists did it as a work, and so it's the same way your live show is or the records are or whatever. You're trying to get a voice on there. And I think for us that's probably the period of time we're in where we're kind of like beating up the people that work with us on it to go, like, dude, if we're going to do a good acoustic version, put us somewhere good, and don't you don't need to record this ninety seven times to get the good Let's just get one great take of it that'll take five minutes. Let's put that up like that. So I think that's yeah, we're just struggling with that a little bit, but we're certainly using it more and thinking of it more as an outlet than we ever have.

00:47:26
Speaker 2: This record you did in two phases in my right, One yeah, Utah, the other yeah Minnesota.

00:47:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:47:32
Speaker 2: Well why Honestly.

00:47:35
Speaker 1: The I just had a buddy who had a house in Utah, and I want we wanted to do a mountainhouse, somewhere we could get away, we wouldn't see people, and and it ended up being the perfect We were trying to do demos, we weren't trying to make the record. We we'd like take a makeshift studio in there, and then we got back We're like, this actually sounds really great. We should build on this. And then the Minnesota thing we went Actually Nirvana had made a record there. The package was a studio, but we wanted a place where we could stay. So there's a house next to the studio. It could just like you know, get away. We end up working on the record for a year and a half, so it's not like all happens in those ten days, just the bulk of the recording does. But I think the I think trying to let everybody have a voice in there is incredibly important to a band. That's what makes it a band. I always was like, it las up, one's not good if one of those guys not in it. That's the way good bands ought to be. If you look at a band, you go, oh, let's yeah, I'll take a leave two of those guys, what really is it? And so and I think getting to a place where we can not have a credit based situation, you know, that's hard with bands, that's you know, the easiest thing to do is like, well I wrote that part I got It's like, now, I don't know on this record, whose idea? What was you know? I'm writing most of the songs bring them into the band. But other than that, in terms of the production, everything it's really really organic. So we're putt like we're writing bass parts with the bass players, and there's no walls. Black people aren't showing up in different days and all that, which is just a healthy place to be, I think, and makes the best makes the best thing.

00:49:08
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

00:49:22
Speaker 2: Do you ever worry about writing the same song or doing the same album twice accidentally? But it's just so similar?

00:49:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really don't. I would say this because I'm not great with melody, which sounds weird to say. It's like people are like, you know, But the truth is, I'm not someone I always had a part time when they hit the piano, it's like sing this note. I was always like kind of finding it a little bit. So I don't have that sort of memory of melody as well on other people's songs. I've never I never did a lot of covers, like it's always takes me a second to get a cover in my brain and operate it.

00:49:56
Speaker 2: But even your music twice like you yeah?

00:49:58
Speaker 1: Like now that.

00:50:00
Speaker 2: I mean, that's mostly what I'm asking more than accidentally writing anybody else's song. Are you like I feel this way? And I felt this way five years ago. I just want to write the same exact thing about me feeling this way.

00:50:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably, but I don't really. The thing about it is, it's like you find out, like just like you brought up your three favorite songs, like that wouldn't be like our three most popular songs. So it's really hard to see when a song is going to impact. I think if it's worth writing that day, it's worth writing. I do think in terms of I've been surprised and blown away by how something little will feel fresh to me about the thing. It's like I want to write a verse where there's a little more spacing between the phrases. That's it, Like, there's no that's how simple the idea is. That gets me going that day, and then it becomes this other thing that's never stopped. First summer I can write, I mean during COVID, I think I wrote like eighty songs in a year, just like every day, just pumping out by myself, and every single day, within twenty minutes there's like a new angled to something that I feel like I've never done before. At least that's what it feels to me. And maybe that's just because I'm not a good you know, like I'm I'm really thankful that I'm not so good of a musician, Like you know, is there some guys that just hear that, Oh that's the same progression from that song. That's and that's knowing way too much to me because I wanted to feel new to me when I did it. And if later somebody says it's that, I'm like, so what to me? When I was making it felt it felt really fresh?

00:51:26
Speaker 2: Well, so how did the music thing happen with you?

00:51:28
Speaker 1: Be?

00:51:29
Speaker 2: Like, for example, like a Sam and I'm gonna lump unfairly all you football players that I'm jealous of and that are big, muscular and cool in one group, like Sam, chase yourself, we keep going forever. There's a lot of athletes that turned Jake who wasn't football, but Jake Owen's a really good friend of mine who was a golf Yeah, they all got hurt and they were like, I guess I'll do guitar and next thing you know, they're a star. Yeah, where did the music come? In your version of this story?

00:51:58
Speaker 1: It was always going, which is I say a sixteen I started playing guitar and writing songs. I started writing right away, and when I went to college, luckily there had been a guy on our football team on that same team that played music before me. They kind of loosened up the coaches to the idea that like, maybe that's the thing, and they gave me lots of like you used to call me Sunshine from remember the Titans. I don't know, is that right with such on Ryan Gosling or another blond kid that looked like I think it's a different blonde kid.

00:52:27
Speaker 2: I just love Gosling. He's everything to me.

00:52:29
Speaker 1: I have not Actually it's perfect that too, But so I think that they like gave me a hard time. But I was playing probably fifty sixty shows a year when when I was playing college school. So I would get picked up. We would do all the off season, we would practice and I would drive forty five minutes of this prehearsal space for ad we did. I would get picked up after a game on a Saturday afternoon. Instead of riding the bus home of the team, they would let me get in the van with the band and go play.

00:52:56
Speaker 2: That's a big deal. I mean I don't know a lot of coaches.

00:52:59
Speaker 1: Yeah it's not. Yeah, totally. It was a real and and they liked it, and I would like play for the team occasionally and all that, So yeah, it was always alongside it. I think I knew by the time I got to college, I knew that music was it, like that was my thing. But I loved playing foot I still love watching it and all that, but I knew that's where I was headed, and it made it easier of a decision. Like whenever I got done with college, all these agents started calling. You know, it's like, you know, you're gonna work out for this team, You're gonna do this, blah blah blah, And I was. I was so beat up. I mean, I was not. The thought of doing another year of that was like, I mean I was. I couldn't even imagine, like I would have sucked, you know, It's like there's no way. So that made it an easier decision. But I think I knew in the back of my mind anyway, it's like, as soon as this is, as soon as this chapter is over, music is it.

00:53:47
Speaker 2: Did you put that competitive drive because obviously your body's hurting, like you said, or just worn out, you know, playing football that long at that level. Do you take that competitive drive and just go now it's in music, yes, I'll put it here.

00:54:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and really good and bad ways, like you know, it's still great. Like I feel like in the show, like we I feel like we go hard and I feel like I just I come off the same way aftergat like the same. I feel like that after a show. I just feel like there's just a physicality to it. But the the like I used to make the band watch tape like we first got to go.

00:54:20
Speaker 2: On and you imagine like that's funny.

00:54:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean seriously, it was like see that bong goes so that sucks, you know, like it was very like you know, and but it would put these guys on the spot like wait, I just you know, like we made twenty bucks, like what are we doing here?

00:54:36
Speaker 2: So we wanted to wait too?

00:54:37
Speaker 1: Seriously funny as it is like you're driven to get better. Yeah, And I think that's the thing, like it just art obviously is a different thing. So there's a there's a care and sort of you know time it takes to do it that you don't you know, get to explore football. But so yeah, good and bad, there's that I had to learn those lessons early on about like when to push and when not to. But I would say that we definitely have that mentality when it comes to rehearsals and shows and all that. Just we're carrying a lot of that in.

00:55:05
Speaker 2: There my head. I played football too, probably better than you were, but anyway, I wash my our football coach. He finally discovered he could take a marker and actually ride on the TV, and so he draw it the first time. He was like, discover the new world because he did it, and he was like, oh guy wiped it off.

00:55:21
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, now we have a weapon.

00:55:24
Speaker 2: It was the worst because, for example, I played wide receiver and let's say I missed like a cracked back block, right, Yeah, okay, so I'm supposed to take the linebacker out. Fine, I missed the block. So he'd go, he'd circle me on the screen, draw the arrow. Why didn't you do it? Rewind it? You're doing it again. Rewind it. You know you're showing the same playover again. Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it again, Like freaking relax.

00:55:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had he was intents in college. I remember that we had the whole team on Sundays after a game get in a film room, and they would do special team stuff. And that's where like that separates me boys like running down a kickoff from that kind of thing that is bad news. It's and if you avoid a collision for some reason or missed the block or whatever. So he had a laser pointer, you know, he would do that and they would make that guy stand up right. The whole team's in there, ninety guys in there, and he would be like, do you think you're earning your scholarship? Do you you are better than this? Don't you think? Do you think you're better than this? Do you think you're worth standing? But that kind of like he would just give it, and uh, I'll never forget that.

00:56:25
Speaker 2: Is disciplined part that you were talking about too. You say, are you handle it differently? Sure, but some aret is not disciplined. And I think I was able to bring a lot of discipline from me playing sports into a creative field where maybe I my touch I wasn't as general at times, right, but I definitely even though I was a little too rigid, I definitely had discipline, right, So I got the benefit.

00:56:50
Speaker 1: Like you're saying, it comes down to to me, it comes down to ownership. Like there's just I mean, that's culturally not very like a thing right now, because it seems like but that's that's I was always like with them, dude, if you make a mistake in there going full speed and it's not mental, I don't, We're not. No one's gonna be like that's not that's it. But come back and be like I blew it. Here's why it won't happen again.

00:57:11
Speaker 3: You know.

00:57:11
Speaker 1: It's like we have that sort of culture where guys like feel like I can lean on. We're all going out here together. And if it's the same, I would tell the crew guys that all the time, like this is such an important thing that we do because in that night, nobody knows you played the night before. They don't know that this is a small shy all that kind of But if we all go out there, spend all this money, the buses go there, then the MIC's not plugged in, you know. It's that's where it's owners, own your job, do your thing, and and yeah, so I think it's it's definitely beneficial if you can do it in a you know, in a gracious way, in that way where it's like I'm not browbeating dudes because they're because you make mistakes and shows like that's the way they would laugh about it. But it's if it's a mental thing or or lack of preparation, then I've got problems.

00:57:52
Speaker 2: I would agree. I think the same thing with with my crew. But I wasn't good at dropping a ball and then forget about it. Took me a couple of plays. Could you go? Could you turn the page quick?

00:58:00
Speaker 1: Uh? No? I still I think I could. I could play through it. But I still when I wake up when I think about college that mostly I think about that, I think about the two or three plays I wish i'd back.

00:58:14
Speaker 2: It's almost like social media, too, where we only look at the two or three really negative comments instead of the five hundred awesome ones because I'm guilty of that going just instead of allowing the love, which I shouldn't really invest. I don't look at comments a lot. I do occasionally, but it's the same thing.

00:58:32
Speaker 1: Let rip your heart out. I remember the bad ones, and.

00:58:35
Speaker 2: I should either look at it objectively and go, let's look at the percentage of how I should feel right now. If the percentage has I sucked, then I should really feel that way, but I don't in the same way that you just said. You still think back up mostly about that, Yeah, what does that have to say about us as people?

00:58:51
Speaker 1: M I don't, you know, like I don't that part obviously because I don't have to play football anymore. It does it. It's not one of those things like really I feel like lives with me in a bad way. So those those those really will hurt for a bit. And I have to almost not do it at all, I mean, because inevitably it's just it's just it's what what taught me this even more, it's like so during the COVID thing, we we had one of the first tours after that, and the thing like sells great because that's all this anticipation, not like now when everybody's out at the same time. This was like a windows the first time we played Bridgetone, like I was like this is and and we was reading other comments and it was all about mass no masks, mandates in the city, that's it, and it's just like getting slammed. How could they possibly they say they're this. It was just terrible. And then I would play the show and be like if I hadn't read that I'd have the zero clue that exists. It's such a small percentage of the people out there. So I think that was freeing to me after that experience of like because I was really going to that tour just every night just feeling the sort of crazy waight about how we made the right decisions. She'll we out here, should we be doing some making some sort of stance you know that, Like, no, we should be playing because that's what we do. Like it's given as many people opportunity to see as can. You know. So yeah, that helps I feel like I've taken that into this into consideration at least as we're doing now. Helps kind of take the sting out of it.

01:00:17
Speaker 2: Last thing I'll say about this, there's a you know he talked he's the sports talk guy TV and radio names is Nick, right, And he talks about how he doesn't go look at comments anymore because he doesn't want to go and feel worse or feel bad for no reason, because that's the only place he goes where people telling me sucks is right online, Like he can look at every other element of his life. People are not at the airport, right, Yeah, he said, the only time you ever feel like lesser than is if I go searching into the comments, he said, So I just don't do it because there's no benefit for me there, because I'm not going, hey, I'm asking a question, Please give me constructive criticism on this, he says, there's nothing constructive there, So I stay away from it because it's just not healthy for me. Yeah, and the only place that makes me feel worse is in that in that section.

01:01:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that, I mean, I think that it's easy. I can't remember the cause I heard a quote the other day about about the idea of like it's easier to buy this sort of to get into the bitterness and buy this dark story, which it really isn't a dark story, you know, like that's just that's not what we're living. For some reason, we attached to that part. And I have the saying, I don't know, you do like the good compliments don't help. I agree. When I look at those, I'm like, yeah, yep, that's a yes, that's a yes. That's like expectation already. So now the first one that actually does anything triggers me at all is the negative one.

01:01:38
Speaker 2: That's a good point too.

01:01:39
Speaker 1: Mike, am I really walking away from this feeling great about how everybody loves the record. When they say that, I.

01:01:44
Speaker 2: Don't even take compass from my wife very well, because I feel like, why are you telling me this?

01:01:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't.

01:01:50
Speaker 2: My wife does not think I'm that funny. I think she did, but now she's with me all the time, and I think she's she's seen the Dog and Pony Show the times, so it's just not that funny to her anymore. Yeah, well, she's still so funny to me, and it's annoying in your relationship. Does your wife still like to hear you sing?

01:02:08
Speaker 1: I think so. I think so, But it's definitely but going back and forth, I've probably written her like twenty love songs over my career, you know, Like I mean literally just every year or two. You're like, I'm gonna try to gain and there's nothing worse than like, you know, I'm always playing it to her when she's distracted. I just wrote it. Now, she's like putting her makeup on the bathroom or whatever. I'm like, what do you think about this? She's like, I don't know. Could you just play to me later?

01:02:32
Speaker 3: Like?

01:02:32
Speaker 1: Is that? So? There is an element which I appreciate that level of like coming home, and she's been more disciplined about which her whole thing now is like she only listened to it when the record's done. She's like, no demos, I don't want any of that. Don't tell me because then I'm just gonna be pissed that it doesn't sound like that on the record or whatever.

01:02:50
Speaker 2: She gets demois for you.

01:02:52
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, she found some like so now now she really it's really refreshing to me when we do put a record. When I hand her the like sort of finished copy, she spends time with it way more than me, and she's incredibly encouraging about it, which is awesome to like see what a real fans experience is of that. But yeah, she doesn't think. We did interview recently together and she was like she we left, she was like, it's so weird that they think you're cool. She's like the way they're talking about she like like you're interesting or something.

01:03:22
Speaker 2: So that's final three questions. I'm just staying on this. What I do really like about my wife is that she I know what she's going to give me is always her truth. So as much as I'm like, she doesn't think I'm funny. I think she thinks I'm funny, but I got to really impress her to get impressive results from her and is sometimes irritating as that can be to me, that's what I want, Like I really want that because I don't want her, Oh that's really good when she thinks, actually not that good. Like I need somebody to be that person. Yeah, it got to mean something that I can go to and if they say it's good, I believe that it's good. And I think my wife is that It sounds like over the relationship yours is the same line.

01:04:02
Speaker 1: I think we help. It's I mean, this is a weird way to say it, probably, but it helps. You need you need to find the things like for me, like what I like about a performance is not what she likes about it, and it's important for me to really get that in my mind. Like I need to feel success about Like one Off's really hard for me because my voice is so loud and I don't talk loud. It's like next, so I've got to really ramp up is sing a whole. So if I go to a one off show, I feel like a million dollars. If I gave a great performance and it was like, really, but that's not something that she's gonna care about. So I have to really like almost delineate those and go like, here's the things for me that I feel really proud of. They are the hardest work and I know why. And then I kind of have to so some of those other things, like like an album, like hey, what do you about this out, like what do you think that? I can kind of like reserve that for her. It helps balance out so I'm not looking for her then now to like say, hey, that was so good I you did that one off show that I've seen a million times, you know what I mean. I've got to like celebrate my own sort of victories in there.

01:04:58
Speaker 2: Question two of three. I don't know you're gonna put any music out, and I know we talked about genres, but will you target anything toward any traditional genre based that's not Christian?

01:05:11
Speaker 1: Probably it's gonna be mister remains to be seen a little bit. But I think we put a couple of country artists on the record, and that's because there was a time, like, you know a few years ago, I was looking at like the Coachella lineup and then like let's, uh, tele blanking on the name Stage Coach. I was like, we would much rather play Stage Coach than Coachella. Like it just doesn't that doesn't even. So I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense. We moved and when I moved here five years ago, all these country artists came out of the woodwork of like, hey, I'm a big fan of the band, and that blew me away because I did not. I was not aware of that at all. So I think the idea of us, like I don't know that we'll go to like country radio with a song, but the idea that that genre is very wide open and so constantly changing. I feel like so much of that Zach Ryan stuff, all that like really singer songwriter stuff that's like somehow in the country world now is open to us. So yeah, I think I think that's an idea we had carry on the last.

01:06:07
Speaker 2: Record Old Dominion Carly Pearce around this record. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a that's not completely sonically and at least not vocally, but I mean, you guys an Old Dominion to me have similar Yeah.

01:06:19
Speaker 1: We met them doing Alman Brothers cover thing in New York. That's and so I didn't and they were fans of the band before. I didn't know that, but a similar kind of like this is a band, man, it's like a vibe.

01:06:30
Speaker 2: You say, vibe. It's just you guys have similar vibes and you're all individually extremely talented, but then collectively it's like the sum is greater than the parts that were already great. Yeah, with both groups.

01:06:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So.

01:06:41
Speaker 2: All right, last question here. And you didn't want to come to Nashville for a long time. What's up with you in Nashville now? You like it? I struggle at times, Yeah, but what do you think of the city?

01:06:50
Speaker 1: You know, it's so it's a complicated answer, but I love I love being here. I love living here. Family loves it here. That was a tough move. We moved from Charleston and my wife was like, what are we Why are we leaving the ocean? You know, but I've really felt like a definitely a better community than I ever had there, and some of my friends I've probably already lived here. You know, that was easy. The ease of like traveling has been easier. It's really interesting to me, like, you know, the Broadway scene is not my scene obviously, so there's certain parts of the pockets of the city. You know, even how how like staunchly conservative is at times that's a little like I'm like, that's abrasive to me. But what's been surprising, I think is that when I started, I signed a publishing dowh. I first came here because I like write some songs for other people, and I was like getting in these writing rooms and realizing how soulful the writers were. That was surprising to me. Like meeting like a Natalie Hemby, I was like, I can actually give her a piece, like I can I can bring this in and trust that she's gonna And so I found more and more and more of those people here and that's really surprising and fun. And then the you put in the fact that it's like the talent level on the hustle is cool to me because Charleston and me South in general was like very much like, well, go here for vacation. It's really it's a brunch spot. You know. It's like the fact that you can run into people that are just really trying to make it all the time and they've got a million things going. That's exciting for me. That's definitely where I want to be you know at this point in my life.

01:08:25
Speaker 2: Well, look at us, a Christian ar is in a DJ, just chopping it up both ways. Slap anybody who says that about it. A big fan, really big fan.

01:08:36
Speaker 1: Thanks.

01:08:36
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to the album September fifteenth, and I think you are you guys playing the show? Are you guys going to play the show? Do we know that?

01:08:44
Speaker 1: I don't know. I heard that that's possible.

01:08:45
Speaker 2: I heard that's possible too. I guess you and I are like that. Somebody said possible.

01:08:50
Speaker 1: I don't know.

01:08:51
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, a big fan. And are you are you guys playing in Nashville at all?

01:08:55
Speaker 1: Yeah? Bridge Stone, I wish you.

01:08:57
Speaker 2: Knew that you are doing to Nashville shot to date.

01:09:00
Speaker 1: Yeah that's cool.

01:09:00
Speaker 2: Well I will act like I'm gonna come Okay, Yeah, I don't know it. Now I've you guys are awesome live, and that's probably why I'm drawing so much to the live out. It's all coming to me now I've seen you live, so I think that's why I'm drawn to the live album so much. Yeah, I had breakthrough right here at therapy moment. I hear about need to breathe. You guys check out need to Breathe. It's just as they spell their band on Instagram and TikTok need to breathe. And if somebody spells it in lowercase, do you also want to punch them?

01:09:29
Speaker 1: No, that was a total marketing move. At the beginning, we thought it looked better and then we realized that on a festival lineup it would show up biggest still does. Yeah, it was brilliant.

01:09:41
Speaker 2: Very good to talk to you man too.

01:09:44
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production