7. Would Maddy, Meg and Jemma get into Oxford?

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of your Twenties at the Very Unprofessional Podcast, whereby your unqualified guide talk through some of the big life transitions in our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Welcome back everyone today we have some very special guests. If you'd like to introduce you as the office. I'm Maddie and my name is Meg. Oh good job. You know, for as much as you guys were talking before this, I didn't think it was going to be a struggle to say your own name. Made was going fast? Contacted? Really? I don't if I contact was you are going to go first? I thought it was you anyway. Miscommunication, guys, which is what we need to talk about. Good segue, Meg, She's um. This was kind of a spontaneous episode, basically the Glorious Maddie. She's back from Queensland. Excuse me, sorry, well she's back from darn but she had to travel through Queensland, Sunshine State, the Sunshine Stay, Yeah, to get to Canberra. And the other day she got back and she messaged me these really questions and it's not really like a typical episode, but I thought we'd answer some of them. Maybe we should talk about what these questions are. Oh no, I'm just an ad on by the way, thanks for yeah of a twenty something You're wrong. No, she just might ask me, so we thought we should. No, we value your insights. Um, yeah, no, I've found these questions on TikTok. There was this guy talking about like this college in Oxford. Um, it's just a residential college. But in order to get in, it's a very rigorous selection process and they make you sit for three hour exams I think twelve hours in total. Yeah, in total, it used to be five. And then you have to have an interview where there's like fifty people interviewing you, and they admit one to two people every year. It's really really selective. That's you're information is from TikTok. Why is it that selective? Because what do you get out of it? Oh, because you get funding to do research on whatever you want for seven years at Oxford at Oxford. Yeah, no, I a different you're emphasizing yes yet there huh. And then you're just living with other people doing their seven years of research. But if only do you get admitted, what about all those other people? Where do they come from from? The college must only have like twenty people. Yeah, but because you're there for seven years, you really it takes a long time to time fourteen people. So that's a pretty small college. It's a very small Maybe ways would work, isn't it? Okay? Second days? Maybe maybe when they set it up they were like, you know what, we'll be generous. Well, let like and then since then they've only been adding like one or two people, and it takes a long time to filter people out because they get seven years. Anyway, there's no seven years. Maybe they know. I think what happens is they have the people who like all the rich kids who have to pay, and then this is a scholarship for the ones who like can't pay, but probably rich kids still get it. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I mean I definitely could have looked at this college, like beyond the TikTok that I watched, who cares? And well, you know, I just want to fact check and not be a culprit of spreading misinformation. Good. So basically on this exam they ask a bunch of these like very abstract intellectual questions. Yeah, I think that questions that really kind of underpin the world humanity. Yeah, good things. And they're very like into like, very intellect like his different fields. And we thought we would answer some of the psychology questions and see whether Meg, Mattie, and Gemma would get into Oxford College. I really think that we would. Well, we'll have to see, but maybe we should, like probably, I should probably just give you guys more of an introduction. So tell everyone how we met, get them, get them familiar before we dive. So, Meg, how do we meet? Well, we went to be in g together, but we weren't friends. Yeah, and I think we both thought we hated each other. I remember you told me like I thought you hated me, and I was like, oh my god, I thought, Jemmy, you hated me. No, I was so intimidated by intimidate that's probably better word. Yeah, And then into so many strong friendships. Yeah, I thought you hated me at the and then last year, well, I don't even know how was it. I don't know, is it to Nail or Jasmine? Maybe we basically just hung out once it was here, I remember, and I was like, we had a good conversation in this lounge room of the street that let's not be named, in their house and it's beautiful. Is that where it was? And then we just a message saying I really enjoyed that. Good, I remember this. Okay, we actually talk about why we're doing that, because I really wanted, no, I know exactly what what it was. I drove you guys to mac h that that oh yeah, and then can I tell the funny story? Okay? So I was hadn't had anything to drink, so I drove them to me and two others and Jasmine and Aaron. Someone's birthday. It was someone someone's birthday, wasn't it. Yeah, it was Jasmine's birthday. Yeah, that makes sense. And it was a year ago based yeah, And so I drove them up to it. We got McDonald's and then I drove them up to black to Mountains and there were these two people having sex in a car and I was driving and Jasmine, I hate to call her out. It wasn't just Jasmine, it was all all of you guys just really wanted to see them having sex. We would drive we were doing this loop like three or four times. The windows were foggy, like I just felt so bad because we kept driving past their car. And every time we'd drive past their car Jasmine or one of you would be like slowed down. Yeah, we slowed down so much. I was at a stand still and you guys are just staring at this car. But that's how we met. Oh, you're gonna go back and find the Well how about while you do that, Maddie, how did how did we meet? Um? I think we had chats at the NG. Yeah, but I think we both did a lot of like extracurricular ship that like overlapped bossy bossy Yeah, um what else? And you're a very chatty, easy to talk to person. So yeah, I think you're really easy to start off a friendship with. And that's so nice. You're a good podcast statoo. Oh I found the message Actually wasn't that whelming, Like, it wasn't very like, but I think that's what stemmed our friendships. I hope the footdown when I don't know what that means. I was about my ex housemate, this satanic being who shall not be named, and I was, oh, yeah, I can't even Yeah, anyway, that's what did you say? I thank you, thank you had I fund the evening with you. Thanks for driving also, and then yes, this is really detailed, we might must know and we don't need to cut it out. If people are listening to this, they want to hear us. But also Meg and I lived together? Are we do we do? Yeah? Well the Anny ways, I was doing that Centain linkeding last night. It's like any of your housemates couples, like are you are you a couple with any of them? And it's just like there's like three questions like meaning the same thing, but they just wanted to check centinly oh sentient, Yeah, and you have you participating activities that you would call yourself a couple. So have you had sex with your do you live with them in the same room? Do you share expenses? There's so many questions about but we're not a couple. I don't think if that's I'm definitely open to having a conversation, if you know, if things shame. I actually think if that's a definition of a couple, me and Arianna would count as a couple. In sentient it is, Yeah, me and Arianna would literally count as a couple because we share expenses, like sometimes we sleep in the same bed, like have cuddles, Like oh yeah, they don't have anything like with the word like sexual in it. So maybe both of us are a sexual in their eyes. Okay, anyhow, let's move on. I think this podcast episode is meant to be However, to be honest, like, I just keep going, Well, we can stop it if you guys want, But to be honest, like, I just kind of just talk and there's a thing like it's kind of my podcast. So I'm kind of like, if you want to listen to this, you're happy to welcome to listen to this. But it's also more like a diary entry for me where I'm like the people I bring on a people that are really important in my life at the moment. Obviously guys are important to me. Stop. So it's like as much as people might get entertainment out of this, they can skip past this if they want, yes, but also a journal thing. Yeah, it's more for me, Like I know, my audience is not massive, Like, it's just more that I get to have these great discuss it's building, it's gradually increasing. But yeah, thanks for introducing yourself, guys. So let's answer some of these questions that Maddie found through her TikTok, some of the Oxford College entrance questions. I feel like this is just going to be more of a discussion, just because I feel like it's really interesting to offer different perspectives and like deep dive into Yeah, definitely, And I think that question is whether it's not really a right or wrong No, yea, So please think about it as well. Yeah, let us know. Send us a mesto on Instagram if you're woefully offended by anything we've said, or if you just have an edition, if you have an addition, if you agree with us. But if you just agree, we don't want to hear it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just going to block you spam. Yeah, Okay, Meg has the first question? Okay, yes, is the Internet changing the ways in which we think? Good question. That's a very broad question. I think it's obvious it is, but but then I think it depends on how you narrow it down, because like if you if you think about Internet as an isolated concept, it's also expanded the way we think about things as well. It's globalized like our world. But are we are we including like big data and algorithms into this question or are we talking more about like the immense accessibility of information that the Internet is facilitated, or there's that one example. Have you watched the Social your dilemma. Yeah, how like there's like if you are like far left or far right, and then you like that if I don't know how it is, if you vote or if you just follow a lot of like like far right politicians, then you get like into this spiral if you follow like center right, and then it takes you on a rabbit hole to an event you see other views. You can never see other views. So it's like, so it does kind of change the way we think because it's like now I feel like previously opinions were more up for discussion, whereas if you spend a lot of time on the internet, especially as we all did last year, when we all inside our homes, it's actually harder to get a diverse opinion on things, and especially like you can kind of cherry pick the information that you want rather than and also it's so accessible to find evidence for your own opinion, whereas previously you have to go read a textbook, you have to go to the library. But that's like, yeah, you're kind of forced to read more diverse. That's a good point though, because like I feel like with the Internet and like would you call technology coming on? I know, like the generations of like ten year olds now can't think for themselves because they've got phones to search up on Google. Like when we were ten, we fucking had us. We had to go out and like, you know, make up ideas. Yeah, literally we had to think for ourselves. And that's actually like I always think about this. I'm like, are we going to lose our like process of this is a bit you know what I mean? We can just search on Google, like get our phone literally in our pocket for like ten seconds. Yeah. Also it reduces how we entertain our how commy thinking is going to be. Like, actually, this can all be so summarized in the Netflix special. Yeah is that Welcome to the Internet. I watched it. I didn't know. I think, yeah, anything and everything all of the time. Yeah, that is the one that with the the well you yes, and I watched it, but I was like, oh, you were like, but I think that's a really good point. Also make kind of off like what you were saying, because there's more accessibility of information as well. It means that all these people who previously wouldn't have gone and read text books, wouldn't have gone and read gone and borrowed books from the library wouldn't have gone to like saloons or like gone into lectures or gone to university now actually have access to information. So it changes the way that we think in that like more people are actually like accessing information who previously wouldn't have. That's a good point. But then the downside of that is that the information that they're accessing can sometimes actually be les reduced cognition, because yeah, it's misformation. That's a completly other point. But yeah, Madie's got a She was like going, she's just sprinted. We didn't get any I do get criticized around here all the time. Yes, No, it just reminded me of this book that I'm reading at the moment by Thomas Friedman. R Thomas Friedman. No, No, he's American. Heals it's a very Jewish name. I actually know Milton Friedman. I got a guy sexy. But anyway, he kind of talks about the whole concept of the book is that technology is accelerating at a quicker pace than our kind of social ability and the ability of our institutions to adapt to those changes. And the section I was reading just this afternoon, so this is super wow. Yeah, weird and coincidental is about social media and the Internet, and he points out, no, no, no, I'm not going to read. Yeah, I'm going to read the entire book. Sit Down, ladies and gentlemen. This is the beginning of my career. Okay, okay, some sorry, But with the Internet, we don't know how to deal with rumors. Rumors that confirm people's biases are now believed and spread among millions of people. Second, we create our own echo chambers, which we've kind of touched on. A Third, online discussions quickly descend into angry mobs. For it became really hard to change our opinions. Is what you post online you're someone. Yeah, and on a bit of a tangent like the celebrities and asserting their political views. I feel like there's a bit of a discussion about this and people are like, oh, they should stand out for this issue and that not um whatnot. But I actually think it's really really hard to maintain your political integrity once you stand up for one thing. And yeah, the Internet preserve change. We actually humans hate change so like naturally because the change is hard, right as in like we all like I think, all three of us very but it requires new adapts. Yeah, Like change is good and we need it, but also like that actually, like the Internet kind of like makes us be more stagnant in a way because we like can't change what we think and change. I would actually disagree with you because I find that the algorithm just in like my personal growth has actually really adapted to the way that my life has changed. Like yeah, previously, like when I was in a relationship, I get a lot of like I'm just going to use the example of Instagram reels, like just because it's in my mind, like Instagram. So the Instagram algorithm almost I find adapts to what my interests are in the it kind of leads into that thing where I get a bit of an epistepic echo chamber because I just put this data in it. It just gives it straight back. Do you think that your echo chamber is better or more justified, because because it's but it's not if you think it's a more educated one. I don't, Okay, So that's interesting. So I think that the TikTok's and the reels that I get a like very spiritual, very new age that's what you're feeling at the moment, Yeah, very fitness orientated very like I said, spirituality, but I don't have much political content. But it means that if that's the main platform that I consume my news from on my media from, obviously I do like read the news and do other things, but like it's the main online platform I use. The only information I'm getting from it is just stuff that like reinforces all the things I already already yeah, already believe. But why did you get do you when that first come up? Did you search out? When was it you? Like I really want to get into Like no, it's like just one of them would come up, you like it, and then you know, in a couple of weeks two of them come up, like both of those. So it like adapts to the way that you're mindships, which I find good because if you have to search up in the first place, you know what I mean, Like if you've got so I've come back to camera and it's like a full new thing and I have to search out like you know what, not what TikTok is? You know, like those kind of like randomness any idea that I'm reenterating, Yeah from from like rural Victoria. Um no, I think that it's the thing where it's like, you interact with enough posts and like obviously occasionally you're going to like run across one that is like more it's fine, we're pouring someone, You're going to run across one that's more like and you're like, oh, that's interesting. And then so it builds to you. So but it's like both a blessing and a curse, and that the person I want to become is reinforced by the media I'm consuming. But I also see that if I was getting all of my media or my news content from my phone, from my from Instagram, from Facebook, how quickly it would be just to like slip into one category of And I think it's so insidious that you don't. It's very hard to have the level of self awareness require. That's a very good point, because my internet can really also, don't you think it's interesting in our conversation about the Internet, how immediately this conversation became about social media because we associate so many of the problems that the Internet is produced it is with social media. That's what about what about the Internet? Like more broadly, if we look outside of like the social media discussion, Yeah, I think also it's changed the way that we can receive answers. I don't know, it's funny because then I'm immediately going back to social media. Like it's changed the way that we receive gratification. So previously, if we had a question, if we were seeking knowledge, if we were seeking stimulation, it will take a bit more. But now we pick up our phones, we go on the internet. It actually makes that cognitive process. Like you were saying, man, yeah, a lot easy, a lot quicker. I so want to say it because I was just thinking with social like not just social with the Internet or any like news or evidence thing on on Google whatever, Like I think it really favors people who are more self aware of what you were saying, Maddie, and like intellectual, Like if I know so many people who have different like range of skills and arnas like you know, university and Caden stuff, and they like they get sucked in really bad and like scammed, Like that's a bad case, you know, Like it really the internet really Like I don't know, I just find it's really like what's the word doesn't not just like it, I don't know what the word is. Benefit it kind of like people who can get sucked in. But who depending on who you are, you know, like yeah, it favors people who are more like the other questions on this list was, um is do Internet users have equal equality? Equality equal? Not? No way? Think yeah what you're saying, Yeah, that's what that Also, it depends on what you use the Internet for, because I feel like it almost almost replicates a class structure that exists in real life. Like if use the Internet for academic purposes like we would be doing, or for research purposes, or for work purposes, you know, your experience with the Internet, you would probably see it more as a tool. Whereas if you were someone who is getting scammed, if you were someone whom perhaps the Internet is showing you all the things that you can't be, or you know, perhaps you're growing up in a rural community or in a poorer community, like the internet, yeah it would be beneficial to you, but it might also it's more just probably just be like a not entertainment, you know, like you just go on there to sddictive because you're not nothing else, You're real initially there's nothing to do, so you just literally what else is there to do? There's no like see, so you could say that it's changed the way that we think in that sense because people don't really have to sit with themselves, and that is such a big thing. I find that where you're like in a bad mood and you're like Instagram, we need to think of our own thoughts. But we all we can't remember. Like talking to a boss of mine a few years ago, and he was like quite a bit older, and he was talking about, like, um, breaking up with someone, and then they had to take a really long bus ride back to his place and it was like an hour and a half or two hours on public transport, and he had forgotten his headphones, and yeah, he was saying, you know, in hindsight, I'm actually really glad that I didn't have my headphones. I guess listening to music on Spotify is not really it's enabled by this thought. Yeah, I do that all the time. Like how much do we actually with the creation of the Internet. And I guess we could make the argument for radio and things like that, but now that it's compact, it follows you everywhere that we've got mobile phones and the Internet, it's like a distraction. Yeah, how often are you alone? And has it changed the way we if were like kind of going back to the actual question, like has it changed the way that we think? Like, yeah, has it made us less resourceful? Um? Well, because you know we have Google maps, yeah, fingertips and obviously there's a lot of dialogue about how it's changed our attention span. Well that's where I was kind of heading, is like I was thinking, we'll just then that just came up to me, like you know, the reason when I might get really anxious or like you overthink things, which is very common these days. Well, maybe that's because anyway, we won't go there, but like, is it because like if I use like the Internet and like Spotify music to like distract myself. But like you know, back in the day, back you know, forty years ago, how did people work with their overthinking thoughts? Like how do they work with their anxieties? I don't know. I just like that's like I'm really interesting with the anxiety thing because I think it's kind of ironic that the Internet really created a lot of services that should inherently reduce anxiety but have actually exacerbated it. It's like the self, what's the image the body? You know, body image and yeah, like things like that we're also Internet as a means for comparison with anything in your life. It's like we do kind of keep shifting onto social media means of comparison. But I actually might make an argument that it actually has improve the way we think because it's increased the possibilities that people feel they have. Yeah, that's a good point, but also it's expanded your worldview. It's back to like the spiral of like if you're aware of that, or if you go down the case like, oh, I don't like I see that skiing and unengotally like imagine there's like someone in you know, like we've been using this rural example because I feel like that's a real benefit for people who are in like centers of not the Internet is really useful for them. Imagine, you know, being able to see that like university is a possibility and not having to be connected with someone to the university. You know, there are scholarships like, Yeah, it's changed the way we think and that like it has expanded our options but also limited them or narrowed like home of the Mint to perhaps a specific thing when we think about political opinions, but it's also expanded how we think and that we see that more things are available to us, But I think at the same time it's a double edged sword and that we definitely do realize there's greater possibility, is almost overwhelmed with choice, but at the same time we realize how utter disposability. Oh, because I was wondering when this is going to turn like really existential. I learned that word in French last week. I think I can't say it's existentially You'll get there, but I couldn't. I had to search out what it was. Wait. Wait, back to Maddie's existential point. How disposable we are? Yes, because I think that a lot of a lot of labor can be really really easily outsourced through software through the Internet now, whereas previously that would have been sourced locally. Yeah. But also it's like that's allowed industry to expand and allowed production to expand. Very that's very capitalist. Yeah, but if we're thinking about like how it's changed the way you think, Like I think, if you were growing up pre Internet, you being kind of one of the best in your field, in your town or your city, your area, wherever you lived, like that was really impressive. Yeah, part of your identity impressive and um, yeah, but with the Internet now you're so much more aware of you know, the software developer on the other side of the world, who is better than Yeah, like it's more international. Yeah, yeah, it's not really at all related. What is It's like, you know, when like countries interfere, this is a whole different There are so many facets to this question when countries interfere, Like I don't like an example of like in the Middle East, when like American interfere, you know, like things like that. It's like globalization in that sense. Is that I don't really know much about this topic. But yeah, yeah, And because there's a question on this exam that was like is international development AID good? Yeah, like that kind of like because we're being globalized, that's able to happen. But also how does it is it used for manipulation as well, like foreign interest political reasons rather than just humanitarian Well, I feel like we're going in a rabbits off or should do next the next question? Okay, which question do you have? Meg? Well? Who asked that question? Do you want to ask a question? Maddie? Ye? Oh, actually I can I ask one. Yeah, this one's like a little bit misk Okay, it's kind of a bit of a change, and it's very same thing. Yeah, okay, who is the most overrated figure in your discipline? Oh? I think you're eager to talk about this the reason I ask it? Yeah, I just want to like talk shit about people in my side, not like people I know, but like in psychology and philosophy. But I think is so overrated. Like, Okay, firstly, Adam Smith, Like, oh my god, you know there is more to political thinking than some white guy who fucking Scottish. Is Scottish, why he was, why he was from Glasgow, he was on Calculi or something like. That's old. Well though he's dead yet I'm saying still alive, I'm saying century. Yeah. Like, I just think that, like Adam Smith is so overrated. Rational thought so overrated, the emphasis on self interest so overrated, and every single course I always learn about it, and I'm just like, really, can we retire the idea that this one person is like the forefather of every single economic and political thought that we've ever had. In his hair as well? Oh lame, He's like, I just I just feel like we need to have more of a diversity of thinkers. The other one who I really sorry, I'm just like kind of ranting. Say a quote from him, I think, yeah, all money is a matter of belief. Why is it about money? Am I just singing? He's an economist money, Yeah, so it makes sense. Anyway. He has a second Well, here's this huge emphasis on self interest, which I do think is rational, like to the belief, but just annoys me. I'm sure mad do you find this as well? With like Ppe, Yeah, I know, he's definitely hammad On Hammered. Yeah. The second one is like, there are all these psychologists who I just like, Hey, John Watson and Bef Skinner an example, Yeah, you know him right, I know him from she How do you know him from Shella Combs? John Watson? Who's that? He's like, I've not Sherlock t one b they live together. Oh that's cute. Yeah. Anyway, there's Arthur Conan Doyle, an overrated figure. Nont no, Okay, I'm learning so much. But yeah, there's also like this huge emphasis on like behaviorist psychologists in the field of psychology, and it really shits me because I'm like, every course you learn about it, it's like, yes, they understood how like behavior and learning occur, but like, can we maybe what's an example? Okay, so um, they have skinner did like these boxes with ruts in them, and he learned that, like I haven't known that yet, conditioned unconditioned stimulus. It's great, but it just gets like overplayed and it just feel like there are so many more creative ideas that have come out in the last like one hundred years or fifty years that are actually provided much better explanation than these experiments. And it's like, oh, I also just I think it's that general issue where I'm just like getting very frustrated that in a lot of my university courses they only teach about white male well research, isn't it? Like this is okay, this is another thought thought for my brother a bit, like the university is actually quite right wing, Like do you think yes, like the actual This is what he's I've thought about it a bit, but like like the actual, like it's a it's a huge structure. Of course it's right wing, you know what I mean, Like the actual it's right wing. I think no, I think like that. I don't know. This is like his random brain thoughts, but like the not the teaching because I'm doing various science, so that obviously isn't right wing, but like, um, the actual teaching style, I don't know, I'll have to do some more recent it's a conservative too. Yeah, yeah, it's like yeah, and like we're learning about Yeah, we're literally it's very repetitive and like it's structured. It's so structured, and it's all based on like ideas of like fifty seventy, even hundreds of years ago that haven't been corrected, haven't been changed even when they've been proven to be incorrect, even when better explanations offered, And a lot of these people are very like it's very conservative. They're all very traditional. I think. I do think the teaching is quite conservative, and that I don't think they've adapted to the needs of society and the kind of job market that we're entering, because they think that they universities are still somewhat living in the past where people were qualified with a certain skill and they use that skill in their career, which really carried them through a lifetime. Are going to have a lot of different careers and in order to stay up to date and and be kind of climb the ranks in whichever workforce you're in. It does require lifelong learning, and I don't think the university has adapted that, and I think they're conservative in that sense. But to go back to the original question, thank you for yes, who is an overrated person? You're in your discipline? Like, and I think you'll agree with me on this gamma because we both do ppe economics is really really outdated. Yeah, and so they still it's like my mom was showing me some of hers like rational man, rational economic man, like self interest. That's that's it. It's very very exclusionary find I know that, Oh god, you're absolutely right. And they teach these same models thinking that they've adapted. It's like these models were created like fifty years ago. Really really really outdated. Concept that stands out to me so much in economics is that when it comes to environment, there was the kind of traditional response to that was like, oh, well, the free market when when a resource is overused and overconsumed, the free market will naturally like redirect us to other sources of production and it doesn't understand the idea of like exhaustion or yeah. Yeah, and you're just kind of sitting there like, well, yes, it's our cohole industry. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, interesting all the other idea it's like, oh yeah, if we lose jobs in one place, they'll be created elsewhere. So yeah, everything always reaches an equilibriumrchment. But then you would use that argument in favor of free trade. Yeah yeah, but wait, what do you mean? So but then I feel like you're using it as a negative argument. I'm using it now. Well, what I'm saying is that it's not true, like especially in isolated industry industries or in an isolated community like Australia, whether like it suggests that when people lose jobs in one area, new jobs are always created elsewhere. So so we shut down skill set. That's what you were saying about their skill set, you know, four year old skill set. They only have like a sense right, we will be owing. Economics is very much like the market fixes everything, yes, itself, and those new industries, new avenues for disenfranchised people will be forced to open. And this is where you come to that big cleavage between left and right wing economics, because when you get on the left wing, it says no, no, no, you need the government at that point to step in and like offer offer opportunities for upskilling or reskilling so that people can have greater labor migration. Um. And so I think in really overrated person in the field of economics would be Gregory. Gregory Magory Manque. Yeah, he wrote we didn't do my chro economics in the same year, but he wrote the textbook that I used from Macro. Oh. Yeah, I didn't use a textbook because I was just like, this is all pretty simple. Yeah, no, that's fair. I received it. Also, you know what, I definitely done something that I would have paid money funny for. No. Also, I ask anyone who was also at the A and you when you watch an economics lecture, watch every single lecture. You would never see a picture of a woman. Dana Dana's lecturer. But I'm saying in the slides, yeah, you will never see a picture of a woman. It's all like, I don't know, I keep going back to this very feminist critique, but it's always you know, you know, how how the you know, when they thought of the concept of GDP, they did try to work out how to include domestic labor into that equation, but they were like, noah, it's too hard to measure. So they just didn't. They were like where I could ask, like I don't know someone who understands this, and they're like, no, no, we won't ask a women. The dramatic they weren't they they'd yes when they're not scientific. Yeah, exactly, just the academic in the kitchen sad speaking, which we probably need to clean the kitchen or something. Oh god, no, it's anti feminist to clean in this room. We are surrounded by the matriarchy. Oh you really are. There's literally like it always comes down to genda, comes down to genda. I hope you and it's over our Oh that's really good. Yeah, congratulations, all right, next question, next question question? Um, oh, okay, so there was was it not your go? No? I had that. No, it is mad he wants to go. There were there were questions so we could do the round for oh yeah, the or the death community or I feel like we can't really talk on that because none of us we're not we're a third party. Well that's the question, but that's not a question on the list exactly what question you're going to ask, But is it a question question? The question is like, can we make commentary on like things the government he does none of them are blinders. Their far they you know, some of them. I think that. Okay, I thought, well if people yes, so what they called people that stand on behalf of people advocates? I found a good psychology question. There is evidence that people give more to charity when asked by someone wearing a designer label, what should we make of this Gucci? Are they like saying that people I would immediately? Are they saying that people with designer labels are more trustworthy? You know what? Mere good? But why are they more trustworthy because they're rich? Yeah? Like have the stigma about and is it like, oh, well, this rich person is asking me to give money to charity, so they probably give money to charity and that's an indication of wealth. And I want to seem wealthy and I want to seem wealthy. Yeah, I want more tax deduction. Yeah. I think Meg's point is really good. It's like if we see someone wearing nice clothes, where we trust them, we believe that they'll be honest. It's like our whole values in Australia and Western society are based on like success with the success and money. So many money aspects are like that kind of concept. I feel like you can extrapolate to so many different aspects of life. It's kind of the same idea that underpins the whole. It's not creepy of their heart. Oh yeah, when there was attractive people do better in job interviews. Yeah, it was a study in psychology. I just learned that last week actually about if people do better in jobs. No, no, yeah, And if you are a vehicle attractive person, you trust them more because they're attracting, and so a designer label could be seen as attractive like more culturally because it's like, yes, an indication is such a beautiful that. There was this Netflix show that I watched earlier this year called The Serpent, and it was about this guy that like murdered a bunch of backpackers in like the sis. It wasn't that he was hot, it was that he was a fellow foreigner. And I feel like when more traveler, you in that group's more inclined to trust a fellow foreigner than you are a local person. And that's sutually. I just had a thought, Wow, apparently in Vietnam, in the Saigon, this is such a tangent. No, in Vietnam, in Sigon, this is not in any touristy area in like Southeast Age or wherever. The touristy area is the one where people get drink sparked. It's not the local area because it's always the tourists are because people are like, oh, they're fucking tourists, like dumb ass people. Yeah they're rich, but they're so unaware of the culture around them at the moment. But that's interesting because it is such a designer clothes Like maybe maybe if you've got someone in the designer clothes are asking you to give money, it feels less like they're begging for money. Oh oh my god, because it's less like they don't need it. But like, oh my god, that's so true. That means it's like the rich people always own the business, you know what I mean, they're giving it to someone rich. I don't know if that makes sense, but no, I do. I do know what you mean. I was also going to say, it's an idea of in groups and our groups. So people who are wearing people who are wearing like designer labels, you form this kind of in group that a you also want to be a part of. Yeah, you want to be a part of and you can see that, yeah, or Western society want and the way that you can and seem like you're part of the group is by donating. You know. That's firstly like the social pretense of wanting to be wanting to appear wealthy. But secondly it's the thing of like I could be this person if I gave more generously, like I don't look like the individual. If I give more generously, like a very giving like generous, yeah, or this is a rich people give, I'm going to give and then I'll be wealthy like or you know, I'll track. That's that's rude, not rude, But it's like the people. It's not the people who are being there, what you call the advocates for these charities. It's not their fault, but like like they're they're calling on individuals that like us, who are definitely not rich people like there are billionaires that could donate like one thousand times that what we could donate, but they call upon like individuals like us. You know, you see people in the you know, like I don't know, like well visioned in the supermarket, in civic you know, and they calling on people like as I just had a really good idea oh my god, Okay, another that fast. If they're wearing designer labels, it makes the company look more trustworthy because it makes them look more professional. It makes them look like they know how to spend their money more. It makes them look more capable because if their employees or the people who are who are asking for money look like those that are a symbol of wealth and a symbol of doing well, you might think like they actually know what they're doing, because if this rich person is supporting them, a rich person isn't going to waste their money. But then I would think, like if I saw someone working for like I don't know, what's a good world vision, yeah, like and they were wearing design clothes, I'd be like, wow, fast fashion, Yeah, are these clothes made the same. But I'd actually trust someone who's wearing like not like who was still clean that who was wearing like ethically made clothes or like secondhand clothes, because oh my god, they actually care, like you know about fast not this is about fast fashion, but you know about like that's still in in in what's a word, like less economically developed countries. You know, I think it's always about experiences and what appearance of the company attracts, like what you're attracted to, what the audience is of the company advertiser if he wants a company that you think is trustworthy, or like if you want one that seems ethical, Like, how do you navigate that in terms of presenting a brand? What was the question charity? Sorry, oh I forgot there. We were on a big I don't know. That's fine. It wasn't one that I initially kind of flagged to do um, but then it popped up and I thought, oh, that's a bit of psychology. It was, Yes, it was why are we more likely to donate to charity by people wearing yes? Oh? That it does relate to what we're saying, and complete tangent. We are on the right track with charity. We were kind of yeah, but I think that's a really interesting one. When was the last time you guys don't edit to charity? I used to do it, Like month they called me into doing a monthly thing to the woodenness. I knew you were going to say the world in society. They fucking called me and they like I was like, they're like, do five dollars. I was like yeah, And then he didn't say it was five dollars more than what I was paying, so I paid fifteen dollars and I was like, and then I rang up by canceled. I had to ring up because I couldn't do it online, and then they made me feel bad. Yes, probably I can't. I was like, I can't afford it. I'm a student. I always use that though. Oh um, when Darwin went into like the snap lockdown when I was home and the Fringe comedy festival that was the week after got kind of pre emptively canceled, and they gave you the offer to donate the money from your tickets to charity. And my friend got like three hundred dollars by the tickets. She was like and she was like, yeah, yeah, I'll donate it. And then a couple of days later, her car break. Sorry I need that money back. Honestly, you attract my journe like sorry, like a struggling artside. Yeah, I've decided that I'm really I want to self interest. Yeah, Adam Smith, maybe he's right. Oh fuck, I remember the one that really gets me is m Doctors without Borders. I've heard that? Is that? Yes? Because it's gone. Fancier's Median Okay, I think Edison on the front. Yeah. Um mad He's like, yeah, I'll say it in Russian, you say it in Arabic, you'll say it in Chinese, and we can just all show off. I feel like this could oh yeah, that question, but oh yeah, but can I just yeah, but I just want to say, if you haven't want to donate, you should definitely donate to Doctor Without Borders because their ad campaign videos get me every fucking time. I literally will watch them if I want. I know, I know, I know A bit podcast sponsored me. Okay, next question there was the happy One or multi Yeah, I feel like that could segue well from guys, were only like thirty six minutes and we have heaps of Well, we're definitely getting into all souls. Ye, all souls? What's all souls? This is I only know what. I don't even know what it's called. I'm obviously not fucking getting No, you're not. The question was does multi lingualism mean multiple identities? Boom boom, And I think well I said that because will we all speak different languages and definitely being in a different country. Yeah, like you can't take on like it was French, you take on the accent. It's like the whole var you need the accent. Otherwise you can't if you speak French without the accent to speaking Wrench because it's like you don't, like you can't. Yeah, there's not that you can't. If you don't say the accent, you're not free. It's like, what the fuck is this person doing. They're like, just we Vegan, Like you don't say that she's Bee Megan, Like you just say it like nicely. That's part of the idea. Yeah, it's partly honesty exactly what do you want? No, but this morning there was actually fourteen there was Yeah, it was I did yeah, and Jazz was asleep. I was like, surely jas is gonna wake up? Allowed I don't know. There's one there, there's one every northeast southwest, never could be weeks anyway, Oh very good. Um. But I remember when I used to speak when I when I was in Russia, I would like, my Russian was so Australian, so I'd be like I would just use like I would just say I speak Russian, and Russian says like, yeah, what do you want to say to me? But I would say yeah, par Ski, Yeah, but you no one to you go over there, because I went French before I went over, and I was like, so Australian. When I went over, I was like, fun, why am I saying this? So are you both saying that the different identity would come from the different accent. I feel like it's an indicative of the different identity you step into when you go to The language is literally interconnected with identity. I did see your twelve and I stick by it. Okay, I didn't go that well in English, but I can try to explain it. Um. No, it's just like the word we use, the syntax, the semantics, the meaning behind everything we say, like like Aussie is like we shorten things, and that that in its way, it's like we say like smoker when we say like servo or whatever, and that in its way is like we're like lazy. We are we're lazy, and we're like, yeah, casual and lazy. I think um in a general like genuine, very generalized, stereotypical way, but like um compared compared to like yeah French, where it's like eloquent, yeah, like it's sounding beautiful and like all these like you say these sayings, like these phrases and because you say this, you know, like metaphors, you sound more, you're eloquent, more like that, And maybe that's a part of I feel like it is you do have different identities because it's like what the language really shows what people value in that culture and even the way of like forming sentences. I also feel like when you step into a different culture and you speak a different language, you start to identify with different people, and just by inherent nature, you start to identify with people of different backgrounds and of different like cultural values. I'm getting hot, we're sitting next to the heater. Guys. Now that actually that's a weird example because like in the Arab world, it's beauty for women is very big, like it's like, well, like to be fair, like there isn't much natural like outdoorsy stuff, which is what I would usually be into. So that even like the when I was over there, I like, obviously I don't I actually do like anyone nails and stuff, but I like I would love and like everyone vibed getting their nails and everyone vibed having their hair and makeup. Really now, so it's like I can actually do this and I don't like in Australia. I love to go in the outdoors and I love to be you know you as you know, like all this sporty stuff in when I was in the arab when I was in Jordan, I was like, oh I can, like I don't. I can't do that because there's no option to do that. I'll go to their culture and I'll do my hair. Yeah, yeah, I know. It was just like you feel more immersed in it, and therefore you feel more like, yeah, all right, Maddie, you actually lived in China, so let's talk about her to her. So we've all lived in the countries that we have. We speak a language job, so I feel like it's kind of difficult because when when you're back in Australia, I have not spoken Russian to anyone for about a year. It's so hard because the context of us is Shalan. Yeah, no one speaks Russian here. I feel like when I first lived in China and I didn't speak good Chinese at this point, and the job that I had in Guangga back in twenty seventeen, I was the only foreigner there and something that I really struggled with linguistically was when people would ask me to do things. Yeah, in in Chinese, and the requests sound much more direct in Chinese they do in English because in English, yeah, you don't just please and thank you as often, and Chinese doesn't have as many pillow Well, yes, the filler is like you please. I think we really a a special piment. We love to head your language. Really sorry, I'm sorry to bother, but if you have time, could you really possible possible please if ye do this? But something I also really thought about and just on the accent topic quickly with like Chinese, I think it's a whole um different ball game there because it's a tonal language. So it's it's kind of like if you don't have of somewhat of a good accent, you're completely like, actually don't you're understood, yeahs understood, Yeah you can't. So being adopting the language means that like you do have a different identitally because otherwise you can't communicate with people. So it's like you have to do it because you can't speak a language without having the accent basically the language. Yeah, at least having I think I think you have less flexibility with your pronunciation when it's a tonal language. Yeah, what do they think? Like you know what I mean, Like, what do French whip when we speak Aussie French? Like do they like, oh if when we just when they hear it, they would just think of it. They could understand what the fuck is it? But actually, can I say this about what you were saying? Like when you go to France or when I was in like Russia, and you know, the accent was such a huge part. Perhaps people who were speaking French or people who were speaking Russian who come to Australia are equally like, oh my god, I feel like I can't actually get into this culture because the Aussies have such a strange Jackson. That's why so important to travel and like understanding that because we want stand if a French, if like a you know whoever, like a international person came to Alan, I'll be like, oh, that's so like they're speaking English, like that's amazing, you know, but they're like people like to stand as He's like I often got that was like when I was in Russia, Like people couldn't understand my English. Like sometimes even though they suppose English, it's was American or American American. That's a big problem and then I'd be there like heavy on the vows as much as as much the dialect interesting of Nash. Yeah, do you find because when whenever I go back to Queensland, my my Australian accident just like what's what? That's what? Like? No ither when my brother went to queens and when he came back his accident was so Queensland. I was like, Kay, have you notice that when we were in Queensland was my accent stronger? Or did you not really notice? I didn't notice. What you're gonna say, Maybe you had a point I thing. I wanted that down, yes, back down to the ground and the movement. I find really interesting about Chinese, particularly now that we're having a huge conversation about pronouns, is that I've spoken Chinese. There is no differentiation between men and women. Everyone is tart. Is that you? Or is that he? She? Oh? Really that is cool because everybody's complete its Yeah, it's everyone is tar. It's only when you write like and you want to say tar blah blah blah as in a woman that you use a different use of female radical And interestingly, when you use the tar character for a man, it's not a male radical. It is the person radical because man is the default human. And when you say they in Chinese the default human in Chinese, or in Chinese, what's the default human? Is it person? Like you know what I mean? Because I'm referring to like, what's that object over there? Associate it's a chair? Would you say that most objects in a male or it or it is not gender? But but the it is also tar. Oh yeah, but a different character because but so you don't use that word that often in Chinese, because Chinese doesn't you don't really repeat the subject first time, that doesn't really arise. But when you want to say like they and you use the tar character plus the character that indicates like like the plurality, you use the male tar character and something as well, words like like jealousy in Chinese, that that has a female radical, And I think that's interesting. So that a cultural I don't wonder if that shapes the way that you think about gender. But yeah, English, Yeah, that's good. That's actually been researched quite like a lot. It's like the gender like the genders of certain nouns French Enguish shapes because English doesn't have genders, does it not really like you say, like you know, like vehicles or cheese and you're like or in that sense. No, but it's like you know, like I like lamp over there, I'm it's not hurt in Italian, like lamp might be feminine. Yeah in French yeah, or like whatever. And I don't know like the radical or what about the but like English doesn't have it, but then English, I feel like every English speaking country there's definitely gender issues. Yeah, but I searched up what are the matria I remember this, What are the matriarchies in like the world. Yeah, I can't remember. There was one in like Tibet kind of China area. I just remember that somewhere there there was like a huge matriarchy society. Yeah, that's one in East Africa as well. Yeah. Like it's really cool as a psyche kind of talking about psychology like and linguistics and the intersection between linguistics and even sociology, like doing a triple discipline on this on this topic, heaps of fun, but like it would be really really interesting to think about perspectives on gender and respect around gender and gender hierarchy based on how language treats it, which kind of comes into cultural identity like oh yeah, yeah, so interconnected. Like the language you use is like we were talking about with the deaf blind thing, language is primarily your main mode of communication. So and it becomes almost like unconscious and implicit. So if your language is treating a gender in a certain way, even just in its semantics, how does that translate or where did that come from? Really gets like in Russia and it's like, oh, it's just like everything is gendered. Everything is gender object. It's a female object now like they is it in arig it's they sheet or they have the distinction between genders is so much stronger. Yeah, but how would you if you were like I'm like, what's the word non binary? Like equi any other languages? That's just another thing? How would you become You wouldn't have an identity in another language because you're not a you're not that, you're not like it or in Chinese, yes, but in Arabican, Russian not a day, Like there's no that. You can't be poor, you can't be you can't yeah, you're either. It's really hard for like growing world though, because like how how are people who are non binary or that was their identity, linguistic background, it's very historical. It was a very history. You would definitely get into Oxford College with that. Yeah, that was so fucking true. Oh my god, myself, it was really interesting. I did not even think about that for really listening to this, because I forgot. Oh yeah, and you need a bit of a positivity. I've alway just send this to Oxford and be like, here you go, what are your thoughts? Give me like some constructive three PhD fundfully change and I would like to work on I don't know. I don't think I would climentase is too big. What would you Okay, wait, kind of an interest, like a bit of a movement away, what would you do your PhD on? And if you could in the next five years, maybe fires in Australia, something to do with bush fires, something something local though, Yeah, what would you do your PhD on? Mm hmm, well, gender, that's gender. Yeah, that's so it's so hard to narrow down. I think I'm really interested in social media and democracy, but I'm also really interested in, you know, the Australian China space is social mode a new form of imperialism. I don't know what that means. I would do my PhD on false memories and the prevalence of false memories. But then I also, is there such thing as a true memory? No? Absolutely is not. There is absolutely no. Okay, don't say much. I'm sorry. I'm sorry psychology I could not do. It's just sociology. Psychology. I would just how is it as a psychology student do you find it hard to navigate the duality of kind of having that elevated self awareness of why you think the way that you do and what kind of like thinking traps you're susceptible too, and at the same time still being susceptible to them. You know what, It really sucks because you would think, so this is the thing with unconscious processes. Being aware of them doesn't actually do anything. So I have this issue or unt involuntary. Absolutely, I get stuck in thinking traps all the time, like, and I know why they occur. I know, like it's really crazy because I'll go into my therapist office and that's true and what happens. But I'm like I already already know, Like she'll be like, oh, we should do this, and I'm like yeah, But like the other day she was like, we should do DT and I was dialectical menial therapy and I was like, oh, but I know that it has this downside and it's actually not going to work for me because I know that this is an issue with it and actually I didn't have this background, so talking about it will actually be worse for me. And She's but it's very that's very specific. That's like a one line thing, but it's like every individence or intrusive thoughts as well. I'm like, I know exactly why I'm getting intrusive thoughts. I know exactly and all the process behind it, but like I still get the two edge saw it again. Yes it kind of sucks. Yeah, all like that the whole thing about I always I think this all the time, and I know it's quite like I would say, it's not privilege, but just like privilege and the fact that I have like we all have quite big brains, you know brains have the tiny head though, so really I feel like I have a big head, medium head. I was like, mine's pretty big? Is big? Yea here? I used to get my parents as to call me sure I have a square Wait wait, what was the privilege? Yeah, it's like um would you rather this is I don't think this is a very ethical question, so I probably wouldn't be on that question on that board exam. But like, would you rather be I think I've said this intelligence, intelligent and have mental health anxiety issues, overthinking issues, or dumb and not because you and not even think about it because you're dumb and you won't think that in your words, Okay, would you rather be smart and have to deal with like fucked thinking or would you rather data and not have to think about But then also if you're dumb, you get susceptible to capitalism and you get to you work for nothing and you work hard for nothing. No, but that's not true. Yeah, but no, but that's like lots of people, Yes, it is in insenses in lots of cases, people don't know what's out there right now. Like some people just don't know what's out there. They haven't had that access and they or they haven't and they don't know what they can literally like do think they can do what they want for so much easier, they can have such a good life, but they haven't seen it and they're working so hard. I don't know, it really depends because like I had this like awful experience at the start of the year, it changes where I'm like, it's so fucked. But it's like I know that being an intelligent person means that, like it comes with so much. The amount of time I'm in my own head is like absolutely sickening. Sometimes I just wish that I could just pull out my mind and like put it on a table so I could just like be this like little figure that just doesn't think about stuff. It does not thinking about stuff necessarily mean that you're not intelligent, or is it just that you're better able to sign thoughts? I don't know, meditation, baby, maybe if you just meditate here, mean you like if I didn't, if I didn't even have to think about meditating, and my thoughts just like went through. It's just like guys, I feel like they just don't think. So guys are dumb, maybe emotionally the intelligence, I don't know what, like internal intelligence. Every man I've ever known has been a little bit stupid. Yeah, but they just don't they don't care. It's more, it's not like they aren't caring a bad bad they just don't care. Like they just like I don't think it's true. I don't think that's true. I maybe a lot of I feel like there are some that I've met who are very but this is more about like anxiousness rather than intelligence. You know. Wait wait wait, wait, wait, Naddie answered, sorry, I didn't stay with you. I think I think that being of a higher intelligence naturally makes you have a greater degree of existential awareness, which can make you more depressed. But I think that at the same time, I think it also allows you to have maybe richer experiences formed deeper connections, And I think the downside of that is that the things that you feel to perhaps a more like heightened extreme in a good way, that you might get to feel um at an above average level, to um someone that is like unimplined to thinking in deeper ways, and you appreciate the same more time. It comes with feeling the lows more acutely. So it just depends whether you want to kind of have consistency and a more Plato stable life. But that's like shit, because like it's all relative. Like if we're happy, it means we've had to have sad times, you know, absolutely, But yeah, that's question. How do we how can we know if we are happy? I might just might have to move on to that's another point. Um, I just feel so bad, like why I wish everyone like, you know, do you ever feel so bad about like people? Like why aren't they? You know, they could do so many things. I don't know. I just feel like, yeah, you metric though maybe they are happy doing that. I know. That's a good point. That's a very good point. But it's like it's a very good point. Actually, it's beautiful that you recognize their potential and you're like, if I had that potential, this is what I would do with. Yeah, but everyone's brains did why are different? I suppose maybe they don't want that. It's like my cousins. I love them to bits, but they want very different things to me. And that very good point. Yeah, I feel like when I was younger, I would often be like, I don't say we are the most each individual is er em Yeah, absolutely, Well, thank you all for listening. We realized. Maddie just realized that we have to go fucking clean up the kitchen asked the question, we have one more question to leave with you. Yeah, here's a good question for you. The poet who who asked to clean the kitchen so the first one is, how do you know whether you were happy? Oh, big one. I really wish we'd answered that. Maybe we can do a part two, okay next time. Yeah. Yeah. Maddie's funny one is I already said it. Should we banish the poets? Yes, I have a thing. Oh my god, remember when I was dating my Oh, I don't make hates that I'm talking about men at the moment, but like disgusting, Oh my god, oh my god. He used to write me poems and I literally wouldn't want to drop. It was like I saw this really funny. Mean the other day it was like open to Snapchat expecting it to be a dick pick, but it was a poem, which is somehow so much worse. And I was like, I was like, yeah, that's so true. Anyhow, some beautiful questions coming out of this. I hope as you were listening you kind of got to think about them as well. I think it's a really good, like kind of mental exercise, Like we were really in this moment just like discussing things, you know, all that worry about, like whether the Internet is like fucking without cognition and it all will be okay. Yeah, if you just answer some of these Oxford questions. No need to everythink. Yeah, everything, It's okay, Mattie Okay, Mattie's the existentialist, I'm the mediator, and Meg is the passionate one. Like that's I'm an Aquarius Aquarius, I'm a pios. No, isn't aquarius coaster not water Aquarius. It's aquari, It's aquarier. It's aquarium aquarium. It has aquarius a sign. Yes, No, that is absolutely yes, you're telling me answer. Cancer is a water sign, but of warious is not a water sign. Yes, I am pies. Anyway, anyhow, I forgot we were recording. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed our beautiful guests. They mean so much to me and I think they're amazing, so I really appreciate that they came on. Thank you for having us. No, it's okay. Following me on LinkedIn, Oh no, I'll put it in the bier. Follow you on Strava, Strava. Yes, that's a good one. LinkedIn Strava, and follow me on Instagram at twenty Psychology podcast, and also follow us where you get your podcasts Spotify, Apple, Google, Anchor, we're all over there, and if you're still listening, three cheers. Hurrah, Hurrah, Hurrah calculations. Bye,