Clay SZN

00:00:15
Speaker 1: You get that little nature in the background there. Hello, Caitlin.

00:00:20
Speaker 2: I feel like this is spring break Renee's tennis podcast, Gone Wild.

00:00:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I never went on spring break because you know, in Australia it was only summer break. We didn't really have spring break. I can't even remember what that. That doesn't even it doesn't even really exist in Australia, I don't think, not really. I mean, we have summer and winter and pretty much everything in between. We do have spring, and we have autumn. You have fall, we have autumn. Don't you call it autumn in Canada? We do. Yeah, So there you go. So you know what I'm talking about anyway. But we're on the other side of the world. So it's a little bit flippedloped. But I am, Yes, I am. I have a week off of my show, so I tripped off down to Mexico and I can honestly say, this is my second time to Mexico and I want to live here. I love it. It's just the best.

00:01:13
Speaker 3: I told you.

00:01:13
Speaker 2: I mean, this is why I'm always this is why I won't shut up about it on our podcast.

00:01:17
Speaker 1: No no, no, I can listen. We're in last Carbo, so I'm just hoping that maybe a WTA decides to put a tennis tournament here. I'm going to go and hit some tennis balls at the resort that I'm at, so I'll let you know if it's functional for a WTA event.

00:01:31
Speaker 2: Well, I have played in Los Carbos at the courts where they have the men's event.

00:01:37
Speaker 3: They have a men's event, I mean in.

00:01:39
Speaker 2: Los Cabos already, and they have a stadium court and it's a hard court, and it's on a hill overlooking the ocean, and they put a stadium around the center court, and there's a bunch of other courts all around it, and there's a clubhouse.

00:01:49
Speaker 3: It's cool, it works.

00:01:50
Speaker 2: You get it, and it's a beautiful place to be with amazing food and the people are pumped.

00:01:55
Speaker 3: So Viva Mexico is what I have to say.

00:01:58
Speaker 1: Viva on Mexico. Yes, have an event in Guadalajara, which is great city, very different to Lost Cowbos, just a little bit more historic and etcetera. But you know, the WTA decided to go back to China, but we'll get to that at some point in this podcast.

00:02:12
Speaker 2: Should we start there, I feel like there's a lot to discuss We obviously had a great, amazing tournament to talk about on the men's side this past week. There's now another women's tournament that's underway in Germany.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: It's Stuttgart. But before we.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: Talk about the men's results, which was very fun and very exciting, I think we should at Monte Carlo, I think we should talk about the WTA a little bit. Let's start there, because we had some pretty intense words for the WTA specifically, although you know, per usual, we don't really spare anybody in our assessment of how to get everybody to try to do better. The WTA since the last time we spoke, has announced that after a couple of years of not going to China, I don't necessarily want to call it a boycott. Even though they called it a boycott, it was not going to China. But also China was closed during the time that the boycott was happening. Now that it's open, and now that the CEO, Steve Simon has said that they need to take a new tact. The initial boycott, as they called it a boycott, was because, as they said, Pung Shui, the Chinese player who made some credible seeming accusations against a Chinese government official on a social media site later deleted those accusations was essentially not available for comment or follow up. The WTA, among many many other folks in the world, had some serious concerns about her safety well being where she was. She was made available to talk, but under supervision, and after a few years of basically waiting for something else to happen, I think the WTA has decided that that's as much as they're going to get from their Chinese counterparts, And now that the country's open again, the WTA has a ton of its prize money coming as much as a third coming from the swing in China specifically, that's where the finals are. There's a tenure, multi multimillion dollar prize pot associated with having the tournament in that country specifically, as well as the other tournaments in Wuhanna, Beijing, and so here we are this fall WT goes back to China.

00:04:25
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts, actually, but.

00:04:27
Speaker 2: I'm curious how this struck.

00:04:30
Speaker 3: You, you know.

00:04:33
Speaker 1: I mean, initially, I think what they tried to do was a good thing to try and bring light to this, and it became a worldwide story. Obviously, I mean, I don't think I've appeared on CNN more in my life or MSNBC talking about women's tennis outside of actually women's tennis. So you know, I think initially it was I guess it was a good thing that they put, you know, decided to stand up to the Chinese government and say these things. But at the same time, what was the calculation here, Like, was it, Okay, let's sit down and really talk about this because if we do pull out, and clearly this is you know, with the with the idea that no one knew about COVID about to hit the around the corner, you know, and then essentially, like you said, they weren't going there anyway because COVID wasn't allowing people to play tournaments in China as it was so because the man had no intention of not going and they weren't going either because of COVID, So sort of you know, so you can say, well, they took a stand, but really did they? So for the first year they took a standand which I was, you know, you know, proud of them for doing that and standing up to and trying to make change. But it seems to me that they went into this not having a clear understanding of what the ramifications were if nothing was changed, and I have to say, you'd have to say nothing was gonna change. I mean we're talking about China here. I mean the bottom line is I just think that they had no out. I would like them to be a little bit more transparent in the fact that, look, we really pursue trying to have tournaments in other parts of the world and sort of put it on the society to say, oh, really, oh shit, we'll put on tennis tournaments here, We'll put prize money up. Like I want to know, did they go to sponsors, did they go to other parts of the world and say, listen, we really want to just take all of tennis out of China. And we tried to have groups or VC companies or whatever different countries whether it be Mexico or Spain or whoever you know, say no, no, we want to put on eight tournaments. We'd like to have your fall schedule back again, because I mean, when I played the first fifteen years of my career, we're in Europe, we played Europe at the end of the year, we played all indoor tournaments, and we played then back in the States. In Philadelphia and Chicago.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: Where's the carpet Get some carpet company to sponsor the carpet swing. I'm there for that. And if I own a carpor company, I'm bringing tennis back to my favorite surface of carpet.

00:06:58
Speaker 1: Yeah that's I mean, say, look, this came back down to finances. Just just be honest, Like no one else wanted to put on a six week or seven week swing like China does. They're they're they're throwing money down our roads. We got to go back, like, let's be fucking honest about this, Like, let's not be like, well, you know, we really got to know we've got you know, Steve saying, we've got to take another another track. What there's no track, it's one track. It's China's track. It's China's track.

00:07:28
Speaker 2: It is just see what the new approach would be other than just taking their money, that's thee what else that could be?

00:07:38
Speaker 3: Either take their money or you don't.

00:07:41
Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to work with them. We want to you know, try and change the face of like tennis and China and we want to try and you know, get more people playing. It's like that was that was the idea ten years ago and things. Of what has changed since that moment to this is that we have a credible former world number one in doubles, former top twenty singles player who has essentially been silenced. So that has not changed. So what was your you know, end game in doing this in the first place, and just admit nothing changed. We're kind of screwed financially, we need this. Nobody else has put up the money, and so we're going back and just be honest, like take it up, like like literally, you're just having to admit nothing worked, and that's that's okay, you know. I just I feel like Steve Simon in this situation should step down. And a lot of people like, oh, Steve's a great guy, and all those things are true, and he is a great guy. But I think there has to be a massive change in the leadership of the WTA with what's happened here.

00:08:42
Speaker 3: I do, I think.

00:08:46
Speaker 2: Interestingly because sometimes I despait our, not at the very moment proximity to each other, but just how often I see you and talk to you. Sometimes I feel like I could predict what you're going to say, and I didn't actually think that you were going to say any of that stuff, because that's essentially.

00:09:05
Speaker 3: What I was going to say, and it's really too bad. This is the fiftieth year of the WTA. This is the fiftieth year of the.

00:09:11
Speaker 2: Existence starting in nineteen seventy three with the original nine. We've talked about them ad nauseum. I've written about them, you've met them all. Billy is a hero not only to both of us, but also like legion of people in the world. This is on the fiftieth anniversary of this body. I have so many things that I feel like I want to be able to celebrate but can't quite which is really frustrating, because so many things that tennis was so good at doing, which was putting women on nearly equal footing with men, creating a blueprint for all these other sports to have leaders and to have structure, and to have sponsors, and to have their own following and in their own media deals, you know, which really laid the ground for the ninety six ers, the women who in nineteen ninety six won the gold medal soccer and then became essentially able to create a viable league, now viable teams, and now viable really society of soccer players hockey, we've now fallen behind. And what's so frustrating to watch. And I do want to make an optimistic point here, but before I do, I have to get this off my chest, which is what's frustrating to watch is just that as these other leagues and women's sports expands, people who buy rights, people who buy stadiums, people who buy merchandise, sponsorship, celebrities who are buying shares of teams, tennis has fallen behind this. And I can't help but think that as our sport, the third most popular global sport, proven to create feeding frenzies of ticket sales, viewership, and all the attendant stuff that goes with it, we haven't been able to optimize this. And that's true of the men too, they haven't been able to.

00:10:54
Speaker 3: Optimize it, but it's more true of the WTA.

00:10:57
Speaker 2: And I think to your point, the fact that there wasn't a plan and the fact that there wasn't a and I hope there was and we just don't know about it, but a really aggressive outreach to sort of say like, hey, we've now made this stand, we absolutely have to do something else. And what is that something else going to look like? I think is the part that sort of shocks me that it's not happening. And I think the optimistic thing I will say is that I think we know with the purchase by CBC the private equity group out of Europe and the incoming CEO of that group, and there's a new board of advisors for that group, among whom are brilliant sort of people coming from outside of tennis, people who haven't necessarily worked in the sport and sort of have its own limitations and baggage are coming in through that portal who maybe will and there are plenty of people who I think are really entrepreneurial and really thoughtful about bringing money in excitement and connecting that with some of what we see other women's sports benefiting from. It's just a little bit crazy to me that that's not already happened. I hope to guard that this new group is able to do it, because it's really sort of frustrating to watch them fail to have a plan here.

00:12:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what you know, I was sort of getting to was that I just think and as you just said, you know, I hope there was a plan, but it just seems like to me it was you know, there was no plan. You know, I feel like the WTA's inconsistent with that, you know, and they struggle with money and that's why they're going back to China. And as opposed to like you said, you know, you've got Alexis o'hanney and with his daughter an LA soccer game yesterday because they own part of the lah W the women's soccer league. So it's like, wait a second, Like you've got people like Serena Williams and Venus Williams for example. You know, Venus is buying shares in a pickaball team or Naomi o Saka is buying shares in a pickaball team, and Nick curious. I'm not worried about the men, but like the women we're talking about, Like you'd have got the Brandy Chastain's involvement in you know, getting a new soccer team up in San Francisco. You've got the w NBA is like, you know, going forward and forward and forward because of you know, players that are making strides in the NC doublea women's tournament where the numbers are going through the roof. How more successful. You know ESPN's coverage of the NC Douba women's basketball was like all these things, And as you said, there's women's other women's sports that are nipping at the heels of the most popular sport for women in the world, and that's tennis. And I think that the WTA needs to really sit back and go what do we need to do to shake it up? And how do we get people involved? Like you know me, I can tell I know how so many people that I've met in the world of business, politics, entertainment, you know, all these things. And you know, you know, some of my friends, it's like they are obsessed with tennis, but yet has someone gone out and outreached to them, Hey, will you want to get involved in a women's tennis event? Like you know, just having people that are superstars going to you know, these LA women's soccer games is making it more popular for sure.

00:14:01
Speaker 2: Why Jessica Chastain is a huge following And where's the La Angels football club jersey for free on her Instagram? You can't buy that kind of advertising. She owns part of the team, she's at the games. I don't know, and I do will. I will say you brought up an interesting point. Whether you intended to or not, which is not only is it incumbent upon the people who run the sport to create opportunities for people to invest in, but also I want to know, and I would love to challenge did Naomi Osaka look at tennis investments before she decided to buy a pickleball?

00:14:31
Speaker 3: Shares? Did? Did Serena? Did Venus?

00:14:34
Speaker 2: Did?

00:14:34
Speaker 3: All these?

00:14:34
Speaker 2: Are all these players making themselves available? Are they trying to kind of give back to the sport? I hope that's true, and I suspect it might not be, maybe because it's hard, or maybe because there doesn't exist that sort of affinity or opportunity, or maybe we should push them to be better, you know. And I think not to let them off the hook, because part of this has to do with them too. But I just think it's frustrating to watch such a great product, which is women's tennis, and such a great moment, which is which women's it generally is having, and feel like both the people in charge of the sport and also some of the people who you mentioned are you know, leading funds, creating legislation, powerful, interesting, you know, and I think ambitious people. We got to be able to figure this out, like it's not due to lack of popularity, and it's not due to lack of a good product. And so I'm hopeful that this new generation of sort of leadership that is kind of coming in to the WUTA, whose task is to solve this, will have some great ideas. But yeah, I don't know how you leave things the way that they've been and with the leadership and some of the structure, I think it needs to sort of drastically be addressed. And you know, I've lived in China.

00:15:44
Speaker 3: I like China.

00:15:45
Speaker 2: I have plenty of things to sort of say about the positivity of my experience.

00:15:50
Speaker 3: But I also think, you know, if.

00:15:52
Speaker 2: Charles Leclerc were kidnapped from you know, a Monaco event, it's hard to imagine f one would stay there. You know, Like it's just well, it's just like, how do you do that? How do you as a as a sport do that. The ATP didn't even consider doing the right thing, and the WTA, to their credit, and fault did for whatever reason, and then now they undid it, and so it's just sort of like, oh, man, leaders, lead guys. You want to be leaders, You want to be the guy at the you know, heavy is the head that worth the crown, Like, let's go do better.

00:16:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean speaking of la Clerk, he was at the F one Sorry, he was at the Monaco tournament yesterday and I mean hello another to him and Gasly were at the tournament yesterday. So it's like, do you know how many people love tennis? Like you don't see them at watching pickable games? You know what I mean. It's like, So that's what I'm saying about taking advantage of the actual superstars that love the game of tennis, and we don't reach out to them. And I mean as far as this China situation is concerned, I mean I know from some of you very very credible in the in the tennis tour, you know that there were several top, top top players that were not even spoken to about going to China. Again, there's only so much that we can do as tennis players know the geopolitics of the sport of tennis going through and back to China. But you know, when you think about the going back to China, but yet you know it's taken them forever to deal with this Ukrainian issue with the players. I mean, you've got players that are having panic attacks that are not able to walk out on the court against the beller Ussian or a Russian player, and I mean they kind of like pussy footed around that whole situation. And now they're paying the price with that because now you know, the players are now getting able to play Russia. Sorry, the Russian and beller Russians are able to play with Wimbledon. And then you've got some Ukrainian players that are pissed off. So it's just like, oh my god, It's like it's never ending with the decasse.

00:17:34
Speaker 2: It's also not going to go away, which is why I think you need to sort of create which is your point, Like the people who are tasked with leading the non player leaders, who are you know, the same types of people who are in charge of the w NBA, the same types of people who are in charge of the surf leagues, whatever it is, the career bureaucrat leaders, I think need to Yeah, but listen, I hope it changes and I think maybe it will last.

00:18:00
Speaker 1: A little question to you, do you think that it's incumbent on the WTA to be a little bit more open about the fact that they did have talks with other people, but yet nothing came to fruition, and that's why we're going back to China, Like I hate this. Well, we're going to try a different track kind of thing, because that's just horseshit, Like I want to hear more honesty about it, and so everyone's on the up and up. And maybe the Player Council knows this. I don't know, but like to people that are in the industry like me, that are in television, that want to know more, that get asked to go on CNN to talk about the WTA and like their decisions, but yet there's no forthright understanding of what really took place deep down inside. It's the same as when I go onto their WTA website and I want to find out information about players and hasn't been updated for two years, Like it's the same stuff. This is why I'm so passionate and upset about it, because I just feel like and people can say all they want, well, you need more money for marketing, you need more money for this, you need more money for more expertise. I just it drives me crazy. I just think the WTA is just there's just this like big black hole in the middle of it where they miss the boat half the time. And I'm I'm speaking from my own personal you know, encounters with having to deal with it. So that's why I'm really passionate about and that's what I'm upset about it. And there might be some people out there that the WTA is like, oh, you have no idea the work we did behind the scenes, and we did this and we well tell me when you.

00:19:25
Speaker 3: Say the way to link.

00:19:26
Speaker 2: I think the points we're both making is I think one thing I've seen, and this is true of a couple of different governing bodies. I won't pretend to have had high level conversations with every single governing body there are seven, but I've had conversations with people pretty high ranking in a number of different governing bodies, marketing, administration of tournaments, you.

00:19:46
Speaker 1: Know, blah blah blah, blah blah.

00:19:47
Speaker 2: And one thing is almost always true. They're nice people, they're trying their best. They are handcuffed by myriad things that we don't see.

00:19:55
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. You know that's to be true.

00:19:57
Speaker 2: But the other thing that's true is that not a whole lot of them have spent any time outside of tennis.

00:20:04
Speaker 3: Not a whole lot of.

00:20:05
Speaker 2: Them have what I would call particularly encouraging, big thinking, big ideas, creativity, and the sort of experience. Maybe it's entrepreneurship, maybe it's working for another sports league, maybe it's working at a bank or an entertainment firm. Tennis has had a revolving door of you work at an agency, then you work at a governing body, then you work at a brand, Then you work at an agency, then you work in a governing body, then you work at a brand. Like these are folks who kind of keep going in the revolving door of the same ideas, the same relationships, the same people, the same concepts, and they see the same limitations. Whereas when you bring in somebody from the outside who has a disruptive type of mindset or has different experiences, all of a sudden, new ideas get on the table, and things that maybe have been tried before but not in the same way get put on the table again. And so I think for me, that's where it comes down to transparency and competence. One of the things that everywhere else outside of the tennis world, governing bodies and sports have learned to be much more transparent because they know that that makes a better product, it makes a better organization, and the candor with which most other governing bodies of sports treat their task treat the discharge of their duties. I'm thinking specifically about the NBA, but also truly the most interne scene and secretive of the governing bodies, the NFL. Even Roger Goodall has had to explain multiple times why people like Dan Snyder are still in the league, why the sexual harassment policy exists as it does, why they've made this decision or not that decision. Part of that is having a healthy, robust press around the sport, asking the tough questions. But part of it is also the culture of the sport feeling like they have to provide answers. And I think because tennis has been this like kind of little sleepy backwater where everybody knows each other and everyone's got don't worry, I'll hire your kid over at my company. Don't worry, I've got your back. When you are done doing that governing body thing, just come over here and be in a you know, it's the same kind of like little buddy buddy thing, and the culture isn't You're right, I'm gonna come out and I'm gonna be transparent. I'm going to tell you we tried really hard to get the Amoradis, and we tried really hard to get the Mexicans, and they didn't quite come up with enough money. So we have no choice and this is what we have to do, and it sucks, but this is my responsibility, is to make sure.

00:22:16
Speaker 3: There's a viable league.

00:22:17
Speaker 2: If Steve Simon had said that, I would think, yeah, okay, and maybe he did all those things. He's just not The culture isn't to say them because nobody is afraid. Everyone's afraid to sort of say or own anything and to be honest. Most of what allows us as an independent media company, you, as an independent media personality, coach, contractor, et cetera. What allows us to have this conversation is our independence. If you and I were working for the WTA, if we're working for the USTA, if we're working for some other governing body, we would be scared into silence, or probably in my case at least, i'd already have been fired because nobody tolerates this level of transparency. It is springtime, and I would encourage all of you listening to this podcast that it is possible to start spring in a body that you love with Cicara's Signature nutrition program.

00:23:13
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00:24:54
Speaker 3: Things need to change. Yeah, I'm a fan of drastic change.

00:24:57
Speaker 2: I know you are too, And that's in the spirit of making this product as absolutely successful as it deserves to be. Is what this conversation is about, and it's one that unfortunately we find ourselves keep having.

00:25:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I just feel like there's an avenue or there's ways to, you know, make it popular and make it more popular, make it marketing, marketing it better, and so we don't have to go to China necessarily, right, And so that's my so we have options. Just give me options and then let me know the bottom line of those options, and if they are significantly less or whatever, after we've done all of the marketing, or you know, ask people to get on board. I don't know, grab a rebel Wilson who's obsessed with tennis and get her to do a campaign for you or something like that. You know, like, there's ways around it. I know it doesn't cost you money, of course, to cost you money, but there's also a quid pro quo. You know, you can you can say we'll invite you to any event and we'd love to have you here, and would you mind doing like like she did the NFL last year with the LA Rams. Like she did an entire thing for the NFL and the LA Rams. They paid her money and she did the like. There's so many people like that that are obsessed with tennis. I know plenty of them that would love to do something like that, but there's never a question asked of people like that. Instead, we get them to fucking buy pickle ball, you know, teams.

00:26:21
Speaker 2: But we did all the notes, all the hits, everybody. You're welcome for yet another wt A rant on to Charles Leclerk, Paul Gastley and what they were watching in Monacrlo, which was the incredible tennis tournament that took place at what has to be one of the most beautiful tennis clubs in all of the world. I have not been to Monaco. I have not seen it in person. I don't know if you've been a lot of players live there.

00:26:47
Speaker 3: What were your.

00:26:47
Speaker 2: Thoughts were impressions, give me the give me everything off the top of your mind.

00:26:52
Speaker 1: Fantastic event, right, just incredible to see, you know, these players just battling it out. Tough condition, a lot of rain this week and so that was that was pretty tough for the players to have to go on and off the court. I was super happy to see Taylor Fritz have a great tournament. I always loved the fact that he kicked stephanoff sits A passes, but after Stephanov's made that very very very weird. But not that that's every any abnormality when it comes to stephan Stephana sits a pass and he's weird tweets and rants on cameras, but basically saying, USA, red clay unicorn, like what and then and then I love it. I'm loving the trash talk, to be honest, and then Taylor goes and kicks his butt on red clay and then writes on the thing USA clay question mark, question mark, question mark. I loved it. It was great that that whole little episode between him and Steph was classic. And you know, Taylor Fritz is letting everyone know that he is a real threat on every single surface. So I'm happy to see that for American tennis, obviously. I want to flip back to Francis Tiafo speaking of clay winning the US Clay Court Tournament and in Houston. That was awesome to see him get his second ATP title. So you know, American men are sort of proving themselves that they can play on all surfaces, which is nice to see. But I mean, overall, look, you know, I was bummed for a sinner that he didn't get through to another final. I mean, you know how I feel about him. I just love him. I think he's just such a great kid, and his efforts through the week to come back from I mean, he's had such a long, long, long, like two months, and I was kind of hoping you would culminate by winning this tournament, but you know, fell short against Rune who's just you know, proving himself to be so good on all surfaces and he's so young. But man, he's disliked on tour. I mean, is there a person that likes this kid? Like it's amazing? He just pisses people off on the court and the garbage that he carries on with. But I'm hoping by the time he's twenty two or twenty three, he's kind of calmed down a little bit with that stuff and being so I don't know, just punishable. Can I say that? Just punishable with hiss and the way he carries on, And I think it really hurts him because look at what happened in the final against ruby Blev. I mean, he was smacking rube Lev. He gets up for one and bang the cramps start again. And he's had an issue with this in the past where the cramping has really hurt him. And I just wonder how much of that has to do with his emotions and his ups and downs.

00:29:19
Speaker 3: And his the energy he's using to yeah, just.

00:29:23
Speaker 1: Do whatever, you know, And then he belts two balls out out of the stadium, which frankly should have been two warnings. I don't know why that was only given one warning. That's some bullshit, Like as soon as he hit it out, it should have been warning ball of Bruce abuse. Instead there was like five seconds and then bang he hit another one out. That should have been too, That should have been a point penalty. There's little things like that that teach people. Look at Dennishopavolov when he hit the umpire, you know.

00:29:46
Speaker 3: Change the course of his life.

00:29:47
Speaker 1: He's never been a deck again, well, I don't know if he hasn't been a dick on court. I mean, there's certainly things that Dennis probably could get a little bit better up himself when it comes to his attitude. And this is hello those that live in glass else. Like I'm talking about this from experience, Like I think he definitely definitely that changed him. He could probably get better. But someone like that to rune to lose a point, you know, and get a point penalty, you start saying, you've got to have some restraint at times, you know. And Roger Federer learned that from a very young age because he was a complete hot head when he was younger. And like someone like you know, Uncle Tony tells rape if you ever do that again, Like, I'll take the record out of your hand. You'll never get on the tennis court. So there are little things that he could probably get better at, but Rune has definitely proven himself to be one of the best players in the world. This kid is going to be around a long time. He's really friggin good. But I mean, how happy were you for Rubelev? I mean, this guy like that.

00:30:42
Speaker 2: Was such a good outcome, especially because with all of the Russia stuff and him being on the right side of it and just a emotive, thoughtful, hard working, you know, head down kind of player, especially against a hot head like Runa, who's got the game. I totally agree and is absolutely on all surfaces. But emotionally, you just really really want rube Lev to win that unless you like the assholes, because rube Lev could not be I think more well liked and self effacing and funny, Like he's such a good personality. But honestly, like one of the things that I took away from the tournament, especially given like the kind of like little trash talk with Britz and Stefanos, the little like you know, Medvedev and Zverev, that was hilarious, especially because Verev is talking about how it feels to be a great sport and then people on the internet immediately posted that video of him tomahawk chopping the umpire stand, which in my mind should have been the second time that he was probably justified in being kicked off the tour. But it's really funny because I think now that the Big three are not as present in our space. And obviously Djokovic played, he broke a couple of rackets. He did not play as best as he often doesn't in Monte Carlo, but since he was from the tournament, it was sort of nice to see this other generation of kids sounding getting chippy and like competing with each other.

00:32:07
Speaker 3: I really liked that.

00:32:07
Speaker 2: I thought it meant this layer of the ATP was all kind of like interesting. I do want to make the point that Bozverev and Runa, who have like two of the more like kind of questionable attitudes on the court, are both the guys like most likely most likely to like double fault on match point.

00:32:26
Speaker 3: You know, I think there's something.

00:32:27
Speaker 2: About their like, you know, like tough guy act that is such an act where you're like, oh, who's going to double fault on match point, it's alex Verev. Oh, who's going to choke against rube Lev?

00:32:37
Speaker 3: It's runa.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: You know, it's like all the tough guys on the on the on the blacktop at recess. You're like, oh, really you want to step to me, and yeah, let's see what you got. Oh it's a bunch of eighty seven mile an hour second serves. That's what we're getting.

00:32:49
Speaker 3: Cool, all right, keep keep keep it up, big boy.

00:32:52
Speaker 1: It reminds me of my best friend had a party for her seven year old son once and the two most bullying kids at the potty I I've never listened. If you ever want to have you know, you have a son, but he's like he's like my best friend's kid, like really sensitive and really like adorable and very you know, he's obviously has two moms. My friend's kid has two older sisters. So you know, I think when you're around women, you tend to respect them and act a little bit better as opposed to So they had this seven year old birthday party and it was literally, I swear to god, it was like Lord of the friggin Flies. I couldn't believe it. Like once they all get together, these boys, they become little pricks and like even my friend's kid, I was like, what happened to you? Was so sweet? And he was like run around like a boy, like, you know, getting all in trouble. And the two kids that were the biggest bulliers at that at his little party that I was watching, you know, and watching all the you know, all the little groups get together and stuff happening, the two biggest little assholes. When it became time to sleep over at night, they were they both cried and wanted to go home. They wanted them picked them up a little bit.

00:33:58
Speaker 2: So funny was actually out of sleepover yesterday. And the one kid who was trying to bully everybody is the one kid who ended up crying. You're like, you know what, that's always the case, Like who's who's the little bitch? It's not the guy who's talking tough. It's going to be the rube lev who's like actually tough, who's emotionally mature and not gonna talk shit and then not be able to back it up. So for me, the ROUBLEV outcome was awesome. And I just want to say, I'm so into this cohort of men's tennis players. We've kind of gotten past the corporate Oh what a great, incredible person you are, what you know, It's just I'm so.

00:34:33
Speaker 3: Sick of that.

00:34:33
Speaker 2: Like, let's just be real and be athletes and kind of chippy.

00:34:36
Speaker 3: I like that. I'm here for that.

00:34:37
Speaker 2: I don't you know, don't be a jerk, don't take it too far. But like we're competitors, let's compete.

00:34:43
Speaker 1: I'd be afraid to say. I mean, listen, I don't mind the chippiness, but you know, be a little bit more self aware. I mean, like saz Vera to bitch about Medvedev, Like now, I find Medvedev to be one of the more sporting guys on too it. I mean, yes, he carries on, carries on like a bit of an idiot when he's bitching about the hard court not being a hard court, and maybe he's trying to get into the head of his opponent that way. But as far as he's playing, the guy just plays, you know what I mean. And if he had to pee at four three and the third he had to pee, I've never seen him do that. I've never seen him go off the court like he really Obviously he's.

00:35:10
Speaker 2: Not famous for being a bathroom brick.

00:35:13
Speaker 1: Now no, no, he's not Stefano Sitzapas going off the court for twenty minutes. But I just thought it was so funny that zvere I've had his comments about that. It's like, dude, just like, admit your lost, like you choked, Okay, this is the bottom line, Like get on with it, Paz, and then and then Medvedev to come into the press comments the next day, it'd be like, hold on, hold on a second time out, let's go through the litany of shit that's very ever's done. So I just think it's hilarious and I'm here for it, and I love the fact that Rublaf said in the end of his speech, I want to thank you all for the support because knowing where I'm from, I want to thank you for the support all around the world. And it's because he's been the one Russian player really that has written on the cameras no war, I want peace, Like that's just about as far as you can go, I think as a Russian without having to worry about your family being abducted and put away somewhere in Siberia. So you know, I'm super aware that these Russian and Bella Russian plays, it's really hard for them to say something publicly because I mean, look, you just saw I don't know if you saw this Russian journalist that said something about anti war. He's been put in prison for twenty years in Russia.

00:36:21
Speaker 2: This is what autocracies do. Like they're not fucking around with journalists. And if you're an athlete who's an ambassador and you're out in front of a bunch of cameras and you say something like the Pung Shwai situation we were just talking about, you are an enemy of the state. You know, like these guys don't like dissent, and so for me, yeah, Rubelev is so hard not to like. And for him to have a big breakthrough at a Master's one thousand like this after getting to a ton of finals, going deep but a ton of these tournaments and really being I think among this generation's like sort of most exciting players. Like the way he hits his forehand in particular, is so exciting. If you've never seen the meme of him looking like a cat on the internet yourself a favor and google that. I don't know if you've seen it, it's hilarious. He looks like, I'm gonna send us you over this podcast. It's incredible. So for me, just really really great outcome, really great tournament. And you know, I think for me, the clay season being fully underway with both men's and women's, we should shout out to Casper Rude who won the tournament in Portugal. You know, there's just there's just a ton of really good, exciting tennis.

00:37:23
Speaker 1: Although I would like you to explain to me why he's complaining about the fact that he doesn't get enough publicity after he won that tournament in Portugal, but yet it's basically the first time he's won more than two matches at a tournament all year, and yet he wins one tournament. He's like, you know, I just feel like I don't get enough coverage. I'm like, dude, you've played like shit for six months.

00:37:45
Speaker 2: That's why the thing I would say is, hey Ruble, Hey Casper Rude.

00:37:50
Speaker 3: We made an overture.

00:37:52
Speaker 2: I came up with a nickname for you, and an oatmeal company wanted to sponsor you. You want to show that you're fun and able to like be in front of camera and cool and taking a joke get at me.

00:38:02
Speaker 3: Tell your agent.

00:38:03
Speaker 2: He blew it like we're the offers still on the table, you know, Like are you no, of course not. An oatmeal company came to me and said, hey, we saw that you started calling casp Root oatmeal stallion.

00:38:13
Speaker 3: Do you think he would do it? And I said I don't.

00:38:14
Speaker 2: Here's his agent's number, give him a call. And the agent was like, oh, this guy just used too high rank to consider something like this. And I was like, making money from a cool idea? All right, cool, let me know when you change your mind. So it's ironic to hear somebody complaining about not having a high enough profile if they're gonna not be cool or fun.

00:38:32
Speaker 3: So listen, offers always at the table to be cool and fun.

00:38:36
Speaker 1: So the point of this is, Casper, it's actually not the ATP that are causing you to have no public persona and more exposure. It's actually your agent.

00:38:51
Speaker 2: The call is coming from inside the house.

00:38:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Okay, So let's uh, you know, Billy Jene King, Philly Jean King, that's a lot. Can we just call it the BJK cup? Yes? Can we just call it the King Cup? Anyway? The Billy Jean King Cup was played last week. To all the players that moved through. I just love to still see these players like lose their friggin minds when they went a match for their country. It's just the most fun thing. I know how much it felt and how proud I was to play for Australia and win big matches and it's still so meaningful to the players. So it was great to see all the outcomes last week. We'll get to see them all in the finals coming up at the end of the year. So congrats to all the teams that moved through. We're talking about it.

00:39:32
Speaker 3: It was USA mccoco, uh.

00:39:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, Goola can and yeah that that that team. They all moved They moved through, France moved through.

00:39:46
Speaker 2: It was some It's going to be some pretty good, big, big opinion games coming up in the next in the next round.

00:39:53
Speaker 1: Because Doesbarkina played for Kazakhstan got them through? Yeah, so yeah, I need to listen in front of you.

00:40:03
Speaker 2: But I imagine the Czech team is probably headed through.

00:40:07
Speaker 1: Check team played against Ukraine. You have your computer, why don't you look that up. We'll cut this out and actually have an idea. But so yeah, Ukraine and the Czechs played in Turkey because it was supposed to be a home tie in Ukraine because the last time they played was in the Czech Republic, and so whenever you play the team that you play against, the next time you play them in your country and then it flips back to the other country. So this time they had to play in a neutral zone. And then Barbara ka Jikova, I want to give a big shout out to buy who donated all her money from her play for the Czech Republic against Ukraine to the earthquake victims, and I believe to Ukraine's Ukrainians as well. So yeah, yeah, so you know, she's just, you know, she's just, she's a person that gets the whole big picture as well. She doesn't get talked about enough. She doesn't get enough publics solining.

00:41:02
Speaker 3: You know what she's doing.

00:41:03
Speaker 2: She's putting her money where her mouth is literally and getting headlines for doing the right thing. So shout out to barberberuk Kadjukova, Casparude take a page. Congratulations to the Czech team and the other team that's going on a spin. So we have an incredible, incredible lineup for BJK Cup in the next the next semis and finals, as we should because there's just absolute incredible depth on every team that we just talked about. All right, should we wrap it up? Should I let you get back to your Los Carbos vacation.

00:41:28
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, we'll keep an eye on all the things happening in the Porsche Stuttgart tournament, which is one of my favorite was one of my favorite tournaments of the year. Fabulous to see Egision take back playing indoors on clay. We'll see where she stacks up. Now. I'm going into her defense of the French Open. Clearly she's going to be the favorite. We've got just fabulous women's stories all around, and the men's is so open now I love it. Obviously, we've got Alcarez what's going on with his injuries. It's a real concern to me that someone who's eaten his age is really struggling with that week in and week out. But hopefully as he matures and gets stronger in his body, like Runa. To be honest, I think Runa maybe these cramps and situations will dissipate as he gets older and stronger and understands how to control his emotions a little bit and same with al Carez. Like Alcirez as well, is so fied up all the time that maybe that causes some tension in his body and it's causing him to have injuries as well. But you know, hopefully everyone's back at full force. Not what is not happening is Raphael and Nadal playing. What the fuck is happening with him? You know, his body is not cooperating. This hip is going to be an ongoing issue. And I mean at this present moment, he's not playing any lead up times to the French Open, so you know, I think if he plays Rome, that'll be a really good sign for him. But the injuries there are very strange, So I don't know. With the men's there's a lot of injuries that are causing some disruptions with the women that are all hopefully back strong and at their best this week and next week. So I'm yeah, I'm super pumped. I'm going to enjoy every second of my trip away, but I will be keeping a good and close eye on everything happening in the world of tennis with you, my friend, all.

00:43:10
Speaker 2: Right, until next time, enjoy the beach, enjoy the sand, enjoy the food you have a Mexico and.

00:43:17
Speaker 1: I will have plenty of mandar eatas and plenty of tequila, and I will bring back a sweet bottle of tequila back to the States because it's my favorite thing to do when I'm here, by tequila at half price in Mexico and then take it back to the States. So, Caitlin, great talking to you. Everybody else, thanks for listening to us. And I'm sorry again about getting fired up about the WTA, but it's a personal reminder of so many things that are lacking when it comes to them, and I think we just need to get it all better. Thanks everybody, see you next week. Back mate.