Combine Day 2: Lovie Smith, Lance Zierlein & Matt Money Smith

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Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL podcast, Believe in a thing called love. Just listen to the rim of their horror. I'm sorry, come again from the Indianapolis Convention Center. Welcome to Around the NFL. Dan hansis on a a riser filled with heroes, many of them anyway, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Seessler and the Wolf Connie Fox that I feel like the Money reads have been pretty fire lately. Like we're rolling in that department. I love that one. That's a good one, in fact, as a as a turn it up in my house? What's that here? How could West not like this? So there's a wolf, there's a wolf. There's a wolf. Oh yeah, there just such a great song. It is the lasting over the convention Center. Everybody loves it here. Um so great was Money's uh tag today that we're gonna have him on the show later here at the combine? Alright, still going. If Ricky's gonna leave it high the mix, I'm gonna listen to it. Beautiful Money and land zer Line are gonna be here a little bit later to give us a primer. I think Connie, you gave me that word earlier. That's right. I'm assisting in words today It's good to have assistance in words, because last night was a big one on the town in Indianapolis. We had dinner and drinks and uh. The fact that we're on the stage, Connie shows again a level of professionalism that you don't see everywhere. We faced a lot of adversity today and we have fought through it and I think that we're at four pm. Shut up, Greg, no victory. I I brought you guys a gift and it's on the ground because I forgot to bring it up in that bag over there. Can you grab that bag real quick. It's for you to um. This is something that I absolutely thought of. You guys were when it was bought, and essentially I just need legitimately excited to see what I need to get this out of my hotel room. The real gift is the bitterness and yelling that Eric is gonna give you later for having really nimble up and down the rise. I'm giving you guys all of my snacks because they cannot be in my room anymore. So I have I have a half a thing a Pringles, not half. I have a fourth full Reese's thins that are individually wrapped. These are good I had some popcorn in here, some fruit snacks that you would just be ordering all that stuff like one in the morning, chokate all No, I was just hungry. Um. So you know, when it hits, it hits you are you're a wonderful woman, and thank you so much. We'll give and because we are a gentleman, Erica, you get the first draft pick of the grab bag. Uh, Mark is a foodtarian. We're gonna slatch you in at four. But then you get to double up there for that seems fair, I mean not all the items seems slightly concerning what I'm looking at, and the and the pringles. I know I'm not supposed to mention them by name. Sorry, are it's it's happy only. Why can't you mention them by name? Not a sponsor and not a paid sponsor? Grey, you're a broadcast, don't don't give him. You can have the saying why pay for the cow if you're getting the milk for free? Yes, let's get into the show. Yes, Lance and money, we'll talk combine guys. They are in love with the guys that are jumping off the page as they begin the process here, you know Drews will begin Uh in a couple of days here in Indianapolis, right after we fly out of town. Um, because the press conferences for the coaches and general managers are over here in Indianapolis and that's why we're heading out of town. But the commons just getting going, so Lands and Money are gonna give us a nice primer on that. Also guests Galore Um Bengals director of player personnel and a leading figure in that organization's rise. Duke Tobin will join us, a former Chris Westling favorite. I remember a feature Chris wrote at the Combine about Duke Tobin. I think that that's a good example of he wanted to be a Bengals fan secretly that he enjoyed that they actually had a real personnel guy that wasn't a member of the Brown family, and at the time we thought had built maybe the most talented roster in the league minus their quarterback. And west was not a press conference guy where he's you know, marching around yelling questions at person a, B or C. But Tobin was like the like four or five questions in a row for that himself. Yeah, that, I mean, that tells you so much. If Wes was firing off presser questions. Also, the head coach of the Houston Texans, Lovey Smith, will join us on the show. But before any of that, less get you caught up on the news of the day from Indianapolis. Hey, whatever Tom wants to do, Tom should be able to do. He's given us all enough, I think at this point in his life. And you know, if he if he thinks he's done, then he's done. If he's not, then it wouldn't shock you. Believe it. I'll believe it when I see it. I believe when I see it. Josh McDaniels, new coach of the Raiders, long time offensive Consigliari to Tom Brady up there in New England, yet another voice in the chorus expecting Tom Brady to be back, maybe not this year, but next A little taste of this, uh, this day in Combine history. McDaniels was very loose and like laughing a lot. He almost as pointedly, presenting a different figure than he did in Denver, like knowing the mistakes that he made there. But it's it says a lot where we're at that he got more questions about Tom Brady than he did Derek Carr, who we don't know like his future and in Las Vegas. Yeah, well that is the power of Brady. Let's get into the news. Uh, big news around the Arizona Cardinals. Obviously we talked about it on Tuesday show. Uh, Kyler Murray and um all the drama that is around Murray and his agents. UM. Jeremymcguire asked mission statement about the future and the Cardinals said they want to back is all sorts of melodrama and then a little this is interesting out of nowhere. We learned on Wednesday that both general manager Steve Kim kind bomb and head coach Cliff Kingsbury a lightning rod figure are they are for the long term, signed to multi year extensions. Connie, this had to be surprising to you. It was to me. I didn't see this coming. But it's good news. It's good news for us because hopefully this means that there will be a resolution at some point with Kyler Murray because now they can focus on getting those negotiations done. Obviously, these negotiations for Kim and Kingsbury were being done behind closed doors because that is what's normally done. That's what's normally done with the players too. But this whole thing with Kyler Murray is playing out so publicly. The statement was so aggressive from Eric Burkehart, but he also reps Cliff Kingsbury, so there's a ton of communication going on between the two of them. Um Steve Come said that he's had constant dialogue with Burkehart obviously about Kyler, but I just I didn't see this coming. It was a bit of a surprise, and I wonder if it leads to a split though, because it seems like if you're Kyler Murray, this power struggle took sort of like a hard right turn into darkness. He's had just a terrible three weeks in terms of his que rating. H We talked about the messaging from the agent, you know, twenty four hours ago, and it's like, who does the organization back like we you know, we typically this is the Russell Wilson, Pete Carroll dynamic a couple. How would that have gone? Well, it's like they clearly back to coach in the GM, and it makes me just wonder if all these whispers that have been out there about Kyler Murray are coming from deep within the organization and that they don't want to look at this player as someone that right now they want to extend. He's forced his hand on that front, and it seems uglier to me than they, than we ever would have thought two or three months ago, this organization would be in this place. The more I read and see about this, I wonder if those whispers are coming from the very top or near the very top, because there was a column by Dan Bickley on Wednesday that ownership is very likely seething about Kyler Murray's recent reactions. If you know the Bidwells and and Bickley as a guy who's he's like the guy. You know how every town kind of has the guy as the columnists, he's the guy, and you don't need to know that much about you know, journalism to know he's that. You know where he's getting it from, and you know he's not just writing that out there. And he was doing a lot of speculating about how upset the organization would be, about how Kyler Murray has handled this situation and maybe how he handled the playoff game, and then he also presented the other side of the argument, which is that there are a lot of players who haven't been happy with the Cardinals organization for a long time, including this very week when Steve Kimes spoke about how much they would like to have Chandler Jones back, and Chandler Jones quote retweeted it with laughing emojis to the end of the line, like he's using up that character account and Tyrone Matthew, there's been other players that believe and this was Bickley's words, but I just think you gotta trust someone that knows the situation better than you, and I think it was very informative that you uh have a lot of players that believe this group and come who One person texted me this morning and said, like, what pictures does he have of the bidwell, because they just signed up to seven that that players think that time and Kingsbury say things very differently in public than they present themselves in private, and that they feel that they're a little too things well, And we talked about at the end of the season and I was getting on Kyler a little bit, and Greg, you were more in the it's a it's a cliff issue. And the thing that I did agree, I did agree with you on was that Kingsbury cannot get a pass for the way this past season ended. And that the program. Yes, I know they made it to the playoffs and they started great, but it was such an ugly fate. It felt like it negated a lot of the growths that you saw from the year, and it felt like it made sense that this was going to be an important referendum on Kingsbury this season, and you let the year play out and see where the organization is, and then you also can continue to track Kyler. Instead, they go all in on a GM and coach that to me still are not proven commodities, and you potentially isolate and frustrate the franchise. Course, well, what was up with twenty seven being the extension? What happened to twenty boar who gets a six year extension in the end? Very Super Bowl winners is like the Panthers and Sam Donald I feel like just picking up picking up extensions and listen for me, I'm wondering, um, why, like how this plays out in the locker room with his teammates Kyler Murray, Like when they see their quarterback scrubbing the Instagram and then doing this with It's an aggressive move. That was an aggressive statement Um to put out there, Like, how is that taken? Because I would be like, come on, man, what's going on here? In that article that dan Or that Gregor's referencing, talked about the fact that this is a player that, you know, the whispers, he took himself out of that playoff game that's not gonna look good to your teammates, refused to go back into the game. But I mean, in general, in general, it's just like that's the exact opposite message you want to send as I'm your franchise quarterback for the next half decade or decade, and that maybe he looks at the money he's making right now, I think he's thirty eight and pay for stuff for quarterbacks, and looks at baseball he's a two star athlete and says I could go to the Oakland A's and have a career that would pay me more money where I'm not putting myself in harm's way in an offense that wants me to dash to and fro with my feet. I think, I think this is I think this thing's happened. I think whatever the odds are and we're you know, this isn't a rainmaker here, and we're really not supposed to get into all this. But they're probably our odds of with Kyler Murray's going to be on the Cardinals this year or not, And I'm sure it would be you'd be picking the underdog to say he's elsewhere. I think I'm taking that. I think I think this market. Yesterday I said, we don't give up. Hope we could get a big domino here. Might It might take a while, because Bickley throughout Kyler for Deshaun Watson as one of the two major options. Almost that that they're trying to put that out into the ether as something like that the Cardinals next offseason mess. I can kind of believe it. But Dan baby with the bath water. I was saying that in general the quarterback movement, there was all this nonsense, and that we didn't know all this about Kyler as much a day ago, but all the other quarterback movement, I don't buy into it all until it happens. Wake me up. What is with the baby in the bathwater? What is that? Even never got it? In general? You would you don't do that. In general, you don't throw the baby out. The bathwater is probably soiled to some degree. You want that out of your friend? Who is that? Like a would that have been a problem back in the day, like whoops, throw away they like, it's just general advice. Yeah, if they didn't like it in the old times, you just leave in the woods or whatever. They don't do that right in the olden days. In other quarterback news, yes, Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is another huge domino. But I like Mark saying, uh, this one is a situation. This situation doesn't feel like it's going to end with Wilson playing for a different team, the Seattle Seahawks and their head coach. We're here, you'll probably be traded while we're at dinner. But that's that's fine, right, Well, that would be wild. But Pete Carroll spoke about the future and says, oh, we don't anticipate Russell going anywhere. At this time of year. You know, there's conversations about everybody. We're talking about everybody, and that's commonplace for us to have conversations with teams about all of the players, particularly marquee players, and that's not changed. It's been the same every year we've been here. So it's the same as it's been. We have no intention of making any mini move there. Um, but the conversations John has to feel those he always has, but nothing specific. That's what that's always annoyed me about Jamal Adams, now re member the Seahawks. He got so angry with his former team, the Jets, for picking up the phone when a phone call. We'll pick up the phone if you want to come to us with a godfather offer um. In this case, it would be Russell Wilson. I think that makes sense, But at the same time, I think they know they're still better with Russell Wilson, especially where Carol is in his career at age seventy. I don't know what to believe because there was a report out there that like anyone calling Schneider, at least, the answer right now has been he's not available, which would makes sense sort of, even if they were interested in tradeing Um. That would be the leverage move at this point in the off season. Maybe, but I just can't imagine it, and I don't see where where he would want to go anyway. It only makes sense to me in that the quarterback market right now is so bad for teams that need a quarterback because there's no one in this draft class. There's the free agent market is so thin. You have like who knows what's gonna happen with Rogers, and then Wilson is the other name, so a team could call up and just offer them like the Bank. Well, the one team that stands out to me because typically very conservative Ron Rivera on the quarterback front, the way they've operated with quarterbacks in Washington so far, he's talked over and over like you might have to go spend a lot and go make a big move to get the guy. But I just don't think the door is open from them because and I you know, I get all this could just be lies. Maybe no one on the planet tells the truth. But Russell Wilson also basically shot down the concept of going to the commanders um as a concept as well, so he has some choice in the matter. And if you're she was the organization, I mean, I'm still it feels like a name from a football movie. But it's not too late to change, Okay, I guess it is definitely the Crest, though it's too late, Carol. One thing I found interesting in that presser, though, was he was fairly noncommittal about Bobby Wagner being back. When you think the Seahawks. You think Bobby Wagner making a ton of money definitely not like a top three or four middle linebacker like he used to be, So that that could be a surprise cut coming up. Interesting that where would he was slotting on the old Greg Rosenthal free agency? What old one? Where is he in his career? I mean it's checking. You tend to over I tend to overrate like the name brand guys who you know. Maybe you get a couple of good years out of him when he shouldn't be that high bay probably in the top forty. In other news, thank you Greg for al right, where as Teddy must that's anyway, uh speaking Wednesday on Good Morning Football, which is a program on NFL Network, Connie, you are prominently involved at the weekend version that's right Saturdays. But that's not happening in the off season, so don't don't check it out. Get ready get excited for the return where anyway? John Lynch was on Good Morning Football, the general manager of the Niners. And yes, obviously the questions around the Niners are tied back to the reports about where is Trey Lance, where is his development, what's Jimmy G's future? All that, and uh, John Lynch says, don't worry anybody, it's floating ideas that were a little worried about tray lance. It's bull, it's bunk. You know, it's pretty obvious. You know. We we put a lot into tray lance, and we're loving the development of tray The development was was tremendous. I think Kyle did a great job of finding ways to develop without playing a ton of football. The fact that he got some action and got to go get a taste of it was great and I loved watching him get better in those games. You know, I tell people he's everything we thought he was when we when we traded a lot to go get him and more trays made of the right stuff, both talent wise and in his spirit. Who he is, the intangibles. Guys like playing for him, guys like being around him, and we're certainly excited to see what he can do. Yeah, Connie, Yeah, yeah, I mean the old the lady doth protest too much games. It's not that he's a lady, right, well, you know the saying another term from olden days. The key there for me was, you know, they traded a lot to get him. So now it's time for Trade Lance to deliver to make sure that John Lynch has proven correct. That's that's exactly what this is. Meanwhile, Jimmy G has to have shoulder surgery, and John Lynch also talked about that today and talked about the fact that a lot of teams have interests. He was like so open with Peter Schrager on g MFB bombs all over the place. I know, that's a that's like a for sale sign. I felt like, like, this is a house that's for sale that you just realized you have to get a whole new septic system into and now they're like trying to paper over it with like pretty pictures. You know, Like, first of all, there's so many things to have problems with what he said, we like Trai Land so much. We didn't play him after Jimmy G had a shoulder injury that he needed surgery from and that he threw the ball like completion percentage afterwards, like they should have played Trai Lands. They would have had a better chance to make the Super was it was such a glowing review of trade Lands season that was quite mystical or strange to us. I mean, that's not how it played out on the field. So John Lynch also talked to Amazon about being a color commentator, which it's weird. And they have a lot going on this offseason, uh Quis Guitar Kawan, Williams Lake and Thomas an arden Key, a lot of free agents who played big time minutes for them. So he's he's going to be a busy man. So it's time to get that focus back of the San Francisco forty niners. You know now that those negotiations did not pan up. Those talks by the way, Well you're saying, you're saying he had the saying anything. I'm just joking. But meanwhile, al Michael's is still on the one yard line. I know, either go into the goal line or you know, I kicked a field goal. I don't know. He's at least back at the six Amazon. Amazon has had al Michael's at the one yard line for three and a half weeks now, waiting to see if they can get a partner. He needs a partner. And I guess the questions about this deal, John Lynch, well what about Connie? Your question now, Michael's just how it's gonna work, what it's gonna look like beyond who's in the booth, who's on the road for the pregame show? A lot of questions and answer I know someone for t Sideline. Thank you. There we go. That's why I came on today. Uh. Finally in the news, before we get to our wonderful guests. Uh. First impressions of Mike McDaniel of the Miami Dolphins, the new head coach. Everyone fascinated with the man, big scrum reporters around him. Mark, I know you had boots on the ground. Are you in love with him? Or is it a Nathaniel Hackett solo joint for you? Not a solo joints he joins Nathaniel Hackett in that world. Greg and I were, you know, shoulder to shoulder watching Mike McDaniel speak, and it's just little, the little ways that he phrases things. Um, someone just asked the general football question and he could have just said, like coach speak, like, you know, we don't have an answer for that right now. The off season, Tom goes, we will adapt in ways it's impossible for me to forecast at this time. Classic alien behavior. I adored. He also said, Um, they asked about, like, you know, finding in another version of Deebo Samuel, he said Debo wasn't found by looking for the next Debo. I mean, I just think that he is maybe this thing in two or three years melts because like the football heads are like, get this sort of nerdy looking guy out of here. He's are more losses than for that that maybe the bullies in the media sending him out. He is a departure in terms of how he speaks, how he looks, how he does everything, and I'm on board. I enjoy it. I am on record when he was hired, I was a little I understond there's only thirty two big chairs. I think there's a lot of built in risk that he doesn't have control over around the Dolphins right now, so he's going to be facing challenges that are unique to him potentially here that could really affect the trajectory of the organization. However, I'm with you when he's a different dude. He's got a different vibe, he's got a sense of humor. All that stuff is welcome in our league. I'm so happy about it. I gotta plug in more on him because I was like I missed the president Margaret. He called him because we Greg and I both like mcda. I like, yeah, yeah, we we both got in on Hackett yesterday too, and it bothered Mark. No, no, this is really what you should have seen how mad Mark was when he found out that I didn't actually didn't. I actually a minute later turn around and say that I found it refreshing that you actually liked one of these coaches. Right. What two things about Mark that you you get to know is he falls in love easy, and he's very possessive. Well that's not all the qualities like, that's that's something that's just like you think you know me, but you don't know almost two percent of me. Now. I don't want to project too much, but I like McDaniel up there because he's one thing as a coach that I personally think we need more of, which is spacey representation. He seems kind of like a space he's a little spacey like and I and I've talked to people who worked with him and stuff like, he's a little spacey. You know, he's mind is drifting. You can have the biggest trait of Adam gaze, you gotta grab It's not in a bad way because look, I feel I'm a little spacey, emmaca. My wife is spacey. We come from long lines of families of spacey, and you don't usually see those those spacey type of people in the big space bloodlines. It's an experiment. Good luck to the men, not too much good lucky in the cs, but whatever. That's what's happening in the news. All right, let's take a break and then we are going to welcome in the great love Smith. Alright, this is real exciting. We are very happy to be joined by the new head coach of the Houston Texans, love E. Smith. Lovey, Welcome to the Around the NFL podcast. Thanks to have mel exciting day time time of course. Uh you know, uh, you know, Texas guy, high school product and a chance to lead his professional football team is pretty neat, very cool. Plus you get the vibe of our show right off the bat. I appreciated you. You seem to want to help Colleen when her chair started to break as she sat down. Very did not a gentleman down south, very little actually that that's that's also they also you know you were on the riser do in your press. Uh this is impressed is like family obviously love me now us talking, but like our our colleague Mark Is often laments that men's fashion is just not moving forward. But when you have the beard like that, that's almost a fashion accessory that raises everything. I did want to just know this because you know, when we saw you in the past, the beard was not part of the milieu. But you've made a sharp and wonderful aesthletic right turn here. How did it come about? Well, times change and you know, getting older, number one, and you can't embracing that a little bit. But you know a lot of times you go on vacation you just kind of let it go. And I did that one summer and uh, my wife of forty two years loved it. So it's been with me since. They're like, how how's uh this first month been as Texans head coach. One thing that struck me when you were up there, you were asked about the Deshaun Watson situation and you said you were, uh looking forward to putting it in the rearview mirror, that you you couldn't wait for that to happen, Like, what will that happening solved one way or another du for you as a head coach? Well, just Uh, just said, I mean it's there, I mean elephant in the room, whatever you want to say. Um, you know, Sean is a heck of a football player, and you know, sometimes divorce is a good thing, and but you just wanted to play out as much as anything. We're gonna have a two season and we need to have clarity on some things and uh, but time will do that and I'm confident of that and I can't wait for that day to get here. You said, you said that excellent players need to be playing somewhere just out of curiosity when you take over his head coach or the d C. Obviously before so you were in the building, but the Sean was well, he was in the building, but he wasn't on the team last year and all that. Did you have a one on one talk with the Sean about whether there was any path forward with him in Houston? Well, I I've had uh discussions with with Deshan just from you know, last year of him being in the building and of course knew who he was and enjoying my time talking with him. But uh, we haven't had those type of conversations since I became the head football code. What are some of the advantages of being able to build this thing from the ground up. I feel like so many people look at the situation in Houston and they talk about how many needs are there, and it's all about the negative. But that's got to be positive for you to know that you can build this thing from scratch almost exactly. And my glass eels have a fool and when you do build it from there, I mean, your guys coming in, all coming in, we understand the situation, but we all look at the opportunity as much as anything. That's what how how my life has played out is about getting opportunities. And we have that. We have a model on on what we would like for our football team to look like. Uh you know, as I said, you know, being the head football coach er, you kind of started the process getting the staff together and guys that believe in this way that we're gonna win football games. But it is about the players. The processes started being around Nick, say year. Last year we got a chance to you know, get our profiles together on what we're looking for at each player. And I think we did a pretty good job of getting some guys in last year. But to build on it, you know, from game one to game two, there's normally pretty big improvement Year one two year two, were expecting a big improvement to I mean we saw growth from Davis Mills. Yes we did. And you know, you at this point have to You're in charge of the whole thing, and you're gonna ask you have to get a billion questions about who's gonna start Week one and who who it would be? I mean Davis Mills. I think we just had some draft nicks on us that he would be favorable to any of the quarterbacks in this draft. But do you feel like you need to go find competition for him or or do you feel comfortable rolling with him at this point? Davis Mills in general, I had a chance to be around him an awful lot last year. Got a chance to see its demeanor, how you handle situations. Uh loved everything about him and I his error course is pointed that way. But every position on our football team, you know, injuries happen, you need more than just one guy that you feel comfortable with. So that will be our plan, as we know, build this model of what our football team would look like. He was better than the top two picks in the draft. So it's a little it's a little sore subject with Danny here. He's a just fan. Yeah, it's just that we watched the game the last four or five games of the year. It's a fact. I'm bias, of course, we start with that, but I did get a chance to see and there are some good young quarterbacks coming up through our league. But I thought Davis compared with those guys. So that's why, you know, Stanford guy smart. He's a better athlete than people give him credit for. Also, so and you know, another year with pet Hamilton's you know, coaching in We're excited about it. I'm really interested about the perspective that you gained from you know, this is your third head coaching job, having been in Chicago and Tampa Bay and then going down to the collegiate level at Illinois. So what did that How did that change the way that you view things and and run things. Well, I think every stop along the way I learned something. You know, just experience teaches you so much. To thousand and four, when I first moved into that head coaches seat, there was so much I didn't know. I thought I knew and a lot of those things, I mean it is different coming in. You know, I said some of the things as simple as I'm gonna call defenses. I never understood why you become a head football coach and all of a sudden you quit coaching. You know, last year is a defense coordinated. I coached the nickel positions. So some things like that, and and just on how I'm gonna do things, Um, the best of who I am and in all experiences I've gotten from all those other situations I've been in. You know, hopefully the Texans will benefit from that. You hear that all the time. As you mentioned that Jets Robert Sale, it was written a lot d C in San Francisco gets the job. He's in more of a CEO role. He's, you know, keeping an eye on all sides of the team. But it makes sense if you're expertise, if you will is defense, you want that head coach to be prominently involved with the defense. So I hear that. There's a lot of ways of doing things, and um, but I I feel pretty strongly about that. And you look at for some reason to defensive coaches don't do it. There's a lot of offensive coaches in our league. They're all called plays so again I feel corfortable doing that way, and people say, well, there's not there's so much other stuff you have to be concerned with. Will Yeah, and there's enough time to do that too. I mean, you were part of a Tony Dungee staff and then of course you had a similar defense in Chicago that changed the league because when you installed that Tampa two in Tampa, within five or six years, half the league is playing your defense essentially, and it's changed over the years. I kind of laughed that you got a question about, like what do you think about the new too high safety trend like taking shape of the league, and you were just like, like, do you know who I am? Like what what I wanted to ask was like, how is your Tampa two though, and your defense now different than it was twenty years Yeah? In a laughing way, but but everyone pause, so you could google my name, sir. We will wait, well, because uh, I just think that covered two in general. Now you know, most games of one based I'm talking defensively based on whether you can play man coverage. You have to be able to play man coverage, but there's own coverage involve and what it is man coverage? Three D you're playing quarters, the corners or some positions by themselves. The receivers is too good. That's why I covered I feel like covered two. We in our family of defense feel like covered two has to be a part of the defensive package, and most defensive in NFL have some form of covered two. I haven't gone, I can't. I don't know if I've ever gone into a game what happens without having some form of covered two. I've always wondered, when you're calling a game on defense offense, how many people are screaming in the headset while you're trying to run the show down. Well, um, and there's a lot of people, but there's a lot of people also screaming in the stands. You have to be able to lock in, of course, and have Tom vision a little bit. But we, of course, we have a process we go through and everybody know the role a little bit. But that's not much of Bend issue. Love you Smith, thank you so much for joining us. Best of luck. We hope there's resolution at quarterback and then it feels like then the franchise could really move forward, and it sounds like that could happen soon. But we were in a waiting position. But good luck to you this season. Thanks for having mel. There goes Levy Smith. And also it's time to say goodbye to Connie Fox, who is such a busy woman that you have to head over across the street to Lucas Oil Stadium. But we wanted to thank you. You've said it all. Oh you know what, I and I brought all the gifts. I'm gonna leave the Pringles out specifically. No, I mean, are you worried though that the people across the street who you're showing up a half hour late for it to do this podcast are going to realize where they are in the pecking order versus the around the NFL budget. It's something I've thought about, Yes, and I'm gonna have to smooth some things over, but I can I can handle. Thank you all right, We'll see you at the Old Steakhouse today. Ye, there goes Connie and let's keep the show rolling here, Lovey Smith. Nice dude, he's got He's gotten three big chairs now. Doesn't happen a lot, and he certainly knows this is going to be his last shot um to make it happen as I I mean, he went to a super Bowl, right, yeah, against the Colts historic game. He really this is that's why I hate that phrase, like you can't, you can't. You gotta put people in the Hall of Fame if you can't tell the story of football without him, And it's like that. I don't like that because, like I would say, that's kind of true of Lovey Smith. I don't think you need to put him in the Hall of Fame, but I think it's true. He's sort of You should have brought that up to the during the Internet, architect of the defense that changed the league and was part of the first Super Bowl with two black head coaches. It's very rare for a blackhead coach to get a third crack. It's almost never happened. Only white coaches almost have gotten that opportunity over time. So he he's been a part of our lives, especially in the NFL for the last five years. Who is the last head coach that got a third job period? Any head coach? Yeah, well, this is why this is why win Western alright, toaster was hard sometimes while while Ricky finds out that information, uh, let's throw to our next conversation. Uh yes, A favorite of Chris Wessling a man that helped rebuild the Bengals. Duke Tobin, take it away us. All right, this is very exciting. We are happy to be joined by Director of Player Personnel for the reigning a f C champion Cincinnati Bengals. It's Duke Tobin still as a lifelong football fan, a little strange to say that the Bengals have gone from a place where they were long for a lot of fans um also round status to now becoming a superpower almost overnight. How does it feel to be a primary architect behind that happening? Well, we we had something else in mind, just other than just being a f C champ. So um, you know, you get the taste of it, you want to get back, you want to you want to finish it. And so our focus isn't on where we've been. It's not about the past. It's it's where we are right now and where we're going. And uh but yeah, it feels good, it uh it. I'm happy for our players. We had a lot of players that kind of came together and uh and and really played for each other. And the culture that Zax brought is great and so it's nice when that's rewarded on the field. We had Brandon Bean on the show and he was talking about, you know, the way their season ended and heartbreaking fashion against the Chiefs before you slayed the Chiefs. Um, have you been able to go back and it kind of absorbed the super Bowl and how that ended? Uh not really, No, I know how it ended. Yeah, I don't know that there's much to do about it, right, I got it ended and we moved on, and uh is it easy. It's it's not easy to move on. I don't know if I'm thoroughly over it yet, but I'm I get up in the morning and my feet shuffle and here I go. That's that's about where I am with it. But no, I haven't. I haven't dwelled on it. I I don't go back and grind on the tape and see what could have been a I know. Yeah, Well it's such a quick turnaround, you know, not to make it all about us, but it really hurt that taking that extra week out of the season, you add one on the back end, then you take it out of what normally would be a couple of quiet weeks and then you you guys are going straight from the super Bowl. Here it's only two weeks apart, Like, what has what are those two weeks been like trying to catch up? Yeah, it's, um, it's your your team evaluation. You're you're planning for free agency, you're planning for the combine. You know, our scouts have been working at it, so they're they're they're up to speed on on what's going on. But um, yeah, it's uh, you can't dwell on on what just happened. You gotta just you know, grind forward and see you know where where you're going. And but yeah, it's there's not a lot of time. There's not a lot of time. It's a long season, and uh, you know, our players deserve arrest for sure. For so many years, the Bengals were categorized is is, you know, not spenders and free agency. Uh, smaller scouting department, maybe doing things a little atypically to some of the other NFL teams. But in recent years that's completely changed. You spent a lot of money last offseason and then the year before. What happened inside the Bengals organization to take on this new approach. I don't know on the on the spending thing, I know what said, I don't know that that's really ever been the truth. Um, you know, over the past, uh, you know, the beginning of the last c B A, you know, over over the different tranches in that we've been an upper half of the league spending team. And so I know what's said. Um, I don't know why it's said, but cash two players. We're spending on players, and uh do we We continue to do it. Sometimes we spend on our own. Each team is different. Sometimes you have to spend to keep your own. Sometimes you have to go out and and recruit others. And so we've gone out and recruited others because our team demanded that. And this year it will be a blend. It will be a blend of trying to get our guys back that that we know and like, and and going out and seeing if there's guys that can advance the ball for us. But in terms of our scouting staff size, it fits for what we do. It's what I want. I like working closely with guys. I like having a tight knit group. I like relying on the people, uh that that we have. I like letting them grow in their role and feeling a sense of importance to what we do. So if you got the right people. You don't need a ton of people. Now you need a ton of people if you don't have the right ones, and then good luck determining who's this show? How do you? How do you? How do you determine who to listen to? If you have a ton of people and you don't trust any of them. But if you've got a small group that you trust, you know who to listen to. You think you spend a lot again this year because you've got a lot of cap space again, well we we will. We will use the resources we have to make our team the best we can make it. And we've never had restrictions in that area, and and we'll continue to do that. But it's gonna be a blended approach because we've got guys that we want back. We've got a number guys that we want back, and so we'll see if we can make that happen. That's a director of player personnel answer that you just got served, Duke uh Tobin. You know, it's interesting because everyone looks at how this season, not just how it ended, but the playoffs that Joe Burrow struggled to stay on his feet, he got taken out a lot in the divisional playoffs, happened again in the Super Bowl. So there is this oversimplification that comes from bozos like us to say that's it, Bengals fixed your offensive line and you'll be right back in the big game. But at the same time, it is oversimplified, dude, But isn't it also kind of true that it is the offensive line that that you have to focus in on and improve to take the offense and the team to that next level. Yeah, you know the thing. I'll give you a player personnel director and they're on this one too, because I know you like him. But here here's the thing. Yes, the sack numbers were up, but the other data to look at is we had two receivers go over thousand yards, a third almost we had a running back over a thousand yards or quarterback led the league in passer rating or maybe with second. We're a top ten scoring team and our yards per play we're a top ten yards per play team. So the offensive line factors in all of that success as well. So, yes, there is the piece of sacks, but there's a lot of productivity in between those sacks. And and so we've got guys we believe in in want to and want to work with, and yes, well, we go out and see if we can get better. Absolutely, We're gonna go out and see if we can get better at every position. But that's every off season, that's that's what we that's what we do. So yes, is it something that we're going to look closely at and see if we can improve. Absolutely, But I'm not gonna sit and say that the the offensive line is a reason we didn't finish the last two minutes of the Super Bowl. But there they all have one thing in common. They're all a f C champions and and my hats off to them for the job that they did there is because everything is saying it's true about the production of the offense was excellent. I think, and we've talked about on the podcast. We love watching Burrow. He's such a great, exciting, charismatic guy that you actually get where he has the serious knee injury. Year one, he gets takes more sacks than any other quarterback in the history of the playoffs. Now they played four games. Obviously you've played four games, so that factors in as well. But just the idea of yes, he's going to produce because he's a baller in that offense is great around him, But how do we protect him so he doesn't have his career impacted by all these hits. Well, you know, I've seen Aaron Donald play against other teams other than and and you know, we kind of had murderers row defensive line on our path in the playoffs, and and those guys do it to other teams other than just us, And uh so maybe part of that is, uh, if we don't have to play Aaron Donald and Christian christ Jones, those guys, you know, Oakland's outside edge guys. And I mean we we had Tennessee's defensive line was one of the very best in the league. And and so our guys had a tough, tough chore and uh, you know, hats off to Joe for hanging in there and make at work with with a very tough chore for for an offensive line with One thing I loved about the Bengals this year was how you handled your own division. I mean just absolutely taking the Ravens apart twice. I mean just you've been there for so long. He enjoyed. It was just like it's it was a long time coming, and something about it felt like um sports justice on some level. But was there a time for you maybe when those games were happening compared to where we were in September, thinking oh damn, this team is good. Like like you know, in the summer, there were a lot of these narratives about you know, all this stuff, you maybe took the wrong guy in the first round, all these other things. Everything kind of panned out well for the Bengals. You were healthy, you peaked, But whereas it was a moment you just said, we're sitting on something special here. Um. You know, we we felt that early in camp with our team and how the unit was coming together, and I think how people rally around Joe and how the defense was starting to form up in and play as a real unit. And so we felt it very early. You know, the plan is always to win your division. And you know, we got nothing but respect for Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Believe me, they're great organizations. Didn't hear Cleveland mentioned there? Well, we we didn't. We didn't beat Cleveland twice. We actually we actually lost to Cleveland both times. So but your question on Baltimore and Pittsburgh, Uh, that's the plan. Uh, we we respect them a lot more to know that that's that's not gonna be the norm. We're going to have to battle with those guys and um, you know it's it'll be fun. Don't try to put Duke in the corner. Put Duke in the corner. I attempted to. Didn't work. What is it like about Jamar Chase that makes him so special? Because he's someone like we've watched and you know, it's almost like I'm not sure what he does that makes defenders look so bad, Like how like how he gets that out because it's not like just pure speed, it's not like raw athleticism maybe all the time. And yet I would put that rookie season with any rookie season in the history of the NFL, alongside Randy Moss. Well, he is fast and he is athletics that I just mean like there are other receivers that way, and he elevates the competition different of all the traits that you need and he really lacks for none of them. And the strength in his play is is really important because because he can run through jams, he can run through guys on his in his hip pocket. Um, and I think the confidence level he plays with and then obviously, you know the cohesion he has with our quarterback, which which was important to us, and and he's obviously got that and and and they have a real vision together when when they're out on the field, and it's it's just kind of natural for him. But uma, he really doesn't lack in any kind of physical trait. And then his confidence is great. Do you feel like you can kind of like kick your feet up and not worry about your skill position players? This entire group is going to be going up against those Browns, and they're signed through four at the least, Higgins, Boyd, Chase Burrow mixing all together at least for three more years. That's just seems like a kick your feet up on the right. That's a pretty rare that, you know though, that's a pretty rare thing for a team to have all those young players all together locked up long term. And and we're happy that they're with us and and that the plan is for them to be as successful as any you know, quadruplet or whatever it is. You know, and you put Tyler Boyd in there as well, and and you know c j Uzam and Drew Sample you played really big roles in what we do and yeah, it's uh, it does feel good, but we're never satisfied we can get better. We're gonna try to get better. If we can add a piece that that will give us a niche that we think will make us more explosive or or harder to defend against, we'll we'll do that. And same on defense. I mean, we've got a lot of guys up that we want to get back because we think the unit's cohesive. But you know it's every year is a is a slog. I think we got forty six guys under contracts, so we got a long way to go before we get to ninety. I don't want to break news on your behalf, but I feel like one position you will not attempt to upgrade this offseason is kicker. Let's I mean, let's talk about it. I mean, let'll talk about Duke Tobin and the Bengals knocking their draft out of the park. Jamar Chase was a brilliant receiver in year one. He wasn't even the best player in the draft brelda to the position because Evan McPherson was perfect, especially when it mattered most in January. I know, obviously you thought highly of him to take him in the fifth rounds. A lot of teams don't even do get into that business. But I mean talk about something having a vision and then it hitting exactly how you want. You can't beat what McPherson gave you. Uh. Really an impressive guy to be around because he is, uh, he is tough as nails in in Uh. He he just doesn't get rattled ever. And that's what we saw. And and he certainly got all the physical traits you want. And and in my humble opinion, we we've really got the best special teams coordinator in the league and and guy that can can instill confidence in guys, uh, fixed problems when they when they when they come up and uh, you know in Darren Simmons and and so that combination was was fantastic. So yeah, we probably won't be adding at that spot. If you have if you if you have one, you have enough. And mc pherson is the player that made me realize that I'm very old because he looks thirteen to me. He was kicking in an Alabama high school like four years ago and now he rules the world. But let me try to make a headline here, But how about Evan McPherson watching the halftime show at the Super Bowl. That's just inappropriate and unacceptable, right, Duke. Uh, I didn't see it, so I didn't see it was where it was worth seeing. I wonder if you have any stories of like Bengals fans over the last month, because unbelievable we haven't experienced. You know, we we had a co host on our show and who was no longer with us. He was a big fan of years. Actually wrote wrote a great article about you. I remember like six years ago about yeah, Chris Westling building, Um, how you built up that first roster in you know, you've been with a couple of coaches now into today. But we had all his his brothers come to the Super Bowl, uh, to watch you guys, and just meeting all the Bengals fans that were out there for the game. I don't know, there was some sort of joy and something special about him. I didn't know if you if you had any stories. It was awesome to put our fans on display for the world to see, because now the world knows what we know. Their their football savants. They love the Cincinnati Bengals, and they'll show up and uh, it was in Tennessee. The crowd we had at that game and then afterwards, uh, you know, it was fantastic. The amount of people that were still in the stadium cheering for us at the end of the Kansas City game was fantastic. I mean just really impressive. And then out at the Super Bowl, it was Judai nation out there, so uh, you know, just it was great to see the world recognize, you know, what we know about our hands. They were still happy afterwards. That was the thing that got me, Like they were just like, well, we made here, this was fun. They were still in a good mood afterwards. It is It's crazy. I'm a Jets fan, full disclosure, and I've never been able to enjoy going to a Super Bowl, but walking the concourse um at the game and seeing all the fathers and sons and we're talking like middle aged men with their elderly fathers, and you're thinking this might have been the first time they've experienced Super Bowl together, and like there's a lot of responsibility on someone like you and on the head coach because these teams are like the fabric of the community in a lot of ways. So I'm sure as disappointed to the way the game ended, you gave people that experience on all the way. So good job. We we feel that. I mean, we know we're we're beholden to the city and uh and to our fans, and that's you know, we we do the best work we can. We work as hard as we can because we want the product to be something that they're proud of and and our fans have been great. Do you get noticed around town? Um know, I'm pretty incognito. I know you got the hat on right now. I normally wear a hat. Yeah, and uh and just kind of bald hide my bald head. I got in a fight with my dermatologist, so he he got the better of me before I came. So, well, you gotta listen to the dermatologist. Duke, thanks so much for coming on, and best of luck this offseason and uh everything that's to come in. Appreciate it, guys, thank you appreciate it all right, There goes Duke tob But I liked I like to cut of his jib Sessler easy to get along with. It concerns me that most of these guys now seem about half a decade younger than I am. They used to seem like adults and I was a child. But uh, I can see why West dug him. I think that he's got incredible, like historical organizational data on the Bengals. He's been there through it all, and he's got to be feeling himself right now in that city. He's five years older than you, buddy, about that, very unassuming in that hot I just felt older. It wasn't like an expensive hat either, it was just kind of the one that they gave him. I think we said he had been to the dermatologist, so I think maybe it had some some something going on. The Speaking of Chris Wesley, it was something he learned. You have to protect the dome when you shave it down. Alright, alright, alright, this is I know it's been an action packed show, but we've saved the juiciest breakdown of the draft you could possibly find on the internet for last. You're gonna enjoy it. Uh, let's welcome in right now Matt money Smith and Landsier Line right after this break and here they are Lance deer Line, Matt money Smith. They'll be anchoring the NFL network coverage throughout the combine and now they join us on the around the NFL podcast and boys, we had a nice dinner out insult on mass. Uh. Greg and Mark weren't there, But it wasn't because they were left out. It just the way it happened. They weren't invited and we were organically not in. I wouldn't even have thought about him. And then you just made it into a total life know how Dan? How Dan managed to join us? Lanson I we're walking out and Dan comes strutting in. It was just off, puffed up shake, What are you doing? He's like, I just could go up in a room, meshes burger. It's like we're going out to dinner. I had an whole game plan because Mark and I had a couple at the hotel lobby right after our taping on Tuesday, and they said, all right, I'm gonna slow down a little bit. I'm gonna smash the smash burger or steak in shake burger, and I'll be back at nine o'clock. Then we see these two guys in the lobby and I go out and uh we had a nice time. Yeah, we did. We did. Dan's tipping point came at about one Ricky, what wasn't one one thirt Okay, about one thirty when I say, hey, we're all we're all gonna go, and Connie was with us. It was a great crew. It was Colleen and Sarah and uh. And I'm like, hey, we're all ready to go, and Dan goes, you don't have time for one more. I was like, because he had bought the previous rounds. So I think, intimating I'm sorry to che skate. I'm like, sure, you one more? Fine, So I go to the bar. I get him his vodka soda. Oh you got me that, and so I handed to him and I'm like, well, I guess we're having one more. I feel like we're talking about a different guy right now because it's very interesting story. And uh, and I know it's an audio format, but perhaps you guys can help me with the visuals. So Dan gets the gets the drink and he's got his empty in this hand, and he carefully aligns the bottom of the glasses, drops it into that and then he takes a sip and um, I see him go struggle to swallow it, and then he just looks. I'm telling you, he looked at the Tito's and soda for the next ten minutes. And I finally go are we ready to go now? He's like, yeah, we're ready to go. This is that's a typical for Dan dan Is. Typically you wouldn't know how many does and the Irish could buys out of there. Usually I had my game plan, yeah, and the game plan never fails. But then when I audible, that took the night in a different direction. I'd say that was probably stay with the plays. The audibles often do not work. But he was a pleasant drunk. Oh yes, I had a great time with you guys now and again. As we said at the top of the show, it's not about what happens the night before. If the real pros combine week, you get up the next day and you perform on the stage of ours. Right, we had a two PM called Times, So I don't know what that's He helped so much, it's like a regular war hero. I saw Gregg in the gym this morning. He barely paid attention to me. I was like, hey, Rosie, he's like Moon spp walking right by. Oh no, no, no, I haven't seen these guys for two years. I come back in and it's a new Alpha on the set and it's like, I don't know what happened over the last two years. Something has happened that you surved all of very hungry for power. That's nothing, nothing's happening. We we are taping this in such a way that Lovey Smith is coming up soon. You're having a very nice conversation off to the side, which we all get caught in right now. We're friends. We've in friends long enough Lance that I knew I would say that you wouldn't be bothered just here. Just reacted like, Lance, let's go, that's exactly what yeah, and said I think, sir, And when I jumped out, we were all taking it back. But at the same time, Greg and I've been noting this recently. You've had these random acts of masculinity that keep topping up lately, and this is just another one in the list of something has changed. I believe they're not realms, the realms, random axims. There's something that happens. It's very special. Uh, in every young man's life when they turned forty three, maybe they become a man exactly. And that's not to suggest you weren't masculine, but possibly to suggest that's previous. It's a curve. It's going up all right, all right, let's talk football, Let's talk combine Lance your I don't know why Money doesn't have one. I don't know what's going on. I was, I was, I was just signed one last night at about twelve thirty am. Alright, and we're serious. Can you do a mocked rep for its like it's twelve time? But it so? Yeah, So keep an eye out for the mat Money, Spike Moch ask the coaches while you're right there there. I'm looking at Lance's one point oh, and we go up to what five? I'm only going to go to three. I like that. That's an alpha movie. I've got one coming after the Combine notes, So this one is just kind of a whatever mock. I do mine after the draft. It's always so I shouldn't get Sometimes I worry. I still have nightmares about the Eric Fisher Luke Jocal draft. Uh. When I see Evan Neil Alabama tackle number one, is that telling me this isn't gonna be a fun draft or is he just such a great fit for the Jacks that that's where we start and there's still plenty of fun players to get to as we go through this adventure. I don't know. I would call this draft fund Bob. This is not what I would call a fun draft. I think it's a draft and necessary. This draft is like when your grandma would buy you socks. You need the socks. You know, you need the notebook paper or whatever. But this is this is this, This draft is about things you need. I'm not saying, listen, I'm not saying they're not luxury items that are available to be had in this draft. I'm just saying, when you start having tackles that are slotted number one, it's a nuts and bolts draft based on need at the top. And that's what this is. And I think the flashy stuff comes in the middle of it, like I actually think the top five or six the fun stuff to me begins in like the middle of the first round is when a lot of the fun stuff happens. And I think there's some really high upside players to be adding a second and third rounds of the draft. And so while you know we're not going to have the the headliner migrating scales seven point or higher, what I think we have is we happen to have for for hardcore football fans and draft people, there's some really intriguing talent in this draft. It just happens to live in rounds two through four, I think the most. Yeah, but the Fisher in joke a year people weren't that high on them. Then they want like that, people said, and they were right going into that draft, this might be one of the worst drafts we've ever seen, and it turned out to be. Almost No one out of the top fifteen made an impact in that draft. But I don't get the feel that that's the case and tis at all. It's just not as many headliner people like. They like Neil He's giant, he's nimble, he's gonna be fine. And they have and they have a quarterback, you know, And I think if look, if if put it this way, if Nick Bosta were coming out this year and he was the number one pick, would you be like, is their sizzle there? It's not a quarterback, but it's just you know, yes, there there would be. And I think, so you need pass rushers, you need guys that will protect against those pass rushers, and you need quarterbacks. That's that is the foundation of football success. So in the case of the Jaguars, they need someone to protect their number one pick who got wrecked last year, and it just it's the way it lines up. And you know, when you don't have a quarterback there, it's hard to trade out. You just you're not gonna get enough value, I think trade back. And that's kind of where you then maybe start talking about the notebook paper socks character of the draft. Yeah, and that's why the Texas. You know, the guy to me that's the most fun in this whole draft is a safety. And that's not typically going to be something that sizzles. But how often do you have a guy who's six four who's gonna grow into a two thirty pound frame, who can play as a linebacker over a tight end like a you know, like like a guy like Travis Kelsey, a guy who can play on the back end, like he's a single high safety or someone who can play in the box. He's a freight train as a hitter. Um, he is a talented cover man. He's a really he's a good football, high football character guy. Guy who's gonna be good in the locker room and interrupted real quick. He's Kyle Hamilton's It was the build up and went back to the Jets at four and I think I took. You know, our team took our team Jamal Adams number six. We talked about last night at dinner. Isaiah Simmons, another hybrid guy that maybe hasn't fulfilled expectations. But this guy is different. I just the safety Isaiah Simmons was becoming like Kyle Hamilton's gonna play. Kyle's a big safety. He's like if Dave, if you went all the way back to like David Fulture. I mean, he's an old school two plus pound hitter who happens to be a great athlete and who's diverse enough to cover. So I think you know, from a sizzle standpoint, safeties don't typically do it. But when you watch this I showed you last night Dan some of the hits that he has. He's a real dude. Now he will come up and smack you, but he's also versatile. So I got him as my highest rated player in this draft. The thing is you're not drafting safeties first. That is a true story, by the way, Ricky. Yes, we were having dinner. In the middle of our Dan was eating his chicken fried chicken with hallepenial gravy and uh and I said, Dan, I think you need to see this. He said, uh, watch this. I'm gonna search Kyle Hamilton's HiT's like a Train and twitter that he was like a video game and had audio over it. I put in my cell if I was pretty proud of that was pretty nice. And then we got push a t. We had a hot drafts argument between us about whether or not he'd be available at four. Yeah, might be. He's probably the best player in the draft, and maybe the Texans take him at three just because he's that Derwin James kind of difference maker that can really remake a defense. I think Greg and I missed the event of the year here. Potentially I have a man crushed already from Marks level of annoyances. I know I am starting to do stand comedian waiting on us. So you did miss quiet, I can tell, I can tell attempt to make up for it. Tonight's rage index and Greg's masculinity index both going up like this. Mark wanted nothing more than to be left alone for dinner last night, and he was so I think everyone got what they wanted. I got what I do, what I want, and that's what I want. That's how that unfolded. Speaking of alpha male, um you got Kenny Pickett eleven uh lands Yeah, obviously. Let me ask you this way. Kenny Pickett's in last year's draft, which was much more fruitful quarterback wise, is he uh top first round pick? No? Um, he is in the discussion with Davis Mills and he goes ahead of Davis Mills. Kenny pick it would have been the for sure next guy up. I think you would have been drafted ahead of Kyle Trash So I think he would have been a second round pick. Yes, he would have a second round pick. I think he would have been a top Another huge selling point for this draft. I think you would have been a top forty um, a top forty pick. So, but don't you think, like I know, we're we're looking at mocks and everything and it's early for that. Who do you think in the pre draft process, because there's always a quarterback that rises has a chance to for everyone to fall in love it. Because it seems like that the tape heads just think Malik Williss ceiling is going to be higher, and that he seems like the logical guy that is going to go away higher than anyone is projecting, at least in January and federal well, I think he is because but it's not because of anything on tape. His tape is not all that good, to be honest with you. I mean three different games with three interceptions. Um, the second half of the year was really terrible. Frankly, his it wasn't good. But the thing is he has rare size arm strength, his arm talents like Jay Cutler arm talent, which is really really high. I know Jay Cutler's for some reason kind of a bad word now, but Jake Cutler was ridiculously talented coming out and could throw the ball from slots and and platforms that other people couldn't. And then he is what he is is he is a better runner than Jalen Hurts. And this is my thing, Like I started thinking about this came to me when I was riding up Lamar Jackson back in eighteen between. I said, you know, so here I was two thousand eighteen. I'm at my grandmother's house in Kansas, right enough, Lamar Jar as it were. And then what happened was I started thinking, you know, Lenn Lamar's completion percentage, and I realized I just watched the Astros won a world series completely legally and fairly and and I thought, well, you know, one of the things in baseball, they care less about strikeouts now and they care a lot more about home runs. And when you think of it that way, Lamar Jackson's a home run hitter who's gonna strike out some, but you live with the strikeouts because you get the home runs. And when you look at when you look at it that way, Malik Willis's flaws that he has right now, you can never go wrong with a guy who's who is an elite runner. And he's an elite runner because even when they don't throw the ball, they find ways to beat you. And I mean he is a really fantastic running not to Lamar's level, but just below it. And then from an arm talent standpoint, I think he has better potential than Lamar Jackson as as a thrower. But Lamar was more consistent coming out of Louisville. So that's why they build their entire team around Lamar. Like that's the that's the problem. So if you dropped Molie Willis, are you gonna make that kind of commitment one or two? Is there a bridge? Like that's why the free agency process and like what we heard today was such so depressing for those of us that want to see franchise quarterback movement. It sounds like we're not gonna get any of it. So I think that's kind of where that that's why, like, to me, there is some interest because it does feel like this group of people likes Pickett, this group of people likes Willis. I think there's a group of people that like Matt Corrella most out of all these quarterbacks, that feel like he's kind of the athletic, He's got great arm talent. So like that to me, is that does add some intrigue. I don't know where guys are going, and that's the thing. I don't know if they're gonna go on the first I just wrote an article for NFL dot com. They every year that's it's the same article. They plug a different quarterback. Here, the potential fits for two. Here, the potential fits for Willis. But the thing that I found when I was writing it with two, I had like three or four guys, and then that with three or four teams, and that was it with Willis. I don't know. I mean, my leaders in the clubhouse were Washington and Pittsburgh, and then just below that in a different levels. See. I think I think if he falls, I think Pittsburgh would consider trading up because I think that Kevin Colbert wants. I think it's a very interesting storyline to see if Colbert and his last draft does what Ozzy did in his last draft of them about it on the show yesterday and any pressure he didn't gave us a very little laughed at the question and then didn't didn't really answer because you're cute. You want to laugh at a question. Try this one ups ready? Would you rather have any of these quarterbacks in the draft or Mitchell? Oh, that's a little good. Gross, That is an awful destiny. What is happening? We've avoided here. I saw your tweet earlier. I did it just to twist your nipples a little bit. Questions like what happened? Like Mitchell Trobisky didn't play a year and then everyone who never gave up on the Mitchell Trobisky could actually be good has come storming back season. It's like they don't want to have to answer it. It's like he'll marry your daughter while throwing for six point three yards per attempt. Yes he will. Um, Now you know it's interesting because Mitchell Trobinsky is almost in that Kirk Cousins level. Of His stats are way better than you think they are based on what people say about the guy. They were way better than I thought. I got an art with my co host on the radio and he's like, Mitchell Trobinsky is not that bad, not that bad. But it's also he was the second pick of the draft, so you know, and the Mahomes factor, and we watched him play fifty games, and that by watching those games, you could see he was not nearly as the status are relevant, but he is the next one. Everyone has this hope for a for a backup quarterback, and so the hope is maybe there's a resurrection of Mitchell Trabinsky. I would rather money. I would rather have somebody from this draft quicker way for Jesus to come back around, right. I feel like Mileek Willis might get a little bit of it. I think everyone thinks you can you can find a Josh Allen now like just that you can if you have that level of talent, don't worry about some of the tape and some of the numbers, and you can build the thing around. So you said some potential Hm swung away from that for a minute. Everybody was like, we gotta stop basing this on trades. We gotta look at accuracy and coming off of these playoffs, especially when he looked like the best player. I remember when it was back to back small quarterbacks, when it went okay, Baker Mayfe and Baker played well that first year, and then it's like, Okay, Kyler Murray, we can buy into smaller quarterback from a system. We can buy into it. Now, Baker has has. If you if Baker and Kyler and let's say Matt Crowl was in the draft immediately preceding those two, Matt crow would be a more talked about quarterback right now because everyone would there subconsciously would because money money hit the point right now. Off the Josh out the year of Josh Allen Willis is the guy, and Justin Herbert Willis is the one who fits into it a little bit more than Kenny Pickett. So obviously two years ago, Justin Jefferson blows up Jamar Chase. Obviously this year now we're being told that this is not a draft that has that type of transcendent talent, But in our league, it's not unusual enough for a rookie to pop off immediately and be a big time player. Is there a skill player tight end, wide receiver that you can see stepping into the right offense and becoming a Pro Bowl player. It feels like it's a good wide receiver, drect. It's got some depth. Yeah, it's got some depth. I don't the last two years way deeper. I thought last year was a fantastic wide receiver draft. Um See, I think Chris lave is a guy who can work all three levels of the field and can be a possession guy, a touchdown guy, a speed guy. He strikes me as one that could do that. I think, um, you know, Jamison Williams a percent could have been if he were healthy. So for you know, fantasy football guys from a dynasty standpoint, you obviously want to want to keep him in mind, But I don't think. I think Garrett Wilson is going to take a little longer than some people think because he has a hard time getting off press and that's the first thing you have to learn to do in the NFL, and sometimes sometimes it takes time. And I don't know what Money's thoughts are on this, because you're you're on the West coast watching that's what you know. I talked to a scout on the West coast who loves him, and I don't see a guy who I think runs very fast. I don't see a guy who separates. But for me as an evaluator, I watched DeAndre Hopkins just murder the league, and you could have said similar things, but I thought he was a little bit more sudden with some of his movements. And so I don't know where to to place a six ft five receiver who wins all the jump balls like he's just so explosive. I mean, I think that's the thing is the juice doesn't show up. But like, what's the old Marty Schottenheimer line. He's he's gonna beat in the rito's off your head. I mean, that's what Draken the other day, and I was like, I got that kind of me. I immediately wanted to go rewrite the scouting reports. I said, Okay, I better, I need to go put that magic word. I need to put explosive about this wide receiver. I was listening to him today. He is someone that grew up watching Westerns with his great grandparents. The good bat in the Ugly was one of the first movies he ever saw. He's he had a huge game against Alabama. He spent times hunting. He hunted pigs with a knife. Trailan Burks, this is my dude. Yeah, I'm looking at Mark's notes. I just think Casey forgot. He put in green highlighted words next to Trailon Burs man craft. He just seems to fit. And the mid he didn't. He didn't trust the yourself to remember that. But number one on a bunch of lists at the start of this whole process, still remember one. People who don't have him number one, and they don't know what they're doing, So you got the right crush. Hey, I didn't know he liked I didn't know he hunted a hog with his bare hands and a knife. So I just raised him to number four on my list. So thank you for that information. By the way, the next thing Greg will be doing as his alpha male tendencies ramp up. Let's not lose control on that front. Now, the Westerns things, I'm gonna back him back down a little bit. But Trailon Burks is like six, He's two hundred and five ish pounds, is what he's gonna be he's he's got more wiggle than a J. Brown. A J. Brown is his company's got more wiggle. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands. He's tremendously competitive, but he's a physical specimen like a J. Brown. When you see a J out there, and everyone comes up with the same comp a J. Brown because when you see him, guys who are two hundred and twenty five pounds who play like he does, you don't see a lot of those guys in the league. But he's not somebody who played in the slot. Now. He played a lot in a slot for Arkansas because that's the way they wanted to get in the ball as quickly as possible and said, go Trey Long, go and uh, he is, You've got the right man. Crushed to me, he is far and away the best wide receiving this draft, far and away. Was that for Sizzle? It's good? How about you? Like, who's the guy that you have? A man have bias. I always have bias, you know. I mean when wide receivers are like Drake London, I'm biased. I like that. I I fight for the West Coast. We don't get enough attention when it comes to college football conversation, You California produces the best players. It drives me crazy. Um, Birch is impressive. I mean he's he's he's gonna be all muscle and people are gonna get decidey. He's gonna put up big numbers. Um, the tight end group is good. Who am I going to mention Greg Dolsitch because it's the West Coast, But he's gonna run really fast. He's gonna run crazy fast. So is there anyone in the next couple of days you know we're taking this before the you know, the combine events start that you think will just like become the story because of what they put out there. Well, I think Greg is one of Greg Dulsich is one of those guys from u c LE because DJs get hot on him now and so it's gonna roll downhill because DJ is gonna be talking about him a lot. He's gonna run really fast and then tell us how that bothers you. You're gonna I mean, listen, listen. DJ deserves all the credit he gets, But the thing is a lot of people. He has to step on a lot of people's backs to get all the way. Listen, I know I know he did you see him come in today with the sweater, just to give it a little like it's just me, guys, just and I know he's got beef with you, guys. I'm gonna take up my head set. While by the way, and his his pay is. I love DJ. We we go back and forth on players all the time. Um, he's done a great job, like when he put justin Herbert Ye in the draft. He's fantastic. Never fails this. I mean that has got to be at least the thirtieth time you have referenced age building about it like it's one heart beat away. Here you are. It was in the big chair now no, and and they floating on the preference. I wish it wasn't you that had the chicken fried steak with cream gravy. I wish it was Daniel Jeremiah that. Okay, Daniel, would you like somewhere of this skillet bread with butter. I'll give you a I'll give you a name that no one's talking about. And it's because I saw him at the nflp A Bowl and from the I would say the first five minutes of the first practice I was at, I was like, hell is that guy here and it was Sam Williams, well miss and Sam is gonna test. He is going to test through the roof. He's gonna get drafted in the third round and by the chiefs, and everyone's gonna be like, why did he slid? And you'll find see why he slid And it's just like he is a complete freak of a defensive end. He terrible against the run and a monster against the past, like just really good. Another big test is gonna be from West Coast Kyler Gordon from so Trent McDuffie's gonna test well, Kyler Gordon. I don't know if you know his background. Do you where's your Do you have notes on him that you know I did, but it's in a different file back at the hotel if I went, listen, get your let's get your highlighter out here. He was a He was a dancer. And when I say dance, like like at eight years of age, they said they believed he was gonna be a Broadway dancer. That's how like a stage dancer. He was heavily involved in kung fu. He was heavily involved in kung fu as well. He will also knock your face off, he's gonna jump about vertical so dancer kung fu. That sounds man crushworthy. Yeah when you said, I thought you just say the bullshow. And then all of a sudden, Broadway came out and I was like, bad, no boy show. No, it could have been either one. This is how he was. Texans have their men, all right. Excellent. Gave us a nice taste, getting us on our feet a little bit as we tried to figure out and navigate this follow obviously, Lance and Money all over NFL network and the dot com throughout this process. And uh, thanks for you know, the app of course, the appets right, Money, thank you for taking care of me on the way out of at Prime. We'll do it again tonight. Sounds good. And uh, Lance, you're a hero and that that shows the cheap chap let. No we're not. We're getting one more. All right, here it comes. You should have said no, because I probably wanted to put up a fight. But anyway, then you got that story, so you got your money's worth, all right, Thank you, Lance, Money, There they go. Those men are educated on the topic at hand. Well, even if they weren't, we wouldn't know. I mean, they were able to sell it, but we don't have no idea what it would have been. Funny if if they just decided before the segment we're just gonna throw out fake names, we wouldn't have stopped him. Oh yeah, you know Kyle Karbowski, like, you look a little closer at the u r L of his mock draft and it's not actually dot com. It's like MFL dot com. I was like, oh no, uh no, that was good though. It's it's interesting, um when you start to kind of dig in and get excited the mock draft with your teams and whatnot. By the way, what do you want for the Patriots to come out of the first round of the draft. I haven't thought about that. I guess a wide receiver just because they keep they keep messing it up and they one thing I was thinking about talking with Lance and and Money, it's like, if you're a GM, you should just draft wide receivers. The last two years, if you've drafted a wide receiver in the first three rounds, almost all of them have been incredible and better than their draft pick, except for Nikil Harry. Like literally almost everyone has outperformed their draft pick. You got like Terry McLarin in the third round. You've got a million different people and they've all like been drafted too late, like all the receivers are And I'll raise you a Denzel Mims. It's not not always my point that the hit rate has been high. The receivers have been great and they need him, So that would that would make me most excited, Dan, What I do have a question that you you the whole dinner thing. Did you come home to a bag full of um shake shack that you ate at a later time you had already purchased a nice dinner. Listen, A lot of mistakes were made last night, and all I can tell you is I paid for all of it in the morning, alright. But again, the true measure of a man, the true measure of a man as a broadcaster, as a pro in this city, this time of year, is do you rise to the occasion the next day or do you stay and pull the curtains closed and call out sick? So what time are you a winner? No? I witnessed some things early on in the combines, before I even knew you guys, that I was amazed by the performances of some people much had a much tougher schedule than we do. But well sometimes it has been us though, I mean in the past, just to be totally accurate. So no, that was that was. That was a tough night, and but we have recovered and I'm looking forward for our final evening in Indianapolis. It's a lot of fun here and I do hope that we will be back eventually down the line. It's been a fun ride here in Indy. Probably not next year, but I expect to be back. And if we're away one or two years, that will only make it sweeter, like this year is a little sweeter after after missing Gregg. It is a little wind up doll that the league is gonna love. This is the best place to do it, but they're change the game on us. I would like my job because if you don't, it takes up all of your day and then you just don't like life. I still find the answer lacking authenticity. But that's we can move forwards, all right. So that's it from Indie Um. However, we have one more show coming this week. It's the Free Agency one oh one special Greg's annual list on dot com and we are going to pull it apart like putty, then lighted on fire, then get an extinguisher out, pose it down, and then mold it back together, put it right back on the shelf where it was originally. I'd like to do a two point oh. I thought about that for the first time actually, because I am immediately I had some people responding to the one oh one, you know, and some people I trust, multiple people, and I immediately like, oh, yeah, well they're right, I should I should move him up or down. It's like I would I would like to have more information, like like Teddy Bridgewater somehow being about that's all. That's like, there's that much difference between Teddy Bridgewater and Andy Dalton. Save it, save it for Friday. Just now you know it's coming baby, like a freight train. I can't believe what you said that Lance. By the way, Lance, let's go. You've barked at him. I mean, no one unless you have some sort of like fragile ego is going to take that personally. It was just like telling him, um, let's do it. Let's go. Well, you're like, we're the former boss who sometimes forgets that you're the former boss. You don't bark at a he's a coworker of yours. And when you say that, nobody, nobody on the planet would be offended by that. I think that's what you're saying. Your misread that's um their problem. Oh you're pulling the old I'm sorry if you were offended, card, I'm not I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry. This is what Dan and I were dealing with for half a decade. Just let the listener now, all right, Thank you everybody for listening. See you Friday. Until then, this is the Old Zuser, the Old Boss, an old Mark seiler with Ricky Hollywood. Un till Friday. You know what to do. Heed the call. M