Matt Rhule Fired, TNF Preview & "Spicy, Feisty or Frisky"

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Speaker 1: The Around the NFL podcast. I didn't really understand today's segment before we started, so never a good time. From the Chris Westling podcast studio, It's Around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansa's heroes here, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, and yes, today's segment, I'm excited to have the conversation UM about spicy v Frisky as teased on the Flagship show on Sunday night. Mark did address me privately in the newsroom, curious, slash apprehensive about to hold it, about just how long it would be, UM, and I said, just let it flow through, you bro. Just sometimes you gotta let the segment have a free flowing conversation. I hear like when Greg says free flowing conversation, I know what that means. What does it mean? I? First of all, this is the long way for you to start the episode. Why because? Because because what happens when a segment goes totally south and just lands like a hot air balloon filled with rocks on a countryside. You'll you'll get texts saying sort of, you guys, I don't really think that you understood what was going on there. We've got to be a little more focused. So I'll go out of my way and say what what was your thought for this? Because there's no lead up to it. And then you turn around and say it's like, oh, you're overly concerned about the segment. You're not free flowing enough. I will. I'll be as free flowing as you could possibly imagine. We got this Mark today. I like it well, I mean, because it's just simply twist and bend into the narrative that fits your Wait a second, wait a seconds. I'm just saying you came to me and said you were you were you had questions about how the segment was going to go, and I said, let it flow through you. I'm gonna start recording our conversations. I think that's the next Absolutely excited about what's occurring. I mean, I think that's the next step in our relay ship, is only having conversations that are recorded, most of them on the podcast, but even outside the podcast record them. I think it makes a ton of sense at this stage. And also, Mark, don't get mad at me, of course not because there's a different you have a different battlefront to deal with, and it's uh, it's a different colleague of ours. If you remember Sunday show, Um, after a Brown's highlight. You had some things to say, Well, someone else had some things to say back. Let's listen. What is happening? And man, DJ, you want to talk about skin of your different? I mean DJ worked for the Browns and it didn't go great from what I recall, So I mean he moved on to the Ravens, which is a more successful Daddy's laughing at just laugh at them? Wow, Sessler? Really after after I've spared you from from all of our heat. First of all, so many things wrong with this whole thing. Okay, First of all, I was with the Browns for two years, one of which was a ten win season, which I don't know if Sessler's familiar, having been a fan of that team for a long time. Those don't come around very often. So that was the first year. The next year four and twelve, we're gone. I came to the Browns from the Ravens. So he's got his timeline. I mean, buck like, I felt like he's the most knowledgeable of the around the NFL guys. I feel like he's the most respectable. And the sad thing is even as ridiculous as this is he doesn't lose his standing because that's just how bad the rest of the group is. So, you know, just just disappointing the way around from Sessler. Not want to let facts get in the way a good story. Oh yeah, let's move on. If we have any other clips from un respected podcast, maybe uh, if Panetta has something to say, let's let's run that in the future. Let's just keep the around the NFL stuff off here. This is a respectable program. I don't want to sell it with those guys. By the way, they don't even they don't even send that podcast that anymore. He just comes in here and they do it because it's part of the contract. The bikes aren't on anymore. But we caught that with some parabolic microphones. Yes, Mark your response, I can't stay out of these um quasi uh feuds, but I and I not. That was not what I was aiming for there, But I would mean he took a shot at him. It felt like you were showing a little bit of your Brown's fandom too. You were upset in that moment. Well, because the only clip that I have from that moment in their um their excellent broadcast. I'd imagine other otherwise, was just giggling at the way the game ended. I didn't hear any I didn't hear words. I just heard giggling like that's you and I So I I found you were offended by that missing another kick because I haven't thought about it since I made that comment. But um, I would say for someone that has respected the acumen is so high as DJs that he professionally made the decision go to go from. I assumed he went from the Browns to the Ravens because he was becoming more intelligent. He went from the Ravens to the Browns during that era, some type of disconnect mentally. That's that's I'm asking a second question now. So spice, see if you're spicy, you're just spicy. Spicy food stays spicy for the most part. If yes, we'll leave it there. Good response, though, but I will table my issues with you because that does me no favors to continue down that path. Well, I just I didn't think that I had done anything wrong, but I want to redirected for sure at someone else. That's that's a well well weathered strategy you need. You want to redirect that sessy energy elsewhere. So yes, we will be hitting frisky or spicy in the NFL as we enter week six. But and of course the Thursday night football preview, which I know we're all pinching ourselves Prime Time Washington at Chicago. But before we do any of that, let us hit the news. Do you follow the Eagles with all? Paul, Yeah, I mean, my gosh, you guys are the number one, the only undefeated team wa to real way to really back. Not the number one, just four, the number one, not the number the number one warding to Dan hands us Power Rankings today. Thank you Paul Rudd, and the Eagles are no longer number one in the Power Rankings. That was from that Kelsey Brothers podcast. Um, and you could check out my thoughts and Steve Weish's thoughts who filled in for a under the weather Connie Wolf. That's why she's not on today's show on the Power Rankings podcast, Man Rudd is plugged in. Rudd is plugged in on the Power Ranking I was so confused about what was happening in that drop until the very end, and then I should have known it's Paul Rudd given his boy Dan some pop right right justin Maybe could have used some video there to give the context there's necessary, but you know, justin that that's okay, buddy, that happens. We're all good. Uh, Matt Rule is out in Carolina, as we kind of predicted on the Sunday Night Show. After a one in four start to the season, the Panthers fired Rule on Monday. The team announced defense of passing game coordinator slash secondary coach Steve Wilkes takes over his interim coach. Of course, Wilkes had spent one season as head coach of the Cardinals before getting whacked there. Some might say unfairly so. David Tepper is the owner of the Panthers, and David Tepper is sick of losing and sick of the team that he bought four billions not being relevant. He was asked by a reporter what constitutes success for the Panthers moving forward? You've mentioned the phrase getting over the several times. What does that look like to you? And it's it's winning, uh, winning, winning, winning, He possify that as far as the number of wins, is it a winning more this year than you did last year and have the appearance of winning more than you did last year? Looking like you're going to win more than you did last year. You know that definition. You know, I don't think we're over the hump the tiger blood explanation from Temper, who also noticed noted that Greg part of the reason why he decided to make the move now he didn't feel the team was competitive and the effort was where it needs to be in a blowout loss to the Niners, and he saw too many damn people wearing red in his stadium, the colors of the forty Niners. Matt rule history in the NFL. Yeah, quite a boring um two plus years as head coach. Like I thought they actually had some things going schematically as an offense that first year. That got you thinking, okay, like there might be something here with the way he coaches up offense. But it really went into a shell the last year and a half and it was tough to watch as the defense got better the offense got worse. He didn't really seem to have a problem connecting with his players, That wasn't it. It was just like such a blah higher. Ultimately, people wanted me a rule and David Tepper, you know, they sort of talked about like he won the battle for Matt Rule, but it ended up like that was not a battle that you wanted to win. Matt Rule came in with the Temple and Baylor rebuilding scenarios that maybe Temper thought when they really connected. I mean, there were these long features about how Temper and Rule had this great connection when they met, and it was just like he was like, I'm gonna get my guy. Well no, but so all these stories seemed to start that way, right, all these great meetings behind closed doors. I saw the real guy, the real coach. And I think Matt Rule is a personable guy. I mean, from what we know he's been on our show, is seemed like a good dude. But but I'm not saying I'm not it just that I think it's a lesson in the It's another example of high fluting college coach learns that the NFL is a completely different job, and also it's an impossible job when your quarterback play gets worse and worse. And I know they tried to court Matthew Stafford. That didn't work. They thought about Deshaun Watson, that didn't happen. I mean, I guess had you gotten Stafford, you'd be in a better position. I'm not sure they would be with the way this team is built in general, just what had the way the franchise is. You cannot survive into year three with the quarterback play they've had. And Temper, I think is gonna learn because yeah, I mean that was all his decisions. Well that's but that's they also could they went, they tried to get guys to get them Donald and Baker we're planned vs. So I don't know, mart say. One of the thing that like Temper Tepper watching that press conference right there, I've been attached as a fan to a team with some ownership issues, and the first thing he did was give rule a sixty two million dollars seven year deal that agitated the rest of the owners. And now when I hear him talking, now he's got to talk football and explain what he's looking for. I think you learn as an owner that it's not easy just because you were a billionaire hedge fund guy or whatever it is you did somewhere else. This is a completely different type of job and it takes a lot of mrs sometimes to get it right. And this was a big miss. It was a big I mean, the results are the results. I think there is some I guess this would come off as a defensive bit of Rule, but there's to me some chicken or eggs stuff going on here, because if you don't have a quarterback, and not only are they not I know we had Teddy and we've had those conversations in year one, Greg, but they were an average offense and like one of the worst defense in the legal year one, so average offense, and we've talked about their defense did get better under his tenure, but the offense cratered when Sam Donald was brought in and played poorly then got injured. Then you go in and you bring in Baker and Baker stinks too, and it's like, yeah, maybe Matt Rule can't coach at this level, or maybe he was just in a terrible situation. And that's this is what happened. What Tepper said, I think that was telling in the press conference was he wanted the balance between coach and GM to be more evenly balanced in the future. Rule did whatever he wanted. That was the thing. He gave Teddy a contract guaranteeing him two years that when no one else was going to give him that amount of money to do it. And then decided to just eat the second year out of nowhere and then gave Darnald a contract and trade that no one else would know. They gave him an extension, they gave him guaranteed, and so like he was doing things that no one was making him do, and he was ultimately in charge of personnel. You got the feeling they still haven't fired Scott Fitter. They said that's our GM right now, but he might not be in the future. And tempers made some pretty big mistakes. I mean, he is in litigation because of a half built practice facility in South Carolina that's literally there and is abandoned, and they're having you know, a big problem with with the state of South Carolina right now. And they oh, by the way, they still don't have an indoor practice facility, which almost every NFL team has. So he's he's come up against some things. And I never like when you hear like, we want to do the opposite this time around, you know what I mean. I mean about the ownership where you hop Scotch every two years between and Dandy your thing. You're right, like you could defend rule because he didn't have a quarterback, but the ultimate lesson for anyone taking one of these jobs is if you don't have a quarterback by year three, you're out right right you need it. You need it, and they never got it. And the draft, even with some misfortune with this past draft class, it you know, there wasn't a set up well for them to go get somebody then he could tie himself to a young quarterback that maybe would have bought him more time. It just wasn't happening. Part of it was Stafford and Deshaun Watson didn't want to play there, right. You know, Stafford made it pretty clear he did not want to be on the pants, according to reports, and he made the right decision because you know, he has a Super Bowl ring in Los Angeles, by the way, that half built facility in South Carolina. It's pretty symbolic for where they're at as an organization right now. Probably also has squatters, big plans, there's big money behind it somewhere, but all of there's a stall right now, and it's just like what is happening? You feel a little fitteve Well, who had a great run as defensive coordinator in Carolina. I don't know if you guys remember that, like five years ago or so, UH taking over a situation that just feels like you're kind of wasting your time for the next stop. UH. In other news, NFL referee Carl Cheffer's explained himself or attempted to UH the shocking call um on Monday Night Football in which UH, Derek Carr gets taken down on a sack by Chris Jones who yanks the ball out, falls down because well else he's gonna go and they throw the flag and the crowd and arrowhead and good job by them. I really enjoyed the way the Kansas City home crowd really gave it to the officials for like ten straight minutes. He he was shaky. Did you see that clip of him announcing a call a little bit later? And he was shaken, I think because of the crowd reaction and because of Andy Reid yelling at him for well, it doesn't feel good as a human. So you have that situation, and it's obviously a lot conversation right now around the protection of the quarterback the to a situation obviously in play. But this has been going on, UH for years now, where we've talked about the personal fouls and the hits of the quarterback. Uh. There was a report I saw this morning that the NFL is going to re examine the situation. Should this be something that you can challenge or take a look at before you decide to make game altering calls. The Chiefs they won, even though they were on the wrong side of that call. The Falcons on Sunday they lost and maybe because of Grady Jarrett getting called with another bogus penalty on a sack of Tom Brady on third down late in the their loss to Tampa Bay. Brady was on the his Let's Go podcast, Let's listen in a lot of talk today, a lot of conspiracy theories. Um, was it roughing the pastor Jim, He's funny, it was? It was? It was. It was a long hug, a long, unwelcomed hug from Grady and he was in the backfield all so, as I said after the games, I don't throw flags, and what I do throw his tablets. I didn't have one accessible with that. He had a hell of a game. That's I'll leave it at that. Greg. That's your free flowing conversation. That's pretty good. That was good. It's also I believe at halftime of the Monday night football games there maybe in the pregame, so people should check that out there you go. Um, you know, I have a little bit of an issue with Brady on this. He's forty five, he is really the face of the NFL. He's arguably the most famous NFL player who's ever lived. Um, just like in terms of like the game, like just come out and say it, like, yeah that you know that call went for us and it it It helped my team win a game. But obviously that might be something we want to look at because Grady Jarrett and the Falcons are fighting hard and made a big play there, and maybe we should make sure we're getting a play like that. Right. Why does he playing the cute winky uh you know grab butt with Jim gray Card there? Going by the way, he's signed a massive you'd ever want up play the grab butt with Jim gray Card? He signed a prodcasting deal, So you'd like to think that he'd have some critical thought already about things like this and give us a fair take. But I just don't like that he has these pre written lines that I suspect he didn't write like I feel like his social media crew. Uh you know he came in that was that was a pre written he knew the question was coming in. It's because they were gonna bang the tablet bit and the long hug. The long hug thing was Greg's Patriots fandom is just simply about four thousand miles to Brady fan, and I'm a Bucks fan on some level, I'm rooting for him to play well. But the way he handled this, you know, it's it's not a big deal to me, but it's not great. I just don't know what the NFL's going to do. I I these calls are going to happen, and you could change the rule about the um landing on the quarterback potentially like the full body weight, and that's what was called here in theory. They could pull back almost never pull back on these safety rules because I think the full body weight part of the rule is extremely difficult to officiate. Basically it is um. But like terrible calls like this are going to happen. So the only question is whether you can have someone as the extra official who's already there and they're already making some changes from New York and from the stadium, the sky judge where things get changed and it nothing was challenged and they're changed quickly. They're like, oh, actually we fix something. Can something like this because because because officials are gonna make mistakes, it's impossible. Like Patrick, the thing that bothers me is people get so mad at the officials and like Patrick Mahomes makes big mistakes every game, these officials, it's impossible. We've been on the sidelines for games. You can't. You can't get it right, Like they're not gonna get it right like that consistently. It's impossible. It's like I'm with you, like I I don't think it should be ref must get it perfectly right, or all of Arrowhead Stadium is ready to verbally Lashman's like to get reviewable. It's just simply that simple. Quickly, you don't need to stop down the game. You don't have to worry about pace of play. Have New York look at it and buzz down and be like, no, we're not gonna go We're picking up the flag. That's it. Why is that so hard? And hopefully hopefully these two incidents happening, but over twenty four hours is the impetus, but you know it probably will be. And this is annoying but this is the way the league works. We see it all the time. It's gonna take some team getting robbed in the playoffs and ending their Lombardi dreams for something to happen, because it feels like the only way rule changes happen now is when some team gets ripped off in January. Well then they can a month later go to the little Competition committee and slap each other on the back and announce a rule change. We we think that'd be a quick one. But that play last night I think had enough weird things going on with you know, the ball coming out was was part of it too, And they even answered after the game that it was the full body weight thing and he did seem to put his arm down, which is looking for. But I've read the rule. It's there's no like exact right answer. And we like to think that common sense they would have fixed that call immediately. But that felt like it could have been a four minute thing. I like Joe Bucks uh comment on it? Uh about Christian is he supposed to disappear. That's exactly what he's supposed to do to not get a flag. So that seems dumb and they should change it. What else was dumb on Monday Night, Davante Adams super frustrated and we get it, and you could hear uh the Monday night football recap uh Greggy put out for around the NFL of the Raiders nine loss to the Chiefs. What a game. One of the games of the amazing game. It kind of made up and made up for the Thursday night game which opened weeks week five and horrific form. And then we got a great close at the end of the on on the back end there. But anyway, Adams after he has a rightfully overturned reception that would have maybe won the game for the Raiders with their kicker and automatic mode overturned. Then he runs into Hunter Renfro on the final route on fourth and one and then the game's over. So he's hot, he's furious, he's upset. Some random cameraman walks in front of him in front of the tunnel and he shoves him to the ground and just walks away. It's caught on cameras. He's getting killed on social media, and he did reach out. I don't know if he reached out to the guy, but it's a freelance worker for ESPNS. Monday Night Football. He tweeted almost immediately trying to get his arms around it. Sorry to that dude, and then he at his locker disgusted as well. But just not a great look mark for Adams who just looked basically like a bully. I mean, that's a bully behavior right there. Yeah, because the size differential and everything else, and you're a football giant, football player and pads. This is a essentially a media individual. I mean I it's emotional, it's going on. We don't know what's inside his head. For me, it's like you apologize, you settle it somewhere if you need to, or on the phone on face not just like say send something on Twitter. I hope the guy sees this, bro, you kind of that was a bad job. Just connect with the guy. It was not forward. I think that the fact that he shoved him while he's wearing, while he has he's holding all this equipment, and then he just walks right past him after shoving it to the ground, that was you. That was the part of the thing where I think he could face discipline if he had sort of realized what he did in the moment and then like help the guy out there. Or whatever that looks like when a Dan's Irish goodbyes out of the exactly. Um. And by the way, there was an incident report that was filed, and I just liked the wording in it because it was a it was a it was bully behavior and he pushed the dude down, but it wasn't vicious. It wasn't like, oh my god, is that guy gonna be Okay? Uh, here is the language and the incident report. The victim made arrangements for private transport to the hospital for treatment, at which time he called police. The injuries are pre preliminarily thought to be non life threatening. Okay, let's come down. Let's not get too legitious here. We don't know dan crappy moment. We don't know what, we don't know the condition of his body. All right, let's pause right here and take a break. We'll be right back. In other news, Ron Rivera stepped in it. On Monday. You know, the Commanders are one in four heading into Thursday night football. All the other teams in the NFC East are bawling out five and old Eagles, Cowboys and Giants four and one. So he's facing some uh heat and rightfully so for the commanders not doing much. And when he was asked about the difference between Washington and the rest of the thriving NFC East, like I said, Ron rivera stepped in it. Why do you think the teams in the division her father had at this point quarterback. The truth is that this is a quarterback driven lake. And if you look at the teams that have been able to sustain success, they've been able to build it around a specific quarterback. You know, Quarters of Nation is not feeling good about that because he Ron River is wearing a really like nice Kashmere maroon quarters zip I called a three quartersip um with a button down on uneath it, and he he looks like art museum curator and he just buries his quarterback. So tough, tough moment for Quarters of Nations. He tugged down. You might have to say he's wearing a three quarters if he doesn't deserve the distance. Yeah, uh he You know, there was some extra context to that. He like praised Carson Wentz at one point in those answers, and he was trying to and he apologized to today saying he doesn't want to be a distraction and he created distract. Spoke with Carson privately right by that the way he climbs only answered. But part of the problem was his answer made no sense because his the way he was trying to answer it was saying that the continuity that they've had at quarterback in their systems is what led them to greater success. Okay, we have Daniel Jones quarterback in his third in his third system. He just started his new system, uh five weeks ago, the same time as Carson Wentz, uh and and Scott Turner. By the way, he's been there a while. The offensive coordinate for Watchington and uh Dallas is four and one with a backup quarterback. So it's like none of it made it. I don't know what it is, or maybe I kind of do, but you know, you can't really put your finger on it because you're not in the buildings. But Carson Wentz will just wherever he goes, he's gonna take fire, and sometimes faster than you realize. And India was by the end of the season. Uh here it's by you know, not even Halloween. He's getting kind of like roped into these type of conversations Washington, d C. And the Pentagon. He was pointing more to himself, actually, because I can't think of a you know, old school veteran coach around the league that seems to verbally care less about going and getting that young quarterback. If anything, it's I want to I want Alex Smith, I want you know, fill in the blank, low level guy that we they wanted Stafford to Stafford wanted. But like we just talked about what happens to coaches that do this well, I think this is an example of Ron not listening to his quarterback, because if he had listened to what Carson Wentz said back in July, he might have acted a little differently. As we all know, decided to really go ahead and start to take command. He didn't take command. Rivera has not taken command. No, he has not, and he could find himself not commanding a roster too much longer if things don't change for Washington. Uh. In other news, speaking of stepped in it, um Keenan Allen at the end of the Chargers game. And I know you guys were a little softer on Brandon Staley in the aftermath of this than I was, But I was not into him going for it on fourth and two in his own territory up two points in that situation, and Keenan Allen was an agreement. He was inactive with a hamstring injury, and he tweeted w t F are we doing? And then he deleted that tweet. But then he had a follow up to Wheat in which he was like, you know something, all the lines of I have it right here. So glad he missed that because man, man man, So he's calling out his coach for not knowing what he's never the follow up tweet if you if you delete it, just go go, go silent, go offline for two days. And if you're following what's going on and hearing the whispers and the reporting around the Chargers, it doesn't seem like Brandon Staley has a great command of this locker room. Keenan Allen is a highly respected veteran. UH Staley addressed the Twitter SNAPf who this week, Keenan's heart is with me, is with us, and UM, you know, to me, I've understanding of where he was at in that moment because he's not with his team there in the fire. That's a money down that he's used to being out there. Um, which makes it a lot better for us, and uh, it's just part of sports. And um, you know we're gonna become closer because of it. Uh, we already became closer this morning because of it, and we're going to keep it moving to Denver. Speaking of guys in trouble, Wait, what what have you? What you said? There were reports that he doesn't have command of the locker room. Where I'm not saying he's not. He's getting ready to take command. There there are some reports out there. I've seen them. I'll have to I'll have to survicem. I didn't know that, um, but that things weren't so hot in Chargers Lynn. Did you see those reports? Marks? There were whispers I remember talking to a couple of weeks ago that there was bubbling up that maybe you know last year nice when we got something, Greggy, I got the pulse you'd have something if you actually gave the Just wait, I can't. I was ready to cite sources here because you're ambushing me in the middle of the podcast. But trust me, and there was something out there that's I will find. It was news to me that he's taken some heat, and uh, it doesn't surprise me. Though, because there's probably a lot of people surprised you because you didn't know about it, and Zeuser did. I used to know a guy who would talk about being the a T insider, and then he would not only double source it, he would triple source it. And now he's doing that. You know, he's fallen hard. I tell what you see. See he's hitting. Greg likes to be like, oh, nothing can hurt me, nothing, I deflect all but that one that was a knife into the risk. It's more if you come after me, you know, and more importantly journalistically, if you've got to come after Brandon Staley, you gotta back it up with some facts. You thank you, Paul Rod. You nailed this one. Greg, you got it. You do it. You know, it's like the I love this, It's like the Stephen A. Smith thing. Oh reports, you know, watch out, alright, just out, Staley, watch your back. Just just give me a minute. I will dig this up and maybe my producer Justin can help out as well, because we need to get the sourcing right for Greg to admit you just got got you got got in the NFL news business, We'll see, aren't we a little surprised that Keenan Allen wouldn't be completely and intimately familiar with the way this team operates on fourth down. He's been probably a hundred meetings where Stale he said, this is what we do in these situations. He's not a sports reporter from like eyewitness news. That's that's just discovering. I think it goes to Dan's uh point that when he was upset with the going for the fourth down. Players are the same as fans, are the same as journalists. They've seen football operated in a certain way forever and they've just accept that that's the right way to do things. And anyone, whether you like it or not, who's gonna go against that. There's gonna be a lot of people that don't like it. I'm saying that he's been closer to a team that operates the suite this way than of players, coaches, or the rest of the earth. I mean, this is what the Charges did all last year. They're doing it again. Um, all right, I think that's everything in the news. Yes, that's what's happening in the news. Are we taking a break here? Justin let's take a break and we'll right back. We're back, all right. I have surface some of the reporting out there. Uh. There was a bad loss to the Jaguars in Week three in which only two team captains were available to speak to the media, Herbert and Eckler. None of the defensive captains spoke of the media. Uh, and apparently they left the stadium very quickly. A former Charger scout had tweeted out that he was hearing some rumblings from inside the building that the players were not buying into the coaching staffs messaging, and then to follow it up the way to fired scout Brentley Weissman sent one tweet out, we're going with that as a story. I'm not accepting that. And then Keenan Allen took to Twitter just this week. I don't know if you heard. Oh, we talked about it and openly called out his head coach's decision making. So, uh, that's where we're at. There's layers to this, and we haven't we haven't gone full reporting yet, but we do have a fired former scout um who said he heard some rumblings. Well, I'm just saying that context is important. It wasn't like Ian Rappaport, you feeling that things are hunky. Dorry there, or it's probably more likely that Alan, in concert with some of this reporting, slash whispers might speak to a disconnect. I guess it hadn't occurred to me that they have like locker room problems. Yet what about it after this reporting? That does it occur to you? Nowiseman doesn't do enough for me? Why do you again? Bentley Wiseman so much? He could be a man of absurd integrity, right, but he was literally fired by the team. But what's the what are the circumstances behind? We'll have to find out. He also worked for the Patriots, Raiders Oregon and hey, as always have to go Ducks. Let's let's uh check in on something else before we get to the T and F preview. We know, obviously, um, what's going on with certain people having guys? This is Mark needs a guy update? All right, Yes, Mark needs a guy. It's a feisty show. If you're just tuning in, The following players are not an option. Taloah who Foga safety, San Francisco, Tarik Woolin cornerback Seattle, Jack Jones cornerback, New England. So those are the three players off the board. As Mark continues his quest, uh for a guy. Any developments Mark since Sunday night, as you've had a chance to ruminate and think about I need a guy. They got guys, I need one. Any updates, I will be presenting a short list for your for you to accept or design. I know how it works, but I will be on Thursday, UM announcing a short list. Okay, well that's I'm glad I can talk to you before this, because there was a guy that came to mind might be one of your guys, all right, yeah, because he's you know, he's kind of he's relatively under the radar. He's on the Browns UM, which a team that you focus on UM, and his name is Jeremiah Coamoa. But he was really one of the lead guys on my making this year, Jeremiah Wuskamoa, who's who's a very well known player, but I've really been pumping him up for a long time. Made him sort of a centerpiece of the making the Leap. So if that was someone marksidering, First of all, I can't believe Greg called him under the radar. I mean, he was special last year and he's becoming even more so now he's been hurt a little bit here and there. But I mean you can have him break if you're if you if this is what fuels you, there's there are clearly voids in the other aspects of your life. This is what you need, you can have it here talking about out now he's going to other aspects. Why this is so important to list Allnoah who found a safety? San Francisco, Give me the music. Tarik wool In cornerback Seattle, Jack Jones cornerback, New England, Jeremiah Oosa Corramoa linebacker, Cleveland off the board with more to come. That's fine, that's just the tease. Speaking of tease. Washington and Chicago. The Commanders and the Bears play on Thursday Night Football this week. Hold on to your Jim Gray. But because we got a command off, a command off, because we know Carson Wentz is getting ready to take command. Wow, very newsy show. But listen to Matt Eberflus just today on Justin Fields. The guys are just getting used to it. You know that you can feel Justin you know, comfortable where he is right now on the offense. He's take command and now decided to really go ahead and start to take command. We have commanders Bears in prime time. Two quarterbacks taking command who will fully grasp there on the pregame shows a command like they could do the funny graphics, they can show the thing. Maybe you could be on a boat. I don't know. Anyway, Washington at Chicago and a reminder. This TNF preview is presented by Prime Video, the new exclusive home for Thursday Night Football. Mark your thoughts on this ball game. If anything, I think Justin Fields is coming off his best game. I don't know what that means week to week for the Bears, but passing wise, I thought he looked better than he had in the past. There's nothing around him. I mean, the number one receiver on the Bears has ten receptions. No one else has more than nine. They just they've they've had games where he's had you know, seven, eight, nine completions. The game against the Giants was a hot mess. But I thought Fields played better last week. He had like a fifty two yard run that was erased by penalty, where you kind of see what Justin Fields can do in the open field. I mean, really, to me it maybe a better system would be a better quarterback. I don't know, they're they don't have a good line in front of him. I don't have a lot of like hopes that if the Commander's got hot, because I feel like they've been really streaky. They've had a quarter or two where if there they get buried early and then Wentz has to bring them back. You can see what Washington's offense is capable of, and I would give this. I think Washington, basically for Ron Rivera, needs to do this to save their season. They are in hot water if they fell in this one. And this is a sitting duck Bears team potentially on offense. I mean, if Washington falls here, you are talking about the floor falling out. And yet I I'm really struggling to pick this game just because I I feel like the Bears have a little something something that the Commanders don't have. Like if if this game is close, and it probably will be at the end, I can just imagine the Bears pulling out an ugly win and feeling good about themselves, and the Commander's finding a Minnesota right finding a way to lose. The Bears protected justin fields incredibly well against Minnesota makes me wonder a little bout about that Minnesota defense. I mean Justin Fields was cooking steaks back there, Dan cooking steaks and packing cake doing math. I don't know, there's there's been a lot, a lot of phrases for getting great past protective, but he needs it because no one holds the ball longer or takes longer to make a decision to throw the ball than Justin Fields right now. But he did throw the ball pretty well. And and like Mark said, I think if you can just get his legs a little more involved, he's led them in rushing a couple of times lately. Good tidbit here, uh from the NFL research team, The Commander's pressure QB is on the highest percentage of dropecks of any team in the league. And by the way, did you happen to see Monte's sweat and what he was doing um in that game on Sunday? Uh? He was all over the Titans, um And who were they? It was the back it was the left tackle that replaced Teller Luan correct, Yes, Dennis Daily, he was having a hard time of it. He should change his name to Dennis Snappley because he was getting beat on a that that's how often he was getting beat human. Other producer. Drew is actually leaving the studio and he took off his headset and he's leaving. Other people are booing, getting the thumbs even Sean Kelly's giving you the thumbs down. That's the most positive man in the world. Oh, Drew did come back. That's good. Yes, Dennis Daly was getting hammered by Montes switch the highest pressure rate in the league because they haven't been a good defense. It hasn't like added up to be there yet, right. That was the thing with the RIVERA quote was like quarterbacks in our way, your team had one of the worst defenses in the league a year ago, in your below average in every possible metro this year too, and you're a defensive coach. So it's not just the quarterback. Yeah, it's a it's a tough game to pick um. It is the according to the Power Rankings V thirty and it's coming off the Colts Broncos games. So I'm not happy, Alain happy. Maybe we'll be surprised though. I think the NFL's sweating to thinking. But Fields is. I feel like Fields is the because we know Wentz has this ability to get hot, and we saw what he did with Dammy Brown connecting bea plus with multiple touchdowns. It's not that he's not productive. So let's sell this one. Let's sell this one, baby. Uh. The Commanders can score points. Carson Wentz can potentially create a scenario where they scored thirty points and justin fields like we've been saying, coming off his best game, with some confidence, a little bit of swag, maybe Baby, we end up getting a game it's fun to watch, to make up for what happened last there's two desperate teams. It won't it won't be worse. I will guarantee it. It'll be better than it cannot be worse. That was one of the worst games I've ever watched last week. I I agree, it's a big I don't know if you can be a cornered commander. I mean you can be. You're bad. They're because they're cornered right now, Mark's right. This feels like a world history is filled with corners like Commanders that eventually were corner I don't know about Lyne in the sand, if that's the right word. But if they follow the one in five and losing in Chicago in uh in an Island game, maybe their only Island game all year. It's gonna get ugly that there's no overt plan. Ron Riverican point to as a commander at that point, and a reminder, you can watch this game on mobile with NFL Plus. There you go, all right. That was the t NAF preview presented by Prime Video. The new era of Thursday Night Football is officially here, and it's only on Prime Video. Let's finish the show by Yes, we have been talking about this off air for weeks. I feel like we even in erect what would have been a reckless decision, almost made it a segment during our live show in London at the O two Forum before thinking better of it. Um. Yes, we were not at the top of our game mentally at that point. Um. But Sunday we teased it it is finally time to play frisky or spicy kind of frisky. Justin's really pumped up back there today. I like it. He brought the a effort. What is that from Justin? I do not know? So he did not directed Eric to find sounds and Eric, well, Eric did an excellent Eric Day Weekly Snappily, Eric, a question for you, because we just we just basic Justin, why don't we turn off the mic for a while. But just but he had broken in to say, actually, I didn't do that one of my He was silent and justin you know, I love you. But let's just let's go quiet for a little bit and just think about some stuff. Uh. Frisky, What is frisky? What is spicy? That is the question. I'll give my definition as I give my first team. I think frisky is a team that is annoying. They're a team that you look at your schedule in week one and you go, that's backpocket win. And then that team starts the season and you notice that the teams that are supposed to be handling them are struggling to defeat them. Sometimes they don't even beat them. So the Atlanta Falcons, to me, are an example of a frisky team. I don't think they're spicy because I don't think they're ready to make that leap to being a team that's really fighting for a playoff spot or giving anyone a scare in the NFC South. But at the same time, I believe them to be a team that's gonna be a tough opponent week after week. Frisky the Falcons, I think I feel like they are the textbook definition of frisky, especially the way that you described it. I do see a scenario though, and this is and I'll have to find out who would come up and fit this scenario that you could that you could be spicy even if you aren't that good, or even if you have no chance to make the playoffs. Somehow, you just there's a level to the interest, and there's a team in my mind where you are spicy even if you're not like great at football, even if you're gonna finish seven and ten, you could be spicy just because you're so darned tasty, you know what I mean? What's okay? I think I think the Seahawks are spicy, because yes, the Seahawks are frisky in a way. To me, they're more spicy, And it doesn't mean I think they're gonna go to the playoffs, but they're like the number one offense in the league right now. I mean, you don't get much more spicy than a Geno Smith, you know, big time throw or a Geno Smith like press conference and answer to me, they are very spicy. You don't get much more spicy with an over seventy zaddy than Pete Carroll like they're spicy and and it doesn't mean they're good. They disagree with that just because my definition is different. You're not spicy unless you're really sending some shock waves out there and you have a chance to make some big noise. Like for me, the Cowboys are spicy. The Cowboys are a team that they they exceeded past frisky and now they are a team that has a defense that's given up one touchdown in each of the first five weeks, that has big time playmakers both in the front and the back end on defense, and yes have Dak Prescott waiting in the wings getting healthy as the team wins. They are spicy to me different completely and with you with the Falcons, I'm with you on the Cowboys. I the Seahawks is frisky, but I also see another team that's frisky, because I think frisky is less embedded. Um, there's a newness to it. It's kind of like you've had a crazy night out, you left your credit card at the bar, You've given your social Security number to a band of teen robbers, you don't know what could happen, and the world is new for you suddenly. And that is my frisky team. The New York Jets where we were three weeks ago, same old Jets. You got Joe Flacco out there getting his butt kicked. Then suddenly that there's that inciting incident. The win over Cleveland was something that came so far from the wilderness and was so improbable that it kind of changed everything that would happened for the Jets. Then suddenly incomes Zack Wilson to complement the rest of this rookie class. The ten years now you might look at this rookie class and say everything changed. Now you got Robert Sala suddenly not a zombie on the sideline, swing at the grass. He's starting to pump his fists, and they're gonna go play Green Bay, and you could go from frisky to spicy, just like a last New York team did. If you go into Green Bay and you handle your business. Zack Wilson in his own way, maybe not numbers wise, but leads an offense and outduels a depressing Packers team. That's how the Jets flipped the switch. I mean depressing fields a little bit strong. But here is we are. We are right church different pew on that, because I do think the Jets are right there. A win in Lambeau sends them to uh spicy territory. But I don't think they're frisky right now. They've graduated into this world in between. The Jets are feisty right now. The Jets are wait, so it's frisky, spicy or feisty. There's a feisty and the Jets are. They qualify in this weird like nether world of where they are. They were on frisky, they moved to feisty. Now they get the blinker on and they're ready to turn onto spicy boulevard. All they gotta do is beat Aaron Rodgers. And I just gotta say, this is the the best possible outcome for this Jet season. And I'm even saying any of this right now, right because we're four weeks to remove from you making fun of Robert Sala and like being annoyed at the answers he was giving, making fun of those fust worrying for you, I worry for you now putting too much brightness on them, like just not suddenly you're ready to take them and put them into category above. All the other teams were talking the receipts. We were kind of mocking that like that he was being That's all I'm saying, And so we're I'm confused though, because feisty to be would be lower than frisky. Yeah, so I'd rather to me, it's just like, hey, you might pop up in a given week and you're not you know, you're not a doormat like the Bears if they win this week especially, but the Bears to me have shown some feistiness. They're not frisky, then they're definitely not spicy. They get three and three. I think it's again, this is a segment where you let it flow through you. Yeah, and for me, um, there is a world in between frisky and spicy, and for that it's fisty. Now they're clearly frisky at the very least. Oh, they are, absolutely. I believe they graduated from frisky after yesterday but Sunday, but even they to to Mark's point, maybe I got to calm down a little bit. Maybe the Dolphins were, you know, just turn it down. The third court, third string quarterback question about the Cowboys. I don't know, it's circling back, but I think it gets to the heart of frisky and feisty and spicy and all the things. What does expectation have to do with the term, and what does sort of the team's history have to do with the terms. Because the Cowboys are sixteen and six in their last two seasons. You know, they won twelve games last year. Uh, they are America's team there, nobody's underdog. Yes, they've been playing with the energy, they've been playing with a backup quarterbacks. Can I answer a question? I think that gets to feisty, but to me, they're sort of not. They're not They're not frisky because they're the Cowboy. I don't think that they belong in this exercise because they are. They were the I know the Eagles have bubbled up, but they spent much of the off season as a division favorite. They were a playoff team a year ago, and they don't fit with the rest of the teams. Were kind of talking about here where they're kind of they're not coming from the wilderness. They're the most on brand advertised team out there. With that somehow it is. I mean, if Cooper rushed or were to be their quarterback the rest of the year, I'd stick him into this. I mean they were on this podcast anyway, mostly buried as an aftertho summer and seventh in the NFL coming in really, but they're not an unknown. We're talking about teams that are like, maybe a team can maybe a good team can be right. And things changed from even August what you're saying, Mark, Like when Dak went down, everyone, everybody, and I mean everybody said they were done. Every single person on this network and elsewhere said, oh the cat, look how bad they looked in the first place in Week one against the Bucks and then Dax bro Dak broke his thumb. And now we got Cooper Rush coming in here. They are cooked and guess what, they weren't cooked, so that because they got knocked down into like this, they're cooked status. They to me get into this bucket. And they are absolutely spicy. They are spicy if we want to shove them into one of these categories. For the most part, it's spicy, but they also have a super Bowl level defense and there's no other team that we're talking about here with anything like that on either side. Way, what was that, Mark? Spicy? If you're spicy, you're just spicy. Spicy food stays spicy for the most part. Did I actually say that? Yeah? That was not a cut up thing that was god this season, especially Mark, I could always count on you if I feeling a little bit self conscious, like maybe I shouldn't bring up the Jets. Mark, you will bring up the Jets this year. Um, so I'll bring up the Browns. And they are frisky to me. And that's this is like they're frisky in a frustrating way because of everything. Their three losses have been super annoying. But you don't go into Cleveland or welcome Cleveland in and think, oh, we're just gonna walk over these guys, because they will give you a game. They have Nick Chubb, who, by the way, I understand the way a game plays out, and I understand Jake Brisket has been playing really well this season, But how does think Chop only have seventeen carries on Sunday. This guy can't be tackled because so many of them just like ended in the end zone. So dr But I see what you're saying, he ended, he stands for more carries by going I'm saying he had half the amount of touches that Brissette had throws in this game. And it's just like or carries, I should say. But anyway, I think the Browns are frisky, you said frustrating, and I made a category for them frustrating to bizarre levels because I don't find them frisky. That's really outside the bounds of this segment. But you created that, wasn't that's within the bounds. It's got a y at the end. Well, but you're going to sign everything. It also fits in the lower third graphically on the YouTube show. I don't think they're frisky when we work on something for the lower third for marks ting to bizarre level. I don't think they're frisky when you can count on them to blow it. They The reason the Jets are in this category or even talking about the Jets is because of the Browns. The reason we're talking about the Falcons because they ran for two d two yards on the Browns. But I can count on them to blow it, like the Lions, who I think are frisky. It was the Sunday with any of these categories. Before Sunday they did sure not. Now, okay, I don't think the brown I'm not burying the Lions up one terrible offensive, but I mean they're one in five. When are they Do they strike you as frisky or spicy? The Lions. I think they're frisky. I think they'll get back to think of their entire team for Sunday win a game. But you don't have to win to be frisky, you could just be. I mean at some point, being one in seven, you're not frisky. They're one. I mean they're a mess right now. Okay, Uh, the Browns don't fit, and I think they're a great uh team to talk about in this exercise. Thank you for now. I have to stop after every line because because Ai Mark speaks about everything, the points are always good. Yeah, they really are. I can't really explain why. But the Browns don't fit. I mean it might be partly because they made a loathsome transaction this offseason. Um that made me not root for them in general. But I also would say the way they've played this season is not frisky, ficy or spicy. They've just been a surprisingly great offense that is dumb and finds ways to lose. So I don't find that that doesn't sound frisky, fighty or spicy. That just sounds like disappointing to Mark's point, frustrating to bizarre. Like I gotta say, I think that's where I because they just they just seem like an annoying team to me because they're not living up to their potential. They should be four and one to their potential, Greg you would bury this basically, no chances flash. I was incredibly wrong in that preseason analysis, like I was about many teams like we all are. You could see within a week or two they were not a bottom five team. That they do feel like they should be four in one, and that there's some bad juj you going on. Well, there's also Jacoby Brissette three interceptions such leading directly to three losses. But it's weird because he's kind of like the poor man Zino this year. He ranks in the top six or seven in basic if you if you took those street throws away, I guarantee there are four and one, maybe five and out. I think I had a little higher hopes for the Browns hanging around before the season, so this feels like who they were. It's just the But you're right, the way they've lost the games makes it harder. But I just think they are frisky. They're like, don't mess with the Browns, don't sleep on the Browns. Okay, so you wins, you guys. Put this to the Seahawks and frisky, fix your defense a little, and then they can really get what was the Patriots. The Browns play the Patriots this week, and I think and if Frisky Bowl, I mean yeah, I think the Patriots are clearly frisky, maybe even feisty. Okay, they go to Green Bay, they lose their backup quarterback immediately that thing goes to overtime. They beat the team of a t l in a shutout, another frisky team according with a third string quarterback. In the week before that, they're going back and forth with the Ravens in like a weird offensive shootout where they actually have a lead uh late in that game. To me, they're very frisky because they don't really seem like a good team, but you don't know, you don't want them on your schedule. They're definitely not spicy. I think is because my frisky category um Jets, Brown's, Falcon, Seahawks lines. They're all teams that they've been kind of fun to watch and they they they entertain you, even if they don't always win. I can't say that I've enjoyed watching the Patriots this season, but at the same time, I understand what you're saying. There are definitely boxes that are being more fights. The actually Bill Belichick in his press conferences fight that's good. They're not fun to watch, So you're right. I think frisky better be. What are we doing calling something frisky if there's no enjoyment attached to it? I think Massachusetts people in general are feisty. I didn't realize that growing up. I just thought that's how how everyone was, and then I was just like, nope, me and all my friends are jerks. That's just um what happens. But you extend friendship to each other, so there is some that is a drop moving forward, Alright, any other thoughts I've shared all of mine. I gotta say. I think I think that we have the giants and giants I don't even I, Oh, please, Greggy, they're frisky, you know why not? Why is it with you and the giants? Why can't you just I just think they're frisky. There are a lot of teams that start out fast and end up with eight winds, and those, to me are frisky teams. And I still kind of think that's where the giants are headed. But we'll see. And Mark, oh, that's from the live show. Oh my god, um mark your category one more time, going to have it because I know one more team that belongs in the Browns. Nope, which is right? Put the Lions or if you want frustrating to bizarre levels, Browns and Raiders, because we had to the Raiders. The Raiders to me, they're not last night. Last night was a night two weeks ago they ran the ball a ton. I kind of like that last night. Had they pulled that off. We're talking about something at that point because they're close. They're close, but right now I can't really put them into frisky or spicy. I don't want to watch them every week necessary. I kind of like watching them, Uh you know. They they made the Broncos look interesting for one week. That was the most watchable Broncos game they've They have found a way to lose insane games to the Titans, the Cardinals and the Chiefs. But they're they're not far away. They're certainly the best one in four team in the NFL. Alright, it's not let me just I'm just gonna my last thing. I just because I want to give them. It's the team of around the NFL. It's been a rough go since we name them that, But I just want to go through the five weeks, and I understand Sunday was terrible thirty five loss to the Eagles, who are five and oh win over Washington, loss to Minnesota four and one, five shootout loss to Geno m v P and the Seahawks before a meltdown in New England. And they are hardly the first team to go up to New England and get humbled by getting just outcoached, uh and lose twenty nine zip. I think there's enough. There's enough there to give them frisky status. So they have their bye week, Okay, come out of it. They go to Dallas, one of the team that's not going to give up forty five points while they score forty five. So I'm saying if they fall to one in five against the Cowboys and then you've got the Packers, and it matters how they play. It's not just whether they win or lose, but at some point. So so, if they were one in eight but they're losing games thirty eight to thirty nine, you're still frisky. Get them to me, But that's my I don't need them to be winning a lot of games. Also be like a gnat, just like they're gonna give up Dan Campbell and this staff. I'm gonna believe that they're gonna come out this bye week clin there. I think the Patriots game hurt me because I wondered if this journey that they're they've been on was more of an aberration than who they are week after week. But they didn't have DeAndre Swift, so I will extend, you know, more time to them. I don't think they care that I'm doing that, but we'll see what happens. Actually, they're right now like pipe. Thank god, we got an extension all right there it is. I don't know was that how? What was what was going on there? Um Grave Digger, come on back, because I know you've been in kind of time out. Some of your bits didn't land earlier too. But did that segment did that make any sense? That segment a little bit? Yeah? Yeah, you know. I will say I agree with you Dan on the feisty being between frisky and spicy, and I don't think it has anything to do with the definition. It just kind of sounds like a combination of But you said, you said the Patriots are feisty, but that they're haven't they're not frisky, so it's very confusing. Well, no, maybe it's not leveling up for you. It's just different diagram. You kind of won me over on the frisky thing with the Pats a little bit. I was more hung up initially on like the they're not like exciting or fun to watch. Well, let's be real, we we keep getting caught in logic traps with this this, and so you just have to say, yes, I think you won me over with that last thing you said. Bailey, he's frisky, he's feisty, he's people in New England need to calm down with like, hey, let's start the zappy kid. There's not they're hungry for a quarterback conscious birth day. I feel like that's a name that he at some point gave to himself, Bailey Zappy. Bailey Zappy. All right, So I think we covered a lot in today's show. We touched on the DJ DJ feud and we don't need to go on any further because that just gives them something interesting to talk about on their show, So we'll just leave it where it is it fuels them. Yeah, we talked about everything in the news. Mark needs a guy, update, we have something. We have a development coming up on Thursday. You said, there, if I remember, if I really had an ugly source battle related to the chargers, that was that. That was not pleasant, but that's the way it goes sometimes. And then frisky, spicy, feisty, and the other category disappointing everyone, frustrating to bizarre level or something. And then the TNF preview. We've covered a lot, we've said it all. Mark, you get the final word today. I love you both. Wow, that was not a soundtrop Do you believe it? I do, say he the call spe