Kerr Smith Meets World

00:00:19
Speaker 1: Do you guys have Spotify, Yeah, like the one that comes with my phone. I don't know how to use the extra parts of it. It comes with my phone, doesn't it have you?

00:00:27
Speaker 2: It doesn't come with your phone.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: I didn't download it. It's just on my phone.

00:00:32
Speaker 3: Well, Danielle, have you noticed the new day List feature?

00:00:36
Speaker 4: No?

00:00:38
Speaker 5: Okay?

00:00:38
Speaker 3: So they used to do something called like a daily Mix, and they would.

00:00:40
Speaker 2: Make every much of them.

00:00:42
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, now they just have something called the day List and if you click on it every couple hours, it updates and it makes a new list for you of like what it recommends based on what you've been listening to.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: Look, I got it. I just opened it and it says new music for you, and then it's a single but it's sponsored.

00:00:57
Speaker 3: No, you got to go to day List and it actually them.

00:01:00
Speaker 5: So I want to do two Truths in a Lie.

00:01:03
Speaker 3: Where my day List, Yes, because they have been remarkable and I want to see if you guys can spot the lie. Uh So we played two Truths in a Lie when we would do our live show, but I don't think we've done it on the podcast, or maybe we have one once or twice.

00:01:20
Speaker 5: But yeah, so two of these.

00:01:22
Speaker 3: Are real, okay, titles for collections of music that Spotify has recommended for me based on my listening taste, and I guess my personality, and one of them is a lie.

00:01:34
Speaker 2: Okay?

00:01:35
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

00:01:37
Speaker 3: Is this a day list created by Spotify for right or strong Granola Vibes Van Life Friday Afternoon?

00:01:45
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Wait, is that the name of the playlist or that's the name of a song.

00:01:50
Speaker 5: No, that's the name.

00:01:51
Speaker 3: It creates the playlist and you click on it and it tells you what it's created for you.

00:01:56
Speaker 1: That has to be real.

00:01:58
Speaker 3: Number two okay, Cottage Core, Crunchy Folk Tuesday Night or Sleeping in Sad Girl.

00:02:09
Speaker 5: Indy Thursday Afternoon.

00:02:12
Speaker 1: Oh all, I want them all to be real and all to be lies. Oh it's magical. I think the first one, the Crunchy Van Life, has the granola Crunchy Van Life, but it's so on the note.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: It wasn't crunchy, it was Granola Vibes Van Life Friday after the other one was Cottage Core, Crunchy.

00:02:30
Speaker 5: Folk Tuesday Night.

00:02:33
Speaker 3: It's crunch or Sleeping in Sad Girl Indy Thursday Afternoon.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Oh insad, I'm gonna Oh god, they're all magic.

00:02:48
Speaker 6: I know.

00:02:48
Speaker 5: I almost wanted to do three lies because there was just there was good for.

00:02:56
Speaker 1: A part of me. See, this is where I get the rider's head, because part of me wants thinks that first one you're using not to throw us in. The last two are reel. But I think the Van Life I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say the lie is the middle one. I think Van Life and Indie are true and the middle one is the lie.

00:03:15
Speaker 2: That's I completely agree with you. And by the way, the second one is actually my favorite, my favorite name, which is the reason why I suspect writer created it, because it's like poetry. The other two are just slightly ai enough, but I think they're right.

00:03:33
Speaker 3: Yes, you guys go, but cottage Core and Crunchy have come up so many times. So another real one was Happy Folk Crunchy Wednesday afternoon, Oh my god. Another le one was Mountain Home Tuesday night.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I have one called mood Swing Teddy Bear Friday morning.

00:03:54
Speaker 5: There you go.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: It's perfect.

00:03:56
Speaker 1: Do you have to pay for these?

00:03:57
Speaker 5: You know?

00:03:57
Speaker 3: It's well if you have to pay for Spotify, But if you have, but no, won't. It'll update every three hours. So just write that one down because I had to start writing these down because you can't access the old ones. It keeps updating based on what you listen to. So you're in a mood swing, You're in a mood swing, Teddy Bear World whatever?

00:04:15
Speaker 1: Wait, where does this? Where do you find them?

00:04:17
Speaker 4: Okay?

00:04:17
Speaker 3: You go to Spotify It When you go to a playlists, it has something called day list, and when you click on day List, it gives you the name of your current day list and it'll keep updating every three hours or so. And every time I click on it, I'm like, Wow, this is hysterical and.

00:04:32
Speaker 5: By the way, pretty accurate.

00:04:34
Speaker 3: Like what I want.

00:04:36
Speaker 5: It nails me pretty much every time.

00:04:38
Speaker 2: You know, what's interesting is that all morning I've been listening to like twenty seconds of songs because we're trying to pick what song we're gonna do for rock and roll Holliday.

00:04:45
Speaker 3: That's why it's a mood swings all over in a place. My god, stop drinking.

00:04:53
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's great.

00:04:55
Speaker 5: It's amazing.

00:04:56
Speaker 3: You will have so much fun just clicking and being like, oh yep.

00:05:00
Speaker 2: Firefox Friday Morning.

00:05:03
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, Crunchy is big for me. Cottage course comes up all the time.

00:05:07
Speaker 5: The hell is cottage?

00:05:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, crunchy. It just so'm like crunchy granola hippie.

00:05:11
Speaker 1: Are you guys on premium? Is that? Are you paying for this?

00:05:13
Speaker 4: Is that?

00:05:14
Speaker 1: That's what it is. I just watched all my music on YouTube. There you go, I do It's well.

00:05:19
Speaker 5: Then you don't get the joy.

00:05:22
Speaker 2: I love my scription. Yeah, welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm mood swing Teddy Bear Friday morning.

00:05:32
Speaker 3: I'm happy full crunchy Wednesday Rider.

00:05:34
Speaker 1: And I'm not on premium Spotify. I'm will for now.

00:05:41
Speaker 2: We will be taping a live episode of Pod Meets World at Disney California Adventure Park on December fourth, twenty twenty five.

00:05:49
Speaker 1: If you live in the Southern California area or if you can be in the Southern California area on December fourth, we have an opportunity for you to join us.

00:05:56
Speaker 2: Between now and November twenty fourth of twenty twenty five, you can enter for your chance to win tickets to attend the Coast one oh three point five private holiday Party at Disney California Adventure Park on December fourth, twenty twenty five, including an overnight stay at the Disneyland Resort hotel for a family of four and two day, one park per day tickets to Disneyland Park or Disney California Adventure Park.

00:06:24
Speaker 3: Plus you'll have a chance to meet us while we're taping an episode of Pod Meets World inside Disney California Adventure Park.

00:06:31
Speaker 1: Visit Coast one O three five dot com forward slash Pod Meets World Now to enter for your chance to win.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: We've mentioned Dawson's Creek many times on this podcast, and not just because it was a tent pole show for its decade, but because we knew that eighty percent of writers time on the Boy Meets World set was spent daydreaming about what it would like to be on a real show like Dawson's Creek. Whether it was the complicated, relatable relationship of Dawson and Joey Pacey's never ending journey for purpose, or the themes of identity, independence, and friendship. They were handling real storylines and looking beautiful while doing it. Did they share the screen with a bear while covered in honey?

00:07:23
Speaker 4: No?

00:07:24
Speaker 2: But to be fair, I'm not yet sure I did either. And this week's guest may have just been the Dawson's Creek character with the most responsibility when it came to important and culturally significant storylines. When he moved to Los Angeles in his twenties, it took only seven weeks to book his first job, a lead on the soap opera As the World Turns, which then quickly turned into the role of a lifetime Jack McPhee, the new kid in Cape Side for season two, catching Joey's attention and putting the most important relationship in CW network history in limbo, and then came one of the most iconic smooches and TV history when his romantic scene with love interest Ethan became the first same sex kiss between two men in network television history, a milestone by all accounts that we can thankfully now say wouldn't even make the news like it did back in the year two thousand. He recently participated in a spectacular charity event on Broadway, breaking the Internet while reuniting the cast of Dawson's Creek to raise money for the f Cancer charity in the name of their co star James Vanderbeek, who's currently battling co erectoral cancer, and now he's set to release a memoir in twenty twenty six, all about his time on the show titled I Don't want to wait My journey on Dawson's Creek without a paddle. So it feels like maybe he's on his own podmeats world style journey and we can't wait to talk to him about it. So welcome to the podcast, a man who made history on the show writer actually wanted to be on. It's cur Smithy. Hello, welcome, Thank you for being here.

00:09:00
Speaker 4: With us, guys. Good to see you again.

00:09:02
Speaker 2: Good to see you. Well, I just want to get this out of the way now because all of us were aggressively jealous of you in the nineties. We used to look at being on Dawson's Creek as a bit of our dream job. Did you know how meaty it seemed to the rest of us, you know, kid actors at the time.

00:09:24
Speaker 4: That's the first I'm hearing of it.

00:09:30
Speaker 2: Well, we all really wanted to be doing what you guys were doing.

00:09:33
Speaker 1: I guessing you never opened your script and went, oh, I'm sneezing the lottery numbers this week.

00:09:40
Speaker 4: Hey, you guys were doing it a good decade before we were.

00:09:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Let's start with getting into your origin story. You were raised in Pennsylvania. Were you acting in high school at all? Did you have any child actor aspirations?

00:09:56
Speaker 4: I did a little bit. I remember this tenth grade. It was a it was a combination of lit class and an acting class, same teacher, and what this was in sophomores, and the kids would write these children's plays, and then the acting class that I was in, we picked the best ones and then we'd go around and we perform them for all the elementary schools in our district. And that was really my first experience with acting and kind of got the bug right around then.

00:10:23
Speaker 2: But you didn't move out to LA until you were in your mid twenties? Is that right?

00:10:28
Speaker 4: Oh? La, I'd say twenty seven, twenty eight years old. I was in New York for since I started acting in ninety five, when I was in New York for three years before I moved out that way.

00:10:39
Speaker 3: Okay, So were you doing theater in New York?

00:10:41
Speaker 5: Is that how you got in?

00:10:43
Speaker 4: No? I was on it was on As the World Turns.

00:10:46
Speaker 2: Okay, so As the worldlind I was over there and gotcha, I mean you When you did move out to LA, it only took seven weeks for you. No, No, that was in New York. It only took you seven weeks to book your first job on As the World Turns? Is that correct?

00:10:59
Speaker 4: You had it right the first time. It took me nine months to get my first job in New York with no agent, by the way, and you know I did my own deal with with CBS on that and.

00:11:11
Speaker 3: She's kept that kept that's great.

00:11:16
Speaker 4: Guys, it was. It was a crap deal, don't I don't recommend it.

00:11:21
Speaker 1: It's like representing yourself in a murder trial.

00:11:23
Speaker 4: It probably well, yeah, bad call. And then I just said, because I knew one of the guys on the show and he was like, hey, there's this great part. Want you. I can get you an audition, And when I ended up getting a damn thing, and I'm like, just you know, just give me whatever you got him give him. And he got a bad deal too, So we're like, all right, but Danielle, so you had it right the first time. So nine months in New York, But yes, when I landed in Venice Beach, it took about seven week You guys want to hear crazy story real quick? Please?

00:11:54
Speaker 5: All right?

00:11:55
Speaker 4: So in ninety eight, spring of ninety eight and I decided New York, I'm done. I got to go to l A. I've never been there, scared to sell load up the U haul with everything that I own, which is like, you know, half the truck in the school, and then I've got the girlfriend in there too. And of course, if you've ever done that drive, you got four days, three days coming off fast to drive and do a lot of thinking. So you know, I'm this new green actor, hasn't done much at all, and I'm thinking, Okay, what are the two shows, like, what are the couple of shows that I'd really want to do? You know, if I had my pick? If the Stars the line that had my pick, and I was I was a big fan of Party five at the time. They were kind on the tail end of their you know, they're run, but I'm like, you know, that'd be a great show to do. And there was this other show that I had seen the pilot with this girl climbing up the ladder into this dude's window, and I, you know, and I remember watching the pilot Dawson's and thinking this thing is going to be a huge hit, And you know, a couple of months later, sure enough, it was everybody really started to love it, and I'm like, I would love, you know, on that show. So I I obsessed about those two programs for four days. That's just how I was back then, just hyper focused. I roll into La. My first appointment this is Crazy was for Party five Wow. And it wasn't a big role either. It was it was to play Neb's boyfriend. I think one of the London I think Jeremy London ended up getting it. I screwed that audition off. It was terrible. I mean I was nervous. It was my first big one in LA. You know how it goes. And then a couple of weeks later, I had a general appointment, And for you, for your listeners, a general is basically it's not an audition. You just go in and it's a meet and greet. I'm new in town, I am Curve, who I'm all about? Blah blah blah blah blah. And it was with Kathleen Lettery, who was, as you know, the head casting director of the WB back then, and uh we just talked, not even not acting, for like thirty minutes. I remember sitting in her office on the couch. I get up, Thank you very much, and I thought it went okay, and she goes out. You know, I'll never hear from this woman again, And sure enough, before I got to the door, she says her, I don't know what it is, but I'm going to find a place for you on our network.

00:14:04
Speaker 5: Jeez.

00:14:05
Speaker 4: Cut to a couple of weeks later and five auditions, I'm on Dawson's Creek.

00:14:09
Speaker 5: Wow, so cool?

00:14:11
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you want to talk about manifestation there is?

00:14:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:14:16
Speaker 2: Did you think, oh, this just must want to be like this is what it's like for people who moved to LA and want to become out. Did you know how crazy it was?

00:14:26
Speaker 4: I knew how special a situation it was, and I knew how I was blessed. Really, so I felt that.

00:14:33
Speaker 1: Well, you said five auditions later? Was it five random auditions or did you have to audition five times for Dawson's Creek. I think I read because you know, back then we were I was reading for the casting director out of the gate, and then you did, you know, do the producer's meeting and whatever. I think I probably did three of those, and then of course I had the network and studio at Tesse.

00:14:50
Speaker 4: I thought, wow, yeah.

00:14:52
Speaker 2: Wow, And so you were. You said you were about twenty seven to twenty eight, but you were playing sixteen on the show.

00:14:59
Speaker 3: Right.

00:15:00
Speaker 4: Meredith and I were the old guys on the show, the mcfees we came in. Yeah, we were both in our late twenties and everybody else. Michelle was fifteen when she started, right man Right.

00:15:13
Speaker 2: We had a similar situation on our show with Trina, who played Angela. She was twenty six at the time that she joined. She had two kids, she was pregnant with her third, and we were all teenagers.

00:15:25
Speaker 1: She was making out with Ryder, who's seventeen.

00:15:27
Speaker 2: Guys, did you have an easy time blending in with the younger cast who already had a season together under their belt once you got to North Carolina?

00:15:40
Speaker 4: You know, I was nervous. It was nice going into it with Meredith. She started one episode before me, but we came down to Wilmington the same time, so we went through that whole casting process together too, So that helped integrating, integrating into a cast of four that had I mean, we'd only done thirteen you remember that first season was the season replacement, so they hadn't done that many. But the show was a hit over the summer, it just became huge. And I remember getting out of the truck and I think one of the first people I saw was Josh and I remember I'm saying, it is, dude, give it two months, get ready, your life's going to change. I was like, oh, sure enough, it did. But it was to answer your question, Daniel was super easy. I mean, everybody jelled together really nicely. You know, it just worked.

00:16:28
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

00:16:28
Speaker 5: Good.

00:16:29
Speaker 2: How was it handling that kind of spotlight? At the time, there were SNL spoofs, rolling stone covers there. It was a lot. How did you guys handle all that?

00:16:39
Speaker 4: Uh? We just here's the cool What did you guys shoot? Were you in La Yeah? Yeah, okay, So being in Wilmington, it's like you're not in Hollywood. You're in it's like a camp type of atmosphere, is how I always say it something or just a bubble, and you don't really know what's going on because you're working so much and you know, you were in all these hours and you just I didn't I don't pay attention to the publicity and all that, so I didn't really know what was going on until you start you go to the grocery store or whatever. Then you know what's going on for hundreds of people start showing up at set, you know, on location in Wilmington, and there's you know, a couple hundred people across the across the street from all over the world. That started happening on st So then you know, okay, we're doing something pretty cool here.

00:17:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you were immediately thrown into a relationship with Joey played by Katie Holmes. You were a foil for everyone who was shipping the Dawson Joey will they or won't they? Did you ever run into angry.

00:17:40
Speaker 4: Fans back then, you mean just getting in the way between the.

00:17:44
Speaker 2: Two of them, Yes, yeah, I don't.

00:17:46
Speaker 4: Remember, because it was it was such a short lived story. Okay, I'm sure you want to talk about this, But obviously Kevin Mosman had different plans.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly, Yeah, in a different direction.

00:17:58
Speaker 4: I mean when I was hired, you're right, was hired to create a wedge in between Dawson and Llanster things up. But as you know, a character like that probably is not going to last very long. It's not very like yet. Yeah, so I'm glad he went down to get the road.

00:18:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, you stuck around a lot longer.

00:18:14
Speaker 3: Well, see if you know when you were cast that that was the direction the character was going to know.

00:18:18
Speaker 4: Okay, wow, nobody knew.

00:18:21
Speaker 1: I didn't know you're going to make television history at that point, right.

00:18:24
Speaker 4: The w B didn't know. Sony didn't know the No, none of the producers knew. It was a It was a it was an idea in Kevin Williamson's head. That's it. Jeez. Wow. Yeah. I just had a long conversation with Kevin a few months ago about all this, really for the first time, because I'm in the middle of writing a book from Dawson's Creed and Kevin was kind enough to give me hours on hours of material and we were just talking about the old days, and he told me how difficult it really was to get the network to agree to go down, you know, and have a story like that for the first time.

00:18:58
Speaker 5: Right, So did he it in his mind? And that is just close to the chest.

00:19:03
Speaker 4: So like on Dawson's every like before, Uh, the four guys, they're all facets of Kevin's personality. Kevin's really Kate, you know, and then the jokes there's Josh and you know, the Brainy Guys is uh Is Dawson, and of course the wild Side is Michelle. But nobody was representing his sexuality at that time because he was in the closet publicly, and he wanted to come out publicly, you know, beyond his family and friends. And I think he wanted to do that with Jack.

00:19:35
Speaker 2: Wowow that's so beautiful. Yeah, I mean, especially for at that time, it was unheard of for network TV to see a main character have that kind of groundbreaking turn to be revealed that he was gay. Do you remember when you were first told of the storyline. How did you learn it was going to happen.

00:19:56
Speaker 4: I'll never forget. It's an entire chap in the book. Yeah. So we were shooting on location down on Front Street in Wilmington, and I remember Kevin and Greg reading. Greg Blandy was with him too. I flew down. I didn't know this until a three months ago, but they flew to Wilmington just to let me know what was going on. So he shows Kevin shows up at the set and he goes, Curry, want to get a cup of coffee. This is like two months into the job for me. I'm thinking, yeah, am I getting fired, yeah, that's going on here. So I was like, yeah, sure, and on the walk, I don't know why I thought of this, but I thought of what I just told you guys about how all the characters are different pacets of Kevin's personality, but a sexuality wasn't represented. I knew he was dead, so I'm thinking, I bet you he's going to ask me if we want to make not ask me to tell me, we're going to make Jack day. And that's exactly what happened over a cup of coffee and I see his exact words were, Kerr, we want to go down to different avenue with Jack, and I went, holy crap in my head. Yeah I did say it out loud. Yeah, So what happened was I said, look, can you give me the day or a couple of days, because I need to make some phone calls and basically call everyone that I respected their opinion of and see it. You know, I need to make the right decision here because at that time in nineteen ninety eight, this is a tough one.

00:21:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know.

00:21:29
Speaker 4: And it was a real bummer for me. Honestly, I'll be honest about this. It was I was really excited because I just got this, I just got my dream job, right, and I'm so excited, and now I'm being asked to do something very very different.

00:21:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, and very controversial at the time. I mean hugely controversial at the time.

00:21:49
Speaker 4: We had we had protests outside the stage, yelling and screaming. There was a there was a brick wall that separated me meeting my lunch from a crowd people that were angry as hell. If I had walked out there, they'd probably keep the crap out of me. Oh man, because it was in the South too, which didn't help, right. Yeah. So yeah, So I basically called everybody I knew, my dad, my agent, you know, my sister, everybody, and they all said do it. And one of the conversations I remember the most, I asked John Wesley's ship because he was there that day and we were having lunch together, and he said, Cerve, he goes, do it because you will get the best of Kevin Williams is right, Mmm, He's right, Yeah, jeez.

00:22:36
Speaker 3: But part of the risk at the time I remember, because I remember being asked to audition for a gay character, probably even later, and you know, having my manager at the time say, you know, what can happen if you play a gay characters, then your type cast is only gay characters. And I remember being like, really, oh, but it would still was a possibility that that once you're labeled as the gay actor, that's all Oh you're going to ever play that's I.

00:23:01
Speaker 4: Mean, that's all I was thinking. I mean, that's all any of us would have been thinking. I was very very scared. Now looking back in hindsight, im or just want to say this, I'm super super proud of what we pulled off because, as you know, the face of television and has changed, and I think, yes, people's acceptance of other people sexuality or whatever it might be is much more broad and much more open these days. I mean, we've got to get there on every television show now. Yes, yeah, you know it's partly because of what we did that then, yeah, but.

00:23:35
Speaker 1: It's also as an actor to be able to do something anything that changes the course of history for television and put you on the map. I mean again, people remember that the first interracial kiss ever was done on Star Trek right with Kirk and Ahura. People are going to remember that you were the first gay kill. I mean, these are this is things this is something that will never go away, and that's really amazing to have that kind of impact on something as huge as television.

00:24:01
Speaker 4: Well even to this day. You know, when we do these these consent that we all do together, I've got there's always at least one person that flew from around the world, like France, and he's back from France, comes in and he's nervous as hell, and he's got this whole thing written out and just you read it, and it just I just flew halfway around the world just to tell you this, and basically it's always the same. It's I probably would not be alive had it not been for Jack's storyline and what you guys did back then. I know, it's it's it's insane. It happens in the q and as all the time, and James and I are up there together doing these it's just the only I can't even say anything, guys. I just have to go out in the audience to just hug whoever it is, because that's all I know.

00:24:45
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, I mean as well mentioned I mean, you made history a massive step for the LGBTQ plus representation on TV when you kissed Ethan played by Adam Kaufman.

00:24:58
Speaker 2: It was the first same sex network TV kiss between two men. Can you tell us what the lead up to that was like that week of rehearsal, Like, do you remember the thoughts that you were having in your head that week?

00:25:13
Speaker 4: Well, there are two stories. There's my story and there's a story that came from the producers and writers, which I just found out, I mean from my from my side, it was basically just navigating these uncharted waters that you know, I had never gone down before. I was super nervous. You know. Adam Kaufman actually reached out to me a couple of weeks ago just run it. He didn't see it too nervous, but I'm going to talk to him about it for the book. But yeah, it was just about I wanted this to be real. Because I'll be honest with you. You can use any acting technique you want, I don't care what it is, substitution, whatever you want to do. But when you lock lips with somebody and you feel the scruff, I'm not you can't take it around that. It's like I know, oh yeah, so it was it was hard for me. I'll be honest, it was really difficult. But I just plowed through, put the blinders on and just did the best that I could. And what was most important to me is that we didn't fall into the kind of steering clips. I told Kevin this too when I agreed to do it. I said, look, I'm going to play Jack straight, and I'm going to let your writing make his situations make me gay. I'm not going to not We're not changing anything now. Sure enough, wardrobe tried to try to change my clothes and hair really everything. They did change my hair a little bit, which was cool because I felt my hair sucked anyway in the beginning. It looked like a tupe, you know. It's so that was okay, but that was the That was the goal is just to play this character straight, play it real, and just let the writing make, you know, put them in the situations that make it gay. Now. The writer producer story on that day, According to uh, I think it was June that told me that they were all on phones, like you know, the networks like make sure the cameras across the street, and Kevin's like make sure they kiss long enough, make sure the camera's right in their face. So it was this battle of getting they got all the shots because they didn't know what the network and studio were actually going to allow, and they actually ended up using something that was I wouldn't say it's an extreme close up, but it's a pretty good close up. Yeah, so it was everybody, you know, I found out everybody was pretty nervous about it. Wow.

00:27:32
Speaker 2: Do you remember hearing I'm sure you talked about the furious fans outside just a brick wall away from you on the flip side. Do you remember at the time getting any sort of positive feedback from the LGBTQ plus community.

00:27:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, that didn't happen until later actually, Okay started a couple of years later. We started getting some accolades and they were inviting me to the award ceremonies and presenting stuff. I think we want a couple of things as well for the show in that regard, But at the in the beginning, now, I don't remember a whole lot of Uh.

00:28:08
Speaker 1: Well, there's little you wonder. I would imagine there's there's a luck factor. I guess I would say that as this was taking place, this is pre social media, right, so I imagine had this same thing happened during the time of social media, it would have been a much You would have heard from both sides instantly, the hate and the love right away. Uh, the impact would have been astounding and instantaneous. So there there is a safety. We talk about this a lot. There was a safety as an actor back in the day of not having social media, especially when you're doing something this groundbreaking. I mean again, you're you're in completely uncharted territory, which you don't there's a reason it's uncharted. You don't know what's going to happen. You have no idea what what the response is going to be, especially on a show this popular that. I mean, it really could have changed that in a bad way, could have could have negatively affected the show, and it just didn't. It went it went the opposite direction. So yeah, yeah, thank god for no social media at the time, especially when you're doing something that you know is probably going to split some of your audience off.

00:29:10
Speaker 4: I agree, I would love to go back to those days. God, I so much more work. I know.

00:29:21
Speaker 2: Well, you would appear on the show right through At season six series finale. Was it hard to say goodbye to a character that you had experienced so much with.

00:29:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, I mean, you guys know how it is, season three, season four. Somewhere in there he started to get the edge to do something else. But you'll also realize that, you know, thank this is the dream job. So you hang in there, and you know, when everybody just kind of comes in agreement, like I think we're done for us in season six, you gotta let go. And you know, my wife and I watch Friends all the time, and you know, every once in a while they come across that last episode. I always, you know, and their standing there and think Chandler, they wanted to get a cup of coffee, and challenges are like where they all walk out and that's it.

00:30:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:30:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, I always cried every single time I see it because it reminds me of what I went through on that So I get that it was super sad. And of course, you know, the episode itself was about Jen dying, so it was that was also sad. So it was it was a tough two parter to pull off. I'd say those those two episodes and the one where Meredith leaves and season four, I think it was that was a tough one too.

00:30:34
Speaker 2: Emotional episodes, different emotion, different emotion.

00:30:37
Speaker 1: When you get a Dawson's Creek than you do when we have emotional episodes of boyt Me to world, slightly different things. I would say now curiously because again, as Danielle said at the beginning, as actors, for the most part, I mean I was where I was supposed to be. But Danielle Ryder a lot of the cast were like looking at stuff like Dawson's Creek and going that, that's what I want to do, That's what I want to have. Did you ever have the op? Was there ever a time, like you say, you like friends, did you ever look at, you know, a three camera sitcom with an audience and go God? Doing Dawson's Creek like shooting a movie every day for years is fun. But man, I'd love to do that audience show. I'd love to get in there and be on like a regular sitcom. Was that something that you ever wanted to do?

00:31:17
Speaker 4: It's something I would do, but it wasn't a strong desire. I've always been a drama guy. I just love it. And you know what you brought a star Trek. I'm always been. I'm a huge sci fi every and I had never ever done anything in space.

00:31:34
Speaker 1: Whyd you be perfect. Oh my god, you'd be a perfect like young captain on a Star Trek something. Are you kidding me?

00:31:39
Speaker 4: I would you know a movie of these cons and you know sometimes you got the Star Trek people there, like I had Brent Spiner next to me a few months ago, and I'm just sitting here going.

00:31:51
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

00:31:52
Speaker 3: It's amazing.

00:31:53
Speaker 4: So yes, I would very much like to do something like that.

00:31:56
Speaker 1: That's shocking to me because I think you'd be perfect for a young captain kind of or or or the New Exo something like that. Perfect. Oh my god, it's great casting.

00:32:04
Speaker 4: Let's put it out there.

00:32:05
Speaker 3: Yeah at the U haul, Yeah, drive for four days, just.

00:32:09
Speaker 1: Manifested the rental. Exactly, a great idea.

00:32:27
Speaker 2: You're on a bit of your own pod meats world style journey. First with the amazing cast reunion on Broadway for f Cancer and the name of your castmate, James Vanderbeek. All of the original cast attended. James unfortunately couldn't make it. But what was that like? It looked very emotional.

00:32:45
Speaker 4: It was an extremely emotional weekend and one that I will never ever forget. It was really incredible to see everybody after twenty five years we did get together briefly in twenty eighteen for that. Wow, intimately, don't think what spread it was, but.

00:33:02
Speaker 1: Oh when we all did those think we all did those like that? We got together as a cast, you got together. There was like twenty different casts.

00:33:09
Speaker 4: A yeah, yeah, So it was good to see everybody again. It was you know, Sunday morning, I woke up to a voicemail from the director saying, call me, we gotta we got a problem, and of course it was James not being able to make it, which I mean, you know, doing these cons with in the last couple of years, I've really gotten to know James all over again, this time as you know, fifty something year olds as adults, their kids, and it's been very interesting. And this whole thing he's going through is kind of hit me hard. It's been tough and you know, to see a friend and appeer go through all this, especially you know the family that he has, which is so awesome. But so you know, I'm glad Michelle. Michelle came up with the idea to do that. You know, her husband is the director of Hamilton, so he was kind enough to let us use their stages and their crew on Monday when we were down. Yeah, it was a fantastic weekend. We got James to record something, so he was there spirit and video. It was just incredible. Thirteen hundred people probably have the best time in their lives.

00:34:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were.

00:34:22
Speaker 4: It was like we were like the Beatles. It was insane. It was every The way we laid it out was we had these two rows of seats where we all sat down, and then there was the five podiums, and then when when the narrator would you know, interior Dawson's house, whatever, we would walk up where it was in the scene and we'd do it at the podiums. And the first time that you walk up to do your first scene, every single one of it, we had to stand there for like twenty seconds thirty seconds until people say it, because then they were just screaming. It was insane that it was really fun.

00:34:56
Speaker 2: That's so nice, so nice and Linn Manuel Miranda stepped in for James. Do you do you think he captured the essence of Dawson.

00:35:05
Speaker 4: I think there's only one person that can capture Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, he did a great job and we will certainly appreciated of it.

00:35:13
Speaker 2: Do you feel like the pilot episode held up.

00:35:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean it's just so raw. It's so good, you know, with Miss Tomorrow and you know that whole storyline was so controversial back then with Josh in the Future, just you know, people loved it. It was just out of the blue. And the way that the characters talk like they're thirty five years old. Kevin has always said it's how people would talk with their heart. That their heart, which I was so is a beautiful way said it better than I think, but yeah, it was just yeah, it held up. To answer your.

00:35:50
Speaker 2: Question, is there a big Dawson's Creek group text chat?

00:35:56
Speaker 4: You mean between us?

00:35:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, amongst you guys.

00:36:00
Speaker 4: I know there are many single chats from me to them talking. You know, hey, do you remember what happened on set twenty six years ago? Are you crazy? No?

00:36:13
Speaker 2: Leave me alone?

00:36:14
Speaker 1: That's our life, that's our life.

00:36:18
Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, quote, I need something for this. This I don't remember.

00:36:22
Speaker 2: It's crazy y because you were going down an even bigger trip down memory lane with your book. I don't want to wait my journey on Dawson's Creek without a paddle. It comes out next year. It's all about your journey and your experiences on set. What is it like sending yourself back, like your own little time machine, back to certain days on set in order to write the book.

00:36:44
Speaker 4: It's been a whirl when it's been a lot of work. I think I've interviewed like twenty five something like that people, everybody, And what I found out is that actors can't remember everybody else can. I mean the directory, stories, the pas, I mean casting everybody. Writers, The writers remember everything.

00:37:09
Speaker 2: Yep.

00:37:10
Speaker 4: It's just it was just really interesting to call everybody up and do these zooms and just you know, talk about the old days and how much fun we had. Yeah, you guys, we had so much fun every week every weekend because we were on the water, right, we would as a group and this isn't just you know, the five of us. We would all get together whoever was guest, starring, crew, everybody, and we would jump on all the boats that anybody had a boat, Jetskin's. We would congregate this place called Dockside on the water. We would load up beer, hot dog, you know, burghers, everything and we go out to this island called mason Boro Island and we would just party out all day. On the water and we did that like almost every single weekend. Man, I had been trying to recreate that experience for the last twenty five years and I have not been do it.

00:38:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there is the it's the camaraderie. That's the thing. Is we're going through the same journey, obviously, and so where each of us are remembering little parts of it, but all of us remember the fun. That's all it is is that vibe, the fun, the feeling of family and just you know, you're going through the same thing with people that you love, and it's that's the thing that you remember the most. And you're right, you do. You try to chase that because it's just it's magical, it really is.

00:38:30
Speaker 2: Well, it's already already been all over the press that in the book you talk about a script that was written for a Jack and Doug spinoff. And so for those listeners who don't know, Jack ends up with a guy named Doug Witter and together they will raise Jen's daughter Amy. So one tell us what the script is like, and two tell us who we beat up? Since it didn't happen, who.

00:38:56
Speaker 4: We beat up? Who you beat up? Is the head of Programm Against Sony that's who. That's where it's stopping. Unfortunately. Yeah, it's a great script. I mean, the easiest way to say it is, it's the Fosters with two dudes, and you've got the aesthetic of you know, Cape site, and you can bring in all the main characters for cameos. But unfortunately Sony wants the main characters in it all the time. That's that's right. So apparently I don't know Jack, Doug and a few other derecis from michell on enough to do a spin off, which is to me, is crazy odd because Sony is sitting on the most valuable ip out there and doing nothing with it. Yeah, you know, it's it's unfortunate. So I'm hoping, you know, there'll be enough pushback where the powers that be will go. I think we take a second look at this, because I think it'd be really fun. I would certainly do it. I would love to, you know, raise a bunch of rug rats and we have Jen's kid too, and we raise and have a little house like Joey's or something on the great Yeah.

00:40:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, that this business doesn't know what it is anymore, and so everybody, no one will pull the trigger on anything. Everybody's too scared to do anything unless it's a four million dollar Marvel movie, which they know they'll probably make their money back. You're not gonna nobody's doing anything anymore.

00:40:23
Speaker 4: My question is why are they pulling the trigger on all these spin offs of what No? Two? One? Oh? And somebody Who is another show that's doing not a spinoff, but it's another big show that's doing one. Now they are doing the bringing back they watch again, Yeah, yeah, watching that, especially in like four K.

00:40:53
Speaker 2: Finally, I am sure between the book and the reunion event, you have been thinking a lot about Dawson's Creek. If you could go back in time and tell yourself something then twenty five years later, what would it be.

00:41:08
Speaker 4: Relax and enjoy, Enjoy the moment. Always enjoy the moment. Try and be in the moment all the time. You know, back then, I was always looking ahead and behind and everywhere else I could, just to make sure that I didn't make a fool myself or that. But I could, and now I realize it's staying in the present moment is the best absolute hm.

00:41:33
Speaker 2: Man, Yep, we feel very much the same.

00:41:36
Speaker 1: Run. We can't say what everybody says, my youth is wasted on the young. You just you don't have the wisdom yet.

00:41:42
Speaker 2: So yeah, thank you so much for being here with us. It was a pleasure to talk to you. I can't wait to read the book right on.

00:41:48
Speaker 4: Guys, thanks for having me appreciate it.

00:41:51
Speaker 1: Thank you here. You know, it's always amazing to talk to other actors, but so rare to meet one that really does have a solid piece of television history that will never go away. I mean, again, as being a television junkie, that's something to be on a list of first of whatever. Like I read a really random article yesterday where an episode of Leave It to Beaver they had to keep shooting and reshooting, and the network kept pulling it because they showed the first toilet ever because no one was ever supposed to use.

00:42:26
Speaker 2: A bathroom an offensive toilet it was.

00:42:28
Speaker 1: So they had to reshoot it where you could just see the top of the tank of the toilet. You couldn't actually, So it's like any any time you hit one of those milestones. So you know, first interracial kiss huge star Trek, the first gay kiss ever on Cara. I mean, he's he's got a piece of television history forever?

00:42:44
Speaker 5: Are there any of those left there?

00:42:45
Speaker 3: Anything that's not been on television that still will be?

00:42:49
Speaker 1: Who knows? I mean there was like because remember like the old school shows the husband and wife never shared a band.

00:42:55
Speaker 2: I mean, what about the first prime network TV thrupple.

00:42:59
Speaker 5: There you go, that's been done.

00:43:00
Speaker 1: Though, you know what, you know it'll be you know how disgusting we're becoming. It's going to become the first actual death on TV. Yeah, it'll be something like that, Like we're really going to film it. It'll be something horrible because all the good stuff is basically all the things that show progress in some way are pretty much I think you're right, they're pretty much gone.

00:43:18
Speaker 6: Right.

00:43:20
Speaker 2: A really interesting, really smart idea too, for him to write a book, you know, like every everyone's starting a podcast. Yeah, how many people are writing books?

00:43:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, we should do this podcast.

00:43:29
Speaker 3: Sounds like he's going about it the right way to interviewing other people, like as opposed to just what do I remember, let me just talk about myself. He's like really trying to get the story from everybody else.

00:43:40
Speaker 5: I think that's really smart.

00:43:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean he took the idea of a podcast and said, let's put it in words, you know, like, let's it's.

00:43:48
Speaker 1: Like a written podcast. Why I didn't know that was a thing, Like they made a book out of that. Amazing.

00:43:57
Speaker 2: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Pod Meets World as all. You can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com. And we've got merch.

00:44:07
Speaker 1: I don't want to merch.

00:44:09
Speaker 2: For your merch to me, merchie.

00:44:14
Speaker 5: Merchie, merch rchie. I don't know is that a good thing.

00:44:17
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to find out.

00:44:23
Speaker 2: Pod Meets Worldshow dot com writer send us out.

00:44:27
Speaker 5: We love you all, pod dismissed.

00:44:31
Speaker 3: Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tarasubach, producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at podmeets World Show or email us at podmeets World Show at gmail dot com.