NFL Daily 32: Ranking the Best Head Coaches

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily thirty two, where we love starting a new ranking series.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: I'm Greg Rosenthal.

00:00:11
Speaker 1: I'm with Jordan Rodrive and Ali Connolly, and this is going to be the first of our off season shows, yes, ranking the league one to thirty two at various positions, various position groups, and in this case the NFL head coaches. Just to set the parameters. Before I get you guys in here, Jordan and Ali, I'm going to bring in our producer, Eric Roberts, to set the order of the picks. We're going to go one by one, just picking who we would take to coach our team in the year twenty twenty six where they're at right now. It's not a lifetime achievement award. Who we think is the very best coach in the league right now would go number one, and so on and so forth. We'll go one by one. And there was some concern in the studio earlier this week between Eric and Patrick Claybon that I was gonna like stick my finger on the scale and give myself the first pick or make Jordan have it to put her in a difficult spot. So we didn't want to do that, and for integrity's sake, Patrick suggested he sets the order randomly.

00:01:13
Speaker 2: Eric, what is the order that Patrick Clayban has said.

00:01:16
Speaker 3: Well, a peek behind the curtain a little bit here is you guys all kind of like, well, we don't know who it is, and it's like, well, probably should be McVeigh, right, it should be mcvagh. Yeah, And then you guys are like, well, we don't know who's going to be first. Who's going to pick first? A direct quote from Patrick Clayban to me after he sent me this order. Hopefully this, Hopefully this saved you fifteen minutes of them squawking when they're all taking McVeigh.

00:01:35
Speaker 1: Anyway, we'll see, we don't want to give that away.

00:01:40
Speaker 2: Give me, give me the order.

00:01:41
Speaker 3: Eric, You're first, followed by joh by Ali.

00:01:45
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, goodbye.

00:01:47
Speaker 4: That's there's a blanding spot for your girl, Jordan.

00:01:50
Speaker 1: Yes, that that worked out well for you. And we'll keep that order throughout and as we make these rankings. I'm really looking forward to this, uh the whole off season, and it'll kind of be an annual idea of like where the league is at. Another possible title for this series would have been like NFL Yearly but we like NFL thirty two. It just sounds a little snappier, and I will take McVeigh. I'm not gonna honk anymore. I think one thing that maybe separated him versus some of the other guys that'll be higher maybe like Kyle Shanahan for instance, is knowing when to get involved in the front office when not to get involved. It's the full picture that he has the building and has the vision for the building, and of course he has the flexibility to change what he needs to on a game to game basis, snap to snap basis. I think he's helped to learn through his mistakes and the thing that maybe put him over the top better than anyone is he has learned how to survive all the pilfering of his coaches and how to develop coaches over the year. So you add it all up, I do think he is the total package. And I don't know if if you would have had him first or not. Ali what makes see Levaean McVay.

00:03:01
Speaker 5: I would have had him first. I think to me it's the adaptability and it's been able to see where the league is going two years ahead of time. But some things in place those two years before then kind of race to the end point before everyone else. When he goes all in, he goes all in. We saw it last season with the twelve and thirteen personnel stuff that I know everyone's been talking about, and even you can see right now with bringing Cliff Kingsbury in what his intent I think is going to be over the coming season, which is, as everyone else tries to catch up to what he did the year before, he's already thinking of the next steps. Can you add more temper when can you be spread from twelve and thirteen personnel? Can we go and steal a Patriots twenty eleven offense and make that the base of our offense while everyone is trying to copycat what we did a year ago. So I just think the general adaptability, obviously the play calling separates him from everyone.

00:03:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, he has our way of being able to identify exactly what it will be that will set his team apart from others. And that's also on defense with the hires that he makes too. We're going to talk about a couple of really great coaches today and I think a lot of them share the same quality where they go out and they hire a defensive mind who's going to kick their ass in practice all the time and wants them to do that because it makes their offense better and it makes them able to troubleshoot a little bit more functionally. That leads to how can I troubleshoot things in a game? And so for me, we sort of jumped right into this. I'd love to hear a little bit more about you guys's rankings and how you came across, like putting your board together and all of that, But I know that I had a few tiers and he was certainly at the top of my tier one. Looking at working how a coach works with his GM, very collaborative between himself and less sneed, although he.

00:04:40
Speaker 4: Does have a big say over that.

00:04:41
Speaker 6: First overall, pick how they build scheme, how they build culture, how they build team identity, and how they solve problems, and I think he's at the top of the board for all of those things.

00:04:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I included all that, and I think all those sort of qualities will come up as we're talking about these different guys. And I didn't want to make this a lifetime achievement of work, but I do think the experience and the emotional intelligence that you accrue from making mistakes is an advantage to coaches, maybe right in the prime of their career, like Sean McVay, where he's not learning things the first time, but also maybe he's got the energy of a forty year old. That's a nice combination. You have the number two overall, Pick Jordan, who you got.

00:05:22
Speaker 6: I'm going with Andy Reid here again, this is not a lifetime achievement award.

00:05:27
Speaker 4: I think that he sometimes gets left out of the.

00:05:29
Speaker 6: Conversation of some of the great minds currently coaching right now because he is on the older side.

00:05:34
Speaker 4: But the dude still got the juice.

00:05:36
Speaker 6: And if I need to scheme my way out of this one batman like, I'm gonna call Andy Reid, right. I think that he is so creative. He's got this very really interesting managerial style where we mentioned that on a previous show, Greg, he can almost like fire you or not renew your contract and bring in somebody to fill your position. That is matter, Maggie, and you won't even realize happening because of the way that it happens to you, right, And I think that that is he's got really strong manager qualities as well as well as all of the coaching acumen.

00:06:10
Speaker 4: He just understands the sport.

00:06:12
Speaker 6: He lets his coaches that he hires cook, He hires really really good assistance and lets them do their jobs. So he has an eye for talent in all of these phases that make a coach really really good at what he does, and every coach is copying him.

00:06:26
Speaker 2: Still.

00:06:27
Speaker 6: There's a few of these guys that every coach is chasing still at this time, and Andy Reid is one of them. And I would prefer to have a coach right now who is being chased versus doing the chasing.

00:06:36
Speaker 2: He finished number one a lot last year when we did this ring. He was the first one.

00:06:40
Speaker 1: I had a much lower this year, I had him sixth on my board. Wo wow, Oli's making a face. I know he got to the Super Bowl with a very flawed team in twenty four nothing's going to phase like.

00:06:50
Speaker 2: He's still great.

00:06:52
Speaker 1: If he made the super Bowl right now, he would be the oldest coach that ever make the Super Bowl. That plus Ali maybe like a little relative lack of new fresh ideas lately. And I'm thinking about right now, you're telling me, right now do I get for this year?

00:07:07
Speaker 2: I would put some of the younger guns ahead of him.

00:07:10
Speaker 5: Am I overreacting maybe a little bit? I would have had him second too. My concern was I think bringing Eric the Enemy back was a real signal of these organizations do get old and tired really fast. And he's been at the forefront of everything for so long. It would have been really nice to see him do innate shield us thing a couple of years ago and bringing one of the high end college guys and keep infusing ideas. And when he was first with the Chiefs with Mike Kafka, that was all they were about, is this inferno of ideas. Go and find plays in Japan, go and find plays in Germany. But let's bring them in around Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelsey and Tirey Kill. That might work. And it was one of the most exhilarating things I've ever seen. I think when it stays in the family for as long as they've kept it. Now you can go through their O line, coach, special teams, coach, go look at the assistant roster. They've all been there the entire time. I would have liked to have seen him maybe inject some new fresh ideas, but just a play design, game planned, scheme builder on his own, He's still one of the top three four guys in the league and probably will be for as long as he wants to do this thing.

00:08:07
Speaker 1: And he gets a little extra credit for being able to keep have a system where you actually can keep Steve Spagnolo happy all these years and knowing that he's the guy and you're right running the building. He's maybe the best at that. Who do you take number three? This is a pivot point in this draft.

00:08:24
Speaker 5: I'm taking Mike McDonald from the Seahawks is my pick. I think he's the Sean mcvagh of the defensive side of the ball. I think his ability to see the overall program and not just be stuck and focused his side of the ball really stands out compet to a lot of the defensive guys. A lot of them wind up having this kind of two buildings split where they leave the offensive guys alone, they stay stuck to the defensive side of the ball. I think he's got a real global view of the building. Has took a lot of what McVeigh has done structurally and then planted it into the Seahawks, and I just really admired the gutsy decision to move on from Ryan grob after a year, to move on from Gino to bet On Kuback and Sam Donald. It just meekes to somebody. I think he's got the big pitch of perspective. Then you can get into all kind of the schematic side where he really is an advanced competitive. A lot of what's happening in the league is another guy like McVay, where everyone's trying to steal and copy what he's trying to do. And even less season, it was less scheme centric than he has been his entire career. He recognized the personnel he had, he overhauled the scheme and made it way more basic than it was even back at Michigan, because he's like, we have the dudes up front, Let's just let those guys rip off the ball. We'll cycle through them, and that's our best path to winning this thing.

00:09:26
Speaker 2: Hard to argue with that.

00:09:27
Speaker 1: I definitely am biased towards the offensive coaches, But Jordan, you want the coach like McDonald to me that is not following the trend, that is setting the trend, because it gives you confidence that he's going to continue that and be able to replicate that even if the offense does go.

00:09:43
Speaker 2: Up and down a little bit. Through his tenure in Seattle.

00:09:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's my number three overall coach in the first tier obviously on my big board, and he was close to being two. I went back and forth quite a bit to being with him being number two. He adjusts and evolves as well as the best are doing it, if not better than the best are doing it. His scheme to player fit and the communication of will what will work and what won't work in his defense is impeccable. It's at the very very top in terms of how coaches identified traits and talent and also adjust things to fit the players that they have. He's a culture builder, he's an identity builder. Even though people did raise their eyebrows when he first came in and he took all of the pictures of the Legion of Boom and all of those era photos off the wall because he wanted to try something new. You know, good for him that it worked out, because it could have backfired really badly on him doing something like that. And I wrote in my notes, he's a menace to the tree and that was needed at this point.

00:10:48
Speaker 1: Yes, the tree being of course, the Kyle Sanahan, Sean McVay tree, that's what he's hired to be. He did it, and most importantly, he was an NFL Daily guest after he won of Super Bowl. That's a forever thing. I did have him one spot behind Kyle Shanahan. So that's who I'm gonna take number three. But I debated between those three and four. It's silly to go with like the knocks, like the only tiny knocks you could give. Shanahan and McVeigh would maybe fall into this. Two would be game management at times gets a little frustrating, but just in terms of efficiency on offense, if you're going DVA the last five years, second, ninth, first, fifth, sixth, and that's with Purdy and you know Jimmy Garoppolo at quarterback, it's just awesome. There's a reason why everyone's been copying him. There's there's a reason why. I think his dad is, you know, the most influential offense of mine maybe the last forty years, and Kyle's taking all of that and done it to another level.

00:11:49
Speaker 2: I think if you were asking.

00:11:50
Speaker 1: Owners all around the league, like whoo, who would you want as your head coach? Like I think he would finish first or second on that on a lot of people's boards along with McVeigh Alie.

00:12:03
Speaker 5: I think McVeigh would would run the table in that category. I do think that Shannahan has a different vibe to McVeigh. The thing, I do think McVeigh as a real commitment to the entirety of the building and the things you just read out were indicative of a great offensive coach as opposed to a great all around head coach. Shan is outstanding. He raises the floor I think higher than any of these guys. I think McVeagh can bought him out more than Shanna and in terms of just the offensive side of the ball, but in terms of the overall running of offense, defense special teams wants the vibe of the building. I always feel with Shannan there is a chance that by week nine, if he's just not feeling it and the the locker room isn't feeling it, it could just kind of slowly slip off the cliff. Whereas I always feel like mcvay's got something extra in him to kind of rally things.

00:12:45
Speaker 1: And it has in the past, and it really is interesting reading some of the reports out of San Francisco, Jordan. You know, even Kyle talking to Rich Eisen about his scouting process, which got a lot of attention. I don't think it was that big of a deal, but it all happened before his weaknesses hit everything that he does. I was covering the Mike Shanahan Ladder era and it's like it's all the same strengths and weaknesses, but I still love them.

00:13:11
Speaker 6: It's a similar pattern after his dad. To be sure, Greg where it's tough, it's a tough environment, but if you survive, you're just going to be better than everyone else. And the coaches that come out of that building, they know it, and it is fun to get them pre Kyle and then post Kyle and talk to them about kind of what they experienced and what they learned because it is an intensive it's an intensive arena for them to be and I think one of the things where he's not known for reaching into the defensive side as much, he has a knack for hiring defensive coaches who, similar to McVeigh and similar to these other coaches, Andy Reid, these coaches we're going to talk about, can control their own ecosystem at a very very high level that is highly competitive with the offensive side, which does create tension within an organization and within a building. And you know, you hear stories of this all the time. But at the same time, if it works at its best, it makes the entire team much more competitive and much more able to problem solve quickly, and even whether it's mid game or mid season. And I think it's interesting because he was, let's see, fourth on my overall big board. But it is interesting because I was watching some of those scouting comments and he's always been known as someone who's really collaborated with John Lynch.

00:14:34
Speaker 4: Obviously, I don't know.

00:14:35
Speaker 6: A single coach that's not starting their college tape watching in February.

00:14:40
Speaker 4: I mean I would.

00:14:41
Speaker 6: It would be really, really difficult to find a single NFL head coach that is not starting their tape watching in February and is doing so using packages and buckets of clips that the scouting department is parsing through and sending. That's literally their job. So all of this is a bit confused to me narrative wise. On the outside, I get, I get their draft was very eyebrow raising. I'm not gonna, you know, shy away from that, but they have a process and they stick to their process, and a lot of that's.

00:15:11
Speaker 4: Driven by Kyle.

00:15:12
Speaker 2: All right, you're up with number five, Jordan.

00:15:14
Speaker 6: Oh yes, my this is nice. It's playing right into my hands. Thanks, guys. I'm picking Ben Johnson. I've seen enough.

00:15:22
Speaker 4: After one year.

00:15:23
Speaker 6: It's it's a little bit. This is where the first one we could call it maybe a reach. Uh, this is gonna be my my reach pick a little bit, but I didn't want someone else to get him. Frankly, one year, one year in with him, and I've seen enough of how he approaches the problem solving of what the job is. Competence is now the floor in Chicago, and that's so high to me relative to the parody throughout the entire league that that is an absolute edge and advantage for a team to have. It's one of the most fun, interesting, dynamic offenses in football right now. It's top three, top two, and schemes I like to watch. And I think that even if they're paying a little bit less attention to personnel on the defensive side of the ball, they believe that they are going to score enough points to stay competitive, highly competitive, and he clearly reaches into every part of the building as well. Takes a very specific personality type to do that. Some try to do that and they drown. I don't think he will. I think that he will continue to ascend. And I also like that he has this edge to him where he's not of the other guys. Right, he's not of the club, but he lets it be known that that also fuels him and gives it an edge.

00:16:38
Speaker 4: And I think we need more of that in coaching.

00:16:39
Speaker 1: Frankly, No, he's got the juice. I made a mistake. I should have taken him. I initially had written him down as like second overright, the only thing.

00:16:47
Speaker 4: Here's my Mackay Lemon.

00:16:49
Speaker 2: Yes, the only thing that puts.

00:16:50
Speaker 1: In you know that is a risk for him is these guys have proven that they can do it year after year after year, and he burns so hot that you do worry about, you know, how does he react to adversity? How how like when when things aren't going well, how is he going to manage the relationship with the front office, which has been fine so far. I think he's an important part of that long term. Like you don't really know it, but look, most coaches, if they're gonna win big win it early, and and that's that informed my decision. Mine mine runs a little younger at the high end of the list because he can create mismatches Ali with the best of him. But I do think he showed in his first year that he has a good idea globally what he wants from the entire team. Run, pass, defense, all all of it marrying together.

00:17:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's what separates me. He's not just one of the scheme wiz kids. He's just this beautiful footballing psychopath. He reminds me. And I know this is somewhat bloshemous, but when I watch him, the intensity, the kind of like Mosa football side, with the kind of like miss Psycho stuff going on. I mean, this is the guy who's on a family vacation and he set up all and I thinking about play for Luthor Burden, Like how can you not want that in your coach. It reminds me of that there's an old it might still be on YouTube and inside Michigan State film with Nick Saban, and he really has that kind of edged him where you get all this fengal the football side, there's a drive to oversee everything and run every single department the way he sees it should be done. And I thought the maturity in bringing Dennis Allen, Dennis Allen could have tied himself to basically anyone in the offseason last year, and he looked and said, that guy's got the goods that term rolling with. I believe in Caayler Williams, I believe in Ben Johnson. That's where I'm gonna go and kind of reboot this thing. And I think they've got a chance to do a Reedspagnolo type thing for at least four or five years here, as long as Dennis Allen wants to hang around. And following that model that Mike McDonald with Leslie Fraser, that Sean mcvadd back in the day with Wade Phillips off, you've got you gotta you don't know everything, you've not done the job before, and those kind of schematic whizky guys usually get super arrogant. I know better than everyone. I need to surround myself with the old guard. And he was willing enough to say I'm stepping out of guys I've never worked with before. Hi Declan Doyle never worked with him before. I just thought he showed a very clear focus on what he thought everything should look like. But it wasn't all just it's me. It's Ben Johnson, and I'm going to run the whole show. He's the kind of overriding personality of the organization. I would say now, but he was intelligent enough to recognize where there would be weaknesses and where does hand things off.

00:19:13
Speaker 1: No, I think that was I think that was a value there at five. He could have he could have even gotten gotten higher. That's a good job by Jordan. You are up with number.

00:19:25
Speaker 5: I'm taking Jim Harbor. All he does is win. It's all he does. You can do. You can take all the fun fantasy schematic WizKids you want. I'm taking the guys who won all the ball games and his willingness to boot out his friend after all these years and say I'll go get my own little schematic wizard. I'll bring Mike McDaniel in here. We're going to renovate the offense. It's still in the image of what Jim Harbor wants it to be, but we're going to make it look new. It's gonna mean Newfangle is gonna be all the motion, the movement. I'm going to tie myself to a different style of coach with the similar underwriting principles that I believe in, and you go through his coach development. I mean, you can take it from the Michigan staff to this Charge's staff. No one identifies young coaching talent like Jim Harbor, even down to what the Baltimore guys did for years now, he's replicating, off, we need to build a minor league system in college football. I know my DC is great, he's going to leave. I'm going to bring in my defensive backs coach and tell him go find a college job for you, get play calling experience. When we lose Jesse Minta, I'm going to call you back up to the big leagues. No one else is having that kind of overall picture of where the sport is at pro to college and building out minor league rosters and sending coaching members out to lower levels to when they're ready they actually have the skills and tools available to do the job when he calls them back up to the bigs.

00:20:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: The only question I guess I would have does he have his fast fastball still? You know he's been around, but he he won eleven games in each of the last two years, two early rough exits, but one, you know, despite a lot of injuries, comes in with Harbaugh. You get an entire building way of doing things. If you're making this rankings, for give me a coach that, like for a franchise, that organizationally usually has no idea what they're doing to completely change it. Like Harbaugh ranks even higher on my list than he would just in a normal situation. And you could see that, like I know that they had the plans for the bolts and everything before Harbaugh got there, but he came in and he started literally changing things, and it just feels like an entirely different organization. He was eleventh on our board last year, so a little higher. I had him closer to that this year. It's one of my takeaways from this entire process is actually, we're in good hands.

00:21:38
Speaker 2: There's a lot of good coaches right now.

00:21:40
Speaker 5: But if he had broke Greg Roman back, oh, he had kept in the family and brought someone else, and I would feel similar to you, like, Okay, will this fastball maintained for the next two three seasons? All this year in particular, going out on GEG McDaniel tells me he still does have the festival. Yeah, he's willing to challenge himself and.

00:21:55
Speaker 2: That's maybe the most important things.

00:21:57
Speaker 1: Quickly, Jordan, before we take our first break, what's it been like covering Harbaugh here in the Los Angeles area.

00:22:03
Speaker 6: Oh, it's fascinating. You know you mentioned the changing you know, around even some of the blueprint stuff. You know, we heard stories coming out of that whole process of his bathroom was too far away, So had the blueprint like changed because it was waste He didn't want to waste time. I'm like, that's a football guy right there. He didn't want to waste time walking to the bathroom. Like. Now, this is the third hand story, so please nobody aggregate me, but someone should ask him about it. I think that he just he's a through and through football guy. I had him a little bit lower than some of these other guys that we've already talked about, just because I think being a CEO coach can be a little bit of a double edged sword. Now he backs it up, he'll lose people every year he backs it up. Because of what Ali pointed out, He's developed his own hiring network. I think that gives him an edge, a very large edge over even his brother too, because I think that his hiring network it's very intentionally and thoughtfully done, and it is he's also spanning it into like tree guys, right, and I think that it's I think that's a really interesting process and it's thoughtful, and it's something that's going to serve him well even if he continues to lose people every season.

00:23:10
Speaker 1: And the juice, the energy, you cannot say that Batman is tired, and he's getting his fingerprints in on that offense and defense.

00:23:16
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break.

00:23:17
Speaker 1: We've gotten through the top six of our board, continuing on through the Best Coaches twenty twenty six. Yes, it's our first NFL Daily.

00:23:25
Speaker 2: Thirty two of the offseason. Back I'm already having too much fun.

00:23:37
Speaker 1: Frankly, this is like Week one of the NFL season, which I always say is the best week of the season because it's just been so long and you have the most to look forward to. That that's true of this veried NFL Daily thirty two, because they have the most to look forward to in terms of ranking season. And I'm talking ball with two of my favorite people in the world to talk ball with, and I hope they like my Dan Campbell pick at number seven. Overall, want to overreact to one tough year, and even one tough year, it wasn't it wasn't that bad.

00:24:06
Speaker 2: On one hand, like okay, you won.

00:24:08
Speaker 1: Offensive play caller, I think Dan Campbell offers a strong offensive mindset and addition to everything that's gone on when Ben Johnson was there and when he wasn't, he took over the Lions and they're forty eight and thirty six since he's come over, I think his initial staff really showed the big picture thinking that you want and gives me confidence that I know every hire hasn't been perfect since, but that he'll be good at that. And we're talking about like a leader overseer. I think he kind of combines Jordan a little bit of the you know, broad kind of Jim Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin, like in control of an entire building, with the offensive acumen and just knowing the league really well. To me, he's right in his prime, So I feel like I'm getting the value here.

00:24:58
Speaker 2: At number seven.

00:24:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's still in my tier one of coaches on my on my coaching big board here, and even with the stumble last season, I have full faith that he can hire.

00:25:08
Speaker 4: That's the thing.

00:25:09
Speaker 6: I think he really can identify coaching talent, and I think learned a really big lesson last year, especially on the offensive side, that it's you know, obviously not going to always come from your internal development program and to maybe strengthen some of that internal development. A lot of coaches learn this over time, especially if they are in that CEO coach role. And similar to what I said about Ben Johnson, the floor is competence for the Lions. I don't know that seven years ago we were ever going to say that about the Detroit Gians.

00:25:39
Speaker 1: How about twenty years ago, thirty years ago, forty years ago. You got to go back to like the sixties or whatever with charge honorly or something. It's amazing totally.

00:25:47
Speaker 6: And so I think it's also like this was a culture hire just as much as it was a competence and competitiveness higher. And I think too, one of the things he really has in his favor for me and why he is Ohio on my board, is that he works so well, seemingly with the front office with ownership. It is a collaboration and they haven't really had, you know, that split or that power struggle happened. Yet you know, you never know it could over time.

00:26:16
Speaker 4: A lot of.

00:26:17
Speaker 6: Times these things sometimes ebb and flow within these teams. But you've really seen a lot of collaboration and a lot of understanding of the types of players that Dan Campbell wants to coach.

00:26:27
Speaker 4: Those are the types of guys that they go after.

00:26:29
Speaker 1: Was taken third overall last year, so it's a slight fall down to seven.

00:26:32
Speaker 2: All right, you're up Jordan with the number eight pick.

00:26:36
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is where things get a little tough. I'm gonna go Sean Payton here. I do think it's done the same if we're if we are going into right now, and not even even with his you know, obviously massive resume here. But still I still think he's got his fastball, honestly, And I also think it's very situational fit for an organization. If you hire him, you must understand that he runs the entire show in the right situation.

00:27:04
Speaker 4: I don't think that's a bad thing.

00:27:05
Speaker 6: And I also wrote in my notes here he may fight the quarterback, but he will get the most out of him.

00:27:12
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's a great thing, and it's crazy to think about. All Right, we're at number on eight of the draft. I mean we talk about the Shanahan Tree. Two of his guys, Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson have already gone, so he's one hundred and eighty one and one oh three in his career. I love that as winning percentage all, he is almost the same in Denver as it was in New Orleans, Like you'll get a little bit of drama, but you're gonna get offense, and he's that.

00:27:37
Speaker 2: Dude he is.

00:27:39
Speaker 5: I really thought I was gonna be able to steal him in this draft because people seem to be lower on him just because of the curmudgeon league whatever you would describe it overall.

00:27:46
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:27:47
Speaker 5: Yeah. But the thing I think this separates him from all the other kind of offensive gurus, particularly in his era, is his deep commitment and obsession with past protection in a way that those kind of I mean, he's known as the deep vertical passing game guy because of those seeds offense. No one is as obsessive with changing the protection plan week to week, which in an era that we're playing in with all the mug do blitzers and all the different pressures, like it is the force multiplied to their offense that I just don't think of the people have that kind of advance to the Shannahan guys have a very slim number of protections. That's why the McDonald defenses gets after those guys. They've figured out ways to break down their protection plan. You can't break this guy down. You slap Louke Wattenberg in as a guy no one's ever heard of before. All of a sudden, you have the best offensive line in the NFL because the protection plans are so advanced and so ahead of everyone else. So if you dropped on any team next season, I think they would have the best setup to try and take on these great defenses in the NFL because he just thinks about it in a different way and is willing to put everything on the menu. And it's why he's able to maximize even quarterbacks who have some limitations.

00:28:44
Speaker 1: Hell, he can take Zach Streeth like an assistant coach from New Orleans and be like, I'm gonna pluck you, you a former player, put you in Denver, and we're gonna have the best offensive line in the league in the first time you've ever coached the offensive lines. It's pretty awesome. You are up with the ninth pick Olly, I'm.

00:29:00
Speaker 5: Gonna take Matt Lafleur. Now, it runs against my instincts. I like the defensive guys, I like the global head coach guys. But I still I will go to my football and grave thinking that the best two offenses I've ever seen that were very melodic and just beautiful symphonies with the twenty eleven Patriots and Matt laflow of Aaron Rodgers and Devonte Adams, And I still believe that guy is in that. Now. Does he butt heads with people on staff? Is the wiz stuff with the front office? Does he care about defense? I'm not sure. Does he care about special teams? I think he couldn't, you know, give to anything about special teams. But I cannot let him continue to fall when I think he can put together, at any phase of his career the best offense in the league at anytime.

00:29:40
Speaker 2: It's totally fair.

00:29:41
Speaker 1: Also, by the way, a winning percentage of six fifty four in his career or like an outrageous number the offensive efficiency numbers over the last six years six to fourth, twelfth, second, first, eighth, ninth, This board has gone almost too closely to my exact board, like he was almost next on my board, but next was actually Demiko, and that's more closely to your global thinking defense.

00:30:04
Speaker 2: I had him a I had Lafleur nine. They're right.

00:30:06
Speaker 1: There been a little mixed on his oc hires, but in terms of consistency, his ability to develop defensive players, also develop his staff identifying talent. I think he's a part of identifying the people the scheme. It just works. Second and third over the last two years. A guy that you really love, I think even more than some of the guys ahead of him here representing your franchise at the podium, a guy that I think the entire building believes in wholeheartedly. And a guy Jordan I can just imagine holding up a Lombardi Trophy. So I want him to do it for me here at a pick. Where are we at ten?

00:30:41
Speaker 2: Pick ten?

00:30:42
Speaker 6: Yes, he was actually above Dan Campbell on my board this year, still in that very high tier one of coaches.

00:30:52
Speaker 4: Really really strong team identity and culture.

00:30:55
Speaker 6: His defense, I know, defense is simple at an NFL level, but relatively speaking, is straightforward. Everybody in the league seems to know its rules and they still cannot stop it. And he understands the exact types of players that he wants to bring it to.

00:31:10
Speaker 4: Life, and they would run through a wall for him.

00:31:12
Speaker 6: They would lay on train tracks, form whatever he needs them to do, he would do it, and he can teach it.

00:31:17
Speaker 4: He can teach it to his coaches.

00:31:19
Speaker 6: He also does not have an ego about who the play caller is. Matt Burke called their defense last year, and he was able to retain his coordinators. I just think he's people want to coach for him, people want to play for him.

00:31:32
Speaker 4: I think he is as strong a coach as there is.

00:31:34
Speaker 6: In the NFL right now, and certainly deserves to be in our top ten.

00:31:38
Speaker 1: I mean literally, yeah, he might be the strongest. So that's important too.

00:31:41
Speaker 2: Alli. This one hurt you taking this up.

00:31:43
Speaker 5: If this one really, I can't believe I didn't take you.

00:31:46
Speaker 2: We're on the same team.

00:31:47
Speaker 1: So ultimately, he should be happy when we put out the graphick. You know, when we put out the graphic, he'll be nice and he'll be nice and high. He was ninth, by the way last year, so very consistent.

00:31:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, but him not being into my column, that's not that's going to pay me for weeks. The thing that I think is really exciting about Demico moving forward, I think the defensive style they run with Jordan suggested is it is simplistic in nature. It's been the same since the Niners days. There has to be some evolution to count to what's coming here from the offensive side of the ball. And when you see someone like Robert Salad, who's a really good defensive coach that built in a similar mold in terms of style, he's not showing the penshon for about evolution the way that Demiko is. And I thought the Kaden McDonald's selection was really indictive of them recognizing our style is awesome. We play with all pro players on every single level. We get after every single down, but we have to have some adaptability in our front when we come up against certain game plans. So I think he's showing that he is willing to evolve and adapt over time if they need to.

00:32:41
Speaker 4: You must have just been in France.

00:32:47
Speaker 5: Sally heavy would be the word I would use to describe it. So much cheese, so much wine, too many cigarettes, beautiful time Habi all ah that I'm jealous.

00:32:57
Speaker 1: I'm We've got to try to get there for the Saints game next year. Jordan, you are up with the next pick.

00:33:03
Speaker 4: Uh, this is tough one for me.

00:33:06
Speaker 6: I'm still in my in my tier one, but I've entered what I kind of eleven. Well, yeah, it's like ten twelve people, that's most most first round boards are ten twelve players. You know, God like learn about scouting, Greg. So I I really have what I call a gray area here where it's incredibly talented coaches. And I had two of them in this bucket, still in my top coaching uh ranking, but where I know what they are and I know what they're capable of, and they have an incredible resume and you know that they would be successful. You also don't know really who you would hire over them were you to part if you were to part ways with them, but they just haven't reached that next step forward. And I actually had Matt Lafleur in this bucket even though he was extremely high on my rankings. But I also have Kevin O'Connell in bucket as well, and I think I'm going to pick him here. Kevin O'Connell, what is this pick ten, pick eleven, And it's it's the combination of I know what his potential can be. I think he has you know, showed that he can be flexible with a wide range of talent that he has in his building at quarterback, but less so even than the quarterback, which frankly, we still do have to see proof that he can develop one from the ground up. I think that his hiring is is really highly highly competent. I think that pivoting after that first year where it didn't work out with their defensive coordinator and then pivoting to Brian Flores was an ego less higher because if you bring Brian Flores into your building, he is going to be better than you at He's going to be better at defense than you are at anything else in your entire life. Like he's just and he and he also you have to understand how to like explain him to the rest of your organization in terms of let him go off into his office with his with his key pl who's going to set the game game plan in and as coach and let him cook and then you run the rest of the show and it never is bumpy. And that's super super rare to do in an ecosystem like that. He's taking on more of a leadership role or more power, and in front office it seemed like that's something that he has wanted for a couple of years. So I'm interested to see how this goes. I would like to see him take another step forward, and I'm buying on the potential there. So he is my pick at this.

00:35:27
Speaker 2: Pickpoint forty three and twenty five.

00:35:30
Speaker 1: He's definitely got the juice in the building, and that's without amazing quarterbacks. A little blind to the running game, I think as an offensive guys is a knock for him. But he was my next guy, and we've almost picked off my board exactly in order. George rather Ali, you are up next with the twelfth pick.

00:35:48
Speaker 5: I'm going to take Mike Vrabel. How confident albe that he's a head coach, He's available to be taken in the spell.

00:35:55
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to take him.

00:35:56
Speaker 1: He's definitely an awkward person to talk about out right now, and I agree, like you can't say with one hundred percent confidence that he's the coach of the Patriots in twenty twenty six, but I would think that he.

00:36:09
Speaker 5: Is as a coach turned around, a complete mess. Everywhere he goes. It is built to one very clear image. It's in that Dan Campbell Vane. I think we've seen it in two different spots, and I just have we talked about staff assembly with him. He showed a ego, a streak to go and bring Josh McDaniels back, And I don't think that was a frictionless relationship. I don't think it will continue to be.

00:36:32
Speaker 1: A I don't know if that was totally his choice either though, but you never know.

00:36:36
Speaker 5: You know, no, but being willing to acquiesced during negotiations, he had a huge amount of cachet going into those negotiations. The Patriots wanted him desperately. He had a pick of teams he could have at least flirted with to up the ante there, and was willing to say it's probably the right thing for Drake may even though it's not my ideal to bring Josh McDaniels in and to bring staff under Josh McDaniels, who with Josh's guys, which is going to build one side the building, which is like, not my guys. And I thought the Nick Kak thing. During the season, they obviously had the really difficult situation with Terrell Williams and the guy he picked out with someone who only a play calling experience at a D two college before he called plays in the NFL where he could have easily done the Dan Kempbell thing, which was when things are maybe not going the way you expect them to Enno that CEO style of coach. More of me is the answer. The offense doesn't look exactly what I think, it looks like, what's the answer, more of me. I'm gonna start calling the plays. And instead he empowered a thirty six year old coach to call defense and it led them to a Super Bowl.

00:37:30
Speaker 1: This is right where I had him, and I wasn't, you know, factoring in his personal issues right now really into the equation. He just hasn't shown to provide like a schematic advantage defensively over the course of his career. He did have those two poor seasons in a row in the Infighting and Tennessee, and that just knocked him like slightly below the rest of the great coaches. But like I said, the fact that we have Liam Cohen on the board still in some other good ones this late, I think is a is a testament to how good but the coaching is in the NFL right now. Like the only reason to me he wouldn't be higher is just you just want to see it a little more. How does he handle the adversity, how does he handle the relationship with the GM He runs a little hot, so when things go against him in terms of a schematic advantage and coming in and having a vision and making it happen right away, I think you can argue he was as impressive as Ben Johnson. I know, Ali, you would have had him very high going into last year, and he really lived up to that billing and that I think if all else fails, the first thing I'm looking for is just a great offensive play caller, and I do think he's going to have real staying power as a coach in this league.

00:38:40
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think for as long as he's coaching the league, he'll be won. The five best schematic designers and sequential play calls around. I think it's already McVeigh rey, China and Cohen and Johnson. I think those just the five guys. As a cliss separation, he is a little bit different, I think than Ben Johnson to me in terms of the overall building stuff, the interpersonal management. I do worry how that sustains of a multiple seasons, But this is just for a one year exercise. I would like to have one of the five best offensive play calls as the floor of what we're doing is.

00:39:10
Speaker 6: He's already showed a knack for hiring too. That was a big quality in my putting guys in different tiers on my board. High tier guys can hire, and he is one of them. He took a chance on hiring two and experienced coordinators on offense and defense. And obviously the offensive coordinator doesn't do a ton, but I think it's unsaid or undersaid how much an offensive coordinator for a play calling head coach takes off of the plate of that play calling head coach throughout the course of a week as they're setting the plan. And the defensive coordinator too, and it worked out super well, and just knowing a little bit about what the process this offseason was, just worked so hard to retain them too, and really, you know, understood the importance of that and how crucial that would be to have that continuity into his second year as a head coach. I think that showing a knack for higher in this way bodes well for him over the long term because he will start losing his people for sure.

00:40:06
Speaker 1: And another NFL Daily guest this time at the Super Bowl, making the rounds and just you know, very friendly talking to everyone before and afterwards. You get a little bonus.

00:40:16
Speaker 4: Oh, he loves the life. He loves this life. You could tell me.

00:40:20
Speaker 1: I'm a little I'm a little almost surprised concern that the hive mind here.

00:40:24
Speaker 2: My top thirteen on.

00:40:25
Speaker 1: The board are all off after the first thirteen picks, almost in order. You are up Jordan with the fourteenth overall pick.

00:40:33
Speaker 6: Yes, all of my Tier one guys are gone except for one. And this is where I might throw a little bit of a curveball at you guys, because I'm going with Brian Schottenheimer here, and I know so okay, first and foremost, I like his offense. Their record is what it is last season, but I really like his offense. It's clean, it's explosive. That quarterback clearly understands it can make it sing. He really did well to bring in Clayton Adams. This is an intentional thing that smart coaches do when they go and they hire John Payton just did it was Zack Streef. When they go and they hire like one of the best offensive line coaches you can hire, make him your offensive coordinator. And understand that the vultures will not be sniffing around that guy for a couple of cycles because he has specifically that offensive line background and not say a quarterback background. So it's very, very smart what he did there. He hired He went out and hired to me one of the best young defensive minds in the game right now in Christian Parker, to continue to shape their defense. He pivoted off of Matt Eberfluss. He brought him in because he did need a voice in the room. Brian Schottenheimer has the sort of, like I say this respectfully, like the NEPO pedigree that he does have. And yet he still was egoless enough to understand he was not going to by by any means, no at all, he was going to need to delegate to somebody. It did not go well for them in terms of the quality of their defense during that time. But also he pivoted very quickly once he understood I've got the level set here as a head coach of what I need and I was able to install my offense and get it off the ground.

00:42:05
Speaker 4: And frankly, I give him.

00:42:06
Speaker 6: Huge points for being in this job, which is the most unique job. I think in the NFL because of the personalities in your front office and an ownership and managing it really well, like being able to just surfit in a very interesting way where you are totally unbothered by it and yet you're still getting your work done and you're getting stuff done and you're making progress. So I think he is going into your two I'm super high on him. I'm buying into potential here, and I think he is going to continue to be one of the better coaches in the league.

00:42:37
Speaker 1: He might be top five in terms of can handle the Cowboys job of people on this list, which is it landed great for him. I think he's got the Jews. I think he's got ideas. I think he's got emotional intelligence. I said it before he even coached the game. I thought he'd be a better head coach than he necessarily was, like a coordinator. A little maybe if he has strength like a John Harbaugh, but like the early version of John Harbaugh, and so I don't think that's a reach at all. I had him sixteenth, you took him fourteenth. I think there was a bit of a tiered break, at least for me. After after Cohen and I like Schottenheimer there. I'm very curious where Ali is gonna go with this next one.

00:43:15
Speaker 5: Before I make the thing, I gotta say, it's getting a little insulting for Nick Sirianni. I completely understand why I have not taken him myself. He has coached two teams to the Super Bowl. I'm gonna taking Brian shot and Heimer ahead of him. I just want to, like, but my pig to double down the year.

00:43:30
Speaker 4: I'm going for the guy who did this.

00:43:33
Speaker 5: I'm gonna take Jesse minto the head coach of the Ravens.

00:43:36
Speaker 6: Our first first year head coach is now off the board.

00:43:40
Speaker 1: Yes, unlike last year, we wanted to make first year head coaches eligible.

00:43:43
Speaker 2: Why not?

00:43:44
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, he would have been my next guy. I mean, what do you think versus him, him and McDonald in terms of being kind of the vanguards of defensive coaches right now?

00:43:55
Speaker 2: OLLI?

00:43:55
Speaker 5: The thing I think Jesse Mint is a special defensive coach. I have no idea how he's going to handle the pressure. You lose three in a row, Lamar hurtz his toe something like that. I don't know if he's got those kind of chops. But as a defensive mind, I think he's operating on a different level. And if you even go back to Michigan, he instituted stuff that was not schematic. So the schematic is usually the focus, but in terms of how they actually practiced, what they would do during the work week to be able to enact the scheme on Saturdays. Mike McDonald came back and took that stuff, then took that stuff to Seattle. So the guy who's considered the best in the business when it said, this guy's doing stuff better than me, I'm gonna go take what he's doing. And there's a real bella Chicken flavor I think to how he operates, not in terms of how he comes across and the charisma levels I would say, but he did things as basically as everyone has all the coaching cliches, what they're looking for, what they're trying to run. And he went the step further of saying, if I'm going to teach block destruction, if I'm going to teach obnoxious communication, why didn't I have a block destruction expert and specialist who goes room by a room teaching that stuff to our players, rather than just handing it off to the position coaches where they could be some kind of miscommunication might not all be a line. And so I think you just see both at Michigan with the chudge, and I think we'll see it again with the Ravens just being so fundamentally sound, which then gives you the base to do all the fun creative stuff in the scheme game. So I just think that the way he ran that building at Michigan reminded me of when Belichick was first in New England, and he would do things like bringing the offensive staff in to talk to the defensive plays. Here's what we've seen in your game watching film, here's how we attack you. It's just a different level of scope and thinking than just being this kind of defensive mastermind who can game plan really well. I think that speaks to someone who can go in there and run an entire building.

00:45:33
Speaker 2: I believe.

00:45:34
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that when he was in the Ravens building, they didn't necessarily see him that way. And so because it's so connected, I'm just going to take my next pick, which is sixteenth. It is the guy who was, you know, once his boss, John Harbaugh. It's partly that I'm just afraid of him. That if he falls any lower, then John Harbaugh will come go after me sixty three years old. And it's only a second spot. I'm always wary of the guy at their third spot, like he's still gonna be able to do it, but it is a second spot, but he was there so long and almost it feels like a third spot. I do think Ali, you've talked about this, that you know he's offering a little bit more in the defensive meeting rooms, then people really understand. And I do think kind of like a Sean Payton and a Harbaugh, like Jim Harbaugh, that he can take what has been one of the worst franchises in the league, the Giants, for a decade, and completely change it from the ground up, and that is worth a lot. So I think him following any further would be would be wrong.

00:46:36
Speaker 5: I do think his best skill set, from what I understand, is asking why if the coaches all the time they have all these ideas, why would we do that? And just being able to synthesize and limits of It's fun to have the most expensive playbook in the league, but if you're doing it for no reason or it's just that to be ego coaching. I do think he strips the ego out of a lot of coaches. And when you see all the Wonderkin coaches he had come through that he would send to his brother a Michigan and they would come back up to baltim Well, you can see the difference in what Minta was doing and what McDonald was doing at Michigan. To now it's not as expensive, it's not quite as creative, but it's beta what team just want a Super Bowl one of the best defenses we've seen in the past decade. I think Hullball as a real great build to go through staff meeting by staff meeting to get the most out of his coaching stuff.

00:47:17
Speaker 6: Have we talked enough about kind of how Shakespearean the mentor arc is, honestly, because he was clearly somebody that John Harbaugh was training essentially and wanted him to be one of these Mike McDonald like legacy guys and all of that. But the second that he goes with Jim Harbaugh and then has the springboard to becoming a head coach who then replaces John Harbaugh, you know, it's like Jedi master kind of stuff here and protege stuff that I wonder what happened along the way, like the slight twist in the path that he was traveling that led him to now sort of supplant his former mentor. I'm curious, I would I'd love to do that story.

00:48:00
Speaker 2: Actually, it is all delicious.

00:48:03
Speaker 1: I love the like inter mingling of these coaching trees, and that's a unique one with the Brothers.

00:48:08
Speaker 2: We're halfway through.

00:48:10
Speaker 1: Eric suggests good idea to just kind of remind people who are still on the board. So in no particular order, we've got like Todd Bowles has been to some playoffs, Mike McCarthy has not been taken, Change stich In, Kevin Stefanski, Zach Taylor, all the new coaches except for Jesse Minner. In terms of the first time coaches, Sirianni, it has been mentioned, has not been taken. And yeah, if we look back at last year's drafted, now as good a time as any you could put that on the board. Mike Tomlin was taking tenth, no longer in the league. Sean McDermott was twelfth. That's our highest guy that got fired. Pete Carroll looks a little high in the light right now at thirteenth overall and in dan Quinn. And the biggest come up this year is definitely Mike McDonald going from nineteen to the very man. He was a little underrated there last year, so that was our draft. Last year. We're at We're at seventeenth overall. It's the pick of Jordan Rodrigue. Who are you taking off.

00:49:13
Speaker 2: This big board.

00:49:14
Speaker 4: I'm taking Shane Steikin.

00:49:16
Speaker 6: I think that he does give a team an advantage on offense. I think he has a very interesting relatability with the quarterback. He also sounds just like Philip Rivers when he coaches and when he talks. So I don't know if anyone's got a chance to hear him on like the micd ups or anything like that, but you should go listen because it's really strange how alike that they sound. But I think that even though he's a bit of a different personality, and I spent some time there this last season in Indianapolis and really started to understand like what people meant by that and and just unique creative, I think that now with a little bit more of an exhale of that security because even if the sisters were gonna part ways with Chris Ballard this year.

00:50:05
Speaker 4: I believe they were always going to keep Shane Steikeen.

00:50:07
Speaker 6: I think that he is somebody who they believe they can really build a new era of their franchise and their culture with and around, and a lot of that is the connectivity to the quarterback. I think he can reach a range of style of quarterback. Now, obviously he clearly has styles that he prefers, but I do think that he can he can develop and really get the most out of a player, and I really like the layers that he develops.

00:50:30
Speaker 4: In his passing game.

00:50:31
Speaker 6: I kind of have yet to see long term proof of a lot of the other things that we've spoken about here with our top coaches, a knack for hiring you over year, people chasing and copying his stuff. I sort of think though, that this season is when you start to see a little bit more of the Shane Steikeen that he wants to be emerged.

00:50:51
Speaker 4: And so again I'm sort of drafting off potential here.

00:50:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, if he has a healthy enough quarterback, he was the next on my lists two Again, it's like the seventeen or the same he is betting on, Like taking.

00:51:01
Speaker 2: Him now is is betting on.

00:51:03
Speaker 1: What I think a lot of people in the league believe is like, this guy's got it twenty five and twenty six with very shaky quarterback play. But the communication maybe with the media, maybe in terms of with his players, I don't know, feels a little odd. Sometimes I do think he's a he's a good shape shifter, though in terms of like needing to do what's required.

00:51:23
Speaker 6: I'll tell you the guy that you see on the post see I went. I went in there, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to sit down with this guy and like I'll be the one talking for most of it, like you you know, and you kind of prepare yourself.

00:51:35
Speaker 4: Could not have been more opposite.

00:51:37
Speaker 6: Animated, detailed, lively, tons of character, just a big personality, really total ball nerd like. And I was like, and I talked to the local beat writers there who do a great job on that beat down there in Indianapolis, and they're like, yeah, he does off podium sessions like quite frequently, and this is this is not the same guy on the podium is off the podium. So it's really interesting that the jextaposition. But I was glad that I got to see like what he kind of really is about.

00:52:06
Speaker 2: I actually think that's like a slight knock.

00:52:08
Speaker 1: Not the biggest thing in the world, But I think if you're running a team like you want a coach that can be comfortable to represent, you know, the franchise in front of the podium, like just like a slight knock, What does that indicate they can't just be a little bit more yourself all the time.

00:52:22
Speaker 2: But it's also where I had.

00:52:23
Speaker 5: Him here, I would say on him though, he might be if you pull the coach in the league, which Jordan should also do for a story, he might be when they get the Monday cut up of the explosive play reel which all these guys like to watch on Monday, the one they all go to to pinch from, yes, is Shane Steichen That just the one off designs. He is absolutely messful at that. And I think I mean Cliff kingsystole his run game from Philadelphia whole cloth in Washington. Clayton Adams, who I think we all really admire, he stole that thing whole cloth for the Cowboys last season, So I do think he's got a way higher reputation just the offensive mind. His just kind of like media Briggadocia stuff isn't on the scale of someone like Kyle shanahow Yes, that.

00:53:00
Speaker 1: Was my number one note for him was like the league believes in him. I think people like he would if he did if he had lost his job. It's a little bit of a cliche, but he's like that other insider say, but he would have been hired right away, and I think there would have been a lot of competition for him.

00:53:14
Speaker 2: A right, you're up Ali for number eighteen.

00:53:17
Speaker 5: Well, I'm gonna have to begrudgingly take Nick Sirianni at this point.

00:53:20
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for just doing that to reduce the amount of hate that we're gonna get.

00:53:25
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Do what are Eagles fans mad for ranking him low?

00:53:29
Speaker 5: I don't know, maybe not. I mean, we gotta see what it looks like, yeah, just mad. Generally, we got to see what the run game looks like without Jeff Stoutland. I have no idea how much impact and influence he has on that offense. Yet whenever they tried to change it, they pull away from it after five six weeks. Every single time, even when they install new stuff, they back away after three weeks. How much is the quota back, how much is the head coach, how much is the OC. But he has nailed some highs. They do win a whole bunch of games. And I'm running out of a stuff to say. If I was running a franchise, he would not be on my list to high I think I could find many. That's what this exercise is.

00:54:06
Speaker 2: Ali.

00:54:07
Speaker 5: He also has the best winning percentage of any active head coach in the league, and he's not been doing this for two seasons, and he's meets two Super Bowls, So I at some point he's got to go.

00:54:16
Speaker 1: Off the bullet I had to have to admit I had him twenty third on my list, even lower.

00:54:21
Speaker 6: I think, and I'll help you out here on this one, Ollie, because I do think you touched on something that is so, so so important. With some of these guys, they're not going to be the right fit for every franchise. Man has this guy been the perfect fit for this specific franchise.

00:54:37
Speaker 4: I am higher on him in general.

00:54:39
Speaker 6: Obviously I didn't pick him because I value certain traits and qualities over the coaches that I did pick over over Nick Sirianni per Se. But I have to say of probably almost any coach in the entire NFL. The difficulty of going into that building which is already set up very Game of Thrones esque, very like you know, scratch fight to get to the right hand or the and the left hand of the GM, like all of these things, highly highly competitive atmosphere. It does leak into and trickle into the locker room in a way where players also feel it. But a lot of the players that has gotten the best out of them. You need a coach with the very specific personality to be a lot of things at once and be sort of a shape shifter just as a leader to reach all of those different dynamics that are happening. The fact that they have been as successful as they have been a lot of it's obviously the talent, and the players are super super talented.

00:55:38
Speaker 4: Howie Roseman brings in great.

00:55:40
Speaker 6: Players, but also to get the best out of many of them, most of them, has taken really really good interpersonal coaching, and where I don't necessarily see him give a scheme advantage or a situational advantage, the interpersonal coaching that he can do I think is really excellent. And so that's why I've always been higher on him that I think the maybe the national conversation has been because you have to be in the right market for that to work. And I think he is the perfect fit for team and franchise organization, the ecosystem that he's in, and.

00:56:14
Speaker 4: That's you know, I like him for that.

00:56:16
Speaker 6: I wouldn't necessarily pluck him out and place him just on any team.

00:56:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think very similar to our conversation with Schottenheimer and the Cowboys, that that is a very specific job. I think that is one of the most specific jobs that you would need a certain skill set. But I do think part of his issue is just pr how he presents himself to his team, to the media, which is which is part of it, and how his team frankly presents the coaching position in general.

00:56:43
Speaker 2: That they a little bit devalue it.

00:56:45
Speaker 1: They make him look bad in a way, but that's that's part of being a coach. Also is how you are presenting. And we can say all the nice things about him, he still fell out of the top half of this draft. So we spoke loudest with our drafting a let's take a quick break. I'm going to actually take a coach from another very specific job that I'm not so sure it's going to be a perfect fit, but we'll find out.

00:57:07
Speaker 2: In the dim.

00:57:18
Speaker 1: Back at the NFL Daily All he suggested, you know, he wishes we were just doing this over some drinks.

00:57:24
Speaker 2: Which it's the off season.

00:57:27
Speaker 1: You know, if we tape this, these are going to run on Fridays primarily.

00:57:30
Speaker 2: You know, we could do like a Thursday evening. You know, we could add that to the mix.

00:57:34
Speaker 4: Can I interest you in some bowe broth?

00:57:36
Speaker 2: Yes, the old water here.

00:57:39
Speaker 1: I'm taking Mike McCarthy next, And I mentioned a very specific job.

00:57:44
Speaker 2: That's the Steelers job.

00:57:45
Speaker 1: I think in a different way, but similar to the Eagles and Cowboys conversations, I think to succeed there.

00:57:53
Speaker 2: And that doesn't even include the Aaron Rodgers of it all.

00:57:55
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, organizationally, it's going to take a certain sort of coach. By the way, as we're taping this, Aaron Rodgers is coming to Pittsburgh this weekend, and it is expected that he's gonna be on the Steelers this season. Presumably he'll sign his contract this weekend. The funniest part of that news, though, is Mark Coboli who knows his Steelers said the Steelers were unaware that he was coming to town. He was, he just decided to come and the media found out before they did. So that's amazing, and it's really amazing if Mike McCarthy is coaching Aaron Rodgers again in the year twenty twenty six. I'm worried about third stop guys ali and whether he's still got it. He seems a little too surprised to be the head coach. But I do think just technically he can coach quarterbacks, he can coach offense, and if and I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, that's why he's falling down here to what the nineteenth pick. But if you only looked at his record in playoffs, for what it's worth, it's identical to Sean Payton, and it's like, yeah, it's Sean mcvay's winning percentage or whatever, but over twice the amount of time. And so that does count a little bit for me that I think the floor of how he coaches up offense technically will be relatively high, and so I feel okay McCarthy here at night.

00:59:12
Speaker 5: I've always been confused why Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton aren't booked it together, and one gets a degree of props where draft picks are traded and teams are going to fire their sitting at coach go get one and the other one gets national conversation like he's some kind of bumbling fool who was held up by iron rodgers throughout his time in Green Bay. He's a true offensive pioneer who never gets any of that credit. It was a synthesis of his design with the talent, the high watt his talent of Rogers together that made them go for so long until it started to fall off towards the end. I am deeply concerned about him just being out of ideas. I'm so concerned about that. I thought in Dallas he showed it looked nothing like it looked in Green Bay. And some of that was just Dak was running the whole show himself. He did seem too much like he couldn't believe he won a prize when he got the Stealers job, and he's I could regret this will He be in there four in the morning, grinding the coastal Carolina tape, looking for new fresh ideas to bring with Aaron Rodgissel. Well, the two guys just pulled up the kudobrail from twenty twelve and say it wasn't that a good time? Why don't we try and replicate it.

01:00:12
Speaker 6: I like what you mentioned about the perception of Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton. Just stay with me here, guys, because I'm gonna sound insane for a second.

01:00:21
Speaker 2: There.

01:00:21
Speaker 6: I've been going through because I've been listening to Amy Poler's Good Hang podcast a lot. She tells a lot of stories about SNL and times there, and so I went back. I've been going back and like just reading more and listening more about some of the stories from all the the like very very bygone eras of the of that show. And there was something that I stumbled across one time, and I would love to cide it. I just can't remember where I saw it, but it was basically like Chris Farley thinking that he because he was, you know, kind of this presence and you know, fill the door away and like all this stuff had to go into physical comedy or felt like he was getting more tension for physical comedy when maybe there could have been like some really good stand up or there could have been, you know, those those types of things, and I don't want to like overgeneralize what I read. I just it's stuck with me, and I'm like, maybe maybe it's us, Maybe we're.

01:01:10
Speaker 4: The problem, you know.

01:01:11
Speaker 6: Mike McCarthy has always been known as a two people that who have worked for him as a really great infrastructure guy, like will set an infrastructure for a organization. Never has gotten credit like he should have for some of the things that he built in Dallas, including their analytics department, the new phase of their analytics department, including building out their situational management program. We laughed about it when he was like on his analytics tour or whatever in his basement, but like really did make make key hires and set up infrastructure for them to modernize that franchise in a way that I don't think he ever got credit for.

01:01:49
Speaker 4: And that was part of the reason I was.

01:01:51
Speaker 6: So confused as to why he went to Pittsburgh, because they they have made it quite clear they're just fine with their infrastructure, whether it's my or not. They don't care. They are keeping it the way that it is. And so that the higher and the person are incongruous to me. I would have loved to see him like in Tennessee for example. But at the same time, like, I can't hate this pick at all because I always overvalue Mike McCarthy. I think that he's got he's got levels to him that we just have societally.

01:02:21
Speaker 4: I think ignored a little bit.

01:02:23
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to do like a body comparison with him and Chris Farley.

01:02:26
Speaker 6: They just don't know, just being pigeonholed, like a perception of you getting like pigeonholed into a certain narrative because you maybe don't look like all the little capri wearing coaches on the sideline or whatever, you know what I mean. Like I just I know I sound insane, but it does.

01:02:41
Speaker 5: It makes totally true when you write the history of schematic evolution of football, which Jordan will do. I'm sure I write the great book on it eventually. You cannot do that without Mike McCarthy and how he transformed the deep passing game with Aaron Rodgers and which became the Andy Reid Kansas City Chiefs offense effectively, and he never gets any credit for that. It bounces from the Shanna ans on de Gruden back down to McVeigh, like that's how people talk about the story of modern offensive football and second phase offense, second reaction offense and not having a design element to it rather than it just being a scrambled rill while you figure it out and having some degree sequencing and timing to it came from the brain of Mike McCarthy and he gets zero credit for it.

01:03:20
Speaker 2: And I think part of.

01:03:21
Speaker 1: It is that when he was the Ben Johnson of his era in New Orleans, and I remember that very well. You know, all the people that were covering that as like he was the hot shot offensive mind, Like they're no longer covering the league anymore. You know, it's like it's just the age has forgotten.

01:03:37
Speaker 4: Time comes for us all.

01:03:39
Speaker 5: I do think on the third around, I think I do believe the coaches, Pete, we have a tendency a place to talk about them having up and down phases of their career, whereas the coach is just kind of they stay static as they're good, and then maybe at the very end we say, oh, they might have lost their fastball. I do just feel like he peaked with the absolutely perfect infrastructure in personnel with Green Bay for what his ideas were at that time, and that that would just be my concern he's not quite going to keep up with what agree I stuck to my.

01:04:02
Speaker 1: Board there at nineteenth, but now in my gut seeing some of the other options still on the board, I don't feel amazing about it. Let's let's pick it up a little bit as we hit the home stretch here number twenty.

01:04:14
Speaker 6: You got to be at ali On You knew you were going to get some long speech about some like dinosaur coach. Yeah, I'm this is again going to be a bit controversial, I think, But I'm putting Todd Bowles here, and I know that he's been the same guy that he has been.

01:04:29
Speaker 4: I understand that.

01:04:30
Speaker 6: But in terms of a consistency that you want in your franchise, I think Todd Bowles has that quality. Is one of the most consistent coaches, for better and for worse, that you could possibly have, and he's proven it. I think that as long as he can continue to churn out above average or decent offensive coordinators and find those guys, his teams have a chance.

01:04:56
Speaker 4: And he's an example of.

01:04:57
Speaker 6: A great partnership with the front office, which weighed very heavily for me and where I decided to put guys on my board. He is certainly a tier two guy on my big board. But I think he gets knocked for being predictable, and I think a lot of that's very fair.

01:05:13
Speaker 4: But you hear, and.

01:05:14
Speaker 6: We've talked about him a lot, but you hear these Shanahan Tree guys talk about what it is like to go up against his defense for an entire game. It is the most exhausting, annoying, frustrating thing for these guys to go against a Todd Bowles. And they bested him quite a bit. Like I don't want listeners to be mistaken here. They have bested his defense quite a bit, but they hate going up against it. It wears on them. It takes such a toll on them. And I like a coach that does still give you an advantage even if he's gotten a little bit predictable.

01:05:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if you needed a guy for one game to make a defensive game plan, he's a good candidate for that. Look, he has a winning record there. He's done very well hiring offensive staff. Now I give some credit there to Jason Light like that's a partnership in terms of how they're hiring, but he's part of that, and so I think it's right where I would have slided him. I like that, perfect Ali, you're up with twenty one.

01:06:08
Speaker 5: I'll take Keller Moore the Saints.

01:06:10
Speaker 2: I guess that's a little bit of a surprise. I like this.

01:06:14
Speaker 5: I was flat out wrong about Kella More as a head coach. I really thought he was one of the peak ego coaches of this modern generation, where it's all about the plays and it doesn't matter if they tied together. It's just look, how fancy my designs are. I'm a whiteboard coach. How does it actually operate on Sundays? I thought part of the Eagles offense when he ran it actually looked like that, even though they were really effective, it was just all about him flooding the zone with ideas rather than how it all came together as a whole. I thought it was completely different when he was actually running the entire building. I think going and giving another chance to Brandon Staley was a really smart move. He filled out the staff with a whole bunch of talent, and so I just was completely wrong about a person who felt more in the book of just offensive wisked when you get into the big boy chair and you've got a book flight and the guy's annoyed because the hotel room is too small that he would just fall apart with all that stuff. And I just think he's proven to be so much more than.

01:07:02
Speaker 2: That surprise pick.

01:07:03
Speaker 1: Not great in front of a podium, But the more I watched went Back and what I mentioned a couple of times watching Shuck, I was like, man, did Kellen Moore do a good job setting up Chuck for success? And I think really came into his own late last year. So that's it's a surprising pick, but.

01:07:18
Speaker 2: I like it.

01:07:19
Speaker 1: I thought I had Kellen Moore maybe higher than consensus, but you had him even higher than me.

01:07:24
Speaker 2: I'm up with Dan.

01:07:25
Speaker 4: Whatever he says, it sounds like an insult, just mildly.

01:07:29
Speaker 5: Mild.

01:07:30
Speaker 2: I mean, Kellen Moore, you did it. You got into the top.

01:07:36
Speaker 5: The rankings back up next year, as you had Mike McDonald nineteenth the year ago. I could have let you know that you would.

01:07:40
Speaker 2: Have been that.

01:07:41
Speaker 4: I think that, yeah, I have some questions about your rankings.

01:07:44
Speaker 1: Well you know that's it's that's why it's a group effort. It was me and JP going been back and forth.

01:07:48
Speaker 4: I would immediately you throw someone else under the bus.

01:07:51
Speaker 1: What a host you gotta We're all responsible, and I'm going to take dan Quinn next. The lows defensively have been too low. The advance are you know what he can bring to the entire building. The highs have been quite high. I think he knows the league really well. Does he have a defensive philosophy that he's going to stick to forever? Like not necessarily now he's trying to adapt. I think the Deonte Jones higher was a good one, and like, if it's my team for one year, I do feel like dan Quinn can provide a level of overall competence that I feel better about than anyone else that's still on the board here.

01:08:32
Speaker 4: I like it. I like it. He was a Tier three guy for me. Was he let me check, Yes he was.

01:08:42
Speaker 6: And I do think that, you know, players want to play for him, coaches want to work for him. Those are always really, really good qualities to have in your coach. I like that he's a little easing off of his control a little bit over the defensive side. Now, I don't know how long that will stick. Whenever head coaches feel the pressure they tend to try to take more control, and I definitely believe that this is a year where he would be feeling some of that job pressure. But I've always liked the dan Quinn defenses and the teams. They are reminiscent of a bygone era, you know, and I really appreciate that, you know, a little history happening right in front of us.

01:09:20
Speaker 1: And yeah, he was fourteenth on this list, by the way, a year ago, so a little bit of a fall. Here we are at what that was twenty two, So you're up at twenty three, Jordan.

01:09:29
Speaker 6: This is difficult for me because I do have somebody still in Tier two that has.

01:09:35
Speaker 4: Not been picked yet.

01:09:36
Speaker 2: We got to take them, so I have to.

01:09:38
Speaker 4: Take BPA, right.

01:09:40
Speaker 6: But I also am wondering if Panthers fans will just think that I'm hedging and playing to them because they were really mad at us, Greg because we didn't put them as the one of the most improved offseason teams, which are they.

01:09:53
Speaker 2: Are mad at?

01:09:53
Speaker 4: They are?

01:09:54
Speaker 2: They are? They had great free agency signings, draft was solid.

01:09:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm gonna I am going to take Dave Canalis here, and actually Alie is to thank for some of that because Ollie, I listened to you talk about Dave Canalis and what they've done specifically with their empty sets in trying to help Bryce Young and trying to maximize Bryce Young. I think that is not necessarily a way that a coach wants to operate, especially in a world where play action and heavy personnel is maybe a market efficiency right now, and would you might want to set up layups like that versus make everything a bit harder. You do get your defense to declare their pressure very well when you're an empty so that's a part of it. And Bryce Young clearly loves to see the field that way, So I think that sort of variability and ability to evolve and change is really important. He's a culture fit. He has had this sort of radical positivity in that building. That's what he's all about being in that building. And I think, you know, if you're going to try to take a team and pull it into the future, into the modern version of what NFL teams should look like, then you do need a person who's like sort of relentlessly positive in that way. And I like how he works with the front office. He and Dan Morgan and Brent Tillis are a great triumvirate together.

01:11:16
Speaker 4: They all like working with each other.

01:11:18
Speaker 6: They've got this gotten this team and really started to turn it around.

01:11:21
Speaker 4: Over the last couple of years.

01:11:23
Speaker 6: I don't quite know long term if I buy it with the head coach, but I do like what they've tried to do at least to make life better for the quarterback. And they are zagging in a way that the rest of the league is not really doing.

01:11:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, they took over a two win team, then they won five, then they won eight.

01:11:41
Speaker 2: So that's good. When he talks, you believe him. He was on this show.

01:11:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of positives there for canals, but also it's around where I had him on my list.

01:11:50
Speaker 5: I also ad maya him joyed to mention he's living through this like real life tension of what he thinks football should look like. Then when he's actually asked to coach and put on the field because of the talent of his quota and so he just handed it off to Bradzick and said, that's your problem. Now I'm out of that will that's giving me sleepless nights. I can I can respect that we are at number twenty four Alley and this is where my board has just been wiped out. So now now we're throwing darts run the rough patch people. I'll take Kevin Stefanski, who I really really do believe deep down in my footballing soul, should have taken a year out and got on towed all the college campuses, should have tought every facility, he could have got to spend a month in Taiwan, whatever he needs to do to kind of refresh the batteries, refresh the juices. But he is fundamentally a really schemed sound coach. I would say, rather than being anything too special, I think he at least brings a flaw to you offensively, that it's not going to be a complete disaster by design. And if all the right pieces are there, then he can lift you maybe into being in that middle band tier of offense. And if Joe Flacco just goes in fuego for you know, a season out of nowhere, then you can raise the thing even high in that. And I did like that when he got to the Falcons, he kept Jeff Ulbriak on board, and I thought that was really small. It would be really easy of him to default to what he's always done before when he's been a head coach. Is very almost a complete inverse defensive style to what Olbrig did at least less season. We'll see how much that was Raheemarus. How much is Jeff Ulbrig Olbric actually ran the style of defense before he got to a lent that was more akin to what defense he has done for most Viska on the defensive side. So, I mean, just see what that kind of tension looks like and if they're going to maintain what it was last year. But I like that he kept Olbroock in the building.

01:13:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense.

01:13:28
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's definitely the lowest guy in the list that won two Coaches of the Year. I know he's Jordan's favorite coach solid, but I don't know. I'm going to go next at number twenty five. You know, the first thing I ask of these coaches is like do they bring something tangible to the table. And Robert Salad does in his one head coaching spot. You know, his last two complete years there, they had a top five defense in terms of efficiency with the Jets. There were a lot of issues with how he ran everything else, according you know, associated with that job. It's also a completely brutal job that you are fighting uphill. He might have inherited another one of those. I don't think it's going to be as tough as the Jets, but the Titans is a tough one. But I do believe in his ability, like a lesser Demico, ryans to coach up and reach his players and his defense and he brings something to the table, and that's that defense. And so I get why you get him in a room in Tennessee, why you would want to hire him, and why I do have some optimism that things can get better there.

01:14:31
Speaker 2: Jordan.

01:14:32
Speaker 4: He is a clear communicator.

01:14:34
Speaker 6: His scheme has identity, and like I mentioned, clarity, he knows how to develop talent, especially identify traits that he knows he can develop. He's done this for years. He's not afraid of a fight. Essentially, he will try to to take it to the coaches that he's coaching against, even in practice, and I think that bodes well for sort of the I'm very curious to see how this will go between Brian Dable and him, two massive personalities, obviously, and I'm not quite convinced it will work, but if it does, I think it will be very cool what those two can can sort of do by competing with each other every day. He isn't as afraid as I think some people have tagged him to be as to mix up his scheme. You know, he was never really in my mind at least he was of that Seattle system. He changed to playing more modern, like a lot more quarters in a secondary for example, when he came over to the Jets, being a little bit more modern with what he was trying to do with those defenses. And I'm very very interested to see what he does without the weight of the Jets on his shoulders. But some of that was self inflicted as well. So my question for him is can he avoid the unforced errors? Can he avoid the self inflicted burden that he could place on himself as.

01:15:56
Speaker 4: A head coach?

01:15:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that he's twenty on this list, I I don't know. I feel like there were more bad coaches back in the day, like at the bottom of this. That's pretty good for being twenty fifth on this hallowed list. Who do you have at twenty six?

01:16:11
Speaker 2: Jordan?

01:16:13
Speaker 4: This is difficult.

01:16:16
Speaker 2: It is getting I did have a little bit of a tear drop here.

01:16:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, myself as well. Let's see. Maybe maybe I'll go with another curveball here. I'm gonna go Todd Munkin, and let's go I think again some of this is the right guy is in the right market. Respectfully to Todd Munkin in my notes, I wrote tough old boot because he is somebody who is gonna be very direct the Browns. You know, it was interesting you heard some of this through the whispers around the coaching search and some of the intel around that head coaching search where they were looking for somebody to come in who was really going to be that type of presence, somebody who was very had a big a lot of personality, sort of a correction from their their previous head coach, and also who could give.

01:17:15
Speaker 4: Them a scheme advantage on offense.

01:17:17
Speaker 6: And I think some of that specifically is what might have led to Jim Schwartz situation, which is not great. I think you would have done really well to retain him. But Todd Munkin, he knows who he is, he knows what he's about. He is going to communicate the way he communicates. If it works, it could really really work. It could be especially in that in that market where they they're dying for like a tough brand of football on offense, and I think you have to be in the right market to bring him in. But I would bet on Todd munkin and I think if it works, it will really work.

01:17:50
Speaker 1: And he's succeeded in a variety of different type of situations where you can say he's bringing something to the table, like for instance, if the Ravens had just decided to hire Tod munk which they want, then like I'd be plenty confident about like the raven I wouldn't feel that much differently about them, maybe a little less certainly long term, but he is he is someone.

01:18:10
Speaker 2: The more I've sat with it, I agree with Jordan.

01:18:12
Speaker 4: I've I like his scheme too.

01:18:13
Speaker 1: I like the Todd Monkin higher for like what he's done offensively over the years.

01:18:17
Speaker 5: I would have loved the top monkey higher for a team who thought that they were had a really solid foundation, or they they should be a playoff team, and then it's going to be like a little push to try and maximize the talent already on the roster in a rebuilding situation. The ruthless honesty is wonderful pre draft and post draft and when you'll one and seven, you start play requests a trade and you're up there at the podium belittling everyone about how dumb they are, and it's bad football. I do think it has a tendency to just kind of become the Titanic by the second half of the season. So I think that's in play for Monkey. But I love the coach. I wish he had was given a better opportunity to show what a good head coach.

01:18:51
Speaker 2: I think he can be.

01:18:52
Speaker 6: It's always interesting to me, small sidebar when teams go through a hiring process and they almost psychological overcorrect to a previous maybe deficiency that they saw over time in a previous coach, Like I cannot think of more personality pole differences between a Todd Munkin who has you know, plenty of it, and Kevin Stefanski. So I think they wanted somebody who was less passive, and Todd Munkin is certainly not going to be passive, whether it's passive in his own scheme or within the building.

01:19:29
Speaker 4: It might go up in flames.

01:19:31
Speaker 6: But they almost psychologically corrected to this type of personality, which I always find very very interesting.

01:19:37
Speaker 1: All Right, we're getting toward the end here, Ali, you are up next.

01:19:46
Speaker 5: I'll take Joe Brady. Okay, good offensive architect. We'll see what it's like running the building. I got real reservations about that. I think he has matured slightly once the bullet stopped fly and you know you're leading first take because there was a sickening fourth quarter thing and you're making guys turn the T off TV off in the building. I worry about some of the slight immaturity when it really gets on top of him. There is I think such immense levels of pressure on Joe Brady this season, given that you're supplanting Sean mcdermy, who got blamed for everything going out the door, got blamed for multiple seasons with all of the articles and all of everything about mcdermom. Mcdermot's a bum. Mcdermot's a bum. They replace him now with the with wonderkin offensive mind. And he said all the right things, and I believe him when he says he wants it to be. He wants to be as dedicated to the defensive side of the balls. He does want to be to the offensive side of the ball. I look at what the Bills have done this offseason, and it gives me a real pause that he actually has any real say in how it's supposed to look when they open up in week one the season, and it's not just coming from the GM, and it's just a lot of pressure for a guy who I slightly worry about dealing with that level of pressure in his first go round as head coach. But he is a wonderful offensive architect, and at this stage of the draft, I'll take that skill.

01:21:01
Speaker 1: And he has an advantage that will help him possibly rising with this ranking that nobody else has.

01:21:06
Speaker 2: He gets the coach Josh Allen.

01:21:07
Speaker 1: I mean, if you gave any of these coaches Josh Allen, they're gonna look better in the light. That's true of my next pick at twenty eight. So we're right at the end of this board. Here, we're at twenty eight. Here's who's left, Aaron Glenn, Jeff Hafley. You just took Joe Brady, so the AFC East three of the bottom six or seven coaches here in the league. Mike Lafleur is left, and I am going to take.

01:21:35
Speaker 2: Zach Taylor.

01:21:36
Speaker 1: I didn't write any notes because I just assumed you guys would take him.

01:21:39
Speaker 6: I think subconsciously, I tried to set up my picks and my board to where you would be forced to take your favorite coach in the NFL.

01:21:48
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been overly hard on him, called him, you know, a coaching polo, whereas I'm wearing a polo right now. Although it does have like a nice zipper, I like this one. It's a little different, little flashy look like how much how much control?

01:22:03
Speaker 2: How much has he really influenced? I use this that a lot.

01:22:07
Speaker 1: That they're close to a five hundred team with Joe Burrow in the lineup over a three year period following you know, their their super Bowl run in the Championship game run since and that's it's deeply it's deeply disappointing. But I've I've seen worse coaches. I don't know, Like the question I kind of was like, all right, is this a situation where because of ownership, how the front office you know, scouts and how they build out the coaching staff, what Joe Burrow wants to do? Is this such a unique and difficult coaching job here that like Zach Taylor's actually managed it fairly well for the limitations. I obviously want to see a different coach with Joe Burrow. So that's my own self interest. I think part of the reason why he fell this far ali.

01:22:54
Speaker 5: This idea though, that we'll never go into a vol of the offense because that's not what Joe Burrow wants to do. He never wants to turn his back the defense. Well, that's coaching. I think Dan Campbell would be able to reach Joe Burrow and explain to him, why maybe we got to change some of the architecture of this thing to maximize you so you can go win an MVP, so we can go have a parade. It'd be nice to have a parade. Joe like, that's how you reach people in that spot of coaching, and he just doesn't have the cohoonists to get it done.

01:23:17
Speaker 2: So they were so close to a parade. It's crazy too, they were so close to that parade.

01:23:21
Speaker 4: I would say, it's such a great point.

01:23:24
Speaker 6: You know, our number one overall pick and Zach Taylor's former boss and mentor, convinced Matthew Stafford, who would prefer not to turn his back to the quarterback ever or back to the defense ever, and to slice and dice in true Gunslinger badass mode has got him running long boots that you just you your entire body tenses up, the entire it's like seven seconds it's happening because you're.

01:23:53
Speaker 4: Like, don't get hit, don't get hit, don't get hit.

01:23:55
Speaker 6: Got him, you know, skinnier, got him available to do the play action, got the cadence like it.

01:24:01
Speaker 4: It is coaching.

01:24:02
Speaker 6: And if you can do that with like a future Hall of Famer and somebody who's your age as he comes into your building, you can do that with Joe Burrow yep.

01:24:11
Speaker 1: And there's always a push and pull. Look, there was for Tom Brady when when he went to Tampa where he's mostly doing the pulling. There was with Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy at times, and certainly with the flour. But you're right, that is coaching and probably indicates why a guy who's obviously won a lot of games at the NFL level, Zach Taylor, falls this far. But surprise, surprise, I take him off the board. We're at pick twenty nine. Jordan, you're up.

01:24:33
Speaker 6: I well, I'm I'm gonna go click Kubiak here. Not just because he talked to us right off the field at the Super Bowl, but also because there was little hints and flashes of his offense, which has very limited sample size, very limited data on what he actually will be and how he actually will will run a building understand all of that. So we just don't know what. We don't know quite yet. But I really really liked some of the things that I saw where conceptually, if I were going to sort of explain what he's doing, it would be he's basically taking the Kubiak system and making it applicable to not just the bygone era of the Kubiak system, but also twenty twenty six football and where it is going.

01:25:25
Speaker 4: And I think.

01:25:26
Speaker 6: Because he's obviously of that system and quite literally of person who helped create that system, I think he has a knack for understanding the best qualities to pull and that are malleable enough to apply to different rules that defenses are playing with now, and so I think.

01:25:44
Speaker 4: There's some there's some optimism there.

01:25:45
Speaker 6: One of my favorite plays that I saw all season was a Clint Kubiak design that reminded me simultaneously of Kyle Shanahan and Gary Kubiak, where he put you know, he ran a screen with like two tight ends and a full back and it came off of a motion play and it just was like so interesting to me, the way that the layers dispersed out of that screen and the personnel that he used. I was like, that dude's got something. There's something going on in that brain where he just he gets it. I think he connects with the quarterback. Well, we saw that with him and Sam Darnold. He's this low to me because we have such limited data on him and we had a bad season in New Orleans, not all his fault, obviously, and then obviously the highest of highs in Seattle last season, although their offense did take a dip. I like the potential here, So I am drafting him at what is this twenty eight pick number twenty eight.

01:26:36
Speaker 2: It's a good value.

01:26:37
Speaker 1: You're betting on the name, like the system, more than almost any coach I can think of a hire just betting on just betting on the system like that. Zach Taylor was once that guy a little bit, but Kubiak feels like he's shown his work a little more over the years, and it's a good system to bet on.

01:26:52
Speaker 2: There's a reason why it works. Let's go to the next one.

01:26:56
Speaker 5: Twenty nine, Ollie, I'll take Jeff Haffley, who we have seen as a head coach of Boston College. It was pretty brutal. He was not very good at it, so that gives me deep concerns. I thought he ran an awful building of Boston College. Thought he couldn't wait to get out, which he did and came out to Green Bay. I think he's slightly overstated as a defensive mastermind. It's pretty boilerplate stuff. But I do like his vibe. I do think he might be one of these guys who is better suited as the head coach of the building with really small people underneath him, as with professional players rather than college players, as opposed to be the guy putting the game plan together every week.

01:27:33
Speaker 1: I could see that. I could see him in front of the room. He does some fun stuff. His two defenses for Green Bay were seventh and nineteenth. Jordan's cracking up because what the knives finally came out?

01:27:43
Speaker 2: I mean though that was pretty bad.

01:27:44
Speaker 6: No, he said, you know, everything is he is everything that is wrong with coaching.

01:27:51
Speaker 4: But I like his vibe, Like.

01:27:55
Speaker 6: I love when we get like Allie in full form here, it's just it's pretty great.

01:28:01
Speaker 5: Yeah.

01:28:01
Speaker 1: I mean, look, he was There's a lot of openings this offseason and maybe not the best crop of coaches to choose from, and he was towards the back end, so it's not a total shock.

01:28:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yet he's done some fun stuff.

01:28:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, I will say too.

01:28:15
Speaker 6: You you hear out of that building out of Green Bay, you do hear there was a real connectivity that their people had sort of been craving from a high ranking coach, Connectivity with players, ability to explain things, ability to teach things. So I like those traits in a coach. I think those are promising traits what it will look like. I'm higher on the Dolphins over the next two years than I think the entire majority of the collective football opinion. I just have this feeling about them that they are executing exactly what these blueprints have showed are possible over the last couple of years. But in order to do that, you really really need a head coach who is going to give you a clear advantage, who is going to if the floor of the entire team, not just one side of the ball.

01:29:03
Speaker 4: And we have yet to see if he is going to be that guy.

01:29:06
Speaker 1: Okay, so that was actually number thirty. I misnumbered, which means thirty one, and I'm on the clock here. I'm going to take Micha Lafloor, which also means that Aaron glenn Is is thirty two.

01:29:18
Speaker 2: That is your pick, Jordan. So we could talk about these two guys together. Why not? Why why separate him?

01:29:24
Speaker 1: I just don't know with Mike Laflor and again, and I'm probably penalizing him for being like the last pick. You know, we're both Top Chef fans, Jordan. I don't know if you are, Allie. You know, they do the thing where they divide into teams, and Mike Laflor was just like the tenth pick, and you're just like, oh, well, maybe he can do a little dessert, like we'll see.

01:29:47
Speaker 2: We haven't really seen it.

01:29:48
Speaker 4: Nobody on Top Chef should do dessert, can do right.

01:29:52
Speaker 1: Like, we haven't seen it. He's been in the right buildings. It didn't go great with the jets. He doesn't present like dynamically yet that he's going to have a huge vision for the entire building like that could come in time. He's just a little bit of a question mark, and so that gives him an advantage. I think over Aaron Glenn, where we've seen the question be answered in a negative way last year, and so to me, it's not surprising that Glenn End's up thirty two on this list.

01:30:21
Speaker 5: I mean he fired his entire staff after one season. He got out of both coordinators, he fired twelve assistant coaches. He offered Wink Martin Dale a job, then pulled the off because he wanted to call place himself. He I Frank Reich, who I think is All evidence suggests this is going to be a fossilized version of the Frank Reich offense. There is going to be no ingenuity or creativity or anything that maps onto twenty twenty six football. His defensive style was outdated when he took the Jets job. It was revealed as super outdated when he actually was running the Jets, and anything that could have saved it would have been I will take on the CEO role. I'm going to go and hire better staff than I hide in year one, And instead he tried to lean on guys who were at the vanguard of ideas twelve years ago. I'm a missed out on one of them because of the culture class between the two. So yeah, I would have arn Glenn as the thirty second guy.

01:31:07
Speaker 1: Right, Like, does he evaluate player as well? He does not really provide a schematic advantage. He did not handle the pressure of the moment. It's a tough look. Jets coaches end up looking like some of the worst coaches in the last twenty years, including like Todd Bowles, where we see him in a different spot of like, Okay, that's a solid to good coach when he's not with the Jets. But Aaron Glenn was not ready for it. And frankly, the Cardinal's job has been that way too. And so we're not biased to always Jordan because Michael Flour also an NFL daily guest last year at training camp for those who remember, and you know we didn't artificially push him up the border or anything.

01:31:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, a couple thoughts just before we end on both of those guys. For Michael Floor, the thing I think he has going for him is he is probably the most like even Keel of the like modern tree guys, I guess I would say, And so I think he really understands like what the psych collogy of being the head coach is going to be, whether or not he can apply to it, we will see, and I think he's a good teacher. I think he's had a hand on so many different position groups over the years. He was specifically brought in by Sean McVay to install a lot of this run game stuff that Sean McVay had coveted for quite some time. Couldn't quite get it done himself and so really wanted to bring in Michael flore who coincidentally was the fall guy in New York for one of those Robert Salah coaching years, and so bringing us to the New York Jets with Aaron Glenn my my thing.

01:32:38
Speaker 4: I love a success story.

01:32:39
Speaker 6: I love a comeback like I would love to see Aaron Glenn be the Aaron Glenn that we loved hearing at the podium in Detroit, that we could see reached his players, that we could see got them, got the best out of out of a lot of his players, even if the scheme wasn't necessarily as as forward thinking as some of the others that have emerged in recent years.

01:33:01
Speaker 4: I would love to see it.

01:33:02
Speaker 6: I think he's got that in him, and I am not sure that he's set up for success in a team that continues to cycle through its coaches. To their credit, they aren't doing that. They're not doing the one and done thing. It does seem like there's been a clear effort to bring in people that he does align with, bring in players that he thinks he can maximize that he.

01:33:24
Speaker 4: Does align with. So we'll see.

01:33:26
Speaker 6: I would love to see the course get corrected. I would love to see him get back, you know, on track toward the potential that you know, obviously ownership saw.

01:33:35
Speaker 4: On him and that Dan Campbell saw on him. I'd like to see it. We just we just haven't yet, and that's why he is last year.

01:33:43
Speaker 1: I think it's possible because he hits a lot of my you know, truisms in the NFL, like that one of the easiest things in the NFL is to improve from like three to six or seven wins, Like it's not that hard. Luck is an incredibly big factor in every single season. Line play is when you're looking for solid team, like surprise teams every year look to the line play first. They've got It's actually a pretty good roster in general, So it is very easy for me to see them go from and another last one is like I don't. I think with coaching they're all a little more tightly bunched than we make them out to be in general. So it's a lot of other factors that can help contribute. And so I'm with you, Jordan. I think I'm already driving the Jets over five and a half bandwagon.

01:34:30
Speaker 2: And if that happens, Aaron.

01:34:32
Speaker 1: Glenn's gonna be on this list again next year, maybe a little bit higher.

01:34:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would you want to say something puzzle about Iron Glenn because I was, I was pretty tough. I would say he still is one of the best co individual coaches of man coverage technique in the modern issue of the league. Unfortunately, he is in an era where it's eighty percent men coverage across the board, and by trying to force it the other way was found out last season. So I just think it's time and place. I love Iron Glenn, the guy who just love Roon Glenn, the guy done to a better, more stable organization, with a better ROSTA. I could see him having a top balls like Roam with the books. I really could. And maybe in a second go around, well, he's like the assistant head coaching Web and that guy gets canned and he gets to do it for six weeks improve himself from the job. I could see that happening for him over time. I just think it's such a poor environmental fit for him and just to pull honestly, like macro schematic fates the worst possible time to have that defense philosophy b or overwriting philosophy, and he chose to stick with it as opposed to trying to pivot midstream.

01:35:28
Speaker 1: Well, the problem is his time and place might have been like getting that job in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty one, you know what, And it took him a while to get that opportunity, and maybe the game's change, but maybe it'll change back.

01:35:40
Speaker 2: That's how he gets came mump for.

01:35:42
Speaker 6: Me always because of the way he handled thereon Rogers' situation, like the exacty, he always gets a higher bump for me. That was the most epic stuff. I loved it. I was like, do this be this guy the whole your entire Just lean into this.

01:35:56
Speaker 4: Be who you are, be you know.

01:35:58
Speaker 6: Confident in being that person. And Allie, do not let my golden retriever like positivity at all pressure you to bring in positive commentary on somebody who is ranked last on our board here like it's it's fine, man, we like you for you.

01:36:19
Speaker 5: I just like it. I like Aaron Glenn. I just saying calling it as I see it. I think he's in over his head as a head coach. Unfortunately, I thought he was going to be great. So I'm, you know, kind of repudating myself.

01:36:28
Speaker 1: Just the big w Jordan's hit on something though, like we bring OLLI for the x's and o's and the enthusiasm, but occasionally for just the Manchester rain clouds to come in and pour over the league.

01:36:41
Speaker 2: This was a ton of fun. Maybe we will do it next time.

01:36:43
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll rank best Press conference head coaches and then Aaron Glenn's top top five maybe on on that list. But this was really fun to do our first edition of NFL Daily thirty two.

01:36:53
Speaker 2: We're going to be doing it throughout the off season. Mate.

01:36:56
Speaker 1: Maybe we will add some beverages to the mix next time.

01:36:59
Speaker 2: That's how we're wrapping up our week.

01:37:01
Speaker 1: Every week the Big Honkin Show where Week in Honk We will be back on Monday. It's gonna be myself and Nick Shook. We are deep into the offseason. Football is not back, but NFL Daily we'll be back on Monday.

01:37:15
Speaker 2: Season