JET’s record result and the quest for fusion energy

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Physics World. Hello, and welcome to the Physics

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World Stories podcast.

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I'm Andrew Glester, and nuclear fusion promises

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one day to be the power of the

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future with relatively clean energy to power the

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world. For some, it's always thirty years away.

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But last month, a significant step was taken

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by the fusion community towards that goal. We'll

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hear about that shortly. And later in the

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podcast, we'll hear about the role that robotics

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is playing in the attempts to make nuclear

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fusion energy a reality.

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First, though, we'd like to thank Pfeiffer vacuum

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for sponsoring this podcast.

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The company is one of the world's leading

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developers, manufacturers,

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and suppliers of vacuum solutions.

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Pfeiffer vacuum has been producing innovative end to

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end vacuum solutions since 1890,

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and over the years has collaborated with some

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of the largest

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and most ambitious scientific experiments.

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And for many years, Pfeiffer vacuum has been

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a globally well established

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and highly competent partner for fusion experiments.

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One thing all these experiments have in common,

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they all need reliable,

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high performance

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vacuum equipment.

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Using different kind of vacuum solutions starting with

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gauges,

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mass spectrometers,

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leak detectors,

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turbo pumps, and especially designed tritium compatible pumps.

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For Pfeiffer vacuum, it's especially important to work

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out a solution

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in close cooperation

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with the user. Find out more at Pfeiffer-vacuum.com.

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Here's Leah Morgan. I'm a diagnostic project engineer

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at the UK Atomic Energy Authority. At work,

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we have two tokamaks.

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So we have two

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big fusion experiments.

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On them are

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a bunch of sensors. They're sort of mini

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diagnostics,

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mini experiments

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that sit all over these tokamaks, and they

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measure things like temperature and density

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and all kinds of fun things. A tokamak

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is a doughnut shaped device containing magnets that

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are used to control ionized gas known as

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plasma. The goal is to create just the

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right extreme temperature

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for atoms to start fusing together

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and releasing energy

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in the same process

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that occurs

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inside the sun.

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The two tokamaks that Leah works on are

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based at the Culham Centre for Fusion Energy

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in Oxfordshire.

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1 is the joint European Torus or JET

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for short. The other has the not quite

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so catchy name of the mega ampere spherical

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tokamak,

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also known as mast underscore

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u. So each of these sort of sensors,

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these mini experiments,

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they have an associated

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physicist.

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So I kind of work with those physicists

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to

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make these diagnostics a reality, basically.

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So that's the sort of project engineer part

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of my job

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is taking these

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cool ideas for new ways to measure things

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inside the tokamaks and

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making them real things and then putting them

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on the machines. Before we get into the

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details of the recent breakthrough, I first asked

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Leah if she could remind us what fusion

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energy is and how her team is trying

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to harness fusion energy at the Cullum Center.

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Fusion energy is

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the energy source that powers all the stars

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in our universe.

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It essentially

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involves

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fusing or combining

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two small nuclei,

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mashing them together

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so they become one

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larger nuclei and loads of fusion energy.

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So at the UK Atomic Energy Authority,

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we're taking two isotopes of hydrogen. We're taking

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deuterium

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and tritium

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or heavy hydrogen and super heavy hydrogen

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and heating them up to a 50,000,000

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degrees and

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forcing them to fuse together to make helium

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and a little tiny neutron that goes flying

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off with all of our fusion energy. What

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would a nuclear fusion power plant actually look

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like? Power plants

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haven't really changed in design in

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decades. I mean,

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they are

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kind of ridiculous.

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So

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for those who don't know, most power plants

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have,

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sort of Victorian technology in them. You heat

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up water, big tanker water,

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that turns into steam. Steam drives a turbine.

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Turbine makes electricity.

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And the only thing that's really changed is

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what sits inside it and heats up that

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water.

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So even a a nuclear fission power plant

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essentially has nuclear reactions heating up that water

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right in its core, which is wild when

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you think about it. It's literally sort of

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the highest tech and the most basic tech

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sitting next to each other and powering the

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world.

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So I imagine, for the most part,

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a fusion energy power plant would look very

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similar to any other power plant. It would

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have those big cooling towers. It would have,

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you know, a big tank of water driving

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the turbine.

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Although I do know that part of our

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research in the fusion community in general is

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what would a fusion energy power plant look

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like, what would it need,

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would it have this big tank of water

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in it that we're heating up to drive

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a turbine.

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So I imagine it would look like a

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normal power plant from the outside, although,

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you know, can never tell. New tech might

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arise. Maybe. But could you tell me about

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the recent exciting news for the fusion community?

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JET, the joint European torus, is a

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massive tokamak, a massive magnetically confined fusion experiment

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that UKAEA

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runs on behalf of Eurofusion. So Eurofusion is

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like,

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a big consortium of fusion companies all over

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Europe.

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And

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earlier this year, JET managed to break its

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own record,

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for the most

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for the longest sustained fusion pulse.

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So in 1997,

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JET ran some

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world record breaking campaigns, the sort of first

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campaigns of their kind. When I say campaign,

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I mean,

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a series of scientific experiments.

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And these included

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the world record for the most fusion power

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produced in a single pulse. So when we

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run the machine once, we say that is

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a pulse.

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And this record was

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no point one seconds we managed to run

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it for,

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which is still a massive achievement because,

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energy is energy. Power is power.

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But for future fusion power plants, we need

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sustained fusion. We need fusion that can run

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for long periods of time.

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And the plasma superheated fuel inside the machine

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can basically start to collapse within

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less than a second, like, tens of seconds.

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So while being able to run it for

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no point one seconds was excellent, we need

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a long sustained fusion pulse.

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And at the time, we did manage to

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do that. We ran for about five seconds,

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and

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our goal here was to reproduce those experiments,

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run jet hotter, run it longer,

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and essentially prove that our physics models that

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we were basing future power plants on were

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good, were correct.

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Another reason we ran them was we had

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recently replaced the inner wall inside JET.

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So JET is a big fusion experiment, and

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it is

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running

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experiments, testing things for ITER, which is the

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next fusion experiment being built in the South

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Of France.

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And as part of that, we replaced the

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whole inner wall inside JET with the ITER

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like inner wall, which is an excellent name.

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It's genuinely called ITER like. It's ITER like.

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And, we need to know that this wall

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worked. We we needed to know that we

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could run sustained plasmas just like we had

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done in 1997

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and that,

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we knew what we were doing, basically.

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So we

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tried to run another one of these sustained

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pulses.

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It went excellently. We got even more energy

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out. We we ran even hotter.

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And

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we sort of sat down, looked at the

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results, and thought, let's go again. Let's run

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it even hotter.

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So JET managed to produce 59 megajoules of

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fusion energy over five seconds, which is extremely

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impressive and is more than double

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what it managed to produce in 1997,

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which is awesome. Yes. But what does it

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really mean? JET's whole purpose is to

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tell us how to run a fusion reactor

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to prepare us to have

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fusion power plants in the future.

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So,

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this directly feeds into those future power plants.

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It demonstrates that we are,

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able to run these sustained pulses that we

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know what we're doing. So while five seconds

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might not sound like a massively long time,

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in terms of fusion, it's an extremely long

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time. So these plasmas that we are running

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can,

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I would say, collapse? Turbulences can build up

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inside them, and they, poof, disappear.

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And that can happen in tenths of seconds.

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So if you can run for five seconds,

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you know you can run a sustained plasma.

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So if you can run for five seconds,

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you can run for five minutes, and you

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can run five hours and so on as

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you get more and more advanced machines. So

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this sort of directly impacts

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our ability to to show we know what

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we're doing with these machines, which is extremely

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exciting. Can JET do more than five seconds?

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Is this some will JET be able to

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expand beyond that? Tragically,

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JET cannot do more than five seconds.

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So JET was built in the nineteen eighties,

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and at the time, cutting edge fusion

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magnet technology

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was copper coil magnets.

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So these magnets, I don't believe they have

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any direct cooling, so they get hot, like,

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really, really hot.

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And that limits how long we can actually

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run the machine for. So,

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we essentially run once. We run a pulse,

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and then we wait twenty minutes for the

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magnets to cool down. We watch it go

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down on these screens.

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And then we run another pulse, and that's

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basically a a day of scientific campaigns.

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Fusion reactors of the future are gonna have

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high temperature superconducting

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magnets. So companies like Tokamak Energy are working

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on those.

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I think,

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Spark is working on them in America as

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well. It's the cutting edge magnet technology of

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today. It's what all future Tokamaks will likely

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have in them.

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00:10:49,784 --> 00:10:52,184
So, yeah, tragically, Jet can only run for

278
00:10:52,184 --> 00:10:53,644
five seconds at a time,

279
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,240
but it's still extremely cool. Okay. So it's

280
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,539
ITER like because

281
00:10:59,639 --> 00:11:01,019
what JET's doing is

282
00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:03,960
proving that ITER can work. But ITER has

283
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,799
also been being built for a very long

284
00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:07,695
time. Right? This is this is a big

285
00:11:07,695 --> 00:11:09,774
project, and it's taking a long time. So

286
00:11:09,774 --> 00:11:11,394
ITER is a

287
00:11:12,014 --> 00:11:12,514
sort

288
00:11:12,894 --> 00:11:15,134
of world experiment. You can think of it

289
00:11:15,134 --> 00:11:17,875
as the CERN of fusion energy.

290
00:11:18,334 --> 00:11:21,235
So there are loads of partners involved.

291
00:11:21,850 --> 00:11:23,370
There are am I gonna try and name

292
00:11:23,370 --> 00:11:24,190
them? Yes.

293
00:11:24,730 --> 00:11:26,350
China, the European Union,

294
00:11:26,889 --> 00:11:29,389
India, Russia, America, Korea,

295
00:11:30,330 --> 00:11:30,830
Japan?

296
00:11:32,090 --> 00:11:34,250
I believe there's seven. I'm pretty sure there's

297
00:11:34,250 --> 00:11:34,750
seven.

298
00:11:35,215 --> 00:11:37,695
And when you have all these countries working

299
00:11:37,695 --> 00:11:38,195
together,

300
00:11:38,654 --> 00:11:41,075
things don't necessarily run super fast.

301
00:11:41,934 --> 00:11:42,434
However,

302
00:11:43,215 --> 00:11:45,695
they are certainly on their way. ITER is

303
00:11:45,695 --> 00:11:47,934
being built at the moment. They're uploading these

304
00:11:47,934 --> 00:11:48,754
really cool,

305
00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:51,759
sort of time lapses of it being built.

306
00:11:52,139 --> 00:11:55,019
And I believe it's on track for being

307
00:11:55,019 --> 00:11:56,779
finished in 2025

308
00:11:56,779 --> 00:11:59,440
with first plasma, I think, in 2030,

309
00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:01,500
which is gonna be amazing because it's in

310
00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:02,955
the South Of France, so I will get

311
00:12:02,955 --> 00:12:04,315
to visit and go to the South Of

312
00:12:04,315 --> 00:12:06,154
France at the same time. Yeah. No. I

313
00:12:06,154 --> 00:12:07,835
was gonna ask if that was that was

314
00:12:07,835 --> 00:12:09,754
a plan. But wait. What does that mean,

315
00:12:09,754 --> 00:12:12,335
first plasma? I mean, assume that doesn't mean,

316
00:12:12,394 --> 00:12:14,075
okay, now we're now we're in the world

317
00:12:14,075 --> 00:12:15,450
of nuclear fusion.

318
00:12:15,769 --> 00:12:18,090
So, turning ITER on is gonna be a

319
00:12:18,090 --> 00:12:19,629
really massive endeavor.

320
00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:20,990
It is

321
00:12:21,370 --> 00:12:21,870
significantly

322
00:12:22,250 --> 00:12:23,929
larger than jets. You can think of it

323
00:12:23,929 --> 00:12:27,149
as a big blown up jet, even larger.

324
00:12:27,769 --> 00:12:30,669
And as part of that, there's gonna be,

325
00:12:31,004 --> 00:12:31,504
inevitably,

326
00:12:31,965 --> 00:12:34,205
all kinds of things that come up. So

327
00:12:34,205 --> 00:12:36,924
the plan is to finish building, start running

328
00:12:36,924 --> 00:12:39,485
all the checks, checking qualities, everything as we

329
00:12:39,485 --> 00:12:39,985
expected,

330
00:12:40,684 --> 00:12:43,585
and then to be running the first experiments,

331
00:12:43,884 --> 00:12:45,345
I believe, in 2030.

332
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,480
And then once we know that it's operating

333
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,960
as expected, it's doing what we think, we

334
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:51,940
can start running,

335
00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:55,279
big d t experiments. So that's deuterium and

336
00:12:55,279 --> 00:12:56,899
tritium, which are considered

337
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,080
the fusion fuels of the future, which future

338
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,620
power plants will end up using.

339
00:13:01,995 --> 00:13:03,134
Deuterium and tritium

340
00:13:03,595 --> 00:13:04,095
produce

341
00:13:04,794 --> 00:13:07,115
a large amount of fusion energy for the

342
00:13:07,115 --> 00:13:09,774
amount of heat it takes to fuse them.

343
00:13:09,835 --> 00:13:11,115
To put that in a way that makes

344
00:13:11,115 --> 00:13:11,615
sense,

345
00:13:12,315 --> 00:13:14,634
when you do fuse it fusion, you have

346
00:13:14,634 --> 00:13:16,634
to take your fusion fuels and you have

347
00:13:16,634 --> 00:13:17,455
to get them

348
00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:21,730
to overcome the Coulomb barrier between them. So

349
00:13:21,730 --> 00:13:23,029
you've got these nuclei,

350
00:13:23,730 --> 00:13:24,629
and, obviously,

351
00:13:25,009 --> 00:13:27,409
they don't wanna hang out together. They're repelling

352
00:13:27,409 --> 00:13:28,070
each other.

353
00:13:28,449 --> 00:13:29,829
So you've got to get them

354
00:13:30,225 --> 00:13:32,544
super hot and super dense and super high

355
00:13:32,544 --> 00:13:34,784
pressure. That's easy to do inside of a

356
00:13:34,784 --> 00:13:36,464
star. In the heart of a star, you

357
00:13:36,464 --> 00:13:38,784
can imagine. It is hot and dense and

358
00:13:38,784 --> 00:13:39,524
high pressure.

359
00:13:40,065 --> 00:13:40,964
But on Earth,

360
00:13:41,264 --> 00:13:44,964
pressure and density are difficult to achieve. So

361
00:13:45,419 --> 00:13:46,879
inside these fusion experiments,

362
00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:49,679
we just go straight for temperature.

363
00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:53,100
So while the inside of the sun is

364
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,720
about 15,000,000 degrees,

365
00:13:55,179 --> 00:13:57,339
the inside of something like jet is a

366
00:13:57,339 --> 00:13:58,620
50,000,000

367
00:13:58,620 --> 00:14:01,095
degrees. So that's the kind of temperature you

368
00:14:01,095 --> 00:14:02,875
have to work with to get these,

369
00:14:03,815 --> 00:14:07,175
hydrogen nuclei close enough to actually force them

370
00:14:07,175 --> 00:14:08,475
to combine and

371
00:14:08,855 --> 00:14:11,274
become helium and release loads of fusion energy.

372
00:14:12,299 --> 00:14:12,799
And

373
00:14:13,179 --> 00:14:15,200
when you compare different fusion fuels

374
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:17,899
and sort of the cross sections of those

375
00:14:17,899 --> 00:14:18,399
nuclei,

376
00:14:19,019 --> 00:14:21,019
they have a sort of curve on their

377
00:14:21,019 --> 00:14:23,279
cross sections that varies across temperature.

378
00:14:23,865 --> 00:14:25,964
So for each of these, there's a perfect

379
00:14:26,024 --> 00:14:28,504
temperature to get the perfect cross section to

380
00:14:28,504 --> 00:14:29,485
force a reaction,

381
00:14:29,945 --> 00:14:32,044
and deuterium and tritium just have

382
00:14:32,584 --> 00:14:33,725
the sort of

383
00:14:34,504 --> 00:14:36,904
perfect heat. It's like the maximum heat we

384
00:14:36,904 --> 00:14:37,644
can achieve,

385
00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:40,769
and it's a super efficient reaction. So in

386
00:14:40,769 --> 00:14:42,690
terms of things you'd want inside of a

387
00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:44,790
power plant, they are kinda perfect.

388
00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:46,790
As you say, when a lot

389
00:14:47,170 --> 00:14:49,190
a lot of different countries are working together

390
00:14:49,570 --> 00:14:51,730
to to make something like this, it it

391
00:14:51,730 --> 00:14:53,269
it takes a long time.

392
00:14:53,654 --> 00:14:55,995
How does how does it follow then

393
00:14:56,454 --> 00:14:58,615
that nuclear fusion's gonna be the power of

394
00:14:58,615 --> 00:15:00,534
the future? If it takes this many to

395
00:15:00,534 --> 00:15:02,855
do it, how is it gonna power the

396
00:15:02,855 --> 00:15:05,174
world? When we say fusion is the energy

397
00:15:05,174 --> 00:15:07,674
of the future, we are talking about

398
00:15:08,289 --> 00:15:10,389
a future where we have

399
00:15:10,769 --> 00:15:13,009
removed fossil fuels, and we're now doing something

400
00:15:13,009 --> 00:15:15,970
called baseloading the grid. So we've taken out

401
00:15:15,970 --> 00:15:18,690
everything that's producing loads of carbon, loads of

402
00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:19,590
nasty things.

403
00:15:20,049 --> 00:15:22,764
And in the ideal future, we've replaced those

404
00:15:22,764 --> 00:15:25,404
all with fusion, which, as a reaction, doesn't

405
00:15:25,404 --> 00:15:28,125
produce any carbon at all. There's still room

406
00:15:28,125 --> 00:15:31,004
for nuclear fission in that energy mix. There's

407
00:15:31,004 --> 00:15:32,065
still room for

408
00:15:32,605 --> 00:15:35,184
our renewables, obviously, solar and wind.

409
00:15:36,209 --> 00:15:36,709
But,

410
00:15:37,649 --> 00:15:40,610
obviously, it's not an immediate fix to the

411
00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:44,470
climate crisis. Climate crisis is immediate and now

412
00:15:44,850 --> 00:15:45,829
slightly urgent.

413
00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:47,970
We, yeah, like I say, like to think

414
00:15:47,970 --> 00:15:50,544
of it as the fuel of the future.

415
00:15:50,605 --> 00:15:53,164
So rather than an immediate solution to the

416
00:15:53,164 --> 00:15:55,325
climate crisis, it is what we'll be using

417
00:15:55,325 --> 00:15:57,804
years from now when our energy demand is

418
00:15:57,804 --> 00:15:59,664
extremely high and we need

419
00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:00,625
a

420
00:16:01,085 --> 00:16:01,585
efficient,

421
00:16:02,284 --> 00:16:03,184
low cost,

422
00:16:03,870 --> 00:16:06,350
carbon free energy source. So is it sort

423
00:16:06,350 --> 00:16:07,090
of altruistic?

424
00:16:07,470 --> 00:16:08,990
You're sort of working on it for other

425
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:10,350
people, or are you hoping for it in

426
00:16:10,350 --> 00:16:11,009
your lifetime?

427
00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:13,330
I would hope for it in my lifetime.

428
00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:15,070
I would I would at least hope for

429
00:16:15,070 --> 00:16:17,970
the first demonstration power plants in my lifetime.

430
00:16:18,524 --> 00:16:21,565
After ITER, we have things like Demo, which

431
00:16:21,565 --> 00:16:24,684
is the first demonstration power plant, another greatly

432
00:16:24,684 --> 00:16:25,504
named thing,

433
00:16:25,964 --> 00:16:26,464
which

434
00:16:26,924 --> 00:16:28,924
Jet has fed into ITER. ITER will feed

435
00:16:28,924 --> 00:16:31,644
into Demo, and that's planned for the twenty

436
00:16:31,644 --> 00:16:33,904
forties. So I would hope to see them

437
00:16:35,139 --> 00:16:37,059
soon. Selfishly, I would like to see them

438
00:16:37,059 --> 00:16:38,679
and work in one. That would be awesome.

439
00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:40,899
When did it come into your life? I

440
00:16:40,899 --> 00:16:43,080
I did a master's degree in physics, and

441
00:16:43,379 --> 00:16:43,879
I

442
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:45,320
got to

443
00:16:45,779 --> 00:16:47,299
the end of my degree. I'd always been

444
00:16:47,299 --> 00:16:48,820
under the impression that I was gonna do

445
00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:49,480
a PhD

446
00:16:50,115 --> 00:16:52,835
as is often the case for physics students

447
00:16:52,835 --> 00:16:53,654
who have masters.

448
00:16:54,274 --> 00:16:56,915
And I just I I couldn't I I

449
00:16:56,915 --> 00:16:59,075
couldn't settle on anything. I I was interested

450
00:16:59,075 --> 00:17:00,134
in too many things.

451
00:17:00,915 --> 00:17:03,495
And as part of our nuclear module, we

452
00:17:04,289 --> 00:17:06,789
did a very small bit on fusion energy,

453
00:17:07,090 --> 00:17:09,009
and there was all this talk of, you

454
00:17:09,009 --> 00:17:09,509
know,

455
00:17:09,970 --> 00:17:12,289
doesn't release any carbon, and it's the energy

456
00:17:12,289 --> 00:17:14,049
of the future. It powers stars, and I

457
00:17:14,049 --> 00:17:15,830
was like, that sounds awesome.

458
00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:18,950
So I started looking up,

459
00:17:19,575 --> 00:17:21,335
how do I do that? How do I

460
00:17:21,335 --> 00:17:22,474
put that in my life?

461
00:17:23,414 --> 00:17:23,914
And

462
00:17:24,454 --> 00:17:27,654
the UK Atomic Energy Authority had a graduate

463
00:17:27,654 --> 00:17:29,914
scheme, but they were only hiring engineers,

464
00:17:30,375 --> 00:17:32,534
and I thought they probably won't want me,

465
00:17:32,534 --> 00:17:33,515
a lonely physicist.

466
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,240
So, yeah, I applied to their graduate scheme

467
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,900
having decided, yes, I'm doing fusion energy now

468
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:42,380
and was very lucky to get on. So,

469
00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:44,140
yeah, I'd say sort of

470
00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:46,759
fourth year was when I first discovered it,

471
00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:47,984
and now it's a big part of what

472
00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:50,065
I do. Tell me about the process of

473
00:17:50,065 --> 00:17:52,384
physics to engineering. Has it been okay? I've

474
00:17:52,384 --> 00:17:54,244
been made fun of, if I'm being honest.

475
00:17:57,265 --> 00:17:58,884
Yeah. It was it's been

476
00:17:59,184 --> 00:18:00,644
extremely fun, actually.

477
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:02,309
There's

478
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:05,529
I've I've so enjoyed sort of the practical

479
00:18:05,589 --> 00:18:06,809
application of physics.

480
00:18:07,429 --> 00:18:07,929
I

481
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:10,710
never really got on with the theoretical side

482
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:11,289
of things,

483
00:18:12,069 --> 00:18:14,309
although I did very enjoy particle physics. But

484
00:18:14,309 --> 00:18:15,769
even then, it was the

485
00:18:16,204 --> 00:18:18,384
the detectors and the actual experiments.

486
00:18:19,565 --> 00:18:21,724
So it's been really fun sort of developing

487
00:18:21,724 --> 00:18:23,744
those practical skills and,

488
00:18:24,684 --> 00:18:26,944
all the sort of day to day communication,

489
00:18:27,244 --> 00:18:30,444
you know, speaking to physicists, working with experts

490
00:18:30,444 --> 00:18:31,585
in various fields.

491
00:18:32,179 --> 00:18:34,279
So, yeah, it's been it's been a journey,

492
00:18:35,140 --> 00:18:36,900
but it's been a a really fun one.

493
00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:38,019
I mean, are you gonna stick with the

494
00:18:38,019 --> 00:18:40,099
engineering? Do you think you'll go back to

495
00:18:40,099 --> 00:18:41,460
the physics side of things, or do you

496
00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:42,519
feel like you're

497
00:18:42,980 --> 00:18:44,599
meeting them nicely in the middle?

498
00:18:45,025 --> 00:18:46,704
To be honest, I do feel like I

499
00:18:46,704 --> 00:18:48,724
am in that sweet spot between

500
00:18:49,184 --> 00:18:51,924
physics and engineering because I have the

501
00:18:52,384 --> 00:18:53,365
physics background.

502
00:18:53,664 --> 00:18:54,164
I

503
00:18:54,625 --> 00:18:57,025
understand all the weird physics that's going on

504
00:18:57,025 --> 00:18:58,164
inside these diagnostics,

505
00:18:58,819 --> 00:19:00,920
At the same time, I'm gaining those engineering

506
00:19:01,059 --> 00:19:01,960
skills. So,

507
00:19:02,740 --> 00:19:04,579
how do you actually get something on the

508
00:19:04,579 --> 00:19:05,079
machine?

509
00:19:05,380 --> 00:19:07,059
Although I'd never say no to going back

510
00:19:07,059 --> 00:19:08,420
to physics. I think if I found the

511
00:19:08,420 --> 00:19:10,759
right thing, I might I might come back.

512
00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:12,900
But at the minute, I'm I'm a big

513
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:14,339
fan of the sweet spot that I'm in

514
00:19:14,339 --> 00:19:16,894
that feels like a really good balance of,

515
00:19:18,234 --> 00:19:19,994
I was gonna say reading books and doing

516
00:19:19,994 --> 00:19:20,494
things.

517
00:19:21,835 --> 00:19:23,275
Where where do you think it's gonna take

518
00:19:23,275 --> 00:19:25,755
you? I I like everything. I'm keen in

519
00:19:25,755 --> 00:19:27,214
the next thing that I see.

520
00:19:27,515 --> 00:19:29,934
So I'm really interested in

521
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:33,140
gaining more knowledge over these different diagnostics. I'd

522
00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:35,240
love to put some diagnostics in

523
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:37,700
at ITA, which is hopefully something I'll be

524
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:39,160
able to do in the near future.

525
00:19:39,779 --> 00:19:41,000
But I'm also interested

526
00:19:41,299 --> 00:19:41,799
in

527
00:19:42,355 --> 00:19:43,474
getting into the,

528
00:19:43,875 --> 00:19:46,434
jet control room and the MASU control room,

529
00:19:46,434 --> 00:19:48,294
which is out of the Tokamak on-site.

530
00:19:49,714 --> 00:19:52,835
They there are many scientists and engineers actually

531
00:19:52,835 --> 00:19:54,774
that work in the control room to

532
00:19:55,154 --> 00:19:57,174
operate the devices during experiments,

533
00:19:57,554 --> 00:19:59,630
and it's extremely cool.

534
00:20:00,890 --> 00:20:01,390
Unfortunately,

535
00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:04,570
so that we could look after JET actually

536
00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,070
during,

537
00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:07,549
during The UK lockdown,

538
00:20:08,009 --> 00:20:09,230
I was kicked out.

539
00:20:09,769 --> 00:20:11,070
My training was canceled,

540
00:20:11,764 --> 00:20:14,345
in the Jet Control Room to protect operations.

541
00:20:14,644 --> 00:20:16,904
Totally understandable. A little hurtful.

542
00:20:18,005 --> 00:20:19,605
So I'm hoping at some point to get

543
00:20:19,605 --> 00:20:20,744
back in and,

544
00:20:21,684 --> 00:20:23,605
be able to finish my training because that

545
00:20:23,605 --> 00:20:24,105
is

546
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:26,820
a sort of one off opportunity that you

547
00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:28,500
don't get to do anywhere else. So I

548
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:29,059
would love to,

549
00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:31,700
sit in the control room and and mess

550
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:32,359
with things.

551
00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:34,259
Yeah. But you say you might have a

552
00:20:34,259 --> 00:20:36,259
chance to do diagnostics at METO. Is that

553
00:20:36,259 --> 00:20:38,455
sort of you hope to or that's in

554
00:20:38,455 --> 00:20:41,434
the pipeline? So UK is involved with ITA,

555
00:20:41,975 --> 00:20:44,634
and my department that I work in is

556
00:20:45,255 --> 00:20:48,695
diagnostics and fusion engineering. So we are hoping

557
00:20:48,695 --> 00:20:50,535
at some point to take on some ITA

558
00:20:50,535 --> 00:20:51,035
contracts

559
00:20:51,335 --> 00:20:51,835
contracts,

560
00:20:52,295 --> 00:20:55,250
ITA contracts out there work various different things,

561
00:20:56,029 --> 00:20:56,690
and hopefully,

562
00:20:57,309 --> 00:20:59,869
yeah, get to get to do a diagnostic

563
00:20:59,869 --> 00:21:02,369
in the near future, which is extremely fun.

564
00:21:03,070 --> 00:21:04,609
One of the main concerns,

565
00:21:04,910 --> 00:21:06,849
obviously, of nuclear fission

566
00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:08,289
is the

567
00:21:08,964 --> 00:21:10,024
radioactive waste.

568
00:21:10,404 --> 00:21:12,644
I believe that's certainly not the case with

569
00:21:12,644 --> 00:21:13,464
nuclear fusion.

570
00:21:14,004 --> 00:21:17,044
We are essentially doing the opposite of nuclear

571
00:21:17,044 --> 00:21:19,444
fission when we do, fusion energy, when we

572
00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:20,504
do nuclear fusion.

573
00:21:21,059 --> 00:21:23,619
Instead of taking something large and splitting it

574
00:21:23,619 --> 00:21:25,940
into two, we are literally takes two things

575
00:21:25,940 --> 00:21:28,279
small and making them into one larger thing.

576
00:21:28,579 --> 00:21:29,640
So when you do,

577
00:21:30,339 --> 00:21:33,319
a fusion experiment, when you have fusion reactions,

578
00:21:33,940 --> 00:21:35,220
you don't produce any,

579
00:21:36,554 --> 00:21:38,894
radioactive waste during the experiment.

580
00:21:39,194 --> 00:21:39,694
So,

581
00:21:40,875 --> 00:21:43,115
you you produce helium and a neutron, so

582
00:21:43,115 --> 00:21:45,595
there's nothing particularly strange coming out of the

583
00:21:45,595 --> 00:21:46,095
machine.

584
00:21:46,875 --> 00:21:47,615
The only,

585
00:21:48,394 --> 00:21:50,875
I suppose, radioactive waste you end up with

586
00:21:50,875 --> 00:21:51,855
is the actual

587
00:21:52,250 --> 00:21:55,769
shell, the actual vacuum chamber of your fusion

588
00:21:55,769 --> 00:21:57,869
reactor once you've done with it. So

589
00:21:58,330 --> 00:22:00,670
over the years being bombarded by neutrons,

590
00:22:01,450 --> 00:22:03,869
the vacuum chamber itself gets a little hot,

591
00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:05,150
a little spicy.

592
00:22:06,170 --> 00:22:07,869
So, eventually, you have to

593
00:22:08,565 --> 00:22:10,724
find a way of dealing with that. Although

594
00:22:10,724 --> 00:22:13,144
I would say that the vacuum chamber remains

595
00:22:13,284 --> 00:22:14,904
hot, remains slightly radioactive

596
00:22:15,204 --> 00:22:15,704
for

597
00:22:16,085 --> 00:22:16,585
decades

598
00:22:17,284 --> 00:22:18,184
compared to,

599
00:22:19,044 --> 00:22:21,704
waste produced by a fishing plant that is

600
00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:24,769
extremely long lived, talking hundreds of thousands of

601
00:22:24,769 --> 00:22:25,269
years.

602
00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:26,370
So, yeah, it's a

603
00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:29,809
while it sounds very similar at its core,

604
00:22:29,809 --> 00:22:32,370
they are two very different energy sources. But

605
00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:34,610
anybody who's been following the news recently might

606
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:35,269
have seen

607
00:22:36,704 --> 00:22:38,244
the concerns around Chernobyl

608
00:22:38,625 --> 00:22:40,325
and what can happen if

609
00:22:40,704 --> 00:22:41,365
a hostile

610
00:22:41,984 --> 00:22:45,105
power of some sort takes control of a

611
00:22:45,105 --> 00:22:47,265
nuclear fission plant. Is that something we would

612
00:22:47,265 --> 00:22:49,744
need to worry about with fusion? So one

613
00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:50,404
of the,

614
00:22:51,070 --> 00:22:52,369
I mean, main concerns

615
00:22:52,670 --> 00:22:53,970
around nuclear fission

616
00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:56,690
is the fact that it produces

617
00:22:57,390 --> 00:23:00,849
fissile material. It produces material that could hypothetically

618
00:23:01,630 --> 00:23:04,029
be turned into a nuclear weapon of some

619
00:23:04,029 --> 00:23:04,529
kind.

620
00:23:04,910 --> 00:23:07,944
One of the positives of fusion energy, nuclear

621
00:23:07,944 --> 00:23:08,444
fusion,

622
00:23:09,144 --> 00:23:12,044
is that it doesn't produce this. There is

623
00:23:12,105 --> 00:23:14,505
nothing that you could run on to site

624
00:23:14,505 --> 00:23:17,144
and take and use for ill will. So

625
00:23:17,144 --> 00:23:19,144
I would say that is a benefit of

626
00:23:19,144 --> 00:23:21,224
nuclear fusion is it just doesn't have that

627
00:23:21,224 --> 00:23:21,964
same worry.

628
00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:24,330
Well, that's certainly a good thing, but inside

629
00:23:24,330 --> 00:23:24,990
a tokamak

630
00:23:25,289 --> 00:23:27,289
is not the kind of place that a

631
00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:29,769
human being would like to go, and that's

632
00:23:29,769 --> 00:23:32,570
where the robotics comes in. And here's Helena

633
00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:35,309
Livesey. I am a mechanical design engineer

634
00:23:35,815 --> 00:23:38,855
in our remote applications for challenging environments, also

635
00:23:38,855 --> 00:23:40,394
known as RACE, at UKAEA.

636
00:23:40,775 --> 00:23:42,875
RACE in general is looking at

637
00:23:43,575 --> 00:23:45,515
how we can utilize robotics

638
00:23:46,295 --> 00:23:47,255
to maintain

639
00:23:47,899 --> 00:23:49,819
well, we started looking at how we can

640
00:23:49,819 --> 00:23:51,039
maintain fusion reactors,

641
00:23:51,419 --> 00:23:53,419
and we've kind of gone from there into

642
00:23:53,419 --> 00:23:56,079
other challenging environments as well. So we've got,

643
00:23:56,299 --> 00:23:58,559
you know, over thirty years experience,

644
00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:00,240
of

645
00:24:00,634 --> 00:24:02,494
maintaining jet at UKAA.

646
00:24:03,835 --> 00:24:04,335
And

647
00:24:04,954 --> 00:24:07,194
with doing that, we've had to use remote

648
00:24:07,194 --> 00:24:08,575
means to do it, robotics,

649
00:24:09,514 --> 00:24:12,335
because it's challenging environment to send humans into.

650
00:24:13,835 --> 00:24:14,654
So to keep

651
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:17,289
our operators safe, we use these robotics.

652
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:21,210
And with all that experience, we're able to

653
00:24:21,670 --> 00:24:22,170
then

654
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:25,049
use that in other areas like,

655
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:28,809
decommissioning nuclear reactors,

656
00:24:30,035 --> 00:24:32,535
and, you know, space, oil and gas,

657
00:24:33,075 --> 00:24:34,835
looking at how we can use the experience

658
00:24:34,835 --> 00:24:35,974
we've gained from fusion,

659
00:24:36,674 --> 00:24:37,654
in other areas.

660
00:24:38,115 --> 00:24:40,434
The plasmas at JET are generated inside the

661
00:24:40,434 --> 00:24:43,589
machine's inner vacuum chamber, which is lined with

662
00:24:43,589 --> 00:24:46,710
beryllium and tungsten. The plasmataurus has a radius

663
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:49,509
of three meters and a volume of almost

664
00:24:49,509 --> 00:24:52,789
80 cubic meters. I asked Helena to describe

665
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:55,289
the robots that are sent into this chamber.

666
00:24:55,509 --> 00:24:56,890
What we use in JET,

667
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:59,174
is we call it mascot,

668
00:25:00,355 --> 00:25:02,515
and it's not quite a robot. It's what

669
00:25:02,515 --> 00:25:03,815
we would call a manipulator.

670
00:25:05,234 --> 00:25:07,154
But for all intents and purposes, it's it's

671
00:25:07,154 --> 00:25:07,815
a robot.

672
00:25:08,914 --> 00:25:09,734
What what

673
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:13,330
happens is so we have mascot on we

674
00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:15,330
put it on a robotic boom that goes

675
00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:16,390
into the vessel,

676
00:25:17,009 --> 00:25:17,509
and,

677
00:25:18,130 --> 00:25:20,289
we have a copy of what we send

678
00:25:20,289 --> 00:25:20,789
into

679
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:23,269
our machine

680
00:25:24,154 --> 00:25:26,315
in our control room, which is, you know,

681
00:25:26,315 --> 00:25:29,214
behind concrete walls about 30 meters away.

682
00:25:29,755 --> 00:25:32,234
And there's an operator in our control room

683
00:25:32,234 --> 00:25:34,154
who moves the arms of the copy that

684
00:25:34,154 --> 00:25:36,575
we have. And when they move those arms,

685
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:38,710
the the machine that we have,

686
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:42,710
in vessel copies exactly what what they've done,

687
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:44,009
in the control room.

688
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:46,089
So it's a really intuitive way

689
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:48,009
of performing these tasks.

690
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:50,630
But it does take quite a few years

691
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:51,130
to

692
00:25:51,615 --> 00:25:53,454
kind of to train to be able to

693
00:25:53,454 --> 00:25:54,914
use this system because it's,

694
00:25:56,575 --> 00:25:58,494
it's kind of like computer games. I mean,

695
00:25:58,494 --> 00:26:00,674
you only have two d views,

696
00:26:02,015 --> 00:26:04,174
so it it makes it that bit more

697
00:26:04,174 --> 00:26:05,450
difficult to figure out what you're doing. You

698
00:26:05,450 --> 00:26:07,570
know, if you're bolting up something and it's

699
00:26:07,570 --> 00:26:08,849
in front of you, you can turn your

700
00:26:08,849 --> 00:26:10,529
head to see where the hole is and

701
00:26:10,529 --> 00:26:12,789
it's that bit easier to put something

702
00:26:14,369 --> 00:26:16,630
in where you want to put it.

703
00:26:17,009 --> 00:26:18,309
And it it's just

704
00:26:18,684 --> 00:26:21,085
that little bit harder when you've only got

705
00:26:21,085 --> 00:26:23,404
camera views to go off. Jet on the

706
00:26:23,404 --> 00:26:24,384
inside is

707
00:26:25,085 --> 00:26:26,464
sort of a doughnut shape.

708
00:26:27,565 --> 00:26:28,065
And

709
00:26:28,445 --> 00:26:29,984
we've got some very small

710
00:26:30,924 --> 00:26:33,529
holes, sort of we've got two on either

711
00:26:33,529 --> 00:26:35,230
side of the, of the machine.

712
00:26:35,849 --> 00:26:37,849
And through that small hole, we have to

713
00:26:37,849 --> 00:26:40,170
get something it looks a little bit like

714
00:26:40,170 --> 00:26:42,170
a person when you so we've got, like,

715
00:26:42,170 --> 00:26:43,849
a a box for the body. It's got

716
00:26:43,849 --> 00:26:44,590
two arms,

717
00:26:45,545 --> 00:26:47,304
and there's a camera for a head kind

718
00:26:47,304 --> 00:26:47,884
of thing.

719
00:26:48,424 --> 00:26:50,825
So it it does look quite like a

720
00:26:50,825 --> 00:26:51,325
person,

721
00:26:51,944 --> 00:26:53,464
and we have to sort of fold that

722
00:26:53,464 --> 00:26:55,065
up quite small to be able to get

723
00:26:55,065 --> 00:26:55,565
inside.

724
00:26:56,664 --> 00:26:58,605
And how we get inside is basically,

725
00:26:59,065 --> 00:27:01,805
something we call a boom. And it it's

726
00:27:01,805 --> 00:27:03,900
it's just sort of like a a robot

727
00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:06,000
arm, so it's got lots of links,

728
00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:06,960
a bit

729
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:08,779
like if you ever had one of those

730
00:27:08,779 --> 00:27:11,660
toy snakes as a child that, yeah, so

731
00:27:11,660 --> 00:27:13,119
that that kind of thing.

732
00:27:14,214 --> 00:27:15,894
And, yeah, we send that in so that

733
00:27:15,894 --> 00:27:17,755
we're able to get round

734
00:27:18,214 --> 00:27:18,875
the full,

735
00:27:20,054 --> 00:27:22,375
full way round to every area of this

736
00:27:22,375 --> 00:27:22,875
donut,

737
00:27:23,974 --> 00:27:26,714
that we're going into. What sort of thing

738
00:27:26,855 --> 00:27:28,075
is this

739
00:27:28,529 --> 00:27:31,730
person shaped thing that's not a robot? Person

740
00:27:31,730 --> 00:27:32,230
shaped

741
00:27:32,690 --> 00:27:35,990
robotics thing that isn't a robot called mascot.

742
00:27:36,289 --> 00:27:37,269
What's it doing?

743
00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:39,670
All kinds of things. So,

744
00:27:40,289 --> 00:27:41,904
I mean, one of the first things it

745
00:27:41,904 --> 00:27:43,424
has to do when it go goes in

746
00:27:43,424 --> 00:27:45,585
there is put lights in because it it's

747
00:27:45,664 --> 00:27:47,345
we don't have them in there usually when

748
00:27:47,345 --> 00:27:48,484
we're doing fusion.

749
00:27:48,785 --> 00:27:50,465
They're not needed, but we do need them

750
00:27:50,465 --> 00:27:51,664
to be able to see what we're doing

751
00:27:51,664 --> 00:27:52,644
when we do maintenance.

752
00:27:53,585 --> 00:27:55,205
So that's one of its first tasks.

753
00:27:55,819 --> 00:27:58,700
Other things it's doing is, kind of picking

754
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,200
and placing, removing components. So

755
00:28:01,579 --> 00:28:02,539
something we did,

756
00:28:02,859 --> 00:28:05,019
a few years ago was change all of

757
00:28:05,019 --> 00:28:07,039
the tiles on the inside of Jet.

758
00:28:08,494 --> 00:28:10,095
Part of the experiments it's doing at the

759
00:28:10,095 --> 00:28:13,055
minute is proving that the next stage machine

760
00:28:13,055 --> 00:28:13,955
called ITER,

761
00:28:15,695 --> 00:28:16,195
will,

762
00:28:17,134 --> 00:28:18,494
you know, that that that's going in the

763
00:28:18,494 --> 00:28:20,914
right direction for the science. So we changed

764
00:28:21,649 --> 00:28:23,970
the tiles inside so they were more like

765
00:28:23,970 --> 00:28:25,750
the design that Ita was gonna do,

766
00:28:26,289 --> 00:28:28,470
and that was a huge, huge task.

767
00:28:29,409 --> 00:28:32,049
Took sort of several months to change all

768
00:28:32,049 --> 00:28:33,649
of these tiles, and it seems quite a

769
00:28:33,649 --> 00:28:35,109
simple task. You know, it's,

770
00:28:36,065 --> 00:28:38,144
bolting and unbolting something, picking it up and

771
00:28:38,144 --> 00:28:39,744
and moving it, and it's very easy for

772
00:28:39,744 --> 00:28:42,164
a human. But when you're putting that extra

773
00:28:42,384 --> 00:28:42,884
complexity

774
00:28:43,505 --> 00:28:45,045
in of using a manipulator,

775
00:28:46,065 --> 00:28:47,345
it it makes it,

776
00:28:47,984 --> 00:28:49,664
a bit more challenging, and you've gotta do

777
00:28:49,664 --> 00:28:50,384
more planning.

778
00:28:50,944 --> 00:28:52,829
So that that that was an example of

779
00:28:52,829 --> 00:28:54,349
a of a task we did, but there's

780
00:28:54,349 --> 00:28:56,690
all kinds of things like cutting and welding.

781
00:28:56,910 --> 00:28:57,890
We have a hoover,

782
00:28:58,670 --> 00:29:00,450
that we send in there as well,

783
00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:03,230
to kinda tidy up the dust from the

784
00:29:03,230 --> 00:29:03,730
bottom.

785
00:29:04,744 --> 00:29:07,784
Yeah. Lots of of of different tasks, everything

786
00:29:07,784 --> 00:29:09,065
you would need to do to be able

787
00:29:09,065 --> 00:29:10,204
to maintain it, basically.

788
00:29:11,304 --> 00:29:13,404
So people don't go in there at all?

789
00:29:13,625 --> 00:29:15,704
We try to avoid it. There are some

790
00:29:15,704 --> 00:29:17,085
cases, and and it depends.

791
00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:17,964
So

792
00:29:18,619 --> 00:29:20,000
when we haven't used,

793
00:29:20,539 --> 00:29:23,019
tritium, like we have used in these most

794
00:29:23,019 --> 00:29:24,000
recent experiments,

795
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:26,299
it's it's a pretty safe environment to be

796
00:29:26,299 --> 00:29:27,360
sending somebody in.

797
00:29:28,059 --> 00:29:30,059
So we can send them in for for

798
00:29:30,059 --> 00:29:32,299
short periods. But now we've used tritium, that's

799
00:29:32,299 --> 00:29:32,799
harder,

800
00:29:33,259 --> 00:29:35,444
because it's not it's not as safe anymore

801
00:29:35,825 --> 00:29:37,125
to be inside the vessel.

802
00:29:37,664 --> 00:29:39,585
So now we have to do pretty much

803
00:29:39,585 --> 00:29:40,085
everything,

804
00:29:40,944 --> 00:29:42,164
with our remote systems.

805
00:29:42,625 --> 00:29:44,784
Do you feel attached to Mascot? Is it

806
00:29:44,944 --> 00:29:47,024
you know, because it's person shaped, does it

807
00:29:47,024 --> 00:29:48,644
affect the way you feel?

808
00:29:49,009 --> 00:29:50,769
I guess a little bit. Yeah. I we

809
00:29:50,769 --> 00:29:51,910
all quite like Mascot.

810
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:56,450
And it it's been around for a while,

811
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:58,789
so there's, yeah, there's lots of people,

812
00:29:59,730 --> 00:30:01,250
attached to it. And it's been through quite

813
00:30:01,250 --> 00:30:02,309
a few different iterations.

814
00:30:02,930 --> 00:30:05,055
We're on Mascot six now,

815
00:30:05,755 --> 00:30:07,535
and there have been a few point fives

816
00:30:07,595 --> 00:30:08,414
in in between.

817
00:30:09,515 --> 00:30:10,555
So yeah. Because it's

818
00:30:11,434 --> 00:30:12,654
I can't remember exactly

819
00:30:13,115 --> 00:30:14,974
when we first used it, but it it's

820
00:30:15,515 --> 00:30:17,535
at least 20 years old, if not 30.

821
00:30:18,809 --> 00:30:20,809
So some of the bits inside there have

822
00:30:20,809 --> 00:30:21,309
had

823
00:30:21,609 --> 00:30:22,190
to change,

824
00:30:22,649 --> 00:30:24,169
because we just can't get hold of them

825
00:30:24,169 --> 00:30:25,769
or or they weren't they're not the best

826
00:30:25,769 --> 00:30:27,309
technology anymore. So,

827
00:30:28,649 --> 00:30:29,130
yeah,

828
00:30:29,609 --> 00:30:31,950
it I guess we are all quite attached.

829
00:30:32,605 --> 00:30:35,005
And when did you start thinking, do you

830
00:30:35,005 --> 00:30:36,144
know what I'm gonna do?

831
00:30:38,365 --> 00:30:39,024
To send

832
00:30:39,484 --> 00:30:39,984
manipulators

833
00:30:40,524 --> 00:30:41,345
into things

834
00:30:41,724 --> 00:30:43,644
sort of recreating what happens at the heart

835
00:30:43,644 --> 00:30:44,304
of stars.

836
00:30:45,099 --> 00:30:46,579
In terms of getting into the robotics side,

837
00:30:46,579 --> 00:30:48,379
it was kind of an accident. I mean,

838
00:30:48,379 --> 00:30:50,859
I was so I'd done mechanical engineering at

839
00:30:50,859 --> 00:30:51,359
university,

840
00:30:52,059 --> 00:30:52,559
and,

841
00:30:53,339 --> 00:30:54,859
I was kinda coming to the end of

842
00:30:54,859 --> 00:30:56,539
it thinking, what what am I gonna do

843
00:30:56,539 --> 00:30:58,859
next? What's my what's my job gonna be?

844
00:30:58,859 --> 00:31:01,315
And I was looking at my options, you

845
00:31:01,315 --> 00:31:03,174
know, quite a lot of engineers going to

846
00:31:03,394 --> 00:31:05,174
cars and planes and,

847
00:31:05,634 --> 00:31:06,134
trains,

848
00:31:06,755 --> 00:31:10,515
and I just it didn't inspire me. I

849
00:31:10,515 --> 00:31:12,275
wanted to be able to do something, you

850
00:31:12,275 --> 00:31:13,654
know, that would have big

851
00:31:14,009 --> 00:31:15,230
positive global impact.

852
00:31:15,849 --> 00:31:18,029
And I'd heard about Jet,

853
00:31:18,650 --> 00:31:20,650
and thought, yeah, that would actually kinda fit

854
00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:21,230
the bill.

855
00:31:21,609 --> 00:31:23,769
So applied and then discovered that they had

856
00:31:23,769 --> 00:31:25,390
this robotics department.

857
00:31:25,849 --> 00:31:28,330
That that definitely sounds really cool. So, yeah,

858
00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:30,695
I just it was kind of by accident.

859
00:31:30,695 --> 00:31:32,555
It's not something you hear about at school.

860
00:31:33,095 --> 00:31:35,035
No. No. It's not, is it?

861
00:31:35,734 --> 00:31:38,055
It's really, really, really exciting. So when,

862
00:31:38,934 --> 00:31:40,894
these other applications that you go into, is

863
00:31:40,894 --> 00:31:41,994
it is that mascot

864
00:31:42,295 --> 00:31:44,279
seven, eight, 10? Or is or is that

865
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:46,200
a complete are they completely different designs that

866
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,679
go off into Completely different. We do lots

867
00:31:48,679 --> 00:31:50,759
of so if you came to visit us,

868
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,559
you'd see lots of different robots in our,

869
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:56,519
in our building. So we've got something like

870
00:31:56,519 --> 00:31:59,065
mascot, which is kind of human size, but

871
00:31:59,065 --> 00:32:01,384
we've also got something called TARM. But TARM

872
00:32:01,384 --> 00:32:03,384
is a sort of as tall as the

873
00:32:03,384 --> 00:32:06,125
building. So it's massive. It's this big boom,

874
00:32:06,345 --> 00:32:08,664
and we're using that to look at a

875
00:32:08,664 --> 00:32:10,204
step even beyond ITER,

876
00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:11,830
and,

877
00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:14,630
looking at how we can manipulate really big,

878
00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:15,830
components,

879
00:32:16,369 --> 00:32:17,890
because when they get to that size, it's

880
00:32:17,890 --> 00:32:18,630
very difficult,

881
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:20,150
to control.

882
00:32:21,490 --> 00:32:24,315
But then we're also doing things much smaller.

883
00:32:24,375 --> 00:32:27,035
We have one of Boston Dynamics' spot,

884
00:32:27,654 --> 00:32:29,494
robots, spot spot the dog, if you've come

885
00:32:29,494 --> 00:32:30,475
across those before.

886
00:32:31,414 --> 00:32:34,615
And we've sent that, to Chernobyl to look

887
00:32:34,615 --> 00:32:35,115
at,

888
00:32:35,575 --> 00:32:36,875
sort of mapping the radiation,

889
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:40,970
what how that is around that area.

890
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:44,069
And we've got a few other robots in

891
00:32:44,069 --> 00:32:45,109
between as well.

892
00:32:45,829 --> 00:32:47,769
So we're kind of using

893
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:50,710
with some of the other applications, we're looking

894
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:52,964
at how we can use industrial robots. Mascot

895
00:32:52,964 --> 00:32:56,164
is a very bespoke machine for for exactly

896
00:32:56,164 --> 00:32:57,144
what we're doing.

897
00:32:58,484 --> 00:32:58,984
Whereas,

898
00:32:59,285 --> 00:33:01,065
you know, if we're looking at trying

899
00:33:01,444 --> 00:33:03,464
to make systems like this more efficiently,

900
00:33:03,845 --> 00:33:05,684
if we can use industrial robots with all

901
00:33:05,684 --> 00:33:07,210
the experience they have, you know, kind of

902
00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:08,829
robots you'd see in a car factory,

903
00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:11,230
then it makes that development,

904
00:33:11,769 --> 00:33:13,369
a bit quicker, and we can use that

905
00:33:13,369 --> 00:33:15,609
experience rather than reinventing the wheel. So with

906
00:33:15,609 --> 00:33:17,769
your role in jet and looking back to

907
00:33:17,769 --> 00:33:19,609
the recent news, what does that mean for

908
00:33:19,609 --> 00:33:21,794
you? It proves The UK's role as a

909
00:33:21,794 --> 00:33:23,494
a global leader in fusion energy.

910
00:33:24,355 --> 00:33:25,654
And for me personally,

911
00:33:26,194 --> 00:33:26,855
the results

912
00:33:27,154 --> 00:33:27,654
showed

913
00:33:28,034 --> 00:33:30,115
that ITER is going in in the right

914
00:33:30,115 --> 00:33:32,194
direction, and and most of my work is

915
00:33:32,194 --> 00:33:33,414
actually on ITER.

916
00:33:33,714 --> 00:33:34,775
So I look at,

917
00:33:35,394 --> 00:33:35,894
mostly

918
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:39,029
how we do pipe joining in ITER, which

919
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:40,470
sounds like it should be really easy. You

920
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:42,630
know, cutting and welding pipes must be done

921
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:44,109
everywhere all the time, but when you put

922
00:33:44,109 --> 00:33:45,609
it in a a fusion machine,

923
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:49,125
it, yeah, it it becomes quite a bit

924
00:33:49,125 --> 00:33:51,445
more difficult. So for me, the jet results

925
00:33:51,445 --> 00:33:53,605
proving that ITER is going in the right

926
00:33:53,605 --> 00:33:55,365
direction when that's what I've been doing for

927
00:33:55,365 --> 00:33:57,205
the last four, five years,

928
00:33:58,005 --> 00:33:59,384
is is nice to hear.

929
00:33:59,924 --> 00:34:02,085
Yeah. Yeah. No. I imagine it is. So

930
00:34:02,085 --> 00:34:04,619
is that Tom isn't presumably doing that

931
00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:08,219
that kind of pipe joining. Tom's moving bigger

932
00:34:08,219 --> 00:34:09,360
stuff than that. Right?

933
00:34:09,980 --> 00:34:12,320
Yes. So Tom is looking at,

934
00:34:13,179 --> 00:34:15,039
you know, we've got this doughnut shaped,

935
00:34:15,739 --> 00:34:16,239
machine,

936
00:34:16,699 --> 00:34:17,199
and

937
00:34:17,514 --> 00:34:19,275
we don't make it as one big doughnut.

938
00:34:19,275 --> 00:34:21,034
We've got sectors, so it's kinda like a

939
00:34:21,034 --> 00:34:23,454
chocolate orange. We've got about eight sectors,

940
00:34:23,994 --> 00:34:26,715
in jet and more for eater and demo

941
00:34:26,715 --> 00:34:27,454
after that.

942
00:34:28,234 --> 00:34:29,054
When maintaining

943
00:34:29,675 --> 00:34:32,255
demo, those sectors might have to be changed,

944
00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:35,110
and it's it's gonna be a huge, huge

945
00:34:35,110 --> 00:34:36,010
piece of metal

946
00:34:36,390 --> 00:34:38,809
with potentially some, liquids

947
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:42,090
in there for from the blankets.

948
00:34:43,269 --> 00:34:45,449
And when you have metal that's that big,

949
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:46,809
it becomes wobbly.

950
00:34:47,275 --> 00:34:49,514
And we've gotta take this thing out of

951
00:34:49,514 --> 00:34:50,735
a very small hole,

952
00:34:51,835 --> 00:34:53,514
because, you know, it's got, like, millimeters of

953
00:34:53,514 --> 00:34:55,914
tolerance in it. And controlling that is really

954
00:34:55,914 --> 00:34:57,054
difficult. And currently

955
00:34:57,355 --> 00:34:57,855
well,

956
00:34:58,235 --> 00:35:00,315
before we did started doing the research we

957
00:35:00,315 --> 00:35:02,530
are doing with TAM, we wouldn't know how

958
00:35:02,530 --> 00:35:04,769
to be able to control something accurately enough

959
00:35:04,769 --> 00:35:06,049
to con to make sure that we can

960
00:35:06,049 --> 00:35:08,150
get it out that hole without damaging.

961
00:35:09,730 --> 00:35:12,130
So the work they're doing with TAM is

962
00:35:12,130 --> 00:35:12,949
looking at

963
00:35:13,409 --> 00:35:15,650
perfecting a control system that can deal with

964
00:35:15,650 --> 00:35:17,385
basically a wobbly load.

965
00:35:17,784 --> 00:35:19,864
Cool. And and who's joining the pipes? I

966
00:35:19,864 --> 00:35:22,664
was I say who. What what's joining the

967
00:35:22,664 --> 00:35:23,164
pipes?

968
00:35:23,545 --> 00:35:25,224
The pipes I'm looking at are in the

969
00:35:25,224 --> 00:35:27,784
diverter. So the diverter is kind of where

970
00:35:27,784 --> 00:35:29,704
all the exhaust goes from,

971
00:35:30,184 --> 00:35:31,405
the fusion reaction.

972
00:35:31,945 --> 00:35:34,180
So it's it's where it gets really hot,

973
00:35:34,180 --> 00:35:35,640
and these pipes are for cooling.

974
00:35:36,579 --> 00:35:38,099
And they're right at the bottom of the

975
00:35:38,099 --> 00:35:38,599
machine.

976
00:35:39,059 --> 00:35:39,559
So,

977
00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:42,420
we have a robot that will come in

978
00:35:42,420 --> 00:35:43,880
and take the first one out,

979
00:35:44,180 --> 00:35:46,340
and then there's another robot that will come

980
00:35:46,340 --> 00:35:47,715
in where it's been,

981
00:35:48,675 --> 00:35:51,954
and can move around where the diverter should

982
00:35:51,954 --> 00:35:52,454
be.

983
00:35:53,954 --> 00:35:55,795
And yeah. So that we've got a a

984
00:35:55,795 --> 00:35:58,755
small arm on this mover that will then

985
00:35:58,755 --> 00:36:00,515
go in and cut the pipes so that

986
00:36:00,515 --> 00:36:02,489
we're able to take these diverter

987
00:36:02,789 --> 00:36:03,849
cassettes out.

988
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:05,750
And then when we're putting them back in,

989
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:06,890
it will also weld

990
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:09,030
the them back together because we have to

991
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:10,150
be able to cut the pipe to be

992
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:12,309
able to get this cassette out. So I'm

993
00:36:12,309 --> 00:36:15,430
looking at the the actual tool that does

994
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:16,329
the the welding

995
00:36:16,734 --> 00:36:18,514
bits. I I mean, it's a vital

996
00:36:18,815 --> 00:36:20,175
role, isn't it? I mean, it's a really

997
00:36:20,175 --> 00:36:22,574
important role in in something that's just a

998
00:36:22,574 --> 00:36:23,714
huge undertaking.

999
00:36:24,094 --> 00:36:25,695
There's there's a few areas, but and this

1000
00:36:25,695 --> 00:36:27,554
is what and robotics is one of them.

1001
00:36:27,934 --> 00:36:29,454
It's one of the main areas that will

1002
00:36:29,454 --> 00:36:32,079
make fusion economically viable. So by that, I

1003
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:32,579
mean,

1004
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000
you know, currently, we can do fusion, and

1005
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,679
we're doing research. But when we get to

1006
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:40,000
making power plants, it's gotta be run by

1007
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,320
a business. You know? It's somebody has gotta

1008
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:42,980
want to

1009
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,219
invest in mill building this machine,

1010
00:36:46,214 --> 00:36:47,674
and they're not gonna do that

1011
00:36:48,054 --> 00:36:50,295
if they can't maintain it. If, you know,

1012
00:36:50,295 --> 00:36:51,835
they do a few,

1013
00:36:52,775 --> 00:36:55,654
few months of operation, and then they're stuck.

1014
00:36:55,654 --> 00:36:57,255
Like, they can't maintain it, or they're gonna

1015
00:36:57,255 --> 00:36:58,875
have to turn it off for twelve months.

1016
00:37:00,269 --> 00:37:02,670
This research in robotics, making the maintenance as

1017
00:37:02,670 --> 00:37:04,289
fast and as efficient as possible

1018
00:37:04,750 --> 00:37:06,530
is what makes fusion

1019
00:37:06,989 --> 00:37:07,890
power a reality.

1020
00:37:13,284 --> 00:37:15,605
Thanks again to Pfeiffer vacuum for sponsoring this

1021
00:37:15,605 --> 00:37:18,244
episode of the podcast. Pfeiffer vacuum provides all

1022
00:37:18,244 --> 00:37:21,465
types of vacuum equipment, including hybrid and magnetically

1023
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levitated turbo pumps, leak detectors, and analysis equipment,

1024
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as well as vacuum chambers and systems.

1025
00:37:28,769 --> 00:37:30,769
You can explore all of its products at

1026
00:37:30,769 --> 00:37:33,429
Pfeiffer-vacuum.com.

1027
00:37:37,969 --> 00:37:40,130
Thank you to Helena Livesey and Leah Morgan

1028
00:37:40,130 --> 00:37:41,675
for talking to me. If you'd like to

1029
00:37:41,675 --> 00:37:44,074
hear more from Leah, I can recommend her

1030
00:37:44,074 --> 00:37:47,434
YouTube channel, Leah Love Science. We'll be back

1031
00:37:47,434 --> 00:37:49,695
next month with something else from this wonderful

1032
00:37:49,755 --> 00:37:52,255
world of physics, And thank you very much

1033
00:37:52,255 --> 00:37:52,915
for listening.

1034
00:37:57,295 --> 00:37:58,515
Physics world.