362 | CCPT Gamechangers: Why Overanalyzing the Play Becomes a Therapist Trap (Symbolic Play & Themes)

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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we are continuing the Game Changer series,

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and we are discussing not reading too much into themes

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in the playroom.

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This is something that has been coming up

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all over the place lately.

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So,

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I want to make sure that we dive in and tackle this together.

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I think many of us are getting way too caught up in,

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we're supposed to be figuring out the theme and interpreting the

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theme and analyzing the play and making sense of everything,

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and there's a lot of danger in that.

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So,

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I want to deep dive that.

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But before we do,

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I wanna let you all know,

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thank you to all of you who have registered for the conference already,

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by the way.

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We are gearing up.

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It's

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the end of January and 1st of February,

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so January 30,

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31,

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February 1.

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Next year,

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we have early bird pricing through the end of December.

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So,

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if you are thinking about coming,

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don't spend more money than you have to.

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Make sure you register soon

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because first of all,

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space is limited.

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Second of all,

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we are trying to save you money and if you wait until January 1st or later.

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The price is gonna go up pretty substantially.

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So,

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if you are thinking about it,

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I know many of you are making plans to come from out of state,

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and we're going to give you everything you need.

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We have all kinds of stuff,

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PDFs and info and everything to make this as easy as possible.

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And by the way,

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I just wanna

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tell you a little bit about, kind of my vision

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for this conference just to help you understand where,

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where we're headed here.

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This is the first conference of its kind.

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This is the only conference where you can go and get

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12 CEs in nothing but child-centered play therapy.

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And this is not governed by any associations,

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by any bodies.

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We're providing APT approved CEUs.

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We're providing board-approved CEUs.

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So,

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if you need licensure renewal,

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if you need RPT hours,

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whatever it is,

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you can get that.

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But apart from the CEU side of it,

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we're doing this

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our own

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way

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and we're gonna make it amazing.

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And it is gonna be

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unlike any conference you've ever been to.

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So,

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I am really,

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really excited about this.

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I think this is going to be

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the first of many.

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I'm,

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I'm hoping this is our inaugural and we're going to do this annually.

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But for those of you that have already signed up,

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I'm really,

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really excited to meet y'all in person.

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I want to hug y'all and spend time with you and just

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really celebrate CCPT over a weekend and it's at Steinbrenner,

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which the Rays played there last season.

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Because the Trop got destroyed in the hurricane.

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For those of you non-baseball people,

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the Trop is what we call the Rays stadium.

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Tropicana Field is it,

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it's its official name.

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But we actually played at Steinbrenner this last season.

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So

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that has been the Rays' home this last baseball season,

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and we are just really looking forward to it.

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Weather's always beautiful,

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and

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there's so much to do here.

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So,

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come hang out in Tampa.

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It's gonna be a blast,

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and I really want to meet y'all and

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Just spend time with my people.

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So,

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all right,

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let's dive into

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themes now.

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Since,

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you know,

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my whole baseball-themed conference is done now.

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So,

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look at

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the play themes in your session

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as nothing more than what the child is working through.

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In other words,

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it is not a necessity for us to analyze

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or interpret or make sense of.

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We're not trying to,

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in the moment,

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say,

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oh,

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that has to be tied to this and,

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oh,

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mom told me this,

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so that's very clearly whatever.

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Landreth actually cautions against that.

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And what we're trying to do in the playroom is be fully present,

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fully engaged,

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aware of what's happening,

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yes,

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of course,

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but if we're in our head

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trying to come up with

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how would we define that play and what kind of theme are we pulling out,

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and is that symbolic play or is that thematic and is that repetitive?

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Oh,

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OK.

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If we're in our head thinking about all of those things,

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we're likely not as present and attuned as we should be.

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And then a second caution is

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we can't get so caught up in figuring out if it's thematic or symbolic

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that we lose sight of the child.

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The child is the focus,

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not the child's play.

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And lately I've been getting question after question after question.

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OK,

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let me tell you what's going on and tell me what theme this is.

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Would this be this theme?

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Is this considered symbolic play?

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If it's repetitive,

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does it move into this?

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Well,

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I kind of saw good versus bad,

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but I'm not sure.

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As you become more grounded in your skills.

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Your awareness of what's happening with the play is going to be easier.

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So this,

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to a degree is a patience and practice kind of scenario,

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but beyond that,

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themes

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are really only important.

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Symbolic play is really only important.

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In light of parent consults.

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You do not need

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to know at any point in any session

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for the entirety of your work with a kid.

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What theme is emerging in their play?

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Is that something parents are interested in so that they feel like

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progress is being made and there's actually things happening in there rather than,

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quote,

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you're just playing with my kid,

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or maybe even worse,

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you're just watching my kid play.

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Uh,

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no,

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there's so much more going on,

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sir,

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I assure you.

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But

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other than a parent wanting to hear

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that there's a consistent theme of

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Good versus bad.

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There's a consistent theme of competence.

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There's a consistent theme of power and control.

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That is for the parent's sake,

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not ours.

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We don't need to know that.

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The child is going to self-actualize.

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The child is going to move through and work through what they need to,

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whether we understand it or not.

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There have been many kids

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that I have been clueless

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about what was going on.

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I identified symbolic play.

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I identified themes.

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And nothing ever made sense to me.

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And I spent the entirety of sessions going,

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I have no idea

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what's happening.

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I have no idea why this kid is doing this.

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I have no idea what purpose this is serving.

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I have no idea how any of this makes sense to anything.

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And then I'd sit down in 5 week consults and parents would say

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things are so much better.

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We are so pleased.

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Everything has just changed for the better in the best ways.

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And it's like you have to pretend like you're not shocked.

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So

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I'm so happy to hear that.

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That's exactly what we've been working for.

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OK.

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But

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I'm like,

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how in the world did any of that emerge from what the heck I've been seeing in play?

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You have no idea sometimes,

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that's OK.

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You cannot let yourself get caught in the trap

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of,

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I have to understand,

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I have to recognize themes,

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I have to identify symbolic play.

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You don't.

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And if you're focusing on those things,

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I would argue

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that you're not

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grounding yourself in skills.

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You're not practicing

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execution of your skills.

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And you're not staying fully attuned and present with the child.

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And you will never be

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the rock star CCPT that you want to be.

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Unless you have those three things as a part of your every single session practice.

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So,

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my encouragement is

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be mindful,

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yes,

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that themes are there,

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symbolic play is there,

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and

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once you are able

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to not think

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and all of your skills are muscle memory.

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And you can stay fully attuned and present and engaged

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and aware of what's going on with the child,

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and you're,

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you're not ever worried about what skills are being said.

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Then

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you will naturally start to have some bandwidth and some space

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and energy in your brain

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to think about what play is taking place,

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but we would never ever

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sacrifice,

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focus on the play.

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Instead of focus on the child.

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That would never be

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how we want sessions to go.

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And I've noticed it happening a lot.

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So,

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this is a caution.

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It's a safeguard.

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It's

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a concern.

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Yes,

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I did a whole series on themes.

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I think that we should be able to recognize themes.

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They're,

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they're published.

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They're put out into research.

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We,

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we know that kids are going to play out certain themes,

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and symbolic play often turns into themes.

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So,

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should we be mindful and aware?

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Of course.

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But it can't be all consuming for us.

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We need to make sure that we are wholly focused on the child

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and the awareness of themes again is for parents.

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When you sit down in a consultation,

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you don't wanna spend an hour going.

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00:09:10,619 --> 00:09:10,840
Yeah,

281
00:09:10,919 --> 00:09:13,080
and so we just have had a lot of fun

282
00:09:13,580 --> 00:09:15,960
and the child is really active

283
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:17,140
and

284
00:09:17,380 --> 00:09:20,679
it's just been exciting to get to know your child.

285
00:09:21,219 --> 00:09:23,260
No parent is gonna hang on for five more

286
00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:25,739
if that's all you have to share in the way of insight.

287
00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:27,880
So of course you need to be able to say

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00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:30,119
repetitively every week,

289
00:09:30,419 --> 00:09:32,239
I've seen power and control emerge,

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00:09:32,340 --> 00:09:34,919
and when something is repetitive in sessions

291
00:09:35,099 --> 00:09:36,099
and across sessions,

292
00:09:36,179 --> 00:09:37,609
we know that that is thematic,

293
00:09:37,659 --> 00:09:39,739
which means the child's going to work on that

294
00:09:40,130 --> 00:09:41,659
until they no longer need to work on it.

295
00:09:41,909 --> 00:09:44,099
So the fact that we've seen it 5 sessions in a row,

296
00:09:44,299 --> 00:09:47,599
we know your child is actively tackling power and control needs.

297
00:09:47,780 --> 00:09:51,159
That's exactly what we were hoping for when I met with you for the very first time.

298
00:09:52,890 --> 00:09:53,250
OK,

299
00:09:53,380 --> 00:09:55,640
a parent's going to want that information.

300
00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:58,719
It gives them reassurance that positive things are happening.

301
00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:01,280
But I don't need to spend

302
00:10:01,460 --> 00:10:03,030
all 5 of those sessions

303
00:10:03,179 --> 00:10:05,260
and 50 minutes times 5

304
00:10:05,739 --> 00:10:06,080
going,

305
00:10:06,539 --> 00:10:06,929
OK,

306
00:10:07,140 --> 00:10:09,799
so I need to figure out exactly what this theme is and what does this mean?

307
00:10:09,890 --> 00:10:10,179
And,

308
00:10:10,419 --> 00:10:12,679
and here's my final thought before I wrap up.

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Don't

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00:10:14,380 --> 00:10:15,280
make leaps.

311
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,059
Don't see play

312
00:10:18,359 --> 00:10:19,000
and go,

313
00:10:19,309 --> 00:10:19,989
oh,

314
00:10:20,359 --> 00:10:24,539
maybe that's the child's way of saying that he doesn't feel safe.

315
00:10:25,270 --> 00:10:25,840
And

316
00:10:26,140 --> 00:10:27,260
he doesn't feel safe.

317
00:10:27,380 --> 00:10:28,440
So therefore,

318
00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:29,039
when

319
00:10:29,340 --> 00:10:33,760
he puts a stuffed animal inside a coffin and buries it,

320
00:10:34,219 --> 00:10:35,359
that's actually

321
00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:36,119
safety,

322
00:10:36,219 --> 00:10:36,950
but then

323
00:10:37,130 --> 00:10:37,559
it's,

324
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:38,219
it's death,

325
00:10:38,229 --> 00:10:39,500
burial and resurrection,

326
00:10:39,580 --> 00:10:42,770
and that's obviously religious in nature because his family's religious,

327
00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:43,340
and

328
00:10:43,929 --> 00:10:47,119
all of a sudden we start weaving together stuff.

329
00:10:47,989 --> 00:10:49,619
We see something in play,

330
00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:52,880
and we make these grandiose leaps like,

331
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:53,239
oh,

332
00:10:53,349 --> 00:10:53,479
well,

333
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,059
that's probably the child showing me

334
00:10:56,239 --> 00:10:56,700
this,

335
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:57,380
or,

336
00:10:57,799 --> 00:10:58,000
you know,

337
00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:01,549
maybe the child is really trying to communicate at a,

338
00:11:01,599 --> 00:11:03,260
at a subconscious level

339
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:04,570
that they

340
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,059
feel inadequate.

341
00:11:06,239 --> 00:11:07,059
And so

342
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,820
when they drew with their finger in the sand and then wiped it all away,

343
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,140
it was their inadequacy.

344
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,950
Be really careful about doing that.

345
00:11:15,239 --> 00:11:19,179
That's a really common tendency that we have as CCPTs

346
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,179
because in grad school,

347
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,020
we're trained to

348
00:11:23,239 --> 00:11:24,460
think through subtlety.

349
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,260
We're trained to think and make connections.

350
00:11:27,630 --> 00:11:29,940
And when an adult says something to us,

351
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:31,200
we're often like,

352
00:11:31,309 --> 00:11:31,599
Oh,

353
00:11:31,719 --> 00:11:32,000
well,

354
00:11:32,039 --> 00:11:35,380
I wonder if you thought about how what you just said actually ties back to this.

355
00:11:35,799 --> 00:11:37,020
That's really helpful

356
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:38,140
clinical insight

357
00:11:38,469 --> 00:11:39,169
for an adult.

358
00:11:40,369 --> 00:11:42,460
Kids are experiential and emotional,

359
00:11:43,099 --> 00:11:44,770
and they're just working through their junk.

360
00:11:45,169 --> 00:11:46,929
They're not trying to give you messages.

361
00:11:47,090 --> 00:11:49,010
They're not trying to communicate and express,

362
00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:49,289
you know,

363
00:11:49,369 --> 00:11:51,080
all of these deep-seated things.

364
00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:53,409
They play out what they need to play out

365
00:11:53,409 --> 00:11:55,289
because they're addressing what they need to address.

366
00:11:56,239 --> 00:11:56,679
So,

367
00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:58,219
themes are very clear,

368
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,150
themes are recognizable,

369
00:12:00,359 --> 00:12:02,080
themes are identifiable.

370
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,780
Don't watch something and go,

371
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:05,599
oh,

372
00:12:06,039 --> 00:12:09,460
that probably could be possibly means

373
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,500
they're very concrete.

374
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,789
If you need to refresh yourself on themes,

375
00:12:13,869 --> 00:12:15,460
go back and listen to that series,

376
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,460
but please don't spend time and energy.

377
00:12:19,359 --> 00:12:21,820
Not only distracting yourself from working with the child,

378
00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:25,159
but also trying to kind of figure out how all of this stuff

379
00:12:25,159 --> 00:12:27,799
can weave together and like create a narrative out of the play.

380
00:12:28,239 --> 00:12:29,640
The play is just the play,

381
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,179
focus on the child.

382
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,200
The rest of it will sort itself out.

383
00:12:33,599 --> 00:12:36,400
You create environment and relationship as conditions,

384
00:12:36,719 --> 00:12:38,929
child will become a better version of him or herself,

385
00:12:39,039 --> 00:12:41,140
and child will work through what they need to work through.

386
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,320
Whether we recognize the symbolic play,

387
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,760
whether we recognize the theme,

388
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,599
whether we understand what's going on or not.

389
00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:48,929
Child is moving toward healing.

390
00:12:49,109 --> 00:12:49,830
We know that.

391
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:51,489
So we stay out of the way,

392
00:12:52,109 --> 00:12:53,650
though the rest of it is just

393
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:54,270
there,

394
00:12:54,549 --> 00:12:56,750
but certainly should not be the priority or the focus.

395
00:12:57,909 --> 00:12:58,409
All right,

396
00:12:58,590 --> 00:12:59,349
I love y'all.

397
00:12:59,469 --> 00:13:01,309
I hope that you have a great week.

398
00:13:02,450 --> 00:13:02,849
Email me,

399
00:13:02,929 --> 00:13:04,010
reach out if you would like to.

400
00:13:04,090 --> 00:13:04,890
I'd love to hear from you,

401
00:13:04,969 --> 00:13:06,330
brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

402
00:13:06,409 --> 00:13:06,690
By the way,

403
00:13:06,770 --> 00:13:07,809
I don't say this very often.

404
00:13:07,929 --> 00:13:09,909
If you haven't signed up for the email newsletter,

405
00:13:10,289 --> 00:13:11,469
every week I send out

406
00:13:12,049 --> 00:13:12,299
information.

407
00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:13,909
I send out some like thought

408
00:13:14,130 --> 00:13:17,750
stuff and then some testimonials from therapists around the world and

409
00:13:18,099 --> 00:13:20,659
Just kind of like one stop shop for all things CCPT.

410
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:23,900
So go to playtherapynow.com if you haven't signed up for the newsletter.

411
00:13:24,130 --> 00:13:25,739
If you haven't checked out the Collective,

412
00:13:26,140 --> 00:13:27,020
you can do that too.

413
00:13:27,270 --> 00:13:31,119
Online community of more than 200 CCPTs all over the world.

414
00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:33,619
And we hang out each week and we support each

415
00:13:33,619 --> 00:13:36,109
other with resources and consults and all things like that.

416
00:13:36,219 --> 00:13:36,539
So,

417
00:13:36,739 --> 00:13:38,679
that's also on playtherapynow.com

418
00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:41,700
That's pretty much where all things that I do live.

419
00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:42,890
So just go to playtherapynow.com

420
00:13:42,940 --> 00:13:44,229
You can find out what's going on.

421
00:13:44,539 --> 00:13:44,900
Love y'all.

422
00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:45,770
We'll talk again soon.

423
00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:46,219
Bye.

424
00:13:47,210 --> 00:13:51,000
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

425
00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:53,169
For more episodes and resources,

426
00:13:53,330 --> 00:13:58,090
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.