Fair Housing for All

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- Welcome to the Advocacy Scoop,
the podcast that takes you

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inside the advocacy work
of the National Association

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of Realtors connecting NAR members

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with their advocates in
Washington for a front row seat

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to the fight for public policy
that strengthens the ability

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of Americans to access property ownership.

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- Hello everyone. Welcome back

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to the Advocacy Scoop podcast.

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I'm Patrick Newton here
with Shannon McGahn.

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And Shannon, it is the
first week of April,

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and so we know what that
means here at NAR. It is

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- Fair Housing Month.

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- That is right April.

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So we launched the
podcast last year in May,

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so we had just missed fair housing month.

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This is sort of the last in
our series of primers that we,

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we wanted to do covering
like all the different areas

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of NA's advocacy.

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So our goal for this episode is

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to talk about Fair Housing
Month, why we commemorated,

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and all the different things

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that we do in the fair
housing space at NAR

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because it is a lot.

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And I, I think, you know,

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our members might not
actually realize just

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how much we do in this space.

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And so I will tell you, I
came here six years ago, one

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of the things that knocked me
over when I came in the door,

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as I first heard this fact

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that the racial home
ownership gap between black

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and white Americans was 30 points.

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And that is the same
as it was 60 years ago

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before the Fair Housing Act was passed.

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And that just sort of shook me to my core.

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- Oh, absolutely. And when
I joined in October of 2018

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and digging into all of our issues

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and seeing that throughout
the history of home ownership,

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home ownership in America
hasn't always been

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accessible to all.

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We've made progress with laws
like the Fair Housing Act,

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but there's a lot more
that we can be doing.

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And realtors work day in and day out,

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and our organization does.

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And while April, we do
commemorate Fair Housing month,

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we work year round with fair
housing groups and experts

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and our own members to make
sure that we are unlocking doors

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and unleashing those opportunities

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to change lives through home ownership.

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- And one of the first
things I did when I came

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to NAR when we all did
it, the entire staff did

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that year it came out.

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But we took Fairhaven and
it's sort of a, a simulation,

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and I, I'm a skeptic.

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I went into taking Fairhaven
thinking like, I, I know

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what discrimination is,
I can see it a mile away.

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And it was really enlightening

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because there were times
where you sit there

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and you look at this scenario
that's presented to you and,

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and, and it's, it's not

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as straightforward as
that you think it is.

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It covers, I think, you know,
outright discrimination,

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but also bias and, and implicit bias

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and things like that as well.

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So it's just a really cool
tool that we've developed.

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- Absolutely. And to all of
our listeners out there, first,

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thank you for listening to
the advocacy Scoop podcast,

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and we are glad you're
joining us for this episode.

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But also, please check out Fairhaven,

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we actually changed our code of ethics

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to require Fair Housing training

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and Fairhaven is one of the programs

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that qualifies for that.

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So if you have not committed
to checking out Fairhaven

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yet, please do that.

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It's an amazing resource to
learn where there are these,

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these barriers and

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where discrimination still
exists within the industry.

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- And we just launched
the second version of it,

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Fairhaven 2.0.

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So if you've taken the
first one, it's good

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to try the second one as well.

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And we'll have, we'll give
you the scoop on some fair

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and numbers at the end
of the episode as well

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because it just launched and
the numbers are very positive.

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But one of the really special
features of Fairhaven is that,

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you know, it puts you in
the position of a client

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who was stopped from buying a house

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because of discrimination.

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And the goal there was to sort

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of elicit an emotional
reaction in the learner

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to open up the learner to
perspectives that they,

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they hadn't encountered in a sort

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of evoke empathy and behavior change.

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And, you know, this is our, our
first episode of the podcast

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where we have a chaperone sitting
just a few feet from us is

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Alexia Smoker from our Fair Housing team

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who worked on Fairhaven

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and helped us put this
episode together to make sure

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that we covered all the
different areas of fair housing

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that we have going on here at NAR.

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- Alexia, thank you for joining us today

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and for all of the great work
that you have done preparing

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for this podcast and the
creation of Fairhaven.

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So Patrick, when we started
late 2018 or early 2019,

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and then it was soon

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after that that we saw the
Newsday investigation break.

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And it was devastating to
read and very eye-opening

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because we were new to
the industry, new to NAR

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and then seeing that these
reports coming out, that in,

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in this day and age that there
were steering practices and,

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and other practices that
were coming to light.

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And right before

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that article broke Joe Vent
tron on our team had been

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working to hire a new director
of Fair Housing, Brian Green,

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who joined us from decades
of service at Housing

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and Urban Development, running
the Fair Housing Programs

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and Enforcement over there.

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And so we were so lucky
that we had Brian to help

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with navigating through understanding

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where our members need the best training,

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the best resources, best
understanding on how to market,

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how best to avoid steering when talking

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to clients about
neighborhoods and schools.

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And then Fairhaven and Alexia's
leadership there too was

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developed out of that.

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It is a free online tool.

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There are many options

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that will satisfy the
mandatory Fair Housing

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training in the code of ethics.

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But Fairhaven that
launched in 2025, the 2.0

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as Patrick said, is a great one

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and we would encourage
you to check it out.

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- Some other interesting
news is just a few weeks ago,

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our 2025 snapshot of Race

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and Home Buying in
America report came out.

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This is a report that we do every year

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and there was some sort of
good news in it in the sense

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that the black home ownership
rate experienced the greatest

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year over year increase among
racial groups last year.

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So, so that is a, that
that's some good news.

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It's moving in the right direction.

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But the bad news is, is
like we just mentioned,

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it still falls significantly

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behind the white home ownership
rate, which is at about 72%.

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And the black home
ownership rate is at 44.7%.

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So still a ways to go.

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We do this report,

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the Real Estate Market
Intelligence Report put out

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by our research team and, and,

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and they track, you know,
who's entering the US housing

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market and how different
demographics are experiencing the

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affordability issue as well.

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So it's a really important report, one

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of our signature research
reports that we do every year.

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But I wanted to mention that

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and so that we could start
with a simple question,

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which is why is the home
ownership gap so large, Shannon,

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like the between white
and black Americans?

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And also, I don't wanna leave out as well,

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we also track the Asian
home ownership rates 63%

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and Hispanic is at 51%.

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So still below the white rate,

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but a little bit above
the black ownership rate.

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But why is the gap so large?

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- Thank you for bringing
up that report and Dr.

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Jessica Laz, Dr. Lawrence
Yoon on our research team

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who work year round on making sure

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that while our advocacy is
looking at federal and state

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and local public policies
that we can do to change this,

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we need to have the best
research and information

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and knowledge to share with policy makers.

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And that report is a great example of

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what we work with each day.

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So before the Fair Housing Act,

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massive federal programs were
invested in home ownership,

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tens of millions of Americans
became homeowners thanks

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to government programs
that were implemented

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after the Great Depression.

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And what we're aware of, you know,

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the veterans returning from World War ii,

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these programs were
racially restricted and

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provided billions of
dollars in federal backing

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for housing developments.

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And the mortgages were
often segregated into white,

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mostly suburban neighborhoods.

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So by the time the Fair Housing
Act made these practices

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illegal, you've already
seen tens of millions

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of American families who were able

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to get equity outta their homes, you know,

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build up that nest egg.

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And many others had been
prevented from doing that.

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So folks were being left behind
housing prices, as we know.

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They seemed to very consistently go up.

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But can you imagine if you
were purchasing a home right

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after World War ii and then
just the amount of equity

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and investment that you would
have in that decades later.

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And there were wide parts of the country

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who weren't even able
to have access to that.

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So very, very problematic

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and something that we're
still managing today with

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that generational wealth aspect of it.

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- And, and, and they made
up some ground in the two

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thousands, like the early two thousands,

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and then we had the crash.

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- Yes, yes. And we, we know that, that

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that generational wealth gap at compounds,

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the Federal Reserve as late
as 2022, put out a report

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that showed that the average
homeowner had more than

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$400,000 in assets

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and that the average renter
had $10,000 in assets.

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So that is a very big difference.

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And then if you see
that wealth compounding

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for a family throughout
entire sectors of our society

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and our economy, that makes
for a very big difference.

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And with the financial
crisis in 2008, nine,

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the subprime loans that were
disproportionately targeting,

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primarily black and Hispanic
borrowers, many of those

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who could have qualified for prime loans

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but were receiving those subprime loans,

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that was another factor in
that wealth just disappearing.

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- So we just, the gap just never,

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never came back from the, the crash.

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Like we, it pretty much
snapped us back to,

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to the starting point as far
as that, which is, you know,

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one, one of the reasons why, you know,

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you made fair housing one

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of our top three advocacy
priorities pretty much

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every year since you've been here.

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- Exactly. And, and even, you know,

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today there's less overt
discrimination, the work that we do

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as an industry and that
realtors do around the country,

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making sure that we're rooting out any of

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that discrimination and unfair practices.

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Families may have higher incomes now too,

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but if you lack that generational wealth

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and the experience of your
family having home ownership,

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if you had grandparents who owned a home

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and parents who owned a home

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and the ability to tap into
that equity for education

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and for investments, if that's
missing for a large number

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of Americans, that barrier
to entry becomes too high.

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- Yeah. And, and, and wealth
compounds, as Alexia put it

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to me, you know, yesterday
when we were just discussing

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this, it's just, it compounds

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and when you've been, you're shut outta

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that from square one.

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You need a little help to get caught up

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into an equal playing field, you know,

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so we've talked about
the home ownership gap,

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but getting back into the,
to the fair housing issue,

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another simple question
about fair housing,

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00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,110
'cause we hear that word all the time and,

253
00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:54,090
and some folks might
understand fully what it means.

254
00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:57,570
So, so tell us, fair, fair
Housing for one is the law

255
00:09:57,570 --> 00:09:58,570
- Exactly.

256
00:09:58,570 --> 00:10:01,980
It it is the law. We are
the world's largest private

257
00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:03,480
property rights organization

258
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,090
and we support private
property rights for all.

259
00:10:06,090 --> 00:10:08,040
And that means that you
have the ability to buy

260
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,100
and sell property without
this unlawful discrimination.

261
00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:13,650
And that's exactly what our
members fight for every day.

262
00:10:13,650 --> 00:10:15,000
So generations of home buyers

263
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,160
who have missed out on those
home ownership opportunities

264
00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:18,900
that could have been afforded,

265
00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:21,540
now their descendants are
starting out a little bit behind.

266
00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:23,250
And then we're trying to find out

267
00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:25,230
where there are those barriers to entry

268
00:10:25,230 --> 00:10:28,170
and where we can make sure
that we are proactively pushing

269
00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:29,580
for federal, state,

270
00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:32,790
and local policies that will
help more people understand the

271
00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:34,260
American dream of home ownership

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00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:37,320
and help build their families
through home ownership.

273
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:38,880
So right now you have black

274
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,190
and Hispanic buyers are twice as likely

275
00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:43,950
to be first time buyers as others.

276
00:10:43,950 --> 00:10:45,900
And so we are trying to make
sure that there are ways

277
00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:47,340
to communicate, educate,

278
00:10:47,340 --> 00:10:50,280
and inform folks on how to
get into home ownership.

279
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,590
- And it's essentially, you
know, consumer protection.

280
00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:55,410
- Oh, exactly. Fair housing
is consumer protection.

281
00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:56,700
It is federal, state

282
00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:58,920
and local laws that
protect consumer's right.

283
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,020
To access housing
without being turned away

284
00:11:01,020 --> 00:11:03,605
because of their personal
characteristics and,

285
00:11:03,605 --> 00:11:05,910
- And, and what personal
characteristics are

286
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:07,680
covered by the Fair Housing Act.

287
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:11,520
- A person's race, color,
national origin, religion,

288
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,250
whether they have a disability,
children in the family,

289
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:16,380
their sex including sexual orientation

290
00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:19,260
or gender identity are all
personal characteristics

291
00:11:19,260 --> 00:11:21,060
that are covered in fair housing laws.

292
00:11:21,060 --> 00:11:23,730
- And it's illegal to deny
someone housing in America due

293
00:11:23,730 --> 00:11:25,290
to any of those characteristics.

294
00:11:25,290 --> 00:11:27,780
And that includes all different
types of, of housing Right.

295
00:11:27,780 --> 00:11:28,830
- Services. Exactly. And the,

296
00:11:28,830 --> 00:11:31,440
the Fair Housing Act prohibits
discrimination in housing

297
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,870
related services too,
like mortgage lending,

298
00:11:33,870 --> 00:11:36,240
property insurance and appraisals.

299
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,860
So in America, and especially
in what we do as realtors,

300
00:11:40,860 --> 00:11:42,750
we believe no one should be denied housing

301
00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:43,980
because of who they are.

302
00:11:43,980 --> 00:11:46,530
And we're the largest private
property rights organization

303
00:11:46,530 --> 00:11:48,330
and we protect private property rights

304
00:11:48,330 --> 00:11:50,400
and the ability of people to purchase

305
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,630
and sell that property

306
00:11:51,630 --> 00:11:53,860
around every single one of these laws.

307
00:11:53,860 --> 00:11:56,440
And we also support
increase in many of these

308
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,690
and making sure that our
code of ethics applies

309
00:11:58,690 --> 00:11:59,890
as well as the fair housing laws.

310
00:11:59,890 --> 00:12:01,120
- Alright. And, and Shannon,

311
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,785
so we hear the phrase DEIA
lot, especially right now.

312
00:12:03,785 --> 00:12:05,680
So I just wanna ask you
bluntly like is Fair

313
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:07,750
housing the same thing as DEI?

314
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:08,800
- That's a great question.

315
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,310
When we get a lot and no
Fair Housing is a federal law

316
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:15,160
that protects consumers from
housing discrimination state

317
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,710
and local jurisdictions often
add additional fair housing

318
00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:19,060
protections to their laws.

319
00:12:19,060 --> 00:12:21,610
And all housing industry
participants must abide

320
00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:24,430
by fair housing laws, which
are enforced by the federal,

321
00:12:24,430 --> 00:12:26,680
state and local governments as well as

322
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,060
through private litigants.

323
00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:30,850
It's also important to note
that the realtor code of ethics,

324
00:12:30,850 --> 00:12:33,010
as we mentioned before, pledges realtors

325
00:12:33,010 --> 00:12:35,800
to provide equal professional
service to all customers

326
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,230
and clients regardless of their identity.

327
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:39,880
- And Shannon, I'm glad
you mentioned the code

328
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,710
of ethics there because
you know, that brings me

329
00:12:41,710 --> 00:12:45,130
to my next question of why NAR supports

330
00:12:45,130 --> 00:12:46,510
and our members support fair housing.

331
00:12:46,510 --> 00:12:47,830
So robustly

332
00:12:47,830 --> 00:12:49,090
- Realtors believe in a free

333
00:12:49,090 --> 00:12:51,310
and open marketplace
where buyers and sellers

334
00:12:51,310 --> 00:12:54,460
and realtors can all engage in
housing transactions without

335
00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:57,310
any artificial barriers or constraints.

336
00:12:57,310 --> 00:13:00,100
And any discrimination will
distort the marketplace

337
00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,050
and it keeps qualified
buyers out of homes.

338
00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:03,940
There's also studies out there showing,

339
00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:06,760
I think the most recent ones
from 2020 by Morgan Stanley,

340
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,000
that discrimination and
mortgage lending results in lack

341
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,800
of access to home ownership.

342
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,470
And it costs nearly 800,000 jobs

343
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:17,410
and $400 billion in tax revenue.

344
00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:20,320
And they even estimated it
could cost nearly 5 million

345
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:21,730
people from owning homes.

346
00:13:21,730 --> 00:13:23,740
So it's not just that it's
important for the economy,

347
00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:26,560
but it's important for
our realtors to be able

348
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,150
to do their business and to abide

349
00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:30,370
by our strict code of ethics.

350
00:13:30,370 --> 00:13:33,340
According to code of ethics,
realtors quote should recognize

351
00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:34,780
that the interest of the nation

352
00:13:34,780 --> 00:13:36,790
and its citizens require the highest

353
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:38,050
and best use of the land

354
00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:40,930
and the widest distribution
of land ownership.

355
00:13:40,930 --> 00:13:43,900
So as homeowners of the future
become increasingly diverse,

356
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:46,750
it makes good business sense
for realtors to be willing

357
00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:48,640
and able to serve all customers no

358
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:49,840
matter what their background.

359
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,450
And it is the law and
it is what we stand for.

360
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,550
- So let's quickly tick through some

361
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:56,080
of our fair housing policy like

362
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,790
priorities and our successes.

363
00:13:57,790 --> 00:14:00,190
'cause really we added sexual orientation

364
00:14:00,190 --> 00:14:02,230
and gender identity as a prohibited basis

365
00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:06,130
for discrimination t code of
ethics like over 10 years ago.

366
00:14:06,130 --> 00:14:08,170
We support the Fair and Equal Housing Act,

367
00:14:08,170 --> 00:14:10,660
which would add these protected classes

368
00:14:10,660 --> 00:14:12,400
to the Fair Housing Act itself.

369
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,770
So that's something that
we're supporting in Congress.

370
00:14:14,770 --> 00:14:16,780
- Well, and something that
I'm especially proud of

371
00:14:16,780 --> 00:14:20,140
that our members, so it was back in 2009

372
00:14:20,140 --> 00:14:21,460
so I don't wanna do the math,

373
00:14:21,460 --> 00:14:24,730
but more than 10 years ago
there changed the code of ethics

374
00:14:24,730 --> 00:14:26,860
to make sure that sexual orientation

375
00:14:26,860 --> 00:14:29,110
and gender identity were included.

376
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:31,810
Then we have supported for
congress to, you know, catch up

377
00:14:31,810 --> 00:14:32,890
with our code of ethics

378
00:14:32,890 --> 00:14:36,490
and to create federal housing
laws that would include that

379
00:14:36,490 --> 00:14:37,750
as protected class.

380
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:40,420
And then we have also seen
the Supreme Court follow

381
00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:42,040
what I would consider our lead there

382
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,050
and include sexual orientation

383
00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:45,640
and gender identity through the Bostock

384
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,290
decision back in 2020.

385
00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:50,200
So we are still encouraging
Congress fighting

386
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,090
for this be codified in federal law,

387
00:14:53,090 --> 00:14:55,430
but it's important to note
that realtors have been abiding

388
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:56,960
by that since 2009.

389
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,780
- Yeah. And we, we talk about
fair housing enforcement

390
00:14:59,780 --> 00:15:01,670
and something that stuck
with me is that, you know,

391
00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:03,440
we have more than a million members

392
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:04,850
and they live in every zip code

393
00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:06,830
and work in every zip code in America.

394
00:15:06,830 --> 00:15:09,920
And it's sort of like a fair
housing army on the ground

395
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,000
in every community.

396
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,800
They receive this amazing training

397
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,090
with all these great tools

398
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:16,700
that our Fair housing team
comes up with way beyond sort

399
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:18,290
of like what's required by law.

400
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:20,120
- And we have long said to policy makers

401
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,730
and others that they have no
greater partner in fair housing

402
00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:24,290
enforcement than realtors.

403
00:15:24,290 --> 00:15:26,750
But I like your Fair Housing
army argument even better.

404
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:29,210
- Yeah, I mean if you think
about that, I mean this is,

405
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:30,590
this is the federal government doesn't

406
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:32,000
require for housing training.

407
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,620
I mean that's, that's coming from us.

408
00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:34,970
This is, this is the code of ethics.

409
00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:37,040
This is why you're a member
of NAR where you're held

410
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,230
to this higher ethical standard

411
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,420
and you get this amazing training.

412
00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:43,940
And you know, it's, it's, it's,

413
00:15:43,940 --> 00:15:45,950
it gives me chill bumps when
I think about it, honestly.

414
00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:47,510
- And many states don't even require it.

415
00:15:47,510 --> 00:15:50,660
So that's why it's important
that realtors when abiding

416
00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:52,760
by the code of ethics, that
they go through this training

417
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,590
that's mandatory starting this year.

418
00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:58,010
- Oh, well some of the other
things we support, you know,

419
00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:00,830
down payment assistance,
credit scoring reforms, other,

420
00:16:00,830 --> 00:16:02,630
other policies like
this in Congress, right?

421
00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:04,460
- Sure. And we also support full funding

422
00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:06,650
of the HUD Fair Housing
Initiatives program,

423
00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:08,870
which funds local fair
housing organizations

424
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:11,480
and communities across the
country to conduct education,

425
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,370
outreach and enforcement.

426
00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:15,590
Enforcement of fair
housing laws is difficult.

427
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:17,510
Oftentimes we don't know
what's happening until

428
00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:19,550
after the fact and then
it might be too late

429
00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:21,140
for someone to be in that home.

430
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:23,780
So we have to do proactive testing

431
00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:26,690
and understanding what's
happening within communities in

432
00:16:26,690 --> 00:16:28,610
order to root it out before it happens.

433
00:16:28,610 --> 00:16:31,130
- And, and you mentioned, you
know, just a second ago this,

434
00:16:31,130 --> 00:16:32,750
you set me up for my
next question perfectly,

435
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:34,550
that NAR has also supported

436
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:36,890
for housing advancements
at the state level.

437
00:16:36,890 --> 00:16:39,560
And we conducted a study of all 50 states

438
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,320
and found that half didn't
require for housing training

439
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:43,520
for a real estate license.

440
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:44,630
And so our board

441
00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:47,840
of directors adopted
policies urging the states

442
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,525
to adopt stronger for housing training.

443
00:16:49,525 --> 00:16:52,910
And, and seven states have
increased their requirements

444
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:54,530
since we passed that policy.

445
00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:56,120
So that's that's pretty cool.

446
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,090
- Exactly. That's the
realtor advocacy at work

447
00:16:59,090 --> 00:17:01,580
and will continue to
make advancements there.

448
00:17:01,580 --> 00:17:02,840
As we've already covered, our board

449
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,610
of directors also decided if you're going

450
00:17:04,610 --> 00:17:06,200
to call yourself a realtor, no matter

451
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,910
what your state law requires,

452
00:17:07,910 --> 00:17:09,440
you must have fair housing training.

453
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,510
So that's what went into effect this year.

454
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:14,690
And on the state level, we
urged our state associations

455
00:17:14,690 --> 00:17:17,540
to support a law that would
protect due process rights

456
00:17:17,540 --> 00:17:19,430
of heirs property owners.

457
00:17:19,430 --> 00:17:21,920
So heirs properties created
when descendants inherit

458
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,810
property without a will.

459
00:17:23,810 --> 00:17:26,600
So if grandma leaves the
house to her children

460
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,640
and there's no will in place,

461
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,320
then they're taking over that property.

462
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,470
And over generations of inheritance
ownership can be divided

463
00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:35,270
among dozens of heirs.

464
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:37,730
So this will clouds the title

465
00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:41,510
and leave owners vulnerable
to forced sale or eviction.

466
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:43,490
Our state associations have stepped up

467
00:17:43,490 --> 00:17:45,680
to protect the property rights of heirs

468
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:46,850
by supporting state laws

469
00:17:46,850 --> 00:17:48,560
that would avoid a sheriff's auction

470
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,310
or to allow the sale of their home

471
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:52,440
and make sure that if it is
sold, that it can be done

472
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,090
by a real estate broker.

473
00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:57,150
Since NAR endorsed the law,
six states have enacted the law

474
00:17:57,150 --> 00:17:59,490
for a total of 26 around the country.

475
00:17:59,490 --> 00:18:03,720
- Amazing. The, the work
that we do changes state law

476
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,210
and local law and just
our endorsement, you know,

477
00:18:06,210 --> 00:18:07,920
has the ability to move that needle.

478
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,920
So that's amazing. Well, you
said Bostock I think a couple

479
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,150
of times during this episode,

480
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:15,300
but we haven't really spoken
much about what Bostock is.

481
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:17,280
So let's, let's get into that

482
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,500
because this was a Supreme Court decision,

483
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:21,090
but it affected fair housing.

484
00:18:21,090 --> 00:18:24,120
- Oh, exactly. So this was a
2020 Supreme Court decision

485
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,270
that relates to the Civil Rights
Act in 1964 in particular.

486
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:30,810
But because the concern contained
the same language, quote

487
00:18:30,810 --> 00:18:32,220
because of sex quote,

488
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:33,810
they can be interpreted in the same way.

489
00:18:33,810 --> 00:18:35,670
So fair Housing and the Civil Rights Act

490
00:18:35,670 --> 00:18:37,410
and employment discrimination, all

491
00:18:37,410 --> 00:18:39,390
of those laws were passed in the 1960s

492
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:42,690
and according to the Supreme
Court are considered similarly.

493
00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:45,840
So since that ruling, at
least two circuit courts

494
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,430
of appeals have acknowledged

495
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:49,290
that this interpretation applies

496
00:18:49,290 --> 00:18:52,140
to the Fair Housing Act
under President Biden,

497
00:18:52,140 --> 00:18:56,070
his administration issued an
executive order to enforce this

498
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:58,260
through their HUD efforts and
through the administration.

499
00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:00,240
So the civil rights laws
would be enforced in

500
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,470
the Biden administration.

501
00:19:01,470 --> 00:19:02,490
HUD has done so,

502
00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:03,600
and I think it's continued

503
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,360
to some other agencies on
President Trump's first day in

504
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,040
office, he repealed the executive order.

505
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,680
So it's unclear how HUD
will interpret Bostock now,

506
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,720
but we do know that it is the law.

507
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,250
So what happens under Bostock is

508
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:17,700
that a private litigant can
still bring sexual orientation

509
00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:19,080
cases under that theory,

510
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,960
but it's just unclear how it
will fare in federal court,

511
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,340
but likely it will depend on the

512
00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:24,780
circuit that it's brought in.

513
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:27,150
- Okay, Shannon. So you
know that old expression,

514
00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:28,710
you're judged by the company you keep

515
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:30,510
or something along those lines.

516
00:19:30,510 --> 00:19:33,480
And so one of the things that
I love about NAR is all the

517
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,750
partnerships and collaboration
that we undergo, like,

518
00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:38,400
especially in the fair housing space.

519
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,160
'cause we, we have so many
partners in this work.

520
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,010
- Oh, absolutely. And
teamwork makes the dream work.

521
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:46,770
And we have many friends
and partners throughout DC

522
00:19:46,770 --> 00:19:48,030
and the advocacy community

523
00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:50,430
to help encourage fair housing enforcement

524
00:19:50,430 --> 00:19:53,460
and to open the doors of
home ownership to more.

525
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:56,490
One of the, we're a founding member

526
00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:58,320
of an organization called the Black Home

527
00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:59,550
Ownership Collaborative.

528
00:19:59,550 --> 00:20:03,450
And their website, three
by thirty.org is designed

529
00:20:03,450 --> 00:20:05,550
to look at all of the
different policy initiatives

530
00:20:05,550 --> 00:20:08,010
that could be changed to open
up more black home ownership

531
00:20:08,010 --> 00:20:09,300
by the year 2030.

532
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:10,320
We're in good company.

533
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,590
We've got friends like the
Mortgage Bankers Association,

534
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:15,150
the National Fair Housing Alliance,

535
00:20:15,150 --> 00:20:16,350
the National Urban League,

536
00:20:16,350 --> 00:20:19,380
and others all working to help
close that home ownership gap

537
00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:21,630
and looking at very common sense policies

538
00:20:21,630 --> 00:20:23,520
that could be enacted around the country.

539
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,560
Another group that
we've been involved with

540
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,550
for many years is the
MLK Memorial Foundation.

541
00:20:29,550 --> 00:20:31,980
We are founding
contributors to the building

542
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:34,200
of the MLK Memorial on the mall.

543
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,910
And we continue to
partner with them on these

544
00:20:35,910 --> 00:20:37,470
programming and events.

545
00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:39,870
- And our, our name is on
the memorial ride as a,

546
00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:41,130
as an original sponsor.

547
00:20:41,130 --> 00:20:42,780
And that will be there forever.

548
00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:44,910
I mean that is was such a,

549
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:46,920
a special thing to get to be a part of

550
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:47,920
- It very special.

551
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,950
And that partnership and, and
those relationships continue.

552
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:53,800
We also work with several
local fair housing centers

553
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,050
and many real estate multicultural groups,

554
00:20:56,050 --> 00:20:57,610
including the National Association

555
00:20:57,610 --> 00:20:59,710
of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals,

556
00:20:59,710 --> 00:21:02,350
the Asian Real Estate
Association of America,

557
00:21:02,350 --> 00:21:04,810
the National Association
of Real Estate Brokers,

558
00:21:04,810 --> 00:21:07,180
the L-G-B-T-Q Real Estate Alliance.

559
00:21:07,180 --> 00:21:09,160
- And there's a lot
that our members can do

560
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,390
to promote fair housing.

561
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:13,270
So maybe Shannon, especially
in the grant space, let's sort

562
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:15,760
of tick through some of these
because there's lots of ways

563
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,250
as a member of NER you can
implement Fair Housing best

564
00:21:18,250 --> 00:21:19,600
practices in your business

565
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,340
and we provide a lot of those tools.

566
00:21:21,340 --> 00:21:23,950
- Exactly. And yes, while,
while we have you listening here

567
00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:26,920
to the advocacy Scoop podcast,
here are some best practices

568
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,540
for how you can promote fair housing.

569
00:21:28,540 --> 00:21:30,220
You can implement Fair Housing best

570
00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:31,810
practices in your business.

571
00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:35,290
The key is to create processes
like a checklist to ensure

572
00:21:35,290 --> 00:21:37,690
that you are treating each
customer with the same level

573
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:39,880
of care, concern and service.

574
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,130
You can familiarize yourself with local

575
00:21:42,130 --> 00:21:44,200
and state fair housing
enforcement agencies.

576
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,850
So if you do see a client

577
00:21:45,850 --> 00:21:48,400
who is experiencing discrimination,

578
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,810
you have someone on speed dial

579
00:21:49,810 --> 00:21:52,060
and you can immediately
direct it to the right person.

580
00:21:52,060 --> 00:21:54,070
You can learn about
your local down payment

581
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:55,540
and buyer assistance programs.

582
00:21:55,540 --> 00:21:58,540
And the lenders who will
work with them get acquainted

583
00:21:58,540 --> 00:22:01,420
with your local HUD
certified housing counselor.

584
00:22:01,420 --> 00:22:02,470
They're there for a reason.

585
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:03,670
They're there to make sure that these,

586
00:22:03,670 --> 00:22:04,960
these laws are being enforced

587
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,720
and that we have access
to all of these programs.

588
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,240
And then we talked about
Fairhaven. Please do Fairhaven,

589
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,460
- I mean is is it Fairhaven a sponsor

590
00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:14,170
of our podcast that we keep,

591
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:15,525
- We're a sponsor of Fairhaven.

592
00:22:15,525 --> 00:22:18,490
- That's right. And we
also have an, in addition

593
00:22:18,490 --> 00:22:20,650
to Fairhaven, we have another
really cool training tool

594
00:22:20,650 --> 00:22:24,430
that also satisfies your
training requirement as a member.

595
00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:26,680
But it's the bias override training

596
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,870
that which overcomes
barriers to fair housing.

597
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:31,060
- Yes. This training helps
real estate professionals

598
00:22:31,060 --> 00:22:33,160
to interrupt that stereotypical thinking

599
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,530
so you can avoid any of
these fair housing pitfalls

600
00:22:35,530 --> 00:22:37,990
and provide equal professional service

601
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:40,120
to every customer, every client.

602
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:42,400
And just learn more about
the way the mind works

603
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,410
and how the science of identity

604
00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:47,530
and implicit bias can result
in fair housing violations

605
00:22:47,530 --> 00:22:50,170
and how you can better
engage with, with clients

606
00:22:50,170 --> 00:22:52,510
and understand that
these could be problems.

607
00:22:52,510 --> 00:22:55,270
And so we are making these
assumptions about people we can

608
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:56,650
run into fair housing problems.

609
00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:58,420
And so that's why this
training is so important

610
00:22:58,420 --> 00:22:59,740
and we would encourage you to look at

611
00:22:59,740 --> 00:23:01,180
that in addition to Fairhaven.

612
00:23:01,180 --> 00:23:02,320
- Yeah. And we also have lots

613
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,690
of Fair housing grants
that we offer our members.

614
00:23:04,690 --> 00:23:07,060
And I wanna, I got some fresh
information this morning

615
00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:08,680
'cause I'll brag on my team a little bit.

616
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,330
Christine Wendell, who's over our state

617
00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:14,710
and local grants in
2024 out of 2.8 million

618
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:17,170
of our community advocacy outreach grants

619
00:23:17,170 --> 00:23:20,290
772,000 were fair housing.

620
00:23:20,290 --> 00:23:23,140
So it is by far our largest local grant.

621
00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:26,440
And so that just shows you
the demand for that grant.

622
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,420
So that's, that's a pretty neat fact.

623
00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:30,850
- Oh, rest, we have realtors
on the ground enforcing fair

624
00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:34,420
housing in every zip code and
many of these, these grants

625
00:23:34,420 --> 00:23:36,040
and these different programs help.

626
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,340
I also heard that there were
99 classes last year including

627
00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:42,490
book clubs and trivia
nights and conferences

628
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:45,650
and advocacy efforts for
fair housing priorities. So

629
00:23:45,650 --> 00:23:48,650
- Yeah, check out our, check
out our realtor party website

630
00:23:48,650 --> 00:23:50,930
and our realtor party resource guide and,

631
00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:53,420
and think about applying
for one of these grants

632
00:23:53,420 --> 00:23:56,810
because we've had 154
Fair housing applications

633
00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:58,890
so far this year and,

634
00:23:58,890 --> 00:24:02,240
and right about up until this week.

635
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,180
So they're in high demand. So. All right.

636
00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:09,290
Well Shannon, it's about
that time it is closing time

637
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:12,140
when it's Fair Housing month.

638
00:24:12,140 --> 00:24:14,600
So I am assuming you're
gonna give us a scoop on some

639
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,950
Fair Housing stats.

640
00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:18,680
- Sure. Well first off, we have
a fair housing month toolkit

641
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,810
provided for members and associations

642
00:24:20,810 --> 00:24:23,000
to help share their
commitment to fair housing.

643
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,660
So be on the lookout for the
poster Social media graphics,

644
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:29,510
book recommendations, film
recommendations, all things

645
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:31,730
to help commemorate Fair Housing Month.

646
00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:34,520
NAR is hosting two fair
housing month events.

647
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,440
So we'll have more to report on that.

648
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,190
And then we also have Fairhaven
2.0 launched in February

649
00:24:40,190 --> 00:24:42,230
and pleased to report
that the number of members

650
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:44,600
who have completed that more than Doubled.

651
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,710
So with these efforts,

652
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:48,170
we can ensure Fair Housing
Opportunities for All

653
00:24:48,170 --> 00:24:51,350
by continuing to
challenge unfair practices

654
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:53,180
and education is key.

655
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:56,300
Please use all of these
resources that, that we work on,

656
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,220
that our, our coalition partners or state

657
00:24:58,220 --> 00:25:00,710
and local associations use these resources

658
00:25:00,710 --> 00:25:02,540
to learn more about the rights

659
00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:04,340
of all under the Fair Housing Act

660
00:25:04,340 --> 00:25:06,500
and how more can access home ownership.

661
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:08,510
- Well that was a great
way to end the episode

662
00:25:08,510 --> 00:25:11,540
and thank you, Shannon
from your insight on

663
00:25:11,540 --> 00:25:13,160
NAR and Fair Housing.

664
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,630
So that's the scoop. Thank you

665
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:16,670
to everyone listening to this podcast.

666
00:25:16,670 --> 00:25:17,870
Please be sure to subscribe

667
00:25:17,870 --> 00:25:20,180
and share wherever you get your podcast.

668
00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:22,280
And meet us right back
here for more advocacy

669
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,300
- Scoop
- Next time.

670
00:25:24,620 --> 00:25:27,830
- Realtors are members of
the National Association

671
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:28,663
of Realtors.