Self Development - How You Can Overcome Self-Doubt and Achieve Your Goals w/ Laura Gassner Otting

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<v Speaker 1>When my publisher texted me and said number two, right behind Michelle Obama Washington Post bestseller list, all I could think of was number two.

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<v Speaker 1>What does it take to be number one?

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<v Speaker 2>Laura Gassner-Otting.

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<v Speaker 2>She delivers in spades.

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<v Speaker 2>Success, happiness, wonder.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna go through all the different stages of how success happens, and how it happens for you, my favorite, eleanor.

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<v Speaker 1>Roosevelt quote is we would worry much less about what other people thought about us if we realized how seldomly they did.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get into success with Laura Gassner-Harnick.

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<v Speaker 2>So, laura, what's your definition then of success?

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<v Speaker 1>So I get asked this question a lot, as you might imagine, given what I talk about, and for me, I think there are two numbers there's the need to make number and there is the want to make number.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think the need to make number is how much money we need for our mortgage, put our kids in school, food on the table, vacations, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>But the want to make number is like how fancy are the vacations going to be?

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<v Speaker 1>How many are you going to take?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you giving back to your community?

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<v Speaker 1>How often so?

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<v Speaker 1>For me, my.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you giving back to your community?

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<v Speaker 1>How often so?

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<v Speaker 1>For me, my definition of success is that everything in between the need to make number and the want to make number comes purely out of joy and curiosity and not out of the ego.

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<v Speaker 2>Dang, how did you get there, like, I'm sure, as a 20 year old girl?

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<v Speaker 1>starting out in the careers and study and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you get to that definition?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, some of it is because I made my way through the F40s as my grandmother used to call them.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm 53 now, so I've been around the block a few times, I've raised teenagers who are now in college.

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<v Speaker 1>I've raised a husband, I've been around, I've been married for 26 years, I've got some miles on the wheels.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think after a while you start asking yourself well, I did all these things, I filled in all the boxes and the boxes are all full, but I feel empty.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is that?

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<v Speaker 1>And so often it's because we're doing all of this for other people.

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<v Speaker 1>We're filling out everyone else's checkboxes on their definition of success and after a certain time you kind of realize well, I could keep banging my head against that wall over and over and over again and have the same result right, the definition of madness, or I could change something.

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<v Speaker 1>And once you start changing things and surrounding yourself with different people who have different goals, you get a bigger and a broader and a vaster perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>So for me, it just came from starting to do things that actually brought me joy, that made me happy, that were success in my definition, and realizing that I actually worked harder for them.

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<v Speaker 1>I tried more, I went back to the well over and over again because I actually cared about it.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you can't be insatiably hungry for someone else's goals, well, what can you be insatiably hungry for?

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<v Speaker 1>And for me, it was all those things that were driven by joy and curiosity, and I started to notice a pattern.

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<v Speaker 2>So where do you feel like success became your standard?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, did you choose success as a kid?

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<v Speaker 2>Did your family bring up?

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<v Speaker 2>Where did success become your thing?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh see, I think everybody gets handed that definition, Like every one of us gets handed a definition, the scorecard of success and we put it in our back pocket.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't even know when we get it right.

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<v Speaker 1>But, like, for me, the first like actual conscious memory I have of that definition was my fourth grade teacher telling me that I was super argumentative and that I'd make a good lawyer.

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<v Speaker 3>And I remember thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>well, I mean, the first thing I said to her, of course, was I think you're wrong, because of course I was argumentative, right.

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<v Speaker 1>But after that, you know, I went home that night and, like LA Law's on Ally McBeal, like there are all these you know law and order shows that make the law look really sexy and attractive and exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I was like, okay, that like that was the definition of success.

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<v Speaker 1>Like they're rich, they make a lot of money, they're, you know, fighting crime, they're doing all kinds of you know, they're helping everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>It seemed exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>And then over time, we keep getting handed those definitions.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you get grades in school Is it a good grade or a bad grade?

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<v Speaker 1>If, if you're dating somebody, do your parents approve of them or do they not?

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<v Speaker 1>Right, is it a good person for you or a bad person for you?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you get into a college is it a good college, a bad college?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>So at every age and at every stage, we keep getting handed these, you know, these report cards, if you will, but literally and and metaphorically, and, and they seep into our subconscious and we start defining ourselves by everyone else's definition of success, right?

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<v Speaker 1>Like I dated a nice Jewish boy.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a medical student.

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<v Speaker 1>He came from a good family.

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<v Speaker 1>My grandmother was thrilled, like she couldn't wait, to tell her Mahjong group about, like, oh, you mean my daughter, laura, the one who married the nice Jewish doctor, right?

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<v Speaker 1>Like she couldn't wait.

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<v Speaker 1>But the problem was, every time I kissed this boy, all I could think of was like milk, butter, cheese, eggs.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I had no spark with him and my grandmother would be like, laura, you just need to concentrate, right.

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<v Speaker 1>But like so her definition of success would not have worked for me.

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<v Speaker 1>And all of us, in every part of our lives, have these definitions, whether we realize them or not.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is your formula for success?

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<v Speaker 2>If you have a formula, what are the things that need to be there for success to happen?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that people should not be pursuing quote unquote success, just success writ large, because we tend to let that be defined by other people.

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<v Speaker 1>When I spent 20 years in executive search and my job in executive search was to call the most successful people on the planet and recruit them away on behalf of my clients which sounds like a hard job I was calling them because they were super successful, but it actually wasn't that hard of a job because, despite all this quote, this quote unquote success they weren't very happy.

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<v Speaker 1>So they all called me back and what I started to realize is that the people who I couldn't recruit and there were not any of them, the people who I could not recruit they tended to have four specific things they had calling uh, connection, contribution and control hang on, say those four for me again self-help calling.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So contribution and control, and I'll define each of them.

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<v Speaker 1>I call that package consonance.

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<v Speaker 1>It's alignment, it's flow, it's when what you do matches who you are.

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<v Speaker 1>So consonance is made up of calling.

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<v Speaker 1>What is the gravitational force that gets you out of bed in the morning?

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<v Speaker 1>The leader who you want to serve, the societal ill that you want to solve, the business that you want to build, the family you want to nurture, right Like, what is the thing that you care about?

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<v Speaker 1>Number two connection.

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<v Speaker 1>What is in your calendar, your email box, your to-do list, and does that stuff get you closer to or farther from your calling?

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<v Speaker 1>Number three contribution.

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<v Speaker 1>Connection's all about the work.

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<v Speaker 1>Contribution's all about you.

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<v Speaker 1>So does this work contribute to the kind of life you want to live, the lifestyle you'd like to have, right in between the want to make and the need to make number, the way you want to show up in the world, how you manifest your values?

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<v Speaker 1>How does this work contribute to your life?

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<v Speaker 1>And then control is how much personal agency do you have over how much the work connects to your calling and how much it contributes to your life?

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<v Speaker 1>So do you have a say in the teams to which you're assigned, the metrics by which you're measured, the prospects that you're given, the hours you work, the environment that you work in.

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<v Speaker 1>So all four of these things are necessary components of consonants, which, when you have it, then gives you both success and happiness.

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<v Speaker 1>And the trick is that everybody's definition is different.

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<v Speaker 1>So your definition of consonants how much calling, connection, contribution or control you need will be different than mine, but also your definition today is different than your definition was 10 years ago or 20 years ago or 10 years from now.

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<v Speaker 1>But what happens is when we're 15, 16, 17 years old, somebody says pick a path, pick a major, pick a career, pick a trade, pick a college, and you go OK.

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<v Speaker 1>But what you don't have when you're 15, 16, 17 years old is a frontal lobe, like the actual part of your brain that dictates good, sound, logical decision making.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we're asked to make these decisions that are going to affect the rest of our lives, and we literally don't have the capacity to make a good one.

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<v Speaker 1>But nobody ever says and, by the way, you get to evolve and change and redefine what success means to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, with my kids I sort of sit there and say listen, what do you want the first 10 years of your life to look like, not your whole life.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you want to do first and it makes it an easier decision for them.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you want to try?

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<v Speaker 2>You know is a big question With success.

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<v Speaker 2>There's there's all people have different opinions around success and failure.

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<v Speaker 2>What's your theory on the relationship between the two?

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<v Speaker 1>I love that question because we are told, we are taught that failure's finale it's like you're going to fail, it's the end of the road, it's going to be embarrassing, everybody's going to see and you're going to be the laughing stock.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, first of all, my favorite Eleanor Roosevelt quote is which is like picking a favorite child right, she's a brilliant woman is we would worry much less about what other people thought about us if we realized how seldomly they did.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, nobody is paying attention, nobody sees.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why we think everyone is an overnight success, because we're not paying attention to the weeks and the days and the months and the years that they're doing the work all alone, in the dark, when nobody can see.

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<v Speaker 1>So we think everybody is magical and we're completely flawed when in fact other people are just working harder.

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<v Speaker 1>So, number one nobody's paying attention, don't worry about it.

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<v Speaker 1>We're all a bunch of narcissists with the memories of fruit flies, so we don't have to worry about any of that.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the first thing.

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<v Speaker 1>The second thing is everybody says do what you do.

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<v Speaker 1>What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?

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<v Speaker 1>That's your passion and I'm like no, what would you do if you knew for sure you would fail, and yet you would do it over and over and over until you got it right.

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't it feel much more like success if you worked for something you really cared about and then you finally perfected it than if you just did something easy the first time, I think?

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<v Speaker 1>I personally think that the journey is really what we need to be focusing on, and not the end point.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you get to the end point, like I interviewed a woman who climbed Mount Everest and I was like, oh my God, when you got to the top, did you celebrate?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it amazing?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a party up there?

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<v Speaker 1>And she was like what are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>You literally take out your phone, you take a selfie and then you get the hell out of there because otherwise you're going to lose oxygen and die.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have to be excited about the process, because the end point is just this one little point in time, whereas the process is really what your life's going to be all about.

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<v Speaker 2>You're on the Big Success Podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>We're here with Laura and we're going to get into what makes happiness and success work together, or do they?

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<v Speaker 3>Business empires are where most people create the vast majority of their initial income and wealth.

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<v Speaker 3>Through Brad Sugar's Entrepreneurs event, you will learn how to turn your companies into valuable and sellable assets.

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<v Speaker 3>Visit bradsugarscom to attend this program as a standalone or as part of Brad Sugars' Entrepreneurial University.

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<v Speaker 2>So, laura, you achieved something the Mount Everest thing, all of that and you coined a wonderful phrase wonder hell, explain that relationship for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So what I talked about in the first part of the show Consonants was really the anchoring idea of my first book, Limitless.

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<v Speaker 1>How do we create a change in our career ourselves, our workplace, in order to have both success and happiness?

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<v Speaker 1>And here's what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>That book debuted at number two on the Washington Post bestseller list, which was amazing, except for the fact that I did not expect it whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>I had done all of this work to try to launch the book, having no platform whatsoever, and all of a sudden it debuts at number two.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was so exhausted by the work that it took to go into this launch of the book that the part of my brain that dictated humility was like nowhere to be found.

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<v Speaker 1>And when my publisher texted me and said number two, right behind Michelle Obama Washington Post bestseller list, all I could think of was number two.

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<v Speaker 1>What does it take to be number one?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I achieved something I never thought I could achieve.

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<v Speaker 1>It was amazing, it was magical, it was marvelous, it was wonderful and also, in that moment, I saw a version of myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if I got to be able to do that, what else can I do?

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<v Speaker 1>that suddenly I couldn't unsee and I wanted it I really wanted it, like I didn't even know I wanted it.

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<v Speaker 1>And suddenly I wanted it.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I was filled with doubt and uncertainty and imposter syndrome.

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<v Speaker 1>Like am I allowed to want it?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it okay to want it?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm no, michelle Obama.

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<v Speaker 1>Like who am I?

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<v Speaker 1>Like I'm just lucky, I got this.

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<v Speaker 1>But I still couldn't get out of my head.

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<v Speaker 1>So the burden of my potential sat on my shoulders and was like okay, laura, what else you got for me?

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<v Speaker 1>It was amazing, it was magical, it was marvelous, it was wonderful, but it was also kind of hell.

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<v Speaker 1>I had to deal with the anxiety and the dread and the fear and the exhaustion, the burnout that comes with.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, how do I fill out my own burden of potential?

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<v Speaker 1>How do I live up to that?

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<v Speaker 1>It was wonderful, it was hell.

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<v Speaker 1>It was kind of wonder hell.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think this is the area where we reach this moment of success and suddenly we're like okay, where we reach this moment of success and suddenly we're like, okay, I've now found my definition, I'm now pursuing my definition.

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<v Speaker 1>Why am I still not happy?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's because we continue to see what else we're made of and we have to make that decision of whether or not, we're going to go for it, or maybe let it pass us by.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I was chatting with my daughter yesterday about, you know, setting goals and all of that sort of stuff, and she was like well, dad, I was with the financial planner this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>I said what did you learn?

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<v Speaker 2>And she said I learned that I don't know very much.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was like it's that thing of what is it about us, laura, that says when we get to like we get to the corner and we see around the corner and now we go, wow, I can also have all of these things.

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<v Speaker 2>How do we just say this is great, I'm good, or is that a possibility?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I think it's absolutely a possibility.

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<v Speaker 1>So the way that Wonderhell, which is the book I wrote.

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<v Speaker 1>Then, when I found myself in this moment, right, I interviewed a hundred different glass ceiling shatterers, olympic medalists, startup unicorns, everyday people like me and you, to figure out how do I get out of wonder hell.

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<v Speaker 1>There has to be a way to survive this moment, and what I learned much to my chagrin, but also much to my liberation is that you don't actually get out of wonder hell because every time you accomplish something, you find yourself back in it over and over and over again.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have to learn not just to survive wonder hell, but to thrive in it, and one of the ways you thrive in it is to say I'm good right now.

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<v Speaker 1>So wonder hell is actually designed as an amusement park, and I'll explain why.

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<v Speaker 1>When I wrote Limitless, it was like okay, you've been given someone else's definition of success, you need to find your own.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that you have your own, how are you going to change yourself, your workplace, your career, to get there?

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<v Speaker 1>It was a very linear path, but with Underhell, every one of us, no matter where we are in our journey, find ourselves in a different place.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of us have doubt, some of us imposter syndrome, some of us fear, some of us burn out, some of us uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 1>Every time, every new level brings a new devil, but there was no direct linear path of which devil came first.

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<v Speaker 1>They're all sort of like chaos monkeys.

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<v Speaker 1>They just decide to come whenever they want to come, some two and three at a time.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was sort of like an amusement park where you go in and you can decide to go to

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<v Speaker 1>whatever town you want to go first and ride on whatever rides you want to go on first.

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<v Speaker 1>So the book is organized into three sections Imposter Town, Doubtville and Burnout City, each of which has five rides, and each one of those rides emulates an emotion that you're going to feel in it.

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<v Speaker 1>And the very first ride of Burnout City is the merry-go-round, when you've just decided to like slow it down a little, chill out, like I'm good right now.

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<v Speaker 1>And I interviewed somebody in that chapter who said look, you know, I started my business because I wanted to have flexibility and freedom.

00:16:06.472 --> 00:16:07.775
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be there for my kids.

00:16:07.816 --> 00:16:14.731
<v Speaker 1>And every time we achieve something, I had all of the strategists come to me saying like you got to grow bigger, better, faster, more.

00:16:14.731 --> 00:16:16.984
<v Speaker 1>And then I would say, okay, what does it look like?

00:16:16.984 --> 00:16:23.557
<v Speaker 1>And they would say, well, you're going to have to lean in, You're going to have to nose to the grindstone, You're not going to see your family for years, but it's going to be great.

00:16:23.557 --> 00:16:39.375
<v Speaker 1>On the other side and he was like nah, man, I'm good, I've got two young kids and kids spell love, T-I-M-E, and I'm just going to hang out where I am right now for a while and then when the kids are like dad, you're an old fart, I don't want to hang out with you anymore, Then I'll grow the business.

00:16:39.375 --> 00:16:47.005
<v Speaker 1>And so we can all make these decisions, depending again on what our own definition is at that moment in time in our own personal lives.

00:16:47.529 --> 00:16:49.518
<v Speaker 2>Success and happiness relationship.

00:16:49.518 --> 00:16:51.998
<v Speaker 2>How do you explain that?

00:16:52.830 --> 00:17:10.782
<v Speaker 1>So for me, I find myself at my happiest when I feel, when I am trying to master something new, right Like when I'm getting Whitney Johnson talks about the beginner's mindset it's this S curve where you start in the S and it's flat and it's hard.

00:17:10.782 --> 00:17:14.800
<v Speaker 1>You don't know what you're doing, you're messing up nonstop and it just doesn't feel very good.

00:17:14.800 --> 00:17:24.384
<v Speaker 1>And then you kind of get this little like upswing where the S, you know, sort of comes up and you're figuring it out and you're like, yeah, I got this, I got this, like all right, I'm starting to crush it, like I figured out what I'm doing.

00:17:24.384 --> 00:17:28.237
<v Speaker 1>And then you get to the top and it plateaus again and you don't really learn a lot more.

00:17:28.237 --> 00:17:30.829
<v Speaker 1>You're sort of doing the same thing over and over again.

00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:48.244
<v Speaker 1>I ran my search firm for 15 years and at the 10-year mark I was like our problem is so unique and I'm like it's unique to you but not to me, which, like good news for you, I can solve your problem.

00:17:48.244 --> 00:17:52.347
<v Speaker 1>But also it kind of got a little boring after a while and I knew that's when I needed to leave.

00:17:52.347 --> 00:17:54.452
<v Speaker 1>I knew that's when I needed to sell the firm to my team.

00:17:54.452 --> 00:17:59.760
<v Speaker 1>So for me, when I'm on that sort of upswing and I'm starting to feel success.

00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:06.634
<v Speaker 1>I haven't figured it out completely, but I'm pretty close to figuring it out and still innovating on the solution.

00:18:06.634 --> 00:18:08.838
<v Speaker 1>That's where I am at my happiest.

00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:11.230
<v Speaker 1>Other people might say I am risk averse.

00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:12.213
<v Speaker 1>I like to be at the top.

00:18:12.213 --> 00:18:13.877
<v Speaker 1>I like to know exactly what I'm doing.

00:18:13.877 --> 00:18:18.699
<v Speaker 1>Some people like to be like I love a completely blank whiteboard where I have nothing.

00:18:18.699 --> 00:18:19.761
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what's next.

00:18:19.761 --> 00:18:25.250
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's definition is going to be different and I think it's at different points in your life.

00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:27.695
<v Speaker 1>So for me, my kids are in college.

00:18:27.695 --> 00:18:28.657
<v Speaker 1>I'm an empty nester.

00:18:28.657 --> 00:18:33.797
<v Speaker 1>I can have more chaos in my work right now because the rest of my life is very quiet.

00:18:33.797 --> 00:18:49.517
<v Speaker 1>So I really think it's looking at the sort of holistically like what's happening in your relationships, in your health, in your business, in you know, in the world, so that you're getting what you need from the work that you're doing to allow the rest of your life to flourish.

00:18:49.517 --> 00:18:52.411
<v Speaker 1>It's not this sort of work-life balance, but really work-life alignment.

00:18:52.791 --> 00:18:59.076
<v Speaker 2>So how do people answer the debate in their head, then, of success bringing happiness?

00:19:00.340 --> 00:19:03.950
<v Speaker 1>I think that we have been told honestly.

00:19:03.950 --> 00:19:05.393
<v Speaker 1>I think we've been lied to right.

00:19:05.393 --> 00:19:18.969
<v Speaker 1>Everybody has said if you're successful I grew up in the 80s right Lifestyles of the rich and famous If you just earn enough, if you have enough, big enough, house, big enough, car, small enough, clothes, right, all of those things, you will finally be happy.

00:19:18.969 --> 00:19:21.221
<v Speaker 1>Right, house, right spouse, all of that stuff.

00:19:21.221 --> 00:19:32.573
<v Speaker 1>And you know, when I was coming up, it was sort of like you're a doctor, you're a lawyer, you're a teacher, you're an accountant, you're a mechanic, like you are a insert box here.

00:19:32.573 --> 00:19:35.476
<v Speaker 1>Check, we can define you Like podcaster.

00:19:35.476 --> 00:19:36.757
<v Speaker 1>Didn't exist, right.

00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.911
<v Speaker 1>So somebody once asked me the dumbest question ever on a podcast, I think, is what advice would you give your 22-year-old self?

00:19:47.911 --> 00:19:53.347
<v Speaker 1>And the reason I think that advice is bad is because, first of all, my 22-year-old self would not have listened to an old, 53-year-old woman at all.

00:19:53.347 --> 00:19:55.373
<v Speaker 1>Right, she'd be making fun of her clothes.

00:19:55.373 --> 00:20:06.884
<v Speaker 1>But what advice would I give my 22-year-old self who's listening to a podcast on her iPhone and it was recorded on the internet, like none of those things existed when I was 22.

00:20:06.884 --> 00:20:13.243
<v Speaker 1>So even if we know ourselves which we don't at that point, the world around us changes so much.

00:20:13.243 --> 00:20:40.890
<v Speaker 1>And so I think that the people who I see, who have both success and happiness, do live in this place of consonance where they really understand what is the problem that they want to solve, what are the skills that they have that they can bring to bear to solve that problem, and are they being rewarded in a way that is interesting to them, whether it's financially, emotionally, karmically, whatever for solving that problem?

00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:43.586
<v Speaker 1>And the people who are living in that space.

00:20:43.586 --> 00:20:48.667
<v Speaker 1>That's really where you find people who are feeling successful, feeling fulfilled.

00:20:49.309 --> 00:20:56.083
<v Speaker 1>And, again, whatever way they define it, you know, being successful might be that you're home every night at six o'clock to have dinner with your kids, right.

00:20:56.083 --> 00:20:59.853
<v Speaker 1>Being successful might be that you never work in the nights or the weekends.

00:20:59.853 --> 00:21:04.767
<v Speaker 1>Being successful might mean that you're working 80 hours a week and you're buying a Maserati at a beach house, like.

00:21:04.767 --> 00:21:10.855
<v Speaker 1>Being successful might be that all that you're working in a nonprofit to cure cancer or you're making tons of money and donating to cure cancer.

00:21:10.855 --> 00:21:12.502
<v Speaker 1>It can be anything.

00:21:12.502 --> 00:21:22.964
<v Speaker 1>And and I think the problem is that we get we get a little tied up in purpose shaming, right, like, yeah, you're successful, but like, are you giving back?

00:21:22.964 --> 00:21:24.587
<v Speaker 1>Or well, you're giving back.

00:21:24.587 --> 00:21:26.551
<v Speaker 1>But you know, are you really making any money?

00:21:26.551 --> 00:21:27.653
<v Speaker 1>Are you getting yourself out of debt?

00:21:27.653 --> 00:21:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Like everyone's got a?

00:21:28.560 --> 00:21:37.115
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but and I think we got to we got to get rid of the purpose shaming, because we're giving votes to people in our lives who shouldn't even have voices.

00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.921
<v Speaker 2>You're on the Big Success Podcast.

00:21:38.921 --> 00:21:39.842
<v Speaker 2>We're going to be back with Laura.

00:21:39.842 --> 00:21:41.883
<v Speaker 2>We're going to dive deeper into one to hell.

00:21:41.883 --> 00:21:43.423
<v Speaker 2>When we come back, we're going to dive deeper into Wonder.

00:21:43.443 --> 00:21:43.923
<v Speaker 5>Hell when we come back.

00:21:43.923 --> 00:21:44.064
<v Speaker 5>Author.

00:21:44.064 --> 00:21:57.713
<v Speaker 5>Catalyst and executive coach, laura Gassner-Otting inspires people to push past the doubt and indecision that keep great ideas in limbo, by helping audiences think bigger and accept greater challenges that reach beyond their current, limited scope of belief.

00:21:57.713 --> 00:22:02.057
<v Speaker 5>To learn more about Laura Gassner-Otting, please visit lauragassnerottingcom.

00:22:02.576 --> 00:22:08.308
<v Speaker 2>All right, laura, wonder Hell Phenomenally fun book Amusement rides galore.

00:22:08.308 --> 00:22:26.990
<v Speaker 2>When you found yourself there and you started interviewing everyone around this place, as you call it now, the amusement park that you can hang out at and, by the way, I feel almost like I go back and read Dr Seuss's oh, the Places you Go when I'm in Wonderhell.

00:22:26.990 --> 00:22:30.038
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's a similar dang feeling type thing.

00:22:30.077 --> 00:22:40.214
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, what was it that led you to this theory that maybe it's just somewhere we got to stay and hang out in and learn through or grow through type thing?

00:22:40.780 --> 00:22:42.900
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, actually it's an interesting story.

00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:49.761
<v Speaker 1>So Wonderhell was really born out of my need to find my way out of it.

00:22:49.761 --> 00:22:50.324
<v Speaker 1>But I didn't.

00:22:50.324 --> 00:22:56.067
<v Speaker 1>Even I didn't start with a theory, which I know is how, like you know, most research and science works start with a theory.

00:22:56.067 --> 00:22:58.482
<v Speaker 1>You do some research, you prove the theory or you don't.

00:22:58.482 --> 00:23:05.429
<v Speaker 1>What happened was the pandemic and I started just going live on social media, on Facebook, to my community every day at 10am Eastern Time.

00:23:05.429 --> 00:23:18.527
<v Speaker 1>And I started just going live on social media on Facebook to my community every day at 10 am Eastern time and I would just blather on about something that was happening for like 10 or 20 minutes, just to like feel community and just sort of be an upstander and just talk about, like what everybody's going through.

00:23:18.527 --> 00:23:19.450
<v Speaker 1>Here's what I'm going through.

00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:26.968
<v Speaker 1>I see you, I am you, we're all in this together and then, after about I'd say, three weeks of it, I got really sick of my own voice.

00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:37.666
<v Speaker 1>I was like I am just enough of me already and I thought, okay, I have lots of other friends because of what I do for a living write books and give keynote speeches.

00:23:37.666 --> 00:23:51.203
<v Speaker 1>I meet a lot of really interesting people in the green room, people with wildly more interesting stories than mine and I thought, well, why don't I just talk to them, because they're busy trying to create content also, so I could just do us all a favor and just interview them.

00:23:51.203 --> 00:23:55.603
<v Speaker 1>So I started having conversations with other people and I hate small talk.

00:23:55.603 --> 00:23:58.832
<v Speaker 1>So I started like a little podcast that I call Big Talk because I hate small talk.

00:23:58.832 --> 00:24:16.809
<v Speaker 1>And every Tuesday and Thursday I just found somebody who was super interesting First female F-14 fighter pilot, or somebody who created, you know, a business to you know, I don't know to manage rental homes, like whatever the thing was that I found and I just started talking to them about their story.

00:24:17.172 --> 00:24:27.125
<v Speaker 1>Again, I spent 20 years in executive search so understanding somebody's story, why they do what they do like I don't care so much about why somebody wants to increase shareholder value.

00:24:27.204 --> 00:24:37.679
<v Speaker 1>That's like a two minute conversation, but there's always a parent or a coach or a mentor, or a disease, a diagnosis, a world event.

00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:48.065
<v Speaker 1>There's something that puts somebody on a path, and to hear that story about who they are and why they are and what they do and what they care deeply about, for me is like catnip, like I was, like I want to hear these stories.

00:24:48.065 --> 00:25:02.471
<v Speaker 1>So I started having the conversations and then I started noticing that every single person found themselves in this place, this like an everything changed moment, and that everything changed moment was when they found themselves in wonder hell.

00:25:02.471 --> 00:25:10.282
<v Speaker 1>Moment was when they found themselves in wonder hell and they had to decide whether they were going to live into this potential that they discovered about themselves or whether they were going to let it go.

00:25:10.282 --> 00:25:13.030
<v Speaker 1>And obviously the people who I spoke to all had great stories.

00:25:13.030 --> 00:25:19.865
<v Speaker 1>So they were people who decided to just let's see what happens on the other side of uncertainty and doubt and fear and imposter syndrome.

00:25:19.865 --> 00:25:24.240
<v Speaker 1>So it was super fun to do that and probably I did about a hundred of these interviews.

00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.648
<v Speaker 1>It was probably like around interview 62 that I was like oh, wait a minute.

00:25:30.711 --> 00:25:31.731
<v Speaker 1>This is starting to sound.

00:25:31.731 --> 00:25:32.534
<v Speaker 1>I'm not that smart.

00:25:32.554 --> 00:25:33.875
<v Speaker 2>I was like this is starting to sound familiar.

00:25:35.101 --> 00:25:48.476
<v Speaker 1>It only took me 62 interviews 38 interviews I was like, okay, so I have this theory that there's this moment and I would tell it to people and they'd be like, yes, I was in wonder hell.

00:25:48.476 --> 00:25:52.644
<v Speaker 1>And so I realized it was a pretty universal thing that people are feeling.

00:25:52.644 --> 00:26:06.970
<v Speaker 1>And again, what was much to my chagrin and much to my liberation, what I realized is that all of these emotions, everything, not just the exhaustion and the burnout, but the anxiety and the dread and the imposter syndrome, were all universal.

00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:10.904
<v Speaker 1>Whether it was someone like me who was trying to figure out, like what do I do now?

00:26:10.904 --> 00:26:12.008
<v Speaker 1>Can I write a second book?

00:26:12.008 --> 00:26:12.549
<v Speaker 1>Is it okay?

00:26:12.549 --> 00:26:13.903
<v Speaker 1>Am I allowed to have a big dream?

00:26:13.903 --> 00:26:14.365
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

00:26:14.768 --> 00:26:32.255
<v Speaker 1>To people who were like a woman who was starting her second billion dollar company, a guy who was an Olympic gold medalist, with a gold medal in his pocket, literally standing at the top of the ski slope about to go on the next run, wondering, I wonder if this is the one where everything falls apart and I'm embarrassed and I'm a fraud.

00:26:32.255 --> 00:26:40.864
<v Speaker 1>Right, every single person, at every single step, felt all of these emotions, and so I realized that what we had to do was figure out a way not to survive this, because there's no surviving it.

00:26:40.864 --> 00:26:43.829
<v Speaker 1>If we're lucky, there's the next one, and the next one, and the next one.

00:26:43.829 --> 00:26:45.794
<v Speaker 1>But really to thrive in it instead?

00:26:46.261 --> 00:26:47.085
<v Speaker 2>Hey, just a quick one.

00:26:47.085 --> 00:26:58.492
<v Speaker 2>When I look in the back end of this something that's quite surprising to me I noticed that it says that 82% of you, who watch the channel regularly, haven't hit the subscribe button yet.

00:26:58.492 --> 00:27:02.339
<v Speaker 2>So one favor, click that button.

00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:14.727
<v Speaker 2>If you've watched this show before and enjoyed it, just please click that button to subscribe, hit the notifications bell and make sure you're a part of it, because as the show gets better, your success gets better.

00:27:14.727 --> 00:27:25.049
<v Speaker 2>You know that moment when you and you use the words about when you see your capabilities, when you see that, what do you think is the difference between someone that does when they see?

00:27:25.049 --> 00:27:26.306
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is the difference between someone that does when they see?

00:27:26.306 --> 00:27:31.198
<v Speaker 2>Holy heck, I can achieve this, it's possible for me.

00:27:31.198 --> 00:27:34.826
<v Speaker 2>What's the difference between someone who does push in and someone who just goes?

00:27:34.826 --> 00:27:35.326
<v Speaker 2>You know what?

00:27:35.326 --> 00:27:37.752
<v Speaker 2>Nope, staying right here.

00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:43.813
<v Speaker 1>Oh, hunger, curiosity and, I think, also just potential.

00:27:43.813 --> 00:27:49.249
<v Speaker 1>You don't feel the burden of your potential if you don't have any potential, right?

00:27:49.249 --> 00:27:54.507
<v Speaker 1>So the good news about Wonderhell is that it only presents itself to people who are worthy of it.

00:27:54.507 --> 00:28:02.738
<v Speaker 1>Like if you don't have, if you are, just if you have reached the end of your abilities, you're not going to be like, oh, what's next?

00:28:02.738 --> 00:28:04.481
<v Speaker 1>Because you just don't see that version of yourself.

00:28:04.782 --> 00:28:16.587
<v Speaker 1>It's like internal candidates, people who work in a company and they apply for the next bigger job, but they don't get the job, always end up leaving, obviously, if they're treated poorly, if they're taken advantage of.

00:28:16.587 --> 00:28:17.573
<v Speaker 1>That's why they leave.

00:28:17.573 --> 00:28:20.124
<v Speaker 1>But I'm talking about places where they're treated really well.

00:28:20.124 --> 00:28:31.707
<v Speaker 1>They get their day in court, they have a great interview process and for whatever reason, they're just not the right fit for that position.

00:28:31.707 --> 00:28:32.810
<v Speaker 1>They always end up leaving within six months to a year.

00:28:32.810 --> 00:28:41.845
<v Speaker 1>And the reason is is because the wearing of the clothes of that role, the speaking and the voice of that role, the thinking and the mindset of that role, they see themselves in that new, bigger role and they can't unsee themselves in this way.

00:28:41.845 --> 00:28:48.269
<v Speaker 1>So somebody who doesn't think about themselves as having more potential would never have applied for that bigger job in the first place.

00:28:48.859 --> 00:28:56.128
<v Speaker 1>So you know, like it's like if you're, if you're hiking, you're halfway up the mountain, like you're bottom of the mountain, and you look up and you're like I want to go there.

00:28:56.128 --> 00:28:59.329
<v Speaker 1>Then you get halfway up and there's a sort of scenic overlook.

00:28:59.329 --> 00:29:02.128
<v Speaker 1>So you go and you look out at the at the ridge, and what do you see?

00:29:02.128 --> 00:29:04.571
<v Speaker 1>You see the top of your mountain, but what else do you see?

00:29:04.571 --> 00:29:08.987
<v Speaker 1>You see the rest of the mountain range, right, and you're like, oh, I actually want to go there.

00:29:09.500 --> 00:29:13.522
<v Speaker 1>People who don't have hunger and curiosity will look at the rest of the mountains and go oh, that's pretty.

00:29:13.522 --> 00:29:14.346
<v Speaker 1>Let me take a picture.

00:29:14.346 --> 00:29:18.806
<v Speaker 1>People who are hungering of curiosity will say how much fuel do I have left?

00:29:18.806 --> 00:29:21.548
<v Speaker 1>How much daylight do I have left?

00:29:21.548 --> 00:29:22.689
<v Speaker 1>What else can we?

00:29:22.749 --> 00:29:26.892
<v Speaker 1>do and they're just different people, and it's not to say that one is good and one is bad.

00:29:26.892 --> 00:29:28.314
<v Speaker 1>They're just different.

00:29:28.314 --> 00:29:33.458
<v Speaker 1>So if you're listening to this and you're like yes, that's me, like I'd say congratulations, you're already halfway there.

00:29:33.458 --> 00:29:34.882
<v Speaker 1>Because we have this.

00:29:34.882 --> 00:29:38.205
<v Speaker 1>You know this, this idea that if you can dream it, you can do it.

00:29:38.205 --> 00:29:45.717
<v Speaker 1>But really, what's happening is, if you're you're doing it, so you can dream it, so you can dream it, you're halfway up the mountain, which gives you the confidence to keep going even further.

00:29:45.717 --> 00:29:47.618
<v Speaker 1>Right, if you do it, you can dream it.

00:29:47.618 --> 00:29:49.970
<v Speaker 1>And if you're feeling wonder health, it's because you're already doing it.

00:29:50.471 --> 00:29:56.651
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if you're probably not listening to this podcast, if you don't have that hunger and drive to, that's a thing.

00:29:57.559 --> 00:29:58.201
<v Speaker 1>Exactly so.

00:29:58.201 --> 00:30:01.005
<v Speaker 1>It does become a little bit of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

00:30:01.005 --> 00:30:04.088
<v Speaker 1>It becomes like like it's a self-selected group of people.

00:30:04.088 --> 00:30:08.153
<v Speaker 1>You, you choose to hang around with people who are hungrier, who you know.

00:30:08.153 --> 00:30:09.035
<v Speaker 1>You finish a 5k.

00:30:15.299 --> 00:30:16.501
<v Speaker 1>I ran the first mile of my life right before I turned 40.

00:30:16.501 --> 00:30:18.505
<v Speaker 1>And it took me six weeks to finish that, to run that mile without literally hurling.

00:30:18.505 --> 00:30:25.954
<v Speaker 1>And at the end of it I was all hopped up on dopamine and serotonin and I was like, oh, cool, if I string three of those together, maybe I could do a 5K.

00:30:25.954 --> 00:30:27.938
<v Speaker 1>And six weeks later I did a 5K.

00:30:27.938 --> 00:30:32.848
<v Speaker 1>When I say did not ran because there was a lot of doing and not a lot of running, but I did finish it.

00:30:32.848 --> 00:30:38.425
<v Speaker 1>And at the end of that again dopamine, serotonin I was like, oh, if I string two of those together, I can do a 10K.

00:30:38.465 --> 00:30:42.151
<v Speaker 1>And now I'm training for my seventh marathon in three weeks.

00:30:42.151 --> 00:30:46.883
<v Speaker 1>So it's not like I woke up one day and I'm like I'm going to do it, I'm going to run a marathon.

00:30:46.883 --> 00:31:06.945
<v Speaker 1>But I was like I'm going to start moving my body, I'm going to go to a boot camp, I'm going to surround myself with other people who are moving their bodies and getting up at five in the morning to go to boot camp, and that momentum, like we surround ourselves with people who listen to this podcast, who dream of more, who feel their own potential, who see your potential, and then we can borrow their confidence until we have our own.

00:31:07.246 --> 00:31:15.292
<v Speaker 2>You know it's hard to see what's around the corner until you get to the corner and it's hard to set that goal or the next thing until you get to the thing.

00:31:15.292 --> 00:31:18.810
<v Speaker 2>It's like climbing a ladder you got to get up one rung before you can get to the next one.

00:31:18.810 --> 00:31:23.486
<v Speaker 2>Laura, I want to ask you one final question.

00:31:23.486 --> 00:31:29.134
<v Speaker 2>Best advice you ever got or best quote you ever heard on the subject of success?

00:31:33.141 --> 00:31:41.153
<v Speaker 1>I'll give you a quote my best advice I ever got when I was feeling successful and didn't feel successful.

00:31:41.153 --> 00:31:48.026
<v Speaker 1>I was complaining to a mentor of mine who was this old seven-year-old woman and I was telling her how unhappy I was.

00:31:48.026 --> 00:31:49.048
<v Speaker 1>She's like what's the problem?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't understand.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like you got a happy kid, you got happy kids, happy marriage, happy business, like everything's.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your problem?

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<v Speaker 1>Like I don't know, I yell at my kids too much.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was telling her the story about how I pick up my kids, you know, because I want to be a present parent but I take them to the park, but I've got my phone, so I'm always with my clients.

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<v Speaker 1>And she was like what are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>And she said you're just not that important.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, and at the time I felt like well, I was pretty insulted.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like I'm super important to my family, my friends, my community.

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<v Speaker 1>She's like you're not.

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<v Speaker 1>She's like you're trying to micromanage every single thing in your life and that's not going to work because you're not raising independent thinking children and you're certainly not raising independent thinking staff members.

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<v Speaker 1>So you got to figure this out and what she was trying to tell me is this You're just not that important except where you are.

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<v Speaker 1>So figure out what only you can do, like the highest and best purpose of your time, is what only you can do.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything else has to be delegated, because you're just not that important except where you are.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you want to be successful and happy, you've got to figure out with absolute, like just brutality, where are those places where the except where you are fits.

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<v Speaker 2>Laura Gassner Arning.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you Big Success Podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll be back next week with more of your success.

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<v Speaker 4>You've been listening to the Big Success Podcast with the number one business coach in the world, Brad Sugars.

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<v Speaker 4>To learn more about how to achieve business and personal success, as well as how to level up or listen to past episodes, visit wwwbradsugarscom.