Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep25 - Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Raw Food? Raw Diets for Puppies - Part One

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I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist

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and this is a Puppy Culture

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potluck podcast.

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You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.

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Well, today's topic is on raw feeding.

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So here's the question.

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I'm wondering if you could make

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an episode on feeding dogs raw food.

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We plan to feed our pup raw.

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The breeder currently feeds raw.

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But it's a bit intimidating
for people who are new to this diet.

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I'm wondering
if you could cover a few things.

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Number one, the science behind it
and health benefits.

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Number two, why do you feed raw
and how long you've been feeding raw?

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Number three, the dangers

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of feeding raw
and how to avoid these dangers.

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For instance, proper practices
for purchasing, handling and feeding raw.

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Number four, any challenges

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you've experienced or seen
with feeding raw?

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Number five, tips for starting raw diets.

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Where to begin?

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Number six, whether the meat
has to be a certain quality

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and where to purchase ingredients
for homemade raw.

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I've heard that grocery store
meats aren't safe

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because of their allotted salmonella
and bacterial thresholds.

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Number seven, how to handle
raw treats, bones with raw meat.

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Do you have to clean up bedding, etc.

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every time the raw treats come in
contact with it?

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Do you have to wipe down
your pup's face and paws after contact?

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I would like.

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Oh, sorry. Number eight.

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I would love it if you would share
some recipes for homemade raw food

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or other resources/recipe
books on feeding raw.

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Number nine,
whether puppies need special recipes

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or if they can eat the same recipes
as adult dogs.

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I know a lot of
this is Google-able, L.O.L.

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but I found that there's a lot of fear
mongering around

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feeding raw both from owners and vets.

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So I wanted to reach out
and see what your thoughts are.

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Thank you so much.

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Appreciate any wisdom
you can share on these topics.

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Okay.

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Well,

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what those questions
are more of an outline

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for a course
on canine nutrition than a podcast.

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So I'm not going to be able
to tackle in detail

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every single thing that she asked about.

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But I am going to riff on these questions

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because I have a lot to say
about the topic in general,

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and I'm going to break it into parts
at least two, maybe three,

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because this is definitely going
to run long.

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I also want to say at the outset,

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if you're a die hard kibble feeder,
you may not like the first part of this,

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but I encourage you to listen on because
this is not a kibble bashing podcast

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and I am going to lay out the case
for kibble as well.

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So first question, how long have we been
feeding raw and why do we feed raw?

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I have been feeding my dogs

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raw since 1998
and we are currently on our ninth

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generation of raw fed dogs and we've had
multiple litters across generations.

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So a lot of dogs for a lot of years,
about 26, 27 years.

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We wean our puppies on to raw

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and they continue with raw
as long as they're with us.

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Most of our puppy owners
do continue with RAW as well.

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Our dogs are relatively very healthy
for the breed.

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They live much longer than the average
for the breed.

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And most importantly
to us, they remain vibrant

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and puppy
like well into their senior years.

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We have never had an adverse event

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related to raw feeding of any kind

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either for the dogs or for us.

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So for what it's worth,
our dogs are living testament to the fact

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that a raw diet
is a healthy option for your pet.

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As to why,
initially I started with raw it,

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it was because it made sense to me to feed
my dogs what they're designed to eat.

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I grew up in a family
where every meal was made

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from fresh ingredients, and to this day
I prepare three meals a day for my family.

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It's not some kind of food tribe
identification, it's

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just that I grew up in a family
where people made food for themselves.

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My grandparents
brought it from the old country

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and somehow we just never lost that.

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When I do eat any kind of prepared food,
I immediately feel worse.

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So that also reinforces my behavior
of sticking

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to making fresh food
from fresh ingredients.

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I tend to go to the local farm
stand and use whatever's there.

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We are also fortunate enough
to live in an area where local farmers

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and fishermen sell their freezer meat
and fish at local farm stands.

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So that's pretty much all we eat.

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Local seasonal meats

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and vegetables from the local farm stand.

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You know, nowadays if you eat and cook
like we do, you will be labeled

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a local vor or a seasonal vor

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or a slow foods movement person.

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But honestly, it's just food,
not an identity.

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And it's so strange to me and frankly,
concerning to me

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that people find this exceptional.

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So circling back to the dogs,

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it just would have been weird for me
to feed my dogs, processed food.

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The idea that it would be somehow healthy

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is akin to thinking that, quote,

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healthy choice
unquote, frozen food would be somehow

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more healthy than roast chicken
and vegetables that I prepared myself.

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And the wisdom of that feeding model
has been borne out for us

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over the generations
with the health and longevity of our dogs.

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Okay.

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So let's move on to the next question,
which is what is the science

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behind raw feeding?

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And I have to say,

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I always find this question amusing

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because domestic dogs have been eating raw
for somewhere between 30

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and 40,000 years and thriving

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and wild Canids have been eating raw for,
let's say,

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37 to 40 million years
and they got by just fine.

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Commercial
dog food was not even an option until 1860

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and not popularized
until maybe 80 years ago.

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It is the most bizarreo logic

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that the question always seems to be

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What is the science behind feeding raw?

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I mean, the science is that's
what dogs eat.

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Somehow all those canids for 37
million years

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got by until Ken-L Ration
arrived on the scene.

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It should be assumed
that raw food is good for your dog.

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The question should really be,

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how is it possible for dogs
to survive on highly processed food

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without any variety or fresh ingredients?

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I mean, if someone said you have a choice,

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you could live on processed
food in a tube.

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The same exact ingredients and flavor
every day of your life.

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Or you could eat a diet of prepared

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fresh fruits
and vegetables, meat and fish.

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What person given

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that choice is going to say, Yeah.

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Tell me more about the science
behind this fresh food thing.

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I'm not sure I trust it.

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Any normal person would ask,

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How is it possible
to live on food in a tube?

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Because it defies common sense.

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But that's the power of marketing.

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It has literally changed
the sensibilities of humans

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and convinced us, despite
overwhelming evidence to the contrary,

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that we are incapable of feeding our dogs

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without a commercially prepared diet.

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Now, listen,

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the science behind dog
nutrition is fascinating,

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but way beyond the scope of this podcast,
I recommend Dr.

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Ian Billinghurst's book,
Give Your Dog Bone

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as the best basic treatise on raw feeding

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the science behind it and the benefits.

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If you want to get started,
that is the most approachable,

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least intimidating, most commonsense
book written by a veterinarian

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that's out there.

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But you know what?

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You really don't need to know
the science behind raw feeling to know

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what's a healthy way to feed your dog
because you've got 30,000 years

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plus my personal 26 to 27 years

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that says raw feeding is a healthy option.

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Okay.

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And let's move on to health benefits.

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As the original poster pointed out,

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there is a truly overwhelming amount

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that's been written
about the health benefits of feeding raw.

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And again, I do think that Billinghurst's
book lays it out pretty well.

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And I just
I don't need to add to any of that.

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So I'm only going to speak to the health
benefits

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that we have observed in our own dogs
over the generations.

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These are pretty subjective observations.

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But the question is directed to me,
so I'm sharing my perceptions.

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Take them for what they're worth.

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I spoke in general
previously about the health

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and longevity of my dogs,
but to put it in context,

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a nine year old bull
terrier is often, frankly, quite old.

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I judge bull terriers quite a bit.

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I judge veterans quite a bit,
and I'm often shocked

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at how old nine year old dogs are.

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Our dogs are still running agility
at nine years

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old, sometimes into ten years old.

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Also, our dogs do not smell like dogs.

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You can put your nose into the fur
of any of our dogs

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and they smell sweet like a horse,
not doggy.

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You can run your hands over our dogs

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and pat them
and your hands will come away clean.

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We almost never bathe our dogs.

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The only time they get a bath is
if they're going to a show

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or they got into something really nasty.

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And they absolutely do not smell

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and they feel clean to the touch.

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Our dogs almost
never have any kind of digestive upset.

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Our puppies transition to their new homes
with zero stomach upset.

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Neither travel nor routine changes,

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nor diet changes seem to affect our dogs.

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We do

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vary their diet quite a bit,
and even if we throw

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in the occasional meal of kibble
or cooked food,

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they handle it just fine.

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Their stool volume

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is a small fraction of the stool volume
that a kibble fed dog produces,

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and the stool itself breaks down
into a white chalky substance.,

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if we miss picking it up.

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Once you get used to those clean, neat,
raw food

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poops, the big greasy
kibble poops are disturbing.

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So vibrant health,

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appealing body condition and odor,

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youthfulness into old age, long life,

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in 26 years of raw feeding

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I have yet to see any health

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downside whatsoever.

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Okay, Kibble feeders.

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Now, if I haven't lost you already.

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Here we go.

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I have a saying that our ability

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as a civilization to keep dogs
is based on three things.

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Number one, they sleep 20 hours a day.

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Number two, they can hold their bladder
and bowels for 8 hours.

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And number three,
the existence of the dog food industry.

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And I say

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that because prior to dog food
being commercially available

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and affordable, dogs really were not kept

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so much as pets by middle class people.

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Not in the same way that we do now.

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I would venture to say
that the initial obstacle

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for most middle class people
and I'm going back to Victorian times,

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you know,
when the dog food industry began,

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that initial obstacle was probably
more financial than anything else.

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But then, you know,

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as the generations went by,
we also lost our ability to prepare food.

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I mean, people have literally don't
have the skills to prepare food.

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So having to prepare food for a dog
now becomes an enormous chore

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that many people just lack

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the skill and competence to carry out.

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So there is this sizable cross section

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of the population that lacks the time,
money and ability to put together

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a nutritionally viable diet
for their dogs.

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And kibble is the answer for them.

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They simply could not have a dog
if they had to prepare food

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for the dog themselves.

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I do feel that people
who get on a high horse about feeding raw

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are a bit like rich people
who fill up their shopping carts

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with grass fed beef and organic vegetables

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and then look down their noses at people
who are filling up their shopping carts

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with boxes of Kraft macaroni and cheese

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or Hamburger Helper.

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Usually when someone's
filling up their cart

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with those kinds of processed foods, it's

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because either they're less affluent,

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they're working longer hours
or multiple jobs

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have larger families

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or are culturally disadvantaged
because they never

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had a person in their life
teach them how to prepare food.

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If you have the

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money, time and knowledge
to feed your family fresh,

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organic food,
you are not morally superior.

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You are super fortunate.

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And the same thing goes for feeding dogs.

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So let me drill down a little

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into what it really takes to feed raw.

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I would say many of these requirements

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would qualify as what she asked about,

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which are challenges of feeding raw.

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The easiest way to get started

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is to begin with a commercial raw mix.

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Yes, there are pet food companies
that make complete

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nutrition, dog food that's raw.

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However,
we also prepare food from scratch.

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Three meals a day at our house
and we have a vegetable

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garden
and also fruit trees on our property.

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I make my own fermented vegetables.

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I make my own yogurt and kefir.

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We have access to pasteurized eggs.

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My sister has chickens
right down the street.

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We can get raw goat milk and raw cow milk.

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So we use the raw mix as

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a base
and then just rotate our add ons based on

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whatever is in the house that day
or for that matter,

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what's in the yard under the fruit trees
or in the vegetable garden.

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Our dogs forage a lot.

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If you are not the kind of person
who cooks from scratch every day,

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you won't have
all those nice add ons handy.

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So yes,
your dog can just get by in the raw mixes,

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but optimally you'll be throwing
some extra fermented foods

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and a variety of add ons into their dishes

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that you'll have to go to the store
and get.

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Let me just say,
this is not a cheap proposition

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unless you live right near
to where the raw food companies are.

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The shipping is crazy expensive

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and you also need a huge freezer
to store the raw food in

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and you have to pay for electricity
to keep it frozen so it adds up.

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You can
definitely do this much more cheaply

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by buying the ingredients
and divvying it up into portions.

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But that is an intensely time
consuming pastime,

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especially if you want to grind the food

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first to avoid any choking hazard.

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And then you're going to have to have
some knowledge about balancing nutrients.

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And that can quickly become
an atomic vortex of fussiness.

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Seriously,
when you join some raw feeding groups,

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it becomes incomprehensible

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how anyone can accomplish
feeding their dog.

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They will quibble about 1% more
or less of an ingredient,

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fire off at each other about the amount

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of secreting organ versus muscle meat.

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There are several different
feeding models.

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It's crazy.

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But, you know, I just don't think
it really has to be that difficult.

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At one time, I belonged to a co-op

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that sourced chicken
as a base for raw feeding.

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And then I used to go meet a truck
on the New Jersey Turnpike

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once every few months
and get some pre-made raw mixes.

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And I also went to a meat
packing plant in New Jersey that sold

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dog food, you know, and beef ends
that they ground up for dog food.

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It was worth it to me.

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But the fact remains, it was a lot of work
and it's not for everyone.

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For what it's worth,
my dogs got by at one point in my life

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extremely
well on a diet of mostly chicken necks

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with the occasional alternate protein
whenever I had a chance to get it

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and whatever kitchen scraps
I had each day,

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but it was mostly chicken necks.

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I do think they do much better
on the commercial

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balanced mix that we use now, but they did
pretty darn good for about a decade

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on chicken necks, beef and tripe
from the butcher and some kitchen scraps.

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And no, I didn't measure anything.

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They got whatever I had on hand.

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I'm not advocating that diet.

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I'm just saying that

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if you're in
a group and you're starting to freak out

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because you're seeing,
you know, what looks like a Michelin

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starred restaurant
offering for each dog every day,

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and people are arguing about percentages
and ratios..

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it, trust me,
it doesn't have to be that hard.

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Don't be intimidated.

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Again,
if you want a nice, approachable entree

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into feeding raw and preparing it
yourself, you can't go wrong with Dr.

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Billinghurst's book Give Your Dog a Bone.

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It's approachable, easy to follow,
but be aware

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that it does involve more
than opening a bag of food.

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And that's not for everyone,
which is fine.

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This is a no judgment zone.

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Okay. Well,
I feel like that got us started

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on this topic,
so I'm going to leave it here.

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But next time
we're going to pick up with Avco

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and what complete
and balanced really means.

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00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:05,840
If you

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00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,520
liked this
podcast, you'll love our puppy course.

341
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,160
Available at madcapuniversity.com.

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00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:14,680
Breeders.

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00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,920
We have a course for you too
at madcapuniversity.com.

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00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,640
Are you new to Puppy Culture
and just want to get acquainted.

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00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,360
Check out our get started bundles
for breeders

346
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,120
and get started bundles for puppy owners

347
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,560
at puppyculture.com.

348
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,840
Well that's it for this time.

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00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,240
Thanks for listening.

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00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:49,640
Bye bye.