Not So Golden Ideas and Potential Braves Trade Chips

00:00:21
Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Hammer Territory Podcast. My name is Sean Coleman, joined tonight by Scott Coleman. It is the Coleman Duo. I couldn't think of a word that started with seed that had to do with duo. AnyWho, Regardless, Scott Coleman, it is always a pleasure to talk with you, sir, especially when it comes to Braves baseball.

00:00:41
Speaker 2: How are you this evening, is Sean, I'm great, buddy. It's always nice to do a Coleman Squared episode of the show. No Brad, no Steven, just you and I. The Coleman's holding down the four tonight, and I hope everybody out there is doing well.

00:00:56
Speaker 1: The Coleman combo. Who there we go? All right, we got it going on? All right? Well, yes, it's a pleasure to be with you here on the Hammer Territory Podcast, part of the Foul Territory family of podcasts. Hope everyone wherever we are, wherever you were listening, you had a great Thanksgiving holiday. You're having a good start to your holiday season. And while we've not really seen a lot of action so far in terms of actual signings trade, we're getting closer to the winter meetings where some things will pick up. I mean, Scott will discuss that a bit later on in the episode. But but Scott, you know, this is the time of year where we start to talk about, you know, how Hall of Fame voting can go, and you know, rumors and speculations of what could occur in things like that. But it's also a time for a bit of the crazy to come out. Every year, it seems you start to hear this, this out of the blue, out of left field, if you will, potential change to the game of baseball that could occur, and we once again have started to see that, and it comes in the form of what is being referred to as the Golden at Bat Rule. Scott, you have had some opinions on this. I know that other members of Hammers territory have had some opinions on this. The stage is yours. Please lay out what this means in your initial thought behind it, and I'll be glad to follow. It's just it's, for lack of a better way of putting it, I don't necessarily know if it's more intriguing or head scratching, but it at least worth talking about.

00:02:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if I understand correctly. Honest to god, I thought it was a joke the first time I heard about the Golden at bat or the Golden hitter or whatever it is. But if folks haven't seen this, it is an idea I guess that Commissioner Rob Manfred has thrown out there that essentially, one time per game, a team can effectively pinch hit any single player they want into that situation. So again, man, it could be you could have the ninth hitter do up and you could pinch it Austin Riley in the seventh inning with the bases loaded. Or the crazy scenario Sean is you could have the ninth place hitter up with the bases loaded. Let's say that Ron Acunya Junior is matting lead off that game. You could have Acuna be the golden hitter for the ninth spot and.

00:03:18
Speaker 3: Then hit again.

00:03:19
Speaker 2: If how does that work? I don't know. Man, it sounds like something a nine year.

00:03:23
Speaker 4: Old would make up, like on the bench at a little league game, and I mean it's I would be truly shocked if this ever came to light, But it's given us something to talk about, and that's not always the case.

00:03:37
Speaker 2: In early December.

00:03:39
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And the thing that I'll say is this is that you know, I think what people you know looked at, you know, some of the recent changes that you've seen occur in baseball, you know, the runner around second and extra innings, the pitch clock as well. I think the initial overall reaction was probably skeptical, maybe even trending towards a bit negative. But those I'm kind of about the runner on second and the extra innings. I know you and myself their are similar thoughts. The pitch clock has been a great revelation for the game, but those changes helped out the efficiency of the sports. They made the game quicker, They made the game easier to watch without really giving a competitive advantage to any team. All teams were impacted in the same way by these changes. This rule is not the same, this golden that bat role is not the same. This is a novelty act that is taking away from baseball. A similar approach, I think could be like when you've heard about the four point shot potentially being added to basketball. It's really going to emphasize your star players. It's really going to emphasize that handful of fifteen to twenty players and it also is something that's really going to put team some teams in a much better position than other teams. And it's too much of a creer. It's too much of a advantage I feel when it competitive for some teams. I feel that's the first thing that stands out to me is be and why this makes absolutely no sense.

00:05:07
Speaker 2: And part of what makes baseball so great is it can be a new hero every single night. Or what's sweeter than a guy in the midst of an zero for twenty slump and he comes up with the bases loaded in the ninth inning and everyone's kind of going, oh, man, all right, Sean hasn't had a hit in a week. This is not going to go well. And what happens, but you line the ball into the gap, you clear the bases, and you win the game. That kind of goes away if you implement this new rule. This this idea, not even a new rule, it's an idea at this point of Okay, let's bring up the best player on the team again. Man, it sounds I mean, it sounds like something the Savannah Bananas would probably do. And I love the Savannah Bananas for the way they have helped grow the game of baseball in recent years. And I mean, hell, they sell out every single stadium they go to. But that's that's Savannah bananas. That that's not major League Baseball. That's not the Atlanta Braves, and I ah, man, I would be shocked if this even has a dream of seeing the light of day one day. But again, Rob Manfred, I think it's funny you made a good point a moment ago. I think Rob Manfred has almost gotten an unfair shake in regards to some things. By no means am I a Rob Manford defender. But you said it a moment ago, universal dh the pitch clock. I actually don't hate the runner on second base thing in the extra innings as much. I mean, it's still a little weird. I don't love it, but I'm a little and I'm more indifferent to the rule. Now. I tell you, I don't miss nineteen inning baseball games or sixteen inning baseball games. But yeah, this this is silly, and I don't I don't think it has a chance to get even close to the game that we all love.

00:06:55
Speaker 1: Now, the funny thing to me is that yourself, I think everybody all form members of Alhammor Territory Podcast have mentioned multiple times this offseason about how it seemed like every time there was a big moment in the game during the twenty four season, Orlando Arcia came up to the plate, and so this would be the perfect thing to prevent that from happening. But still it's just it's not baseball. And those points that you brought up, the universal DH again, the pitch clock again, the runner on second base again. That is promoting positive things. That's promoting aspects of baseball that are going to make it more fun to watch, more offense, making the game shorter and fellow. You know, Hammer Territory Podcast or Steven Tolbert By the way, Steven, hope you get the film better, sir. He brought up a great point. You brought up a great point. There are other things to focus on. For instance, Steven brought off the fact of why don't you make sure that you can standardize a baseball throughout a whole season moving forward, and one that potentially could lead to more offense. That's going to be a way for you to be able to create more stars, that more people going to know their names about, which will help grow the sport instead of this rule out of left field that are only going to allow for your ten to fifteen best players to remain in the spotlight. There are other more important, more effective ways to make rule changes than this. It just to your point. I don't think it's gonna happen, but I think it's gonna Chris, it's even being discussed.

00:08:19
Speaker 2: And you know, it's crazy because it feels like just yesterday we were in that never ending lockout with the CBA negotiations. But I think it was Ken Rosenthal just kind of pointed out the other day I think there's only two years left on the current CBA if memory serves, so you know, there's been renewed talk not only about rule changes that will hopefully make the game better, because I agree wholeheartedly. I was so skeptical on the pitch clock, and then I watch highlights from a baseball game seven years ago with forty five seconds of dead time between pitches, and it's like, how did we This is crazy? Like this is this is nuts. I think a lot of changes have been made for the better, But with the CBA negotiations, there's been all this new talk about does there need to be a salary cap, does there need to be a salary floor to make the teams that don't want to spend money spend money. It's not going to be a crazy floor, but it could be one hundred hundred and twenty million dollars. I think about a third of the league last year operated under one hundred and twenty million dollars. There's no need for that, man, You've got billionaire owners. Attendance was through the roof last year. Revenues or through the roof, so it's kind of reignited this conversation about peace between the players' association and the owners. And we'll see what other rule changes come of those negotiations. But I guess to put a bow on this. Just no chance, man. This is it is silly at best, and if we're being nice, it's just dumb.

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00:10:57
Speaker 1: And again, it's fun to talk about. But let's get to an even more fun subject to talk about, and that is where Alexxenthopolis continues to excel. It seems you're in and you're out, and that of course is on the trade front front of the show. Mark Bowman of MLB dot com wrote a really thought provoking, thought provoking piece, and I'm not just saying that to be complimentary. It was really really interesting the trade candidate's piece that he wrote. When when I say trade candidates, I'm not talking about potential trade targets that the Braves could go after, but what members of the Braves, both in the farm system and with the major league club could be sensible for the Braves to potentially use in getting players that they need to fill holes to be better for twenty twenty five and beyond. And there were a couple of perspectives in that article, Scott that I think that Mark Bowman brought up that really made you think. What really stood out to you when you read that article is being like, may not have thought of that? Or man, you know that I don't necessarily know what's going to happen, but you can make logic from What did you take away from from Bowman's article?

00:12:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's worth noting that the Winter Meetings start four or five days from right now. I think they technically begin on Sunday, and I'm sure the GMS are reporting. I think it's still in Nashville. Correct me if I'm wrong, Sean, But they're going to be shown up this weekend, and usually the Winter Meetings are really the fireworks that get everything going, the damn will break. There is reporting that Juan Soto is closing in on a team or two or three, and it sounds like the Sodo stuff is going to be wrapped up, maybe within the week, and then kind of that next wave of free agents will have a better clearer picture of where to go. But you know, from from Bowman's piece, and it's worth reading if folks didn't know, he spoke pretty openly about where the Braves might value their prospects most The one that probably caught me by the most surprised was with A. J. Smith Shaver and Hirston Waldrip. Now, Bowman has been doing this for a long time. I'm sure he has sources, and he isn't just pulling this out of thin air. You know. Bowman seemed to think that the Braves would be more inclined to trade AJ Smith Schaver as a big piece this winter than Hurston Waldrip. That was a little bit of a surprise to me, just because based on the team's actions and just where those two pitchers are at today, Smith's Shaver is clearly in favor with the front office and we only saw Waldrop for a short amount of innings this past year and it was not pretty. But I mean, hell, he was pitching in college two years ago, so that's not a big surprise. And then you know, Bowman also acknowledged that Drake Baldwin, while a very enticing piece he is, he's the most enticing piece, but also could be a piece of this franchise long term, especially after the year he had. So overall it was just an interesting kind of insight into where, at least according to Bowman sources, where the Braves might be sitting with their prospects.

00:14:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to your point, you know, again, this isn't you know in talking about you know what sources you know, which of this may be Bowman's opinion versus you know, him going off information that he's heard, you know what could be in there. Well again, you know, to to he validated I think the opinion of the fact that a J. Smiths Schaver could be more available than some may think, even more available than Nurst and Waldrup, because he came straight out and said teams have had shown interest in Waldrum, the Braves have shown no interest in wanting to trade him, and so that's what really stood out to me. But before we get into the prospects. There was another really really eye opening part of that article that talked about a couple of potential major league options that could make sense in a potential trade if the Braves really wanted to get creative. Jared Kellnick obviously was a name that has been mentioned. I just don't think it really makes sense for the Braves to trade him at low value, at his low costs, when he probably could be a fine fourth outbuilder. But Ozzie Alby's Ozzi Albi's was mentioned, and you know, Mark Bowman talked about the fact that you know, yes, Ozzy Albi's is a I believe what is seven means or less over the next three years, but he is shown to be, you know, a bit more prone to injuries. The defense is certainly something that's questioned. The offensive consistency has kind of fallen a bit as well. There are, you know, questions that could be fairly asked about Ozzie Alby's and his value overall, but still with his contract, could he be of good value for the Braves to trade. I don't think it makes sense, but it at least there was some logic, at least with Bowman's thought process about mentioning Ozzy Alby's.

00:15:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I don't think Sean or I or probably anyone listening to this podcast expects Ozzy Alby's to be traded, But it's kind of the first time that anybody plugged into the team has at least kind of spoken it or written about the possibility and the reality that Ozzy Alby's's defense has fallen off significantly. I mean, even compared to like Witt Mirifield, who's ten years old than Ozzy Is. It was night and day whenever he started to fill in, much more range, much stronger arm, much better turning double plays. But man, we love Ozzy Alby's. He's beloved in that clubhouse. He's great friends with a lot of the players. So I don't think anybody expects Ozzy to get moved this winter. But depending on the year he has next season, I think we're you know, it feels like Ozzy is signed forever, but he has this year under control for sure, and then two club options beyond this season. I would guess that two years from now, Ozzy Alby's is still the team's second basement. But it definitely caught my eye and caught years too, Sean, when Mark Bowman at least gave the slim possibility that Atlanta could get creative and try to use Ozzy Alby's as part of a big, a big deal that would probably have to go for a team where they clearly don't want to subtract from the big league club. Those moves are pretty rare, and again I don't think anyone expects it. And on Kelnick, I agree, I think Kelnick is gonna have a role next season. I guess you could trade him now, but I mean you're not gonna get very much, and the Braves are gonna need all the outfielders they can get their hands on with the Kunya's knee uncertainty. Michael Harris has missed significant time the last two years with a hamstring and a back issue, and that, I mean, that's it for in house outfielders at this point on the roster, on the forty man. So it's uh. It was again worth checking out that piece from Bowman because not only did he hit on the prospects who might be moved at any point this winter, but some of the major league pieces that maybe aren't completely set in stone.

00:17:37
Speaker 1: And I think the other thing that you know goes into that plays into this as well, is that you know you mentioned at the clubhouse presence that Ozzie Alby's has. And as much as the Braves talk about valuing that clubhouse presence, you know, could you imagine you're already seeing Max Freed, Travis Darno, potentially Charlie Morton, potentially AJ Minter. They may not be in that clubhouse next year. You're not going to have the major factor players like Spencer Strouder and Ronald Acuna Junior to be there as well. Now, the potential of Ozzie Albi's not being there, that just seems to be too big of a potential swing in clubhouse dynamics to where. You know, I know some may not necessarily value that that much. I think the Braves do. So I'm thinking Ozzy Alby's, you know, I think he's here to stay for quite a while. But it is very intriguing and I do think there is at least some logic in a vacuum of why Bowman would mention him as a trade candidate. But I go back to Drake, Baldwin and Scott. I know that you and Brad have talked about it Me and Scott Steven have talked about it at Lenked as well. It just makes sense coming off the year that he had, coming off the fact that it's always hard to find these catching prospects. The Braves themselves, though, have been very good at creating these catching prospects, and they've used there and they've been willing to trade them in the past. There are a lot of boxes that have been checked before. With the type of prospect that Drake Baldwin is and with the Braves being committed to Sean Murphy, I think he makes the most sense if they're going to you, if any of these names mentioned are the prize of a package for them to go get a player that they want, Drake Baldwin stands out to me as being the guy to kind of be at the center of that package.

00:19:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, and man, it would be uh, we'd be white knuckling that deal because I mean, the Braves have moved on from a couple of young catchers in recent years, and I mean I think if if we had Alex and Thopolis on the show and maybe had a couple of drinks, I think Alex would admit that he probably would like to have the William Contreras Sean Murphy deal back if he could, And I mean that's not a hot take. Contreras has been phenomenal, and let's call it what it is. Through two years, there was about three months where Sean Murphy was awesome and since then he hasn't done a whole lot of good. He also and Thopolis also moved on from shay Langeliers, who had a better season with Oakland. He still is not a great player by any means, but again, young serviceable catchers don't just grow on trees. So if the Braves are going to move Drake Baldwin, for my money, they would have to get like a legitimate star level player back. Like, if you're gonna move on from Baldwin, you better be getting Garrett Crochet to headline the front of your rotation with Chris Sale and Spencer Strider. I mean, wouldn't that be sick? Or if you're going to trade him for a really really good outfielder or a franchise shortstop who's under control for years to come, and I think the Braves would agree. I don't think anybody is at that. Jason Hayward tier from a decade or whatever ago, whether it's like forget it, not even a prayer, or the Akunya tier from five or six years ago. I think Baldwin is below that, and I think in the right deal they would make him available and then just pray that Sean Murphy bounces back and is healthy and figures it out. But I don't think they would trade Baldwin for anything short of a legitimate star level difference maker who is also under control for multiple years.

00:20:59
Speaker 1: The control for multiple years part was the point that I was going to bring up, but you brought it up great analysis, as always, Scott, it makes perfect sense. I'm there with you, the guy that could. If they're gonna use Baldwin to go get a guy, it needs to be someone that's gonna help him out in twenty twenty five and beyond. But you mentioned the Winter meetings, and it's always really exciting to see this. Heck, just a year ago, it was that Sunday night where we, you know, I believe, on the weekend where many of us thought that the Braves were going to potentially go after another White Sox picture in Dylan Cease, they actually turned a completely different corner. I think Alex even hinted that they were potentially talking about Dylan cease, but they instead went and got Jared Keelnick last year on the Sunday night of the winter meeting. So Alex likes to strike when it makes sense. A bit more of a quiet November than it has been in the past, But I do think that it makes sense, especially as you mentioned with the Wan Sono signing likely happened in the next few days. What are you really looking for in terms of maybe what you hope versus what you expect when it comes to the Braves focus going into the meetings.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been doing a little bit of reading and Willie Adamas is really interesting to me because it seems like maybe a third of the league is interested in a Damis. But the fact is a lot of those teams have either spent money elsewhere or are looking to trim payroll, like the San Francisco Giants were heavily rumored for Adamis earlier, but now there's reporting that the Giants are trying to trim payroll. Well, you can't do both of those. You can't sign a premier shortstop and also cut your payroll back. I think we're gonna see once Won Soto signs, were really gonna have an idea of what the market is like for a damas Anthony Santander some of these better hitting free agents who are available. And I'm guessing the Braves are in on a damas he is an obvious fit. People rave about him in the clubhouse too, which is a very legitimate thing that Alex in thop list cares about. So I'm until Adamis signs with some other team, I'm gonna really kind of believe that the Braves are going to be seriously in it. They presumably have the money, as long as there's something not funky financially behind the scenes that we don't know about. And then you know, in terms of trades, we I always talk about the show that you and Steven and I did for an hour before the trade deadline trying to come up with what outfielder Alex was going to trade for, and of course he went out and got Jorge Solaire and a year ago, I don't think anybody had Chris Sale on the Braves' radar, and even the Jared Kellnick deal was like WHOA, Okay, you know, I kind of thought they'd be more interested in like a ti Oscar Hernandez on a short deal, or or one of the more obvious free agents or players who were known to be available. And if there's anything we know about Alex, it is he is a creative guy and more times than not it's worked out for him. We'll just kind of have to see who he fancies in the next week or so, and let's hope that he gets a deal done sooner rather than later, because I know, I think I speak for everyone when we are jonesing for a deal. Yeah.

00:24:10
Speaker 1: And the thing is the name you mentioned, Willia Domas as a free agent, the name that consistently comes back to me that I just would be excited about will be the addition to Walker Buehler. And one of the reasons why I say Walker Buehler, I know that he has had the recent injury concerns. But the thing that stands out to me, Scott, is that I believe it looked up this stat a little bit earlier in the off season. Since the year two thousand, of all the pitchers that have thrown seventy five or more innings in playoff baseball over the basically the past quarter century. The one with the lowest era is Garrett Cole. Number two is Walker Buehler. Number three is Chris Sale in terms of postseason era with seventy five or more innings pitch. The point that I'm getting at is is that when we talk about, yes, we've had bad injury luck when it comes to pitchers, but if you could add Walker Buhler to Chris Sale and Spencer Strider, along with Swello Mock and Ronald La you've got a lot of versai mult in the arms that have had good postseason success that you can rely on. The thing that scares me right now though, about that free agent pitching. You've just seen Frankie Montos get what three years seventeen million. You just saw Matthew Boyd get fourteen and a half million. If those guys are getting that Walker Bueler two years twenty five million, could you push for thirty million. I don't necessarily know if it would go that high, but the free agent market for starting pitching you could get really really expensive. So it just it's interesting to me. But then again, you've also got thirty plus million I believe that are coming off the books that you owe Morton as well as Freed. You could see the majority of that going towards a starting pitcher. I think Alex probably has a couple of options that he really wants to look into when it comes to short term deals for a starting pitcher, and that may be the first move that we see if it's Nathan the Evaldi or Walker Bueler. Actually it may have been Nathan the Avaldi that had that, but AnyWho, My point is, you get Nathan the Yvaldi, you get Walker Buehler on a short term high AA the deal to add two sell and Strider. That would be a great first move for this offseason for not only regular season but postseason.

00:26:06
Speaker 2: Play well, and both of those pictures feel like very legitimate braves. Alex has familiarity with Walker Buehler. He really looked good in the postseason, even though he was not great in twenty twenty four, but the stuff still look good. And he will be now six months removed even further from that elbow surgery, presumably will only help him as he builds his strength and gets more comfortable. And you know, Buehler is the first one to tell you he just didn't feel one hundred percent all season long, but as October rolled around, he felt like he hit another gear. And if if that picture exists now and is available, and there's familiarity, and he's available on a two year deal, which Alex obviously likes, I could see that. And then I think all of us on the show are big fans of Nate e of Ald. You know, he is getting a little bit older. Not that age has ever stopped Alex Nthopolis when acquiring star pitchers. Charlie is forty, Sale is in his late thirties, Cole Hamil's was thirty eight. I think Dallas Kichel was thirty four. I think when he signed him. I mean there's no age discrimination here from Alex, especially on the picture end. So both of those guys feel like real possibilities. If you tell me, we wake up one morning and it's he hit the blue square on Twitter and it's Brave sign Walker Buehler, Brave signed Nady of all the both of those feel possible to me, And clearly they have to add at least one starting pitcher, if not to this winner.

00:27:34
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and so this to me, it's Christmas come early. I know for Scott, I won't speak for the man, but I'm I'm pretty sure he always loves this time of year as well. It's always good to see it happen, especially when it comes to an active, but unpredictable but highly effective GM in Alex and Thopless. So definitely looking forward to seeing what could occur Scott. As we wrap up this edition of the Hammer Territory podcast, well, once again, good to talk with you, sir, Glad. All is going good. Owned you're in any thing else you.

00:28:00
Speaker 2: Have for us?

00:28:01
Speaker 1: As we close up this edition of Hammer Territory.

00:28:04
Speaker 2: Yeah you as well, Sean. I love we do these what was it the Coleman combo? I love it? Yeah, it was good to fill in. I hope Steven, if you're listening, I hope you're feeling better, buddy. I think the plan is for Brad and Steven to do a show a little bit later this week, and as always, whenever the Braves make a move, we will have a show, usually within a couple hours. I mean, we really do. Everyone gets excited. We get excited whenever a deal goes down and try to have that podcast ready for y'all right away. But a big thanks to everybody who was stuck with us. Through the off season. I promise you there is activity on the horizon, and even if it's not the Braves, hopefully across all of baseball we'll get some movement which really will help break the dam and make for a fun couple of weeks ahead, especially with the Winter Meetings just a few days away.

00:28:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely not only moves, but Andrew Jones Hall of Fame debates and everything else that you could possibly plus the excitement of International Signing Day and seeing what could occur there. That's the great thing about off season baseball that there's always a calendar event right around the corner to get excited about. But for Scott Coleman, my name is Sean Coleman. You can find our handles on x slash Twitter right down here. You can find Hammer Territory across all forms of social media, part of the Foul Territory family of podcasts. Great to be a part of that family. So many great baseball podcasts that are out there. Until next time for Scott Coleman again with Sean Coleman. Here go Braze. We'll talk to you again soon here on the Hammer Territory podcast.