Steve Hackett: From Genesis to Solo Greatness

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<v SPEAKER_02>My career in the entertainment industry has enabled me to work with a diverse range of talent.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Through my years of experience, I've recognized two essential aspects.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Industry professionals, whether famous stars or behind-the-scenes staff, have fascinating stories to tell.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Secondly, audiences are eager to listen to these stories, which offer a glimpse into their lives and the evolution of their life stories.

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<v SPEAKER_02>This podcast aims to share these narratives, providing information on how they evolved into their chosen career.

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<v SPEAKER_02>We will delve into their journey to stardom, discuss their struggles and successes, and hear from people who help them achieve their goals.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Get ready for intriguing behind-the-scenes stories and insights into the fascinating world of entertainment.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Welcome to Almost Live Nashville.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Steve Hackett joins us today, offering a unique opportunity to explore his tenure with the iconic band Genesis and the events that led him to become a member.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Additionally, we delve into his solo career and current endeavors, providing a comprehensive understanding of his diverse experiences.

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<v SPEAKER_02>It's a great pleasure to have him on our show, and we extend our gratitude for his time.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Thanks for joining us today.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah, yeah, very good.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Thank you.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_02>You've got such a body of work.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Do you ever sit back and reflect on all the things that you've done and then just say to yourself, wow, I did all this?

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<v SPEAKER_03>I've got a friend who makes films, and he said, achievements seem so little in retrospect.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And I think it's a very good adage to keep yourself grounded and not to think, oh well, I got to work with the great this, that, and the other, and I did this and I did that.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I reckon that um, you know, with most musicians and performers, there's always room for improvement.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So that's why we keep doing another one, another one, another one.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I'm sure you know that yourself.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, absolutely.

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<v SPEAKER_02>It's just sometimes you're sitting around rehashing the old days, and then you find that, wow, look at all the things that we've done together.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Keeps building, and then you just never thought you could ever do that when he was young.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Well, yeah, I mean, when you're a kid, my God, I mean, I I listened to Segovia, for instance, when I was 15, and I thought, my God, this is a quantum leap.

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<v SPEAKER_03>If I could have used these words, you know, from everything I'm hearing so far.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, great guitarists play single-line things, you know, never mind being able to knit extraordinarily with the right hand.

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<v SPEAKER_01>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And when I saw him playing on TV, he I thought, he's hardly moving.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And all these notes are coming out.

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<v SPEAKER_03>It's all from bar A positions.

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<v SPEAKER_03>It seems measured and leisurely.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I'm sure it wasn't, I'm sure it was probably sweating, you know, for the life of him.

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<v SPEAKER_03>But so it seemed to me.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And so I don't know how we got onto the subject of that.

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<v SPEAKER_03>But I've I've always thought when I was a kid listening to, I thought, I will never be able to play like that.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Um, little knowing that many years later I was to record precisely some of the same materials and some other bark pieces that he hadn't touched.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Every now and again, if I record a bark piece, you know that it's going to put you through the ringer in many ways.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And all you're doing is adding a footnote to the greats.

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<v SPEAKER_03>It's a bit like doing a Shakespearean thing where all those greats that preceded you.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, for sure.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You just add a footnote to it.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And that's that's on the classical side of things.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Never mind, never mind rock.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So, yeah, I mean, if if if you told me one day you're gonna play this, I would have said, get out of here.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Nah.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_02>So what was your early years like?

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<v SPEAKER_02>I know you started out fairly young.

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<v SPEAKER_02>So how did you evolve so you could be what you are today?

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<v SPEAKER_03>Well, my dad played a number of musical instruments.

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<v SPEAKER_03>He wasn't a professional musician.

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<v SPEAKER_03>He eventually became a professional artist painting paintings.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, the war years weren't necessarily kind to a lot of very creative guys like himself.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And he happened to have a very high IQ.

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<v SPEAKER_03>He could play all these instruments, and so from the age of two, I was trying to play harmonica, mouse open, just like my dad, buying me cowboy tunes to listen to and Slim Whitman records and Davy Crockett and Roy Rogers.

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<v SPEAKER_01>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, all those cowpes out there.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I loved all of that stuff, of course.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So I was playing harmonica 10 years before I touched guitar.

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<v SPEAKER_03>By the time I was 12, I was just about able to get my arms around the guitar that he had that he brought back from Canada.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And then by the time I was 14, I gave up my summer holiday to just do nothing but play guitar with a this brutal action.

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<v SPEAKER_03>He said you'll get you'll get calluses.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I never got calluses with that guitar.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I just had open wounds on my fingers.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I didn't know what was a great action, what wasn't, what was heavy gauge, what was light.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Early days, you've got to suffer to get there.

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<v SPEAKER_02>What was that first guitar?

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<v SPEAKER_02>Was that an aim brand or just something he found?

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<v SPEAKER_03>It looked like something that the Ovis might have played.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, it was a K, K-A-Y.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_03>F cello hole guitar, big round thing.

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<v SPEAKER_03>All right.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Sort of thing that country players would would play.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I found it absolutely marvelous.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, once I was able to master a few chords on it, and then a friend bought a nylon string guitar.

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<v SPEAKER_00>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And I thought, this is cheating.

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<v SPEAKER_03>This doesn't feel like barbed wire anymore.

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<v SPEAKER_03>This is gentle on the fingers.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So somewhere on the line, the penny drop, you didn't have to be in pain from the word go.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You could you could actually enjoy this thing.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, yeah, that's great.

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<v SPEAKER_02>You mentioned a few people.

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<v SPEAKER_02>So who were some of the ones that inspired you to evolve to what you have become today?

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<v SPEAKER_03>Well, you know, I think Hank Marvin of the Shadows was a big deal for all of us British guitarists from a certain time.

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<v SPEAKER_00>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I mean, he was always five years older than the guys who were five years older than me.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So the Eric Claptons and Jeff Beck's and all of those people, you know, he was that, and I got to meet him a few times and have a get together with a bunch of people we we wished him well off to when he was relocating to Australia.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And at that do, there was I was being introduced to Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, David Gilmore, Steve Howe.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I was already working with because sorry to name drop.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Not at all.

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<v SPEAKER_03>That's great.

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<v SPEAKER_03>We were already having the band GTR.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Right.

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<v SPEAKER_03>We'd formed that, and and that took off for us big time in the States.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, that was really good.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So that was interesting, just shortly after I'd left Genesis.

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<v SPEAKER_03>That was uh something that took us.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I'm I'm glad to see.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, for sure.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Now, how did you start writing songs?

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<v SPEAKER_02>Did that happen over a period of time?

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<v SPEAKER_02>So, how did that transition happen for you?

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<v SPEAKER_03>Well, I think I became aware that that when I'd seen King Crimson, uh, I saw them in 1969, just before they played in the court the Crimson King.

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<v SPEAKER_00>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And the the thing that struck me about that was they were coming up with songs that had great long instrumental passages.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Great, great singing, but great long instrumental passages.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And of course, to an instrumental this you know, instrumentalist, this was cla a clarion call.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I came to know over time, um, most importantly, Ian McDonald, who'd been really, I think, the prime writer with them, along with Pete Sinfield.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I wouldn't say that he mentored me, but he gave me one or two ideas and he was very encouraging and seemed to like what I was doing.

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<v SPEAKER_03>That's nice.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Then he was about, he'd left Crimson, he was just about to go off and form Foreigner, of course.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And we kept up contact, uh, my late great pal, and that was really wonderful.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I I I I was thrilled that he liked what I did because I was so impressed with what he could do.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And uh shortly I was to join Genesis.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, I heard that come from an ad in a paper or something along that line.

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<v SPEAKER_03>After five years of advertising in the back pages of Melody Maker, I got a call from Peter Gabriel, who was lead the lead singer of Genesis, and they wanted someone who could write.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And I'd advertise myself already as a writer, so it was aspirational rather than uh anything in concrete at that point.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I wanted to be a writer, but that was that was the whole point.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Genesis wanted someone who could play electric guitar, 12 string, and could write.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So I I laid claim to all those three things.

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<v SPEAKER_02>So that actually put the pressure on you, and you had to step up to the plate and do some of the things that you said you could do.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Yes, that's right.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah, it that was important.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Phil Collins joined the band three months before I did.

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<v SPEAKER_03>They were up and running doing gigs with him.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, that was good that you got a chance to join them all together like that.

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<v SPEAKER_02>And most importantly, they had some work.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Charisma Records, our record company, were putting three acts on for the price of fish and chips.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You could go and see Lindisfarne, Venograph Generator, and Genesis.

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<v SPEAKER_03>We were the opening act of the opening act.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, I've seen that happen many times.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Uh it was a kind of shock to me because I, you know, I've been a legend in my own bedroom up to that point.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And and uh I'd done damn old gigs, and suddenly we were playing to full houses in town halls throughout the UK, and it was a kind of yes, had to step up to the plate, as you as you so rightly put it.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_02>So once you joined Genesis and all the dominoes started falling in place, like they did.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, what was that experience like for you?

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<v SPEAKER_02>When we're young, we always anticipate and dream upon what we can do.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_02>And then we hope that we can get there.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Then all of a sudden you are there.

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<v SPEAKER_02>So what was that like for you?

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<v SPEAKER_03>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Uh thrilling and terrifying in so many ways.

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<v SPEAKER_03>There's something about it, isn't it?

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, you want this thing, you want it, you want it, want it.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Exactly.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And then suddenly you're there, and there's gonna be some times where nerves are gonna get the better of you, and other times when you think I could lay imposter syndrome to one side and say, Yeah, no, I'm I'm all right.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Enough people were saying to me, No, you're right for the band, you're good for this.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And I'd come up with certain techniques, and then John Lennon started saying nice things about the band, which was absolutely lovely, but there was no social media, you couldn't make use of that at the time.

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<v SPEAKER_03>So closely guarded secrets.

00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:58.799
<v SPEAKER_03>So you know, Lennon would do the odd interview and mention us more than once, which was very, very nice, saying we were true sons of the Beatles.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And I look back on some of the early Genesis stuff, and I can see, I can see the influence, of course.

00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.279
<v SPEAKER_03>You know, that that's fairly obvious.

00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:12.320
<v SPEAKER_03>In fact, our first hit single was based on a guitar riff that I had.

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:18.000
<v SPEAKER_03>And uh in 1972, some of the guys in the band were saying, Oh, that sounds a little bit too close to the Beatles.

00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:18.720
<v SPEAKER_03>We shouldn't use that.

00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.320
<v SPEAKER_03>Following year, I'm still jamming away on the same riff with Phil.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Everyone jams together, a song comes out of it, and that's our first hit single, I know what I like.

00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.960
<v SPEAKER_03>So um, a kind of homage to the Beatles, very British in so many ways.

00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:34.720
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, that makes sense.

00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:40.240
<v SPEAKER_02>So as you grew with Genesis, and then Genesis grew within itself, yeah.

00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.320
<v SPEAKER_02>It doesn't matter what level you're at.

00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.679
<v SPEAKER_02>There's always going to be ups and downs, good and bad days.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Sure.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Everybody certainly has them.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Sure.

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<v SPEAKER_02>What are a couple of the good ones that you'll always remember about being with Genesis in those years that you performed with them?

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<v SPEAKER_03>There are a couple of shows that I remember.

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<v SPEAKER_03>I do remember playing in LA for the first time at the Roxy Club, doing two shows a night and three nights.

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<v SPEAKER_03>And uh we weren't selling out anywhere else, but for some reason LA really seemed to uh seemed to get it with us.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Another time in America again, doing Madison Square Garden in 77, yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Uh, where from the very first note the whole of the audience stood up.

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<v SPEAKER_03>It was a great feeling.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You can't you can't buy those moments.

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<v SPEAKER_03>That's right.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Similar thing happened in in Glasgow when we had equipment problems and we couldn't put on our show, and so we postponed it.

00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:42.080
<v SPEAKER_03>We came back a couple of weeks later, and I thought that you know the the the Glasgow audience got to be really angry and stoneless.

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<v SPEAKER_03>But no, it was again this thing on Effie, thrilled to have us, and that was a great, great feeling.

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<v SPEAKER_02>Not a lot better than that kind of feeling for sure.

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<v SPEAKER_03>Wonderful there.

00:12:53.200 --> 00:13:07.360
<v SPEAKER_03>So um those feelings of you know, when you get the ultimate sanction from the audience, it's not the amount of records you sell, it's not about the numbers, it's about the real emotional impact of something.

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<v SPEAKER_03>You know, you find your aspirations find their echo within the response of the audience, and it all becomes one and it's a wonderful, wonderful moment.

00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:19.519
<v SPEAKER_02>It's about the music, that's what sells it.

00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:21.440
<v SPEAKER_03>That's that's it, yes, that's right.

00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:22.320
<v SPEAKER_03>It's about the music.

00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.120
<v SPEAKER_03>It's it the music is its own currency, you know.

00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:32.639
<v SPEAKER_03>Even if I never earned another penny from from gigs or from selling, you know, it's about, as I say, it pays you back.

00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:33.440
<v SPEAKER_02>That's right.

00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.000
<v SPEAKER_03>The spirit of the music is priceless.

00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:36.799
<v SPEAKER_02>Absolutely.

00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:44.720
<v SPEAKER_03>The spirit of the response, all of that, these are things that no amount of marketing can replace that direct contact.

00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:45.919
<v SPEAKER_02>Yes, for sure.

00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:54.159
<v SPEAKER_02>Now, you mentioned the elation of being on stage, but you also mentioned the horror of being on stage.

00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:54.799
<v SPEAKER_02>Sure.

00:13:55.039 --> 00:14:01.120
<v SPEAKER_02>So you must have had those same feelings when you decided to embark on your solo career.

00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:14.799
<v SPEAKER_03>Well, I I did an album when I was still with Genesis in 1975, and then by at some point in 77, I decided to leave the band, take the chance, and doing my first show, which may have been in Oslo.

00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.960
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm not sure if it was Oslo Oslo or Gothenburg, but terrifying.

00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:20.240
<v SPEAKER_02>I can just imagine.

00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:28.480
<v SPEAKER_03>You know, either this show is gonna go well and I'm gonna have a career, or it's gonna be thumbs down, feed him to the lions.

00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.200
<v SPEAKER_03>Luckily, it was thumbs up.

00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:32.799
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah, that was great.

00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.519
<v SPEAKER_03>Because it happened once on that show.

00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.919
<v SPEAKER_03>I realized we could do it again multiple times.

00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:45.600
<v SPEAKER_03>There was a great response to the band at that time, a great response to the subsequent album that we were gonna do, which was Spectrum Warnings.

00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:49.039
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh, and it just seemed to go up and up and up, and that was an extraordinary thing.

00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:51.120
<v SPEAKER_03>So I still love playing live.

00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:55.440
<v SPEAKER_03>I I noticed that John Mayle something that he'd said recently.

00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:00.000
<v SPEAKER_03>I used to go and see him when I was 16, when he was a grand old man of 33.

00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.559
<v SPEAKER_03>We thought he was ancient at that time.

00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.399
<v SPEAKER_03>How could he get up there at that age and do that?

00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:05.440
<v SPEAKER_03>Isn't that marvelous?

00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.799
<v SPEAKER_03>Um, he said something about, you know, he said, I really like being on the road.

00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:18.080
<v SPEAKER_03>He liked doing gigs, and the joy of that, I think, communicated from those early days right up to basically his end.

00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:27.519
<v SPEAKER_03>You know, um, he's cut of the same cloth as all the great blues men of all time, and what an incredible career he had.

00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:28.559
<v SPEAKER_02>Absolutely.

00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:41.440
<v SPEAKER_02>Now, one thing that I think happened for you is when you left Genesis, it allowed you to become a more complete player because you were allowed to do whatever you wanted to do, and you embraced it.

00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:42.480
<v SPEAKER_03>Yes, it did.

00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:44.879
<v SPEAKER_03>It meant that I could work with other people.

00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:49.679
<v SPEAKER_03>I was ready to work with others from different backgrounds and cultures.

00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:53.200
<v SPEAKER_03>Um, almost immediately, I'd befriended uh Richie Havens.

00:15:53.519 --> 00:16:01.279
<v SPEAKER_03>He and I started to work together, and uh that was wonderful for me because all of the guys in Genesis revered Richie Havens.

00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.159
<v SPEAKER_03>We'd done gigs with him, we were the support act.

00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:11.600
<v SPEAKER_03>He was, after we'd been talking for a while, and I'd invited him to my home and what have you, he suggested that we work together.

00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.799
<v SPEAKER_03>And I was thrilled with that again, you know.

00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:16.720
<v SPEAKER_03>Oh, the great man wants to work.

00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:27.679
<v SPEAKER_03>And when we eventually did in in in uh Cherokee Studios in Los Angeles, he'd flown over from New York, and same day he wanted to go straight in the studio, worked all night with me.

00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:36.240
<v SPEAKER_03>I was worried that he was gonna tire and I was gonna finish him off, but he was just running on enthusiasm and everything, and he was truly great.

00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.480
<v SPEAKER_03>He sort of took over proceedings.

00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:43.039
<v SPEAKER_03>We did one song, he told me how we should do it because I wasn't used to recording with other people.

00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.600
<v SPEAKER_03>He said, Well, you come out on the studio floor with me.

00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.080
<v SPEAKER_03>We got the back in track order recording.

00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:48.480
<v SPEAKER_03>Sure.

00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:53.759
<v SPEAKER_03>And if you're a few feet away from me, then you can tell me when I'm getting it right and not.

00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:58.399
<v SPEAKER_03>And uh he's learning it on the spot, and he's looking to me for approval.

00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.080
<v SPEAKER_03>And I've always thought it was a bit like God looking to you for approval.

00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.119
<v SPEAKER_03>And I'm going, Yeah, great, wonderful.

00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:10.640
<v SPEAKER_03>And then at the end of that song, and he does an incredible performance on Icarus Ascending.

00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:12.480
<v SPEAKER_03>We uh, the please don't touch it on.

00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:14.400
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh he said, Have you got any other songs?

00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:19.599
<v SPEAKER_03>And I had, oh, you know, the B side of a cassette that I was embarrassed about playing in.

00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.440
<v SPEAKER_03>And I said, Well, I've got this one.

00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.880
<v SPEAKER_03>He said, Well, let's have a listen.

00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:24.079
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah, we should do that.

00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:30.000
<v SPEAKER_03>Okay, he says, What you do is you go out with the acoustic guitars with 12-string guitar.

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.079
<v SPEAKER_03>He said, I'll play percussion at the same time.

00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:39.200
<v SPEAKER_03>He's got a cigarette in his mouth, he's got a Truby hat on, he's playing maracas in one hand, uh, tambourine in the other.

00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.480
<v SPEAKER_03>We just got into this groove, and it all went through.

00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:51.920
<v SPEAKER_03>He relaxed me, went through, and he did vocals immediately afterwards, and it sounded like we'd been working on this stuff for years.

00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:53.440
<v SPEAKER_03>It was just so good.

00:17:53.599 --> 00:18:02.079
<v SPEAKER_03>I have to say, out of all the vocalists I've ever worked with, he had a power and a presence and uh and a focus to die for.

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:08.720
<v SPEAKER_03>Because all that guy ever needed was an acoustic guitar to sit down and entertain half a million people, as we well know.

00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:09.759
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, for sure.

00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.680
<v SPEAKER_02>Now, you bring up acoustic, you've done acoustic, you've done electric.

00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:19.920
<v SPEAKER_02>So you've got those settings where it's just an acoustic, laid-back situation and atmosphere.

00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:24.720
<v SPEAKER_02>Then you've got the electric, which you can do with a band, which gives you more power.

00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:26.400
<v SPEAKER_02>So, do you have a favorite?

00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.960
<v SPEAKER_03>Well, you know, I I like doing both.

00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.759
<v SPEAKER_03>When you're live with an acoustic guitar, there's nowhere to hide.

00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:32.160
<v SPEAKER_02>Right.

00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.160
<v SPEAKER_03>So you screw up, everyone knows.

00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:34.640
<v SPEAKER_03>That's right.

00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:41.119
<v SPEAKER_03>With an electric guitar, you got a whole band and one chord and one note, fill the auditorium, whatever it is.

00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:48.160
<v SPEAKER_03>Um, there is safety in numbers, but then there's also the aspect of the power of the ensemble.

00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.160
<v SPEAKER_03>That can't be underestimated.

00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.400
<v SPEAKER_03>Um, because we always think in terms of guitarists, lead guitarists, blah blah blah blah.

00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:54.799
<v SPEAKER_03>Yes.

00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:03.920
<v SPEAKER_03>But part of the art of writing is to convey things that will work to the strengths of others that you're working towards.

00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:05.039
<v SPEAKER_02>Collaboration.

00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:05.599
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah.

00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:15.359
<v SPEAKER_03>Um, and that was something that I think that struck me with King Crimson, you know, that the precision, but but the power of the ensemble, all going in a schizoid band like Mala.

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.319
<v SPEAKER_03>That was a hugely impressive.

00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.359
<v SPEAKER_03>A whole band soloing all at once, or so it seemed.

00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.920
<v SPEAKER_03>No passengers, everyone a star.

00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:29.599
<v SPEAKER_03>And I think when I joined Genesis, I was really looking for a band that would be able to do that.

00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.720
<v SPEAKER_03>And I think we managed to attract their attention sufficiently.

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.160
<v SPEAKER_03>I befriended Robert.

00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.359
<v SPEAKER_03>Robert befriended Peter Gabriel, was to work with him.

00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:42.079
<v SPEAKER_03>And so I think British bands at some point they started to become each other, it seems to me.

00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.759
<v SPEAKER_03>You know, I ended up working with a lot of the King Crimson guys over time.

00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.240
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh, a lot of the guys from Yes over time.

00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:53.119
<v SPEAKER_03>So Genesis and Yes and King Crimson all sort of meet up with me somewhere in the middle.

00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.000
<v SPEAKER_03>And many other bands, of course, that I've played with since.

00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.200
<v SPEAKER_03>But I've been working with Steve Rothery and Marillion.

00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.559
<v SPEAKER_03>We've been doing a sort of two-guitar thing recently.

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.160
<v SPEAKER_03>And um, a couple of days ago we were working on that over the weekend.

00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:14.079
<v SPEAKER_03>So that's been very interesting to see how that's shaping up out of out of jams, but it's becoming more and more cohesive as it as it runs.

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:15.279
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, right.

00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.799
<v SPEAKER_02>So you brought up songwriting here just a short time ago.

00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:19.279
<v SPEAKER_02>Sure.

00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.079
<v SPEAKER_02>These three things have different emotions to it.

00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:22.640
<v SPEAKER_02>Sure.

00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.680
<v SPEAKER_02>Songwriting, recording, or performing.

00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:27.759
<v SPEAKER_02>Which one is your favorite to do?

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.720
<v SPEAKER_03>Well, they're all great for different reasons.

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:31.680
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, sure.

00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.519
<v SPEAKER_03>It's lovely to write something that you think is a really good song.

00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:39.599
<v SPEAKER_03>It's it's even better when you get it recorded and you hear it back and you think, oh wow.

00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.759
<v SPEAKER_03>Now, if you can take that to the masses, yeah.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:46.880
<v SPEAKER_03>If you can perform that thing as well, uh, that's something else again.

00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.279
<v SPEAKER_03>There's a responsibility that goes with it, of course, you know.

00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:49.680
<v SPEAKER_03>Right.

00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.799
<v SPEAKER_03>The responsibility for being everyone else's night out.

00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:54.799
<v SPEAKER_03>That that thing.

00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.440
<v SPEAKER_03>So there's a way there's always the the price to pay.

00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:07.680
<v SPEAKER_03>So there's that sort of, oh, I don't want to fall off the horse and hit a bum note, but it's it's inevitable that every now and again there's gonna be uh there's gonna be a brown note or two.

00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:08.720
<v SPEAKER_03>It's inevitable.

00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:10.720
<v SPEAKER_03>It just it just happens.

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:16.720
<v SPEAKER_03>But uh, I mean, um after a gig, I'm always the first to admit when I've screwed up something.

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.200
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, unfortunately, we've all been there.

00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.359
<v SPEAKER_03>They're all being there that that feeling.

00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.759
<v SPEAKER_03>I I think that Peter Green was the same.

00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:28.160
<v SPEAKER_03>So that a whole gig would be ruined for him because he played one bum note.

00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:30.799
<v SPEAKER_03>But what about the notes he got right?

00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:32.559
<v SPEAKER_03>You know, that that thing, yeah.

00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.480
<v SPEAKER_03>So, you know, we can be very unforgiving of each other, can't we?

00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:37.359
<v SPEAKER_03>Of ourselves.

00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:38.720
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, exactly.

00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.440
<v SPEAKER_02>Now, with everything that you've done, you had another accolade, and that was induction into the rock and roll hall of fame.

00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:47.680
<v SPEAKER_02>So that must have been a pretty exciting night.

00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:53.920
<v SPEAKER_03>When the evening started off, it seemed very stiff and starchy, and no one was quite sure of anyone else and what have you.

00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.759
<v SPEAKER_03>But as the night wore on, and people were being honored, and people were getting up and doing marvelous performances.

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:08.000
<v SPEAKER_03>And and what have you, and writers were being celebrated, some of whom had shuffled off this mortal coil.

00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:26.720
<v SPEAKER_03>I realized what a great institution it was that doesn't just celebrate fashion and your latest hit, but the people that brought you your childhood, the people that wrote these great tunes when you weren't aware of what was pop music, certainly not as pejorative.

00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:28.559
<v SPEAKER_03>You just thought, oh, yes.

00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:35.039
<v SPEAKER_03>The great songs that Roy Orbison brought us, the great songs that so many brought us.

00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:42.240
<v SPEAKER_03>So on the night we were being inducted as Genesis, ABBA were also being inducted, and there were some great speeches from people.

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:42.640
<v SPEAKER_01>Yeah.

00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.599
<v SPEAKER_03>It became a very emotional evening.

00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:53.279
<v SPEAKER_03>Genesis didn't perform, but I know that Phil was out of his chair clapping along, and he just wanted to be so much part of it.

00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:54.160
<v SPEAKER_03>I could see it.

00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:59.519
<v SPEAKER_03>And he started dancing, and you know, it was a very, very emotional affair.

00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:04.480
<v SPEAKER_03>And I was able to connect with some people who I thought were just brilliant.

00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:06.960
<v SPEAKER_03>And so it became a celebration.

00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:07.519
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah.

00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.559
<v SPEAKER_03>I think it's a great, a great American institution.

00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:12.799
<v SPEAKER_03>It's a great international institution.

00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:22.799
<v SPEAKER_03>I don't think we've got anything quite like that in Britain where we seem to be obsessed with uh the latest, whatever it might be, rather than the best, whether they're with us still or not.

00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:28.880
<v SPEAKER_03>And so I thought it was great that uh the Paul Butterfield Blues band was celebrated posthumously.

00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:38.880
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh Paul Butterfield, great harmonica mentor of mine, Mike Bloomfield, who'd work with Dylan as well as the Butterfield band, you know, great, great player, wonderful.

00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:40.799
<v SPEAKER_03>I'd seen them live in the mid-60s.

00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.200
<v SPEAKER_03>Wonderful to see that they they were inducted.

00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.480
<v SPEAKER_03>And yes, the British band, yes, were to be.

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:50.480
<v SPEAKER_03>Unfortunately, post Chris Squire, he wanted to come along to the night.

00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.000
<v SPEAKER_03>We were there, and I couldn't get him a ticket.

00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:53.519
<v SPEAKER_03>It was just, it was impossible.

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:59.359
<v SPEAKER_03>And he got to go to the Hall of Fame in one way or another, but unfortunately, not in his lifetime.

00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:00.400
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, yeah.

00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.240
<v SPEAKER_03>So you're on tour now, right?

00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:02.880
<v SPEAKER_03>That's right.

00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.160
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm gonna be on tour with the Jarby guys in Hungary.

00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.240
<v SPEAKER_03>I've just done some European stuff.

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.200
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm doing some more European later in the year.

00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.359
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm gonna be doing uh a British show that's coming up soon, November, October.

00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:18.240
<v SPEAKER_03>Yes.

00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.720
<v SPEAKER_03>So, and then I'm back to Italy and Spain and then Portugal.

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:24.319
<v SPEAKER_03>So it's a busy life.

00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.519
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm all over the show.

00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:27.279
<v SPEAKER_03>You coming to the States at all?

00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.799
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah, I have been to the States earlier in the year.

00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.480
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh we'll be going back.

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.319
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm trying to remember whether it's in the spring or the fall, I'm not sure.

00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:37.680
<v SPEAKER_03>But we're coming back.

00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:39.519
<v SPEAKER_03>We are coming out in the States, yeah.

00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:39.839
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah.

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.000
<v SPEAKER_03>I've seen some potential dates.

00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.200
<v SPEAKER_03>I think we're doing about six or seven weeks, I believe.

00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:46.799
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, that's great.

00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:47.200
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah.

00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.359
<v SPEAKER_02>So when you're not touring and you've got some downtime.

00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:51.839
<v SPEAKER_02>Yep.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.839
<v SPEAKER_02>What do you do just to chill and just lay back and think of nothing?

00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:56.799
<v SPEAKER_03>You know what?

00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.480
<v SPEAKER_03>That there hasn't been time to have downtime.

00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.480
<v SPEAKER_03>You know, my wife and I were saying this today.

00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:10.880
<v SPEAKER_03>Wouldn't it be nice just to because it's a glorious summer's day here, be nice to sort of go wandering off, but she's hurt her foot, so that's not gonna happen.

00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:12.000
<v SPEAKER_02>Oh, that's too bad.

00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:14.079
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh it's too hot to sit in the garden.

00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.480
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh, so um it it's another day doing the other thing.

00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:20.400
<v SPEAKER_03>So I don't have too much time.

00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:25.279
<v SPEAKER_03>I'm I'm usually, you know, here's me, you know, high pressure salesman.

00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:27.279
<v SPEAKER_03>This is it.

00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:28.799
<v SPEAKER_03>We don't have a lot of time off.

00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:32.240
<v SPEAKER_03>I do have books that I've I've I've read, written by pals.

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.079
<v SPEAKER_03>Uh I've got one or two friends who are great, great writers.

00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:43.279
<v SPEAKER_03>And I did a foreword for one of them, a book by Mike Barnes called A New Day Yesterday about progressive rock.

00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:48.720
<v SPEAKER_03>Very, very good book, very well written, very analytical, very funny as well.

00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:49.680
<v SPEAKER_03>Really, really good.

00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.440
<v SPEAKER_03>Have you uh done your bio yet?

00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:52.319
<v SPEAKER_03>Yeah, I have.

00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:52.960
<v SPEAKER_03>I've done that.

00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:54.480
<v SPEAKER_03>That's been out there, yes.

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:55.519
<v SPEAKER_03>It has indeed.

00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.160
<v SPEAKER_03>Yes.

00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:57.759
<v SPEAKER_02>Okay, that's great.

00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.160
<v SPEAKER_02>So let's lighten it up a little bit here.

00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:02.319
<v SPEAKER_02>What's your favorite movie?

00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:03.680
<v SPEAKER_03>Favorite movie?

00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:05.599
<v SPEAKER_03>Oh, I absolutely love.

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:11.039
<v SPEAKER_03>There's a British black and white comedy from about 1950 called The Year of My Birth.

00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.359
<v SPEAKER_03>It's called Kind Hearts and Coronets.

00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:13.920
<v SPEAKER_02>Okay.

00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.920
<v SPEAKER_03>It's one of the E-ling comedies.

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:16.960
<v SPEAKER_03>Oh, very good.

00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:18.640
<v SPEAKER_03>It's like an Oscar Wilde play.

00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:19.119
<v SPEAKER_02>Okay.

00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:20.319
<v SPEAKER_03>It's very, very good.

00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:21.119
<v SPEAKER_02>All right.

00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:22.799
<v SPEAKER_03>Favorite song?

00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:23.920
<v SPEAKER_03>Favorite song?

00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.039
<v SPEAKER_03>Oh, I have to say probably MacArthur Park.

00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:28.400
<v SPEAKER_03>I really love that, you know.

00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.279
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, great song.

00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:30.160
<v SPEAKER_02>Jimmy Whip.

00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:30.720
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah.

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:31.200
<v SPEAKER_03>Yes.

00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:32.480
<v SPEAKER_02>Yeah, great guy.

00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:33.519
<v SPEAKER_03>Great writer.

00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.160
<v SPEAKER_02>Oh, yeah.

00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:35.759
<v SPEAKER_02>He's very, very good.

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:36.319
<v SPEAKER_02>Okay.

00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:37.359
<v SPEAKER_02>Favorite band.

00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:38.240
<v SPEAKER_03>Favorite band?

00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:39.519
<v SPEAKER_03>Oh, probably it's Beatles.

00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:41.119
<v SPEAKER_03>Why, why, why Bent's words?

00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:41.759
<v SPEAKER_03>Beatles?

00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.279
<v SPEAKER_03>Can't really beat them, you know?

00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:44.160
<v SPEAKER_02>Absolutely.

00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.279
<v SPEAKER_02>So I have to say I really appreciate you coming on.

00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:47.920
<v SPEAKER_02>Thank you.

00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:49.200
<v SPEAKER_02>It's been really good.

00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.240
<v SPEAKER_02>Great conversation and just great talking to you.

00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:53.039
<v SPEAKER_02>You too.

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:53.759
<v SPEAKER_02>Absolutely.

00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:54.559
<v SPEAKER_02>I appreciate it.

00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:55.519
<v SPEAKER_03>Time flies.

00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:55.920
<v SPEAKER_03>Okay.

00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:56.640
<v SPEAKER_03>All the best.

00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:57.039
<v SPEAKER_03>Thank you.

00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:58.319
<v SPEAKER_02>Yes, it's been great.

00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.279
<v SPEAKER_02>Thanks again.

00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.960
<v SPEAKER_02>Thanks for joining us today.

00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.119
<v SPEAKER_02>We hope you enjoyed the show.

00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.200
<v SPEAKER_02>This has been a Tony Mantor production.

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:22.000
<v SPEAKER_02>For more information, contact media at plateau music.com.