From quantum curiosity to quantum computers: the 2025 Nobel Prize for Physics

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly

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podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston.

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In this episode, we're going to chat about

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the 2025

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Nobel Prize for Physics,

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which has been awarded to three

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pioneers in the field of superconducting

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quantum circuits.

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But first, I'd like to acknowledge

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the generous support of American

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Elements

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for this episode.

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American Elements,

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the world's manufacturer of engineered and advanced materials.

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American elements,

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now invent.

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On Tuesday morning, John Clark,

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Michelle Devoret,

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and John Martinez

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bagged this year's Nobel Prize for Physics

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for the discovery

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of macroscopic

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quantum mechanical tunneling

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and energy quantization

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in an electric circuit.

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That circuit was a superconducting

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device called a Josephson junction,

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and their work, which was done in the

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nineteen eighties,

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has led directly

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to a leading family of nascent

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quantum computers

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that are being developed by tech giants and

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startups alike.

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These use superconducting

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circuits as quantum bits, and their physical form,

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resembling

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a glittering

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copper chandelier,

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has become an icon of quantum computing.

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To chat about this year's laureates and the

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wide reaching

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scientific and technological

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consequences of their work,

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I'm joined by Ilana Whisby,

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who is a quantum physicist,

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deep tech entrepreneur,

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and former

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CEO

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of Oxford

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Quantum Circuits.

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Hi, Ilana.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

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Yeah. Thanks for coming on, Alana.

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You know, when when we thought about

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how to cover this in the podcast, I

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was really keen

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on getting somebody,

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with a sort of industrial

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commercial background

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and a bit of experience with the sort

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of quantum technology

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that these, three laureates developed. Because I know

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it's, you know, it's it's it's had a

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very important

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implications

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in the, sort of, quantum computing industry. So

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it's really great,

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to have you on.

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And as someone who's worked with superconducting

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qubits, I'm guessing that you're very pleased with

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this Nobel Prize. You seemed very pleased yesterday

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when I first contacted you about it.

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Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the whole the whole

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field, the whole ecosystem is obviously delighted. I

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can probably talk on behalf of them

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at that point in time.

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I mean, really because the prize recognises,

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the experiment, really, that was a foundation for

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turning

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a theory about atoms

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into the field we have today with, superconducting

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quantum circuits, which

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underpins quantum computing and and so, so many

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other things. So, yeah, we're certainly absolutely, absolutely

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delighted, especially

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considering,

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it's the international year of quantum.

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So I think the timing as well is

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is particularly,

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particularly poignant for us.

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That's right. Yeah. I it's we we you

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know, on Physics World, we do make predictions

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every year about who's going to win the

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the Nobel Prize. And,

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and this year, you know, I think possibly

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influenced by the fact that it is the

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International Year of Quantum Science and Technology.

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We did go for a quantum prize, but,

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of course, we got we we we were

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completely wrong. We we thought it was gonna

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be quantum

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algorithms, you know, the theory

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of quantum computing. And instead, of course, it

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was the exact opposite.

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It was the people who did the hard

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work,

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and and built,

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I suppose, the the some of the earliest,

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qubits.

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So

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can you explain how the work done in

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the eighties by Clark,

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Devore,

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and Martinez

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has led to the superconducting

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qubits and processors

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that we have today. So what did they

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do back then? And and, how did it

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lead to,

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the quantum computers of today?

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Yeah. I mean, I can I can certainly

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do my best to whiz you through a

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little bit of history, but also then, of

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course, the impact that it's had, in shaping

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today's industry as well as kind of fields?

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But

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I think maybe if I zoom out and

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do a bit of history first,

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but before I do that, that verdict upfront,

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what they actually did,

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between Clark, Taberae, and Martinez is prove effectively

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that a manmade

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electronic circuit,

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can behave as one quantum object.

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So that single result is really what has

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led us to be able to engineer,

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quantum behaviour on chips, which is obviously the

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field of superconducting

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quantum circuits,

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which underpins

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a huge amount of the quantum computing industry

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and and how it runs today.

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So we just take a a quick step

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back. But before the nineteen eighties, I think

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it's probably worth putting it a little bit

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into context of what we knew

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already, kind of the ecosystem that they were

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operating in.

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So if we start they had superconductivity.

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Right? That was understood,

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that you could cool materials and electrons

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pair up and flow in kind of Cooper

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pairs. So it was like ECS theory. This

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was kind of already a theory that was

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understood and actually earned the 1972

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Nobel Prize.

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There was also this other additional,

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concept that wasn't just a concept or a

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theory. It was also demonstrated in experimentation.

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And that was

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that those Cooper pairs can start tunnelling

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and you can use tunnelling as a tool.

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What that really means is that this kind

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of quantum mechanical effect allows particles to slip

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through barriers.

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And it was used as this measuring

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instrument.

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In semiconductors,

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it was shown in in devices there. There

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was also tunnel junctions for spectrometers

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in the superconducting kind of energy gap piece.

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And of course, Brian Josephson

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had first predicted

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that there was this superconducting

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insulator,

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superconducting

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kind of stack that could be created,

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which we call the the Josephson junction,

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in which pairs of electrons could tunnel

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together,

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in a a zero voltage super current. And,

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effectively, you can have,

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this kind of tunnelling effect. And that was

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demonstrated

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already within what we call SQUIDs,

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which were very, very sensitive,

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magnetometers.

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And again, that one was also recognized by

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the 1973

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Nobel prize. So I think all of this

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is really useful background

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context,

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as to the environment,

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that these three were kind of operating in.

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But the question that

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they really went out to answer was was

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a bigger question. It was like, can

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an electrical circuit itself

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show

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unmistakably

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quantum behavior

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in the same way

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that an atom does?

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And that question is super important because if

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the answer to that is yes, which effectively

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they were able to go out and prove,

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then

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that would basically mean you can create

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human

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artificial

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atoms

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mechanically engineered through

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electronic circuits.

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So.

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Really

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the team, when the three guys were over

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in Berkeley, they asked that question.

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And

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that question was really at that point in

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time, can it behave like a single quantum

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object? And what they did was they ran

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very tightly shielded, very kind of complex

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engineering to fully characterise this kind of experiment.

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And what they were able to prove is

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is two key facts that classical physics

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could not explain.

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The first was this concept of macroscopic quantum

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tunneling. So below

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specific temperature, they had this so that you

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can't put it into context. They had a

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superconducting

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circuit,

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probably within

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a a cryostat,

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a a very cool type,

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environment where you had your,

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your your metal, in a a superconducting,

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low TC manner.

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And what they were able to do was

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create an engineer,

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single trace in junction.

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And through that trace in junction, they were

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able to demonstrate the rate at which the

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device,

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leaves a non zero voltage state becomes independent

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on temperature.

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And what that was proving was that if

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it were an ordinary kind of thermal escape

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of this experiment they were doing,

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then colder wouldn't always been slower and it

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didn't. So this was the first point is

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that they were to prove this macroscopic quantum

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tunneling existed

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within that type of, of, of environment. The

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second

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was this discrete energy step in the circuit,

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which really underpins this nonlinearity

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for creating an artificial atom. So what they

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were able to do was apply

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these precise kind of microwave

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tones, I. E, specific microwave frequencies

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to this junction.

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And the device would would be able to

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identify, okay, this voltage change, this Cooper pair

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tunneling

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at specific frequencies at the right harmonics

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exactly where the quantum theory predicted it at.

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And they were, of course, able to do

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that reproducibly

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with, you know, significant rigor and show effectively

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sorry, it's hard to explain without going a

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little bit,

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kind of into the quantum physics, but the,

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the phase is a collective variable on this

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device, which contains billions of electrons has actually

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got quantum

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quantized

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energy and tunnels.

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So effectively proving out

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in experimentation,

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the quantum mechanics

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from atoms and ions

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to

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engineered

287
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:24,490
superconducting circuits. And this is absolutely

288
00:10:25,029 --> 00:10:26,009
Nobel Prize

289
00:10:26,504 --> 00:10:29,165
worthy. Right? Seeing quantum behaviour

290
00:10:29,545 --> 00:10:31,245
demonstrated in a macroscopic

291
00:10:32,425 --> 00:10:33,565
manmade circuit,

292
00:10:34,105 --> 00:10:36,045
not just in kind of microscopic

293
00:10:36,504 --> 00:10:39,565
particles as we'd understood it before. Absolutely huge.

294
00:10:39,980 --> 00:10:42,860
The fact that there was complete kind of

295
00:10:42,860 --> 00:10:43,360
unambiguity

296
00:10:44,299 --> 00:10:45,440
in the evidence,

297
00:10:46,620 --> 00:10:49,740
both the temperature independent escape, as well as

298
00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:51,279
that microwave resolved

299
00:10:51,659 --> 00:10:54,319
step, they rule out classical explanations.

300
00:10:55,304 --> 00:10:57,705
And then of course, most importantly, from my

301
00:10:57,705 --> 00:10:59,725
perspective, the impact that that has,

302
00:11:00,105 --> 00:11:01,004
it unlocks

303
00:11:01,705 --> 00:11:03,884
a toolkit, a mindset that,

304
00:11:04,504 --> 00:11:07,225
Devray in particular was able to take on

305
00:11:07,225 --> 00:11:10,445
and really became the foundation for circuit QED,

306
00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:12,580
circuit quantum electrodynamics,

307
00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:16,419
which is really the foundations for modern superconducting

308
00:11:16,959 --> 00:11:17,459
qubits,

309
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,459
quantum limited amplifiers.

310
00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:22,100
And a part which actually

311
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,240
I really want to touch on as well

312
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:24,740
is

313
00:11:25,424 --> 00:11:26,485
the human aspect.

314
00:11:26,865 --> 00:11:29,184
If we, if we look at kind of

315
00:11:29,184 --> 00:11:31,205
the, the, the way that these

316
00:11:31,745 --> 00:11:32,485
three individuals

317
00:11:32,865 --> 00:11:35,044
both ran their research group,

318
00:11:36,225 --> 00:11:39,125
across Berkeley, you know, where Devore came from,

319
00:11:39,184 --> 00:11:40,919
went across to Saclay, Martinez,

320
00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:44,120
Martina's, of course, going on to to Google

321
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:44,620
and,

322
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,279
and Clark's kind of Berkeley Lab as well.

323
00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:50,600
Like, if you look at the human impact,

324
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,000
the training that they had in the fields

325
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,720
that they then kind of coined, like, I've

326
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,534
always thought of

327
00:11:57,254 --> 00:11:59,674
these people and this seminal paper, which

328
00:12:00,294 --> 00:12:02,315
when I was doing quantum

329
00:12:02,934 --> 00:12:03,434
physics,

330
00:12:03,894 --> 00:12:06,714
quantum mechanics before even going to the laboratory,

331
00:12:06,774 --> 00:12:08,694
these were papers I had read. And they're

332
00:12:08,694 --> 00:12:09,899
papers that pretty much

333
00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:12,860
every single person that operates in the space

334
00:12:12,860 --> 00:12:15,660
will have, have recognized, or, you know, maybe

335
00:12:15,660 --> 00:12:17,680
you've looked at Martinez's lectures,

336
00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:20,480
or Jeffrey's lecture notes. And,

337
00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:22,924
and I think it's, it's also this

338
00:12:23,625 --> 00:12:24,764
kind of human spawning

339
00:12:25,225 --> 00:12:26,365
as well as the technical

340
00:12:26,985 --> 00:12:27,485
spawning,

341
00:12:28,264 --> 00:12:30,044
that these almost like godfathers

342
00:12:30,424 --> 00:12:31,245
of the field,

343
00:12:33,144 --> 00:12:36,105
we're able to, to kind of catalyze with,

344
00:12:36,105 --> 00:12:39,379
with this work. So, Alana, the the superconducting

345
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,879
qubits that, that we see today, and, you

346
00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:43,379
know,

347
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,220
these these are used in in quantum processors

348
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,315
that are that have been developed by huge

349
00:12:50,455 --> 00:12:53,355
companies and and small startups alike.

350
00:12:53,735 --> 00:12:54,955
Are are the superconducting

351
00:12:55,975 --> 00:12:56,475
devices

352
00:12:56,934 --> 00:12:58,075
today, are they

353
00:12:58,934 --> 00:13:00,554
very similar to what,

354
00:13:01,174 --> 00:13:02,315
the Nobel laureates

355
00:13:02,660 --> 00:13:05,220
developed in the mid eighties? Or are they

356
00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:06,600
essentially better versions

357
00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:09,300
of of what they developed? Or or has

358
00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:10,680
the technology evolved

359
00:13:11,059 --> 00:13:12,600
quite a bit since then?

360
00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:16,740
Yeah. Thankfully, of course, technology has evolved, quite

361
00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:17,800
a bit from then.

362
00:13:18,584 --> 00:13:20,825
But really this is this moment was kind

363
00:13:20,825 --> 00:13:22,044
of that that first

364
00:13:22,584 --> 00:13:25,065
experimental proof point, right, that you could start

365
00:13:25,065 --> 00:13:27,705
to manufacture or create some sort of manmade

366
00:13:27,705 --> 00:13:28,205
circuit,

367
00:13:29,384 --> 00:13:31,004
with this property that

368
00:13:31,384 --> 00:13:32,845
then turns into these,

369
00:13:33,225 --> 00:13:35,680
these cubits, right, where you've got your LC

370
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,100
oscillator with your specific Joseph's junction,

371
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,800
within now at first, when they first tried

372
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,040
to create cubits and control it, the quantum

373
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:43,940
information processing.

374
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,200
My understanding is that, actually, they were looking

375
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,040
at it from a different approach with with

376
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,524
charge based mechanisms.

377
00:13:50,985 --> 00:13:53,304
And you were really limited in terms of

378
00:13:53,304 --> 00:13:55,225
what we call the coherence time, I. E.

379
00:13:55,225 --> 00:13:57,544
The the amount of storage time that quantum

380
00:13:57,544 --> 00:13:59,644
information could be held and manipulated,

381
00:14:00,184 --> 00:14:01,964
in that type of approach. But,

382
00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:05,420
actually what came from that was further development,

383
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,580
into what we call the transmon.

384
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,259
Now the transmon,

385
00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:12,360
there's another paper, which maybe that's one as

386
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,460
well, which might be up for a future,

387
00:14:16,575 --> 00:14:17,075
quantum,

388
00:14:17,695 --> 00:14:18,175
future,

389
00:14:18,495 --> 00:14:21,215
Nobel prize, but this was really Deveray and

390
00:14:21,215 --> 00:14:23,055
his wider research group. So then you kind

391
00:14:23,055 --> 00:14:25,375
of move on to Deveray and Sholkov and

392
00:14:25,375 --> 00:14:29,075
Warrath and kind of circuit QED methods,

393
00:14:29,889 --> 00:14:32,070
which are all based off this Transmon

394
00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:34,230
type approach. But fundamentally,

395
00:14:34,610 --> 00:14:35,350
that Transmon

396
00:14:36,289 --> 00:14:37,509
includes, of course,

397
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:40,210
all or is built upon all of the

398
00:14:40,210 --> 00:14:40,710
understanding,

399
00:14:42,370 --> 00:14:43,985
of of that original

400
00:14:44,764 --> 00:14:46,384
kind of circuit QED piece,

401
00:14:47,725 --> 00:14:48,205
but,

402
00:14:48,605 --> 00:14:50,684
is is engineered in a way that means

403
00:14:50,684 --> 00:14:52,205
that what we can do is start to

404
00:14:52,205 --> 00:14:54,924
optimise all of the different components within it.

405
00:14:55,164 --> 00:14:57,485
For example, you you couple it to a

406
00:14:57,485 --> 00:14:58,544
microwave resonator,

407
00:14:59,699 --> 00:15:01,220
so that you can start to increase their

408
00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:02,980
coherence time. You would cross some charge of

409
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:04,519
phase. So there's

410
00:15:04,980 --> 00:15:07,139
fair amount of research that's gone on just

411
00:15:07,139 --> 00:15:08,339
to even get to the point of the

412
00:15:08,339 --> 00:15:10,759
transmon, but the transmon then,

413
00:15:11,539 --> 00:15:12,039
underpins,

414
00:15:12,524 --> 00:15:14,865
I would say, pretty much the entire superconducting

415
00:15:15,485 --> 00:15:17,105
quantum circuit space,

416
00:15:17,485 --> 00:15:20,144
today. So any quantum computer, you know, IBM,

417
00:15:20,764 --> 00:15:22,625
of course, Oxford Quantum Circuits,

418
00:15:23,324 --> 00:15:23,824
IQM,

419
00:15:24,125 --> 00:15:24,625
Rigetti,

420
00:15:25,245 --> 00:15:26,144
I think AWS.

421
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,920
They're all based on this core Transmon type

422
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,420
technology,

423
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:35,379
which is from that core circuit QED toolbox

424
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,540
that was was first demonstrated here.

425
00:15:38,559 --> 00:15:38,960
And,

426
00:15:40,235 --> 00:15:43,375
can we get on to, Oxford Quantum Circuits,

427
00:15:43,914 --> 00:15:44,894
Alana? You,

428
00:15:45,195 --> 00:15:45,695
cofounded

429
00:15:46,394 --> 00:15:49,934
that UK based company in 2017,

430
00:15:50,394 --> 00:15:51,855
and, it uses

431
00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:52,759
superconducting,

432
00:15:54,019 --> 00:15:56,019
circuits. Can you can you talk a bit

433
00:15:56,019 --> 00:15:57,480
about the challenges

434
00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:58,600
of taking

435
00:15:58,980 --> 00:15:59,480
superconducting

436
00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:01,399
circuits out of the lab,

437
00:16:02,019 --> 00:16:03,399
back in 2017

438
00:16:03,460 --> 00:16:03,960
and

439
00:16:04,355 --> 00:16:04,855
creating,

440
00:16:05,475 --> 00:16:05,975
practical

441
00:16:06,514 --> 00:16:08,214
commercial systems. Was it,

442
00:16:08,595 --> 00:16:10,454
I'm guessing there were a lot of challenges

443
00:16:10,514 --> 00:16:11,894
involved in that commercialization.

444
00:16:12,995 --> 00:16:14,834
Yeah. Of course. And and for anybody in

445
00:16:14,834 --> 00:16:16,409
the space, there there still are.

446
00:16:17,370 --> 00:16:20,490
So I joined OQC, Oxford Quantum Circuits as

447
00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:23,690
founding CEO alongside Doctor. Peter Leek, from the

448
00:16:23,690 --> 00:16:25,069
Oxford physics department.

449
00:16:25,850 --> 00:16:27,929
I think this is a really great example,

450
00:16:27,929 --> 00:16:30,565
right, of where you can have a core

451
00:16:30,565 --> 00:16:32,644
technology, a core piece of IP or an

452
00:16:32,644 --> 00:16:34,184
idea that sits within academia.

453
00:16:35,044 --> 00:16:36,485
But there's a really long way to go

454
00:16:36,485 --> 00:16:38,245
and to be able to turn, you know,

455
00:16:38,245 --> 00:16:41,445
an idea or a concept or, an early

456
00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:42,004
kind of,

457
00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:45,589
piece of science through into,

458
00:16:47,009 --> 00:16:49,169
a commercial system. Right? That's a long path

459
00:16:49,169 --> 00:16:50,149
and a long journey.

460
00:16:50,929 --> 00:16:53,009
If we specifically start just looking at the

461
00:16:53,009 --> 00:16:55,970
actual qubits themselves, like the approach we were

462
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:58,355
able to take there was how can we

463
00:16:58,355 --> 00:17:00,674
kind of utilize that deep relationship with the

464
00:17:00,674 --> 00:17:01,174
university

465
00:17:01,955 --> 00:17:04,275
whilst it's the technology is still a kind

466
00:17:04,275 --> 00:17:05,335
of early technology

467
00:17:05,714 --> 00:17:06,214
readiness

468
00:17:06,835 --> 00:17:08,674
to both prove out the physics and build

469
00:17:08,674 --> 00:17:09,960
confidence in the physics.

470
00:17:10,519 --> 00:17:11,799
And then what I was able to do

471
00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:13,559
is the CEO is come in and go,

472
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:15,880
right. Okay. How do we now turn this

473
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,279
into an actual system? How do we de

474
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:21,099
risk technology in university and build a stack?

475
00:17:21,399 --> 00:17:23,720
And that's a lot more than just kind

476
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,659
of proving out a key bit. Right? That's

477
00:17:25,994 --> 00:17:26,494
optimising,

478
00:17:27,434 --> 00:17:27,934
reproducibly

479
00:17:28,555 --> 00:17:29,375
at scale,

480
00:17:29,755 --> 00:17:31,855
but also building the rest of a computing

481
00:17:32,075 --> 00:17:36,335
stack, which requires significant kind of multi interdisciplinary

482
00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:38,974
teams pulling from

483
00:17:39,569 --> 00:17:40,069
industry,

484
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:42,390
across the world.

485
00:17:43,169 --> 00:17:43,669
And

486
00:17:44,049 --> 00:17:46,609
of course you have the qubit itself with

487
00:17:46,609 --> 00:17:47,429
these individual,

488
00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:51,509
transmons for oxo quantum circuits. That's the coaximon,

489
00:17:51,730 --> 00:17:54,305
which was the invention from Peter Leake in

490
00:17:54,305 --> 00:17:55,684
in the physics department.

491
00:17:56,305 --> 00:17:57,985
But, of course, you then also need to

492
00:17:57,985 --> 00:17:59,265
build the rest of the stacks or the

493
00:17:59,265 --> 00:18:01,985
control hardware, the control software. And one of

494
00:18:01,985 --> 00:18:04,225
the things that I was really passionate about

495
00:18:04,225 --> 00:18:06,144
is, like, making sure that we were putting

496
00:18:06,144 --> 00:18:09,289
the customer, right, the commercial mindset at

497
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:11,509
the forefront of everything we were doing. I

498
00:18:11,509 --> 00:18:12,970
don't think it's worth or

499
00:18:13,509 --> 00:18:16,409
correct to build technology in isolation. So

500
00:18:16,869 --> 00:18:17,509
for us,

501
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:19,750
one of the first key milestones we did

502
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:21,589
was prove out a kind of end to

503
00:18:21,589 --> 00:18:22,605
end vertical slice

504
00:18:23,085 --> 00:18:24,924
with the first system, which was only four

505
00:18:24,924 --> 00:18:25,424
cubits.

506
00:18:26,125 --> 00:18:27,724
But we connected up to,

507
00:18:28,125 --> 00:18:29,964
a consumer, a customer that was running an

508
00:18:29,964 --> 00:18:30,464
algorithm.

509
00:18:31,085 --> 00:18:33,005
And at each point, we've always tried to

510
00:18:33,005 --> 00:18:35,325
keep the customer at the forefront of everything

511
00:18:35,325 --> 00:18:37,565
we were doing, and that meant providing them

512
00:18:37,565 --> 00:18:38,065
access.

513
00:18:38,389 --> 00:18:39,990
You know? And when you do that, you

514
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:40,490
get,

515
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:43,669
you get a deeper understanding, of course, of

516
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:44,169
the

517
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:47,029
the challenges, both from a technical but also

518
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:47,529
from

519
00:18:47,829 --> 00:18:48,889
a systems integration

520
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:50,169
perspective,

521
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:52,089
for the for the consumer.

522
00:18:52,634 --> 00:18:54,154
And at the end of the day, the

523
00:18:54,154 --> 00:18:55,134
the kind of really,

524
00:18:55,914 --> 00:18:56,654
I guess,

525
00:18:57,595 --> 00:19:00,634
challenging thing for the quantum physicist think about

526
00:19:00,634 --> 00:19:03,595
is that ultimately the consumer doesn't care whether

527
00:19:03,595 --> 00:19:04,335
it's quantum

528
00:19:04,650 --> 00:19:06,090
or not. Like, we want to be able

529
00:19:06,090 --> 00:19:07,609
to solve their problems. So you need to

530
00:19:07,609 --> 00:19:08,730
be able to find a way to zoom

531
00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:09,230
out,

532
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:12,490
as as well and really focus on the

533
00:19:12,490 --> 00:19:14,029
type of problems that they have,

534
00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:16,509
and really think about, you know, security.

535
00:19:16,894 --> 00:19:19,154
How does this integrate into their existing workflow?

536
00:19:19,615 --> 00:19:21,214
But at the same time, you've also got

537
00:19:21,214 --> 00:19:23,855
to build from the bottom up. And, you

538
00:19:23,855 --> 00:19:26,434
know, this is true for all quantum companies

539
00:19:26,494 --> 00:19:29,054
out there today is that the systems that

540
00:19:29,054 --> 00:19:29,954
that we have

541
00:19:30,509 --> 00:19:32,430
and the, the progress that we're making with

542
00:19:32,430 --> 00:19:35,150
the, the actual, I'd say performance of the,

543
00:19:35,150 --> 00:19:37,710
the quantum bits, be it through superconducting circuits

544
00:19:37,710 --> 00:19:39,970
or NV centers or silicon or ion traps.

545
00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:42,990
No, it's, it's really improving rapidly, but we

546
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:44,349
need to be able to do this at

547
00:19:44,349 --> 00:19:45,970
tens of thousands, if not millions

548
00:19:46,325 --> 00:19:46,984
of cubits

549
00:19:47,765 --> 00:19:48,265
reproducibly

550
00:19:48,644 --> 00:19:51,224
with high quality, with super low latency,

551
00:19:52,565 --> 00:19:54,345
in a manner that is seamless,

552
00:19:54,964 --> 00:19:57,224
and kind of integrated into

553
00:19:57,605 --> 00:20:00,184
the existing industry. And that's really challenging.

554
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,319
I think it's worth touching on, if you

555
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:06,220
don't mind, like, the superconducting circuits in particular

556
00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:07,099
here, because

557
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,200
where you have Josephson junctions and this kind

558
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,880
of core piece, still one of the biggest

559
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,440
challenges is that that's the core component that's

560
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,339
really challenging

561
00:20:16,724 --> 00:20:18,505
to reproduce at scale,

562
00:20:19,045 --> 00:20:20,505
with with high yield.

563
00:20:21,285 --> 00:20:22,825
And it's not something that

564
00:20:23,444 --> 00:20:25,384
exists in the existing semiconductor

565
00:20:26,164 --> 00:20:26,984
supply chain,

566
00:20:27,845 --> 00:20:30,005
as a kind of methodology. So that is

567
00:20:30,005 --> 00:20:31,144
one of the biggest challenges,

568
00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:33,869
for any of the superconducting

569
00:20:34,410 --> 00:20:35,710
circuit players today.

570
00:20:36,570 --> 00:20:40,009
And you you mentioned, that superconducting circuits, they're

571
00:20:40,009 --> 00:20:41,850
they're not the only game in town when

572
00:20:41,850 --> 00:20:44,970
it comes to creating qubits and and and

573
00:20:44,970 --> 00:20:46,029
quantum processors.

574
00:20:47,345 --> 00:20:47,744
Are we

575
00:20:48,545 --> 00:20:50,404
do we are we still in the mindset

576
00:20:50,464 --> 00:20:52,164
that there is going to be one

577
00:20:52,704 --> 00:20:55,525
type of qubit technology, be it superconducting

578
00:20:55,904 --> 00:20:58,785
or something else, that's going to win out?

579
00:20:58,785 --> 00:20:59,279
Or

580
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,720
could we see a future with with a

581
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,900
number of different types of qubits

582
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,000
integrated together? So, you know, you might have

583
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:08,500
superconducting

584
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:10,259
qubits, you might have

585
00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:14,500
optical NV qubits and trapped ions all

586
00:21:14,815 --> 00:21:17,955
in one system or connected on a quantum

587
00:21:18,255 --> 00:21:18,755
internet.

588
00:21:19,695 --> 00:21:20,195
What's

589
00:21:20,815 --> 00:21:21,535
the view,

590
00:21:22,174 --> 00:21:24,035
in the industry today about

591
00:21:24,335 --> 00:21:26,355
the, you know, the race for the ultimate

592
00:21:26,414 --> 00:21:26,914
qubit?

593
00:21:28,009 --> 00:21:28,649
Well, I think,

594
00:21:29,289 --> 00:21:31,210
maybe my view is different from the view

595
00:21:31,210 --> 00:21:32,970
across, across the industry today. So if you

596
00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:34,490
go and speak to any of these individual

597
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:36,750
companies, of course, they'll tell you rightly so,

598
00:21:37,289 --> 00:21:40,429
why their single technology will, will, will win.

599
00:21:41,384 --> 00:21:42,984
But for me, I mean, I did my

600
00:21:42,984 --> 00:21:45,785
PhD originally in hybrid quantum systems. So I

601
00:21:45,785 --> 00:21:48,605
was doing superconducting circuits coupled with,

602
00:21:49,865 --> 00:21:50,845
spin ensembles,

603
00:21:51,545 --> 00:21:54,445
and got to work with, different spin mechanisms

604
00:21:54,585 --> 00:21:55,244
as well.

605
00:21:55,829 --> 00:21:56,329
And

606
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:58,569
if you look at the progression

607
00:21:58,950 --> 00:22:00,890
of, say, classical compute,

608
00:22:01,509 --> 00:22:03,049
I honestly think it would be

609
00:22:03,589 --> 00:22:07,130
naive to think that any one single technology,

610
00:22:08,244 --> 00:22:09,544
or kind of underlying,

611
00:22:10,804 --> 00:22:12,585
quantum basis is going to be

612
00:22:12,884 --> 00:22:14,424
utilised for absolutely everything.

613
00:22:15,365 --> 00:22:16,884
So I don't think there's a winner take

614
00:22:16,884 --> 00:22:19,845
all, technology. I do think it's worth still

615
00:22:19,845 --> 00:22:22,345
investing in multiple different technologies.

616
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,320
And I do see a world in which

617
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,220
we've got

618
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,700
different underlying types of qubits,

619
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,580
optimised for different applications,

620
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:34,600
and that they probably will be hybrid quantum

621
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,820
computers or networks

622
00:22:36,664 --> 00:22:37,884
in in some form,

623
00:22:38,664 --> 00:22:40,904
in in the future. So I'm a firm

624
00:22:40,904 --> 00:22:43,384
believer in in hybrid quantum systems to that

625
00:22:43,384 --> 00:22:43,884
moment.

626
00:22:45,065 --> 00:22:46,904
And I think today you've got,

627
00:22:47,464 --> 00:22:49,865
you've got a fairly good overview, don't you,

628
00:22:49,865 --> 00:22:50,365
of

629
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,140
of of of the quantum industry

630
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,519
and, you know, who who's investing what, and,

631
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:00,580
you know, what technologies are are hot, and

632
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,980
and maybe what technologies are fading.

633
00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:06,099
How would you characterize the industry today?

634
00:23:06,585 --> 00:23:07,244
Is it,

635
00:23:07,784 --> 00:23:09,944
has it has it matured quite a bit

636
00:23:09,944 --> 00:23:11,565
from, say, 2017

637
00:23:11,784 --> 00:23:14,765
when you when you first kicked off with,

638
00:23:15,065 --> 00:23:18,105
Oxford Quantum Circuits? You know, how how has

639
00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:19,224
it changed, and,

640
00:23:19,784 --> 00:23:22,639
and where where is it heading? Yeah. For

641
00:23:22,639 --> 00:23:24,579
sure. I mean, look, when I was

642
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:25,460
first

643
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:26,500
fundraising

644
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:29,599
and building the first quantum computers over at

645
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:31,839
OQC, like, honestly, I should have run a

646
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:33,220
consultancy just educating,

647
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:35,139
consumers, investors.

648
00:23:36,245 --> 00:23:37,845
I probably would have made more money and

649
00:23:37,845 --> 00:23:38,585
more progress,

650
00:23:39,605 --> 00:23:41,684
because it was a really, really nascent space.

651
00:23:41,684 --> 00:23:43,365
Right. Consumers didn't know,

652
00:23:44,164 --> 00:23:46,245
what what the technology could could do yet.

653
00:23:46,245 --> 00:23:48,184
So there's a lot of education there.

654
00:23:49,259 --> 00:23:52,320
The investors were really still developing their thesis

655
00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:55,100
on where they would invest and understanding the

656
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:55,600
fundamentals,

657
00:23:56,860 --> 00:23:58,320
of, of what it would take.

658
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:00,160
Fast forward to

659
00:24:00,474 --> 00:24:00,974
today,

660
00:24:01,674 --> 00:24:02,894
that has significantly

661
00:24:03,434 --> 00:24:03,934
shifted,

662
00:24:04,315 --> 00:24:06,974
as a landscape, both from a consumer perspective

663
00:24:07,194 --> 00:24:11,595
where the early adopters, particularly across finance, across,

664
00:24:11,994 --> 00:24:13,674
materials discovery, across,

665
00:24:14,075 --> 00:24:14,575
simulation,

666
00:24:16,019 --> 00:24:17,880
of underlying kind of molecular

667
00:24:18,259 --> 00:24:18,759
dynamics,

668
00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:22,019
and and so much more across both and

669
00:24:22,019 --> 00:24:24,740
I broaden this now to to computing, sensing,

670
00:24:24,740 --> 00:24:25,480
and communications.

671
00:24:26,740 --> 00:24:29,220
The industry has has matured rapidly. Now there's

672
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:29,684
still

673
00:24:30,245 --> 00:24:31,924
a long way to go, of course. We

674
00:24:31,924 --> 00:24:33,765
still need to make sure that we are

675
00:24:33,765 --> 00:24:34,265
building

676
00:24:34,725 --> 00:24:37,365
quantum computers that will eventually be fault tolerant

677
00:24:37,365 --> 00:24:38,985
in capability. We are still

678
00:24:39,525 --> 00:24:40,745
on the cusp of,

679
00:24:41,525 --> 00:24:43,529
kind of coming out of the the NISC,

680
00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:46,349
noisy intermediary scale quantum era

681
00:24:46,809 --> 00:24:47,309
where,

682
00:24:47,849 --> 00:24:49,450
we are pushing the boundaries of what can

683
00:24:49,450 --> 00:24:50,109
be simulated.

684
00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:52,809
But most importantly, I think you've got really

685
00:24:52,809 --> 00:24:53,710
smart end users,

686
00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:56,349
and you've also got really

687
00:24:56,650 --> 00:24:57,150
rapid

688
00:24:57,514 --> 00:24:58,654
technological development

689
00:24:59,434 --> 00:25:01,134
across lots of different underlying

690
00:25:01,674 --> 00:25:03,534
quantum technologies proving

691
00:25:04,315 --> 00:25:06,815
that we are seeing significant,

692
00:25:07,835 --> 00:25:08,335
traction,

693
00:25:10,075 --> 00:25:12,419
which which gives us confidence that we will

694
00:25:12,419 --> 00:25:12,919
meet,

695
00:25:13,299 --> 00:25:16,099
and eventually surpass kind of that quantum advantage

696
00:25:16,099 --> 00:25:18,179
point likely in the next year. If I'm

697
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:21,539
maybe maybe that's my prediction. We'll see whether

698
00:25:21,539 --> 00:25:22,200
we're true,

699
00:25:22,659 --> 00:25:24,419
true next year or not. But I'd say,

700
00:25:24,419 --> 00:25:26,919
you know, characterizing overall, we've gone from

701
00:25:27,295 --> 00:25:28,835
we've gone from early demos,

702
00:25:30,494 --> 00:25:31,795
to a lot more maturity.

703
00:25:32,575 --> 00:25:34,575
We've got full systems. We've got a really

704
00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:35,075
competitive

705
00:25:35,934 --> 00:25:36,434
ecosystem.

706
00:25:37,134 --> 00:25:39,615
We've got a maturing market, and we've got

707
00:25:39,615 --> 00:25:40,515
a much more

708
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,440
smart, ready, capable,

709
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:44,539
investor,

710
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,000
market as well. I think even the amount

711
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000
of investment that's gone in the last '24

712
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,299
to '20 last year, like, 2024 to 2025,

713
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,255
I think it's, like, doubled.

714
00:25:54,654 --> 00:25:56,734
So we're seeing a lot of money, a

715
00:25:56,734 --> 00:25:57,555
lot of talent,

716
00:25:57,934 --> 00:25:59,154
and a lot of expertise,

717
00:25:59,855 --> 00:26:02,194
in the space, which is is really, truly,

718
00:26:02,654 --> 00:26:03,154
exciting.

719
00:26:04,174 --> 00:26:05,555
And what's your role,

720
00:26:05,934 --> 00:26:07,295
Elana? What are you up to at the

721
00:26:07,295 --> 00:26:09,350
moment? Are you are you are you on

722
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:10,950
the business side of things, or are you

723
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:11,450
back

724
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:13,269
in in the lab, or is it a

725
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:15,109
bit of both for you? That is a

726
00:26:15,109 --> 00:26:17,269
a great question. Thankfully for everybody, I'm not

727
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:18,090
in a laboratory

728
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:19,529
because

729
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:23,025
as much as I absolutely loved being an

730
00:26:23,025 --> 00:26:23,525
experimentalist,

731
00:26:24,144 --> 00:26:26,085
I was definitely much better as a CEO

732
00:26:26,345 --> 00:26:26,845
than,

733
00:26:28,545 --> 00:26:31,125
doing the actual kind of, fabrication,

734
00:26:32,305 --> 00:26:34,465
my myself. So we will we all play

735
00:26:34,465 --> 00:26:35,285
into our strengths.

736
00:26:35,789 --> 00:26:37,490
But, yeah, right now I'm actually exploring

737
00:26:37,870 --> 00:26:40,110
a few stealth projects. Of course, it's where

738
00:26:40,110 --> 00:26:42,930
deep tech and quantum primarily meets leadership.

739
00:26:44,029 --> 00:26:46,190
So there's a number of teams in quantum

740
00:26:46,190 --> 00:26:47,410
across different technologies,

741
00:26:48,404 --> 00:26:50,164
where I'm able to help them in their

742
00:26:50,164 --> 00:26:52,424
earlier stages. There's still plenty of room,

743
00:26:53,205 --> 00:26:54,424
in in the market,

744
00:26:54,965 --> 00:26:57,285
to set up with their vision, their mission,

745
00:26:57,285 --> 00:26:58,025
their values.

746
00:26:58,884 --> 00:27:01,809
And I'm really enjoying kind of helping support

747
00:27:01,950 --> 00:27:02,690
the ecosystem

748
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:05,309
to up and grow in that way, both

749
00:27:05,549 --> 00:27:07,009
I mean, I'm an entrepreneur.

750
00:27:07,630 --> 00:27:08,529
I am founding,

751
00:27:09,150 --> 00:27:09,970
for sure.

752
00:27:11,069 --> 00:27:13,009
But also I'm I'm really enjoying

753
00:27:13,390 --> 00:27:16,450
advising early stage teams and getting to know,

754
00:27:17,684 --> 00:27:20,505
yeah, different different teams, different setups from

755
00:27:20,884 --> 00:27:22,585
around around the world.

756
00:27:23,525 --> 00:27:25,525
And if I can kinda give a little

757
00:27:25,525 --> 00:27:26,505
a little teaser,

758
00:27:27,845 --> 00:27:28,964
I know if you know,

759
00:27:29,444 --> 00:27:29,944
Rumi's

760
00:27:30,325 --> 00:27:32,450
quote. It's is like out beyond the ideas

761
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:34,610
of wrongdoing and right doing. There is a

762
00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:35,110
field

763
00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:36,710
and I'll be there.

764
00:27:39,730 --> 00:27:40,470
And finally,

765
00:27:41,009 --> 00:27:43,170
Elana, I'd like to sort of co opt

766
00:27:43,170 --> 00:27:46,005
you in our sort of ongoing project of

767
00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:47,944
trying to predict the next,

768
00:27:48,565 --> 00:27:51,284
Nobel Prize for Physics, something that here on

769
00:27:51,284 --> 00:27:54,244
Physics World, we well, we're we're luck we

770
00:27:54,244 --> 00:27:56,085
we luck out occasionally, I think. We get

771
00:27:56,085 --> 00:27:58,804
it right occasionally, but normally we get it

772
00:27:58,804 --> 00:27:59,304
wrong.

773
00:28:00,690 --> 00:28:03,190
Is there any research that's being done today

774
00:28:03,329 --> 00:28:04,630
in quantum physics

775
00:28:05,009 --> 00:28:08,049
that you find really exciting and you think

776
00:28:08,049 --> 00:28:10,150
could merit a future

777
00:28:10,529 --> 00:28:11,505
Nobel Prize?

778
00:28:11,825 --> 00:28:14,565
So get that quantum crystal ball out.

779
00:28:16,144 --> 00:28:18,305
Yeah. I mean, look, there's so much exciting

780
00:28:18,305 --> 00:28:18,785
work,

781
00:28:19,424 --> 00:28:19,924
happening.

782
00:28:20,384 --> 00:28:21,204
I think realistically,

783
00:28:22,384 --> 00:28:25,285
anybody who makes a reliable error corrected

784
00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:28,589
quantum computer, like the first to that, like,

785
00:28:28,589 --> 00:28:31,470
absolutely deserves absolutely deserves one because that would

786
00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:32,529
be undeniable

787
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:33,970
value.

788
00:28:34,829 --> 00:28:36,109
I think what you said at the beginning

789
00:28:36,109 --> 00:28:39,149
about algorithms is also really important, particularly where

790
00:28:39,149 --> 00:28:41,009
you're looking at new and novel,

791
00:28:42,144 --> 00:28:44,244
error correction, error detection type schemes.

792
00:28:44,945 --> 00:28:47,184
There's a huge amount of innovation there. And

793
00:28:47,184 --> 00:28:50,224
what's kind of interesting actually is the almost

794
00:28:50,224 --> 00:28:52,164
quantum inspired impact on classical,

795
00:28:53,505 --> 00:28:56,029
improvements to algorithm development there as well. But

796
00:28:56,029 --> 00:28:57,649
for me, I mean, it's all about impact.

797
00:28:57,710 --> 00:28:59,789
So if I would love to see a

798
00:28:59,789 --> 00:29:01,710
Nobel Prize then go across to, like, if

799
00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:03,089
somebody has been able to

800
00:29:03,630 --> 00:29:04,130
make

801
00:29:04,589 --> 00:29:05,409
a a discovery,

802
00:29:06,429 --> 00:29:06,929
which

803
00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:09,470
I think for me particularly, it was like

804
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:10,690
purpose built molecular

805
00:29:11,234 --> 00:29:12,134
qubit type,

806
00:29:14,595 --> 00:29:16,775
sorry, molecular simulation type

807
00:29:17,234 --> 00:29:19,335
manners, then I think that that would,

808
00:29:20,595 --> 00:29:21,575
100%

809
00:29:22,035 --> 00:29:22,535
deserve

810
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,240
a kind of Nobel prize. So quantum enabled

811
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,380
discovery in the real

812
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:30,160
world. Sorry. It's not more more specific than

813
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,240
than that. No. That's that. I mean, that

814
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,640
goes back to, you know, recently we've been

815
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,005
talking about the purpose of the Nobel Prize

816
00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:38,924
here. Yeah. And we've looked at some sort

817
00:29:38,924 --> 00:29:41,404
of crazy prizes from the past that, you

818
00:29:41,404 --> 00:29:43,644
know, to to modernize. You think, you know,

819
00:29:43,644 --> 00:29:45,424
what are they on about? A prize for

820
00:29:45,565 --> 00:29:46,465
color photography.

821
00:29:47,244 --> 00:29:48,845
But, you know, it does say I think

822
00:29:48,845 --> 00:29:51,105
it does explicitly say invention,

823
00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:54,609
when it comes to Nobel Prize. And yeah,

824
00:29:54,609 --> 00:29:56,130
that that I mean that is an an

825
00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:59,169
interesting idea that, you know, when when, you

826
00:29:59,169 --> 00:30:00,710
know, when somebody invents

827
00:30:01,329 --> 00:30:02,149
an extraordinarily

828
00:30:02,849 --> 00:30:03,349
reliable

829
00:30:04,105 --> 00:30:06,845
quantum computer that, you know, achieves amazing

830
00:30:07,384 --> 00:30:07,884
advantage,

831
00:30:08,265 --> 00:30:09,565
that's, you know,

832
00:30:10,105 --> 00:30:10,924
that would definitely

833
00:30:11,464 --> 00:30:12,444
deserve a prize.

834
00:30:13,464 --> 00:30:14,765
Yeah. Prize to the whole industry.

835
00:30:16,345 --> 00:30:18,505
Well, that's the problem, isn't it? You know,

836
00:30:18,505 --> 00:30:18,825
it's,

837
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,420
I mean, particularly if if that sort of

838
00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:22,240
thing is

839
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:23,680
is developed

840
00:30:24,059 --> 00:30:26,940
at a big company. Mhmm. I mean, if

841
00:30:26,940 --> 00:30:29,279
it's developed at a small company like Oxford

842
00:30:29,579 --> 00:30:32,565
Quantum Circus, maybe, you know, maybe the Nobel

843
00:30:32,565 --> 00:30:35,304
committee would committee would be able to identify

844
00:30:35,444 --> 00:30:36,184
three people.

845
00:30:36,565 --> 00:30:36,884
But,

846
00:30:37,444 --> 00:30:39,125
I'm sure she would be super happy with

847
00:30:39,125 --> 00:30:40,265
that. Peter and Brad.

848
00:30:41,765 --> 00:30:43,224
That's where I put my money.

849
00:30:43,845 --> 00:30:45,444
Okay. Well, that's yeah. Well well well well

850
00:30:45,444 --> 00:30:46,804
well, we'll put them on our list,

851
00:30:47,450 --> 00:30:49,609
for next year. For sure. They have actually,

852
00:30:49,849 --> 00:30:51,849
had some really good results last year with

853
00:30:51,849 --> 00:30:53,930
a a new type of the Echoaxpond device,

854
00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:55,069
as well called

855
00:30:55,369 --> 00:30:56,809
well, I I'm not gonna talk to it,

856
00:30:56,809 --> 00:30:58,650
but but some people should should also look

857
00:30:58,650 --> 00:30:59,230
it up.

858
00:30:59,529 --> 00:31:02,009
Oh, that's great. Well, thanks thanks, Alana. Thanks

859
00:31:02,009 --> 00:31:05,044
so much for, for coming on, the podcast

860
00:31:05,265 --> 00:31:07,664
and, sort of giving us a flavor, you

861
00:31:07,664 --> 00:31:09,044
know, both about the physics,

862
00:31:09,424 --> 00:31:10,325
but also,

863
00:31:10,865 --> 00:31:12,484
you know, how that research has

864
00:31:12,785 --> 00:31:13,904
essentially spawned,

865
00:31:14,865 --> 00:31:16,484
an exciting new industry.

866
00:31:16,890 --> 00:31:18,650
Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much.

867
00:31:18,650 --> 00:31:19,710
Thank you for the time.

868
00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:30,509
That was Ilana Whisby, who's a quantum physicist,

869
00:31:30,970 --> 00:31:32,285
deep tech entrepreneur,

870
00:31:32,744 --> 00:31:34,365
and former CEO

871
00:31:34,744 --> 00:31:36,845
of Oxford Quantum Circuits.

872
00:31:37,305 --> 00:31:39,325
There's much more about this year's

873
00:31:39,705 --> 00:31:41,244
Nobel Prize for Physics

874
00:31:41,545 --> 00:31:43,244
on the Physics World website.

875
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,200
I'm afraid that's all the time we have

876
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,500
for this week's podcast.

877
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:48,779
I'd like to thank

878
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,059
American Elements for their generous support

879
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,259
of this episode.

880
00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:57,720
Also, thanks to Ilana Whisby for joining me

881
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,220
today.

882
00:31:58,664 --> 00:32:01,164
And as always, thank you to our producer,

883
00:32:01,625 --> 00:32:02,605
Fred Isles.

884
00:32:03,305 --> 00:32:05,625
We'll be back again next week when we

885
00:32:05,625 --> 00:32:07,005
chat about the effect

886
00:32:07,625 --> 00:32:08,205
of microgravity

887
00:32:08,904 --> 00:32:10,765
on the eyes of astronauts

888
00:32:11,305 --> 00:32:13,565
and how they can protect their vision

889
00:32:13,930 --> 00:32:14,750
in space.

890
00:32:15,130 --> 00:32:16,109
See you then.

891
00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:19,549
American Elements,

892
00:32:20,250 --> 00:32:23,789
the world's manufacturer of engineered and advanced materials.

893
00:32:25,690 --> 00:32:26,565
American Elements,

894
00:32:27,684 --> 00:32:28,504
now invent.