130. Relationship anxiety and being 'forever single' in your 20s ft. Katy Bellotte

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.

00:00:24
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, on listeners or wherever you are in the world. We have a special guest on for this episode, and I'm going to say I've been This is one of the first content creators slash podcasters. I ever was a huge fan of back in the day of the early stages of YouTube, so it feels like a full circle moment to bring her on to talk everything dating, moving to a big city, work life, relationships in our twenties. She has an amazing perspective, so welcome Katie.

00:01:00
Speaker 3: Hello everyone, Thanks for having me.

00:01:03
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I feel like this is obviously a show about our twenties and your like content really, I think encapsulates a lot of what we're going through. If you don't know who Katie is, she is a YouTuber, podcaster, content creator, also freelance graphic designer. Is that correct?

00:01:23
Speaker 3: Yep, Yes, that's what I studied in college. That's what I'm like technically trained to do, but I do a lot of other things too.

00:01:30
Speaker 2: On top of that, Yeah, which we like, you've got to have like diversity, You've got to diversify the career portfolio when you're young. And so the reason I really wanted to bring you on, like I said before, is you know, you really a lot of your content has for me really highlighted what my twenties should be like as someone who's also highlighting that for other people. So it's like really interesting to see, how you know, even when you talk about this every single day, you still sometimes need like other people to look to to be like, am I doing this? Ray? Like should I be doing something?

00:02:03
Speaker 3: Oh? Of course, what's going on in imposter syndrome? One oh one? Right?

00:02:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, have you? I'm sure you've experienced that so much, given you've been like on the internet since you were like fourteen.

00:02:14
Speaker 3: Fourteen two thousand and nine, made my first YouTube video. It's still up somewhere in the depths of the internet. But oh, of course I've gone through so many phases with this, and I think, especially with the emergence of TikTok, that really threw me for a loop, Like I entered that and it's been a while since I was just extremely bad at social media. Like I always thought of myself as being the one that's good at social media, you know, like I've you know, grown this audience on YouTube and it translated into Instagram and I even got a corporate job for a hot second. That really was you know, the reason for that job was because I was well versed in social media. And then TikTok comes along. I start my account thinking, oh, I'm going to be not you know, shoot my own horn, but I'm like, I'm good at creating content. Oh my god. It took me probably a good six months just to learn how to use the app and be able to do like, you know, the sounds and line up my mouth with the words and oh my god. Perhaps to everybody who like starts on TikTok, it's such a craft like that. I'm still learning. So yeah, impastor synd them to the max always.

00:03:25
Speaker 2: Oh, I can absolutely imagine, because I'm in the same boat. I cannot stand. Well, I love TikTok as a user, but I absolutely hate it as like a content creator. Oh yeah, And so I don't even I it's I just feel such like a pressure, like a pressure and a sense of dread and like, oh, if I'm not if I'm not doing, if I'm not on TikTok, like I'm not gonna get as many opportunities. And for me, it's been like this whole mentality of being like, actually, you know what you're good at. You do this thing that's you do well, and you really like doing it, and you don't like making tiktoks and you don't like, yeah, being too out there on social media. So it's like, how about you just focus on that and not trying and be like in everything, you know what I mean?

00:04:06
Speaker 3: Right? I think we struggle with that as people that are like multi hyphenit types that consider themselves to be more than just one thing, like I'm not, you know, an architect or a lawyer, like I'm the social media creator. There's so many different kinds of social media that you're working on it, and so it feels like you have to do it all all the time.

00:04:25
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yeah, and you can't just be like it's so interesting if you I was like at this party the other day and someone was like, what do you do for work?

00:04:33
Speaker 3: What do you say to that? What do you say to that, Well, this.

00:04:37
Speaker 2: Was like everyone in the room was like a finance bro. Every single one of them was worked for like an investment capital. I don't even know what it's called. And so I say one of two things. Either I say I work in radio, because that's right, like people could people have like a relational narrative around what radio is and radio presenters. Or I just say that I'm an entertainer. But then I realized that that has other connotations the other day.

00:05:07
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, like a vague and it's a bit vague.

00:05:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, so you're not a musician, you're not an actor, you're an entertainer.

00:05:15
Speaker 3: Are you a clown?

00:05:17
Speaker 2: Like yeah, because when you say like I'm I'm a content creator, you say I'm a podcasta Yeah, people don't know how to respond.

00:05:25
Speaker 3: It's one of those things where like I said, multi hyphen it. It's like I'm a podcaster, YouTube or instagrammer, occasional TikToker tried threads for two days. You know, it's like you just dip your toe. You're a multi hyphenit like so many hyphens. So I actually said, like, I mean I think about it as far as like what's on or what was on my hinge profile? I said social media occupations, social media. I work in social media. Typically when you say that, there aren't too too many questions, like it's like, oh, okay, she probably works for an agency, or like with people I hardly know, I'm like, I don't really need to give you the whole spiel unless you care to know more, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah.

00:06:04
Speaker 2: The other thing that I think you talk about, which I found really relatable, which I said to you before, I know, has now changed, is your kind of approach to dating slash. I would say some of the milestone anxiety around the fact that you hadn't really ever had a boyfriend until very recently. Can you talk us through those? A few stages to this that I think are really fascinating, because I think that a lot of people message me and they're like, how do I deal with this stigma, this anxiety, this desperation almost that I've never dated someone everyone around me has, and I'm lonely and i feel like I'm missing out and I feel like there's something wrong with me. Can you kind of talk through what that If you had that experience, maybe you.

00:06:51
Speaker 3: Don't Oh my goodness, Yes I have, Yes, I have. I mean, it's evident in my content because I've of course filmed my whole life for the past fourteen fifteen years, and so like I go back and now I've been in this relationship, new relationship for three weeks. Now I've met him two months ago on a dating app after twenty seven years of being single, twenty seven years of situationships of course, you know, a few month long flings where you know, you don't really even know what happened, one night stands, going on a second date thinking it went great, getting ghosted, Like I have experienced probably everything possible in the realm of failed dating experiences. Like you know, I've been the one to cut things off, like I just wasn't feeling I think it's one of those things where I grew up very This is such a great thing, but it has definitely affected the way that I live and love. My parents have the most beautiful love, like the most beautiful love story, the way they met, the way they fell in love, Like there's this whole like fairy tale, feeling too it and growing up like my parents never fought. They're best friends, like they make fun of each other. They still like make out in front of my sister and I. We think it's like the most disgusting thing ever, but in the best way, obviously, because we're great. We feel grateful because you know, I have so many friends that their parents are divorced or they have you know, there's just been problems in their parents' relationship, and so for me, I'm like, I'm so grateful for that, but it definitely has kind of bled into my love life and the sense of like I'm comparing everybody like I didn't personally have any previous relationships to compare. You know, I'm in this new relationship now, I have nothing previous to compare it to. The only thing that I've ever compared anything to is my parents' love. And it's one of those things where I'm like so grateful that I have parents that are in love. But it also like every time I go on a date or have gone on dates, in the back of my mind, there's that nagging little like, well, well, like will you love them like your parents love each other? So then, you know, that's definitely been in the back of my mind my whole my whole dating journey.

00:09:04
Speaker 2: You know, it's very interesting what you point to there, which is that our first example of love is the relationship we have with our caregivers, and if we have parents are still together, the relationship that they have with each other, that is like our only blueprint, our only blueprint. Everyone is just following on from really what they saw in their childhood. And it's interesting because we know about, you know, attachment styles and things like that, but I think that we often talk about you know, anxious, anxious attachment, dismissive, avoidant, but there are elements of a secure attachment as well that still make it hard to date and like the fairytale narrative and not wanting to settle, but then having everyone be like, well, you're never going to find anyone with those standards, right. I heard that so often. I still like, I don't hear it anymore because obviously I have a boyfriend now, but I hear it. I used to hear it all the time, where I'd be like, oh, is it really that much to us that this person like treats me really really well? Yeah, and it's it, Yeah, is it really that much to us that like I get flowers every now and again?

00:10:13
Speaker 3: Like what, Yeah? I mean I think I'm definitely in terms of just how I love, even in my platonic relationships, like I love hard, like I love. I don't love halfway, like if I you know, if I meet someone and I don't particularly mesh well with them, Like it's pretty obvious from the get go, because I, you know, when I like really latch onto someone, and like, I definitely have one of those types of attachment styles where like I'm always thinking about everybody that I love, like at all times of the day. Like a close friend of mine first day of work today, I think she thought everyone forgot I'm texting her first thing. And it's not not trying to say like, oh, I'm such a great person like whatever, that's just the way I love. And so it's tough when you you know, you go into situationships or we're in you're ghosted, and you don't receive that back like the reason why I chose or you know, of course he chose me mutual choosing me being in this new relationship with this guy that I met on the stating app I haven't I'm not disclosing his name yet. That's like the one that.

00:11:13
Speaker 2: Keep it to.

00:11:14
Speaker 3: So so i'mon referred him as my boyfriend. But it's also so weird saying that, Like I haven't you know, twenty seven years, I have never said, oh, my boyfriend, like this is so and so my boyfriend's so weird. But the reason why I've decided to finally choose him, like after years of being picky, years of not settling, even though people are like, hey, your your standards are too high, is because he gives me back, like he gives me what I need. I give him what he needs, and we have this like it it feels like a friendship, but just like times a million. It's like we have this great banter all the time. It's not just like when we're drinking, you know, which I feel like, yeah, I was stating it was, you know, a lot easier after a few like gin and tonics like in the beginning, but no, I like, I feel like we have this like kindred spirits vibe that is the kindred spirits Like I feel like I've known him forever and I've never felt that before. And I see parts of that like in my parents' love, which is comforting. But I also I think through the years of doing this, have realized, like, my love is not going to be the same as my parents' love because you know, I don't I didn't grow up in the eighties this, you know, the seventies, the eighties, and times are different. Like I was really beating myself up for a minute there. When I met this guy on this on a dating app, I was like, no, no, I didn't want to do it that way. I wanted to meet him in person. I wanted to be at a coffee shop, and he asked me what book I'm reading, Like That's what I wanted. But you know, we live in a different age now, so the fairy tale story is going to look a little different, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't feel the same.

00:12:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's like I know, I do know what you mean. It's like having a good story. Like I think me and my ex had a great story. How like first time meeting was like was out of a fairy tale, and like I've talked about it before, but like I was his waitress at a bar on his twenty first birthday and he was there with his mom, and his mom ended up giving me his number when they left, and I was like to be content like ran back in and gave me the number, and he didn't know. And basically it was this whole beautiful story that didn't change the trajectory of our love, right, which is so interesting it actually it it was a nice story and it was nothing more because if the relationship isn't good, you know, a story's only as good as long as you can tell it, and once you've broken up, you can't tell it anymore because do you know what I mean, the content of the relationship isn't great.

00:13:37
Speaker 3: I just got chills like hearing that. You're so right, really yeah, it's like at some point, you know, the story ends, and it's not something you talk about. It's either Yeah, there's this Taylor Swift song the Story of Us, and she's like, you know, kind of discussing like what will our story be? Will it be like love or an end? And you know that was song was made so long ago. I wonder if she even thinks about that story anymore. You know, it's interesting.

00:14:05
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. Let's give her a call her up.

00:14:09
Speaker 3: Why don't you just call Taylor out?

00:14:12
Speaker 2: I was like, is she gonna say it? Am I going to say it? Yeah?

00:14:15
Speaker 3: One of us.

00:14:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like, and I think it's interesting because our stories now have a lot of parallels. And I really waited, like after my last relationship ended, I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not doing situationships anymore. I'm not doing one side of anything.

00:14:35
Speaker 3: And I made like.

00:14:35
Speaker 2: This list of like what I was looking for. Did you have a list of like non negotiables or did you just know them?

00:14:41
Speaker 3: I just know them. I there was a point living in New York. I mean, there's a lot of opportunities here because there's a lot of people here and a lot of single people here, especially in your twenties. I feel like people oftentimes don't settle down here till they're in they're like mid thirties, and it's completely natural and normal. Like in the city. It just kind of it's not like a shocking thing to hear. Oh, like, yeah, they're getting married at thirty six, like you know, and that not to say that's old, but you know, my mom and dad got married at twenty seven, twenty eight, so you always kind of have this like freak out moment because I'm twenty seven now, turning twenty eight in October, so I'm like, oh my god. I but New York does give you that comfort of like, oh, I have time, so that's like a plus of living here. I feel like people, you know, career first having fun first, which can always you know, can be a positive or negative depending on how you look at it.

00:15:30
Speaker 2: But I know, but I it's this thing of like milestone anxiety where it's heat yes, right, and it's so cultural and like societal and contextual, because I like, it's so interesting that you're talking about how in New York it's like everyone they commit a little bit later they have they feel like they have more of this this this like time copped out for freedom. But like, amongst the people that I'm around, I would say the majority of them are in their early twenties and either live with or have a very serious partner, especially like in Australia I think, but also in the places outside of the major cities. Yeah, I have friends who like moved in with their boyfriends at like twenty two, got engaged at like twenty three, twenty one.

00:16:14
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. People from my hometown absolutely Facebook was a scary place like for a few years there for me, I mean even still like it's like I open it up. I'm like, oh, another baby, another engagement, and look at me. But yeah, New York definitely has that element of I think people, you know, there's not as much of a rush. Granted I always, as a woman, feel like there's a bit of a rush, like you know, you always I'm already looking into you know. Maybe when I turned thirty, that's what I freeze my eggs, like I I'm not ready for that right now. But your question about like did I have like a checklist or something when I was going on dates. No, but there was a point there when I was going on like actually two potentially three days a week, like I was plowing through it. I mean not that I was like desperate to find him or whatever, but mostly because everyone's doing it.

00:17:03
Speaker 2: Which I think is like really really quite like valuable, right because I feel like when I was single, I always felt this pressure to like to meet someone and to be like and to be like my friends, right, to be like happily with someone at twenty three. But then I also had this mentality of like, is that actually what I want right now? Because I really like being single and I like that I have my independence and I like that I'm able to do my own thing, and it wasn't that like someone's going to detract from that. But it's like if I'm going to add another person in here, they better be really really worth it. And it's like interesting that I think from a lot of those experiences I had where I was dating people who like wouldn't commit, or who were like quite awful, or who you know, would ghost me like you said, after like a couple of dates, or I would you know, unfortunate ghost them, or and it was like I'm kind of sick of being traded like a second option, or I'm sick of being traded poorly. And I took like six months. I took six months off from dating, and I was like, I'm going to give the dating apps one more try at like I'm just gonna do it one more time. And I was like, you know when you like are on dating apps and you're like I don't actually really want to talk to anyone, yep.

00:18:24
Speaker 3: Yep, I just feel like I need to be that I wanted. Yeah, I've been in that realm as well, where I just like want like a little confidence boost. I'm like, oh, all these people like me, amazing. I'm gonna do nothing with this. I'm not going to reach out to a single person. Wait are you? Are you seeing up the fact that was the last date you went on like this the last date in your mind You're like, oh, this is my last one was when you met your boyfriend.

00:18:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't saying it up. Oh my god?

00:18:49
Speaker 3: Really yeah? So actually crazy enough. I don't know if I like fully believe in all of this, But a year ago May twenty twenty two, I went to see a psychic with my friend Colby, who you know from the podcast from Match Made. Went to see a psychic like we were just having a drunk night, got pizza. Psychic was right there. You know, why don't we just pop in see what she has to say? Got my palm Red did. The whole thing, was giggling the whole time. She goes, in a year's time, you were going to meet the love of your life. And I'm like, okay, lady, sure like sure. That was May twenty twenty two. May twenty twenty three, not too long ago. I said on my podcast, guys, I'm so sick of the dating apps. I'm so sick of situationship after situationships, So sick of me even going on dates to meeting like I am, I'm just like not clicking with people, Like I'm so sick of this, Like I it's summer, I'm going to go on one last hinge date of summer. I'm deleting the app after that, Like I just need a break. I wasn't like this is when I'm going to meet the person. I was like, I just seed a break. I matched with my now boyfriend May twenty twenty three, a year after I saw the Psychic And it's crazy because I didn't even remember this. A podcast listener pointed this out to me. I completely forgot about this psychic experience. I mean I was like drunk and it was a year ago, and like you know, time flies a lot a lot of dates since then. But yeah, and now we're official and I'm dating him. Isn't that crazy? It is?

00:20:24
Speaker 2: I actually shows when you said that like a year later, and the fact that you're like, ugh, like this lady, she just wants to sell, you know, the extended package for more palm ratings.

00:20:34
Speaker 3: I mean she probably did, but like alas it ended up being kind of cute.

00:20:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's like it's so funny when You're like, you have that skepticism, and I think it's really so. I have this theory, right, is that when you are finally at your wits end slash like highly skeptical, your guard is most up, and so you're better able to actually discern someone's character and also you're not looking for it. When I was single, I absolutely hated the phrase it will come when you least expect it.

00:21:07
Speaker 3: Oh my god, don't even get me started on that one. Don't even get me started. I was like, I am all love to say that. Yeah, I'll love to say that. I will never say that to any one of them because I remember how it felt to hear that twenty seven years of being single, Like, oh my god, you know, yeah, it's a tough one.

00:21:25
Speaker 2: Also, when people say that, they're like, you know, what happened when you least expect it? It's like, I'm a very anxious person. I'm always expecting everything like that is the Nope.

00:21:33
Speaker 3: I'm a hopeless romantic. I'm always expecting a love startapp and every day in my life I fall in love six times a day with people on the street. So like, no, I'm always expecting it. So am I just never going to find love like is that you know exactly?

00:21:46
Speaker 2: And I'm also like that is ridiculous because you can be very intentional and meet someone amazing, like you can be set up like.

00:21:53
Speaker 3: It's I hate it's a numbers game.

00:21:56
Speaker 2: It is a numbers game. Like we were talking about it's a numbers game. It's interesting because like when we were just when you were just discussing your new boo and how you were like, I'm gonna go on one more date, same thing. This is this is kind of crazy. And also I have not really spoken about this on the podcast. I'm kind of like hard launching here.

00:22:13
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but.

00:22:15
Speaker 2: He's I've talked to him about it, so like I know he's fine with it, and he's probably listening right now because he's a good boy and listens to all my episodes. But it was really interesting because I had been in Bali actually, and while I was in Bali, which is like the Australian version of going to like Mexico like or going to like Kankun like you go to Bali. Yeah, And I was there with like a bunch of people who were like freshly single, i mean, like straight out of relationships and they were like ready to get it on essentially, and they were like, we're in Bali, let's like have heaps of sex and go on heaps of dates. And I was like, oh my god, I feel really left out. I was like, I've got phimo here. I want to do that, and so I downloaded it and I matched with one person and that was him.

00:23:01
Speaker 3: And then chills, chill, chills, chills.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: But then I ghosted him, which is yeah, because I was in Bali and I had lost my phone and I was just like, I'm having the best time.

00:23:14
Speaker 3: I actually find ghost How long it was like two days? Three days?

00:23:19
Speaker 2: Oh? And he'd like asked, well, it wasn't great, and.

00:23:21
Speaker 3: I like, it's a soft ghost.

00:23:23
Speaker 2: It's a soft ghost. And it was interesting as well. Yeah, because you technically ghosted your your man as well.

00:23:29
Speaker 3: Oh for a full week he spelled my name wrong. Of course I did.

00:23:32
Speaker 2: Oh.

00:23:35
Speaker 3: I said, you come back. I'd like send him to time out. You come back. I'm going to give you a no reply. Come back when you've learned your lesson and you can spell my name right, because I'm not going on a date with someone who doesn't know how to spell my name.

00:23:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:23:46
Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely the bare minimum, the bare minimum. But I like, I like, yeah, I ghosted him and he to like ask me this amazing question, and he like he came. He was like, I don't like small talk. I'm gonna ask you ten questions about like yourself.

00:24:01
Speaker 3: Wow, how thrilling.

00:24:03
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but I'm going to say best dating advice ever. If you're a guy listening to this, which I'm guessing there's not many of you, but if there are, you getting a really amazing golden nugget of.

00:24:11
Speaker 3: Advice here, do that.

00:24:14
Speaker 2: Ask the question straight away, cut through the small talk, and it was so impressive, and then we went and then I came back and I was like, I'm so sorry. It goes to do all this thing's happened. I also ran into an X while I was over there, which was actually it was closure, though I was like, oh my god. I think it was like the final thing because I hadn't really been committed to dating because I was still so upset and hurt by what this person had done to me. And then I saw him again and I was like, yeah, right, we're done with that. I was like done moving on and then I was like all right, let's go on a date. And I went on the date and I was like, same reaction. I was like, I was like, this is such bad timing for this to be happening right now, because I was like, this is this is what it's going to be, and I was like, this is just terrible timing, Like I'm about to move. All this stuff is happening. But I think in terms of your story, I really find that it would be highly relatable to people who message.

00:25:10
Speaker 3: Me in and like, I've never had a boyfriend, right.

00:25:14
Speaker 2: And we feel a lot of pressure around that which we've spoken about what kind of advice would you give to them now? Kind of on the other side, right, it's such a thrilling story to be like to see that transition.

00:25:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, of course I've struggled with it. You know, it's been twenty seven years of occasionally feeling like, wow, look at me. I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of myself for not settling. I'm proud of myself for not entering a relationship with someone that I just knew in my bones was not right. I'm proud of myself for sticking to my guns. But then Valentine's Day rolls around or you know, you see a TikTok of people who met when they were twenty two and then fell in love and already have three babies by twenty seven where I am now and you start comparing yourself and you know, it's one of those things where it's there's really good days of like wow, look at me, go I'm proud of myself, Like, you know, I have this epic career that I've crafted from the ground up. You know, this job that I have that has like been my life that I'm so passionate about. And yet I get like into this this funk of like, oh, but I'm single, but like it's like, oh, I'm like, oh, one day my life will be complete when I have everything, when I have it all, And of course, you know, you lean on like the TV shows, Carrie Bradshaw said, like in New York, you're always looking for three things a boyfriend, an apartment, or a job, and I'm like, well, I have too. I have a fabulous West Village department that I'm like so proud that I'm and happy with myself that I'm able to live here, and I have a great job. But then there's always that missing piece, and I always of course, you know, I'm one of those types of thinkers. I like to look into the why. I'm very curious, have always been. I'm assuming a lot of people listen to your podcast also are very curious. And it's a blessing but also a curse because you tend to want to know the reason for everything. So I looked at myself of you know, a single girl at twenty seven, and I'm like, okay, let's just go through all the things that must be wrong with me, because like there has to be. I'm like, I you know there has to be because I look at my friends and I'm like, oh, well, you know they have a boyfriend, but this is how they are different than me, and this maybe I should be less present on social media. Maybe that's a turn off, like I've and you also like kind of take with you every negative thing that's ever been said about you, especially by a man, if you are interested in men, like I, everything, every negative thing a guy has ever said to me, like lives on me, like you know, a tattoo, like I haven't forgotten third grade Harry Arms. That was like my biggest really insecurity that grade, someone like yes, or pointed out the hairy arms, and so you know, of course I'm like, Mom, I need to shave. I need to shave, and she's like, you know, shavingr arms. Years later, I do shave my arms now, and I'm like, it's like it was one of those things I made the decision in college. But of course, like I still remember all of that. So it's one of those things where you never forget and you use those things to hurt yourself when you're in those moments of like maybe I'm not the most powerful, most amazing girl in New York. Maybe I'm just there's something wrong with me and you feel lonely. But I have to say, like being on quote the other side of it now, like oh you know I am. I'm twenty seven with my first boyfriend. It's all very new and very exciting, but also very much like I still think to myself, you know, did I make the right decision? Like did I? But then I remind myself, I'm like, I'm not getting married. Oh no, no, So it's like there is you know, you get into the relationship and it's not like all of your worries end, you know, I think that's the one takeaway that I'm feeling. It's like, be picky, don't settle, don't listen to people that are like, your standards are too high. Not true. I mean, you're not going to find a perfect person. I think we're all aware of that. And being someone that was told that don't settle, like you know, don't or do settle pretty much like you know, you need some experience on your belt, no bs. Like I my boyfriend now has had girlfriends in the past, not super recently, but like in the past, and I think the best thing has just been super honest, like being super honest, upfront with him, being like, hey, he was fully aware before he asked me that this was gonna be my first. He's taken it very seriously but been very like gentle with it. And he's like, so find someone that's like that. Oh yeah, because they're out there. They exist, they really do. I don't know the ones that like want they want to commit, they want the commitment from you, like they want, you know, to have that like label, but not for the wrong reasons. And yeah, it's just been it's been a learning experience all of it. He knows everything, everything that I've always been insecure to share, especially having this career where my life is my job and posting about it. And he's been so great with that, like with not worrying. Last night he was like, so, I think some of your followers found me on LinkedIn. I'm like, I follow about three thousand people on Instagram. I also don't even like use my LinkedIn, so I don't. I don't know how they could possibly do it, but people are very smart anyway. So I was like in horror sitting at this bar listening to him talk about, oh, like, I think a couple of people like found me on LinkedIn. But he's not saying it in like a proud way. He's saying it in just a matter of fact, like this is what happened. And I was waiting for him to be like mad about it or like any sort of like anger, because I've experienced that in the past with people that I've been in like situationships with and I've talked about on the internet. And he goes, oh, I think it's you know, it is what it is. These people are super sleuths. Like he's like just you know, treating everything like it's just another day. I don't have to worry about that with him, which has always been something that I've held my breath like. I went on a date, actually very conveniently, very funny, at the exact same bar that I went on my first date with my boyfriend, in same bar, with a guy who I met actually in a more you know, romantic way, like we met out and he came up and asked for my number, and you know, did that whole thing. And we went to this bar, had drinks, and we're talking about other things, and then all of a sudden he's like, oh, so, what do you do for work? And I was like, oh, explaining my career, and he goes, oh, I'm sorry. You were perfect till he said that you're an influencer. I can't date an influencer. He pays the check, walks out, literally, but how it's so interesting. So it's the same bar that I met my now boyfriend in like a year later, a year and a half ish later. Yeah, yeah, So of course that's something that I'm guarded in that way. You know, I'm like, oh, I don't I want to protect that my one first love, my first love being the podcast. Yeah yeah you too. YouTube Actually YouTube being the first love because podcast is more recent. But yeah, same thing.

00:32:11
Speaker 2: The community almost.

00:32:13
Speaker 3: Like because no, yes, like my girls, you know my people, My people are like, come on, you think that you'll ever come first. I have all these girls that have been with me since two thousand and nine, Like, yeah, absolutely not, honey, it's.

00:32:29
Speaker 2: Not nothing so interesting though, Like we're gonna refer to another I'm going to refer to a now the tailor Swift song here, which is Invisible String, which is like, how interesting that you went on that date with that person who, by the way, dodged a bullet, Because if anyone ever said that to me, I would be incredibly upset. But also actually I would just lose all respect for them, like like, what do.

00:32:53
Speaker 3: You near re minded? I mean he was a finance finance bro classic, just like thinks that all influencers are like bone heads, which come on, Actually we have a lot of street smarts and book smarts to be able to do something like this.

00:33:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're running your own like you're running your own business. You are entirely you're paying your own bills. You have to think about brand management, marketing, the future. If you work in finance, someone's going to tell you what to do day in and day out, like I'm sorry to say it, and I think that's.

00:33:25
Speaker 3: I wish you were there to tell that. I would have.

00:33:27
Speaker 2: And I know that your current boyfriend works in finance, but he does not count. He is.

00:33:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's different, Oh he's he is different in many ways.

00:33:36
Speaker 2: Yeah ways. But it's that invisible stream right where it's like, only in hindsight can you look back and be like, all of those things that felt really terrible at the time and that we're really disappointing had to happen to get me to this point. And so I really think that when I think in this, you know, when we're talking to when I'm talking to people who have never had a relationship, had the hearts broken a lot of times wonder if they ever find someone. It's only with hindsight that you see how everything and I know it sounds awful, but does happen for a reason. All that if you're happy with your current self, you can't be mad at your past self because that all of those things needed to happen.

00:34:18
Speaker 3: To get you there.

00:34:18
Speaker 2: You would be a completely different person, perhaps a lot less happy if those painful things maybe hadn't happened previously.

00:34:26
Speaker 3: I completely agree, Like every past version of myself has kind of been like I picture it being like, you know, when you put your hands together and someone you can like launch someone up over a fence like that, Like that's I picture it like a chain of like katies with different hair colors, because I've gone through many phases just like boosting me up until I've gotten to meet this incredible guy that I know, you know, and it's it's been a journey because I just have trusted my gut the whole time, even if even in the time where like it's been kind of hard, like I've let people go that ended up being like you know, I think back to this one particular, which was kind of like my first I have never been in love like to this at this point in time, like I feel like I could get there with this current guy. I'm not rushing things. I really like him a lot, but of course I'm like, you know, I'm trying to be slow and steady and listen to myself and not rush into things. But my first like time getting close to feeling that way was with this situationship guy that I you know, started in college met this guy in high school and it ended up being one of those things where like he was a few years younger than me, but in college we like continue to talk every time I come home. It was like one of those like hometown romances, and I was the one, long story short, I was the one to end that because I just didn't feel like there was a spark, Like I didn't feel like we had chemistry. I mean, he was like a he was a really interesting guy, very cool guy, but I felt like specifically sexual, we just didn't have chemistry, like it just it always felt like wrong and awkward and just not like loving at all. So I ended that with him like kind of slow faded him out to be honest with you. And of course I opened Facebook like a year ago, and he proposed to his current girlfriend in Paris, And there's that moment where you're like, that could have been me, you know, if I wasn't so darned picky. Yeah, And then you start to second guess your decisions and I'm like, wow, like if I had only But then you think, no, no, no, you got to trust that past version of yourself because she knew what she was doing and for her in that moment and it's all led you here, even if you feel like you're, you know, sitting here empty handed. No, like it's it's for the best, Like that could have ended in you know what if we were getting engaged in Paris right now, like we could get divorced next year. Yeah, that's not what I want to set myself up for. I mean, it happens inevitably sometimes, but like, you don't want to set yourself up for that just by settling, you.

00:36:57
Speaker 2: Know, I totally agree. And it's also I think about the people who when you said that story, Like I think about the people who who I really mourned and who moved on, and I wish that I had been with and I wish that they'd loved me, and I wish that I hadn't let them go. And now I'm like, and at the time, I was like, oh my god, like I missed them so much. Now I think about them in hindsight, and I'm like, can you imagine having children with those people? Can you imagine imagine having to manage finances with them? Imagine taking them on a family vacation, like absolutely not imagine having sex with them for the rest of your life.

00:37:35
Speaker 3: Literally, that's what I was thinking of. I'm like, but Katie, remember why you left, Remember why it didn't work out? And that's that. Yeah, you do find yourself mourning because you selectively forget all the bad stuff. Oh yeah, it's like again Taylor Swift. She's like, she's like, I'm over you until I forget why I needed to be over you or whenever that line is yeah, yeah, all right, like I stopped calling you and then I forget why I needed to stop. You know, you forget, but you don't, but you do. You know. It's one of those things.

00:38:09
Speaker 2: It's like, actually the thing it's called like positive retrospection. So like when we look back at our past, our brain often like suppresses the bad things and keeps all the good stuff because it wants us to like, yeah, it wants us to be optimistic, it wants to protect our self esteem, it wants to protect our mood. And so when you look back at a relationship and you can only remember the good things, that is that is that is why, that is why, because your brain is like playing tricks on you to make sure that you continue to be positively reinforced and don't like end up in a.

00:38:44
Speaker 3: Deep duck give up. Yeah. Yeah, literally, I mean it's a blessing and a curse. Huh.

00:38:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:38:50
Speaker 3: Absolutely might repeat past mistakes, but yeah.

00:38:56
Speaker 2: You learn them a few times over then they're really reinforced double dip.

00:39:01
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:39:01
Speaker 2: Literally, you live in New York. I feel like that's a dream for a lot of people. You work for yourself, you have the three things. Carrie Bradshaw was always looking for an apartment, a boyfriend, a job. But I think it's really interesting. Another thing in our twenties that people ask me about quite a bit is moving to a new city and how to build community. And I'm wondering if you could speak to that, especially since you're in one of the biggest cities in the world. How do you build community, how do you make new friends? How do you find a home in any place?

00:39:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I definitely consider myself to be one of those like introverted extroverts where I'm good with people, I'm good with like with with new people, but I have to be in the mood and my battery dies quick. It's like that's how I feel. And so moving to New York I was actually the first of I very fortunately a lot of my friends also ended up getting jobs here right out of college. I moved here a month after I graduated college. I'd gotten a corporate job. They wanted me here, so it actually worked out perfectly. But a bunch of my friends lived in New Jersey, so they were just commuting in taking the ferry into the city, still living at home, saving money. But I am from Maryland, so it's a little bit too far of a commute. So I just I needed to move here, and I need to move here fast. So I picked like the cheapest, you know, decently close to my my job apartment I could find in Hell's Kitchen ended up being mouse infested, coffers infested.

00:40:36
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

00:40:38
Speaker 3: But I grew in Like if that didn't scare me out of New York, like you know, you know you belong here. If that that was my first I felt like, you know, I was in never grow up, Taylor Swift, Like I tuck myself in and turned the night light on like that was me like every night for like the first like three months, until like people started visiting me at least, so I had to you know, cultivate a sort of community fast because I being this like introverted, extroorted person, like I definitely need people or I tend to go insane, especially I mean this was when I was still at my corporate job, so I had like a bunch of I had coworkers. Thank god. I don't know how I would have done this, like this current freelance life that I live in my first year, like it was tough because I was also young. I was, you know, fresh out of college, like I had lived with in my sorority house, like really recently, Like I was just used to having like girls around all the time, so it was hard to adjust. But I think my biggest piece of advice or like strategy, I did a lot of sliding into people's dms on Instagram.

00:41:44
Speaker 2: Interesting and I still do.

00:41:47
Speaker 3: And I have no shame, Like I find people in so many different ways. I mean TikTok makes it so easy now because also they give you like they kind of feed you people in your area. Like I get a lot of New York content on TikTok. I don't know if everyone gets that, but like I think, like when I'm home in Maryland, I get Maryland content. I get tis right, so like you can kind of find and especially With TikTok, you can find kind of like you know, micro creators as well, like people that are just you know, everyday people that are just posting their outfits, which like I love that. I follow a ridiculous amount of people on TikTok now that just for like outfit content that aren't like your typical influencer, but are they're influencing me. So I would I would find someone like that. I mean back then, you know, just on Instagram whatever, and I would just like DM and be like, hey, like I love your outfit here, I love your vibe whatever, literally slide it ANDD be like do you want to get coffee or drinks and whatever. The worst thing they can do is like open it, not reply, you know, just say yeah sure, but never coordinate a time. It's kind of like dating app, like you're not always going to get a hit, but you actually you might. I mean I've actually met people recently that have told me that they've used bumble bff as well to do a very similar thing. It's like, if you don't want to, if you don't feel comfortable doing it over on TikTok, on Instagram, bumble bff, like you can find friends that way. And I think the thing about New York is people are always you know, I at least personally feel people are always willing to expand their circle because it's not like, you know, it's, oh hey, let's meet at this bar at seven pm or like this this restaurant. It's like not like it's easy, I think because we're all kind of close together, like sandwich together here at least, but in any place. I mean, bumble bff is a great way to do it. Just shamelessly sliding into dms, Like I think it's the most fun story that like a few of my friends that I'm very close with now I'm like, oh yeah, Katie slid in my DMS, Like they're like Katie, yeah I did, no shame, absolutely no shame. And then through that, I've actually I joined a book club through that, like I I, yeah, you just got to get your foot in the door. And it's really nice, awkward, it's not like you might feel like it is, but everyone everyone's just trying to like find their people, especially in a big city, because like, big cities are the places where you can feel the most.

00:44:13
Speaker 2: Lonely totally people, Yeah, spot on, I think it's so spot on. One more I'm going to add to that list, which I'm sure you did asked to be friendship set up as well, So like when ooh.

00:44:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when I know more about that.

00:44:30
Speaker 2: This is like something that happened to me when I would move to Sydney. So like Sydney is the biggest city in Australia, not as big as New York, it's still tiny, but I moved from Canberra, which is like no one knows where that is. It's like a it's like our capital city. It's tiny. And I really didn't know anyone, and I wasn't working and so the first and I'd just gone through a breakup, so it was just like I was like peak loneliness and I like message one of my friends and I was like, do you have any people who live in Sydney who you think I would like? And she was like, as a matter of fact, I do, and she put us both into a group chat together was like I think you two would be friends, and then left the group chat and so we were kind of awkwardly there being like do we get a drink? And we were like, yeah, let's do it. And this is like and like flash forward, fast forward. I guess this like friend of mine like came in my family vacation with me last year, like had New Year's and Christmas at my house and I'd known her for like seven months, and it was like I just met like a soul mate. So you never know, you never know. They just come out of the woodwork and you're like, how we how come I've never met you before? Like right, what was I doing?

00:45:41
Speaker 3: When you can't imagine your life without them? Like it's like genuinely and you wouldn't have And then you have that moment of being proud of yourself, which I think life is all about just like finding reasons or creating reasons for you to feel proud of yourself. Yeah, you know, taking risks, doing things that require a lot of bravery. Life is all about just like collecting those moments. So like when you're at a low point, you just sit here and think, wait a second, though, like I maybe I this is something bad that's happening to me, and I'm like not feeling my best right now, But look at all the stuff that I've done, look at all the times that like I went out there and tried even if it wasn't reciprocated even if it didn't work out, and like, look at all, look at the life that I've created for mysel.

00:46:22
Speaker 2: Feel the fear and do it anyways right like you've just got to I love that saying.

00:46:26
Speaker 3: I know it. We're like me too. It's a pump up episode.

00:46:31
Speaker 2: I'm like, live advice. You're gonna get it all even if you didn't ask for it. I'm solicitous. Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show, and I would really I just want to plug all your content. I'm gonna say this. I was watching Katie's YouTube channel when I was in high school, and it was so funny because you went to like university like two years before me college sorry, and I was like, ooh, this looks fun Like I'm gonna go to a I'm going to like go to a campus and like go to a dorm and like do all these things. And so I feel like it's just like big sister advice. You always providing me with the big sister advice. And I really think that your content is so evergreen and beautiful and inclusive and warm and very like pretty.

00:47:16
Speaker 3: I know that sounds so weird.

00:47:18
Speaker 2: Pretty, but I feel like I ended on a bad one.

00:47:21
Speaker 3: Beautiful like that. I like pretty, pretty is a good word.

00:47:25
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, it's good.

00:47:26
Speaker 3: It's probably top of mine. Summer I turn pretty, you know.

00:47:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So where can they find you if they want to hear more from you?

00:47:34
Speaker 3: Sure, you can just type my name into most social media platforms and I have some sort of footprint there. It's Katie with a y. Don't mess it up like my boyfriend did the first time. Kat Y Balladi b e l l o t t e Ballati pronounced like Pilates but spelled b e l l ott. Type that in most everywhere. I have this podcast called match Made in Manhattan, which is like my newest baby with my two best friends. We talk actually like in depth. We share way too much on there. Every episode ends up being explicit rating. We produce it self produced, self film and record in my apartment every week, and you guys should definitely check it out because we talk about the ups and downs of dating.

00:48:20
Speaker 2: It's really really good. It's people always ask me what podcasts I listen to. Match by to Manhattan. That's my background podcast. No, it's so great it's so weird being like asking you questions about yourself as if like I didn't hear it on the podcast, just like, it's so awkward. But I want to thank you again for coming on board, and as always, if you enjoy this episode, please feel free to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're.

00:48:45
Speaker 3: Listening right now.

00:48:47
Speaker 2: If someone needs to hear this episode, if someone needs to hear Katie's wisdom, my wisdom as well, I guess, please send them this episode. And if you have an episode's suggestion, follow us at that Psychology Podcast to send it through there. Thank you as always, and we will be back next week