#294 Charlie Worsham (In-Studio) on Writing New Music with Luke Combs and Thomas Rhett + Playing GUitar on Eric Church's New Album + First New Music Of His Own in 2 years

00:00:01
Speaker 1: We'll go to episode to nine four. We'll talk to one of my favorites in the whole Nashville area music or human, Charlie Warsham. He's got new music out and actually give him a little something said. I don't know that I've given more than two or three people in my entire career, but I was able to give Charlie Worsham one of these things. You'll hear that coming up the New Music Top five right now, Why don't we start at number five, Chris Lane dropped a new song. It is called Summer Job Money. Here you go probably blow all this jab baby out. I followed Chris on Instagram, or maybe I was watching Lauren Lane's video. But they have this dog band that shows up and they were inside their house and the van poles and their two dogs know what it is ex actly, and they run and jump back the van of the vand drives off and take him to dog camp. Okay, I'll not tagged each other on it without knowing it. They're really funny on Instagram. But that is Chris Lane there with Summer Job Money. At number four, Alan Jackson released another new song from his upcoming album. This one is called where her Heart Has Always Been with her true love again where her Heart It's Always Be. At number three, Thomas Rhett dropped country again side a his whole record. Here's a new song called to the Guys that Date My Girls to him, ma'am holding old, just a friendly man to guest date my girl. It'd be funny if you put a track up it's to the guys that date my girls or to all the guys who are gonna date my daughters. And it's just that's the whole sound, that's the whole track. At number two, Maggie Rose has a new song called Saint Maggie's like Charlie Worsham and that like it's just a matter of time that the sound that is commercial matches their sound. They've had the same sound, and they they're so good. They just haven't matched what labels are oddly looking for, but they're better than what labels have been finding and eventually the stars are gonna align because they're just so good. I mean, that's for Maggie Rowe. She's just just the best. And there's a whole new kind of like soul country that's happening now and she completely fits that like Maggie Rose uh uh Tiara remember her Like there's just and that's this country as anything else is. But there's just something to what Maggie's doing that hasn't clicked because no one's invested in it quite yet, like a big label because well they're spending their money in right now, isn't but they're they're missing it, They're missing it. She's so good. Number one is Matt Carney. He has a new song out called say It Now. I keep standing in a phone, know your bosom. He could just see I don't want that's ever really like this week everything I feel, he could just see. He could just other music out. Prisella Block has a whole bunch of new music out, So you want to play a little Pricilla Block as a as a almost runner up listen the same thing, I guess seven. Also, Smithfield has a new song called something Sexy. Billy Eilish got a song, Willow Smith's got a new song. Gary La Vox released a new song called a Little Love with mercy Me. Mitchell Tinpenny dropped a new song band Camino, So there you go. Albums. DJ Khalid has got a new album also Pilgrimage Festival one. That lineup has been announced. It is a Matthews Band, The Black Keys, Mary Morris, Cage, The Elephant, and a whole bunch more. One Pilgrimage Festival in September Franklin, Tennessee, which I set in Nashville. So big festival. I love to see it. Pilgrimage Festival dot com. You know, we get to announce I'll just say this on this podcast right now. On Monday, we get to announce two festivals that I have put together in two different cities. That's all I will say for now because I think I'll get in trouble, okay, but two festivals that and I haven't said it was a festival yet, but to one day festivals with the day stage bunch of acts. We're doing it in different sudn't said we were doing it however. Festival Monday announcement from for Me, the one Billboard Music Awards were announced. Gabby Barrett led the way with nine total nominations, good for her Best New Artists, Top Selling Song Talk Radio Song Talk Collaboration, TOPP one d Song, Top New Artists, Dan and She got a couple of nominations, so good for them. John Mayer is nearing deal to host a late night talk show. I think it's on Paramount Plus, right. That would be good. That would be really good because he's already good at that. And there's a guy named Joels Holland who I was working with BBC back probably three or four years ago to develop a show kind of like Jules Holland Specials were not the Jewels Holland not show that John Mayer is gonna kind of do. But it's music and talk and John Mayer is gonna do something very similar too. And he's such a good artist and musician. Obviously he can get other great musics and to play with them, which is cool. And he's also really funny. Yeah you know his ideal I was funny. Yeah, he's I've hung out with John Mary a couple of times. It's hard for me to even keep up with them. Sometime. Hi, he's allays all over the place, by the way, Yeah, we're just like, I don't know where he's going, but he's super quick. Have you ever listened back to the interview you guys did together? Nope? I won't listen to it. Nope, because I'll look back at it and go, oh, wish I would have done that. I thought. I pop up on YouTube the other day and watch it again. I was like, man, that was that was awesome? Was it? Yeah? Why? I've never really got to know that much about him and the stuff you were able to pull out of him and some of the quotes he said like stuck with me. Yeah, I just knew a lot about him naturally. It was like when I did a sports show for four years, I did a national sports show. I didn't sit and study sports to do that show. I just my hobby is reading sports and learning sports and having sports opinions all the time. So it was just me taking up personal live and putting it on the radio, kind of like the radio show idea, but with John Mayer, it was very much that where I don't have to prep for that interview. It was like, well, my biggest fans, so let's sit down and see what happens. And that interview, too, was only supposed to take I think five six minutes. He was just popping by real quick because we were playing a song, and then he stayed for a lot longer than that, right, Yeah, it's like half an hour. Oh, let's see here, But but there anything else I want to mention in the news, I don't think so. I did see that we we were talking about this nutty brown Amphitheater on Austin increased the number of available tickets for Parker McCollum for the first time. They're like, all right, we can sell this thing out because it's been very limited because of COVID. But then my favorite part of the story was as Parker McCallum did to sellouts and crushed it, and he crushes it now and he's just gonna be a huge star. They did less the biggest single show ever and at number one is Bobby Bones and Raging Idiots. I love that at that venue we have the record for the largest show three thousand, seven hundred sixty tickets. We packed that thing tighter than it should be packed. Number two was Cole Swindell, Number three was Eli Young Band, And so Parker mcollum is gonna be such a massive store. I just also wanted to brag about the Raging Ideas and maybe that's gonna coming up. Let people know we're still we're still doing it. Uh, that's it. I think you guys will like the Charlie Worsham Interview. Don't you Yeah, I'll enjoy it. Just the best guy. Check out that new music. Check out Charlie Worsham. Thank you guys. Al right here with Charlie Worsham. Always good to see you man, Great to see you. You know, I was thinking about you. I mean I think about you a lot personally, but I was thinking about our relationship just how I guess it's started. We I don't really hang out with a lot of artists have a couple of friends now that as much as I've tried to not be friends with artists so I could still remain objective, there are just really good people in town, and you don't want to discount what can actually be a good friendship. And so I do have a few artist friends now. But I think you were the first artist that I ever said, you know what, I'm gonna go have lunch with the guy and we went to some like the some some tavern that that's exactly what it was. And I was thinking about that this morning. I think it was two thousand seventeen, because if it had been two thousand and eighteen, I think I would have been engaged and I was getting ready to put music out. Kind of new in my gut that it wasn't good to work the music. Yeah, the music, the music, Like I mean, in my gut, I knew something felt off right. And uh, you had some really good wisdom for me at that lunch. And what what in the what I tell you? You're the all knowing no no, no no man. You talked about how you were. You kind of said, man, you know, a song has gotta be ever so good to be able to hit hit the charts and go up the charts. And you get songs and you've talked about this on the show and on the podcast. Uh, you know, you get songs that get pushed up the charts by the team surrounding that person and that song, and and then you get songs that just take off no matter what and all of that and and you were just kind of dispensing some some real wisdom and it made me kind of reflect on what I had surrounding me and uh, and and the album in a sense, like commercially speaking, it didn't work, but what was really going on was the seeds for this music that I'm just now putting out, that those seeds were getting planted and and in the process, as you also in your life since we last connected, H can relate. Uh. I was building a life outside of music. I was dating my wife. Uh. And as that music came out, it was the record beginning of things. And I'm really proud of the record, don't don't get me wrong, but you know it didn't I wasn't in a new tax bracket after that. You know, record came out, but it taught me a lot. And when it didn't work commercially, unlike the times before, I turned and looked around me and there's my future bride, and I'm sort of like, you know, this is gonna be okay. When we were hanging out that day you told me about her. I think you may have shown me a picture because you guys have been a trip or something. But the first time I met her was we were doing a show, a charity show together for Brandon Lancaster. Brandon Lancaster was with me. It was your show. You said, hey, come out and do uh well every every day every we call it daying every day. One day and we went out and you were like, well, I think we're doing like nineties was a nineties country country that was The first time I met her was was out there with with Brandon and Brandon I'd come up to play, and I remember I did Mercury Blues Alan Jackson, and I just thought that was the most fun. And it just that was right before maybe six months for a pandemic. It wasn't it wasn't that long, but it was like the last like real fun in town thing that I had done. And it was a basement East, which then wasn't there after the tornado too. Uh, And now I was back in action at all. But we have a we have a storied career together. Yes, we two things, Mike. No, we have more than that too. How's that. I'll start with some personal stuff. Uh. I mean you have a kid now. He's four weeks old and as of an hour ago, so four weeks. Are you just like I can't wait to get home and see him? Oh? Absolutely, yeah. But I mean it's it's great to be diving back in, you know, because the music, the new music arrived about the same time he did. We knew that was gonna happen, and so I was able to sort of get some stuff ready ahead of time. And I've been at home and it's been beautiful that this happened at the time it did in the pandemic, because I got to be home with Kristen throughout the pregnancy and now in these early you know, these this this precious time. We won't get back. I mean, it's very random. We're very sleep deprived. There's not too much I can do. You know, she's the NASCAR driver right now. I am the pit crew, uh, changing the diapers. You know, it has been a game changer with bottles, Like I can feed him a bottle. That's my new favorite thing with him. But it's just it's amazing. It's sort of like the the axis of the planet that is me just got shifted and and the spotlight that's always been on me has been shifted away, and it makes everything more beautiful. You know, Jordan Davis was over a couple of nights ago. We do a show on Twitch from this this bedroom across from this room, and he, you know, he's got a young child and we're talking and you know, I'm getting married later this summer, and I assume we're not gonna wait too terribly long to have kids. It's not probabtant now, but you know, a year or so year to maybe two years, and I was like, what's the deal, and he goes, well, here's what stinks. Its first six months you don't really do much. You just sit there and go, I wish I could do more, he said. But then like there's like a little click and then you get to start doing more and then it gets to be awesome. But just like you said, he goes, the first six months, you're just like, all right, call me put me in coach. Yeah, man, Like, can I get you some water? Can I get you? What? Can I get you? You know, it's it's been a blast. And Chris and I'm just in awe of her and she's she's an amazing mom. It's been really cool to see Onto Onto music for for many minutes here uh fist through this town. I put it on a national countdown show this weekend. Did you know that? I didn't, Man, I've been changing diapers. So this weekend right, so Saturday and Sunday. You know, it's it's literally the largest count debt the country, kind of the world, in a couple hundred cities, and so we're featuring your song and doing a whole thing about it, and you know, playing it getting a bunch of spend. Maybe some people will see pop up the chart a little bit. Maybe they'll see it and spin it, and you might be starting the whole thing. For me, I'm not starting anything. I'm just jumping back onto help now that you're back on as well. So yeah, so pretty cool. I'm pretty pumped that you have music out and I can go here we go, let's do this. Yeah, well, you know, thank you for playing that song. I know it may not be the most radio friendly, so and you, I believe you've heard all six of these new tunes. Uh. The thing about putting Fist out first, that it was important to me is I think that's where for most country fans they last heard from me, you know, in two thousand and fourteen hours on tour Sandwich between Sam Hunt and Kip More. It keeps loyal following and Sam was blowing up as my first record was kind of going away and it was a frustrating time. And when I sing that song, when I wrote that song, that's the part of my story I go back to emotionally, but it's not where I am now, right, But Uh, working with Jay Joyce on these songs and and everything It really helped me, uh just find a find a new way to reveal myself. And I'm just so proud the music's out there. I'm so grateful you're you're shining a light on that song. It's the small light, but you know what, a lot of people will see it. That's right. I'm pretty pumped about it. That's right. Let me play a little bit of that here is uh fast through this town kid batist. So is that the single? Or is that just a song you put out first? It's just the first song. Uh. There's gonna be another song coming out in May. Uh, and that's a song very much a love song, very much. Well you do, I'm not supposed to now see a believe in love. That's the next song to come out. And then another song is gonna come out in June and uh and then more after that. And I think the idea is, let's just get the music out. I've been away for a while, Uh, get people familiar and and maybe see what might raise its hand as a song to really do the push with. Because I gotta hand it to my label. You know, Warner has been with me. This is my third time putting new music out and it's not normal for someone who doesn't blow up with success to still be signed. And and so I'm still on the roster. A lot of people that I was on the roster with when I signed aren't there, you know. Uh and uh. And I've been on this journey to to keep excavating in my heart and my soul and find my sound and uh and and I feel like I'm closer than ever. All the music I've ever made is as honest as I could ever be. In that moment, it's a it's a time stamp, you know. But I think I've kind of hit this new part of my story. And and being married, being a dad a big part of that. Working with j Joyce was a big part of that. You say, you're lucky to still be on the roster and you write a new artist. If you don't hit as a new artist, it's hard to get them to continue to invest money in something that's not pulling money back in because in the end, you and I are just part of a business plan and a bottom line somewhere good or bad. Right, SAME's how they see it now. Personally, I say, I agree the thirty year investment, not a quarterli but that's a whole another year. I I say, more like one year on me if I'm not making you money on one year. But we are seen as some numbers, and if those numbers eventually don't produce, that's right. They have to cut us. That's right for because we live. We're in a weird profession, but we are using our our intellect to create and hopefully people think that what we're creating is worthy of their money. So that being said, why do you think they have sat with you through one two records, paid for a third? What is it about? Who is it over there? What is it that's keeping you on? Uh? Well, I mean I got the goods. I know that. I don't mean a coy, but I don't take it in a coy, know, you know, like I've gotten to a place where I do understand that I've got something to offer. But I would say this, and I think you have the good everybody knows that. That's so understood that I feel like I didn't know you didn't need to say that. But but but I would say that sometimes decisions aren't made with the people who know you have the goods. That same thing in my company, it could be a boardroom, or they're just looking at data, going we gotta fix this. They don't know Charlie, they don't know Bobby So. But somebody has got to be in your corner that can talk to the people. Well, that would be Chris Lacey, but it also be Shane's Halton. You know, I could point to tend people at Warner s bo up at the top, uh, and Jamie Younger, like the list goes on and on, uh, and and me saying I've got the goods. I think it's also a few other factors to Uh. I haven't lost my mind and gone crazy. You know, I've proven that I'm mentally stable. I work hard, you know, and I mean you know better than anybody how important that factor is. And I so at Warner they see that, they know that the reasons that I maybe haven't exploded yet, they're largely out of my control. And uh, you know, Vince Gill is my hero. And he told me a while long, long while back. Now He's like, man, just don't worry about it. Stick with it. They're always gonna bet on you because they will always bet on talent, and they may run out of money. You know, It's almost like Warren't sitting at the poker table and they're they're Charlie. Chips are getting shorter and shorter until it we get a winning hand. But I do think they'll keep betting on me until they're out of options. And it's part of the reason we cut six songs and not a whole album that was really refreshing as well, because I know people just don't have the attention span. I don't honestly, you know, I don't have the attention span for a full record anymore. I hated about myself if talk comes up and at sixty seconds, I'm like, why am I spending forty five extra seconds watching this TikTok fifteen seconds? Well, albums are season tickets. I still believe they're important. But you don't just wake up one day and buy season tickets to the Red Sox. You become a Red Sox fan. You go to a nice analogy. I believe the same. I didn't know that's exactly how I believed it, but see that's a great one. Like I would buy and have our Arkansas Razor back season tickets. There you get Cargo Cubs season tickets. I would have those. But if I'm gonna go to a Red Sox game, like, canna buy some I need to go and watch a lot of Red Sox. Get invested. You gotta get invested, man, I'm not to get invested fan. But yeah, that that's an interesting analogy. I'm gonna steal that, my right, But yeah, I'm act like I said that. Okay, no use it. I stole it from somebody. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's uh Warner knows that there playing this. It's almost like playing the lottery, you know. And I don't say that in an insulting way because I believe in you more than not more than anybody, because I'm not putting my money in you, but I believe in you so much. I'm a big fan of what you do, not just as an artist, but who you are as person. But there's all there have been people who have vouched for me, and I gotta find a million bucks by the FCC, they came charging after me and my company had to make a decision, yeah, like are they gonna pay that million bucks and keep me on? Right? And luckily someone said, hey, okay, right, we're losing a little money with him right now. But he's gonna make it back force at some point. That's right, And thank god somebody believed in me and hung with me through that well. And so it is. It's Chris at the label, but it's so many people and people who kept me going, I mean for me personally in my brain and my heart being able to keep going. One of the biggest things was the year two thousand nineteen because uh I was once again reinventing myself, and the two phone calls I got were to go out on the road events be his guitar player and to go out with Old Crow Medicine showing be a member of that band for a year. And that really put me at ease and and kind of was like this cosmic voice saying, dude, it's gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine, and it's s bo. You know. I remember Spo bringing me into his office the same man. I think he played me like Frank Zappa or something crazy. He said, if you want to sound like this and played a twenty people, or if you want to sound you know, if you want to sell out Bridge Stone Arena. Either way, we want to be in business however we can, and so we've we've cut these six songs. I feel really good about them, and yet for a million reasons out of my control, they may not work. Uh, but I think we've got these six and I think because we just cut six that I got one more swing in the bad at Warner after this if it doesn't work, and I'll still make records even after that, even if they don't work, I'll find a way to do it. You know, you might be the most beloved person in town Underaget just in general. Like nobody, nobody dislikes you. People love you. People either love you or they don't know you well enough. That's what I say about you, Like they either love you to their core because you're such a good, honest, authentic guy, or they just haven't spending time with you. You know, you are a very passionate person. I can respect that in so many ways. And so for me, I'm glad when you're back on the media or you know, putting music out, because that means I could to talk to you and again and put another light on you. Because let's if you have if you have any music out and have you over and we're just talking, it's like alright, by WAJ for dinner, yeah, you know, Yeah, it's just such a it's to me, it's so much fun to get to talk about it because you know, I grew up the son of my mom being a school teacher, and I recognize about myself. You know, up until this last time working with Jay, I've always made my records with my best friends and and I've always come into music from that side door of playing on other people's records and backing other people up. I like to be the sponge. I like to approach everything as a student, and I'm starting to get the idea that when you're making your own record, that's not your job. Your job is to grab that spotlight with both hands and say everybody, you'll pay attention to me, Like I never would have said on the microphone. I got the goods until now because I now understand that there's a certain part of this role that requires you to have It doesn't have to be cockiness at confidence. Yeah. I think if you don't believe in you, nobody believes in you, and sometimes you have to scream. I believe in me to make people listen off any sort of microphone or TV camera. I got nothing to say, right, I'm a quiet guy, I'm I'm down, but you're right. When it's time to go, I do have to do that and go, hey, listen to me. That's right. Like I like you guys should listen to me because you have time and you listen to somebody, so it might as well be me, because I have things that have compelling things to say. Get on this bush, I'm driving it and I can take you somewhere you can't go without me. I love that. I love that you're you're feeling that and saying that now. Yeah, man, thanks, I'm just staring at you after I say that to see what you'll say. But yeah, like the fact that you have this confidence outward confidence because you've always had it inwardly you know how good you are. But what what what actually triggered that? Why now do you feel like? All right? This is this is it? Next next level? Awes a million things, I mean one of the big things, and you can hear it in the in the new music. This through This Town is a great example with the guitar solo. Uh man, we got married and I can honestly say I've become buddies with my hero with Vince Gill and uh he called me up and said, man, come by the house. Got a wedding present for you. And I'm thinking, dude, we're gonna get the most amazing toaster I've ever seen in my life. And I show up at his house and you can if if folks see the music video for Fist through this town, they're seeing to me walking with this sort of gold guitar case. Uh. And that gold guitar case was sitting on the floor next to him, and in the case was the guitar I play in the video. And when I started working with j on this music, he said, man, bb King, Keith Richards, all these guys they had their one guitar. You got your read guitar, you know. I mean you have other guitars, but like you've got your your it's your thing. And uh, He's like, dude, I challenge you to play one guitar on these recordings. And so I was like, well, I'm playing the Vince guitar. It's in nineteen sixty give some three thirty five. It's like, it's my dream guitar. Did it sound as good as you it would? Oh? Man? Yeah. The crazy thing was I had played it before, so the first time I went out on tour back in Vince up. He said, man, if there's anything you need, let me know. I've got tons of instruments in gear like happy to let you borrow it on the road. And I said, man, I love three thirty five. So that guitar was on my guitar stand on the first day of rehearsals, and I fell in love with it then, and he knew that. Of course, I had no idea that he was some day give it to me. And being given that instrument was a big shot in the arm of confidence. It is like, oh my gosh, I have this. Now I have to make good on it. And uh. And then enter j and going, you're not gonna bring in a whole bunch of pedals. You're not gonna bring in a bunch of amps. Pick one guitar and one amp and let's go. And it's funny to the amp. I called John Osborne, who's a buddy, and uh, he has this amazing old Fender amp. It's a it's a tweet Deluxe, And so I borrowed John's Tweet Deluxe, have Vince's guitar, and and it's it's just hard to go into a studio with Jay Joyce playing Skills guitar and John Osborne's am and feel like you're not gonna just do something great. You kind of can't lose with that combo and uh and and then we had this fantastic experience. And Jay, you know, I've worked with him on Eric Church Records, on Chief and on the Heart and Soul that just came out. And so a big fan of j and knew him a little bit, but I didn't know him well enough to be super comfortable with him. And the cool thing about Jays He's not precious about anything. As soon as we get the part the take, he is on to the next thing. There's no victory dance, there's no listen back to the song three times. And that was really refreshing. It made me put everything I had into every take because I was like, this might be my last chance to do it. Which song? And I'm gonna I'm ask you this. I would ask you off the year. I anna ask you now because I do want you to come into the radio show and play one of the songs, but which one? And you're releasing them kind of staggered out, but which one? And when you don't have to answer right now, But I'm gonna give you that ticket to cash in, all right, that when it when, when, when what? Whichever one comes out that you want to come up and play on the show. We don't put as many people on the show anymore. Honestly, it got to the point where there aren't Nashville as compared to other New York City Los Angeles as far as entertainment goes, there just aren't as many acts that it doesn't seem like people are coming through all the time, like and let me use a friend of mine so they won't get offended. Uh, Like how many times you gonna have Brett Eldred John over and over again twice a year, three times a year, where it's just like the same folks coming through a lot where people start to get bored and go, I just heard Tim mcgrawl like three months ago. So we don't bring as many people in, so it keeps it kind of exciting and new. And just because somebody puts out new music, I don't. I don't have people in unless I really feel strongly about it. That being said, I'm gonna give you this ticket. It's definitely not gold. It's more like a comperate because I called a copper. Tickets just get a little valuable, but not the most, you know, So when you have this song that you want to come and play for my audience, you can cash then oh man, I thank you. So you don't have to play the song now. But do you know which tick? You know which song it will be? Uh? Or do you need time and you don't want to commit? Well, I'll say this, there's two. There's two at flip a coin on you know one and I was gonna ask you the same thing off the mike, and I will not give you advice on that though, because this is my opinion on your career. When it comes to picking songs, I have learned that is not good for me to do because people will actually listen to me, and my advice is no better than anybody else's on what song is good? If that makes sense, Like, I don't value my opinion on listening to a song more than I would somebody at your record label, and I would hate to shift some or let's say I don't shift your opinion and you feel guilty and you're like, well, you told me this, I didn't pick it because he's kind of oh yeah, you open up a can of worm. So I don't. So I don't, And I would I tell you that off the air type like telling you which one, Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you off the air the two that I think are the most likely that I'm and and and maybe putting them out in the world and seeing what happens. I'm not that I would pick a a goal based on the number of views on YouTube, but it is it can be telling, right, what's what's connecting? And? Uh, I mean I've seen that with your show with music before you mentioned song and play snippet of it shoots up the charts on iTunes. I mean you can. You can sometimes get a little It's like you know when people lick their finger and put it in the wind to see which way it's blowing. Uh, but just think about it, you have to. I don't need an answer now. But in a month, two months, three months, Hey, I'm ready to cash on my ticket and come play this song. Alright, I go, all right, let's book it and get it up. Let's go all right, thank you, we'll move on from that. It's I mean, it's been two years since new music. What is the best feeling is it when you write it, when the song is done being recorded, or when you finally get to release it. Oh uh, I'd say between those three, because I thought you were going to throw out like when you play it in front of an audience, and that that one's probably the most amazing. I mean, that one's just yeah, that's a that's a singular experience for sure. Uh So when you write it and it's done, when you record it and it's done and you get to hear the full or when it's finally released and the people finally start to get to hear it, well, I'll say this time around, it was when the recording was done, and it's that's because I have learned, you know, similar to you saying I'm not going to pick the song because I'm not the right person to do or whatever, like, uh, your your personal feelings maybe don't align necessarily with what the people who the suits at the label are gonna how they approach it. And for me as a songwriter, I've learned that I don't know when I write the song. You know, there's a song on coming out that's it's one of the two that I wrote by myself and I was just writing it to get out of a pub deal. I'd have been fired from my pub deal. And uh, I didn't think anything of it. And I almost didn't play it for Chris Lacey at Warner and when I did, she goes, don't let anybody here that if George Straight here's an he's gonna cut it. That's a country that's country goal or whatever, and so I was like, wow, I really would not have thought that. So finishing the song, it's rare that I get that feeling, you know, that endorphin release, like, oh my gosh, I just wrote the best song I've ever written. I mean, you get that feeling, but then you don't know if anybody else is going to feel that way. And releasing the music this time around, uh gosh. Man, I was at home my son, you know, so I had this. My mind is my heart has been split between these two worlds. It's still exciting, but in the fall, the world will still shut down. And I've waited so long to record these songs, and uh, hearing those mixes back and then going get being able to get in my car, drove home and listen to the music and having that feeling like Okay, songs different songs different this time around. Like the way I'm singing is different. There's a difference in my guitar playing, like I'm I am really feeling it here on your chest. What you're saying, yeah, a little yeah, a little confidence, a little I got the goods. I like that. I could have became out right, But that's just when I came to town and you were doing that record cycles when we first met. That's right. Um, if you go back and you re listen to that song, do you revisit it musically and go, Man, if I was cutting this right now, this is what I would do different. Uh? Goodness, you know, I feel like it was all the right thing at that time. I'll tell you what I would do different, is uh the song want me To? I camped that vocal myself. I should not have done that. I stayed up one night at studio and and did all of that and worked on some guitar parts and all of that. And I shouldn't have had that kind of access, uh, but I did. And then another thing I think I might have attempted or if I could do something different from that album cycle, I might have put out a different song as a second single that said, You've supported the heck out of that song, and I'm grateful. I love it. I love it, and it's a great song live. It works live. But if I had been able to know what was going to happen with country music and broke country hitting and everything, it was it was me trying to compete in that world versus me doubling down on what I do best, and that what I do that other people don't. And so I might have put something unexpected like Young to See or my song How I Learned to Pray Out, or even Trouble Is, which still had some like radio magic vibes to it. What was more me right? Uh? Not that Want Me Too wasn't me at the time, or it wasn't me at the time, but want Me To was. It was a fear based decision versus a no man Young to See, Come on, dude like that that isn't anywhere else right now, and and me at thirty five can look around and see, you know, wow, man, look at when Brothers Osborne just go and be the Brothers Osborne, they find their crowd looking. When Mary Morris comes out on my Church, she finds her crowd and and now I know, now I know that's the move. Uh So that would have been what I would change, but the way we cut could it be. I wouldn't change the thing, man, even the acoustic guitar solo. I kind of love that I put an acoustic guitar solo in a song. And uh and all that. How do you get involved with working with church? And he did? Heart and Soul? Who who gives you that call? And and and what did you do? Yeah? So, uh, that relationship began on on the Chief album and at the time I published your art Arturo binderhor Jr. Who was a big, big part of my early journey and getting me in this whole world. Uh, he's worked with Eric from day one and uh he kind of threw my name in the hat to come play and played a few things that went well. Uh. Eric's talked in interviews about how with Desperate Man, he felt like they got too comfortable, so they wanted to shake things up and they were looking back over uh just his whole discography and at at things they thought, well, all right, we've we found the magic here. Let's try and recreate that, you know. Uh So I just got apt as as one of the folks who had been a part of that magic on Chief Uh and UH. Next thing I know, I'm on a bus headed banner ELK and I played probably more on Heart than I did on Soul. But I gotta tell you my favorite track I played on and the one where I feel like I put my most most of my stamp on is uh a song called do Side that's on the end on the fans only one and Uh for anybody who has access to that song, check out that bono down't thunk down't Down't this funky little banjo thing. It's me playing banjo and it's a little riff I came up with. And the groove is from because we had all this time to kill because Eric was writing songs during the day and we'd hang out, you know, just Jay and which I love because I kind of knew then. I was like, I want to work with Jay. I want to get some hang time. And he played me records I've never heard. And the one record I played him he had never heard, this old record by Freddie King called Burglar. It's like funk blues stuff like nothing you'd ever expecting country music. And sure enough, like that day I had played that record for j and that night Eric brought into side, and so the band is ripping off Freddy King with this little banjo riff that I had on it. But the stuff that everybody can hear on Heart, like the the acoustic on stick that in your country song was was me uh and I think that was It was a wild experience where the power was cutting in and out and we got it in the first take banjo on crazy Land, I'm playing, um, oh, what's the Heart on fire? They let me take all the solo stuff on that one, and then that was fun. Man. I kept you know, Jay just kept pushing me and pushing it, like play more notes, play more notes because I'm sure I'm like always trying to be tasteful and stuff. He's like, no, man, I don't want to hear more stuff, you know. And that was That was just a wild, really cool experience. You ever get with anyone in the room and you're playing and you you're like wow, like I'm because I just can't see you thinking you're out of your league with anybody, but you ever get anyone, you're kind of blown away. How good they are? Oh all the time. You know, and and but that's what I seek out. You know, Uh, I know every you know you could you could put a edit together. How many times I quote name dropped Vince Gil in this interview or any interview. But he's just so full of wisdom and one of the great pieces of wisdom that he imparted to me early on. Uh, same advice he got from from someone else, uh when he was starting out. Never be the best musician in your band. Always surround yourself for people who up your game, because if you're the best player in your band, you got nothing to learn. And so, and being in Vince's band, I was surrounded. I mean Paul Franklin, I mean, he's going to be in a country music Hall of Fame one day as a steel guitar player, obviously, Vince, you know, John Jarvis, and just all of these incredible players all around my Wendy Moten an incredible vocalist and uh and so, I mean there were definitely like days and shows sound checks on that tour where I'm like, what am I doing out here? But then there are moments where you I'll play a killer solo and be like daging all right, I can hang and uh, but it's the it's it's wanting to be on the field with people who up your game. That's that's what I seek. So I hope for those experiences where I feel a little out of MILLI I mean Brian Sutton comes to mind as somebody a musician who's just like he's just next level, just absolute next level. But but we all have something to bring to the table. I mean, I got that call to play on the Eric record, and get the call to play on these other records. Not because I'm the literally the fastest guitar player. I'm far from literally the most technical, technically great guitar player. Brian Suton might be. I would put my money on that, but but I have a d n A. I gotta sound, you know. It's a little bit of growing up in Mississippi, and like the way I've been notes, uh and and so I bring a flavor into the the recipe and sometimes that that in reading is called for, and sometimes it isn't. Aside from really special player musicians who is an artist, did you look at and go holy crap, like that's what they're doing is so good? I mean, Eric is a great example, especially as a songwriter. If he had never made a record of his own, I think he'd be one of the most competitive writers in town. I don't think anybody argues that. Uh. Miranda Lambert was one of the first to take me out on the road. Taylor Swift. Those were two hard acts to follow, so to speak. I mean what they taught me, both on and off stage, about how to run an organization, how to put on a show and treat the fans, right, ah, man, I mean there's so many there's so many great great artists. What about playing artists, Oh, playing artists. Oh, let me think here, not Vince. We know you're gonna say ven Keith Urban Uh and doing the A C N S with him, that was a trip too, because I mean, you know, first time I saw him in concert, Uh, he was playing about thirty five people at this festival in Jackson, Mississippi. He was just coming out of the gate. It was that record post the Ranch, and he was just burning it up. And I knew them, but I know even more now how hard it is to sound great with such a small band. I think he had to or maybe three. I think he drums, bass and fiddle backing him up. So it was all up to him, you know. And he's such a dynamic guitar player. He connects visually what he's doing for the crowd. So even if you're not getting it, you know, as a as a fellow player or whatever, you feel it you recognize. And and he's got such a signature sound he would be at the top of that list. I saw Luke Hombs playing a song that you guys had written. I think it's an unreleased song from YouTube. Is he ever putting ever? Mind right? Ever? Mind? That's it? Yeah? Is you ever putting that out? I hope so. I mean I would be like, Luke, you put it out, like cut it? Man. We've written three songs together. And I'm like, and we I was in the studio with him. He's got a record coming out, uh and uh we're gonna be back in the studio again soon. You know, he's working on his next record. I love being a part of that that band. Uh. But uh yeah, we've got three songs and and I'm like, come on, man, any one of these would be great. And uh. And we wrote another song me and him and Thomas Rhett that I I hope Thomas cuts if you're listening to r come on man Um. But he's got a whole other record he's still working on. I know, I know, I got my fingers. I was just talking to him the other day and not on a microphone. I was like, hey, no, you've a dult record like they've both done. He's like, he said, we got the first one, all right, So you're telling me there's a chance. The chance. So, but let's say Luke doesn't put it out and tr doesn't put it out, then in this next cycle, then does that give you Clarence if you want to put it out, you can, I think so. But I will say with these songs specifically, they feel more for them than me, and and you know, I mean all all jokes side and stuff, and in all seriousness like having been in that position, I'll understand when a song doesn't fit right, even if it fits that artist, it may not fit them at that time. And songs come in at all times. They come in the eleventh hour and something knock something off. So I get that that's how it works. And as someone who gets to participate as the artist. There are so many talented, just straight up songwriters out there that I don't want to take a spot away from them when they deserve that or earned that. Uh. So it would depend on the song and and then those cases, I don't know that those songs would end up on my record. Uh, but there are other songs for sure that fit that description. Dirk's just cut a song online, uh that you know, I really wanted to cut for me, But I'm not mad about Derek's cutting it. You know that'll be great and I still played in my set, right. I think about that with Eric Passlay and folks like that. You know. Shoot, they they wrote songs for other people and still play him in their show. If Dirk's song, but it's it's not gone right, it's not it's gonna be do you know if it's gonna be a single? Don't know yet. Like that's that's the part where you're like, come on, if you're gonna take it, If you're gonna take it, and I wanted to cut it, like let's make it a single. At least you said. People think it's cool. Otherwise you want to, you know, an album cut from Dirk's People like what is it? What is that? There's like the two people in back, they're like yeah, he did it. They were the one Benn diagram of you and Dirk's where they meet in the middle. They're in that little spot. Um okay, well, I'm pretty pumpy that that you're working in all these different areas because you're just kind of top of your game in so many spots, like writing, they have people the best of the best. Have you been writing the best of the best. Have you been playing the best of the best? Have you in on a label performing like eventually? And I say this about you eventually because Steve Martin said, be so good that they basically it's be so good they can't deny you, right, like they might for a little bit, but be so good that you you just can't be denied. And that's what I've tried to do with my life, Like people told me no over and over, so I was like, screw it. I'm just gonna go and be so freaking good. And either if they don't think I'm good, they're gonna look and see how people come with me, and they're gonna have to put me on things that's right. And I feel like you're that, Like you personify that even more than I do. Like you're so good in all these areas that they can't they can't just hold you back forever. Oh, thank you. Well, And I don't think anybody is the world. Yes, well, things you can't control, that can't control, Yes, that's it. Not not no one's holding you back going At're not gonna let you be creatively you But but so far these things that you can't quite predict haven't worked out in your favor. Freaking broke Custer comes along right as you're hitting your first record. But you know what, that was one of the best gifts that I could have been given because it gave me a chance to learn about myself work on myself. Uh. And I've I've gotten an O Tyler pretty well from F G L. And he's one of my favorite songwriters in the format. But imagine if we had ten number ones and then you learned about yourself like that was real learning. Well you, I'm talking to you. Imagine if you wouldn't have to learn about yourself, you could just be you and well that see that. And I believe I would have gotten into some trouble if I if I had had Oh, I think it's very possible. Absolutely, I mean, yeah, I went to I went to this place called on site. Yeah, oh man, oh me too, And I remember talking to someone there, and when I was there, I examined my drinking because I thought, well, I don't think I'm an alcoholic, but I could definitely cross that line if I'm not careful. So I went to an a A meeting just was like, let me just pretend for three days that I'm an alcoholic? Can I do this if I if I need to make that decision, and talking to someone in that meeting, and it's all confidential, you know, so nobody's gonna know who this person is. But I remember him going, yeah, I know, I know how. You know how it is, man. You blow off work and you have a couple of whiskeys. Next thing you know, you're at your up state a state and you've told the guard at the at the gate, like locked the gate, and you don't do anything but rod dirt bikes and do blow for three days. And I'm just like, yeah, I can't afford that kind of trouble. But if I'd have had massive success, you can very much afford much bigger trouble very quickly. And that could have happened because I had that anger that you here in fist. Uh, that's really fear. That's another thing I learned it on site. Is it anger and fear two sides of the same coin. And I was always angry because deep down I was afraid that I was not going to get a seat at the table. That's what it came down to. Wrecked in a good way. Me Oh, me too. It's like, can you hear about I had friends that went in the military, one of the army, and they were like, well, they knocked me down to build me back up. That's exactly what I did. I walked in and it it was like boom, yeah and then slowly And I was never someone to subscribe and go I'm gonna go to this place and get But you know, it was Dave Heywood. Him and I were talking. He's like, hey, you know what, because Dave, like me, is creative, but he's also very analytical and he's like, you know, it might be good for you, and he's like, you're working with both sides of your brain in a lot of ways. And you got a lot of trauma from your child because I went to on site not saying you should go, So I just kind of stored that away and thought about it. Then Nicole Galleon was talking to her and she was like kind of the same thing. He was like everything by going on site, and I'm like, why does everybody keep telling me to go to therapy camp? And a little bit I was getting offended. I was like, why do people keep telling me to go to therapy camp? And then I was having coffee with Tyler Hubbard and him and I had had some issues, some personal issues, and we were just kind of ironing it out and talking face to face in person, because you can see where a lot of stuff can be misconstrued when you're not together. And we were talking about it and we had a really great talk, and he was like, man, I'll tell you what helped me so much was going to on site. And I was like, all right, three of you suckers have told me this, so I'm just gonna go. And so I went and I came out and I recommended to people and they've gone, and it changed me to the point where I left that place exhausted. Didn't have my phone for a week. I remember flip. I didn't even want my phone at first first day, I was like, I name my phone I'm scratching, I'm going through withdraw. I name my phone after about day two and a half and you're going you're going to bed when the sun goes down, you're reading books all the time, you're meeting people. I was like, I don't ever want my phone again. I only take about six hours and I wanted my phone. But still when I turned it on, I was like, oh man, I'm going back into a place that that I really wasn't looking forward to going back to. But it changed. It changed me. It's really excited to hear you went and it helped you too. Oh man. I just shouted from the rooftops. I believe in it so much. My thing. When I left, though, I drove straight to five Points Pizza in order to double order a garlic not says like I need some carbs. Well listen, man, I'm pumped that you were starting this chapter. Yeah, and this season of you, because you've got so much going on positively around and about you. One that's your family, your wife, you got a new son, yeah, your music, which you're never going to stop doing, but mostly your energy, Like it's a different energy. Well, thanks man, And I've seen three energies now you have, and you've always honestly, Bobby, you've been there every time, you know, at at that cross roads point, and you've always just whether you knew it or not, man, you've you've been encouraging. And I know I'm not alone in that experience with you. And that really matters to Uh, that matters to anybody who does this, you know, for someone that they know that they respect to really truly see them and say hey, keep going. It's like, you know, it really makes a difference. And I'm just so grateful for this scenic route. I call it the scenic Rout to start them because it's it's made everything even more rich for me in my heart. And yeah, I get to be a dad too with all this, So I'm like, hey, what did you do? Dude? Text all you want. I mean, you've got a lot of great dads, you know. I mean, Tyler is great, and I don't know Jordan's as as well as I do Tyler, but I know he's great too. He was on the dad Ville podcast recently, which you'll have to do when you're you're in there. I think we got a couple of years before there. That's day right. Yeah, Oh, yeah, not Dave Haywood though, Dave Barnes, Yeah, another great Dave. But yeah, man, well listen, here's what I want everybody to do. Listen right now. First of all, Charlie's Instagram Instagram is at Charlie Worsham, and that opens up the hole for you to go walking exploring because you can go your YouTube. I saw you do like a fifteen minute tutorial on the fifth of this town. Um. You lost me about minute about thirty seconds, and I was like, I can't do that. I can't even learn. But you know, you you put so much out there in your music. You put your heart on your sleeve about things you're passionate about, things that that that affect your heart that have nothing to do with music. You know. I think we're very similar in we fight for our home. Sometimes we have to fight against our home to actually be good for it. Yeah, and that's tough. It's tough, and that's tough because you never want to have to go through that. But I just yea, look, I look up to you in many ways. Um, so I'm glad you came over. You have a ticket, you have us a copper ticket alright. Whenever you're catching the Copper ticket. All right, come up and play whatever you want to play. Hey, you got a Plywood ticket for me? Whenever you decide to run for office, man, I will campaign all day long. I was coming. I was thinking about like slogans and stuff all the way down. I didn't have anything yet, but I'll get back to the Plywood ticket alright. Alright At Charlie Worsham, you guys check out Fist of this Town. When is the next song coming out? It's a song called Believe in Love. So three weeks or so well from when people hear this three weeks the day or within a couple of days of whenever one should sit there one week. Uh reminder for the premiere of Breaking Bobby Bones. Yeah, you know we got guys at all. He still finds a way to promote me, all right. Charlie Warsham Instagram at Charlie Worsham, Charlie, good to see you,