The Human Centipede

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Speaker 1: On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef In best start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, Caitlin, Yeah, Jamie, what was the last meal? You eight? I'm just asking, well, it it doesn't matter because I threw it up after watching this movie. Oh well, I just I was like, well, we're two friends and we've been on vacation together, and I just I was wondering what your last meal was here, wait, let me let me try again. It was definitely not someone else's poo pooh. Oh, what a disappointment. I was really hoping it was going to be someone else's poop poo. Well, well, egg on my face, uh and poopoo in my mouth. I didn't realize, Um, why what what was your last meal? Jamie? It was poop? It was it was it was, you know, and depending on I think the beauty of and today we are. We we thought, listen, like there's a lot going on. It's just like a really stressful, heavy time, and so we wanted to meet the moment with an episode about I think one of the most politically impactful pieces of I'll just go ahead and say art. Well, not only that, I would call this this is not only a feminist text. Oh yeah, I would say that this is a feminist masterpiece. Oh yeah, I totally agree. And so we wanted to like, we wanted to spotlight great feminist art um, to just start April and to to really just you know, I think it's like this is a if we're talking about gigantic feminist watershed moments in cinema. I'm shocked it took us almost five years to get to the Human Snipede, which is what we're covering. Yeah, and this is our probably most commonly requested episode. I think it's requested at least fifteen hundred times at this point, if not more. Um, the people are just gagging on pooh for us to cover this movie and finally we're here and we're doing it, so um, the time is now. First of all, wanted to apologize that it's taken us so long to cover it because the response, as you were saying, Caitlin, it has been really overwhelming and I feel like I'm getting two or three messages a day to say to the point where people have figured out what my home address are and they're sending me handwritten letters being like where is it? Where is it? Where is it? And so here it is. You know, it's understandably it's going to be, you know, a really serious episode. And but but I think that we're gonna have a really really rich, fiber full conversation and it's just gonna be a mouthful of fiber. I feel like in terms of what the episode is gonna be, like, what's gonna be you don't like to listen to? Yeah, so so this is the back pedcast. It's a really serious podcast. Yeah, I apologize for laughing. It's prior to what's going to be such serious. It's not funny. Yeah, this is a serious episode. Sometimes we do an episode on something, you know, like National Treasure where we can just go and sometimes we do something club or This is not one of those episodes. This, this is going to generate some very serious discourse. And I apologize for laughing because I was inappropriate. We laugh. Humans laugh in response to fear, and human centipede and human centipes um probably shouldn't laugh because their mouth is full. They can't they can't laugh if they laugh it's muffled. Um yeah, what if one of them, one of them gets a cold and their nose gets stuffed up? Do they just suffocate? I feel like we're introduced with kind of a cat dog dilemma with this film. But it's also just like what if there was a third animal between I mean, I guess with the human centipee, what separates a human centipede from a cat dog is the third piece is the centerpiece, Because apparently if you remove the center of the human centipede, all you have is a hilarious children's TV show. Um. But but the center, the center person, really is what elevates it to a feminist text, right, Yes, because I don't know. I mean, did we did you watch? Did you ever watch Cat Dog? I didn't know. I was a big cat dog fan, and and and fans of cat Dog and people who don't give a shit about cat dog are well versed in the argument in just the discussion of like where does the peepee come from? Where is the poop? Who come from? Does it come from the cat's mouth, does it come from the dog's mouth? Does it come from somewhere in the middle of the tube, And in the cat dog because cat Dog is like a cat head on one end and then a dog head on the other end, and they're just sort of like both attached at the abdomen kind of thing. Yeah, they're just it's a long animal tube and there's a cat at one and a dog on one end, and they're just, you know, they're just simple links and they have a sweet relationship, and they couldn't be more different. But they're on the same tube. But um, pooping, as far as I know, never comes up in the show, and and I think that that's maybe intense textually intentional, but there are times where okay, so in cat Dog, just to like ease us into the discussion, where I believe and cat dog heads please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe there are instances or perhaps a whole episode where cat gets hairballs and they come out of dogs mouth. So that's extremely confusing because it's not like cats poop out hairballs, they come out of their mouth, and so they're just kind of operating on a separate, separate level. Well, Cat Dog doesn't sound like it's medically accurate, which the human centipede claims to be. And as jam you and I are both doctors. We are, Yeah, we can confirm that the human centipeate is medically accurate. Yes, this is if if you were to do this, this is everyone would look like the Joker, except their head is attached to someone's butt. Um. That's exactly how it would go. And well, by the way, I mean, if this is your first episode, welcome, This is a really serious podcast that we started to really start human discussions. And I feel like our podcast is kind of a human centipete of ideas and in fact, we've really we really just we started the podcast to be able to talk about this episode. This is like the grand what if this is our last episode? This is the Grand Female? This is it. I feel like though, if you do remember that that when you contacted me, I mean I would say probably five years ago now about to start discussing, you know, doing this show together. This was I think it took up a good hour of our discussion of like, well, this is obviously where we're building too, or we we would want to build too, but it would take at least four years, and we need to build trust, and we need to build a listener base because we want this message to get across to as many mouths ear, but mouth really and as we can depending on what side of the center, peter On and some of us are on both sides, and so it's just it's an exchange of like what is a human centipete if not an exchange of ideas? You know, um where you know it's this human said to beat is a metaphor. And if you're in the center, oh certainly it's the least comfortable place to be. But are you not both giving and receiving ideas from your peers? Yes, yes, and the answers yes, and you may in fact be the ask girls as a result, uh the ba um yeah, even. I mean, you know, I wish that this is a really serious episode. I think it's really important to clarify what this show is about. So on this podcast we analyze movies, works of arts such as Human Centipede from an intersectional feminist lens, using the Backtel test as a jumping off point. And we've been you know, the test has been evolving along like our rendition of the test has been evolving along with the show these past many years, to the point where I would like to propose the newest rendition. I mean, what better episode do two people of any marginalized gender poop into the mouth of one another. I'm so glad you're saying this for at the end question mark, right. I mean it's dialogue, I think really notwithstanding because there there you are introduced with the problem when you get to a certain part of this Human Centipede of how on earth could we pass this test if if our mouths are sown to our dear friends anuss. But that's why I'm proposing this, because we don't want to leave anyone out. Absolutely not. This test is inclusive, and it you know, people who's who cannot communicate verbally because their mouth has been sown to the anus of some other person specific. Yeah, but you know it's it's representation that we had failed to see on screen before this movie. So this movie really sheds a light on those people and they should be included in the in this test. So I felt, I felt. I just want to start by saying I felt represented in the Human Centipede because I have been a clueless American white girl on vacation with a friend stumbling around there. You have been that friend at at at many points, and so it's like, oh, what is the human centipede. If not, you know, the worst case scenario of us on tour, of us just stumbling around wherever we happened to be, and if we got to the to the woods of question Mark, Common Germany, this very well could have been us. And so it's a cautionary tale in many ways as well. Um, what was your what was your experience with this? And I'd like to just call it a text. Um, I don't want to, you know, use kind of a dismissive term. It's not simply a movie. No, No, this this text this, uh, this document this manifesto, it's what what isn't it? Did you ever say documentary? Documentary? I was going to just say document but I was like, whoo. But when you think about it, it it could be maybe it is a documentary. What if we just don't it's a documentary, we just don't know it yet. Yeah, could be. So my relationship with this, I remember when the trailers were circulating on I think the internet, Like I didn't see the trailers weren't you know, on television or in front of any movie I was seeing in theaters. But okay, you're distancing I feel you. I feel you're distancing yourself from the human sense, and I'm sorry. Well, I saw the trailers and I was living with I think I was living with j T at the time. Word caught on about this movie, and I remember, I remember the marketing. The marketing was you know this. You get a sense of what the movie was about based on the trailer, and I remember the claims that it was medically accurate, and I was like, well, not only that, but it looks to me like it's the most feminist film ever made. So I have to see this. This is like, really, you know, an intersection of all of my interests, you know, medical accuracy, poo pooh feminism. Poop poo feminism was I think a big discussion in the late two thousand's. I would qualify a lot of movies that came out in the two thousands as poo poo feminism. Yeah, so we we got ahold of it somehow, j He and I. So I saw it in like I think it was like or maybe eleven. I don't know. You were early, you were really, I was an early viewer of this text. It is true, and I loved it. I was like, this is I feel I feel seen, I feel heard. I haven't seen a movie this feminist in ever, so it became one of my favorite movies of all time. What about your TV? My history with Human Centipede was I honestly wasn't sure even going into because I hadn't. I feel like I have a habit in my life depriving myself of joy, and so I hadn't seen this. I had just been kind of like intentionally depriving myself of this text for for years out of avoidance and just not wanting to feel really great. Um. I honestly wasn't sure in preparing for this episode if Human Centipede was like an online joke that became a movie, or if the movie came first and then it became an online joke because I had not seen so I had to go back and because you know how like I kind of thought that it was it had gone in the direction of slender Man, where like Human Centipede was this online thing and then it became I p But it turns out I was quite wrong. It came from the mind of one genius and then Mr Tom six Feminist Icons six. Yeah, I think we should up him to seven. While we're at it. Um Tom six, who is also I mean, I think fascinating is an applicable word. Just who he is, um, the Tom six universe, um, and how he got his money is fascinating to me. We'll get to that. But yeah, I kind of thought this was an Internet thing that became a cinematic text and was I don't know if the phrase is pleasantly surprised, but I was, you know, artistically intrigued that it was in fact a single person's idea that I mean, most of what I knew about the human centipede was just like internet jokes, like because I feel like they, I mean they you know EBB that they you know, wax and Wayne like the moon. But human centipede jokes are always around, and in fact, I think there should be more of them. Let's get let's get to waxing folks. We need more human centipede jokes. Going seriously. Um, yeah, So this was my first time really taking it all in. I felt I felt really center of the centipede. Um. I was taking it in and I was letting it out, you know. So it was an absolute pleasure to prepare for this really important episode. I will say, what is okay, this is maybe I don't want to like get ahead of ourselves. But what is your favorite part of Humans and Defeat, Like, what's your favorite theme? I do have a favorite, like moment um. This feels like cheating, but all of them, every scene I love. I love that it's a tight I was honestly thrilled to be like, oh, it's just an hour and a half. I was terrified that it would be a second longer. My favorite moment in the Human Centipede parentheses first sequence, by the way, and you know we did not watch the other two. I did consider it though, but I said, you know what, I've felt enough joy for one week. I you need things to look forward to, you know, especially especially in this pandemic. It's not a binger. I mean, yeah, you want to like prolong this as much as you can, exactly. My favorite moment in first sequence was when the so, you know, the cops are a little too good in this movie, right, I don't know what German cops are like, but I can assume not great, right, But there is a moment where when after the police have arrived, where they're like, so you made the Human Centipede, right, and he's like, no, no, I did not make the human sent feed, but the human centipete cage is out. And my favorite moment in the whole cinematic text is when the cop is looking at the humans and human sentipet cage and going, h what is this? But it's literally the human centipete cage and it's just out there for anyone, for anyone to stumble across. So, you know, I just thought that that was a beautiful moment of I don't I mean, I don't even know what I would call you have to film degrees, what would you know? What is that play there? What's going on there? Me? Is it irony? Is it? It's a little bit, it's you know, I would classify it as a number of things. It's um, you know, it's perhaps foreshadowing. It's um, it's motif, it's it's allegory, it's definitely Oh, there's a lot of metaphorically on here. Yeah, um, you know, it's plant and payoff, it's it's just a lot of it's a lot of narrative devices all rolled into one. Because you know, this is just a really masterfully written screenplay that is just like making use of a lot of just like very effective narrative devices. I totally agree. I mean, and I had a fun like White Stripes moment trying to figure out if Tom six and a Lot of six were married or siblings. Oh, um, they are siblings, unlike the White You. I always assumed the White Stripes were siblings, but they were dating. This is quite the opposite, I see. But yeah, I mean this is this isn't you know, an oh to our piece, uh from from the six family, which which is kind of fun down to the editing. You know, Tom six was one of the credited editors, of course, So I mean, when you have this brilliance a concept, you have to be really protective of it. I mean, you wouldn't want to get this wrong. You don't want to put this in the hands of some ya who who can't edit together the Human Centipede. Yeah, I understand that he wanted to do that himself. Yeah, a movie is so good that nonfeminine like misogynist icon. Roger Ebert refused to give it any rating because it was to quote unquote gross, which I think intentionally misses the point. Yeah, gosh, Roger Ebert, don't get us started. I already know we were not going to refuse to give it a rating on our scale and cowards. I already know what rating I'm going to give it, which is obviously five nipples. Oh yeah, I don't see any reason to hold back on what we're going to be giving this movie. It's going to be five and well, actually, actually the human centipede featured in this film has six nipples. Oh that's true. Let's be included. Let's include every nipple. So human snapede facts with Caitlin human sonapedes. At least this I mean there. I mean again, I haven't seen the sequels. I don't know if more centipedes get attached. My understanding is, and I honestly didn't fully check, but my understanding is that with each passing film, the centipede gets the centipede gets longer, several times longer. Yeah, that makes sense. So at least for um, what's this one called first sequence? The third one? The third one may in fact be as like scented like a full hundred. I'm not totally sure, but they might have. Really, that's where it was added. That's I mean heightening. If you want to learn about heightening and storytelling, my gutwait really quick, just go to the Wikipedia page for the Human Centipee three and look at the poster and it might be more than a hundred on god, that is so I don't want to know anything else. This is so fucked up. That's a lot of people. Uh so, yeah, safe to say it gets longer than three. Um, but we did not, We did not watch It looks like it just gets longer with every movie. And I'm pretty sure based on I consulted horror buff and friend of the cast Corey Johnson about this because I was like, who, off the top of my head, can I be certain has seen all three Human Centipee movies and it is her? And of course she said, um, she said, what what we know already, which is that there is a message to the first Human Centipede movie if what you sacrifice, and that is a pretty short centipede. And as the centipede gets longer, perhaps the powerful message gets smaller. You know, it's a given take. So if you want a long centipede, it has to be meaningless. If you have a short centipede, you can have a powerful, tight react structure. Sure of course. Yeah. So all that to say that the centipede featured in this first film, this first work of art has six nipples. Therefore, that is what I will be giving this movie. I wis, yes, thank you, thank you so much. Um so, uh do we need to talk about anything else before I recap this brilliant narrative? Um? I don't think so. I mean I think that you know, we we shouldn't hold back any longer and really just like really, you know, release like the information. Yeah, I'd love to um feed you so to speak the recap Oh yes, please, please please and iconic? How did that not end up on an a f I list? Feed her, feed her, and if you apply that to feed her knowledge, it becomes this really powerful thing. It all depends on the direction you're coming at it analytically. It's a brilliant film. Yeah, of course. Actually, let's take a quick break first, you know, go to the bathroom or whatever you need to do, and will be right back. Okay. The Human Centipede first sequence opens on a man. He is looking at some photos of three dogs who are seen all kind of standing in a single file line. They're in a row. They seem to be sniffing each other's butts. We don't, but we don't really might it be something more? And then we see that same man approach a trucker who has pulled off the road to take a poopoo, which is the first, um, the first indication that that poopoo might be featured as a motif in this film. I really thought that was a tasteful introduction of what a prominent motif was going to be, because then you go back and you watch it later and you're like, oh my god, I mean again, foreshadowing at its finest. Incredible stuff. Yeah, really really thoughtful. So the man is seen approaching this uh, this truck driver with a gun. Oh god, and we're like, oh. Then we cut to two women, Lindsay and Jenny. They are American tourists in Germany and they are heading to a party but they get lost. Their car gets a flat tire, they get out and walk through the middle of the woods, which, really, it should be said, the entire beginning of the movie between Lindsey and Jenny pretty thoroughly passes the Bechdel test. They are talking to each other about like do I want to go out? Do I not want to go out? What do I want to do? Oh my gosh, you know where we are No, I don't. They're having really impactful conversations, and so I feel like, also early on, you learned like, oh, this is about women, this is about women, this is a woman's story. This is an empowering story about female friendship. Yeah, we see them interact a lot, and I honestly, I'm genuinely very invested in their friendship, particularly with and we'll get there, but like where their story goes, you know, and where their story and I honestly I was not prepared for where their story ends and how UM genuinely like, oh, I'm sad I was going to feel at the end. I value their friendship. They seemed to They seem to be like really complimentary late two thousands, I like, I like when I think it's Jenny Who's like, I'm wearing shorts and high heels. I'm not getting out of the car. And I was like, wow, that is what people were saying in two thousand nine, you know it is. So they're wandering through the woods. They're wandering through the woods, and they eventually come upon a house. They knock on the door, and who greets them, who opens the door? But the man we saw at the beginning but we forgot to mention that when they are stuck there, the creepy guy pulls up and he hits on them, he scares them. This is like plot relevant, so that by the time they go into the woods, they are already very anxiety written, they already feel really nervous, and so I feel like you're given and I have some notes about the way that seems to present it. But um, they've already been kind of been made to feel unsafe before they find this house, so they're already on like ty alert. Yes, and this man opens the door, he invites them in there, like, hey, can you call the car company for us so that we can, you know, hitch a ride out of here, And then he says are you alone? Which is never a way to start a conversation with the scariest looking person I've ever seen in my life. Yes. Also, that actor's name is Dieter Laser, which is also a very menacing name. Just everything. And then the more I learned about the actor and his conduct on set, I'm like, he just sounds like a scary, scary guy. Yeah, we'll talk about Mr Lazer. It's probably like Laser or or something. Please our German our German listeners forgive us, but I just I was like, his last name is Laser. He's scary. And then you look up the facts about production and then everyone's like, no, he was quite scary. Yep, everyone agrees. So he pretends to call the car company for them, and then he gives them both a glass of water which he has drugged so the women lose consciousness. They wake up in his basement tied to hospital beds. The trucker from earlier is there as well, also tied to a bed, and the man who Dr. Hyder, Yeah, Dr Hyder comes in and he's like, he says to the truck driver that he's not a match. We don't really know exactly what he means, what context, but he kills the truck driver while Lindsay and Jenny watch on in horror. What did he mean when he said you are not a match? Was there a reason that he wasn't a match? I wasn't sure in text why precisely he wasn't a match? What was I don't know if it was like a blood type thing, oh, like literally a medical reason that a human cent like all the human centipes have to have, like viby blood types. I don't. Well, again, um, we should know this since we are doctors women in stems. If you're a gay human centipide, do the blood types need to be vibe are? Like there are certain pre existing conditions that disqualify you from participation eating. I wonder what it would be. Yeah, I mean I know that like if you're getting a an organ transplant, for example, you have to like make sure that there's some kind of and again I don't know if it's blood type match or some other just sort of like compatibility thing. Um, but yeah, my guess was there there was like a medical reason that the truck driver could not participate and he had to go. It was nothing personal, but you've been said to be it's never personal. That's and I love that that's a major theme in this movie. Um, it's important to remember that sometimes the fate that the truck driver suffers is uh far less bad than like the fate he would have suffered if he had. Yeah, I think we would all agree we would rather just just die. So he kind of gets off easy. Yeah, he gets let off the hook, but we still but we still need I'm sorry, did you say but I'm sorry. I was trying to hit the t hard so that it would be implied that there were two of them. Um but lead one more but to make a human centipede. And that's when Dr Hyder comes home with a new man, cut Serro, who he has abducted, and then he explains to all of them what he plans to do. So the thing with him is he is a retired surgeon who used to specialize in separating conjoined twins. Right, he uses a dismissive and very dated term that we're not even going to repeat here, but yes, conjoined twins is the is the correct term to use. One of the few mistakes um this otherwise perfect movie. Yes. Um So, now that he is retired, he has kind of refocused his efforts and takes his surgical expertise and pivot applies it to He's pivoting, he's having a second he's having honestly, like my my dad just retired and he's kind of looking for a second act. And so I kind of want to show him this movie as a kind of aspirational thing of like, oh, you already have applicable skills, you just need to find your second act. You know, and so you know that the doctor's really decided on what his second act is going to be, which is that he now is obsessed with surgically joining people together but a very particular way, in a very particular way. And what he is going to do is attach these three people together, mouth to anus in a chain, forming the iconic human centipede the feminist psychon. And so with the three I feel like with the three person human centipede, you really do have um, you know, everyone's role is quite different, and you know, the longer the centipede gets, the more kind of like central, Like if you're reaching human centipee three, which that I don't know what goes on in that movie, but there's like five people in that chain. That's like four parts of the human centipede. They could fucking unionize at that point. But in this point, but it's like if you just have three people, there's one person who's uniquely suffering as a part of the centipede, and then you also have an appointed mouthpiece, right, the only person whose mouth is available that is then the head of the chew chew, the head of the the poo poo train, the poopoo. Yeah, he doesn't and the one who eats from the bowl, etcetera. So Dr Hyder starts to prep them for surgery, but Lindsay manages to escape her restraints, but he finds her again and he says he's going to punish her by putting her in the middle of the centipede. I found this sequence to be very compelling. We see Lindsay acting with a lot of um she's taking a lot of initiative, she has a lot of agency. She's fighting for her life and her friend's life, and she's really like going up against the oppressor. I on it, I mean going I had a lot of now I find to be ridiculous negative assumptions going into this. But right at the top, we see you know, like a highly motivated female character being like, you know, what some think about this human centipede just doesn't sound right to me, and I don't want to participate. And she, you know, she she fights, and she also fights for her friend. And I genuinely thought that sequence was very like exciting is not the right word, but I was on the edge of my seat. Sure, thrilling, It's thrilling, And like you said, we see a woman having agency. We see a woman like just taking the information that's been provided to her and thinking critically about it and like thinking about what she should do next, so you know, she's using her brain. It's all pretty I mean in all series, Like everything Lindsay and Jenny do in like the first act of the movie more or less make sense to me, as like tourists who are panicking and we have just been scared by someone who was aggressively hitting on them. It seems like like wanted to assault them. There's only one house. They're like communicating with each other silently as this creepy guy is making them drinks. They're like, it's just like it's I don't know, like there I was, I was like, oh, you know, I'm glad that a Lana six was in the room because I feel like these women, given the horrific circumstances they're being thrown into, like it didn't seem completely like in the way that most horror and like especially like Gore movies, will introduce female characters as like completely irrationally trusting of people. They don't really seem that way. They just are like this is the option, and we're still very freaked out, and like let's see what happens. Yeah, I would, I mean not to criticize this perfect film, but I know I I say this with a lot of caution, But um, well, I see what you're saying, and I think they're characterized maybe a little bit. I don't want to say I don't want to say better. I don't Also, I'm just like, when do we drop the bit? But a bit sorry, I'm so sorry. Um. There were still like choices that they made that I was like, oh, these are female characters written by a male horror writer, like which I had a point to where I got like, oh, this is the line where this has like lost I mean, and that is like a trope of the genre or whatever, But like, what was the choice for you where you're like, I'm no longer like feeling connected to this this character's logic, I mean, just like them getting out of the car. My thing was them leaving the road. I could see them getting out of the car if the car wasn't going to move, but them leaving the main road to me made very little sense. I was just like that, wouldn't you just follow the road back to the town you came from? Ultimately, and then like hope someone passed. Um. The other thing is like, it's not a great idea, but you can drive slowly with one flat tire for some amount of distance. You could turn around, Like you could turn around. That's true. I also don't have a driver's license, so I'm just like, maybe you can't do that, but like it's not great and it's gonna like mess things up a bit in the car probably, But like the fact that they get out of the car and then yeah, go immediately into the woods. Going into the woods, I was just like, on, like, it would make sense to me if they like we're like, oh, I know something is here, but clearly they don't. They have no idea where they were, so they get lost immediately. Yeah. I can't imagine myself, especially in a country I know nothing about and I don't speak the language, and all this stuff like wandering into the woods does seem like begging to die. Um, so in that way, and then even if you can suspend your believe through that, because then I like challenged myself, I'm like, Okay, what if I what if I could get myself to the doctor's house? Right? I Also I find it really I don't know, maybe if you're like truly, I was kind of of two minds of this. I don't think in one as an adult that knows better. I don't think that I would have accepted a glass of water from a total stranger without watching them pour it. Like I feel like there's a world where I could have been, like, I really need water, I've been wandering around the fucking woods for an hour, but let me see you just pour it from the sink, you know, or something like that, because he's just roofying literally everyone who walks in the door. Um. But but I also could see and I don't know how hard our King Tom six is thinking about this. I also feel like when I was younger, which I think that I don't know how out old these characters are supposed to be, like anywhere between nineteen and thirty five, I have no idea. I'm assuming college right early twenties. When I was younger, I can see myself wanting to watch someone prepare my drink and maybe being a little too anxious to ask. And so, but I also am like, how hard is Tom six thinking about this? Probably probably no disrespect to our our king, but very possibly zero percent. But I've had I don't know, have you ever had a moment like that where someone offers you a drink and I immediately always when like a stranger at all, but particularly a stranger who is a man, forers me a drink. I if I want to accept, I need to know that I am watching it be prepared, just because of the experience of knowing better. But I also was an age at one point where I would have been too nervous to advocate for myself up in that way for sure. I mean, yeah, I definitely didn't always insist on watching or it just insist on today I would like, I would just be like, I'll make it myself. Thanks. I would even go so far as to be like, let's make them together. I'll come to the kitchen with you, like so that there's nothing funky going on. And but you know, as as a as a teenager, I can't I you know, I don't know that I would have had the because I truly, at this point in my life don't give a funk. I just want to um live. H But what I would probably do if I was even in like my earlier more naive days or like days of just like not being able to advocate for myself or like speak up or like you know, just be like fuck you, I'm making my own drink or whatever I would say. Now I would I would accept a drink, but just not touch it. I just would not drink it. Yeah, I've done that too. I the the part of that scene that I genuinely felt like, oh, that is definitely kind of a thing that I recognized, like in myself and when I was younger, and like in college of like when the guy is being really weird and then he leaves the room and then immediately you turn to your friend and you're like what is going on? Like that, I was like, oh, I've done that five hundred times. And then the second he walks back in, you're like like nothing to see here. I feel this is so normal for me. Um well. I also don't think I would have gone in the house like and I understand it. It's like it's raining, you know, they probably want to get out of the rain. That's the thing is like I the fact that they added the rain and the night. I think I would have like knocked on the door and asked to use the phone, but then like stayed outside on the stoop and like not actually gone inside the house. And I also wondered. I was like, is there some sort of and again I don't know what I mean. We can't and we can't put ourselves in the mind of a genius artist Tom. We can't really know the mind from which the idea for a Big Brother came is like Tom six thought of Big Brother. So he's just he's just did you know that? I did not? Oh my god. So that is where Tom six Is money comes from. He was an original director on the Dutch reality TV series Big Brother, which apparently was the first incarnation of Big Brother that obviously became an international phenomenon. So he was like into some like some stuff, you know, and some like low key torture, um pre human sense. I'm not seeing that on his IMDb. Oh, it's in the first sentence. He was six was an original director on his it's on his uh Wikipedia's Wikipedia six was an original director of Dutch reality TV series Big Brother, which has since become an international franchise. So that's how he um established himself and got you know, some credibility was by the survey the abuse of surveillance TV show of of a generation. Uh So there you go. I guess this is all to say that, yeah, some choices were made to have the women in the movie behave in a way that I think was pretty indicative that those characters were written by someone who UM does not really understand what it is to be a woman who has to move about the world and the danger we are often in and the amount of on guard we always have to be because a lot of men put us in danger and make us feel unsafe. But I would say I would say that, like, given I mean, and in this genre, there's so many brilliant women who work in the horror genre that UM would have executed this more realistically. But in terms of like horror movies that I'm familiar with, which are mostly like American horror movies that are probably not great and we're released to wide audiences, Lindsay and Jenny navigate the situation more realistically than a lot of whole horror movies I've seen, where they're never just like wandering into a room just to be like what's in here, which I feel like is what we get a lot. So it's a little more grounded UM. And also it's you know, it's a it's a it's a and I mean no disrespect, it's a B horror movie. So it's like certain things just need to happen. But yeah, I'm a but but yeah, So the bar we're comparing this up against is so unbelievably low. Why would you say that? Calen the bit? I mean bit, Well, I'm what I'm saying that this movie rises far above the bar. Like women are acting not completely the way a real woman would, but they're not acting so unlike you would in that situation that you're like, I have no I feel nothing about this, you know, where it's like there were little moments whereas like oh I got that, Oh I got that. Oh I would never do that, but maybe, like maybe someone I know might in some situation do that, you know, Like it didn't feel so off the wall that it was like completely in any case there they end up participating in a human centipede. Yeah, voluntarily, they don't. Well that's the other thing. I'm like, Okay, in in the worst case scenario of the script, what if they're like, pitch this to me and he's like okay, so here's my idea. They're like okay, um, I guess like they do not they do not consent to be a part of the human centipede. That would not be realistic, No one concerns. So so we we've got some realism represented on screen here. It is it's realism. Um okay. So let's see where were we in the recap? So dr hyder okay. So he explains his plan, Lindsay tries to escape. He's like, I'm going to punish you by putting you in the middle. They have a bit of us scuffle. She ends up in his swimming pool. I think he thinks that she has drowned, so he walks away. He clearly does not know what his own swimming pool is like, because she literally just like pushes up that Because I was kind of wondering that when he's like, I'm going to trap you, I'm like, I'm pretty sure those kind of things you just kind of push up a little bit, and then you have breathing room, which is she's fine. Yes. So he goes away and Lindsey takes this opportunity to go back down and try to save Jenny. So she's dragging Jenny, who I think is unconscious, up the stairs, out of the basement, out of the house. But oh. Dr Hyder finds them and shoots Lindsay with a tranquilizer. There's a lot of moments in Human Centipede. Truly, Yes, I mean this again. This movie accomplishes many things. Feminism, oh moments. Um it is. It's a very it's an effective horror movie. It makes you feel horrified. Yes, yeah, yes so um so. Then he performs the surgery, making them into a human centipede with Cutsuro in the front, Lindsay in the middle, and Jenny in the back. Lindsay in the middle as punishment for trying to escape, right, and Dr Hyder loves his creation. It's his little pet. He makes them walk around the yard. He take picks, he takes pictures the kennel. There's a kennel. He makes Cut Sorrow eat out of a dog food dish. It's all very fucked up. It's extremely fucked up. And then eventually Cuts Sorrow goes poo poo into Lindsay's mouth, which then you have to imagine the trickle down effect does go. It's like economics. It's like that economics thing that never works, but in the driggle down system may not work in the American economy, but in the human centipede it is extremely effective. Um, and so it does it does all. Well, that's a question I had because again this movie, if if if a woman poo poos into the mouth of another woman, it passes the Picktel tests, especially if they're holding hands because they're freshly exactly. But I don't know if that ever ends up happening in this movie, because at one point Dr Hyder is doing a check up on all of them and he's like, cut Sero, you're you look great, You're you're healthy. Is a human centipede To Lindsay, he says, you're constipated. She doesn't want to poop in her friend's mouth. She doesn't. Yeah, she's like holding it in like this. I don't know this woman, so I guess she'll understand. I don't know. I mean like, I'm not going to run it cuts from cut Sero's perspective. He's like, I'm not going to run into her. I don't know her. Whereas Lindsay and Jenny, if Lindsay poop who is into Jenny's mouth, they have to drive home together, Whereas cut Sero is like, I can just go, you know, you have no idea where where I'm going. So it's not a big deal. It is kind of like a one night stand thing versus a long term relationship. Sure, exactly. Yeah. Also worth mentioning that cut Serro does not speak English, um, he speaks Japanese, so he is unable to communicate with both the Doctor Hyder or the two women. And also like it's another way in which Dr Hyder kind of has the upper hand because it seems like when he does not want the women to know what's going on, he speaks in German, and when he does want the women to know what's going on, he speaks in English in a way that they can understand him. But Catsro is kind of like uniquely isolated in this way. Yeah, yeah, and so yeah, the check up happens, and then Jenny seems to be very ill. She she's not taking well to the human so ton apede. Well, she's starving operation no one's giving her poop poo, She's starving. She her her mouth's incisions are infected. Uh, and it seems like she's dying. Then two detectives show up to Dr Hyder's house and asks if he knows anything about some people who have gone missing. Then my favorite moment in the movie where they see the humans Hanne Kennel and the detective I think we're supposedly that is the smarter detective in that he is not the detective who immediately becomes roofied. He is like, so what is this for? It's so funny to me when he looks at the humans that to be the cage and it's like, are you sure you don't know anything about these people who have gone? Meanwhile, Dr Hyder is acting, he's acting out, he really is yelling. He's really banking on them being roofied soon based on his behavior, right. Um. Dr Hyder then goes back down to the basement and he's like, okay, new plan. Jenny's about to die, so she'll get removed from the human centipede, but I'm going to add two more people, these detectives who are upstairs. But before that happens, the detectives leave because they need to go. They said this is another thing that I was like, Oh, this is genuinely like sort of a funny trace where they're like, we really want to inspect the house and he's like, well, you're gonna have to get a search warrant and they're like, Okay, we'll be back in twenty minutes. And in the twenty minutes things really go off the rails inside the Human Centipete house truly, because Cut zero, Lindsay and Jenny use this as a distraction to attack the doctor and kind of incapacitate him. Cut Soro really like he I think gives him like too brutal, like debilitating wounds. Yes. And then so they're using this opportunity to try to escape, but the doctors like right, he's you know, dragging himself right behind them, and it seems like they're trapped and they have no way out. So cut zero kills himself, not before making uh Shakespearean monologue where we'll talk about this, but like cutzero, we know we I mean, it's another I feel like we've done a lot of these movies recently where you know nothing really about any of the character is in terms of other than like who knows each other and who doesn't. I think you, I would argue you most you know most about the doctor at this point, because you really don't know anything about the girls other than their American and friends, and you know nothing about kut Serro other than he has been plucked, you know, out of his car. And then he like gives this this like soliloquy at the end where he's like, I've lived a sinful life. I have lived selfishly. I abandoned my child. And you're like, cat Sero, what is going on? And then and then he's dead, and it's just like you learn everything you're ever going to learn about this character at the like three seconds before he does, and it's like, right, what that was, we'll talk about it. But I was like, oh my god, cat Sero, and no one can understand what he is doing. I mean we can as an audience because we are given the subtitles. We're given the subtitles, but it's like the centipee nor the doctor can understand this like very tragic thing he's just told us. It made me sad. Yeah, everyone in the human centipede deserved better, I'll say it. I'd even go so far as to say they didn't deserve to be made into a human centipede. But that's just me, I just me, I agree. And something that made me really particularly sad about Catzera's speeches that he didn't seem to feel that way he seemed to feel like, well, because of all this ship that I've done in my life that is bad, and I have like done these things that were that I feel a lot of guilt about. I guess this is my come uppance. I guess I just had. And he's like, I'm but and I love genuinely. I was moved when he said, but I am still a human being, and you're like, yeah, there's nothing you can do that would be so bad, so us to deserve being a human centipede? Really, I mean, certainly not what he's describing. He's it sounds like he's certainly made big mistakes in his life regrets, but not a human centipede, greed, sin. It's just it was I was moved by that speech. Oh my god, same heavy indeed. Um. So the movie is almost over. The detectives come back and they discover the human centipede. They are there, they don't know what they this is out of their pay grade. Then there's like a scuffle between them and Dr Hyder where they both the detectives and Dr Hyder are shot and killed or killed in some way, and then Jenny dies. So Lindsay is in the middle still alive, but with two dead people on either side of her, and she's like sobbing and there's no one to help, and she's her life has been. She's in a human centipede. And that is how all the movie ends. I mean, it's it's safe to say that she's fucked. You know, she's more or less fucked, is is what you could really say about her situation. Let I was shocked that that's where it ends. I guess, let's take a break. Let's take a break. We'll come right back and we're back. Yes, all right, well, um we I mean during the recap we talked a fair amount about the relationship between the two female characters in this movie. You know, I don't think it's a perfectly written relationship. I think that it is in terms of, like, if we're going this genre specifically, it's not the word. And I felt like, I don't know, most of my feelings about this movie get into like the themes surrounding the doctor. Yeah, so I don't know. I guess, let's do you have any other kind of observations about how the women in this movie are treated outside of becoming a human centipede? Of course? Right? Um? As far as like character development goes, Yeah, I just don't think a lot of time is spent characterizing them. In fact, I don't even know if I could. I could not tell the difference between the two women for a long time. I knew curly hair, straight hair, That's what I knew. And I also I it felt like kind of early you found out like, oh, Linda is our final girl, because she is the one making an active effort to escape, which I genuinely do appreciate in this genre because sometimes it's just like nope, like everyone here just doesn't have like any sort of judgment skills, and they'll do anything, and they're not going to try to escape, and they're going to be very passive, and Lindsay is kind of immediately established as the person who will be active. I feel like it would have been maybe cooler to see them both participating in this effort. But Jenny is like unconscious for most of the time, like most of Act two and three, it seems like she was like drugged maybe harder, Like it seems like like the drugs like affected her maybe more than it did Lindsay. That's what it seemed like, because she's like knocked out a lot. I don't know, I appreciated their friendship. I was like, like at the end when Jenny died, I don't know why I didn't see it coming, but when Jenny died, and because there is kind of this like repeated shot of like when things are the most fucked up with the Human Centipede, Jenny and Lindsay will hold each other's hands as if to say, Wow, this is really fucked up, that's what. But it was like, I really thought that that was like a nice touch to connect these characters because they're the only characters in these scenes that know each other and have any history together, and like having god having a female friendship at the center of the Human Centipede. I just I thought it was nice that they that you kind of got that repeated connection between them just to even remind the audience like, oh, yeah, these women like really know and love each other and what's happening to them. And so so by the time that Jenny died at the end, I genuinely did feel like really like I don't know, given what, and we'll talk about kind of the behind the scenes stuff, but I thought that the actors in this movie given truly impossible material did pretty well of like communicating their arc. And I think that like Jenny and Lindsay had like clearly commu indicated what their arc was as friends and human centipies. I think that cut Serro like given truly nothing until the end, Like you just, I thought that the actors in this movie did that really made a meal of of the poop poo, because because I was genuinely like like that that whole scene at the end where cutzero is like gives his like parting monologue and you're like what and then he and then and then immediately after Jenny dies and the doctor, which we'll talk about him, but he's like the scariest villain of all time, and like you did feel like I don't know, I guess that my only my not my only note. But like Lindsay and Jenny sort of seemed to be on like they weren't on really separate arcs. They were kind of a unique character like you were describing, And I kind of wish that you got more from the two because there was space for that. Yeah, I think their characters could have been like differentiated a bit more. I couldn't really get a sense of a distinct personality from either of them, or they just sort of seemed to be kind of like two characters with the same personality, which was barely developed in the first place. It seemed to kind of come down to like and and in a way that I could really distinguish particularly but like Lindsay is the strong one for some reason, and Jenny is the weak one for some reason. But if you were asked to decide who was who in the establishing scene, it would be basically impossible. You're like, they're kind of acting exactly the same. Why would one behave one way or over the other. So yeah, I think they do kind of form this unique character. They also are the ones the only ones that have to eat poop um, so there is that the way only women eat poop and human centipede one. And I mean, I mean, just thinking about the behind the scenes production, like these actors on this set, it also means that this this writer wrote a movie where two women actors have to have their faces in someone's ass and their topless. Also the entire movie. Yes, uh huh, So let's talk a little bit because we I know we both read this. There was I I feel like every like camp or like niche movie we covered, there is some sort of extremely useful oral history that's been done. And I love this trend. I hope it keeps up. This one is from Vulture was put together by Kenny hurt zog Um. We're going to be pulling from the first one because I was like, I just cannot interact with other movies in this series. But but there is a lot like with a movie like this, particularly where you're like, this is the most fucked up thing you could Like, this is truly Tom six saying what's the most fucked up thing I could think of? And then I'll make a movie of it. And I feel like when you are doing that, it is is like a responsibility of the creator to be very careful and be very deliberate with how you're treating your cast and your crew who you are, you know, like paying to execute your vision. But you have to treat people honestly and in good faith. And so I went into this thing being like, I hope that Tom six was very upfront about like this is what this is. If it's really foxed up and you don't want to do it, that's totally fine, don't do it. But this is what it is. It does not sound like that is the way that it went. But first I wanted to just mention as just kind of a way of discussing, Like I do think that there is a point to the first human centipede. It sounds like there's not to the other ones. But like the way that Tom six described his conceiving of the worst thing everyone now knows for some reason, like from one man's mind, everyone's nightmare forever was that it sounds like it came from two places. And I have a longer but like, let's talk about the protection. But he started, he started by saying, like, you know, what is the worst I mean, it seems like he was what's the worst crime I could think of? And how would I punish it? And so what he thought of was child sex abuse and what is the worst way to punish a child sex abuser? Something akin to a human centipede? And so that is kind of where this idea comes from. And then it seems like, and I have other stuff here too, but like it seems like where he goes is building out this like Nazi doctor character and kind of taking it in this different historical direction to create this uniquely cruel punishment. But the difference with the human centipede is that the people who are forced to be a human centipede are not child sex abusers. They're just people who this doctor perceives to be vulnerable. So and on top of that, I read the writer, director Tom six, saw some television program about like a child sex abuser and was like, Oh, what's the worst possible punishment for them? I know, stitching his mouth to the anus of a quote fat truck driver. So it's already like extremely insensitive things to do. And I didn't even want to repeat that because I'm like, fine, well, I don't want to give that air. Like I understand the idea he's communicating, but I found it interesting that he took that idea but then applied it to innocent people, Like it sounds like it was conceived as like, what's the worst punishment for the worst crime you can think of? And then was like, but then the way his script works out, it's three not just innocent people, but three marginalized and uniquely vulnerable people in this situation. Um, and he's like putting language barriers in front of people, and you know, through doctor, what's his name doctor scary. You know, like he is like this wealthy white guy who intentionally victimizes two women and a Japanese man who he holds a lot of power over, whether it's a control, and how he speaks to them and how he treats them physically, and it just seems like he's intentionally choosing people that he perceives to be as weaker than him. And even if you you know, apply that lotgic to the trucker from the beginning, who's another white guy, but a white guy who who doesn't have money, and uh it comes from a lower class, and it's like he, you know, the doctor is very intentionally choosing people that he used to be whatever I mean, like weaker than him or I felt like that was like an intentional choice writing wise, Yeah, and then, like you mentioned, the rector was trying to draw a parallel between like the events of this movie and then like medical experiments that were being carried out by Nazi doctors in Nazi Germany, and like that's where part of the inspiration of this movie came from. Where he's like drawing this parallel and I guess like attempting to comment on like Nazism and fascism. Yeah, I mean I can speak to that a little bit. That's as close as I could get to feeling like this movie was trying to say something. You know, it's like, does it make the point very effectively? Almost definitely not. But but in terms of like creating, so it's like his two intentions are definitely in conflict because his first thing was what we just talked about, where it was like, you know, if there were no rules, how would you punish the most vile crime you can think of? And he doesn't do that in this Instead he goes this other direction of like creating this I mean, I think very clearly coded Nazi doctor. He's they're literally in Germany and you're brought into this man's house, and like it's not a sensitive portrayal of anything, but there is I mean in terms of like reflecting any sort of realism. It's like, I don't even want to go too deep into it, but there there, of course is a very traceable and underreported and not taught in mainstream education history of medical experimentation on marginalized people's and so this particular doctor is commenting it seems to be like on Nazi doctors, and there were a ton of Jewish people who were medically experimented on without their consent, against their will. Some were murdered as a result. And this is an extremely I mean at this point, well document did, but not commonly discussed thing. And there's a great book about it that we can link in the description called the Nazi Doctor's Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide. That there's many you know, there's many commonly held medical practices today that were achieved because of these really brutal and murderous doctors from from the twentieth century. And it also applies to um black Americans very often. There's this there's the Tuskegee um syphilis experiment that we can also link to. It's I mean, really and and then there's of course the issue of I think that it's intentional that women are here um in in this uh in this human centipede. Uh not just because they're this is so common to the genre of victimizing women, but also because medical experimentation also targe like very often targets women without their consent. And I think that it's this is like the furthest thing from the human centipede, but I was reminded of the story of Henrietta Lacks. There was like a movie about it a couple of years ago that obrah wasn't But m Henrietta Lacks was a um someone who eventually died of cancer, whose cancer cells were studied without her consent to create uh you know, just strides forward in the field that have saved millions of life since. But this was a black woman who's you know, a part of her body was taken from her without her consent, and her family was never compensated. She was never asked, And this is like a serious issue in the medical community, and it's like, you know, we're we're not the best qualified people to talk about it, but it is like a very real thing that's going on. Does the human said depeede? No, No, But I I did find it at least I guess that. I I'm like working with a with a yardstick of like more than I expected. UM like that it even attempts to kind of touch on something like this, because I honestly went into this movie thinking like they just want to do the grossest thing they can think of and make me watch it, which is what they do as well. But but there was also like at least some level of cognizance in terms of how the characters were curated. I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying it's more intentional than I thought it would be. Yes, I can't argue with that, but it's again it's a matter of like intention versus what actually ends up happening on screen. Like, well, I feel like it's I do think that, Like I don't know that the human centipedes trying to say anything. It's like it's referencing more than I thought it was. Sure, sure, sure, because ultimately I don't know that Tom six is like there is some grand takeaway you should be unless he's really just like off in this other zone. I don't even recognize, Like I don't know that he's being like and you're going to take away this huge it's really going to make you think. But he's just like referencing more things than I I thought he was just gonna be like mouths a butt, it's going to be ninety minutes, you're gonna watch it or you're not going to, which is true to an extent, But like he's he is referencing some stuff that I was like, I mean, it's not saying anything, but it is referencing things where I don't know what the intention is here. I mean honestly, like, it doesn't it's it's it's interest. Interesting is a very generous way to describe it. But like in this oral history, I feel like it seems like Tom Sticks was being asked what his intention is over and over and over and he is not really able to answer the question. He's able to like list things he was thinking about, and he's able to things that he's referencing, but he's not really able to tell you, like this is the point. I think the point is it's fucking gross. Like yeah, ultimately, I think that is the point. I don't know. Yes, um, I want to talk a little bit about like the production of it. Yes, Yeah, let's go, let's go through that a little more because this, um, there's a lot to to chew on with this oral history. Yeah, so because it seems like it was presented very disingenuously to the actors and the production in general. Yeah, I did read I think this is mentioned in the oral history that um, because I'm pulling information from both of that and UM our favorite scholarly journal Wikipedia. UM. But like a lot of actors who came in to read for the roles of like Lindsay or Jenny or cuts, We're like, this is what this movie is. Fuck no, and then they like stormed out of the audition kind of things. So there was some transparency, But like, I do think that it seems like it is like kind of bizarre to me that you could get all the way into the like that's I guess something that It's like, I don't know that I've ever Maybe this isn't totally true, but I don't know that I've ever gone into an audition room for something that is like that much with having no idea until I'm already in the room with the director. You know, Like that even seems kind of like sketchy. Um that you could get all the way into an audition before realizing what a human centipede is. You know, they should be more upfront about Yeah, I did read that. Um. Before the actors signed onto the project, they were given an outline of the script or an outline of the storyboard, rather than a full script, so they didn't fully know exactly what like specific scenes they were going to have to be doing out that they were given sketches of how this centipede would look, so they at least know, well, that's not not that part. My favorite cursed quote from from this was Ashlyn Jenny, who played Jenny. The way that her manager framed it to her when she was asked to audition was hey, would you like to audition for this controversial European film. I'm like, oh my god, could you like frame the human centipede in a less honest way than I mean, it is technically a controversial European film, but that's not what I think of, no, when I think of yeah. And then I was also curious because I was like, how safe were these actors? How much discomfort were they in on like physically, emotionally, mentally, you know, I just I had to feel. I was just like, I was so worried that I would learn the condition on set were like really unpleasant and toxic, and to some degree they were. And regarding Dieter later Dieter Laser Mr laser Um, I mean, he sounds like when he was in method zone he was like full Tom Hardy as Matt mac full, like like any man doing method. It sounds like he was behaving and as scary and kind of like in that same way where it's like, oh, well, he's an artist, so he's allowed to treat you like ship while you're at work, like that ship that we've talked about a million times that we like fucking hate. Yeah. Yeah, he was screaming at the other actors. He was like refusing to talk to them like between takes to like preserve the level you know, the whatever. Who even knows, But um, yeah, so he was being a real piece of ship on set. It seems like the human Centipede itself, the three were, um, there was some solidarity within the Centipede. Yeah, and I where and that they were given like massages at the end of the of each shooting day because of like the uncomfortable positions they had to maintain, and there were robes. There was like some because that was honestly, like I was just like, oh, is there are they being given for such an obviously uncomfortable position for an actor to have to be in? Were they given the correct amount of like you know, layers between each other and like was there there was some of that? It seems like yeah, ultimately it's so low budget that. I'm like, I just find it hard to believe that it was totally above board. And there's also a few creepy quotes in there where the actor who played cats Sero said something kind of creepy in the in the Oral History where he's like, I did a skype audition and Tom was like, just to let you know, these two beautiful girls's face are going to be attached to your ass. I was like, you're a genius, and it's like, well, that's not the best vibe to be like that doesn't make me feel particularly good about the conditions that these these women were brought into. Uh, we weren't there. Here's something we're bravely gonna admit we weren't on the set of The Human Centipede. Um. I don't know. I guess it's like falls into this gray area where it's like it doesn't seem like it was completely I most most of where I felt like uncomfortable was the pre production stuff from like, you have to be super fucking straightforward about what you're signing people up for, Tom six, you can't be like coy about the Human Centipede, which he was very coy about it to at least to some degree that the cast as well as financiers. Um, did you read this story? I don't care about that. That's kind of funny, but that's just funny. Where he was just like, yeah, it's about a surgeon who conjoins people, but he left out the part where it was like a mouth to anus. Just didn't say where I feel like that in the on the financier part, that's hilarious, but on the actor part, it's really on though, Like if you want to build trust with people and you want them to not like sue the ship out of you lately like later on, then you know you've you've got to be It bothered me that it sounds like he would be he was being a little coy about that, because it's like, well, what do you stand to gain other than this like weird power upper hand over these relatively I mean like actors that had experience, but we're not famous and you would imagine not famous enough to have more power than him, essentially, Like it just made me uncomfortable. Yeah, I don't think that Tom six is a very I mean, he is quoted as saying that he gets quote a rash from too much political correctives. So he's not a woke guy. I mean, the human fucking centipede, Like he is not not awoke guy. I mean, I'm just like, okay, even if you're not politically aligned with me, like you have to treat your actors ethically, you know, like that is there is a very low bar you need to clear, and it just didn't seem like at least it seems like at least once the movie was in production, that there was some care taken um, but in pre production, and also it's just I don't know. I never I never know what to think because it's like so often when actors say like, oh, I'm fine, it's just because they want to just they just wanted to be over um and not because they're actually fine, but they're like, well, I don't want to prolong the problem, like I don't want to prolong this by saying I'm uncomfortable. I mean, especially you know women or actors of color, like who don't want to which the whole human centipede is right, and they don't want to appear difficult because you know, if they get a reputation, they won't get cast in things, so they have to just kind of tolerate whatever abuse it dealt to them on set. So I meanwhile, the the you know, the main white guys going method and screaming at everybody, and so it's like there is a clear differentiation of power, yes the set. I also just want to be clear. I mean in terms of like the medical experimentation and Nazi doctor stuff, there's just like our show is not equipped to fully unpack all of that. I tried to acknowledge that I think that that's what's being referenced here, which is not. It just wasn't my understanding of what this movie was that I didn't even think it was going to attempt to reference anything. And the way that it does, I mean it's like, ultimately this movie doesn't accomplish anything. But I don't think that anyone was like shocked by that. I don't know. I found there was a fun friend of the cast, Karina Longworth quote in that that I wanted to share just because like she she was I think this was like pre podcast and she was a full time film reviewer at this time. But what she said was the reaction I had of wanting to throw up is a visceral thing, and the movie showed a certain kind of skill in getting that reaction out of me for what it was. The Human Centipede was perfect. And it's like, I feel like that's like the true theme of the Human Centipede is that it's fucking the grossest thing that anyone has ever thought of in their entire life. But the but there, but the but but within that, they are like putting some historical context and they are putting two women women and an Asian man in the Human Centipede exclusively, and there is like I don't I mean, it's like it doesn't really matter if Tom six doesn't want to talk about the politics of what he's doing. What he's doing, his his choices are intentional here, you know. Yeah. Um, just a little bit about the inclusion of the character of cut Serro, who is played by a Hiro Kitamura, who's been in a bunch of like a bunch of I was going through his filmography and like, this actor has been in a lot of wild movies. Um, what I was reading about that character is basically cut Serro was included simply to create a language barrier between him and like the two women and also the doctor. So basically you get an inclusion of an Asian character. But it's only for that reason, which again is not the inclusion that where hoping for in film. Well absolutely no, absolutely not like the like no question mark either. It absolutely isn't. And I mean it takes longer, I guess than I expected in The Human Sent to Be for someone to die. But the first person who dies is the only non white person in the cast is the first person to die. Um, everyone, you know, it's it's kind of a Rohan Dominoes. But I feel like that that keeps with that classic horror trope of a white person is never the first person to die in a horror movie or in a thriller gore movie like this, and the Humans Sent to Be kind of upholds that. I mean, unless you're you're including the truck driver who was killed first. I guess I guess I meant, like, of the cast that we know, I don't I don't even know what the truck driver's name was. Um, but yeah, I mean I think that it's I would be curious. I guess I'm like, I don't know if I really want to know what anyone who was in the Human Centipede what's on their mind right now? Maybe not, but but you know, I I think that it's I think it just shows like, uh that that seems like a Tom six problem of like just so like, oh, well, I need to introduce an obstacle and what is the way I can do this? And it's just so do you know what I mean? Like, it's just so like white guy brain to be like, oh this would be oh, this is perfect because it's it's it's not like intentional inclusion in any way, shape or form. And it seems like he's choosing people that the doctor would feel comfortable victimizing too, which introduces this whole other layer of fucked up inness, right and then and again I'm I'm pulling from Wikipedia here, but hit it. It's says cut Cerro's position in the Centipede being like the first one sets up the opportunity for the doctor and the male victim of the centipede to fight towards the climax of the film end quote, which reads to me like Tom six couldn't envision a scenario in which a woman would fight a man. Okay, I thought that was an interesting choice to that Catzerro is at the front of that, Like, I guess I saw that going to directions, and I always I'm kind of assuming that Tom Sex is going in the less well thought out direction, which is that yeah, like he's just like, oh, well, I want a woman at the front. She'll just be yelling and screaming all day like, and which is It's it's frustrating because it's like Lindsay, you know, we've been introduced to Lindsia' is like, oh, this is the you know, this is our female character that we're kind of like rooting for. It seems like she kind of has the smart and the ability and you know, like know how to get out of this situation. But then she is punished, and then after she's punished, she kind of disappears like there's not really anything she does after that that is like, oh, there's that scrappy Lindsay. We knew from the beginning who got out of the situation, and it seems I mean, I guess it's like if this were a real life situation, maybe, but it's like, in terms of plot, it doesn't even really make a ton of sense to me that you would establish this kind of like this female character with agency, have her be punished and then have kind of nothing happened after that. It seems like a there was so much set up that like a lot of the setup I didn't even dislike that. I was like, oh, okay, but then she doesn't do anything. For there's the movie she's stuck in the middle of, which is like, realistically, I guess probably what would happen, But in terms of like a three X structure, it's like I was assuming someone was gonna unso themselves, or like something was going to happen been, or like they would find a way to like communicate with Kutzero, or like there was just the I guess it's like foolish of me to be like the human said to be was so disempowered. But like, but I just thought, because you are, like the doctor is so intentionally creating this so that they can't possibly communicate with each other, because it does seem like that's the other That was the thing that I was like, Oh, maybe he's trying to do that by introducing the only person who can speak no one can understand what they're saying because like Katzero is the only person in the room who speaks Japanese, and I'm like, maybe that was his but like I don't even really want to give Tom six that much credit. I just like, I just wish that the human said to be had been able to communicate or like there had been some sort of moment other than because I mean, and and it was exciting to see katzero stab the doctor and ship like that. Like that was and he is our only non white character in the entire fucking movies. So I'm like, I'm glad that he had those moments of agency and like taking charge of the situation, But I would have rather have seen that with them like working together, you know, or like connecting, because it's so it makes it even more upsetting when cuts Cerro makes this like tragic speech at the end that no one can understand and just no one ever gets to know him, and then he does like it's show that what are you trying to say with that? Tom Sex said so fucking depressing? It's like, yeah, like, I mean, and I just don't believe that Tom six is actually trying to say anything with that. I think he's just like, well, he's at the front of the human see what do you want? Like, but yeah, I mean, he's written a script and made a movie where the protagonists, who is a woman loses all of her agency half at the midpoint of the movie and then doesn't she's not even the protagonist by the end, Right, who is the protective Like, is there one like it? The doc is right, the doctor? I mean, the movie starts to focus so much on the doctor, especially post surgery, because that's what happens when you sew people's mouths to other people's anuses. They can't talk anymore too much. Like then the movie focuses on the doctor and kind of like what he's up to It not that we're rooting for him, but like it's such a weird writing choice. It is. Yeah, Like I feel like it does get into the like factor of and I don't want to like let Tom sis off the hook in anyway here because he's making a lot of racist and misogynist choices in kind of like like he's referencing this clear racism and misogyny that this doctor has, but he's not really like it's not going anywhere, So it's kind of right, he's just racism and misogyny that's happening on screen that isn't going anywhere. But like I just kept waiting for like well, Lindsay's got like Lindsay's going to find a pen, you know, like someone's going to find a way of communicating with somebody they're going to be able to. Like it's just I don't know, I feel like I'm trying to think of like another movie example where this happens. But it's like characters with language barriers find ways to communicate with each other in other movies and in life, you know. And it's like I just thought that that was going to happen at some point, Like I thought that it was like, Okay, so we have this like pretty sizeable language barrier between these characters. That's why it's going to be all the more like Wow, when they managed the bigger obstacle to write and then they're going to manage to overcome it, and the doctor is going to be shocked and like it's going to be really exciting. But then they just they just don't and they just stay a human centipiece. And Jenny. I mean, it's like, if you think Lindsay disappears, where does Jenny go, Like she just is dying the entire your movie. She's just dying. Now that we fully dropped the bit um it's such a It is a bummer because it's like because he said it is, because it's like we're given, you know, three characters that it could possibly it would still be disgusting, but like it would be interesting if they found a way to communicate with each other and like make a plan instead of just like a lot of movie passing and then katzero being like, um, so we should get out of here right like, because that's kind of all that happened, and it makes sense that he would, you know, want to get out of there. But it's just like the entire caboose is just really disempowered in that good So glad we're talking about this. Yeah, so I guess now that now that we have dropped the bit um a little peek behind the curtain, this was, Um, I thought it would be a very very funny April Fools joke if we cover I thought we should do the Snyder cut, but that's four hours long, so this is actually the lesser of many evils that we pitched. So um, yeah, happy April Fool, Stay everybody. Yeah, let's wrap this up. I need to go, Doe, I need to go absolutely die. Um was there other stuff that kind of stuck out to you. I don't think so. Yeah, I think that this movie references one or two interesting points, but it doesn't make a point about any of them. It just kind of like if you did have a pre existing knowledge of deeply cruel medical experiments, maybe your brain would be pained at a few points in this movie of like, oh, I think that that's what they're referencing there, but it's not going anywhere, and so you are just kind of seeing the cruelest possible punishment inflicted onto three innocent people I just to meet. The saddest part of the movie is when we learn I mean, we end up kind of by the end of the movie learning more about cutzero than we know about the I mean, at least Lindsay and Jenny, because he just kind of like tells his life story in his dying breath and but his whole like I've done all this fucked up stuff, but human Centipede, really it just seems like a bit much. And then he dies and you're just like, oh my god, I feel the same way. I mean, it's like implying that he might deserve it. I'm like cut Thoro, there's just like no way that you deserve. You were just on vacation. Yeah. The best horror movies, at least for me, are ones that are like clearly allegorical or have some kind of social commentary or something. In this movie is just devoid of that. I think it's like starts in an interesting place and then and then takes the hard left into just simply being the human centipede. Um, which is a shame because it would I mean, like theoretically, it would be pretty fucking incredible if a like really skilled writer was able to turn this disgusting thing into an interesting conversation. Um, but it's kind of a nonstarter to talk about here because that's just like kind of not what happened. So, um, I give it six nipples, and it does pass the Bactel test, not even lying. Absolutely. Yeah, um, I give it six centipede legs, which is the equivalent of zero nipples. Wait, you're I thought we were No, We're gonna give okay six sorry, six nipples. I can't believe you bailed. I can't believe you bailed on me like that. You know what that's gonna look like on the Wikipedia chaos. Yeah, but I can't have I cannot in good conscious have one of our highest rated movies be The Human Centipede. That's so funny, that's so funny. I want I want history to look back on this show and then and then, because all that means is they have to go back and listen to this episode and look at the date of release and be like, oh my gosh, I'm giving it. Okay, I guess like I give it six nipples parentheses as a little joke. Okay, And I don't want to give a real rating because I don't want to think about this movie for another second. Okay, Um, ditto, I'll do the same thing. Whoever is editing the Wikipedia page, make sure to say parent disease as a little joke, and then we're good to go. Well, I guess that's it for the Human Centipede episode. Oh yeah, I mean I guess. In terms of behind the scenes, it was literally all Tom six and occasionally his sister. So you know, there was a woman at the top of production, but she was from a cursed bloodline. She was from Tom's Tom six sister. Um, so we hope you enjoyed this. Yeah, you're welcome everyone. You know, I know that this is a really that there was a high demand for this and people and and hey, if you want an episode on the Snyder Cut. Um, you know, I was. I thought that was funny until I found out it was four hours long? Is it really four hours long? It's literally four hours like jokes, four hours long, and it's supposed to be like just as bad but in a totally different way. Okay, So, um, you know this is what you get. Okay, April fool, gotcha he he joke, joke. We're still inside, so everything's great. And we hope you're well. We hope you're safe, and we hope you're making good choices and um and we and we love you, We love you so much. And aper fools fell on a Thursday. You left us with no choice. We had to, we had to, and you know the usual stuff social media, our Matreon, give us, you know, give us six nipples on iTunes or Apple podcasts or whatever. Honestly, if you've made it to the end of this episode, it would mean so much to simply give us, uh five stars on iTunes. It always helps because occasionally we get a wave of m R A s and it and it's stressful. Yeah, please, So please dilute their low ratings by giving us five nipples. And um we'll be back with more soon. More to come, all right, um bye bye bye