TGI-Episode 104 ("Cory's Alternative Friends")

00:00:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Meets World. I am Daniel Fisher, I'm will Fredell, and I'm right or Strong and we are joined today to talk about episode number one oh four, Corey's Alternative Friends, which is the very first episode where Tapanga appears. And uh, we are thrilled to have David here. Let's jump into my first episode. I've I've now watched three episodes, We've done three recap episodes that I haven't been in, and so um we get to do one with you. Yes, I'm sorry, I've I said this to you before, before we even started this. I don't think writer would disagree with me. I think if you put up a list of the most important Boy meets World episodes, this has to be at or near the top of every list. They think it's the top. I think it's the number one most important episode. What was so funny about watching it overall was how um monumental this episode is in my mind as an experience, but actually how kind of slight it is, like, especially my involvement, Like I thought I was a huge part. I was, but but what and that that's because of the experience of doing it. This was the episode where I became a part of the show. And I think this is the episode where I learned how to be in a sitcom and what you know, how to get laughs and we can talk about like I specifically remember the moments we can talk about, but also I remember watching the show on tape night and seeing the reaction to the Topanga Corey relationship and realizing, Oh, this is the show, like this is what is going to drive um Boy meets World forward for me and and and so yeah, and watching it, I was just like, oh, yeah, this it's still it's all there that you know, Corey always needed a romantic foil right or another character to bounce this off of. And it's like, you couldn't you couldn't get a better person than Danielle playing to Panga. It's just magic. And there was more of the family dynamic and we see in the family is in the family House. The audience was interactive for the first time ever. I mean this, this show, this episode hits so many different notes that just I think change the whole ball game for the series. I really do. David as the director of this episode, do you remember the tape night? No? No, I remember I remember tape nights in the early going as raucous. Yeah, and raucous for all reasons, like an audience is that it's a new cast, yes, so as as cast original cast members. You suddenly had the people who haven't hearst And and also I remember for Bill Daniels a wonderful I mean, yeah, however much we love Bob Young and David Kendall. Yes, you guys really special, um he he. I think it was very weird to him changes, you know, michaelould change things, and it was it was a whole. It was like a Hell's It was great. So that's what I remember, And I can't imagine that the fourth episode was any different. So it was actually even the more so, like Will said, this is the first time we've heard you know, Erica has that line about getting the good hair and the girls win. That's the first time that happened. Uh. And then there's a Beavis and butt Head reference, which and the audience clapped and screamed for Beavis and butt Head. So if anything, it had they had just started to get you know, noisy. Yeah. I also I wanted to put this up at the top of the episode. You know how much of a television fan I am especially old sitcom. I love it so much. And I went back and I did some research about and this again shows how our show is constantly overlooked about characters that either started as secondary characters or were brought on later in the later in a series that changed the entire dynamic. And we're talking Clinger from Mash, Fonzie from Happy Days, Merkel from Family Matters, Woody on Cheers, Andy in the Office, and not on. Not a single list is two Panga mentioned, but it was it was episode full Well here's but again, Fonzie was on from the pilot, so you know these are the Clinger was on from the pilot. They had smaller roles, but were then brought on as as regulars on the show. That then changed the dynamic of the show. And it's one of those things where your husband and I were talking about this, Danielle. Everybody when they go back and they think of Boy Meets World, I think they remember to Panga being on the whole show, right, People are shocked from like, oh, I don't think I was in that episode. So that's one of the things. It's it's you've become so so in grain with the show that the idea that you started four episodes you weren't on there where any of those names you listed women? Interesting? Is there? No? Witten? Apparently the really changed on the show. The internet is concerned. And again I went strictly sitcom. If you went to UM shows like Lost and things, there are a lot of women on okay, right um, But I was going strictly old school sitcom. But yes, that's they were all men, now that you mentioned it, Yes they were alright, And to Pango was not on a single list, and I found that to be pretty interesting. Frankly, you might have to just doing this. Is Kirstie Elliott Cheers, Yeah, there's ae. We're just looking to find a woman, yes, And and she wasn't listed on any of this was not Woody Harrelson was for the same show on Cheers, but Kirstie ally was not very interestingly enough, So there you go. David, what was it like directing Bill Daniels, because we all remember, you know, first of all his kids, he was very intimidating. He was the consummate professional. I remember him being nervous that he was going to forget his lines and and him just pouring over his script and like you said it was probably very confusing to him to in the middle of the middle of a scene for Michael to come out and take a pencil and cross out the entire page and then rewrite new lines for everybody. When he was such a pro he didn't want to forget any lines. So what was what was that relationship like directing Bill Daniels. Well, because I came from the theater I had and Built came from the theater, there was a sort of distant foundation. Uh. You know, the thing that's great about Bill is he's in Boy Mets World, he's in the Grant, he's on broad he's in He's always the same fine act. He doesn't change the way he does what he does for the media. He does what he does and the medium embraces it, has to accommodate it. He So, so I think what Bill was I hope I was trying to do with Bill, but I think Bill was monumentally gifted guy. I think he was doing for himself was figuring out how to be built in in in this on different Uh. And obviously he got it very quickly and you can see it. And when we watched this episode of In the Classroom, scenes were the sort of dry under I mean, that's perfect classic Bill, and I don't mean it's like rot. I mean he's just being true to how he acts. So that's what I think he was doing. And I hope I was trying to help that, but I don't know. I don't know. Well, you were wonderful at that with all of us, all of us, but Bill also made all of that. You know, they say that that, you know the great sports, you know, having a great player on your team makes everybody else better. And that's just how it was when you had him as the anchor. You just talk about I mean we talked in the last episode about kind of in not necessarily a healthy way, trying to get Michael's um approval and admiration. It was a different feeling with Bill. You wanted that approval and admiration because you knew you earned it with him, and it was something so special when he would he would occasionally throw out a compliment as an actor or something like that, So there was that. It was an interesting balance between the healthy and the unhealthy ways of of I think what Bill is looking to do with you and what's these very rewarding for you guys. Good actors feed off, reinforced and enhanced each other. They pay good actors pay attention. Good actors respond to what is in front of them. They're they're looking you in the eye and listening to your voice and responding to that. And Bill is the highest level actor and so for you guys, as as as newcomers to be in that situation, you can only get better at there. And when Bill wouldn't see that and have that relationship, sure he was as gratified as you. Well, let's let's just jump into the first scene then, because that that really was a hugely forward for me, Um and precisely because of what you're talking about. Getting to do this presentation. Beat was the first time I remember doing something really kind of funny on Boy Meats World, because up until then I was always just the sort of one liners, you know, off to the side in the cafeteria. And I remember having so much fun with this, uh because I you know, I I hadn't really done comedy before, but I remember what you're what you're saying, like the dynamic with Bill just sort of slipping in this dry like Mr Matthews was so And then I remember getting permission to be stupid getting up there, and like, I remember, I don't know who's idea was, but I remember like the pointers, and I believe it was you. David said like, no, no, no no, no, writer, it doesn't matter where you point. That's funny, and that's where we found that joke. I remember finding the joke because we were like, we have to hit the d He's like, no, no no, no no, don't even look, just do it. And I remember we did it, and then Bill reaching out and adjusting us and just loving it. It was so much and it was like the first time coming to live as an actor and getting laughs and being like, oh you mean because I think in my kid brain, I was like, well, I have to bring out the pointer and then I have to find where Denver is because that's what my character is saying. And I remember you being like no, no, no, no, I don't even look at it. Just smack the thing. And that just became a whole bit. Well, let me let me give the synopsis of the episode and then we will go into the first um the first scene. So the synopsis is that Sean and Corey gets split up from doing a project together, making Sean work with Minkus and Corey work with Topanga. Corey overhears girls making fun of his hair and he decides to change it. So, uh, this is Corey's alternative Friends. It originally aired October fift nine three. Uh, and David Trainer, who's joining us, is the director of the writers were Michael Jacobs, April Kelly, and Patricia Forrester. I don't remember Patricia either. I think this may be the only episode she did, but I will fact check that myself. So we're in the very first scene the cold open, as writer was mentioning, um, there are projects going on, and Marla Sokoloff and uh, Megan Parlor are the two girls at the front. Yet we're gonna we've referred to her as fish girl. Um. They get up, they do their presentation, and then we see Sean and Corey get up to deliver their presentation, and Corey is wearing a hooded vest. They both have hoods, but I think I think Sean had sleeves. Sleeves and of course the impeccable dinosaur shirt. Yes, with Writer, it was big into dinosaur shirts. And this episode is what I'd like to start, and we'll get into it as we get further, but the the purple phase of Boy Meets World, where for some reason all or most of us were wearing purple during most of the episode figure, So we will get into that as well, the hooded hooded sweatshirts. So writer, I remember the pointers as well as you do. I remember, you know, because I was just sitting in that scene in the front row. I remember you guys having so much fun and thinking it was so funny to see kids with pointers, and the way Bill is adjusting and the way Bill is reacting to you, and the fact that prop humor, it was just basic prop humor. But I don't think we had done that yet on the show, you know, I hadn't, you know. And so the ability to just like keep finding laughs, and that's mostly what I remember about this episode, I think, is when I finally learned what a sitcom was, like, you know, while doing it. And we'll talk about later, like being able to find multiple laughs in one beat, uh, you know, or or or to stretch something into separate beats like and I remember, Benn, and I've been so happy to be able to do the pointers at the same time, like choreography, you know, like that was just an educational moment, like, oh, this is what comedy is. You get give kids props and let them have fun, you know, and then you set them up against somebody like Bill Daniels and it's just hysterical. Well. I love the proximity of Bill to you guys too, the way he's like right in between you. Um, David, do you do Do you approach directing kids in comedy differently than you approach adults in comedy. I don't think so. I mean I would say that there's a kind of schoolyard energy that is both valuable and has to be contained channeled. But you guys were great. I mean my recollection was everybody came to play apply in the finest sense of work, you know, came to came to figure out how to do this stuff, and and that you know, rehearsal is the most fun of all. I might think you have to perform it and do it all that stuff because you have to put it on paper, film and show it to the public. But the real fun, yes, yes, complete, everybody relax and do it and do it. There's no right or wrong. That's why the whole Michael Jacob stuff that we're trying to work for so antithetically to what really? Because like much, yeah, do it wrong doing? Standing on your head? Do it? Tell me all you think you'd be froeing on your head? Try it? What the hell? It's nobody cared, and as a result, you end up with stuff that's exponentially better than if you So if that's what you want. Kids are particularly gifted kids, which you will were what fun? It kind of comes naturally right because it's very similar to just playing make believe? Yeah? Was this writer? Was this one of those times that you would often talk about where you were given a prop and you and Ben maybe played a little too much with the prop, and Bill would after a while be like, all right, enough with whatever you're playing with. Oh yeah, I probably had at this point. But yeah, I mean at this point, I think we were still you know, we were just discovering what it was we were doing. Uh. I would say by second season is when we were get in trouble with Bill. The second season it went bet and I would be playing with something for too long, or just have an inside joke that we thought was hysterical that nobody else found funny, and we would repeat it at nausea and that was that was big with me and ben Um. But now I don't think at this point. At this point we were just I just remember being so h happy to discover comedy, you know, like I I didn't know what I hadn't done it, and like this was it. Like this was me watching this episode was like and it was remembering, Oh, this is where I learned what a sitcom is because I didn't watch. One of the things you're saying is you didn't go into it thinking it was fun. Exactly, went into it as a task to Perfore I have to get out of my chair, stand up front with and talk. Right, that's good, that's it. Oh and then coincidence it's fun. Yeah, So the kind it's when you know it's fun, that's when you start to do it. Four times it repeated, it starts getting stale real quick. That's fun to discovery. And so in this scene is to Panga's reveal, and you see my hair before you see any other aspect of me, and it brought back immediate memories and I called my mother because my mother is responsible for that. To Panga hair, the crimp, would it be a crimp? It wasn't it was, it wasn't branded my I came home on Tuesday night eight dinner with my family. So Tuesday, you know, after Producer Own Network run through, washed my hair and then and then kind of dried it enough that it was still damp, and then my mom braided my hair in no joke, probably about a hundred braids. I'm talking a miniscule amount hair, very tiny braids, rubber bands all at the bottom. It would take us until about eleven PM and then I would go to sleep and sleep with the braids and then wake up that day where the braids to work, have them all taken out in the hair and makeup room. And we did that for the entirety of the first season. That how did you know that this? Had you done that to your hair before? Well, yes, we we had known just from having long hair that if you braid your hair while it's damp, it creates waves. And I don't remember the specific conversation of like, oh, we want to pay his hair to be crimped, but that was a conversation that was that happened with my mom present, and my mom said, oh, I could braid it. And then eventually at the end of the first season. My mom was like, for one thing, Danielle is up until eleven o'clock on and we had to do it back to back nights Tuesday night for Wednesday pre tape, and then Wednesday night we had to redo it because by that time then it didn't look as good for Thursday, so we had to redo it Wednesday night for Thursday's taping. And my mom was like, one, I'm not getting paid to Danielle is up until eleven o'clock. We have to come up with a different system for hair, and that's when we started doing the curlers. But also like what it didn't It didn't look like I mean, nobody's hair naturally looks like that. Like the only way you get hair like that is to spend yeah, six hours. Interesting that she's supposed to be this like hippie, earthy, but she actually has hair that's been done like basically at a salon level for hours. It doesn't make any sense, but I guess it was just a unique enough look that it made you go like, oh, this person is different. Yeah, fit the aesthetic more than it made any logical sense. But yeah, so that starts are my hair journey. There is Topanga, And I remember this scene in particular, the let me see if you're vibrationally acceptable that is being one of the lines I had to do a million times to say it's slow enough, really just turning slowly, let me see if it was so hard. It was just so in your head because you've got the lights on you, there's a crowd waiting for you. In your head, you're probably like, this is taking forever. Oh yeah, talking it did it felt like I was speed Like that's how it felt to me. I was like, there's no way you want me to do it slower. But you have to say with your hair, with what you're wearing, and with the kind of serene look you have on your face, and with Ben just saying Corey just saying what to Panga, you kind of get most of the character instantly. Yeah, you know right away, you know exactly what it's like. You know you're not gonna get the layers, but you get what they're going with right away, with with like, oh it's a little hippie flower child, like you get it right away? Yes, all right? Are we are? We good to move on to the next scene where we're in the cafeteria. So we're in the cafeteria and this is where Corey overhears fish Girl and Marla sockle Off talking about uh brillow head. They call him brillowhead. Corey assumes it is about him, and he then questions his hair. Well, he asks writer Sean, what do you think about my hair? M I thought, yes, more of a nerve head. Props the rider strong for doing something that lots of actors do not like to do and voraciously eating during the scene. I just wanted to go back and tell myself stop eating. Most of us just just push the food around with a fork so we don't have to eat. Darren Lynes every time you see right now you know again another When he was an off Broadway actor, he always figured out how to eat in a scene in a play. He said, so he was sure he would have exactly Yeah. I always figure out. Yeah. So that's how every night. That's amazing. Ben at one point picks up one piece of ravioli and takes the tiniest little bite to the corner. By the time riders three quarters the way through his plate, it was sober. I was just I was literally pointing it out It's like, look, he's still going. You just kept shoveling it and God bless your rider. Can I can? I I'm gonna do a weird tangent right now because the Marla sockle Off was actually present. This is this kind of connects in a weird way. So you know, people are asked me where my hairstyle came from? Where you know how I got this sort of because actually what people don't realize I had to straighten my hair. My hair is wavier, was wavier, so I would actually be spending hours in the chair with them straightening my hair to get it to look that, you know, the classics Sean hair. But Marla was there the night, so I knew Marla. She was a part of a group of kids that lived at the oak Woods because we were all kid actors. When we come down for pilots season and the pilot season that I got Boy Meets World, I went and had a gathering where I was the only boy with Larissa Atlantic Marla sockle Off, and I can't remember, there was like two other girls there and they decided to take over my hair and they wet my hair and parted it down the middle. And told me that I should be wearing it like this because and I think it was because it looked like Christian Slater, who was like an actor at the time, the older actor that we all looked. And so I started wearing my hair like that, which is why I was wearing my hair that way when I went to the Boy Meets World pilot audition. So in a weird way, a full circle, Marla sockle Off being in this episode connects to my the creation of my character's iconic hair too, and one of one of the first episodes, first of many that had something to do with hair. Yes, a lot of hair here, which is Michael Jacobs has tightly curly hair. Yeah, yeah, dance here. So again this is talking about then being a voice from a representative. Physically, he's a representative, Michael an all that anxiety that the hair here whose name is on the script, Yes, that's true. By the way, Marla Sokoloff went on, we talked about a lot about how we were kind of, you know, against each other for the role of Topanga, and that I got it. Marla Sokoloff has gone on to have an absolutely incredible career. She is so incredibly talented. She's now directing, but she was in she was on Full House, she was in Fuller House, she was in Whatever It Takes, she was on the Practice. She is truly an incredible actress and really cool by the way, and a very cool person person. Yes, so um just giving her her dues because she is, And I think every week we will be doing that. We had so many guest stars on our show that went off to do unbelievable things, uh, that we didn't even realize how blessed we were to be working with a lot of these people. Every week. I'm sure we're going to be like and remember this person and look what they did. And remember this person and look what they did. I mean, in you guys in the Cafeteria, The Weirdos with Topanga Keyboard, Chris Owen is Chris Chris. He says not a single word and plays keyboard the entire time, and plays keyboard the entire time. I did a movie with Chris. You and I both did different movies. You, well, did you remember that he had done this episode when you worked with him? No, so we were he said to me, like second day shooting, he was like, you know, I was on board means for all this like, no, you weren't. It's like, dude, I know everybody experience, don't know I was. I was. He's like the first Topanga episode. I was like, now, I know you're wrong because it's that's like the most important episode of the show. There's no way, and he's like, no, I just sat there playing the keyboard the whole time. I was like, you were the keyboard kid, are you kidding? And yeah, So Chris went off and had another great I mean, it's just we we were one after another of these amazing actors all over the place. Yet so and just to make sure everyone heard me say it, he was the Sherminader in American Pie. He is. He is like just an absolutely famous actor. Um. Anyway, so in I didn't write it down, which was my fault. Do you see the Tapanga and her weirdos in this cafeteria scene or is this just okay? I don't think so. I think this one is just me offering to straighten his hair. And it's where we hear about Stacy for the first time. This is and this is this is where the sort of my experience of the show was. This was where the Death Chair finally came full circle. And because the original up until I believe until Tuesday, I think I think the pork there was another kid who was playing the other best friend, and it was his sister who straightened her her hair, and he ended up going with Corey to Corey's house and straightened his hair. And I was just like every other episode, stuck in the cafeteria or in the classroom, you know, with a couple of lines, and um, yeah, that kid got fired the same week, so this is again a lot of firing that week. David explained the death Chair to David. I don't know if David knows that we call it the death chair, and they were Yeah, I think David helped named it the death chair. We we always talked about. But I remember, I mean, and I think I've talked about the on an earlier episode of the podcast. But David, you might not remember. But the morning I showed up, um having gotten the script that now Sean had a much bigger part and that everything had been cut, you were in this cafeteria scene with the cameras there. So yeah, it must have been Wednesday morning. It was. It was, it was after the Tuesday run through Um and Uh. I remember you pulled you pulled me out out of my seat and stood me in front of the hall uh crew and said, can I just say it is well deserved and about time that you had your your your your do and you got this kind of part and it's going to be great and everybody applauded. And I remember just like being so grateful and feeling like, Okay, I can do this because I was terrified, you know, so nervous, Um, and you just made me feel so comfortable and welcome and deserving and it just, you know, like I said, it changed my life. This episode was the one where I was like, oh, I'm I'm a part of a sitcom and this is what I this is the job and it's just something too of the long life of the show. This is the fourth episode, right. The writers can only do so much at once, so they start with the core thing, which is Corey and and Field Daniel, and then they start to mess around with the pieces and figure out what's missing and what what how do we amplify this? And you look around and find out what resources are right there and write are there? You were right just the way Daniel there you were in a little bit park and and just the way will you said, you know, I came in and I realized how to say. It's like actors flower in small opportunities and then the opportunities a large and next thing. You know, that's the show smart writers are paying attention to what's lurking on the edges. Yeah, absolutely, because, yeah, it was so funny that they kept trying to find this third character. They're like, man, we really can't nail this friendship situation. And then they were like, yeah, because we don't need the other person. We have of the friendship right here. We have writer, we have Sean, and let's lean into that. And obviously that's a you know, the Sean Corey relationship is absolutely iconic. Wasn't the first character that the poor actor who was fired wasn't his sister originally named Rochelle, I will consult I will consult with Rochelle, right, That was his line, And can I tell you the story? But I think we have to tell that story. WHI should we wait till the scene? We wait till we get to this. Now, this is so the Originally he offered to talk to his sister to figure out how to straighten her hair or how she straightens her hair, and Corey says to him, well, will you ask her? Can you can? You? Can you find out? And the kid was supposed to sit back and be really cool like he was maybe going to help Corey, and he just in the line was I will consult with Rochelle. And before the run through, what was a big laugh the first time. Remember right before the through, Ben told the guy that is so funny when you take like the longest beat ever before you say that line, it's so funny. You should just wait forever. And the kid listened to Ben and sure enough leaned back in his chair, took a deep breath and just nobody laughed. Just he took. He took like thirty seconds and then said I will consult with Rochelle and not a single laugh. And when he was next and you, Ben and the whole rest of the week, Red and I were like, oh my god, we got that guy fired because it was two of us being like, that's so funny, let's see. But yeah, Ben, I remember Ben always being like, what do they do? I told him to take a huge beat. Oh my gosh, if you think it's funny, oh my gosh. Okay, so we were out of the cafeteria. We're back at home. Lily has her classic doll throwing moment. Her Dolly is cold, she puts it in the toaster oven. Great joke, by the way, great jokes that you I mean that that would be a mistake, and then tapping her dead Mommy, that was a funny joke. This is now the dance. There were so many iconic moments in this episode, I mean, one after another of stuff that people talk about when they think of Boy Meats World. They were like four of them just in this episode. Yeah, there's a couple of them just in the scene. Use a mirror babe, a mirror babe. The dance. Yeah, and I remember the dance. I hadn't remembered it until I was watching again, but I remember that when when it came time for Topanga to do the interpretive dance, I remember saying to David, so, what do you want me to do? And he said, come up with it. What feels what what feels good to you? What do you want to do and being like huh, okay again. That was one of the things that David did so beautifully is put things in our hands. This is your character. What would she do? Think about it? Put it together. I'm here. I'm here to help you if you need help. And I was one of those things that then Jennifer the unsung hero of Topanga Lawrence, Uh, My mom and I choreographed that dance. I remember my mom. I remember saying, like, you know the humpback whale part, being like, okay, well, now what am I going to do? And she said, what if you you know, what if you do this and it's like a humpback whale and then immediately that moment and then when you know, so pale, oh you know, look to the sun like I remember doing that with my mom and coming up with what we came up with and presenting it to David and David being like, yeah, yeah, that's great, it's great. I love it. That's what is you O Yes exactly. And that's so one of the things is that that moment holds because it's coming out of you. It's not imposted. Yeah right if if if you and it's a wonderful moment. But yeah, and I felt comfortable doing it because my mom and I created it. Yeah, I felt I felt comfortable doing it. I knew what I needed to do. The only thing that, of course, is hard. I was holding the lipstick in my hand, and I was supposed to be making a round donut, and so I'm holding the liquid in my thumb, and so the circle isn't a complete circle. Um. And then I have to take the lid off, and I'm now I'm holding a lid in one hand and the lipstick in the other. And I think I was supposed to draw a peace sign on my face. It was, which makes sense, but I think it ended up being a plus sign. It was a circle with a plus sign in on my face. Um. And I don't think we had to do it a bunch of times. I think we pretty much. I mean, I know we did it more than once, but I don't remember having to, Like I remember because I remember this was my first moment discovering that there would be two laughs for the price of one, because I would walk in and get a laugh on the look, and then get a laugh on use a mirror, babe. And I remember discovering that on tape and being like, oh, oh, they're laughing at just the way I stop and look that that's a whole separate beat, you know, just learning how to act that you were listening to that unrehearsed cast exactly. That's the key to doing this. That's where it was back to the theater because yeah, you gotta both do it and be ready to jump and also listen and be ready away. Yes, it's I mean they were. That was the first time we we had an interactive audience too. I mean we had They were really engaged that night and giving us instantaneous feedback, and that was the first time we'd ever really experienced that. It was was that because the show was already airing or what? What made you think it was out yet? I just got lucky. We just had the best two people we could have pought some. Yeah, I remember, I'm One of the things I remember about that is, you know, we always would do intros, and our intros are always a ton of fun for us. We would do what we've talked about this, we do our our yell and then we'd run out. And that was the first time that it was mostly girls. And I remember that you and I ride both got like the woos for the first time ever, and it was like, oh, what's going on? Something that was just totally different. Yeah, it was a totally so it's very strange. There's an element too of four episodes and your kind of got your feet down were more relaxed. Yeah, definitely. If you were nervous, even hidden nervous, the audience can feel if you're sort of cool, yeah, can relax and respond naturally, and then it gets much more. It was I remember, actually I remember so Mitchell Bank was our warm up guy, and um, the girls were wooing. So Mitchell brought me out in front of the audience and had me like run back and forth in front of them as they were wooing, and he came, Yeah, exactly exactly, so he came and apologize. That's what I remember is he came and apologize where he was like the next week he was like, you know, I shouldn't have done that. And it was Michael who told me. He's like, no, I told Mitchell that don't ever do that to you again. And it was again, I'm ignorant to all this stuff. I was like, oh, important person tells me to run in front of audience, that's what I do. Yeah, he to us though they were adults. You know, everybody was an adult. Everyone was an adult, So it was. But he came an apologized, sorry, I shouldn't have done that, and and Michaels like, You're never doing that again. I was like, So then he did it to Bill Daniels the following week, right, probably, yes, exactly. Well Bill was always the hard throb of the show, really, but it was it was it was that strange moment of realizing where it's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't just do what the adults automatically tell me to do all the time. You know, you have those moments where it's like that's you know, you gotta you gotta stand on your own a little bit at some point, and you get those little moments of that was one of those moments. I probably shouldn't have done that. So it was weird. Yeah, it's very strange. So then we're up in the bedroom Corey and Eric's bedroom and uh, we see the hair straightening of disaster disaster on his hair. His head is burning. Uh, and writer, you call Stacy like you do all your sister, like Sean always did for seven years oh eight. This was the only time that ever. Yeah, I was also bummed at, like how quickly Sean just as like they clearly hadn't developed We hadn't. I had no relationship with the parents yet, had no relationship with you yet, and that really didn't happen to the end of this season, probably to the Fugitive episode. I feel like when I blew up a mailbox is when Sean as sort of troublemaker was really solidified. But this is the beginning of that, right, Like Sean gets Corey into the situation. Um, so it's funny, but but I don't have any any real character, Beautis. But they also haven't developed you at all yet because it was not was it this episode or last episode where you say like touch football my house after and it's like, okay, well Sean didn't have a house and there was no backyard, so it's like you could tell they didn't you know, they just weren't there yet. It was like, let's put this, let's put this in all right, your your friends, that's the way it's gonna be. All Right, You're gonna play touch foot by your house. It's like, well, we haven't developed that John doesn't have ows or a sister. Yeah. I was bummed at you bailed, especially because you I really feel like for both Will and Writer. I felt like this is the episode where I feel like you guys did really have your characters. Like Writer was very you were very funny in as You're always right to me the star of like you are so freaking good every week I'm always like, damn, he was good, way better actor than most of us. But you know what I'm doing. But you were not in control of my body or my voice. I'm just like all over the place. It was great, and you definitely every week you've been giving yourself crap, saying like, oh, I'm not good whatever. This moment when Will comes in does the balls a ball? Yeah, it was great, dude. I was getting I was slowly getting more comfortable, but it was still I still get moments in my head as an actor where I'm looking at it going like, oh, and I'm sitting on the desk because David said, now go sit on desk. You know, like it was one of those things where I just was very I wasn't doing anything naturally and I was very robotic. Yes, yeah, you're very presentational, but I feel like they felt like like you were owning the presentation. I was getting there a little more, but it was I mean, I wasn't looking down to find my mark, but it was pretty damn close still. So it was I just wasn't comfortable in my own skin as an actor at all. So it was And I'd love to blame the writing, be like, well they hadn't found me as a character, you know, I just wasn't comfortable. I was how could we be? But see, that's the thing, that's what Daniel was talking about. You came off as very comfortable. You came off really like you had the character even though you didn't know what the character was yet. You were very natural at doing what you were doing, young actor. But it was in theater. I had never watched television, so I didn't know what we were doing. So I was probably more present in some ways, like I was more of a less self conscious in a good way, you know. But it's not like I knew what I was doing. And you know, I was super relaxed because I was. I was just there. I was just in the sort of ever present state. Uh So, yeah, but I I all I see is like a mess. When I look at me, I'm like, oh god, David, do you have any thoughts feelings looking back at like your old directing work. When you watch this episode. Now, I look at you guys, and I love what you do, and then I admire and grateful to be part of it. And I know that sounds a little like what Way, but it's about the actors, about the actors in the words. So when you guys are good and funny, I think, yeah, they're good, and I take great pleasure in that. Like an audience, I really did. Like, I know we're only part partial way through it, but I really did love this episode. I did. I did too. It was really it's so I don't know, it's so, it's so cute. It's also very well built, and again to credit where it's dudent, even a twenty two minute story has to have a structure, and every one of the scenes at dances this. And I want to go back to Lily or if that's your name, a little, the child that has no part of the story. It doesn't have any connection to anything else. Everything else built. Where there's a project, there's hair. The hair leads to I did notice. I did notice. She says, I don't care what my doll looks like. I still maybe, I still love I was like, oh, maybe that's a thematic link exactly, but it's a very built little store. Yeah. That's something right or mentioned early on too, is that every moment so far in the scripts were like, yeah, that comes back later. Yeah, that builds on it, everything builds Yeah, all right. Can we talk about the end of the scene. Yes, this is one of those classic moments that I think this might have been the origin of us saying optical flip. This is what bed is. Like. They're one thing, I'm not going to school tomorrow, school Corey. No, And then in the script it would say optical flip and then you turn the page. And what that meant is that they would in the editing flip the screen. It's such like a nineties eighties like editing technique to flip the screen to then reveal, of course Corey's sitting in school. But then we this became our in joke, is that we knew we were like our service for the end of the scene was to tee up the optical flip and that's all we do. So then it just became our running joke for seven years. We'd say something to one another and we'd be like, optical flip. But there's no way I'm going to that party, opal flip. It's true. Yeah, the second I saw that, that memory just came right back into my brain. But yeah, we'd say it about everything and personalized, not just when we heard. One of us will be telling the story and we'd just be like, optical flip. Yeah, I remember it so well. The only thing so there we go to the classroom after that optical flip. Yet that struck me as odd is that he's wearing the hat and we're acting as though the hat is completely covering the fact that his hair is all the way down. I was watching it last night with my wife and she said that she's like, does nobody notice that the rest of his hair doesn't look It's like, has nobody nobody picked up on that? Like, I guess not, baby, Well, I guess the two the two moments, like, um, the scream that happens in that episode where you know, we pull out to reveal Corey screaming in the room and then we see the outside of the house and then we reveal you know, that's like the first real moment of the show that's like clearly not taking place in reality. It's like the first time yeah, out of nowhere. That's kind of the first time. And then you know in the next scene with him with the with the wig and wig was the wig is actually pretty funny? It is the wig with the duck bill on the front, about the taking off the hat and whether or not the hair would drop to create the duck bill. I remember the stress of like that needing to go right and not really ever fully fully falling the way we needed it to bend. To his credit, you can tell is doing his best to play it towards the lens, like where he's like trying to turn his head, trying to turn show the angle so you can see that there's a big duck bill in the front. So even he was more aware as an actor at that point of Okay, well if I turn this way, then at least I can show what the whole joke is supposed to be. Um I hadn't found that yet, but he clearly had. Which is at twelve again carrying the show. And let's point out again we've said this in every episode now so far, but he's been in every single scene essentially for four episodes. This kid who's twelve has been carrying four straight episodes it's amazing. But one of the things I remember, because you know, my workstation would be a podium right where I had a script and that stuff on the podium office in the script open and I remember Ben would come over. You can barely see up to where the script is before a scene. Look at it got right. He's like his brain remembered every particle went into amazing. Yeah, the skill level of I mean, obviously he's studied his lines before, but he would just like look and do it. Also skill set. Yeah, I remember him being off book, which is what you call it. You know, you you hold your script for the first couple of days because you don't know the lines yet. Uh. He was always off book. Uh faster than the rest of us was. The rest of us were excuse me english, um, but he he was, he would he would we all. It's memorizing lines, especially when you have the regularity of a sitcom, is muscle memory, and you really can you you lose it after a while if you if you're not memorizing lines every day, you go back fifteen years later and it's tough to memorize your lines again. Um. So it is a muscle memory you use, but He just had it very quickly. I mean to the point where, just like David was saying, he would because Michael would run in in the middle of scenes, in the middle of when we talk about changing the like oh, Bill has to deal with the changes, or we had to deal with the changes. These would happen instantaneously on the set in front of the audience, sometimes an entire page, like the full page. Cross it out. Now this person is going to say this, this person is going to say this, and everything is different. And now I'm really I'm learning que lines differently. I'm figuring out what I'm gonna say. I have to figure out how I want to say it, and the audience is sitting there waiting for you to do it. And Ben would just instantly pick it up like all right, let's go, and we're like, okay, I guess we're doing this. So yeah, he had that, right, there's that energy of we don't even know it, you know, it's so fresh at that point. But yeah, Ben was. Then we keep talking about how good Ben was, but he was he was good. Yeah, I mean into David's point too, that's, uh, you don't know if anything's funny yet. So it's great because you'll get a real natural reaction based on you know, we we don't have any feedback. Nobody's had a chance to tell us, oh my god, that's so funny. And then we find a way to play it up. And it's fresh for the audience too. They might have seen it three times already, so now they've got a new scene automatically. They don't expect it either, and it's a whole new energy coming from there. We add something into this because as you talk, how completely untemperamental. There was never any ride or you went you know, and that's the remarkable thing of a company of actors who who Because I've been in other situations where lines change things or where things are and I just pushed back. Yeah, I can see you put on it and I will push back or be just naturally have a temper battle response to things. That's not always the easiest thing to do. And I get it right. It's not like I'm going to let the heck is going on. You guys will soon, so take it well with figure out how to be along to do it. Nearly remarkable and because a show with young people like you has time. Yeah, yeah, we don't if you say I can't do this or I gotta go to my dressing already, we never get done right. So among all the other things you deserve credit for is having your feel we have so I mean, I like right or remember those moments and thinking it was just fun and just being what what new lines? Okay, what are they? What are what are we doing? That's the way you got to do it. And Daniels had to learn it. I think he's a smart guy and learned fast, but she in the beginning exactly exactly and then and then I think he got I don't think they walked on to him seventeen seventy six halfway through and said we're going to change the John Adams. So at the end of the scene in this classroom, Corey takes off his hat. Everybody sees the hair. Everybody laughs at him, and he looks at the panga and he says, you know, go ahead and laugh, and she says, you know your hair looks different. Why would I laugh at you? And he gives her that look for the first time, like why are you? Why are you like this? And he wants to know a little bit more, I think, which is odd. Because later in the series we find out you've actually been in love since you were fine exactly another and then you were in Yeah, it gets mentioned that we mentioned exactly. It's of course mentioned that Corey and Topanga been together since they were three, which we you know, we've seen the origin. You know that isn't true. Um. But so then we go into the cafeteria and this is now where I basically stopped writing notes at this point because I was now just like sucked in. And I loved this cafeteria scene where we see the cast of characters that Tapanga hangs out with. One of my favorite lines in the series is what cape? When he says so funny, laugh out loud, funny line that I was not expecting it, and I thought it was amazing. It was great. Yeah, have a question for you. You've you know, you've worn this cape since you were little. And he just stands up, he says, what cape? It's so funny to me. Uh, And Marty York is the friend in this so he's the third friend. He's not sitting in the death chair, but he's he is the death chair. That week is so mean. There was a lot of people that I mean if you look back at that, there were times where and I get why it had to be very direct, but there's times where Corey came off as me. I mean, there's there's there are a couple of characters where it's like, but that's there's something very real about that. I mean, that's kind of how kids are. And if I don't think it works the same way in today's world, no, I don't think. I think that there's a there there's an overall insider outsider what is normal, what is not? Uh atmosphere that this episode sure surely encourages, if not exploits, And obviously you know, it makes a bridge between Corey and to Pango via that. But there's a mean spiritedness there, you know, in general, to like what is normal and what is average or what what most boys do? And you know, I it's funny because I feel like that is incredibly dated and it doesn't think it's like of course, yeah, no, definitely fact that Corey, as the representative of the spirit of the show, comes to see that he was wrong, Yeah, definitely, So that's it. There's one line where it's not in the scene to be able to say, well, get there, but there's only one line where I go, and that is you're gonna be one of those girls just doesn't shave the let's right. Yeah, that's why when you think, now you just take that. Yeah, that scene we yeah, that's the scene where I do the dance. That's another one. That's right, that's us a mirror babe scene. And you're going to be one of those girls who doesn't shave. And I loved the reaction, and I actually loved my reading, haven't. I haven't decided yet. It's a little offended, but hey, I and I'll figure that out when I figured nothing to do with you. Yeah, exactly in your response. Save your response makes it okay, passable? Exactly. Um. So yeah, this is where we see Chris Owen playing the keyboard, never speaks, never speaks, first stops playing the keyboard. Not one. I know every every actor there, Lee Norris, Um. I don't know the actress's name, and she I think went on to do other stuff too. Recognized her and I couldn't. Yeah, I couldn't remember what her name was either on but everybody is so great at that table, and so Sean is laughing at Corey. Corey gets up and he goes to join them and realizes he's one of them now, and the petition again to save to save the Librarian comes up, and he then, you know, says why they're not going to have any success? Um, I mean that's anybody else want to talk about anything else? And that I mean again we we hit out the jarred by the Beavis and butthead reference that doesn't want but head. But it's a good one because even though it's dated and obviously it's just the name is funny, you know, like they don't want that, they want Beavis and they watch Bevis and buttheads and then but then our audience cheered, I doubt we expect it. Actually, yes, when he said, like anything without Angela Lansberg, that's fun it's so funny somehow, still, yes, it is, and it's also it's it's one of those things where the writers would often put in jokes that meant one thing to kids and something else to adults. I mean, how often you have eleven or twelve year old kids throwing out an Angela Lansbury reference? And it works and it still works to David's point about twenty nine years later, it's so really funny, funny to hear see Lee talking about Angela Lansbury. It's yeah, every character in that little group is phenomenal and literally wrote down what it was. It's just so funny. And and even Chris Owen without having a line playing the keyboard, like it's all those characters were well defined and you you loved them, and you you know, doesn't keyboard. Man, he does. He does so great. It's so great. Oh man, so great. I love it. So we go back to the else. We're in Corey's bedroom. Cory is now curling his hair, trying to get it back to its original glory, and Eric walks in, yes, this is uh so I'm actually gonna show Daniel something here on my phone I found when I was home. All the original polaroids are you work? He has the polaroids that he took me. M the polaroids Oh my gosh, that I took of him in the actual scene, in the actual scene. So I have polaroids, and then polaroids of them doing, and then polaroids of the original kid that was with you writer. No way, I will consult with roche I will consult with Rochelle. So I have all I literally the polaroids and I must have I must have fifteen of them from all the different takes we did. It's just walking in, taking a taking a polaroid, and walking out with the whole scene. And I was cleaning out my my childhood bedroom and I came upon all the polaroids, so I still have. It's so strange, amazing. Yeah, I thought that was kind of cool. And then we are back at the school by the lockers and Corey shows up. His hair is now huge and frizzy, and you know, even the weirdos all to Panga and her weirdos, we all even you know, laugh at him there, and he laughs at that himself. He laughs at himself, you know, Yeah, he lightens up, he can laugh at himself a little bit. And then we have created a human barrier. We handcuff ourselves to the lockers. We are going to get everyone to sign the petition for Mrs rosemead. Um. There's a Don King reference here. So can we talk about how obviously a bunch of kids have access to fifteen pairs of handcuffs, which is which is totally horrible, are absolutely lock and easily easily unlocked. Exactly police stained handcuffs. They just automatically have that. Yeah, it's so funny because like I don't care, Like it's such a good like I was so on board with this scene and I was so glad also that Corey gets you know, gets a moment as a leader, as you know, he it's not just that they're going to handcuff themselves, is that he convinces them, you know, he argues with them, he does he supports the cause. Um. Now, though that was great, you know, one of the things I found interesting that I found a little bit jarring was this is the only time, maybe the only time, because it starts to grow from there that Sean and Corey are literally and figuratively on different sides. I mean any on the scene, am I even in this I don't think so, But that's what I'm said. But it's like you're not part of like you were part of the more Marty York kind of friendships kids, the cool kids, and they're never in the future they you would have been handcuffed with with with Corey right next to it, and so there was something interesting about that. They still hadn't quite found that yet. But it is also interesting that Sean isn't in that scene because Marty York is there. He's the kid, He's the kid who calls Ben, Yeah, I sign it signing, and so it is. I wonder if that was like a deliberate choice that we weren't going to put Sean. Maybe I'll tell you why you can't have Sean in the scene, because Sean would have stayed and you have to be able to get one right. There's a kind of it's easy for the gang, the group to walk off if you have an established character, which is the same reason why Sean's character has to leave in the bedroom when you haven't established a relationship with the parents, Because then you're gonna say, now, do these parents no Sean already? Or is this the first time they're meeting him? Are they angry with him? Do they like you have to blame Sean. It becomes a whole It becomes a whole different thing that they don't have time for Sean. In their first scene, when when Phoeney says stinks and stinks, do you think exactly pertly happy to blame exactly? He's happy to pass the buck there. It is also one of the most if you go back and watch. One of the most unnatural exits ever is the four of them still handcuffed together backing out of the scene. They are literally backing up the stairs. You could tell it was just like get out of the scene. So they're just the four of them handcuffed trying to back out of the scene. So funny it is. It was really funny. I noticed the same thing, very funny. And then I was shocked while watching this that you cannot physically see me shaking. I was so nervous. Well, wait before we get to your nervous thing, because I think that's going to be very important and that has to be its own thing. Can we talk about Ben mouthing along with Marty York's lines, Oh, man, is not even it is not even subtle. I mean he we are just on Corey's face as he is just full mouthing along with all of memorized the whole scene well, and I think it also speaks to his nervousness this scene for us. I think Ben would probably tell you I was not his first kiss. I don't know. Ben was also twelve. I think Ben has said, no, it wasn't my first kiss. It was most certainly my first kiss. I had never kissed anybody. Um, we had not rehearsed the kiss. Throughout the week. We had rehearsed what was going to happen, you know, the pushing up against the lockers, but we didn't actually ever kiss. And it was being taped and we were filming it in front of the live studio audience, so we had never rehearsed the actual kiss. And I was the most nervous of any I have had. You have the most confidence and poise, like, and it's so interesting, like when you just have that beat where you're like, okay, sure whatever you say, and you sort of look off to the side. It's just like such I was. I was. I was. I remember being there looking at the monitor on tape night and just being so thrilled with that scene and like, and I felt it again watching it now years later, I was like, oh my god, I remember this beat. It's so good. I was shocked. You couldn't see me shaking because I remember my inside being just a jumbled mess. And also I remember, you know, my grandparents were there, and so not only am I doing this, it's tape night in front of this live studio audience, I've had this tumultuous week of getting the job, getting almost fired from the job, keeping the job, you know, succeeding at the job. This is the last scene of the night, and my grandparents are about to watch me kiss a boy and I've never done it before, and all these people, not just my grandparents, but like two hundred people are gonna watch. And I knew how important it was to the show, and I was worried I was gonna like do it wrong, or that I was going to let somebody down. And I knew that Ben was also very nervous, and I just remember thinking, like, oh my gosh, I'm never going to get through this. And when I watched it, I was so kudos to me, so I was. I was so cool, and the way I put my hand on my hip and like looks away, I look so self assured. Well you just something you just said. It resonates in such a way that it hadn't hit me until right now. From the note session to where you were crying to that kiss was three and a half days later. Not even a note session was Monday after exactly three days, three days later. This entire journey for you was three days. That's nuts to, which for a three year old is like a year and a half. But you know, like as far as your brain changing rapidly, like and you did you you you've rose to this challenge and you became this confident you know because depended on that moment is acting like a twenty five year old woman. Yeah, and you believe it. You completely believe it. It's wonderful. And then of course ben expression is just like one of the most iconic things. He pencil and he has his lips sucked in because he didn't really want me to kiss him. So he's not he's like, lips sucked in. I'm not really good. He's our lips didn't really ever touch Uh, Yeah he was. He was really nervous about kissing you for a number of reasons. Yeah, he was very nervous to kiss me. I remember that distinctly. So was I. So was I. Man, David, do you remember any of that, like kid nervousness about a kiss? Was this the first time you had ever directed? Before you you didn't do it until you shot because he didn't want to give up the units have photograph. But the other thing I was thinking is you guys were talking about this, any problem, A good actor understands that any problem is not the actor's problem, it's the character. And so the nervous is the panas and the control of the nurses is depar and saying with them exactly, and actors were not in it. Whatever it is. He gets the frock. I don't understand. It's not the characters, the candles not being with it's not the actor. Yeah, so this kiss is really is you being a real actor, you and Ben being real because whenever you felt like that, actors made the cap. Yeah. Yeah, I can get emotional thinking about it. I just it was such a it was such a big moment and we and we really did. When I watch it, I think those look like two kids that are really sure of what they're supposed to be doing. And I didn't feel that way. But we pulled it off. We we look like we know what we are doing. Um, And I love I didn't remember that her reasoning for doing it. For all these years, I never really remembered why she what she why she did it? Like I knew that we kissed in that scene, but I didn't really get it. And I love the idea and the line because wouldn't it be interesting if you had, if you're you always remembered for the rest of your life that your first kissed happened when you thought you looked your worst. Um, it's very cool, it's very cool. Yeah, I just yeah, I love it. It makes it gives me a different feeling on the scene because I hadn't remembered that there was like that really deep meaning behind it. Well, we haven't really in any way, shape or form, and I know we're at the end now discussed the meaning of the show. But the actual theme of the show of let's not care so much what other people think about you and just be comfortable in your own skin is hugely important. And that's the thing that still resonates with a lot of people about Boy Meant World is you would get those messages without necessarily, you know, having to do a very special episode, you know. So that was that's I mean that resonates through the generations that there comes that you can't care what other people think about you, and and doing that through the Tapanga character, I thought was a great way of doing somebody who was so confident at such a young age and showing that kind of like I don't care what people think about me. I'm I'm not the best version of me that I am. I thought it was really cool. So yeah, that that that was one thing our show did very well without having to kind of spoon feed it to you. It's Michael. Michael's inherently moralist, and I do mean I have a bad one, but I mean he he used television as a way to deliver message. Yes, so there are other shows that are wonderful in their own way that they don't don't deliver a message. They may have one coincidentally there, but Michael's very much this is the point the deliver of me. Yeah, and and this episode seems very well into whatever the meaning of my I thought so too. Yeah, it's a great message still and I love Then we're the next scene, the final scene of the show. We're back in the cafeteria, and you know, Corey's hair is back to normal, which means Corey's life kind of goes back to normal. And he's going to sit with his friends. But there's this really nice understanding that for one thing, they offer him a seat the to Panga and her weirdos offer him a seat at their table, and he isn't rude about it. He's it's a He just says, you know, I'm going to sit with them, and we all understand. But we also let him know if you ever need to return, there's always a seat for you here. And uh, you know, then Corey goes and sits back with his friends, and um, I remember the red hat moment, uh, and and the way we looked at each other. And I feel like I don't know if that was always in the script throughout the entire week, because, like David said, in the last episode, we talked about how it's like there's always the possibility that a character is going to return. There's no way you watch that red hat moment and not. Of course Tango's coming back. Of course she has to come back. Um. And so I remember specifically shooting Matt and wrapping that up and then being like, I think I'm going to have a job. I've mom was getting paid eleven o'clock at night in every episode subsequent. No, she wouldn't become a regular to like season three, Yeah, that was crazy. You were you were You weren't even guaranteed recurring for a while. I think after this episode, I got guaranteed thirteen for the rest of that for the rest of the season, but I didn't I got paid for I wasn't in actually thirteen. I think I got paid for thirteen, but I only ended up being in eleven. And then I think the following season, I was also guaranteed thirteen, but maybe did more that season. And then season three was when I was a full blown regular. Um, how is it? You look back and then it's like, really, Tapango wasn't a regular show season three. That's crazy, that's you know it was. There was also just a network. They only allowed so many regular and we had a big cast and wed and it was growing. Yeah, and I think before Site Unseen when the season started, Michael had added Minkas to the cast because he had already worked with Lee and he knew Lee was a known entity. Um, you know. And that's again, you know, Lee wasn't around for the second season, so it's like you had to shuffle. There were only so many characters the budget of the and then Tony Quinn came on second season, didn't he second season? Yeah said that, so it's like we added another regular right there. Yeah, Tony Quinn, who played Mr. Turner came on, um, and so yeah that we were just kind of adding characters and dropping characters, and other characters are coming on as guest stars. It was there's still very much finding themselves. UM. But I look back at this episode, there were so many iconic moments of this episode. There just the legendary. This is the most important episode in the history of Boy's World. I'm convinced. And David, we have you to thank for so much of it. And uh, you know, as I started the last episode, you just you've been so impactful in all of our lives, um, and we are so so grateful that you came here and broke this episode down. And it's I mean, you've you you taught me things, a million things. But even now I'm learning about how this whole process came to be. And I'm just so glad that you came and shared all your email. Yeah that sounds first of all, to see you guys, it is a great pleasure, and I thought, yeah, I'm going go back twenty year. Um, this is a really good way to do it. So thank you for asking well, thank you for for being here and walking through it with us. I'm again, I feel very safe. Yes, I always did. Yeah, you are an amazing conduit into the world of acting. That's for that's for sure. So thank you. Now we'll see each other again, I hope, so I absolutely hope. So thank you, Thank you for asking. Really great to see you all. Please come back again doing this? Yes, well you how many have you in season two? So you don't have to come back soon? I mean, thanks, really nice to see it. That was so wonderful to have him here and to break down that episode with us and to um Man pick his brain and hear his experiences. Yeah, you know, it's always like I mean, I think it's it'll be interesting to hear from our our listeners. Um. You know, we sort of take it for granted, like how important a director is. But it's one of those positions, like I think for a lot of people, the separation of a producer and a director and a writer, it's all kind of jumbled together and it's hard to understand. Um. But really, um, the director is the person who works the closest with the actors um and and and he spends all week rehearsing with them. So Michael Jacobs has so much of the creative um writing uh control Uh, David was really the person in the trenches with us every day. And you know, and whoever the director was that and so so nice that he came back, that he has all these positive memories of us, and and because I have such positive memories of him, so I looked to him as a huge mentor in my life. But I never I've talked to him since, you know, since this whenever he came back. I think in the sixth season he directed an episode two, but you know, we never really talked, and and we also just never you know, I never understood that when he left the show. You know, he obviously went on to other things, but um, you know I didn't. I was really nice to hear his thoughts on Michael and and and I'm the dynamic of our show because you know, when you're a kid, you just think that's why all shows are. Yeah. Well, I also think one of the things we tend not to do when our guest is actually on the air with us is is gush over them. And he's television royalty, I mean, from Designing Women, Boy Meets World, that seventies show that I mean, this guy has has to to sit there and speak with him. The way that we just did kind of as adults is so strange. But that's the thing I'm start wrapping my head around with a lot of these conversations, is having a conversation with these people that were so important when I was a kid, to then sit down and talk to him again as an adult is so interesting to me. It's just a whole new dynamic. Yeah, so uh yeah, thank you so much for coming on, David, and please come back. Yeah, I hope he does. Mayeah. So anyway, absolutely love that guy. Writer. I agree with you. He's like a mentor in my life. And yet it's funny because, like you said, I've never seen him since and he doesn't know that. So it's crazy to think that like you can have like he had such an impact in our life. And I guarantee you he's never once thought, you know, I bet, I bet Danielle and Rider and Will I bet those guys think of me as a mentor. But yet you could have had that much of an impact in somebody's life and you have no idea. Well more so for the two of you, because this is what you do. Became directors and four camera director, I mean, you direct other things. But that's the kind of the bread and butters at the four camera sitcom and this is the this is the man you looked up to to do it. So it's in an approach to acting, I mean like listening to him talk about what he how he you know, in the process, like he understands it so well, and he gives actors so much permission and support. And I remember, you know you feel that as a kid especially, it was palpable that this person respected us, respected our input, wanted us to come up with our own stuff like that dance Daniel. Like the fact that he turned that back on you like any I've worked with so many directors, especially directors who direct kids, who are just like give him a cookie and make him say the line, you know, just do the thing, like come on, do it like this, let me give you a line reading. He never did that, and that it was like the greatest gift for us as actors, um that we wouldn't have had. Otherwise we would not have had that, and we had it immediately following David Trainer with Jeff McCracken for season three and four. So are the first four years the most formidable years of our you know, TV careers, were with two of the most incredible, like minded directors, two generating. Absolutely, and it's also it's it's one of those things where you imagine how different the show would have been had it not started with David Tran exactly. It would have just all of us would have been different actors who wouldn't do different people if that was not the kind of anchor we had on the set every day for two seasons. So yeah, thank thank thank thank god he was there. Absolutely, be sure to follow us on Pod Meets World Show on Instagram or email us your thoughts and opinions at Pod meets World Show at gmail dot com. And we have very exciting news that our first ever podcast merch is now available coming out. We have Pod Meets World Show, which rolls right off the tongue for me, as you know. Pod Meets World Show dot com is our website, and you can purchase our very first pod shirt Merch odd shirt, Pod Mech shirt one, our pod Merchrch, purchase the pod Merch. I'm still going to come up with a song. Guys were professional actors. We are pod merch po merch. That's easier. Just the pod merchant pod Meets World Show dot com right off the tongue, We Love You All pod dismissed Pod Meets World as an I heart podcast, produced and hosted by Daniel Fisher, Wilfredel and Writer Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carpin, Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sud Bash producer, Loraine Verruez, engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at Pod meets World Show or email us at pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com