Confessions of a Brothel Manager: What Really Happens Behind Closed Doors

<v Speaker 1>You were listening to a pleasure podcast. For more from
<v Speaker 1>our sex podcast collective, visit pleasure Podcasts dot com.
<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody, Welcome back to Holly Randall Unfiltered. I have
<v Speaker 2>a really special guest today. I've actually been following her
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram for quite a while, and so when she
<v Speaker 2>reached out to me and said that she was coming
<v Speaker 2>out to LA, I just felt like this was a
<v Speaker 2>conversation that was meant to be. She is somebody who
<v Speaker 2>is truly redefining the conversation around sex work. She's the
<v Speaker 2>manager of one of Europe's largest legal brothels, and she's
<v Speaker 2>currently pursuing a PhD on prostitution and policy. She believes
<v Speaker 2>sex work can be safe, dignified, and even empowering when
<v Speaker 2>done voluntarily and within a legal framework. We'll talk about
<v Speaker 2>what really goes on behind the doors of a European club,
<v Speaker 2>why American men might actually be the best clients, and
<v Speaker 2>the surprising way that sex work can change lives.
<v Speaker 3>Welcome Catherine de Noir. Thank you for having me. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I know, thank you. I'm so excited to have you here.
<v Speaker 2>I just find you to be really fascinating and I
<v Speaker 2>love that you're going out there and you're talking so
<v Speaker 2>openly about what you do, because I always talk about
<v Speaker 2>how there's such a mystery and you know, a veil
<v Speaker 2>over sex work in general, and I, you know, come
<v Speaker 2>from a many many years in the porn industry, but
<v Speaker 2>you work on the other side of sex work in
<v Speaker 2>a brothel. So like there's things that I don't really
<v Speaker 2>know much about. So I'm excited to learn from you today. Now,
<v Speaker 2>you started as a psychologist, so what led you to
<v Speaker 2>brothel management?
<v Speaker 4>It was one big coincidence. So I decided to go
<v Speaker 4>to psychology because like I always had discussion for like
<v Speaker 4>talking with people, like being around people, and like I
<v Speaker 4>like to think, like what is going on inside our heads.
<v Speaker 4>So at some point I was like, Okay, maybe I'll
<v Speaker 4>just try psychology. And it's like really hard to get in,
<v Speaker 4>but like I managed to get in, and so I
<v Speaker 4>started to study psychology, and then I found neuropsychology and
<v Speaker 4>I did my internship in one of the biggest hospitals
<v Speaker 4>in my country. And like I originally thought, like I'm
<v Speaker 4>gonna do neuropsychology, like specifically studying dementias like il tell
<v Speaker 4>My disease, Parkinson disease, and at some point, like I
<v Speaker 4>found this article with a guy and he was a
<v Speaker 4>manager of a brothel and it was called they call
<v Speaker 4>me pimp, but I protect women. And I was like, ooh,
<v Speaker 4>this is interesting, and like before that, like I knew
<v Speaker 4>brothels existed, but like I didn't know anything about them.
<v Speaker 4>So I was like, okay, cool, let's just read it,
<v Speaker 4>and like he's actually not my colleagues, so that's funny.
<v Speaker 4>So he spoke about the way like how they treat
<v Speaker 4>this business as a regular business, like how they treat
<v Speaker 4>women with respect, that actually the women they are not
<v Speaker 4>their employees, but they are independent contractors, and that they
<v Speaker 4>are actually their clients. And I was like, this dynamic
<v Speaker 4>is something like I would never think of. And he
<v Speaker 4>spoke about the role of sexuality society and I finished
<v Speaker 4>the article and I was like that's it, Like this
<v Speaker 4>is the work that I want to do for the
<v Speaker 4>rest of my life.
<v Speaker 5>Wow.
<v Speaker 2>And it was like very random, So one article change
<v Speaker 2>his mind in the direction of your life exactly.
<v Speaker 4>And I was like, oh, okay, so this is something
<v Speaker 4>that I want to do. And then I managed to
<v Speaker 4>find the company he works for and I got like
<v Speaker 4>a little bit drunk and I decided to write them
<v Speaker 4>an email. It's like they weren't searching for any like
<v Speaker 4>new employees, but I was like, just please, like I
<v Speaker 4>want to work with you. And like I was twenty two,
<v Speaker 4>I didn't have like any experience with like sex work
<v Speaker 4>or this industry or the management itself. So I was like,
<v Speaker 4>just please give me a chance. I want to work
<v Speaker 4>with you. And I think it was like the worst
<v Speaker 4>motivational letter like ever. And yeah, by the time I
<v Speaker 4>finished the letter, I was like pretty dronk, so I
<v Speaker 4>just say and then I was like that's it, you know,
<v Speaker 4>like I'll see. And then like a few days later,
<v Speaker 4>they actually called me or hr she called me and
<v Speaker 4>she was like, yeah, we read it and it was
<v Speaker 4>like very original and I was like, oh shit, like
<v Speaker 4>what I wrote that, Like I'm not quite sure.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then she.
<v Speaker 4>Basically invited me for an interview and I went through
<v Speaker 4>three rounds of the interviews and at the end like
<v Speaker 4>I got the job. So yeah, and like since then,
<v Speaker 4>it's been nine years and I'm still loving it. It's amazing.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I'm so glad it. I found this article
<v Speaker 4>and it was like if you think about it, like
<v Speaker 4>I couldn't like I could do anything else and like yeah,
<v Speaker 4>I'm just there and it's amazing.
<v Speaker 2>So what position did you apply for or did you
<v Speaker 2>just write them say I'll do anything.
<v Speaker 4>No, I wanted to be the manager.
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, you specifically applied to.
<v Speaker 4>You know, please give me this job. I mean, I
<v Speaker 4>ready article. I think it's amazing. I'm willing to learn.
<v Speaker 4>And it was the time when like so our company
<v Speaker 4>we used to hire like the grown up managers like
<v Speaker 4>coming from like hospitality or like nightlifelike bars, those kind
<v Speaker 4>of stuff, and also like some sort of like corporate managers,
<v Speaker 4>and like they were really good managers in like those companies,
<v Speaker 4>but like if you manage people in a brothel, like
<v Speaker 4>you can't manage them by the power. It's like the
<v Speaker 4>sex workers. They are not our supportin its. We like
<v Speaker 4>to like approach them as an equal because they are
<v Speaker 4>they are independent contractors, so when they work with us,
<v Speaker 4>they can like they decide about their prices about services,
<v Speaker 4>they can always refuse the customer, like we never set
<v Speaker 4>the schedule for them. So so it's different of the
<v Speaker 4>management and I think like what really helps And those
<v Speaker 4>people who were coming from like hospitality, like they knew
<v Speaker 4>like different type of the management. So they were not
<v Speaker 4>really good managers at brothel. And since I didn't have
<v Speaker 4>like any concept of like what should I do as
<v Speaker 4>a manager, like, they basically showed me everything, and like
<v Speaker 4>over the years, I kind of developed this like very
<v Speaker 4>unique managerial style, and like I believe, like I'm a
<v Speaker 4>good manager at a brothel, but like I don't think
<v Speaker 4>I would be a good manager like anywhere else.
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of parallels I can draw here, you know,
<v Speaker 2>because as a director, you know, obviously directing people in
<v Speaker 2>videos doing sex work, it is absolutely a job, like
<v Speaker 2>you said, but you can't manage them like you would
<v Speaker 2>like regular actors or any other job. There's a strange
<v Speaker 2>nuance there because on one hand, it is a job,
<v Speaker 2>it is a performance, but it's also sex. So there's
<v Speaker 2>like the level of intimacy there that you have to respect,
<v Speaker 2>and there's a level of vulnerability there that doesn't exist
<v Speaker 2>in any other job. Really, I don't think, and you
<v Speaker 2>have to understand that nuance, and not everybody does. Can
<v Speaker 2>I ask you how many female managers had worked there
<v Speaker 2>before you?
<v Speaker 4>Oh, like before me, I have no idea, but like
<v Speaker 4>we have, so we have seven managers. We are like
<v Speaker 4>top two of us, so it's me and my colleague
<v Speaker 4>and then we have three girls and the rest are guys.
<v Speaker 4>And it's actually kind of funny because like here in America,
<v Speaker 4>like most of the managers, like they call themselves smartams,
<v Speaker 4>they are girls, whereas like in Europe, like most of
<v Speaker 4>the time, like the managers are guys. So with us,
<v Speaker 4>it's like a little bit different, like we like to
<v Speaker 4>have like more girls in a managerial team.
<v Speaker 3>But like, yeah, so what drew you?
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, doing this pivotal change, you must
<v Speaker 2>have obviously had certain feelings about like sex and sex
<v Speaker 2>work before you made this decision, right, Like was there
<v Speaker 2>a natural curiosity there? And this is what I.
<v Speaker 4>Was always like pretty open about like sex. I like
<v Speaker 4>to try different things. I used to go to swingers
<v Speaker 4>quite a lot because like in Europe it's fairly normal.
<v Speaker 4>It's probably more normal than here, So.
<v Speaker 2>I would say, so I was like.
<v Speaker 4>Really open about like sex, and this place seemed like
<v Speaker 4>sex positive place. I was like, yeah, it kind of
<v Speaker 4>fits into like my own relationship to sex. And like obviously,
<v Speaker 4>like if I would be like any like brutish type
<v Speaker 4>of person, like probably I couldn't work there, but like
<v Speaker 4>since I'm not, and like I respect that, Like everyone
<v Speaker 4>can do whatever they want with their sexualities. Like they
<v Speaker 4>can either sell it. They can either share it with
<v Speaker 4>one person. They can either like decide like not to
<v Speaker 4>do anything sexual at all, because like I believe that,
<v Speaker 4>like we own our sexuality. So I guess I'm in
<v Speaker 4>a good place.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how did your family and friends react to this
<v Speaker 2>career path?
<v Speaker 3>For people?
<v Speaker 2>Surprised?
<v Speaker 4>Yes, Like my friends, they they kind of knew about
<v Speaker 4>this because like I was so thrilled about the article,
<v Speaker 4>so like I told them, like I sent them the article,
<v Speaker 4>I was like, you need to read this. And so
<v Speaker 4>like my friends, they kind of expect this, but like
<v Speaker 4>my family, they didn't. So they kind of thought that.
<v Speaker 4>So most people in my family they either have PhDs
<v Speaker 4>or I think my father his professor already. So like
<v Speaker 4>I come from this family, and like everybody is slawyer
<v Speaker 4>like economists, they do your research, and they kind of
<v Speaker 4>thought that I will go into that path as well.
<v Speaker 4>So when I started with the neuropsychology, they were like, good, okay, nice,
<v Speaker 4>like this is what we kind of wanted you to do.
<v Speaker 4>And then the brothel happened, and then I needed to
<v Speaker 4>tell them. So like my father he just said and
<v Speaker 4>listened and he was like, Okay, that sounds like a
<v Speaker 4>really good place where you actually take care of the
<v Speaker 4>women and like you really respect them. So he was cool.
<v Speaker 4>But my mom she was not. I mean, she didn't
<v Speaker 4>speak with me for some time, and she was like, oh,
<v Speaker 4>so you're like you're going to be a pimp or what.
<v Speaker 4>So like I needed to explain her everything, and like
<v Speaker 4>eventually she was like, okay, yeah, like probably like you're
<v Speaker 4>not some sort of like bad pimp, like you know,
<v Speaker 4>beating girls or something. So yeah, but it took them
<v Speaker 4>a while, Like especially my mother and I have a
<v Speaker 4>brother and he's seven years younger than I am. So
<v Speaker 4>for him, I'm like really cool sister, especially with the
<v Speaker 4>socials and everything. Like for him, it's like, do you
<v Speaker 4>know my sister?
<v Speaker 2>Does he send like his friends to your place?
<v Speaker 3>And big? I really know, I meant count I mean.
<v Speaker 4>He never he never tell me this, so like I
<v Speaker 4>don't know, probably not.
<v Speaker 2>So walk me through a typical night at your club.
<v Speaker 2>What can people expect when they visit a brottle.
<v Speaker 4>You basically, so we have stairs, you look up the stairs,
<v Speaker 4>and there is a reception and our receptionist they will
<v Speaker 4>first speak with you just to see like whether you
<v Speaker 4>are drunk or like you're aggressive or something. So in
<v Speaker 4>case like you are too drunk or you start to
<v Speaker 4>behave like weirdly like, they will not let you in.
<v Speaker 4>So first you need to go through a reception and
<v Speaker 4>buy the entry ticket, which is wellid for twenty four
<v Speaker 4>hours and it costs like twenty euros like dollars, and
<v Speaker 4>then you're basically good to go. So there is a
<v Speaker 4>part with the rooms, and there is a part for
<v Speaker 4>the customers, so you can either chill at the bar
<v Speaker 4>or we have like several lunges or like VIP area
<v Speaker 4>so you can sit there and relax, like and a
<v Speaker 4>lot of the guys they actually do this. So they
<v Speaker 4>come to the brothel and they are like, oh, maybe
<v Speaker 4>like I don't want to see the sex workers yet,
<v Speaker 4>or maybe I'm just like here to hanging out with
<v Speaker 4>my friends. So a lot of the guys they actually
<v Speaker 4>come in and they just like stay at the bar,
<v Speaker 4>and yeah, some of them they just go like straight
<v Speaker 4>to the to the rooms. But there's like no pressure
<v Speaker 4>to like choose the sex workers or like to choose
<v Speaker 4>the services. Basically you can just like hanging out there
<v Speaker 4>and if you decide like you want to meet the
<v Speaker 4>girls or something, you just go there and then it's
<v Speaker 4>up to you.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So say I want to you know, order a service. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>what are the next steps there?
<v Speaker 4>So you basically need to walk through the hallway and
<v Speaker 4>the girls, like each of them, they have their own rooms,
<v Speaker 4>so they are either standing in front of the room
<v Speaker 4>or they are sitting in the room or like laying
<v Speaker 4>down in the room. This is pretty much up to them,
<v Speaker 4>and you just like walk past them. And when you
<v Speaker 4>see somebody that you like, you need to start to
<v Speaker 4>speak with her and like ask her, like what do
<v Speaker 4>you want to do? Like what is your price range?
<v Speaker 4>Because as I said, like the girls they are deciding
<v Speaker 4>about the services and about the prices and like everything
<v Speaker 4>by themselves, so like you need to speak with them,
<v Speaker 4>and it might happen that she will like refuse you,
<v Speaker 4>Like she will be like I don't work with you
<v Speaker 4>for any reason. It's always there right to refuse the customer.
<v Speaker 4>So you just basically need to speak with the ladies
<v Speaker 4>and then if she decides that it's okay, you're good
<v Speaker 4>to go and she will just basically invite you to
<v Speaker 4>the room, close the door, and then the fun begins.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what if I went in there with a very
<v Speaker 2>specific thing that I wanted, like say, I really wanted
<v Speaker 2>to have anal right, like would I.
<v Speaker 4>See not actually very specific like a lot of the
<v Speaker 4>guys okay, the top one surveys the guys won't, so.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay. Actually, so after that question, to be the
<v Speaker 2>penetrated one, like okay, okay, yeah, sure, okay, I want
<v Speaker 2>to be penetrated. Okay, Well I said it anal because
<v Speaker 2>not every girl wants to do anal right, And so
<v Speaker 2>I was just wondering if if he's told okay, well
<v Speaker 2>the girls in room three, six and seven anal, but
<v Speaker 2>none of the rest of them do, or do you
<v Speaker 2>have to go to each girl?
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, you have to go to each girl and
<v Speaker 4>ask because like one of the things like we don't
<v Speaker 4>do is like we don't advertise as services because if
<v Speaker 4>she doesn't feel like doing this service at that moment,
<v Speaker 4>like and if we say okay, like this girl she
<v Speaker 4>does X Y Z, and like she wouldn't feel like
<v Speaker 4>doing it maybe at the time or like maybe with
<v Speaker 4>that customer, like she would feel pressure to do it,
<v Speaker 4>so like they all decide like right away.
<v Speaker 2>So then, leaning on what you kind of said before,
<v Speaker 2>what is like the most specific or interesting thing that
<v Speaker 2>a client has looked for in a brothel?
<v Speaker 4>So, I mean I've seen everything, but like the top
<v Speaker 4>one is like anal sex like they want to be
<v Speaker 4>the one who's being penetrated gus and like also those
<v Speaker 4>guys are usually like merrit or in the relationship and
<v Speaker 4>they're like I would love to try this, like I
<v Speaker 4>heard it's very pleasurable, but like I don't want to
<v Speaker 4>ask my partner about it because she might think that
<v Speaker 4>I'm like weird or like maybe something will change between them.
<v Speaker 4>So like a lot of the guys who are in relationship,
<v Speaker 4>they come to brothel to try to be penetrated. And
<v Speaker 4>like the weirdest one, I think I've seen everything, so
<v Speaker 4>like different role plays, different type of the Like what
<v Speaker 4>I like about the brothel is that you get to
<v Speaker 4>actually see like the erotic fantasies that are like not
<v Speaker 4>erotic for everyone. So like a lot of the guys
<v Speaker 4>they have their very specific fantasy and like you would say,
<v Speaker 4>it's normal. I mean, like, so we have one customer
<v Speaker 4>and he likes to watch girls eating pizza, like specifically,
<v Speaker 4>have I pizza with the pineapple on it?
<v Speaker 3>And like the kind.
<v Speaker 4>I don't, I don't don't know, so like this is
<v Speaker 4>his fantasy and like the girls are paid for eating
<v Speaker 4>pizza in front of him.
<v Speaker 2>That's all they do. Yeah, Can I can I get
<v Speaker 2>it in front of somebody all day?
<v Speaker 4>And like it's not like this every day? Okay, son?
<v Speaker 2>Can I only eat Hawaiian pizza? I mean you can,
<v Speaker 2>you can, but.
<v Speaker 4>Like probably you will not make that kind of money
<v Speaker 4>just with it, but like maybe you can try it.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, so, can you explain the rental model why
<v Speaker 2>women are considered like the clients of them?
<v Speaker 4>We actually decide to have this model, and so our
<v Speaker 4>company it's in the market around like thirty years, so
<v Speaker 4>we are like kind of old and like the biggest
<v Speaker 4>companies in Europe, and we kind of decide this because
<v Speaker 4>we think that this is the most like fair thing
<v Speaker 4>to do. So when you take the share of sex
<v Speaker 4>workers earnings, that means that you will want her to
<v Speaker 4>be working as much as she can because like you
<v Speaker 4>will make a lot of money. And while when you
<v Speaker 4>have this rent and the rent it's around two hundred
<v Speaker 4>dollars for one day, So it doesn't matter if she
<v Speaker 4>makes like three thousand euros a day or three hundred euros,
<v Speaker 4>she still paid the same. And we think that this
<v Speaker 4>is like the fairest model because she can decide like okay.
<v Speaker 2>I have enough.
<v Speaker 4>But like the negative aspect about this is like you
<v Speaker 4>need to pay the rent in advance, so like it
<v Speaker 4>might happen that you will be working and you leave
<v Speaker 4>a zero or like with minus, and this sometimes happens.
<v Speaker 4>So I always tell these girls when we have the
<v Speaker 4>hiring the hiring interview, I always tell them like, look,
<v Speaker 4>there's possibility that you will pay the money, you will work,
<v Speaker 4>but like you will not make the money back. So
<v Speaker 4>and for some girls this is like this is the
<v Speaker 4>deal breaker. So they would rather go to club where
<v Speaker 4>they need to share the earnings. But like they start
<v Speaker 4>with zero and the the worst case scenario is that
<v Speaker 4>they will leave with zero. But like with us, they
<v Speaker 4>can live with like minus two hundred zeros.
<v Speaker 2>A lot of hairdressers do that. They like rent their
<v Speaker 2>station and then they do whatever they do there and
<v Speaker 2>that's and that's how it works.
<v Speaker 3>So that makes a lot of sense in this way.
<v Speaker 2>So then do girls like reserve the rooms and do
<v Speaker 2>they are there girls who have a hierarchy in terms
<v Speaker 2>of being able to book rooms before other girls or
<v Speaker 2>do they just have to do in an advance.
<v Speaker 4>So they have application on their mobile phone, so they
<v Speaker 4>need to book it through this app, and so they
<v Speaker 4>can decide like, Okay, I want to book this room
<v Speaker 4>in like two weeks, and then she just pays the
<v Speaker 4>rent and that's it. She can always move the rent
<v Speaker 4>by herself. But like there's like no hierarchy, so the
<v Speaker 4>first one that pays the room is heard, and yeah,
<v Speaker 4>so that's that's how we kind of decide.
<v Speaker 2>And then I'm assuming that you're, you know, you have
<v Speaker 2>a selection process in terms of like who you're going
<v Speaker 2>to allow to write rooms there, because you can't just
<v Speaker 2>have like hundreds and hundreds of girls, So how does
<v Speaker 2>that work.
<v Speaker 4>We actually don't have like selection process. I mean, if
<v Speaker 4>she wants to try to work with us, she can.
<v Speaker 4>So the first day when she works with us, it's
<v Speaker 4>always free, so like we don't want to take their
<v Speaker 4>money for something like she doesn't know if it's going
<v Speaker 4>to work for her or not, So the first day
<v Speaker 4>is always free and it's not like the selection. I
<v Speaker 4>mostly just sit down with them and like I show
<v Speaker 4>them around the club, like how it looks, and then
<v Speaker 4>I told them the rules, and the rules are like
<v Speaker 4>they need to decide by themselves, like what type of
<v Speaker 4>the service, what price, if they will if they will
<v Speaker 4>refuse the customer or not. And for some girls they
<v Speaker 4>are coming from clubs where the manager really manage the business.
<v Speaker 4>They're like, I don't know what to do. It's like,
<v Speaker 4>you need to bring me the customer. And I'm like,
<v Speaker 4>look here you are, like I mean we are there
<v Speaker 4>for you to support you. There's security, but like you
<v Speaker 4>need to speak to the customer, like you need to
<v Speaker 4>set the boundaries. It's like you need to do the talking.
<v Speaker 4>It's like I'm not going to bring you single customer.
<v Speaker 4>And for some girls they're like I don' want to
<v Speaker 4>work here. It's like I need somebody to bring me
<v Speaker 4>the customer and then I'll do the service, but like
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to talk with him, like I don't
<v Speaker 4>know how. There is not a set so we don't
<v Speaker 4>have even like a like a price list, because every
<v Speaker 4>girl has her own prices, so they need to be
<v Speaker 4>able to negotiate the prices. They need to be able
<v Speaker 4>to negotiate the boundaries. And this is something that I
<v Speaker 4>always tell the new girls, like we are here to
<v Speaker 4>support you, but like you need to also stand up
<v Speaker 4>for yourself and you need to be able to communicate.
<v Speaker 4>And so if she if she hears this and she's like, okay, yeah,
<v Speaker 4>I can do this, then I'm like, okay, yeah, then
<v Speaker 4>you can work with us. But like if you think
<v Speaker 4>that this might not be good for you, it's like,
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to put you in position where you
<v Speaker 4>will feel like stress or something. So some of the
<v Speaker 4>girls they are like, no, I don't want to work
<v Speaker 4>with you because I just can't do this.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that makes sense, because I mean establishing boundaries can
<v Speaker 2>be difficult and it's easy to get maybe pushed into
<v Speaker 2>doing something you're not entirely comfortable with, especially if the
<v Speaker 2>client offers more money.
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, exactly, this is always what I'm telling the girls,
<v Speaker 4>and especially when they are new in the business. I'm like, look,
<v Speaker 4>a lot of people will offer you a lot of
<v Speaker 4>money for services, and like it's up to you if
<v Speaker 4>you will decide it you will do them or not,
<v Speaker 4>because like I'm not your boss, but you need to
<v Speaker 4>decide and like there might be some consequences, and like
<v Speaker 4>think about it in like long terms, so like you
<v Speaker 4>will maybe do it once, but like then you will
<v Speaker 4>not be able to work for another we so like
<v Speaker 4>think about those at least like financial consequences, or like
<v Speaker 4>think about it in like long term and try to
<v Speaker 4>figure out some like strategy.
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<v Speaker 2>for sponsoring the podcast. Okay, so let's talk about safety
<v Speaker 2>because I'm sure that this is something people are probably
<v Speaker 2>thinking about. Do you have safety measures at the clubs?
<v Speaker 2>They're like a button that they hit if they're like
<v Speaker 2>getting troubled exactly that.
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, exactly, I mean, this is one of the
<v Speaker 4>measures that we have. So the first is the reception.
<v Speaker 4>So if you are like drunk, drugged, aggressive, like the
<v Speaker 4>guys and the girls working in reception, like, they will
<v Speaker 4>not let you in. The second one is that when
<v Speaker 4>we see that you already hit enough, because like a
<v Speaker 4>lot of the people when they go to brothel, they
<v Speaker 4>think that they can do like whatever, and they like
<v Speaker 4>to drink a lot. So when we see that you
<v Speaker 4>already hit enough, we are like, maybe you should go home,
<v Speaker 4>like sleep a little bit. You can always come the
<v Speaker 4>next day because the ticket is valid for twenty four hours,
<v Speaker 4>so you can always come back. Maybe today it's not
<v Speaker 4>your day. So this is second one. And the third
<v Speaker 4>one is that the girls they all have panic button
<v Speaker 4>in the in the room, so when she presses the
<v Speaker 4>panic button, the guys in from reception they need to
<v Speaker 4>be there within eight seconds from the time when she
<v Speaker 4>press it.
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.
<v Speaker 4>And they are trained like quite regularly, so every month
<v Speaker 4>they need to go through this training. Even though they
<v Speaker 4>are with us like for many years, they still need
<v Speaker 4>to repeat it. And we also have like new people,
<v Speaker 4>so they need to learn it and they need to
<v Speaker 4>know it by hard because eight seconds it's like really
<v Speaker 4>short time. So they need to know where exactly the
<v Speaker 4>brothel room is, Like what's the shortest way? Like they
<v Speaker 4>need to communicate with us. They need to so two
<v Speaker 4>of them, they need to decide, like who's gonna go there.
<v Speaker 4>So it's like big procedure we need to that we
<v Speaker 4>need to show them like how to do.
<v Speaker 2>And is this a procedure that you as the company created, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>this is just.
<v Speaker 4>Us, Like I've never seen anybody doing the procedure the same.
<v Speaker 4>I was in Amsterdam, and like I spoke with some
<v Speaker 4>of the workers, so they are my friends and they
<v Speaker 4>work there, and I was like, so, like what will
<v Speaker 4>happen if I will press the panic button? She was like, well, maybe,
<v Speaker 4>like somebody will come in like three minutes. Maybe not.
<v Speaker 4>I was like three minutes. It's a long time because
<v Speaker 4>like we have eight seconds because like somebody told us,
<v Speaker 4>like when you strangle somebody, it takes eight seconds until
<v Speaker 4>you lose the consciousness. So like they need to be
<v Speaker 4>there that fast.
<v Speaker 3>Wow, that's crazy.
<v Speaker 2>How do you collaborate with police or government agencies? Because
<v Speaker 2>you know, brothels are illegal here in California, but in
<v Speaker 2>Nevada they are, so we have all kinds of strange
<v Speaker 2>rules against it. But brothels are not legal everywhere in
<v Speaker 2>Europe just certain I mean Amsterdam, obvious.
<v Speaker 4>It kind of depends. So we have like few things
<v Speaker 4>that we need to go through, like throughout of the years.
<v Speaker 4>So we have like hygiene inspection coming in. We have
<v Speaker 4>tax office, so we obviously need to pay taxes and
<v Speaker 4>we need to pay correct amount. Then we have the police.
<v Speaker 4>They are usually coming every two or something for a
<v Speaker 4>check up, and they speak with the girls, they speak
<v Speaker 4>with us, so that's it. Then we also need to
<v Speaker 4>follow all the rules that we need to follow, and
<v Speaker 4>so this is what we do.
<v Speaker 2>What are like some of the specific rules that you
<v Speaker 2>have in order to have a brothel.
<v Speaker 4>So we can't advertise the services, so we can't say
<v Speaker 4>like this girl will do this service for this amount
<v Speaker 4>of money, Like this is what we can't say because
<v Speaker 4>they are independent constructors, so they need to decide about
<v Speaker 4>this by themselves. I know that some of the clubs,
<v Speaker 4>they they kind of don't care about this, so they
<v Speaker 4>just have the price list on their website. But like
<v Speaker 4>we are very big and like we are really official,
<v Speaker 4>so like we want to follow the.
<v Speaker 3>Rules because you're a big target exactly.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, like since we are the biggest ones, I mean,
<v Speaker 4>you know, we can't really break the rules even though
<v Speaker 4>like we don't want to, but like.
<v Speaker 2>Can you you advertise the brothel itself weekend?
<v Speaker 4>So like this is what we can do. We also
<v Speaker 4>can't advertise that we are hiring anybody, so we can't say, hey, girls,
<v Speaker 4>we are having like those very lovely rooms, come to
<v Speaker 4>work with us. We can't do that either. We can't
<v Speaker 4>advertise the brothel itself, like guys, you can come here
<v Speaker 4>have a good time, but we can't say like what
<v Speaker 4>specific time they will have.
<v Speaker 2>What about testing? What's your take on mandatory STI testing
<v Speaker 2>in the US versus Europe?
<v Speaker 4>So I heard it in the US it's seven days.
<v Speaker 3>It depends. Yeah, yeah, it depends, so I think.
<v Speaker 2>And I haven't directed in like two and a half years,
<v Speaker 2>but it used to be thirty days, like that's like
<v Speaker 2>a while ago. And then it turned to and this
<v Speaker 2>is all self regulated, right, like the industry is a
<v Speaker 2>collective kind of decided upon this. It's two weeks, fourteen
<v Speaker 2>days now, I believe, I believe it's but certain girls
<v Speaker 2>can request shorter time periods. Certain girls can be like
<v Speaker 2>certain girls be like I want a one day test. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>you know, you have to test a day before I
<v Speaker 2>work with you. And that's entirely to them.
<v Speaker 4>So in Europe it kind of depends on the state.
<v Speaker 4>So some states they don't regulate this at all, like
<v Speaker 4>it's up to the worker to go to get tested
<v Speaker 4>or like not to get tested. This is on her
<v Speaker 4>because the condoms are always mandatory. So like technically like
<v Speaker 4>they like the test like shouldn't even be a thing
<v Speaker 4>in some places. But in so for example, in Austria,
<v Speaker 4>there is eight weeks that the testing period, so like
<v Speaker 4>every eight weeks the sex workers they need to go
<v Speaker 4>to get tested. And what happened in Austria is that
<v Speaker 4>the managers of those clubs they kind of decided that
<v Speaker 4>they are healthy, so they should provide like oral sex
<v Speaker 4>without a condom because this is what the clients ones,
<v Speaker 4>and so the girls because they are healthy, and it
<v Speaker 4>kind of provides you this like like false false feeling
<v Speaker 4>of safety. This is what kind of led to managers
<v Speaker 4>to push some women to do this, And like, I
<v Speaker 4>don't think it's great because like you should decide about
<v Speaker 4>your own body. So it kind of depends like how
<v Speaker 4>are you going to approach it. It's like it can be
<v Speaker 4>a good thing, it can be like absolutely shitty thing.
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever had this situation where like a girl
<v Speaker 2>has not used condoms or you know, has has a
<v Speaker 2>certain client that pays extra for not using condoms and
<v Speaker 2>then you find out, I mean, is there any way
<v Speaker 2>you can enforce that?
<v Speaker 4>So since they are independent contractors, Like I don't really
<v Speaker 4>know what is going on in side of that room
<v Speaker 4>unless she told me. So I know that some of
<v Speaker 4>the girls they are offering extra, which is like or
<v Speaker 4>without a condom. This is like the the most common
<v Speaker 4>extra and I think it's like everywhere in Europe. So
<v Speaker 4>some of the girls they do this, they choose the
<v Speaker 4>clients like with whom they will do it, but like
<v Speaker 4>sex without a condom, I don't think like I've ever
<v Speaker 4>heard this, because like they know it's their safety, it's
<v Speaker 4>their body, and like they don't want to risk it
<v Speaker 4>for any amount of money and just to give you
<v Speaker 4>like the context, Like the best earning women that works
<v Speaker 4>with us, they make around like fifty thousand dollars a month,
<v Speaker 4>so like they are not willing to risk it for
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.
<v Speaker 2>So the women who make who are the most popular
<v Speaker 2>and make the most amount of money at your club,
<v Speaker 2>What are some common like traits that you see in them?
<v Speaker 2>Like what makes a girl like a really great as
<v Speaker 2>we call in person sex worker.
<v Speaker 4>So a lot of the people they think that it's
<v Speaker 4>just because of the way how she looks, but that's
<v Speaker 4>definitely not that. Like those women, they are like really
<v Speaker 4>hard working workers. They usually work like six or five
<v Speaker 4>days a week, like twelve hours, just like they are
<v Speaker 4>really like determined to earn a lot of money. And
<v Speaker 4>they usually stay in the industry for like five six years,
<v Speaker 4>and they like I'm all set up, like I don't
<v Speaker 4>need to work, And they have like a really big
<v Speaker 4>like clientele base, so they have like a lot of regulars.
<v Speaker 4>It's not even about the services. It's mostly like how
<v Speaker 4>good you can be with people, And that's like the
<v Speaker 4>most common trade. I would say, like being empathetic and
<v Speaker 4>like know how to speak with people and like be
<v Speaker 4>a really good salesperson because like you need to you
<v Speaker 4>need to pursue them, like to spend a lot of
<v Speaker 4>money with you. And like once the guy is in
<v Speaker 4>the room, they're like, he's not leaving until he will
<v Speaker 4>buy me a lot of money. And they know how
<v Speaker 4>to do this, and they know how to do this,
<v Speaker 4>and like the guy, he doesn't pressured, like he feels
<v Speaker 4>like I had a really good time.
<v Speaker 2>My wallet's much lighter.
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, I mean I enjoyed it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So what are the biggest misconceptions about brothels or
<v Speaker 2>the women who work in it that you can.
<v Speaker 4>There's so many. So like a lot of the people
<v Speaker 4>they think that sex workers are like some miserable human beings,
<v Speaker 4>like this is their last resort and like they come
<v Speaker 4>to displace because they like rationally decided that this is
<v Speaker 4>the best possible way, like how to earn money or
<v Speaker 4>like to have fun. Because like a lot of the
<v Speaker 4>people they kind of assume that, like sex workers are
<v Speaker 4>there just to get the money. And that's correct. I mean,
<v Speaker 4>like you can't ignore the monetary aspect, Like if you
<v Speaker 4>are making like fifty thousand dollars the money you can be.
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, whatever, all of us get Yeah, I mean
<v Speaker 2>all of us work for money, right, and if you
<v Speaker 2>can find a position that hays you more here usually
<v Speaker 2>get take it as long as what you do falls
<v Speaker 2>in line with what you're comfortable with exactly.
<v Speaker 4>But like a lot of the girls, they are coming
<v Speaker 4>to the industry and they're like, look, I love the nightlife.
<v Speaker 4>I like to get the attention from the guys. I
<v Speaker 4>mean I would do this probably for free. So like
<v Speaker 4>why I should have like a bad sex for free
<v Speaker 4>when I can take money for the same thing. And
<v Speaker 4>a lot of the girls they have this like some
<v Speaker 4>sort of like adventures. So some of them they are
<v Speaker 4>married and like the guy that is their husband, like
<v Speaker 4>they have no idea.
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, where do they think they go?
<v Speaker 4>Well, usually they say that they either work at the
<v Speaker 4>bar or they are like private babysitters and they work
<v Speaker 4>during the night, and like the guy had no idea exactly.
<v Speaker 4>I mean sometimes sometimes it's very close to babysitting.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Wow.
<v Speaker 4>Like the husbands, they have like no idea and like
<v Speaker 4>they have all the tricks like how to how to
<v Speaker 4>hide it, and they just basically have this like as
<v Speaker 4>a huge adventure and then like after six am, they
<v Speaker 4>just go back to their husband and they like live
<v Speaker 4>the normal life. Right. A lot of the people they
<v Speaker 4>think that, like the sex workers, they are like desperate
<v Speaker 4>and like they didn't have like any other choices. But
<v Speaker 4>the truth is at least like what I see, so
<v Speaker 4>like I only see like small part of the industry,
<v Speaker 4>and like we are talking about like indoor voluntary sex work,
<v Speaker 4>like we are not talking about sex trafficking. So a
<v Speaker 4>lot of the people they think that sex workers they
<v Speaker 4>don't have any other choices, but like this is something
<v Speaker 4>that I don't see because like most of the women
<v Speaker 4>they have different choices, like they used to work in
<v Speaker 4>different like industries like retail or like sales or something.
<v Speaker 4>But they were like I have enough. It's like I
<v Speaker 4>can't do this anymore. It's like the money isn't worthy.
<v Speaker 4>Like maybe I will just try this. And like one
<v Speaker 4>of my really good friends from the industry, she's a lawyer.
<v Speaker 4>She speaks six languages, and like she's still in the
<v Speaker 4>industry because she's like, I mean makes sense, like financially,
<v Speaker 4>it makes sense.
<v Speaker 2>So how do women describe the empowerment that they feel
<v Speaker 2>in this line of work, because obviously you talk to
<v Speaker 2>these girls on like a day to day basis.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well they don't describe it as empowerment, Like they
<v Speaker 4>don't use this word, but like usually what I hear
<v Speaker 4>it's like I like to get the attention. I mean
<v Speaker 4>I feel like really powerful with the money because like
<v Speaker 4>now they are in this place where they can like
<v Speaker 4>afford everything, and like it's like nothing, it's it's a
<v Speaker 4>problem for them. So they can buy the houses, they
<v Speaker 4>can invest in properties, they can travel, they can do
<v Speaker 4>like whatever they want. So like this gives them like
<v Speaker 4>the sense of like I earned this. I mean, this
<v Speaker 4>is what died it, Like I'm not depending on anyone. Also,
<v Speaker 4>like the attention of the guys and the fact that
<v Speaker 4>like they are their own boss. So usually when they
<v Speaker 4>decide to quit the industry and they want to go
<v Speaker 4>to like normal job and all of this and they
<v Speaker 4>have the boss. I often see them coming back to
<v Speaker 4>the industry and they're like I don't need the money anymore,
<v Speaker 4>but like I don't want to be like anybody is
<v Speaker 4>supporting it. It's like I felt like shit, Like they
<v Speaker 4>treat me like shit. So like this sense of like
<v Speaker 4>this is me. I'm deciding about my buddy, about my services,
<v Speaker 4>about my own money, Like this gives them like the pleasure.
<v Speaker 2>To just like the financial freedom and the ability to
<v Speaker 2>be independent and all. I mean it's the same.
<v Speaker 4>I mean also the attention. So like a lot of
<v Speaker 4>them like you can I.
<v Speaker 2>Be somebody who likes me al attention to do this job?
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>Sure, Yeah. So what's the most surprising client request you've seen?
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know you've seen like a lot, but
<v Speaker 2>there's has there ever been anything where Loide the pizza guy,
<v Speaker 2>the pizza guy is the most surprised.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I love the guy who came in and
<v Speaker 4>he was dressed as a polar bear. So he had
<v Speaker 4>this huge polar bear go and we were like, what
<v Speaker 4>is going on here? And he was like, yeah, well
<v Speaker 4>it's my fantasy. And like we have this procedure when
<v Speaker 4>you are entering the club, you need we need to
<v Speaker 4>see your face.
<v Speaker 2>So we were like just walking as a polar bear
<v Speaker 2>and skate on pap no.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we need it, like him to take off
<v Speaker 4>the head so we can like see his face. Because
<v Speaker 4>we have also like a blacklist of the people that
<v Speaker 4>are like blacklist states, so we need to make sure
<v Speaker 4>that he's not on that list. So and also because
<v Speaker 4>of the CCTV, so he needed to take it off
<v Speaker 4>and he was like, yeah, well this is like my
<v Speaker 4>fantasy is like I want to play like a polar
<v Speaker 4>bear costume fantasy, like she will be the one who's
<v Speaker 4>going to haunt me and like at the end, like
<v Speaker 4>she will haunt me and like we will have sex.
<v Speaker 4>That is okay, Like why not?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>I think we call that furriese here, like people who
<v Speaker 2>like to dress up as animals.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but this was like specifically the polar bear. Yeah,
<v Speaker 4>it wasn't like I know the furries, but this was
<v Speaker 4>like specifically like him being a polar bear in like
<v Speaker 4>the polar circle and like she needs to hunt him.
<v Speaker 4>So there was this aspect of like power play and
<v Speaker 4>I actually loved it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so interesting. I wonder why polar bear specifically.
<v Speaker 2>He must have had some kind of fascination with polar
<v Speaker 2>bears growing up or something like that.
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, or maybe he just had a like
<v Speaker 4>spara costume and he managed to create this fantasy around it.
<v Speaker 2>Is it a good costume?
<v Speaker 4>It was nice? I mean I have pictures and it
<v Speaker 4>was like nice because we obviously took a picture of him.
<v Speaker 3>Does he have sex? With the costume still on.
<v Speaker 4>I don't. I don't think that would be possible. I
<v Speaker 4>think like at some point he needed to at least like.
<v Speaker 3>Lower the like unless he's a special hole. Maybe he's
<v Speaker 3>a flat I don't know.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I don't know. I didn't ask it. Maybe
<v Speaker 4>I should.
<v Speaker 2>I'm so curious to know if he like stays in
<v Speaker 2>the costume, because I mean, you know, like mascot costumes
<v Speaker 2>that they smell because people look sweat them, and I
<v Speaker 2>mean I can't, but like some people they like it
<v Speaker 2>so to each their own.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean I love to see this. I mean
<v Speaker 4>I love to see people getting creative about like the
<v Speaker 4>sexuality and like this is specifically what I love about
<v Speaker 4>like working in brothel because you can see like a
<v Speaker 4>lot of fantasies and like you can't like you don't
<v Speaker 4>need to like identify with anything, so like the brothel
<v Speaker 4>is usually like a playground where you can like try
<v Speaker 4>different things. Like we have the pressure of like identify yourself,
<v Speaker 4>like okay, are you straight or like are you into BDSM.
<v Speaker 4>It's like this this like Western obsession with like identify
<v Speaker 4>identifying ourselves so we can be like readable for others,
<v Speaker 4>Like you don't need to do this in brothel. It's
<v Speaker 4>like you can go there and be like, okay, I
<v Speaker 4>want you to fuck me in like this, this and this,
<v Speaker 4>and I want to wear like a polar bear costume,
<v Speaker 4>and like you don't need to confess to anything. You
<v Speaker 4>don't need to be like okay, well, like, guys, I'm
<v Speaker 4>in two this please No, you can just like try
<v Speaker 4>it and then you will see.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it sounds like a wonderful place of
<v Speaker 2>non judgment. Yeah, yeah, experiment. Because sex is multifaceted. There's
<v Speaker 2>a lot of different ways that you can enjoy sex,
<v Speaker 2>and being polar bears one of them exactly.
<v Speaker 4>And even though like the sex it's not involved, I
<v Speaker 4>still like that people like to get creative and like
<v Speaker 4>even though you're like okay, but like she didn't have
<v Speaker 4>sex with him, but it was still a service. And
<v Speaker 4>it doesn't matter if it's like dynamic play or if
<v Speaker 4>it's just talking. A lot of the guys they actually
<v Speaker 4>come to brothel just to talk. So sometimes the girls
<v Speaker 4>say like, like I feel like a therapist. Yeah, Like
<v Speaker 4>a lot of the guys they are like, listen, I
<v Speaker 4>have this problem with my wife, Like can you please
<v Speaker 4>maybe help me with the girls, Like, I.
<v Speaker 2>Mean they charge them for that, right, Yeah, they do.
<v Speaker 2>They have a rate for they charge my therapy rate.
<v Speaker 4>Charge a lot for this actually because like sometimes the
<v Speaker 4>guys they can go like three four hours, and it's
<v Speaker 4>like it's a lot of emotional labor.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and like this is something that a lot.
<v Speaker 4>Of the people they actually don't don't know about the
<v Speaker 4>sex worker as well. It's like it's emotional labor. So
<v Speaker 4>a lot of the time you actually spent talking, you
<v Speaker 4>spent like comforting each other or like you spent talking
<v Speaker 4>about the boundaries or like something. But it's not just
<v Speaker 4>about sex. Yeah, mostly it's actually not.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I heard that from a lot of
<v Speaker 2>girls who escort, you know, and that most of the
<v Speaker 2>date is talking and the sex might be like five
<v Speaker 2>you know exactly, but like it's a four or five
<v Speaker 2>hour date exactly. And I think that there's something about
<v Speaker 2>sex workers where men can really feel not judged because
<v Speaker 2>so many people, especially in this country, grow up with
<v Speaker 2>such a sense of shame around sex, you know, when
<v Speaker 2>they were raised in a family where sex is bad,
<v Speaker 2>you don't talk about its taboo, And so when you
<v Speaker 2>have these desires that you want to act upon like
<v Speaker 2>any woman that you would meet in a bar. Like,
<v Speaker 2>you know, if this guy went to a bar and
<v Speaker 2>met some girl and took her home, was like, hey,
<v Speaker 2>do you mind if I wear a polar bear costume?
<v Speaker 2>She would probably be like, oh, I'm getting that, you
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean? And that is the one place
<v Speaker 2>where you know you're really not judged. It's it's kind
<v Speaker 2>of a very freeing thing about it. So you've said
<v Speaker 2>that American men are often the best customers.
<v Speaker 4>Why is that because they are not so used to
<v Speaker 4>seeing sex workers and so they are like super polite.
<v Speaker 4>Usually they are like they need to get themselves like
<v Speaker 4>a little bit wrong because they are like not used
<v Speaker 4>to it. Yeah, so like with us, Yeah, like with us,
<v Speaker 4>like walking in the city and like you see the brothels,
<v Speaker 4>it's like they are part of the city. So like
<v Speaker 4>for you, like for the Europeans, it feels like normal
<v Speaker 4>to be around brothels and at least like you know
<v Speaker 4>about them and like you probably have some friends and
<v Speaker 4>they want to want so like you know, it's a
<v Speaker 4>thing and you know like how to behave at least,
<v Speaker 4>But like Americans, like they don't know what to expect
<v Speaker 4>to they're like can I please? And can I? And
<v Speaker 4>I think it's really nice because like when you are
<v Speaker 4>asking the sex workers like please, can I do this?
<v Speaker 4>I think it actually shows like respect. And so some
<v Speaker 4>of the workers they like really like to work with
<v Speaker 4>Americans because like they are really respectful because like they
<v Speaker 4>are a little bit scared, and they also don't have
<v Speaker 4>like the bad heabas because like sometimes the guys when
<v Speaker 4>they are a regulars, they're like, yeah, well, maybe like
<v Speaker 4>I can I can push the boundary a little bit more.
<v Speaker 4>It's like I can negotiate, like I can handle like
<v Speaker 4>Americans like they don't do.
<v Speaker 3>This, yeah, because they're not coming in all the time.
<v Speaker 2>I can definitely see it, how I mean, you know
<v Speaker 2>I see this on only fans. I'm sure you probably
<v Speaker 2>do too. Like I've spent a lot of money on
<v Speaker 2>you can I get scared, So I can definitely see
<v Speaker 2>that happening for sure. How do European clients differ from
<v Speaker 2>American ones just in that sense or anything I would say?
<v Speaker 4>And maybe this is just like my impression, but like
<v Speaker 4>the guys from Europe, they are like not so uptight
<v Speaker 4>about it. Like for them, it's like it's like a
<v Speaker 4>normal experience to go to brothel, whereas like the Americans
<v Speaker 4>say like, oh my god, I went to the brothel.
<v Speaker 4>It's something. I mean, it's like one of the biggest
<v Speaker 4>experiences in my life. And like the European guys are
<v Speaker 4>like more chilled. Maybe they just go to the berthel
<v Speaker 4>and they don't even engage with the sex workers. So
<v Speaker 4>it's just like the place where they can like to
<v Speaker 4>hang out. But Americans, when they are in a brothel,
<v Speaker 4>they need to try a lot of things, and they're like,
<v Speaker 4>just take the picture of me. It's like I am here.
<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm gonna tell all my friends about this,
<v Speaker 4>whereas like for us, it's like yeah, I mean, as
<v Speaker 4>you said, like for us, it's a normal thing. I
<v Speaker 4>mean we are surrounded by it. Like also the sex
<v Speaker 4>culture is different in Europe, but like here in America,
<v Speaker 4>it's like a big thing to go to the brothels. Yeah,
<v Speaker 4>they're like, oh my god, I need to try everything
<v Speaker 4>and those kind of stuff.
<v Speaker 3>So what about female clients, do you have many of those?
<v Speaker 4>Not many, We do have some. So some of the
<v Speaker 4>girls they come to the brothel and these are like
<v Speaker 4>usually the girls are like maybe I want to try
<v Speaker 4>something I'm not quite sure. I'm like I was always
<v Speaker 4>curious about this, and I want to do this in
<v Speaker 4>a safe environment. Not every sex worker, though, works with
<v Speaker 4>female clients, so for them it's like something different and
<v Speaker 4>it kind of it's not part of their routine, so
<v Speaker 4>they are like not used to it. So some of
<v Speaker 4>them they're like no, I just like don't want to
<v Speaker 4>do this, which is like fine. We actually had one
<v Speaker 4>and it was really cool. So we had actually one
<v Speaker 4>group of the girls and they came in and they
<v Speaker 4>were like from I guess like Middle East or something.
<v Speaker 4>They looked like princess, like Arabic princes, and they actually
<v Speaker 4>sit down and they were like, this is part of
<v Speaker 4>our culture. So when we are like starting with the
<v Speaker 4>sex sex life, we need to be initiated by somebody
<v Speaker 4>who like is more experienced. So they actually sit down
<v Speaker 4>and they went they went to the room with the
<v Speaker 4>girls and they were just asking about the things. It's like, okay,
<v Speaker 4>so like what I should do, if what I should
<v Speaker 4>do one? So I think this is cool.
<v Speaker 2>Well they just had like a class. Oh yeah, it's
<v Speaker 2>like a workshop. Yeah, exactly, so interesting.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Wow, So do you actually have any men that ever
<v Speaker 2>went after why.
<v Speaker 4>Would you love them working there? But no, we only
<v Speaker 4>have girls, you like, no boys. No, we are like
<v Speaker 4>pretty open to everyone. So we used to have like
<v Speaker 4>few trans people in a past, but we never had boys,
<v Speaker 4>and I think it's a shame. But they have their
<v Speaker 4>own places and like we are very like atterosexual place
<v Speaker 4>for them, it's it's not a good place to make money.
<v Speaker 4>And as for like the girls as a clients to
<v Speaker 4>do the male sex workers, like girls, they don't usually
<v Speaker 4>want to pay for.
<v Speaker 3>This service because they can usually get it for free.
<v Speaker 4>Exactly like I think it's like so if I had
<v Speaker 4>the opportunity, like I would definitely like to try it,
<v Speaker 4>because I think it's like much more safer than like
<v Speaker 4>go to the bar and like pick up some random guy.
<v Speaker 4>You don't know who the person is. It's like you
<v Speaker 4>don't know what is going to happen, and like he's
<v Speaker 4>definitely not there to make you feel good. I mean
<v Speaker 4>he's there to make him feel good.
<v Speaker 2>So wow, this is sort of like a little bit
<v Speaker 2>off topic, but this is like the one place where
<v Speaker 2>I feel I can I can fit in this interesting
<v Speaker 2>piece of information because it's blew my mind. So there
<v Speaker 2>was like a friend of the family that I was
<v Speaker 2>talking to who wanted to have a kid. And she's single,
<v Speaker 2>and so, you know, I assume she doing vitro like
<v Speaker 2>most single women do, and so I was talking to
<v Speaker 2>her about it. You know, it's very expensive. We're you
<v Speaker 2>gonna go for the procedure, and she's like, oh, no, no, no,
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting impregnated like by a man naturally. And I
<v Speaker 2>was like, well, what do you mean. So there is
<v Speaker 2>like a group and I don't want to say the
<v Speaker 2>name of it because I don't want to call it out,
<v Speaker 2>but apparently there's this group on Facebook I think is
<v Speaker 2>where she found them, where you can literally go and
<v Speaker 2>pay a man to impregnate you with the child.
<v Speaker 4>Okay, how much you need to pay, I.
<v Speaker 2>Don't know, but it's a lot less than vuture, I'll
<v Speaker 2>tell you that, Okay, Yeah, and fature will be like
<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand.
<v Speaker 3>Dollars, Like hundred thousand dollars.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I know people who've spent that much because they've
<v Speaker 2>had to do it time because it didn't work. With this,
<v Speaker 2>you just keep this kind of makes sense, I mean,
<v Speaker 2>like way cheaper.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, buss, you have the sex, which is a good thing.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I just never I was like, that is nuts,
<v Speaker 2>but yeah.
<v Speaker 3>That's a thing.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean it kind of makes sense.
<v Speaker 2>It does make sense, right, I mean if you can't
<v Speaker 2>afford in beat your fertilization, which most people can anyways,
<v Speaker 2>I just like, yeah, they just felt like I just
<v Speaker 2>slide that little piece of information in there. Can you
<v Speaker 2>break down the key differences between European clubs and Nevada brothels?
<v Speaker 2>Have you been to the brothels? Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I visited four of them. It's completely different. I
<v Speaker 4>mean just the location, so they are like in such
<v Speaker 4>a remote locations. Like the rules that the girls need
<v Speaker 4>to follow, I mean the places itself. It were like
<v Speaker 4>they were nice, but like the rules that they need
<v Speaker 4>to follow. I was like, this is like a little
<v Speaker 4>bit steep, because like they need to be on the side,
<v Speaker 4>Like they can't leave. So when they are working, they
<v Speaker 4>need to work. Like the brothel they take the fifty
<v Speaker 4>percent of them, plus they on top of that they
<v Speaker 4>pay the rent as well. So but the rent was
<v Speaker 4>like sixty dollars or like I think it was like
<v Speaker 4>around one hundred dollars or something. I don't I don't know. So,
<v Speaker 4>but so they need to pay the rent, they need
<v Speaker 4>to pay the percentages and like they can't leave. And
<v Speaker 4>this is something that really like stuck with me because
<v Speaker 4>like imagine that like somebody tells you, okay, you can work,
<v Speaker 4>but like there's basically like no autonomy, like you need
<v Speaker 4>to stay there, like we will police you and like
<v Speaker 4>we will check you, and like okay. The prices in
<v Speaker 4>Nevada were like definitely higher. I mean it started with
<v Speaker 4>like thousands, Like one thousand I think was the was
<v Speaker 4>the base. You will not see this in Europe mostly,
<v Speaker 4>so like Europe is like fairly cheap when you compare
<v Speaker 4>this to to Nevada.
<v Speaker 2>So what's like maybe an aver if I just want
<v Speaker 2>to straight up regular missionary boy girl sex.
<v Speaker 4>I would say for for half an hour, it's like
<v Speaker 4>one hundred and fifty.
<v Speaker 2>Euros, Okay, so it's like I think that's six six Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Now, last time I checked it was
<v Speaker 2>like not exactly double, but that was a while ago.
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, I guess it's like two hundred dollars and
<v Speaker 4>like you're good. Yeah, I think that this gives you
<v Speaker 4>nowhere in America, so like nobody will ever even talk
<v Speaker 4>with you for like two hundred dollars. So the girls
<v Speaker 4>they are like making like less amount of the customer
<v Speaker 4>throughout the day, but I guess like the money and
<v Speaker 4>also like they need to pay the taxes, and like
<v Speaker 4>here the taxes are like much more bigger because like
<v Speaker 4>everything goes through the club like very officially. Yeah, so
<v Speaker 4>the club they know like how much they are making,
<v Speaker 4>whereas like with us, a lot of the girls they
<v Speaker 4>just don't pay the taxis. Like they pay some sort
<v Speaker 4>of taxes, but like don't pay the taxis in fully
<v Speaker 4>because like nobody knows how much they are making. So
<v Speaker 4>they're like I was just declared like the absolute minimum.
<v Speaker 2>So it's usually a cash business. Oh yeah, they don't
<v Speaker 2>take it out benmo or paf.
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, like the papal or like rehold or something.
<v Speaker 4>They are very exactly so like mostly they just take
<v Speaker 4>the cash. Some of the girls they to like bitcoins
<v Speaker 4>in a past, but like.
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming you have an ATM machine on insite, Oh.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah we do. And like most of the guys, they
<v Speaker 4>also like to use cash because it leaves no tracy.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes that makes sense from your perspective as a psychologist.
<v Speaker 2>What role does shameplay and how society sees sex work,
<v Speaker 2>And do you see a huge distinction between America and Europe?
<v Speaker 3>May I know the answer to that, I'm just gonna
<v Speaker 3>ask anything.
<v Speaker 4>Well, I see like a huge difference between like America
<v Speaker 4>and Europe. But like still overall people are like so
<v Speaker 4>anxious about sex life and like sexuality, So we need
<v Speaker 4>to confess about our sexuality. Like we are constantly checking
<v Speaker 4>whether we are having like a lot of sex with
<v Speaker 4>we are having like less sex than usual, like if
<v Speaker 4>we should do this in like most normal way, Like
<v Speaker 4>we are constantly like checking ourselves like if the sex
<v Speaker 4>we are having is normal. And I just really don't
<v Speaker 4>like this like western perspective, So like sex should be
<v Speaker 4>something that it's like, it's like joyful, it gives you
<v Speaker 4>pleasure and like as long as like everybody consent, and
<v Speaker 4>like you're doing this because you want to and the
<v Speaker 4>person or like the people around you who are like
<v Speaker 4>you know, doing this with you, who are there like
<v Speaker 4>willingly and they want to do this with you as well,
<v Speaker 4>Like you should not feel anxious whether you are doing
<v Speaker 4>something like not appropriate.
<v Speaker 2>So if a man's going to come to the brothel
<v Speaker 2>and you know, try it out, what would you tell
<v Speaker 2>them that maybe they should do beforehand. Is there any
<v Speaker 2>advice that you give for guys.
<v Speaker 4>Well, definitely be respectful towards the sex workers. So some
<v Speaker 4>of the guys they kind of assume that when they
<v Speaker 4>pay for the self, they pay for the for the
<v Speaker 4>whole person. So it's not that case. So like the girls,
<v Speaker 4>they always can say no, like I'm not going to
<v Speaker 4>do this, and it's there right. So I always tell
<v Speaker 4>the guys like respect like what they say, and like
<v Speaker 4>don't do anything like she doesn't want you to do
<v Speaker 4>ask her first, because like a lot of the guys
<v Speaker 4>they kind of assume that like everything is okay, like
<v Speaker 4>I can do this, I can do that, and they're like, no,
<v Speaker 4>this is like this, this is not it. And like
<v Speaker 4>also like don't get themselves drunk because like a lot
<v Speaker 4>of the guys they are like they are maybe nervous,
<v Speaker 4>or they like to party, or they may be like
<v Speaker 4>to take drugs or a lot of the guys are
<v Speaker 4>thinking that taking viagra it's a good idea, but like
<v Speaker 4>usually when they are taking the viagra, it's not because
<v Speaker 4>like they have this viagra prescribed, but they just found
<v Speaker 4>it somewhere. Like the friends gave them to to the
<v Speaker 4>friends gave the viagra to them, so and then they
<v Speaker 4>take it and like they don't know what is going
<v Speaker 4>to happen. And like once we actually needed to call
<v Speaker 4>an ambulance because one guy, he was like seventy years
<v Speaker 4>old or something, he took the viagra and like his
<v Speaker 4>heart just like they didn't almost make it. So we
<v Speaker 4>needed to call an ambulance. And like his son was
<v Speaker 4>there and I was like what did he take and
<v Speaker 4>he was like I don't know, I don't know. And
<v Speaker 4>then he was like, yeah, well he took viagra. And
<v Speaker 4>I was like, but you know, you can't take this
<v Speaker 4>unless it's prescribed. And then he was like drinking. So
<v Speaker 4>we needed to call an ambulance and like luckily they
<v Speaker 4>saved him. But like a lot of the guys, they
<v Speaker 4>think that this is a place like where they need
<v Speaker 4>to show up and.
<v Speaker 2>Like and show off and show off.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah yeah wow.
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine dying of a heart attack and a
<v Speaker 2>brothel because you took too much viagra and your son
<v Speaker 2>is there and your son is there, do you see
<v Speaker 2>a lot of like families come in sometimes like father's son,
<v Speaker 2>sometimes mother daughter.
<v Speaker 4>I mean we have a mother and daughter working together.
<v Speaker 4>Oh so that's like there was like a little bit unusual.
<v Speaker 4>I mean I got used to it over the years.
<v Speaker 4>But like they also sometimes take the guys like to
<v Speaker 4>the room to you know, do the service, like both
<v Speaker 4>of them, which like for me, when I picture myself
<v Speaker 4>with my mother.
<v Speaker 2>Like please no. Yeah, I feel like that's the case
<v Speaker 2>for most of us. But yeah, but like we.
<v Speaker 4>Like recently we had a guy and he's quadriplegic.
<v Speaker 2>Quadriplegic, yeah, quadruplegic.
<v Speaker 4>And his parents they actually take him to Russel quite regularly.
<v Speaker 4>So I think this is nice and they are like
<v Speaker 4>suctual love the people and the guy. He's also very nice.
<v Speaker 3>You know.
<v Speaker 2>That reminds me of this one time I we were
<v Speaker 2>talking about sex work and we were talking about, you know,
<v Speaker 2>how it should be legal and how people shouldn't be
<v Speaker 2>shamed for hiring sex workers. And I actually had a
<v Speaker 2>Patreon member who wrote me an email that I never forgot,
<v Speaker 2>and he said, you know, he thanked me for the
<v Speaker 2>interview and for the perspective, and he said, you know,
<v Speaker 2>the thing is is that people don't really ever think
<v Speaker 2>about those of us who really can't.
<v Speaker 3>Experience intimacy with a woman in an easy way.
<v Speaker 2>He was in a wheelchair, and you know, people say, oh,
<v Speaker 2>go out there and get a real girlfriend. He's like,
<v Speaker 2>that is like very difficulty. You think I can go
<v Speaker 2>to the barn, a girl's going to go home with me?
<v Speaker 2>Like most women don't want to have sex with me
<v Speaker 2>because I'm in a wheelchair, and so should I be
<v Speaker 2>denied that human touch, you know, that experience because I'm
<v Speaker 2>you know, crippled and going and seeing a sex worker
<v Speaker 2>who is providing a service. You know, He's like it
<v Speaker 2>it feel It makes me feel like loved and it
<v Speaker 2>makes me feel so much better. And he said, you know,
<v Speaker 2>these these sex workers, like I know that they care
<v Speaker 2>about me, you know, in a way that like your
<v Speaker 2>therapist cares about you when you see they're not gonna,
<v Speaker 2>you know, ye move in with you, but they do
<v Speaker 2>care about you. And Yeah, I just thought that it
<v Speaker 2>was a perspective I'd never thought about, you know, because
<v Speaker 2>you don't think about the men who you know, really
<v Speaker 2>struggle to connect with women, and that there's a lot
<v Speaker 2>of them out there. You don't even have to be handicapped. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>for that to happen exactly.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we have quite a lot of guys and
<v Speaker 4>they are coming in and they are like, they don't
<v Speaker 4>identify themselves as an in cel, like in voluntary celibate,
<v Speaker 4>but they are like, I can't get like anyone to
<v Speaker 4>get to like me enough so they can have like
<v Speaker 4>sex with me, So they just come to the brothel.
<v Speaker 4>And I think it's like it's a good decision actually,
<v Speaker 4>like instead of like hating girls for like not choosing
<v Speaker 4>him or something, you just be like, okay, yeah, I
<v Speaker 4>just pay for the service.
<v Speaker 2>And and I mean that can also be a comp
<v Speaker 2>and s builed her too.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>You know, like the more you do something, the more
<v Speaker 2>comfortable you become with it, and then maybe you feel
<v Speaker 2>more comfortable with women. But if you're not like having
<v Speaker 2>any experiences with women at all, then you become more
<v Speaker 2>and more isolated.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and also the girls they can like really feel it,
<v Speaker 4>so sometimes they do like this confidence boost. So they
<v Speaker 4>told this guy like, oh my god, you are the
<v Speaker 4>best one. I was like, oh, yeah, thank you. And
<v Speaker 4>they actually believe this.
<v Speaker 2>So I remember Alice Little came on and she talked
<v Speaker 2>about how she oh she's amazing, Yeah, she's amazing. She
<v Speaker 2>talks about how she works with a lot of like
<v Speaker 2>autistic guys and how you know they have very each
<v Speaker 2>one has a very specific you know need, like because
<v Speaker 2>there are sensory you have sensory issues. You know, some
<v Speaker 2>of them want to be touched really hard or touch soft,
<v Speaker 2>and you know you have to know like how to
<v Speaker 2>you know, touch them and in a way that works
<v Speaker 2>for them, and how to.
<v Speaker 4>Work with them because it's it's work. So this is
<v Speaker 4>like mostly when people think about sex work, they don't
<v Speaker 4>think think about you need to actually have these people
<v Speaker 4>skill and it's like a huge part of the job.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree, what do you want the general public
<v Speaker 2>to understand the most about sex work?
<v Speaker 4>I would really love to see sex work being like decriminalized,
<v Speaker 4>and not only sex work, but also the third parties
<v Speaker 4>as a like a brothels and those kind of like
<v Speaker 4>supportive structures because when you say to the workers, okay,
<v Speaker 4>only you can do sex work, but like you can't
<v Speaker 4>hire anyone for your own safety, you need to make
<v Speaker 4>sure that there will be nobody around you helping, like
<v Speaker 4>in any way and like being for example, being an
<v Speaker 4>independent escort, it takes a lot of energy and time,
<v Speaker 4>so you need to find a place where you will
<v Speaker 4>do it. You need to do all the laundry, you
<v Speaker 4>need to do all the texting with the people, you
<v Speaker 4>need to do the scheduling, and then on top of this,
<v Speaker 4>you need to do the actual work and plus the security.
<v Speaker 2>So you need to be you need to make sure
<v Speaker 2>you got a safe background checks that, yeah exactly. So
<v Speaker 2>many women who have all these different ways that they
<v Speaker 2>try to vet a customer, but like, you never you
<v Speaker 2>can never be one hundred percent sure, right.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah exactly, and like you should be able to hire
<v Speaker 4>somebody who will do this for you. So when you
<v Speaker 4>say like, okay, you can do sex work, but like
<v Speaker 4>you can't do anything to make you safer in this work,
<v Speaker 4>like that's a little bit fucked up.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the last thing I want to
<v Speaker 2>ask you about is your Instagram, Okay, because obviously that's
<v Speaker 2>where I found you, and I know you have a
<v Speaker 2>lot of followers. What give you the idea to start that?
<v Speaker 2>And when did you really start to see it pick
<v Speaker 2>up and realize like, oh I have an audience for this.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Well it was very randal So like after like
<v Speaker 4>eighty years in the company, like I felt like a
<v Speaker 4>little bit burned out. So I was like everything is
<v Speaker 4>the same. And then like I also struggled, and I
<v Speaker 4>think that this is something that like all people in
<v Speaker 4>academia kind of struggle with. So you do the research,
<v Speaker 4>you spend enormous time doing it, and then like you've
<v Speaker 4>published the article and then like ten people read it
<v Speaker 4>and like that's all you know, and like probably two
<v Speaker 4>of those ten people are your parents, say like that's it.
<v Speaker 4>So I felt that way, and I was like, maybe
<v Speaker 4>I will just like start social media to talk about
<v Speaker 4>like brothel industry, because like I felt this narrative is
<v Speaker 4>kind of missing, like nobody does that. There's like a
<v Speaker 4>lot of sex workers talking from their perspective, and I
<v Speaker 4>love this. I think it's like really vital for people
<v Speaker 4>to see this. But then like there is nobody talking
<v Speaker 4>about the brothel side of the industry, about the manager,
<v Speaker 4>about the managerial site. And this is also my PhD
<v Speaker 4>two pick, so I study management of legal or the
<v Speaker 4>criminalized sex work. And I was like, maybe just like
<v Speaker 4>I will start the social media and talk about this
<v Speaker 4>and I will just see like where this leads. And
<v Speaker 4>like I didn't have any experience with social media, so
<v Speaker 4>like my my personal instagram, I think I have like
<v Speaker 4>thirty people following me or something like I don't I
<v Speaker 4>didn't know how to do this. So at some point,
<v Speaker 4>I think after like three months, it got like really
<v Speaker 4>big and like everything went like viral, like all the
<v Speaker 4>all the videos, and I was like, oh shit, like
<v Speaker 4>what am I supposed to do now? Like I don't know,
<v Speaker 4>like I wasn't ready for this. And then like I
<v Speaker 4>found out like very quickly. Then Instagram it's like super prudish.
<v Speaker 4>It's like I was ben it a few times, like
<v Speaker 4>the things got flagged and I was like, shit, so
<v Speaker 4>maybe this is like not the good place for me
<v Speaker 4>to talk about those stuff. And then I was like,
<v Speaker 4>maybe there is another platform. And then that's when I
<v Speaker 4>found OnlyFans because like here I can basically like talk
<v Speaker 4>about everything that I want to talk about, and like
<v Speaker 4>I can do the content that I want to do
<v Speaker 4>without like any fear that like somebody will read my
<v Speaker 4>profile and like I will be like with nothing.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm going to assume that you haven't even tried
<v Speaker 2>to do a TikTok account, because like.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I I have TikTok.
<v Speaker 2>Account, but you have to be more careful on that
<v Speaker 2>than Instagram, right, Like it's weird how it's the dynamic
<v Speaker 2>has changed.
<v Speaker 4>So now even though when I'm like posting the video,
<v Speaker 4>I'm like this might get like bent me or something. Yeah,
<v Speaker 4>like maybe this is the reason why I will lose
<v Speaker 4>my Instagram.
<v Speaker 2>But it's all educational though, I mean yeah, but they
<v Speaker 2>don't get.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, they just don't get like the deep plot, like
<v Speaker 5>the deep plat forming of the of the people who
<v Speaker 5>talk about sex work and like sexuality.
<v Speaker 3>It's like it's a huge Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>It's like even though like I think it's okay, Instagram
<v Speaker 4>doesn't think about it in that way.
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, what do you think is the most challenging
<v Speaker 2>thing about your job? And what's the most rewarding.
<v Speaker 4>There's like so many So first I need to get
<v Speaker 4>used to the stigma obviously, so right now, like I
<v Speaker 4>don't probably I'm just like really used to it or
<v Speaker 4>maybe just like people don't say this into my face,
<v Speaker 4>but I needed to get used to it. Like people
<v Speaker 4>like judging me like quite heavily, and like a lot
<v Speaker 4>of the people they actually told me, oh, you're a
<v Speaker 4>manager of a brothel. That's even worse than if you'd
<v Speaker 4>be prostitute.
<v Speaker 2>Right because they feel like you're you're the and you're
<v Speaker 2>like pushing exactly exactly like a lot of the people
<v Speaker 2>they told me, Oh, you're pimp, and I'm like I'm
<v Speaker 2>actually not, you know.
<v Speaker 4>So like let me explain it to your Yeah, but
<v Speaker 4>like right now, like I just really don't care. Like
<v Speaker 4>maybe this will sound mean, but like I don't care
<v Speaker 4>about like opinions of people that like don't know anything
<v Speaker 4>about the industry and like their opinion is based on emotions,
<v Speaker 4>like not the real data or like statistics or facts,
<v Speaker 4>and like they don't know anyone from the industry. They
<v Speaker 4>think it's bad. And this is the reason why I
<v Speaker 4>actually talk about it, because I've heard like so many
<v Speaker 4>people telling me. Look like before I discovered your account
<v Speaker 4>or something, like I knew that this this like industry
<v Speaker 4>is a thing, but like I didn't know anything about it,
<v Speaker 4>and like now I can see it can be good place,
<v Speaker 4>it can be like super shitty place. Like I don't
<v Speaker 4>want to glamorize the industry, but like I'm trying to
<v Speaker 4>make people just see that like not everything is like
<v Speaker 4>black and white. So I needed to get used to
<v Speaker 4>the stigma and like obviously the most rewarding part, like
<v Speaker 4>being in a brothel it's like seeing the girls becoming
<v Speaker 4>like powerful and like independent and like really know, like
<v Speaker 4>learning how to stand up for themselves and like being
<v Speaker 4>this like better as bitches. Like I love to see this.
<v Speaker 2>I love that guy I can relate to like so
<v Speaker 2>many things that you said, Well, thank you so much
<v Speaker 2>for coming on. This is so interesting. I think you
<v Speaker 2>answered a lot of questions that so many people have
<v Speaker 2>about brothels. If people have more questions for you, where
<v Speaker 2>should they follow you on social media?
<v Speaker 4>So they can either follow me on Instagram which is
<v Speaker 4>Catherine Underscore the Underscore Noir, or I have TikTok and
<v Speaker 4>I have no idea what's my name there? So maybe
<v Speaker 4>I'll just like send it to you any willing.
<v Speaker 2>Don't worry. We will put a little like banner under
<v Speaker 2>the video that will say you're the fence, so they
<v Speaker 2>can decide what's your what's the only fans in? Uh,
<v Speaker 2>it's Catherine Dinir okay, all no spaces, all forwards, okay
<v Speaker 2>together amazing, amazing And you guys can follow me on
<v Speaker 2>Instagram at Holly Randall also on Twitter as well. I
<v Speaker 2>have a TikTok. I forgot what it is? Is it
<v Speaker 2>Holly Randall and Filter Holly Randall, seventy eight. There I go.
<v Speaker 2>I have a snapchat too, Holly podcast. One of my
<v Speaker 2>videos went like kind of viral.
<v Speaker 3>The other day.
<v Speaker 4>Congratulations are you What was it about?
<v Speaker 2>I think it was about me how I had a
<v Speaker 2>small towel to draw myself off in the shower because
<v Speaker 2>I forgot to bring towels to the gym. It was
<v Speaker 2>not an okay, it was not interesting. No, it wasn't No,
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't. Sorry that one got a lot of views
<v Speaker 2>because of this. It was the the TikTok thing that
<v Speaker 2>we did with the reading glasses. Don't do it, don't
<v Speaker 2>do it, don't do it. And then I put on
<v Speaker 2>reading glasses because anyways, yeah, because I need them because
<v Speaker 2>I'm blind. One day, you guys will be watching the
<v Speaker 2>show and then all of a sudden, I will have
<v Speaker 2>reading glasses. And that's when you know that I am
<v Speaker 2>officially like gone to seed.
<v Speaker 5>Uh.
<v Speaker 2>If you want to support this podcast, watch these episodes live,
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<v Speaker 2>Holly Randall Unfiltered. Thank you guys so much for watching.
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't do it without you. Appreciate you so much, and
<v Speaker 2>I'll see you next week.