Natural Surfaces; American College Tennis Without Americans, Reader Qs

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. Guess what, everyone, I'm not alone. I'm not a loser this week. I have a friend. She's back, Caitlyn Thompson.

00:00:26
Speaker 2: Thank you, back in the chat.

00:00:28
Speaker 1: Y'all back in the chat. So Caitlin, We've got We've got a little little bit to talk about. Your favorite time in the year. Clay courts.

00:00:38
Speaker 2: There's so many reasons that it's my favorite time of the year. I mean, really, it's natural surfaces season.

00:00:42
Speaker 1: That I like.

00:00:43
Speaker 2: So not only is it clay courts, but grass courts. So really, the next like two months are my prime time of tennis for a couple of reasons. I think the tennis quality is better. I think the locations on the whole are more storied, so it's fun to be like, oh, let's pretend I'm in Barcelona, even though I'm on my couch doing an early warning work call. And that brings me to the third point, which is the timing of the events, especially if you live in North America. Are for a morning person or a person with children, or people who just have to be up early for whatever reason. It is primetime viewing, so before noon I've already seen tennis matches being played in all sorts of glorious corners of the world in a style that I love the most, So what's not to like?

00:01:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I'm not a morning person, as you know, Caitlin, but I do like you to be. I like getting up though, and having a cup of coffee and having the beautiful red clay right in front of me, because you know, there are so many things about different surfaces that bring out so many different interesting things about tennis. Right you know, you have to be a certain way on grass, you have to be a certain way on clay, you have to be a certain way on hard court indoors. It's all very interesting. And of course on the women's side lot we've had a lot of matches indoors on clay as well with the guys who've been playing outside a little bit more so, it's clay, to me, is probably the most fun to watch. It's some people think it's a little bit boring because the points are longer, blah blah blah. But for a tennis purist like myself to watch these matches, it's like I'm watching the players in real time. Trying to work the fucking point out in their own brain. It's like they're like, I can't go for this shot. I know they're going to run it down. I have to be a little more creative. I have to utilize the drop shot, which is a shot we don't see a lot. I'm starting to see it more and more on to it because everyone's so good from the back of the court they have to figure out a way to win the point. But I just love the sort of different styles of trying to win a point, unless you're Elena Rabakina and you just hit everybody off the court.

00:02:42
Speaker 2: So yeah, you said, the only person I didn't see making a ton of adjustments with Lena Rebaccna because you didn't have to. But that kind of creative, multifaceted tennis I think is the most important, and I think for me, the results in Munich are actually the most indicative of a player who heretofore is pretty primed for hardcore tennis and not much else making an adjustment. So should we go tournament by tournament because I know you must have a lot of thoughts, and I actually have a lot of questions for you about particularly the tactical changeups, because you're right, most people think of clay specifically and they think long points, they think grinding rallies from the baseline. But also there's a good amount of creativity and net play that you know, we're able to see, particularly on the men's side in the form of Ben Shelton, and so I kind of want to get into both the results, what you think it means for the season, but also like where are we seeing players make interesting adjustments or where do players need to make adjustments in the form of like Makova, for example, who had a phenomenal tournament in Stutgard. When I watched a bunch of her matches and then you know, in the final she kind of just ran into the buzz side that is Alenda Rabakina in top gear. So let's go through tournament by tournament what you thought about it, because I was, just, like I said, a firm it was an embarrassment of riches. I watched all week. I thought all the tennis was really great, and you know, it's nice to have the entirety of the tour in one place, if not in one city, then at least in one continent sort of all playing on similar surfaces, which you know we didn't have there for a minute.

00:04:14
Speaker 1: Yeah we did. And I like the fact that you know, even Lyntz is an indoor clay court tournament instead of at the end of the year sort of thrown in there because they get hurt by a lot of players pulling out at the end of the year. So this year, I think it's better that they started that tournament. So we've had a bunch, as I said, indoor matches on clay for the women. But yeah, Benny Shells man or man, I tell you what, I think the clay might be his surface in a lot of ways. And I think there's a couple of reasons why. One the serve and the kickserve, and he can serve anybody off the court, it doesn't matter what court. But his variety of speed on the serve actually really helps him on He's going to hit his serve and win points on every surface, He's going to ace people whatever, but on clay because he has that beautiful kickserve as well, and he gets people off the court. And guess what else, he has a phenomenal forehand with so much top spin. So if you think about Raffael on Nadal's forehand, how aggressive and how good it was on clay, bouncing up super high, getting out of people's hitting zones. That's what Ben Shelton's doing. He's actually, in actual fact he has even more power in some regards to Rafa's forehand, which is saying something. I mean, Rafa obviously could hit it big, but Benny Sheells's forehand gets off the court. He pulls people off the court with that. It bounces up, it gets out of people's hitting zones and the serve. So he's going to be really hard to break. And also he can hit his back end a little bit better because he has a bit more time on the clay and he can use his slice and he can come into the net. And so for me, I would not I mean, over five sets is very different. We talk about this at nauseum through the years. He's going to have to find a way to beat alcoraz AND's in over five sets on any surface to win a major. But he is the one American that I think can break through because of these massive weapons that he has. And boy, a boy, he looked real comfortable on the clay. He looked real comfortable.

00:06:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he played a phenomenal final against Flavio Koboli, who, let's just say, not only did the lord's work in the semifinals with a resounding victory over alex Verev, but also did it while mourning areking into tears after the semi was over, and in my view, probably didn't have like kind of enough motional gas maybe in the tank for that. But not to take anything away from Ben Shelton, who did exactly what you just said, which is play the entirety of the surface, really utilize the angles, utilize that kickserve and get in behind it. And that's kind of what I was talking about when when we think of clay court tennis being like two baseline ralliers, you know, going on forever, it's not actually the case, like clay enables you because of the surface and because of the variety, to really use the whole toolbox. And I think what I loved that I saw about Ben Ben's play this this past weekend is he's such a good athlete that the unorthodox way a lot of those points played out was to his benefit. Like he's not really a pattern player, I don't think. And I like the fact that the serve, especially when it kicked like created some really interesting openings and the points were fun, and it sort of gave me a fresh look at Ben Shelton, who otherwise I kind of tend to see is like too one dimensional to break through in the top echelon. As you said, yeah, five sets going up against you know, the European guys who grew up on this stuff and have it in their veins is like a harder task for sure. But I love the fact that he was in it. Then at a Ton, I love the fact that his backhand, even though we've talked about, has gotten better, still is not elite and it doesn't hurt him as much here, which you know, is a good thing. And I think also I want to give a shout out to Hugh Clark, who writes a really good substack called A Threat of Order, and I like to read it sometimes, even though it's like reading Dustayevski when it comes to your endbox, because it's like eight thousand war drafts about you know, tactics and things like return position. But he did call out Ben Shelton's return position, which I want to sort of ask you about, did you see in addition to the sort of serve and volley and mixing it up like a more sort of Benny Shells. I wouldn't even say clay Native because usually clay Natives would stand back. Like I like the fact that he was crowding the serf. Did you see that as something that was working for him.

00:08:23
Speaker 1: Well, he's such a big presence of a person and his ability to be able to put you under pressure immediately with that return is it's quite daunting. And yes, he can move back. That's what I like about Benny. He's willing to sort of move his position around on return of serve. But if you don't serve, well, he is going to take a crack at the return. He's not a clay caught mindset kind of guy. He's still a hard caught mindset sort of aggressive player, but he also understands his body composition, the fact that he's look, he's not going to be a Carlis Alchorrez type of mover, but for a big guy, he moves really well. I think it's more along the lines of I know that I'm going to win my serf ninety eight percent of the time, and if I can do that and break you or break twenty percent of the time in a match. I'm going to win a lot of matches in my career, so I think that he just feels like if I can put a little bit of pressure on the returner by standing in, by being aggressive and looking to maybe take a shorter kind of kick, very normal sort of kickserve, it doesn't kick out of his zone because he's so tall and so strong that he's putting pressure on his opponents immediately, and so they get a little bit tight on the serve. They're going for a little bit too much, and you know that's what happened. Koboli double folded. I think to give the break to Ben in the match, and that's just pressure from the return and the presence of a Ben Shelton. And there's some players that you know, you play against and you look down the other end and they're so tall and there's like you think about a Sablenka, you think about a Rebuccena, you think about a Yanick Sinner, you think about these type of players. You just look down there with the serv and you go, shit, there's nowhere to go, because he also has this great length that he can hit off of. So yeah, and he's a little bit unpredictable. Is he going to come into the net? Is he going to hit and go back? So I just think having his dad as a as a former player as well to give him these kinds of ideas and sort of green light it be like, yeah, go for it, you know, stand back, stand in whatever you want to do. I think is a really it's a good testament of his ability.

00:10:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm, as I mentioned, I'm not the hugest Ben Shelton optimist. I like him obviously. He's fun and I like the fact that he can get gladiatorial and like kind of college tennis energy where.

00:10:40
Speaker 1: He's tamed that though you think about how like into it he was when he first came out here.

00:10:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's the edges maybe have been standed off after a couple of seasons on the tour, probably because I don't think it was winning him too many friends, even though you know, by all accounts he's a very affable guy. But I do think like his ability to get up for big matches, his energy, his kind of unpredictability, like with just kind of a different frequency on the dial, like in hard courts and in the latter stages of slams, it looks like, you know, uh, scatteredness and lack of a plan, whereas on clay it's like, oh this is fun. It's unpredictable. This is like chaos as a ladder, like, oh cool. Actually it's kind of playing into his favor. So I'm excited. And as you mentioned, you know, he could be the first American to break through. Well, he's already done something that no American has done since two thousand and two in the form of Andrea Agassy, which has win a match a tournament on clay. Which last person to do that two was was, you know, Andrea Agassy in Rome? As I as I have understood it crazy, it's been more than twenty years since an American man has won a clay court tournament. You know, is he going to win the French Probably not, but look, he's going to already make the clay court season a little bit more interesting because I think the men's side in particular was getting free see or I mean it's tough, right, Like you want the rivalry, but you want the variety, and you know, it's funny for me, I'm definitely a variety person. And having two new faces when in new places. This past weekend on the men's side was exciting for.

00:12:16
Speaker 1: Me, Well, it was exciting in some respects, but I did get up this morning and I thought, wow, you know, we had Muhovad like have such a great week, and we had you know, rebarking is really letting everyone know that she's going after the number one right here, right then you've got Sabalanco didn't play, and then you've got Ego like, we're going to get into the women's but you've got so many sort of like storylines on the women's side, even though there's only a couple that are really dominating, but anyone can win at any time on the women's tour still, whereas the men, you're just like, oh my wah wah, like our carraz is pulling out of tournaments, and I'm just like, oh, is there anybody interesting to really like is there a group where you can say yes and no? And then all of a sudden, Ben Shelton wins and I thought, ah, okay, here's a here's a little spanner in the works. As we say, he's going to let everyone know that, hey, don't forget about me, because I do have the weapons to win these matches, and he's an interesting factor, which is.

00:13:10
Speaker 2: A great factor. And can we just talk about frankly, the match I was more excited about.

00:13:14
Speaker 1: I know, I knew this was coming.

00:13:15
Speaker 2: Are the feasts, you know, I love a French guy. I love them, I love them, I love them all, and I love are the feasts in particular. And he had, as we discussed, you know in many Prayer episodes, a real rough ride there for a while with his back, a back touches, everything has somebody who's had back injuries. That's no bueno. So the fact that not only has he come back from this back injury, but in the past four tournaments he has gotten to you know deep Semis and Miami, and now he's won the title in Barcelona. Like Barcelona had a pretty stacked field for not being a giant tournament, and you know, obviously Carlos Alfarez pulling out doesn't help, but like that's not an easy tournament to win. There were some very very big, capable pass champions in that draw and Arthur Feace was dynamic, he was emotional, he was big. He did all the things that I like, particularly a French player to do, which is like play big ballsy tennis, and that's what it did. And so for me this was a really exciting result, not least of which because it happened in my favorite set in the world, which is as you know, Barcelona.

00:14:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, his win over Merceti was sort of like a little bit of a statement, wasn't it, because it was straight sets and he, you know, like you said, coming back from back injuries.

00:14:33
Speaker 2: I don't know.

00:14:33
Speaker 1: I think it's because have you seen his abs?

00:14:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's seen the lower half of his body. I mean he's strong. Yes.

00:14:43
Speaker 1: I mean it was interesting because he got through his first match against Altmeya at seven to six in the third and I think, okay, physically, how what is that going to do to his body, because he's very taxing to play on clay in that that with that amount of time. But then he sort of mowed down the whole everybody after that, Like it was like straight sets, straight set, straight sets, And I mean even the final was like pretty routine against against our boy Rublev. But I have to say, Arthur Fee is that interesting, same sort of character like Ben where it's a little bit unpredictable, the power is there, the Serve is there. The movement for two really big guys is there, and they have the Hutspa as they say, to actually walk on a court against any player and think that they can win. And that's what you need, because when you see players like Zverev and you just know at some point he's going to break down, you just know. You just see it in his face and he looks over at his dad and you just think, here we go. And I mean, yeah, I mean he didn't a lot of people expected him to win in Munich and he didn't get the job done in his hometown.

00:15:50
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, same. I mean for me, it's like, if you're gonna bring it against the you know, I think you and I are closer in points to alex Verev than alex Verev is closer to Jennix Center and Carlos Aperaz in the ATP points race. That's how crazy the golf is. And alex Verev is the third, you know, the third in the in the race. I do think it's really interesting how everyone's the narrative around him is not like look at how gross his hair is, which is they're in a narrative I want to talk about or you know, maybe some other stuff, but everybody on the internet seems to be obsessed with this idea, like who's the best player who's never won a Slam? And it's like, first of all, who cares you did? Or you did? You know if if Eve right? And second of all, like it's not like this guy's had chances and you know, been beaten. This guy has had chances and beats himself because he's not capable. Like that, to me is a very different conversation than like, oh man, can you believe it? Bad luck? Like you know, you Sam Stosier in the finals of the French Open in twenty eleven against Francesca Sciavona, and you play a really good match and guess what, Francesca Sciavone plays the match of her life to win the French Open. Like that's the situation where you're like, yeah, Sam Stosier probably should have another Grand Slam, but like, you know, she just it didn't happen, Okay, You're like Sabine Lasiki put herself in a position to win Wimbledon by beating Serena Williams on Serena Williams's best surface and then loses the plot and Marian Bartwolie takes home a slam that she shouldn't have. Like that stuff happens, I.

00:17:32
Speaker 1: Would say, shouldn't have. She's a better player, for sure, a better player than Sabine Lasiki.

00:17:37
Speaker 2: She was a better player for throughout her career, but that tournament should have been Sabine less. Like cast one, just giving you an example of like, oh man, that's a bummer because like that unlucky, but like Alex Verov, this is his playbook, like he's gonna find a way to be a coward and then it doesn't happen. So anyway, it's just really funny to me, like everyone's like, oh man, like this guy, he's so close, he's the greatest.

00:18:00
Speaker 1: It's like in what sense, Yeah, greatest is these guys like Alkaraz and Cinner that turn up every week and pretty much win them.

00:18:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's use our words carefully.

00:18:08
Speaker 1: That's that's that's the bottom line. Anyway, We are very excited because we really like to see those two winners with feasts and Shelton getting the job done.

00:18:18
Speaker 2: Great men's tennis result. Yeah, let's talk about the women.

00:18:22
Speaker 1: Oh wow, what a week for some great tennis. Great tennis. I mean, I thought stuer was awesome, and let me just say it is such a great tournament. It is one of the favorite tournaments for the players and has been forever and ever and ever. Wow, even when you win it, well I did not, sadly for the doubles and I won the doubles.

00:18:42
Speaker 2: We don't give the doubles players Porsches.

00:18:44
Speaker 1: No, not even not even a toy car. Sucks. You know, we begged. We're like really just like you know, we share. We don't even need the turbo, just regular. Anyway, we got to drive them all week. Well, thanks so much. But you know, if they had like a if they had like the bottom level car, they could have given her that. But that doesn't really exist in the Porsche's.

00:19:05
Speaker 2: Say which one?

00:19:06
Speaker 1: Yeah anyway, so what again?

00:19:11
Speaker 2: Maybe it would be what is cheaper?

00:19:13
Speaker 1: Yeah that's sounding like a million dollars now, but anyway, kay.

00:19:18
Speaker 2: Anyway, but your point remains, BMW, you win, you get a BMW. I mean, Munich, you want a BMW Stuekert, you win it, you get a Porscha. That's pretty cot on.

00:19:26
Speaker 1: Porsche any day of the week. But let me just say the tournament is great because of a lot of reasons. The hotel is like right next to the courts. They do the most amazing like food court for the players. It's just it's such a great tournament. Anyway, I just want to talk about how good carent before we get to the winners in the final. Carolina Mahovah's week. Mahovah's week was just unreal. She finally gets the win over Cocoa Golf. She finally gets a win over Alena Switzelina. She was oh and nine against the two of them. So I think, you know, getting Spen Groenefeld as her coach at the start of this year was such a good move because Fen, first of all, he's coached a lot of great players, but he understands her game, you know, And that's why I said, like some people said, who would you like to coach in your life, I'll with like Carolina Muhova all day every day. And one of the reasons is because she can do everything and do everything really well right and I think one of the things that she needs to maybe do against a rebarking for example, she's just got to find a way to be a little bit more aggressive because you know, Elena takes the Elena takes the racket out of your hands. It's just unbelievable how well she's playing right now. But the Coco match was, you know, and I've spoken about it, she needs some people are like, what is she One of the questions I was asked a couple of weeks ago is what does she need to do to beat Coco Goff And she did a lot of that in this match. Was she took a little bit more risks. I have to say, I don't think Coco played her best match. But the things that you have to do as Coco, you have to have variety, you have to go for it when you have the opportunity, you have to serve well. And all of those things is what Caroline and mcjova did so well in this particular match. She used the sly more. She sliced the fort to the foehand more. And it doesn't have to be a great slice, actually shorter, more biting sort of you know, Roger Federesque, sort of into the service box area. Is a is a terrible shot for Coco to have to deal with with her grip, be like when I hit it against you, Caitlin I mean, you hate that shot.

00:21:29
Speaker 2: It's a getting my grip is no longer as extremes, as Coco says, but still the picking up the ball low while you're moving forward off of a short, essentially chip is really hard.

00:21:44
Speaker 1: And now if I'm coming in, Coco, if you did that to me, I'm like, lick them the chops. I'm like, great, I get to hit this because I don't have an extreme forehand grip, and I get to be into the area that I love the most, which is the net. Now Coco likes, she's not bad at the net. She likes going into the net, but you cannot. It is so hard for her to hit that forehand short on the service line and do anything really super effective with it except chip it and maybe come in. And then Carolina Muhova is so good at seeing the court right. So a lot of these women, they get a passing shot and they try and drill it right, they try and rip it. And then Coco's good anticipating and she's not afraid to be at the net, whereas Carolina is like, oh, I'm just going to hit a lob over you, because she has so much wear athal of how she can win the point without hitting the shit out of the ball. Now, she can still hit the shit out of the ball if she wants to, but she's smart enough to be like, I can just put this over your head. You know, she doesn't have that ego in her. I'm just going to hit it. Because when people get nervous, they go with what works for them, which is hitting the ball hard, right. Whereas Carolina has variety, so she uses her variety. So I think the problem that she did against Coco Pryor was not use her variety enough. So I saw a variety. I saw her coming into the net. I saw her taking swinging volleys out of the air. She was serving unbelief thievable under pressure, that big flat serve out wide and coming in and serving and bowling and and I have to say, I don't know how you felt about this. Coco is getting very opos she's getting very pissy on the court. Like if I was coaching her after that, I would take her aside and say, you have not lost one match to this girl, not one match.

00:23:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, she went and undefeated. I know.

00:23:21
Speaker 1: And you are looking like you are a playing like shit. B don't think you can win? See you're you're giving her a look at down the other end, like, oh, oh I could maybe she doesn't have it today, Like why are you giving your opponent any kind of positive or negative feedback from you at all? Like that was very interesting for me. And she was she had the shits the whole match. She was looking over her She said to a box a couple of times, like tell me what to do or I don't know what to do. And I'm like, my god, you've not lost to this girl one time, and yet you're getting so frustrated. It was very confusing to me, even though Carolina played excellent.

00:24:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, not to take anything away from Carolina, I did notice the same. And you know, we've talked about, you know, Coca taking time off, or Coca's coaching or you know, obviously we've talked a better technique a lot, all from a place of love. By the way, I love when you call anybody having a spiraling moment just having the shits, which is so beautifully succinct. But for me, you know, I just want to zoom out. And for like anybody listening, part of the reason we get on the players for doing this is not because it's like you know, offending our delicate sensibilities because I think i've you know, the both of us, you know that we don't have them. But it's just it's tactically stupid. Yeah, it's tactically stupid if you're in a match. And I remember thinking this in juniors when I had the temerity one time to lose it on the court and my coach was like, nope, I had this lady. She was absolutely not. And then I realized, Oh, if you don't show emotion, if you keep it cool, you act non plus even like laugh off an error, your opponent is getting nothing from you. If anything, they think that you're you know, you're having such a good time that you know, your confidence hasn't been shaken. On the flip side, if you carry on like a pork chop, which is another Renee stubbsism, you know, especially when it's early in the match, you're telegraphing you're nervous, you don't have confidence, you don't feel good out there, and your opponent should be licking their chops because they realize that you feel vulnerable. And so part of it is etiquette, and it's just like not that fun to watch somebody lose their mind all except if they're like a Frenchman, in which case that's a different kind of existential situation. But I think telegraphing negativity really helps your opponent, which is why it's so dumb, especially if you're playing bad and you have a winning record against this girl, which Coco does. So yeah, I don't know what that indicates mentality wise, but this is really her time of the year to shine, so I hope she sorts it out.

00:25:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is the defending French Open champion, so yeah, I was. I was, so I was so confused by that, you know, and you have opportunities as a coach to say something to your player, and I would have if she walked over and said, listen, what you cannot show. You cannot show her anything negative. You know, she would miss a return and she would like put her hands in the aird.

00:26:10
Speaker 2: I was.

00:26:11
Speaker 1: I was for somebody who we like, really love and respect in Cocoa Gough and her attitude and her fighting ability and her I mean she was fighting, she was trying. You know, she would win a game and she'd be like, come on, and she never ever gives up and never quit in this match, but it was more along the lines of you had to realize that Carolina Muhova was coming with some good shit today, like she was playing well, and you know, in the end, it's like, okay, you just have to admit that your opponent is playing very well. You're not playing great. She was making really bad unforced eras, like on the backhand, even on the forehand, like making a ton of errors on the on the forehand and not serving well, and that's the bottom line, and Carolina was taking advantage of that. So but the thing I took away from it the most was how well Carolina played and believed in herself to win this match, but also just how Coco was just very pissy pants on the court and that and if it was making I'd be like, going forward, if you want to win the French Open again, you got to cut that off.

00:27:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. Mukovo to me is my favorite active player on the women's side from a game perspective, just as you said all the tools. Obviously, listeners of this podcast and close followers of tennis will know that she made a French Open final, did not play particularly well in that French Open finyl and kind of failed to meet the moment, which you know was her first and to date only. So here's hoping she gets another couple of chances because for me, the game style and the tactic of playing really reminds me of my favorite probably player of all time, Justine Hennah, because she can come in, she can play, she has good hands, she's exciting, she can hit a tweener, she can hit it behind her back, which she did. I think in that semi, let's talk about two more people while we talk about this. I don't really want to talk about Ruin except to say, like, hey, MARKU Costia a good job winning your first tournament a couple of years, but wrapping it up on Schuckart to me Mira Andreva assessment yep, which I think is not bad. By the way, I think she's had.

00:28:10
Speaker 1: A much better where she ran out of steam run into a bud saw of Rebakina. But the fact that she got another win got I got a win, I go against Eager Shantek. That was interesting. Lot of people were wondering how Eager was going to come into this tournament, how she was going to play. You know, everyone's going on about Daria. Daria wasn't there and she still lost, like so, you know, we've got the new coaching. But one of the things that I did notice, and this is one of the questions that was asked of.

00:28:40
Speaker 2: Me, well we should see some of those questions probably for I'm going to answer that.

00:28:45
Speaker 1: I'm going to answer it now because I'm going to answer based on sort of the question was I mean essentially about her, and you know, if I saw a difference in her game, and I didn't see much of a difference, what I did notice from the beginning little bit at the beginning was oh, she's standing quite a long way back. So it's kind of maybe going into the little bit of the very clay court mentality of playing further back and getting more shape on the forehand, blah blah, blah blah blah, which is all well and good in one respect, but in the end, Eager sheontech is a clay court you know, quote unquote specialist, and has done so well at the French because she also attacks. She hits the crap out of the ball, and she moves you, and she's relentless and all of those things. And I'm sort of it's going to be interesting to see how Francisco Roy handles this about her. Is he going to make her a bit more of a Spanish clay court player standing further back, or is he going to embrace the fact that she's an aggressive clay court player. But I think the biggest takeaway for me with Eager it's a serve. It's too predictable. Andrevo went after a couple of really big returns of serve. She tends to hit that same kickserve that really does bounce up like a Rebakina or a Sabalancas and gets out of the hitting position and then she's attackable on the second serve. So, and I've said this from the beginning. I said it a couple of weeks ago when someone said to me, what would you do to make her better? And I'm like, she has to work on her serve and she's good five ten, five eleven, she's strong, but this serve is going. It's just it's not a weapon like it could be. And I think she got into trouble with that, particularly because Mira Andreva, who's about the same size, better serve period. And that's how she got out of a lot of problems. She had a lot of break points where she just came out of it better than Eaga did well.

00:30:36
Speaker 2: I was really happy to see Mira Andreva play a good tournament. And the last thing that I think we should probably end this segment on is Elena Rebarkina when she's I mean we've seen it on multiple services in multiple settings, but holy moly, like Macovt, not much she could do. Mira Andreva both ran out of team, but also not much she could do. Rebeckena at her top gear takes it out of your hand. You know, it's the only person in that top echelon who can who can compete at a little subl anca. Right now, it seems like it.

00:31:11
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, there's no question about it. I mean because of the serve, and you know Sabalanca can hold serve as much as Rebeckina can. So it's just if you can break her. And I know because I've coached against her, I've watched her a million times. It's all about can you break her serve? And she's you know, she can ace you off the court. It doesn't matter if it. I mean, listen, I think indoor clay helps her. The outdoor clay will a little be a different situation for her because it will it gets a little bit muddier, it gets a little bit colder. So if the French Open has, for example, really nice weather every day, Rebeccina can absolutely win the French Open. But it has to stay like that. If it gets a little bit gluggy and a little bit sort of like cold, then you can kind of get her ball back. The balls get bigger because they get a bit more wet, Like. There's all these factors that go into playing tennis, but especially on the natural surfaces like grass and clay, but particularly play because if it rains, you have to play through it.

00:32:24
Speaker 2: Okay, on't you another topic? You sent me a tweet over the weekend sent by one Patrick McEnroe. Will you set this up for us and then I can get into it. Yeah.

00:32:37
Speaker 1: So Patrick McEnroe put out a tweet yesterday I think I believe it was, and it said I'm currently watching the SEC Men's Tennis Championship match between Texas and Mississippi State on ESPN SEC Network. There are twelve players currently on court. One of them is from the United States of America, so eleven foreign players are out there playing that match. So I think that's a statement in WTF, where are all the American players and why are they getting draft recruited more to college and why aren't more men wanting to play college tennis and why aren't colleges I guess recruiting more American players. I know why they want to win and Europeans want to come over and get a college scholarship and play tennis. But it's an interesting thing to talk about, and it's been this has been an ongoing factor for a number of you. Probably about probably the last ten to fifteen years, it's gotten worse. What are your thoughts being a college player?

00:33:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we actually just published a really really thorough and extremely well researched and I think really well written piece about this. If you want to check it out on Racket mag we have all of our articles are free with email registration. And it was called The Disappearing American College Player and it was by Swedish author who's a coach and Mikhail Birch Anderson sorry he's Norwegian, and he has been doing these studies in his main sport, which is golf, and then did a similar one for tennis, and basically the conclusion is American college tennis is not really American He did a study that between two thousand and five and twenty twenty five, the amount of incoming players at Division one tennis went from about seventy percent men and women. Women's was sixty nine percent, men's were seventy one. So it's called seventy percent seventy percent of those players in two thousand and five, which was after I graduated, but tw five seventy percent, and now it's forty four percent and forty one percent, so call it, you know, forty two or forty three percent, but under half. And you know, this is a really interesting thing because college tennis in the United States at the Division one level is subsidized with scholarships, not entirely. Some of the men's programs only have partial scholarships. The women's tend to have, you know, somewhere between six and eight. But you know, these educations are free now for sports that make money for the schools, which is obviously your basketball's in America, your football's to maybe some degree, you know, baseball typically you know, you are putting together the best possible team to elongate your team's season and get invited to bowls so that your college gets tons and tons of money so it makes sense from an investment perspective obviously why these colleges are investing a ton into these sports teams. You know, I remember at the University of Missouri where I went, our basketball team made the Elite eight. One of the years. They had a private jet. They had a stadium that would rival what the nets have. You know, in the tennis team that I was on played on public courts with cracks and in the winter indoor fitness center where you had to walk through the jazz or size room. Now that's not me complaining truly, because we didn't bring in any money. I understood what the economics were, and I was frankly grateful to have a scholarship that paid for my journalism education. That said, for me, this raises a main question, which is not to rail against foreigners, which you know, I wasn't born in this country and neither you were both American citizens, but the idea of like, what is what is college sports for? What is college sports for? Is it for winning and making your school money? If so, If so, then why do any of them have men's tennis programs? Because those programs don't make any money. You don't sell tickets you don't sell merch. Maybe some nil deals here or there, you know, you can point to like, oh, well, now you know these athletes can license their images. The biggest NIL deal I've seen was not in tennis, and the tennis deals I've seen tend to top out a two three thousand dollars. So yeah, but okay, you know, a college scholarship is covering probably closer to fifty k a year and expenses for each athlete, give or take. So you know, to me, it's just sort of a question about what what are these things for. Are they for providing a well rounded experience in college for all students and so having robust sports teams is a good thing. Is it for educating the next group of folks using athletics the way that we would use academics as a way to give people who are exemplary a little bit of a reward. Or is it a primer for the pro tour, which obviously something we've talked about a lot on this podcast has been some of these players, American and not American, who've used the college system to get ready for the pro tour, which harkens back really to the age of Arthur ashe playing for UCLA, the magnrob Brothers playing for Stanford, etcetera, etcetera. So's it's a great article. I encourage you to read it because the research is just absolutely, absolutely unimpeachable in terms of the fact that this has happened. When I played college, our team was three quarters Eastern European. We had a ton of check players, few from Bulgaria, one from former Yugoslavia, you know, and it was cool in one sense because you got to hang out with people who not from where you're from, but also a little bit strange because they got a free education and they didn't stick around to use it in America.

00:38:09
Speaker 1: That's how old you are. It was former Yugoslavia.

00:38:11
Speaker 2: It was former Yugoslavia exactly. We were in the process of NATO action against Yugoslavia at the time, and that led to some very awkward ban rides where we talked about Bosnian sovereignty, which you know, got.

00:38:23
Speaker 1: Please play place. Let's not get into that. That's the last thing we need to get into on this pod.

00:38:28
Speaker 2: Please.

00:38:28
Speaker 1: I don't want to wake up in the morning and have forty eight text messages or or hateful hateful message was on Instagram So to answer to you know, put a button on this, what do you propose that can change having this many foreigners in NC double A tennis?

00:38:48
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:38:49
Speaker 1: Or are you okay with it?

00:38:51
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know the answer. I think the answer should be either.

00:38:55
Speaker 1: Because technically you were a foreigner on I wasn't.

00:38:58
Speaker 2: I was an American citizen, which men actually I didn't get an out of state or they didn't have to do any extra paperwork because I was an American passport holder. I was born overseas to naturalized American parents. So yeah, to me, we have to decide what college is for, and we have to decide what college sports is for. Is college sports only for profit? In which case the NCAA, which is, as far as I can tell, a pretty corrupt organization with lots of well documented problems, needs to be cleaned up and probably replaced with something that just makes it completely transactional. And we lose you know, D two and D three college sports and decide that only sports that pay for themselves are worth having, and that actually is going to act most college sports. Think track and field, think wrestling, think you know, softball and baseball. These aren't sports that make money.

00:39:51
Speaker 1: Well, softball certainly, the World Series makes money.

00:39:56
Speaker 2: The World Series makes money, and the University of Arizona probably makes money and extend Oklahoma.

00:40:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, but I think Seftwall makes a little bit of money certainly with its World Series. And it's actually one of the most highly it's one of the most high ratings on ESPN every week.

00:40:14
Speaker 2: I'm sure it is. My You could say volleyball in certain corners is the most fast growing recreational sport. But these sports don't pay for themselves. It is my point.

00:40:26
Speaker 1: Cross understand what you say.

00:40:27
Speaker 2: You know, if it pays for itself at the University of Arizona or the Sooners in Oklahoma, that's great, But do they have anybody to play against? Because can anybody else afford to field a team unless you redistribute money. It's kind of like taxes, right, It's like, do we want only people who are rich? Do we want to live in an equitable society where everyone has access to things like healthcare so we're not you know, do you want to live in favelas with you know, guarded by machine guns.

00:40:50
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, do you want to only tax the very rich? Yes, and everyone else should just pay ten percent. That's what that's my I've should run for it. I should run for office.

00:40:59
Speaker 2: That's great.

00:41:00
Speaker 1: Flat text to me makes sense.

00:41:02
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and then then all the people hiding all their assets in the Caymans have to repatriate it over here. Or or do we want to live in a world where college sports are by virtue different and we are actually about giving, you know, opportunities to athletes, at which point you probably should institute some kind of quotas the way that that we have. You know, look, if if I could have gone to the Sorbonne or Oxford, I mean, of course those are the schools that I list, not like you know, the Southwest France State University and you know Bordeaux, which is not a real place. You know. If it were reciprocal, if American athletes could go over to other places and go play and get great educations, then I'd say free for all, do whatever you want. I would have certainly gone and studied outside of this country. Maybe McGill my hometown of Montreal, he could have go done play tennis there and got a free school. So but it's not and this is only America sort of subsidizing a lot of other other apths. So I do think it's sort of shocking. The results of the study was interesting, and you know, will this change Probably not, but those are some ideas about how good.

00:42:11
Speaker 1: Okay, well we put a button on that, so thank you very much and thanks for the tweet out.

00:42:23
Speaker 2: I want to say this segment that you do by yourself now hopefully not no longer without me, but you've been doing it's so popular, We're going to create a recurring segment where every week we take reader questions and we're going to have a dedicated segment Renee take it away. You've gotten a bunch of really interesting questions. Obvious, you've already answered one about EGA. Let's actually start there, just because there were a bunch of bigan questions and you already answered one. Have you noticed any technique differences in the last week? Obviously you talked about the syrup a little bit. Talk about her first kind of her first two matches on clay. This is from Telescope and Phil Nwhen, who both have Eiger questions. What did you see in her first couple matches and was the technique different?

00:43:10
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like there was a big, massive technique difference. The one thing I noticed a little bit early on was how deep she was standing in the court. So I think that that's possibly sort of getting her into that mindset of grinding a little bit more and playing a little bit more like a clay quarter quote unquote. But I think you have to be very careful in that situation because I thought her movement was a little bit different as well. I thought she wasn't sliding to the forehand as well as I'm used to her doing. But look, she still has to be aggressive. She has to be aggressive. My biggest thing with Eager is that I feel like her depth of shot is not good enough. I think that's the one thing that people don't talk about enough, is where are you hitting your groundstrokes. She's hitting them on the service line, and I would be arguing with her to get the ball further down the court, get it a foot or two from the baseline. I know Lindsay Davenport was one of the great players like that. Like Lindsay used to practice trying to hit the ball within two feet of the baseline every single time, and if she didn't, it was like she would get the she would get super mad at herself, you know, even in just the warm up. So I think she needs to work on depth of shot and that pushes her opponents back, and when it pushes her opponents back, she can then step into the court a little bit more and then dictate. I just feel like there's still a little bit uncertainty in her game, in what she wants to do, how she wants to play, and she's going from you know, someone like Wimfaeset to someone like Francisco Roy, who really basically just worked with Rougher. I mean, he worked with Emma Radicano, but I thought he made her stand back too far and be way too defensive. So I'm going to get another week. You can't really see a massive difference in someone that quickly, But I just think bottom line is, well, I'll give it one more weak And I think Ryme is a big, big tale. Not necessarily Madrid because it's an altitude, but Rhyme is really big.

00:45:09
Speaker 2: Two more questions as we as we look to wrap this up, one of which concerned the doping allegations made against Marquettevanrosova, who you know, by all accounts is pretty devastated and wrote a very lengthy Instagram post talking about how her mental health has been you know, something of issue in the last couple of months. She's had a hard time, you know, being in the same place at the same time. We know doping protocols are very severe, and you know, if you miss them at the door and maybe you're doing something else, it's it's really bad. Michelle Schell's spot says thoughts on von Drosova with doping charge she's facing if what she said is true, I don't blame her one bit for answer for not answering her door, though any anything you have to add there.

00:45:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really because usually what happens is you get three missed opportunities. So I don't understand why they're threatening to because she could just say, oh, I missed it. I didn't even hear the door. I don't know. But you know, she's talking a lot about what happened with obviously petrik Kovitova, which was very highly documented years and years ago, where somebody basically a stalker came in or a home invasion and cut her hand with a knife. So, you know, Marqutev Androsova is very well known in the Czech Republic. She's a Wimbledon champion, and so people would know where she lives, people would know when she's home. The lights are on all the things. So I you know, in some regards, don't blame her that someone came out of the testing timeline. Usually you put in seven am in the morning because no tennis player is getting up before then, and you get the dingong and you're like, oh shit, I mean, no pun but I got to go to the toilet now, you know. But hers came at like a random time, and that can happen, So she should know that as well, that that can happen. They don't have to come at the alloted time because there are so many different drug testing organizations. It's not just the w t A or the ATP. It's like there's the I I A, there's the Olympic Committee from your own country. They can come at any time. So there's like three different testing pools that you're sort of in when you're in the Olympics, and so, you know, she just refused to open. It was interesting, but you know, look, I mean I've always known her to be a pretty honest, you know, pretty laid back, chilled kind of person. And so for her to make that statement, then I believe her. But you know, I certainly hope she doesn't get a four year band. She's had enough bloody problems with these injuries. So I don't know. It's an unknown Caitlin's an unknowner, and I don't like to speculate unless I actually have spoken to her personally.

00:47:51
Speaker 2: Fair enough, all right, last question that we got to wrap this up. Your fan cruise, Aguilera says, I still remember you in the stands in nineteen ninety two to supporting Steffie when you played doubles together, and my dream would be having you interview Steffie. Of course, he's referring to Stepi Graff any chance.

00:48:14
Speaker 1: Listen, my dream would be to interview Stephie Graff as well. But Steffie doesn't, even as one of my very good friends of decades, hates doing these things. She hates doing interviews, she hates talking like you'all text her and she'll text me back, and I'll text her and then she'll call me because she's like, I hate texting, Like she's just you know, she just doesn't do these things, you know, unless it's for a major sponsor, or, for her charity. She just doesn't do them. But you know what, guys, because she keep asking, I will keep asking her and one day, one of these days, she will give in to me, and hopefully we'll get her on the point.

00:48:49
Speaker 2: That's a great place, don it, Steffie. We hope you're listening. Yeah, all right, thanks.

00:48:52
Speaker 1: I'm going to send her the link right now anyway, all right, thanks guys, Thanks Caitlin for joining us today. The clay court swing continues, of course Madrid this week, where we've had a number of pullouts. No Novak Djokovic, no Alcaraz muhoves pulled out. It's tough. It's tough out there, but I think a lot of those people are trying to really think about one thing and one thing only, and that's the branch open, which is only three weeks away. All right, guys, thanks for joining us today, Caitlin. Peace.

00:49:21
Speaker 2: I'll talk to you about the week all right, by everybody.

00:49:23
Speaker 1: Hey,