Katie Woo on Cards trade chips + A’s taking Mason Miller offers?

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, we got Katie Wu from Cardinal Territory and of course the athletic joining us right now. And Katie, great to have you on for former Cardinal Great Lance Lynn making his Foul Territory hosting debut. How are you and you're ready for the tough questions from Lance instead of doing it when you were asking him the tough questions?

00:00:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lance that you thought you'd seen the last of me, right, Yeah.

00:00:26
Speaker 3: So you know, Katie always had fun because she'd be worried about giving me a chance to answer a question with one answer. If you give me a yes or no question, I was going to answer it yes or no and move on. I was not going to help you out at all. So she saw me do it too quite a few people last year. We had some fun with it.

00:00:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, you know, I was always in a way, Lancey made me better because I had to be so strategic about the way that I asked a question.

00:00:49
Speaker 4: And I'll give you this, if a reporter asked you like.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: A thought out, well researched question, you gave great answers.

00:00:57
Speaker 4: But the second we slip up, you're on it.

00:01:00
Speaker 2: And I did that a couple of times my colleagues a couple of times, and I did not want to be exposed on the postgame show.

00:01:06
Speaker 4: Okay, my dad watches that show. He was going to roast me.

00:01:10
Speaker 2: Cardinals. Twitter is going to roast me, and you can't let lanceln flame you on live TV. So let's try to keep that a steady thing on the show.

00:01:19
Speaker 3: Everybody knew what I was after. Give me a chance to make you earn it, that's for sure.

00:01:24
Speaker 5: What was training.

00:01:26
Speaker 1: Of course, he's just such a good teammate that he's trying to even make the media better on a daily basis. That all right, So let's get into biz here, Katie. The Cardinals got swept over the weekend buyers sellers. Where are we tilting the pendulum right now?

00:01:43
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:01:43
Speaker 2: So it's obviously not how you wanted to start the second half. And John Mozelak has said even in early July that he's prepared to go into the final week or seventy two hours even before the trade deadline, before he makes a decision on what the Cardinals will do. I will say whether the Cardinals buy, sell or hold, it won't be to any stream degree right now, as they covered just two games over five hundred. They've had a really just bad July. They've won just three out of their fourteen games, to key players in Lars new Bar Nolan Gorman on the injured list, and then their starting rotation has an ERA over seven in July. So just all around not good baseball for the Cardinals lately comes at a time where they're going to have to make a decision about their direction and they still aren't one hundred percent sure where they're going to go. If the Cardinals do sell, however, Sky, I don't think it's going to be in a fire sale by any means. I think you're looking at more of a soft selloff, similar to what they did in twenty twenty three, where they were offloading players on expiring contracts. Look, we knew that this season was going to be a transition year, and while I think the team did a really nice job and maybe overperforming a lot of the expectations coming into this season, right now you're kind of seeing some regression, especially from the rotation, and what the Cardinals must figure out is what's more important to them right now trying to sneak in and maybe hopefully getting that final wildcard spot in the second half or continuing on the path that they declared at the start of the season, which is looking at twenty twenty six and beyond. I'm prepared for this, and I think the Cardinals are as well to go again up until the final seventy two hours before the deadline.

00:03:12
Speaker 5: Kay.

00:03:12
Speaker 3: Do you see with their youth they have the ability to do both at the deadline because they've got a good decent core of pitching and hitting. And then if you can figure out maybe expiring contracts, how to add to that so next it's for next year also, but maybe something that can help them push down the stretch and maybe sneak in that final World card spot. I feel like there's a way they can kind of do both here.

00:03:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that, and I think that just depends on if they can turn it around against the Rockies here in Chorus Field and then they have four games against the Padres app Bush Stadium. I think those seven games will dictate if they can kind of straddle the fence. And that's what they've been doing all season long. Right, We've heard this all year. Can the Cardinals balance runway and result at the same time? And to their credit, in the first half they did for the most part. A good example of this maybe straddling that fence, would be the fact that the Cardinals are continuing to shop Eric Fetti, and this is someone that they're going to look to trade regardless if they buy or sell, because it allows them to trade someone that's going to be on an expiring contract. He'll be a free agent in twenty twenty six. It opens the door for Michael McGreevey, who will spot start today against the Rockies, but maybe we'll give him some extended time, some consistent time in the rotation because he hasn't had that. You can also look to trade away some of your relievers like Steven Matt's, Phil Mayton of course right and Helsley, who I'm sure we'll get into. The Only problem with that is if you're trying to compete in the second half. Those are the three relievers that have made the most impact in the late and means they've been absolutely instrumental in locking down leads in the seventh, eighth, ninth. I know Halsley has not had as dominant of a year as he had last year, but still very much the team's closer, and it doesn't look like the Cardinals really have someone that they trust filling that role if they get rid of Helsley. So there again, just kind of tight type. What is it when you're on like a balancing rope tight rope thing?

00:04:53
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you.

00:04:54
Speaker 2: That's where they are right now as they continue to go into the deadline. And you know Mo has said all season long he hoped he has difficult decisions to make if the Cardinals flame out against the Rockies. I think that decision will be a little easier. I think they'll wan to the soft cell. But to your point, Lands, they can absolutely do both.

00:05:09
Speaker 6: Yeah, one name you haven't said yet Nolan Arnado. I mean no trade clause. Have you heard anything about certain teams that he might go to or he might not go to?

00:05:18
Speaker 5: If that's the cave.

00:05:21
Speaker 2: As far as I know, it doesn't seem like there's been any change in the five teams that Nolan Arnaudo would accept a trade to. And we know those teams coming into the season, where the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, possibly the Astros. Even though he didn't and I'm missing one, help me out, guys, what did I already say Dodgers Padres?

00:05:40
Speaker 4: There we go there's my fifth.

00:05:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: All California, right. It doesn't seem like there's been any change in that regard. And plus Nolan will be the first to say his offensive performance has not really led to maybe any kind of increased trade value like he would have hoped. He's playing a gold standard third base again. He looks just like he's twenty five years old at the hot corner again. But when his offensive production has declined, the slugging is down, the ops is down, he's not hitting a ton of homers. So it also goes into that contract, which was a big reason why the Cardinal struggle to trade him over the off season in the first place. Doesn't sound like there's a lot of traction on the Arnatto front. I would imagine we revisit that conversation in the off season.

00:06:18
Speaker 1: Okay, and you started talking about him, so let's keep it rolling. Ryan Healthley thoughts on if they do end up selling, how much he could command and what kind of season has it been for him compared to the last couple.

00:06:32
Speaker 2: It's been a perplexing season for Helsley because if you look at the amount of times that you know has hard hit rate. The fastball bela is exactly the same as last year. It's still one of the best fastballs in the game in terms of a velocity standpoint.

00:06:44
Speaker 4: He's just getting hit really hard.

00:06:46
Speaker 2: And it's been kind of a struggle for the Cardinals pitching coach Dusty Blake and Ryan Helsley to figure out what's changed.

00:06:52
Speaker 4: I mean, that just kind of.

00:06:52
Speaker 2: Speaks to the volatility of being a reliever, especially a closer.

00:06:56
Speaker 4: Now.

00:06:56
Speaker 2: Just because Ryan Helsley is not as dominant as he was last year, doesn't mean his value has completely tanged.

00:07:02
Speaker 4: We know this. Any contending team is.

00:07:04
Speaker 2: Looking for high leverage, high octane relief pitching at the deadline. Could Ryan Helsley still command a return for the Cardinals. Absolutely, But if the Cardinals think that they can still contend and still compete in the second half and again sneaking to that wild card, they're not going to move him. Now that brings in the question, well, what are they going to do with him in the future. That's not a John Mozaeillac decision. That's a hind bloom decision. He'll take over the roster changes, of course, after the end of the twenty twenty five regular season. What the Cardinals have to way with Helsley specifically is are they built content in the next two months? Can they sneak into the second or the final wildcard spot. Is it worth holding on to Helsley to try to kind of reach that fever dream of a postseason or should they stick to status quo and focus on the future. If they decide to do that, I imagine they'll move Halsley.

00:07:53
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00:08:53
Speaker 3: If you think if they're looking to buy, is there anybody that's off limits? I know, and the past walker's been off limits and stuff like that. Are they still in the same boat with those guys?

00:09:02
Speaker 4: I think so.

00:09:03
Speaker 2: And I think what makes it that way is when you look at how this team is currently constructed. Is there one trade out there that all of a sudden makes this team a perennial contender? All of a sudden, You're thinking, Okay, the Cardinals can beat the Dodgers in a five game set, can beat the Phillies in a seven game set.

00:09:18
Speaker 4: In my opinion, not really.

00:09:20
Speaker 2: We don't know much about the market right now because there are so many teams like the Cardinals. The bubble teams if you will, that have not yet decided what their direction is going to be at the deadline. But I just look at this Cardinals team that is in transition where they are trying to figure out a lot about which guys can they build on their future, which guys are they going to move on from where it doesn't seem like there's someone that can go out there and add and automatically make them a surefire contender. And I don't think that John Mozelac and the Cardinals are going to trade away from this future, from this core that they've pledged on giving an entire season to figure out. So that's why I caution, whether it's buying or selling, I don't see the Cardinals really going big in either direction. You're maybe looking at an incremental rental if they buy, or a soft selloff if they sell. And again, guys, this series against the Rockies will probably dictate what they do.

00:10:09
Speaker 1: Well, Hey, if you're going to have a series that decides your season, I would raise my hand for the Rockies, even though they just played better against the Twins and took two out of three. If you ask most players, you pull them, Hey, who do you want with your season on the line. I think you'll get a lot of Rockies answers right now, but I'll backtrack for a moment to get granular on what just happened. What went wrong on their first series here after the All Star break.

00:10:31
Speaker 2: Well, it's you're only as good as your rotation is, as Lance knows, when you have a starting pitching staff that gives up five six runs before the third innings over and you have an offense that's not really clicking, and that really puts you in a hole. I mean, are Polante came out there, allowed six runs, five earned, and the first three innians. Sunny Gray gave up nine runs, eight earned in his outing on Saturday, and Miles Michaels gave up five runs and four innians, And it.

00:10:54
Speaker 4: Just felt like the Cardinals were competitively out of it before.

00:10:56
Speaker 2: They even really got a chance to start the game. And this rotation did a really nice job in the first half of you know, they're pitch to contact staff. We've talked about this about the Cardinals every year. Every now and then, balls are going to go through guys. Are you know you're not going to hit a guy every single time? The Cardinals starters did a nice job of weathering the storm and keeping the game or keeping the team in contention. In every game in July, that hasn't been the case. They have been hit really hard. Whether you're looking at Miles Michaelis, whether you're looking at Eric Betty STIDDI. Grays had some nice games, but as of late it hasn't been as effective. Matthew Libertor has already surpassed the amount of AN ANDC through last year. That's why Michael McGreevy a spot starting today to try to give him some sort of extended rest coming out of the break. So it just kind of feels like the perfect snowball of things not going right. That definitely happened in Arizona. It's really hard to play a competitive baseball game when your rotation isn't really giving you a chance from the start, and that's what happened in all three games.

00:11:51
Speaker 5: All right.

00:11:51
Speaker 1: Lastly, Katie, I hope you had a nice All Star break, although I think the last game that you recovered, if you happen to be there, went of halfway into the All Star break. I remember I was at dinner on what Sunday night and they had something going on. What was it the celebrity game or something like that, and the Cardinals game was still going. That was really kind of a microcosm of some of the weather that you dealt with in the first half of this season, didn't it.

00:12:21
Speaker 2: I don't know what the first half was, but I hope to never experience something like that again.

00:12:25
Speaker 4: I think we've set a record for Dovile Betters.

00:12:28
Speaker 2: I left Bush Stadium at like ten thirty the night before the All Star Break. I was I need to apologize to my fellow media members. Who I was that night was not a reflection of who I am as an employee.

00:12:39
Speaker 4: But we were very much over it.

00:12:42
Speaker 2: Okay, we were over it, and then we rolled into the All Star break and I don't know if you guys can tell, I caught the flu. So just all around vibes really not good. But you know what, We're going to grind it out. We'll play a little hurt today.

00:12:54
Speaker 4: It's all right.

00:12:55
Speaker 2: My second half starts today because I didn't do the Arizona series, and I'm hoping for just better all around, more positive vibes, no rain ever again, and maybe the Cardinals can figure it out to make things interesting over the final two months.

00:13:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that's all fair. And she just had her flu game flue performance just now.

00:13:12
Speaker 4: Today.

00:13:13
Speaker 5: Oh my god, there you go. Hey.

00:13:14
Speaker 1: If that doesn't impress Lance, I don't know what does.

00:13:18
Speaker 5: Lance.

00:13:19
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm impressed. It didn't keep her down. She did what she needed to do. So don't get any of the guys sick though.

00:13:32
Speaker 1: Distance distance, Katie, You're the best. Thank you so much. Feel better. We'll talk soon.

00:13:36
Speaker 4: Thanks, so good to see you, guys.

00:13:38
Speaker 5: Lance.

00:13:38
Speaker 1: Okay, hot corner time. All right, let's get into a little trade deadline discussion, shall we. We'll start with a team that I think will be incredibly popular no matter what they say. Michael Lias was on MLB Network Radio the other day and said that he will not be quote blowing up the team at the trade deadline. I mean, no crap. They're not selling a way the core players. We get that, but he said players on expiring contracts are at the top of the list. He will be passive about trading other players. This is Jacob calvin Meyer, who covers the team every day great on FT. When he's on with us, giving us a little summary of what went down, he said, we U this is Elias Now quote, we think we're going to be very good again in twenty twenty six. I mean, I don't disagree with anything he said there. Okay, not trading the core, got it. Trading away guys that are going to be free agents after this year, and maybe guys that are gonna be free agents after twenty six. We'll see. And then he thinks they're gonna be good. Yep, all makes sense. In twenty six he thinks they're gonna be They blow.

00:14:37
Speaker 6: It, man, They blow it a couple of years ago with everybody they had prospects wise. We've talked about this. I'm sick of talking about it.

00:14:44
Speaker 1: But now what's the next step is they actually have a lot of guys that they can trade away right now. I was on Baltimore Radio the other day and they wanted to know how far it goes. Like some of them on the hosts on the show were like, I think they should trade Felix Bautista, and I'm like, yep, Felix Bautista almost nothing right now. He's one of the best relievers in the sport. He's the closer of a team that you think is going to be good next year, and he's under control. For at least two more years after this year. As far as I know, Lance, why would you trade him? It's not like you find those guys on trees, and if you're getting him in the in free agency, there's they're rarely available even in free agency, and when they are, it costs a ton of money. So I'm like, is there a prospect package that even makes sense for him for me?

00:15:24
Speaker 4: No?

00:15:26
Speaker 3: No, no, definitely not, especially with your if you're competing next year, you can't.

00:15:30
Speaker 5: You can't.

00:15:31
Speaker 3: You can't lose that from your bullpen. I think it was pretty obvious. Hey, we're going to trade away with expiring contracts. Yeah, you do that. You get some you know, pitching depth, maybe some starter depth, and then you figure out what you got to do next off season to get some aces and to go with your young guys, and then you hope for some you know health. To be honest to you, I mean, they had they had a weird year and then you know their their free agent signings didn't work out. So regroup had the guys that don't expiring contracts, get as much as you can and then let that core go to work next year.

00:16:04
Speaker 1: With the good off season, you're keeping Felix Bautista.

00:16:08
Speaker 5: No, yeah, how is that even? Yeah?

00:16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like anyone that's it's in Baltimore that's thinking with that mindset is drinking too much of the prospect five year plan cooler now, I mean not this year, but your time is twenty six again.

00:16:27
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, could they be great? Yeah, but they I don't know the way their trajectory. I don't understand how they're not great.

00:16:35
Speaker 5: It's just well, you know, their brass needs to figure it out, man. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, they've had injuries. That's a great call, bad winner.

00:16:44
Speaker 6: But they've also had some injuries that are starters, which sucks to as well.

00:16:48
Speaker 5: So they didn't do anything well.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: They did things, they just did the wrong wrong.

00:16:53
Speaker 5: That's I don't know. They didn't do anything the good right. They banked on the starters they had.

00:17:00
Speaker 6: Scott Scott knows this. I told I said in b and here they're not going to make the playoffs. I said that they don't. They don't do anything right. From the brass perspective, I'm not blaming the players. I'm blaming the people up top.

00:17:11
Speaker 1: Transactions they missed. Yeah, they've done a nice job drafting and developing. But yeah, so basically from what he said, it's the Cedric Mullins, Ryan O'Hearn Sir Anthony de Mingez, gregorys Soto. These are all guys that I think are free agents after this year. Those types of players make sense for me. Ramon Loriano does have an option for next year, but I would think you know you're catching him when his stocks at the highest you want to make a case on him. Okay, you can find someone like that. I don't think you're finding a Felix Bautista that easily. So to me, if you're doing that, you're resetting the trajectory. I know it's one player, but that's eliminating an inning for you throughout a season and in the playoffs, because the other thing lance is that they haven't won a playoff game during this run. So again, if you're good next year, you better not get to a point where you're looking for high leverage bullpen help and you're blowing games late because you traded Felix Bautista. They traded Brian Baker, who was more of a you know, late bloomer.

00:18:10
Speaker 3: Great story.

00:18:11
Speaker 1: They were able to get them right right and then move them to the Rays with multiple years of team control. For me, I'm not even doing that. Like you know how it is, like some teams are really good at finding and developing bullpen guys and then for me, I know that it's volatile, but like sometimes guys click in the right place and they can be really valuable for like a three to five year period like in their prime for you. So I'm holding on to all of that. If I'm a contender, I'm not trading that away.

00:18:38
Speaker 5: No, I'm with you.

00:18:39
Speaker 3: If you have team control beyond next year, you don't get rid of them with what they have, and then you figure out get as much as you can for anybody who you don't see being there next year, it's going to be a free agent, and then you got to go all in next offseason. You got to go get the arms. You kind of look at what Houston did years ago when they went and got Cole Verland or all that. It's time for them to go all in and spa some money and make sure you lock up that young core too, because those guys are starting to trickle into where they're going to make some money and if you don't have them locked in, then you're you're doing all this for nothing and then you're looking at a full, full retool again. So it's time for them to go for sure. And I, like you said, I think they missed the boat this offseason with that core. They should have had a little different did a different go out, especially with their starters.

00:19:22
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do one more. We're focusing on bullpen for this segment. Ken Rosenthal came out with his latest Notes column. He has Fair Territory that's out right now. If you want to consume that podcast, YouTube, whatever, obviously, just look up Fair Territory. But also we'll talk to him about this Notes column tomorrow. Here's one that I want to dive into for a moment. The Athletics resolved to keep Mason Miller could be subject to change, sources telling Ken a year ago, Miller was untouchable.

00:19:49
Speaker 5: To this point.

00:19:49
Speaker 1: The a's matching this season is pretty much the same, but according to sources telling Ken, the team's plans that stance is subject to change the way they see it. Only a few teams are bold in to propose an author offer worthy of consideration. Philly's Dodgers Yankees figure to be near the top of the suitors list. For the flamethrowing reliever, while the Padres and Mariners can never be counted out when top talent becomes available. To me, this means we went from zero percent chance to like ten to twenty percent chance. That still means that he went from unavailable to available. You want to entice them. He's now available. So this is not necessarily like their big closer. They're going to build around.

00:20:27
Speaker 5: How many years as they have left before everything.

00:20:30
Speaker 1: Before free agency or yeah, before free agency, he probably still has.

00:20:35
Speaker 3: He going into our one after the shoot.

00:20:37
Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah, I think he's still on the league. Man, I'll get that free in one set. Probably three or four years left until he's let's see earliest free agent year twenty thirty and are of eligible twenty six.

00:20:52
Speaker 5: Yep, all right, perfect, go after.

00:20:55
Speaker 6: If this is the case, whether it's ten, twelve, one, two, seventeen, eighty five percent, I don't care. This is where a team like the Orioles per Se give three prospects for this big dog.

00:21:07
Speaker 5: You know. No, I'm just saying because they got it.

00:21:11
Speaker 6: If you have an opportunity to get a guy here for four or five years through arbitration, this guy is the most premier closer in baseball. He's filthy, I mean Yankees, Philly's dog. Yeah, of course the big games are looking throw an extra guy in there. I've always said this man, I've always talked about this what's his name? For the Red Sox, the lefty they got from the White Sox pitch they were killing me, the Boston fans. I said, give them five prospects, you know, and they almost did. Actually I was almost fright, but at the same time for right, Yeah, go ahead and go after a guy. These young guys you have down there, their prospects for a reason. Give them to a team who thinks they can build them up and make them better. This is an opportunity to get a freaking monster monster play if it's the case.

00:22:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, although the A's should eventually keep some guys.

00:22:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, you keep them when you're ready to go to Vegas, right, I mean the question is when are they ever going to make a push? And I don't see it in his time? So why not get as many prospects as you can when you look on the other way, right, you try to get five prospects for him that you can next thing, you know, three of those five hit and then you've got a better ball club, but this guy's prime or his cheap years, you're probably not going to compete. So it's similar with what's going on with Skiens in Pittsburgh. Man, you're just wasting away. And then you know if you wait too long and you never compete, then you might not get anything for him. So get as much as you can and then you go from there.