Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep46 - Why Puppies Pee In The House Even When They've Just Been Outside

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I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist.

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And this is a Puppy Culture
potluck podcast.

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You bring the topics,

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we bring the conversation.

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This episode's question

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is from our discussion group
for our puppy course,

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and it's about house training.

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I'm just going to read the question

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because it folds in a lot of interesting
topics.

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Hello.

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Our 15 week old puppy is presenting
some potty training challenges.

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The breeder started him on puppy pads.

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We've transitioned him to a litter box

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and are following the Puppy Culture
training protocol.

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However,
we've encountered a persistent issue

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while he's reliably house
trained for bowel movements,

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he frequently urinates on rugs,

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likely because they resemble the puppy
pads he's familiar with.

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More puzzling than that even,

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when we take him outside
at the recommended intervals,

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he'll pass small amounts of urine
and then refuse to empty

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his bladder fully,
even after ten minutes or more.

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Inevitably,
within 20 minutes of coming back

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inside, he'll urinate on a rug.

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This pattern repeats daily.

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We are not sure what we're doing wrong,

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or if this is just to be expected
and to be patient.

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It does seem like
he thinks that rugs is the place to pee.

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Let me know if you have any tips.

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Okay.

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Me again.

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First of all, the double peeing

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is totally a thing
and we do cover it in the course.

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And I did tell her to go back
and listen to that section again.

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But let me just say,
this is a very classic pattern

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where puppies get control
of their bowels first, because remember,

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she said he seems to be able
to hold his poop, but not in his pee.

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But then they go through this phase
where they'll pee outside

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and then come inside
and pee right away, again.

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Now, you know,

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they'll always say,
rule out the physical first and

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for sure, if this is a puppy that has been

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not double peeing, in other words,
has been relieving himself outside

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and then coming in and not peeing again
in 20 minutes, and all of a sudden he's

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coming inside and peeing a little bit
frequently every ten

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15 minutes,
you know, that is probably a UTI.

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And you do want to check that box off
and get a, you know,

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a urine sample in for a urinary tract
infection.

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And I'd be leaning more that way,
as I say, if it was a regression.

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But this, I confirmed it
with the student, was not a regression.

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This is just the way that this puppy is.

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The puppies never really been able
to fully relieve himself outside

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and then go for a long time
inside without urinating.

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But then the student wrote

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in, in response to my advice,

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and this is what she said.

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Thanks for this info.

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I will be sure to ask about UTIs
at his next visit.

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There is some additional info that to me

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makes it seem less likely to be a UTI, ie.

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We've been doing the puppy kegels
for a few weeks now, and he's very able

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to stay in his kennel
for a full two hour nap with no anxiety

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or accidents.

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Okay, so me again.

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First of all, puppy Kegels is a phase

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in our house training system where

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you're starting to challenge
the puppy slightly as far as holding it.

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I'm not going to go into the whole thing.

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It's in the course.

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But the point is, in this student's mind,

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the fact that her puppy could sleep

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for two hours in a crate
without needing to pee equals

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he should be able to be loose in the house
for two hours

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without needing to pee,
which is not at all true.

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Holding

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your bladder or your puppy's bladder

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while you sleep is completely different
than holding your bladder

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or your puppy's bladder
while you're active.

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When we or our puppies sleep, our bodies

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produce
increased levels of antidiuretic hormone,

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which greatly reduces urine output.

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So if you think about how many times a day
you need to pee during an eight hour

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work day, when you go into that office,
how many times do you go and pee?

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A lot.

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I would venture to guess
more than once or twice.

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I would venture to guess, it's
a lot of times.

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Yet most of us sleep through the night
without peeing

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or we pee only once.

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This is why your puppy

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has to pee more frequently during the day.

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And this is also why your puppy pees
when he comes back in

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the house and he's excited.

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The fun

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and excitement of being inside,
especially if playing

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produces adrenaline
which sensitizes the bladder.

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So it's not only a question
of the production of urine

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not being suppressed,
the bladder is actually activated.

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So it's a very long way of saying

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that it's normal
for a puppy to hold it while sleeping,

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yet legitimately still pee in the house.

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Just as an aside,
some people don't produce

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a lot of that antidiuretic hormone,

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and they need to get up many times
a night to pee.

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But normally
most people won't need to get up at all.

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Or maybe once they'll get up.

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Yet another aside,
as you and your dog age,

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you often will produce less of that
antidiuretic hormone at night,

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which is why older people and dogs
often need to go more frequently.

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But the
main point here is that sleeping in

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a crate is a biological context

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that is very, very different
from being awake and active.

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And it's completely normal for a 15 week
old puppy to pee outside

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and then come inside and pee again
within a few minutes,

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especially if he's playing or excited.

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Those states of emotional arousal
stimulate the bladder

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and urine production, and make it harder
for the puppy to hold it.

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I'm going to put aside

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specific advice for house training
because that's what the course is about.

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But I want to reassure any puppy

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owner listening to this that

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for a 15 week old puppy,
double pees are normal.

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A puppy's ability
to hold urine depends on the context,

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and you can't set the bar
for how long a puppy can hold urine,

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by how long he can nap
without needing to get up and pee.

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Now, the thing that I did not

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talk about yet
is the peeing on the fabric.

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And that really is a thing.

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And it can be a thing for two reasons.

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The first,
and more universal reason is that

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puppies naturally don't
want urine splashing on their feet,

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so they won't like peeing on hard surfaces
like floors

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where the urine could either splash
on their feet or roll on their feet.

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So they're going to seek out things
that are soft

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that will absorb that urine.

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Also.

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And we point this out in the puppy course,

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they'll often look for deeper substrates.

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So when they're outside,

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they're going to want to go
into a little bit of a deeper grass.

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And when they're inside,
they might want to go into something

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like a crumpled blanket or something
that has a little depth to it.

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That seems to stimulate the urination.

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It's a trick if you're walking your puppy
and he won't pee.

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Try getting him into a little higher
grass.

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Just having that tickling feeling on his
abdomen often will stimulate him to pee.

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We have a whole area in front of the house
that has pachysandra,

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and whenever I have to take my puppies
to go out some place, like into the car,

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I'll always take them to the pachysandra
to pee first.

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It becomes almost a conditioned
emotional response for them.

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To the point where my adult dogs
that I'm taking to go in the car,

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I just take them over to that pee patch
where the pachysandra is,

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and they immediately pee.

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Now, the other thing

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about the fabric that can be a problem

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is if the breeder has used

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fabric pee pads for too long.

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We use fabric pee-pads
in the whelping box.

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And then when we transition
our puppies to the weaning pen,

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we start by lining the weaning pen
with those fabric pads.

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But we fade them very quickly

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because if you leave them down too long

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and the puppies
get used to peeing on fabric,

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they can wind up targeting
fabric to pee on.

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And you don't want that.

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I mean, it's a handy thing
to have them understand

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those pee pads again
as they get older and incontinent.

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Or if you ever have to leave them
for a space of time

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and you just want to put down a pad
for them to pee on,

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it is a handy thing
to have in your back pocket.

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But as a

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breeder, you do want to fade them quickly
because otherwise

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you can wind up having a puppy that looks
for things like quilts to pee on,

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which is not helpful for the puppy owner.

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There was one

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final thing
that the puppy owner brought up

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that she thought her puppy
was only marking outside

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and not peeing
because he would pee a little bit outside

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and lift a leg actually, at 15 weeks

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old, sometimes.

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I can't say I haven't seen the behavior
with the puppy.

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I think 15 weeks is very early

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for a puppy to be lifting their leg,
but it's not unheard of.

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However, I think

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if the puppy's not relieving himself
fully,

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it has more to do with being super excited
being outside.

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Ten minutes may seem like a long time
to you, when it's cold outside

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and you're waiting and trying
to get that puppy to pee, but you know,

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a lot of puppies are just too distracted

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to really eliminate
when they're outside fully.

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So again, that can contribute
to that double peeing,

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peeing a little outside
and then peeing again inside.

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And like I said,
there is the physiological thing of it

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takes a while for that wiring to happen
where they really can

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fully evacuate their bladder.

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I will say that

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when I'm taking a puppy
someplace that I anticipate

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is going to be an exciting event,
like class,

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you know, I'm going to try
and get them to pee before they go in,

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but I'm going to expect

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they're not going to pee
before they go in, they’re too excited.

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They just want to get in the building.

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But I am also going to expect that
within 5 to 10 minutes

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of being in that building that need to
urinate is going to overtake them.

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So, when I'm taking a puppy to a class,

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I will try and get them to pee outside,
bring them in the building

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for 5 or 10 minutes,
bring them outside again

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nine times out of ten that second trip
outside is when the puppy's going to pee.

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And if it doesn't happen the second trip,
I will try it again in 5 to 10 minutes.

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You know,
this is really what we teach in our puppy

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training course is that you
kind of have to roll with the punches.

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This is why we say always

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give your puppy access to a good option.

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This is why we use a litter box to an age
when a lot of people would say,

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oh, you know,
this puppy could be house trained.

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He doesn't need a litter box,

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but we never want our puppies

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to be put in a position
where they don't have a good option

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and yes, theoretically,

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you could cover all the bases with a 15
week old puppy and do all the right things

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and make sure that they stay out
long enough that they pee,

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or you bring them in
and then bring them out again.

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And, you know,

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you could cover all these bases
if you are watching the puppy constantly.

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But really, how miserable is that?

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And how likely are you to succeed?

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So my ultimate advice to this puppy owner,

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or to anyone who's experiencing
something similar,

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is that; A.

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Double pees
where the puppy goes outside and pees

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and comes back inside and pees right away
again,

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are developmentally normal.

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B. A puppy's ability

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to hold urine depends on the context.

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C. You cannot set the bar

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for how long a puppy can hold urine,

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by how long he can nap in his crate
without needing to pee

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because it's a different
biological context.

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And, D.

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Because there is this legitimate
developmental period where the puppy is

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in a state of flux, where sometimes
he can hold it and sometimes he can't.

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Sometimes he's going to be able
to go outside and fully

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evacuate his bladder, and sometimes he's
not going to be able to,

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and he's going to come
and pee in the house right away again,

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because sometimes they're puppies
and it's cold and they don't want to

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go outside.

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It's dark and they're scared
and they don't want to go outside.

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It's raining, it's windy,
and you don't want to stand outside.

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Because of all this,

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you need an indoor potty area

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for this puppy,
so he always has a good choice

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until he just matures out of this period,
which he will.

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He will mature
past this developmental period.

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If you just don't push too hard
on the intensive

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phase and ruin it,

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because once you push the puppy
to the point where

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he gets in the habit of peeing inside,
now you have a real problem.

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Right now you don't have a problem.

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You have a puppy, legitimately,

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that is in a developmental phase
that you can deal with.

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If you don't give the puppy
a good option inside and he continues

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to pee inside - now you have an adult dog
that has a habit of peeing inside.

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So again,
it's counterintuitive for people.

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They think they're winning if they can get
rid of the potty area faster.

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But hand to my heart, trust me,

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I've done it scores of times.

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Keep the potty area
until the puppy is reliably going outside.

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He will potty train himself.

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If you liked this

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00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,960
podcast, you'll love our puppy course,
With Open Arms

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00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,040
and a Level Head:
How to Welcome a Puppy into Your Life.

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00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,560
Available at puppyculture.com.

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00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,360
And while you're there,
check out our bundles.

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00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,360
We have puppy owner bundles, breeder
bundles,

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00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,520
show puppy bundles, show breeder bundles.

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00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,520
Check them all out at puppyculture.com.

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00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,120
Breeders.

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00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,320
Do you want to get your puppy
owner started off on the right foot?

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00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,240
Check out our breeder discounts
on multiple copies of our Puppy Course

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00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,600
at puppyculture.com.

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00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,680
Well, that's it for this time.

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Thanks for listening. Bye bye.