E345-Dog Owners Do This to Stop Stress — It Actually Makes It Worse

[SPEAKER_00]: I love dogs, and I'm a professional dog trainer, and recently I had a client that I worked with really kind of blew my mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that we were talking about, which we've discussed before, by the way, guys, welcome back to the NoBed Dogs podcast, and my second YouTube channel if you're watching this on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where, and if you're new here, thank you for hanging out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Tom Davis, a professional dog trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, we have over 300 other episodes that you guys should check out with different guests and different topics, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: But...
[SPEAKER_00]: This I was working with this client online yesterday.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do online consulting you call in we talk about your dog for an hour and this I don't know if it's in a piphany, but it was this Whoa, I think dog owners really need to have context on this because they don't Understand it they don't think about it
[SPEAKER_00]: And she had a problem with her dog that was really like shutting down and pancaking if you guys have ever had a dog that when you try to get them to go into a the car or going to walk or going to the vet even or they just pancake and they're like you know they won't move well that's what this dog did and.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how I want to go down this road.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had worked with four other previous trainers, all in which we're using positive reinforcement training, which there's nothing wrong with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I use positive reinforcement 99.9% of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem that they were running into, and this is where it gets really frustrating for me as a dog owner first, and then of course a trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's frustrating because they had been working on this particular thing for so long.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were working the behaviors, of course, behaviors gave the dog meds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, if the dog needs the meds, there's nothing wrong with that either.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they were trying to get the dog to go into the car, and they were on a back-tide harness, I believe, so harness that goes like on the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: They were basically the dog was shut down and then they would lose the opportunity to, and this whole podcast is on my actual podcast if you guys want to listen to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, I can pull it up right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be episode number, what episode is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: if you guys want to listen to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not about her at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a lovely human being.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's episode 342.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a lovely human being as nothing to do with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just like the concept of where dog owners get locked into and it's set.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I think dog owner
[SPEAKER_00]: It's frustrating, dog trainer in me, it's sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they had a harness on the dog, fairly big dog pit bull, and the dog was shutting down, locking in, and they were really frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to the point where they were looking all over the internet, they found me, they paid me, they called me and they said, hey, we need help, we've worked on this for years, we've worked with four other trainers, we've worked with the behavior, it's like nothing's getting better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the frustrating thing is,
[SPEAKER_00]: is I was like the the dog is making all of the decisions the dog you don't know if the dog doesn't want to do it or the dog is afraid to do it because the dog holds all the cards so the dog was on a leash the dog pancake and the owners had this conversation you know with the dog and then the dog would win of course
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the only thing you can really do with the dog on a harness, you can't even pull on because the harness is going to go over them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now they're going to be running around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are reactive to boot as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were really nervous about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it really was just blue my mind that out of all of the trainers, they didn't recommend, so there's two parts to this story that really, that's why I wanted to sit down and talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you guys hear my son upstairs running around playing, um, that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't kidnap anybody, it's just he's just upstairs screaming running around.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the thing is is they, I started talking about
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, let's start with a martingale collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a martingale collar, I have one right here, is essentially this collar right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be metal, most of them actually are cloth, but it has this little action on it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, let's start with a martingale and let's just give the dog a little bit of pressure just to get up, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I said, there's, and again, to you guys, and I'm trying to unpack this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So forgive me, my ADHD brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really, again, frustrated because I said when the dog is reacting, you've never done anything about it, that you've never communicated with the dog what they're doing is wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, and she was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, yeah, you're absolutely right, and again, this is not about the dog owner, whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the whole situation that a lot of dog owners like her get into.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know I was explaining I said look you've been working on this for so long and the reason why you haven't progressed is because you're you're not addressing the issue you're not addressing what's going on right so the dog would react they would pull the dog back the dog would react we pull the dog back and of course working with reactive dogs for over 13 years every day
[SPEAKER_00]: that only creates more anxiety, more stress, more insecurity, and more frustration to then react harder, faster, bigger, longer, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all the things we don't want, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But also the dog is making all the decisions which then of course ruins the dog's confidence in you and your relationship and it just keeps you know spiraling.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a car accident that you can't
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, the other kind of like epiphany moment I had was the dog owner, I said, let's start with a Martin Gale caller.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just as a sidebar, if you at home are watching and you ever have a dog that pancakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you don't want to do is turn around have a conversation with the dog because two things the dog Immediately has has now taught you and conditioned you that if they don't want to do something all they have to do is pancake You stop train stops you have a conversation it doesn't matter what you're saying You could say hey buddy we're gonna go get ice cream.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey buddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna They don't care about that and actually that makes things a hundred times worse
[SPEAKER_00]: So what you want to do is just turn around and keep walking, but as you're walking, what you're doing is you're adding this kind of bump, bump, bump, bump, bump.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're kind of like, got your back and you're doing this like, let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're just doing this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And nine times at a top 10, the dog just goes, okay, fine, and they get up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they realize, when they stop, you're not gonna turn around and have a conversation, it doesn't slow the walk down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when they stop, the other thing about adding that pressure is you're making it about, do you make, you're letting the dog make the decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: to go with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah they stop and they don't want to keep walking at that moment because and it could be for many reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many reasons, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But the idea is you're just walking across the street in your dogs as I can't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course they can.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it'd be different if you were trying to get them to jump through a ring of fire with lines and tigers around and we're not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so anyway that's just a sidebar that works really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that she said
[SPEAKER_00]: prior to the conversation of the Martin Gale is she said that when her dog was jumping into the car or she had a hard time getting her dog into the car and so she would have to grab the dog, bear her the dog and basically put the dog in and there were many times where the dog would grow and turn around and snap and get kind of gnarly, never bitter but put his mouth on her.
[SPEAKER_00]: and so she so so there's that right and I was like oh that sounds you know and she she's worried and concerned and I said yeah that's it doesn't surprise me but it's not ideal you know you don't want that to happen right but once we started talking about the Martin Gale
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she had it in her mind, which a lot of dog owners do, which is why I'm making this is she was like, well, I feel really, I don't feel comfortable using a Martin Gale, and I said, okay, well, because I don't want the dog to slip out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not really how this is kind of, it's not how it works, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog can track and as long as the collar is fit properly, it can't really come off.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I say what you should do is you should move to a slip leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: right so a slip leash I don't have one of those here unfortunately but a slip leash is a slip leash right it just fully engages and so I said you should use a slip leash and that way you don't have to worry about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No bad dog slip leash has a spring loaded tap, you get a nice and snug the dog can't back out of it right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so one of the things she said, she's like, I don't know about the slip leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, I think I think she said, I used it once and the dog didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she started laughing and she said, but it's not about the dog or it's not about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about the dog, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because she didn't like the way that the dog perceived it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, you know, there is some validity to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, one thing I reminded her, she's like, I don't wanna, like, isn't the, I don't know if the dog's gonna like that or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I'm trying to drive this idea home.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, whenever I sit down and do these, it's just very, I don't write down ideas.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think of, I think people should hear about this in my thoughts, and maybe it's helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was to me, I was like, wait a minute, hold on.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is interesting, and profound, really, to me, I was like, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't realize that you having to basically hog tie your dog and put your dog into the car to a point where they're growling and snapping back at you, and you're worried about getting bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't realize that that particular situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: is a hundred times more stressful, you know, more potentially damaging to your relationship, more conflicting than adding a little bit of pressure to help your dog through a situation safely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it has nothing to do with this owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, she's lovely.
[SPEAKER_00]: She reached out for help.
[SPEAKER_00]: I particularly don't like people who they talked.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to, and I hope you understand that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just had this like, because dog owners do this all the time, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they come in and they say, this is an enormous amount of stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is unwakable, the dog is dangerous, the dog is bitten somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all these things accumulate into this melting pot and this pressure cooker of stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the hesitancy to add a little bit of discomfort to a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: To end all of that is most often times in my case like, whoa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, are we not on the same planet right now because I'm really confused, you know, and I had a dog and the reason, you know, why this gets a little bit more granular, I had a dog, it's on my Instagram, Reels, Pinned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a dog Australian Shepherd that came to my facility to train with me that had you know like when you like travel and you get like a ziplock bag full of like your vitamins and your stuff like the dog came in with that much medication It was like seven to eight pills a day Dog is basically a zombie because they had worked
[SPEAKER_00]: They've never told the dog no.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they had struggled with leash reactivity for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, something, some of the biggest reactions I've ever seen from a dog flipping up in the air, landing on their own back, like, gnarly stuff, unwalkable.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the point was, is the dog's quarters all levels and the dog's stress and the stress of the people were 10 out of 10, 11 out of 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: So high.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were talked out of using corrections for the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead they used medication to, you know, turn the dog into a puddle and still react.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reactions were less because the dog was drugged.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the dog still was, you know, doing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's on my reals.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't, I mean, you can, I would pull it up, but it's not gonna look good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I corrected the dog once or twice and we went on a walk with another dog that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the owners were, I think, you know, it was eye opening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even if they laughed and they still had reactions in the future, it was like, at that moment, it was like this, that's all it took.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is the video that I had this epiphany where dog owners don't realize the significance of putting their dogs through an enormous amount of stress by kind of dancing around you actually adding stress to the dog to then stop all of the stress, if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it wasn't that equation laid out where the dog owner and many dog owners I've worked with were like oh no that that doesn't make sense to me it was just once I laid it out like you know you lay in on your dog and potentially getting bit and your dog growling in your face is here and then you correcting your dog for doing something
[SPEAKER_00]: Stress level is here.
[SPEAKER_00]: The difference is forcing teaching, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is sustainable.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would have to do this every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd have to fight your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is teaching, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was in particular very eye opening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it happened just this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoa, you know, I should probably talk about this because I just don't think dog owners connect like this particular dog owner was like, oh, I wouldn't want to like I don't know about the slip it's like kind of stressful for the dog and I was like
[SPEAKER_00]: stressful.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we talking about here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and then, you know, she was on board and, and I wish them the best, and, and again, she was great, and I, I'm sure they're going to be successful moving forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is not a, you know, video on her or anything, but I was just, I think they just, I've seen that so many times where dog owners are
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so underwater that they don't even realize what they're saying, and the grants like if you zoom all the way out, I don't think they realize what's actually going on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and sometimes it's unfortunately because they've been talked, they've just been uneducated and they've been talked about like,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, never do this or never do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you listen to that podcast, that was one of the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, well, you've been doing this for four, you know, four years now or more.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're in the same boat for a reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not working, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to change gears.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was just really interesting to me that
[SPEAKER_00]: that had happened and I wanted to i believe this is this whole podcast is just become like a journal for me now i just i don't know i i just wanted to talk about it i'd love to know from you guys at home like your thoughts on this if you've ever dealt with something like this if you're a trainer and you've you've seen this and i think it's just part of being blind
[SPEAKER_00]: And ignorant, maybe is the right word too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely not stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely not irresponsible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely not lack of empathy or compassion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think these two things are separated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, me, I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are connected for sure, like if we're talking about stress and conflict, what you're doing here is a thousand times more of that than teaching your dog with a collar that's meant to just give you a little bit more communication power.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was pretty interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to put this out, but thank you guys for watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it was helpful and insightful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll talk to you guys and have a conversation with you on the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.