Swift Quakes and new podcast music inspired by the fine-structure constant

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- <silence>

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- Hello and welcome to the
Physics World Stories podcast.

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I'm Andrew Gluster, and you
might be thinking, hang on,

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isn't that a new jingle?

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Of course you are. Right.

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And later in the podcast we'll
be hearing about the physics

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behind it and how it was created
by Professor Philip Morty.

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But first, you may have heard in the news

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about Taylor Swift fans causing
seismic activity at concerts

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during her era tour.

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Here's Jackie Kaplan ach.

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- I am a professor

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of geophysics at Western
Washington University.

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Um, I'm sort of a seism,
I'm a seismologist by trade,

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so I mostly study earthquakes.

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Um, the earthquakes I study are
usually in volcanic systems,

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so I'm sort of a volcano seismologist.

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And then a lot of what I do
in my research is, you know,

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earthquakes in some respects
are sort of a type of sound,

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but we also listen to, to genuinely

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to sound in these systems.

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So I do acoustics as
well of volcanic systems.

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So listening to volcanoes, listening

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to the sounds they make, um,

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and trying to understand what they did.

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- We're gonna get onto music,

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but I'm, you've made me
interested in that now.

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So what <laugh> what,

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what can we learn from
the sound of volcanoes?

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- So let's start with earthquakes.

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'cause as I said, they
are a type of sound.

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Um, in some of the waves in
earthquakes are, you know,

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compressional waves that, that are

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very much like sound waves.

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Um, and just

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whenever there's something
that, that moves in the earth,

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it can generate those waves.

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And so usually in earthquakes,

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or excuse me, in volcanic
systems, that would be

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magma moving underground and
rising toward the surface.

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So their precursory to an eruption,

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we see these earthquakes.

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Um, it might be flowing,
it might be, you know,

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while the magmas flowing as
opposed to cracking rock,

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it might be gases moving
in the system, all

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of which just cause the ground to shake.

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Those can also though act into the air.

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So, for example, when a volcano
is actively erupting, it

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of course generates sound.

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Sometimes we cannot see,
um, erupting volcanoes.

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They may be in very remote areas,

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so hearing them might be our best

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indication of what they're doing.

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I study, um, some

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of the volcanoes I study
are submarine volcanoes.

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They're under the oceans,
so we don't know if they're

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erupting at all because we can't see them,

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and there's nobody anywhere close to them.

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We don't have instruments on most of them,

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but sound travels really, really
effectively in the oceans.

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And so consequently, we can listen to, um,

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to these eruptions around
from all over the oceans

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and just get a sense, even
for as simple a question as

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how often do they erupt?

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Where do they erupt, where
are there active eruptions?

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And what are those eruptions like?

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A lot of that we can get from sound.

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- Brilliant. And the other thing

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that you've been doing
some research into is, uh,

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Taylor Swift concerts. Why, how,

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- Why, why and how is
a really good question.

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Um, not the direction I saw
my research going at all.

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Um, it actually starts
not with something I did.

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The story starts actually
quite a bit of, um,

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a while ago in 2011,
during a football game,

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American football game,
right at, uh, in Seattle

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during a very exciting
play, um, where the, uh, um,

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the, you know, the, the Seattle
team Seahawks were playing

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against the New Orleans Saints

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and the running back who
we refer to as Beast Mode.

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Marshawn Lynch broke
through the defensive line,

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scored a touchdown, and
the crowd went so nuts

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that it was recorded
by a local seismometer,

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and we refer to that as the beast quake.

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So it was just the crowd being so excited.

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This was noticed by a seismologist
in Seattle at the time.

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And to be fair,

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there's a seismometer very
close to that stadium.

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So anytime something
happens at the stadium,

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the seismometer does pick it up.

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And so fast forward to 2023, somebody, I,

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I'm a moderator in a
Facebook group for people

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who are interested in earthquakes
in the Pacific Northwest.

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And, uh, somebody wrote in

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and said, Hey, you know, is,

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is Taylor Swift concert making
a beast quake right now?

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You know, and I thought, well,

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that's an interesting question.

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We haven't looked at concerts

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before, uh, at least I hadn't,
turns out other people had.

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So I went, you know, the,
the data are freely available

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to anybody who wants to look at them.

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So I went ahead and downloaded them and,

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and boom, I mean, there was a
huge signal from this concert.

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Um, not only that,

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this was actually the second
night she played two concerts.

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And so I downloaded both of 'em.

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And what was immediately obvious is

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that they were absolutely identical.

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The way the ground shook. It
was a really interesting thing

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because we don't really know
why the ground, we haven't,

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at least in the past, known why the

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ground shakes during these.

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Is it the crowd jumping up and down?

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Is it the stadium resonating

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because of their behavior in this case?

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Was it the amplified
music? Was it the bass?

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Was it the drums?

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Um, so that was sort of the
first piece of the puzzle is,

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well, what's identical on the two nights?

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So I found that intriguing
and kept looking,

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- Presumably with the American football,

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there's no amplification there,

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right? That's just the people.

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- Correct. So we knew in that case, okay,

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that was obviously the crowd.

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And truly one of the reasons

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that I started looking at
this was there are some

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bragging rights involved here.

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You know, who shook the ground more?

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And when I first said, you know, wow,

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the ground's shaking way more
in this concert than it did in

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the beast quake, there
was a little bit of, um,

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unhappiness on the part of
some of the football fans

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who said, yeah, well, we
didn't have amplified music,

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we didn't have all these electronics.

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Obviously that's, you know, that's,

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that's why the Taylor
Swift concert was louder.

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So that was a part of why I was
interested in looking at it.

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Who wins, you know, and are
they right? Um, yes and no.

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So they're absolutely
right that they didn't have

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amplified sound.

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Um, but it turns out

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that when you dive into the
signal a little bit more

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for the concerts, there's
really two different signals

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that we're seeing in
terms of the seismology.

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So when we look at earthquake
waves or when we look,

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'cause these are earthquake waves, right?

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These are seismic waves.
The ground is shaking.

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Um, we look at the different frequencies

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at which the ground shakes.

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And what we could see really
clearly during the concert was

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that there was very, very,

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very strong low frequency shaking.

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And what I mean by that is
somewhere between about one

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and five or one

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and eight hertz, there
was also a lot of signal

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that was much higher
around, say, 30 to 80 hertz.

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This particular in instrument
is only recording data up

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to 100 hertz.

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So really this is the
very lowest frequencies

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that humans can hear.

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You know, we, we say humans
can hear 20 to 20,000.

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It's probably more like
50 to 15, you know,

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but this would be base, if anything

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or, so it's not, we're not
hearing Taylor Swift's voice,

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but potentially, of course
there are low frequency signals

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that come in the bass and the drum,

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and of course in all the,
all the, um, the music.

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But again, we had these two
really specific categories.

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The thing that was really
interesting right off the bat was

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that if I looked at those
very, very low frequencies,

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they change their, they,

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they stay at a very constant
frequency for about three

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to four minutes at a time.

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And then it shifts to
another low frequency, uh,

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different frequency for three
to four minutes at a time.

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And that went of course,
throughout the concert.

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So three to four minutes
being the duration

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of your average pop song,
that was kind of a nice hint

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that this had to do with the music.

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Further, if we look at the
frequency at which we saw the

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ground shaking and compared
it to published tempos

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of these songs, you could see
that it matched identically,

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which, what the tempo of the song was.

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So, you know, for example,
there's the song ready for it,

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which turns out to have,
um, you know, the number

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of beats per minute is somewhere

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around about 160 beats per minute.

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And when we look at the
frequency of ground shaking,

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the strongest signal is about 2.6 hertz,

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which is consistent with that rhythm.

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We've got other songs,
you know, don't blame me,

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136 beats per minute.

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And sure enough, the strongest
signal we see is 2.2 hertz,

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which is that consistent with that.

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So that's clearly the song.

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Now that doesn't tell us
if it's the crowd dancing

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or if it's the music still.

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However, we had two ways
we could look at this.

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There was a portion of each concert

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where Taylor Swift plays, um,
what she calls surprise songs.

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And at this point, the
band leaves the stage

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and it's just Taylor Swift
with a guitar or a piano.

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So we no longer have,
you know, it, you know,

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the, the bass and the drum.

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And in fact, she comes out

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and says, welcome to the
acoustic part of the evening.

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So we know we're in the acoustic
part where we simply have,

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I mean, of course it's amplified,
but it's not electronic.

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And at that point, uh, we can test, right?

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Is are those low frequencies still there?

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And in some cases, absolutely, yes.

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If it's a danceable song that
she is playing acoustically,

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there are still low frequencies.

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There are other songs that
are just not danceable songs.

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There's, they're ballads, right?

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They're things that people
may be sort of swaying

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to or singing along.

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And whether the band is out there

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or not, we just don't see
those low frequencies.

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Finally, there are some songs

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where we see a very dramatic
change in the amplitude

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of those low frequency signals.

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I was very lucky to be handed
an enormous amount of data

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by very enthusiastic
concertgoers swifties.

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It turns out we'll just do
anything for Taylor Swift,

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and particularly for Taylor Swift Science.

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And I was inundated

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with emails from people
saying, how can I help?

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Do you want my videos?
Do you want my photos?

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And if I take these videos

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that these incredibly
generous people gave to me,

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I can see right when the
seismic signal gets stronger,

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I can see the crowd dancing
more, dancing more dramatically.

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You can see them tire over time and taper,

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and sure enough, the amplitude drops

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and then another chorus happens

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and it jumps into they jump again.

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And sure enough, the
seismic signal cranks up.

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So pretty clear sign
that that's the crowd.

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Now we also have this 30
to 80 hertz stuff, right,

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that we think, again,

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with changes in character
every three to four minutes.

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So also likely related to this stuff,

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when we go into the acoustic
section, that stuff goes away.

247
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So that makes it pretty
clear that that is the music

248
00:11:00,075 --> 00:11:01,165
that is the band.

249
00:11:01,585 --> 00:11:04,965
So back to that original
question of is it the crowd?

250
00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:07,325
Do, is there an amplified system?

251
00:11:07,945 --> 00:11:10,285
Yes, that amplified music is detected,

252
00:11:11,025 --> 00:11:14,085
but the strongest signal we
see is the crowd dancing.

253
00:11:14,705 --> 00:11:16,525
So I, I would give it to
the crowd right there.

254
00:11:16,675 --> 00:11:18,765
- Okay, brilliant. Sorry about that.

255
00:11:19,405 --> 00:11:20,605
American football fans, it's, uh,

256
00:11:21,205 --> 00:11:22,205
- <laugh>.

257
00:11:22,205 --> 00:11:23,685
Well, there is one other
thing to point out though.

258
00:11:25,555 --> 00:11:28,365
When you have a rhythm
like this, you dance

259
00:11:28,365 --> 00:11:30,365
and sync everyone dances together.

260
00:11:31,315 --> 00:11:34,845
When you have a crowd jumping
randomly stochastic motion,

261
00:11:35,425 --> 00:11:38,925
you don't have these
synchronized, um, beats

262
00:11:38,925 --> 00:11:41,085
that are pushed into the
ground at the same time, right?

263
00:11:41,385 --> 00:11:43,245
You've got really kind of chaotic motion.

264
00:11:44,145 --> 00:11:45,605
So no real surprise

265
00:11:46,235 --> 00:11:49,245
that the amplitudes are
weaker when people are

266
00:11:49,605 --> 00:11:50,965
spontaneously jumping up and down.

267
00:11:51,505 --> 00:11:53,525
And in fact, there was a study by another,

268
00:11:53,925 --> 00:11:55,085
a Seattle seismologist.

269
00:11:55,185 --> 00:11:58,245
Um, the first was by John Vidal
who found the Beast Quake,

270
00:11:58,665 --> 00:12:00,325
and then his colleague Steve Malone

271
00:12:00,915 --> 00:12:02,765
continued looking at football games

272
00:12:03,305 --> 00:12:05,405
and noticed that there is a chant,

273
00:12:05,405 --> 00:12:08,205
people will do defense, defense.

274
00:12:08,465 --> 00:12:12,005
And at that point you
actually see a very strong

275
00:12:12,125 --> 00:12:13,645
rhythmic signal from the crowd.

276
00:12:14,305 --> 00:12:16,965
So I'm quite certain if
you ask the football fans

277
00:12:17,385 --> 00:12:20,445
to jump in sync as we do
on that short one, that

278
00:12:20,445 --> 00:12:21,805
that short little chant,

279
00:12:22,465 --> 00:12:24,365
I'm quite certain they could give the

280
00:12:24,365 --> 00:12:25,805
swifties a run for their money. Okay.

281
00:12:26,155 --> 00:12:27,245
- Okay. I'm sort of picking up

282
00:12:27,245 --> 00:12:29,085
that you're a American
football fan, is that right?

283
00:12:29,985 --> 00:12:33,045
- I'm huge football fan.
Right, okay. I love the sport.

284
00:12:33,315 --> 00:12:34,525
- Okay. Um,

285
00:12:34,705 --> 00:12:37,925
but would you say that
you now know Taylor Swift

286
00:12:37,935 --> 00:12:39,125
music all too well?

287
00:12:40,265 --> 00:12:41,765
- Um, that's a fair statement.

288
00:12:41,795 --> 00:12:45,085
Yeah, there's a few songs
that I know extremely well

289
00:12:45,085 --> 00:12:46,445
because they make really the,

290
00:12:46,585 --> 00:12:48,565
the most intriguing seismic signals.

291
00:12:49,315 --> 00:12:50,805
Usually people have asked me, oh,

292
00:12:50,805 --> 00:12:51,965
were you a swifty before this?

293
00:12:52,025 --> 00:12:55,485
And the answer is no. Am I a swifty?

294
00:12:55,505 --> 00:12:57,765
Now I have an appreciation for her music,

295
00:12:57,785 --> 00:12:59,405
but it's an unusual appreciation.

296
00:12:59,605 --> 00:13:01,325
I appreciate the wiggles that it makes.

297
00:13:01,485 --> 00:13:02,765
I appreciate the seismograms.

298
00:13:02,905 --> 00:13:05,485
You know, I usually describe
myself as much more of a sort

299
00:13:05,485 --> 00:13:08,565
of punk and bluegrass type
of gal, so I'm waiting

300
00:13:08,565 --> 00:13:10,885
for other concerts to come to Lumen Field.

301
00:13:11,065 --> 00:13:13,725
- Did you get many bluegrass
acts playing in the arenas?

302
00:13:14,405 --> 00:13:15,525
- Probably not at this big arena.

303
00:13:16,085 --> 00:13:18,165
I might, you know, have to
see if I can find myself an

304
00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:20,005
instrument to stick down
to some smaller club.

305
00:13:20,625 --> 00:13:24,365
Um, but I will say that I am
really interested to see how,

306
00:13:24,745 --> 00:13:28,405
how different bands, uh, shape the ground.

307
00:13:28,865 --> 00:13:32,365
And so with that in mind, um, I requested,

308
00:13:32,445 --> 00:13:34,845
I wrote a proposal and my
university was kind enough

309
00:13:34,845 --> 00:13:36,925
to meet it, uh, to get tickets

310
00:13:37,065 --> 00:13:39,405
to the Beyonce concert
when she came to town.

311
00:13:39,465 --> 00:13:40,805
So my students and I, shortly

312
00:13:40,805 --> 00:13:43,645
after the Taylor Swift concert,
went back to the stadium

313
00:13:44,545 --> 00:13:46,005
and saw Beyonce play.

314
00:13:46,505 --> 00:13:50,925
And that is another
equally enthusiastic crowd,

315
00:13:51,235 --> 00:13:54,805
equally fond of the Queen Bee.

316
00:13:55,065 --> 00:13:57,045
So I was really intrigued to see which

317
00:13:57,045 --> 00:13:58,165
of those was gonna be stronger.

318
00:13:58,265 --> 00:14:00,845
And what we found is that the strength

319
00:14:00,945 --> 00:14:05,445
of the ground shaking, the
dancing was much greater

320
00:14:05,505 --> 00:14:06,925
during the Taylor Swift concert,

321
00:14:07,705 --> 00:14:09,805
but the strength of
those high frequencies,

322
00:14:09,865 --> 00:14:12,925
the music was much stronger
during the Beyonce concert.

323
00:14:13,865 --> 00:14:15,965
And so, you know, my hypothesis is that

324
00:14:16,865 --> 00:14:18,885
it really is a question
of how do you dance?

325
00:14:18,945 --> 00:14:20,245
You dance very differently

326
00:14:20,865 --> 00:14:23,045
to pop music than you do to r and b.

327
00:14:23,395 --> 00:14:26,125
There's a lot, you know, sort
of more swaying to r and b

328
00:14:26,125 --> 00:14:28,405
and less kind of pogo
stick jumping up and down.

329
00:14:28,505 --> 00:14:29,885
And the way it impacts the ground

330
00:14:29,885 --> 00:14:31,685
and couples in is quite different.

331
00:14:32,025 --> 00:14:35,085
So I actually had a student
who's doing her senior thesis on

332
00:14:35,285 --> 00:14:36,685
studying the differences in these two.

333
00:14:37,385 --> 00:14:40,245
Uh, and you know, in concert seismology,

334
00:14:40,245 --> 00:14:41,525
looking at the differences in

335
00:14:41,525 --> 00:14:43,485
how these acts impact the ground,

336
00:14:43,665 --> 00:14:45,485
- That's a pretty good bit
of research to be doing.

337
00:14:45,675 --> 00:14:47,325
- It's pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah.
- Oh,

338
00:14:47,325 --> 00:14:48,325
- Amazing.

339
00:14:48,325 --> 00:14:51,045
One of the really fun things
about this has been sharing

340
00:14:51,085 --> 00:14:54,485
with people that science
is not just done in a lab,

341
00:14:54,505 --> 00:14:57,445
and it's not just done at
a computer that really,

342
00:14:57,445 --> 00:15:00,325
anytime you're asking a question
about how something behaves

343
00:15:00,325 --> 00:15:02,725
and you're making observations,
you're collecting data

344
00:15:02,785 --> 00:15:05,405
and you're trying to answer
questions, you're doing science.

345
00:15:05,545 --> 00:15:10,445
And, and so I had so
much data from Swifties

346
00:15:10,465 --> 00:15:12,765
who did this at Con at the concerts,

347
00:15:13,425 --> 00:15:15,605
and in fact, my co-authors on some

348
00:15:15,605 --> 00:15:18,325
of my co-authors on my
presentation at the American

349
00:15:18,325 --> 00:15:21,645
Geophysical Union, um, were
my 13-year-old neighbors

350
00:15:21,665 --> 00:15:23,565
who gave me their data, who shared

351
00:15:23,565 --> 00:15:24,885
with me their photos and their videos.

352
00:15:25,265 --> 00:15:28,005
And I was incredibly
impressed with the detail

353
00:15:28,165 --> 00:15:29,845
that they were able to
provide about things.

354
00:15:30,665 --> 00:15:34,845
And you know, sometimes
we make science so sterile

355
00:15:34,985 --> 00:15:37,845
and we act as if it's distinct from the

356
00:15:37,845 --> 00:15:38,885
normal things that we do.

357
00:15:39,425 --> 00:15:41,005
And it isn't, it doesn't have to be,

358
00:15:41,105 --> 00:15:43,325
it can be just questions
about things that interest us.

359
00:15:43,825 --> 00:15:47,725
And I sort of like that
demystification that this has

360
00:15:48,045 --> 00:15:51,165
provided, and I hope that it
allows some people to sort

361
00:15:51,165 --> 00:15:52,965
of say, that's an interesting
thing. I can do that.

362
00:15:53,035 --> 00:15:54,605
- Yeah. I I don't suppose Taylor West

363
00:15:54,605 --> 00:15:55,725
been in touch with you at all.

364
00:15:56,665 --> 00:15:59,645
- She has not, no. She's got
much bigger fish to fry, so,

365
00:16:00,025 --> 00:16:02,325
no, I <laugh> I have not been in touch

366
00:16:02,325 --> 00:16:03,365
with her. Okay. Well,

367
00:16:03,405 --> 00:16:06,605
- I I'm actually going
to see her, uh, concert,

368
00:16:07,205 --> 00:16:08,645
I believe it's called the Era Tour.

369
00:16:08,885 --> 00:16:10,045
I say that like, I don't know,

370
00:16:10,165 --> 00:16:13,005
I have a 12-year-old daughter
I've been talked to about it

371
00:16:13,545 --> 00:16:15,165
at length for <inaudible>.

372
00:16:15,305 --> 00:16:18,685
Yes. But what I'm gonna do
is I'm gonna take your paper

373
00:16:18,875 --> 00:16:21,125
with me and I'm gonna
read it whilst I'm in

374
00:16:21,195 --> 00:16:22,365
that concert. Perfect.

375
00:16:22,555 --> 00:16:23,805
- Yeah, that's perfect.

376
00:16:24,225 --> 00:16:27,005
And you will know what
rhythm to dance at <laugh>.

377
00:16:27,465 --> 00:16:30,805
You'll know, you know, at what
points to look around and,

378
00:16:30,865 --> 00:16:34,245
and see if everybody's moving
in sync together and Yeah.

379
00:16:34,305 --> 00:16:36,485
You know, I'll tell you
one other really fun thing.

380
00:16:36,825 --> 00:16:39,765
At the Beyonce concert, she
has a song where in the middle

381
00:16:39,785 --> 00:16:43,005
of it, she does this, everybody go mute

382
00:16:43,465 --> 00:16:46,765
and the whole audience stops and is still,

383
00:16:47,665 --> 00:16:49,325
and we can see that in the data too.

384
00:16:49,345 --> 00:16:51,805
Oh, that's funny. So anytime
there's something kind of cool

385
00:16:51,805 --> 00:16:54,365
that happens, it's fun to
look for, for us to look

386
00:16:54,385 --> 00:16:56,005
and see, oh, what went on there?

387
00:16:56,485 --> 00:16:58,445
- I kind of feel like it's
a shame for you that you've,

388
00:16:58,445 --> 00:17:00,085
did you it on totally swift first

389
00:17:00,085 --> 00:17:02,085
because, you know,
you've now got an option

390
00:17:02,085 --> 00:17:03,565
to get free tickets for stuff, right.

391
00:17:03,565 --> 00:17:04,965
Or at least get tickets for stuff.

392
00:17:04,985 --> 00:17:08,005
And that would've been an
easy, a, a more difficult one

393
00:17:08,005 --> 00:17:09,085
to get tickets for than others.

394
00:17:09,635 --> 00:17:12,365
- True. I did hear that the
Rolling Stones are coming here,

395
00:17:12,505 --> 00:17:13,805
and I think that would be kind of fun.

396
00:17:13,805 --> 00:17:15,965
Yeah. You know, 'cause that's
more my era, to be honest.

397
00:17:16,585 --> 00:17:19,805
Um, I mean, I saw the
Rolling Stones in 1982,

398
00:17:20,065 --> 00:17:21,245
so it might be interesting

399
00:17:21,345 --> 00:17:23,565
to see them 40 years later. <laugh>,

400
00:17:23,565 --> 00:17:25,205
- You didn't have a, a seismometer

401
00:17:25,205 --> 00:17:26,885
with you in 1982. Presumably

402
00:17:27,225 --> 00:17:29,445
- In 1982, I was sadly unaware the

403
00:17:29,445 --> 00:17:31,485
seismometers were a thing. So yeah. Why

404
00:17:31,485 --> 00:17:33,205
- Is there one outside that arena? What

405
00:17:33,315 --> 00:17:34,565
- It's not there for the arena.

406
00:17:35,505 --> 00:17:38,165
Um, it happens that lumen
field is built on a part

407
00:17:38,165 --> 00:17:42,285
of Seattle that is, um, pretty
mushy subsurface geology.

408
00:17:42,485 --> 00:17:44,005
I mean, you wouldn't
know it walking around,

409
00:17:44,185 --> 00:17:46,525
but geologically it's built on this sort

410
00:17:46,525 --> 00:17:50,965
of alluvial deposits, these
clays, these silts, these sands.

411
00:17:51,465 --> 00:17:54,845
Um, and that's stuff that
shakes a lot during earthquakes.

412
00:17:54,845 --> 00:17:58,485
And so trying to understand
how to build safely, um,

413
00:17:58,925 --> 00:18:01,045
requires that we understand
how the ground shakes.

414
00:18:01,385 --> 00:18:04,045
So we have seismometers kind
of all over the place just

415
00:18:04,045 --> 00:18:06,805
to say, Hey, in these
circumstances, here's

416
00:18:06,805 --> 00:18:08,605
how much this area will shake.

417
00:18:09,145 --> 00:18:11,125
And then it helps, um,
inform building codes.

418
00:18:11,585 --> 00:18:14,405
So it happens that this is
a good area to understand,

419
00:18:14,585 --> 00:18:15,965
- And I don't know how
we can arrange this,

420
00:18:15,985 --> 00:18:18,845
but I'd like to know
what happens if Taylor

421
00:18:18,855 --> 00:18:20,085
Swift scores a touchdown.

422
00:18:20,325 --> 00:18:21,325
- I mean, really what we're waiting

423
00:18:21,345 --> 00:18:23,325
for is a Kansas City Chiefs to play here,

424
00:18:23,475 --> 00:18:24,565
because of course,

425
00:18:24,745 --> 00:18:27,525
her sweetheart routinely scores touchdowns

426
00:18:27,985 --> 00:18:30,805
or had we had a seismometer
for the Super Bowl

427
00:18:30,805 --> 00:18:32,765
because of course he
scored touchdowns in that.

428
00:18:33,145 --> 00:18:35,605
Um, it does seem to kind of
mesh everything together.

429
00:18:35,845 --> 00:18:38,205
I kind of felt like the,
the merging of football

430
00:18:38,205 --> 00:18:41,045
and Taylor Swift stuff, we
kind of kicked into gear way

431
00:18:41,045 --> 00:18:42,845
before Travis Kelsey reached out to her.

432
00:18:42,905 --> 00:18:45,205
So I kind of feel like
we deserve some credit

433
00:18:45,345 --> 00:18:47,725
for discussing them in the same paper.

434
00:18:48,325 --> 00:18:51,325
- I quite like the idea of
physics world fans exchanging

435
00:18:51,325 --> 00:18:53,165
science papers at the ERA'S tour,

436
00:18:53,585 --> 00:18:55,045
but whether it takes off in the way

437
00:18:55,045 --> 00:18:57,885
that Taylor Swift fans exchanging
friendship bracelets has

438
00:18:57,955 --> 00:18:59,005
remains to be seen.

439
00:18:59,375 --> 00:19:01,765
Let's turn now to our new jingle.

440
00:19:01,985 --> 00:19:04,045
And Professor Philip Moriarty,

441
00:19:04,405 --> 00:19:06,325
- A professor of physics at
the University of Nottingham,

442
00:19:06,325 --> 00:19:08,205
been at Nottingham for
a very, very long time.

443
00:19:08,345 --> 00:19:11,005
Almost 30 years, no, over 30 years now.

444
00:19:11,545 --> 00:19:15,685
And, um, massive interest in the science

445
00:19:15,685 --> 00:19:17,325
of the ultra small quantum mechanics.

446
00:19:17,325 --> 00:19:19,485
We work with scanning probe microscopes,

447
00:19:19,505 --> 00:19:21,045
we manipulate individual atoms.

448
00:19:21,505 --> 00:19:25,165
But as a, um, hobby, I like to explore

449
00:19:25,705 --> 00:19:29,165
the relationships between
maths, physics and music.

450
00:19:29,425 --> 00:19:32,805
Uh, so last year on the
lateral thoughts page

451
00:19:32,805 --> 00:19:34,885
of physics world, the back
page of physics world,

452
00:19:34,895 --> 00:19:38,765
which is always, um, uh, my
contribution's notwithstanding,

453
00:19:38,825 --> 00:19:40,085
is always very entertaining.

454
00:19:40,825 --> 00:19:44,085
And, uh, last year the

455
00:19:45,925 --> 00:19:49,725
I contributed a lateral
thoughts piece on the

456
00:19:50,835 --> 00:19:54,085
writing a song, a heavy
metal song called Shut Up

457
00:19:54,085 --> 00:19:56,765
and Calculate, which took
fundamental, constant

458
00:19:57,425 --> 00:19:59,485
and fundamental relationships in physics.

459
00:20:00,145 --> 00:20:03,245
Uh, encoded them in different
riffs and in rhythms

460
00:20:03,245 --> 00:20:07,565
and in lyrics of course,
and wrote a song about that.

461
00:20:08,385 --> 00:20:11,485
So that I guess, piqued
physics, world's interest.

462
00:20:12,235 --> 00:20:13,805
They got in touch and asked,

463
00:20:13,805 --> 00:20:16,165
what are I interested in doing something

464
00:20:16,505 --> 00:20:19,565
for a new physics world podcast jingle?

465
00:20:19,785 --> 00:20:22,965
And of course I said, yes,
<laugh> jumped at the chance.

466
00:20:23,435 --> 00:20:26,005
- Yeah. Brilliant. And
so you have done that.

467
00:20:26,005 --> 00:20:29,125
People listening to this
podcast now will have heard at

468
00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:30,725
least a part of that, the start of it.

469
00:20:30,725 --> 00:20:33,245
But can you ta just talk
me through the process

470
00:20:33,265 --> 00:20:34,845
of creating something like that?

471
00:20:35,945 --> 00:20:39,445
- So obviously it's for physics
world, obviously we want

472
00:20:39,445 --> 00:20:42,085
to have a strong
connection to the, the, to

473
00:20:42,685 --> 00:20:44,565
physical constants or physics in general

474
00:20:44,985 --> 00:20:46,245
and embedding them in the music.

475
00:20:46,785 --> 00:20:48,085
So I thought long

476
00:20:48,085 --> 00:20:49,965
and hard about having played around

477
00:20:49,995 --> 00:20:53,165
with different physical
consonants, like planks constant

478
00:20:53,345 --> 00:20:55,765
and the golden ratio in the past,

479
00:20:56,145 --> 00:21:00,125
and made quite heavy rock and
heavy metal songs outta those.

480
00:21:00,245 --> 00:21:04,725
I thought, well, maybe metal's
not gonna go down <laugh> as

481
00:21:04,985 --> 00:21:09,685
as, as universally with the
entire physics world audience

482
00:21:09,985 --> 00:21:11,365
as other forms of music.

483
00:21:11,495 --> 00:21:13,885
Let's put it that way. We
might have people running

484
00:21:13,905 --> 00:21:15,085
to the Hills <laugh>.

485
00:21:15,145 --> 00:21:20,045
So let's, let's, let's think
about, um, perhaps a more,

486
00:21:20,245 --> 00:21:21,725
a slightly gentler genre

487
00:21:22,425 --> 00:21:25,445
and looked up when physics world started

488
00:21:25,505 --> 00:21:26,765
and actually started in the eighties.

489
00:21:27,185 --> 00:21:29,405
So I thought, ah, okay, maybe we'll go

490
00:21:29,425 --> 00:21:30,965
for some eighties synth pop.

491
00:21:30,965 --> 00:21:32,645
Everybody loves eighties synth pop,

492
00:21:32,645 --> 00:21:35,365
everybody loves the Human
League and Gary Newman

493
00:21:35,865 --> 00:21:37,845
and all those wonderful
bands from the eighties

494
00:21:37,845 --> 00:21:38,885
and all those wonderful earworms.

495
00:21:39,225 --> 00:21:41,285
So that's, that was the starting position.

496
00:21:41,985 --> 00:21:44,445
And then went, uh, online

497
00:21:44,625 --> 00:21:47,645
and was absolutely delighted
to find that all the samples

498
00:21:48,665 --> 00:21:50,565
and all the type of synth sounds

499
00:21:50,705 --> 00:21:53,245
and sequences that were used
by those bands in the eighties,

500
00:21:53,395 --> 00:21:55,805
they're essentially
completely free plugins now.

501
00:21:56,225 --> 00:21:58,365
So things called Lin
drums, for example, that

502
00:21:58,435 --> 00:22:01,525
that particularly, you know,
think about the start of, um,

503
00:22:02,425 --> 00:22:04,725
uh, oh, that classic Human League song.

504
00:22:04,785 --> 00:22:07,285
Uh, don't You Want Me, you
think about the start start of

505
00:22:07,285 --> 00:22:10,565
that, that drum sound,
that sort of arpeggiated,

506
00:22:10,865 --> 00:22:11,965
um, synth sound.

507
00:22:12,465 --> 00:22:15,085
All of that is those type of
sounds are available online.

508
00:22:15,105 --> 00:22:17,645
So that, that's the type of
feel I was I was going for.

509
00:22:18,505 --> 00:22:20,965
And that's the music side.

510
00:22:21,785 --> 00:22:26,125
On the physics side, let's
choose a number that's really

511
00:22:26,675 --> 00:22:30,645
universal and let's choose a
number that is dimensionless.

512
00:22:30,645 --> 00:22:32,165
There's a dimension constant.

513
00:22:32,165 --> 00:22:37,005
So it's, it's independent
of any unit, uh, we have in

514
00:22:37,005 --> 00:22:39,965
that if an alien civilization
were to get in contact

515
00:22:40,505 --> 00:22:41,685
as alongside Pi

516
00:22:41,785 --> 00:22:45,165
and e, this might be one of the
numbers they, they'd send us

517
00:22:45,225 --> 00:22:46,325
to say, we're out here.

518
00:22:47,545 --> 00:22:50,685
So, and that number is the
fine structure constant,

519
00:22:50,715 --> 00:22:53,165
something called Alpha
or indeed one over Alpha.

520
00:22:53,945 --> 00:22:56,285
And that is a number that is roughly

521
00:22:56,805 --> 00:23:00,285
137 ply.

522
00:23:00,285 --> 00:23:04,125
For example, Wolfgang Ply
was absolutely obsessed by

523
00:23:04,125 --> 00:23:07,245
that number and spent
an awful lot of life.

524
00:23:07,345 --> 00:23:10,885
And for somebody who was
very cynical, very caustic,

525
00:23:10,885 --> 00:23:12,845
and in many ways incredibly rational,

526
00:23:13,195 --> 00:23:16,045
it's really interesting to see
how Mystic he was about this.

527
00:23:16,045 --> 00:23:18,165
Number 1, 3, 7. There's a book, um,

528
00:23:18,165 --> 00:23:21,605
by a guy called Arthur
Miller called 1 3 7,

529
00:23:21,735 --> 00:23:23,805
which I was about to
say, I recommend physics.

530
00:23:23,835 --> 00:23:26,205
Anybody listening to this
podcast gives it a read.

531
00:23:26,965 --> 00:23:29,485
I, it's a good, it's a good
read and it's an important read.

532
00:23:29,485 --> 00:23:31,765
And it talks about Powerly and
his relationship with young,

533
00:23:32,465 --> 00:23:33,965
but there's an awful lot of woo

534
00:23:34,185 --> 00:23:36,125
and there's an awful
lot of numerology in it.

535
00:23:36,405 --> 00:23:38,205
I found it quite hard going at times,

536
00:23:38,665 --> 00:23:39,725
but it's certainly in terms

537
00:23:39,725 --> 00:23:41,725
of an insight into ply, it's, it's great.

538
00:23:42,505 --> 00:23:46,765
And as a wonderful
coincidence, Parly the room

539
00:23:46,795 --> 00:23:49,845
that he died in, the hospital
room that he died in,

540
00:23:49,945 --> 00:23:52,205
the number was 1 3 7.

541
00:23:53,385 --> 00:23:56,965
Are you kidding? <laugh>
play the Twilight Zone music

542
00:23:56,985 --> 00:23:58,205
in the background, <laugh>.

543
00:23:58,265 --> 00:24:00,725
Um, so yeah, it doesn't
get better than that.

544
00:24:00,725 --> 00:24:02,965
You couldn't script that
that would be kicked out

545
00:24:02,965 --> 00:24:05,605
of a Hollywood blockbuster
for being too unrealistic.

546
00:24:05,745 --> 00:24:09,045
So, um, so he was absolutely
fascinated by this number.

547
00:24:09,155 --> 00:24:12,525
Feynman of course, said it
was one of the great mysteries

548
00:24:12,525 --> 00:24:14,085
of the universe, a magic number.

549
00:24:14,345 --> 00:24:16,925
We have no clue where it
is, where it comes from,

550
00:24:16,925 --> 00:24:18,005
and it still remains a mystery.

551
00:24:18,065 --> 00:24:19,525
Why is it 1 3 7?

552
00:24:19,545 --> 00:24:22,125
And it's not quite exactly 1, 3, 7,

553
00:24:22,235 --> 00:24:23,925
it's a little bit more than 1 3 7,

554
00:24:24,185 --> 00:24:25,925
or the inverse of this
number is a little bit,

555
00:24:26,005 --> 00:24:27,885
I should say is a little
bit more than 1 3 7.

556
00:24:28,265 --> 00:24:30,445
So, but let's take that 1, 3, 7.

557
00:24:31,825 --> 00:24:34,445
And what we'll do is we'll

558
00:24:35,345 --> 00:24:40,285
map those numbers onto a scale,
so us onto a musical scale.

559
00:24:40,305 --> 00:24:43,165
So usually my go-to scale is
something called the Harmonic

560
00:24:43,175 --> 00:24:46,245
Miner, which is quite a
spooky sounding scale,

561
00:24:46,255 --> 00:24:47,725
which is used a lot in heavy metal,

562
00:24:47,865 --> 00:24:50,285
but I thought, let's not
use the harmonic miner,

563
00:24:50,285 --> 00:24:51,645
we'll use a natural miner.

564
00:24:52,145 --> 00:24:54,045
And then it's a question of, oh,

565
00:24:54,045 --> 00:24:56,005
hopefully this will, will pick this up.

566
00:24:56,905 --> 00:25:00,005
Um, it's, it's a really simple question

567
00:25:00,005 --> 00:25:02,085
of just mapping those
numbers onto a scale.

568
00:25:02,185 --> 00:25:05,885
So I'm gonna go, um, up the
scale, we're gonna start

569
00:25:05,885 --> 00:25:09,405
with zero, which is this note,
then we're gonna go for one,

570
00:25:10,705 --> 00:25:15,205
Two, okay, I'll play the scale

571
00:25:15,425 --> 00:25:16,445
and then I'll count the numbers.

572
00:25:22,685 --> 00:25:26,305
So that's 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

573
00:25:27,445 --> 00:25:30,825
And all we're doing is gonna
take the, the, the note

574
00:25:30,825 --> 00:25:34,505
that represents one,
which is a d, the note

575
00:25:34,505 --> 00:25:36,225
that represents three, which is an F,

576
00:25:37,045 --> 00:25:39,345
and the note that represents
seven, which is a C.

577
00:25:40,165 --> 00:25:44,705
And we get this, which hopefully

578
00:25:45,125 --> 00:25:47,545
that's what started off
this week's podcast.

579
00:25:49,165 --> 00:25:52,145
And the good thing about, uh,
notes like this is that they,

580
00:25:52,175 --> 00:25:55,665
they wrap round, so it's
essentially modular seven.

581
00:25:55,805 --> 00:25:57,905
So, um, the first note of the scale,

582
00:25:57,905 --> 00:25:59,985
which were liberal at zero
was the same as the seventh.

583
00:26:00,205 --> 00:26:05,025
So 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 0, 1, 7.

584
00:26:07,185 --> 00:26:10,445
If I play them together, or
the same, the same note in the,

585
00:26:10,665 --> 00:26:15,045
in the sense that, uh, one is
an octave above the other, so

586
00:26:17,625 --> 00:26:19,725
to the same note, just
separated by an octave.

587
00:26:21,865 --> 00:26:25,485
So that means we can also play our, um,

588
00:26:26,535 --> 00:26:31,365
scale up here or we can go up an octave

589
00:26:35,145 --> 00:26:36,165
and it just wraps around.

590
00:26:36,265 --> 00:26:38,285
The numbers are circular in that sense,

591
00:26:38,295 --> 00:26:41,205
which is very helpful in
terms of composing stuff.

592
00:26:42,025 --> 00:26:45,925
Um, so yeah, so that's the core,

593
00:26:46,345 --> 00:26:48,365
that's the core of the,
of the piece of music.

594
00:26:48,505 --> 00:26:53,325
And that 1, 3 7 theme keeps
repeating over and over. Um,

595
00:26:53,755 --> 00:26:54,845
- Yeah, can I do right?

596
00:26:54,845 --> 00:26:56,605
So if it, if when you'd played that,

597
00:26:56,665 --> 00:26:58,445
or did you already know
this, but when, if you'd,

598
00:26:58,445 --> 00:27:00,445
when you played that it didn't sound good,

599
00:27:00,695 --> 00:27:03,005
would you have just gone with
it anyway or would you have

600
00:27:03,465 --> 00:27:05,125
- No, no, I'd have chosen another scale.

601
00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:06,805
Okay. <laugh>. So in that sense,

602
00:27:07,115 --> 00:27:08,965
it's a little bit arbitrary.

603
00:27:09,585 --> 00:27:12,005
Um, in terms of, of what we're doing.

604
00:27:12,095 --> 00:27:14,805
There is a, there's obviously
a link there between the maths

605
00:27:14,805 --> 00:27:16,605
and the numbers and the,
the physical concept.

606
00:27:16,825 --> 00:27:19,045
But it does depend on
which scale we choose,

607
00:27:19,425 --> 00:27:22,285
at least in this case, it
is a dimensionless constant.

608
00:27:22,305 --> 00:27:24,005
So at least there aren't
units to worry about.

609
00:27:24,245 --> 00:27:26,085
'cause you could argue you
take one of these numbers,

610
00:27:26,115 --> 00:27:28,205
just change the unit, you get
a completely different number.

611
00:27:28,945 --> 00:27:32,125
But, um, again, if it were an
alien civilization getting in

612
00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:35,365
contact, you know, that
kind of combination of notes

613
00:27:36,065 --> 00:27:39,085
or that relationship between
the notes is fixed at least.

614
00:27:39,345 --> 00:27:41,005
So you, you never know <laugh>,

615
00:27:41,005 --> 00:27:42,285
- We'll go back to the music in a minute,

616
00:27:42,285 --> 00:27:45,125
but this alien civilization
getting in touch with this.

617
00:27:45,465 --> 00:27:47,365
If we, if we just said to them 1, 3, 7

618
00:27:47,385 --> 00:27:49,965
or played them those notes,
why would they know that?

619
00:27:50,675 --> 00:27:53,525
- Well, it's a question
of the relationship

620
00:27:53,525 --> 00:27:55,085
between the frequencies of those notes.

621
00:27:55,185 --> 00:27:58,005
So if they could work back,
I guess, of course we have,

622
00:27:58,335 --> 00:28:01,045
we're very used in Western
culture to thinking

623
00:28:01,145 --> 00:28:03,445
of particular, um, scales.

624
00:28:04,185 --> 00:28:06,605
So it's a question of what the,

625
00:28:06,635 --> 00:28:08,965
that alien culture might
have developed in terms

626
00:28:08,965 --> 00:28:09,965
of musical scales.

627
00:28:09,965 --> 00:28:13,645
Would it be exactly obvious
that it was 1 3 7? Perhaps not.

628
00:28:13,895 --> 00:28:18,325
Could they just send us
those numbers 1, 3, 7, just

629
00:28:18,325 --> 00:28:22,045
as duh duh duh duh duh or whatever.

630
00:28:22,045 --> 00:28:23,165
It's just as simple tones.

631
00:28:23,465 --> 00:28:27,805
We might, um, understand that
a little bit, um, more easily.

632
00:28:28,225 --> 00:28:31,165
Having said that, uh, a jingle

633
00:28:31,165 --> 00:28:35,125
that comprised just the same
tone repeated 1, 3, 7 times

634
00:28:35,305 --> 00:28:37,645
for five minutes might not
be the most interesting thing

635
00:28:37,645 --> 00:28:38,645
to listen to <laugh>.

636
00:28:39,665 --> 00:28:41,005
- No, absolutely not.

637
00:28:41,105 --> 00:28:43,885
But, uh, what you have
done is change it up a bit

638
00:28:44,465 --> 00:28:47,605
and there's something which
at least you've described

639
00:28:47,605 --> 00:28:49,285
as a squelchy phasey effect.

640
00:28:49,545 --> 00:28:51,725
Now, last time we spoke
was a long time ago,

641
00:28:51,865 --> 00:28:55,365
and, um, this regular listeners
in the podcast will remember

642
00:28:55,365 --> 00:28:58,765
that we went off on one about rush at one,

643
00:28:58,985 --> 00:28:59,985
- We did <laugh>.

644
00:29:01,025 --> 00:29:04,045
- Um, is there any influence
of rush in this at all, you

645
00:29:04,045 --> 00:29:05,045
- Think?

646
00:29:05,045 --> 00:29:07,405
Well, Yeah,

647
00:29:07,635 --> 00:29:09,485
there's always an influence
of rush somewhere.

648
00:29:09,485 --> 00:29:11,805
So the Fay the Fay thing, so one

649
00:29:11,805 --> 00:29:13,285
of Russia's classic songs is called

650
00:29:13,285 --> 00:29:14,525
something called Spirit of Radio.

651
00:29:14,825 --> 00:29:16,045
And that starts off with a,

652
00:29:16,205 --> 00:29:20,565
a very much f flanged phased
guitar motif that that is,

653
00:29:20,625 --> 00:29:22,245
is spinning, sort of circling

654
00:29:22,505 --> 00:29:26,045
and spinning around, which
is, um, and very looped

655
00:29:26,045 --> 00:29:29,485
and very repetitive, and
it's somewhat the same idea.

656
00:29:29,485 --> 00:29:31,565
There's always a bit of a
rush influence somewhere.

657
00:29:31,785 --> 00:29:36,285
But that particular,
um, sound that phased,

658
00:29:36,565 --> 00:29:39,925
sweeping sound is, uh,

659
00:29:39,975 --> 00:29:43,405
taken directly from a simulation of

660
00:29:44,145 --> 00:29:47,605
the evolution of, uh, wave function

661
00:29:48,505 --> 00:29:50,685
in the particle in a box model.

662
00:29:50,685 --> 00:29:52,565
The infinite potential,
well that everybody does

663
00:29:52,585 --> 00:29:55,285
as a physics undergrad
at least four times over

664
00:29:55,825 --> 00:29:59,045
and, um, took the output
from that simulation

665
00:29:59,505 --> 00:30:01,325
and transpose it into the audio range.

666
00:30:01,385 --> 00:30:03,485
So what you're hearing
is a real simulation

667
00:30:04,025 --> 00:30:05,445
and the dynamics of

668
00:30:05,445 --> 00:30:08,805
that evolving quantum state
translated into sound.

669
00:30:20,625 --> 00:30:21,645
- That's a lovely thing.

670
00:30:21,785 --> 00:30:25,125
Um, you've, there's also a link to 1984.

671
00:30:25,385 --> 00:30:27,605
- The choice of the musical genre was

672
00:30:27,605 --> 00:30:28,805
definitely informed by the eighties.

673
00:30:29,225 --> 00:30:30,565
And, um, you know,

674
00:30:30,565 --> 00:30:34,725
it's 20, 24, 40 years ago
the Nobel Prize was awarded.

675
00:30:35,025 --> 00:30:39,285
Um, in terms of, um, fundamental, um,

676
00:30:39,525 --> 00:30:42,685
coupling constants, let's,
let's put it that way in terms

677
00:30:42,685 --> 00:30:45,845
of the weak force, but
actually 1 3 7, the,

678
00:30:45,945 --> 00:30:48,925
the fine structure constant,
I keep saying 1 3 7,

679
00:30:49,035 --> 00:30:50,925
it's actually one over 1 3 7

680
00:30:51,025 --> 00:30:53,445
or approximately one
over 1 3 7 is the actual

681
00:30:53,445 --> 00:30:54,485
fine structure constant.

682
00:30:54,755 --> 00:30:57,045
What that is, is a measure of the coupling

683
00:30:57,145 --> 00:30:59,685
of charged particles with
the electromagnetic field.

684
00:31:00,465 --> 00:31:03,645
And um, the other thing
that's buried in there

685
00:31:04,425 --> 00:31:05,765
is some bongos.

686
00:31:06,625 --> 00:31:09,365
And you, if you listen carefully,
you can hear the bongos.

687
00:31:09,645 --> 00:31:12,165
I hope for a physics
audience that I don't have

688
00:31:12,165 --> 00:31:16,045
to explain a camera cameo
periods of, of bongos <laugh>.

689
00:31:16,045 --> 00:31:18,525
But if you do, if you need,
if you need some more hints,

690
00:31:18,525 --> 00:31:20,765
then perhaps go go along to Oppenheim

691
00:31:20,765 --> 00:31:23,605
or find where Oppenheimer is
playing or somehow download it

692
00:31:23,605 --> 00:31:25,685
or stream it and um, watch it again and,

693
00:31:25,685 --> 00:31:26,925
and look out for the bongos.

694
00:31:27,345 --> 00:31:32,125
Um, and of course there is
another meta link there in

695
00:31:32,285 --> 00:31:35,285
that, that particular physicist
who was particularly famous

696
00:31:35,385 --> 00:31:37,645
for playing the bongos won the Nobel Prize

697
00:31:37,645 --> 00:31:39,965
for Electrodynamics
quantum electrodynamics.

698
00:31:40,265 --> 00:31:43,805
And this 1 3 7 alpha,

699
00:31:43,825 --> 00:31:45,965
the fine structure constant
is absolutely at the core

700
00:31:45,965 --> 00:31:49,125
of quantum electrodynamics and
fineman diagrams, oh, sorry,

701
00:31:49,885 --> 00:31:52,525
- <laugh>, give ruined it now everyone.

702
00:31:52,715 --> 00:31:53,725
- I've ruined it.
- <laugh>.

703
00:31:54,465 --> 00:31:57,525
So, okay, that's, that's
everything I think up

704
00:31:57,525 --> 00:31:59,485
to a certain point in the jingle.

705
00:31:59,755 --> 00:32:02,885
Then we're starting to
get some drums. Hi hats.

706
00:32:03,425 --> 00:32:06,605
- Oh yeah, we are, um,
the open hi hats are sort

707
00:32:06,605 --> 00:32:08,205
of syncopated at one point.

708
00:32:08,505 --> 00:32:10,285
And again, that's happening on the first

709
00:32:10,335 --> 00:32:11,485
third, seventh beat.

710
00:32:11,755 --> 00:32:14,365
There's actually, there's 16th
for the drummers out there,

711
00:32:14,365 --> 00:32:15,365
there's 16th node.

712
00:32:15,365 --> 00:32:18,645
So it's first, so imagine it
does two sets of eight notes,

713
00:32:19,025 --> 00:32:21,845
and on each set of eight
notes, you get a one, three

714
00:32:21,845 --> 00:32:23,885
and a seven that you accent.

715
00:32:24,265 --> 00:32:27,285
Um, so 1, 3, 7, 1 3, 7, 1 3 7, et cetera.

716
00:32:27,305 --> 00:32:29,045
So yeah, that was an easy one to do.

717
00:32:29,265 --> 00:32:30,485
And being a big rush

718
00:32:30,545 --> 00:32:32,765
and Neil Pert fan,
that's the type of thing

719
00:32:32,765 --> 00:32:34,205
that Neil Pert used to do a lot,

720
00:32:34,205 --> 00:32:37,245
including a song called
YYZ, which is most cool

721
00:32:37,245 --> 00:32:39,765
for YYZ translated to drums. Oh,

722
00:32:39,905 --> 00:32:40,905
- Lovely.

723
00:32:40,945 --> 00:32:44,805
Um, then we have, well from about one 13.

724
00:32:47,155 --> 00:32:49,725
- Okay, so this is one over 1 37

725
00:32:50,065 --> 00:32:52,325
and that's a different wave,
but it's exactly the same idea,

726
00:32:52,435 --> 00:32:54,805
same scale, just matching the, the notes.

727
00:32:54,805 --> 00:32:58,485
So it's like 0.00729.

728
00:32:58,585 --> 00:33:00,805
I'm trying to remember this
off the top of my head again.

729
00:33:00,805 --> 00:33:02,685
So matching those, and
that's a bit funkier

730
00:33:02,685 --> 00:33:05,525
and that's driven by the bass dominated

731
00:33:05,585 --> 00:33:09,725
by the music rather than
the physics, I would say.

732
00:33:09,965 --> 00:33:13,045
Although those notes are
matched to the inverse of the of

733
00:33:13,345 --> 00:33:18,085
of 1 3 7, the, the rhythm
has nothing to do with that.

734
00:33:18,085 --> 00:33:20,365
The rhythm, that sort of
driving rhythm at that point is

735
00:33:20,365 --> 00:33:22,125
because I wanted to lift
the song a little bit.

736
00:33:22,515 --> 00:33:25,085
There's something that
kicks in, I can't remember,

737
00:33:25,085 --> 00:33:27,805
it's about midway through,
I dunno, two, two minute,

738
00:33:27,905 --> 00:33:29,805
two minute 30 mark, something like that,

739
00:33:30,175 --> 00:33:31,805
which is called a shepherd scale.

740
00:33:31,865 --> 00:33:33,085
And this is, this is amazing.

741
00:33:33,115 --> 00:33:36,525
It's, um, an audio equivalent essentially

742
00:33:36,525 --> 00:33:38,805
of those Escher paintings,
you know, the Escher paintings

743
00:33:38,805 --> 00:33:41,525
with the, the monks walking
up the, the staircase

744
00:33:42,025 --> 00:33:43,525
and the, the walking up.

745
00:33:43,545 --> 00:33:45,205
But then they're also walking down

746
00:33:45,225 --> 00:33:46,605
and it's like this infinite loop

747
00:33:46,825 --> 00:33:49,885
or indeed penals Roger
Penals on his father, um,

748
00:33:50,305 --> 00:33:53,325
had these infinite
staircases which inspired

749
00:33:53,475 --> 00:33:55,005
that Escher painting apparently.

750
00:33:55,505 --> 00:33:59,485
Um, so I, there's an audio equivalent of

751
00:33:59,485 --> 00:34:02,125
that called the Shepherd
Scale, whereby you,

752
00:34:02,505 --> 00:34:03,925
you have an octave rising

753
00:34:05,465 --> 00:34:07,885
and as it's rising its
volume is also increasing,

754
00:34:07,945 --> 00:34:09,845
but then you also have another octave,

755
00:34:09,845 --> 00:34:12,005
or more than one octave, um,

756
00:34:13,115 --> 00:34:17,085
whereby the notes are,
um, falling in volume

757
00:34:17,785 --> 00:34:19,485
as the pitch goes up

758
00:34:19,585 --> 00:34:23,485
and you get this interplay
of rising notes, um,

759
00:34:23,915 --> 00:34:25,365
with the volume increasing

760
00:34:25,945 --> 00:34:27,925
and also another set of notes

761
00:34:27,955 --> 00:34:29,805
with which are rising in pitch,

762
00:34:30,065 --> 00:34:31,445
but their volume is decreasing.

763
00:34:31,785 --> 00:34:36,085
And the combined experience
is that you hear this note

764
00:34:36,115 --> 00:34:38,965
that seems to be rising
and rising and rising

765
00:34:39,105 --> 00:34:40,125
and never stops.

766
00:34:40,125 --> 00:34:41,485
So rising to infinity

767
00:34:41,945 --> 00:34:44,285
and physicists love
dealing with infinities.

768
00:34:44,495 --> 00:34:46,805
Every furry interval
is full of infinities.

769
00:34:46,905 --> 00:34:50,205
So, um, I thought again,
that was a, a nice, um,

770
00:34:50,805 --> 00:34:52,165
parallel with, uh, physics.

771
00:34:53,075 --> 00:34:55,725
- Yeah, I mean it's a funny
old thing, the brain, isn't it

772
00:34:55,755 --> 00:34:57,525
that something that isn't happening.

773
00:34:58,225 --> 00:34:59,365
We hear it as if it is,

774
00:34:59,785 --> 00:35:03,085
- It is, there are some
fantastic examples of how

775
00:35:03,155 --> 00:35:06,685
what we perceive is much
more than just the physics

776
00:35:06,745 --> 00:35:08,765
of the notes and the furrier coefficients

777
00:35:08,765 --> 00:35:11,805
and the, the, the, the furrier
components of the sound.

778
00:35:12,345 --> 00:35:16,365
The IE the way that a physicist
would treated a great deal

779
00:35:16,365 --> 00:35:19,565
of it is, is due to our
psychology and her perception.

780
00:35:19,825 --> 00:35:22,565
And there are some really
wonderful examples at, um,

781
00:35:22,585 --> 00:35:26,965
the Franklin Institute,
uh, website in, uh,

782
00:35:27,245 --> 00:35:29,125
Franklin Institute is in Philadelphia.

783
00:35:29,395 --> 00:35:30,445
It's a science museum.

784
00:35:30,865 --> 00:35:32,405
And let's see if these are gonna work.

785
00:35:32,645 --> 00:35:35,085
'cause I think these
are amazing in terms of,

786
00:35:35,385 --> 00:35:38,445
I'm gonna play you
something now, Andrew, um,

787
00:35:38,705 --> 00:35:40,285
and tell me what you think it is,

788
00:35:42,355 --> 00:35:43,355
- Lady.

789
00:35:43,355 --> 00:35:45,445
- Any idea what that was?
- No, not a clue.

790
00:35:45,795 --> 00:35:47,965
- Okay, let's try it again.
I'll play it one more time,

791
00:35:50,185 --> 00:35:51,185
- Lady.

792
00:35:51,955 --> 00:35:55,495
- Now you're gonna hear what
the actual message was followed

793
00:35:55,595 --> 00:35:58,655
by exactly the same piece of garbled audio

794
00:35:59,075 --> 00:36:00,855
and suddenly all will become clear.

795
00:36:01,605 --> 00:36:04,895
- There's coffee on that seat.
- Whoa.

796
00:36:05,595 --> 00:36:07,255
- And what this goes to show is just

797
00:36:07,395 --> 00:36:10,175
how important prior
information is in terms of

798
00:36:10,175 --> 00:36:12,095
how we perceive and how we interpret

799
00:36:12,605 --> 00:36:14,655
information for our senses.

800
00:36:15,405 --> 00:36:17,535
There's another interesting analog here.

801
00:36:18,395 --> 00:36:21,935
We talked before Andrew, about
machine learning and training

802
00:36:22,075 --> 00:36:25,575
and just the incredible advances
in artificial intelligence

803
00:36:25,875 --> 00:36:26,975
and of course chat.

804
00:36:27,215 --> 00:36:30,175
GPT-4 O was released just
a couple of days ago.

805
00:36:30,795 --> 00:36:33,295
And again, that's about training

806
00:36:33,435 --> 00:36:35,775
and network, a neural
network in that case,

807
00:36:35,775 --> 00:36:38,655
an artificial neural network
rather than the organic neural

808
00:36:38,655 --> 00:36:39,775
network between our ears.

809
00:36:40,155 --> 00:36:43,215
But it is about prior
information, how it learns.

810
00:36:43,355 --> 00:36:46,215
And here we see exactly
that in terms of our brains

811
00:36:46,845 --> 00:36:51,415
working out interpreting data
in terms of prior information,

812
00:36:51,915 --> 00:36:54,535
the training set essentially
that we've been given.

813
00:36:54,875 --> 00:36:56,775
Mm. One more example.

814
00:36:57,005 --> 00:37:01,215
- Okay, brilliant. No,

815
00:37:02,375 --> 00:37:03,375
absolutely no idea.

816
00:37:03,385 --> 00:37:05,295
Again, go on enlighten me. The

817
00:37:05,535 --> 00:37:07,095
- Constitution center is at the next stop.

818
00:37:09,965 --> 00:37:11,975
- Whoa. It's just brilliant, isn't it?

819
00:37:11,975 --> 00:37:14,935
But let's just go back
to the music a second

820
00:37:14,965 --> 00:37:19,935
because at the end we get the violins.

821
00:37:33,405 --> 00:37:36,215
- Yeah. So the violins,
again are just repeating

822
00:37:36,215 --> 00:37:38,015
that 1, 3, 7 idea.

823
00:37:38,675 --> 00:37:42,255
Um, and then they fade out

824
00:37:42,915 --> 00:37:46,015
and are replaced by, again, coming back

825
00:37:46,015 --> 00:37:48,575
to the science first looping
round to where we almost,

826
00:37:48,575 --> 00:37:50,135
where we started coming back to the sort

827
00:37:50,135 --> 00:37:51,215
of science fiction scenario

828
00:37:51,215 --> 00:37:53,015
where there's an alien civilization trying

829
00:37:53,015 --> 00:37:54,775
to get in contact with us <laugh>.

830
00:37:54,995 --> 00:37:59,495
And again, it's a very heavily
affected bass guitar playing

831
00:37:59,765 --> 00:38:03,495
harmonics based on those 1 3 7 pitches.

832
00:38:03,755 --> 00:38:07,775
And that fades out to,
uh, infinity as it were.

833
00:38:09,245 --> 00:38:10,415
- What a lovely thing it is.

834
00:38:10,955 --> 00:38:12,375
Um, thank you so much for doing it.

835
00:38:12,415 --> 00:38:14,135
I, I have to ask this question, right,

836
00:38:14,135 --> 00:38:16,655
because you, you have the violins there.

837
00:38:17,795 --> 00:38:20,655
Um, would you all be
interested in those violins

838
00:38:20,655 --> 00:38:21,815
being actual violins?

839
00:38:22,035 --> 00:38:24,415
- Oh, I would love that. Oh,
that'd be amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

840
00:38:24,485 --> 00:38:26,095
Okay. Because they're obviously sampled

841
00:38:26,515 --> 00:38:29,095
and, um, there's a lot I'll,

842
00:38:29,165 --> 00:38:31,335
I'll be writing a blog post about this

843
00:38:31,475 --> 00:38:33,535
and there are a number of free plugins

844
00:38:33,535 --> 00:38:36,885
and there are a number of,
um, effects that I use a lot,

845
00:38:36,885 --> 00:38:38,485
including those by somebody called,

846
00:38:38,925 --> 00:38:40,125
I hope I get the pronunciation.

847
00:38:40,245 --> 00:38:44,445
I garant Luff who, uh, it's
amazing, these incredible

848
00:38:45,195 --> 00:38:47,965
effects that have been
developed as plugins for the,

849
00:38:47,965 --> 00:38:49,245
the digital audio workspaces.

850
00:38:49,245 --> 00:38:50,245
And I use something called Reaper

851
00:38:50,425 --> 00:38:51,685
and for completely for free.

852
00:38:52,155 --> 00:38:54,765
It's amazing. Other places
would charge hundreds

853
00:38:54,765 --> 00:38:55,845
if not thousands for this.

854
00:38:55,945 --> 00:38:58,245
And this guy's just
decided to put them online.

855
00:38:58,425 --> 00:39:01,885
Uh, it's, it's, it's really nice in terms

856
00:39:01,885 --> 00:39:04,565
of the music community,
just what, what level

857
00:39:04,585 --> 00:39:05,645
of community there is

858
00:39:05,665 --> 00:39:08,445
and how, you know, the, the
level of interaction there is.

859
00:39:08,825 --> 00:39:09,925
- It is a very lovely thing.

860
00:39:09,925 --> 00:39:12,965
And what I, i dunno whether
it's gonna be possible or not,

861
00:39:13,065 --> 00:39:16,805
but I am happily married to
a rather wonderful violinist.

862
00:39:17,265 --> 00:39:20,325
- Oh my. Oh, that would be amazing. So,

863
00:39:20,325 --> 00:39:23,205
- Yeah, I wonder what would you want from

864
00:39:23,205 --> 00:39:25,045
that violinist if we were going to

865
00:39:25,145 --> 00:39:26,805
- Oh, I can, so what I can
do is just send a track

866
00:39:26,805 --> 00:39:28,925
with just exactly the
notes that are required

867
00:39:28,985 --> 00:39:30,245
and stripped of everything else.

868
00:39:30,835 --> 00:39:33,085
Okay. That would be great. And
then I could mix it back in.

869
00:39:33,085 --> 00:39:35,005
That would be great. Yeah.
Oh wow. Let's try that.

870
00:39:35,055 --> 00:39:36,085
- Thank you. Let's try that.

871
00:39:51,895 --> 00:39:53,195
- In terms of stringed instruments,

872
00:39:53,335 --> 00:39:55,515
that's quantum mechanics 1 0 1, that's

873
00:39:55,515 --> 00:39:56,835
where we start particle in a box.

874
00:39:56,835 --> 00:39:58,075
It's resonances on a string.

875
00:39:58,575 --> 00:40:00,955
You've got something that's
clamped at both ends. Freedom.

876
00:40:00,975 --> 00:40:02,395
You've got nodes at both ends.

877
00:40:02,585 --> 00:40:05,395
What standing waves
conform. It's all physics

878
00:40:06,155 --> 00:40:07,155
- <laugh>.

879
00:40:07,155 --> 00:40:08,475
It's, it's, it's a lovely thing, isn't it?

880
00:40:08,475 --> 00:40:10,675
Well, I, I am wondering whether,

881
00:40:10,785 --> 00:40:14,155
because, you know, we've got
this lovely piece of music now,

882
00:40:14,855 --> 00:40:16,395
um, it,

883
00:40:16,465 --> 00:40:19,555
it's gonna be used in the podcast
in various different ways.

884
00:40:19,695 --> 00:40:21,555
It is the jingle at the start.

885
00:40:21,845 --> 00:40:24,395
We're gonna bring it
in occasionally within

886
00:40:24,535 --> 00:40:25,595
the podcast as well.

887
00:40:25,695 --> 00:40:30,315
But I wonder whether we
might give listeners a treat

888
00:40:30,315 --> 00:40:33,075
and play one of your other
pieces of music that has to do

889
00:40:33,075 --> 00:40:34,395
with physics on this particular

890
00:40:34,395 --> 00:40:35,395
- Episode.

891
00:40:35,395 --> 00:40:36,995
Oh, that, that would be great. Thank you.

892
00:40:37,295 --> 00:40:39,755
Yes, I can certainly, yeah.
That, that would be wonderful.

893
00:40:39,755 --> 00:40:40,755
Thank you, <laugh>.

894
00:40:41,665 --> 00:40:43,155
- Well hopefully that'll be thanking

895
00:40:43,275 --> 00:40:45,035
'cause And, uh, which one should we play

896
00:40:45,035 --> 00:40:46,035
- Then?

897
00:40:46,035 --> 00:40:47,715
Oh, we, we play something
very metal called Shut Up

898
00:40:47,715 --> 00:40:50,635
and Calculate if <laugh>, let's see

899
00:40:50,635 --> 00:40:51,675
how that goes down <laugh>.

900
00:40:51,675 --> 00:40:55,395
It's slightly different
genre rise to the jingle.

901
00:40:55,825 --> 00:40:58,275
- Amazing. Well, hopefully
they won't run for their lives.

902
00:40:58,575 --> 00:40:59,755
And here we go.

903
00:42:34,425 --> 00:42:34,645
- The

904
00:43:28,905 --> 00:43:29,125
the,

905
00:44:35,185 --> 00:44:36,725
- In this way we see

906
00:44:36,725 --> 00:44:39,805
that such a drastic
departure from ordinary ideas

907
00:44:40,265 --> 00:44:42,845
as the assumption of
superposition relationships

908
00:44:42,845 --> 00:44:46,245
between the states is
possible only on account

909
00:44:46,265 --> 00:44:48,045
of the recognition of the importance

910
00:44:48,045 --> 00:44:50,325
of the disturbance upon observation

911
00:44:50,785 --> 00:44:53,005
and of the con indeterminacy

912
00:44:53,005 --> 00:44:54,485
and the result of the observation.

913
00:44:55,075 --> 00:44:58,405
When an observation is
made on atomic systems

914
00:44:58,675 --> 00:45:00,845
that is in given state in general,

915
00:45:01,225 --> 00:45:03,765
the result will not be determinate.

916
00:45:20,455 --> 00:45:20,805
- We'll,

917
00:46:09,185 --> 00:46:11,845
- That's shut up and
calculate by Philip Moriarty.

918
00:46:11,945 --> 00:46:14,165
And you're listening to the
Physics World Stories podcast.

919
00:46:14,895 --> 00:46:17,605
Thank you so much to Jackie
and Philip for talking to me.

920
00:46:17,625 --> 00:46:20,165
And thank you very much
indeed to Jenny g Lester

921
00:46:20,305 --> 00:46:23,725
for providing the violin
for our new jingle,

922
00:46:23,725 --> 00:46:26,085
which I hope you as
listeners are enjoying.

923
00:46:29,775 --> 00:46:30,845
We'll be back next month

924
00:46:30,955 --> 00:46:33,125
with something else from this
wonderful world of physics

925
00:46:33,585 --> 00:46:35,605
and thank you very much for listening.