Figuring Out Fitness with Entrepreneur and Certified Personal Trainer Jennifer Nagel

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Speaker 1: Hi, this is Sarah. Just a brief message before we start this episode. This episode was recorded prior to current national coverage of events which brought to the forefront the racial disparities present in this country. We support efforts against racism. We are thrilled that this week's guest happens to be a black woman succeeding and making work in life fit together. This was entirely coincidental, but we hope to continue to feature more black women and non black women of color and are invested in increasing the diversity of our future guests. If you have guest recommendations for us, please send them our way. Thank you, and we hope you enjoy the episode. Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Unger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of Life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and forty nine, which is airing in early June of twenty twenty, and we're going to be discussing fitness with Jennifer Nagle, who is the owner of Figured Out Fitness in East Lansing, Michigan. She is big into strength training and she's going to tell us why that's where we should be focusing most of our efforts. If people will visit her website, the real Jennifernagel dot com, I would double check that, but you will see that she is a good advertisement for doing strength training, so please go check that out. So, Sarah, what are you doing for fitness these days? The same? I mean, you know, I used to mostly I used to be mostly running, but I've been in this like beach buddy face. I feel bad because it's like a competitor of the type of stuff that Jennifer does. Although I feel like I kind of feel like she what she offers is in a way some and then it's like very convenient, like you could do it whenever you want and wherever you want. But if you're used to doing streaming workouts, it will want something more customized to you, because obviously, you know, when I'm watching beach Body like it's for them, it's for whoever. And in fact, in my age, my delicate age state, I'm like concerned because I did get a little bit injured, although I've since recovered, so that's all good, and I just you know, I wonder sometimes like would a more individualized approach be helpful, And I would say that if I get injured again, I would consider that. But I am. I am still doing the beach body thing. I'm half well, I rode halfway through eighty day obsession, but that's like a full online I'm on day eleven. Well, I think it's like when this is going to air, right, this is going to air if I don't get injured, because I already so I did. I should be at like day twenty something. But the first week was sort of unsuccessful because I had a really bad shoulder stream by the end of it, I had to take a full week off, and then I decided that my shoulder was completely better right at the end of that week, so I was very happy. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to just repea the whole first week to see, you know what happens, because obviously, if I get the injury again and maybe this just isn't the workout for me. And so my repetition of week one was fine. And now I'm on week two. So I just completed workout number eleven today of the eighty day Obsession. Well that's getting in there, sort of. No, it's not half, but it's in there. It's somewhere in there. That's that's good. Yeah. I Sarah had asked if I wanted to do the eighty day Obsession at one point, and I decided I just I couldn't commit yet to that. Although you know, yeah, Jennifer has a great argument for more strength for our coach. You're going to hear in a few minutes. I have not been doing much of that. Interestingly, I have not been running all that regularly this week. I do in general, and I trust that I will be fully back in the flow with that by the time the stairs. But it's just been I don't know, did you maybe just needed a little Maybe I needed a little break. We've I love breaks. We've been you know, and I didn't take a break for three years, So maybe then I did okay so when the baby was born, but I don't know. It's been between not sleeping very well. He's been problematic with that of late, being very busy with work, which is the same excuse everyone uses, and I know that it's not that I don't have time. It's just not been a big priority right now. Between also dealing with the kids stuff. We've been using some extra time to do the pool, you know, take them on walks. I try to get out. I do something every day, so either I go for a walk. What I've been doing lately is a walk from seven to seven thirty at night, and that's great. Yeah. I actually feel like walking is almost the new running for me right now, because doing running and this eighty day would be like no punishing or I just can't imagine. I know there are probably some crazy people that combine those things, but I'm not going to do it. And there are workouts in the thing that are like sweaty enough cardio that I don't feel like I need to run. But I really do enjoy the walk. These days, I have a lot of four pm Zoom calls and it's a perfect time if it's not thunderstorming. Which is a big if lately to just be like, well, I'm going to walk in, listen to this talk and contribute when needed and get my outdoor time and it's good. Yeah, that's a great way for people to fit some fitness into their lives. Like if you're just absolutely stacked up with calls all day, if there's any of them that you don't have to talk a lot, those might be really good ones to take outside. But you have running goals still, I still do. Yeah, No, it's just this week has been particularly bad. I do think it will get better. Also, as it gets hotter, it gets harder to run during the day, which means that I need to run early or run late running I probably can switch that walk to a run. I probably should just do that, or I can do. Mornings are just difficult with the new baby, and that's waking up and at varying times feeding him, the schedule being off that. So yeah, no, I just need to figure it out again, and I'm sure I will because I do love to run, as I mentioned in the body of this episode, and it's good for me to do so. But yeah, probably should be working on the strength training too, so we'll hear Jennifer's tips on that. This is a great interview, so please stay tuned. Well. Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Jennifer Nagel to the podcast. She is the owner of Figured Out Fitness in East Lansing, Michigan. So Jennifer, welcome. Hey, thanks Ed really happy to talk to you guys. Yeah, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners, tell them a little bit about you, your career, your family. Yeah. Well, I'm Jennifer Nagel, as you mentioned, and I own Figured Out Fitness, which is an online personal training company, and I work primarily with women, especially us busy high performing women, moms, those of us who have a really hard time figuring out how to fit like nutrition, exercise, and just healthy behaviors into our day. I really love helping people incorporate real and practical options on how to get that into their day, and we work with people one on one. We have some other programs, but basically my whole mission is to help people who used to be exhausted, tired, not taking care of themselves just like I was, and just helping them really be at their best. And I think being at your best means having a strong foundation of health and fitness. Yeah, you've got quite a story with that. I mean, you haven't been in fitness your whole career. You started out in higher education, right, Yes, yes, absolutely, so. I've always loved exercise and fitness. So I was like one of those crazy kids who my grandmother used to call me wiggleworm because I could never sit still, and my mom still teases me about that to this day. But that's another story. But I actually worked in higher education for fifteen years. I had a couple of other jobs before that, but most of my career was in higher ed and an administrative roles in things where you know, I worked a lot of hours, and for part of that time, I was a single parent. So I went through a divorce and had a young child at home, and I was just really struggling how to make that work. So I became one of those people who was just addicted to caffeine, and you know, every day I hoped and prayed that I would make it through the next hour. And it started to really show. I gained a lot of weight. I was tired all the time, but then I had insomnia. I mean I just was not taking care of myself, and for me, the big wake up call was, you know, I attempted to do some exercise and started getting really light headed and dizzy, and going to the doctor, I was diagnosed with high blood pressure. And I was only thirty one years old, So that was a huge, huge wake up call for me, and I just knew I needed to start taking care of myself to make a change and to show up better for my daughter, because you know, when you're young, you don't really think about the end of your life. But then I realized it's like I was a young parent, and I wanted to be a good mom for her. I wanted to be around, I wanted to be healthy and active and also teach her how she should be taking care of herself too. So I made started really making some big changes at that time, and part of that was taking my interest in exercise and fitness from hobby to career. So that's when I started getting a lot of certifications and teaching courses and then eventually training people and then opening my own fitness studio and then eventually rolling And I just condensed the last like ten years into my life rolling into starting my own business. But that's where it comes from. It really, fitness is something that truly saved my life but also helped me succeed. Like, I felt so much better, I started doing much better at work, I was sleeping, I was taking care of myself, and then it really allowed me to be in that great energetic space to pursue some big things that I wanted in life, one of which was helping other people through this business. Yeah. I mean, as you describe, it's such a vicious cycle though, because you are so tired and being more physically fit would obviously be incredibly beneficial, but you have to get to that with the limited energy that you have, you know, career, your case, a single parent dealing with health issues. So for our listeners who are maybe in that place and are looking for how practically they can start taking a few small steps on their own fitness journey, what would you recommend? Yes? Absolutely, I think the critical word that you use with small steps. I think the big mistake that we all try to do is like I'm gonna get I'm gonna do this thing, and then you're like buy seventeen protein shakes and you know, get in the gym, and then the next day you're sore and you're like, this is horrible. I hate it. So my advice is always start slow. Maybe one you know you've never exerc size before, just do it once, you know, see do something small. Your exercise routines do not need to be long. In fact, most of the people that I train, their exercise routines are twenty to thirty minutes to start, and you focus on some very basic movements that mimic your everyday life. So squats, like when you go down to get something a deadlift overhead press and just try maybe two sets of that eight to twelve repetitions, no weight to light weight. So the key is start really small and try to see if you can carve out twenty minutes twice a week to begin with, and then you can always add on from there. So that's the first thing on the exercise realm. On the nutrition realm, same type of thing. Start small. You're not going to go from zero to like health nut in five minutes. You're going to start with something like I'm going to drink water today. That was one thing that I completely neglected. I would be going throughout my day running, running, run, and then realize that I haven't had water or I hadn't, you know, you know, So start with one or two very very simple things that create a great baseline, and then you can always layer habits on top of it. So I think a lot of the fitness magazines and television shows like Biggest Lizard. It's great that they're highlighting health and fitness, but I think it also creates an unrealistic expectation for those of us who have kids and jobs and so many other things, Like we're not going to spend two hours at a ranch with a you know, a million dollar trainer and food prepared for it. This just doesn't happen. So if it's then I like, I eat out five times a week. Now I eat out two times a week. Like that's a big, big step in the right direction. So start small, small habits, small exercise, and build from there. And that's so true. I feel like, you know, like I don't know if you read the book Atomic Habits, but like you can start really small. But that doesn't like I think some people get caught in the idea that well, then that will never work. But you have to remember that once you build a habit, you can then incrementally increase that habit. So you're two times a week, no no weight workouts. Might not seem like a big deal, but you're building this huge foundation of something that's becoming part of your day. And as you're gradually increasing the length and maybe increasing the weight, before you know it, time accumulates and you've really built something very meaningful. So I love that, Jennifer. I thought it was interesting. We talked about, you know, if you haven't exercised, what you're going to do to start exercising. You mentioned some strength work that was what you started with, So you know, you didn't say like, go go run, You didn't say go jump rope or anything like that. What is the upside of strength work? Because I know this is something you really emphasize with your clients. Absolutely, if you are busy, if you have a lot going on, strength training, resistance training definitely gives you the most bang for your book. Plus strength training, not forget about aesthetics. Helps you with sleep, It helps you with posture, with bone density, with even lowering inflammation, boosting your metabolism. So if you're going to spend twenty minutes doing something, let's spend it doing the thing that's going to give you the best benefit. And I also think that women traditionally were marketed to with just cardiovascular exercise. And cardiovascular exercise is great, we definitely want great heart help. I'm not knocking cardiovascular exercise, but I think that a lot of times we ignore strength training, which can give us so many great benefits. So I like to always I think about making a cake. Right, Okay, maybe cake is not the best anality here when we're talking about fitness, but a healthy cake there we go, Sarah. So if you have a healthy cake, you have a base of like the cake itself, and then the next layer you might have a little filling or frosting, and then on the top you might have sprinkles. So if you think about strength training, i'm putting together or workout. I think strength training is the cake. That's what you want to spend the most of your time doing, because that's really going to create such a fantastic foundation for some of the other things that you can then layer on top of it. So, yeah, strength training is where it's at, and I think a lot of people can be intimidated. That's a lot of things what I hear from some of my clients. But again, you don't have to start off at a big gym, or if you start off at a big gym, you can start with simple movements. You can start off at home, and again, a lot of really solid strength training you don't have to do. I mean, I always love seeing the gym fail videos where they have somebody like balancing on a bosu ball with rings and like, because I'm like, who is doing that? Really good strength training is simple, Keep it simple. Squat, bend over, pick stuff up, push stuff up in the air, pull stuff towards you, push it away. I mean that's basically the movements that we're trying to do. And especially if you're a parent or you know you're busy or have a job or something like that, those are the emotions that you doing most of the time anyway. So let's just optimize our bodies for what we normally like to do. Keep it simple, but also focus on resistance training first before you start adding cardiovascular exercise. So what sort of equipment should you have? I mean, a lot of this you can do with body weight to a degree, But if we're going to get something to help with this, will do you recommend? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, it doesn't have to be complex, but I usually like to recommend at minimum some resistance bands with handles, which you can usually get on Amazon for under thirty dollars, and maybe a pair of light weights and moderately heavy weights to heavy weights. And that is really heavy and light is going to be very dependent on where you are. So if you are just beginning, here's a quick trick that I used to use when we were kids. My sister and I used to work out in front of our television in the living room to like the oldies and goodies like Denise Austen and stuff. We had no weights, of course, my parents would not buy that for us. Soup cans so which is basically a one pound weight, or if you have bigger hands. We were kids, so we had small hands. If you have bigger hands, you can use some of the larger soup cans, but yeah, lightweights, a pair of heavy weights, and a set of resistance spans, and then you know, honestly, a set of resistance spans. If you can't get the dumbbells, which I know is nearly impossible during this quarantine, but resistance bands are still readily available. That's what I tell people to start off with. And then you can always build on your you know, your home gym, or you can build up to other weights and equipment from there. What are your favorite I mean you've mentioned stuff like squats and lifting stuff. Maybe give us like three favorites, favorite moves that people could start with. Yeah, I mean I love a lot of these core exercises and their variations. So one of my favorite exercises is a goblet squat where you're standing with your feet a little bit wider than hip distance, your toes are pointed out, and you're holding a weight in your hand, just one single weight. Then you squat down to your butt, gets about to knee level, and then drive up through the heels. I love this because first it's a squat, so you're working multiple muscles in your legs. But ladies, these days, we're all talking about the glutes and the booty and all that stuff. So yeah, I'm talking about health and fitness, but we also want to look good, right, That's part of our motivation. So goblet squat is nice because sometimes when people it distributes your weight a little bit further and it's sometimes a little bit easier for people to get into. But you can do a single goblet squat. You can slow it down where you're dropping down slowly and then standing up for one count. You can slow all the counts down. You can do pulsing squats. You could add a band at your legs. So a goblet squat is great because it's a compound movement using a lot of different muscles and pretty easy to execute whether you're at home or in the gym. I'm a back girl, so I love working in the back. It's one of those muscle groups that we never think about because we can't see it, but we also are always talking about the back. Strength and back health is very important. Posture is important. So even something like a seated resistance band pull where you can put the handle band around your feet, sit down and literally keep your shoulders down away from your ears, and pull your elbows back so you can again very the pace with that, you can loop both bands in one arm and do a single arm row. You can do it standing up. But rows and backwork are really important because I just see posture, especially we're working from home. We're rolling down on your shoulders around it from the computer, and you see so many people having back issues or saying that other exercises are difficult, so anything that helps us build a really strong core I love so a row, a banded row would be great. Then let me think, gosh, no, those are really my two favorites. But I think the third one I'm going to say deadlifts because it's the one exercise that most people are super scared of. But you can easily work up to the deadlift. People are scared about deadlifts because they say, oh, it hurts my back. But I think if you have really good posture and you work on keeping your core tight, you can start with again no weight. You can use resistance vans, you can use dumbells, you can use your cat. You know, you use a lot of things to lift up the weight. But the great thing is it is a whole posterior chaining. Mean, it's working the back of your legs, your core because you have to keep it tight, you know, the upper part of the back. You know. You just work so many parts of the body with the dead lift, and it's a highly functional movement. So I live in Michigan, so there's a lot of snow. I think about the muscles that I'm using. If I have to shovel, I think those are the things that that you know between posture, working the full body, and you know, doing some really hard it's some really helpful functional movements this Goblet squad. I love deadlifts and then some seated rose or standing rose would be my favorite. I love it. Okay, I want to ask some logistical questions about how it works with your personal training, because you guys were doing online virtual even before the pandemic corret. So I've been doing that for over three years and exclusively for the last two and a half. I've actually found it amazing. I've trained in the gym and I've trained online, and I prefer online training. Wow, So work me through the logistics. Is this like sort of customized at home training and your your video, face to face kind of FaceTime your trainer or do they give you pre planned workouts? Tell me as if I was a prospective clients, tell me what it would be like. It's a great question. It's definitely customized because every single person is different, and specifically we work with people who are busy and high performing, so we have folks who have the craziest schedules that you've ever heard of. So I really have to look at each person as an end individual. I use a lot of apps in my training, so there's both an educational component, which I want people to learn why they're doing things and why we take this approach, but then the practical component, the other app that I use. We put together their program. They can do it anywhere, anytime, so the flexibility is really really helpful. But for every single exercise, their instructions and a quick video that they can pull up just on their phone or their iPad, So if they don't know what a goblet squad looks like, they hit the video and there's a written explanation, a video explanation, and a whole bunch of things that go with it, so they can easily just execute the exercise. So I try to make things as simple for people as possible, because the audience that I work with are people who are not necessarily they can't be tied to an appointment because they might be they might work third shift, or they might have four kids going off to different activities at night. And so I found that when I train people in a gym, very limited by schedule, So now my clients can do their workouts wherever. So I've had a client who's like, hey, Jennifer, I have to go to Korea next month, can we put something together. It's like absolutely, So it's flexible, it's easy to follow. Then we check in with each other on a very regular basis, so they have a formal check in each week, but then using lots of different communication apps, which I think we're all getting really familiar with nowadays, with this quarantine, we can communicate throughout the week, questions, form checks, so it's almost like having me right there with you throughout your whole week without just the only differences we're not physically in contact with each other. So I love it because I think I can provide a more robust experience for my clients but then also fit in with their schedule. And I remember what those days look like. I would work really late and then I would take my daughter to you know, cheer practice or softball, and it's like, so I had like twenty minutes at the weirdest time of the day, and I needed to be able to fit in something healthy for me. So yeah, we help people and with nutrition, we give them nutrition guidelines, exercise, and then of course the behavioral and mindset things that go along with making big changes in your life. So it's a really complete total coaching experience. And our clients have just been awesome and they've seen such amazing results and they haven't had to stop with this whole pandemic thing. I mean, that's the upside of that. Very Do most people do their workouts from home? Or do most people use your app in a gym? Or is it it's about half and half? Obviously nowadays it's it's about too but yeah, most people will. Some people love going to the gym, some people do it at home. There are certain also a fair amount of people who have things that they love fitness wise, like let's say there go to Orange Theory, or they you know, have their favorite zumba class. We just incorporate that into a more well rounded overall training. So it really varies. And I have been able to program stuff for people who have absolutely nothing, and I've programmed for people who have access to a full gym. That's so cool. I have no doubt that there are going to be some listeners today that are going to be like, sign me up right now, So where can they find you and how can they do? Absolutely so I think the best place to go is my website at the real it's the Real Jennifer Nagel dot com. And as a bonus, if you guys are watching, right across the top, there's a link to some healthy workouts, some resistance training things that you can do at home. So if you're stuck at home during this quarantine, just click on that link and you'll download three full body you'll three resistance training workouts which will give you a full body experience. Plus a little bonus. I know music is important, so my favorite DJ mix some workout music for everybody so they can throw that into so dancing is great. Car, I just want to say that we should all that. Yeah, but go to the website and there are multiple ways to contact me from there, and if you're on Instagram, you can also find me at the Real Jennifer Nagel. I have a great, great, great Facebook group Facebook Community, so you can find us modern women getting Fit and that's a wonderful group of women who just want to like support each other. We have a lot of fun. You could probably tell them pretty relaxed, so we have a lot of fun. There's a lot of great resources there, but you can all get there from the website. The real Jennifernagel dot com. Awesome, well, Jennifer. We always end with a love of the week, which is something that is exciting for us these days. Sarah and I can go first, so you can you can think of yours. Sarah, did you want to start? We always make a start. Yeah. I feel bad that mine's not like Fitness or Lead, but it's not. So. I recently did a home style session with a prior podcast guest, a virtual home style session through Zoom, and one find that she has shared but I don't know, I would like to reiterate her share, which is the Uniclo drape crew neck, short sleeved T shirt. It's like fifteen dollars and it looks like a fancy worktop. I'm not wearing it right now, as you can tell, but like seriously, I was. I was skeptical, but once it arrived, I was extremely impressed. And now I've worn it two days, two different colors, two days. That's okay. You can wear the same one two days in a row. Two we're stuck in our houses, why not. But you can machine wash it so even better. So I say, my love of the week is you know, I got to still put in for my runs. You know, I know we're talking strength training, but I've realized it's and I need to do more strength training and you're reminding me of that, and I will I will do that. But you know, there's also like the mental health benefits. I think of things like a run because a I'm getting out of the house for half an hour be just sort of not thinking of any thing and not not listening to anything, no inputs. I'm just letting my mind go. And that's been great for me too, So I you know, I always love running. That this has been especially good during this quarantine to have that outlet. Now I just need to get on the strength training too. How about you, Jennifer, what's your love of the week? Oh my goodness, there are a couple, but I'm going to go with I spend a lot of time as an online trainer in front of computers in my phone, and I most recently got these blue light glasses that have really helped reduce some of the strain on my eyes. So I'm all about health and wellness and I actually like to run too. I just start doing a little running for mental health. But the glasses have been so incredibly helpful, and I was just so shocked because I had no idea that you know, you don't really know that you're having an issue. But my husband recommended getting a pair, and some of my other online entrepreneur friends were like, oh, they swore by it. So yeah, I've been wearing these blue light blocking glasses which have really been beneficial. Plus I think they're kind of cute, so I can look smarter at them. We can vouch for that. So we have a video comp we can see Jennifer and she looks she looks brilliant, So yeah, they don't look they just look like normal glasses, but they're super cute and yes, you look very smart. All right, Well this is Jennifer Nagel has been discussing strength training and how to make time and all that for working out. So Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Sarah Laura, I had a great time. Thank you. Well, that was an awesome interview, and now we get to our listener question. Sarah, I wanted to tee this one up because I think this came from Yeah, this came through the blog. It was a blog comment and it was just a suggestion to They said they were kind of terrified about the whole summer stretching out in front of them, and they said, could you maybe answer in a question or maybe an entire episode maybe that one's coming of, just some discussion or suggestion of things to do this summer under the current. The current you know, parameters and circumstances which do kind of vary from location to location. But I think she meant with significant social distancing measures still in place. So, I mean the thing that came to mind for me is Laura's Summer fun List. Yeah, so I posted every summer I post a summer fun list on my blog, which are a list of things that make summer feel like summer to me that I want to do by the end of summer, making various memories of the family. And you know, different years have been different things. I mean, I've had stuff like go to a Phillies game, go to big concerts somewhere. Some of that may not be as possible this year. I mean, I still hope it will, and I will tell you I would go to a Phillies game. I would go to a big concert. Other people may not feel the same, but that's their call, we will do what is an outdoor country. I would go to an indoor but an outdoor outdoor. There's actually studies showing outdoor transmission is really rare. So get outside, get outside. Yeah, So there are those things that are there are plenty of things that will still be available, like going for hikes with the kids, like doing projects with the kids. I encourage you to come up with a big project that each kid can do that you can be somewhat tangentially involved with, and especially if it's something that you can do part of it and then let them go do their own part of it for an hour by yourself sometime, you know. So you can check out my summer fun list. You might want to make your own. I'm going to I think we're going to start redoing. Some activities are going to start up. I think there will most likely be a limited summer baseball league here that we will be able to do. At least three of our children want to do that. The Karate studio is reopening for outdoor classes, which is great because they were doing zoom lessons. But my children just don't pay attention well to zoom, so I was focusing whatever firepower I had on getting them to do their actual school work. No ability to get them to do extracurriculars online at this fine, once they're back in the studio or outside the studio as the case may be, we'll be doing that. There's some camps that I think are going to go that they were just waiting to see with the stay at home order. None of the ones we signed out for they're all canceled. But there are going to be things like, you know, horseback riding lessons or tennis lessons, the things that you could do with small groups outside. I think those may be able to happen, So I would consider, you know, look look at those sorts of things in your area as well. Yeah, it's definitely not all or nothing. There's some good kind of gray area options that are out there. I love the idea of a list to just, you know, anytime you have you feel like you have a menu of things to choose from. Even if that menu may not contain every choice in the entire world that you were expecting before no trip to Fiji, it's still a menu. So I encourage this person to do that for themselves. It's hard to do it for somebody else because we don't know what you love. I plan to keep the kids on the same kind of a schedule where they have mourning outdoor time and then some kind of more indoor learning type focused activities yes the summer, why not, and then like more downtime in the afternoon and video games and that kind of a thing, since that's what they've been enjoying now. And I am very much hoping we can take a kind of low key trip as well, because I think we can use the change of scenery, as could many and there's some good ways of doing that that shouldn't involve too much contact if that is something that you could still concern about exactly. All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. So we've been talking strength training with Jennifer Nagel and we'll be back next week with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.