PODCAST EXCLUSIVE: The MOST DRAMATIC Finale in ‘Bachelor’ History with Clayton & Susie

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Speaker 1: What is a Bachelor happy hour? The time is cuff. We are here. We have seen the finale. We saw everything that went down in Iceland and it is crazy, but Clayton's season has officially come to an end. Becca, You and I I know have so much to say, so much to talk about this episode, and we also have so many questions for our amazing guest today. Yes we do, and if you couldn't have already guessed, we of course had to bring on the man himself. So we will have clean on here very shortly. And if you didn't watch the finale, you missed out because he is back with Susie, which was interesting for Serena and I Because I gotta start this podcast by saying, I'm want to time stamp us a little bit. We are recording prior to the live finale. The last thing we saw was basically the breakup between Susan and Clayton and her leaving him in Iceland, but we weren't at the finale to watch it live on stage, and so with that, once we bring Clayton and Susie on, we might be re asking recapping some of the same stuff that was covered on stage. Apologies in advance, but we also have so much more time with the couple today that we can really dive in and get deeper, ask more questions, get way more answers than what Serena and I were left with, you know, watching these last two episodes. So before we bring them on, we're going to do a quick little recap because, like you just said, Serena, so much went down. It was wild. Her and I were texting while we were watching this, literally fuming. I don't think I've been this stressed out for any other relationship other than my own ever ever. No, I mean, I made the mistake of watching it before bed, So I finished the episode at like eleven thirty pm Toronto time, and I was laying in bed texting Beccat and just couldn't sleep until like two am. I was so stressed out, I had so many emotions. I had raging heartburn from just all of the emotions I was feeling about this episode. But we have so many questions for Susie and Clayton, and I know that we're going to get to talk all about them and their relationship and their journey, So I think I would love to talk about Gabby and Rachel yeah, our recap right now. I mean, you should see my notes right now. And I usually like I'll take a couple of notes for each episode. I can't even begin to tell you how much I had. I picked everything apart, because yeah, there was so much. And I think let's just start at the beginning of the first episode, at that Row ceremony in Iceland, when Susie was already gone, it was just Gabby and Rachel, like, overall, what stuck out to you in that Row ceremony? Okay, So Clayton going to the Rose ceremony, I mean, we'd seen the trailers, so we kind of had an idea of what we were about to watch. So I'm already like sweating with anxiety. As they enter the Rose ceremony, Clayton tells the women what went down, and as much as I can see why he made that decision after Susie left because of what happened, I can see him being like, let's just bite the bullet, let's talk all the woman, let's put all the cards on the table. I don't love his approach here. I think this should have been separate one on one conversations and then watching like Rachel's sob on the stairs and Gabby, you know, talking about how she now feels measured. I mean it was so hard to watch. Oh difficult, and the staff part too, is like, just to give the show some credit, that location for the ROAs ceremony was stunning, dunning. The one thing that stuck out to me the most is not the not the conversation that he had where he was like, you know, I was intimate with two women. I've told both of you that I love you. It was the fact that he approached it as like, I want to be completely honest and transparent with these women and they can decide what to do if they want to accept the rose, great, if they don't, I respect that. Because him saying that didn't line up with then the fact that Gabby chose to decline the rows and leave, and then he still kind of pulled her in. Obviously from a show aspect, you can't just leave like one girl left this week's standing when there's still so much and Clayton still had relationships that he wanted to explore, but it just really made it difficult to hear his words and line up with his actions. They didn't match up, and so I was watching that, like, I was like, poor Gabby, just let her go, you know, like gladly if that's what she wants. I don't think Clayton knew exactly what he wanted in that moment. I think he was being very reactive. I mean, we saw him be very reactive, and the conversation with Susie, like you could tell his emotions just completely took over. And I feel like that was kind of a lingering effect because I think he was trying to just be like, Okay, well, I just want to be proactive now and just tell them everything all at once, right away as soon as possible, to not feel the way that Susie made me feel when she left, And then I think he kind of backtracked, realizing, oh my gosh, what have I done. I don't want these women to leave, like rasping onto it. But I mean, there would be a lot of things that would be very upset about if I was Rachel and Dabby in the situation. But I think personally, one of the things that would have bothered me the most is when you go into fantasy suits, that time is supposed to be private time between you and the lead, and my expectation if I was them going into the fantasy suits, would be that that time together would be kept private. So to find out, like if I'm one of the women and I have been intimate with clay and to find it that not only did he tell another woman, but he disclosed it to all of the viewers as well, Like I'm seeing them being like my parents are watching this, like like he kind of took that choice away from them and took their privacy away. In my opinion, totally, I felt for those two women in that moment so much, and and that continued, like I you know, we've all been in the position where something's uncomfortable, where like whatever it might be, whether it's a breakup, whether it's finding out you know your partner has feelings for somebody else, whatever it might be, it's so difficult. And what I will say is I really commend Gabby for being able to vocalize so well how she's feeling. But to also say, Clayton, how do you think us as women feel? Like put yourselves in our shoes. I know you think you're trying to do the right thing, but really take a step back, and you're not being empathetic to us and putting yourselves in our shoes, which that said continued because moving on from that rose ceremony, we get into like the real meat of the show, and it was so difficult to watch everything go down because not only did he have these two women who he has told he's fallen in love with them with you know, fallen in love with them, he had then had them meet his family, which is such a major milestone and so important, especially when there's only two women left to keep them around to bring them to meet the families. Only too after that second family meeting, he says, oh, wait, I still love this third woman. I have to go back to her. In that moment, I truly wish he would have before went back to Susie, had gone to the two women he was in the relationship with to have a conversation and say, this is where my head in my heart is at. I'm potentially thinking of going to chat with Susie, but I want to be upfront and honest, like he said the whole time, and I wish he would have been much more direct at that point in time. I agree. It really just felt like a long snowball effect from the beginning of Fantasy Fantasy Suite week to the end of the finale episode, and I think my biggest criticism for Clayton would be just a lack of empathy in how he has treated these women, and like we can do our best to like see his side of things and like be like Okay, like I can understand maybe why you made that decision or like why you said this, But at the end of the day, like it just has gotten worse and worse and worse, and it's just been a roller coaster because watching that road ceremony to then you know, a day or two later, seeing Gabby and Rachel meet the family, and you can tell they've basically like picked themselves up, been like we're going to move forward, We're gonna fight for this relationship. They are confessing their love for this man, how they want a future with him to his family, like they are back in a place of just being completely open and vulnerable to then for Clayton to realize like it was susy and then go back and shatter them again, like it was unbelievably painful to watch, Like I was almost in tears watching Rachel just saw because I just feel like everyone can relate to that feeling of heartbreak and just feeling like someone is like stepping on your chest. Like that pain was so evident in both these women that I really want to be like Clayton, I really wish you had taken a step back, like he clearly just needed more time to process, and like if he had taken that, like I really hope that he could have seen how his actions were going to impact all three of these women. But like in this last episode, specifically Rachel and Gabby, the hardest part to watch was the breakup that he had with both women at the same time, because I'm trying to watch it as like if these were my best friends, if these were my girlfriends, how would I want somebody to approach this? And I find it and this is my personal opinion and something that I actually do want to bring up to Clayton when we have him on. I find it so disrespectful to have gone to that room with both women sitting down together and to break up with them at the same time. If he truly was falling in love with both of them, if he truly could have seen the future with both of them like he said he was, he should have given each individual woman enough time enough to care, enough, respect, empathy, anything alone for them to be able to process with him away from each other. I felt like that moment I was literally cringing. I was like, what the fuck am I watching right now? Like I cannot believe he's doing this as like a joint breakup. I feel like I don't I don't even want to like try to think of like where his mindset was. I just I truly wish in that day the breakups are going to be hard enough. I already feel for those women because we all know what it feels like to be broken up with on the show that well, maybe you don't mind, but I just really wished he would have had separate time with both of them, to have them ask whatever they wanted, have them say whatever they wanted, to have them have enough time, because that was a really shitty position to be put in, and I felt so bad for both of them. And then, but I will say this, when when he has to walk Abby out and she's like no her face, I was like, yes, girl, I would have been the same. I would have been like, are you seriously asking to walk me out? Right now? Like I would be do you want to just walk me and Rachel out together to throw us in the same vanda. Oh my gosh, Like I get he has to ask that, but like I was, like, good for you, Gabby for being like I will walk myself out to that van, thank you very much. But oh, I just I literally felt sick watching him sit down in the room with both of them. I can't even imagine how they felt. And like, I'm pretty sure at the Rose ceremony, he in Gabby and his conversation and said, like, I see you all as individuals, like your relationship is special, Like you are each different women, and I have different love for each of you. But in reality, like you said this previously, his actions and words just weren't matching up a lot throughout this episode, because it's like, if you truly felt that way, you would have felt a sense of duty to these women to treat each relationship individually and therefore have individual breakups with these women because they are individual people and individual relationship Like this is not this is not like sister wise, like they like, I get you're dating multiple women, but like you're not all in a relationship together. Yeah, and at this point, it's not a Rose ceremony where you send multiple people home, like he had already had overnights, Like he said he was already intimate, he had already fallen in love and expressed that like that that takes every relationship to a whole new level. And it just was so disrespectful. I have never seen anything like that in the show. I've honestly never felt like this watching the show, and I like, I'm not even in this relationship. I shouldn't have these feelings for relationships I'm not part of. It's just and it's hard, you know, I'm trying to stay objective here. Again, we will have time to chat with Clayton about it. I really hope he can shed some insight as to like where his mindset was. All I have to say, though, is that Gabby and Rachel deserved a freaking limo filled with champagne, with puppies, with pizza, with all the carbs, with like a free freaking vacation to somewhere tropical and warm. I mean, man, I hope that now. I hope now being outside of it and outside of filming, they have each other to lean on and support one another because you know, they I'm sure have very similar feelings and emotions, but it was so much, and it was very heavy all throughout the entire episode up until so heavy the proposal that was the whole second I mean, don't get wrong, Part one of this finale on Monday night was really heavy for sure, Definitely a rollercoaster of emotions. Definitely a lot of twists and turns and shocking moments. Part two was truly just a total train wreck, a complete dumpster fire. I was like unbelievably emotional watching it the whole time. It was just so hard and heavy to get through. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm hoping that's not the case, because as we've heard, the couple is together. I'm assuming they're happy. We'll have them on right now to ask all of these burning questions because we can speculate as much as we want, but I really want to hear it, as Jesse Palmer said at women at All from the horse's mouth. So I think with that, Serena, it's time to bring on both Clayton and Susie and see how they're doing. So, without further ado, a bachelor happy hour, Please welcome Clayton and Susie. All right, you two. I'm so excited to have you here because we have a lot to dive into, so many questions. I'm assuming so much that transpired between the breakup unfortunate. I don't even want to say that, because you're happy together now, but the breakup in Iceland versus now, So can you just fill us in on every everything that transpired to get us the last today. The last thing we saw, just for context is Susie getting in the car and Clayton standing in Iceland. So we want every detail from that moment to now. Please. A lot has happened. Yeah, I can say that I was the first to reach out pretty soon after Iceland, and I didn't reach out with the intentions of restarting a relationship or knowing where that conversation was going to go. But I think we both had been through a lot and we both loved each other a lot, and I just wanted to reach out and ask for one more conversation with him and if he if he was interested, and um, we pretty much talked until we fell asleep for like, Yeah, it was like five hours our first conversation, and then every conversation since then it was pretty much the same way. Yeah, I remember after the first conversation at the end of it, I was like, should I call you tomorrow? Was done, what are we doing? And she's like, you can call me tomorrow if you want. Then when she first reached out out and the DM, she slid slid into them and oh that's how they always do it. And I saw I was just scrolling through my DMS because I was actually like I was still just traveling back and I'm scrolling through my DMS, and all of a sudden, I see her name. I was like, this has got to be some fake account trying to catch me, like they're trying to already spoil the edddate. So I had to click on and I had to like do some recon and saw that the account was legitimate and uh yeah. Then, like she said, we just talked day after day after day and uh and then finally I just I think I was the one that made the push. I said, hey, like we should try to meet up. I mean when we keep talking and this is great, but like, what are we what is this? Like, you know, are we going to try to well? I mean, because I was trying to put a title on there something, I was like, give me, like I don't know what I'm doing what are we? I was like, are we? What are we doing here? But I we just I was like are we? We're both having fun? But like is this just for temporary? Like for whatever? So I asked her, I said, hey, like we should try to meet back up and like just take a week in together and maybe we'll find out whether or not we want to continue from that point. And now we're I guess four months from that point. And how long is it did you wait to reach out? Like was it a couple of days after Iceland? Was it a couple of weeks that That night, I got my phone, I called my parents and then I slid into Clayton's DMS because like boom, boom boom. Yes, Like I knew in my heart leaving Ice and I was like, this isn't over for me, But I also knew that well. I mean to be quite honest, I was freaked out about everything and I didn't know the capacity which I wanted Clayton in my life. I didn't. I felt like after our Fantasy Suite date night, I was like, why you know, why did that like a switch flip for him? Where we went from like trying to talk things out to um. You know, I felt like it kind of got turned and I was just like what, like what was that? You know, like I and we didn't really have the time or the capacity, that the ability to have all the conversations we needed to have for me to be like, Okay, I want to read, I want to have a relationship with you. So I knew I needed to break things off because I just yeah, I had to let Clayton go in that moment, I also knew that, I mean, it sounds crazy to say, but I knew that there were other people in Iceland that loved him and that he loved and I was like, if me breaking this off gives him that clarity to go be with somebody else, and like I have to support that because I don't know if I want to be with him right now. And yeah, we took we took a step back, several steps back, and then it's given me a lot of clarity and now I feel like I really know who Clayton is now. I feel like, yeah, I'm comfortable and we were comfortable taking the steps that we took to be like becoming boyfriend girlfriend. I asked him to be my boyfriend. Yeah, what do you two now? Well, yeah, so I have so many questions, and I know Serena does too. I want to know what one I should ask of, like where to begin? I guess let's take it back to the fantasy suite night, like your breakup. You know, at that moment you chose to end things in walk Away because he had been intimate and did say he fell in love with two other women and it was too much for you. You couldn't compromise who you were. You know that was what change in your mind to get to now, Okay, I'm ready to be with him. Was it the fact that you knew he ended things with those other two girls? What was that change or that shifted for you? I think for me, I was so I was super freaked out of the idea of leaving with Clayton and feeling like I was sharing him with somebody else so that he would second guess things. And to be honest, I remember going into that week just not thinking that it was me. I had this feeling answering, I just don't think it's me. And I love Clayton before you know, romantically, I love him as a person and if he has found his person through this and obviously I'm going to be happy for him, because that's like the name of the game, Like Clayton is there to find love and it might happen or it might not. But you know, I was just trying to stay really like level headed of maybe, you know, maybe it's somebody else. And I thought that if it were me, Like I was like, I want him to know by this point that it's me, and I want him to protect me and to protect what we have. And I felt like I couldn't see myself leading Iceland confident in what we had if he had like brought those relationships to the next level. And I mean, I just I couldn't fathom him being in love with multiple women like it everything. I was just like, how, like, how am I supposed to feel confident in what we have? And yeah, I think in the discussions that we had in Iceland and then especially post Iceland, we've, yeah, we've kind of figured out what it is that we need from each other. And I think taking those steps back was what I needed for clarity. And I also think that night when everything first kind of happened at the Fantasy Sweet Date night, I was hearing Clayton and I was like, I actually understand, Like I understand, Like I didn't think I would, but I understand what you're saying because you're telling me that you fall in love with multiple people. So your actions weren't in disregard for me. They were just in regard for those relationships. And that's that's totally fair. It was just really hard for me to wrap my head around and feel comfortable and confident in a relationship moving forward, right, Yeah, And I feel like when you're in it, it's like like hindsight is always twenty twenty in life in general, but like I mean back and I can relate to, Like when you're in it, it's so all consuming and like it is hard to sometimes see bigger picture or like things like you're I don't know, like there's just a sense of clarity, like separating yourself once you've left the show, Like there's just a whole other kind of clarity. But I want to ask you this in Clayton, I'll ask I'll ask you the same question after. But looking back on that conversation with Clayton from that breakup, do you have any regrets anything you wish you had done differently? I mean I'm sure you wish the whole conversation had gone differently, but just specifically to you and then Clayton, I would love to hear your answer to that as well. Yeah, I think I could have done so many things differently, and we both feel that way in general, and we both acknowledge the places that we could have done better or the places that we did good. And for me, there's a lot of things that would have changed, but specifically and during that conversation, I think I would have been like, like, why are you freaking out right now? Because I was so caught off guard and now we understand like where his mind was that like he kind of thought like, oh, did you just play me to get to this point? And in that moment, I was like, wait, why are you why are you freaking out? Because but I didn't ask that. I was just like trying to explain like this isn't you know, this isn't fake, this isn't fake. But instead of like asking more questions to get to the bottom of what was going through his mind, we just were like both in this like panic mode where we were like I was like, and now I'm freaked out, You're freaked out? Like we were just going back and forth of like the panic. I think we both were just totally blindsided by each other. And yeah, I would have asked more questions and I would have just been more direct and I would have communicated better overall. Yeah, yeah, very similar for me. I wish that I would have. I think the biggest thing is obviously I regret the way I handled it when I became frustrated and raised my voice. I you know, would have it would have been great if I could have just taken twenty minutes and stepped aside and like taken a breather. It was, you know, my head was racing, and I did have these dark thoughts halfway through the interview of you know, she's here maybe to be the next batch Rette, and this was everything that I had happened previously with some of the other women kind of coming and being exposed for playing a game, and so I just I let those thoughts creep in. And then that was at that point when we were I was outside talking to Jesse and she came and talked to me. That was when my head started transition and you could see it in my face where She's like, you want to go back inside and talk and I said, sure, yeah, I want to hear what you have to say. But I got into a bad headspace at that point, and then from there, I mean again, people saw my actions, and I do regret the way that I handled that. I just was, I was in disbelief and yeah, and I was trying to make sense of what it was and I couldn't see her perspective, and I do see it now, but I think I kind of got into this mindset in that environment where I made assumptions. And that was one of my other biggest regrets is I assumed that all of the women kind of expected me to potentially be intimate, potentially fall in love with multi women. And it's crazy to even say that I think that that would be an assumption, but I thought, in this world, in this environment, that's kind of a known, like, we know what the Sweek's about. And that was wrong. And as everyone saw as I brought it up to the other women, all of them are very frustrated and upset. And that was a big, big moment for me when I realized, you made assumptions and because of that, you couldn't have been more off, and now you have to deal with your actions that you assumed everybody was on the same page, with which nobody was. I mean I Serena and I talked about this on the podcast last week a little bit because we were obviously recapping your last day, that last sight together. The fantasy suites were prior to that, and I was trying to see both sides. And I will say, like Serena and I got a lot of criticism because I feel like people think it's so black and white, like people wanted to be either team Susie or Team Clayton, and that's not always the case, right, Like we are trying to look at your relationships and your season as a whole objectively, and so you know, me being both on the Bad Short and as Bad SHORTT, I could see both of your points of view. I could see both sides of being broken up with and being the one to break up with somebody. And it's a lot, and there's so much scrutiny that goes into especially for you, Cleyton, every single action decision you make, like it is heightened because you have millions of people watching you and dating MTV is always hard. We I'm sure you guys are experiencing that now, and to be quite honest, it's probably gonna be hard for a while. Unfortunately. It's great that you two have each other and are happy now, but it will be tough. And so how do you think moving forward you two are going to be able to support each other in the public eye and dealing with all of that scrutiny and people's comments and criticism. I think, yeah, I think we're both. I think the only the only comments they see that I agree with are the ones that say, Clayton, you know, had every right to explore these relationships, and Susie had every right to, you know, walk away, and like people who are respecting most sides, isn't the only ones where I'm like, that's like spot on, and that's how we feel. We both felt that we we both were valid and we don't like it's really hard right now to see every buddy basically taking sides because we're like, they don't know we're together. So people are taking side and they're splitting and they're being divisive and they're like claiming these absolutes and we are. We were four months past it, and we're together and we both see each other's perspective, and we both have given each other grace where we need where we've needed to, and so I think, yeah, I just I mean for me, I'm like anyone that supports me like just no, like I'm I am, I would say, pretty picky. I think we're both pretty picky people when it comes to dating, Like we've we have high standards, and I would not be dating Clayton if he were a bad person or if he were you know, disrespectful when we had arguments, like I wouldn't stick around for that. I left him in Iceland, like I wasn't afraid to say no, I don't want to be in this relationship because I didn't know if it was good for me. But it is good for me, and so I guess for me, I just want to ask anybody that is supporting me right now, just know that, like I'm making this choice and it's best for me, so please support us together and support Clayton as well. Yeah. I think that's you know, really well, said I at the end of it. I mean, again, I've faced a ton of heat just from the start, just for even accepting the role, and so it's I've kind of just been used to this, and I hope that through us being together, this doesn't bring a lot of heat on her. You know, I do expect there to be some blowback because people are going to be frustrated that she took somebody back like me. But the fact of the matter is is that again, those people making those comments and assumptions don't know who I am. She does, my loved ones do. Her loved ones do like and they are very much supportive of us as as a team. And so that's what I think I keep telling myself, and that's what we keep talking about, is at the end of it at all, if you're not if you're not supporting us as a team, if you're not supporting us, we're happy. Our loved ones are all supportive. They see both sides. As everyone saw. My family was like, yeah, dude, you totally messed up. So I again, just having them come in and say that just to hit it hit me because I really didn't have anybody to turn to until that point and had my parents straight up it's be like, dude, you screwed up. And it was the best thing that could have happened for them to come in at that point and say that, because That's when it smacked me in the face. I was like, this is why I have you in my life, because you, as my family, will tell me how it is and you guys hold me accountable. And they did, and so you know, going forward though, again they're very supportive, they're very happy for the both of us, and we're going to face criticism. You can't keep everyone happy. I've clearly learned that this entire way, and so we won't be able to. But I do believe people will see that what we have is authentic and that will, you know, have people start to cheer for us both and the more that they get to see of our relationship. But whatever we decide to show, people will see that this is not something that was just built in two months. But we've had four months since the show, so you're talking about a half year of dating, and now we get to go outside of here and date in the real world and hope, you know, I mean it moving in the other and given that a fair shot here soon, so moving in and starting that chapter, so like really kind of picking things up and saying like, all right, let's see if we can you know, if we live together. That's the next step let's see how this goes, and there's no talent. We both know that relationships require work, but at the end of the day, we know this is the next best step for us to see if this is actually something that'll be long term. Yeah, that's so exciting. And you know what, Clayton, I did not mean to giggle, but it almost is humorous when you said, I've been getting criticism just for accepting the role as bachelor, like right from the beginning, and it really is mind boggling to the extent. I mean, look, you've made mistakes. Every lead has made mistakes. I do feel like you have gotten an extreme amount of criticism this season, and it is sad to see people take sides and teams and not just be like, you know, everyone's entitled to their opinion about the show and like analyzing it, but like, you guys are together, like you are a team together, Like it's not Clayton or Susie, Like it is Clayton and Susie now. And I'm for the world to be able to see that and you guys to be able to openly share that and support one another, because at the end of the day, like all it comes down to is your happiness and what is the right decision for you? So I think people being able to see you guys together and like see the love you have will hopefully ease it up because obviously, like we've all been there, we've all gotten hate and it's just never an easy thing to go through. But I want to touch on your family because obviously we saw Susy go in for the firm handshake when she met them, just a nice little throwback to her entrance. Yes, Hello, did so much the first Alema, you firm handshaked me as well. Yeah, that's what I was laughing. I was like susing back at it again. And she's consistent. She is consistent. That's embarrassing. No, it was great. Um, so can you tell us, you know, have you met each other's families? How has that gone? I mean, Clayton, was your family shocked? Yeah, so we've both met well, obviously I went to her hometown, so I met her family in person. We've allso since talked on Zoom and vice versa. She's met my technolque, she's met my family as well on the show and then and then we've talked on Zoom as well. And yeah, my family was absolutely shocked. I can't remember. I think I withheld it from my mom for a little while because my mom, I love her to death, but I can't tell her. I tell her to keep a secret. That thing is out of her mouth next twenty minutes. So now she's gotten a lot better with that. But I think I held back a little bit also because when she first reached out, I didn't want to jinksid. I didn't want to like go tell everybody and get everyone's help steps just like and get including my own, just to be like, oh wait. After a week of talking, we realized we don't want to continue this, so I kind of kept tight lips about it. Talked to my brothers and told them, and they were like all right, you know, they were like that's really great. We're happy for you, but just be careful and and so I mean because again like they knew that how how shadowed I was, or you know, from like the whole experience, and how they're like, okay, really you've kind of you kind of had your closure when she left you, and now you're about to open the wound back up. So it really they were just at that point like, all right, we'll see where this goes, because they were as shocked as I was to see her reach out. But now, of course, I mean we've been on so many zooms, were like face times with them and just you know, it's like we're all hanging out virtually, and they're all excited to meet her in person. So everyone's pumped at this point. Yeah. Good, Well, I'm excited to see all of that unfold. I want to ask you, and I want to take it back a little bit, dude, I have so many questions. I want to be all over the place just to warn you, but I'm trying to put myself back in your position because I feel like how you two ended things kind of reminds me of how I ended things with Thomas. Like we left the Beaches of Paradise broken up, and then I, like you, Susie went back, you know, reached out to Thomas to see you know, like, could this work like just testing the waters if you will, like not putting any pressure on the relationship. Do you feel like how things ended in Iceland with the breakup. Obviously you weren't engaged, so you didn't have the pressure of the ring and the engagement, like in the back of your mind. Do you think that helped kind of restart your relationship and make you stronger because that pressure was off. Yeah. I actually I didn't know you guys left the beach together. I think it was I think Paradise was ending when we were filming stuff, so I didn't know that. But that's really cool. I felt. Yeah, I felt like I had to take a step away because I was afraid of accepting that rose and then being like, there's going to be pressure. I'm going to put pressure on myself to stay with Flat not necessarily the show or the fans or anything, but I know myself, and if I accepted that rose in Iceland, I would be I would be like there, I just knew I was going to have pressure to stay with Clayton through you know, afar and whatever. Like, I just I know myself, and I was like, the only way I can protect myself and honestly our relationship now is to step away and and do what I have to do. We had to heal from things that happened in Iceland. We had to take time to like move past things, and Yeah, I think the lack of pressure that I was going to put on myself or that anybody from anywhere I was going to put on me. Yeah, I felt I felt like I had to do that. And I do think I feel really confident in where we're at today and that we're here because we both want to be here, not because you know, we're waiting for the show or something like that. Like I just I know myself, and I was like, this is the way I have to protect myself in this. And yeah, there wasn't pressure, Like we didn't put pressure on ourselves in this first few weeks of talking to even meet up. We just kind of we just talked until we Yeah, I couldn't keep our eyes open every night, and that was like what we laid the foundation for our relationship and the trip just yeah that I needed it. I had to listen. I get it. I was the same way. It's like, in a way, you want to protect yourself, right, but if you're giving the relationship you're all you have to at some point be like, Okay, we're either going to do this or not. But at least you know that whether it worked out or not, you would still have that friendship. It's not like you had to go into dating right away and have like the show be like, are you together? Are you together? What's going on? And so I think it's honestly, I totally understand, and it's for me and Thomas. It was the perfect way to really jumpstart our relationship. Yeah. I remember facetiming back at Joe and I were FaceTime backa like a week after Paradise and She's like, guess what, guys, I'm going on a date with Thomas today. But hey, go ahead, No, no, keep going, keep going. No. I was just gonna say, like it worked out for them, it was clearly working out for you guys. Everyone has their own path in this journey. And my question was going to be and I was trying to find like a natural segue for this, but it's just not coming to mind. Is there anything watching it back that you guys were surprised about? Whether it was about like an interview moment or like watching a relationship, because like, I feel like there were so many moments that you guys had together, but then also where you were like separated, like Susie watching with his family. Like what surprised you the most watching it back? What do you think if we're just talking about us towards the end, there as far as just how it all unfolded, really something that surprised me, but it was good for me to see because again, it taught me more or less life lessons. Was I remember thinking when we had our breakup, I remember going stepping aside when she when we took a moment and separated before we went outside and we came back together. But I remember thinking after that night, like, wow, she was so cold, like she didn't even try, she didn't feel, she didn't she didn't care at all, Like she just seemingly was like ready to dip, Like she came in, set her piece and then bounced. And that was the way that I remembered it. And as I watched the show back, it was the farthest thing from that. She was, you know, crushed, she was crying, she was struggling. Certainly some of the stuff was off camera that I didn't see, but even when she was speaking to me watching it back, I realized, like, oh my gosh, she actually really was bothered by this and it was hurt and was trying to make sense of it, and it just went. It just went to show me that I had become I got so deep in that environment that I couldn't even see the emotions from her face because I was so shocked that she was shocked at what I had told her that I was just I couldn't see her side of it, and I and so much so that I couldn't even I remembered her having different emotions than what she did, and it was a shock, But it was something that I really had realized that I'm like, when you allow motion to creep in instead of a rationale and are allowing that to be the basis of your decisions, that can cause you to even see people in a different light as far as how they're expressing themselves. And that was a big life lesson for me to realize that I need to make sure in those moments wherever I do get emotional, then I do step away take time, because if I can't even read someone at that point and there are true emotions, then I'm in no place to be able to have a productive conversation. Well said I clean, And this is something that I wish everyone could recognize and appreciate about you is I mean, listen, we've all made mistakes. No one in your position has done it the right way. It's it's really just learned as you go, and for as much criticism as you've received, you've also been I would say, one of the most self aware bachelors that we've had. That you know where you make your mistakes, you know where you would have done things differently, and you fall on your sword, and you recognize that and hold yourself accountable, which I really appreciate. I feel like it's very tough, especially for someone like me who's ry subburn, that's very tough to do all the time. And so I do appreciate that from you, is you call yourself out, you hold yourself accountable, and I think that's so important. Yeah. I think what people see why is because it's specially because my parents. I mean they're incredible parents, but you people saw it my dad's nobs. That's that's the way he raised me. And so, uh, you know, take accountability when you need to, and just accept the fact that you're not perfect. That's something that is again my dad always instilled me was, uh, you know, no, don't make these excuses just when you when you screw up, learn from it. And uh again, this blunt accountability, I think I should show people why I can just sit here and say you know what, Yeah, I can take this responsibility because that's all growing up, my dad was like, no, no time for excuses, like, you own it. You're a man, be a man. So I have nothing to think with my parents for that. They certainly did an incredible job raising me and my two boss best they could. Yeah. Yeah, I think accountability is definitely a lot harder than people give credit for. And I know that your mom specifically was having a lot of difficulty hearing all the credit ism that was thrown your way, and I know that never gets any easier. But your parents are about get of definitely met a lot a lot. I will say that they should. I mean, I just it's again, it's like, that's my dad's hilarious, his little catchphrases or whatever you want to call him. I I just it just cracks me up because he'd always say things like that growing up Jamie and Christmas. He'd say all these different things, and I remember, like from my childhood, and uh, but yeah, I mean that's they're real. My parents are real. They're not there's no nothing scripted about either of them, and they both um, you know, I saw when they showed up. I realized I could just see it in their face. I was like, Okay, well, this perspective that you couldn't see, Uh, it's pretty clear to people that you love and trust can't see your side of it, so you should probably reevaluate how you've you know, going forward at this point. And uh, yeah, they deserve all the love because listen, they've had a hard enough time raising three three boys all my worst nightmare, three boys. I'm paying for a lot of people in that household. Okay, speaking of criticism, and I still want to have again so many questions for the both of you that we'll still get into, but I need to ask this because and this is something that when we're doing our recap we touch on, is these last two episodes, if I'm gonna be honest, were difficult to watch. And again, like I understand really kind of everyone's mindset and every moment because I've lived through it all. So I try to be empathetic and you know, see all sides of things. But one thing that I think hurt just as a woman, and if I was watching, you know, if if these were my girlfriends on TV, if these were some of my best friends, it would be really tough and hurt a bit. Was was the last day, Oh, I don't even know if it was last day, the last moment that you had with And I don't want to bring up the other girls, I'm sorry, Susie, But with Gabby and Rachel when you ended things with those two, what what brought you to that moment to bring up with them both at the same point, Because for me personally, I would have wanted to just do it I think separately, because if you did have strong feelings and you were falling in love with both of them, I think they deserved the respect to have separate conversations and the time dedicated to them, being able to ask questions and like really have that closure so again and in time is very strange in the world of Batchelor. I get that too. But what was going through your mindset into do it in the way that it all went down? Yeah, again, I think as I've seen it now, it's it is something that I probably should have went about it the other the other way. But after the first time that I went, you know, the rose ceremony from hell or whatever you want to call it, when I when I first broke that news to them about being or with Susie, and when all occurred with her, I saw how that two of them reacted or they were, you know, they were distraught. But then towards the end, as where I was saying out the final two rowses, they were holding each other, consoling each other, and they seemed to be to get Like, really them being together in that moment seemed to be beneficial and kind of helped, uh, you know, take some of the blow out of all of the you know, the severity of that or the how tough it was. It kind of seemed like they were able to lean on each other. And so after that point, when I realized I was going to break up with the two of them and I needed to do that in order to fully pursue Susie, I went back to that moment in my head and I thought, well, they in that moment the last time you did this, they were there for each other. They were hugging each other, they were just really like reassuring each other that they were both there and it together and it was tough, and I kind of thought that is what my hope was, was that they could console each other and then once they wanted to talk to me individually, we could step aside and talk privately. It was just my thought. Again, I didn't I didn't know. I didn't really know which way it was the best way because I never dated multiple women at one time, nor will ever do that again. But I was like, Okay, it seems like those two could maybe be there for each other in that moment, And that was what my thought was was this could be helpful, I guess, since it's going to be a lot to tell the both of them, hopefully they can be there at the end and at least soften the blow a little bit if they're together. And I mean, again, that was my thought, but it doesn't mean it was right. I'm actually so glad you asked that, Becca, because I had the same question. It just didn't make any sense to me at the time. I mean, I figured there was like you had reasoning for making the decision, but I could not figure it out or understand why you had made it. So it is interesting to hear what your thought process was making that decision. Would you make the same decision again looking back or now? No? I mean I would surely certainly pull them aside and do it individually. Yeah, I mean I would have done it differently, But I just that was my thought process was they could be there for each other and it would make it a little bit easier to process and handle. And that was my thought. But again that was I mean that it was right. Yeah, you live and you'll learn again everything is twenty twenty in hindsight. One thing actually that this wasn't even all my thought. Intel. We started talking about this, but we've seen leads in the past tell multiple women they love them, you know, I think it started with Ben Higgins. We saw on our season Badger he did it, Pilot Pete did it. If I'm blanket on anyone else, but I mean, it's it seems like now it's kind of a consistent thing. Do you wish looking back that you never expressed that you were falling in love or loved anyone Intel the very end if it was one woman standing. Yeah, you know, the what if game is so challenging because I just I don't even know. Again with all of this, it's like, how what's the right way to handle being in love with three people? Like do you wait till the very end and withhold those emotions? I mean in a way, you know, I had fallen in some capacity for Serene as well, and I never told her, and I don't know. Again, It's like, was it better off for her to be able to recover, not like knowing that I never even told her that. It never gave her that and so she didn't know until she probably watched it back. But I just I don't know. Again, It's like I could have waited till the end. But my fear was, is that the way when Serene taught me a lesson when she said, is you know, it's the reason why you're sending me home because of how I because of the feelings that I expressed and of being falling in love with you, and that moment it really felt like she was invalidated. And because of that, I thought, well, if these other women don't know where I'm at, they're going to maybe start feeling invalidated, and wonder, Okay, I need to start putting my walls back up because we're nearing the end of this all and I have no idea where he's at, and there's certainly no way I can accept an engagement. I mean, I knew there's no way that I could just get to the final day and be like, hey, I get down on a knee and be like, well, you haven't heard this yet, but I love you and I want to get engage with you. Hey, that's what I did. Well okay, and it were word for me for a little bit, but well, okay. So I just thought it was better to like make sure that there were no surprises if when if I were to get down on a knee and have someone be like, you're getting out on knee, like I didn't even know you love me? And so uh and as I saw like when I told you know, Susie, she was shocked. She's like, I didn't know that's how you felt, and it was It was a lot, and I just felt that again I should tell these women as soon as possible because I realistically I'm going to get engaged to one of these women at the end of it. I like that I cannot be telling them the day of that just that just seems like a lot to process. And I'm sure they will have if I didn't tell them and tell that point, they would have put the walls up. It is the way that I saw it. So I saw another way around it other than to tell them all watching you a woman tall talk to Serene and say exactly what you kind of expanded upon about how she taught you a lesson. I did watch that and kind of go like I was like, I think I know where Clayton's head is going to go, and I think he's gonna just completely open up. And I remember thinking he's got three women, and one of those women is like, at least one of these women is probably gonna have a tough time with that. And then right into the ex episode we see it a hole, but I mean it really is, and like you two can both understand what I'm saying, Like it is such a weird world and what is normal outside of it is not normal inside of it. What is normal inside of it is not normal outside of it. So like trying to navigate it, it's it is difficult. So like I give you both credit for like owning up, you know, Clayton, owning up to your mistakes, and both being able to support one another and be here today. Yeah, yeah, no, I really appreciate that, and I just hope that most people do give us grace because again, I think people see these things and I made mistakes, but there's times where I've read different I've heard different opinions. People say, it's common sense, why would you do this? I was like, what is common about dating thirty women? Like? Nothing common about that. So I was like a lot of people that are you know, it's like the keyboard warriors that talk about how I would have done this. It's like, all right, you would have done that one, right, but what else would you have done? Everything else perfectly? Opiniat That's where I think people I might just give everybody grace, not just me is the bachelor, but give all previous bachelor's grace. I even was on the outside, not really haven't watched a ton of the show prior, but I had heard the outcome of some of these pre other bachelors and I was like, Oh, that dude, what was he thinking? Like that guy needs to you know, he needs to grow up. But then I've now, since I've been on this side of it, I was like, Oh, it's really, really, really challenging to be in this position, and I think it requires a tremendous amount of grace. And the people that are the most understanding are the ones that also went through the same thing. Every bachelor bachelord I've talked to is so understanding and we're all in this same boat where were like, we know how strong we are mentally because it takes so much to be able to navigate through this and no way, no, there's no way you can do it perfectly. Some have done it better than I was. Absolutely, but but it's a lot. Yeah, and I think at the end of the day, it is I would say for every batch or not just me and bats are like, get them grace because it is so hard to date multiple people. There's the reason why people don't do that. No, it's it's so funny. And I'm sure you've gotten this is people are like, oh, you were able to date thirty women, that's so fun Like I wish I could do that. And realistically, when people say that, I cringe because I'm like, no, Like, it's not as glamorous and fun as it seems. We saw with your group of women, especially at the beginning, with all the drama go going down. It's it's very difficult. It's very taxing emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, all the things. It's it's a lot. Luckily, I will say this, UM and YouTube are in such a good spot. I want you to be able to savor this moment and like, soak in this your sport for one another, because it will be tough outside of all this for a little bit. But the silver lining is that as your nation has a very short attention span and there's always a new season coming, there's always a different contestant doing something to take the focus off. So it might be tough for a while, but eventually, as people start to see you two now in the real world and showing off your relationship and your love and support for one another, people will rally behind you and begin to love you and support you in such new different ways. That'll be very special, and I think I'm hoping that'll come for you as a team and for the other women too on your season as well. Um, I want to jump all over the place right now because Susie, I have to ask you this because it keeps crossing my mind. Okay, So taking it back to Iceland, Okayum, that last week was weird. Keep reality like we've never left literally yeah, yeah, so much has happened. But okay, and you've seen the show you kind of know how it works. So basically, you two break up before Phantasy Suites. Then Jesse comes into your room and says, hey, you should talk to Clayton. You go, and I'm pretty sure you were very shocked to see Clayton's family there, had that quick conversation. But then the last day, because you I'm sure you met with our favorite person, Carrie Fetman, he styled you on that last day, I'm assuming you knew Clayton was going to propose correct, So what did you think you were going? Like? I was like, what's where did this ring come from? I mean, don't get me wrong, it was stunning, like someone hold on to that, but I was shocked and went at the right, Well, what was going through your mind that last day as you're getting your gown on your you have the beautiful jewelry, You're doing your makeup, your hair, Like, what did you think you were walking into? Honestly, I feel so naive to say this, because, yeah, I have seen this show. I've been watching for like three years now, and I did not know I was walking into even a rose ceremony. Like I know that sounds crazy. I didn't know that there was going to be a final rose at that point. Like I was just so I think I was in just this crazy state of mind at that point where I was like just focusing on like I need Clayton to know that I care about him. I need him to know how much he means to me, and that this, you know, isn't easy for me. I need him to be able to say. I was like thinking about the relationship aspect that, Yeah, I felt it feels silly now because I got to where actually that was the gown that I picked out if I were going to get engaged, and earlier in the week, I remember putting that gown on and having this year and night and I said, I was like, I feel like I'm not going to get the chance to wear this gown, and like, I think this is I felt like it was coming to an end, and it was like this moment of like just deep sadness for me where I was like, I'm just so afraid that I'm not going to be the one at the end of this. But I had picked that gown out for that moment, thinking that it was like going to be the gown that I potentially got engaged in, and the next thing I know, Jesse's at my door. I thought it was going to be Clayton. When I heard a knock and we were just going to talk and like maybe, you know, just end on a better note or something like I didn't know what to expect, and then all of a sudden, Yeah, I meeting Clayton's parents. They Yeah, they asked me to come meet Clayton, and I was happy to come in and say hi to them and stuff, obviously, like I knew how much they meant to him, and I was like, oh, it's not not the best way to meet somebody's parents, And yeah, I just I thought I knew I was walking into something a conversation, a really glam conversation, But until I walked in and saw the roads in and there, I was like, oh my gosh, this is the last roast ceremony. I just it sound so silly to say, because I understand that the show, But if I didn't know what I was walking into, it really doesn't sound silly at all, to be honest, Like, I think my mindset would be identical to yours, because at that point they had lost any form of typical structure, and like, especially with you, like you had left, but you were obviously still there, Like I had to go through that as well. And then you chatted and you had like a meat the family, but you didn't so like I think my thought process would have been like, oh, what is going on? I didn't know what I was walking into this, But I do want to ask you. So I am curious to know because you mentioned saying going into your fantasy suite date with Clayton, there was a sense of like I don't feel like I'm gonna get to wear this dress, and I am just curious to know further insight into like your mindset going into that date, because I did say in the last podcast, and please correct me if I'm totally off base here. Also, I do want to call myself out. I did say team Clayton in the last episode and Studio, I want to apologize to you for saying that, because I don't want to think I'm in any way saying I'm invalidating your feelings. Team we love you both, Team Team Susie and Clayton. Yeah, but can you can you give play? Can you just give more insight because I'm really curious into your mindset going into the evening portion of your date and like sitting down, like hearing Clayton tell you he's in love with you, like, just can you walk me through everything that was going through your mind in that first kind of half before things took a dark turn. Yeah, I think. I mean, I'll try to be as quick as I can with it because it's probably so much. But going into Fantasy suitetsu, Yeah, that week, I was like, I just can't fathom. I never ever imagine that he would be in love with all three of us. That was not something that ever crossed my mind. And as you guys know it from being on the show, you talk through every scenario that week. Yeah, you sit down in your interviews and you you talk through every possible scenario for a long time. So I in my mind thought, I was like, Okay, I've hit every scenario. I've talked this, I've expressed you know what I feel going into this, And yeah, I felt like going into that night, I was like, Okay, either Clayton is in love with me and he feels the way that I feel and we're about to walk out engaged, or he's found it with somebody else. And I really had this mindset of like he is told like he really is in a position where he can't explore these relationships. However, he wants. But if he doesn't know that it's me, I am no longer. I don't want to move forward, like I want somebody who is going to know and maybe and genuinely like that might be too much to ask for that scenario. I really think it depends on the people. You know, Clayton had. We've talked about this. Gabby and Rachel are freaking awesome, like, and He've said it, like, how do you not fall in love with them? I fell in love with them, Like I love both of them as people. They're incredible people. So I understand now. It's like he had three amazing women at the end of it, and yeah, like he had every right to explore and I even knew that going in. I was like, yeah, like this is a very real possibility. But if he doesn't know, if it's that it's me, at this point, like I can't endure this any longer, Like I need to take a step away for myself. And yeah, now looking back, it's like, okay, Like it is a lot to expect the lead to know at that final three, but that was my hope and that was my expectation, and going into that night, it's like, yeah, I just I thought it was going to go one of two ways. It was either going to be You're it or maybe not You're it, But no, like, you know, I'm I'm seeing this through and I want to I want to pursue you. You're the person that I'm falling in love with or I'm in love with and and then I would have continued forward, or I thought it was going to be you know, I think I've found what I'm looking for with somebody else here. And I was like, really at peace with either one of those. Would you really wanted like one or the other, Like you wanted it to be like all in on you or like, sorry, you're not the one. That middle ground is like obviously the hardest part. It's so hard, and I and I really felt like yeah, And in Clayton's even said he's like, that's not the most like endearing thing to hear, because yeah, you want somebody that's like I'm going to fight through this with you and I'm gonna stick this out for you. And I do like, look at that, and I'm like, yeah, I can see how that's uneasy for somebody who's in his position, who's got three amazing women at the end. And so yeah, when the conversation when he said he loved me, at first, I was like whoa, Like that was not what I was expecting to hear right now, Like that just seemed I was like shocked by that, especially coming from my hometown day where I'd spoken to my mom and she was like yeah. I asked him if he loved you, and he said that he's just yeah, not there and I was like, okay, like I mean maybe this is it, Like maybe this is I'm just not moving forward, and yeah, I feel like to an extent, I was there for a long time. I was the first hometown, the last fantasy, see, so I had a lot of time to think through everything and get in your head, get in my own head. So when the conversation became that he was in love with all three people, I was just like, yeah, just totally shocked. And I couldn't have prepared myself for that scenario at all. I never thought that scenario. Do you think it was also so much of a shock because you three women are incredible. I will say, like I would some of the top three we've seen on any season, but you're all so so different. So was that kind of hard to wrap your mind around because if Clayton's telling you he loves you, but then he also told these other two women he loves them too, You're like, well, what does he want? Because we're all so different? So what is he looking for? Is that work? A lot of the confusion and shock was too. I guess I hadn't really thought of that way specifically, but now looking at it, yeah, I think, I guess. I don't let me put that in your brain then, And I actually will say going into that week, I know, like of the girls and I had a lot of different conversations than our little sweet and Iceland, and one of the conversations that we that we had, yeah, I think I said. I was like, we obviously all have strong connections. There's no doubt in my mind we all have a strong connection. And I think at this point it's kind of about compatibility, because you know, you go into fantasy suits and you can ask like are you willing to move? Are you like I need to be by my family, or like, you know, my job is here and I have to I have to have support for this. And you can ask all of those questions uninterrupted and get all the answers. So I think at that point I was like, this is not necessarily about like there's no one who doesn't have a connection, but maybe it's about compatibility, And so I did. Yeah, I looked at all three of us, and I'm like, yeah, we are very different. We all have very different expectations of where are what our lives are going to look like. So I considered that for sure. I have two like quick specific follow up questions for Susie. So my first question is do you feel like when you sat down at the table, did you feel like you'd obviously run through every scenario. Do you feel like the most likely scenario was he was going to say you're the one or you're not the one, because I mean, I think the doubt creeps in a lot during that week. And then my second question was, I don't even know if this is something like a thought you've entertained, but like if Clayton had sat there and been like, I don't know who it's going to be, but like I haven't said I love you to anyone, I haven't been intimate with anyone. What how do you think that might have changed things? Yeah, So the first the first question being what was the first one. So when you sat down, um, what was your like most likely hypothetical outcome? M I think I was hoping that I was hoping for Clayton to to be like, no, I you know, I've protected our relationship or whoever, even Whoever's relationship. It was like, I feel like, at least for me, and everyone's different, like Gabby and Rachel, but we all felt different about fantasy streets. We each had a different opinion on them, and that's like to each of us were allowed to have those feelings. But yeah, I had hoped that I would sit down and it would be like you're crazy and you look like an idiot now, like you've been crying on screen for a whole week, susy. Like in my mind, I was like, I hope I just like look like an emotional wreck for no reason this whole week. Like I was hoping for that to be like my experience. But I think I did have that fear creep in and I was just kind of like, I feel like he's found this with somebody else, Like I just feel like it's not me. I just I convinced myself that it wasn't me, and I yeah, I think that's how I thought it was going to go. But my hope was that it would be the other way. And oh yeah, if he had said, yeah, if he had said, you know, I haven't told anybody that I love that, I haven't taken those relationships the next level. I'm just like, you know, moving forward, trying to figure out what's best. I would have continued because I think that's where those conversations really come into play, of like the deal breakers that you can you can talk about, and the fantasy suitets that are off camera, like anything that might be like a major red flag that you don't necessarily want to say on camera, but you need to have a conversation with that person about. So yeah, I would have absolutely moved forward because I think at that point it's I think it'd be more of like, Okay, that's where the compatibility comes in, right, Okay, Well, speaking of moving forward, I want to know what's in store for the two of you, Clayton. I know you mentioned that you two are moving in together, but do you know where Wayne, anything that you can share with us. We're moving out of Iceland. Guys, we got to that point of the internet. You made it. We never need to go back to Iceland, you know. Um, yeah, no, I think for me going into this whole experience, I stepped away from my job and sold my condo and just uprooted myself so that I could really make this is have the best chance a like having a lasting relationship from this whole experience. And so with that, uh yeah, we're moving into Virginia right away, right wowation yas say Virginia's Lovers, Suzie. We went to Virginia in my season and I had so many shirts and like boozies that said Virginia is for lovers that I'm going to ship them all to the two of you. Wait, is that a real thing, Susie? Didn't just make that up right now? That's the it's their motto, it's the way. Yeah, Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I didn't do that. So yeah, so we're so we're doing that. And then just because again to think, it makes most sense to if you really find out if relationship work once you move in with somebody, and uh so we just be like, hey, let's do this, let's let's let's find out. And so we're doing that and then we'll uh some exciting things coming up. I'll move straight there and then we'll go back to Scottsdale to grab all of my stuff out of my apartment with my brother, and then we're gonna do a road trip across the country. Probably a tag trip will hit. We still haven't picked out final locations, but we just want to be able to go across to a road trip. They have that experience together and start building these new memories that loves. And you know what I will say is it's gonna get maybe a little harder right after the finale, and then I promise you it gets easier. I mean maybe we'll send like Thomas Streaking thrill a or something to like take like the attention off you guys for a minute. But after going through such hardship on the show and being tested while filming, after a while it's airing, I it's very hard to come by a challenge that is as difficult as this one. So if you can make it through like it is truly a test to your relationship. Like I have said time and time again, Joe and I have never experienced still anything as hard as going through Paradise. And if you can get through this, like I don't want to say even get through anything, but like, your chances are pretty good, but it will make you stronger if it hasn't already. Yes, So my question is do you guys, have you talked about or created any sort of strategies or plans on how you plan to handle I mean, you'll will get love, but like any criticism coming your way kind of moving forward. We haven't really set a plan or discussed like, oh, how are we going to navigate this specifically? I've kind of we both have kind of taken a hiatus this week because I know right now, which is great, and I'm so grateful for all the support, Like so many people are commenting and sending a messa of support, but I know that those people are going to be like shook in a couple of days when we walk out together. So I yeah, it's I'm expecting a turn of the tide for myself, but I just yeah, I mean, I feel like even just taking a step away from my phone this week has been really good for me, just to because I don't want to see that either, because a lot of people are supporting me, but it's bringing Clayton down, and it's like you can support both of us and acknowledge that we can both acknowledge that we made mistakes, we can both acknowledge that we could have done better, and we have had the conversations that we need to have. So I mean, I'll probably try to utilize my social media to explain that in a sense of like, if you support me, then support us, because it's it's only going to make things harder for us individually and together if you don't. Yeah, Yeah, I think the biggest thing we've just we're both very rational. She's more rational than I ever thought she would be. And it's great, but we have, like we have these tough conversations. We've had them all throughout the season as we've watched it back, and real relationship, you know, kind of conversations that not all of them are are pretty. But what's great about it is the two of us can talk through these things and we have these three four our conversations sometimes saying like what is best for us? And we've had multiple conversations like that, and we always appro We're always a little stronger afterwards. All our connection becomes that much stronger because we can attack anything head on. I mean, nothing is awful limits as far as the second one of us sees the other one struggling, as long as we're ready to talk about it's like, hey, let's sit down and talk. And we've had so many of those conversations. And so I do agree streng like with what you said, and I've even echo the cinement to her just I said, you know, I think if not to say that everything from here on it'll be easy, but everything that we've went through beyond this point should it should not be nearly as challenging. Now there will be there will be, yes, I mean, immediate blowback, and I think to that at the end of the day, you just have to understand that where's it coming from, And you realize it's coming from people that don't know you, that don't know each other, that are probably projecting their own anger and insecurities based off of what they don't like about their own life, and so you just realize it's unnecessary. I mean, I think at the end of the day, people should see that, yes, this is a very wild way to find love, but I think it goes to show like if you fight for what you want and you follow your heart no matter what you face, all the adversity, you can make it through. And if two people love each other that much, they can make it through anything. And I think that's what the story is about, you know. And there certainly we wish we would have both done things better, but at the end of the day, that's what it is. And if people can't see that as love and they still want to be angry about it and upset, they have their rights to feel that way, but it shouldn't impact us mentally, and I don't think it will because I think now we're a team, we're together, and there is no more separation and talking about one side versus the other. So either if people are all in, that's right, they can support us, and if they're not all in, they can say whatever they want, but their words really don't mean much to us anymore. Yeah, it's all the haters out there. There's an ad age, old adage that says, buck them, you know in your relationship. Well O, wait, what do you think I was gonna saying? I don't know, but it wasn't that. Well, it sounds like you both have such a good head on your shoulders moving forward. I mean, if there's any advice that I can give you, and it sounds like you've already done this. This week is to just go off the grid for a big go off of social media and just there's gonna be so much piling in that I was going to be there whatever, just take you know, put the phones, the computers, whatever aside, and just focus on YouTube. I think a road trip honestly will be great, a great little distraction for the both of you in a really good way to continue to get to know each other. What is one thing though, because pretty soon you're going to be finally able to walk down the street in front of other people. You're gonna be able to hold hands, You're gonna be able to go to Chipotle, And it's feeling like it really is such a good feeling. What are you most looking forward to? Like, what's the first thing you two want to do together? Well? I love going out the beach. I love She's like, I'm gonna take you out to dinner. Yeah, because we're gonna be in Virginia pretty soon after everything. So there's a few spots at the ocean front where I'm like, oh, we can go here, we can have like a rooftop view and see the see the boardwalk, and I work part time at a restaurant that's like it's kind of like a it's like a dive bar, but it's like massive and so cool, and it's like, oh it's waterfront. It's like it's just like super my vibe. And I'm like, oh, I can't wait to break you there, Like it sounds so funny, but I'm I'm excited to show him where I actually lived now because he saw my hometown, but he didn't get to come to Virginia Beach. So I'm excited to show him all the all the hot spots. Oh, you guys are gonna have so much fun. That's truly the best feeling is to be able to sit down across from one another order a glass of wine, like with people around you. I will say, though, try to get like a private area if you can, because you will get bombarded at first. So if you want to really be able to enjoy that first set out together, it would get like a separate room, a separate table in the back something. Yeah, well, dean to make some of fuens. Yeah you can pull some strength. Yeah, it works works there. So it's excited. We're excited to do it all Yeah, we're excited to just do the little things. I think that's everything that we can just do in public, walk outside, walk down a boardwalk. I found out and during these trips that I might be lack to us a small right now, So oh no, there's pills for that too. Yeah. But just do all the fun stuff, the little things together, just hike, bike, all these things that we love to do. Um, and now we get to do them and we don't have to hide anymore. So that's that's pretty sweet. Ah well, congratulations you two. It's clazy baby. Um okay, we are going to get into a game with you two, but really quick, we have to ask you this because obviously we do it on every episode overall, Now that the season is done and you've lived at airing and all of the craziness, what overall has been both of your roses and your thorns? Oh yeah, and um and my thorn is Thorne's clearly the way that I handle that night by far. All right, Well we'll leave it at that. I mean, bust roses right there sitting in front of us. Um. Okay, so we're gonna get into the happy couple game. Now that the world knows you two are together, we can finally celebrate. So we're gonna play this game. It's basically rapid fire, and um, you either have to answer Susie or Clayton with whatever we ask you. So to start, Who is the better cook We've done We've done couples cooking, and I kind of feel like I have a slight edge. Yeah, yeah, okay, all right? Who is more romantic? She is far? Yeah? I need help on that one. Somebody him. No, Susie's like, literally, anyone anyone helped this man. He's like, I need the show dates back. Who is more suffering? One two three, Susie? All right? Who is the messy? One? One two three? Sus she knew she knew the water boles all over the house. I'm the same way, Susie. I am the same That's a girl thing. I don't know why. Like one of my best friends has like twelve glasses scattered amongst her home. Okay, guys, who's the funny one? One two three, I'll say Suzy Suzy. I love how she poily points to herself. Who spends more money? One two three? It's probably because yeah, she doesn't spend any money. She's so frugal. Yeah, but I'm a wow woman. I just spend him on trips, So I just do it, like, yeah, I just prioritize the money. You're targets. I get it, I get it. Okay, Who is the planner? One two three? Again, I think we both aren't really we just well you probably have to really have too. Yeah, I think we're just spontaneous, both of us. All right? Who is more competitive? One two three? Yeah, the athlete and you hathlete? Yeah? Who takes up more of the bed? One two three? Really? I know you're only half his size. It's another girl thing. She spreads out, pulls all the covers. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. It's her domain. I'm a cover I'm a cover tea. Why can't I speak a covered beef too? Yeah? All right? Who takes longer to get ready? One two three, Susie? But that's because it takes? Yeah, Like I feel like neither one of you are high maintenance, which I really appreciate. All right, last one? Who is always right? One two three Susie? He thinks he's always right? Yess are gonna end on that one? Get us were talking about? That's gonna be the first thing we talk about. One, I'm gonna give you some advice. The woman is always right, that's why he's always right. Or in my case, I let Joe think he's always right. But like I know the truth, you know that within us here. Oh man, Well, congratulations. I know it was a wild ride, crazy time getting here, but we really are excited for you to see where I don't even want to say this journey, just to see where now your life takes you. I mean, you've gotten through hopefully the worst, hardest part and now you can just celebrate your time together in your normal settings, normal world. So we're so thrilled for you both. We're always here. If you have any questions, d any advice, event please let us know. But thank you both for joining us. Best of luck. All the advice you want is like, we can answer any questions to the best robability. But my best advice would just be to lean on each other, communicate with each other, just talk things as much as possible. And we are really rooting for you guys and wishing you the best. We love seeing people find love on this show, and we are really happy to see you guys together today. Yeah, but you know as much as I love you, I'm glad your season's done, buddy. I'm sure everybody is very much glad it's time. So I'm happy it's over as well. Trust me, I'm right there with theybody else. Now, that was the fun part, so go enjoy it. I know you have a lot to do today, but go spoke in these moments. Go have fun. Get out of here, you too, A right? All right? Wow, we covered a lot with them, but I feel like I still could have had them on forever, asking every little thing about every moment. I could have happily broken down from episode one with them. I think we really controlled ourselves by just sticking to Iceland. But truly, I had so many questions that hopefully you know the well, I guess we'll never get the answers. No, I don't know why I'm saying. Maybe they'll come out it's game over. Seasons done, well, Well, we'll have a wine night with the two of them and get all the good juicy deets. There we going, But there we go. You know, after everything, it was a lot. It was a very heavy end to this season. I'm glad to see them, happy, to see them smiling, you know, at the end of the day, people can have their opinion on how the lead handled things or should have handled something, but you know, he's trying to find love and what fits for him best, and I feel like he's found that with Susie. So I'm very excited to see them and you know, kind of put put all of this behind them and move on, because, like we just said, the best for the best is yet to come for them. So I can't wait. Speaking of like sad En Dean's Serena, I have had such a blast recapping this entire season with you. You have been such a gem to be doing the podcast with. I'm so sad this is going to be our last episode together. I'm so sad too. We're gonna have to have our weekly chats anyway, because I'm gonna miss saying your face every week on the podcast. But I want to thank you so much for having me this season. I really had such a blast, and I want to thank all the Happy Hour listeners for all your words of encouragement and accept me onto the podcast. Hopefully I will be back to visit soon. Yes, well, you you're welcome back anytime. Maybe we'll even have you in weekly for the fashion recaps when the next season picks up. Because you are a professional at that we all know I am not, so please come join us anytime. We absolutely loved having you. It was such a blast. I mean, I'm really good to miss you. So thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm a huge thank you to Susie and Clayton for joining us. I know it's going to be they have a lot of press to go through right now and it's going to be a lot for them, so I appreciate them taking time out of their day. But the biggest thank you goes out to all of our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners. Thank you for tuning in each and every week and sharing your thoughts on this wild journey of a season. I'm just happy that you know. We have a little break. We can focus on like some life stuff for a while. But no, everyone have a glass of wine because it's time to celebrate absolutely and make sure with that glass of wine you hit us up on social. You can follow us at at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and from there you will find everything that you need to know to find. Allow us on Twitter and TikTok and batch. Sir. Happy Hour is available on Apple podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen, and you can listen ad free by subscribing to Wondering Plus, an Apple podcast, or the Wondering app. And for the last time, thank you Vecca, and thank you to all of our Happy Hour listeners. We will talk to you soon.