#9 Milt

I'm just about to go to work. If this is 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:11.799 an emergency. Is it's a third time you've called them? 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.360 Everything okay with the baby? Yes, yes, beautiful baby. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.720 Thank you. You know I take a lot of pride 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:23.240 in that. God, he's nine months old now. But you know, okay, 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.560 I will respectfully let you go because I don't want to. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.800 There's nothing respectful about you, Johnny, because I told you 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.480 six months ago I don't want to be on your 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:35.120 show anymore. I picked up the phone. It was about 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:35.879 something else. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.120 But it's you had said to me that you didn't 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.920 want to be in the introduction to the episodes, right. 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:43.320 What if I were to tell you that this isn't 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.120 an episode, it's a pre episode. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.879 Oh god, it's a difference. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.360 Well, because it's not going to be a canonical episode. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.960 It's an anticipation of the second season, and there isn't 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.600 going to be another episode coming out for an entire month, 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.240 so it's very pre on. 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.960 I don't want to be on the show period. You're 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:05.560 not listening as usual. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:16.240 The floor is yours. I'm listening, yeah. From Gimblet Media. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:22.280 I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight, today's pre season episode. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:38.600 Milt, you have one new voice message, a. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.680 Voice message from my friend Gregor something about my podcast 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.600 destroying lives. Must be a bad connection, I think, because 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:52.080 my podcast saves lives. I phone back to remind Gregor 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.400 how last season my show repaired his friendship with noted 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.080 vegan and bald headed techno musician Moby in the. 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.040 Sense that you forced me into with like probably one 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.480 of the top three most awkward afternoons of my life. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.160 So it was a little It was a little awkward 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:07.559 in the room, but in the end. 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.560 It wasn't a little awkward. It was incredibly awkward. You're 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.959 like a nightmare therapist who causes fights. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.520 Okay, yes, you felt that way in the moment. I 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.720 explain how making things right is often preceded by discomfiture. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.760 But the main thing was that people were relating to 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.680 his journey of healing. In fact, I say the episode 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.760 generated a very lively discussion on the website Reddit. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:30.320 Reddit. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.120 Well, I finally made it to Reddit. Soon I'll be 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:34.000 on four un. 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.919 Thank you when Gregor's done giving me the sasmouthing of 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.720 a lifetime. He explains that in the end, the podcast 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.680 did more harm than good. He tells me that the 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:50.800 episode actually destroyed his father's oldest friendship destroyed. I ask friendship, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.880 I ask. The trouble all started. Gregor explains when his dad, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.920 an eighty five year old man named Milt, sent the 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.200 episode to his friend Sidney. Sidney hated the podcast so 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.960 much that he sent Milt a letter formally ending their 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:18.360 sixty five year friendship, and that was that. According to Gregor, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.920 Sidney is a genius and couldn't believe Milt had the 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.160 audacity to disrespect his intelligence and remaining time on Earth 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:31.120 by recommending such a truly terrible podcast. In the time 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.919 he spent listening to the episode, he could have done 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.440 something brilliant. Sidney is a professor, the author of countless 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:43.480 academic articles, and, according to Gregor, a true literary scholar. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.880 A Joycean scholars and James Joyce. 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.840 As opposed to Joyce de Witt, who played Janet on 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.720 Three's Company Anyway, very. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:53.600 Very intellectual guy. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:53.960 Right. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.840 He does not suffer fools. He's very much inclined to 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.160 dress people down, set them in their place, that kind 0:03:59.160 --> 0:03:59.400 of thing. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.280 I had ample experience with that kind of thing. Case 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.720 in point, Gregor proceeds to tell me in painful and 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.200 gratuitous detail. What Sidney thought of my podcast. 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.720 Certainly the sound of your voice could make. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.880 Among other things, he thought at Jujune middlebrow and nothing 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:17.279 but a load of chit chat. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.280 As with a lot of things, that says. I kind 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:21.120 of agree with him. It is just chitchat. I mean, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.719 the podcast was just us talking to each other as not. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.800 But I mean, you know Socratic dialogues. I mean all 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.920 that was really was two guys talking, right. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.480 Well, I think, yes, that's empirically true. But I mean 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.080 if you're a guy who's gonna be like, hey, Socrates talked, 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.000 I talk I'm Socrates, you know, then I don't think 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.360 I can get any point through to you at all. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.560 Gregor says the letter hit Milled hard. He's lately been 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.479 taking his meals alone in his office and not speaking 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.840 much to anyone. It's hard for me to imagine how 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.120 my show could end the friendship. Sure there were podcasts 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.960 that could. I'm all a bit positive the Ted Radio 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.960 destroyed tons, maybe even a few marriages, but not Heavyweight. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.000 My heavyweight couldn't hurt a fly. And so I want 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.240 to see proof. I insist Gregor send me a copy 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.680 of this breakup letter, which he does, I'm gonna read, 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.839 We're gonna go through the letter. Okay, we're gonna parse 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.640 through the letter, all right, sure, Okay, here we go. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.400 So it starts off where he says, after our exchange, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.200 without so much as a dear milt, the letter launches 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.960 into a list of complaints written in the style of 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.640 an academic monograph, replete with annotation and appendices, and then 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:38.480 in parentheses see poem about friendship references to previous correspondents. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:44.640 So he quotes from an email sent eleven years earlier. Yeah, okay, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.120 so here it is high milt and second references to 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.200 age old intellectual turf wars, not understanding the neurotic elements 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.720 of the battle about the school superintendent. Okay, so this 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.920 is a whole other thing. There are numbered sections which 0:05:55.920 --> 0:06:00.240 contain lettered sub sections bracketing number C. So it goes 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:05.320 back to subsection C bar mitzvah I had invited, And 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:09.120 finally there it is like Gregor said the stuff about 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.000 heavyweight to quote subsection Jay, Jay, you sent me the 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.120 link to a radio program greg was on. I have 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.000 listened to similar programs when I was driving. Very rarely, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.120 if ever, did I stop my reading or writing to 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.599 listen to what I call chitchat programs. Seeing that chitchat 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.360 thing in black and White was especially piquant. But as 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.120 we read through the letter, it becomes apparent that this 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:34.760 friendship has bigger problems than my podcast. According to Sidney, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.320 while he always asks after Milt's family, Milt never asks 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.559 after his. And while Sydney attends Milt's family functions, Milt 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.000 doesn't attend his. And although Sidney takes an interest in 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.679 Milt's work, to quote Sydney, when I dedicated a published 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.080 article to you, I quoted William Carlos Williams, so much depends, 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.400 to which you replied that it reminds you of the 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.960 adult pads depends so much for the dedications the history. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.839 It seems Sidney isn't so much upset about having listened 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.359 to an episode of my podcast as he is about 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.720 having listened to an episode of my podcast starring Milt's son, Gregor, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.239 because yet again, Sidney was being asked to care about 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:17.320 Milt's family in a way that was never reciprocated. Sidney's 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.360 real problem, it seems, is that he's always asked to 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.320 look and listen in on Milt life without being seen 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:31.320 and heard himself. Although the letter reads like a legal deposition, 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.840 by the end, Gregor and I come to see it 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.680 as something else, an outpouring of sixty years worth of 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:47.760 hurt feelings. Their friendship began in nineteen fifty four in 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.960 a rooming house in Iowa, where they both attended college together. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.960 They considered themselves a couple of outcasts who drove to 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.840 poetry readings in Milt's model tea over late night bottles 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.320 of Chivus regal. Sydney would share his theories with Milt 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.720 about Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer, and Milt would share 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:10.400 his attempts at poetry with Sydney. Almost seventy years later, 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.600 Milt is now a published poet, but when he finishes 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.920 a poem, he still sends it to Sydney, whose judgment 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:18.120 means more than anyone's. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.560 It never changed, the roles never changed. He was still 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.560 the guy in his life whose opinion mattered most to him. 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.440 About his writing, he would say, here's the thing I did, 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:31.080 and Sid didn't just write back like nice smiley face, 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:36.120 double exclamation mark. He'd write these kind of like a 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:37.520 very deep, analytical kind. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.640 Of read Sydney remains a kind of big brother to Milt. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.920 This at a time when those older than him that 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.240 he can look up to are dwindling. And now this 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.320 unique friendship was ending. And the straw that broke the 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:55.200 camel's back was my stupid podcast. I mean, well, you see, okay, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.960 I mean, obviously you see the irony in this whole situation. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:04.199 Right after waiting a good long while, it was clear 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.079 that Gregor did not see the irony in this whole situation. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.800 I mean, I have a show that it's raison detra 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.679 is to unite people, and because of my show, to 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.520 men in their late eighties who have been friends for 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.679 the past sixty odd years had a falling out. 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.360 I mean, the end of Sid's letter to my dad 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.000 said go shove off. It wasn't a falling out, it 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.560 was this is the end. I'll never speak to you again. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.120 And as far as you having a radio show that 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.800 brings together, I always thought you're a disputatious character. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.040 I think my track record speaks for itself. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.040 Your track record. You get into, like a tussle with 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.719 a raccoon on the way to the liquor store, You're 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.400 never going to have any success with anything. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.520 No, no to discourage you do you think that, you know, 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.439 maybe I could do something to help? 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.640 Okay, here we go, Here we go. 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.880 Because like helping old men like this is sort of 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:54.440 what I do. 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.760 Every one of your ideas is worse than the previous one, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.600 and you're building the terrible idea of pyramids. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:09:59.960 Well you want to try, you want to try calling 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:00.480 your dad? 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:01.560 Almost to the top. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.000 Let's call them together, and. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:03.680 Now we're at the top. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.120 Like all Jewish men of a certain age, Milt probably 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.680 has an answer to telephone in close to fifty years. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.160 As expected, Gregor's mom picks. 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:20.920 Up my grandchild. Greg's son said when he heard about this, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.000 he said, when a person is older, he needs more friends, 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:25.000 not less. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.240 That's nicely put. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.680 The relationship a person has with a friend is so 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:35.160 intense and deep. A friendship a buddy. 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:41.120 Wow, yeah, okay, here you go over your. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.880 Oh hi, Milton, I have Johnny on the phone here, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:46.680 john How. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:47.360 Are you good? 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:48.200 How are you Milton? 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.840 I'm good. Let me just shut my music. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:57.520 Off here, okay, sure, Milt, shush is down. What sounds 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.200 like a Narlan's Dixieland jamboree marching he is Dan, and 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.440 I ask if there's a way in which perhaps Gregor 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.600 and I could help make peace between himself and his friend. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.280 Are you talking about Sydney? Yeah, I mean she's very brilliant. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.360 You know, he's written at least two three hundred articles. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:21.760 She's a walking encyclopedia about literature. Nobody knows more than 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:26.400 he does. But he's more trouble than he's worth. I 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:31.599 don't think you realize how crazy he is and difficult 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:32.680 to negotiate with. 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.920 I try to explain how there's nothing really that crazy 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.000 about Sydney at all. Really, all he wants is more 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.760 give and take in their friendship. But Milt is too 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:42.839 dejected to hear me. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.000 I think he's broken up with me. I think he 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.880 doesn't want to have anything to do with me now 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:49.800 from the letter. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:56.920 He said, I think it's over. Forget about Sydney. All right. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.520 I'm going to fix this, Dad, don't you worry. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.080 I don't want to fix it for you. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:06.520 I don't want to six sir, all right, you're giving 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:07.280 up to giving up? 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:14.800 Just listening to the Dilama on John Oliver, Yeah, yeah, 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:16.719 it knows about. 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:23.360 It all right. Mom peals of laughter it's Don Oliver talculator. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.119 I can't understand the word. I'll talktilator. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:34.720 Okay, okay, Gregor, Yes, sir, okay. So you heard your father. 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:35.280 That's it. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.800 I thought your mission on Heavyweight was to resolve conflict. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.000 My father's just feeling hurt. I got a massage him 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.760 a little bit, as far as I'm concerned, and of 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.760 act one. 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.880 And what better way to enjoy the end of Act one? 0:12:53.480 --> 0:13:06.760 But with a message from our sponsors, how was I 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.760 going to fix this sixty year long friendship. Sydney's letter 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.959 was an emotional plea that begged for an emotional response. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.840 But according to Gregor, his dad, Milt just isn't that 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.000 kind of touchy feely guy. He's not a card giver, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.280 a bar mitzvahgoer. Milt didn't even bother attending Gregor's graduation, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.320 saying he didn't get all the hooplaw. In fact, the 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.080 only time Gregor catches a glimpse of his dad's emotional 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.800 side is when he's sharing his poetry. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.760 He'd be doing public readings of his poems at you know, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.680 various events that I'd go to. Yeah, and I'd say 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.840 in ten of those in four of them, he'd break 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.559 down crying, and someone, sometimes me, would have to step 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.560 in and read his poem. And then I started to 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.520 realize that he was using poetry as the conduit, or 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.600 as an excuse to open the faucets in his emotional core, 0:13:58.200 --> 0:13:59.760 to be emotionally. 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.120 Expressive, sometimes expressive to a degree that makes Gregor uncomfortable. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.480 He'll send me a poem written about my mother. To me, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.240 you know, it's not exactly erotic poetry. But it's not 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.120 exactly not erotic poetry. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:12.840 What do you mean? Like you me an example? 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.400 You know, it's like I wake to the yawning cavern 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.120 of your body and I'm like, okay, I have to 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:17.560 stop here. 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.520 Milt's written about his wife, his kids, and his grandkids. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.080 It made Gregor wonder had Milt ever written a poem 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.040 for Sydney. We phone Milt back and ask. 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.400 Not that I'm aware of, but you wrote seven thousand poems. 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:36.800 You never wrote a poem about Sydney. 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:43.600 No, but the question must have planted a seed in 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.000 Milt's mind. A few days later, I receive a phone 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.200 call from Gregor. His dad had sat down and written 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:56.960 a poem especially for and dedicated to Sydney. I'm so excited, 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.240 I can't even wait to finish my cream, cheese and 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:04.200 jelly sandwich, which, before conferencing us all back together, him Milt, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:06.880 how are you good? Good? How are you doing? 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:08.240 I'm fine? 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.680 So I hear that you wrote a poem, Gregor was 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.760 saying about Sid. Yes, normally, Milt males his poems to 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.000 Sydney to get his feedback. In recent years, emails them. 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.720 But I ask if with this personal one, he'd be 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.080 up for phoning Sydney and reading it to him directly. 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.920 In this way, Milt would be making himself vulnerable with 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.520 a grand gesture. I was imagining something along the lines 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.480 of that scene and say anything where the shiftless, half 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.760 wit kickboxer holds a boombox over his head, but instead 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.800 of a boombox, it'd be a telephone, and instead of 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:52.800 a young couple, it'd be two very old men. After 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.800 a long pause, Milt. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:59.680 Says, I could do that, But then, after. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.400 An even longer pause, he begins to equivocate. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:10.160 She's extremely critical. And you know he also wrote an 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.320 introduction to one of my books that was pretty pretty 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.560 insulting about I write poetry like I'm going to go 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:17.560 out say something. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.080 Why would you publish in your own book of poetry 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.680 and introduction in which someone is insulting your works? 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:25.600 I don't know. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.600 Once again, Milt was presenting his work at the feet 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.280 of the master, but this time it wasn't just for critique. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.200 It was to make amends and win back his oldest friend. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.160 And that was scarier. Uh, why don't I Why don't 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.600 I connect you guys? Gregor? So we're not going to 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:48.360 speak right. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:50.880 I think we stay out of it. I don't see 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.440 how we could possibly do any good. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:58.160 Yeah, well, because normally, you know, I like to interlock, interlocute. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.480 Right now, you're an inter locke her. 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:01.600 Call him up. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.400 Let's talk. You tell him and if this whole ship 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.880 is going to run right into this iceberg er, what's 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:06.399 going to happen? 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.800 I'm going to get him on the phone. Okay, okay, 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.479 here we go, calling him up. 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:32.560 Hello, Hello, Hello, hello, hello, Yes. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.280 Who is this is Milt Irlic? How are you? 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:36.399 Is this. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:38.680 Milton Irlic? 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:39.840 Milton Amic? 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:40.680 How are you. 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.080 Okay? Great to hear from you on hold on? 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.720 Okay, thank you him, Milt? 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:51.720 What a surprise? 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.200 How are you okay? 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:56.000 Okay? 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.840 Go ahead, Yeah, I'm okay. But the reason I'm calling 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:06.040 you uh Greg Greg's friend Jonathan Goldstein. He wants to 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.400 wants me to read a poem I wrote to you. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.560 He's on the phone right now, I believe Jonathan. Are 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.480 you there yet? 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.240 Yes? Hi, Hi, Either. 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.560 It's a group call. That's interesting. 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:18.880 Yes. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.399 Not only had Milt immediately forgotten our game plan, but 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.240 he'd also yank down the curtain to reveal lurking in 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:31.560 the wings Sydney's least favorite podcast host. But fortunately before 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.840 Sydney could start critiquing my work, Milt begins. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.600 Comment or interrupt anytime you want. The poem is called 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.960 the Iconic Class and I wrote it, and I wrote 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:50.560 it in homage homage to Sydney f okay. Words flow 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:55.199 out of their mouths like tropical birds, shive us regal 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.399 on the rocks, sell thinkers and sellow feelers struggle like 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:05.760 sweating sumo wrestlers with a question, how do I live 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:11.800 the right life? In impassioned all night arguments, delight in 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.359 the tropics of Henry Miller and the naked honesty of 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:23.240 Molly Bloom's soliloquy. Utopianists, rebel outsiders longing for communion, and community, 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:30.400 the en hoping to change the mind numbing deadness of schools, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.360 stamping out a mass of men leading lives of quiet desperation, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.720 where men suits sit with glazed eyes transfixed by screens, 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:45.600 howl for coffee or coke, waiting for long Sunday afternoons, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:51.040 a transformation where killing stops and the dazzling spectrum of 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:56.480 consciousness allows one to become more fully human as slender 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.680 fingers of the sun seep into their chamber. I solemnly 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:05.400 tread home, knowing the struggle to awaken a moribund culture 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:14.160 has only begun. That's that's the poem. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.960 I'm I'm not quite sure. I mean, it's the kind 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:26.439 of poem that has so many references to my life 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:34.800 until now, he thought nobody noticed. If it weren't so long, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:43.680 I'd have it on my tombstone, you know. Uh just uh. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.679 Do you do you feel uh touched hearing hearing this poem? 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:46.840 Oh? 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.119 Of course I do. Uh, of course I feel touched 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:57.720 by it. I mean, uh, it's not simply a poem 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:04.360 that was delivered the vehicle. There's milt irlic. I mean 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:09.560 he brought it to me, and that carries a thousand 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:14.679 years of conversations and walks and talks and things like that. 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:22.000 So hearing Milt's voice delivering this poem, the weight is 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:28.800 a serious weight. It's a major weight, and and that's 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:30.240 terribly important to me. 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.240 Well, thank you for helping to make me a better poet. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:43.959 Yeah, you know, we're we're we're we're at a new phase, 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:45.919 new phase. 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.280 Okay, okay. 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.600 There was no reference to the letter, nor to there 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.720 not speak king. In other words, not a lot of 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.720 chit chat. But by the end of the call things 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.879 felt back to normal, so much so that just as 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.560 we're all about to get off the phone, Sidney says, 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:13.040 as he always. 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.640 Does, say hello to family, Milt say. 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:19.480 Hello, to which Milt says, as he always does, say 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:25.639 he who nothing much of anything, but today Sydney doesn't 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:26.879 seem too bothered by it. 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.040 Bye bye bye bye, say bye bye. 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.480 Okay, bye bye bye bye. 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.200 I asked Milt how he feels the whole thing went, 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.320 and he says better than he expected that sometimes a 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.760 person just has to take one for the team for 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:51.320 the greater good of the friendship. 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:52.359 You know. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:57.119 One of the essential things about friendship. I've wrote several 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.200 I've written several poems about the consentment to sure, there's 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:05.679 aways always one partner in the friendship that values it 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.760 more and wants it to work more. It's like in marriage, 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:14.199 there's always one part of the marriage that loves the 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.200 other person more, and because they love the other person more, 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.080 they can tolerate being loved less. It's the same thing 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:20.680 in friendship. 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.520 Although I don't ask him out right, I get the 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.440 feeling mill to saying that in his friendship with Sydney 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.280 he's that guy, the one who's loving more and trying harder. 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.600 But I'm also sure that Sydney, at that very moment 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:38.960 across town is thinking some version of the same thought. 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.119 And maybe in all friendships, if you ask who's getting 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.080 the right end of the deal, the answer is inevitably 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.639 I am. But if the friendship has a fighting chance 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.840 of lasting more than sixty years, that answer will also 0:23:52.880 --> 0:24:03.679 contain some version of but it's worth it. Before we 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.199 get off the phone, Milt has a question for me. 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.719 The last thing he said regards to who did you hear? Oh? 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:12.080 He said, he said, to give regards to your family. 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:13.760 Oh family, I couldn't hear it. 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:16.480 Yeah you might. You might want to email him to 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.000 just say to give regards to his family or he 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:32.920 might be sensitive. What would this friendship do without me? Okay, okay, 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:40.920 take it easy. Bye bye bye, Hey Gregor you're still there. 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:45.320 Yeah, I'll be the first to admit it. I didn't 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:46.680 think it would go as well as that went. 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:52.160 I have to say, do you do you see any 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:57.720 any parallels in in in your dad and Sid's relationship 0:24:57.840 --> 0:24:59.320 and our relationship. 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:02.120 I mean, I think, Sai, it's a genius and I'm 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:03.080 a genius. I'll take that. 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.439 Let me ask you a question. Did you know that 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:09.520 I recently had a baby? 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:11.000 I think you mentioned that. 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:12.840 Do you know his name? 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:13.159 Oh? 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:14.000 You're deposing me. 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:18.119 You've never listened to an episode of Heavyweight. 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:20.480 I don't like those earbuds in my ears. They hurt 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:21.320 my ears. 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:24.560 Do you think we're gonna end up being friends like 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.000 for the next like sixty years? 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:29.160 It you'd be one hundred and fifteen. Can you imagine 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:30.480 if you were one hundred and fifteen year ord you 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:30.880 like your. 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:51.879 Now that the Fernitures return to its goodwill home, Now 0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:56.720 that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage 0:25:56.800 --> 0:26:00.399 to pos take this moment to decide. 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:20.080 If to feld for Things Accident. Heavyweight is hosted and 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:23.960 produced by me Jonathan Goldstein along with Khalila Holt. The 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:27.919 senior producer is Caitlin Roberts, editing by Alex Bloomberg and 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:32.720 Jorge Just special thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, Wendy Dore, 0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:37.720 Kate Parkinson Morgan, and Jackie Cohen. The show was mixed 0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:41.600 by Matthew Bole with assistants from Kate Bolinsky. Music by 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:45.359 Christine Fellows and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for 0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:48.760 this episode can be found on our website, Gimbletmedia dot 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.280 com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by the Weaker 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:55.639 Than's courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is 0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:59.879 by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.840 email us at Heavyweight at gimbletmedia dot com. Our season 0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:06.040 begins on October twenty six. 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:09.640 Why are we repainted? Wow? 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:23.520 You better get yourself a new pair of headphones, my friend, 0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:25.800 because there's a lot of great stuff coming your way 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:26.480 in season two? 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:27.600 Are threatening me? 0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:29.639 I'm you know, I'm working on some stories and some 0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:30.920 of them take place in Canada. 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:33.280 You're working on stories and take place in Canada. I'm 0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:34.720 not gonna go change my underpants. 0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:37.760 I don't like when you say that. And you know 0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:40.880 my friend Jackie, she's she's coming back. I think she's 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:44.040 just alady. Know your friend Jackie, you've met her several times. 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:45.560 Name doesn't ring a bell