Current State of WWE: Punk & Orton Have Returned, Now What?

This is WWE Superstar Drew McIntyre and you're listening to the WWE podcast, the
show, the one that everybody wants me sixteen so well, yours is myn
We're gonna acknowledge me. Everybody, Welcome to a very special edition of the
current State of AWWE. I've got Anthony DeMarco with me, and we certainly
are not going to have a shortage of things to talk about tonight. As
we are currently recording this as Monday Night Raw is being recorded, we have
seen a couple of things, but that's not going to be the really the
focal point of tonight's show. Tonight, we're gonna be talking about, of
course, Sam Punk's return, Ran Yorton's return, and not just our initial
reaction to that, but really what we can expect going forward. But Anthony,
my god, what a difference just a day can make in the world
of wrestling. It's crazy as I start the show off, what the coughs
are everyone? But I guess that's kind of a microcosm of my excitement to
really get going here. And this is arguably the most excited I've been to
come on here and do the current say of WWE. With you, and
it was funny. I watched the beginning of Monday Night Raw and Michael Cole
said something that I would usually chalk up to hyperbole and just a gross exaggeration,
as we often see WWE do, specifically with their commentary team, but
he said, one of the most anticipated Monday Night raws in history, And
to be honest with you, I don't think that's an understatement. It feels
like this is Monday Night Raw after Mania on steroids, and it feels like
the entire company has gone through like a seismic shift. And it's probably me
overrating what happened at Survivor series, but that was one of the best paper
view not only just because of the returns of Punk and Orton, but just
like the storytelling I found was it events so much and to me, it
felt like the official beginning of like the Triple H era. And I know
we've been in that era for fifteen sixteen months now, but we had Vince
come back in, we had the shift to TKO, but it just feels
like this was like Triple H's stamp on the product, and it feels like
he is really putting this thing into overdrive. That may be a good way
to really frame this whole thing is that this really did feel like Vince wasn't
involved, because I don't know, had Vince still been in charge, if
Punk would have come back, if the stories would have played out the same
way. It's likely no. The answer is no to that, And I
think that we're in a position now that really sets us up perfectly for WrestleMania,
because you were looking at the landscape of this roster and you're saying to
yourself, my god, there are so many different scenarios and matchups that we
either haven't seen or we haven't seen in a while, and you're looking at
this and saying, Wow, what about a heel turn? Could Randy turn
on Cody? Could Tony? Could Cody turn unlikely? You? Could you
have Randy Orton or rather see them Punk face off against Seth Rollins and that
whole debacle that happened on Saturday night. There are so many different scenarios.
And then Randy Orton this past Monday night, as I'm recording this, I
saw him count On identify the bloodline in every single member he's coming after.
So there's your Randy Orton Roman Rains match whenever that happens punk and Roman reigns.
I mean, this has really not only established Triple H firmly in control
of the company and feel like a different product, but it has truly it
does feel like it almost feels like a Monday night raw after WrestleMania, you
know. And I saw some of raw, but not all of it,
and it does feel like a raw after WrestleMania. And it does feel to
me almost like the unofficial beginning of WrestleMania Season two. It feels like the
beginning of just a new season or a new era. And you know,
just the simple fact of like we don't know what's real and what's like fake
anymore. And I hate using that word. I'll just use staged or we
don't know what's a worker shoot anymore. It really feels like Tripleh's slowly but
surely turning back the clock to a vibe that we haven't felt in twenty twenty
five years, maybe fifteen twenty. But it's like back then in the so
back then, the way that I was like kind of accustomed to watching was
that we didn't really know what was real and what was staged. Like we
knew the entire product was staged. We knew that it was mostly just a
show. But even just like a quick example of like Matt Hardy versus Edge,
what was real what was fake? Like when you would see certain angles
like oh my god, that seems like actually legit And it feels like with
Triple H now we were starting to get back into that as opposed to the
last fifteen years of Ins McMahon, where it was always staged and we knew
everything was a show. It felt like a show. But now it's starting
to feel like pro wrestling again. And even though we know that pro wrestling
is ninety five percent of work, sometimes you always have that bit of reality
seep into it. And just obviously it's just one show. It's only two
examples with Drew McIntyre and Seth Rowlins and the entire Internet going crazy, but
it just feels like that old vibe of pro wrestling, and we saw Radyalton
once again say professional wrestling to open up Monday Night Raw. Today, it
just feels like that vibe is slowly but surely coming back. That yes,
that is a vibe. That is something that they have told us that they
want us to feel. Is it's an environment that anything can happen, that
anything at any moment, and for so long it's not been the case.
And now and again, I don't want to take one night and extrapolate it
over you know, a long period of time. But this is a massive
moment in WWE. The ratings from mondaynett raw are going to be probably a
custom or equal to the mondaynt rawter WrestleMania, I would think, given all
of the social media buzz that has been absolutely blowing up all of our feeds
with Orton's return, which you know, as I've said in my raw or
my review for Survivors' series, I kind of feel bad for Orton because he's
been lost in the cmpunk and overshadowed by the cmpunk return. And we can
get into that in a little bit too, But yeah, just as a
kind of high level overview and look down on the product right now, it
feels like a different product. And I'm sure he'll have misssteps along the way
as we head into WrestleMania season, questionable decisions, that's to be expected,
of course, but this is a new it feels like a different, fresh
product. You're right, this feels like a true season premiere, like if
they were going to actually have a season premiere and make it mean something instead
of just some random day at the beginning of September to try to coincide with
all the other TV shows. This truly feels like the actual season premiere of
WWE, and for the first time in a long time, Raw feels like
the premium show after SmackDown dominated for a year or two with the bloodlines a
storyline. Yeah, I was thinking about that today, like SmackDown is in
a bad way right now, and I know the vibe that they're trying to
go with for SmackDown. The theme seems to be like traditional wrestling. You've
seen a lot of like the Lucha wrestlers get extended matches, whether that be
Somethinggon Dragonly obviously Santos Escobar Godn't get a push. Now you kind of have
a bit of like the I guess entertainment bit with like Grayson Wallder, Austin
Theory, and Kevin Owens. The main event scene is still obviously with the
bloodline and l but SmackDown for me and I said this was Logan Paul won
the United States Championship. If they were not gonna have Logan Paul at least
be there on a bi weekly basis. SmackDown was gonna suffer big time because
Roman Reigns is missing and I don't think Logan Paul has been on one single
SmackDown since he won the US title. And like not to go off track
here, because obviously we got to dive in at Randy Orton and see him
punk and all that stuff, but quickly they got to do something on SmackDown.
And that's why, like almost I've been a bit lenient with how much
that they've been loosey goosey with the brand rules because it's only been a one
way street. You're not seeing SmackDown guys coming over in a Monday night row.
It's been exclusively Raw going over to SmackDown just because they don't have the
star power. And look La Knight. Obviously I was gonna say the hottest
wrestler, but now maybe that might not be the case anymore. You have
the bloodline that I guess is treading water and still semi staying relevant. You
have the women who I think are doing a good job. A nice story
with Dad mich Control is developing, but in my opinion, for specifically because
of the lack of championships. SmackDown's at a very tough spot right now.
Yeah, SmackDown is. And again they had their time in the sun though,
And this is the normal way of wrestling. This is the normal way
of WWE. You have two brands, You're always going to have one brand
that every show feels like, oh, well that was better than Raw,
this was better than SmackDown. But for a long time, SmackDown was the
trending hot show. With Roman reigns and the bloodline story of the Civil War.
We all know the whole thing that happened, which was brilliant. And
now Mondonette Raw has taken over and I would imagine, while it hasn't been
established here, and I guess this is a good segue into the more detailed
stories going on with Orton and with Punk, is that both of them negotiate
a quote unquote free agent contract where they're not binded to one show. Because
Randy Orton threatened the bloodline, well, the bloodline's on another show. Ce
on Punk, you'd imagine that he is not going to just stick on Raw,
that at some point he's going to be able to gover to smack Down
and make a massive appearance there maybe confront Roman Reigns, who knows when,
But that to me makes the most sense. And I don't know if you
feel the same way that neither of them at this stage in their careers should
be binded to a single show. That they should both probably have those those
free agent contracts like brock Lesner does. Yeah, I would imagine so because
on Monday Night Raw, like sure, like the first few weeks, probably
right up until Row Rumbull season, both of them will be at the top
or at the forefront. But they're gonna get drowned out. And if they're
not going to get drowned out, then some other prominent wrestlers get get drowned
out. Like look how stars stud it take CM punk and Randy Orton out
of it. Look at the star power that they had in that in the
Wargames match. Even if you remove sammy' zane and Jay Usso, who are
flirting with being main events on a full time basis, you had, in
my opinion, four superstars or five superstars rather that are surefire main events and
that could fly in a main event on any pay per view. Damian Priest,
which I'm sure some people will argue, Finn Ballard, Drew McIntyre,
seth Rawlins, and Cody Rhodes. Those are five guys in my opinion,
that have solidified themselves a main events every day of the week. And like
I said, there's a case being made that for Sammy Zay and or Jay
usso on any given night. Now you're adding in Randy Orton, a guy
who has been on the shelf for eighteen months, looks better than ever,
Like he quite literally looks better than he did twenty five years or twenty years
ago. And CM Punk, who is the most polarizing and I don't think
this could be disputed the most polarizing character wrestler person in professional wrestling right now,
and all eyes are going to be on CM Punk. So I don't
know how much room there is for all these guys there. And you know,
not counting Sammy and j you could account for seven surefire main eventters on
Monday night right now. And that's not even mentioning any of the guys in
the mid card, Like oh, I don't know the Intercontinental Champion, Gunther
or the Miz or Chad Gable, any of the tag teams, the women's
division. So I mean, I think that absolutely CM Punk and or Randy
Orton should be should be free agents and should spend the line share of their
time over on SmackDown, because right now SmackDown is in dire need of star
power and with John Cina gone, with Roman reigns mi I A, with
Ages Styles and Shamus on the shelf, who is a surefire main event or
on SmackDown right now? Raymonds Stereo is also on the shelf. Now,
like Kevin Owens, I guess he kind of falls into that tweener category Austin
theory. Grayson Waller art there right now, like you have basically La Knight
and the collective entity of the of the of the bloodline, because the bloodline
in and of like individually with Solo and Jimmy, but they're not individually made
of ers. So I mean, I really do agree that they need to
make Randy and see him Punk free agents just because of how badly SmackDown needs
them. Yeah, to me, there's just there's no option here. And
I don't know that they weren't told on Raw if they're exclusive to Raw yet,
at least to my knowledge, I would imagine that that's where they'll land.
And they absolutely should because it keeps things fresh, It allows you to
move stars when you need to and bump smack down when Roman's out there,
which is ninety five percent of the time. So that is that's something I
expect to see moving forward. And so I mean reversing back here to that
moment that everyone's been talking about, to the moment that you've seen on TikTok
on Twitter or x rather on Instagram on Facebook. Everybody's been inundated by the
reaction videos or your reaction yourself. But I haven't been able to really chat
too much in depth with you when you you know, when you saw Randy
Orton come out, massive pop, the RKO was great, and of course
Cody having to get to victory really was just I understand why they did it
because Daddy created them. I don't give a damn that it doesn't mean anything
to me. But that said, when you saw the logo, were you
fooled into thinking, yeah, Punk's not going to be here? And when
he did, what was your reaction? Did you audibly yell or anything?
You know what. I was watching it with my buddy and when they won
the match, he tried to like cue cmpunk's music in like, like at
a certain point of Cody Rhodes's theme, like it was gonna cut off Cody
Roads's theme while they were all like high fiving and congratulating each other, and
then he was just like, ah, damn it. I thought they were
going to get us there. And then when they were panning out on the
big like aerial camera and the copyright logo came at the bottom, I literally
looked at him and I said, could they really go this? Do this
pay per view without CM punk? And then when his music hit, I
literally screamed, oh my bleep at cmpunk and got out of my seat.
And it's crazy because I'm not even a big cm punk fan. I've ripped
cmpunk a lot. And it's not even about cm punk himself. It's more
the fact that like they actually did it, like what it means and what
it means. And there's a bit of a sadistic part of me that,
like, I find it funny for ae W because I despise Tony Kahan and
I find that a W has just become like a land of misfit toys of
WWE wrestlers of yesteryear, and the fact that they squandered cm Punk to the
degree that they did. And to be fair, like I've come on here,
you've come on here and really like taken shots at cmpunk and said how
I'm professional. He came off and then and the blame does lie at his
feet. But there is no doubt that what Triple H said in the press
conference is that like positive or negative, love and or hate him, people
are gravitated to him and people talk about him, and I am so excited
to see what's gonna happen with cm punk And look, is it gonna be
like the best return ever? Is he gonna have the greatest like run in
wrestling history? Probably not. Maybe in a couple of months the in the
shine will wear off. But given everything that cmpunk has said about the company,
everything he's done, it just I don't know if I've ever had a
return feel as big and bray Wyatt's felt massive thirteen months ago, the Rocks
felt massive? What was that thirteen years ago? Now almost? But this
one just hit differently and I can't explain it, especially given the fact that
I'm not even a huge cmpunk fan. That's yeah, I was, I
will say I was. I was actually laying in bed. I was like,
I'll just watch the pay per view out through, and I'm sitting there
and I'm trying not to make any is because you know, half my family's
sleeping, and you know that would have been a whole debacle in my household.
It wasn't worth the yelling. So I had to contain myself. And
then I came on the show and I had to, you know, give
my thoughts immediately because I couldn't couldn't hold it in. And I will say
that the return did feel different. I credit WWE for waiting until the absolute
very last second with the logo. Very nice touch to fool fans because when
you see the logo, everyone knows end of show, good night, and
that didn't happen. And I mean, we got most of us got fooled
into thinking he wasn't gonna be there, even though they said, oh,
no one saw this coming. It's like, actually no, I mean you
heard fifteen thousand people in the All State Arena channing punk throughout the night,
so like that that you know, I know it's to push there, but
like, let's be real, and so this feels different, I think too,
even if and I admit I came on the show, and I continue
to say he was unprofessional in aew at times, even if he was at
FALT or not, he was unprofessional and you just can't do that. And
I stand by everything I said. But with that said, this return is
different because of the circumstances that left him to leave in the first place,
the things he said about WWE inaw how long it's been, all the things
he's talked about on Cole Cabana's podcast that in from his podcast, I dropped
what nine years ago now? So everything here just leads to just, oh
my god, how is this happening. The picture I don't know if you
saw it with Triple H and Punk backstage and Triple H's caption with something about
a cold day in Hell, because while they're not probably going to send each
other Christmas cards, it's really unfathomable to think about where they are now compared
to where they were. And I don't blame WWE for bringing him in.
It's the smart move, it's the right move. He's a needle mover,
he's going to bring in money. He's already got millions of views on social
media. I have nothing against this program, or against his return, But
I guess that might leads you to my next question. Did you see the
seth Rollins reaction from a fan video that was circulating around the web? Yeah,
of course, And that's kind of where I what kind of fueled my
opening statement here or I guess my opening thought whatever kind of a wording you
want to use, but the fact that what's real and what's not. And
we could also get into the Drew mac entire stuff, but like seth Rawlins
freaking out the way he did, giving him the double Birds the way he
did, the fact that it's Michael Cole and Corey Graves being the ones to
really try and calm him down, and like see Himpunk's reaction of just waving
at him, all of this happening off camera, like it like it just
makes you smile, Like it's making me grin right now because it's making me
think back to the way it was twenty years ago. Now. Do I
think it's a work? Absolutely? I do think it's a work. I
think Triple H knows exactly what he's doing. And you know what, if
seth Rawlins actually reacted like that, shame on him, Like I forget what
his real name is. I think it's something Spanish. That's all I can
remember from his real name. But if the real guy was reacting like that,
shame on you, dude. Like, honestly, if you're in the
entertainment business, unfortunately, it doesn't matter who put in the most miles,
who put in the hard work, who's been there the longest, who's been
the most loyal If you're in the entertainment business, it's whoever draws the most
eyeballs and by extension, the most money. And that's what CM punk is
doing. But you know what, I think seth Rollin's the guy knows exactly
how important this is, exactly how big it is, how exactly what kind
of program he and seth roll and him and cmpunk are is going to have.
And to me, it's just brilliant, Like it's absolutely brilliant the way
that they're going about this. A lot of people are ripping, like journalists
and insiders like Sean Ross staff or of Meltzer or whoever. They're like,
oh, you guys weren't on this, Like, look, this isn't the
NFL, this isn't the MLB, this isn't like a typical sports journalist trying
to find insider info to like report and break news. It's a simulated sport,
and in simulated sports, or in WWE more specifically, it's about telling
a story. And they're gonna use these reporters to tell stories. And that's
how these reporters can give us insight and content the way they are because they
are helping the company tell us a story. And to me, it's a
work, but it's a damn brilliant one at that, and I love it,
like I'm smiling right now talking about it because it's making me feel the
way I did about professional wrestling twenty years ago, because I just felt for
so long it was all a show. Everyone knew it was a show,
and it was basically like Circu Desila, like a traveling circus. But now
it's starting to feel like professional wrestling again. Okay, Yes, and just
so you know, Kolbe Daniel Lopez is his name. I couldn't. I
had no clue. I have actually never seen real I really didn't. So
those of you that need to know some trivia, it's Kolbe Daniel Lopez or
Coolbe Lopez is his real name. But you're right, this is something that
you look at and go. Even for the smart fans like myself, as
we smartmark whatever you want to label this as hardcore, I don't care what
the label is. Those of us that are more passionate and more detailed and
more involved in the product than the casual fan we look at this, even
some of us are looking at this going I don't know, is there a
real element to this? Is this something that is actually partially real at the
very least, or is this fully Seth losing his mind and getting angry that
Punk's back for whatever he said, you know, many years ago, whatever
the case may be. And I think it's ninety five percent work and five
percent that he genuinely doesn't like Phil Brooks. I think that's what it is.
And if you look back at some interviews that Seth Rollins did a couple
of years ago, or even for promoting the two K twenty three video game,
he said that, you know, for Phil Brooks, Seampunk to stay
away from WWE, that he's a cancer. He doesn't want to ever see
him. So maybe he was being smart knowing that, Okay, if Steampunk
ever comes back, I've got a match set up with the biggest star that's
going to return. So I mean, I think he was actually being proactive
in his promos or in his interviews that he did a year two years ago
talking about his dislike for Punk, knowing that if the hever comes back,
he's got a shoe in for a match with him. It's kind of a
smart deal. And if he didn't do that by on purpose, well then
it's a happy accident. I don't know what it was, but this to
me was it was. It's such a stark contrast to his character and that's
what made it so believable is he's always this happy, go lucky, cackling,
insane outfit wearing guy and then he comes out and he's flipping the bird
in a PG erasing Adam F this mother f for all these things, and
that's not something you do. You just don't do that. I mean,
like it's you have families there, you have kids that are still there,
and they did it off camera so they can get away with it there,
I guess. But this made it for me, made it feel more real
that a it was a total contrast of character for SETH two. It was
captured on a fan cell phone video, which makes it feel like you weren't
supposed to see it. It's a smart way to get it out there.
Knowing WWE, everyone everyone in the world has a video camera in their pocket.
And number three, it's already going to be exploding on the internet because
Seth Rollins or seam Punk has returned to WWE. So it is a very
smart move. Even if it was an accident or totally unintentional, it was
brilliant. And you know, even the Drew MacIntyre stuff, like him stormy
out the way he did, pissed off the wave that they said he stormed
out of the arena to the back, Like for me, this is all
calculated, and this this is how I look at it. These guys are
main events. Drew McIntyre, seth Rawlins, seth Rowins is how many how
many world titles has he won? Like five at least main evented how many
WrestleMania's Drew McIntyre was the face of the company for a period during the pandemic
era. Like, these guys are veterans. And even if you hate Phil
Brooks, and look, there's a reason, there's a cocktail reasons to hate
Phil Brooks. Paul Leveck probably hates Phil Brooks to a certain extent, but
the guy draws money. This is a mega, mega return. And if
either of these guys, let's just, you know, for a second,
play in the reality that this was a shoot. Seth Rawns, is this
piss Drew McIntyre's this pitch pissed? Shame on them. Shame on them because
that means that you care more about yourself than you do the business. And
that's why I think this is a work. But the fact that we're even
talking about it and we're like dissecting, like hell, well, you know
what if they're mad, like shame on, or some people are just like,
yeah, you know what, like you know, he's not a good
law like good luck for the locker room, the cancer is there or whatever.
That's what makes this so brilliant because we're not only talking about the return.
We're talking about different like scenarios of what it means. Was that real?
Was it fake? Was it stage? Was it at work? Is
Drew actually pissed? Does he have a contract? Seth cuts a promo last
night at a house show? Like That's what's so brilliant about all of this.
And the best part is cmpunk hasn't said a word. We haven't seen
Cmpunk on television with another wrestler yet, we haven't seen him interact with anyone
yet, and all this is going on, so it's nuts to me.
I hope that it's not just like a one hit wonder for Cmpunk and it
all spirals out of control. But I also have to be honest as such
a WW lawyer. I no love of the listeners bash me for this,
but I'll keep playing into this gimmick. I find it so funny for a
W because I think that company is just spiraling out of control right now and
they have totally off topic. MJF has a torn labrum, one of their
top stars is injured. Anyway. Yeah, so this is uh, this
is aw's of course worst nightmare, and especially if it goes well. But
you know, looking at this moving, I guess beyond the Seth deal,
which again we haven't seen. Wrong, guys, it's very possible that Seth
Rollins comes out and talks to Sampunk. I mean, we don't know yet,
we haven't seen it, so you know, again keep that in mind.
But this is a match that Seth Rollins has said he would do if
Seampunk is up to it. I mean, he has said that before in
the past, even though he doesn't like him, he would still have a
match with them if they're willing to do business, So that that seems to
be a shoe in for me. But I guess my question to you is,
as we look forward, Okay, the Punk return happened, what can
you see moving forward? The contract with Punk apparently is multi year, but
I'm just looking through WrestleMania at this point. Where do you see CM Punk
fitting now into the situation, into the into the WWE landscape, heading into
Rumble and then Elimination Chamber in Australia and then of course in Philadelphia for WrestleMania
forty. Do you have any idea? I mean, of course seth Rawlins
is out there, but you have Drew who is supposed to be facing seth
Like what now? What? What do you think could be the case for
CM Punk heading into Rumble Inmania? I mean the low hanging fruit for CM
Punk is seth Rawlins. I mean you have to imagine he's income face to
face with the Roman reigns at some point. But I feel like Cody Rhodes
is on a collision course with Roman for WrestleMania. As for Randy Orton,
I mean, he's such a Swiss army knife knife right now, you could
go and so many different directions with Randy Orton, Like the first one that
jumps off the page to me is Damien Priest. I don't know, maybe
just because of how built Damien Priest has got and just how could Randy Orton
looks just like from an esthetic point of view, it would be so like
intriguing. But that's the joy about all this is that there's no more clear
cut path anymore, but the one it's crazy. You asked me these things
about what it means for Orton and Punk specifically and individually, but it's I
don't even think about them right now. I think more about what it means
for other wrestlers. And the first thought in my head is, does this
mean that, like, we don't even need the Rock anymore? I think
it really could mean that we don't need the Rock. No one's even thinking
about the Rock now. I'm not thinking about the Rock. I kind of
gave up on it after another report after his return said oh, that was
a one off, He's not gonna be there, And then Cody dropped hints
a hint after hint that it's gonna be him facing Roman to WrestleMania. I've
come to terms with the fact that the Rock and Roman is probably not going
to happen this year. If it does, great, but here's the thing,
we don't need it because of how many opponents that Roman Reigns has lined
up. Am I still going to be pissed off? And am I still
going to be honestly kind of insulted as a fan and angry and felt let
on for years by the Rock specifically because WW is more than willing to do
it, But so I would put the majority of the blame on the Rock.
Yeah, I'll still be angry. I'm not going to forget about it.
This doesn't absolve the Rock, but it does make me forget about him
for a little while because of so many opponents that are lined up. Of
course, aj styles, you have a Cody Rhodes part two, which is
he's probably going to be the one to take the setle left Roman, but
you have Randy Orton floating out there. I mean, there's just now a
line of guys like yeah, exactly, Yeah, you have so many guys
that are just ready to go built in stories that to honestly like it would
soften the blow, but it wouldn't make me forget about it or forgive anyone.
For Yeah, I'm not gonna forgive, like in my opinion, and
not to go on a rock dietribe, I feel like he's done irreparable damage
to his legacy in WWE, and I know that he feels like he still
has stuff to do in WWE because he's not in the Hall of Fame yet.
And to me, if he was really ready to just hang up his
boots and never come back, he would have been put in the Hall of
Fame years ago. But for me, I think he's stringing them along.
But it feels like the way that the WWE landscape is right now and you
have so many stars that we're not even really talking about, like a Kevin
Owens, Sammy Zaane Austin Theory, like AJ Styles Shamus, like all these
guys who, yeah, they're probably better situted for the mid card, but
still quality wrestlers, like even Roman Reigns at this point with CM punk back
and Randy Yorton back, and you know, seth Rawlins as important as he's
feeling is and even though we don't like him, Cody Rhoads in the position
he is Damian Priest really rising. Drew McIntyre is still a very intriguing character.
I'm very intrigued to see what happens with Drew McIntyre, La and Knight,
who I think still has a lot of popularity. Dunther still on a
big rise and a big PUSH's Intercontinental Champion slowly eventually would assume that he's gonna
scratch the surface on the main event. I don't even think you need the
belt on Roman Reigns anymore, like I think now how WWE is you have
found a landscape and a cast as superstars that you don't need to keep that
championship on Roman Reigns. In the pandemic era, it saved the company in
a lot of ways. It saved creative. It was the most intriguing story
weekend week out when they were in the Thunderdome coming out of the pandemic era.
It was the same thing that you were really like, you know,
when you had the WWE Championship on Biggie or Bobby Lashley, Like Roman Reigns,
still all of us felt like the champion who was going to carry the
Monday Night Raw brand, and that title always played second fiddle. It made
sense. But now with seth Rawlins and Cody Rhodes and how CM Punk are
returning, Randy Yorton l a Night, to say nothing of guys like Sammy's
Ain Singles run by Jay Ouso Damian Priest Like, it just feels like it's
time where you don't need to lean on the like a guy like Roman Reigns
anymore. You don't need to lean on the Rock returning, You don't need
to lean on a part timer like brock Lesnar. It feels like right now
what WWE, WWE has at their disposal talent wise and how well creative it
is clicking under triple H. I don't even remember the last time they were
in this good of a position. That was actually my follow up question to
you is, I don't when was the last time you felt this positive about
the product? And again, take the returns aside, those are just a
bonus, you know, take take the returns aside. WWE, even despite
the Punk and Orton returns, which we're massive and absolutely everyone's talking about it
right now. It's the hot topic, and rightfully so. But even take
those out of it. WWE has been on a hell of a run lately
and done a great job, and I don't think they get the credit they
deserve sometimes for Number one, how difficult it is to build stars. It's
not easy to do at all. I don't envy their position. I'm not
saying it's easy to do. I'm just saying it's the lifeblood of the company,
and I think they have done a very good job over the last couple
of years helping build new stars. It may not always be the stars that
people want or that they think WWE should push, and sure they screw up,
but I think they've done a great job of creating a next generation where
you, like you said, I don't know if we really even need to
lean on the stars of yesteryear to create an interesting product anymore. But when
they do return, it's a big deal because now you're thinking about fantasy matchups,
you're thinking about Royal Rumble, you're thinking about WrestleMania, and it's just
it's almost a bonus, a necessity. And I don't know how you feel
about the overall product, which I think you just kind of answered, it's
crazy because when we started doing this show, together, which is what like
four how long ago was it twenty nineteen? Yeah, twenty nineteen, so
that's four and a half years ago, which is bananas to think about.
That was probably the product at its wars, Like I remember we did a
show. It was probably like the third or fourth time we spoke, and
we were talking about the upcoming main event of a pay per view of Baron
Corbyn and Lacy Evans versus Becky Lynch and Seth Rawls and Dolf Ziggler versus Kofi
Kingston for the WWE Championship and the US champion. I want to say was
can't even tell you. I think the Intercontinental Champion was Bobby Lashley with Leo
Rush as his mouth piece. Leo Rush like, yeah, he would be
like lash lash like, So just to say, is that leading into the
pandemic era when we first started, when I first joined your podcast was probably
the worst summer of twenty nineteen was like the Duldron years of WWE creative and
the last time I felt this way about it like that tonight I had to
rush home from work because I wanted to see the opening to Monday Night raw
Honestly, you're probably going back like over fifteen years ago, like going into
wrestling in twenty three, like when they were building Sewn Michaels versus John Cena,
which I think was one of the best builds of all time and one
of the more underrated wrestling matches. But for me to feel this like attached
the product and this confident about the product, you're probably going back fifteen sixteen
years. There is no doubt that right now, and again I'm trying to
put aside the returns because everybody feels rosy when those happens, but that wears
off relatively quickly. Those pops that both men got are very unlikely to continue
to duplicate themselves week after week because you get used to the person being there.
It's human nature that feeling will wear off. But what will stay are
the guys that are continuing to ascend, the ones that you are are watching
and seeing the stars of yesteryear help them achieve greatness, and you're watching,
really you're watching at this point, I think stars that aren't just in their
beginning stages but are starting to peak. Gunther is starting to become party quote
unquote in his prime. You have the mis who's been kind of reinvigorated by
a baby face turn that I mean I didn't think would work and didn't think
it'd be successful, but it has been. Seth Rollins is repeaking at this
time because of all the controversy right now, but he's been a good CHA
ampion over the last seven months or so. I mean, you have Roman
Reigns, of course, but we've already discussed him. You have l A
Knight who came out of nowhere as an organic kind of fan driven It's just
a star that really no one saw coming in terms of being able to main
event him on a on a ple e. And here we are and he's
still talking about targeting Roman Reigns. Like we have so many guys right now,
and the Judgment dating is a successful group. J Uso going out on
his own and being a major star. Cody Rhodes, for as much as
you and I hate his babyface character, is a big star, love him
or hate him. And so there's just everything right now. It's not all
roses, but I mean there's some things that are still god awful, but
it's more good than bad, and and it's it's sometimes difficult to find things
to nitpick because things right now feel so good, But I also want fans
to realize, hey, these returns and how feel good that is that wears
off. What doesn't is the storyory of the stories w produces and the weak
to weak quality of the product, the promos, the matches, which continue
to be really really good. So yeah, this is this is a time
when I don't know if I don't know if fan loyalty or fan satisfaction has
been any higher. I'd love to do a poll if I could pull the
millions of fans out there or what the how they feel about the product,
what would come back at right now? And that's just to say it's not
with its warts right. Like I saw a bit where of them promoting the
tag team Turmoil match a backstage you know a little thing where like a cure
Desa was doing like some shimmy that's now supposed to be funny. Like there
still are the stupidities and they still are going to make mistakes. I still
think the way that they've booked Roman Reigns matches up until three weeks ago is
really really like just repetitive and boring and predictable. Like there are things that
still need to be improved, but it feels like for the first time in
fifteen years that the positives vastly outweigh the negatives. And and like you said,
take away the returns like take away see him punk, like Randy Orton,
Like, I mean, he's a big return, but we could factor
that in. He's been around for a while. He was a big part
of the pandemic era. Arguably one on his best run during the pandemic era.
But like even without that, like Monday Night Row was becoming maybe not
must watch because yeah, sometimes like the formula was very similar, but the
storytelling has been really good. Every segment that you put on right now means
something, even if it isn't your flavor, even if you find it dumb,
it doesn't hit quite right. Like the Zoe Stark let's say, promo
from what was it two weeks ago? That was a really bad promo.
It was unfortunate. I really felt bad for Zoe Stark, but still meant
something. Yeah, Jack's return. Not a lot of people like Nia Jacks.
A lot of people were just like why should hear? But it meant
something, you know everything or like you know, pretty deadly's the the what
was that promo package? They did with their their feet like they're getting pedicures
or something like, maybe it's not your flavor of the week, but it
meant something. It was furthering their characters, their storytelling. And that's what
I find different now is that under Vince McMahon, there were so many,
you know, angles and segments and matches in a week that you knew had
no consequence and in the grand scheme of things, meant nothing, Like like,
have you realized that there are very very few squash matches anymore, like
with enhancement talents. Yeah, unless they're doing it in dark matches, I
haven't seen them on TV, and like, and that's what I really like,
how they've pushed the Creed brothers, Like how fast they how fast they
like thrusted Austin not not Austin theory a Grayson Waller into like a very significant
role. Like even a guy like Cameron Grimes. Cameron Grimes is someone who
I think has lost every single time he's been on TV, but he's literally
always had quality matches. Look at Bronson Reid, Like Bronson Reid under Vince
McMahon would have gotten the Bronze Schrowman treatment where you just squashed enhancement talents for
two months straight and then they would have tried to build him up. And
Bronson bron Strowman actually had a pretty good run under Vince mc mann. But
like Bronson, Reid has taken a lot of losses. But every time he
comes out there, it's to mean something. And that's what I like about
this right now, is that even when I don't like it, or it
doesn't hit for me, or it's not my flavor, at least I could
come away saying, you know what, that meant something and it was fair
purpose and you know what, I think has been also a staple of the
Triple H era. And I don't want to put all of the all the
praise on Triple H and all of the everything Vince did was bad, but
but it does feel fresh now and and I think the staple of Triple H's
run over for a little over a year now has been that not only have
his pay per views come out feeling better than them they went in, but
it almost like every pay per view, every pla has kind of hit the
reset button ode or like the like the it's wiped the slate clean of any
bad feelings you had about the company or a lot of them, and you're
like, Okay, cool, I'm now into I'm back into this or I'm
back into that where going and you're like, let's see what happens. And
it's just something that I think is a credit to the talent themselves who are
given more time to do what they do best, and that is tell good
stories in the ring. Even if they suck on the mic, they can
tell you a hell of a story in the ring, and I think that
that's something that is that's something that is not often talked about as well,
and so honestly, like yeah, like you said, though, there is
still the crap that will always be crap on pro wrestling whenever anytime they usually
they try to comedy. Comedy is difficult to do. It is very difficult
to do, and especially when you try to have people do it that aren't
professionals do it and it usually does not work out. Well. I know
it is supposed to be the Sentina Morella of our generation or you know,
like I get it, and there's some of it is kind of like it
it's not super embarrassing to watch, but you're just like, yeah, if
I had my friend over I wouldn't want him watching this stuff. I'd feel
embarrassed. But if I'm alone, I'm like, all right, I can
deal with this. And know I was like, that kind of stuff is
always going to live in wrestling because they feel it's to let me up moment.
It's a palette cleanser. It's a oh you can't, you got to
shake things up from all the serious stuff going on. And I get it.
I get it. So it's good. It's going to forever be the
fabric woven into the fabric of WWE. There's nothing we can do about it.
But generally, I think the product has felt more wrestling focused, it
has felt more storagedriven, and as you said, it has felt more like
everything actually has a purpose instead of just filler. This is one thing that
we used to talk about when we first came on. Well, when I
first strudged, you showed like, does Vince McMann get too much flak that
everything he touches people Blaze like said was bad, and I you know,
was happy when he got out to But I'm just like, ah, maybe
we're making too much of this. How much of a difference is Triple H
gonna make or how much of a difference will it make Vince not being there.
But now that we saw how it was in late twenty twenty two when
he quote unquote retired, where it got to when he I guess presumably shoved
his way back into creative And how it's been the last two months when the
reports came out that area manual removed him from creative. Is it fair to
say that that wasn't overblown that Vince McMahon in the last let's say ten ish
years, maybe a bit less than that has been a major problem for creative,
no doubt about it. I mean, this is this is the topic
gum Man. I we could just veer off in another forty five minutes,
but I mean, the short answer, the short version the cliff notes is
yes. And it just comes down to number one. Age. As we
age, even the great Vince McMahon, your mind will deteriorate, it will
go downhill. You're not as sharp, you're repeating yourself, you're you're not
coming up with the ideas that you used to. And also it's coming from
the same mind. So when it's coming from the same mind or it's being
fed to the same mind, and then filtered out. It's the same it's
the same source that it's coming from. It's the same guy that's going through.
So you're gonna get a lot of the same results and a lot of
the same feeling when it's the same guy for forty years, and especially when
you have a mentally deteriorating, uh you know, geriatric man. It's just
it's just the way it's gonna be. So I think Triple H while he
is going to falter and there will be times where we're sitting here going,
what the hell is he thinking? This was awful and it's gonna happen.
Of course, he's human, he's a human being, and I understand that.
Sure. I think the Vince McMahon era to now, with Triple H
being in charge for such a long period of time, now you can kind
of look at it and go, oh, yeah, these are the the
just the general feeling of the product is more. It feels like a wrestling
show. I think that is really what the difference is. And that's weird
to say, considering that it should have been feeling that way all along.
It feels more wrestling less quote unquote entertainment. Wrestling is entertainment. But when
they try to entertain this with something outside of wrestling that feels more like Vince,
and I would agree with that it's crazy because I do think that Vince
had a lot of It's just sad. It's odd, to be honest,
it's just sad. And even when Triple A said, like, I'm just
trying to continue building what Vince McMahon turned into like a global phenomenon, like
him name dropping Vince Micmann, Like it's crazy that he was like this brilliant
promoter, the promoter of all time, and he just like overstayed as welcome
and like we're seeing it in an in ring on screen capacity with Rick Flair
right now? Are we not like someone who is widely regarded as one of,
if not the best of all time in terms of being a wrestler,
and we're literally seeing Rick Flair. I don't want to say disgrace himself because
that's pretty brutal and mean and disrespectful, but like, is Rick Flair just
kind of like a I don't know of metaphor is the right terminology, but
a representation of maybe what was going on with Vince McMahon behind the scenes in
creative I think yeah, in a different capacity. It's where this business and
I'm not inside it. I'm on the outside, just talking about what I
think is on the inside. But from everything I've seen and heard over twenty
five years plus, this business gets in your blood. It's something you just
can't let go of. And when it's part of your identity and it's part
of who you are and part of your life, a large part of your
life, it's really difficult to let go of because that's what in who you
are. And so for Vince being on the inside and being the CEO and
the chairman and running things for how many years, it's really difficult to detach
from that. So he did everything he could to kind of cling on,
hang on and be a part of the baby he helped create. And credit
to him. I mean, everything Vince did wasn't always great, but he
gave us a platform that will forever be in existence, we hope. And
then you have on the wrestling side of things that Rick Flair. You have
a guy that is clearly i mean twenty years out of his prime, in
twenty years away from being able to wrestle a credible match in which I think
you're gonna look at this if Rick Flair has imagined aw and you're gonna look
at this and go, I just don't want him to die. Like if
you look at a guy and you're saying that the goal of the match is
to make sure that your opponent or one of the competitors doesn't die, I
think that's a that's a sign of you know, maybe maybe you put this
guy in when he was a little bit past his prime. So is he
disgracing himself? Like kind of But fans aren't gonna really care too much.
They're gonna be like, Wow, it's a Rick Flair match. Rick Flair
is in this because that's his identity. That's who he was and who he
still believes he is. And I understand that feeling. But at this point,
yeah, he's it is kind of embarrassing for him. I don't think
he's gonna ruin his legacy by any means. I don't be forever be etched,
but man, yeah, I don't like to see it. I mean,
we saw it with the Undertaker and others where it's like that wasn't so
great. You can see the writing on the wall, and the writing is
long faded for for Rick Flair. So I guess as we wrap it up
here, like, I mean, what are we to expect from like the
triple A chair moving forward? Like and look, there's there are wards in
Triple H like every like everyone has, Like I'm not saying here saying that
he like everything he touches turns to gold, but there's been tangible improvement.
But like if they were, you know what, let's make it simpler.
What's one we just praise Triple H for what the last hour or so and
how creative has been unders watch, what's the one thing you want to see
Triple H fix moving forward here? Like, what's the one thing to improve
on? M Well, not welcoming to someone anet raw or SmackDown every single
time that somebody comes out. Why they need to do that is so stupid,
I would say. And I don't know if this is really a fix
as more of just kind of a continual progression of making the product feel like
anything could happen where you know when a finish is coming, where you know
you can kind of feel things out. Just continue to do the little things,
fix the little things that uh that that are that that make the environment
feel like it's truly not and anything can happen environment it feels that times too
controlled. It feels at times too much like you know what's going to happen
next, and you know a lot of the time we're right as fans and
unpredictably they can be fun if it's done the right way and it's done for
the right reason. So I would say continual evolution of just adding creating that
environment that fans feel. It's an exciting environment. You're always on your toes.
You feel like, oh wait, you know, I don't want to
miss this, something crazy could happen. So I would say that would be
kind of a continual evolution. But what about you. I kind of touched
on it before, but just have more consistency with the championships on any given
show, and that means SmackDown right now, Like look SmackDown for since Crown
Jewel, the only championship that we've seen on SmackDown is the Women's championship,
and you know what, to be fair, that's probably the best story that
SmackDown has going right now is damage control and the impending I guess outsting of
Bailey, which we all see coming. But I think the biggest reason why
SmackDown has felt so blaw in the month of November and post Crown Jewel is
because there's no championships, and you say it all the time, why are
the men there or why are the women there? Why is everyone there to
win championships? Why do you play football games every Sunday? Why do baseball
players play one hundred and eighty times a year to win the championship? And
on SmackDown it kind of feels like a rudderless ship right now. All the
guys are just vying for what exactly, Like, Okay, yes, Santos
Escobar, Yeah, that's a really good story. A La Night trying to
get revenge on the bloodline, that's a really good story, you know,
trying to build up Dragonly. Yeah, that's a good story. But like,
there's no tag title, there's no mid card title, there's no world
title. And for me, I think that we've seen now on two occasions
wrong for all of twenty twenty two without a world championship to contend for,
and now SmackDown with no men's championship to contend for at all, forget a
world title, there's no mid card time or a tag title. I really
think that we've seen on two separate occasions the big negative effect that a lack
of championships, both singular and plural could have on a brand that I know
that that's a good suggestion. I mean, again, we've been without a
champion on some backdown since essentially WrestleMania what thirty eight? Uh so yeah,
that and one last thing i'd suggest, triple h. You know, make
the brand rules mean something. You know they Okay, I know that it
doesn't happen every week that somebody violates the brand rules, but it's either do
it or don't. You can't be half pregnant. You either are or you
aren't. You don't just do this and then you know, turn your back
on it and go Well for the storyline, we're just gonna put the you
know, I've complained about this forever, but it's it's it's continues to show
it's ugly head and it's like you can't have both, but it continues to
happen. And I know I'm speaking into the ether here, but so that'd
be another suggestion. And so I mean, of course we could come up
with others, but I think we'll kind of close things out there. Do
you have any final comments or suggestions or whatever. Nope, just that I
think it's gonna be a one hell of a ride between nown WrestleMania. I'm
really looking forward to this. Oh absolutely, this is gonna be a lot
of fun and there'll be some hiccups and things that we just shake our head
at, but overall, I think this is gonna be one of the best
WrestleMania seasons we've seen in maybe over ten fifteen year years, like since the
Ruthless Aggression Eira of This could be one of those epic WrestleMania seasons. And
that doesn't include Stone Cold, this doesn't include the Rock, but it could.
I mean, who knows. So all right, well, this has
been a lot of fun as we get into really, to me, the
unofficial starts to wrestle Mania season. In my mind, that's where I'm at
already. But guys, don't forget. You can check out Anthony DeMarco's non
PG version of this show after Dark only on Patreon at the NXT plus and
higher levels. So check us out there and Anthony saying, thanks so much,
buddy, we'll be chatting in a week. Yeah, man, looking
forward to it. Enjoy Monday. Nightra you too, Thanks for listening to
the WWE Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you
don't miss a show, or head to wwepodcast dot com and for all of
these shows ad free, head over to Patreon dot com slash WWE podcast.
Until then, we'll see you next time.