Save vs. Splurge

Caroline Gidiere: I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Paloma Contreras: Time well, it's good to see you.

Caroline Gidiere: Good to see you too, as always. As always, tell me ⁓ what's going on ⁓ with Precious Margot.

Paloma Contreras: Yes. Poor thing. I told you she'd had an ear infection and then on Friday she got home got sent home with a stomach bug So she's been through the wringer lately, but she's doing well. I took her back to the pediatrician yesterday just to make sure We were good because she hasn't had much of an appetite and she's really picky So she only eats, you know five or six things and she's averse to all of them right now and hasn't been wanting to eat anything but saltine crackers ⁓ But anyhow, the doctor was like her

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Hmm.

Paloma Contreras: know, exam was beautiful, she's fine. So anyway, we're on the mend and she's school and she's happy and ⁓ all good. But thank you for asking. How are things with you? What was your high and low this last week?

Caroline Gidiere: Good, good, good, good. Okay, let me tell you what my high is. It is Girl Scout cookie season, honey. I love it. I got so excited when I came home because Stephen is always in charge of the Girl Scout cookies because he works in an office and there are a lot of ⁓ secretaries, paralegals, and younger associates with younger children that are selling Girl Scout cookies. ⁓ And he usually always gets it wrong.

Paloma Contreras: Hahaha ⁓ no, what's your favorite?

Caroline Gidiere: He'll bring something home. Lou and I are in accord that the highest and best Girl Scout cookie is the Trefoil It just does not get any better. Then we all split. Yeah, the little shortbread cookie.

Paloma Contreras: The Trefoil - I don't think I know that one. ⁓ is that what they call it now? Okay, I didn't realize.

Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ now? Girl, come on! They've always called it a trip.

Paloma Contreras: Maybe, is it regional? I've always just known it as shortbread. And it has the logo? ⁓ okay, okay. The shape, yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: No, it's the trefoil. Yeah, it's the logo. It's the trefoil. It's like, ⁓ I guess it's got, yeah, the shape of the logo is that. But yeah, I mean, I could take out a sleeve and turn around twice and it's gone if I get moving on it. But I haven't indulged that much this time. ⁓ After that, I go to the, I think it's called a tag along, not a tag along, a... I can't remember what it's called. It is the two little oatmeal cookies with the peanut butter in between. That's my number two. I could eat a frozen Thin Mint. I mean, I wouldn't turn it down.

Paloma Contreras: Okay. Okay. I love a Thin Mint. Okay, I'm a Thin Mint girl and then I do like the shortbread, the trefoil. And I used to love a Caramel Delight, but those are just, I mean, you just can't look at the nutrition facts and you can't look at the ingredients. Otherwise that just kills the whole deal. Yeah. So

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. No. No. so my bad - my bad week is this whole entry looming situation. I guess they have fixed pre check. Yes, ⁓ I'm actually now not I'm going to drive because of that. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: ⁓ gosh, yes, and we're both flying tomorrow.

Caroline Gidiere: Even though I canceled too quickly. anyway, I think I'm better off. It's an antique show. I love having a car. ⁓ But ⁓ it's the looming global entry thing. They don't get this worked out because we have an international flight at the end of the month. And I just ⁓ I'm not sure if I can go back to the like the general line of everybody coming through customs after you've done that global entry and sailed through. It's hard. ⁓ So that's kind of a bad week, just the thought of ⁓ all of that mess. I hope they get it worked out. How about you?

Paloma Contreras: ⁓ well, similar. ⁓ I feel like there's a lot of travel questions looming between the global entry shutdown and we are scheduled to go to Cabo for spring break on the 9th. so in a couple of weeks and you know, with all that's happened this week in Mexico, I'm a little trepidatious. I mean, it's

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

Paloma Contreras: It's, I'm more cautious about it because we'll be traveling with our daughter. But Fabian is like, well, we're going to a different region. Cabo's generally very safe. There isn't anything happening there with any sort of cartel. But I'm like, well, what if something happened? So I've been, you know, on top of having a crazy work week, trying to squeeze in any minute that I can to try to, you know, cobble together a last minute alternative. And it's, I don't know that.

Caroline Gidiere: Right.

Paloma Contreras: there's going to be one because the flights are all really full and we really need to sit together having a little one, at least one of us with her. Like she's not gonna sit by herself. And these days, I mean, you can't always rely on, you can't assume that someone's gonna give up their seat to your four year old so that you can fly with them, because people aren't always nice. So. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, of course. No, no.

Paloma Contreras: I don't know that we're going to be able to put together a backup plan in time, even if hotels are available in a couple of places. I also don't have the time to plan a trip to a new destination between now and then. So I think we're just going to monitor. And if things remain calm or stay calm and Cabo specifically, then we may just go. But if anything else happens, I think we'll just cancel all together and stay home or, you know, do something.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm. Yeah, good luck with that.

Paloma Contreras: in Texas, I guess, somewhere drivable possibly. We'll see. So that's the low. And then my high, thank you, was over the weekend we were out to lunch and my client's daughter, we just installed a client's home a couple of weeks ago, and her sweet mom, who I'd met before, saw us at the restaurant and came over and was so sweet and so kind and just had the loveliest things to say about... the house and how it came together and how happy she and her daughter were about it and just how the experience had been so great. you know, it's always nice to get that reassurance from a client, but a client's mom is especially going to be, you know, another level, like in terms of you really wanting their approval because they're going to be a harsher critic. You would assume in most cases, you know, they're looking after their baby, of course, and want them to have the best. So.

Caroline Gidiere: Hmm. ⁓ gosh, she has. Absolutely. For sure.

Paloma Contreras: ⁓ That was just really, really nice of her to do and to take the time to come over and say hello and share such nice thoughts.

Caroline Gidiere: So wonderful, so wonderful. Yes, it always feels good. I've been lucky enough a couple of times to interact with. a client's mother and you're right. It's better, it's really, if we're being honest, it's better than hearing from the client because in some sense you do feel like the client has become a friend and a partner, a collaborator and there is a part that you will never know truly exactly how they feel about everything, right? ⁓ When it's the best, you know, you're still not, there's gonna be an element of she may just be being nice about this. But when you hear from the mom, you know that it's a, yes, it's a complete success. Absolutely. Well, that's great.

Paloma Contreras: That's right, that's the ultimate stamp of approval. Yes. Yeah, forget the husband as long as the mom approves. That's a success for sure.

Caroline Gidiere: The husbands, they, the husbands care about the budget and if the wife is happy and well, that's not always true, but at least those two are always true, but you can get a, you can get an ornery husband, you know, who's ⁓ just not into design and you know, likes to be, ⁓ I mean, some guys just love playing the role of a curmudgeon and you just kind of.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: love them and move on, you know, like not worry about it.

Paloma Contreras: I couldn't agree more. Well, we have our first listener question, which is super exciting. And this is actually, I think, a really fun topic because I'm excited to hear your take on it. ⁓ Do you dress the way you decorate? Does your wardrobe follow a similar aesthetic to the spaces that you design?

Caroline Gidiere: You No, not at all. For instance.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I think of you like you were always so chic and put together. But I feel like you are more minimalist. You're very much a minimalist in your wardrobe. It's always like some very chic, elevated basic, a sleek dress, a sleek sandal, ⁓ sort of minimal jewelry, things that see on the test of time, nothing loud, always a pale, like nude nail. ⁓ Snatch face and hair hunting, always. Yes. But your interiors are so feminine and you're much more of a maximalist when it comes to, I think, the homes you design. So I think that's a really interesting juxtaposition because, you know, there's that old adage that like people's wardrobes reflect the way they decorate, but

Caroline Gidiere: Honey, as she gets older, as she ages.

Paloma Contreras: I don't feel that way about myself even. I think there's less of a contrast for me, but there's a definite contrast for you.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, Paloma. think your design aesthetic is not too far away from the way that you dress and that there are clean lines. It is classic. It's not, it is ⁓ all about the details and the fine pieces and you often wear ⁓ more earth tones and we see a lot of that. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: the greens and the browns and ⁓ the warmer pink side, you know, not a bluey pink, a warmer pink if you're doing more of an earthy ⁓ tones. ⁓ You know, blacks ⁓ and things that I'm trying to think of the different dresses that I have known you to wear over the years. And of course I don't see you on a daily basis. Usually you have on a dress when I see you. But they're all, they do seem to speak to me of your interiors. But if you walked in my closet, I have, the only time I ever wear color or pattern is with a dress. And that's just like, just about every dress, not every dress, but a lot of the dresses that I have are color and pattern, but it's a one piece, know, a one and done, throw it on, you have a shoe and you don't have to worry about it. Literally everything else in my wardrobe, if it's not a tweed jacket, is black, white, navy, or blue and white stripe. Period. There is no variation. If you looked at it, it would be like, I'm sensing a pattern here. There's like blue jeans, white jeans, black jeans, black pants, one or two gray or tan pants, black shirts, white shirts, blue and white striped shirts.

Paloma Contreras: Yum. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: and tweed jackets and black blazers and tan blazers. That's it. There's nothing more. Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, it's a uniform. Well, you I think I can totally relate to that. mean, feel like, excuse me, my wardrobe sort of leans two different directions. It's either classic basics, like button down shirts, pretty ⁓ poplin shirts, lots of white shirts, more white shirts than anybody needs to own. ⁓ I wear a lot of jeans, like day to day, I'm typically in jeans. I'll throw on a jacket over like a

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: a cute top and jeans all the time. ⁓ Or I'll do dresses. And I think that's where I get a little bit more feminine, more bohemian, play with color and pattern like you. Where was I going with this? I feel like I lost my train of thought. ⁓ No, what was it? What was I gonna say? It had to do with ⁓ interiors. Anyway, I feel like, ⁓ what's in my closet? I mean, lots of jackets.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. It's okay to have install of it. Your closet? What's in your closet?

Paloma Contreras: ⁓ Which is ironic because I live in a place where you can only wear a jacket, you know, a quarter of the year. But I like to layer them and I'm always cold. I'm typically always cold in our office. So I always like throw something on even if it's cold outside. ⁓ But yeah, it's like lots of jeans. I like comfort and I tend to, I know where I was going. I tend to prioritize comfort, stylishly of course, like we're not in sweatpants here. Over.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: fashion and like putting together a look the way a real fashion girl might. ⁓ But for me it's just like I don't want to spend the time. A. I don't have the time and B. I don't have the inclination and I'm having to make a million other decisions throughout the day for other people. ⁓ And so I just like I know what works it's sort of formulaic to a degree and I'm okay with that.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm hmm. That ship has sailed for me. You know, I saw an article that said, if you look at the fashion designers, like, we talk about Carolina Herrera or Michael Kors or, you know, even Wes Gordon or, ⁓ Any of them, Phoebe Filo, I'm trying to think of who all else, they have a uniform, they wear the same thing day in and day out. And when you are in a creative space where you have so many decisions, you know, right now I have a list of 30 things that I need to select, like immediately. When you have to engage that much creativity, it is nice in the morning, just like we were talking about. You and I were talking about earlier getting my makeup down to a 15 minute science. Like I've got to eliminate, you know, I've got to become more efficient and that that's an easy way. But I'm also a came into fashion in the nineties and my wardrobe is very nineties coded and always has been. I mean, I do ⁓ try to keep current with everything, but my core aesthetic is very nineties coded.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. which I love and I'm so into right now and we'll get into that more a little later. I'm so excited.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, Yes, but nothing like the interiors. My interiors are very traditional and classic and colorful and patterns and yeah, maybe more like the dresses that I wear.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. I like that there's a juxtaposition. And I think, like you said, when your job is to be creative and to make decisions a million times a day for other people, there's just not enough bandwidth. And you have to decide, where am I going to allow that? I can still look chic and put together and have something that's more minimal or just pull classic pieces and not have to worry about putting together a whole outfit.

Caroline Gidiere: last night. Sure. And the comfort thing, as we get older, think ⁓ that's something. Discomfort in fashion is for the 20 to 30 year old set. I think you have to go through the pain of fashion to get on the other side of why I'm not gonna wear these stilettos tonight. Like, I've done it. I understand how miserable my evening is gonna get at the end of it. And then I'm gonna be walking barefooted on some nasty street.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Right.

Caroline Gidiere: because my feet are killing me so bad. You have to live that to know why you're being more reasonable with your shoe selection.

Paloma Contreras: That is so true, that is so, true. Well, as a segue, I feel like we can sort of apply that same wisdom to certain areas, like is it worth suffering, is it worth the pain or the effort to dress a certain way or to choose a certain shoe? Let's talk about saving and splurging. Where does it make sense to save and where does it make sense to splurge and really invest?

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: when it comes to both interiors and fashion, because we know design and fashion can be a balancing act and the most successful rooms or wardrobes are all about the mix, new and old, modern and contemporary, masculine and feminine, and of course, high and low. So let's talk about what is actually worth it. We'll start with interiors. How do you feel about rugs? Is that an area where you generally, we're speaking generally, obviously there are gonna be anomalies in specific cases, but in general, are you saving or splurging on rugs in your interiors?

Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ can go either way. ⁓ generally a rug is a great place to save. I think because a rug, unless you have an open, more open-ended budget and many of our projects, you know, we do have the room to start with a really fine rug, but not everybody does. And Most people have a budget. You have a budget that you're working with and you've got to slice this pie up. so because I have so much else I would like to accomplish in a space as far as fine upholstery, really gorgeous fabrics, elevated drapery and fine antiques. I take a cue from the bunny melons, the miles reds, the Now, Miles has really fine antique rugs, but he also has a go-to of a ⁓ natural fiber. And natural fibers are often so much less expensive. If you really need to cut it tight, like we're working on a lake house right now, ⁓ I've used ⁓ very successfully and love rush matting and then coming in with a smaller area rug. ⁓ to add the layering, not only does it add layering, but it limits the exposure. Rugs have gotten very expensive. ⁓ There are a lot of good options out there, different companies that we work with that we can have custom rugs made, ⁓ but I usually do try to save ⁓ in the rug, generally in the rug area, unless we are... on different projects in important rooms will come in and do ⁓ a fine ⁓ wool rug either new or commissioned. I mean, antique or commissioned, yeah.

Paloma Contreras: I'm of the same, yeah, I tend to do the same. I feel like the way that I design and similar thinking about budgets and all that, we do a lot of natural fiber. do, I mean, we'll do antique rugs, we'll do custom rugs ⁓ when it calls for it. And I know people who are very passionate about rugs. Like we all have that category in design that we're especially excited about.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: really love and I know people who love rugs and there's a beautiful fancy antique or custom rug in every room. That's not really like my jumping off point and so often times I feel like the rugs are a way to also tone down the room and keep it from going over the top. there's something I'm a humble rug girl. I love a natural fiber. I love a dirty. I love a wool flat weave and then in like really high traffic.

Caroline Gidiere: Mine too. Absolutely. Mm hmm.

Paloma Contreras: family focused areas like family rooms, dens, kids rooms. We often do like a wool broad flume because you can get some color, some pattern and they wear really well over time and they're, you know, cost effective. ⁓ the rugs I would say generally speaking are not my area to splurge in. And like you said, they're a good place to save on. What about lighting?

Caroline Gidiere: Mm hmm. Yeah. Perfect. Absolutely. Here's where I will save on lighting. ⁓ When I've got to make budget, I am ⁓ very resourceful in finding older vintage or antique lamps that I can change the cord, change the socket, and ⁓ maybe the base, and add a pretty shade to it. and get under budget. So I'm not above doing that. But I don't, I think it's like, ⁓ my mother always said, you should invest in quality shoes and handbags, because those are the biggest tell of ⁓ everything else, you can fake it, but you can't fake your shoes. your shoes are poor quality, you can see it at a distance. I feel the same way about lighting.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I mean, I really see it as the jewelry of the home and it's such a focal point. It's so obvious when someone has skimped. I mean, you see it, especially when you go into something that was maybe built as a spec and there wasn't necessarily a designer or a specific client involved and you see like the builder made these decisions based on budget alone. ⁓ It's a really obvious tell and there can be a balance. I mean, I think that you can go with

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: a really beautiful antique chandelier, ⁓ Charles Edwards, or even like a custom urban electric thing ⁓ in certain spots in the house. And then you can have your visual comfort, bread and butter, Hudson Valley kind of things, you know, in bathrooms and hallways and sort of layer it that way. So every piece isn't a statement and it isn't gonna kill your budget, but it's still high quality and they're real living finishes, not painted finishes. I think that's...

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: I feel that way about cabinet hardware and plumbing fixtures too. I feel like those are just sort of the things that really stand out ⁓ when it comes to the bones of the house. So I do think that's an area that you don't want. I mean, you can save, you can be creative in how you disperse your budget, but I think you have to be really conscientious and that's not a place to really like completely save and scale back.

Caroline Gidiere: Absolutely. for sure. I think the appropriateness of the lamp choices as far as the quality of them are a big tell about the skills of the decorator. just, you know, as far as whether they know what they're doing. When I walk in a space, for sure, if I see a cheap lamp in a room, it just ruins the whole thing for me. It's like, hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. I agree. Well, you know what else I notice? I, my cat, you know, we talked about there are rug people. I'm a lighting person, naturally. ⁓ I feel like you can tell. I mean, my husband works for a lighting company and I have a lighting line with visual comfort. I'm, I love lighting. But things that I notice, and I'm talking about like in magazine spreads and people's published books, like big time designers who know what they're doing. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ yeah! Sure. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Oftentimes the scale of the shade is wrong for the lamp and it's so bad and so obvious. Or the other thing that kills me in magazine spreads and movies where you see the seam on a lampshade and they haven't turned it, just turn it to the back. Or another thing you see is ⁓ pendant lights or lanterns will be twisted because that's just how they were hung and they were installed. You just, you turn it.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: You turn it softly and gently and slowly until it settles and then it's good. It's straight. So little things like that, that, you know, it's the extra inch that people don't think of.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the amount of time that we spend on lighting, ⁓ as far as bringing in, putting it in CAD, every, ⁓ just about every shade that I do, I the dimensions for the particular ⁓ fixture and change up, depending on what I'm doing, I wanna make I don't have too many of the shade throughout the house, in the room, or what have you, but getting those dimensions right, and I also, ⁓ I know there are many schools of light. I don't like it when they sit too high, when you can see the socket apparatus drives me through up the wall. just, can't stand that. every, I mean, every lamp comes in, we change the cords. I don't like to see a plastic cord off the back of a table. ⁓ I want it to be a twisted fabric cord. Yeah, exactly.

Paloma Contreras: the sock, yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: You know, just all of those things, the finials, all the little details on the light, to me make a huge difference.

Paloma Contreras: Absolutely. I love that you get that granular. That makes such a difference. How about art?

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. I can't, I mean, here's another thing. I think we go big or we go home. I think for the big art, it should be expensive and you shouldn't chance on it. ⁓ Smaller pieces I think can be picked up in places like high point market and little things to add interest, little smaller pieces, but your big pieces, if you're using any of those, they need to be. They need to be well chosen and you don't need to skimp.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I agree. mean, and that doesn't mean necessarily that it has to be a blue chip piece. You know, not everyone, that's a very limited client that has that budget for like real art, ⁓ but should be original, it should be beautifully framed. I feel like this area, yes, I agree. Like the focal points, those you wanna spend more money on.

Caroline Gidiere: No. Yeah. Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: But then there's also so many great resources out there. There's so many great, talented, emerging artists. know in our shop we have represented so many of them over the years. And the price point on a lot of original art is really attainable. There's a lot of great artists that you can find on Instagram. ⁓ You know, you can still get original art. You can go to a vintage shop, an antique shop, and pick up a sweet framed piece to put in a bookshelf for... Lean on your kitchen counter, hang in the powder room. There's always so many resources ⁓ for getting, I think, good art at a good price point. So that's an area where you can really get creative and go as crazy as you want. Upholstery, I think I know what your answer will be on this.

Caroline Gidiere: I think you should buy the best upholstery that you can afford because you're going to have this piece, well, you should for a very long time. well, you know, certainly there are light. use rooms like your living room, but you still, this is where you want your nicest, your nicest pieces. And it just makes such a difference. It just, there's just the way it sits, the depth of the seat, the, the, cushion, the way it's constructed, the whole thing. it just, you just can't skimp on it. I know I had a client when I was first getting started, who was a good friend and She wanted me to help her with her living room and or her family room. And she wanted me to propose some inexpensive, like entry level custom upholstery, like semi-custom, let's call it semi-custom. And off of a manufacturing line, but nice that eight way hand tie, gonna stand on the test of time. She was like, I just don't wanna spend this much on these sofas. Will you go with me to this place in town and just pick some out? And I said, no, no, you can go and you can do that, but I will not go and do that because those sofas are so cheaply made. You're going to spend three quarters of the price that I'm proposing on those sofas and they will not make it. Those cushions are going to be misshapen. It's going to look, it's going to show its age and it's going to show its price within two, three years.

Paloma Contreras: Good. Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: Sure enough, two years later, she was like, you are so right. I wouldn't listen to you. I wanted to save the money. And she was like, now I'm putting these on the street and I'm buying quality, ⁓ quality sofas.

Paloma Contreras: yeah, and there's such a broad difference between custom well-made upholstery and something that's readily available like that. It's just, not comparable. It's not apples at all. I have a client, actually, a long-time client that we've done three houses for now, and she has a set of sofas, a pair of sofas that we did for her, the first project we worked on with her.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: and she called the other day and wants to reupholster them for the third time. But they're holding up beautifully and they're still comfortable. She still loves them. you you might reupholster a quality, you will reupholster a quality sofa over the years because you may decide you want to change things up and go with a different color or the upholstery starts to wear over time. You know, that's to be expected. Something that lasts 10 years.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: That's pretty good. And then for it to still be in good enough shape to say, I'm gonna invest several thousand dollars more, ⁓ $20,000 more, $25,000 more to reupholster this pair of sofas in another nice fabric. That really says a lot about the initial quality of the piece. I mean, that can be with you forever. Like, do you need to go crazy on a child's headboard or, you know.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: bed? No, because you're not sitting on it and their preferences are going to change and their room is going to change. But your sofa, know, chairs that you sit in every day, those things, absolutely, you should really be budgeting for.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-mm. Yeah, without question. And it's so much more earthly wise too, you know, because the same kind of resources go into both of them. But one of them lasts for 25, 30, even longer years. I've had the sofa in my living room for almost, you know, 15, 16 years. without any signs of degrading, because it doesn't get, you know, it's not the one in, I've already had to replace the den sofa, but the sofa in the living room is still going great guns. And I don't know when I'll have to replace it because it, I bought quality to begin with and classic lines. And so when I decide to change, if I do, I wouldn't have any reason not to work. And I also love it when a client has some, upholstery pieces that are high quality that we can save some money by re-upholstering as opposed to buying new. There's just no point if there's something quality that you can start with.

Paloma Contreras: But do you find that you really save money by reupholstering? I always tell clients, like, I would love to work with existing pieces if they make sense. I'm happy to have something that is yours, that has sort of progressed through your life and your story with you. But let's not look at that as a way to necessarily save because it isn't always, depending on the cost of the labor and the cost of the fabric and all of that. I mean, maybe slightly. Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: And reworking the cushions too. It is a little bit and every little bit helps too. And also I think sometimes you have to pick your battles and you have to be willing to roll with it with your clients. I think when they have pieces, if they feel like you're open to working with those, you know, and sometimes they do or like, ⁓ well that's so expensive and I didn't like it to begin with. So let's get a new one. You know what I'm saying? I sometimes

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: the process is worth it, you know, I don't know. just, if they're bad lines, I will tell them why I don't think we can use this fees. But if it's got good lines and it was quality to begin with, I don't mind, you know, maybe you save on each chair $1,000 or more, you know, but those things add up when you're over, the course of the house, know, there ways to save some money, just a little bit, but it goes in the pro, you know, plus column.

Paloma Contreras: Sure. Yes. What about occasional tables?

Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ Right. ⁓ These, you know, some of these can get so expensive. It's extraordinary to me how expensive a little drinks table can run. And this is where I'm always trying to look for ⁓ antiques that are less expensive. But, you know, I go back and forth. I order ⁓ tables.

Paloma Contreras: coffee tables, side tables, drink tables.

Caroline Gidiere: right, you know, that come off production lines as well. I'm always looking around. It is a tough sell when you're spending so much on a sofa and the lamp and the pillows and the stuff to then come in with an expensive occasional table. I just feel like I've already oversold, you know, so I do try that is the place where I try to find something that we're not breaking the bank because

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: They get overlooked anyway. They're usually not the room maker. And so having something quiet that holds the lamp beautifully is the right height, width, and you know, for the whatever. This is a place where I will try to save a little bit of money without it looking inexpensive.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I'm the same, I agree. sometimes it might be a really great coffee table, but your end tables are vintage or antique or, I mean, you can even go to like a catalog and they might have, they have some nice looking tables. And again, it's not upholstery, it's not wearing in the same way that upholstery does over time. So that's always an opportunity to save if you need to.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm, yeah. Let's try. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure, I do think they're important in like living rooms. There I wouldn't, I mean I think you can't come in with a, but you know, in your den, in the sitting area, in your bedroom, and places like that, these are places where you shouldn't spend a lot of money, I don't think, on your occasional tables.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Right, I agree. Okay, let's shift gear to fashion. How about denim? Is this the place where we're saving or splurging?

Caroline Gidiere: I've been down this large road. I have walked down that road and I am all the way back to my nineties aesthetic and have been, I probably have 15 pair or more of Levi's that probably none of them cost more than 45, 50, $60 a pair. And they're just classic. And these days you can get them in any length that you want and any... rinse. And I just like a classic denim. ⁓ I have a lot have several here. The last expensive denim that I bought ⁓ was Kate. And ⁓ I mean, having a pair of Kate today every now and then I'll bust them out. But it's when I'm looking for something that's a little quirky and not my workhorse day in day out every single day just about I wear Levi's to work.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: I mean, that is just the 501 original fit. Now I have a pair of curves coming. I want to see, cause it says it's relaxed through the thigh and you my thighs are the area, we all have an area of our body that we're trying to like minimize that. That's, that's it for me. So I'm wondering, do I need a little?

Paloma Contreras: What is your style that you like?

Caroline Gidiere: space in the thigh and not in the booty but in the thigh so I'm going to try this out. Outside of that it's just classic 501s and I have them most of them in three lengths that is ankle right you know to hit the top of my foot and then one that comes down and hits the back of my shoe on the floor so I've got all three lengths for yes how about you?

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's so important. Well, that's a classic. mean, it hasn't gone out of style for a reason. I'm somewhere in the middle. I mean, I'm not buying Kate denim, but most of my jeans are frame. So sort of middle of the road, I guess. And that's just because I feel like I have a high inseam, long legs, but I'm curvier. So it's just harder for me. I just, I'm picky about my denim and I have a harder time. So I like the frame.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Lehigh straight, I like a straight leg. And then they also have this jet set, like, it's not a flare, that sounds exaggerated, but it has a little bit more sort of volume in the ankle and it's very, very flattering. It's a pull-on, it comes in like two sizes. it's like size one is whatever range and size two is another range. And so those are really great for travel.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ nice. Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: and they don't have pockets. So like if you wear them with a jacket, you can't always tell you're wearing denim. And then I actually even like, I have a couple of pairs of gap jeans that I still like a lot. So, and those are a definite space, a safe.

Caroline Gidiere: They came out with a skinny, ⁓ long jean this fall. And I got it in, and I think I got them on sale and they were like $39 a pair when they were running a particular like promotion. And I got a pair of brown cords in that ⁓ skinny, ⁓ straight that it's somewhere between straight and skinny, but it's long. ⁓ And

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: They are so good looking that I bought them in dark and black as well. And so when you need that long, lean line, you know what I mean? With a blazer or something like that. I have a tough time with stretch. I'd almost like my denim, my Levi's to be tightened up where I have to lay down on the bed to get that top button. So that it like snatches that waist, honey.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. but then you don't wanna sit all day, cause that hurts.

Caroline Gidiere: Well, it stretches out, it stretches out over time, but yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, I'm moving around. I don't sit for too long, but yeah. But I mean, really, if someone told me from now on out, you cannot spend more than 69.99 on a pair of denim, I could make it. Oh, well, I already have plenty, but even if I had to start all over, and that's the one thing that I really collect, besides white blouses like you, I have a ton of those.

Paloma Contreras: You Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: I have a ton of denim, but that's what I wear every day.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, handbags.

Caroline Gidiere: This is where I think you should splurge. This and shoes.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I agree. think both of those, those are always a tell. You know, the rest of it can be a mix of high and low, but people are always gonna be able to tell. ⁓ You know, feel like shoes, handbags.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. You can you can wear. If you have on a nice pair of shoes and a nice handbag, everything else can, it just, like we talk about with other stuff, you can mix it high and low and you keep everybody guessing. Nobody can tell. It's the high that's mixed in there that throws the balance off where everybody assumes then that every other decision that you've made is probably high as well. At least it leaves them guessing. And I'm not talking about labels. I don't like labels. I don't like bags that, with some exceptions, I don't like conspicuous consumption. I'm just talking about quality craftsmanship.

Paloma Contreras: Right, mm-hmm, yeah, agreed. ⁓ What about on-trend pieces, like a barrel-leg jean or a chore jacket, barn jacket, there's lots of crop jackets happening right now. Are we going to Zara for that or are we doing like a nilly low tan? What's happening here?

Caroline Gidiere: Well, I'll tell you, like, I'm struggling with this leather bomber jacket right now because I want it to be me and I'm just not sure it is. And they are so expensive. And before I drop all of that, I'm so sorry, that's my little puppy. ⁓ Before I drop all that money on a piece that I'm not sure that is me that I'm gonna wear. I bought one for $138 in pleather from Zara. Now, all the environmentalists are gonna come for me, but as long as I keep it and wear it for a long period, I think it looks fine, but I just trend pieces I would not waste a lot of money on. And let's just say, like, Isabella Parra, for instance, was wearing those barrel-leg jeans three years ago. They look great on her body.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: portion for her, they work well, work with her on the job. I can imagine 20 years from now, I run into Isabella on the street, she's still gonna have on those bare-leg jeans, know, because they just work for her and her personality. ⁓ And that's true of any kind of trend. ⁓ But outside of that, anything that's a trend, I say don't spend any money on

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Yeah, we agree there. I mean, in terms of the denim, I think there's a lot of schools of thought based on, you wear, is it okay to wear this style of denim if it's not on trend right now? But I feel like it's more important and maybe it's something that comes with age, just like the comfort factor to dress for your body and dress, wear what works for you, what you feel comfortable in, what you feel good in, and don't worry about like what leg style is in at the moment.

Caroline Gidiere: Absolutely. Yeah. There's so much in this younger generation and I feel like my grandmom talking about younger people, and maybe it's always been the case that younger people like we were talking about from 20 to 30, but these younger girls do not have as much of a sense of what body they're working with these days. I'm like, this is, this, this does not work for you. how can you look in the mirror and not be like, hmm, I know this is in style, but, and probably it's just that at that age, you're really not doing a lot of self evaluation beyond, do I have what everybody else is wearing?

Paloma Contreras: Right, think that you've hit the nail on the head. I think that's exactly it. And it's like, okay, I'm wearing what's on trend, but you're not analyzing about analyzing what works on your body. Like I can't do, I I don't, I mean, maybe I could, but I'm not going to. The like big wide jean on the bottom with like the skinny top on top. That's not my look. I do the reverse. Does it make me look like an old lady? Maybe, that's okay. I feel good. I feel fine.

Caroline Gidiere: No. Yeah. Who can wear these wide leg jeans? see everybody wearing them. And I'm like, honey, no. It's just, it's not purport, I mean, you have to be very thin with a thin waist and a long leg to wear a wide leg ⁓ jean successfully. I do think you can wear a wide leg slat because it's going to

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: drop straight from your hips down, you know, and you'll have it tailored and all that kind of stuff. mean, I think, you know, that's a classic, but a jean that's tight around, you know, like denim fits tighter and then tight on the thighs and then their wide leg. It's just, it's a hard look. It's a hard look to pull off unless you have a certain body and then most of us don't have that body.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Right, that's true. Well, someone that did have an amazing body. Let's switch gears. What are we watching? I think we're both watching the same thing. Love story on effects. I know a lot of people have different opinions and I think, so I ⁓ was born in the 80s, I was a teenager in the 90s. So my recollection, I remember,

Caroline Gidiere: Ha! Yeah. Yes, all the...

Paloma Contreras: the headlines, I remember seeing them in People Magazine, John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bissette. ⁓ I remember the tragedy of it all, but I'm not invested in it in the same sense as someone who was working in fashion in the 90s in New York because I was in middle school or high school in suburban Houston at the time. So I think the people who like lived that era and are more contemporaries of theirs are

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: looking at the show through a more critical lens. ⁓ I'm just loving, I'm loving it. think they cast these two people, Sarah Pigeon and Paul Anthony Kelly, so well. He's beautiful. They're beautiful to look at and they have undeniable chemistry. Whether or not the portrayal is exact or as true, I feel like I'm enjoying it so much regardless. Like there's just nothing to watch.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: for me at the moment. And this is like, it's hitting on all cylinders. The interiors are so fun to see, because we're going back to the 90s and it's all about minimalism and the finishes are silver and like the color palettes are not what they are now. And the fashion obviously, like we're seeing Carolyn Bissette getting her start in fashion PR working at Calvin Klein's offices. you know, she has.

Caroline Gidiere: Sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: than like you were talking about your style being very rooted in the 90s. Very similar style. Like it's all about minimalism, classic, like architectural, unfussy, but always so chic and put together. ⁓ it's just, it's been fun for me to watch the soundtrack. Don't even get me started on the soundtrack. On that first episode where they went out on PM Dawn's ⁓ set of drifts on Memory Bliss, I was just like, yes, like I just remember all that music so well. Sophie B. Hawkins, Damn I Wish I Was Your Lover.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am loving it. I lived all of that. And so I do have a more critical eye, at least of her.

Paloma Contreras: and then that reminds me of 90210, like all the things I shouldn't have been watching when I was that age. I'm really enjoying it to say the least. How about you? Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: in that I think as far as her hair and her ⁓ wardrobe, ⁓ I'm fine with all of that. I think they've done a great job on it. I think they've nailed it. And the interiors. ⁓ I just, mean, obviously I don't know just like they don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm just guessing as well, but just based on

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: The clips that I've seen, the videos of her and watching her so closely, the way Sarah Pigeon plays her is so over the top and it's so just her hair is, you know, like, and she leans on everything. It's just too much for me. I'm like wondering, I keep asking myself, I wonder if in person in the office, she was always

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: splayed out on a desk, you know, sideways. Like, is like, was she known for doing that? Because it does. And like up against the walls and all sorts of stuff. It's like, and I haven't made it past the first episode only because it's something that I have to watch by myself because it's not anything Steven's going to watch. And so in the evenings when we're watching things together and we're in the middle of two shows,

Paloma Contreras: It feels so unnatural to me, right?

Caroline Gidiere: So like when I go away this weekend, I guess if I was flying, but anyway, it's something I'm gonna have to work through on the side, my side hustle. ⁓ So I'm only in that first episode. And a lot of times if they start shooting with that first episode, ⁓ characters are still trying to find their personality of the person that they're portraying, particularly historical fiction. So I get, I mean, I'm making space for it, but I feel like he is doing a great job.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: feel like, what's her name? Who's playing Jackie? ⁓ Naomi Watts. She got that accent. mean, she may not look just like her, but she nailed the accent the way that she talked. ⁓ Yeah. And so I'm delighted by it. And Ryan Murphy is a hit or a miss for me. don't always love everything, but I feel like ⁓ this is a really, really, really good one.

Paloma Contreras: ⁓ Naomi Watts. She nailed it. Right. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's been really good. I've been enjoying it. Well, that's all for today. I'm excited because we get to see each other this weekend. We're going to be in Thomasville, Georgia for the Thomasville Antique Show and our dear friend Brian Huffman will be there too. So it's sure to be fun. I'm not looking forward to the travel. It's going to be kind of a schlatt for both of us, it sounds like. You're driving all the way there. I'm flying from Houston to Atlanta and then Tallahassee. And I think it's two hours from Tallahassee, two and a half hours from Tallahassee to Thomasville.

Caroline Gidiere: Okay. Yay, I can't wait with Brian.

Paloma Contreras: But I'm very excited to meet all the lovely people of Thomasville, Georgia and to see you guys.

Caroline Gidiere: I can't wait. I hear it's a blast. Brian has been there before and he said it was incredibly lovely. ⁓ Wonderful southern hospitality and a lot of fun. I love an antique show. ⁓ It's five hours for me to drive and I have to go through Atlanta anyway. And with TSA down, I was just like, forget it. I'm just gonna hop in the car and drive. And ⁓ that way also, ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: You and I both are speaking. You're speaking on Friday and I'm speaking on Saturday. I love to rehearse, ⁓ like do a out loud walk through at least once if not twice and then I can just kind of let it go and not worry about it until I walk on stage. It'll come right out. So it's kind of a nice ⁓ moment, quiet moment by yourself to work through it. So I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait to see you.

Paloma Contreras: Well, thank you all for joining us. Don't forget to send us your questions to like, rate, review, and subscribe. And follow us, of course, at the install podcast at Paloma Contreras Design and at Caroline Jadir of Design. Thanks for spending time with us today. This is the install and we'll see you next week.