#355 - The "Fudd" Training Secret Every Modern Shooter Needs

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Hi there and welcome to the Guns Podcast US, one of the world's biggest gun talk programs.

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I'm your host Brent Wheat, welcoming you to yet another discussion about all the fun stuff
in the great world of shooting.

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I'm joined of course by my co-host Roy Huntington and we're going to have a fun chat
today.

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Well, uh Roy, sometimes are frequently get accused of being fuds and we completely embrace
that because to me that just says we've got experience.

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Even though we were up to speed more than some folks might give us credit for but today
we're going to talk about shoot like it's 1955 and What I meant by that is we've talked

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about this a little bit before but we're gonna do a deep dive today That's the idea that
if you're a high-speed low drag operator, you know Almost a tier one operator kind of guy

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or gal you still need to do some bullseye shooting and I'm sure there's a few

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Bullseye shooting.

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Well, that's what grandpa did.

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Yeah, you're exactly right.

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And that's the best they had at that point.

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But bullseye shooting is still an important part of your training.

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And if you go to any of the major shooting academies, gunsight or whomever, uh your first
shots are probably going to be on a bullseye target, because marksmanship is pretty

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important.

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We're going to explain that more in depth.

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So anyway, Roy, how you doing?

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And uh welcome.

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fellow fuzz.

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um It was always interesting because a lot of the younger shooters just say, we're just
fuzz.

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You don't know anything.

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And I always just smile and say, well, that's good.

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That's because you say that because you don't know anything.

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oh So bullseye shooting.

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I think you were a bullseye competitor at one point and there's guys that still do that.

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And it's pretty amazing when you see a guy that's really good.

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especially with a single action or a revolver, they can cock and go single action.

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You're talking one whole groups there and that's that's great marksmanship.

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And I know the counter argument.

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Well, in a gunfight, you don't have time to blah, blah, blah, blah.

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But I think it's been amply proven and it shouldn't be even a point of discussion.

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If you can shoot a group like that calmly on the range under pressure when people are
trying to kill you or your friends or family, your group size will get this big.

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So if you start out that big,

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Now we're talking a group size this big and you're starting to miss and the bullets have
the bad guy's name on the front, your name on the back and they never fails.

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They go into that bus load of nuns and orphans that are going by the bad person.

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And there's that whole idea that if you, they're doing something bad enough to shoot, you
ought to do something good enough on your end that you anchor them right then and there

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and bad shooting doesn't do that.

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So anyway, that's kind of the thesis Roy.

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Bullseye shooting, no discussion has a place in the world of CCW training.

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So there you go, run with it.

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I spent five years shooting what's called PPC shooting, uh practical police combat.

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There's other monikers for it.

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It's basically double action revolver shooting from a holster, uh slow fire, a little bit
faster fire.

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None of it is really particularly speedy, you know.

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So there's no splits, you know, or anything like that.

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uh But it.

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Emphasize precision marksmanship.

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And so we went from seven yards to 15 to 25 to 50 yards.

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so a really good PPC shooter shooting a 38 special would fill in the blank revolver with
target wide cutters could shoot an inch and a half.

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pretty commonly at 50 yards.

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So think about that for a minute, right?

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You know, it's almost like, I don't know what half MOA at your one MOA at 50 yards.

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So uh with a double action revolver shooting double action.

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And the people who I knew there tended to of course be gun guys, right.

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And they're all cops.

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And over the years, I knew some of them who had gotten into shootings on duty.

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And you know, the really peculiar thing was the, the PPC shooters, the guys who really
could shoot well there on the range also shot really well when the chips were down and I

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know what a corollary.

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I mean, what a corollary.

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I mean, it was just like.

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Gun cones out three quick shots.

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It's over.

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Thank you very much.

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You know,

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Meanwhile, other people are emptying revolvers and going to backup guns and bullets are
hitting the nuns in the school bus, you know, and yeah.

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I mean, when I was a policeman on the San Diego police department, we had transitioned to
auto pistols and there was a guy on the SWAT team, real quiet guy, really nice guy.

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Uh, he, but he worked in the field.

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they had something called a PRT primary response team.

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So that was patrol guys who had SWAT gear in their trunk.

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And so they're on patrol.

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They're doing regular patrol work, but if something happens, they could respond
immediately and kind of hold the fort if necessary.

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So he was one of those guys quick to volunteer to take calls.

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If you were out on a call and you look around, there he is covering you, you know, that
kind of a guy.

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And, but he was a real quiet shooter.

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And, uh, I used to see him at the range all the time, cause I was at the range all the
time and you would see him over in the corner.

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And he would be set up maybe at seven yards and doing drawing from the holster, two shots,
clear the gun, put it back in the holster, two shots.

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And then you'd see him move back to maybe 15 yards and then move back to 25 yards.

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uh shooting very slowly, very carefully.

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His target would be very well centered.

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Right.

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And he got into a shooting and it was textbook, you know,

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I mean, it was about a 25 yard shooting.

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It one shot, 10 ring, took the guy down immediately.

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Uh, the other officers who were there, he said, they said he was standing there and he
just drew his gun, brought it up, squeezed the round off.

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was done.

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There was no hysterics.

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There was no running and jumping there, you know, no mag dumps.

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And so I think that illustrates what we're talking about more than anything.

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I mean, there was a man who understood the importance of accurate shooting and you just
don't get that by going to the indoor range and putting your target up at seven yards and

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shooting 200 rounds into it as fast as you can pull the trigger.

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I don't know, we've done this several times.

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We've had this conversation and

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The people who get it, get it because they comment and they say, you're exactly right.

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You know, best thing I ever did was learn bullseye shooting, you know?

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Uh, and then you see the newer people say, yeah, well, that's baloney because if you know,
it happens fast and if you don't know how to act fast and all that, and it's like, yeah,

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well, you'll draw the gun really, really, really fast and you'll miss really, really,
really fast.

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Exactly.

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Well, at gun site, they often tell you, you cannot miss fast enough.

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You know, um,

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but I was gonna say Roy, I carry a silver dollar in my pocket.

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Just it's my little good luck piece.

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I'll bet you that silver dollar, we get at least five YouTube comments.

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Well, that's gonna get you killed.

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You don't know what you're talking about.

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it's like, Roy explained it pretty clearly.

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We're not saying that dump all of your other CCW high-speed load drag, run, jump, know,
suspend from your ankles and all that.

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We're just saying you need to, uh

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especially when you're practicing on your own or training on your own, some slow,
deliberate, intentionally accurate fire at different ranges is really going to help you.

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I've seen a lot of your, you're the, you, go ahead.

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I've seen a lot of competition shooters, high end internationally famous competition
shooters.

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And I've been with them and we've trained with them and stuff like that.

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And I mean, almost invariably like we're like,

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at an event or something, and they're talking to the writers or doing this and everyone's
shooting fast and we're shooting steel plates and everybody's having a good time and he's

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shooting really steel.

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Invariably, at some point during that period, we're on the range, you will look over in
the corner and professional shooter, whoever filled in the blank, will be standing there,

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very carefully aiming, shooting precision shots onto a target.

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made 25 yards, you know, no fuss, no must just standing there, load a magazine, take his
time.

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You see him get really good sight picture.

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see him be comfortable, stand up straight, head up straight, bring the gun up to his eyes,
shooting very precision shots.

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know, meanwhile, all we idiots are running around shooting steel plates under our leg, you
know, and rolling in the dirt and all this stuff.

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But these guys can do that, but they can do that because they know how to do what he's
doing.

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You know, exactly.

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You know, and I think it's a tragedy that like our state, the uh standard uh police
officer qualification, when I went through, you had to shoot 50 yards and we were shooting

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with uh those wheel guns, those things that go round and round.

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you got anybody's got to admit that shooting a double action revolver at 50 yards is not
easier than shooting a uh modern, you know, double action, uh double stack nine

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millimeter.

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So we were shooting harder, harder to operate gun and we're still getting the hits.

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And now that's gone completely away.

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you know, shootings do happen up close very quick, but if you don't have that tool in your
toolbox, we're always talking about, sometimes the guys across the street or down the

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block and he's still shooting at you.

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So you need to do something.

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Obviously you'll get out of the line of fire, but if you can't get out of the line of the
fire, and I know one incident, incident,

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where a police officer, the guy was uh over, I think it was a Jeep Cherokee or, know, a
large bodied V an old one full of steel.

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And the guy had a AR and he's cranking rounds.

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And what he ended up doing was skipping rounds off the deck under the vehicle, took his
ankles out from underneath him.

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And then they closed.

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And as he said, very understated, he terminated the encounter uh at close range.

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But the fact that he could get those rounds in there from uh like

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diagonally down the block behind other cover.

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He was trying to avoid being shot by this rifle.

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And, know, it's kind of that old uh Danny Glover thing, kind of the, here we go.

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And took, you know, like one or two shots and the guy goes down.

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That's because he had the ability to take that deliberate, accurate shot.

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And it ended the confrontation that uh in the situation I'm talking about that he'd
already killed a police officer with that rifle.

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So, well, I have two things.

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First is Torn Smith, who is a

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probably the smartest trainer I've ever known in my life.

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Said something and it's my mantra, I think, when I try to teach people is slow is smooth
and smooth is fast.

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It's fast.

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Yep.

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And people just don't understand that.

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Because when I teach people here sometimes and we shoot at 22 very slowly,

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And they want to be shooting fast right away.

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You know, and I always say, no, we're going to do this for a little while.

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Just calm down.

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We're going to do this for a little while.

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And then I had that conversation.

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So when you, when you learn to do this, when you learn to hit, when you learn to be
smooth, when you learn uh firearm manipulation skills, how to load, how to unload, how to

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holster, how to reholster, you know, uh, when, you become smooth at that stuff, then you
will become faster.

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And.

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But people tend to go from, just bought my new gun to shooting as many bullets as they
can, as fast as they can at the five yard line at the indoor range.

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Yeah.

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And, and it's a terrible mistake.

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So the other thing that it was interesting, I was doing a little research the other day,
and since the advent of red dot sites with law enforcement, I could not find any

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information showing where the percentage of hits by law enforcement have increased.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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In other words, one would think, we have this really cool new TV set, red dot site.

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You know, it's supposed to make you do everything in the world for you.

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And, uh, I apparently, at least from the data that I could find, I did not see any
indication that the, the rate of hits have increased.

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So, uh, if, you're listening to this, you have access to that data, please leave a
comment.

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I'd love to just hear what you have to say, but.

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That goes back to what we're talking about.

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And I think that there is definitely a decrease in focus on accurate shooting in police
training.

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So I've certainly seen that be interesting to see what Eric has to say, but you're right
about gunsight.

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mean, when I went to Thunder Ranch the first time, the first half day, all we did was
learn how to load our magazine, chamber around, put it in the holster, draw safely.

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maybe one shot, maybe two shots on the target, very precise, you know, uh, reholster,
think about what you just did.

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Why am I shooting low?

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You know, that kind of stuff.

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uh, yeah, Clint had no patience for people who wanted to be swatologist on the beginning
of the first day, know, cause it just, but you know, the, the,

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One of the times I was at gun site, typically every class will start out with slow fire
and then they'll have most of time they'll have you do a drill where you put one round on

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top of the other.

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And I remember, and I can't think who the student was, but we were shooting that and he
was just getting exasperated because, and we're only five to seven yards, but his shots

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were that far apart.

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And the majority of students were either very close or almost, you know, one hole in it.

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And he was so exasperated that, this is dumb.

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And that's what I tend to see among shooters is if you cannot achieve that performance,
then you say it's dumb and you start justifying it.

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Well, I'll never need to do that.

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Well, you're right.

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You may never need to put two rounds right in the same hole, but if you have that
capability down the road where you get into a, you know, uh a 10 foot gunfight and bullets

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are flying.

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Instead of flying from you, there's gonna be two or three because you're accurate and you
put the bad guy down.

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um You know, that's what's notorious about bad guys in shootings, as we often say, they
don't care about hitting you.

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They just wanna put rounds down range and think about, you know, I don't think I've ever
seen a study about this.

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The amount of the hit percentage of bad guys is gotta be pretty low.

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And the amount of bystanders taken out, you know, they're shooting at the cop right here,
but they hit the nuns and orphans in the bus and all that stuff.

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because they don't care, they don't practice, they don't train.

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And then the flip side of that is when you read about these terrible situations like uh
the Ed with the shooting, the FBI Miami shooting, um those guys were trained and they, I

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mean, I hate to say, but they did a good job because they trained and they worried about
getting bullets on targets.

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So even the bad guys that know getting on targets and accuracy are important under stress.

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They went out and they trained and it unfortunately in this case showed, but uh you know,
I don't, I guess what I'm trying to get here is I don't understand what any debate of this

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is.

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Again, I'll keep saying it because I know we'll get the comments.

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00:16:24,549 --> 00:16:32,371
We're not saying this is the only way to train and you should stand, I love those old
pictures where they stand with their hand on their hip and one arm and all that.

204
00:16:32,371 --> 00:16:38,025
We're not saying do that, but we're saying you better be incorporating some precision,
bullseye shooting.

205
00:16:38,025 --> 00:16:41,026
in even your high speed, low drags, ECW training.

206
00:16:41,026 --> 00:16:42,307
I say you should do that.

207
00:16:42,307 --> 00:16:45,908
What those old guys used to do with one hand shooting too.

208
00:16:45,908 --> 00:16:54,812
mean, it's fun and it teaches you that because someday you're going to shoot with one hand
and then you shoot with your off hand.

209
00:16:54,812 --> 00:16:55,492
Right.

210
00:16:55,492 --> 00:17:00,714
I like to call it weak hand because it's not necessarily weak, you know, but just shoot
with your off hand.

211
00:17:00,754 --> 00:17:02,415
It's harder than you think.

212
00:17:02,455 --> 00:17:05,786
But like anything, it's when you, something happens, you rework to training.

213
00:17:05,786 --> 00:17:07,087
If you've never trained.

214
00:17:07,087 --> 00:17:09,438
That means you revert to nothing, right?

215
00:17:09,438 --> 00:17:11,718
So if you've never done that, you revert to nothing.

216
00:17:11,718 --> 00:17:14,139
There's two things I like to teach shooters to do.

217
00:17:14,139 --> 00:17:16,480
Uh, and they're real simple.

218
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:23,181
Anyone in the entire shooting community can do this and it will cost you exactly nothing.

219
00:17:23,542 --> 00:17:27,137
And that is that first is the drill that you're talking about.

220
00:17:27,137 --> 00:17:35,435
Uh, put a blank piece of typing paper up at five yards or whatever you're happy with, you
know, uh, and put a shot on the target.

221
00:17:35,941 --> 00:17:41,125
Now your next shot, you have to hit that shot and then see where you come in.

222
00:17:41,125 --> 00:17:46,068
And if you don't come, you know, if it's low and to the right, stop and think, what was I
doing?

223
00:17:46,068 --> 00:17:47,509
Did I press the trigger right?

224
00:17:47,509 --> 00:17:49,220
You know, was my sight picture good?

225
00:17:49,220 --> 00:17:52,493
You know, was I in a hurry that I have my eyes closed?

226
00:17:52,493 --> 00:17:52,893
Right.

227
00:17:52,893 --> 00:18:04,821
You know, uh, and then, so now then put another shot on the target and, and see if you can
kiss that shot, uh, because it's teaching you trigger control and sight picture and

228
00:18:04,821 --> 00:18:09,663
grip consistency and stance consistency and it's teaching you all that kind of stuff.

229
00:18:09,663 --> 00:18:10,854
Cause you've got to slow down.

230
00:18:10,854 --> 00:18:13,185
Cause if you can't do that, you'll never be a good shot.

231
00:18:13,185 --> 00:18:24,770
The other thing I like to do is, is to get a piece of typing paper and get a, a, a lid
from a pickle jar or something and do a whole bunch of circles in lines on this typing

232
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:25,110
paper.

233
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:29,492
Maybe you've got four rows by four rows or something like that.

234
00:18:29,492 --> 00:18:32,853
So you end up with a piece of typing paper with all these old circles on it.

235
00:18:33,701 --> 00:18:36,502
So put it up at five yards or seven yards.

236
00:18:36,543 --> 00:18:39,124
And I like to do this with a 22 pistol.

237
00:18:39,124 --> 00:18:42,166
It doesn't matter revolver or semi-automatic or something like that.

238
00:18:42,166 --> 00:18:50,150
But what you want to do is slowly you want to put one shot on each one of those circles,
just one shot.

239
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:52,711
And the beauty of that is that it makes you slow down.

240
00:18:52,711 --> 00:18:53,952
There's no hurry.

241
00:18:53,952 --> 00:18:56,013
There's no clock timing, anything.

242
00:18:56,013 --> 00:18:59,435
But when you shoot like that, you can see where that bullet hits.

243
00:18:59,435 --> 00:19:03,407
So if you shoot 10 shots on one of these, then now you don't have no idea where you're
hitting.

244
00:19:03,407 --> 00:19:04,117
Right.

245
00:19:04,117 --> 00:19:06,308
So one shot.

246
00:19:06,308 --> 00:19:14,211
now when you shoot six or eight or one page of this, if all of your shots are low left,
then you know something's going on, right?

247
00:19:14,211 --> 00:19:15,542
You have to look into it.

248
00:19:15,542 --> 00:19:17,243
If your shots are well centered.

249
00:19:17,243 --> 00:19:17,580
Okay.

250
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:18,683
You're doing pretty good.

251
00:19:18,683 --> 00:19:20,264
Now you have a choice.

252
00:19:20,264 --> 00:19:22,085
You can keep repeating that.

253
00:19:22,085 --> 00:19:23,215
You can use the same target.

254
00:19:23,215 --> 00:19:23,695
That's fine.

255
00:19:23,695 --> 00:19:24,616
Keep repeating that.

256
00:19:24,616 --> 00:19:26,126
Do it five times, 10 times.

257
00:19:26,126 --> 00:19:27,227
Doesn't matter what.

258
00:19:27,227 --> 00:19:31,028
So now though, you can, if you feel comfortable, you can up the game.

259
00:19:31,028 --> 00:19:33,275
You can either speed up a little bit.

260
00:19:33,275 --> 00:19:44,148
you know, just try to move a little bit faster, you know, or you could go top right,
bottom left, top left, bottom right, right?

261
00:19:44,148 --> 00:19:47,129
Practice moving your gun like that and taking those shots.

262
00:19:47,129 --> 00:19:49,020
But I promise you that there's no rules.

263
00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:54,851
So just make up whatever rules you want to as you go along, but it costs you just the cost
of the ammunition.

264
00:19:55,231 --> 00:19:57,912
And I promise you, it will make you a better shooter.

265
00:19:57,912 --> 00:20:01,413
And then now suddenly when you're at the weekend match,

266
00:20:01,573 --> 00:20:07,174
and there's a torso steel plate up at 15 yards, you're going to laugh.

267
00:20:07,315 --> 00:20:08,795
Cause it's like, really?

268
00:20:08,795 --> 00:20:09,655
Is this it?

269
00:20:09,655 --> 00:20:11,296
This is it?

270
00:20:11,296 --> 00:20:11,816
Yeah.

271
00:20:11,816 --> 00:20:14,357
I don't have to like hit between the eyes.

272
00:20:14,357 --> 00:20:16,397
just have to hit this torso.

273
00:20:19,118 --> 00:20:27,490
Well, you know, looking at the course of fire, going back to gun site, cause I've spent,
I've been to a lot of training academies.

274
00:20:27,490 --> 00:20:30,661
if you Roy, I've spent most of my time at gun site.

275
00:20:30,713 --> 00:20:38,396
What always happens is we start, you know, they'll start you with single shots, maybe do a
single headshot, and then you start doing the two shots.

276
00:20:38,396 --> 00:20:43,278
And then they'll start saying, okay, put two shots center mass as fast as you can go.

277
00:20:43,598 --> 00:20:46,720
And what happens is your group size starts increasing.

278
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:55,103
And at some point when it's bigger than, you know, kind of a double fist thing, it may
still be in the, the K zone, but it's getting too big.

279
00:20:55,103 --> 00:20:59,747
They'll say, okay, we now know that's too fast for you at your current skill level today.

280
00:20:59,747 --> 00:21:01,598
So slow down a little bit.

281
00:21:01,698 --> 00:21:07,080
if you, they say, okay, go and you put two holes and it's one, they'll say, you need to go
faster.

282
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:17,974
Okay, you can do that, but you need to speed it up and it will invariably open up your
group size, but you have to be cognizant of when that group size is getting to be a little

283
00:21:17,974 --> 00:21:18,555
bit too big.

284
00:21:18,555 --> 00:21:23,167
So that's kind of a good indicator to help you decide when am I shooting too fast?

285
00:21:23,167 --> 00:21:24,717
When am I shooting too slow?

286
00:21:24,717 --> 00:21:29,209
Cause I will fully agree that standing there and doing the Danny Glover,

287
00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:34,777
will probably get you hurt in a real gunfight, but it's this you've got to strike this
balance.

288
00:21:34,777 --> 00:21:38,541
And we've said that countless times as has every other trainer in the world.

289
00:21:38,541 --> 00:21:40,732
It's not a A and B thing.

290
00:21:40,732 --> 00:21:48,729
It's a, it's a balancing act and going a little faster, a little worse marksmanship, going
a little slower, better marksmanship, but you're at a greater risk.

291
00:21:48,729 --> 00:21:53,603
that's a, that's a good way of looking or finding where your speed lies.

292
00:21:53,603 --> 00:21:55,454
And again, it's the idea, it's that day.

293
00:21:55,454 --> 00:21:58,815
So maybe you're not having a good day and you're not shooting well.

294
00:21:58,815 --> 00:22:00,235
So, okay, I got to slow down.

295
00:22:00,235 --> 00:22:02,866
Maybe you're having a great day and it's like, Hey, I'm doing great.

296
00:22:02,866 --> 00:22:03,246
Okay.

297
00:22:03,246 --> 00:22:06,437
Speed it up a little bit and find out where your outer limits lie.

298
00:22:06,437 --> 00:22:07,527
you're exactly right.

299
00:22:07,527 --> 00:22:09,418
hear people, they counter that.

300
00:22:09,418 --> 00:22:12,299
They counter when I say, you need to be precise.

301
00:22:12,299 --> 00:22:16,140
They say, well, no, in a shootout, you know, you're going to be moving really fast.

302
00:22:16,140 --> 00:22:21,141
And then when you shoot it, the more you hit him all over his body, the better it is.

303
00:22:21,425 --> 00:22:27,510
Well, I'm not going to disagree that if you have hits all over someone's torso, that's
probably going to be a bad day for them.

304
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:29,651
know, but yeah.

305
00:22:29,852 --> 00:22:40,411
But the challenge for me is if you can't shoot better than that, then it goes back to what
we were talking about.

306
00:22:40,411 --> 00:22:49,788
So if that's how you do and now there are five yards further away, well, then now you're
missing the target on a lot of your shots.

307
00:22:49,788 --> 00:22:50,849
And so.

308
00:22:51,037 --> 00:22:52,278
I don't agree with that.

309
00:22:52,278 --> 00:22:59,084
think, I mean, if you've got a palm size center chest group, he's pretty much dead right
there.

310
00:22:59,084 --> 00:22:59,644
Right.

311
00:22:59,644 --> 00:23:00,135
Yeah.

312
00:23:00,135 --> 00:23:08,191
Uh, you know, if you have shots spread all over the body, some of those are
inconsequential and not life threatening and not anything.

313
00:23:08,191 --> 00:23:08,612
Right.

314
00:23:08,612 --> 00:23:12,034
So you better to just do the best you can.

315
00:23:12,034 --> 00:23:16,218
And the only way you get that is by slowing down and doing precision shooting.

316
00:23:16,218 --> 00:23:18,119
And there's nothing wrong with that.

317
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,601
And anyone who thinks you can go from.

318
00:23:20,623 --> 00:23:29,020
buy your first gun to wildcat combat shooting with no steps in between is just wrong.

319
00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:30,461
They're fooling themselves.

320
00:23:30,461 --> 00:23:31,282
Yeah.

321
00:23:31,282 --> 00:23:31,983
Yeah.

322
00:23:31,983 --> 00:23:34,004
Well, we've, you kind of made that point.

323
00:23:34,004 --> 00:23:34,735
We've all seen it.

324
00:23:34,735 --> 00:23:36,986
Guy walks up, especially on the indoor range.

325
00:23:36,986 --> 00:23:39,789
does this massive mag dump, maybe two mags.

326
00:23:39,789 --> 00:23:44,653
does a really wonderful, you know, a speed mag exchange and all that.

327
00:23:44,653 --> 00:23:49,597
And then the target comes back and he's, he's filled the center box.

328
00:23:49,741 --> 00:23:56,177
uh, you know, on the target and, he's very satisfied with himself, but that, what did that
show?

329
00:23:56,177 --> 00:23:59,349
He kept them in, you know, 24 by, by 18.

330
00:23:59,349 --> 00:24:01,061
That's not good shooting.

331
00:24:01,061 --> 00:24:01,601
I'm sorry.

332
00:24:01,601 --> 00:24:04,543
It's just not, it may have been fast shooting, but it's not good shooting.

333
00:24:04,543 --> 00:24:12,540
So, uh, you know, same thing, uh, last time I was on indoor range was at the shot show in
January with a bunch of media folks.

334
00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:14,021
And there was, it's funny.

335
00:24:14,021 --> 00:24:18,571
I was, I was with some folks from well-known training academies and

336
00:24:18,571 --> 00:24:20,702
and some competitive shooters.

337
00:24:20,702 --> 00:24:25,344
And when they're handed a new gun, the first thing they do is slow, deliberate fire.

338
00:24:25,344 --> 00:24:32,127
They're, checking the accuracy and they'll maybe do that two shot drill and do a headshot
and another headshot.

339
00:24:32,127 --> 00:24:34,678
And then now it's time to go to maybe the second magazine.

340
00:24:34,678 --> 00:24:35,798
Now we'll do a mag dump.

341
00:24:35,798 --> 00:24:38,209
And it's all generally like that stuff.

342
00:24:38,209 --> 00:24:41,350
So those are the guys that can do all this stuff.

343
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:42,791
And what do they start with?

344
00:24:42,791 --> 00:24:45,272
They start with slow, accurate fire.

345
00:24:45,272 --> 00:24:48,373
think that ought to teach you right there that

346
00:24:48,579 --> 00:24:50,110
That's what the experts do.

347
00:24:50,110 --> 00:24:52,182
ah It's not a video game.

348
00:24:52,182 --> 00:24:55,635
It's not YouTube warriors.

349
00:24:55,635 --> 00:25:01,619
These are the guys that have actually been there, done that, had the training, taught tens
of thousands of people.

350
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:02,911
That's how they do it.

351
00:25:02,911 --> 00:25:09,226
They do slow, deliberate fire to kind of check themselves, check their interface with the
gun, see how the gun's doing.

352
00:25:09,226 --> 00:25:12,028
And then we'll go to a little faster and see kind of where we go with that.

353
00:25:12,028 --> 00:25:13,779
So, well, these are good enough for them.

354
00:25:13,779 --> 00:25:14,660
Good enough for everybody.

355
00:25:14,660 --> 00:25:16,151
And these are people that's illustration.

356
00:25:16,151 --> 00:25:17,712
These are people who,

357
00:25:18,805 --> 00:25:22,126
can shoot up to the ability of the gun.

358
00:25:22,627 --> 00:25:28,669
know, and so, I mean, you know, I do that if I get a new gun, first thing I do is a
precision shot or two.

359
00:25:28,669 --> 00:25:35,422
see, where's the sites regulated or if I'm somebody shooting way off the target here and
they say, well, the sites are need to be adjusted.

360
00:25:35,422 --> 00:25:39,533
always take the gun and do a couple of shots and find out where it's really hitting.

361
00:25:39,834 --> 00:25:47,897
when in 70s, 1976 or so, uh, it was the beginning of the combat matches, right.

362
00:25:47,897 --> 00:25:49,537
I lived in Southern California.

363
00:25:49,537 --> 00:25:51,628
It was an ocean side police combat league.

364
00:25:51,628 --> 00:25:57,438
So in fact, remember I sent you a video, an eight millimeter of me shooting.

365
00:25:57,438 --> 00:26:00,761
And I was shooting PPC.

366
00:26:00,761 --> 00:26:07,602
The vast majority of the people who shooting these casual weekend matches had no
experience other than this.

367
00:26:07,602 --> 00:26:09,903
So they would show up and said, wow, this is cool.

368
00:26:09,903 --> 00:26:11,143
I'm going to shoot this.

369
00:26:11,143 --> 00:26:14,754
You know, so they had a wide cross section of different guns and all that kind of stuff.

370
00:26:14,754 --> 00:26:15,545
I've.

371
00:26:16,969 --> 00:26:20,791
kind of one all the time for a long time.

372
00:26:20,991 --> 00:26:33,058
And they, most of them shot way faster than I did, you know, but, but when the whistle
blew and you actually could see that in the thing I sent you there, I was in a barricade.

373
00:26:33,058 --> 00:26:44,745
just moved out really slow, just stood, took my time, put the shots on the target and
other people you, they're going like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

374
00:26:44,793 --> 00:26:47,064
But like you said, they're, but they're missing the target.

375
00:26:47,064 --> 00:26:52,107
So I think it was Wyatt Earp said, hurry up, but take your time.

376
00:26:52,107 --> 00:26:54,918
Exactly.

377
00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:55,889
Exactly.

378
00:26:55,889 --> 00:27:04,283
So I'm not, and I didn't say that to say the, a good shot I was, but it was, it was to
illustrate though, that the, that it works.

379
00:27:04,324 --> 00:27:13,969
In other words, if you can hit the target accurately, uh, then, then you'll learn how to
be faster and smoother and accurate.

380
00:27:13,969 --> 00:27:16,269
And it's just as simple as that.

381
00:27:16,829 --> 00:27:19,729
Well, I wanted to highlight one thing you said there.

382
00:27:20,069 --> 00:27:30,409
It's funny, I never thought about this, the quickest way to be ridiculed by an instructor
and most of your fellow students is, and Roy, you've had these folks a lot.

383
00:27:30,409 --> 00:27:31,869
I have too.

384
00:27:31,969 --> 00:27:33,589
Well, the sights are off.

385
00:27:33,589 --> 00:27:34,729
Oh, really?

386
00:27:35,609 --> 00:27:41,189
And you know, they're all one of, it looks on to me, and you hand it back and walk away.

387
00:27:41,189 --> 00:27:42,595
And everybody's going,

388
00:27:42,595 --> 00:27:44,146
That guy is a boob.

389
00:27:44,146 --> 00:27:46,908
He's blaming his tools instead of himself.

390
00:27:46,908 --> 00:27:50,970
And so if you are that kind of guy, I'm sorry or gal.

391
00:27:51,631 --> 00:27:53,332
it's, could be the sites.

392
00:27:53,332 --> 00:27:55,024
And that's why the instructor wants to test it.

393
00:27:55,024 --> 00:27:58,236
Cause I've seen that it's like, yeah, we got to let's go to the bench.

394
00:27:58,236 --> 00:28:08,223
This thing is off, but I would say 75 % of the time there's that one whole group and the
instructor just hands it back and goes, nah, I don't think it's insights.

395
00:28:08,223 --> 00:28:09,484
That's, that's you.

396
00:28:09,484 --> 00:28:10,504
Sorry.

397
00:28:10,504 --> 00:28:11,825
Welcome to reality.

398
00:28:11,825 --> 00:28:12,865
So it's true.

399
00:28:12,865 --> 00:28:21,985
And it's another reason though, to own a 22 pistol, a single action, double action, a
ruger standard auto, whatever is, man, that is the best thing in the world for you to

400
00:28:21,985 --> 00:28:33,045
teach yourself sight picture and take your time and learn to hit the target, you know, and
then, I mean, shoot, throw four magazines of that slow fire, do tape up one of those

401
00:28:33,045 --> 00:28:38,639
little targets I was telling you about with the little circles on it, warm up with your,
your 22.

402
00:28:38,639 --> 00:28:47,975
Well, now when you transition to your nine millimeter or whatever, think you'll be amazed
how well you do, you know, because it'll raise your expectations.

403
00:28:47,975 --> 00:28:59,421
So, Well, you know, in various training and competitive venues, I've noticed that thing
that you talked about is if you've been training on, you know, the maybe a three inch

404
00:28:59,421 --> 00:29:05,605
steel at 20 yards, when you go to a full size plate at 15, it's like, my God.

405
00:29:06,814 --> 00:29:08,655
I could do that over my shoulder.

406
00:29:08,655 --> 00:29:14,068
So it's that psychological component that I know I can do a lot better than this.

407
00:29:14,068 --> 00:29:24,994
So, you know, it builds confidence and confidence is a part of this too, because not with
all shooters, but I know sometimes I let myself get wrapped around the axle and that

408
00:29:24,994 --> 00:29:34,019
famous quote I was in a competition and Ken Campbell walked over and goes, just shoot, I
won't use all the words he used, but he's like, just shoot.

409
00:29:34,019 --> 00:29:35,039
Stop thinking about it.

410
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:35,580
Just shoot.

411
00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:37,212
I'm like, huh, wow.

412
00:29:37,212 --> 00:29:37,832
How about that?

413
00:29:37,832 --> 00:29:39,073
And I won the competition.

414
00:29:39,073 --> 00:29:41,175
So that was a, that was a good day.

415
00:29:41,175 --> 00:29:46,399
So anyway, we're about out of time, Roy, any parting words on this topic?

416
00:29:46,399 --> 00:29:49,282
And I'll say, I think at least the third time now.

417
00:29:49,282 --> 00:29:50,232
Yeah, we get it.

418
00:29:50,232 --> 00:29:51,033
We're fudge.

419
00:29:51,033 --> 00:29:51,444
Okay.

420
00:29:51,444 --> 00:29:55,107
This is something they did in 1955, but it still has a place today.

421
00:29:55,107 --> 00:29:58,510
I don't care how many terrorists you have killed on call of duty.

422
00:29:58,510 --> 00:30:00,451
So anyway, your thoughts, Roy.

423
00:30:00,451 --> 00:30:03,033
learn to shoot your gun, you know?

424
00:30:03,075 --> 00:30:10,147
I mean, don't be that persona on TV or the video game or something, because more than
likely you're not.

425
00:30:10,247 --> 00:30:16,529
And you'll, you'll do yourself a favor and other people, other shooters will have respect
for you.

426
00:30:16,529 --> 00:30:28,622
You know, when they, when they see your target and there's very precise shooting on it,
uh, they will pay much more attention to that than the goofball next to you does 10 mag

427
00:30:28,622 --> 00:30:31,493
dumps on the same target at seven yards.

428
00:30:31,493 --> 00:30:32,824
who's not learning anything.

429
00:30:32,824 --> 00:30:38,019
He's just making brass, you know, let, let your shooting speak.

430
00:30:38,019 --> 00:30:38,559
Nothing else.

431
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:39,490
It's really true.

432
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:41,362
You know, so I go do it.

433
00:30:41,362 --> 00:30:50,809
Uh, and if you have information on police shootings, red.site versus the old days, please
leave the, link for me in the comments.

434
00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:51,671
Yeah.

435
00:30:51,671 --> 00:30:55,404
Comments on YouTube, or if you're listening to us, you can always reach out email.

436
00:30:55,404 --> 00:30:58,276
That's editor at guns podcast.us.

437
00:30:59,073 --> 00:31:08,480
And while we're talking about guns podcast, us go there, you can see some of my writing,
you can see links to all of our shows, and you can buy merch and, I won't say it's flying

438
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,363
off the shelf, but we're selling some and that helps that helps keep me in beer money.

439
00:31:12,363 --> 00:31:15,225
So that's an important thing actually keeps me in ammo.

440
00:31:15,225 --> 00:31:16,866
So that's a good thing too.

441
00:31:16,866 --> 00:31:24,772
But also don't forget, we still are associated with gunsmagazine.com and it's sister
publication American handgunner.

442
00:31:24,772 --> 00:31:27,209
It's American handgunner.com right Roy?

443
00:31:27,209 --> 00:31:28,529
Yeah, I forgot.

444
00:31:28,529 --> 00:31:30,650
haven't said it in so long.

445
00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:38,582
anyway, yeah, I still write weekly on gunsmagazine.com and all of your favorite gun
goodness and gun writers are still there.

446
00:31:38,582 --> 00:31:39,873
So check that out.

447
00:31:39,873 --> 00:31:41,893
You can sign up for daily newsletters.

448
00:31:41,893 --> 00:31:47,285
You can get all of our great gun goodness, including this podcast delivered directly to
your inbox.

449
00:31:47,285 --> 00:31:52,297
So that's gunsmagazine.com and of course guns, I'm sorry, gunspodcast.us.

450
00:31:52,297 --> 00:31:53,097
So

451
00:31:53,943 --> 00:31:55,394
Anyway, it's been a fun talk.

452
00:31:55,394 --> 00:32:03,317
want to hear what you've got to say despite the fact we're going to get called fuds yet
again, but we are the lethal fuds and we proudly embrace that.

453
00:32:03,317 --> 00:32:06,418
That just tells me that we've got experience.

454
00:32:06,418 --> 00:32:15,982
anyway, and for the rest of you in the audience, which is a large percentage of fuds,
we're locking hands and united in our embrace of the idea.

455
00:32:15,982 --> 00:32:17,042
We've lived this long.

456
00:32:17,042 --> 00:32:18,963
We've experienced this much.

457
00:32:18,963 --> 00:32:21,484
There's nothing to be embarrassed about there.

458
00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:29,726
Anyway, on behalf of Roy Huntington, my official co-host, as I've often said, I am your
host, Brent Wheat, and this is Guns Podcast US.

459
00:32:29,726 --> 00:32:31,158
And you know what comes next?

460
00:32:31,158 --> 00:32:33,600
Now get out there and get shooting.