The Real Reason Porn’s Changing: Jacky St. James Exposes What Actually Turns Us On (and What Doesn’t)

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, Welcome back to Holly Randall Unfiltered. I am
<v Speaker 1>truly so excited about my guest today because I absolutely
<v Speaker 1>love her. She's so much fun and she's somebody that
<v Speaker 1>I consider a friend, even though I don't see her
<v Speaker 1>as often as I would like. She is an award
<v Speaker 1>winning director and writer who really, I mean, I feel
<v Speaker 1>like needs no introduction. In her fourteen years in the industry,
<v Speaker 1>she has reshaped it from the inside out by creating
<v Speaker 1>films that put women's pleasure first. Welcome the one and
<v Speaker 1>only Jackie Saint James.
<v Speaker 2>I'm so happy to be back. I know. I'm so
<v Speaker 2>happy you're here too.
<v Speaker 1>It's been we were trying to figure out how long
<v Speaker 1>has been since you've been on it.
<v Speaker 2>COVID was the last time. Yeah, twenty twenty, I guess. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I don't even really remember what we talked about because
<v Speaker 1>I think I was pregnant at the time.
<v Speaker 4>Well, I remember that you kindly gave me the money
<v Speaker 4>that people donated, and I just if people don't know,
<v Speaker 4>like obviously everyone knows you're wonderful, but like that meant
<v Speaker 4>so much to me. And whenever I think of you,
<v Speaker 4>I always think about that. I was hurting financially and
<v Speaker 4>you you helped me, so thank you.
<v Speaker 2>You're welcome. I remember that too. I am pretty great.
<v Speaker 2>I like I remember that too. That's I remember about that.
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember what we talked about either, actually, so, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>that was a rough time.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, COVID was like really hard for some people and
<v Speaker 1>really great for others.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't mind it, actually, yeah, I didn't. It didn't
<v Speaker 2>feel that different than the life I lived. I don't
<v Speaker 2>get out a lot. Yeah.
<v Speaker 5>I was just like, yeah, I was pregnant. It was great.
<v Speaker 5>Oh that's perfect good timing.
<v Speaker 1>So I didn't have to like go on set and
<v Speaker 1>direct and be on my feet all day.
<v Speaker 2>I just like hunt out and home and grew a
<v Speaker 2>baby that is.
<v Speaker 4>Enough to get tested every week, every day, actually every
<v Speaker 4>day you shot.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, show up clean the location, yeah, first with
<v Speaker 1>like anti infectant, and wear.
<v Speaker 2>Masks while people have sex in front of you. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>A lot has changed since then, Yeah, yeah, it So
<v Speaker 1>tell me about what you've been doing since then, and
<v Speaker 1>like what your career is now.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I work full time for Blessed now, I'm
<v Speaker 4>under contract with them, and that's it. It's totally different
<v Speaker 4>because I'm only doing vignettes. I don't do features anymore.
<v Speaker 4>And it's been great. It's weird to work for a
<v Speaker 4>company that's run by kids.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I say kids.
<v Speaker 4>They're in their twenties and thirties, but like they are
<v Speaker 4>kids to me. But they're so you know, on top
<v Speaker 4>of technology and kind of what's going on. And I've
<v Speaker 4>learned a lot from them. It's hard to say that
<v Speaker 4>as like an old woman that like you're learning from
<v Speaker 4>the kids, but they've taught me a lot about the
<v Speaker 4>way things work. Yeah, you know, I'm from the old
<v Speaker 4>school days where people still put the DVD in and yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So tell us a little bit about Blessed, because not
<v Speaker 1>everybody may know that studio because they're sort.
<v Speaker 4>Of new ish, new ish, Yeah, and they're not like
<v Speaker 4>they don't heavily promote, so a lot of people don't
<v Speaker 4>know about them.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's a female run organization.
<v Speaker 4>It's really geared towards female pleasure, and so there's a
<v Speaker 4>lot of focus on tension and the you know, appearance
<v Speaker 4>of the.
<v Speaker 2>Girl and the guy.
<v Speaker 4>I actually, when I started working for them, I publicly
<v Speaker 4>shamed them because they were trying to kind of infiltrate
<v Speaker 4>the porn world. They were taking content that like I
<v Speaker 4>had done, other women had done, and sort of like
<v Speaker 4>putting them on a tube site which was.
<v Speaker 1>There's their blog site. I absolutely remember that. But to
<v Speaker 1>their credit, when they got called out on it, the
<v Speaker 1>owner came forward and said, yes, I'm so sorry, that
<v Speaker 1>wasn't my intention.
<v Speaker 5>How can I make this better?
<v Speaker 2>Yes? And I mean, you know, that's.
<v Speaker 4>That's why I sort of changed my tune and that
<v Speaker 4>they were like, do you want.
<v Speaker 2>To come work with some Yeah, sure, why not.
<v Speaker 4>You're willing to admit your mistake and and I think
<v Speaker 4>that they're always willing to kind of grow and evolve,
<v Speaker 4>and I love that about them.
<v Speaker 1>Right Yeah, So what made you leave New Sensations? Did
<v Speaker 1>they just offer you this contract? Were you kind of
<v Speaker 1>like I went over there?
<v Speaker 2>So I left New Sensations.
<v Speaker 5>It was such a.
<v Speaker 4>Like a huge change in my life when I left.
<v Speaker 4>But I went to Mile High first for a little while,
<v Speaker 4>and I got more money, but then I got less
<v Speaker 4>money for the shoots, so like I was shooting back
<v Speaker 4>a lot lower budget stuff, but I was making more money.
<v Speaker 4>And then through Mile High, blessed Mile High, we're kind
<v Speaker 4>of working together. So then I was the first director
<v Speaker 4>pretty much the only one for Blessa and then eventually
<v Speaker 4>I just left Mile High and have been contracted to
<v Speaker 4>Blessa for about four years by working with them for
<v Speaker 4>about seven.
<v Speaker 2>So what's your favorite thing about working for them?
<v Speaker 4>I think they're always trying to create new things and
<v Speaker 4>new ideas within the storylines that they give. And they're
<v Speaker 4>they're also I will I'll say, like I don't have
<v Speaker 4>gigantic budgets, but they're willing to pay for the higher
<v Speaker 4>end people that might be a little bit more like
<v Speaker 4>somebody that's primarily an only fans star that's going to
<v Speaker 4>charge a lot of money. They'll be willing to pay
<v Speaker 4>for that budget for that person because they know with
<v Speaker 4>that comes like marketing and that kind of thing. So
<v Speaker 4>I get to work with a lot of the people
<v Speaker 4>that I wasn't able to work with previously with new
<v Speaker 4>sensations a mile high because they wouldn't pay that.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I worked for companies. I won't necessarily name them.
<v Speaker 1>It's not Browsers, by the way. I just want to
<v Speaker 1>put that out there because I know a lot of
<v Speaker 1>people knew that I worked for them and for Twisties.
<v Speaker 1>It's not either of them. But they would want me
<v Speaker 1>to book expensive girls. Yeah, and they wouldn't pay anymore,
<v Speaker 1>and it would be like in the scene rate that
<v Speaker 1>I get, which was already load to begin with. And
<v Speaker 1>I was like, so, basically, you just want me to
<v Speaker 1>make more money so you can get a scene that
<v Speaker 1>will make you more money because you have a big.
<v Speaker 2>Name girl in there, Like yeah, are you serious? Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>isn't that funny?
<v Speaker 4>Or they'll say there were you know, or they'll say
<v Speaker 4>something like you know the girl's rate, and they'll be like, well,
<v Speaker 4>you know, just offer her, you know, seventy percent off
<v Speaker 4>of what her rate is.
<v Speaker 5>And it's just like why why why would we leave
<v Speaker 5>her house for that?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Why would she take it?
<v Speaker 5>And like why do I want to negotiate that? Correct?
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't benefit me in any way.
<v Speaker 2>She makes you look cheap.
<v Speaker 1>It makes me look cheap like that I'm not getting
<v Speaker 1>I'm not getting residuals, Like I'm not getting like a share.
<v Speaker 2>Of the profits. Like why would I do that? Right?
<v Speaker 5>You can fucking call her and negotiate the race.
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah that is humiliating. I've had to
<v Speaker 4>do that before too.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>We's just like, look, say no, but this is like
<v Speaker 2>this is all I have. This is what it is.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm sorry if that's embarrassing, but like this is
<v Speaker 4>what I can pay you.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. Do most people say yes when you do that? Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, of course, because I will say like hey, I'll
<v Speaker 4>try and get you out as quickly as possible or whatever.
<v Speaker 4>But I don't like doing it because I feel it
<v Speaker 4>does feel cheap, it feels manipulative.
<v Speaker 2>If somebody has a rate, just pay it, Yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 4>They have a rate for a reason, or they have
<v Speaker 4>a rate for the studio that they know will pay more,
<v Speaker 4>and I don't like that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So you don't shoot
<v Speaker 2>fature films anymore. No, you're just shooting.
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna ask you, are you sad about that?
<v Speaker 1>And that face that you gave me made me feel
<v Speaker 1>like you are maybe a little bit.
<v Speaker 4>Yes and no, Like there's been a couple times like
<v Speaker 4>I've tried to do like features and they didn't work out,
<v Speaker 4>like with Blessa or just you know, we would try
<v Speaker 4>to do something bigger and then like things would fall
<v Speaker 4>through or whatever. It is sad because it's always nice
<v Speaker 4>to see the full story, you know, come to life,
<v Speaker 4>whereas like when you do scenes, it's it's very I
<v Speaker 4>don't want to say churn and burn, but it is
<v Speaker 4>kind of because it's like, wait, what was that scene?
<v Speaker 2>I did?
<v Speaker 4>You know, because you've like I do six scenes a
<v Speaker 4>month and they're scripted and I sort of will forget
<v Speaker 4>about them, you know, months down the line.
<v Speaker 2>But like a feature stays with you and it's something
<v Speaker 2>that you can be proud of.
<v Speaker 4>And I think the most the work I am most
<v Speaker 4>proud of often were the features that I did back
<v Speaker 4>in the Yeah, what's your favorite feature that you've shot?
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's funny. I didn't get any awards for this,
<v Speaker 4>but the friend Zone. I wasn't credited as a director,
<v Speaker 4>but I was like an assistant director on it. But
<v Speaker 4>I loved that script, and it was with Riley Reid
<v Speaker 4>and Anthony Risano. I thought it was the most hilarious
<v Speaker 4>thing I've written for Adult and I just loved it.
<v Speaker 2>It was just so much fun for me to what
<v Speaker 2>studio was it for? It was for New Sensations.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, So when you were shooting features, did you
<v Speaker 1>also write the scripts?
<v Speaker 2>Always? Yeah, I can't.
<v Speaker 4>I'm too much of a control freak, Like I don't
<v Speaker 4>want to take somebody else's work, and I don't want
<v Speaker 4>somebody taking my work and directing it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't.
<v Speaker 1>The problem is, too, is that when you get somebody
<v Speaker 1>else's script, usually it's somebody who's never shot Adult before,
<v Speaker 1>and the things that they put in there and the
<v Speaker 1>shots that they think that you're going to be able
<v Speaker 1>to get are like it's not possible, Like it's outside.
<v Speaker 2>In the snowing, and I'm just like, no, that's.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I had one that wanted me to shoot on
<v Speaker 1>like a semi truck at a truck stop.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what am i? Am I going to
<v Speaker 1>go shoot illegally at a public truck stop? Am I
<v Speaker 1>going to rent a truck stop?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 5>Do you have any idea how much that would be?
<v Speaker 2>Number one? The cost?
<v Speaker 1>Number two, like most locations don't want you to shoot
<v Speaker 1>adult there, No, And like number three like where yeah
<v Speaker 1>I get it outside?
<v Speaker 2>Like well probably if it's a truck stop. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And that's always the fun one too, when they want
<v Speaker 1>you to shoot in a location that's really far away
<v Speaker 1>and you have to drive like three hours to get there,
<v Speaker 1>and they don't want to pay anyone's gas. They don't
<v Speaker 1>want to pay like overnight stay. And it's just like,
<v Speaker 1>I mean now that I don't I haven't directed in
<v Speaker 1>like two and a half years. I think about all
<v Speaker 1>of the times that I shot, and I just sucked
<v Speaker 1>it up, and I just like I just took it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what I mean.
<v Speaker 1>I was just like, Okay, I will do this outrageous
<v Speaker 1>thing that you're at you're hungry.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, I will not drive far anymore.
<v Speaker 4>I will not because I hear like people shooting in
<v Speaker 4>Santa Monica, and I'm like, forget it.
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to sit there in two hours of
<v Speaker 2>up far too far for you.
<v Speaker 4>I'm thinking like Palm Springs. Well, Palm Springs would definitely
<v Speaker 4>be no. But no Santa Monica. That's like a two
<v Speaker 4>hour drive for me. Yeah, where I live, but it
<v Speaker 4>is far. The traffic's horrendous. Like, no, you know, I'm
<v Speaker 4>going to use the same houses that you know are
<v Speaker 4>that we all use there in the rotation.
<v Speaker 2>That's where I'm going because it's not worth it to me.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Like, my my life and my happiness is more
<v Speaker 4>important than sitting for two hours in a car to
<v Speaker 4>shoot porn.
<v Speaker 2>No, not going to do it.
<v Speaker 1>What do you think We talk about locations a lot,
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like this is always something that surprises people.
<v Speaker 1>What do you think is the one thing about locations
<v Speaker 1>that would surprise someone who didn't know anything about the
<v Speaker 1>adult industry.
<v Speaker 2>There are some that smell really bad. We know who
<v Speaker 2>that is. Sorry, I'm just I answering the question estion.
<v Speaker 2>Am I wrong? Did you go to a baby share
<v Speaker 2>there recently?
<v Speaker 4>No?
<v Speaker 2>Not that one.
<v Speaker 5>That house is okay?
<v Speaker 2>So all the houses have like nicknames.
<v Speaker 5>Oh, I know which one you're talking about.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's the crack house one that we all kind
<v Speaker 4>of call I won't say the persons saying, but we
<v Speaker 4>call it the crack house or fun house, and a
<v Speaker 4>lot of parties and drugs have happened there.
<v Speaker 2>I would say, probably you'd be surprised that.
<v Speaker 4>Like I think for me, the amount of wealth and
<v Speaker 4>these big palatial mansions, but they feel like dumps, you
<v Speaker 4>know what I mean. So like if I think if
<v Speaker 4>somebody went to these homes, like I know with girls
<v Speaker 4>will they'll drive up to the house and be like,
<v Speaker 4>oh my god, And I'm just like what, Like I
<v Speaker 4>see it as a dump a lot of the places
<v Speaker 4>and no offense to the homeowners.
<v Speaker 5>But it's like I.
<v Speaker 4>Think, if you're shooting porn in your house, there's a reason,
<v Speaker 4>you know there is, Yeah, either you want the extra
<v Speaker 4>cash flow or you're hurting or your kinky.
<v Speaker 2>I mean there's a couple of those homeowners that kind
<v Speaker 2>of linger, and those are my least favorite.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a woman that does it really Okay, all right,
<v Speaker 1>I know, I'm like out of the locations game now, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>because that's always like the biggest struggle is finding places
<v Speaker 1>to shoot, and then finding places that you like to
<v Speaker 1>shoot at, and that don't have a creepy homeowner, that
<v Speaker 1>don't have like difficult parking, aren't like really far away ye,
<v Speaker 1>that aren't dirty. I mean I've gone into some dirty.
<v Speaker 5>Some of them are clean. You'll have to tell me
<v Speaker 5>which one.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about those.
<v Speaker 1>There's definitely there's one house in particular, and I won't
<v Speaker 1>say the name, but that I would I bought a
<v Speaker 1>cleaning kit for that location. I would come there with
<v Speaker 1>dishwashing gloves and I would clean it when I get there.
<v Speaker 1>And I cleaned the bathroom specifically because I didn't want
<v Speaker 1>the talent to go use that bathroom, like go dute
<v Speaker 1>in the bathroom.
<v Speaker 5>And it's like, yeah, you know what I mean, it's
<v Speaker 5>a disgust.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you should have paid me a goddamn
<v Speaker 1>cleaning pain for sure.
<v Speaker 2>You know what I just thought of this?
<v Speaker 4>You're gonna do you watch a lot of crime Do
<v Speaker 4>I watch what a lot of crime shows?
<v Speaker 2>Okay, there is a house that we've.
<v Speaker 4>All shot at a million times that also is featured
<v Speaker 4>on Discovery ID And like all these crime shows, like
<v Speaker 4>these reenactments and I'm always laughing.
<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, oh, do you know how many people
<v Speaker 2>have sex in that?
<v Speaker 4>But they have no idea. But there is one house
<v Speaker 4>that appears in all of these and I just I
<v Speaker 4>just sit there and laugh because the mainstream.
<v Speaker 2>Actors have no clue. Yeah, clicked all the body count
<v Speaker 2>at that POINTE like bad. You don't want to take
<v Speaker 2>a black light to that? Oh no, no, no, no no.
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<v Speaker 1>So I want to ask you, what do you believe?
<v Speaker 2>Is that?
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I already know the answer. What is
<v Speaker 1>the most overused trope in porn movies?
<v Speaker 2>Come on the step Family? Oh? Really?
<v Speaker 5>Is that what you were gonna say?
<v Speaker 1>Now?
<v Speaker 2>Oh? What an original answer? Yeah? That, I mean, I
<v Speaker 2>think it's fading, though, don't you.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I don't know, because you're not really as
<v Speaker 4>enmeshed in the business anymore.
<v Speaker 5>But like from what you've.
<v Speaker 4>Heard, I haven't shot it since I worked for Bless
<v Speaker 4>because they don't do that. But I don't think it's
<v Speaker 4>really in the limelight anymore. I guess i'd say, thank God.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 5>Do you remember like when that trope came around?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>I do, because I remember I had just started directing
<v Speaker 4>and I was like, yeah, like I was excited about
<v Speaker 4>doing it because it seemed wrong and it was like
<v Speaker 4>not overdone.
<v Speaker 2>At that point.
<v Speaker 4>I would always make them kind of campy and fun,
<v Speaker 4>but then it started getting to the point where they
<v Speaker 4>were really dark and disturbing, and it got like really
<v Speaker 4>really not okay and not funny anymore. And then it
<v Speaker 4>sort of was straddling that really weird line of I
<v Speaker 4>don't know, pushing an agenda that was.
<v Speaker 2>Should not be pushed.
<v Speaker 4>I guess I could say, yeah, but you know, I
<v Speaker 4>think that you have companies like Browsers that keep that
<v Speaker 4>funny stuff alive, and I think that's where it should live.
<v Speaker 2>If it's gonna live anymore.
<v Speaker 1>Is in humor as opposed to like tapping into some
<v Speaker 1>people's like real life trauma.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and like people crying, It's like, wow, are people?
<v Speaker 4>And I'm sure people get off to it. I mean
<v Speaker 4>people get off to everything. But should we be promoting this?
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is there anything in particular that like, you absolutely
<v Speaker 1>will not shoot?
<v Speaker 2>Will not? I mean besides the obvious, you know, like
<v Speaker 2>illegal stuff.
<v Speaker 4>No, I really want to get into bisexual a bisexual.
<v Speaker 2>Line right now.
<v Speaker 4>I think I've heard horror stories from directors about like
<v Speaker 4>shooting gay just because the logistical aspect of it, And
<v Speaker 4>so for that reason I would probably say no. I
<v Speaker 4>don't want to book people's flights. I don't want to
<v Speaker 4>deal with flight changes. I don't want to deal with drama.
<v Speaker 4>I've also heard some crazy stories about like how there's
<v Speaker 4>just a different vibe there where the guys will be
<v Speaker 4>looking at their own horn and then they'll go and
<v Speaker 4>have sex with them, like if there's just a disconnect,
<v Speaker 4>and I'm like, it doesn't really feel like it would
<v Speaker 4>be for me right, And also I hate dealing with
<v Speaker 4>travel and that, Like, No.
<v Speaker 1>It's so funny that you said logistics because in my
<v Speaker 1>head I was thinking, you know, penises can be temperamental
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes they don't work, and then you have two
<v Speaker 1>things that are temperamental and you know, like doubles the
<v Speaker 1>chances of things going wrong.
<v Speaker 5>That was what popped into my head. But you were
<v Speaker 5>like flights.
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, damn, that's funny is when I cause I
<v Speaker 4>have been on a gay porn watching a phase lately
<v Speaker 4>and what I will say that I find so hilarious.
<v Speaker 4>And another reason why what you're saying is true, like
<v Speaker 4>I would not want to shoot gay porn is it's
<v Speaker 4>always cross dissolving and I'm like, oh, they're not hard
<v Speaker 4>yet again, and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to
<v Speaker 4>deal with that because I don't want my days to
<v Speaker 4>be twelve hours to shoot a sex scene when I'm
<v Speaker 4>just hiring reliable talent that I know I can count.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what I mean. So I think that too.
<v Speaker 2>I think what you're saying is, yeah, the penises can
<v Speaker 2>be tempering.
<v Speaker 1>You said you're on a gay porn watching kick. Are
<v Speaker 1>you watching it like for research or.
<v Speaker 2>No, just pleasure?
<v Speaker 4>And honestly, I could because I don't like watching people
<v Speaker 4>I know, and so I don't work with a lot
<v Speaker 4>of gay performers. I know if I worked with a couple,
<v Speaker 4>but like I don't, it's not what I shoot. So
<v Speaker 4>it's easier to find somebody that I don't know. Yeah,
<v Speaker 4>I'm I'm in the same boat. Yeah, because I'm like
<v Speaker 4>I can't watch that one because I.
<v Speaker 1>Know him really well and I know or like sometimes
<v Speaker 1>you'll find a video and you're like, okay, great, I
<v Speaker 1>don't know that girl, and you'll be like getting into
<v Speaker 1>it and the guy's head's cut off and then all
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, like his head I remember this one specifically,
<v Speaker 1>and then his head came in and it was like
<v Speaker 1>Ryan mclan I was like, oh.
<v Speaker 2>Fuck done.
<v Speaker 5>I can't.
<v Speaker 4>No, it feels gross because it's like you're masturbating to
<v Speaker 4>your friends. Yes, yeah, so with the gay performers, like
<v Speaker 4>I really only know maybe a handful, So for me
<v Speaker 4>it doesn't feel wrong because I'm like, well I don't
<v Speaker 4>know them.
<v Speaker 2>That's to them. I can hang out with them later.
<v Speaker 1>There's also something like very you know, like obviously like
<v Speaker 1>kind of animalistic and like testosterone and oh.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah about like yeah, and I do like the gay
<v Speaker 4>porn where it's like the I mean, this is bad,
<v Speaker 4>but it's like the masculine father and he's having sex
<v Speaker 4>with his son's friend.
<v Speaker 2>I love those.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the thing is is that also too,
<v Speaker 1>Like for me as a woman, I get turned on
<v Speaker 1>by hearing the guy. Oh sure, like the guy making sounds,
<v Speaker 1>the guy talking, and in heterosexual porn, because it's a
<v Speaker 1>mainly male audience and it's focused on the woman, you're
<v Speaker 1>usually telling the guy to shut up.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which like so unfortunate.
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever had a male performer that you've worked
<v Speaker 1>with that you've had to tell him to like stop
<v Speaker 1>making the scene about him or no, no, no.
<v Speaker 4>In fact, I just shot Cody still and he was laughing.
<v Speaker 4>He's like, I love when I shoot for you because
<v Speaker 4>I'm the one that's shirtless all the time and the
<v Speaker 4>girls are completely closed because.
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, this is what I want to see.
<v Speaker 2>I want to see you, But no, I've never had
<v Speaker 2>that happen.
<v Speaker 4>I think most of the guys I don't want to
<v Speaker 4>say are trained, but they're so used to not being
<v Speaker 4>the focus.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, those would be the experience guys though, like in
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of their career.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there is one guy I'll tell you later, but
<v Speaker 4>he makes really distracting faces.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you probably know who this is. Well, I there
<v Speaker 2>was a guy. I think his name was Marco. He
<v Speaker 2>does not work in the industry anymore.
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, he was very over the top with his faces.
<v Speaker 2>He was always like and it was just like, yes, ma,
<v Speaker 2>she's gonna make a thumbnail out of that picture. I
<v Speaker 2>know it, but.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it was like yeah, and when I
<v Speaker 1>would edit the pictures, I'd like pick ones were like
<v Speaker 1>that were cropped in clothes, so or I tell him,
<v Speaker 1>I'd tell him to hide his face behind the girl
<v Speaker 1>like food.
<v Speaker 5>That's all I can look at.
<v Speaker 2>Is stupid over the top expression.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I know that you're having a good time, but like,
<v Speaker 1>come on, man, it was like so insane.
<v Speaker 4>Yes, there is one guy right now that doesn't I
<v Speaker 4>don't hire him that much. But yeah, because I will
<v Speaker 4>be behind the monitor and just trying not to laugh.
<v Speaker 4>And indeed that's wrong because you know, people are vulnerable,
<v Speaker 4>they're having sex.
<v Speaker 2>But I'm just kind of like, why are you making that? Yeah?
<v Speaker 5>You know what makes a great male performer in your opinion.
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think first, just honoring the boundaries is huge,
<v Speaker 4>but just knowing like there's always those guys that like
<v Speaker 4>but a while later, like they think it's a date,
<v Speaker 4>Guys that can still sort of straddle that line between
<v Speaker 4>being respectful to the girl and affectionate with her but
<v Speaker 4>not crossing the line. And uh, and then know how
<v Speaker 4>to position the girl is so important. There's so many
<v Speaker 4>guys still to this day that have been in forever
<v Speaker 4>that don't know where to angle based on the light.
<v Speaker 2>And it's astounding to me.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I've been in this business for you know, ten
<v Speaker 4>fifteen years and you still don't know how to position
<v Speaker 4>correctly or open up.
<v Speaker 2>That's strange. Oh yeah, it happens a lot.
<v Speaker 5>Huh.
<v Speaker 4>But then there's people like Victor Ray's a new performer
<v Speaker 4>who's come onto the scene and he's so enthusiastic and
<v Speaker 4>so he's just great and he the energy and passion,
<v Speaker 4>Like I hope he never loses that because you see
<v Speaker 4>these young guys and you're like, please don't become jaded,
<v Speaker 4>please please please, and please don't you know, graduate from
<v Speaker 4>Viagar to something else.
<v Speaker 1>Cavera jack Yeah, yeah, we've talked about it on this podcast,
<v Speaker 1>so it's not something that people haven't heard about before.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I mean a lot of new guys are
<v Speaker 4>using that out of the gate, and I think that
<v Speaker 4>is another thing, Like I think the guys that are
<v Speaker 4>just using Viagara or trying to do it naturally are
<v Speaker 4>usually better because there's there's a drive there. They have
<v Speaker 4>to be engaged and enthusiastic because they have to keep
<v Speaker 4>it harred.
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense, whereas with caver jackets, like they can
<v Speaker 2>just go through the motions.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there are some days that everybody needs a blue
<v Speaker 1>Choo and if you need it, you can go to
<v Speaker 1>bluetoo dot com and you just god only.
<v Speaker 2>Get your first drive free.
<v Speaker 1>They do sponsor this podcast, so but uh so, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>there are some days that everybody needs a blue Choo.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but I agree with you because.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, once it becomes like just it becomes
<v Speaker 1>the mechanics of it. Yeah, and also too, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like it can ruin your penis. I mean I think
<v Speaker 1>we all know like one person in particular who can
<v Speaker 1>no longer work yep.
<v Speaker 2>And there's a few that are on that path as
<v Speaker 2>well right now.
<v Speaker 1>People always talk about how hard porn is on women
<v Speaker 1>and how it like you know, ages them or whatever,
<v Speaker 1>but I think that people don't like realize how hard
<v Speaker 1>it is for men.
<v Speaker 2>Oh it's so hard. Yeah, yeah, it's so hard.
<v Speaker 4>I've talked to a couple of the guys about it too,
<v Speaker 4>just the whole you know, because I've even talked to
<v Speaker 4>like both the men and women about just the emotional
<v Speaker 4>aspect of it.
<v Speaker 2>Because you always think, oh.
<v Speaker 4>Guys, there's no problem for them, but like there is
<v Speaker 4>something about your body being used for a film and
<v Speaker 4>there being no connection.
<v Speaker 2>And I think it even wears on the guys.
<v Speaker 4>Over time, Yeah, where it's just like meaningless, complete meaningless.
<v Speaker 2>Sex that they're having every day.
<v Speaker 1>I remember I had Cody's deel on and he talked about,
<v Speaker 1>you know, times when he's had to work with girls
<v Speaker 1>who like weren't sure if they wanted to do porn
<v Speaker 1>or weren't sure if they wanted to be there, and
<v Speaker 1>he was like, that is the worst, because I don't
<v Speaker 1>want to have sex with you if you don't want
<v Speaker 1>to have sex with me.
<v Speaker 5>And now I'm being put in this position where.
<v Speaker 1>Like I feel like I'm yes, you know what I mean,
<v Speaker 1>like pushing this boundary that I would normally never do it,
<v Speaker 1>Like this is my job and you showed up for
<v Speaker 1>the job too, and you say you want to do it,
<v Speaker 1>but I could kind of tell you that you don't,
<v Speaker 1>And it's like, how do you He.
<v Speaker 2>Shot one of those scenes with me recently but feels
<v Speaker 2>so bad. Yeah, yeah, but what are you going to do?
<v Speaker 4>I mean, if somebody's consenting and saying they want to
<v Speaker 4>be there, it's not for me or anyway to judge
<v Speaker 4>what they individually want to do, right, we can perceive
<v Speaker 4>it as something yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, speaking of I wanted to talk to you
<v Speaker 1>about like your thoughts on the rise of like the
<v Speaker 1>influencer important because the industry has changed significantly since, you know,
<v Speaker 1>the last time that we talked. With the rise of
<v Speaker 1>OnlyFans and other content platforms, you know, you're getting a
<v Speaker 1>lot of people that wouldn't maybe necessarily enter the adult
<v Speaker 1>industry doing so, and then you know, really leaning into
<v Speaker 1>like the hard marketing like social media and stuff, and
<v Speaker 1>then they think, Okay, I got to do you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to do a scene for like a big brand,
<v Speaker 1>only for the traffic they don't actually necessarily want to do,
<v Speaker 1>you know, like they're not excited to shoot for browsers
<v Speaker 1>because they want to shoot for browsers. They want the
<v Speaker 1>traffic for browsers, and that's why they do the scene.
<v Speaker 1>So have you experienced working with people like that?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>And I try and avoid it unless you know, there's
<v Speaker 4>a couple people that are focused mainly on their only fans,
<v Speaker 4>and they'll come and shoot for me occasionally, but like
<v Speaker 4>a big you know, influencer, not so much, because they
<v Speaker 4>wouldn't be seeking out they would seek out of browsers
<v Speaker 4>or you know, somebody that's going to pay them an
<v Speaker 4>obscene amount of money just for one scene. But I
<v Speaker 4>will say that it's sort of we now in a
<v Speaker 4>time where a lot of people don't have to show
<v Speaker 4>up to set because they could just stay home, have
<v Speaker 4>sex and make money or shoot content. And so getting
<v Speaker 4>people to set there always has to be you know,
<v Speaker 4>the paycheck is not an incentive anymore.
<v Speaker 2>Really, I mean that's what's crazy. Yeah, But I will.
<v Speaker 4>Say like a lot of the people that I have
<v Speaker 4>on set now are happy to be there, and I'm
<v Speaker 4>fortunate for that. But I do get scared with the
<v Speaker 4>influencer thing because I think these people are trying to
<v Speaker 4>like up the anti I mean, you look at Bonnie
<v Speaker 4>was there name Bonnie Blue Blue, Yeah, shooting and then
<v Speaker 4>I heard somebody wants to do a five thousand anal thing.
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, that's not even possible. But you're also harming
<v Speaker 4>your body or heart. Just it's so dangerous, and I
<v Speaker 4>think we live in a culture now where it's like clickbait.
<v Speaker 4>What can I do to get more clicks, more attention?
<v Speaker 4>And like how do you up that ante? Like Bonny
<v Speaker 4>Blues Gangbang? Then you got to go to the next
<v Speaker 4>thing and then the next and the next and the next.
<v Speaker 5>But it's also like it's weird.
<v Speaker 1>It's a double edged sword because how do you get recognized?
<v Speaker 1>How do you Because I had her on before she
<v Speaker 1>got big, like kind of right before she really started
<v Speaker 1>to take off, Yeah, and she talked about you know,
<v Speaker 1>finding your niche and like marketing and all that kind
<v Speaker 1>of stuff. I mean, how do you stand out from
<v Speaker 1>the crowd and clearly like she really saw that, like
<v Speaker 1>there there was that opportunity, and I mean she took
<v Speaker 1>a direction I guess I was really expecting.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>But and then that's like that is that.
<v Speaker 1>I mean it is reflective of society today and our
<v Speaker 1>short attention spans and our over consumption of media and
<v Speaker 1>the fact that we are walking around with like a
<v Speaker 1>little you know, TV computer with us all day. And
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like we're old enough to remember before there
<v Speaker 1>were cell phones.
<v Speaker 4>I remember the little Hello, Yeah, I had had the
<v Speaker 4>rotary Have you ever did a shoot with a girl?
<v Speaker 1>I've done this for if I've done like a retro
<v Speaker 1>shoot with like an eighteen year old and I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>here's a rotary phone, you know, because it's like we're
<v Speaker 1>doing like a sixty style thing and she's.
<v Speaker 4>Like, what the fuck is Oh my gosh.
<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, I mean how would they know? Isn't
<v Speaker 2>that scary?
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>I think I honestly have to say I love that
<v Speaker 4>I'm gen X because I feel like we are the
<v Speaker 4>generation that got to see.
<v Speaker 2>The world purely.
<v Speaker 4>But also like, you know, before all this other crap
<v Speaker 4>came into play, Yeah, we knew what it was like
<v Speaker 4>to leave a voicemail on an answering machine and check
<v Speaker 4>it and not know if somebody was available.
<v Speaker 2>And now we have everything. I mean, I.
<v Speaker 4>Noticed my attention span is really shot. Like when I drive,
<v Speaker 4>I'm not as focused. It's just it's terrifying.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know where how to get anywhere anymore
<v Speaker 1>because I with maps. Yeah, you know, like trying to
<v Speaker 1>find my way to my in law's house. I've been
<v Speaker 1>there a million times, right, and every time we go there,
<v Speaker 1>because you know, there was a period of time that
<v Speaker 1>only I could and just like.
<v Speaker 5>Like, where are they again?
<v Speaker 1>And my husband was like, we've been together for nine years,
<v Speaker 1>like we see them, Like, oh, how do you not
<v Speaker 1>know how to get there yet?
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I just don't pay attention. Yeah, you know, yep.
<v Speaker 1>And thank god cell phones weren't around when I was
<v Speaker 1>at college.
<v Speaker 2>Jesus Christ, Oh my god.
<v Speaker 4>I think about social media just like I mean, I
<v Speaker 4>was bullied in high school, and I think to myself,
<v Speaker 4>I feel for.
<v Speaker 2>Kids today because they can't escape it. Like I could
<v Speaker 2>escape it.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I could go home to my family and I
<v Speaker 4>wasn't seeing it, But like kids today, and I think
<v Speaker 4>about the performers too. They cannot escape the hateful fans
<v Speaker 4>are saying like horrific things to that. Yeah, and it's
<v Speaker 4>like all day long, all day long, unless they have
<v Speaker 4>somebody managing their social media.
<v Speaker 1>I actually am often surprised that I don't get like
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I definitely get negative comments.
<v Speaker 5>Most of them are on YouTube.
<v Speaker 1>Actually, I love the one you the one I posted
<v Speaker 1>about being old.
<v Speaker 5>Love that guy was so great. That made me laugh
<v Speaker 5>so hard.
<v Speaker 1>And I still like, go back and when I'm feeling sad,
<v Speaker 1>I go back and I read that and it makes
<v Speaker 1>me laugh.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was so good.
<v Speaker 1>It was something like, Hi, I saw your thumbnail and
<v Speaker 1>I like clicked on your site and I joined, but
<v Speaker 1>then I saw you are old.
<v Speaker 5>I'm very sorry he had to tell you. I was
<v Speaker 5>love it.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>There was just something about the way that he said
<v Speaker 1>it which just like killed me. Yeah, and you know,
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I mean that's obviously something that a lot
<v Speaker 1>of you know, women who are in the milf era
<v Speaker 1>here and just women like in general and in entertainment.
<v Speaker 4>Well there, I think just in general, I mean like
<v Speaker 4>the transition of moving from I mean as a woman
<v Speaker 4>like I look at young women today, and I'm just like,
<v Speaker 4>you have no idea, but like, I don't know if
<v Speaker 4>you remember, but like I remember the distinct moments where
<v Speaker 4>it was like I no longer the girl that would
<v Speaker 4>be checked out. I mean I never was like the
<v Speaker 4>hot girl, but meaning where you graduate into ma'am and
<v Speaker 4>men are not going out of their way to hold
<v Speaker 4>the door for you anymore, like you're the old woman.
<v Speaker 1>So I don't have that exact experience because I actually
<v Speaker 1>sort of look better now than I did in my
<v Speaker 1>twenties because I was drinking so heavily in my twenties
<v Speaker 1>that I had like a lot of alcohol bloat, so
<v Speaker 1>like I did not look very good. I look back
<v Speaker 1>at pictures of myself in my twenties, I'm like, how
<v Speaker 1>did I get laid? It was just because I was easy,
<v Speaker 1>but like I did, like I did not look good, Okay,
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. I used to think I
<v Speaker 1>didn't have cheekbones, and then I started to stop drinking
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh, there they are so like
<v Speaker 1>I weirdly like, okay, so you never went through that,
<v Speaker 1>But I do remember the moment that I realized that
<v Speaker 1>I was like old, and it was like such a
<v Speaker 1>bizarre moment that just sticks in my head and and
<v Speaker 1>it's like stupid and almost not worth telling. But I
<v Speaker 1>was at a party and I stopped by a party
<v Speaker 1>for some reason I can't remember, and I was there
<v Speaker 1>for only like a short amount of time, and it
<v Speaker 1>was all like these young.
<v Speaker 2>Like hot people. It was a pool party.
<v Speaker 1>And they were like in bikinis and they were all
<v Speaker 1>like partying, and I left for whatever reason, and I
<v Speaker 1>just remember looking back at them, and I remember that
<v Speaker 1>song was playing from What the fuck are they called
<v Speaker 1>Owl something? It's not Owl Story, Well that's a terrible band.
<v Speaker 1>It was like your Owl No, that sne it at all.
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, it's that one song It's always a
<v Speaker 1>good time.
<v Speaker 2>Carlie Ray. Yeah. And then who's the people that she.
<v Speaker 5>Does it with? The band owl.
<v Speaker 2>City thank You.
<v Speaker 4>I've never heard of owl City or this song okay
<v Speaker 4>ol City thank.
<v Speaker 2>You, because I'm like, I don't know who that was.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know this song.
<v Speaker 1>So it was like really popular at the time, and
<v Speaker 1>it's very much like a young, you know, like party song.
<v Speaker 5>And I just remember and I remember like it.
<v Speaker 1>Was the sun was setting and it was filtering through
<v Speaker 1>the trees and there was like this dreamy haze all
<v Speaker 1>over everything, and it was sort of like the snapshot
<v Speaker 1>out of a movie. And I was like, I am
<v Speaker 1>no longer in that group, you know what I mean,
<v Speaker 1>Like I do not belong there at all.
<v Speaker 5>Think about it still.
<v Speaker 4>Isn't it weird though, because like it's weird. I mean
<v Speaker 4>it's hard to like put it into words, but it
<v Speaker 4>is a change that you can never go back to. Like,
<v Speaker 4>it is a very drastic thing. I don't think men
<v Speaker 4>face it as much.
<v Speaker 2>It's like laying in a tanning bed.
<v Speaker 4>I remember laying in a tanning bed in my twenties
<v Speaker 4>going I'll never wrinkle, you know. I mean it's just
<v Speaker 4>like you're so stupid, Yeah, and you don't realize that
<v Speaker 4>it will go and.
<v Speaker 2>It goes fast.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the future feels so far away. It does, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I meanmore, but yeah.
<v Speaker 5>I think about now.
<v Speaker 1>You know, like a teenager could turn to me and
<v Speaker 1>be like, get out of the way, you middle aged woman,
<v Speaker 1>and she would be right, yeah, no, I'm fucking middle aged.
<v Speaker 4>I was like, oh my god, I feel fifteen. Yeah,
<v Speaker 4>I feel like inside I'm fifteen.
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that it's because we spend so much
<v Speaker 1>time with younger people, like no, I think I just
<v Speaker 1>never like, you know, there's certain people that I feel
<v Speaker 1>like are women, and then there's people that I think
<v Speaker 1>are older that are still girls, and I feel like
<v Speaker 1>that's me.
<v Speaker 4>Like I still watch Dawson's Creek and I feel like
<v Speaker 4>I'm their age, you know, and.
<v Speaker 2>But I'm not.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I remember definitely when I started to get to
<v Speaker 1>the age where I became the same age as girls
<v Speaker 1>parent mom. Yes, that's hard, you know, And I'd be like, oh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, you remember Depeche Mode, right, And I'd be like,
<v Speaker 1>oh you're oh yeah, my mom's your age, And I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>are you fucking kidding me?
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yep.
<v Speaker 5>Okay.
<v Speaker 1>So you've been doing this now for over a decade.
<v Speaker 1>What do you think has changed the most in the industry,
<v Speaker 1>both for the better and for the worst. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>I guess we sort of covered that, but is there
<v Speaker 1>anything else that.
<v Speaker 2>Like the money?
<v Speaker 4>The money, I think it's like when I started, I
<v Speaker 4>felt like there was more. Look, there were still the
<v Speaker 4>studios that were shelling out a lot of money, but
<v Speaker 4>it felt like everyone had could be part of the game.
<v Speaker 4>And now the money is so vastly different between companies.
<v Speaker 4>Like I talked to somebody at one of the you
<v Speaker 4>know media adult media outlets that had no idea I
<v Speaker 4>was still shooting because I'm not shooting with a two
<v Speaker 4>hundred three hundred, four hundred five hundred thousand budgets. So
<v Speaker 4>like when it comes to AVN nominations or expis, like
<v Speaker 4>people don't even I'm not even a thought because I'm
<v Speaker 4>not doing anything that can compete with anyone anyway. So
<v Speaker 4>it's so different, like you're not even in the game anymore, right,
<v Speaker 4>you know, I'm in my own game, but I'm not
<v Speaker 4>part of the game of the industry.
<v Speaker 1>I remember talking to Quasar about how, you know, because
<v Speaker 1>he's like famous for working with like tiny budgets and
<v Speaker 1>you know, doing quite a bit with a small budget. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and we were saying there should be an award for
<v Speaker 1>like best Movie for budget, like I don't know, under
<v Speaker 1>like thirty thousand dollars or something like that. Yeah, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>how do you feel about the fact that there's such
<v Speaker 1>a drastic difference in budget that like certain directors get,
<v Speaker 1>and like how it affects, you know, what people think
<v Speaker 1>is like good porn.
<v Speaker 4>I think the thing I struggle with is that unless
<v Speaker 4>you're you know, of course, when you have these gigantic
<v Speaker 4>budgets and you're shooting in an airplane, you know, and
<v Speaker 4>the girls love it because they get great pictures and
<v Speaker 4>all this, you know, hooplah. It's it's still it's hard
<v Speaker 4>because I think there's still good porn that's done.
<v Speaker 2>I think I do good porn. It's just not on
<v Speaker 2>a budget.
<v Speaker 4>I'm not you know, buying Honey Burdette Lingerie for the girls.
<v Speaker 4>Like I'm shooting at the same porn houses, and we're
<v Speaker 4>just doing the best we can with the budgets we have.
<v Speaker 2>But I think that that.
<v Speaker 4>Gets lost, Like I think people tend to forget that,
<v Speaker 4>like money does not mean it's good.
<v Speaker 2>And that's not to say that it's not.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, like you look at Ricky Greenwood does amazing
<v Speaker 4>stuff and he gets huge budgets, but like there's people
<v Speaker 4>that get huge budgets that you're like, why are they
<v Speaker 4>getting so much money? But it's the companies that they
<v Speaker 4>work for. What would you do with a huge budget.
<v Speaker 4>I don't even know, because I feel like I'm in
<v Speaker 4>the quasar camp and like I've worked with low budgets
<v Speaker 4>for so long that I cannot imagine when people say
<v Speaker 4>they shot a porn for two hundred thousand dollars, I'm like,
<v Speaker 4>where did that money go? Because I don't see it
<v Speaker 4>on the film, Like maybe I see it in like
<v Speaker 4>the set deck that they have, Like there's people that
<v Speaker 4>have people set decking for them, Like I've never had
<v Speaker 4>that in my life, Like, I cannot even imagine having that.
<v Speaker 2>That would be crazy to me.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I think I would hire people like that
<v Speaker 4>and maybe wardrobe and maybe better locations.
<v Speaker 2>But I just don't think you need two hundred thousand
<v Speaker 2>dollars to shoot a porn movie.
<v Speaker 4>I shot a Showtime series four or three hundred thousand
<v Speaker 4>so and that was like a series.
<v Speaker 2>These people are shooting like one movie for that. It's
<v Speaker 2>crazy to me. I'm assuming that they submit the budgets
<v Speaker 2>to the company, yeah, I or money laundering.
<v Speaker 1>That doesn't happen mborn. So what do you consider good porn?
<v Speaker 1>What makes a good porn scene?
<v Speaker 4>For me? I think it's it's really feeling the connection
<v Speaker 4>and the tension between the people. I think the one
<v Speaker 4>thing I have learned working with Blessa that I never
<v Speaker 4>did before was I used to care so much about
<v Speaker 4>the story because I was doing features that all I
<v Speaker 4>cared about was the story, screw the sex, like all
<v Speaker 4>zone out during the sex.
<v Speaker 2>But with Blessa, it is about the sex.
<v Speaker 4>So I'm focusing on really like those moments and the
<v Speaker 4>tension and the sex that makes it hot. So for me,
<v Speaker 4>I think good porn is tension built up that carries
<v Speaker 4>through the entire scene, not just in the first two minutes.
<v Speaker 1>Now, you mentioned that you went through kind of like
<v Speaker 1>an identity crisis a little bit.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah when you so was it when you left New Sensations.
<v Speaker 2>I think it was like a gradual It took a
<v Speaker 2>few years, but.
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, when I when I was with New Sensations,
<v Speaker 4>like I was getting a lot of attention, you know,
<v Speaker 4>we were winning awards and I was getting interviews with
<v Speaker 4>you know, mainstream publications, and there was just a lot
<v Speaker 4>of attention. Like I remember, I think the identity crisis began,
<v Speaker 4>like you know, when I said the moment of when
<v Speaker 4>you feel old with porn, when I felt like it
<v Speaker 4>was over for.
<v Speaker 2>Me, was I was always the girl asked to do panels.
<v Speaker 4>This is so stupid, it's so sad, but it is
<v Speaker 4>so reflective of the reality, which was I was always
<v Speaker 4>like I was doing three or four panels.
<v Speaker 2>I was invited to AV and they were screening my movies.
<v Speaker 4>I was presenting like all this stuff, and then I
<v Speaker 4>was the backup panel girl where they called me because
<v Speaker 4>somebody else couldn't be there. And then I realized, oh,
<v Speaker 4>and you start to see like, oh, there's no more nominations,
<v Speaker 4>there's no more like the fact that the guy didn't
<v Speaker 4>even know I was shooting, and I fell into a
<v Speaker 4>deep depression because it's like hard to go from being
<v Speaker 4>kind of I don't want to see the it girl
<v Speaker 4>because I wasn't the it girl, but I was getting
<v Speaker 4>a lot of attention early and fast to go from
<v Speaker 4>that to you don't even get a nomination. Nobody's inviting
<v Speaker 4>you to the like nomination party, because of course why
<v Speaker 4>would you go. You're not even getting numbed. And I
<v Speaker 4>don't think awards are important, but I like being liked.
<v Speaker 4>It felt like I wasn't liked anymore. Like I felt
<v Speaker 4>like I wasn't that person, and that was hard because
<v Speaker 4>the wards, you know, that's meaningless. Really it truly is like,
<v Speaker 4>but being respective for what you do that's important, and
<v Speaker 4>I feel like I'm being remembered and being remembered and
<v Speaker 4>like I'm not even an afterthought, Like it's just it's
<v Speaker 4>funny because it's like wow, but you see it happen.
<v Speaker 4>I've seen it happen to other people too, and I
<v Speaker 4>often wonder, like, wonder if they're going through what I
<v Speaker 4>went through. M it's really hard to to feel like
<v Speaker 4>you're on top of the world, to feel like you're
<v Speaker 4>absolutely nobody.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, has that feeling changed for you?
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 4>Like I I started getting my I start, I said,
<v Speaker 4>do I want to? Like, I think you have to
<v Speaker 4>ask yourself, like, is this where I want my my
<v Speaker 4>world to be?
<v Speaker 2>So I want to be the remembered as a pornographer? No,
<v Speaker 2>I want to I want to do good things.
<v Speaker 4>So I started, I went to started going to grad
<v Speaker 4>school and I'll be graduating in March to get my
<v Speaker 4>masters in Marriage and Family therapy. And I've been practicing
<v Speaker 4>therapy on top of doing porn.
<v Speaker 1>So that's kind of my directing porn is kind of
<v Speaker 1>like sometimes it's doing therapy. Oh yeah, there are days
<v Speaker 1>that I've been a therapist and I'm sure you can relate.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah. Managing a lot of personalities, a lot
<v Speaker 2>of drama.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's hard, and I mean, I
<v Speaker 4>don't know if you've ever felt that way. I mean
<v Speaker 4>I think it's like for women, it's like age and
<v Speaker 4>then it's with me.
<v Speaker 2>Was this, I mean it was hard, Like I was
<v Speaker 2>very depressed.
<v Speaker 1>Well I've I mean, I've mentioned this before, but I
<v Speaker 1>went through the exact same experience pretty much. So there
<v Speaker 1>was a time in the summer that I was, in
<v Speaker 1>the same month fired from Playboy, like straight up fired.
<v Speaker 1>Cooper Hefner came in and he did not like me,
<v Speaker 1>and he would be kicked to the curb. Somebody not
<v Speaker 1>like you, is my question.
<v Speaker 2>That's so sweet. I mean I'm being honest, like, oh,
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm so annoying.
<v Speaker 4>Really yeah, okay, I don't know you on that level,
<v Speaker 4>like work wise, were you annoying?
<v Speaker 2>I just think I'm annoying. No, okay, okay, go on,
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, no, I just I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can't listen to this show. Who like
<v Speaker 1>people who have like listened to all four hundred and
<v Speaker 1>something of my episodes?
<v Speaker 2>What's wrong with you? You guys are great? Just kidding,
<v Speaker 2>I'm just kidding.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, anyways, you got fire Okay, so I got fired.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I have the screen grabs. The best part
<v Speaker 1>is I've told the stories so many times, so forgive
<v Speaker 1>me if you guys have heard this. But they accidentally
<v Speaker 1>sent me meeting notes, minute notes from a meeting, and
<v Speaker 1>in there they talked about firing me and they called
<v Speaker 1>me a bad producer, which wasn't true. Like you cannot
<v Speaker 1>like my style, you can think of annoying whatever, but
<v Speaker 1>I was not a bad producer. I had my shit together.
<v Speaker 1>My paperwork was fucking on top. I was on top
<v Speaker 1>of my paperwork, My shit was in on time. I
<v Speaker 1>did everything you wanted. My stuff looked good, like yeah, anyways,
<v Speaker 1>uh yeah, so that's how I found out.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, it was pretty I mean that was like.
<v Speaker 4>It is funny when you think about it now now
<v Speaker 4>it's funny, but at the time, oh, I'm sure.
<v Speaker 1>And you know how long it took me to work
<v Speaker 1>for Playboy, Like they slammed the door in my face
<v Speaker 1>for years? Wow, because I worked in porn, you know,
<v Speaker 1>even though my mother like was like one of the
<v Speaker 1>first female photographers there. Yeah, in fact, the first female
<v Speaker 1>photographer that was ever put on staff there. When I
<v Speaker 1>wanted to shoot for them. They were and this is
<v Speaker 1>back you know, when hef was like really running things.
<v Speaker 1>They were like, oh no, we don't want anything to
<v Speaker 1>do with you because you do porn, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Right, so you can't be talented.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well just like they they didn't want like the association,
<v Speaker 1>and also like they were very closed off, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and they had like all the people that they needed,
<v Speaker 1>and they had you know, all of that. I mean, look, hey,
<v Speaker 1>maybe they just didn't like my work too. I say
<v Speaker 1>it's because I did porn, but that may not be
<v Speaker 1>the reason. But anyways, you know, wouldn't like let me
<v Speaker 1>in the door. And then finally when it was my
<v Speaker 1>geek at the time is now Alu, when they took
<v Speaker 1>over running their website for a while, That's when I
<v Speaker 1>got in. And then I shot for them for like
<v Speaker 1>six seven years, and I was like their main producer.
<v Speaker 5>I did all their Cybergirls of the Year.
<v Speaker 2>We went to.
<v Speaker 1>Mexico, Costa Rica, like I did, you know, like some
<v Speaker 1>of the best work of.
<v Speaker 2>My I shot for Playboy.
<v Speaker 1>So anyways, and that was like the one thing that
<v Speaker 1>I could tell people that I shot for you know, well, like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I met my mother, my mother in law, I could
<v Speaker 1>be like, I shoot for a Playboy.
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to tell her I.
<v Speaker 1>Shoot for Pross, but I could tell her I shoot
<v Speaker 1>for Playboy and that was okay. So that and then
<v Speaker 1>Twisties just like kind of stop using me, like they
<v Speaker 1>know it was trickling.
<v Speaker 5>They were going through like a transition.
<v Speaker 1>They're like they're a completely different company now, but they
<v Speaker 1>went through a period where it was, you know, it
<v Speaker 1>was not the same anyways.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So so like my two main clients, like they're pretty
<v Speaker 1>much the only people I worked for, just gone like that,
<v Speaker 1>and I was like.
<v Speaker 2>What am I going to do now?
<v Speaker 1>You know? And I think this was also too when
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of the step Brother step Mother porn
<v Speaker 1>was like really getting up there and it was more
<v Speaker 1>and there wasn't like a lot of glamour no, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and that's my style. And I was like, I don't
<v Speaker 1>think there's a place for me anymore. And I was like,
<v Speaker 1>what am I going to do? Am I going to
<v Speaker 1>shoot mainstream? I mean I even started on Instagram that
<v Speaker 1>was like, you know, a different handle and like posted
<v Speaker 1>stuff up on there that wasn't I was like, I
<v Speaker 1>mean I could go worund with my portfolio and try
<v Speaker 1>to get work like you know what I mean, and
<v Speaker 1>then have to work with celebrities, which I don't want
<v Speaker 1>to know, Oh my god, no, thank you.
<v Speaker 5>I much rather work with porn stars. They're way easier
<v Speaker 5>to deal.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so I didn't I didn't know what to do,
<v Speaker 1>and I was so depressed. And then I was invited
<v Speaker 1>on a podcast for the boxing gym that I worked at,
<v Speaker 1>and I met Ernie and I was like, hey, if
<v Speaker 1>I like started a podcast, people are like doing this thing.
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, what do I like to do?
<v Speaker 1>Because I was trying to figure out, like how am
<v Speaker 1>I relevant? Like what else can I do besides you know, shooting?
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, well, I like to talk obviously,
<v Speaker 1>and like I know everybody in the industry, and I
<v Speaker 1>feel like they trust me. And I've always felt that
<v Speaker 1>if people, you know, people who judge sex workers, if
<v Speaker 1>they just knew them, if they just like spent a
<v Speaker 1>day with them, they just sat down and talked to them,
<v Speaker 1>they would realize that they are some of the funniest,
<v Speaker 1>most intelligent, most creative, inspirational like people, like they're incredible,
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're all sorts. And I was like, well,
<v Speaker 1>I feel like nobody really ever like talks to people
<v Speaker 1>like that. Why don't I try this podcast thing? I
<v Speaker 1>heard some people are doing it. I actually thought it
<v Speaker 1>was this was what seven years ago. I thought it
<v Speaker 1>was too late to get into the podcast game back then.
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, I know, it felt like I was coming
<v Speaker 1>like too late, and so yeah, so I started the
<v Speaker 1>show and I did not expect that it would be anything,
<v Speaker 1>and it ended up being the best thing I ever did.
<v Speaker 2>See.
<v Speaker 4>That's the thing it's like to get to where you
<v Speaker 4>feel that level of peace.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you kind of had to go through it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, and I try to remember that, you know,
<v Speaker 1>when I when I'm going through something that's really hard
<v Speaker 1>or really difficult, it's like, on the other side is
<v Speaker 1>something better always, and it's always like that as long
<v Speaker 1>as you can take whatever you're going through is like
<v Speaker 1>a learning experience.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but it's hard.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, And in the moment it's like almost impossible
<v Speaker 1>to see that for sure.
<v Speaker 2>But there's always like, you know, I think, what the
<v Speaker 2>phoenix like, you get a burn down.
<v Speaker 5>To the ashes rise up.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, So I really like absolutely relate like so
<v Speaker 1>much to to what you're saying.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so hard times hard times, but look at us
<v Speaker 4>we're doing.
<v Speaker 2>Look how great we're doing. I'm just so happy.
<v Speaker 5>I think also too, like in terms of shooting for me.
<v Speaker 1>And obviously this happened after I had been doing my
<v Speaker 1>podcast for a couple of years. Uh, once I had
<v Speaker 1>a kid, I found that I didn't care that much.
<v Speaker 2>Really.
<v Speaker 5>I was so surprised.
<v Speaker 1>I all, like, all the emotional effort and energy I
<v Speaker 1>put into like desiring awards and desiring all these accolades
<v Speaker 1>and wanting to really get to the top and you know,
<v Speaker 1>have everybody look up to me and you know, be this.
<v Speaker 5>Wonderful example of the industry.
<v Speaker 2>Once I had a kid, I just it doesn't matter.
<v Speaker 5>I just I just stopped. I literally just stopped caring.
<v Speaker 2>That's so yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And it was it was like that, and I could
<v Speaker 1>never get it back. I could never start caring again.
<v Speaker 4>Isn't that great though, because I look at these people,
<v Speaker 4>I see people crying.
<v Speaker 5>I didn't get on.
<v Speaker 2>Don't like, it really doesn't matter.
<v Speaker 4>It's not going to affect your paychecker. Dah da dah
<v Speaker 4>you know there's so much more. But yeah, but.
<v Speaker 1>I also kind of lost my passion for shooting, too,
<v Speaker 1>which kind of sucked.
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, you know what I mean. I lost that yet.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just once I just didn't, you know, I
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to spend twelve hours on set every day,
<v Speaker 1>and you will know, you know, I wanted to go
<v Speaker 1>home right to my kid. And I just, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>I still like and it got to the point where
<v Speaker 1>I would get like my order for a shoot, and
<v Speaker 1>you know, this is like when I was working for
<v Speaker 1>Twisties and like it was great. They were paying me
<v Speaker 1>more than I'd ever been paid by any other company.
<v Speaker 1>They gave me tons of creative control, they gave me
<v Speaker 1>a great budget. I was shooting beautiful girls, like my
<v Speaker 1>stuff looked awesome, like it was like the dream.
<v Speaker 2>Right. But every time I would get a production order,
<v Speaker 2>like my heart would sink. I'd be like, oh and
<v Speaker 2>I yeah, And I was like, what the fuck is
<v Speaker 2>wrong with me? Right?
<v Speaker 1>And I felt so angry with myself because I felt
<v Speaker 1>like ungrateful and I felt, you know, like.
<v Speaker 5>Really, just this is what you're who you're supposed to be.
<v Speaker 1>You're supposed to be this person that loves this, this
<v Speaker 1>is this was supposed to be your whole life, right,
<v Speaker 1>And I just and I would get to set and
<v Speaker 1>I would have.
<v Speaker 2>A great time of course, you know, love my crew,
<v Speaker 2>love the girls.
<v Speaker 1>This stuff would come out and I'd be so proud
<v Speaker 1>of it, so like, but it was always getting like
<v Speaker 1>the job and like, of course I want the job.
<v Speaker 2>I need the money. Like if I didn't get the job,
<v Speaker 2>that'd be bad. But like I couldn't stop that like
<v Speaker 2>sinking feeling it was really odd, which is a sign,
<v Speaker 2>which is a sign.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then I stopped shooting and I don't miss it, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>like at all.
<v Speaker 4>There was another woman in the business that said the
<v Speaker 4>same thing. When she stopped, she was like, I don't
<v Speaker 4>miss it at all, and I don't miss it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. She also had kids and that's where it happened
<v Speaker 2>for her. Yeah, yeah, don't do it. They change your life. No,
<v Speaker 2>I never will. These are these eggs are dried up people.
<v Speaker 2>You gonna have it.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I mean it was kind of disappointing because
<v Speaker 1>work had always been like the most important thing to
<v Speaker 1>me and it was everything, like that was my baby,
<v Speaker 1>right of course, and it was my identity.
<v Speaker 2>Then when it happened, I was like, okay, now what Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>now my.
<v Speaker 5>Identity is being a mom.
<v Speaker 1>Like great that No, I know but you know what
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Yes, idea, I would be one of those people.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, yes, so yeah. Do you want to see
<v Speaker 2>baby pictures after the past? I'm just kidding.
<v Speaker 4>I saw the well after the baby shower. You sent
<v Speaker 4>the picture of her with the doll or the bear.
<v Speaker 5>Oh, yes, with the little bear that she got.
<v Speaker 2>I know, I was so precious. No, I know, I know.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's get back to porn. If you had the
<v Speaker 1>power to reshape how porn is made, what is the
<v Speaker 1>one thing about the industry that you would get rid
<v Speaker 1>of first or change.
<v Speaker 2>I would say I would make the sex scenes five minutes.
<v Speaker 2>And it's not because I hate shooting a thirty mins. See,
<v Speaker 2>but I don't look at the end of the day.
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure if they do, if they're tracking, like on
<v Speaker 4>porn hub or whatever, like how much time people are
<v Speaker 4>actually watching the scene?
<v Speaker 2>Are they watching the duration of the scene.
<v Speaker 4>No, I'd be shocked if somebody's sitting there for the
<v Speaker 4>whole scene watching it like they're watching it to get off,
<v Speaker 4>And once they've gotten off, why are we doing another
<v Speaker 4>twenty five minutes?
<v Speaker 1>Well, here's the problem is because everybody wants a different
<v Speaker 1>part of the sine yeah, of course, some people want
<v Speaker 1>the blowjob, some people want the doggies, some people want
<v Speaker 1>the missionary.
<v Speaker 2>But that's why you got to shoot five minutes of
<v Speaker 2>each one.
<v Speaker 4>But I think that's men. Yeah, because if you look
<v Speaker 4>at like Nipho Maniac. I don't know if you watch that.
<v Speaker 4>It was on Netflix, but they did have like hardcore.
<v Speaker 4>I guess you could say like sex, like you saw
<v Speaker 4>penises and you know whatever. And I thought it was
<v Speaker 4>really sexy, and I think a lot of women probably
<v Speaker 4>would agree with me. And so the reason why I
<v Speaker 4>say that is I think it's like so much of
<v Speaker 4>it is is for the tube sides.
<v Speaker 2>It is to get chopped up. It's perfluous.
<v Speaker 4>So I would say, let's do good stuff movies or
<v Speaker 4>whatever that has sex, but not a thirty minute sex scene.
<v Speaker 1>I think it's also hard to like, I think as
<v Speaker 1>a filmmaker, you look at that, and nobody wants to
<v Speaker 1>watch thirty minutes of any one particular thing in a movie.
<v Speaker 1>You know, like every scene in a movie is like
<v Speaker 1>two minutes. You want to move on, like, okay, you
<v Speaker 1>get the point, like you got it, next scene, next scene,
<v Speaker 1>next scene, like keep the viewer engaged, keep the viewer active. Yes,
<v Speaker 1>like thirty minutes. It's a nice same thing. Oh my god,
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, does anybody have sex for thirty minutes?
<v Speaker 2>Is this just me?
<v Speaker 5>Oh god, I feel like that just seems so long?
<v Speaker 4>I know, right, I mean, hey, props to the people
<v Speaker 4>that do. But I'm like, God, there's so many things
<v Speaker 4>to do.
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, Oh my god, we should just do a
<v Speaker 1>series of like an old women gribing about born. No,
<v Speaker 1>we are not old. We're not old, We're just veterans.
<v Speaker 1>We are legends, is what we are. Legends for sure. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>what are you excited about out in the future of porn?
<v Speaker 5>Or are you afraid of?
<v Speaker 2>Well? AI? For sure. I think everyone's on that page.
<v Speaker 2>I think AI. I think what scares me about AI.
<v Speaker 2>And it's not just with porn's with everything.
<v Speaker 4>It's going to replace writers, it's going to replace a
<v Speaker 4>lot of things, you know, performers, because the AI can
<v Speaker 4>do whatever. I mean, it can do any position. It's
<v Speaker 4>not gonna get sore, it's whatever. So I think that
<v Speaker 4>that scares me.
<v Speaker 2>A lot. And the more it advances, I think, the
<v Speaker 2>more we're going to see it.
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that people though won't get won't enjoy
<v Speaker 1>it as much as real people because it's not a
<v Speaker 1>real person, and like on a deep level, like we
<v Speaker 1>desire that human connection.
<v Speaker 4>I think that our generation perhaps, what are you, Are
<v Speaker 4>you a millennial? No, I'm gen X, Okay, so I
<v Speaker 4>think our generation does. But like I there is a
<v Speaker 4>girl in the business that has an AI boyfriend and
<v Speaker 4>she was talking to me about it and it was
<v Speaker 4>so fascinating and I was.
<v Speaker 6>Just like, she was like, he is the greatest in
<v Speaker 6>the world, and she was just completely and I'm like,
<v Speaker 6>but it's not real, Like it's just saying, it's not
<v Speaker 6>emoting the way a real person would and she just
<v Speaker 6>doesn't it's not clicking in the sense of And there's
<v Speaker 6>a lot more people that are doing that, that have
<v Speaker 6>like chat GPT friend like their friend.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's becoming more and more common. So I
<v Speaker 2>don't know.
<v Speaker 4>I think younger generations might not have a problem with it.
<v Speaker 4>For me, yeah, I mean I want to see a
<v Speaker 4>real person, But I don't know. I think that it's
<v Speaker 4>an old way of viewing it to say they won't
<v Speaker 4>because it's not real.
<v Speaker 2>I think the younger generations might be fine with it.
<v Speaker 1>So this move into family therapy is a really good
<v Speaker 1>idea because all these people are going to be super
<v Speaker 1>fucked up because said you're moving on to the other side,
<v Speaker 1>where you gotta like, I mean, there's still going to
<v Speaker 1>need to be more therapist.
<v Speaker 2>There's not enough therapist right now. Yeah, for sure.
<v Speaker 4>I mean, and there of course there's people using chat
<v Speaker 4>GPT for therapy, but I feel like there's always going
<v Speaker 4>to be a need for therapy, at least for the
<v Speaker 4>older people.
<v Speaker 2>I'll take the old people on's mine. I'll take the
<v Speaker 2>old people. All right, Well, Jackie, thank you so much.
<v Speaker 2>I love you too.
<v Speaker 1>We do have questions from our Patreon members, which we
<v Speaker 1>will do in a separate segment. And if you are
<v Speaker 1>a Patreon member, you can send in your questions for
<v Speaker 1>my guests and obviously watch them give their answers. If
<v Speaker 1>you're not, you can't, so oh well, too bad for you.
<v Speaker 1>But you can also join at patreon dot com slash
<v Speaker 1>Holly Randall Unfiltered. It's like five dollars a month, so
<v Speaker 1>it's not that much. Jackie Darling, where can people find
<v Speaker 1>you online? Twitter or sorry x Instagram.
<v Speaker 4>It's all Jackie, Saint James, Jackie with a y Saint
<v Speaker 4>St James and then Jackie Saint James dot com which
<v Speaker 4>I never update, but you can see some old content,
<v Speaker 4>not sex content, but just you.
<v Speaker 5>Know, yeah, got it off.
<v Speaker 1>And you guys can find me on Instagram and on
<v Speaker 1>Twitter slash x at Holly Randall. I already gave you
<v Speaker 1>my Patreon plug. Go to hollylinks dot com for access
<v Speaker 1>to all of my platforms. Thank you guys so much
<v Speaker 1>for joining. I really appreciate you being here and I
<v Speaker 1>will see you on the next one.