Regulation Nation: Housing Edition

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- Welcome to the advocacy scoop,
the podcast that takes you

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inside the advocacy work
of the National Association

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of Realtors connecting NAR members

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with their advocates in
Washington for a front row seat

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to the fight for public policy
that strengthens the ability

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of Americans to access property ownership.

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- Hello everybody and welcome
to the advocacy scoop.

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I'm Patrick Newton here,

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with's Chief Advocacy Officer Shannon

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McGahn. Hello Shannon.

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- Hello Patrick.
- And this,

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this episode we're really excited about.

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It sounds like one of those things

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that's gonna be super boring,

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but it's actually, I think, gonna be one

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of our best episodes, regulate

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- Regulators.

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- How much did you love that

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song, how you would listen to it? Like,

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- Can we do karaoke later?
And I'll tell you how much

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- I wore out that cassette tape.

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We're gonna take a little bit

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of a dive into real estate regulation

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and how sort of impactful
that is on the industry

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and all of our members and the, and,

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and the way they do business

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and how, you know, you tackle

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that from an advocacy standpoint, Shannon.

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But before we get into all of
that, I mean, happy September.

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We've just wrapped up August recess is

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what we call it here in dc
but no recess for the weary.

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- Oh, absolutely. No recess.

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August was incredibly busy

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and now we are trudging forward on

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to the end of the fiscal year.

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So happy end of fiscal year coming up,

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- Patrick. That's right. I know that

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- You celebrate that every year.

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- I know. I, I have, every month

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of the year is like
correlated to me for something

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that Congress has to get done.

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That's just how my brain thinks.

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But yeah, we go straight into making sure

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NFIP doesn't have elapse.

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- Exactly. Yeah. So September's
going to be quite busy,

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but we have plenty to
cover before we get there.

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- Do you go anywhere fun over August?

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- Not really. It's been very, most people,

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their kids start school in August.

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We don't go back until after Labor Day.

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So it's a lot of managing kids camps

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and dealing with the DC heat.

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- Well I'm, I'm very sad to tell you

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that I am now pulled
ahead of you in our race

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to visit all the Disney
parks in the world.

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- Oh, do tell.
- I went to Hong Kong Disney, Ugh.

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- I didn't even get to
go to a Disney in August,

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but I did go in late July, so

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- I didn't even realize that
there was a Disney World

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where we were in Hong Kong and it was a

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total spur of the moment.

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Like we woke up and was
like, we have one more day.

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What are we gonna do today?
And we just stumbled on it.

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- Well, it's a small world after all. So,

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- And we went on that ride

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and it's exactly like the one here.

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It's basically the same
ride. So, but it was fun.

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It was fun. Anyway, so
enough about August.

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We'll talk about that a little
bit later in the episode.

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'cause I know you do wanna talk
about a lot of the meetings

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that we have with members of
Congress and stuff over August.

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But let's get back into the
real estate regulations.

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And so pop quiz Shannon, the
Federal code of regulations,

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I think it's the Code of
Federal Regulations is what it's

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how it's stated, but
like it's a real thing.

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There is literally a
book of every regulation

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that exists in the
United States federally,

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and it's like a living, breathing document

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that you can't slay.

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It's like a dragon.

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- Well, I do recall as a young
staffer on Capitol Hill that

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before press conferences we
would print out the regulations

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and then bring them in
those cardboard boxes.

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And we thought that was going
to just make such a huge

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impact at a press conference.

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And it turns out we didn't
really make front page

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of any newspaper,

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but it at least helped
me work on my strength

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to carry those boxes down the hall.

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- Well, the, the, the, the code

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of federal regulations in the
seventies was 70,000 pages.

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So how many pages I looked it up,

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do you think? It's up to now

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- 70 million pages

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- Now you've deflated my,
my stat 180,000 pages.

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- 11 million. Is that a number

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- I always had.

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My old boss used to say like,
with these numbers are so big

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that nobody can really like
wrap their minds around 'em.

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When you say 11 billion cajillion dollars,

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like nobody can really
wrap their mind around

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how much money these things are.

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But like, so I broke it down a little bit.

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180,000 pages, that's a three
story building that's as tall

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as a Tyrannosaurus Rex
and it's like reading War

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and Peace 140 times.

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- Well, I didn't read it one time,

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but is there a podcast version of,

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- Is there a CliffNotes

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- Version, a CliffNotes podcast that

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I could, I could listen to?

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Well, what we're gonna do today is provide

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that CliffNotes podcast for
what is related to real estate

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and housing, and in particular
the, the consumer transaction

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that occurs in all of these regulations

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- And, and buying and selling property.

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It's not just the most expensive
transaction of your life

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and impactful, it's also the
most regulated transaction.

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I mean there's enormous
consequences not just for access to,

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to housing, but consumer protections

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and you know,

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just look at the closing
documents that you signed.

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- Oh, exactly. And every person listening

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to this is familiar with
what happens at closing

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and just for residential deals,

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we're looking at closing contracts

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that average a hundred pages,

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but they could be upwards of
300 pages depending on the

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state and local legal requirements

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and the terms of that
particular transaction.

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So in every deal you're
going to see 10 to 30 pages

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of a final purchase
agreement, a loan application,

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another dozen or so pages.

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Security instrument is
another two dozen pages.

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The notes is a few pages,
settlement statement,

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lender affidavits, all of
these things are adding up

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to close to a hundred if not more pages.

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And people are often like, oh, hey,

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well I'll just DocuSign those and see.

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But no, there's, with every single one

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of those pages is some sort
of regulation, some sort

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of government interaction,
some sort of contract law.

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And that is where the
realtor gets involved.

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- And that's the, the spread
of, you know, a hundred

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to maybe even 300 pages is

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because regulations can vary
widely from state to state,

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but also, you know,
whether there's mortgage

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requirements and things like that.

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But I mean like, don't even
get me started on commercial.

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'cause that can go up to what,

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- Oh, so commercial deals,

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those contracts are easily
triple, if not more,

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they can run up to a
thousand pages or more

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because you're looking at lease provisions

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and zoning, environmental
regulations and financing.

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And so these documents

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that are at the closing
table are a byproduct

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of some regulation that's
aimed at preventing fraud,

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protecting consumers and
ensuring that there is proper tax

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and legal compliance.

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And chances are that the
National Association of Realtors

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or one of the state

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and local associations
were involved in working

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with policymakers and other regulators

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and government officials on
how they are implemented,

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how they're working, how they may not be

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working and need to be changed.

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So it's a very important
job that we do here.

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- Yeah, and that's Brian
Green's team here, you know,

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on your, on your advocacy
team, he came over from hud,

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he was 20 years career at
HUD before coming to NAR.

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We're so lucky to have him,

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but I mean we have that A
to Z doc we're covering,

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we have all of this covered.

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I mean we have, you know,
two floors of policy analysts

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who are, who are on this stuff 24 7.

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- Oh, absolutely. So Brian,
I was the vice president

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of policy advocacy.

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A lot of folks are like, what do you mean

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by policy advocacy?

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Well, for each one of these issues,

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we have subject matter experts
over a dozen subject matter

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experts who work here in our DC office.

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And their job is to follow all
of these federal regulations

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and to work directly with the regulators.

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So things like the Truth

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and Lending Act, the Real Estate
Settlement Procedures Act,

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which we all know is RESPA

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and tila Dodd-Frank Act, which
really changed how, I mean,

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financing was working and,

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and what the, the housing market,

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how things were going to
proceed in the future.

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- We were both on the hill
when that, that passed. And you

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probably had a big hand in
that at financial services.

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- Oh, absolutely. So I
started on the hill, returned

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to the hill back when
that was being considered

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and being passed and, and
just seeing that over the,

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the decade plus of
years of, of work there,

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how much things like
qualified mortgage rule

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with their impact on who
is eligible for mortgage

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and who isn't the Fair Housing Act,

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the Fair Credit Reporting Act,

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anti-money laundering
regulations, these are all things

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that our team is working
on day in and day out.

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And in particular we
are hearing from folks

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around the country on, Hey, we see

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that this new document came out

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and it's not working well for our clients.

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Can you contact the regulator?

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And we will, we'll reach out

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and say, can you please
take a meeting and,

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and see that there are concerns here.

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And that's another way
that we can make sure

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that we're advocating directly.

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- And you know, real world
example of this crossed my inbox,

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literally today a member
approached someone, a member,

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someone from our leadership
with a question about a new reg

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having to do with the way
international transactions

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are done for housing.

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And Evan, our tax policy analyst,

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was like within 30 minutes
had the answer back to them

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and an analysis on it.
So it's like weird. That

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- Would be ferta.

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- Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I mean there's

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- An acronym for everything too.

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- And that literally came through
my inbox like an hour ago.

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So it's like this is a rolling constant

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thing that we monitor.

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- And Patrick, you mentioned
an important document

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that exists on our advocacy
resources and, and website,

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but the A to Z document,
so any issue under the sun

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that the advocacy team is
working on from the letters A

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through Z, we have a very
quick, easily digestible summary

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of what the issue is
and what our position is

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and what the latest actions
are that are happening.

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So please check that out.

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- And we are making sure
that's all updated right now

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because we, we constantly
monitor all those issue pages

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and make sure they're, they're updated. So

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- Along with our advocacy impact page,

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do you wanna tell our dear your

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listeners about that new? Oh

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- Yeah, just check out advocacy
impact realtor, a new sort

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of a vanity URL that's easier
to remember that has a lot of,

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that chronicles a lot of our,
our work that we're doing

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and the impact that it's

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having on the industry and our members.

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So another way to keep track,

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- Right?

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- Yeah. - Well and we just this
past month hosted new state

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and local AEs and Gads

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00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,720
and so for those of you who
are not liking the acronyms

253
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,150
that we throw out there,
association executives

254
00:10:00,150 --> 00:10:02,040
and government affairs directors.

255
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,170
And so those are folks who
are working at the state

256
00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:07,860
and local level and at the
state level there are many more

257
00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:11,550
regulations including those
regarding property taxes,

258
00:10:11,550 --> 00:10:15,030
local zoning ordinances,
environmental restrictions.

259
00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:18,240
There are many state
specific disclosure laws.

260
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,670
So when you're working on
things like mold or lead paint

261
00:10:20,670 --> 00:10:23,460
or radon, there are federal
regulations and, and, and,

262
00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:27,540
and state ones, water rights,
easements, mineral rights,

263
00:10:27,540 --> 00:10:29,730
all things that our state
associations are involved with.

264
00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:31,140
And sometimes we can help.

265
00:10:31,140 --> 00:10:34,290
- Well, let's start at
the very beginning, state

266
00:10:34,290 --> 00:10:36,330
and local work our way back up to federal,

267
00:10:36,330 --> 00:10:38,010
because I'm glad you mentioned that we,

268
00:10:38,010 --> 00:10:40,920
when we're looking at state
regulations, that can vary sort

269
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,900
of wildly, you know, some
states have more than others and

270
00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:48,120
and how, how does that
fit into the picture?

271
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,520
- Which state do you think has
the most regulations when it

272
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,520
- Comes to the crack?

273
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,640
I mean, I could guess,
but I don't wanna like,

274
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:54,870
I don't wanna throw shade.

275
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:57,420
- Well, they can be good regulations.

276
00:10:57,420 --> 00:10:59,880
They're not, we're not judging
which ones are good or bad,

277
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,130
but, and you're just the
pure quantity of those

278
00:11:02,130 --> 00:11:03,810
- Regulations and you're
a hundred percent crack.

279
00:11:03,810 --> 00:11:05,760
We're not dissing regulations.

280
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,620
I I don't want it to sound
like that's what we're doing.

281
00:11:07,620 --> 00:11:09,870
We're we're talking about
the fine line that we walk

282
00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:12,210
between ensuring consumers are protected

283
00:11:12,210 --> 00:11:14,430
and not inhibiting access to housing.

284
00:11:14,430 --> 00:11:16,560
And the one good example is
this is the National Association

285
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,980
of Home Builders actually
had a study recently

286
00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:22,380
that said 25% of the cost

287
00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:24,750
of building a home is regulations is

288
00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:25,920
compliant with regulations.

289
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,990
- Yes. And we use that
number in that study

290
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:29,940
and many of our communications materials.

291
00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:32,430
And then when it comes to multi-family

292
00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:35,490
and rental units, that
number goes up to a third

293
00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:37,140
of the costs in regulations.

294
00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:40,890
And so many times that is
increasing the price of housing

295
00:11:40,890 --> 00:11:43,140
because that has to be paid at some point.

296
00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:45,090
And so it is an important area to know

297
00:11:45,090 --> 00:11:47,310
where those regulations
are protecting the consumer

298
00:11:47,310 --> 00:11:49,800
or where they are
unnecessarily driving up costs.

299
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:50,940
- Right, okay. So state

300
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:54,490
and local ordinances, we
have this one stat in 2024,

301
00:11:54,490 --> 00:11:56,380
our policy team here
pulled these stats up,

302
00:11:56,380 --> 00:12:00,880
but like state houses
introduced 87,000 bills in 2024

303
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,660
compared to just 20,000 in the
US Congress in the same year.

304
00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:06,820
So a lot's going on

305
00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:07,820
- Just
- 20,000.

306
00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:10,840
- Just 20,000. It's just, it's
a small number compared. So

307
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,060
- I mean, but how many of
those are post office namings?

308
00:12:13,060 --> 00:12:15,940
- That's true. And
those are typically very

309
00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:17,620
bipartisan, very easy to pass,

310
00:12:17,620 --> 00:12:19,570
- But there's a lot to
monitor there on the ground.

311
00:12:19,570 --> 00:12:23,590
So I, my question to you is
like how do we keep apprised of,

312
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:25,720
of what's happening
like on state and local?

313
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,630
- Well that is one of the
most important aspects

314
00:12:28,630 --> 00:12:29,950
of the three-way agreement.

315
00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:32,680
And knowing that in every
zip code, every locality

316
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,050
that we have an association that's working

317
00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:37,480
with their state association
that is also working

318
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,970
with the national association to identify

319
00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:41,500
where these things are moving.

320
00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:44,770
Do we have policy that would
address this? Do we support it?

321
00:12:44,770 --> 00:12:46,450
Would we have opposition to it?

322
00:12:46,450 --> 00:12:47,725
And where can we ensure

323
00:12:47,725 --> 00:12:50,320
that we're putting the right
resources behind those issues?

324
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,750
So when we have the, the
tracker that you mentioned,

325
00:12:52,750 --> 00:12:56,260
Patrick, and there are
many municipalities,

326
00:12:56,260 --> 00:13:01,030
I think there were over
150,000 proposed ordinances

327
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:02,050
in 2024.

328
00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:04,780
So when we're looking at
our overall advocacy efforts

329
00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:08,140
and folks say, well that's
a a a lot of resources going

330
00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:11,260
to the national association,
we remind folks that our job is

331
00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:12,400
to make sure that the state

332
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,950
and local associations are
getting that attention.

333
00:13:14,950 --> 00:13:19,480
And that's through things like
zoning and land use decisions

334
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,370
and making sure that they
have the right studies

335
00:13:21,370 --> 00:13:24,640
and research and resources behind that.

336
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,200
Looking at things like
their building codes

337
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,050
and safety standards and
what are best practices,

338
00:13:29,050 --> 00:13:30,970
property taxes and assessments.

339
00:13:30,970 --> 00:13:32,950
That's an issue that's popping up more

340
00:13:32,950 --> 00:13:35,950
and more around the country
that property taxes are just

341
00:13:35,950 --> 00:13:37,090
becoming too punitive

342
00:13:37,090 --> 00:13:39,190
and it's difficult for
people to stay in their home

343
00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:44,980
rental ordinances and eviction
processes and just who

344
00:13:44,980 --> 00:13:46,780
and when can you evict?

345
00:13:46,780 --> 00:13:48,190
That's a very sensitive issue

346
00:13:48,190 --> 00:13:51,220
and one that we are working
on throughout the country

347
00:13:51,220 --> 00:13:53,740
to make sure that that
tenants are protected.

348
00:13:53,740 --> 00:13:55,300
But that we also have the ability

349
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:57,400
for those housing providers to make sure

350
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,010
that they can stay in business.

351
00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:02,590
Things like property managers and buyers

352
00:14:02,590 --> 00:14:04,120
and sellers who are
working in those fields.

353
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,400
- And that affects everyone,
you know, property owners,

354
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,350
developers, contractors,
builders, landlords,

355
00:14:08,350 --> 00:14:11,050
I mean buyer sellers, the
whole, the whole gamut there.

356
00:14:11,050 --> 00:14:13,690
But which you're talking
about local ordinances.

357
00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:18,220
So let's step up one level and
talk about state regulations.

358
00:14:18,220 --> 00:14:21,520
So like how does states regulate
real estate differently?

359
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:22,960
- Well, and that's a,
a very important issue

360
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,790
because when you're
looking at the licensing

361
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:26,590
and professional conduct of agents

362
00:14:26,590 --> 00:14:31,150
and brokers, that is
regulated at the state level.

363
00:14:31,150 --> 00:14:32,380
Many of the disclosures

364
00:14:32,380 --> 00:14:35,320
and consumer protections
are also at the state level.

365
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,200
Things like title practices and escrow

366
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,420
and compliance with state tax rules,

367
00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:42,100
those are all handled at the state level.

368
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:43,570
And that's why our, our team

369
00:14:43,570 --> 00:14:47,110
of state gads government affairs
directors work very closely

370
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:49,180
with our subject matter experts

371
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:50,770
and we're always prepared

372
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:52,790
to see when these changes are happening.

373
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:55,280
- So who falls under
state oversight other than

374
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:56,630
agents and brokers?

375
00:14:56,630 --> 00:14:58,310
- Oh, and that's an important question

376
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:59,630
because when you're looking at

377
00:14:59,630 --> 00:15:03,740
how expensive a transaction
is, what looking to to sell

378
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:05,240
or purchase a property

379
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,840
and just the vast amount of
regulations that happen there,

380
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,620
it's not just what is being
regulated but who, so agents

381
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:16,640
and brokers, as you mentioned,
appraisers are also there.

382
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,450
Title companies, mortgage
brokers and lenders.

383
00:15:20,450 --> 00:15:24,020
And then many of the attorneys
who are maybe required

384
00:15:24,020 --> 00:15:26,900
for closings also
regulated by the state bar.

385
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:28,940
So pretty much everyone who is involved in

386
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:31,130
that real estate transaction is under some

387
00:15:31,130 --> 00:15:32,570
sort of a state regulation.

388
00:15:32,570 --> 00:15:35,180
- Okay. And then, and then
taking a step, you know,

389
00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:37,760
up from there back to the
federal level, which is,

390
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,460
I'm admittedly a little bit
more familiar with just being,

391
00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:42,380
you know, living and
working in DC for so long.

392
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:45,740
But you know, what role does
the federal government play in

393
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:47,000
regulating real estate?

394
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,610
'cause it seems like transactionally, it's

395
00:15:49,610 --> 00:15:51,350
so focused on local,

396
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:54,530
but the federal government
plays a big role as well.

397
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:56,150
- Well, and it's interesting
because when you speak

398
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:57,380
with federal officials

399
00:15:57,380 --> 00:15:59,330
and you talk about the
real estate transaction,

400
00:15:59,330 --> 00:16:00,590
they're very quick to say, well

401
00:16:00,590 --> 00:16:02,720
that's primarily done at the state level.

402
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,000
And then we come back and say, well,

403
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,560
the federal government does have an

404
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,270
important role to play here.

405
00:16:08,270 --> 00:16:09,860
That's everything from fair housing

406
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:13,040
and anti-discrimination
enforcement that's happening at HUD

407
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,130
or at DOJ mortgage financing
and disclosures and,

408
00:16:16,130 --> 00:16:18,290
and the servicing of those mortgages, EPA,

409
00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:22,160
environmental rules, fema,
flood zones, we're all familiar

410
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,590
with that coming up soon.

411
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:26,630
The National Flood
Insurance Program is set

412
00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:28,040
to expire at the end of September.

413
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,890
So stay tuned for a potential
call for action there.

414
00:16:30,890 --> 00:16:32,510
And then, as we mentioned with Dodd-Frank,

415
00:16:32,510 --> 00:16:34,700
increasingly the consumer protections

416
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:37,010
through the Consumer
Financial Protection Bureau

417
00:16:37,010 --> 00:16:38,780
through RESPA as we mentioned earlier,

418
00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:40,400
another Dodd-Frank changes,

419
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,200
and then also at a topic

420
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,690
that we have been very
active on this summer

421
00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:47,240
as the tax treatment of properties

422
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,900
and those transactions, such
things as the capital gains tax

423
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:52,910
and IRS regulations. So

424
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:54,165
- Yeah, and we talked
about that in the, in

425
00:16:54,165 --> 00:16:57,290
that last episode about what
comes next for real estate

426
00:16:57,290 --> 00:17:00,800
because, you know, once the
tax bill was passed, the IRS

427
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,580
and, and the, the regulatory
site gets to work on that.

428
00:17:04,580 --> 00:17:06,770
So we, we got into, into
that a little bit last month.

429
00:17:06,770 --> 00:17:08,780
But you know, just to
underscore your point,

430
00:17:08,780 --> 00:17:09,800
you know I looked this up.

431
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,670
So there's 50 titles in the
Code of Federal regulations.

432
00:17:13,670 --> 00:17:15,440
So basically like 50 chapters

433
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,650
and about 10 of those deal
directly with real estate.

434
00:17:18,650 --> 00:17:20,930
And then of course that's directly

435
00:17:20,930 --> 00:17:23,515
and then it's also broached
in many other ways and forms

436
00:17:23,515 --> 00:17:25,460
and, and throughout the,
the code of regulation.

437
00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:27,200
So it's, it's baked in there.

438
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,750
- And when we're looking at
the who, not just the, what

439
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:31,280
that's regulated at the state level,

440
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,930
the same thing happens
at the federal level.

441
00:17:32,930 --> 00:17:37,280
So lenders and mortgage RS
are regulated by the CFPB,

442
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,740
the FDIC and HUD rules, banks

443
00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:42,170
and financial institutions
by federal lending

444
00:17:42,170 --> 00:17:44,690
and disclosure laws,
real estate professionals

445
00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:47,420
through Fair Housing Act
compliance developers

446
00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:48,620
and builders through many

447
00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:50,790
of the environmental compliance programs.

448
00:17:50,790 --> 00:17:52,080
And then of course buyers

449
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,950
and sellers buy our favorite
IRS rules, capital gains,

450
00:17:55,950 --> 00:17:58,650
things like 10 31 exchanges.

451
00:17:58,650 --> 00:18:00,600
And also things like
lead paint disclosures

452
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,180
that we hear from our folks all the time

453
00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:04,920
that those forms need to
be updated or changed.

454
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,410
And those are exactly the kinds
of things that we work with.

455
00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:09,210
- So how does this work
on the federal level?

456
00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:11,850
Like they ask for a public comment

457
00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:14,460
or do we see regulations coming?

458
00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:15,720
Do we know they're coming or do,

459
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,640
do we get blindsided by them?

460
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,410
I mean, I mean tell me how it works.

461
00:18:19,410 --> 00:18:22,200
- We are, we are thankfully
not supposed to be blindsided

462
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,260
by them that the way that
the regulatory law works and

463
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:27,810
and the process works is
that there is a notice

464
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:29,040
of proposed rulemaking

465
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,740
and then we have the opportunity
for public commentary.

466
00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:32,940
So examples of that

467
00:18:32,940 --> 00:18:35,610
that have happened somewhat
recently are things like the

468
00:18:35,610 --> 00:18:38,430
Federal Housing Finance
Administration looking at ways

469
00:18:38,430 --> 00:18:41,790
to further regulate housing
providers in potentially

470
00:18:41,790 --> 00:18:44,070
charging them or restricting their ability

471
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:45,300
to increase rents.

472
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:47,880
And so we put out kind of a
call for action, if you will, on

473
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,590
what that public
commentary could look like

474
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:52,440
and how that might actually
have the opposite effect

475
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,990
and increase the cost
of rent in many areas.

476
00:18:54,990 --> 00:18:58,380
And we were able to push back
on those rent control efforts.

477
00:18:58,380 --> 00:18:59,490
Those things happen all the time,

478
00:18:59,490 --> 00:19:03,330
but sometimes depending on
the agency you'll see, hey,

479
00:19:03,330 --> 00:19:05,250
we're just gonna abandon this now

480
00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:07,530
or we're just gonna go
ahead and push this through

481
00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:08,700
and then see what happens.

482
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:12,690
And that's when we also
have to be extra cautious

483
00:19:12,690 --> 00:19:13,710
of those actions

484
00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:16,410
and involved very quickly so that team

485
00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:18,210
of subject matter experts who works day in

486
00:19:18,210 --> 00:19:20,430
and day out directly
with those regulators.

487
00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:21,690
And it's important to note, we work

488
00:19:21,690 --> 00:19:24,570
with Congress on the
oversight of those regulators.

489
00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:27,930
So each committee in Congress
actually has, is tasked

490
00:19:27,930 --> 00:19:30,210
with the job of looking
into those agencies

491
00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:32,400
and making sure that they
are following the law

492
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,020
and that they're actually doing it

493
00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:35,040
the way that they're supposed to.

494
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,530
So if we have a problem, we have recourse

495
00:19:37,530 --> 00:19:39,780
and going to Congress and
saying they're not following the

496
00:19:39,780 --> 00:19:42,480
rulemaking process, we don't
think that this is something

497
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,550
that Congress gave them
the authority to do.

498
00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:47,550
What oversight can we do
or as a lawsuit needed.

499
00:19:47,550 --> 00:19:49,890
That was the eviction moratorium
lawsuit was one of those.

500
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,920
- Yeah, and I'm glad you brought
this up the way it meshes

501
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,650
with Congress because there
was a Supreme Court case

502
00:19:55,650 --> 00:19:58,620
recently where they
broach federal regulations

503
00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:01,260
and it's something along
the lines of you can't have

504
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,750
so much latitude in
interpreting federal regs.

505
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:05,910
Congress needs to be a little
bit more specific when they

506
00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:07,140
pass these things.

507
00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:10,470
- Yes, Patrick, that was a
very big Supreme Court case,

508
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:11,490
Loper versus Bright,

509
00:20:11,490 --> 00:20:15,360
which essentially ended the
Chevron deference, which meant

510
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,030
that courts would give
agencies deference to say,

511
00:20:18,030 --> 00:20:20,100
you know this what you're
trying to do better.

512
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:21,210
And so we're gonna go ahead

513
00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:24,510
and say what you did is
probably the right thing to do.

514
00:20:24,510 --> 00:20:25,920
Congress didn't like that so much

515
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:27,930
because Congress wants
to say we are the ones

516
00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:30,150
who gave you the authority with this law

517
00:20:30,150 --> 00:20:32,250
and you need to apply
it the way that we say.

518
00:20:32,250 --> 00:20:34,860
So this way we at least know

519
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:37,230
that those regulations
aren't always a final word

520
00:20:37,230 --> 00:20:39,540
and there is more ability
for Congress to get involved.

521
00:20:39,540 --> 00:20:40,860
- Regulators are gonna regulate.

522
00:20:42,150 --> 00:20:45,540
Alright, well thank you for
giving us this primer on

523
00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:47,860
how these work local, state and federal.

524
00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:50,590
But with all that said, I kind
of wanna just tick through,

525
00:20:50,590 --> 00:20:52,450
we're not gonna get too
in the weeds about this,

526
00:20:52,450 --> 00:20:55,000
but some examples

527
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,760
of the regulatory work you've
done perhaps in the past year.

528
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,740
And I think that the one
that comes top of mind

529
00:20:59,740 --> 00:21:03,520
to me is the veterans
agent compensation issue

530
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,290
that we pounced on.

531
00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:06,730
- Well that is a great one.

532
00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:08,320
And before I jump into that, all

533
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,560
of these are available on
advocacy impact realtor

534
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,020
and so you can see where
these wins occurred.

535
00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:17,020
But yes, very quickly

536
00:21:17,020 --> 00:21:19,930
after the settlement was
announced, there was a concern

537
00:21:19,930 --> 00:21:23,620
that veterans may not have the
same ability to have access

538
00:21:23,620 --> 00:21:25,240
to the use of a real estate professional

539
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,310
because of not a rule that was made,

540
00:21:27,310 --> 00:21:30,010
but guidance that was in a handbook.

541
00:21:30,010 --> 00:21:32,830
That's not something that's
really con contemplated in Loper

542
00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:34,690
versus Bright and Chevron deference.

543
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:37,330
And so we went to the VA

544
00:21:37,330 --> 00:21:38,620
and said, would you be able

545
00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:42,550
to change this handbook
reference in order to ensure

546
00:21:42,550 --> 00:21:44,380
that veterans have the ability

547
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:46,600
to hire a real estate professional?

548
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,720
And they did. And then we were able to,

549
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,150
through legislation win a permanent fix

550
00:21:52,150 --> 00:21:55,630
so veterans can directly
compensate agents.

551
00:21:55,630 --> 00:21:57,940
And so we're still working with
the VA to push to ease some

552
00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:00,220
of those loan rules like
fees and inspections

553
00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:02,350
and things that could
also hurt competitiveness.

554
00:22:02,350 --> 00:22:04,330
But that was a very quick

555
00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:08,285
and meaningful win that
resulted in congress. Well

556
00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:10,690
- You, you just said an
important word, guidance.

557
00:22:10,690 --> 00:22:12,820
So what is the difference

558
00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:17,680
between a regulation guidance
and like an executive order?

559
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,990
I mean all on the same, I mean
they're coming from the top.

560
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:21,460
- Well all of that's being litigated.

561
00:22:21,460 --> 00:22:23,650
So we're, we're learning the
difference between all of that

562
00:22:23,650 --> 00:22:25,930
but, but guidance is often something

563
00:22:25,930 --> 00:22:28,960
that is a softer version of
what that regulation would be

564
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,180
and this is how the agency is interpreting

565
00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:33,520
and how they're directing their own staff

566
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,620
to manage through that process.

567
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:38,020
- But the way we respond to that is one

568
00:22:38,020 --> 00:22:40,000
and the same sort of, or is it,

569
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,710
- Well we, we, we honor that guidance

570
00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:44,020
and when you're working with
them, but at the same time you

571
00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:47,380
can push back on guidance a
lot better than you can on

572
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:49,510
something that's gone through
that rulemaking process.

573
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:52,000
So, and you can go to Congress, which is

574
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,300
what we successfully did is
going to key members of Congress

575
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,390
and saying, this is guidance,
this guidance is not working,

576
00:22:58,390 --> 00:23:01,090
it's certainly not working
for the direct consumer,

577
00:23:01,090 --> 00:23:04,480
the VA borrower and how can
we get this changed quickly?

578
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,770
And that worked.

579
00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:08,050
- Okay. Well a few of the
other regulatory issues we've

580
00:23:08,050 --> 00:23:10,960
worked on, energy efficiency
is a big one, right?

581
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,720
- Oh yeah. So our position
on these energy efficiency

582
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,230
mandates is that we support
safe cost effective codes

583
00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:20,200
but oppose any type of
rigid federal mandates

584
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,340
that will raise costs

585
00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:22,630
and maybe not deliver the same

586
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:24,550
results that they're expecting.

587
00:23:24,550 --> 00:23:27,010
So more voluntary and
incentive-based solutions.

588
00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:28,900
So we've been fighting for that.

589
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:29,920
One of the big ones

590
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,250
that we have been working on
over several congresses that

591
00:23:33,250 --> 00:23:35,380
for some reason doesn't get
a lot of media attention,

592
00:23:35,380 --> 00:23:38,590
but it's a very important
issue is protecting the

593
00:23:38,590 --> 00:23:40,480
independent contractor status.

594
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,570
Over 90% of realtors are
independent contractors,

595
00:23:43,570 --> 00:23:45,920
which is core to the business model.

596
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,760
And when we pull members of
NAR, they say that is a feature,

597
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,560
not a bug that they are in this profession

598
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,720
because they want to be
independent contractors.

599
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,300
So we had the Department of Labor working

600
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:59,780
to provide some more clarity
and preserve this choice.

601
00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:02,000
It's been kind of up in the air

602
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,120
for the last several congresses
where it's been a priority

603
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,190
to remove independent contractor status.

604
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:09,800
And we were successful in
having legislation introduced

605
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,450
that would preserve the ability

606
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,250
for real estate agents in particular

607
00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:15,050
to still be independent contractors.

608
00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:16,790
But it's something that
comes up quite a bit at the

609
00:24:16,790 --> 00:24:17,930
state level as well.

610
00:24:17,930 --> 00:24:19,220
And we still have to keep an eye on.

611
00:24:19,220 --> 00:24:20,690
- Mm, we did a lot of work.

612
00:24:20,690 --> 00:24:22,550
I remember one of, when I first came here,

613
00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:24,440
this was I think one of the
first things that popped up,

614
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,710
but the condo rule FHA and

615
00:24:27,710 --> 00:24:32,480
- Yes, so the FHA has some
pretty strict rules on

616
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,690
how to determine lending for condos.

617
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:38,840
And we worked to loosen
restrictions on the commercial space

618
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,420
so we could have more
openings for owner occupancy

619
00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:43,970
and investor ownership
for many first time,

620
00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:45,440
first generation home buyers

621
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,210
who are just entering the market.

622
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:48,710
A condo is a great purchase for them.

623
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:51,650
It's a way to get onto that
property ownership ladder

624
00:24:51,650 --> 00:24:54,080
and modernizing those outdated rules so

625
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,450
that more condos will qualify for

626
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:59,420
that first time homeowner at HA financing

627
00:24:59,420 --> 00:25:00,890
was another big victory.

628
00:25:00,890 --> 00:25:04,010
- And you know, multifamily as well.

629
00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:06,110
We do a lot of work on that regulatorily.

630
00:25:06,110 --> 00:25:09,140
- Oh, exactly. And in
particular on the environmental

631
00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:10,700
reviews and wage rules

632
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,490
because as you mentioned
with the home builders there,

633
00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:15,620
there, there are stats
that that is increasing,

634
00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:18,650
these regulations are increasing
the cost by up to a third.

635
00:25:18,650 --> 00:25:20,960
So reforming some of the rules

636
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,940
that could discourage new housing

637
00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:24,080
and close that pipeline

638
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,760
for folks getting into
multifamily housing,

639
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,170
that was another big issue.

640
00:25:27,170 --> 00:25:28,310
- And at Flyin realtor

641
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:31,880
where we keep our federal
legislative priorities updated

642
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,680
and, and obviously housing affordability

643
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,400
and supply has been one for EV
for you know, multiple years.

644
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,120
But we do work on the supply

645
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:42,860
and affordability on the regulatory side.

646
00:25:42,860 --> 00:25:44,120
So what are some of the measures

647
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,910
that you've taken there to address supply?

648
00:25:46,910 --> 00:25:48,710
- So inventory being the number one issue

649
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:50,330
that's driving the lack of inventory

650
00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:52,070
that's driving up the cost of housing.

651
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:55,340
And so we have been
supporting bipartisan reforms,

652
00:25:55,340 --> 00:25:57,740
things like the FHA loan
limits and tax credits

653
00:25:57,740 --> 00:26:01,730
and others to unlock supply
and to remove barriers

654
00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:04,280
and expand those
affordable housing options.

655
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,190
And a great deal of that
happened at the state

656
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:10,760
and local level, which is
why we were initial sponsors

657
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,310
and continue to support the Housing Supply

658
00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:14,990
Accelerator playbook.

659
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:17,540
We've talked about it on
this podcast several times,

660
00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:20,210
but please look it up if
you haven't seen it already.

661
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:21,320
This is work that we've done

662
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,270
with the American Planning Association

663
00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:26,330
and the National League of
Cities to look at 40 policies

664
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:27,470
that could happen at the state

665
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:31,100
and local level to immediately
unleash that housing supply

666
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:32,900
and help more people
get into home ownership.

667
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:35,120
So that's another example
of where all three levels

668
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,910
of the government are
needed to make that work.

669
00:26:37,910 --> 00:26:41,270
- Alright, well wrapping up
our thoughts on regulation.

670
00:26:41,270 --> 00:26:43,350
Shannon, what's your final,

671
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:44,350
- Patrick?

672
00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:45,360
I couldn't agree with
what you said earlier.

673
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,750
More that this is the most
expensive financial transaction,

674
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:51,840
but it's also the most
heavily regulated financial

675
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,050
transaction that any
consumer is going to make.

676
00:26:55,050 --> 00:26:56,580
And it's important to have regulations

677
00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:00,240
that protect fairness,
transparency and consumer safety,

678
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,760
but also to balance
private property rights

679
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,530
and the community impact.

680
00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:06,930
So the work that we're doing
here, I could not be more proud

681
00:27:06,930 --> 00:27:09,750
of and the team has really focused on

682
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:11,280
where we can unleash inventory

683
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,970
and make housing more affordable
by tackling regulations

684
00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:17,250
where needed but supporting
them where it works.

685
00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:19,710
- Alright, well it's closing time,

686
00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:24,270
which means you've gotta give
us some behind the scenes

687
00:27:24,270 --> 00:27:27,210
or story, maybe August recess related.

688
00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:29,820
I don't know, tell us something exciting.

689
00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:31,950
- All right, well we don't,
we don't have this on video

690
00:27:31,950 --> 00:27:34,710
so you miss me rolling my
eyes when Patrick says August

691
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:38,700
recess because there is no
recess when it comes to advocacy.

692
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:42,240
So in August alone, we had
hundreds of meetings occur

693
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,290
around the country

694
00:27:43,290 --> 00:27:47,310
with our FPCs federal
political coordinators who meet

695
00:27:47,310 --> 00:27:49,560
with their member of
Congress in the district,

696
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,930
or maybe they do a state event,

697
00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:55,200
maybe we can post some fun
pictures from the Iowa Fair.

698
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,550
There was a lot of members there

699
00:27:56,550 --> 00:27:59,160
and our own president, Kevin
Sears made it out there.

700
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,470
I'm sure it wasn't because
of the food options,

701
00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:03,450
but we'll let you be
the judge on that one.

702
00:28:03,450 --> 00:28:06,180
But there is no rest
in August when it comes

703
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:07,230
to these efforts.

704
00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:09,150
And so those hundreds of meetings match up

705
00:28:09,150 --> 00:28:11,430
with the thousands that we
have had since the beginning

706
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:14,760
of the year, including the
legislative meetings in June.

707
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,640
And then the big talking
points here in August have been

708
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,940
to make sure that we fund
the federal government

709
00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:23,400
and we don't shut down the
flood insurance program at

710
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,420
the end of September.

711
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:27,300
And that folks support
the capital gains relief,

712
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:29,220
more homes on the market act

713
00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:31,920
that would double the
capital gains exemption

714
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,900
for folks trying to sell
their home right now

715
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:35,520
and provide great incentive

716
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,960
to bring more homes on the market.

717
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,590
And there are other measures
that have been introduced

718
00:28:40,590 --> 00:28:42,450
that would completely
eliminate capital gains.

719
00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:44,490
So it's going in the right direction.

720
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:45,810
- Well I'm glad you
mentioned those meetings

721
00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:47,790
'cause I actually was chatting
in the hallway with a,

722
00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:50,310
a member of our lobby
team who said, you know,

723
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:52,920
we had 5,000 meetings plus last year,

724
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,820
but this one member of the
lobbying team had 700 meetings in

725
00:28:56,820 --> 00:28:58,290
the first quarter of this year.

726
00:28:58,290 --> 00:28:59,850
Just him,

727
00:28:59,850 --> 00:29:01,710
because we were obviously in the middle

728
00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:02,880
of tax reform at the time.

729
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,060
So I think we're gonna top the
5,000 number this year that,

730
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:06,960
- So that's his excuse for

731
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,310
why I haven't seen him in the office.

732
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:09,420
That's fine, that's fine.

733
00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:11,580
But it's, it's also important to note

734
00:29:11,580 --> 00:29:15,120
for our next scoop we can
probably share more information

735
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,300
because one of the big asks
in the August recess meetings

736
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:20,430
was, please join the Real Estate caucus.

737
00:29:20,430 --> 00:29:24,360
And we started with four
members back in May of 2024.

738
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,250
So tune in next month to find out

739
00:29:26,250 --> 00:29:28,200
what the final number is looking like.

740
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,650
- And we also have a big event
we're hosting here at the

741
00:29:31,650 --> 00:29:32,700
DC office.

742
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:36,180
We're having all the chiefs
of staff on the hill. Yes.

743
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:38,700
Come up for a little soiree

744
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:41,020
- Chiefs of staff who also
do not get August recess.

745
00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:43,240
And I'm sure we're all back
in the district working.

746
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,220
So this is a bipartisan event.

747
00:29:45,220 --> 00:29:48,850
There are very few organizations
in DC that do these kinds

748
00:29:48,850 --> 00:29:51,670
of things, but we have a widely
attended bipartisan event

749
00:29:51,670 --> 00:29:55,240
where we're expecting a great
turnout of chiefs of staff

750
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,490
to welcome them back
with our beautiful views

751
00:29:57,490 --> 00:29:59,890
of Capitol Hill and talk about

752
00:29:59,890 --> 00:30:02,440
how we can move things
forward over the next month.

753
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,940
- Well I would push back on that Shannon,

754
00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:08,620
and say there are organizations
in this town that would love

755
00:30:08,620 --> 00:30:09,730
to do an event like that,

756
00:30:09,730 --> 00:30:11,680
but they do not have
Shannon McGann on that. Oh

757
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:12,910
- No, they don't have,

758
00:30:12,910 --> 00:30:14,860
they don't have Patrick
Newton. Oh, they don't have,

759
00:30:14,860 --> 00:30:16,810
- You're You're the one
that gets 'em all here

760
00:30:16,810 --> 00:30:18,280
and they love coming to our building.

761
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,330
- They like to come here to talk about

762
00:30:19,330 --> 00:30:20,830
regulations. Yeah. And that's what

763
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:21,830
- We're gonna be covering.

764
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:24,370
You make it so fun. Alright,
well thank you Shannon.

765
00:30:24,370 --> 00:30:26,380
Thank you everyone for
tuning into this episode,

766
00:30:26,380 --> 00:30:27,430
the advocacy scoop.

767
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:30,070
And we will see you back here hopefully

768
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:32,440
next month without a government shutdown

769
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,440
- Hopefully.

770
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,540
Thanks for listening everyone.

771
00:30:34,540 --> 00:30:36,040
- So that's the scoop. Thank you

772
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,050
to everyone listening to this podcast.

773
00:30:38,050 --> 00:30:39,280
Please be sure to subscribe

774
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,590
and share wherever you get your podcast.

775
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:44,560
And meet us right back here
for more advocacy scoop next

776
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,030
- Time.

777
00:30:46,030 --> 00:30:49,270
Realtors are members of
the National Association

778
00:30:49,270 --> 00:30:50,103
of Realtors.