Cheating, Patriarchy, and Dating Hot Takes | Golden Hour

00:00:08
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hours Golden Hour. Thanks so much for joining us today. As always, we are so excited to be back. And Susan, you know I'm going to ask, how are you doing today?

00:00:18
Speaker 2: I'm fabulous, I'm in a happy place and I'm really psyched about today. You know, it gives it gives me pleasure to read from our fans. They quote like everything we said on the podcast. There's people out there really paying attention, and I love it.

00:00:36
Speaker 1: Love yeah people. We never disagree, Susan. Sometimes sometimes you're wrong and you have to you have to understand. No, I do this today. We love it. It's what are we doing today? Again? What are you doing? What are we doing here today?

00:00:55
Speaker 2: We have a lot of fan questions today. So today not only are we answering more of the fan questions, but these ones are a bit different than the ones we usually get. Kathy, Okay, we're seeing more of the women being potentially.

00:01:12
Speaker 1: In the you know what, wait a second, let's see about that. I'm just gonna say, soon as you're gonna go after him, we are. You're gonna say they're not wrong.

00:01:23
Speaker 2: I could be, or I might say maybe we shouldn't do those things.

00:01:27
Speaker 1: I gotta say. I think you and I are both equal opportunity offenders, offenders, like we're both willing to stand up and say, oh, yeah, we're wrong. I mean, it hasn't happened yet, but if it did, I've admitted.

00:01:47
Speaker 2: It makes me sick to my stomach, and then I feel so badly. I want to forgive this right away because we didn't mean it.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: That is so funny you say that, because when I'm wrong, I am perfectly willing and able to say, have you ever been wrong? Many times?

00:02:06
Speaker 2: I've never witnessed it myself that you admit it.

00:02:10
Speaker 1: Oh that's not true. I've called you and apologized when I've done things wrong. I have Well, I can't really, I don't know. Okay, Well, I'm sorry you don't remember.

00:02:24
Speaker 2: Here we go.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're just gonna get started with the question the day, and I'm going to start us off and see if you can remember that answer. Okay, how do you think? Oh this is gonna be a tough one, Susan, But here we go. How do you think the patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating and relationships for straight people? All?

00:02:45
Speaker 2: Right, Cat, you go first, on this one because I'm a little lost.

00:02:48
Speaker 1: Okay. So, really, patriarchy generally means the male being the family head of culture, so men make the rules. Okay, So and sexism can be the same. It's men are better, men are smarter, Men earn more because they deserve to earn more. Women can't have jobs, can't be on television reporters because they get old, but men can pull up in there. You get it. So that's sexism. You're denied something because of your sex, or diminished because of your sex, or ruled determined that you are inferior in some way because a male is superior. So given all that, I think that it's culture. I think our culture. I mean, do we really have to need a history lesson here? But it goes back two monarchies too.

00:03:43
Speaker 2: It's always it's saying makes its way into dating.

00:03:47
Speaker 1: And so let's think about this.

00:03:51
Speaker 2: If you have two professionals, is that what you're saying.

00:03:53
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm saying the man is usually the one that asks the woman out. And it's changing a little bit, but men typically ask the woman out first. In it on a date, men tend to control or try to control how the date's going. To go how the relationship is going to be because they haven't dated me. Well, that's where we're saying. We should have said, how do you think the patriarchy and sex and makes it way into dating a relationship except for Susan Knowles, but that was not the question of the day. So but I do think, I do think it makes its way in because historically, you know, the monarchy, it's always been killing then but so well that but that's the point it brings it. It's come through our culture. It's been you know, ironed into the fabric of our society how.

00:04:45
Speaker 2: We were raised. Well, no, but daddy did this, and daddy does.

00:04:51
Speaker 1: And in the fifties ever, you know, Donna Reid with the apron around her or it's changing.

00:04:56
Speaker 2: It's a woman's place.

00:04:57
Speaker 1: It's a woman's place is in the home, you know, and that was the way. So I think though that people modern women today are saying, screw the patriarchy, forget it.

00:05:11
Speaker 2: You know a lot of times women make more money than some of the men.

00:05:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not just about that. It's that, you know, men determine the roles. So historically women have taken care of the children. You got a sick kid who's staying home the mommy. So, but that is changing, and in the glass ceiling, women have tried for years to break the glass ceiling. In terms of income, in terms of promotions, all those things. It has changed dramatically, I would say, in the last twenty or thirty years. But I think it still exists. I do. I think it's still.

00:05:50
Speaker 2: To answer the question, how do you think patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating and relationship hips? How does it make its way in from Because it's learned because of the history.

00:06:04
Speaker 1: That's what I think. I think it's just always been accepted, and I think I think, thank you for how many how many times have we heard Susan boys will be boys? You know a man, yes, but a man can cheat because you know the.

00:06:21
Speaker 2: Woman accept it more so than not in my sphere either. But if a woman did, it's taboo.

00:06:28
Speaker 1: That's patriarchy right there.

00:06:30
Speaker 2: Oh my god. How about like the woman that had sex in high school or whatever and your your refutation. But a guy, it's a not to on the belt.

00:06:39
Speaker 1: That's patriarchy. Yes, that's sexism. You got it right there. So I think it makes its way into dating and relationships because it's been so it's it's been ingrained in the fabric of our society. But I do think it's changing. My daughter, My daughter and her husband, they have one child right now and they both have very big jobs. They share the cooking, they share childcare when that child's sick. Well, that patriarchy is.

00:07:09
Speaker 2: Is that it wasn't you know what? I like you said, there's two professionals in the house.

00:07:17
Speaker 1: But that's the point. Patriarchy suggests that the male is not only dominant, but more important. His decisions way more. They have more weight because a male made the decision. I say, screwed the patriarchy. But maybe that's why I'm single.

00:07:34
Speaker 2: Maybe the sexism part. I think they still should take out some trush.

00:07:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I will say, Susan, you actually do, but and it's not wrong, But I would say you buy into male dominant and female dominant accepted roles that traditional I should say traditional roles. I when my husband was alive, I took out the trash, he took out. I loved to mow the grash. I like the grass too, So yes, my husband more than tools.

00:08:06
Speaker 2: And certain things that I just think men are better at than me.

00:08:10
Speaker 1: That's all because that's only because Susan that you want me. It's because you didn't learn it if someone told you. You learned it subconsciously from a very young age. That men have tools tool belts, and men are better with hammers and women are better with a sewing machine. It's not true.

00:08:29
Speaker 2: It's just I'm better with a hammer than I am with the sewing machine because I do try. I'm a frustrated seamstress and heart. But all right, let's get it's time to answer some.

00:08:39
Speaker 1: Of our fans. Where we go?

00:08:40
Speaker 2: All right, I'll go to start us off. You ready can.

00:08:43
Speaker 1: Knock yourself out? Got Hi?

00:08:51
Speaker 2: Please keep this anonymous. I have been with my husband for thirteen years, married for five. Through our dating years, we had our ups and downs of lying and cheating on both ends. I had a hard time committing due to our issues. During one of the times we were off, I met a guy at work and dated him for about eight months. We broke up because I was twenty three and he was going through a custody battle with his ex girlfriend and it all felt like too much to handle. To this day, I regret it. He was the best and I loved him. He treated me like a princess and would do anything for me. I have often thought about him through the years and wondered if I made a mistake. This is getting juicy. I always went back, partially because I did love him and because I loved his family.

00:09:54
Speaker 1: Wait, I have to interrupt, I have to interrupt. She went back with her husband, I know. I think that's where it is. She went back to her husband because.

00:10:03
Speaker 2: They were doing this when they were off in twenty sixteen, so they weren't together. Yeah, okay, and she started dating this guy, okay. And I always went back, partially because I did love him and because I loved his family. I lost my father young and his parents always treated me like their own. We got engaged shortly after my mother passed away. Since being married to my husband and having two kids, four and two years old, I always think about this guy and still have feelings for him deep down. We still work together. Boy, he is married and has kids too, and still feels the same way about me. He is not happy in his marriage, and the last two years I haven't been either. We worked from home during COVID till about two and a half years ago. Today we go into the office a few days a week and we talk more. My marriage currently has been on the rocks. He doesn't show me affection. He works so much. I feel like a single parent, doesn't do much around the house, doesn't engage in conversation, et cetera. I kept this all in for so long that I had a breaking point, and now my husband and I are in counseling. I have resentment towards him and just don't know what to do. My ex wants to get divorced. I know I would be happy with him without a doubt. I feel so guilty about all this and don't know what to do. Did I marry my husband for the wrong reasons? And he thoughts on what to do?

00:11:43
Speaker 1: Oh, Susan take it? What do you think? Whah, it's a lot, It's a lot. So I'm curious what.

00:11:51
Speaker 2: She used the word resentment, And to me, that's the biggest because you can't go back ever feel the same again. Once you resent somebody, you can forgive them and you can try and make the marriage work. But deep down inside I hear this woman. She resents him, and she knows she thinks that that other man. First of all, she says we both feel the same. So they're obviously chit chat. They're still holking up. I think. So you're both unhappy.

00:12:25
Speaker 1: They're hooking up. You mean they're having sex. You think they are?

00:12:28
Speaker 2: Oh that's see, there you go again without hooking up. I didn't. Yeah, I guess, I guess. But they're still into each other, was what I'm thinking. So what I'm hearing is they're both not happy in their marriages. They both have something that they want about each other. However, that was the good part, just dating him for the eight months, and you know, he rarely wasn't yours. Yet the same damned thing could happen if you both get divorced and your kids go through all the hell and you finally get together and you find out he does the same damn thing, or you know, you know.

00:13:11
Speaker 1: Okay, so did she before I jump in here? Did do you think when she says to marry her husband for the wrong reasons? Do you think she did?

00:13:20
Speaker 2: I think she liked the family and feeling a part of it since she lost hers. Maybe maybe, But it's okay, you did it, and you have two beautiful kids and you're both going to love them forever. But be true to yourself because you won't be happy and to stay miserable and unhappy. The other partner feels it too.

00:13:43
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm gonna take a little bit different tact, Shopper. At this point, it doesn't matter if she married her husband for the wrong reason. I have a philosophy, and I've told you this before, Susan. I think oftentimes when marriages quote unquote go on the rocks, both parties go into counseling because they which they are, because they see it as a required step to take before you and many of my friends did this, and they admit to me later, I knew I would. At the time, I thought I would work, but I really knew deep down I was going to counseling so that I could say post facto, I tried, we tried, I went to counseling. I think that's where this falls in. I think this falls into that category. I don't really care, Anonymous, if you married your husband for the wrong reasons. As Susan said, you have two children. I don't think I'm not reading that you have the impetus that you have the desire to really do the work to bring your marriage back from the rocks obviously if you can do that, and I disagree with you, Susan, I think you can let go of resentment. I think it takes a lot of work. I don't know whether she's willing to do it. I think it's also very difficult to work in the workplace with the guy you have the hots for you and you're chit chatting with him, so you are continuing the behavior that got you where you are. So if you really want my thought is when you say, what should you do? If you really want to make a go of the marriage, I would tell you cut it off with him, change jobs, delete him from your phone, change jobs, don't see him, don't talk to him, because there can never be three in a marriage, and right now you have three in a marriage. And it's immaterial to me whether the other guy wants to divorce his wife. Immaterial if you want your marriage, if you want to give it a go. But I don't send she does, But if you do, you got to take some hard steps here.

00:16:02
Speaker 2: I'm a little confused, and she says, I have resentment towards him and just don't know what to do. My ex wants to get divorced.

00:16:10
Speaker 1: The ex is the guy that she had the affair with. I believe. Oh yes, the guy that she had the affair with wants to divorce his wife. I think that's who she's says.

00:16:20
Speaker 2: I know I would be happy with.

00:16:22
Speaker 1: That with him, But she goes to your point, Susan, she doesn't know. With all due respect, Anonymous, I know you're in a tough spot, and my heart goes out to you. But Susan's right. All you know is the infatuation, the great sex, the fabulous late night phone calls. You don't know what it's going to be with the kids, your kids, the conversations when he starts doing nothing around the house, or whatever the issues are in your current marriage, Susan, and I can safely assure you you will have issues with this second guy. Is it going to be a fairy tale? No? You may love him and it could work out of you get together. But what should you do? It's up to you, sweetie. You either want to really work on your marriage that you have, in which case, don't just say I'm in counseling. You have to change jobs and delete this man from your life, because, as I just said, there are never three in a marriage.

00:17:23
Speaker 2: And also do yourself a favor. If this marriage is at work and you don't jump into another man's arms, you got to be alone. You got to figure out. I don't you know what, I don't go from the pot to the fire.

00:17:38
Speaker 1: Well, I think it can work. That's why I'm saying she might have This might be the love story of the ages with this other. My father and stepmother had the love story of the ages. When my father was divorced, he met my step mom. They were married within a year, and they had forty years of bliss.

00:17:56
Speaker 2: Then maybe she should go with it.

00:17:58
Speaker 1: Then only she knows. Only she knows.

00:18:01
Speaker 2: Anonymous, Thank you so much for sharing. Let us know what happens now. I really I understand the word resentment, and I know where you're coming from. I mean, and like Kathy said, she says it is possible. Maybe it is. I just never found that.

00:18:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I didn't have to live so And one other thing I want to say before we move on, Anonymous, whatever you decide, please be cognizant of your children and what they're going to go through. Because kids didn't ask to be born, and they didn't ask for this Michigan as So, whatever it is, you can.

00:18:39
Speaker 2: Work the same breath. Don't stay because.

00:18:42
Speaker 1: Of the fair Absolutely well, let us know, we want.

00:18:45
Speaker 2: To make you, we wish you the best.

00:18:47
Speaker 1: We really, let us know what happens, and we wish you all the best. Okay, so ready to move on to the next question. Here we go. The second question is from Renee. She's sixty five years old. Hi, ladies, I need to know if I was in the wrong for this post breakup move. I was dating a guy for eleven months. He was very generous to me while dating. I, however, always struggled through this relationship. It was like I wasn't feeling how I was supposed to during the relationship. Unfortunately, we ended up breaking up, and here's how it sort of played out. He had shoulder surgery on my birthday and I went over to take care of him. While I was there, he ended up giving me a check for my birthday gift. I won't get into the details, but one thing led to another and we ended up breaking up before I even got home that night. Once I did get home, he messaged me asking for things he gave me back. I sent them, thinking he was a bit out of line, but wanted to just be done with it. I then decided to deposit the check that he had given me for my birthday. He came on glued asking for money back, calling me a gold digger and many other horrible names. I did not return the money. Needless to say, I have no contact with him anymore. His true colors came out. Oh, I forgot to mention he had lied about his age from the get go, saying he was sixty four when he was really sixty nine. I'm sixty five. What are your thoughts? Was I in the wrong, Susan. I'm gonna let you handle this first. I just have to say nothing about his age matters. Who cares sixty five sixty nine? So let's just leave that out of the mix, because to me, that doesn't work.

00:20:35
Speaker 2: First of all, I'm wondering what she wasn't feeling like in the beginning when she said something was missing. Obviously, he decides to get surgery on her birthday, and she gives up that day to celebrate herself and goes and takes care of him.

00:20:53
Speaker 1: That's what you do for the person or in a relationships with.

00:20:56
Speaker 2: And that's great. But he gives her a check, so he had no thought what can I give her for the birthday? You write a check last minute because you're not prepared, You had nothing, and now he wants it back.

00:21:09
Speaker 1: Go screw yourself, now, Susan, what do you really think?

00:21:13
Speaker 2: I think he's shit, That's what I think.

00:21:15
Speaker 1: And he whoa, whoa. This is hitting close to home.

00:21:19
Speaker 2: And I hope that's surgery hurt.

00:21:22
Speaker 1: So so here's what I think. Here's what I think, Susan. You and I both know people who have been given gifts early on in a relationship who returned the gift, and you know, we both had different thoughts on it. I thought you did the right thing. Whatever. Here, this is a different situation, Renee. You were with this man for eleven months. Whatever you were feeling or not feeling, if you were giving it a go, you weren't giving it a go. I don't know. You didn't know how you were supposed to be feeling. All that said, you stayed with him for eleven months. At least that's the way this reads. So you were with him eleven months. You did go over on your birthday. We don't know, Susan. Maybe he was an excruciating pain, maybe he'd fallen.

00:22:09
Speaker 2: Was in the house, face coming the same day before surgery, you plan that.

00:22:13
Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm just saying I'm trying to give the guy some grace here. Maybe it was an emergency surgery. I don't know. Here's where I will go. Maybe you're right, maybe he gave no thought. Okay, not great, but I believe it or not. I would absolutely have kept the birthday check and called it nursing ours fees. But secondly, I would not have sent back the things he had given me. When you give someone gifts and you've been dating, and I will tell you, Susan, you don't know another Kathy story that you don't know. You know the guy who shall remain nameless, that I dated for ten months, the guy that wanted me to move in with him. Yes, he gave me an incredibly expense SIV tennis racket because he knew I had played tennis. He wanted to start playing again. He gave me this really, really nice racket. And when we broke up, he asked me for the racket back, and you know what I said? He did? And do you know what? What do you think? I said?

00:23:17
Speaker 2: Why? Why it's a gift. Now, why would I give it back to you? You gave it to me as a gift.

00:23:23
Speaker 1: And oh my god, I love you. It's exactly what I said to him. I said, I'm sorry, so and.

00:23:28
Speaker 2: So, you give it somebody else.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, I gave it to my daughter. She plays with it because I because he and I were going to take back up tennis. But that's not the point. The point was he gave me a gift, and I gave him some gifts. And when I broke up with him, which is what happened, I didn't say, by the way, I want back these pillows, I gave you these.

00:23:52
Speaker 2: Vertic I would say. Women, when they're asked that they're so angry or upset they don't want things that remind them of him.

00:24:01
Speaker 1: Then, but don't give it back to him. Listen, I have a friend who I have a friend who dated and again no names mentioned because you know this person. She lives here. She dated a very wealthy guy. He bought her Louis Vaton handbags, Chloe handbags, you know, very expensive designer stuff, jewelry from Tiffany's, really nice things. She sold it. She sold every bit of it and pocketed the money. She didn't give it back to him. So I think, Renee, I don't care about.

00:24:33
Speaker 2: Give me it back. Obviously he's hurting, he's angry. Yeah, you're showing your true colors, just like Renee said.

00:24:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Renee, here's Susan's and my advice. Move on and go find yourself a nice guy. I don't care what age he is. Would you agree, Susan.

00:24:51
Speaker 2: Yes, most definitely, most definitely.

00:24:53
Speaker 1: I don't know. Wait do you think?

00:24:55
Speaker 2: But I'm upset about the birthday? Okay, dare you write me at shack?

00:25:00
Speaker 1: But what do you But here's the thing. We started this whole podcast, this episode talking about women potentially in the wrong. She's not in the wrong.

00:25:09
Speaker 2: I don't think she is either.

00:25:12
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And I think.

00:25:14
Speaker 2: Although she said they broke up before she even got to the house.

00:25:20
Speaker 1: No, no, no, while they were there, they broke up at the house. One thing led to another. Watch she was at the house taking care of him, and they broke up, So he'd obviously.

00:25:31
Speaker 2: Think maybe she perhaps said you're writing me a chet for my birthday. Do you think that was part of it? I mean, we're guessing.

00:25:38
Speaker 1: I mean I would say to you, doesn't matter, I mean, really doesn't matter. That whatever it was, she didn't.

00:25:49
Speaker 2: Was it over the birthday Jack?

00:25:50
Speaker 1: Maybe, But I'm saying, does it matter how or why they broke up. I'm saying I don't think that Renee is in the wrong here at all, And in fact, I would kept all the things, So I think she's in the wrong for not keeping them, for sending them.

00:26:05
Speaker 2: Back in like I Like I said, you don't want any parts of him, so give it, so give.

00:26:11
Speaker 1: It donated, don't give it to him, And then the other the other, the other anonymous question. You know, we've talked about that. I don't think necessarily, Uh, it's I don't think it's our job to judge right and wrong as much as it is to have people reflect and see what is the best way in or out of the situation they're.

00:26:34
Speaker 2: In and how to handle it.

00:26:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what I think.

00:26:37
Speaker 2: And keeping your grace, you know, you just you respect yourself. You don't want to act out in a fit of whatever that moment is. Always just breathe always and think.

00:26:52
Speaker 1: Always, Always forget the patriarchy. Always go out as a lady that has nothing to do with male domination. Always, whatever you do, do it with grace.

00:27:04
Speaker 2: Yes, right, God, Yes, I mean I've learned the hard way. What do you mean, I've been angry and I raise my voice, you know, I'm Italian. I scream and holler, and I start thinking about all the things that hurt me, and they all came out at once. I don't know if maybe it was a treat that my dad would hold things in for like six months, and when we were in trouble, you'd bring up everything you did for the last six months.

00:27:33
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm gonna cut that's where you go to your room and hide yourself under the bed. But I will say, I will say I think there's one back to our questions from today, m H. I think there is one common denominator here, and that is the emotional What do I want to say, the the emotional value, the emotional quotient of a relationship, and the physical. In our first question, the emotional turmoil she's going through, she clearly has cheated, or I shouldn't say clearly, but it suggests that she is when they were broken up, when she was separated, whatever, And I think that is a whole different kind of relationship.

00:28:23
Speaker 2: Do you still think it's cheating if it was an emotional reason.

00:28:26
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.

00:28:27
Speaker 2: Some people argue that point.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I don't think it is the same as physical cheating, but I think the results often can be the same. I think you leave, many people leave a relationship, they get into an emotional relationship with someone, or they even if it's imagined, you know, and.

00:28:48
Speaker 2: So so.

00:28:50
Speaker 1: They sort of maybe inadvertently maybe consciously depart from the from the other relationship they're in. So I think the I think the fall can be the same.

00:29:01
Speaker 2: I think I know so many people that I've read or stories that the man gets caught cheating, but he never slept with them, but it was more of an emotional thing and they kissed once. The wife still thinks that's cheating, but he was more relying on her and talking with her and.

00:29:23
Speaker 1: Imo, but that's but again it suggests that he that he and his partner.

00:29:31
Speaker 2: Are missing something, are.

00:29:32
Speaker 1: Missing something in there. And that's what I think Renee was getting at with him, that there was a lot missing and she couldn't quite feel it. In the first one U in the anonymous question, I think there's more. I think there's physical and emotional something not being met in her marriage, and I think it's pretty far down the road. And as I said earlier in this episode, it is going to take a lot of work too if she he wants to, so you know what, Emai.

00:30:02
Speaker 2: Doesn't want to either, So.

00:30:04
Speaker 1: So you know what I say that, don't you one?

00:30:07
Speaker 2: I hope that the other guy, if he's not happy either, that those two can get together and it's a fairy tale love. Oh we all hope that now, all right, even fairy dad.

00:30:18
Speaker 1: Oh Susan the fairytale queen. All right, move along, move along? What's next here?

00:30:23
Speaker 2: All right? Before we end this episode, Kathy, we're gonna switch off given you guys some of our dating and relationship hot takes. Boy, we'll give you our hot take and discuss it, and you're.

00:30:39
Speaker 1: Going to start it all. Oh no, you are a good big girl, and gop for it. What's your first one?

00:30:46
Speaker 2: Uh, the very first date? If you know you don't want to see him again? I don't expect him to pay for the bill. I would always.

00:31:03
Speaker 1: I actually agree with you totally, one hundred percent. See, you know.

00:31:10
Speaker 2: You're not going to and the man that demands absolutely no way. I admire that.

00:31:15
Speaker 1: Okay, what about that? All right, I agree. All right, moving on, I got I've got one for you. You agree or disagree. My hot take is women should feel free to text back right away if they've had a great date or you've met some.

00:31:30
Speaker 2: And don't be afraid to be the first one.

00:31:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's hard for me, but I think you should feel free to do it.

00:31:38
Speaker 2: I just have to know when to not, you know, because I'm like, oh, yeah, it's my new friend. There's a little blowing them up, and it's like, oh no, forget If it's not answering right away, there's a reason.

00:31:49
Speaker 1: I love it. All right, I got another one I want. I want your opinion on this one.

00:31:54
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:31:56
Speaker 1: Men should always pick up the date at or wherever. In other words, it shouldn't be hey, I'd like to go out with you, meet me at Joe's Bar at six pm. I think a man should always offer to pick a woman up.

00:32:10
Speaker 2: What do you think I do as well? Except for certain circumstances. If you're just meeting, I prefer to drive myself so I know I could leave.

00:32:19
Speaker 1: Do you mean a first meeting?

00:32:21
Speaker 2: Yes?

00:32:21
Speaker 1: No, No, No, I agree with that. No, I'm saying, in general, how do you.

00:32:26
Speaker 2: Think perhaps they work in the city and you know it'll be eight o'clock by the time you could get out. There's moments that will say you want to just meet me there, baby?

00:32:36
Speaker 1: Yes, But as a rule, as a rule.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: A rule, a man should pick you up for you.

00:32:40
Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, you got another one?

00:32:42
Speaker 2: When dating?

00:32:42
Speaker 1: Yes, okay.

00:32:44
Speaker 2: I think that a man should respect the people waiting on them.

00:32:51
Speaker 1: Do you mean servers at a restaurant, yes, ma'am. Oh, honey, money, whether man and women. Yes, well, oh that goes.

00:32:59
Speaker 2: A lot people that will allow. That's a red flag all the way. Also, I think a man should open the car door always, always, and if you're a perfect lady and you like him a lot, you reach over after he shuts your door and try to get his open for it. Can I just tie for Fred and he noticed?

00:33:20
Speaker 1: Can I tell you that Ned my friend who lives out in California, who you're going to meet, Actually he always opens the and we're not dating, but he always opens the car door for me. I'm thinking that man was trained. Well, it means a lot to me, even though we're not da Okay, I got one more, I got one more.

00:33:40
Speaker 2: I got one to go ahead?

00:33:41
Speaker 1: All right, women, I don't think this, but I have heard it said by men and women. How do you feel about man? Sorry, women should plan most of the dates.

00:33:55
Speaker 2: No, but we have to. If you want to do stuff that you want to do, good at it.

00:34:00
Speaker 1: Some men, I disagree that is a cop out. Men can plan great dates if they want to. They I think men just think women will do it so they don't spend the time. To me, a man that will plan an exciting date, and I don't mean yeah not you know, not a jet to Paris for dinner. I don't mean that. I mean just a guides it doesn't have to be expensive. Oh my god, that is the man that I want right there, who will play with you that.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: I also think a man should always walk on the street side and keeping women on the always to protect. Forget about that always always.

00:34:41
Speaker 1: You know one thing you and I are both saying, even though we're at a certain age, being a gentleman and being courteous is a turn on for women and it never goes out of style ever.

00:34:54
Speaker 2: So yes, men are hearing that.

00:34:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean really, there's some things that just never ever quo. And that's I'm not thinking. If I have any other ones I had them mentioned always open doors, but you had that one as well. Uh oh one more. I know we got to go, but just real quickly. Okay, women, I don't agree with this, but but I've heard and people have criticized me for it. Women in the dating world should not show their strength both physically financially. They should be demure and diminutive in stature. They should make themselves be small, whether it's financially, physically, sexually, all of them. What do you think?

00:35:39
Speaker 2: I am not that girl. I don't think I could follow those rules. I haven't read that actually, like dating advice, and you're dating like I don't think the first night you gotta show power. But yeah, I am who I am. I can't pretend to be anybody else. So I need to be who I am. And if you like me, that's great. And if you don't, I understand.

00:36:00
Speaker 1: I find that a lot of men who I'm friends with say, you know, Kathy, you're just so strong. But I guess what you know what said to me the other day close c k He said, Kathy, if men would just take the time to get to know you, they would see what a terrific woman you are and I thought it was a lovely compliment. But I thought, yeah, yeah, but they don't take the time. So you know, I guess, I guess I need to be diminutive and demure the two d's. I don't know. I can tell you how. I could tell you how we're a short spurt and put tape over my mouth.

00:36:32
Speaker 2: I have a lot of.

00:36:34
Speaker 1: I'm that happy note we're done here, that is going to do it. This was fun for today's episode. This was a fun episode, and thank you to everyone for for listening. We had so much fun. We hopeully you enjoyed hearing our hot takes and our advice to.

00:36:50
Speaker 2: Our those questions coming, because without them we'd.

00:36:55
Speaker 1: Have to make stuff up and we could do that too, and you know.

00:36:59
Speaker 2: How to do it. Thank you so much for everybody listening. Just go to Bachelor nation dot com slash Golden Hour and submit those questions.

00:37:09
Speaker 1: That can't ware for I hope we get some great comments on this episode. I can and some more questions. Okay, listen to bout our Happy Hours Golden Hour on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Until next time, have a great week.